Very happy that so many people were excited for this video! Plenty more content coming just like this included the long awaited UI UPDATE VIDEO! So be sure to hit the LIKE button if you're excited for it and SUBSCRIBE to never miss out. Thank you all so much for the support, I know BFA is going to be the best expansion yet for content and I can't wait to be uploading.
Method Sco nooooo warrior!!!! Whatever, still maining a warrior in bfa. What r u maining in bfa? I'm sure one of the tier 1 tanks. Great video and thanks for ur opinion.
Hey Sco, thank you for this vid, you did an excellent job over here! Mind if I ask you: any chance for a THROUGHOUT guide for ALL the classes on the Method site? (you guys started a similar project in 7.1.5 and continued in 7.2, but only for a handful of classes, and they weren't updated in the latest patch) Would be great! Keep up the good work ;)
Hi, Sco. I would love to see some tips and tricks for M+ Tanking in BFA. You could even make it a series where you explain through gameplay how to tank and what expect in certain dungeons. Also, great video again. Thanks!
I'm glad you decided to rank Mythic+ and Raids separately. I also love how you evaluate all available options and stick to your grading system for rankings, and not giving in to any kind of bias from a meta.
Nicely done. I enjoyed it. It seems I disagree with others who gave you feedback on the previous video regarding the weighting of different categories, as I preferred different weightings depending on environment. Yes, I know it's a bit more complicated and makes it less intuitive, but I also find it to be more accurate. Example: Mitigation really is extremely important for progress raiding. It's second to none. Personally, I feel the same actually goes for utility in M+, where it's all about the tool kit as long as you can survive the damage without too much trouble. At 120, such an emphasis would likely shift things slightly towards the DH at this point, putting the BDK in 2nd, but it's obviously hard to predict how it all turns out.
Seems like if you want to do both raids and M+ at a reasonably high level, choose a Monk, DK or Pally. If you only care about raiding, a druid will be fine, and if you only care about M+, a DH will be good. And just don't choose a warrior no matter what. Makes me sad, I mained a prot warrior from vanilla until legion but finally gave up and switched to a druid in legion.
Progress guild on my realm had a Warrior tank and he was able to take big hits alongside our Monk. When you have good healers I feel it shouldn't be to much of a problem to just focus on mitigation, but I can't blame you for feeling there are better options.
You're right in the sense that the gap isn't so large as to make any of the tanks unplayable. But at the same time, why force the healers to cover up the fact that a class is sub par at its job. That in turn forces other people to play better as to not need healing so more can go to that tank, and so on and so forth.
Well, at the time, going into Legion (not talking about BfA here) it was because I already had a leveled and geared druid that I had tanked some with in WoD, so it was a easy transition to get away from the warrior. And Monks weren't better than druids for raids in Legion, at least not at the start. Monks did catch up later on but were still considered 2nd to druids or tied with them. Also at that time, M+ was brand new and wasn't something I considered when making the change. Going into BfA though, monk looks like the best overall choice.
While I like the idea, this would be one of the talents that isn't really an option. Either all 3 talents in the row would need to be stupidly powerful, or you just wouldn't have any choice. And in the latter scenario, I think it'd be better to just have it baseline, or not at all.
Since when is having a "mandatory talent" a problem for Blizzard? I main a shadow priest. We basically never respecced before this prepatch unless we were doing trivial content.
Also does noone remember banner warriors?!! Since when has self sustain been a crux to a solid progression tank? I genuinely don’t understand blizzards current view of tanks. You want to remove their current ability to mitigate magic damage yet somehow self healing is still an validation for viability. No offense to healers but doesn’t this kind of devalue their role? A tanks primary focus is to hold Aggro and basically govern the ebb and flow of a raid. Since when does how much they can freakin heal themselves dictate their viability!?!! Signed, The Ramblings of a veteran tank.
The more a tank self heals, the more time a healer can focus on the more important elements of m+, like doing damage. Aside from that, there are points when a healer might have to LoS an incoming attack, or heal incoming party-wide damage. If the tank needs a ton of constant attention, it will be tough for healers to find a chance to do other important things.
Tricky thing to rank, once the tanks get closer together in strength and utility you might find it's about their group makeup and what 'holes' they plug. DH and DK so close on this list it might come down to what healer they are playing with and the utility from the DPS.
Hey, Blizzard. Since we can't heal and we have to compete with virtually every class in the game for the dps role, how about you reconsider our place on the tanking scale? Sincerely, a warrior main since vanilla.
I agree with you, but Death knight has very few interupts/stuns/silence I find Veng Demon Hunter is better because he has a grip, a stun, a silence, and a fear! plus, the cc cage! and that's what makes Demon Hunter so good in mythic + and about the healing, if you got good healer you won't need Death strike that much, also DH self-healing is so good by the way
As a previous Prot Warrior main of 4 years recently converted into a Blood DK since ToS, I am happy that my change is once again completely validated lol.
I am gona main Guardian Druid in BFA... from what I feel right now, he can survive a lot and dmg buff they gave him to trash and swipe is pretty decent... He may still be slightly worse than other tanks, but I find him fun to play so I will try to make for that weakness... Blizz is making updates with patches so we never know who is gona get buffed, nerfed or changed later thats why it is most important to play what we like... Great video btw :).
