An interesting thought too is that since Frieza spent his whole life essentially doing nothing significant with his power and even sealing it away, its quite possible he was far stronger as a child than he was on Namek, after all, doing nothing with one's power causes it to degrade and fade away. Gohan is a prime example of this happening, he gained great power, then lost it because he didn't bother to maintain it, let alone improve on it. Thus Frieza living his youth with his power sealed away had to have had an negative effect.
Good point, but I think since he sealed it up, it didn’t decrease, kinda like a bottle of water with its lid on tight, it’s there and not going anywhere, or it just he constantly uses he power to blow up worlds. Just a theory
@@skylerwarren7300 True, in fact it could be a mix of both, maybe his power being put in stasis could have degraded more slowly or something. Kind of like the bottle and lid idea, but kind of like milk instead of water, milk goes off much faster if not sealed and kept in a cool place, but even when stored correctly it still can only last so long before going off. So maybe he was only a modest amount stronger at birth (Perhaps future Android 17 and 18 level, but nowhere near Perfect Cell level) I kind of reached the conclusion I did partly on his claim his power was too much for him to control, hence why he sealed it away, yet on Namek he was handling his final forms power quite well, only at 100% did he suffer energy fatigue. So maybe his power did degrade to where he was able to handle it, but the overall power loss wasn't THAT much.
When fighters engaged each other in the TOP, the stronger individual was forced to suppress their output to their opponents level in order to not kill them and thus be DQ'd, that's how Roshi was able to fight Jiren despite lacking the Ki. Both of them knew that if that beast actually swung with his true might then he'd immediately kill Roshi and DQ himself. TOP feats are sketchy due to this fact when characters fight in it. It was more about their endurance and skills than total Ki output.
Thoroughly, there were many examples where strategy and tactics were the name of the game during the ToP. Good point. Power levels were a little less important in determining how great a fighter was in that venue.
Characters in Super at this point are capable of controlling their Ki to such a degree that they can not only suppress their power to match someone, but also to reach the perfect amount of force necessary to block, dodge or non-lethally one-shot their opponent. So, while they are certainly suppressing themselves insofar as they aren’t trying to kill their opponents, especially if they’re weaker, they wouldn’t need to struggle anywhere near as much as we’re shown with various fights due to the fact that it goes both ways and they can apply the same principal to dodging, tanking and easily one-shorting their opponent without killing them. This has been a thing since DB, seen numerous times throughout the story. But in DB and Z we only really see a supremely stronger character struggle with someone if the power gap is less than what it should be in Super(with occasional other factors like drained stamina, injury. Etc). The example with Jiren and Roshi doesn’t abide by in-universe logic however, even going by Dragon Ball Super or even within the very same arc where this happens. After all one of the biggest factors working against it is senses. Because a character doesn’t need to power up to use their senses to their maximum capabilities. Senses are typically passive, so Goku can sense just as well in base as he can at 100% in his strongest form. The same can be said for Jiren. So, no matter how strangely Roshi moved or how suppressed Jiren was, what we witnessed is impossible, because Roshi would be moving so slow to Jiren that he might as well be stopped in time. Which leads into the biggest contradictory moment here. That Jiren was stopped in time while fighting Hit(or at least massively slowed by time lag) and yet was still able to instantly ramp up his power when Hit was in mid strike to take him out and eliminate him. The fact that Jiren can do that makes the moment with Roshi contradictory and nonsensical, because there’s no way Jiren an instantly ramp up his power while nearly frozen in time and hit someone and yet can’t do the same with Roshi. The only way it makes sense in-universe is if Roshi falls within the margin of error present in Jiren’s senses, which in all previous series is based on speed of strength stats, rather than irregular movements or “UI like movements”. And even then we see Jiren in the manga match MUI Goku and defeat him, so again the Roshi scene doesn’t work in any sense of the word. But Toyotaro has proven to lack understanding of the in-universe mechanics and contradict elements he just introduced at a moment’s notice. Just read the Moro arc for proof of that.
@@LSMMIKE Senses being passive doesnt work, Goku at 3 million agaisnt 4th form Freeza couldnt keep up despite going Kaioken x10( a technique already used to heighten your senses ) and yet when he went Super Saiyan he forced Freeza to increase to 100% , so while i still think Roshi fighting Jiren makes no sense i have to say your theory of senses really doesnt hold up either
@@theconmantube3449 all that power was always with in him it and he knew it that’s why he said he will train and bring it out . If he trains now he wouldn’t get much stronger he doesn’t get stronger from battle like the sayians
@@roshanranjan8701 Right? I thought Potential Unlock was as if he had never stopped training in his life. I'm pretty sure when Piccolo was refreshing him before the ToP, he said that he was 'sharpening Gohan's instincts', rather than making him stronger. In the manga ToP, Gohan wears Piccolo's gi and _solos _*_Kefla._*
@@theconmantube3449potential is the biggest plot device in db. Instead of devising creative ways to catch characters up, they just use the hidden potential
@@UnexpectedWonder Goku and vegeta end their fights a bit early, do u think they can fight for a straight day or more? I think they would just that.....I don't think they have limitless stamina, yet
According to the Broly novel, Golden Frieza's punches were actually "initially" strong enough to stagger Broly to the point Broly would instinctually dodge them despite being in rage mode. Though of course Broly's power just kept rising while Frieza very slowly got worn down, so what modest effectiveness he at first had in the fight diminished until he was little more than Broly's punching bag. Honestly though its pretty impressive Frieza did as well as he did.
A Frieza who trained from birth/childhood would be interesting, especially since it'd also alter his personality. It'd be like a more disciplined, level headed Frieza, but still super egotistical and cruel, albeit that cruelty would be less impulsive and more calculated, which would make him even more evil.
