I'm personally uncomfortable with calling feelings cheating. You can't choose how you feel but you can choose your actions. It's totally normal to have a crush but just don't pursue it. Keep the same boundaries you'd have with a friend/coworker with the person you have a crush on. Maybe it's just my history of trauma but trying to tell someone they can't feel something bc it's bad is just unrealistic and causes shame which breads resentment.
I had that thought. This goes back to the sexual attraction, desire, and arousal that Hannah discussed a few videos back. I've had crushes on people (sexual attraction) while I was in a relationship but because we were monogamous at the time I had no /desire/ to act on it. I knew I can't control how I feel but I could control my actions so I didn't act on those feelings and eventually they went away.
Crushes are 💯 not cheating. I think they are totally normal in long term relationships, and don't need to be shared (but obvs can if u and ur partner choose to be very open about that sort of thing)
I agree. However, if you have a crush on someone and you continue to seek out time/emotional connection with them, that’s an action, and is thus crossing a line. Is that line cheating? I don’t know, but it’s definitely a type of betrayal.
@@hannahwitton hello I have an alert message about webscams they count as cheating people with lies and misleading advertisements messages. so here are two of them. Publishers Clearing House. Delilah Bell work from home program. the important thing to know is avoiding them so they can't get money from you my sister and I have dealt with scams before many years ago.
I do have a pretty big issue with not allowing your partner to masturbate. I think it's not ok to pressure your partner to be completely dependent on you sexually, just like it wouldn't be ok to pressure them to be completely dependent on you financially. In my relationship we've had several times where one of us had a lower libido because of mental health or other reasons and it tends to make the other person feel frustrated and rejected (we understand eachother's feelings but it can still be hard), and I can't imagine layering on top of that to forbid that person from even masturbating.
For me, a polyamorous person I would say cheating is going against the agreements in the relationship, but also the unspoken agreements. For example if you know your partner would be really upset if you flirted with another person then don’t do it or you are cheating on them. For me the entire thing is based on the boundaries that are clear in your relationship. Any grey areas I would use the judgement of would you be upset if they did it? If yes, don’t do it. If no, bring it up and say “hey I wanna do this thing is that cool with you?” For example if you know you are a flirty drunk you could say to your partner “Hey, I know I tend to get really flirty when I’m drunk, does that bother you?” And then you can discuss that boundary
Another polya person here, and I'm fully of the same mind that the cheating is defined by the betrayal of trust in mutual agreements as well as not disclosing or concealing information or comitting unadressed actions that might have a negative effect on the trust those agreements rely on. And it could be anything from habitually exhausting shared resources such as food or internet data volume in a shared payment plan to romantic or risky sexual interactions that could mean medical or financial or emotional endangerment to other partners.
Yup. I agree. I'm polyamorous...most of what I would consider cheating would be a partner purposefully hiding a relationship or sexual encounter from me. Otherwise, breaking boundaries is something I wouldn't always consider cheating (depending on the boundary), but it can be a grey area for sure.
Yes healthy communication and boundary setting! 👏 I feel the hardest part of cheating is a perceived betrayal or deceit, open communication can certainly help avoid this.
I am pretty hecking monogamous just cos I want a connection with 1 person and for no other reason. And to me this is the same situation. Ie. If they are not okay with me watching porn and I agree to that boundary (I don't) then I wouldn't watch porn, and if I didn't agree and didn't want to make that sacrifice for the relationship then I would just not be with that person. So if me and my partner say flirting is fine then flirting is fine. We don't let ourselves be forced into the constraints society tells us we should have but only the constraints that we are comfortable with.
This is so important. ‘Cheating’ is so often thought of as a black-and-white concept which clearly doesn’t work considering how often someone feels like a boundary has been breached or trust has been broken, and the defence is ‘nothing actually happened’. The reality is that something did happen to make you uncomfortable, even if it’s not sex, and that’s why it’s important to discuss what you consider to be okay or not okay in your relationship!
For me, cheating begins when you know you can't tell the other person. And also I always make sure that my partner and I regularly have a conversation about our boundaries. EDIT: As a polyamorous aroace, this is wild. EDIT 2: OMG there's a guy!!!!!!!
I agree :) however, I realise it's not always so straightforward, not for everyone at least. My boyfriend, for example, is very introverted and often feels uncomfortable talking about private things. We have a lovely relationship and we talk a lot but I know it takes him some time to find the right moment and words to open up. It's not always easy for me as my motto is "clear question, honest answer" but I know he will eventually tell me, when he feels ready.
One thing I would say is that even if I dont consider something "cheating", doesnt mean I wouldnt feel a bit hurt or confused if my partner did something. For example, I dont consider watching porn cheating by any means, but if I found out theyd been doing it a lot in secret I'd feel confused about why they feel the need, if hes not satisfied with me etc. I think cheating can be such a strong word, but that doesnt mean that something that isn't literally cheating isn't hurtful. So, as you say, having an open discussion is key because that grey area of not cheating doesnt mean you feel entirely happy or comfortable with it.
i always worry because my boyfriend does not watch porn that often and feel like i am "responsible" for his sexual needs (even if he says he is happy). it's so interesting how different people feel about stuff.
@@TheEmmaHouli I think it depends on certain factors. If he is older sometimes the sex drive slows down. Watching porn can slow down a sex drive. I have been in the same marriage almost 50 years and since certain things change as you age like her parts don't get as much natural lubrication it gets dry and I know it could be painful for her (I don't really know the best way to talk about using lube) so I mainly do oral on her. She doesn't really have good oral skills so I don't complain and kinda try and be glad that she tries once in a while because again I feel like if I complain about her ability she will just be like hurt and not want to try anymore and since she is a survivor of abuse that makes it tough and I am not sure she really likes that anyway and is now just trying to do it out of a sense of duty. For many years she would not even do oral at all so it's complicated. I had a father who cheated and so I have sometimes felt the need and felt justified but having seen the damage it does to the other person have chosen to not be that person. This is my experience and I use porn from time to time to help smooth things out and at 70 sex isn't as important as it was long ago. There is no right and wrong amount of sex or porn usage etc unless it is extreme like all the time but then there is underlying causes to that.
@@barvdw depends on the couple and the amount of trust that exists. For example, I don’t mind if my partner watches porn, I just don’t want to know about it. I know people in poly relationships who have a similar rule, they only want to know that they are busy, but trust that they will stay within the rules they have set up.
It's also important to note that something doesn't have to be cheating to make your partner uncomfortable. Strip clubs are a great example of something that might often fall into this category, where you and your partner don't consider it to be cheating, but you still have decided not to attend them. Communication is the most important thing in relationships regardless of how you label things.
I think cheating is crossing your partners boundaries while knowing what the boundaries are and betraying your partner while knowing you are. To me cheating can be as small as texting someone, if it's secretive and is being hidden then they know that what they are doing is wrong within the relationship. These things always take discussion at the beginning of the relationship as some partners can be manipulative and controlling and not allow you to go see your own mother without saying that you are cheating. You are not responsible for your partners mental health or emotions, you cannot rely on your partner for the same, you can only support and understand
hmnmmm yessss there's something potentially innocent about the spontaneity of flirting but if it's pre-arranged like meeting up or flirting over text that might feel different???
I use the phrase ‘second look’. If in the moment you find someone that isn’t a partner attractive and subconsciously flirt with them or visually admire them then in my mind that’s ok. That’s being a human with sexual desire. If you intentionally take a second look or continue to flirt and/or look at them then within my relationship that would be cheating
My partner and I are very chill in general, and over quarantine we've been living with a bunch of friends whilst in college. Some nights when people would get drunk ona night in (I personally don't drink, but my partner does) we'd play spin the bottle or truth or dare and certain sexual acts would come up (like kissing or spanking someones ass). I'd always ask my partner and he would always ask me if these things were okay to do with other people, and I always said yes because it was all good fun and nothing serious. However, one night I left the group early to go to bed, and the next morning my partner recalled the night to me when I asked and he casually mentioned that he'd ended up kissing two of our friends. He assumed he had permission because I'd given permission before. I was quite hurt because 1. I wasnt there to judge what the mood of the night was and whether my partner was really interested in kissing a certain person, which I would count as cheating, and 2. we'd set the boundary that we always asked permission. He didn't try to hide it or lie about it, but I didn't feel like that was the point in this specific instance. His didn't intend to hurt me, but like you say in the video, it's about how the partner feels and whether there is a feeling of betrayal or break of trust. He apologised profusely when I brought it up and we got past it easily enough, but it made me think about the need for context in these situations. If I were in the room and knew what the mood was I wouldn't have cared. But because I was unaware I felt left out and undesired.
Seems pretty clear-cut to me. Cheating would be when you're breaking the parameters of the relationship. The only issue I see with this definition is if those parameters are unclear, but I'd say then it falls back on the people in the relationship to be be more up front and clear about what they want.
I definitely agree with this, in a perfect, logical world. But not only might the parameters of the relationship not have been clearly agreed upon like you mentioned, but there are just so many different situations to cover, which might also have different meanings because of their unique context. So I think what needs to be added is the emotional element and the "going by the spirit not the letter of the agreement" which Hannah mentions at the end of the video. You have to keep in mind how your actions will make the other person feel and check in often in those grey-area cases.
My husband flirts with his male friends all the time. It was something he did with them before I was in the picture and it's major part if their relationship.
@Christopher Grant Guys need their guys. I wish that more men were open/ able to be open about needing they type of touchy feely relationships that are usually associated with females.
I was clearly third wheeling all the time if I was hanging out with my ex and his best friend, both straight guys in relationships. He would pick up the phone and say hi babe to him, he never called me babe.