Thanks Sco!!!! wish you would have talked more about how devastating is for some tanks to lose the legendary traits and how once you hit 116 the game play for tanks slows quite a bit. Most classes feel like they are more fun to play till 116.
after having tried out the tanks I was considering rolling, the DK is out for me. the loss of "Tremble Before me" just makes the playstyle so much worse in my opinion. that talent was very nice as it turned your death & Decay into a CC ability and I felt more in control of large packs than I do now. Demon hunter still feels great and I'm sure monk is also fantastic, but I haven't tried it out yet after the 8.0 changes, but I'm sure they are fine. So I'm maybe only leveling up 2 tanks in BFA. I'm at a loss why they removed Tremble before me, it was so useful.
@xLegendaryLPx "Also if we aren't at the top we can only get better". False. Just cuz you're not at the top doesn't mean you can't go down even further.
Thanks for the video Sco! I wasn't really sure what to pick going into this expansion - it's looking like my M+ team will need a tank and by what you've said it looks like DH will be the one I pick. Cheers! - Llabnala
+Method Sco same I really enjoy the rage management play style of prot warrior. Just a little bit of self-sustain please and make it on par with even just the Paladin and I’ll be happy. I’m levelling a Paladin at the moment for that reason. I just like shield tanks.
Well, as a Prot Warrior, looks like I'm just gonna be not tanking end-game content for the time being. I was already looking into experiencing this expansion as a DPS or perhaps heals (wanted Priest but Shadow's not looking too hot), so my beloved main, warrior, being the least desired tank in a group just made the choice clear. I don't know if Blizz think that they're maintaining uniqueness of classes by not bringing warriors to parity. I tanked through legion and I'm sure it's still doable in BfA of course but it's just really annoying to not have the factor of being an amazing tank due to class. Having said that, knowing what one is doing gets appreciated and if played really well, warriors will still get recognition, but why not have an easier time of it by just tanking as a monk instead of fighting an uphill battle? Release Classic so I can bask in the warrior's spotlight once again... and probably be constantly reminded of how warriors couldn't get it up in Retail.
Ardanaut it does suck that warriors have been shoved to the curb this xpac. I’ve mained port from classic to legion and finally switched to my DK for BFA. Prot warriors were once such amazing tanks but blizz I guess hates them. Classic is going to be fun when people see what prot warriors truly can be.
Grr it would figure that Warriors are bottom of the pack again... I have one of each class of tank, and although I like bits of all of them Warrior is still my favorite tank in terms of play experience. We will see if the upcoming buff helps balance things out. Having main tanked on my warrior since wrath, I would really appreciate warriors being competitive for endgame content -_-
Interesting, thanks for that video. I main a Prot War usually, but I'm going to switch this time around. Levelling a Monk to get the hang of it, and I already have a VDH. I'm not sure about the DH, though. That mitigation score, which seems confirmed by most discussions around the tanking DH spec, is scary. In very good hands, with an opti party, I feel like the DH could be very strong, but for clunkier group composition I fear it might become a liability. Basically, high risk high reward, I guess. But living on the edge like that, any rebalancing pass could make it fall hard. Not to mention I hated the gameplay and was bored to death each and everytime I played that char. I also have a 'young' DK. Could try leveling it. Choose what toon will ultimately become my main when the actual expansion hits. Not a fan of the class fantasy, though. Monk seems to be the "default" choice for me ( not to mention we are leaning toward a mostly physical party ), but I can't ignore that amazing self sustain on the BDK. Decisions, decisions !
hey great videos! I am a total newb, how are the classes ranked so differently between raids and m+? Also shouldnt we bring in the amount of dps the tanks bring to the table (i know it is not the primary role but extra deps helps a lot) or is this to marginal between all tanks to even bring it up?
I can't help but feel that paladin should at least be no. 2 or 3 because of almost all their utility can be used on others, and their heal as well can be used on others. They fill a unique roll in regards to all their abilities that can be used on anyone. But as you say Sco, it is hard to rank them before the expansion even launched.
I’m levelling a Paladin for the first time at the moment and it’s crazy how many abilities they have and the utility that comes with that. Especially with Tauren with group stun racial as well as the ST stun that already comes with Paladin.
Hey Sco, thanks for your insight! Will you share your WeakAuras and ELVui setup for tanks like you did for Legion? I, and i believe a lot of others, found them very useful and would be grateful if you could do it for BfA as well. Edit: Just saw your other comment, looking forward for your UI!
I'm not sure what to go for... Demon hunter or Monk. but looking at both of these videos, monk looks to be the best option since it is Tier 2 for Mythic + and top spot for raiding. that said I will be leveling 3 tanks, which I have decided will be Monk, Demon hunter and Death knight. So I should be good for all sorts of content. the only bad thing to say about the death knight is it's lack of mobility, but we do have 2 movement abilities now if you talent into wraith walk, so it might not be so bad.
I'd give a 6/10 or 7/10 for utility to Blood due to how much the gorefiend's grasp's range was nerfed,but that's not going to knock them off their top spot of course,the ranking for all classes in general is solid and accurate though Don't get me wrong,even if GG was nerfed,it doesn't mean it's bad or even not the best utility for m+,I just feel like it should be still kept in mind
Doesn't feel nerfed to be honest... I think the biggest thing Blizzard can do is find a way to reward people for interrupting or just make it more obvious that it's a good thing. I shouldn't be responsible for interrupting casters or gripping them to get them into the death ball...