Freeza's rate of growth is soo absurd its downright hilarious. Imagine how effed everyone would be if Freeza managed to sneak into the Room of Spirit and Time to train. If he managed to go from arguably star level in Namek to universal/multiuniversal in Ressurection F (in just Final Form) by just using a soldier as a punching bag, years of training in harsher conditions would make him easily stronger than Jiren and arguably even full powered Broly and SSGSS Gogeta (at the time of the movie). Literally its arguable that Namek Freeza could've beaten Super Saiyan Goku by just doing pushups and eating his flintstone gummies before bed every day growing up.
Maybe we could bring back power levels with one level equaling a set power level, like Kili in dragon ball. 1 kili is a power level of 50,000 so it’d be easy to bring power levels back
Hey, just recently found the channel. Just want to say really enjoy all your videos. Thoughtful discussions about one of my favourite shows. Thanks for all you do. Keep up the great work
If it were just power alone that were a factor, Frieza could easily keep pace with Goku and Vegeta, but its not just power alone anymore since both Goku and Vegeta have loads of hax to go with their power, UI, UE, Spirit fission and so on. At this point it don't matter how strong Frieza gets or what new forms he unlocks, hell he could surpass both of them and still fall short because he doesn't have any special godly abilities or hax, there's only so much training alone can acomplish . . . Although, if Frieza found himself a knowledgeable teacher to show him the path to abilities some would consider, unnatur-uh- I mean haxy . . . Yessss, that could be interesting, especially if combined with more character development.
@laughingstockmedia Mike, a commentor made a good point that might be worth considering for a future video: The strategy and tactic necessary in the ToP for these über powered folk to not kill people like Roshi and the other human-level fighters. The amount of restraint required to not get DQ'd would have thrown powerscaling out the window altogether for a bulk of the ToP, I think. What are your thoughts?
Honestly I think they should've had him train for 1 and a half or 2 years instead of 4 months, that way it would've been more believable, still speedy prodigy level progress, but not absurdly fast. But plot in Dragon Ball kind of just does stuff for the hell of it.
Frieza was going to be the next god of destruction for sure! And still could be! Maybe vegeta becoming a god of destruction was a curve ball, if frieza trained with beerus he would become insanely strong
@@littlevessel5351 Broly wasn't canon at first either, but look what happened: the Dragon Ball Super Broly movie made Broly canon. Maybe Cooler will be made canon in the Dragon Ball Super Superhero movie or the Dragon Ball Super manga
@@joshualowe959 true. But I don’t think cooler even though he trained more than frieza would even be a good match for him if cooler would go full/true golden.
Atleast 10x in the anime cuz goku ssb KAIOKEN x10 was competing with full power hit in the U6 vs U7 tourney and after the goku black arc he was just using ssjb against hit and they were even
@@DiamondBlade11 true. If they still wanna use the prodigy excuse everyone is getting now for asspull power ups,then four years is at least 55% believable. 3 years is around 40% believable. Four months is unbelievable.
@@janusgreenway5137 i mean they kinda said that the whole ginyu force + Frieza were all *mutants* early on, but when it comes to our main cast of characters, none of them are mutants
It's gotten to the point where I just focus on who's winning and who's losing lol They always make no sense when it comes to who's supposed to be so powerful and what not. The fights just rock. Glad to see they're giving Frieza some love again.
Hey Laughingstock Media could you do a video about how many times vegeta got kill in Dragon Ball? so yeah that i want to see next time on your channel okay this Shades Frames saying to you all see you later over and out.
Frieza in the tournament of power I felt was done way better than it should have been done... Accidentally!!. Everything he did fit him to the T and made it great to see him acting outside of being the main antagonist. Didn't like how frieza just got his life restored like it's nothing. It could have still happened but at least throw in some drama and second guessing before just to handing it to him and not after like goku can just simply beat him no contest. I wish the whole TOP was done the same way.
@@deckzone3000 Yeah.. at this point it would be best for them to publicly just state GT is not part of the main continuity.. So many different inconsistencies are starting to pile up, it's ridiculous.
I wanna know more about Frieza's race or species. I know he has a dad. Sometimes a brother, and in the other universe there is Frost. It would be interesting if there were others like them. Maybe even a good one.
Freeza was always a cool character. I hate him but I adore his abilities and insane power, making him one of the most badass villains in history. Now Mike could you please do a what if nobody has ever done? I really want to see how it goes into detail. What if Vegeta never became a super Saiyan? Do you believe he could have been helpful even without it?
I thought he didnt get stronger it's just that he was able to keep all of his strength in his golden form after coming back from hell. Also it kind of seems like his golden frieza 2.0 is like an equivalent of the mastered super saiyan from the cell saga
I think Gohan had the biggest boost in Dragonball Super; so far lol. Couple of days training with Piccolo and he is fighting Blue Goku/Kk post everything prior ToP lol. Coolstorybro!
Hinting at beerus’ strength relative to ssjg in the BoG arc was what broke the scaling. They shouldn’t have said/imply (based on the version) that goku was 70% (movie) or in the ballpark based on the show.
Skill weak and ki weak are 2 different things...being rusty in skill despite power doesn't mean the power isn't there...you don't aren't as comfortable with accessing it as you once were.
@@SuperKamiGuruu think about this. Gohan fighting cell was currently the most powerful because of ki. He wasn't a better fighter he was just stronger and faster. Plus he was enraged....the same Gohan that beat cell was almost getting killed because he wasn't angry enough...like a hulk banner situation.
Yo man, how about doing a comparison of Seiya to Goku? Seiya gets some absolutely nasty amps, though I think that with mastered MUI, Goku may be able to put up a good fight to Seiya
I’m pretty sure Broly takes the cake for getting the biggest power jump. We really don’t know what he started as, but he got go post ToP SSB power in a day...