One thing that I find frustrating about the idea of emotional cheating is that I think it’s very normal to have friends from the opposite sexual identity and a lot of the time these friendships are sexualised or romanticised and I think it’s really damaging. Obviously it’s case dependent and people in relationships need to be able to have those honest conversations, but I think automatically assuming that it’s cheating is really limiting People might have a series of relationships in their lifetime, and if they have to stop being friends with people to appease their different partners, it’s just sad For me at least, I don’t want to get all my emotional support/intimacy from one person, even if my partner is the main connection in my life
I think it’s interesting that the context of this conversation is based around a “primary partner.” I think it would be interesting to see the perspective of a secondary partner and their idea of cheating.(ie agreeing to use condoms with other partners and not, not getting tested after agreeing to etc.)
Sadly exactly this happened to me a few weeks ago and I still can't handle it quite right. So my husband is poly and has a girlfriend, we agreed he can have so much sex he wants with her if he uses condoms but this one time a few weeks ago he hasn't used one, she let him totally do it with her consent. After he came home from her he immediately told me about it. I was in shock and couldn't think of anything I could say to him. A few days later I told him I want him to get tested and don't want any sexuell contact with him and don't want that he sees the other woman until this isn't cleared between us. This was 4 weeks ago I still don't want sex with him and can't say if I am okay with him seeing the other woman again. I feel betrayed 😔 don't know how to handle it further Sorry for any typos I am not native in English.
@@Vapura94 If you feel betrayed that is completely valid! Talk to him and if he doesn't respect that or won't respect it in the future, respect yourself first and firmly stick to that!!
I would love to see a follow-up video that goes more into the aftermath. What happens in a relationship to deal with an experience of cheating? If you've (accidentally or otherwise) cheated on your partner, how do you deal with that? How do you process your feelings, both on your own and together? How do you get into a new relationship safely and honestly if your previous one ended due to cheating? We often judge cheating very harshly as a society and this video just proves that it's so much more complex and context-based, but this still only talks mostly from the perspective of the partner who got cheated on/before it even happens. I would love more openness and a better conversation on the topic with regards to 'what if it *does* happen, how do you deal with it.' (p.s. on the same note, how do you deal with accidentally sexually harassing someone? especially in a society where you can be canceled and demonized because of it)
Ester Perel would be a good resource for you. She deals a lot with affairs and the aftermath thereof Also Hannah in previous videos has no sympathy for people who cheat
I've been emotionally cheated on for sure and once I actually was the home wrecker in a situation. I totally didn't mean to be but it was very interesting being on the other side of the coin. I slept with someone who told me he was in an open relationship so it was fine, but he lied and actually the terms of his relationship were he can only sleep with others if his bf was there with him. It was super awkward when he admitted that he cheated on his bf with me and it did end with his bf breaking up with him. I don't think I personally did anything wrong since I was mislead but it was definitely a weird moral grey area that I had to sit with for a while.
I stayed with my ex for 4 years after I found out he was cheating with a work colleague. In those 4 years I caught him sexting many other women, destroying any self esteem I had but stayed as I thought no one else could ever want me. I was ashamed of staying with him and getting let down time and time again (family only knew of the 1st instance), but finally had enough when I caught him sexting whilst I was in hospital. Thankfully with my Fiancé now we have had many conversations about my boundaries and he respects them!!
I’m so sorry you had that experience! I think it brings up a very good point, something being done when you are vulnerable, ex: in the hospital, super stressed, grieving someone, just had a baby etc. Whatever is done in those circumstances makes it SO much worse in my eyes!
Had a similar situation myself and totally understand the shame of staying with someone after you find out they were cheating. The person I’m with now talked about my previous relationship with me and educated me on what gas lighting was 👏🏼
I totally understand. I found out my bf at the time had cyber sex with many girls. He didn't consider it cheating and called me stupid. I felt very betrayed but I still stayed with him. I tjought nobody wants me. Until he dumped me because he wanted to have sex with these girls. To this day I deal with trust issues and was not able to get into a new relationship.
i knew my ex was cheating on me for 5 years, and constantly called it out. stayed anyway because i felt like i had to and it was my fault for being jealous
I’m aroace and I always thought cheating was super clear cut (sex, making out, or a date, nothing else) and this video has filled me with confusion, fear, and gratitude that I never have to think about this lmao. I’m so sorry y’all this sounds hard
I was one of the few who said that watch porn is cheating. However this is just “average”. My partner and I have discussed that we are ok with the other watching porn under certain circumstances that we have agreed upon (even if they are different), and we have agreed with them, the basic rule being that if you are choosing porn over your partner (spending sexual and non sexual time with them).
There's also some stuff that I wouldn't class as cheating but I would be really hurt or angry if it happened. I wouldn't say my partner flirting with someone in front of me as cheating but I feel that's not nice!
Some! It’s not cheating, but im still not okay with it and, if I told them and they continued to do it, I would break up with them. It’s not cheating, but they’re constantly making me feel uncomfortable.
So not in front of you is better? It depends on the type of flirting. Hubby knows I'll *flirt* with an eighty year old woman. Out of fun and silliness. He knows I'd never flirt where it seems like serious intent could be implied or assumed. Neither would he. If we wanted freedom to flirt, we'd of remained single.
I love this style of video including people’s personal accounts! For future videos of a similar format I would be interested to see a few more male perspectives and if they highlight any differences
My ex had a crush on a colleague and went on a date with him without my knowledge. She claims they never did anything, but it still felt like cheating. It was emotional cheating simply. Never apologized or recognized that it hurt me. She dumped me shortly after. A shit end to a good 7 years.
For me if it was a date as opposed to just a drink between colleagues then I would 100% count that as cheating. There is a difference in my opinion. :)
I think what I take from this is everything relies on context and communication. What can be seen as X by one person can be seen as Y by another. Apples and oranges. End of the day they're both fruit and people have preferences and opinons towards them.
For my fiance and I cheating is anything with another person that is outside of the boundaries of friendship. He and I both have friends and we all know eachother. Everyone is aquainted and there are no secrets.
I keep feeling guilty, reading these comments being like “no, I wouldn’t want my boyfriend doing that. No, I don’t want him flirting - I don’t think it’s cheating but I definitely would be hurt by it.” And stuff like that. I really appreciate this comment, made me feel better.
@@needtopoonow308 If you don't know the song "Runaround Sue" by Dion, maybe check it out. That song is just amazing because it is anti-cheating. Makes me get up and dance every time.
I think seeing my partner flirt with someone in front of me would make me feel comfortable and yeah like that person in one of the voice notes said it’s like funny but also quite attractive so the idea that they could flirt with someone else and be perceived as attractive to someone else makes me see them as even more attractive like the idea that they could easily attract anyone else and easily be with anyone else but they are choosing to be with me
Totally agree that everything depends on agreement between the partners. I’m a very curious person and love talking to people and it might seem flirting to some because I genuinely am interested in people and like to tease them in a friendly way. I have discussed this with my partner and explained that there is no sexual intension nor desire in all of the interaction and they now feel more secure after knowing this. Communication is the key~!
13:17 That would depend. If my lover had a crush on the other person I would be suspicious of the whole situation. If the other person had a crush on my lover but I knew it wasn't mutual at all I wouldn't be worried. Well, I wouldn't be worried as far as my relationship was concerned. I'd want to check in that my lover wasn't leading them on, and the other person was fully aware their feelings weren't mutual.
Thanks for this, Hannah. In my first marriage, I was the victim of emotional infidelity for most of the 19 years we were married (she admitted this). She had emotional attractions and attachments to multiple men. She says she never acted physically/sexually on these feelings, and I believe her (for reasons I won't go into here). But as our marriage was ending, she admitted to strong romantic feelings for others, which explains a lot of things I didn't understand earlier in our marriage. She was never fully invested emotionally in our marriage. Yes, I bear some responsibility for this, and I understand what and why, but I still think what she did was cheating, and she lied about it for nearly 19 years.
I find it important to distinguish the difference between feeling discomfort and feeling you have been cheated on, many of the things listed are things that would make me uncomfortble but not regard as cheating. It is important what frequensy and intentions it is done with.
Very interesting. I am 73 and for me a successful relationship is not worth the cheating for a momentary pleasure. A long term, loving relation ship is a gift and something to be treasured. If one is in that kind of deep relationship, why would anyone cheat? You would want to nurture that kind of love, not wreck it or hurt your partner by testing boundaries.
I think at its core, definition of cheating is very simple: to deliberately and knowingly breaking agreed-upon (implicit or explicit) rules of a relationship. This also covers non-romantic relationships you can also "cheat on" other people in your life by: -Telling a friend's dark secret to other people -Abusing a family member's trust -Collaborating with your employer's competitor for personal monetary gain -Neglecting a pet -Disobeying standing orders as a member of the military or police -Working as a double agent for a hostile foreign power etc. etc.
When doing the poll I had the thought about context with each question so it was a bit hard to answer! Eg. “yes but only when..” “no but if...” in the end, context and the specific boundaries in each relationship matter. Deliberate secrecy or doing something that you know would upset or humiliate your partner if they knew, is definitely cheating, but specifically what within that is contextual. Really interesting video.
This is crazy to me. The cheating is only when it’s a secret...considering wanting to spend time with someone else or having a crush cheating is absolutely crazy to me.
Yeah, those sound far more like big red flags of controlling entitlement personalities to me as we litterally can not control our thoughts and emotions, only our actions and intent.