Realy good job, thanks a lot!! But i think damage shouldn't be grouped with usefull abilities. I guess damage is important enough to be a separate point for discussion when we are talking about mythic+.
Echt gutes Viedeo und ich kann dir da nur zustimmen. Danke Sco Really good video and I can only agree with you. Thanks, Sco Pittyplâtsch - Antonnidas EU
It was better with the rankings having different weights I think. I even think the list would have come out differently if you did. I just dont see all the stats equalizing out like this
I just wish there was 120 premade characters so you could play with the azerite traits. Some of the traits seem pretty nice. Masterful instincts for Guardian gives you a minor defensive boost after SI is over for 10 secs, which is quite long, or gory regeneration makes Frenzied regen much stronger. IE, you can pair Gory Regeneration with Incarn and extend your Frenzied Regen quite a while. Is it enough to move guardian up for dungeon tanking? Probably not, but would be interesting with play around with regardless.
well, it's no surprise you can't actually trust this 100% anymore, since there's changes.. Btw, it's a great guide, easy to understand and everything. but, I got one question.. Why not put mobility into this? That's a 5th crucial thing you gotta plan ahead.. Especially in mythics, it's important how fast the tank can come from point A to point B, or if a group member is being targeted etc. Ofc, it shouldn't be any surprise to anybody, that Demon Hunters should have 10/10 in mobility, since we're the kings of mobility xD
An expansion may come when prot warrior doesn't rank at the bottom for all content... but not this expansion! (Are we paying reparations for vanilla still?)
Why is mass grip alone worth 8 utility points, when veng brings it too, along with silence, fear, a single target CC (infested is the first season's affix), better kiting, and 5% magic damage debuff? Just feels odd that all that is only worth 2 points.
Monk utter lack of self heals puts them at the bottom of the list imo. This list suggests the healer you will be running with has any knowledge of what they're doing and won't get overwhelmed if you go under 90% hp.
i would love these vids for dps and healers also. im struggling ALOT atm to finding a main since i will have less time to play. i want a clas si enjoy all speccs on and be decent in the eyes of the community cause i will be in the pug world for a bit and playing anything other then then "best" is not viable
As someone who pugs m+ quite a bit and has mained shadow priest this entire xpac, it really depends on the group. Sure, I got declined more than I would've if I were a good spec, but once you establish a decent score, people start inviting you based on that despite your spec.
You can still be trash if you play the best spec... I don't invite on spec unless it's healer or tank and even then you check their score if it's a high key. DPS you always check their score because a class that may not be the best but knows how to play is 10x more valuable than a dead "best class" DPS. I haven't seen Sco cover DPS stuff by the way, for that I look to Preacher.
The puq world will consume wastly more time, also they are more into flavor of the month classes. My recomendation try to find a proper raid guild and be considered a social. You should be able to join from time to time with those guys who are dedicated in the approach and leav you left with more free time :D I was twinking the past couple of month and tried a few m+ and raids with pugs and it was hell in comparison. To be more accurate in the time it took me to get one party m+12HoV together and finishing it, I did 2 with my guild on +16 :D Not to mention the raids which take 1:30-2h longer. You should be able to have a good exp as : Warlock Warrior Monk Mage
The issue is, most of my raiding guild's members just do their +15 and call it a week. If you're talking about ~15 keys, your spec doesn't matter at all. I enjoy pushing higher keys, and those are when people have a reason to get a bit picky on spec.
while i agree with most of the placements, not including damage in this ranking seems like a major oversight. most if not all top mythic plus teams are taking DH over DK now because of the insane damage and utility, your tanks in mythic plus have to be capable of putting out massive damage and DH is far ahead of DK in that regard.
I do not agree with druid tank being so low, i prefer to heal druid instead of other tanks in beta since it's more predictable when it comes to taking dmg and druid dmg taken is smoother than any other tanks right now.
Glad I got all my mage tower appearances for my DK because apparently we will remain relevant in BFA. Was really worried with some of the things I was hearing that we were being nerfed into the ground.
all tanks are very much viable, it's just a matter of preferred tanks to push the highest keys, but if you're really good at warrior and terrible at DK, obviously you will push higher with the warrior, so really, play what you want :)
You did some good work on the video, but this scoring system is horrible. You should have continued using something like what you used for your raid tank ranking video, just changed the importance of the different categories. You should also have damage as a category for the M+ rankings, it is less important but still a significant factor.
WARRIOR IN TIER 3 I FEEL ATTACKED. Jk. I enjoyed the video, but putting Prot Warr in tier 3 is kinda harsh. Their mobility/utility alone should put them in Tier 2 minimum. Even with the victory rush nerf It’s still going to be used from pack to pack and possibly even multiple times per encounter. I don’t think Self Sustain should even really be a major factor in Mythic + due to the fact that it’s not the tanks job to heal. Hold Aggro and Mitigate. 10% AP, Int/Demo Shout, Shockwave, Avatar (which breaks some cc/roots) Intervene
Soon (tm) Hopefully before BFA I also try to reply to comments whenever I have a minute free, but with so many comments it becomes a little overwhelming. Whenever I'm streaming I always try to answer questions though so that's probably the best route of contract for Q&A
the dmg is only insane bc you have gloves for an additional 20% extra aoe thunderclap dmg. Right now in Legion its broken, yeah. But on lvl 120 its not
BFA DK Tier 1 seems a little optimistic. Its low threat generation along with the missing mobility doesnt allow for agressive kite-pulls like a dh is capable of with ease. Its nowhere even near to the beast it was in Legion with BiS Gear. I'd probably rank it close to brewie, behind Pals and Dhs as Tier1.
