The long awaited BFA tank rating video is here! If you enjoyed this video and found it useful remember to hit LIKE and SUBSCRIBE enabling notifications to not miss out on the Mythic+ Ranked video or all the exciting BFA content we have planned. Thanks for watching. Have an amazing weekend.
Eh Scobro, hopefully the tradition is going to follow up, and the mighty dud is going to be the one for challenge breaking like it was in last exp... ^^ Till now, you had high hopes for monks, but druds were the one to make impossible things possible :D Hopefully aggro problem is not back, but if we are kinda back to wtlk it may be... Also it would be nice to see old maul from wotlk... In exchange for trait dmg loss... Ill miss that trash + maul dmg qq
I still keep playing Warrior, I'm a Warrior Tank since Vanilla and even it's not the strongest tank it's my most fav. one. Been gone through a lot of things and those memories are amazing. It's more than a character to me.
Tanks ranked from worst to best: 6th: Demon Hunter = 11.5 points overall (Better suited for M+ than raids) 5th: Warrior = 12.0 points overall 4th: Deathknight = 12.5 points (Weaker for raiding than in Legion) 3rd: Paladin = 12.5 points (Solid playstyle, but lacks uptime on active mitigation) 2nd: Druid = 15.0 points (Awesome active mitigation, and tank with highest health bar) 1st: Monk = 15.5 points (Best active mitigation)
Shinrak Did I actually mention that I needed the video? Blizzard is working hard on the theory 'bring the player - not the class'. If you are a cutting edge hardcore raider go ahead and play the boring bear #cowburger
I've had issue with earlier attempts at ranking videos by Method, mostly from a lack of actual methods (methodology) that would eliminate analytic bias frequently employed by analysts. However, while still subjective, your ranking system is a great step in a good direction. Good video and good information, thank you
Well done Papa Bear. Another expansion with my cute little Bear with arms like Pop-eye. Great video was waiting for it already and can't wait for the mythic+ one.
You deserve way more subs than you have at the moment, all your videos are very good in every aspect Also without fanboying too hard, you're my reference when it comes to anything about tanks, as you are to many other people, so thank you for the amount of work you put into all of this
I played all 6 Tank classes on a sorta high level in legion and let me say one thing, Tank DH is byfar one of the most fun things I´ve ever played in WoW and also, maybe Prot Warri is way less fun, it´s pretty legit to play and balanced enugh to run some high Myths (15+) cleanly.
I actually disagree with the DH being a unfinished spec in the better half of legion. The class felt complete but also felt fun with a lot of room for improvement. It was a bit more difficult to play compared to other tanks specs that's why people dont play it as much. The class it self has a very odd way to tank by in that taking more dmg gives you pain and thus increases you dmg out put and active mitigation times. So in short the more dmg you take the more you heal, dps, and the tanky you are. That's why the spec was hard for most players un legion but in BFA they are dumbing it down to retarded monkey standards making it more for accessible for the majority which is bad imo.
What could you think of? I honestly think that 2 are fitting and well made. Try to think about another DPS Specc, without getting some DH specifics out of context.
Is there a reason you chose not to include "mobility" in the tank values? I feel like this may shift your weighting considerably, and it's not an insignificant part of raid tanking.
Limerick Goblin I don't think it's as big as you might think, like in Legion raids there was maybe 1 boss at most that you would argue mobility made any Impact and there are easy ways around it. It's not going to make you reroll to another tank for mobility or I'd hope not 😅😂
If having a gorefiends grasp for that once-per-expansion encounter is worth 0.25 of a point, then being able to leap across a raid platform definitely counts for something. Mobility is enormous, just look at mythic varimathras -- tanks with leaps or rolls trivialize the disease mechanic, where a paladin or death knight could not handle it.
Yeah mobility is a minimal consideration inside progress raiding, and even then every tank has some kind of option for that - even Death Knights can make themselves immune to knocks now if you are thinking about KJ
Limerick Goblin I get that but that's my point. There is 1 raid boss 2 at most per raid where it becomes something at best and even then there are ways around it it's not a consistent enough factor to consider your main tank. I mean it might to you but the majority there are ways around it easily
I agree it's a small consideration, but I suppose I'd just rate it higher than certain other valued ratings in the video. Of course you can work around having low mobility, but you can work around having no grip or having no self sustain -- but the value of a tank is in how much they bring as a single package. Great content as always Sco.
Great video, while I disagree a few points, most of them are solid. That's the beauty of diversity isn't? Every Core has their own comp. GL on your race!
Another awesome Vid! Have to agree with your assessment on the druid. Good mitigation but they took away the one cooldown that added choice to the spec. Look forward to seeing how the expansion plays out and which tank you choose to go with :D
Thank you for the video! I'm a main monk player and still bouncing the idea of going brew or windwalker, just because it's easier to get into groups I think I will go brew which is what I played at the end of legion, the playstyle is very similar to legion and the gdc changes doesn't seem to affect it that much like warriors. I hear you on the vengance demon hunter but the playstyle is very fun and satisfying leaping around all over the place.
You missed some of DH mitigation. Gluttony, consuming a soul fragment has a chance to activate metamorphosis for 5 seconds. Void Reaver reduces all damage by 6% to enemies hit with soul cleave. Demon spikes is more of a burst damage skill like shield block.