@@wearepublicdepends on why they want to spend time with them, what's happening and what the significance of their relationship is.. As to crushing, both my husband and I would find that to be cheating. But that's what we mutually agreed to.
You set the rules at the start of a relationship, and breaking those rules is cheating, whatever those rules may be. And yes, I do think I've just expertly shown why I'm still single. 😂 It's the easy answer in theory, but I doubt many people would like the idea to sit down and boringly define clear rules for a relationship during a time when everything is supposed to be romantic and wonderful, so it probably doesn't work in practice. Still can't help but think many relationships would benefit from being more clearly defined though, rather than never defining what the relationship is and just going with the societal standard...
@Christopher Grant I think so too. Having those rules set in stone would only serve to hurt the relationship, I imagine, so there should be the ability to revisit them and change the rules if needed.
This is really interesting because, like you said, setting those boundaries and clearly communicating can sometimes cause more harm than good, and may be really inappropriate to integrate. Sometimes it's hard to see boundaries as the priority, even though they obviously are!
This video has earned my subscription. This is the single best video I have yet seen on the topic and that includes Dr. Esther Perel's talks and the talks by Dan Savage. Bottom line, it boils down to respecting and honoring yourself, your partner, and the relationship you two share. If you cannot honor all 3 at the same time, then perhaps it is best to part ways. Edit 2: Honor is one of those nebulous words that can be so hard to define and nail down. To me, honor is is about being honest, possessing integrity, and good moral judgement.
I think context and intention is really important like you kept saying. A lot of the scenarios I wouldn't consider "cheating," but I'd definitely think I would want to know the the context and intention and desire behind the act. I think trusting the bond in the relationship really helps with understanding that not everything is a threat to your relationship.
So excited to hear your take on this! ❤️ ❤️ Thank you for making videos on all of these lesser discussed topics! I used to see this as a very clear line too but my views have very much changed as I've grown up.
Also to answer the question does technology make people that wouldn't cheat more likely to cheat, I feel like cheating has been around long before technology. Before sexting people wrote letters, before driving cars to midnight booty calls I'm sure people just saddled up horses or walked. Infidelity is hella old.
@Christopher Grant maybe in some cases, in other cases the cloud makes it easier to find. It's all so subjective and really depends on the person and situation. There are plenty of examples currently of people that share a phone/technology with their partners or don't have technology available to them at all and they still find ways to cheat (I mean maybe that's more difficult in the pandemic idk, but where there is a will they'll find a way).
In regards to feeling like you need to hide something, I think you also need to consider the health of that relationship. I once dated a very controlling person and would have to hide when I spoke to certain friends or family. While this was not cheating it was a break of his trust. Personally however, I believe it was trust that was okay to break and eventually breaking that trust led to us breaking up, which we were both better off for.
Since you asked about other cultures - I'm not Korean but I'm living and dating in South Korea. Being careful not to generalise, bc of course people have different boundaries regardless of where they're from - but boundaries seem a lot tighter here in general. I've experienced things like guys wanting me to send photos when I'm with friends to make sure I'm only with girls (I'm bi, so I'm not sure how that works) and people seem much quicker to accuse one another of cheating here in general. Jealousy is considered a way of showing affection among a lot of Koreans, especially younger adults. Dating also moves much quicker - so usually you only talk to one person at a time and move to the relationship label in 3/4 dates. For me, who expects dating to be talking to multiple people, THEN being mutual after a while and moving to a relationship after a longer period - boundaries on what is and isn't cheating are very difficult to navigate while making sure everyone is comfortable and trusting.
Aside from what you tell/don't tell your primary partner, I think there should be discussion about boundaries when it comes to other partners or casual encounters. For example, I would feel cheated on if I did something romantic or sexual with someone, and only found out later that they had a partner, regardless of whether that encounter was considered cheating in the context of their relationship. Being open and having discussions isn't just for the "primary" relationship.
I would say it still comes down to a Fidelity agreement kind of like (I hate to call it this) a contract, if you do what's you've talked about with your partner in the agreement it's fine but if you do something outside of that agreement then you're breaking the contract you're cheating!! I love you very much Hannah and I hope you had fun doing this cuz I know I had fun listening to the whole video take care and have a great week!!
Good one Hannah I'd say that's the best thing is don't hide anything don't try and keep a secret of what you might have done with someone else tell your partner if you have feelings towards someone and vice versa
Personally in my own relationship what I would consider cheating is an ongoing romantic or sexual relationship with another person (whether in person or online) without telling me. If my partner kisses or has sex with random strangers it doesn't bother me but if it's an ongoing thing it changes from being an isolated experience that happens to involve another person to an actual relationship. So for me a one night stand wouldn't ever be cheating but regular sexting/flirting with someone could be even if they never meet irl.
The bisexuality answers made me lowkey think I'm doing this bisexuality thing wrong because I would always consider me kissing anyone outside my relationship as cheating and I'd feel icky about my straight male partner saying me kissing a girl wouldn't count as cheating for him. It really plays into this stereotype about bi girls. Not a judgement toward the bi girls talking btw (🧡) it's just something I noticed I feel differently about. 😌
I totally understand where you're coming from and agree that this would be weird to hear from a straight male partner. At least to me, it seemed like Hannah framed the video to approach the idea that "kissing guys is cheating while kissing girls is not" as an illogical gut feeling that some people have, and I agree with that. There are definitely people who feel that way, and I personally don't agree with it and find it kind of gross and invalidating, but it's ultimately up to them whether they want to examine those feelings and opinions or not, and up to their partners whether they're okay with that view. And I totally don't think you're doing bisexuality wrong!
The more I watch of this the more polyamorous I feel. Which I've never tried, I've just been reflecting on how every time I've not cheated it wasn't because I felt like I was doing something wrong, but because I knew that whatever I could've done would have hurt my partner. And I'm not sure if I should keep adjusting my life to fit whoever I'm dating. I also never felt like cheating would make me love my partner less. I'm just really comfortable with intimacy I think.
Also I know you mention years ago about how you're considering going back to academia and I highly encourage you to consider this again as this was so well done and you gathered and analysed data amazingly!
My thoughts on this really have to do with communication. My partner and I haven't set specific guidelines around cheating or not cheating, but have agreed on which situations need to be openly communicated. The context is very important and we need to both agree on something being ok before one of us partakes in something like say, kissing, going on a casual date, or even sex. We still have different opinions on what is ok and what is not, but have very much come to terms with that. For example, my partner doesn't really care for making out, so he is fine with me making out with someone else, as long as I discuss it with him first and he knows that that person will be respectful toward me. I, on the other hand, would be very hurt if he kissed someone else because I know it's something he only does with someone when he is very comfortable and closely attached to them. As someone stated in their submission, I think the more you build a communicative foundation in the relationship, the more comfortable you'll be come with exploring the physical and emotional boundaries around monogamy or non-monogamy.
Such an interesting conversation! For me I always classed cheating as emotionally, physically or verbally engaging with someone in a way that would make your primary partner/partners uncomfortable or break trust with them. I always assumed that for it to be cheating, it would involve another person. I had never considered things like lying about birth control as cheating, but more as just outright lies and dishonesty - and therefore not a good realitionship, but perhaps it is a form of cheating? Either way these things should always be discussed with whomever you're engaging with! Great topic!!
The biggest separation for me even in situations with context is when it's cheating and when it's simply a lack of communication going on about what that partner wants.
Context is so important. I slept in the same bed as my male housemate because his pregnant sister was in a car crash and his brother in law stayed over at our house to be close to the hospital so my housemate gave up his bed for him. I checked with my boyfriend that it was okay and I had no emotional or sexual feelings towards my housemate whatsoever, I just wanted to help him out in a bad time.
Cheating begins when the relationship agreement has been broken because everyone has their own definition. So it is very important to have the hard honest talk about what is the boundaries of your relationship. You must be open in this talk and not get offended by what might be said. Also sometimes depending on where you are in this relationship and the character of you and your partner. Example…I am a people person and love people and can easily talk to people especially females with no sexual intent in mind. I understand boundaries etc.
Very interesting convo! I would personally agree with the guy who said cheating is any sexual act thats done without your partner's awareness/consent. I dont think you need to label all behaviour that makes you feel uncomfortable or unhappy cheating but that doesn't mean you don't have a right to feel what you do and it should definitely be discussed if thats the case! I'm also very surprised to see to see so many people say they consider doing ANYTHING without your partners consent cheating. Just because you're in a relationship with someone doesn't mean either of you should lose your autonomy. People can't help feelings or thoughts and have a right to their own privacy aswell. Consenting adults in a relationship are their own people and you can't expect to control someone's every behaviour in order to make yourself feel comfortable. Their is a level of trust that needs to be given in any relationship and open communication.
I personally think the defining moment of cheating is lieing, even if it's not contiously. You can give a friend a cuddle, be messaging someone at night or meeting up with them for lunch with nothing seedy going on. If you feel you can be open about it and your partner knows thats a good sign that everything is above board. But the second you're hiding that message, meeting up with someone secretly, avoiding mentioning them etc I would classify that as a type of cheating. If you are doing something that you wouldn't do with your partner in the room... it's probably not right.
That being said I think there is a lot of pressure on people in monogamous relationships to NEVER find themselves having feelings for someone else. I don't think that's totally reasonable long term. But as long as you would still choose you partner over those around you, and again you aren't doing anything sneaky, I wouldn't classify a crush as cheating.