Michael Moormann it may seem like that now but it's the beginning of the expansion, all of our gear isn't that great and blood will have low haste and versatility.Also blood is one of the best threat generating tanks due to the fact that blood boil is free and on two charges and it's puts a dot on the target Which helps with threat generation. unlike let's say prot warrior with thunder clap that's on a long cd or prot pally with consecration.It's very Similar to DH infernal leap with flame crash in comparison with blood boil. I'm not trying to say ur wronge cause ur not blood is struggling because of the lack of secondary stats, but once blood goes through a couple of raid tiers it'll be very strong again since it's so dependent on secondary stats. Plus in mythic + self sustain is King which prot pally, brewmaster, warrior, and druid lack because it's not built into there mitigation like blood or vengeance. Ty!!!
DH can eat ass just like Monk... They need to either buff everyone's mobility or Nerf those two because the term "wheelchair" classes shouldn't be a thing. Salt aside it's nice to see Blizzard not overreacting and nerfing them into the ground. I remember how quickly Blizz turned on DK's in Cata and how shit they felt comparatively. If I had been able to get into the whole idea of playing a DH then maybe I'd be a bit more enthusiastic but something just didn't feel right about them.
OspreyBravo18 Welp unlike most people that only play them because of the blatant hype train, I main Vengeance because I felt a burning demonic savior felt like my personality. And I understand the whole thing with the dk bro, we've aaaall been screwed by them in Wrath lol. So the salt is warranted.
Very happy that so many people were excited for this video! Plenty more content coming just like this included the long awaited UI UPDATE VIDEO! So be sure to hit the LIKE button if you're excited for it and SUBSCRIBE to never miss out.
Thank you all so much for the support, I know BFA is going to be the best expansion yet for content and I can't wait to be uploading.
Method Sco nooooo warrior!!!! Whatever, still maining a warrior in bfa. What r u maining in bfa? I'm sure one of the tier 1 tanks. Great video and thanks for ur opinion.
Hey Sco, thank you for this vid, you did an excellent job over here! Mind if I ask you: any chance for a THROUGHOUT guide for ALL the classes on the Method site? (you guys started a similar project in 7.1.5 and continued in 7.2, but only for a handful of classes, and they weren't updated in the latest patch) Would be great!
Keep up the good work ;)
Do you see a solution to balancing the M+ tanks without nerfing blood dk or reducing it's toolkit?
Hi, Sco. I would love to see some tips and tricks for M+ Tanking in BFA. You could even make it a series where you explain through gameplay how to tank and what expect in certain dungeons.
Also, great video again.
Thanks!
ty man for all the vids! :D
I'm glad you decided to rank Mythic+ and Raids separately. I also love how you evaluate all available options and stick to your grading system for rankings, and not giving in to any kind of bias from a meta.
Nicely done. I enjoyed it. It seems I disagree with others who gave you feedback on the previous video regarding the weighting of different categories, as I preferred different weightings depending on environment. Yes, I know it's a bit more complicated and makes it less intuitive, but I also find it to be more accurate.
Example: Mitigation really is extremely important for progress raiding. It's second to none.
Personally, I feel the same actually goes for utility in M+, where it's all about the tool kit as long as you can survive the damage without too much trouble. At 120, such an emphasis would likely shift things slightly towards the DH at this point, putting the BDK in 2nd, but it's obviously hard to predict how it all turns out.
Seems like if you want to do both raids and M+ at a reasonably high level, choose a Monk, DK or Pally. If you only care about raiding, a druid will be fine, and if you only care about M+, a DH will be good. And just don't choose a warrior no matter what. Makes me sad, I mained a prot warrior from vanilla until legion but finally gave up and switched to a druid in legion.
Progress guild on my realm had a Warrior tank and he was able to take big hits alongside our Monk. When you have good healers I feel it shouldn't be to much of a problem to just focus on mitigation, but I can't blame you for feeling there are better options.
You're right in the sense that the gap isn't so large as to make any of the tanks unplayable. But at the same time, why force the healers to cover up the fact that a class is sub par at its job. That in turn forces other people to play better as to not need healing so more can go to that tank, and so on and so forth.
Why play a druid over a monk for raiding? monk beats druid in both m+ and raiding atm
Well, at the time, going into Legion (not talking about BfA here) it was because I already had a leveled and geared druid that I had tanked some with in WoD, so it was a easy transition to get away from the warrior. And Monks weren't better than druids for raids in Legion, at least not at the start. Monks did catch up later on but were still considered 2nd to druids or tied with them. Also at that time, M+ was brand new and wasn't something I considered when making the change. Going into BfA though, monk looks like the best overall choice.
This is mostly for people really pushing hard in mythic+ so playing a warrior/druid should still be fine
Feels great to be a blood dk. Good for raiding and top tier for m+. Thx Sco.
So glad that acquiring my weapon appearances weren't for nothing.
Nah I stick with my Monk and Warlock :D Succubus and Beer I will be happy :P
I wish they would of done anything to bring up those prot warriors. Thanks for the video, maybe they will get a come back in future raid tiers.