Impending Victory being a 20% heal is fantastic. The cooldown is completely negligible in dungeons as well as there are many opportunities to last-hit things and time between pulls for cooldowns. Anything cooldown-based is perfectly OK in everything except maybe raids, and even then it can help pick up the slack during the rougher phases in raids so long as your healers are competent. Especially with the complete lack of secondary stats right now, playing around cooldown abilities is probably A-OK in general.
Sco , Bullturd here I`d like to start off with thanking you for time and efforts you put in to these great tools "Videos" you provide us players in the community Like always well thought out and i would agree with you on the final thoughts of standings , I do wish Warrior would have been a bit stronger like in my past raiding days of playing a Prot Warrior for 13 years , Legion brought me to Guardian and tho its boring I do like the fact i out live my raid team lol . again TYVM bud and best of luck in BFA
I personally would have weighted the utility aspect a bit higher because even though utility is niche, when it’s used correctly it is VERY powerful. This probably does become much more niche at world first raiding, but great video nonetheless!
Brewmaster for life, since MoP. I miss the MoP style but it was ridiculous heh. I plan to play all the tanks in BFA. My main is a Brewmaster though, cheers for the video.
I really hope you do another one of these videos after any balance passes happen in the near future. (Assuming they're planning one). Also Azerite gear might change some of this I'm guessing.
Dang, I was indecisive if I should level my Demon Hunter or a Monk in BFA for my alt, not necessarily for tanking, but for all specs. I think this video helped me decide. I like playing demon hunter for damage and monk for healing, but I always tank with friends as an off-spec. Looks like I'm bringing my monk into bfa, but after I level my main, which is going to be the mage. Thanks for the insightful video.
I think VDH should be higher, Firery Brand is a 40% damage reduction (all types) on a 1m cd. When you tank swap you have it up nearly every time you're actively tanking and it fits perfectly in the windows when DS is down. I would also argue that the tank's mobility should count for some utility as it allows you to position the boss better than some other tanks can. I'm not saying they should be #1 but there is no way they are #6.
So, I loved the video and I have been waiting for it for a few weeks now. I do think that druids look a bit high, I suspect that once more people start playing we will see those numbers change a bit. With paladin and DK moving up on the list and druids falling. I've seen some people say DH is too low, but I agree with SCO that I would rather not progress on a tank like a DH. The Mythic plus list will change this list too, don't forget we will all be gearing up in 5mans and if you have trouble completing a key it will lower your gear score, making tanking harder. DH will be high on that list as they are the kings of 5mans, giving a bit more value then he is showing. I didn't really care for the rating system, it is kind of contrived and the same logic wasn't always used on things like utility values. Ultimately the only surprise was how high the druid are valued, so I don't entirely disagree with SCO's conclusions. I wish they would fix warriors :(.
Cheers for the overview (y) Not much have changed in the aspect of rankings from Legion. As for m+ I also beleive we will see blood (>) and vengeance on top.
I wonder about the scaling with the new traits and raid/mythic+ gear, but I do think the mechanics of both druid & monk will result in both scaling very well. I keep my druid geared for mid-range myth+ content for guildies who want to run weekly 15s for their chests, so it's nice to see the class showing well in mitigation even though I think the damage is too low currently.
As a guardian druid main tank, I couldn't agree more with you on what to expect with the spec in raiding. They are boring, strong, and easy to play. Guardian brings cool utility to m+ in terms of CC and survivability. I am looking forward to seeing your impression on them for pushing keys and their ranking in the meta.
Great video, Sco! I recently rolled a monk myself and am having a bunch of fun with it. I always assumed monks would be lame/boring, but i was wrong for sure. Brewmaster and Windwalker are great fun!
no secondaries on the Azerite armor is not the reason for lower secondaries, the heart of azeroth has over 4 items of secondaries. It is do to secondary stat scaling, it is a flat increase per item level, vs. in Legion it is an exponential % scaling like main stat.
I wonder if Blizzard will ever realize that giving tanks cds that forces them to go through gaps of taking unmitigated damage isn’t exactly a good thing for a tank
0.25/1.5 for grip and mass grip seems kinda low. It does indeed depend on the specific fight, rendering it useless sometimes but in some occasions it trivializes otherwise annoying or hard to deal mechanics. Solid and well put video.
yeah the scoring was definitely tweaked a bit to position the tanks where I believe they stood overall, however grip/mass grip is really niche - its either v useful or not at all so who knows how to score it properly.
Hey sco great vid and I for the most part agree with everything u said here with how the tanks r going to play in bfa and about bear tanks being super ez and boring and I main a bear so ya not happy but at least I can still raid lead 😁 keep up the good work man here's to hoping warriors and demon hunter get buffed for raiding so we can all play something more fun
Now I see why Mage tower is removed. With the tank changes alone it's impossible to do as it was designed for a different game vision And reworking Mage tower will take insane amount of work
I main a VDH and he has some important points. We cannot keep our AM up all the time like Guardians and Monks, on top of having the worst Tank CD (at L120 Meta gives as much armour as half Demon Spikes). Look by another angle: try to think of a boss damage profile where a VDH plus 5 healers beat a Monk plus 5 healers.See?