To me it is all about communicating with your partner about boundaries. Both me and my partner agree that flirting for fun is fine, but if we can't tell eachother about the fact we flirted with someone else we are properly getting out of bounds of eachothers comfort zones. So far we haven't had any real problems. However we'll properly take it up as our relationship progress (even though we have been together for 3.5 years and are doing pretty good)
I just found your channel and this is exactly what I needed. Im in my early 20s and currently in my first real relationship and had to abandon a lot of misconceptions about relationships I unknowingly had. Thank you for you videos
Hey @Hannahwitton. I just noticed that i got a commercial for a pickup artist befor the video. I do not know if you can change or not, but i imagine that pickup artists is not something you want on your brand. Loved this video btw! Learned a lot and gave me some new insights!
What a comprehensive video, so well done! For us it has always been about transparency and communication, and we value feeling safe, loved and respected, so anything that betrays that is not okay. I'm a flirty person (never to achieve something more, but becauseit's fun), but when my now husband and I seriously committed to our relationship I took the flirting down a lot, because I didn't want to give the impression to others that I was disrespecting my partner, even when he said it was totally fine. So I would also caution other people to not only honor the boundaries and agreements made, but also to make the effort to check their own behaviors and intentions so that they aren't even questionable. Toying with the line is often more problematic than the acts themselves.
Im polyamorous and kinky. So for me, the only thing I'd consider cheating would be pursuing any type of relationship with someone, without communicating to me about it at some point. And same for me, if i had any type of relationship with someone, and i didn't tell my primary partner/s about it. And really, i don't care if a partner of mine were to have any form of relationship with someone else, as long as it was a safe decision, so as long as they were being safe and consensual, as long as they weren't going into a toxic relationship, as long as they weren't going back and forth with someone that they've expressly said that they don't like before, etc.
As a poly person I used to think about it a lot, especially back when I wasn't as good in communication as I'm now. One of the most painful things my ex did, was to go to cinema with his crush, without considering that I might have wanted to see that movie as well. Another interesting part was how my opennes changed with state of our relationship. When I knew all is good and he'll always be back, we were ok with almost anything. As soon as something was off between us, I was much more anxious and not ok with many things.
Cheating depends on what the contract is between the couple. I’ve had partners who think that flirting is cheating and partners who deem woman on woman sex acceptable.
I think the definition of cheating is doing something with someone else that breaks the unwritten (or perhaps written!) boundaries in your relationship. That is why no one particular thing counts as cheating. It's up to you and your partner to decide what the boundaries are.
For me, cheating begins when you start to hide things from your partner and I realised this from my last relationship. I had this illusion that we had great open communication but it turns out that although he was honest about a mistake he made when he went to a work pals birthday, drank a lot and done drugs and ended up kissing someone else and lying to me about his preferences. Although he told me this the day after, it didn’t make it right. It was then revealed to me he hidden other things he done. He was drunk on a night out and complimented my best friend on her looks (her breasts) and how much of a good friend she is. This made her uncomfortable because she’s lesbian and it angered me because how he made her feel. He also slept in the same bed as his best friend because she was upset about her boyfriend. I didn’t realise at the time but this is all cheating, and it’s cheating because we didn’t have that discussion and he hid them from me.
Yes, I, as a polya guy would also considder those things cheating in this context, especially the offensive comment to your lesbian best friend as that's a tripple betrayal: To not seek an agreement in the first place. The comment itself on someones body when, I presume, he knew she was only ever going to feel accosted and creeped out by it. The act of hiding it.
I think this kind of content is the highlight of your channel, similar to the „Sex and Disability“ video this was so well crafted and inclusive, just pure joy to watch :)
As a polyamorous person it is all about context and communication. And that someone's emotions may not necessarily reflect what you agreed. As people have the idea that if you are poly you don't get jealous which is wrong, it is about how you handle jealousy. Sp privacy is absolutely okay, I don't need a play by play, but secrecy is not it, whether you are unconsciously or consciously hiding information. Also not everything is exactly cheating but an issue regarding trust like how a partner's actions affect myself. If I feel like I am being ignored or cast aside for a new shiny person that hurts.
Wow, I don't know how I stumbled upon your channel. However, really love your videos and the "is it cheating if?" The poll was top-notch (thumbs up for youtubes video suggestion algorithm)🤭😂
its interesting how it being a lesbian relationship may have very different boundaries, is your girlfriend sharing a bed with her best friend (who is also lgbtq), i would say a lot of queer people would have no problem with that... in fact in my circles i think people would be surprised and taken aback if that were raised as an issue (not talking about someone who your girlfriend has sexual tension with)
As an ace man, I'm ok with my partner flirting, kissing, and having sex with other people, but only if they're strangers and if my partner tells me about it. So if a friend informed me that my partner had sex with someone from Tinder, it would be cheating, but if my partner told me about it, it wouldn't be. I don't need to know exactly what my partner did with this other person, but I just want to know that something happened/is going to happen. The other thing besides secrecy that I would consider cheating is emotional attachment. If my partner starts devoting their entire attention to another person, then it's cheating because I'm monogamous and need my partner to be romantically involved with me only.
I think the "we shared a bed but nothing happened" stat is so interesting, because I'd potentially wager that a decent proportion of people who said that yes, that is cheating, have a person in mind for who they really don't want their partner sharing a bed with. My gut reaction was "no, that's not cheating", but that's because I trust my boyfriend and there is no "that girl" that I'm wary of with him. However with my ex, I would be immediately suspicious. He had a tendency to get close with women who I (rightfully) thought had a romantic/sexual interest in him, and would be quite flirty with them. At the time I just thought he was a flirty, friendly person and though I didn't like it I just rationalised it as well, he's not physically doing anything wrong and it's just who he is. Now though, I think he deliberately sought attention from elsewhere because he was the kind of person to never be satisfied with what he had.
So me and my man need to have a chat now! Feel a bit paranoid 😬 but also realise this may be because I've assumed my conception of cheating is more universal than it really is - there is no universal definition and setting my boundaries and establishing his will be hugely beneficial. Realise too this is from a monogamous closed relationship perspective, but such a mine field!
Having feelings is out of your control and totally normal. Acting on those feelings, however, not ok. For me I don't tell my partner about any crushes I have because there's no point and will just hurt his feelings. I just indulge thinking about it sometimes, avoid any contact with the person other than in a friendly, very casual way, and wait for the feels to fade away naturally on their own.
Yeah... My husband and I once tried to tell each other who we had crushes on. As a kind of experiment, but it was kinda gut twisting. Now we are happy to hypothetically know the other does have crushes but we don't need to know who it is. It can just be apart of his internal life which he has every right to experience. Although, while you can enjoy having a good crush, it is a good idea to remain vigilant around that person. The constant vigilance does tend to let the feelings run their course pretty quickly
Thinking about these questions has made me appreciate how far the society I live in (UK) has come even in the last 50 odd years. It is acceptable and even encouraged to discuss boundaries like this and acceptable to leave a relationship if these boundaries are broken intentionally or unintentionally. In the community I grew up in (rural UK) there is an elderly married couple where the husband has a mistress. Everyone within the community knows her and her relationship with him and seems to feel pity for his wife. To my knowledge their marriage was arranged and she likely would not have been supported in leaving him due to infidelity. I am glad to see this imbalance of power within relationships coming to an end where one side of the relationship gets to set the boundaries (often different for each party and "benefitting" the boundary setter) and the other person has to agree and stay in the relationship due to financial dependency or out of fear of losing standing in the community or even the support of their family.
I can't be sure of this, but I think that if my partner cheated on me with a woman (I'm a man) it would still hurt, but kind of less. Why? Because they probably wanted something that I could not give to them. Now, of course it's still cheating and it hurts and I would most likely say farewell to them, but "at least" they were trying to have something different than what I have to offer.
I believe cheating is whenever there is a broken promise. I know I can't control the emotions and drives of the other person and I rather my partner include me in them. I would love to know and would celebrate being human with her. If she is having those sensations without my knowledge or at least letting me know the next chance she gets, then it is cheating. I hold myself to the same standard to my partner.
To the person at 13:44 - I agree with you, and I think it's because, to me, cheating is something that the other person does secretly. If they're flirting in front of you, then they're not trying to hide anything and so it was probably just an off-hand comment or a response to something that was said in the moment, and doesn't mean they have feelings for the person they were talking to. On the other hand, sexting occurs generally in secret - as the partner, you don't get to see it happening in real-time, and so it feels more pre-meditated and back-handed - they're trying to hide it because they do have feelings for the other person and don't want you to know about it. Not sure I've explained myself well there at all, but basically I think cheating is something people generally try to hide so if they're doing it in front of me I wouldn't be bothered, unless I started noticing any patterns in who it was with
Id like to add that sometimes you and your partner may not have the same views of whats cheating and whats not. I had to have this conversation with my partner not long ago because I was feeling unconfortable with his relationship with one of his friends. Its so hard to set boundaries without feeling like you are limiting your partners relationships with other people, but its so important to be open! In the end it was a very nice talk, he understood why I felt that way and changed the way he talks to her so they dont cross any of my lines. Respecting your partners boundaries even if they are not exactly like yours is sometimes necessary.
I personally have quite strong views and boundaries on what I would consider to be cheating. I highly value exclusivity in relationships, and anything that I would only do with my partner (ie: cuddling, hugging, kissing, sex, sexual pleasure, intimacy, etc), if done with someone else, I would consider cheating. For example, unlike most people, I consider porn to be cheating. The act of self pleasure to another person's body, actions, voice, sex, etc, would to me be considered as cheating. To me, it matters little whether it's a porn actress or your coworker, the result is similar: you are self pleasuring yourself to the visuals/sounds of another human being, which in my opinion is considered as an activity that is performed exclusively in a relationship. Of course, each kind of cheating holds a different degree of severity, to me, I would be more hurt by my partner sleeping with someone else than watching porn. But I would none the less be affected by what I would consider a breach of trust and betrayal. I'm well aware this is an unpopular opinion! To each their own! Edit: Generally speaking, I would say that anything you wouldn't do with YOUR partner in front of you, is probably something you shouldn't be doing in the first place. Of course, this is a generalization.