I feel like if they made the legendary bracer ability a talent, it could make warriors drastically more viable.
While I like the idea, this would be one of the talents that isn't really an option. Either all 3 talents in the row would need to be stupidly powerful, or you just wouldn't have any choice. And in the latter scenario, I think it'd be better to just have it baseline, or not at all.
Since when is having a "mandatory talent" a problem for Blizzard? I main a shadow priest. We basically never respecced before this prepatch unless we were doing trivial content.
Also does noone remember banner warriors?!! Since when has self sustain been a crux to a solid progression tank? I genuinely don’t understand blizzards current view of tanks. You want to remove their current ability to mitigate magic damage yet somehow self healing is still an validation for viability. No offense to healers but doesn’t this kind of devalue their role? A tanks primary focus is to hold Aggro and basically govern the ebb and flow of a raid. Since when does how much they can freakin heal themselves dictate their viability!?!!
Signed,
The Ramblings of a veteran tank.
The more a tank self heals, the more time a healer can focus on the more important elements of m+, like doing damage. Aside from that, there are points when a healer might have to LoS an incoming attack, or heal incoming party-wide damage. If the tank needs a ton of constant attention, it will be tough for healers to find a chance to do other important things.
You mean how things was before all tanks got crazy self heal? :P
Blizz is so good at balancing classes great job.
I'm so happy Monks are where I personally believe they deserve once again like in Draenor! Wish more people would've recognized it during T19.
Thanks for this Sco. Super excited for BFA. gonna be my first xpac where i main a tank
Welcome to the fold Xj
Same
Also my first xpac maining a tank, and still undecided between monk and paladin
I decided to go with paladin
Now that were a month into the expansion. I agree with these rankings, as a healer.
The best M+ tank for BFA is the hunter pet.
Great video! Thanks for keeping us up to date on the tank scene :)
Now that 8.1 is out and you guys are done with world first could we get a new video for both m+ and raid
Tricky thing to rank, once the tanks get closer together in strength and utility you might find it's about their group makeup and what 'holes' they plug. DH and DK so close on this list it might come down to what healer they are playing with and the utility from the DPS.
DH's with spell damage group , BloodDK's with mele,psyhical damage
Hey, Blizzard. Since we can't heal and we have to compete with virtually every class in the game for the dps role, how about you reconsider our place on the tanking scale? Sincerely, a warrior main since vanilla.
Excellent video as always, Sco! Thanks for all the info!
I agree with you, but Death knight has very few interupts/stuns/silence
I find Veng Demon Hunter is better because he has a grip, a stun, a silence, and a fear! plus, the cc cage! and that's what makes Demon Hunter so good in mythic +
and about the healing, if you got good healer you won't need Death strike that much, also DH self-healing is so good by the way
So what have we learned between the raiding and M+ ranking videos? That warrior is bottom tier again BOIIIIIIIS.
Feels bad man
As a previous Prot Warrior main of 4 years recently converted into a Blood DK since ToS, I am happy that my change is once again completely validated lol.
This post did not age well.
Aww yea, I've been waiting for this!
Did you take into account low haste values? Death knights are very haste dependent and early on, haste is hard to come by.
Great video Method and Sco! Good luck with world 1s this expac and thanks for these summaries.
I am gona main Guardian Druid in BFA... from what I feel right now, he can survive a lot and dmg buff they gave him to trash and swipe is pretty decent... He may still be slightly worse than other tanks, but I find him fun to play so I will try to make for that weakness... Blizz is making updates with patches so we never know who is gona get buffed, nerfed or changed later thats why it is most important to play what we like... Great video btw :).
Thanks Sco!!!! wish you would have talked more about how devastating is for some tanks to lose the legendary traits and how once you hit 116 the game play for tanks slows quite a bit. Most classes feel like they are more fun to play till 116.
after having tried out the tanks I was considering rolling, the DK is out for me. the loss of "Tremble Before me" just makes the playstyle so much worse in my opinion. that talent was very nice as it turned your death & Decay into a CC ability and I felt more in control of large packs than I do now. Demon hunter still feels great and I'm sure monk is also fantastic, but I haven't tried it out yet after the 8.0 changes, but I'm sure they are fine. So I'm maybe only leveling up 2 tanks in BFA. I'm at a loss why they removed Tremble before me, it was so useful.
RIP warrior.. again..
Jens Jensen dw they can be considered t2 depending on who you talk to. Also if we aren’t at the top we can only get better (:
noo rip druid x.x
Only been bottom tier for 4 expansions now, it can still get better, right?
DKs can die in a fire.
we where not at the top in legion and we only got worse, both for m+ and rading
@xLegendaryLPx "Also if we aren't at the top we can only get better". False. Just cuz you're not at the top doesn't mean you can't go down even further.
Nice video thanks for putting in the time!
Thanks for the video Sco! I wasn't really sure what to pick going into this expansion - it's looking like my M+ team will need a tank and by what you've said it looks like DH will be the one I pick. Cheers! - Llabnala
The druid final ranking look like all my exam scores, that shit gave me anxiety
What UI addons is the Paladin in 4:50 using. That is a solid looking UI.
Really disappointed at the state of Protection Warriors overall right now, for both raiding and mythic+. Hoping they get some attention in 8.1.