Hi Sco! Thank you very much for the tank rankings for raiding and mythic +. The decision on what to tank with in BFA is still so hard. I have one question though, on both videos you have ranked Warriors (seems to be my favourite tank atm) fairly low, however in most of your videos you are using your warrior. My question is this, do you consider the warrior a viable tank when it comes to mythic+ and raiding even with its low ranking? I am trying many different tanks and I keep on coming back to want to play the warrior
looking forward to the mythic+ rankings. im trying to decide what to main for bfa sincei will have limited time to play i wanna get a overall good choice
btw. you have mystic vitality basically baseline now as brewmasters... they removed the talent but they buffed the baseline stagger against magic damage
Nice video! Sad that im tihnking about playing vengence :( You didnt mention monk taunt under utility. Speeding up an add/boss can be a great dps increase. You just didnt think about it or it is not worth mentioning? (Fallen avatar p2 ;)
i have seen some inconsistency on utility rank DH and Monk for what you have said are not different but monk got 0.5 and dh 0.25, another point you have mention alot utility for Paladin and gave him 0.5 but for Warrior you gave 1 and metion only 2 buff(Rallying Cry is OP but Battle Shout you can put at the same weigh for Monk and DH in raid composition). The Rank without utility is: DH 11 War 11 Pala 12 Dk 12.25 Druid 14 Monk 15 I know there is more aspects to talk and you can even try to put situational stuffs (mobility/grip/mass silence...) but is your Rank and you problably know what you talking about. Thank you for the video man, is good to see your opinion about the topic.
I just wish that Guardian Druids were more fun to play in BFA... I had a decent bit of fun messing around with that Arcane build in Legion, and would have liked to see some variation like that in BFA too.
Seeing as the raids aren't open yet, there's no way to predict how much magic damage the fights are going to have. On fights with little to no magic damage, there's no way that magic mitigation is going to have twice as much weight as self-sustain.
Iirc the AM buff for dks is actually a small buff that follows the use of Death Strike. It's tooltip is "recently used Death Strike." this is what bosses mechanics check against for AM. Marrow rend is also a sort of active mitigation (more like passive imo, since its stacks you bank), just saying that bosses check against Death Strike for things like Molten Crash(NL), Vengeful Shear(BRH),etc. So while you will have some sort of AM(or at least pass. mit.) up 100% of the time, the actual AM mechanic check uptime is dependent on your DS frequency, not Bone Shield stacks. another edit: it seems bloodshield is also an AM, so even if you didnt DS recently, any amount of piddly BLOOD shield will stop the check. marrowrend(and it's buff, bone shield) defintely doesnt atm however. Or has that changed in BFA? edited for clarity
There wasn't a single raid boss in legion that checked for AM if my memory serves me right, mostly because you are supposed to know what you are doing and most raid mechanics will probably kill you if you don't. Dungeons had this as a sort of "tutorial" aspect to teach you to use AM at the right times. Blood shield is getting a buff but having it up at any specific time isn't feasible because it dissapears surprisingly quick. Marrowrend also counts as AM for like 3 seconds after using it if I remember correctly.
I was going to switch my main to either a paladin or warrior tank, but to be honest after reading up on BfA and watching some videos i don't think i'll bother i was a Warrior tank for a couple of expansions but sadly i don't think i'll go back now.
Only thing I disagree with is Paladin Utility score, why so low, it doesn't give a raid buff but those can be recieved through inscription, the blessings are so strong not only on the pally itself but also for clutch instances on other players in the raid.
I really dont like the active uptime issues. Having some tanks with better and some tanks worse is kind of scary. It reminds me of early Wrath when DK had 1 minute wall.
For paladin utility do you not feel the amount of extra interrupt with shield procs doesn't weigh in much in progression group simply because at that level Interrupt rotations and such shouldn't be a problem?
So... one question i'd still like to ask... what are you gonna main in bfa? Back to the roots and go prot warrior, or druid? Like your ranking and toughts and like anything tank related from your side anyway :D but that question still bugs me
Wow about the warrior's self sustain I feel that only fury has a lovely self heal, while you have to spec into impending victory inorder to have a false hope of self healing. I mean thanks for at least speaking up about the general problem who I feel with both prot, and arms warrior.
About paladin tank and active mitigation uptime. If i noticed correctly from the gameplay shown above, casting Judgement still reduces the current recharge of Shield of the Righteous by 2 ,or 4 seconds on a critical strike. In that case, shouldn't the rating be a bit higher? If the Judgement cd is still unchanged and 6 seconds, that means every shield of the Righteous charge would have a 2 second lower cd anyway (assuming that you can cast judgement on cd everytime ofc). This will also be greatly influenced by haste ofc, but you stated that in your vid. Sadly I didn't have the possibility to play beta myself so that's why I'm asking
Yes Judgement still works like that, it doesn't solve the gaps in AM though. The gameplay footage was taken from an early alpha build for Paladin btw - it's just random background footage I could find :D
In most of Antorus bosses you are only tanking half the time. Why is there such a big focus on the 100% uptime on mitigation? Wouldnt it be better to have a tank with 50% uptime on strong mitigation rather than 100% on small mitigation?
Do you have any information about necessity of DK's grips and Guardian Druid's roar on BFA first raid? Like KJ and aggramar did. I think grips and roar are important to choosing raid tanks(although they got nerfed), but you set UTILITY max score just only 1.5.