I agree 100%. It's bizarre to me that pornography is acceptable to some people while they simultaneously consider flirting to be cheating. Watching porn is seeking sexual gratification from another human being outside the relationship. If they were in the same room watching other naked people have sex from the sidelines while pleasuring themselves, would that be cheating? Or is it only acceptable if it's virtual? What about live cam-sex/porn? Where is the line drawn? Watching the intimate body parts of another person while masturbating is the definition of cheating. I don't see how anyone would be comfortable with that. Especially when done behind their partner's back or without their consent. If there is a healthy sex life in the relationship where both people's sexual needs are being met, yet one person STILL feels the need to seek sexual gratification from other people, they shouldn't be in a relationship.
@@NikkiNadine expecting my partner to be able to fulfill all of my human needs is an outrageous expectation. That's why I have friends, family, hobbies. And that is healthy. I think the same goes for ones sexual needs. I'm not polygamous, I do expect a degree of sexual loyalty. To me pron and masturbation are ways of expressing a sexual need. Not only a sexual need but an expression of bodily autonomy, I would feel deeply uncomfortable if my husband told me what I could and could not maaturbate to.
@@NikkiNadine It's very profitable for the porn industry for men to be radicalized and pornography normalized in society. Women are gaslighted by the industry and by men who use it about the real impacts of it. I'm personally against it now because of links to human trafficking and child sexual abuse. I don't want to date someone who just turns a blind eye to all these issues.
20:50 so many of my friends have dealt with this situation. They have asked for there to be a conversation if a partner is seeing someone else, but inevitably they find out by prompting their partner to disclose this information. I don't know why it's so hard for men to say "Hey I am going to go on a date with this person. Is there anything you need or want to feel comfortable with this" and then of course making intentional space afterwards to talk and reconnect.
Personally, I believe cheating is anything that violates the trust of your partner or goes against the agreements in your relationship. I also want to say that my thoughts on infidelity have dramatically changed in the last few years mostly due to the work of Esther Perel and Dan Savage. Esther is a licensed couples therapist and has a podcast "Where Do We Begin" where she works with anonymous couples through their issues and hearing her perspective and her sessions have really made me rethink my formerly black and white thinking on infidelity. Dan also has a podcast "The Savage Lovecast" and while I don't completely agree with his views on cheating, he gives really good advice to people with a huge range of relationship structures including poly, open, queer, etc. Hearing about these other people's perspectives and experiences has not only changed how I think about cheating but also how I envision my ideal relationship.
Hannah this video is so good. Love it. ❤️❤️❤️ some parts of the video are very triggering (in a good way!) and my partner and I have spoken about all of this and more. It’s interesting how no matter how much we talk about certain things we can still feel such strong emotions just thinking about it.
I found this so interesting, and I really had to think when doing the polls as well! A lot of the things I wouldn't say are acceptable, but I also wouldn't all them "cheating"! Side Note: I loved listening to everyone's accents here! X
About whether sharing your body/nudity is cheating: my partner and I have differing opinions on this. I view my body as a non-sexual thing, and so I would love the idea of potentially participating in nude art or thing like that. My partner, on the other hand, finds that nudity is something intimate that only we should share between ourselves. I respect his opinion and that defines our handling of the issue, however although this is a topic we settled some years ago, I am still stuck between feeling that it is right to respect his wishes and that I have lost or hidden away a part of my identity/value system/ability to express myself. Compromises are hard, but necessary, I guess.
Please don't take this as me being rude because that's not my intention at all but it sounds to me that you didn't actually compromise with your partner. A compromise should be both parties trying to meat somewhere in the middle that both people are comfortable with but it sounds like your partner said no and you just went along with that? Maybe it's time for another conversation where a better compromise could be made?
For me it's about open communication and boundary setting. It's also a commitment and time of life thing. In my early 20s I might have found myself "just sharing a bed" with someone after a party, but if I did that now, it would be a situation I'd have purposefully got myself into, and absolutely not the same.
I don’t think catching feelings is cheating, unless you act on those feelings. However, if you do catch feelings, the kindest and most respectful thing to do is to break up with whoever you’re dating if you know you have feelings for someone else.
I think that's a but extreme. My husband has caught feelings for other people before and it was nbd. The kind and respectful thing he did was stop hanging out with those people. Feelings get caught all the time, love is a choice.
@@TheEmmaHouli sorry for not clarifying. My comment was very much so dependent on context. I was leaning more towards the kind of feelings where you know you won’t break it off. Like, they’re strong and you know you’re gonna end up hurting the other person. A little crush here and there is nothing to worry about (especially for a married couple) and, as you said, best thing to do is just stop hanging out. However, if my boyfriend continued to hang around that person, knowing his feelings for them were only getting stronger and would continue to do so, I’d hope that he broke it off with me.
I've told my partner that I'm okay with them watching porn, but watching unethical porn is in my opinion kinda predetory (not if you are unaware that porn can be unethical, ofc) - and I would be very uncomfortable with that. Not cheating, I guess? But I felt it was relevant to the topic of this video
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm personally uncomfortable with calling feelings cheating. You can't choose how you feel but you can choose your actions. It's totally normal to have a crush but just don't pursue it. Keep the same boundaries you'd have with a friend/coworker with the person you have a crush on. Maybe it's just my history of trauma but trying to tell someone they can't feel something bc it's bad is just unrealistic and causes shame which breads resentment.
Totally agree
I had that thought. This goes back to the sexual attraction, desire, and arousal that Hannah discussed a few videos back. I've had crushes on people (sexual attraction) while I was in a relationship but because we were monogamous at the time I had no /desire/ to act on it. I knew I can't control how I feel but I could control my actions so I didn't act on those feelings and eventually they went away.
Crushes are 💯 not cheating. I think they are totally normal in long term relationships, and don't need to be shared (but obvs can if u and ur partner choose to be very open about that sort of thing)
100% I have crushes on ppl frequently and my partner and I talk openly about it. No judgement
I agree. However, if you have a crush on someone and you continue to seek out time/emotional connection with them, that’s an action, and is thus crossing a line. Is that line cheating? I don’t know, but it’s definitely a type of betrayal.
gift giving cheating immediately put my mind onto Alan Rickman's character in Love Actually!!! the perfect example
ooooh yessss!!! is it just a necklace????
yes! and also the guy Kate Winslet's character is in love with in the beginning of The Holiday!
Yes!!! I was thinking the same thing
@@hannahwitton
hello I have an alert message about webscams they count as cheating people with lies and misleading advertisements messages. so here are two of them.
Publishers Clearing House.
Delilah Bell work from home program.
the important thing to know is avoiding them so they can't get money from you my sister and I have dealt with scams before many years ago.
Do you think that necklace gift was a form of cheating? The "other woman" certainly wasn't respecting the boundaries of his marriage was she.
I do have a pretty big issue with not allowing your partner to masturbate. I think it's not ok to pressure your partner to be completely dependent on you sexually, just like it wouldn't be ok to pressure them to be completely dependent on you financially. In my relationship we've had several times where one of us had a lower libido because of mental health or other reasons and it tends to make the other person feel frustrated and rejected (we understand eachother's feelings but it can still be hard), and I can't imagine layering on top of that to forbid that person from even masturbating.
It can still be hard indeed. Also 69 likes right now so I wont change the number
For me, a polyamorous person I would say cheating is going against the agreements in the relationship, but also the unspoken agreements. For example if you know your partner would be really upset if you flirted with another person then don’t do it or you are cheating on them. For me the entire thing is based on the boundaries that are clear in your relationship. Any grey areas I would use the judgement of would you be upset if they did it? If yes, don’t do it. If no, bring it up and say “hey I wanna do this thing is that cool with you?” For example if you know you are a flirty drunk you could say to your partner “Hey, I know I tend to get really flirty when I’m drunk, does that bother you?” And then you can discuss that boundary
Another polya person here, and I'm fully of the same mind that the cheating is defined by the betrayal of trust in mutual agreements as well as not disclosing or concealing information or comitting unadressed actions that might have a negative effect on the trust those agreements rely on.
And it could be anything from habitually exhausting shared resources such as food or internet data volume in a shared payment plan to romantic or risky sexual interactions that could mean medical or financial or emotional endangerment to other partners.
Yeah same here. Not necessarily polyam but nonmanogamous, and I have the same definition.
Yup. I agree. I'm polyamorous...most of what I would consider cheating would be a partner purposefully hiding a relationship or sexual encounter from me. Otherwise, breaking boundaries is something I wouldn't always consider cheating (depending on the boundary), but it can be a grey area for sure.
Yes healthy communication and boundary setting! 👏
I feel the hardest part of cheating is a perceived betrayal or deceit, open communication can certainly help avoid this.
I am pretty hecking monogamous just cos I want a connection with 1 person and for no other reason. And to me this is the same situation. Ie. If they are not okay with me watching porn and I agree to that boundary (I don't) then I wouldn't watch porn, and if I didn't agree and didn't want to make that sacrifice for the relationship then I would just not be with that person. So if me and my partner say flirting is fine then flirting is fine. We don't let ourselves be forced into the constraints society tells us we should have but only the constraints that we are comfortable with.