Frieza likely increased his power during the tournament as well, his growth is far more insane than even the saiyans have ever demonstrated. I don't think Frieza being the 2nd strongest u7 fighter at the time is an overstatement.
man they fucked it up w ssg, and ssb. it should have been like this. in battle vs beerus goku got ssg and lost, then he shouldnt be able to obtain that ssg form again without the ritual (until he trains) then in the next sagas he gets ssb a "nerfed" form of ssg (god ki + ssj form). then it should be ssb
At this point its one of the more mild examples of power jumps. Now we've got characters who just randomly get stronger the longer the fight goes on, like Goku Black, Hit, Broly and even Vegeta's new form. By comparison, Frieza's power jump seems rather unimpressive. Still, even original DBZ had some pretty insane power leaps, though nowhere near as bad as DBS.
@@dreadrath Frieza had the biggest power jump in the whole franchise thanks to his mutant properties, struggling to fight SSJ to stronger than SSJB, so i wouldn't refer to it as unimpressive
Honestly I dont like the tornament of power they should have been able to kill that way they could go all out because those beam UI goku used should have killed Jiren so that means he was holding back and that sucks
Nice vid, however I have to say… Goku and Vegeta said themselves that their bodies were close to reaching their limits before entering the Time Chamber for 3 years. Coupled with the fact that it’s been confirmed they lost their ability to use Zenkai boosts since the Frieza saga, it’s likely they didn’t grow significantly stronger here. However, during those 3 years Goku did discover Blue Kaioken in the anime Goku defeating Hit without Kaioken doesn’t necessarily mean he grew x10 stronger. Hit relies on his techniques to battle. In terms of raw power he’s weaker than SSJ Blue (we saw this in the anime U6 tournament) Frieza didn’t necessarily increase his raw strength either, his mental training allowed him to finally control Golden Frieza’s energy to the point where his power level wouldn’t decrease over time. Basically Full Power Golden Frieza Goku did grow in strength between the Goku Black arc and the ToP tho, considering he was even with Vegeta, who had trained to defeat Goku Black. He also caught up to Golden Frieza, who could kill him back in RoF. But honestly, I don’t believe it’s far beyond 2x
That was never confirmed. How else did Goku Black himself get Zenkai boosts despite using the body of a Goku from a time where his Zenkai boosts would've stopped?? 🤨 Not to mention the zenkai boosts both Goku and Vegeta got from the TOP
@@acecashman1237 it’s been confirmed multiple times already. Daizenshuu 7 states Zenkais have become negligible / non-existent after the Namek saga, forcing the Saiyans to rely on transformations and fusions to power up. After Gohan healed from fighting Buutenks, it’s noted that his power level didn’t increase at all. In the DBS anime, Vegeta said his and Goku’s bodies were nearing their limits and wouldn’t grow much stronger from 3 years worth of training. In the DBS manga it’s outright stated that Goku and Vegeta don’t have to ability to use Zenkais anymore, unlike Goku Black for some reason
.... I just had a flash of what the show would have been entirely from Freiza's perspective. The very Gods of the Universe had accepted him being Emperor. Their abscence signifying a divine right to rule. The strongest natural being in existence. Toppled by a monkey.... I think i understand him now..
13:30 Hmm so that means Toppo is potentially stronger than god of destruction Sidra despite only being a god of destruction candidate which would then make blue evolution Vegeta even stronger than that
If the clash between super saiyan god goku and berus was enough to almost destroy the universe then shouldn't the fight between a stronger goku and even stronger frieza have done the same thing. Shouldn't everytime goku fights someone in blue form send ripples across the universe?
I don't know how many other people know this I don't know if it's common knowledge not about Frieza but he's actually a mutant the rest of his race I don't know if anyone noticed but if you look back the rest of his race is mostly purple like their skin is mostly purple Frieza ends up being an albino text so he's actually a mutant so that actually might explain also why he has such a more power increase than King cold or cooler anyone else of that race
That's true, but he shouldn't have come back it's was only for fanservice and nostalgia,it was just a bug fight scene n he got killed again and again, it was. Bullshit.
Dragon Ball Super Broly came out 3 years ago dude... You should've included Frieza's survival feat against Super Saiyan Broly. Frieza was able to battle against/survive against Broly for an ENTIRE HOUR until Gogeta showed up. Brief reminder, Goku & Vegeta's fights lasted MINUTES before they Retreated....
Frieza was always shown to have a higher degree of durability. The dude's body went through an insane amount of damage in the Namek arc and still he servived whereas most other characters would've immediately died of their injuries.
I was just thinking about this. Golden frieza was stronger than ssj blue in Resurrection F. Then before the TOP arc Frieza is on par with ssj blue Goku (a Goku that had the universe 6 tournament and the goku black arc). So Frieza didn't actually get that strong
I mean if he really was going full power against frieza im the single punch hit. Wouldn't he have gone kaioken blue? The only one who he went kaioken blue was gohan
I'm not to disagree on one point in here I don't think Mecca freezer was stronger than original I think he actually took a dip in power like not that big of a dip but still like he doesn't have his own natural demon type body and stuff and sure the mecca Frieza allowed him to gain access to that power quicker but I don't think he was more powerful than he was on planet namek
16:11 Actually Frieza would be 50x stronger than he was in resurrection of F given Goku became 10x stronger 1 year after the universe 6 tournament which was 1 year before the top so and Goku had trained 3 years with Vegeta in the hyperbolic time chamber in preparation for the universe 6 tournament therefore of we asume a 10 times boost reletive to the Goku after the universe 6 tournament he would have gotten well over 50x stronger than he was during the events of ROF but given that he grew 10x stronger reletive to his strength during the events of ROF he is actually exponentially higher than 50x in growth so... And this is considering golden Frieza~super saiyan Blue Goku in power so at the absolute lowest he is 50x stronger but even that isn't actuate given we don't know how much stronger he had gotten in the hyperbolic time chamber so if we asume a 10 times increase each year over the last, he would have gotten 100000x stronger which in itself doesn't make sense but hey when has power scaling in dragon ball ever made sense after the cell saga?