Still sticking with my warrior. Haven't main changed at all since I made my Tauren in Vanilla.....but still enjoy watching your ranks every new expansion. =)
Warrior is fun to play, been having a good time with it on BFA beta which you might have seen on stream - just a few small things that can be annoying like so many abilities being on GCD!
Currently a MW main with a BDK tank "second"? Pretty sure I'll be sticking with BDK in bfa, because it's the only tank spec that I find interesting, but I might try out BrM. It's something I've been meaning to do for a while now. I switched my bear to kitty in legion because it was just too boring for me, and if it's getting even less involved, I can pretty much say I won't be playing it. Sad, because I loved tanking on the druid in Wrath enough that I switched it to my main for cata and really enjoyed it. I do have a second paly that I've decided will be prot, but mainly for lower end stuff, nothing more serious than lfr or maybe normal, and mainly dungeons. Prot paly seems fun as an aside, but not something I could ever devote to as a main. I hate vengeance.... I started out legion loving vengeance, and was pretty close to maining it, but the more I played it, the more I despised it.... not really sure why. At any rate, what I've played of havoc on beta is enough to convince me that my DHs will be havoc. My warrior is fury... I've never been much of a fan of warrior. She sat in that icy cold starting zone for years, stuck as a level 12, never getting played, until I saw the reworked animations for legion fury, so I used my free boost on her. Whenever I've played prot warrio, I find myself thinking "is this really all there is?" Not like "I don't have what I need to tank" but more of a "where are the abilities?" And with devastator being so strong, it made it even worse.
monks are looking really good as a whole this expansion. It's crazy. MW being one of the best healers, BrM being an amazing tank, and WW are pretty solid over all. Yet, still, hardly anyone plays them. I wish bears had a few changes. HP buff, FR maybe having a reduced recharge by 2 seconds or increase the healing by 6% or so, thrash having a snare,and they'd be solid imo for m+ but currently, they feel rather mediocre. At least they got a aoe damage buff. I sorta feel the scoring is a bit off point wise on some classes or the usefulness like Self sustained should matter a bit more imo. at least 5 points or 6.
An additional Roar is not the same as having another DH - multiple roars can be used throughout a fight, and you will always find uses for them to increase movement hence raid DPS/survivability. That and I am not used to having a Feral in raids! :D
The long awaited BFA tank rating video is here!
If you enjoyed this video and found it useful remember to hit LIKE and SUBSCRIBE enabling notifications to not miss out on the Mythic+ Ranked video or all the exciting BFA content we have planned.
Thanks for watching. Have an amazing weekend.
Super interested in the M+ Video. Would be nice to get your assumptions before 8.0 lands.
You are amazing Sco, any plans for a Mythic Plus one?
Now that you have ranked the tanks do you know what your main is gonna be?
Eh Scobro, hopefully the tradition is going to follow up, and the mighty dud is going to be the one for challenge breaking like it was in last exp... ^^
Till now, you had high hopes for monks, but druds were the one to make impossible things possible :D
Hopefully aggro problem is not back, but if we are kinda back to wtlk it may be... Also it would be nice to see old maul from wotlk... In exchange for trait dmg loss... Ill miss that trash + maul dmg qq
Great video man! Nice format with the points and just the right amount of time spent on each tank. Looking forward to the M+ version!
03:26 Demon Hunter
05:38 Warrior
08:12 Death Knight
11:18 Paladin
14:10 Druid
16:45 Monk
I still keep playing Warrior, I'm a Warrior Tank since Vanilla and even it's not the strongest tank it's my most fav. one. Been gone through a lot of things and those memories are amazing. It's more than a character to me.
Tanks ranked from worst to best:
6th: Demon Hunter = 11.5 points overall (Better suited for M+ than raids)
5th: Warrior = 12.0 points overall
4th: Deathknight = 12.5 points (Weaker for raiding than in Legion)
3rd: Paladin = 12.5 points (Solid playstyle, but lacks uptime on active mitigation)
2nd: Druid = 15.0 points (Awesome active mitigation, and tank with highest health bar)
1st: Monk = 15.5 points (Best active mitigation)
dk uld you’re more geared idiot
If look at Warcraftlogs best Tanks are DK and DH and the Druid moste lowest possition, i play myself with Druid and its very
sadly
Ty
3:26 DH
5:48 Warrior
8:10 DK
11:17 Paladin
14:10 Druid
16:44 Monk
Thank you so much Sco. Been waiting for this video for so long. Thanks for your work.
you defenitly needed it, because your 11/11 normal guide needs the best class they can get ;)))
Shinrak Did I actually mention that I needed the video? Blizzard is working hard on the theory 'bring the player - not the class'. If you are a cutting edge hardcore raider go ahead and play the boring bear #cowburger
I've had issue with earlier attempts at ranking videos by Method, mostly from a lack of actual methods (methodology) that would eliminate analytic bias frequently employed by analysts. However, while still subjective, your ranking system is a great step in a good direction. Good video and good information, thank you
Very nice job, Sco. I enjoy so much all the effort you've put into this one.
Kepp it up!!!
thanks man!
Can tell u put alot of effort into this one,thank you
are u ask drunk as he was when he tried to 1 shot narrate this
Warlocks are the best tanks. Everyone knows that.