Same, I almost hope that I am completely wrong with these rankings just for the sake of Warrior :D
+Method Sco same I really enjoy the rage management play style of prot warrior. Just a little bit of self-sustain please and make it on par with even just the Paladin and I’ll be happy. I’m levelling a Paladin at the moment for that reason. I just like shield tanks.
Very good video. Thanks for the free content! :)
Well, as a Prot Warrior, looks like I'm just gonna be not tanking end-game content for the time being. I was already looking into experiencing this expansion as a DPS or perhaps heals (wanted Priest but Shadow's not looking too hot), so my beloved main, warrior, being the least desired tank in a group just made the choice clear.
I don't know if Blizz think that they're maintaining uniqueness of classes by not bringing warriors to parity. I tanked through legion and I'm sure it's still doable in BfA of course but it's just really annoying to not have the factor of being an amazing tank due to class.
Having said that, knowing what one is doing gets appreciated and if played really well, warriors will still get recognition, but why not have an easier time of it by just tanking as a monk instead of fighting an uphill battle?
Release Classic so I can bask in the warrior's spotlight once again... and probably be constantly reminded of how warriors couldn't get it up in Retail.
Ardanaut it does suck that warriors have been shoved to the curb this xpac. I’ve mained port from classic to legion and finally switched to my DK for BFA. Prot warriors were once such amazing tanks but blizz I guess hates them. Classic is going to be fun when people see what prot warriors truly can be.
Grr it would figure that Warriors are bottom of the pack again... I have one of each class of tank, and although I like bits of all of them Warrior is still my favorite tank in terms of play experience. We will see if the upcoming buff helps balance things out. Having main tanked on my warrior since wrath, I would really appreciate warriors being competitive for endgame content -_-
Interesting, thanks for that video. I main a Prot War usually, but I'm going to switch this time around. Levelling a Monk to get the hang of it, and I already have a VDH.
I'm not sure about the DH, though. That mitigation score, which seems confirmed by most discussions around the tanking DH spec, is scary. In very good hands, with an opti party, I feel like the DH could be very strong, but for clunkier group composition I fear it might become a liability. Basically, high risk high reward, I guess. But living on the edge like that, any rebalancing pass could make it fall hard.
Not to mention I hated the gameplay and was bored to death each and everytime I played that char.
I also have a 'young' DK. Could try leveling it. Choose what toon will ultimately become my main when the actual expansion hits. Not a fan of the class fantasy, though.
Monk seems to be the "default" choice for me ( not to mention we are leaning toward a mostly physical party ), but I can't ignore that amazing self sustain on the BDK.
Decisions, decisions !
1 DK
2 DH
3 Monk
4 Paladin
5 Warrior
6 Druid
Thanks for the video, think I have decided to main a Monk in BfA but I will also level a DH alt right away DH is just so much fun to play in m+.
I would rate veng DH slightly higher just because it provides a magic damage debuf. Survivability and damage-wise it has nothing to envy DKs.
Probably first expac monk tanks aren't squishy going into the beginning of an expansion, reason im rerolling back to monk "my favorite class".
Hey man thx for the video maybe I missed it but what weak auras are you using for blood?
hey great videos! I am a total newb, how are the classes ranked so differently between raids and m+? Also shouldnt we bring in the amount of dps the tanks bring to the table (i know it is not the primary role but extra deps helps a lot) or is this to marginal between all tanks to even bring it up?
I'm excited for the next UI video, let's go dooood!!
yeah, better get working on that soon :O
We trust you Sco! >:D
Hmm nailed it again Monk and Warlock will be my mains again for this expansion ^^
You should have done an overlap with Raiding, or a sum across the board for a full picture.
Love these vids
I can't help but feel that paladin should at least be no. 2 or 3 because of almost all their utility can be used on others, and their heal as well can be used on others. They fill a unique roll in regards to all their abilities that can be used on anyone. But as you say Sco, it is hard to rank them before the expansion even launched.
I’m levelling a Paladin for the first time at the moment and it’s crazy how many abilities they have and the utility that comes with that. Especially with Tauren with group stun racial as well as the ST stun that already comes with Paladin.
Hey Sco, thanks for your insight! Will you share your WeakAuras and ELVui setup for tanks like you did for Legion? I, and i believe a lot of others, found them very useful and would be grateful if you could do it for BfA as well.
Edit: Just saw your other comment, looking forward for your UI!
I'm not sure what to go for... Demon hunter or Monk. but looking at both of these videos, monk looks to be the best option since it is Tier 2 for Mythic + and top spot for raiding. that said I will be leveling 3 tanks, which I have decided will be Monk, Demon hunter and Death knight. So I should be good for all sorts of content. the only bad thing to say about the death knight is it's lack of mobility, but we do have 2 movement abilities now if you talent into wraith walk, so it might not be so bad.
CONCISE and Needed. TYVM
I'd give a 6/10 or 7/10 for utility to Blood due to how much the gorefiend's grasp's range was nerfed,but that's not going to knock them off their top spot of course,the ranking for all classes in general is solid and accurate though
Don't get me wrong,even if GG was nerfed,it doesn't mean it's bad or even not the best utility for m+,I just feel like it should be still kept in mind
Doesn't feel nerfed to be honest... I think the biggest thing Blizzard can do is find a way to reward people for interrupting or just make it more obvious that it's a good thing. I shouldn't be responsible for interrupting casters or gripping them to get them into the death ball...