I mean why ya comparing base goku vs final form freeza to try and hype up freeza lmao…goku was in base keeping up with freeza so I’m not really impressed
I think you guys are confusing mental fortitude with physical ability freeze is not stronger than Goku it's just that Frieza has expert telekinetic ability his level of spirit control is unfounded that's how all of his people are so it's more like he's as strong as Goku but he has better Spirit fishing techniques than Goku does that's why he could separate the hakai from his body
@@da_hitmanhart6650 Goku unlocked the power the gods of destruction cannot master still, jiren was able to keep up with goku until goku got a rage boost
@@Wtf._.0rlando and you bring this for what reason? Your post was irrelevant. Anybody can master ui with training. If master Rossi or krillin mastered the technique it would not automatically make them stronger than a GoD. Jiren keeping up with goku’s mui also means nothing in regards to being stronger than all the GoD’s. You’re reaching now.
You do realize that Goku getting shot by Sorbet is not nonsensical at all, right? Dragon Ball characters are powerful beings but they are still (most of them) made up of flesh and bone. They can tank these giant plasma beams in one scene but get torn to shreds in another, for example this happens to Cell and Piccolo. Goku got shot because he let his guard down, that was the whole point of the scene and part of the set up for him learning ultra instinct. You can even see this in real life where there's monks who can take a drill to their stomach and it won't go through them. It's the same with DB characters. I'm pretty sure they can even be killed by a bullet if they were unconscious.
Frieza is durable enough to get his tails whipped by Broly for a solid hour.
Not solid.
Because, it is obvies, Goku and vegeta cant battle vs broly even half an hour, how freezer endure for 5 hours?
Whiss is in the show
and its not even his best durability feat, man was still able to use telekinesis when he was in 1000 pieces
I'm fairly certain it was more of a joke than a durability feat.
@@tannonlovedhisax5022 exactly. #outlier or #whiss
An interesting thought too is that since Frieza spent his whole life essentially doing nothing significant with his power and even sealing it away, its quite possible he was far stronger as a child than he was on Namek, after all, doing nothing with one's power causes it to degrade and fade away. Gohan is a prime example of this happening, he gained great power, then lost it because he didn't bother to maintain it, let alone improve on it. Thus Frieza living his youth with his power sealed away had to have had an negative effect.
Good point. If we are to consider any sense of continuity for these scales, then I think this is very valid.
Good point, but I think since he sealed it up, it didn’t decrease, kinda like a bottle of water with its lid on tight, it’s there and not going anywhere,
or it just he constantly uses he power to blow up worlds. Just a theory
@@skylerwarren7300 True, in fact it could be a mix of both, maybe his power being put in stasis could have degraded more slowly or something. Kind of like the bottle and lid idea, but kind of like milk instead of water, milk goes off much faster if not sealed and kept in a cool place, but even when stored correctly it still can only last so long before going off. So maybe he was only a modest amount stronger at birth (Perhaps future Android 17 and 18 level, but nowhere near Perfect Cell level)
I kind of reached the conclusion I did partly on his claim his power was too much for him to control, hence why he sealed it away, yet on Namek he was handling his final forms power quite well, only at 100% did he suffer energy fatigue. So maybe his power did degrade to where he was able to handle it, but the overall power loss wasn't THAT much.
When fighters engaged each other in the TOP, the stronger individual was forced to suppress their output to their opponents level in order to not kill them and thus be DQ'd, that's how Roshi was able to fight Jiren despite lacking the Ki. Both of them knew that if that beast actually swung with his true might then he'd immediately kill Roshi and DQ himself. TOP feats are sketchy due to this fact when characters fight in it. It was more about their endurance and skills than total Ki output.
Thoroughly, there were many examples where strategy and tactics were the name of the game during the ToP. Good point. Power levels were a little less important in determining how great a fighter was in that venue.
Characters in Super at this point are capable of controlling their Ki to such a degree that they can not only suppress their power to match someone, but also to reach the perfect amount of force necessary to block, dodge or non-lethally one-shot their opponent. So, while they are certainly suppressing themselves insofar as they aren’t trying to kill their opponents, especially if they’re weaker, they wouldn’t need to struggle anywhere near as much as we’re shown with various fights due to the fact that it goes both ways and they can apply the same principal to dodging, tanking and easily one-shorting their opponent without killing them. This has been a thing since DB, seen numerous times throughout the story. But in DB and Z we only really see a supremely stronger character struggle with someone if the power gap is less than what it should be in Super(with occasional other factors like drained stamina, injury. Etc).
The example with Jiren and Roshi doesn’t abide by in-universe logic however, even going by Dragon Ball Super or even within the very same arc where this happens. After all one of the biggest factors working against it is senses. Because a character doesn’t need to power up to use their senses to their maximum capabilities. Senses are typically passive, so Goku can sense just as well in base as he can at 100% in his strongest form. The same can be said for Jiren. So, no matter how strangely Roshi moved or how suppressed Jiren was, what we witnessed is impossible, because Roshi would be moving so slow to Jiren that he might as well be stopped in time.