This is so important. ‘Cheating’ is so often thought of as a black-and-white concept which clearly doesn’t work considering how often someone feels like a boundary has been breached or trust has been broken, and the defence is ‘nothing actually happened’. The reality is that something did happen to make you uncomfortable, even if it’s not sex, and that’s why it’s important to discuss what you consider to be okay or not okay in your relationship!
For me, cheating begins when you know you can't tell the other person. And also I always make sure that my partner and I regularly have a conversation about our boundaries.
EDIT: As a polyamorous aroace, this is wild.
EDIT 2: OMG there's a guy!!!!!!!
I agree :) however, I realise it's not always so straightforward, not for everyone at least. My boyfriend, for example, is very introverted and often feels uncomfortable talking about private things. We have a lovely relationship and we talk a lot but I know it takes him some time to find the right moment and words to open up. It's not always easy for me as my motto is "clear question, honest answer" but I know he will eventually tell me, when he feels ready.
One thing I would say is that even if I dont consider something "cheating", doesnt mean I wouldnt feel a bit hurt or confused if my partner did something. For example, I dont consider watching porn cheating by any means, but if I found out theyd been doing it a lot in secret I'd feel confused about why they feel the need, if hes not satisfied with me etc. I think cheating can be such a strong word, but that doesnt mean that something that isn't literally cheating isn't hurtful. So, as you say, having an open discussion is key because that grey area of not cheating doesnt mean you feel entirely happy or comfortable with it.
i always worry because my boyfriend does not watch porn that often and feel like i am "responsible" for his sexual needs (even if he says he is happy). it's so interesting how different people feel about stuff.
@@DasMieps my worry is, if he does not watch a lot of porn is it because out long term relationships has killed his sexual drive.
@@TheEmmaHouli I think it depends on certain factors. If he is older sometimes the sex drive slows down. Watching porn can slow down a sex drive. I have been in the same marriage almost 50 years and since certain things change as you age like her parts don't get as much natural lubrication it gets dry and I know it could be painful for her (I don't really know the best way to talk about using lube) so I mainly do oral on her. She doesn't really have good oral skills so I don't complain and kinda try and be glad that she tries once in a while because again I feel like if I complain about her ability she will just be like hurt and not want to try anymore and since she is a survivor of abuse that makes it tough and I am not sure she really likes that anyway and is now just trying to do it out of a sense of duty. For many years she would not even do oral at all so it's complicated. I had a father who cheated and so I have sometimes felt the need and felt justified but having seen the damage it does to the other person have chosen to not be that person. This is my experience and I use porn from time to time to help smooth things out and at 70 sex isn't as important as it was long ago. There is no right and wrong amount of sex or porn usage etc unless it is extreme like all the time but then there is underlying causes to that.
the gift giving comment just immediately made me think of Love Actually, please tell me you were thinking of that too 😅
Oh my god yes! 'was it just a necklace or was it sex and a necklace or was it a necklace and love' I thought of that too!
YES! Literally first thing that popped in my head!
Yup, exactly what I thought 😂
Yes. Ew. Yes.
Cheating = everything intentionally hidden from the partner.
Also if it's temporary, like preparing a surprise party/gift?
@@barvdw No, that's something hidden to be shown.
Unless that’s what you’ve agreed upon. Like “I’m ok with you sleeping with other people, I just don’t want to know who/when”
@@Cakingit213 "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". I can see that going wrong sooner or later, to be honest.
@@barvdw depends on the couple and the amount of trust that exists. For example, I don’t mind if my partner watches porn, I just don’t want to know about it. I know people in poly relationships who have a similar rule, they only want to know that they are busy, but trust that they will stay within the rules they have set up.
It's also important to note that something doesn't have to be cheating to make your partner uncomfortable. Strip clubs are a great example of something that might often fall into this category, where you and your partner don't consider it to be cheating, but you still have decided not to attend them. Communication is the most important thing in relationships regardless of how you label things.
I think cheating is crossing your partners boundaries while knowing what the boundaries are and betraying your partner while knowing you are. To me cheating can be as small as texting someone, if it's secretive and is being hidden then they know that what they are doing is wrong within the relationship. These things always take discussion at the beginning of the relationship as some partners can be manipulative and controlling and not allow you to go see your own mother without saying that you are cheating. You are not responsible for your partners mental health or emotions, you cannot rely on your partner for the same, you can only support and understand
In my head flirting is not cheating, but if you intentionally meet up with somebody to flirt with I would class that as cheating.
hmnmmm yessss there's something potentially innocent about the spontaneity of flirting but if it's pre-arranged like meeting up or flirting over text that might feel different???
I use the phrase ‘second look’. If in the moment you find someone that isn’t a partner attractive and subconsciously flirt with them or visually admire them then in my mind that’s ok. That’s being a human with sexual desire. If you intentionally take a second look or continue to flirt and/or look at them then within my relationship that would be cheating
Yeah surely intentionally meeting up to flirt is just a date, no? 😅
@@claudiajade624 hah, that’s true. Like even if you don’t say it’s a date...you sure it isn’t a date, hun?
My partner and I are very chill in general, and over quarantine we've been living with a bunch of friends whilst in college. Some nights when people would get drunk ona night in (I personally don't drink, but my partner does) we'd play spin the bottle or truth or dare and certain sexual acts would come up (like kissing or spanking someones ass). I'd always ask my partner and he would always ask me if these things were okay to do with other people, and I always said yes because it was all good fun and nothing serious. However, one night I left the group early to go to bed, and the next morning my partner recalled the night to me when I asked and he casually mentioned that he'd ended up kissing two of our friends. He assumed he had permission because I'd given permission before. I was quite hurt because 1. I wasnt there to judge what the mood of the night was and whether my partner was really interested in kissing a certain person, which I would count as cheating, and 2. we'd set the boundary that we always asked permission. He didn't try to hide it or lie about it, but I didn't feel like that was the point in this specific instance. His didn't intend to hurt me, but like you say in the video, it's about how the partner feels and whether there is a feeling of betrayal or break of trust. He apologised profusely when I brought it up and we got past it easily enough, but it made me think about the need for context in these situations. If I were in the room and knew what the mood was I wouldn't have cared. But because I was unaware I felt left out and undesired.
I think I've would have felt the same:)
It would be interesting to know the gender split concerning the 'is it cheating' poll results.
Hannah's hair looks really good.
For future reference, I (and a lot
of others!) LOVE POLLS AND QUIZZES!
Me too!! I feel a sense of glee when I see them!
Seems pretty clear-cut to me. Cheating would be when you're breaking the parameters of the relationship. The only issue I see with this definition is if those parameters are unclear, but I'd say then it falls back on the people in the relationship to be be more up front and clear about what they want.
100% agree. Also there needs to be the option to renegotiate those parameters.
@@papayasaf5134 for sure. Communication is vital at all times in a relationship!
I definitely agree with this, in a perfect, logical world. But not only might the parameters of the relationship not have been clearly agreed upon like you mentioned, but there are just so many different situations to cover, which might also have different meanings because of their unique context. So I think what needs to be added is the emotional element and the "going by the spirit not the letter of the agreement" which Hannah mentions at the end of the video. You have to keep in mind how your actions will make the other person feel and check in often in those grey-area cases.
It's only a 'topic' because people aren't used to discussing relationship boundaries.
My husband flirts with his male friends all the time. It was something he did with them before I was in the picture and it's major part if their relationship.
@Christopher Grant Guys need their guys. I wish that more men were open/ able to be open about needing they type of touchy feely relationships that are usually associated with females.
I was clearly third wheeling all the time if I was hanging out with my ex and his best friend, both straight guys in relationships. He would pick up the phone and say hi babe to him, he never called me babe.
I dont think thats done in a sexual nature though
One thing that I find frustrating about the idea of emotional cheating is that I think it’s very normal to have friends from the opposite sexual identity and a lot of the time these friendships are sexualised or romanticised and I think it’s really damaging. Obviously it’s case dependent and people in relationships need to be able to have those honest conversations, but I think automatically assuming that it’s cheating is really limiting
People might have a series of relationships in their lifetime, and if they have to stop being friends with people to appease their different partners, it’s just sad
For me at least, I don’t want to get all my emotional support/intimacy from one person, even if my partner is the main connection in my life
I'm not trying to start something or break people up, I'm not Daniel Sloss.- Hannah Witton
Yess, so happy with that reference
Love Daniel Sloss, I love when he gives updates on how many people has has managed to break up.
I think it’s interesting that the context of this conversation is based around a “primary partner.” I think it would be interesting to see the perspective of a secondary partner and their idea of cheating.(ie agreeing to use condoms with other partners and not, not getting tested after agreeing to etc.)
Sadly exactly this happened to me a few weeks ago and I still can't handle it quite right.
So my husband is poly and has a girlfriend, we agreed he can have so much sex he wants with her if he uses condoms but this one time a few weeks ago he hasn't used one, she let him totally do it with her consent. After he came home from her he immediately told me about it. I was in shock and couldn't think of anything I could say to him. A few days later I told him I want him to get tested and don't want any sexuell contact with him and don't want that he sees the other woman until this isn't cleared between us. This was 4 weeks ago I still don't want sex with him and can't say if I am okay with him seeing the other woman again. I feel betrayed 😔 don't know how to handle it further
Sorry for any typos I am not native in English.
@@Vapura94 If you feel betrayed that is completely valid! Talk to him and if he doesn't respect that or won't respect it in the future, respect yourself first and firmly stick to that!!