Maybe not warlocks, but tbh hunter pets... :D
Yup Hunters are best tanks , Get 3 Hunter and 3 Pets and keep taunting :D
Uhm...have you seen evasion rogues? They’re clearly the best tanks.
Finally... Been waiting for this video for so long. :)
Superb analysis Sco , as a Pala tank it's good to know that we are still in the top 3 with DK
ritesh joshi dk is nr 4.....
Glenn, you seem like a smart lad, you will figure it out.
Its about damn time, thank you so much Sco.
Love how method actually rank the classes instead of all the other insert spec / role ranked videos on youtube where they don't actually rank them.
Well done Papa Bear. Another expansion with my cute little Bear with arms like Pop-eye. Great video was waiting for it already and can't wait for the mythic+ one.
I feel like this was the information I needed going forward. Thanks!
You deserve way more subs than you have at the moment, all your videos are very good in every aspect
Also without fanboying too hard, you're my reference when it comes to anything about tanks, as you are to many other people, so thank you for the amount of work you put into all of this
thanks for the kind words man
Sad to see that blizz still doesn't understand how fix warriors and continues to leave Veng dh an unfinished spec
I played all 6 Tank classes on a sorta high level in legion and let me say one thing, Tank DH is byfar one of the most fun things I´ve ever played in WoW and also, maybe Prot Warri is way less fun, it´s pretty legit to play and balanced enugh to run some high Myths (15+) cleanly.
I actually disagree with the DH being a unfinished spec in the better half of legion. The class felt complete but also felt fun with a lot of room for improvement. It was a bit more difficult to play compared to other tanks specs that's why people dont play it as much. The class it self has a very odd way to tank by in that taking more dmg gives you pain and thus increases you dmg out put and active mitigation times. So in short the more dmg you take the more you heal, dps, and the tanky you are. That's why the spec was hard for most players un legion but in BFA they are dumbing it down to retarded monkey standards making it more for accessible for the majority which is bad imo.
Demon hunter is missing a 3rd spec - another dps. Havoc is terrible imo, not fun at all to play and not good dps, also brings no utility.
What could you think of? I honestly think that 2 are fitting and well made.
Try to think about another DPS Specc, without getting some DH specifics out of context.
Veng stopped being fun the moment Spirit Bomb got reworked
You did a great job evaluating the tanks. I think you nailed it
Excellent video Sco, Thanks again!.
Thanks man, been a lot of requests for this one - tried my best to deliver but always hard at the start of an expansion and limited playability.
Is there a reason you chose not to include "mobility" in the tank values? I feel like this may shift your weighting considerably, and it's not an insignificant part of raid tanking.
Limerick Goblin I don't think it's as big as you might think, like in Legion raids there was maybe 1 boss at most that you would argue mobility made any Impact and there are easy ways around it. It's not going to make you reroll to another tank for mobility or I'd hope not 😅😂
If having a gorefiends grasp for that once-per-expansion encounter is worth 0.25 of a point, then being able to leap across a raid platform definitely counts for something. Mobility is enormous, just look at mythic varimathras -- tanks with leaps or rolls trivialize the disease mechanic, where a paladin or death knight could not handle it.
Yeah mobility is a minimal consideration inside progress raiding, and even then every tank has some kind of option for that - even Death Knights can make themselves immune to knocks now if you are thinking about KJ
Limerick Goblin I get that but that's my point. There is 1 raid boss 2 at most per raid where it becomes something at best and even then there are ways around it it's not a consistent enough factor to consider your main tank. I mean it might to you but the majority there are ways around it easily
I agree it's a small consideration, but I suppose I'd just rate it higher than certain other valued ratings in the video. Of course you can work around having low mobility, but you can work around having no grip or having no self sustain -- but the value of a tank is in how much they bring as a single package.
Great content as always Sco.
Great video, while I disagree a few points, most of them are solid. That's the beauty of diversity isn't? Every Core has their own comp. GL on your race!
Warr being so low makes me sad :(
Hope for 8.1
Get a grip, Blizz!
You and me both
When the boss is hitting for 40% of your HP, LoH is sadly not very helpful, and neither is HotP on a GCD. He's talking about progression raiding only.
Ive heard warriors actually in a decent spot 2nd 3d best
You get a grip! A titan grip! Fury time!
Thanks, great video, Awaiting your M+ ranking
Looking forward to the mythic+ video
Great video!
Hi SCO, great video thanks so much. I'm looking forward to all your upcoming videos.
Love the layout, good choice, thanks for the great breakdown.
Another awesome Vid! Have to agree with your assessment on the druid. Good mitigation but they took away the one cooldown that added choice to the spec. Look forward to seeing how the expansion plays out and which tank you choose to go with :D
Thank you for the video! I'm a main monk player and still bouncing the idea of going brew or windwalker, just because it's easier to get into groups I think I will go brew which is what I played at the end of legion, the playstyle is very similar to legion and the gdc changes doesn't seem to affect it that much like warriors. I hear you on the vengance demon hunter but the playstyle is very fun and satisfying leaping around all over the place.
Loved the video Sco, to the point and informative as always.
Any suggestions on videos for melee dps and range dps rankings in bfa?