Which leads into the biggest contradictory moment here. That Jiren was stopped in time while fighting Hit(or at least massively slowed by time lag) and yet was still able to instantly ramp up his power when Hit was in mid strike to take him out and eliminate him. The fact that Jiren can do that makes the moment with Roshi contradictory and nonsensical, because there’s no way Jiren an instantly ramp up his power while nearly frozen in time and hit someone and yet can’t do the same with Roshi.
The only way it makes sense in-universe is if Roshi falls within the margin of error present in Jiren’s senses, which in all previous series is based on speed of strength stats, rather than irregular movements or “UI like movements”. And even then we see Jiren in the manga match MUI Goku and defeat him, so again the Roshi scene doesn’t work in any sense of the word. But Toyotaro has proven to lack understanding of the in-universe mechanics and contradict elements he just introduced at a moment’s notice. Just read the Moro arc for proof of that.
Well that clarifies that. Thanks Mike!
@@LSMMIKE Senses being passive doesnt work, Goku at 3 million agaisnt 4th form Freeza couldnt keep up despite going Kaioken x10( a technique already used to heighten your senses ) and yet when he went Super Saiyan he forced Freeza to increase to 100% , so while i still think Roshi fighting Jiren makes no sense i have to say your theory of senses really doesnt hold up either
He gained whatever power Toriyama needed, to make him compete with Goku SSJ blue
Well think of the insane potential frieza has, he has more potential than goku and vegeta, and maybe even gohan
@@theconmantube3449 all that power was always with in him it and he knew it that’s why he said he will train and bring it out . If he trains now he wouldn’t get much stronger he doesn’t get stronger from battle like the sayians
@@theconmantube3449 yea no that potential shit was an asspull from toriyama.
@@roshanranjan8701 Right? I thought Potential Unlock was as if he had never stopped training in his life. I'm pretty sure when Piccolo was refreshing him before the ToP, he said that he was 'sharpening Gohan's instincts', rather than making him stronger.
In the manga ToP, Gohan wears Piccolo's gi and _solos _*_Kefla._*
@@theconmantube3449potential is the biggest plot device in db. Instead of devising creative ways to catch characters up, they just use the hidden potential
Frieza fighting for a straight hour against broly means he's really improving his stamina and power much more
Truly!
@@UnexpectedWonder Goku and vegeta end their fights a bit early, do u think they can fight for a straight day or more? I think they would just that.....I don't think they have limitless stamina, yet
According to the Broly novel, Golden Frieza's punches were actually "initially" strong enough to stagger Broly to the point Broly would instinctually dodge them despite being in rage mode. Though of course Broly's power just kept rising while Frieza very slowly got worn down, so what modest effectiveness he at first had in the fight diminished until he was little more than Broly's punching bag. Honestly though its pretty impressive Frieza did as well as he did.
@@dreadrath It basically seems that Frieza is stronger than Goku.
@@heathbaker1138 Well either that or just a crap ton more durable.
The real question is, What if Frieza trained after destroying Planet Vegeta?
He solos entire franchise. Even Vegito or Gogeta wouldn't stand a chance
Unbelievable
I made that video already. You can watch it here: th-cam.com/video/AA6htJu1blQ/w-d-xo.html
He would only be as strong as the plot demands lol. If raditz was a villain now, he would easily be Jiren level.
A Frieza who trained from birth/childhood would be interesting, especially since it'd also alter his personality. It'd be like a more disciplined, level headed Frieza, but still super egotistical and cruel, albeit that cruelty would be less impulsive and more calculated, which would make him even more evil.
Freeza's rate of growth is soo absurd its downright hilarious. Imagine how effed everyone would be if Freeza managed to sneak into the Room of Spirit and Time to train. If he managed to go from arguably star level in Namek to universal/multiuniversal in Ressurection F (in just Final Form) by just using a soldier as a punching bag, years of training in harsher conditions would make him easily stronger than Jiren and arguably even full powered Broly and SSGSS Gogeta (at the time of the movie). Literally its arguable that Namek Freeza could've beaten Super Saiyan Goku by just doing pushups and eating his flintstone gummies before bed every day growing up.
This comment has aged FANTASTICALLY
I mean...
10 whole years
Maybe we could bring back power levels with one level equaling a set power level, like Kili in dragon ball. 1 kili is a power level of 50,000 so it’d be easy to bring power levels back
Hey, just recently found the channel. Just want to say really enjoy all your videos. Thoughtful discussions about one of my favourite shows. Thanks for all you do. Keep up the great work
Yo Mike is great. Wait til he does his Q&A. You can follow him on social media to participate
@@DenizenoftheAges thanks for letting me know. Really enjoying what I’ve listened to so far.
If it were just power alone that were a factor, Frieza could easily keep pace with Goku and Vegeta, but its not just power alone anymore since both Goku and Vegeta have loads of hax to go with their power, UI, UE, Spirit fission and so on. At this point it don't matter how strong Frieza gets or what new forms he unlocks, hell he could surpass both of them and still fall short because he doesn't have any special godly abilities or hax, there's only so much training alone can acomplish . . . Although, if Frieza found himself a knowledgeable teacher to show him the path to abilities some would consider, unnatur-uh- I mean haxy . . . Yessss, that could be interesting, especially if combined with more character development.
I'm always excited to see Frieza, I hope he makes a substantial appearance in the current arc.
Pee ka boo
"You fools this isnt even my final form"
@laughingstockmedia Mike, a commentor made a good point that might be worth considering for a future video: The strategy and tactic necessary in the ToP for these über powered folk to not kill people like Roshi and the other human-level fighters. The amount of restraint required to not get DQ'd would have thrown powerscaling out the window altogether for a bulk of the ToP, I think. What are your thoughts?