5:37 WOW! Sco without beard OMG!
Realy good job, thanks a lot!! But i think damage shouldn't be grouped with usefull abilities. I guess damage is important enough to be a separate point for discussion when we are talking about mythic+.
Echt gutes Viedeo und ich kann dir da nur zustimmen. Danke Sco
Really good video and I can only agree with you. Thanks, Sco
Pittyplâtsch - Antonnidas EU
Give warriors bracers baseline.... fixed :) Great video Sco
EmperorSheol or azerite trait
They wont do it because its basic/boring.
fixed? So Warriors with bracers in Legion was "fixed" and viable for myth+ 25 .. yeaaaa ofc.
It was better with the rankings having different weights I think. I even think the list would have come out differently if you did. I just dont see all the stats equalizing out like this
I just wish there was 120 premade characters so you could play with the azerite traits. Some of the traits seem pretty nice. Masterful instincts for Guardian gives you a minor defensive boost after SI is over for 10 secs, which is quite long, or gory regeneration makes Frenzied regen much stronger. IE, you can pair Gory Regeneration with Incarn and extend your Frenzied Regen quite a while. Is it enough to move guardian up for dungeon tanking? Probably not, but would be interesting with play around with regardless.
Take away all that self healing from the other classes and they are pure and absolute garbage. Warrior for Life!
well, it's no surprise you can't actually trust this 100% anymore, since there's changes.. Btw, it's a great guide, easy to understand and everything. but, I got one question..
Why not put mobility into this? That's a 5th crucial thing you gotta plan ahead.. Especially in mythics, it's important how fast the tank can come from point A to point B, or if a group member is being targeted etc.
Ofc, it shouldn't be any surprise to anybody, that Demon Hunters should have 10/10 in mobility, since we're the kings of mobility xD
how is druid in mythic + can it be good survive there ?
An expansion may come when prot warrior doesn't rank at the bottom for all content... but not this expansion! (Are we paying reparations for vanilla still?)
IMO you should've added a category for damage to this, and raised the value of sustain as they are both important in M+.
Why is mass grip alone worth 8 utility points, when veng brings it too, along with silence, fear, a single target CC (infested is the first season's affix), better kiting, and 5% magic damage debuff? Just feels odd that all that is only worth 2 points.
Better because VDH is boring *yawwwn*
Monk utter lack of self heals puts them at the bottom of the list imo. This list suggests the healer you will be running with has any knowledge of what they're doing and won't get overwhelmed if you go under 90% hp.
Good Video, thumbs up
I'm gonna reroll Monk in BFA, Death knight is quite a pain in choosing talents lol
i would love these vids for dps and healers also. im struggling ALOT atm to finding a main since i will have less time to play. i want a clas si enjoy all speccs on and be decent in the eyes of the community cause i will be in the pug world for a bit and playing anything other then then "best" is not viable
As someone who pugs m+ quite a bit and has mained shadow priest this entire xpac, it really depends on the group. Sure, I got declined more than I would've if I were a good spec, but once you establish a decent score, people start inviting you based on that despite your spec.
You can still be trash if you play the best spec... I don't invite on spec unless it's healer or tank and even then you check their score if it's a high key. DPS you always check their score because a class that may not be the best but knows how to play is 10x more valuable than a dead "best class" DPS.
I haven't seen Sco cover DPS stuff by the way, for that I look to Preacher.
The puq world will consume wastly more time, also they are more into flavor of the month classes. My recomendation try to find a proper raid guild and be considered a social. You should be able to join from time to time with those guys who are dedicated in the approach and leav you left with more free time :D I was twinking the past couple of month and tried a few m+ and raids with pugs and it was hell in comparison. To be more accurate in the time it took me to get one party m+12HoV together and finishing it, I did 2 with my guild on +16 :D Not to mention the raids which take 1:30-2h longer.
You should be able to have a good exp as :
Warlock
Warrior
Monk
Mage
The issue is, most of my raiding guild's members just do their +15 and call it a week. If you're talking about ~15 keys, your spec doesn't matter at all. I enjoy pushing higher keys, and those are when people have a reason to get a bit picky on spec.
Will anyone do dps ranking like you make tank or other man make heals?
while i agree with most of the placements, not including damage in this ranking seems like a major oversight. most if not all top mythic plus teams are taking DH over DK now because of the insane damage and utility, your tanks in mythic plus have to be capable of putting out massive damage and DH is far ahead of DK in that regard.
damage was factored in. It went into the "utility" category
i supposed thats bad wording on my part, i meant to say not having it as its own rating
I do not agree with druid tank being so low, i prefer to heal druid instead of other tanks in beta since it's more predictable when it comes to taking dmg and druid dmg taken is smoother than any other tanks right now.
Death Knight. You're welcome!
Anyone knows which UI is used on the DK and Monk in this video?
hey sco just wondering why damage wasn't graded?
DH Utility is 10/10?
@Method Sco I just saw video of paladin soloing most of mythics lol
Please make a video with healers ranked!
Is there any chance of a method dps player doing this for DPS classes or specs overall benefit rankings for m+ outside of "numbers are tuned well Lul"
Glad I got all my mage tower appearances for my DK because apparently we will remain relevant in BFA. Was really worried with some of the things I was hearing that we were being nerfed into the ground.