You missed some of DH mitigation. Gluttony, consuming a soul fragment has a chance to activate metamorphosis for 5 seconds. Void Reaver reduces all damage by 6% to enemies hit with soul cleave. Demon spikes is more of a burst damage skill like shield block.
The definitive list of tanks ranked for BFA. This is my base and will be rolling Monk.
Great vid as always just sad to see DH not shining again for M+ raids. But, looking forward to your M instance video. Keep up the work man
Impending Victory being a 20% heal is fantastic. The cooldown is completely negligible in dungeons as well as there are many opportunities to last-hit things and time between pulls for cooldowns.
Anything cooldown-based is perfectly OK in everything except maybe raids, and even then it can help pick up the slack during the rougher phases in raids so long as your healers are competent. Especially with the complete lack of secondary stats right now, playing around cooldown abilities is probably A-OK in general.
thanks for the info sco much appreciated as always
welcome man, thanks for watching!
Sco , Bullturd here I`d like to start off with thanking you for time and efforts you put in to these great tools "Videos" you provide us players in the community Like always well thought out and i would agree with you on the final thoughts of standings , I do wish Warrior would have been a bit stronger like in my past raiding days of playing a Prot Warrior for 13 years , Legion brought me to Guardian and tho its boring I do like the fact i out live my raid team lol . again TYVM bud and best of luck in BFA
Good job! Great video! 10/10
I personally would have weighted the utility aspect a bit higher because even though utility is niche, when it’s used correctly it is VERY powerful. This probably does become much more niche at world first raiding, but great video nonetheless!
Brewmaster for life, since MoP. I miss the MoP style but it was ridiculous heh. I plan to play all the tanks in BFA. My main is a Brewmaster though, cheers for the video.
I really hope you do another one of these videos after any balance passes happen in the near future. (Assuming they're planning one). Also Azerite gear might change some of this I'm guessing.
Monk master raceeeeee baby?!! Love the video.
The choice of music tho :o amazing.
Dang, I was indecisive if I should level my Demon Hunter or a Monk in BFA for my alt, not necessarily for tanking, but for all specs. I think this video helped me decide. I like playing demon hunter for damage and monk for healing, but I always tank with friends as an off-spec. Looks like I'm bringing my monk into bfa, but after I level my main, which is going to be the mage. Thanks for the insightful video.
I think VDH should be higher, Firery Brand is a 40% damage reduction (all types) on a 1m cd. When you tank swap you have it up nearly every time you're actively tanking and it fits perfectly in the windows when DS is down. I would also argue that the tank's mobility should count for some utility as it allows you to position the boss better than some other tanks can. I'm not saying they should be #1 but there is no way they are #6.
So, I loved the video and I have been waiting for it for a few weeks now. I do think that druids look a bit high, I suspect that once more people start playing we will see those numbers change a bit. With paladin and DK moving up on the list and druids falling. I've seen some people say DH is too low, but I agree with SCO that I would rather not progress on a tank like a DH. The Mythic plus list will change this list too, don't forget we will all be gearing up in 5mans and if you have trouble completing a key it will lower your gear score, making tanking harder. DH will be high on that list as they are the kings of 5mans, giving a bit more value then he is showing. I didn't really care for the rating system, it is kind of contrived and the same logic wasn't always used on things like utility values. Ultimately the only surprise was how high the druid are valued, so I don't entirely disagree with SCO's conclusions. I wish they would fix warriors :(.
Cheers for the overview (y)
Not much have changed in the aspect of rankings from Legion.
As for m+ I also beleive we will see blood (>) and vengeance on top.
"Utility, I'll have to give it a 6.74 out of 19.12"
YAY! You did make the video! Thanks!
Glad i re rolled monk 😂 quality video as always Lad, love it! See you on the leaderboards in BFA ;)
THANKS SCO, FINALLY!
Hi, can you explain why your magic mitigation score have maximum 6 and none of the tanks scores 6? same about utility. What the baseline here?
I wonder about the scaling with the new traits and raid/mythic+ gear, but I do think the mechanics of both druid & monk will result in both scaling very well. I keep my druid geared for mid-range myth+ content for guildies who want to run weekly 15s for their chests, so it's nice to see the class showing well in mitigation even though I think the damage is too low currently.
As someone who loves DH tanking, I’m just really sad they haven’t done a whole lot to make us competitive in the progress raiding scene.
I am relieved after watching this video everyone kept telling me Guardian was going to be bad
As a guardian druid main tank, I couldn't agree more with you on what to expect with the spec in raiding. They are boring, strong, and easy to play. Guardian brings cool utility to m+ in terms of CC and survivability. I am looking forward to seeing your impression on them for pushing keys and their ranking in the meta.
Great video, Sco! I recently rolled a monk myself and am having a bunch of fun with it. I always assumed monks would be lame/boring, but i was wrong for sure. Brewmaster and Windwalker are great fun!
no secondaries on the Azerite armor is not the reason for lower secondaries, the heart of azeroth has over 4 items of secondaries. It is do to secondary stat scaling, it is a flat increase per item level, vs. in Legion it is an exponential % scaling like main stat.
As a DK main I’d put a 4 or 5 for magic seeing how it doesn’t reduce damage it negates it.
Very useful. thanks for the research. good video.
I've been waiting for this video since other non-sco TH-camrs have been posting theirs.