No need to reply here, got your answer in the other thread
Power Creep in Dragon Ball: Exists
Freeza: So anyway, i started to train 4 months to surpass almost everyone of the Z Fighters
Honestly I think they should've had him train for 1 and a half or 2 years instead of 4 months, that way it would've been more believable, still speedy prodigy level progress, but not absurdly fast. But plot in Dragon Ball kind of just does stuff for the hell of it.
@@dreadrath It's a shonen so yeah, don't expect it to make much sense.
He didn't just surpass them,he made them downright fodder and could one shot them. If they were still around the Namek saga power levels.
4 months vs the decades people trained wtf that’s wack
@@kristopherleslie8343 look at Broly
Frieza was going to be the next god of destruction for sure! And still could be! Maybe vegeta becoming a god of destruction was a curve ball, if frieza trained with beerus he would become insanely strong
Always a good day when Laughingstock posts
🙌🙌🙌
My personal belief is that the Z to Super power increase for Freeza is just noobie gains. Hopefully the trend won't continue though
I mean you’re correct, he didn’t see such a MASSIVE upgrade when he got true golden frieza
The day i commented we need more videos you drop one, and a good topic too!! Thanks bro
Imagine if Frieza having Broly as his sparring partner.
He needs Cooler. Cooler is a better choice
@@joshualowe959 cooler is not cannon. But it would be interesting to see that
@@littlevessel5351 Broly wasn't canon at first either, but look what happened: the Dragon Ball Super Broly movie made Broly canon. Maybe Cooler will be made canon in the Dragon Ball Super Superhero movie or the Dragon Ball Super manga
@@joshualowe959 true. But I don’t think cooler even though he trained more than frieza would even be a good match for him if cooler would go full/true golden.
I mean cooler would not be a good Match for frieza
Atleast 10x in the anime cuz goku ssb KAIOKEN x10 was competing with full power hit in the U6 vs U7 tourney and after the goku black arc he was just using ssjb against hit and they were even
Never been this early before, keep up the great work on your vids
The power scaling is fucked up in Super. Especially Frieza. He barely trained long but somehow he's already God level. It's bullshit.
@@DiamondBlade11 true. If they still wanna use the prodigy excuse everyone is getting now for asspull power ups,then four years is at least 55% believable. 3 years is around 40% believable. Four months is unbelievable.
I figured everyone was a prodigy by now. Only way to get that strong after namek arc.
@@TheIrishRushin yeah seems prodigy is the only excuse they use to give people big powerups in little amount of time.
@@janusgreenway5137 i mean they kinda said that the whole ginyu force + Frieza were all *mutants* early on, but when it comes to our main cast of characters, none of them are mutants
so its believable at the least
It's gotten to the point where I just focus on who's winning and who's losing lol They always make no sense when it comes to who's supposed to be so powerful and what not. The fights just rock. Glad to see they're giving Frieza some love again.
Hey Laughingstock Media could you do a video about how many times vegeta got kill in Dragon Ball? so yeah that i want to see next time on your channel okay this Shades Frames saying to you all see you later over and out.
Frieza in the tournament of power I felt was done way better than it should have been done... Accidentally!!. Everything he did fit him to the T and made it great to see him acting outside of being the main antagonist. Didn't like how frieza just got his life restored like it's nothing. It could have still happened but at least throw in some drama and second guessing before just to handing it to him and not after like goku can just simply beat him no contest. I wish the whole TOP was done the same way.
Frieza will always be my favorite character. So savage and funny
Android 17 broke power scaling. How the hell did 17 got so strong in super?
Mans was out here fighting off poachers and became SSB level 💀
Does anyone have the translated scan that MJ was talking about with Goku and Frieza being the strongest two with there backs to each other at 22:00
How much power did Frieza gain?
Yes.
@@deckzone3000 Yeah.. at this point it would be best for them to publicly just state GT is not part of the main continuity.. So many different inconsistencies are starting to pile up, it's ridiculous.
I wanna know more about Frieza's race or species. I know he has a dad. Sometimes a brother, and in the other universe there is Frost. It would be interesting if there were others like them. Maybe even a good one.
Freeza was always a cool character. I hate him but I adore his abilities and insane power, making him one of the most badass villains in history. Now Mike could you please do a what if nobody has ever done? I really want to see how it goes into detail. What if Vegeta never became a super Saiyan? Do you believe he could have been helpful even without it?
Can you do how much power did goku gain from the top ark to the moro ark please
20:40 imotion contorl and key is linked so jiren was wekend
I thought he didnt get stronger it's just that he was able to keep all of his strength in his golden form after coming back from hell. Also it kind of seems like his golden frieza 2.0 is like an equivalent of the mastered super saiyan from the cell saga
Makes sense, being able to fully control and use the power he has rather than just getting stronger.
I think Gohan had the biggest boost in Dragonball Super; so far lol.
Couple of days training with Piccolo and he is fighting Blue Goku/Kk post everything prior ToP lol.
Coolstorybro!
This increase of freeza was what broke the power scale completely.
Hinting at beerus’ strength relative to ssjg in the BoG arc was what broke the scaling. They shouldn’t have said/imply (based on the version) that goku was 70% (movie) or in the ballpark based on the show.
It's what broke the DragonBall franchise.
Naw...
imagine if Freiza got his potential unlocked by Guru, it would be curtains for everyone.
One problem I had with Resurrection F was that he was fighting base Goku in his 4th form.
I have a friend who looks like Frieza however, he's weak
The question is was freeza stronger than goku and vegeta prior to there new forms They obtained in top?
Skill weak and ki weak are 2 different things...being rusty in skill despite power doesn't mean the power isn't there...you don't aren't as comfortable with accessing it as you once were.
@@SuperKamiGuruu ki doesn't leave....Gohan didn't lose the amount of ki he had in the cell saga he just didn't access it.