Is there anyone in Method making videos similar to this for other roles? Such as Healing, Melee, and Ranged?
There is a Method healers ranked video in the video description above on the Method YT channel
So is warriors still viable for mythic plus? despite they lack on the self sustain.
all tanks are very much viable, it's just a matter of preferred tanks to push the highest keys, but if you're really good at warrior and terrible at DK, obviously you will push higher with the warrior, so really, play what you want :)
Spyro They are great only thing holding them back is ss but they also have great mobility and can be considered t2 depending on who you talk to
Can someone tell me what the nameplate addon is called? Looks amazing.
Looks like it may be KuiNameplates with Nameplate Scrolling Combat Text maybe. I just started using them and looks similar, love it so far.
So... basically warriors are gonna be trash in early BFA being bottom tier for both M+ and Raiding.
You did some good work on the video, but this scoring system is horrible. You should have continued using something like what you used for your raid tank ranking video, just changed the importance of the different categories. You should also have damage as a category for the M+ rankings, it is less important but still a significant factor.
Tanking class discord channels are probably blowing up right about now.
nice vid
Thanks bruh
is it possible that sco's vids on twitch are only viewable for subs, or is my twitch just fuckin up?
welp , rip druid for me cause i don't raid , don't want to be hot garbage for a whole expansion at M+ again
Subscribed
Thanks.
WARRIOR IN TIER 3
I FEEL ATTACKED.
Jk. I enjoyed the video, but putting Prot Warr in tier 3 is kinda harsh. Their mobility/utility alone should put them in Tier 2 minimum. Even with the victory rush nerf It’s still going to be used from pack to pack and possibly even multiple times per encounter.
I don’t think Self Sustain should even really be a major factor in Mythic + due to the fact that it’s not the tanks job to heal. Hold Aggro and Mitigate.
10% AP, Int/Demo Shout, Shockwave, Avatar (which breaks some cc/roots)
Intervene
Warriors are currently paper tanks.
So.. Basicly same as Legion :( Except Warriors are even more zzz
Still waiting for you UI, will you post it soon? Do you communicate with your youtube chat?
Soon (tm)
Hopefully before BFA
I also try to reply to comments whenever I have a minute free, but with so many comments it becomes a little overwhelming.
Whenever I'm streaming I always try to answer questions though so that's probably the best route of contract for Q&A
+1: eager to see the UI as well, especially to manage visibility cooldown!
yes im ur fan!^^ thx 4 the video. cu & hf :)
why is noone talking about the insane Aoe Dmg of prot warriors with the avatar/thunderclap talent ?
Because you have dps to do that, and also DH still outclasses it.
the dmg is only insane bc you have gloves for an additional 20% extra aoe thunderclap dmg. Right now in Legion its broken, yeah. But on lvl 120 its not
no ... on beta premade 110 the dmg is insane
right now from my testing DH, Pala and Monk do more dmg. thats why nobody is talking about it.
Songname?
BFA DK Tier 1 seems a little optimistic. Its low threat generation along with the missing mobility doesnt allow for agressive kite-pulls like a dh is capable of with ease. Its nowhere even near to the beast it was in Legion with BiS Gear. I'd probably rank it close to brewie, behind Pals and Dhs as Tier1.
Michael Moormann it may seem like that now but it's the beginning of the expansion, all of our gear isn't that great and blood will have low haste and versatility.Also blood is one of the best threat generating tanks due to the fact that blood boil is free and on two charges and it's puts a dot on the target Which helps with threat generation. unlike let's say prot warrior with thunder clap that's on a long cd or prot pally with consecration.It's very Similar to DH infernal leap with flame crash in comparison with blood boil. I'm not trying to say ur wronge cause ur not blood is struggling because of the lack of secondary stats, but once blood goes through a couple of raid tiers it'll be very strong again since it's so dependent on secondary stats. Plus in mythic + self sustain is King which prot pally, brewmaster, warrior, and druid lack because it's not built into there mitigation like blood or vengeance. Ty!!!
oh how times habe changed
Monk was first to a +16 on beta, wich is all I need to know :P
3rd -- 2 VDHs were before Trellsky, but a good spot nonetheless.
Cause of Azerite Traits giving you insane selfheal
Oh? Didnt catch it, just got the brewmaster run from my guild discord. Still though, seems pretty strong :)
what about bdks
Guy Poulin Got nerfed badly :) But they are good for M+ aswell.
No good Defensive means they can get oneshot easiely
All hail the DH woo woo lol. 🎉
DH can eat ass just like Monk... They need to either buff everyone's mobility or Nerf those two because the term "wheelchair" classes shouldn't be a thing.
Salt aside it's nice to see Blizzard not overreacting and nerfing them into the ground. I remember how quickly Blizz turned on DK's in Cata and how shit they felt comparatively. If I had been able to get into the whole idea of playing a DH then maybe I'd be a bit more enthusiastic but something just didn't feel right about them.
OspreyBravo18 Welp unlike most people that only play them because of the blatant hype train, I main Vengeance because I felt a burning demonic savior felt like my personality. And I understand the whole thing with the dk bro, we've aaaall been screwed by them in Wrath lol. So the salt is warranted.
I expected DH to be 1st honestly
Welp guess I geared my warrior for no reason ;-;
@frooty cronk warrior are op rn lol