I wonder if Blizzard will ever realize that giving tanks cds that forces them to go through gaps of taking unmitigated damage isn’t exactly a good thing for a tank
Thanks Sco great analysis
0.25/1.5 for grip and mass grip seems kinda low. It does indeed depend on the specific fight, rendering it useless sometimes but in some occasions it trivializes otherwise annoying or hard to deal mechanics. Solid and well put video.
Sele1908 yeah 0.25 just to put dk and pala same overall it’s norma good method to ranking tanks imo
yeah the scoring was definitely tweaked a bit to position the tanks where I believe they stood overall, however grip/mass grip is really niche - its either v useful or not at all so who knows how to score it properly.
Hey sco great vid and I for the most part agree with everything u said here with how the tanks r going to play in bfa and about bear tanks being super ez and boring and I main a bear so ya not happy but at least I can still raid lead 😁 keep up the good work man here's to hoping warriors and demon hunter get buffed for raiding so we can all play something more fun
Now I see why Mage tower is removed. With the tank changes alone it's impossible to do as it was designed for a different game vision
And reworking Mage tower will take insane amount of work
I main a VDH and he has some important points. We cannot keep our AM up all the time like Guardians and Monks, on top of having the worst Tank CD (at L120 Meta gives as much armour as half Demon Spikes). Look by another angle: try to think of a boss damage profile where a VDH plus 5 healers beat a Monk plus 5 healers.See?
Just started thinking about this, then I thought about what you would play. Then I just googled which tank is sco going to be playing in BFA haha :D
I subscribed, I need that mythic+ video!
thanks for the support bud!
Good job. Thanks!
Id rate druid’s self-healing 2/3. Frenzied Regen combined with Guardian of Elune is still pretty decent IMO
Hi Sco! Thank you very much for the tank rankings for raiding and mythic +. The decision on what to tank with in BFA is still so hard. I have one question though, on both videos you have ranked Warriors (seems to be my favourite tank atm) fairly low, however in most of your videos you are using your warrior. My question is this, do you consider the warrior a viable tank when it comes to mythic+ and raiding even with its low ranking?
I am trying many different tanks and I keep on coming back to want to play the warrior
looking forward to the mythic+ rankings. im trying to decide what to main for bfa sincei will have limited time to play i wanna get a overall good choice
btw. you have mystic vitality basically baseline now as brewmasters... they removed the talent but they buffed the baseline stagger against magic damage
Yeah I know that, but it's still worse than Legion - isnt it 40% in Legion rn before Mystic and in BFA it's 35% with no option of Mystic?
Nice video man
What do you think some changes would be to make warrior tanks be the best ?
Nice video! Sad that im tihnking about playing vengence :( You didnt mention monk taunt under utility. Speeding up an add/boss can be a great dps increase. You just didnt think about it or it is not worth mentioning? (Fallen avatar p2 ;)
i have seen some inconsistency on utility rank
DH and Monk for what you have said are not different but monk got 0.5 and dh 0.25, another point you have mention alot utility for Paladin and gave him 0.5 but for Warrior you gave 1 and metion only 2 buff(Rallying Cry is OP but Battle Shout you can put at the same weigh for Monk and DH in raid composition).
The Rank without utility is:
DH 11
War 11
Pala 12
Dk 12.25
Druid 14
Monk 15
I know there is more aspects to talk and you can even try to put situational stuffs (mobility/grip/mass silence...) but is your Rank and you problably know what you talking about.
Thank you for the video man, is good to see your opinion about the topic.
I just wish that Guardian Druids were more fun to play in BFA... I had a decent bit of fun messing around with that Arcane build in Legion, and would have liked to see some variation like that in BFA too.
yeah same man
Seeing as the raids aren't open yet, there's no way to predict how much magic damage the fights are going to have. On fights with little to no magic damage, there's no way that magic mitigation is going to have twice as much weight as self-sustain.
Dungeon journal is available for all bosses, and a lot of boss testing has been open on each boss - including the last one.
Iirc the AM buff for dks is actually a small buff that follows the use of Death Strike. It's tooltip is "recently used Death Strike." this is what bosses mechanics check against for AM. Marrow rend is also a sort of active mitigation (more like passive imo, since its stacks you bank), just saying that bosses check against Death Strike for things like Molten Crash(NL), Vengeful Shear(BRH),etc. So while you will have some sort of AM(or at least pass. mit.) up 100% of the time, the actual AM mechanic check uptime is dependent on your DS frequency, not Bone Shield stacks.
another edit: it seems bloodshield is also an AM, so even if you didnt DS recently, any amount of piddly BLOOD shield will stop the check. marrowrend(and it's buff, bone shield) defintely doesnt atm however.
Or has that changed in BFA?
edited for clarity
There wasn't a single raid boss in legion that checked for AM if my memory serves me right, mostly because you are supposed to know what you are doing and most raid mechanics will probably kill you if you don't.
Dungeons had this as a sort of "tutorial" aspect to teach you to use AM at the right times.
Blood shield is getting a buff but having it up at any specific time isn't feasible because it dissapears surprisingly quick.
Marrowrend also counts as AM for like 3 seconds after using it if I remember correctly.
I was going to switch my main to either a paladin or warrior tank, but to be honest after reading up on BfA and watching some videos i don't think i'll bother i was a Warrior tank for a couple of expansions but sadly i don't think i'll go back now.