@@SuperKamiGuruu think about this. Gohan fighting cell was currently the most powerful because of ki. He wasn't a better fighter he was just stronger and faster. Plus he was enraged....the same Gohan that beat cell was almost getting killed because he wasn't angry enough...like a hulk banner situation.
@@SuperKamiGuruu then on top of that goku and vegeta had gotten stronger as well.
Why are we even talking about this? The writers don’t care anymore so idk why we do
Why didnt freiza used his golden form vs god of destruction toppo
Yo man, how about doing a comparison of Seiya to Goku? Seiya gets some absolutely nasty amps, though I think that with mastered MUI, Goku may be able to put up a good fight to Seiya
I’m pretty sure Broly takes the cake for getting the biggest power jump. We really don’t know what he started as, but he got go post ToP SSB power in a day...
U should do one from end of z goku to beginning of gt
He takes the piccolo meditation training to the extreme.
Frieza likely increased his power during the tournament as well, his growth is far more insane than even the saiyans have ever demonstrated. I don't think Frieza being the 2nd strongest u7 fighter at the time is an overstatement.
Yea I never understood that how his robot parts went to hell with him
man they fucked it up w ssg, and ssb. it should have been like this. in battle vs beerus goku got ssg and lost, then he shouldnt be able to obtain that ssg form again without the ritual (until he trains) then in the next sagas he gets ssb a "nerfed" form of ssg (god ki + ssj form). then it should be ssb
That power boost is so bs, it kind of pisses me off.
At this point its one of the more mild examples of power jumps. Now we've got characters who just randomly get stronger the longer the fight goes on, like Goku Black, Hit, Broly and even Vegeta's new form. By comparison, Frieza's power jump seems rather unimpressive. Still, even original DBZ had some pretty insane power leaps, though nowhere near as bad as DBS.
@@dreadrath Frieza had the biggest power jump in the whole franchise thanks to his mutant properties, struggling to fight SSJ to stronger than SSJB, so i wouldn't refer to it as unimpressive
Super just broke power levels for good xd.
Way more than he should have.
Can you do a what if Vegeta fault freezer first in his blue form
Honestly I dont like the tornament of power they should have been able to kill that way they could go all out because those beam UI goku used should have killed Jiren so that means he was holding back and that sucks
Actually been thinking of making a similar video...
you probably still should! get your input on this idea out there!
@@hosayjosay Aw thanks :3 such videos take ages to make tho, and I feel like mine would just be ignored xD
@@Jogeta well its all up to you, i personally would love to see another video on this topic
Nice vid, however I have to say…
Goku and Vegeta said themselves that their bodies were close to reaching their limits before entering the Time Chamber for 3 years. Coupled with the fact that it’s been confirmed they lost their ability to use Zenkai boosts since the Frieza saga, it’s likely they didn’t grow significantly stronger here. However, during those 3 years Goku did discover Blue Kaioken in the anime
Goku defeating Hit without Kaioken doesn’t necessarily mean he grew x10 stronger. Hit relies on his techniques to battle. In terms of raw power he’s weaker than SSJ Blue (we saw this in the anime U6 tournament)
Frieza didn’t necessarily increase his raw strength either, his mental training allowed him to finally control Golden Frieza’s energy to the point where his power level wouldn’t decrease over time. Basically Full Power Golden Frieza
Goku did grow in strength between the Goku Black arc and the ToP tho, considering he was even with Vegeta, who had trained to defeat Goku Black. He also caught up to Golden Frieza, who could kill him back in RoF. But honestly, I don’t believe it’s far beyond 2x
That was never confirmed. How else did Goku Black himself get Zenkai boosts despite using the body of a Goku from a time where his Zenkai boosts would've stopped?? 🤨 Not to mention the zenkai boosts both Goku and Vegeta got from the TOP
@@acecashman1237 it’s been confirmed multiple times already. Daizenshuu 7 states Zenkais have become negligible / non-existent after the Namek saga, forcing the Saiyans to rely on transformations and fusions to power up. After Gohan healed from fighting Buutenks, it’s noted that his power level didn’t increase at all. In the DBS anime, Vegeta said his and Goku’s bodies were nearing their limits and wouldn’t grow much stronger from 3 years worth of training. In the DBS manga it’s outright stated that Goku and Vegeta don’t have to ability to use Zenkais anymore, unlike Goku Black for some reason
.... I just had a flash of what the show would have been entirely from Freiza's perspective. The very Gods of the Universe had accepted him being Emperor. Their abscence signifying a divine right to rule. The strongest natural being in existence. Toppled by a monkey.... I think i understand him now..
If King Freeza can get that strong in two months, then his race has its own Zenkai equivalent or better than the Saiyans
13:30 Hmm so that means Toppo is potentially stronger than god of destruction Sidra despite only being a god of destruction candidate which would then make blue evolution Vegeta even stronger than that
Freiza got a power boost of 1.3 million!! He even said it himself...
If the clash between super saiyan god goku and berus was enough to almost destroy the universe then shouldn't the fight between a stronger goku and even stronger frieza have done the same thing. Shouldn't everytime goku fights someone in blue form send ripples across the universe?
I don't know how many other people know this I don't know if it's common knowledge not about Frieza but he's actually a mutant the rest of his race I don't know if anyone noticed but if you look back the rest of his race is mostly purple like their skin is mostly purple Frieza ends up being an albino text so he's actually a mutant so that actually might explain also why he has such a more power increase than King cold or cooler anyone else of that race
That's true, but he shouldn't have come back it's was only for fanservice and nostalgia,it was just a bug fight scene n he got killed again and again, it was. Bullshit.
Hes the ultimate tank. Basically a god
I thought he trained for 6 months beating up the dude that captain ginyu trained with. I hope they reveal his training partner in the granolah arc
Dragon Ball Super Broly came out 3 years ago dude...