I would love to see a follow-up video that goes more into the aftermath. What happens in a relationship to deal with an experience of cheating? If you've (accidentally or otherwise) cheated on your partner, how do you deal with that? How do you process your feelings, both on your own and together? How do you get into a new relationship safely and honestly if your previous one ended due to cheating? We often judge cheating very harshly as a society and this video just proves that it's so much more complex and context-based, but this still only talks mostly from the perspective of the partner who got cheated on/before it even happens. I would love more openness and a better conversation on the topic with regards to 'what if it *does* happen, how do you deal with it.' (p.s. on the same note, how do you deal with accidentally sexually harassing someone? especially in a society where you can be canceled and demonized because of it)
Ester Perel would be a good resource for you.
She deals a lot with affairs and the aftermath thereof
Also Hannah in previous videos has no sympathy for people who cheat
I've been emotionally cheated on for sure and once I actually was the home wrecker in a situation. I totally didn't mean to be but it was very interesting being on the other side of the coin. I slept with someone who told me he was in an open relationship so it was fine, but he lied and actually the terms of his relationship were he can only sleep with others if his bf was there with him. It was super awkward when he admitted that he cheated on his bf with me and it did end with his bf breaking up with him. I don't think I personally did anything wrong since I was mislead but it was definitely a weird moral grey area that I had to sit with for a while.
I stayed with my ex for 4 years after I found out he was cheating with a work colleague. In those 4 years I caught him sexting many other women, destroying any self esteem I had but stayed as I thought no one else could ever want me. I was ashamed of staying with him and getting let down time and time again (family only knew of the 1st instance), but finally had enough when I caught him sexting whilst I was in hospital.
Thankfully with my Fiancé now we have had many conversations about my boundaries and he respects them!!
I’m so sorry you had that experience! I think it brings up a very good point, something being done when you are vulnerable, ex: in the hospital, super stressed, grieving someone, just had a baby etc. Whatever is done in those circumstances makes it SO much worse in my eyes!
Had a similar situation myself and totally understand the shame of staying with someone after you find out they were cheating.
The person I’m with now talked about my previous relationship with me and educated me on what gas lighting was 👏🏼
I totally understand. I found out my bf at the time had cyber sex with many girls. He didn't consider it cheating and called me stupid. I felt very betrayed but I still stayed with him. I tjought nobody wants me. Until he dumped me because he wanted to have sex with these girls. To this day I deal with trust issues and was not able to get into a new relationship.
i knew my ex was cheating on me for 5 years, and constantly called it out. stayed anyway because i felt like i had to and it was my fault for being jealous
Glad hear that Hannah Couch!!
I’m aroace and I always thought cheating was super clear cut (sex, making out, or a date, nothing else) and this video has filled me with confusion, fear, and gratitude that I never have to think about this lmao. I’m so sorry y’all this sounds hard
I was one of the few who said that watch porn is cheating. However this is just “average”. My partner and I have discussed that we are ok with the other watching porn under certain circumstances that we have agreed upon (even if they are different), and we have agreed with them, the basic rule being that if you are choosing porn over your partner (spending sexual and non sexual time with them).
There's also some stuff that I wouldn't class as cheating but I would be really hurt or angry if it happened. I wouldn't say my partner flirting with someone in front of me as cheating but I feel that's not nice!
Some! It’s not cheating, but im still not okay with it and, if I told them and they continued to do it, I would break up with them. It’s not cheating, but they’re constantly making me feel uncomfortable.
So not in front of you is better?
It depends on the type of flirting. Hubby knows I'll *flirt* with an eighty year old woman. Out of fun and silliness. He knows I'd never flirt where it seems like serious intent could be implied or assumed. Neither would he. If we wanted freedom to flirt, we'd of remained single.
I love this style of video including people’s personal accounts! For future videos of a similar format I would be interested to see a few more male perspectives and if they highlight any differences
My ex had a crush on a colleague and went on a date with him without my knowledge. She claims they never did anything, but it still felt like cheating. It was emotional cheating simply. Never apologized or recognized that it hurt me. She dumped me shortly after. A shit end to a good 7 years.
For me if it was a date as opposed to just a drink between colleagues then I would 100% count that as cheating. There is a difference in my opinion. :)
I think what I take from this is everything relies on context and communication. What can be seen as X by one person can be seen as Y by another. Apples and oranges. End of the day they're both fruit and people have preferences and opinons towards them.
For my fiance and I cheating is anything with another person that is outside of the boundaries of friendship. He and I both have friends and we all know eachother. Everyone is aquainted and there are no secrets.
I keep feeling guilty, reading these comments being like “no, I wouldn’t want my boyfriend doing that. No, I don’t want him flirting - I don’t think it’s cheating but I definitely would be hurt by it.” And stuff like that. I really appreciate this comment, made me feel better.
@@needtopoonow308 If you don't know the song "Runaround Sue" by Dion, maybe check it out. That song is just amazing because it is anti-cheating. Makes me get up and dance every time.
@@atc35012 I will! Thanks for the recommendation!
I think seeing my partner flirt with someone in front of me would make me feel comfortable and yeah like that person in one of the voice notes said it’s like funny but also quite attractive so the idea that they could flirt with someone else and be perceived as attractive to someone else makes me see them as even more attractive like the idea that they could easily attract anyone else and easily be with anyone else but they are choosing to be with me
Totally agree that everything depends on agreement between the partners. I’m a very curious person and love talking to people and it might seem flirting to some because I genuinely am interested in people and like to tease them in a friendly way. I have discussed this with my partner and explained that there is no sexual intension nor desire in all of the interaction and they now feel more secure after knowing this.
Communication is the key~!
13:17 That would depend. If my lover had a crush on the other person I would be suspicious of the whole situation. If the other person had a crush on my lover but I knew it wasn't mutual at all I wouldn't be worried. Well, I wouldn't be worried as far as my relationship was concerned. I'd want to check in that my lover wasn't leading them on, and the other person was fully aware their feelings weren't mutual.
Thanks for this, Hannah. In my first marriage, I was the victim of emotional infidelity for most of the 19 years we were married (she admitted this). She had emotional attractions and attachments to multiple men. She says she never acted physically/sexually on these feelings, and I believe her (for reasons I won't go into here). But as our marriage was ending, she admitted to strong romantic feelings for others, which explains a lot of things I didn't understand earlier in our marriage. She was never fully invested emotionally in our marriage. Yes, I bear some responsibility for this, and I understand what and why, but I still think what she did was cheating, and she lied about it for nearly 19 years.
I find it important to distinguish the difference between feeling discomfort and feeling you have been cheated on, many of the things listed are things that would make me uncomfortble but not regard as cheating. It is important what frequensy and intentions it is done with.
Very interesting. I am 73 and for me a successful relationship is not worth the cheating for a momentary pleasure. A long term, loving relation ship is a gift and something to be treasured. If one is in that kind of deep relationship, why would anyone cheat? You would want to nurture that kind of love, not wreck it or hurt your partner by testing boundaries.
I think at its core, definition of cheating is very simple: to deliberately and knowingly breaking agreed-upon (implicit or explicit) rules of a relationship.
This also covers non-romantic relationships you can also "cheat on" other people in your life by:
-Telling a friend's dark secret to other people
-Abusing a family member's trust
-Collaborating with your employer's competitor for personal monetary gain
-Neglecting a pet
-Disobeying standing orders as a member of the military or police
-Working as a double agent for a hostile foreign power
etc. etc.
When doing the poll I had the thought about context with each question so it was a bit hard to answer! Eg. “yes but only when..” “no but if...” in the end, context and the specific boundaries in each relationship matter.
Deliberate secrecy or doing something that you know would upset or humiliate your partner if they knew, is definitely cheating, but specifically what within that is contextual. Really interesting video.
This is crazy to me. The cheating is only when it’s a secret...considering wanting to spend time with someone else or having a crush cheating is absolutely crazy to me.
Yeah, those sound far more like big red flags of controlling entitlement personalities to me as we litterally can not control our thoughts and emotions, only our actions and intent.
Wanting to spend time with someone else sounds like FRIENDSHIP!! Terrifying honestly
@@wearepublicdepends on why they want to spend time with them, what's happening and what the significance of their relationship is..
As to crushing, both my husband and I would find that to be cheating. But that's what we mutually agreed to.
We're crazy then. Hubby wouldn't be happy if had a crush on another. It would devastate him, me as well if he did.
You set the rules at the start of a relationship, and breaking those rules is cheating, whatever those rules may be.
And yes, I do think I've just expertly shown why I'm still single. 😂 It's the easy answer in theory, but I doubt many people would like the idea to sit down and boringly define clear rules for a relationship during a time when everything is supposed to be romantic and wonderful, so it probably doesn't work in practice. Still can't help but think many relationships would benefit from being more clearly defined though, rather than never defining what the relationship is and just going with the societal standard...
@Christopher Grant I think so too. Having those rules set in stone would only serve to hurt the relationship, I imagine, so there should be the ability to revisit them and change the rules if needed.
This is really interesting because, like you said, setting those boundaries and clearly communicating can sometimes cause more harm than good, and may be really inappropriate to integrate. Sometimes it's hard to see boundaries as the priority, even though they obviously are!
This video has earned my subscription. This is the single best video I have yet seen on the topic and that includes Dr. Esther Perel's talks and the talks by Dan Savage.
Bottom line, it boils down to respecting and honoring yourself, your partner, and the relationship you two share. If you cannot honor all 3 at the same time, then perhaps it is best to part ways.
Edit 2: Honor is one of those nebulous words that can be so hard to define and nail down. To me, honor is is about being honest, possessing integrity, and good moral judgement.