Only thing I disagree with is Paladin Utility score, why so low, it doesn't give a raid buff but those can be recieved through inscription, the blessings are so strong not only on the pally itself but also for clutch instances on other players in the raid.
I really dont like the active uptime issues. Having some tanks with better and some tanks worse is kind of scary. It reminds me of early Wrath when DK had 1 minute wall.
i have to disagree with the monk being on top cause while stagger does smooth out the damage it dosen't actually lower the damage like other tanks.
God bless you beautiful tank man, thank you for this video!
For paladin utility do you not feel the amount of extra interrupt with shield procs doesn't weigh in much in progression group simply because at that level Interrupt rotations and such shouldn't be a problem?
So... one question i'd still like to ask... what are you gonna main in bfa? Back to the roots and go prot warrior, or druid? Like your ranking and toughts and like anything tank related from your side anyway :D but that question still bugs me
Wow about the warrior's self sustain I feel that only fury has a lovely self heal, while you have to spec into impending victory inorder to have a false hope of self healing. I mean thanks for at least speaking up about the general problem who I feel with both prot, and arms warrior.
Did you and Noah build the UI together? Actually thought about picking up your UI for my tank alts, although I find RedtuzukUI to be best.
Coming back after a year break deciding to tank. Went with a DH, of course they’re literally the worst. Great, just fucking amazing.
About paladin tank and active mitigation uptime. If i noticed correctly from the gameplay shown above, casting Judgement still reduces the current recharge of Shield of the Righteous by 2 ,or 4 seconds on a critical strike. In that case, shouldn't the rating be a bit higher? If the Judgement cd is still unchanged and 6 seconds, that means every shield of the Righteous charge would have a 2 second lower cd anyway (assuming that you can cast judgement on cd everytime ofc). This will also be greatly influenced by haste ofc, but you stated that in your vid.
Sadly I didn't have the possibility to play beta myself so that's why I'm asking
Yes Judgement still works like that, it doesn't solve the gaps in AM though. The gameplay footage was taken from an early alpha build for Paladin btw - it's just random background footage I could find :D
Awesome :) Still going to play protadin hoping it'll work out when i'm getting some decent haste :D
In most of Antorus bosses you are only tanking half the time. Why is there such a big focus on the 100% uptime on mitigation? Wouldnt it be better to have a tank with 50% uptime on strong mitigation rather than 100% on small mitigation?
Do you have any information about necessity of DK's grips and Guardian Druid's roar on BFA first raid? Like KJ and aggramar did. I think grips and roar are important to choosing raid tanks(although they got nerfed), but you set UTILITY max score just only 1.5.
I've been waiting for your opinion
Still sticking with my warrior. Haven't main changed at all since I made my Tauren in Vanilla.....but still enjoy watching your ranks every new expansion. =)
Warrior is fun to play, been having a good time with it on BFA beta which you might have seen on stream - just a few small things that can be annoying like so many abilities being on GCD!
Hey nice video you did here, are you going to upload a similar one for m+?
Currently a MW main with a BDK tank "second"? Pretty sure I'll be sticking with BDK in bfa, because it's the only tank spec that I find interesting, but I might try out BrM. It's something I've been meaning to do for a while now.
I switched my bear to kitty in legion because it was just too boring for me, and if it's getting even less involved, I can pretty much say I won't be playing it. Sad, because I loved tanking on the druid in Wrath enough that I switched it to my main for cata and really enjoyed it.
I do have a second paly that I've decided will be prot, but mainly for lower end stuff, nothing more serious than lfr or maybe normal, and mainly dungeons. Prot paly seems fun as an aside, but not something I could ever devote to as a main.
I hate vengeance.... I started out legion loving vengeance, and was pretty close to maining it, but the more I played it, the more I despised it.... not really sure why. At any rate, what I've played of havoc on beta is enough to convince me that my DHs will be havoc.
My warrior is fury... I've never been much of a fan of warrior. She sat in that icy cold starting zone for years, stuck as a level 12, never getting played, until I saw the reworked animations for legion fury, so I used my free boost on her. Whenever I've played prot warrio, I find myself thinking "is this really all there is?" Not like "I don't have what I need to tank" but more of a "where are the abilities?" And with devastator being so strong, it made it even worse.
monks are looking really good as a whole this expansion. It's crazy. MW being one of the best healers, BrM being an amazing tank, and WW are pretty solid over all. Yet, still, hardly anyone plays them. I wish bears had a few changes. HP buff, FR maybe having a reduced recharge by 2 seconds or increase the healing by 6% or so, thrash having a snare,and they'd be solid imo for m+ but currently, they feel rather mediocre. At least they got a aoe damage buff. I sorta feel the scoring is a bit off point wise on some classes or the usefulness like Self sustained should matter a bit more imo. at least 5 points or 6.
What add-on are you using for the nameplate/ennemi health , during your Demon Hunter segment
Shouldve mentioned that feral druids bring roar as an option, like you did the veng debuff etc
An additional Roar is not the same as having another DH - multiple roars can be used throughout a fight, and you will always find uses for them to increase movement hence raid DPS/survivability. That and I am not used to having a Feral in raids! :D
Method Sco will wait to see the range and if its too small. Like in legion ferals roar was useless.