You should've included Frieza's survival feat against Super Saiyan Broly.
Frieza was able to battle against/survive against Broly for an ENTIRE HOUR until Gogeta showed up.
Brief reminder, Goku & Vegeta's fights lasted MINUTES before they Retreated....
Frieza was always shown to have a higher degree of durability. The dude's body went through an insane amount of damage in the Namek arc and still he servived whereas most other characters would've immediately died of their injuries.
I clicked the bell on your vids and didn’t get notified 🤦🏾♂️
Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately TH-cam hasn’t been delivering my notifications for a while. But thanks for watching, I appreciate it.
I was just thinking about this. Golden frieza was stronger than ssj blue in Resurrection F. Then before the TOP arc Frieza is on par with ssj blue Goku (a Goku that had the universe 6 tournament and the goku black arc). So Frieza didn't actually get that strong
I mean if he really was going full power against frieza im the single punch hit. Wouldn't he have gone kaioken blue? The only one who he went kaioken blue was gohan
Now what about Black Frieza? O.o
Yall forgot sidra said that was a small hakai... why he couldn't resist toppos
What if he spent time training in hyperbolic time chamber
My imagination came true
I'm not to disagree on one point in here I don't think Mecca freezer was stronger than original I think he actually took a dip in power like not that big of a dip but still like he doesn't have his own natural demon type body and stuff and sure the mecca Frieza allowed him to gain access to that power quicker but I don't think he was more powerful than he was on planet namek
U7 team top 5 Strongest to As Strong goes Goku Frieza Vegeta 17 debate piccolo/gohan then everyone else is just there
Look out Frieza..... Granola is coming for you!
16:11 Actually Frieza would be 50x stronger than he was in resurrection of F given Goku became 10x stronger 1 year after the universe 6 tournament which was 1 year before the top so and Goku had trained 3 years with Vegeta in the hyperbolic time chamber in preparation for the universe 6 tournament therefore of we asume a 10 times boost reletive to the Goku after the universe 6 tournament he would have gotten well over 50x stronger than he was during the events of ROF but given that he grew 10x stronger reletive to his strength during the events of ROF he is actually exponentially higher than 50x in growth so... And this is considering golden Frieza~super saiyan Blue Goku in power so at the absolute lowest he is 50x stronger but even that isn't actuate given we don't know how much stronger he had gotten in the hyperbolic time chamber so if we asume a 10 times increase each year over the last, he would have gotten 100000x stronger which in itself doesn't make sense but hey when has power scaling in dragon ball ever made sense after the cell saga?
Frieza really did lose against Goku on namek because he cut himself in half.
How da fk does a laser blast 💥 go through someone able to tank universal blast cmon man
He wasn't looking and stuff
All of it
All of the power
Just wait until Frieza train inside the time chamber. Golden Frieza times four strength
Frieza is thee villain of DB.
Hiya
How strong is 17??
Long live Lord Frieza!
Frieza only managed to hold off a weakened Jiren.
didnt he kick and push a serious jiren (when his shirt had a hole in it), additionally frieza was also weakened
@@Nemo-ew2hd Caught him by surprise.
@@imjustadog1897 ah ok
I mean why ya comparing base goku vs final form freeza to try and hype up freeza lmao…goku was in base keeping up with freeza so I’m not really impressed
I think you guys are confusing mental fortitude with physical ability freeze is not stronger than Goku it's just that Frieza has expert telekinetic ability his level of spirit control is unfounded that's how all of his people are so it's more like he's as strong as Goku but he has better Spirit fishing techniques than Goku does that's why he could separate the hakai from his body
Can’t wait for whatever bullshit form they give him
Did freida have his body om hell
Frieza getting that much more power was an insult to reasonable people. Golden should've been buu level at best.
Hi
What’s up?
@@LSMMIKE nothing much
Sadly Golden Frieza cant beat Broly, that is not even super saiyan blue. Sad.
INFINITE POWER!
*POWER IS MAXIMUM!*
Unlimited POWER!!!
Bro Goku could beat naruto six paths with his base
Low tier god would ban that scrub.
Goku is in base form! and frieza golden ! Look beter
Jiren was *NEVER* stated to be stronger than every single GoD. That’s a flat out lie.
He was stated to be stronger than a god of destruction which might mean any god of destruction
@@Wtf._.0rlando Jiren was stated to be stronger than GoD of HIS universe. We don't know how the 11th universe GoD compares to the other destroyers.
@@Wtf._.0rlando yes, “*A*” GoD not *ALL THE GoD’s*.
MJx just threw y’all some bullshit and he knows it.
@@da_hitmanhart6650 Goku unlocked the power the gods of destruction cannot master still, jiren was able to keep up with goku until goku got a rage boost
@@Wtf._.0rlando and you bring this for what reason?
Your post was irrelevant. Anybody can master ui with training. If master Rossi or krillin mastered the technique it would not automatically make them stronger than a GoD. Jiren keeping up with goku’s mui also means nothing in regards to being stronger than all the GoD’s. You’re reaching now.
You do realize that Goku getting shot by Sorbet is not nonsensical at all, right? Dragon Ball characters are powerful beings but they are still (most of them) made up of flesh and bone. They can tank these giant plasma beams in one scene but get torn to shreds in another, for example this happens to Cell and Piccolo.
Goku got shot because he let his guard down, that was the whole point of the scene and part of the set up for him learning ultra instinct. You can even see this in real life where there's monks who can take a drill to their stomach and it won't go through them. It's the same with DB characters. I'm pretty sure they can even be killed by a bullet if they were unconscious.
To much
First ha losers anyways this is pretty cool
Look again :)
Haha you’re the loser, you’re not first
@@PurPurDot look again :)