I think context and intention is really important like you kept saying. A lot of the scenarios I wouldn't consider "cheating," but I'd definitely think I would want to know the the context and intention and desire behind the act. I think trusting the bond in the relationship really helps with understanding that not everything is a threat to your relationship.
So excited to hear your take on this! ❤️ ❤️ Thank you for making videos on all of these lesser discussed topics! I used to see this as a very clear line too but my views have very much changed as I've grown up.
same!
@@hannahwitton I appreciate the variety of people you have featured in this video. So many different opinions.
Also to answer the question does technology make people that wouldn't cheat more likely to cheat, I feel like cheating has been around long before technology. Before sexting people wrote letters, before driving cars to midnight booty calls I'm sure people just saddled up horses or walked. Infidelity is hella old.
@Christopher Grant maybe in some cases, in other cases the cloud makes it easier to find. It's all so subjective and really depends on the person and situation. There are plenty of examples currently of people that share a phone/technology with their partners or don't have technology available to them at all and they still find ways to cheat (I mean maybe that's more difficult in the pandemic idk, but where there is a will they'll find a way).
Thank you, Bronwen, Eloise, Tracey and Matthew
In regards to feeling like you need to hide something, I think you also need to consider the health of that relationship. I once dated a very controlling person and would have to hide when I spoke to certain friends or family. While this was not cheating it was a break of his trust. Personally however, I believe it was trust that was okay to break and eventually breaking that trust led to us breaking up, which we were both better off for.
Since you asked about other cultures - I'm not Korean but I'm living and dating in South Korea. Being careful not to generalise, bc of course people have different boundaries regardless of where they're from - but boundaries seem a lot tighter here in general. I've experienced things like guys wanting me to send photos when I'm with friends to make sure I'm only with girls (I'm bi, so I'm not sure how that works) and people seem much quicker to accuse one another of cheating here in general. Jealousy is considered a way of showing affection among a lot of Koreans, especially younger adults. Dating also moves much quicker - so usually you only talk to one person at a time and move to the relationship label in 3/4 dates. For me, who expects dating to be talking to multiple people, THEN being mutual after a while and moving to a relationship after a longer period - boundaries on what is and isn't cheating are very difficult to navigate while making sure everyone is comfortable and trusting.
Aside from what you tell/don't tell your primary partner, I think there should be discussion about boundaries when it comes to other partners or casual encounters. For example, I would feel cheated on if I did something romantic or sexual with someone, and only found out later that they had a partner, regardless of whether that encounter was considered cheating in the context of their relationship. Being open and having discussions isn't just for the "primary" relationship.
I would say it still comes down to a Fidelity agreement kind of like (I hate to call it this) a contract, if you do what's you've talked about with your partner in the agreement it's fine but if you do something outside of that agreement then you're breaking the contract you're cheating!! I love you very much Hannah and I hope you had fun doing this cuz I know I had fun listening to the whole video take care and have a great week!!
Good one Hannah I'd say that's the best thing is don't hide anything don't try and keep a secret of what you might have done with someone else tell your partner if you have feelings towards someone and vice versa
Personally in my own relationship what I would consider cheating is an ongoing romantic or sexual relationship with another person (whether in person or online) without telling me.
If my partner kisses or has sex with random strangers it doesn't bother me but if it's an ongoing thing it changes from being an isolated experience that happens to involve another person to an actual relationship.
So for me a one night stand wouldn't ever be cheating but regular sexting/flirting with someone could be even if they never meet irl.
The bisexuality answers made me lowkey think I'm doing this bisexuality thing wrong because I would always consider me kissing anyone outside my relationship as cheating and I'd feel icky about my straight male partner saying me kissing a girl wouldn't count as cheating for him. It really plays into this stereotype about bi girls. Not a judgement toward the bi girls talking btw (🧡) it's just something I noticed I feel differently about. 😌
I totally understand where you're coming from and agree that this would be weird to hear from a straight male partner. At least to me, it seemed like Hannah framed the video to approach the idea that "kissing guys is cheating while kissing girls is not" as an illogical gut feeling that some people have, and I agree with that. There are definitely people who feel that way, and I personally don't agree with it and find it kind of gross and invalidating, but it's ultimately up to them whether they want to examine those feelings and opinions or not, and up to their partners whether they're okay with that view.
And I totally don't think you're doing bisexuality wrong!
The more I watch of this the more polyamorous I feel. Which I've never tried, I've just been reflecting on how every time I've not cheated it wasn't because I felt like I was doing something wrong, but because I knew that whatever I could've done would have hurt my partner. And I'm not sure if I should keep adjusting my life to fit whoever I'm dating. I also never felt like cheating would make me love my partner less. I'm just really comfortable with intimacy I think.
Also I know you mention years ago about how you're considering going back to academia and I highly encourage you to consider this again as this was so well done and you gathered and analysed data amazingly!
My thoughts on this really have to do with communication. My partner and I haven't set specific guidelines around cheating or not cheating, but have agreed on which situations need to be openly communicated. The context is very important and we need to both agree on something being ok before one of us partakes in something like say, kissing, going on a casual date, or even sex.
We still have different opinions on what is ok and what is not, but have very much come to terms with that. For example, my partner doesn't really care for making out, so he is fine with me making out with someone else, as long as I discuss it with him first and he knows that that person will be respectful toward me. I, on the other hand, would be very hurt if he kissed someone else because I know it's something he only does with someone when he is very comfortable and closely attached to them.
As someone stated in their submission, I think the more you build a communicative foundation in the relationship, the more comfortable you'll be come with exploring the physical and emotional boundaries around monogamy or non-monogamy.
Such an interesting conversation! For me I always classed cheating as emotionally, physically or verbally engaging with someone in a way that would make your primary partner/partners uncomfortable or break trust with them.
I always assumed that for it to be cheating, it would involve another person. I had never considered things like lying about birth control as cheating, but more as just outright lies and dishonesty - and therefore not a good realitionship, but perhaps it is a form of cheating?
Either way these things should always be discussed with whomever you're engaging with! Great topic!!
The biggest separation for me even in situations with context is when it's cheating and when it's simply a lack of communication going on about what that partner wants.
Context is so important. I slept in the same bed as my male housemate because his pregnant sister was in a car crash and his brother in law stayed over at our house to be close to the hospital so my housemate gave up his bed for him. I checked with my boyfriend that it was okay and I had no emotional or sexual feelings towards my housemate whatsoever, I just wanted to help him out in a bad time.
Cheating begins when the relationship agreement has been broken because everyone has their own definition. So it is very important to have the hard honest talk about what is the boundaries of your relationship. You must be open in this talk and not get offended by what might be said. Also sometimes depending on where you are in this relationship and the character of you and your partner. Example…I am a people person and love people and can easily talk to people especially females with no sexual intent in mind. I understand boundaries etc.
Very interesting convo! I would personally agree with the guy who said cheating is any sexual act thats done without your partner's awareness/consent. I dont think you need to label all behaviour that makes you feel uncomfortable or unhappy cheating but that doesn't mean you don't have a right to feel what you do and it should definitely be discussed if thats the case!
I'm also very surprised to see to see so many people say they consider doing ANYTHING without your partners consent cheating. Just because you're in a relationship with someone doesn't mean either of you should lose your autonomy. People can't help feelings or thoughts and have a right to their own privacy aswell.
Consenting adults in a relationship are their own people and you can't expect to control someone's every behaviour in order to make yourself feel comfortable. Their is a level of trust that needs to be given in any relationship and open communication.
I personally think the defining moment of cheating is lieing, even if it's not contiously. You can give a friend a cuddle, be messaging someone at night or meeting up with them for lunch with nothing seedy going on. If you feel you can be open about it and your partner knows thats a good sign that everything is above board. But the second you're hiding that message, meeting up with someone secretly, avoiding mentioning them etc I would classify that as a type of cheating. If you are doing something that you wouldn't do with your partner in the room... it's probably not right.
That being said I think there is a lot of pressure on people in monogamous relationships to NEVER find themselves having feelings for someone else. I don't think that's totally reasonable long term. But as long as you would still choose you partner over those around you, and again you aren't doing anything sneaky, I wouldn't classify a crush as cheating.
To me it is all about communicating with your partner about boundaries. Both me and my partner agree that flirting for fun is fine, but if we can't tell eachother about the fact we flirted with someone else we are properly getting out of bounds of eachothers comfort zones. So far we haven't had any real problems. However we'll properly take it up as our relationship progress (even though we have been together for 3.5 years and are doing pretty good)
I just found your channel and this is exactly what I needed. Im in my early 20s and currently in my first real relationship and had to abandon a lot of misconceptions about relationships I unknowingly had. Thank you for you videos
Hey @Hannahwitton. I just noticed that i got a commercial for a pickup artist befor the video. I do not know if you can change or not, but i imagine that pickup artists is not something you want on your brand. Loved this video btw! Learned a lot and gave me some new insights!
What a comprehensive video, so well done! For us it has always been about transparency and communication, and we value feeling safe, loved and respected, so anything that betrays that is not okay. I'm a flirty person (never to achieve something more, but becauseit's fun), but when my now husband and I seriously committed to our relationship I took the flirting down a lot, because I didn't want to give the impression to others that I was disrespecting my partner, even when he said it was totally fine. So I would also caution other people to not only honor the boundaries and agreements made, but also to make the effort to check their own behaviors and intentions so that they aren't even questionable. Toying with the line is often more problematic than the acts themselves.
This
Im polyamorous and kinky. So for me, the only thing I'd consider cheating would be pursuing any type of relationship with someone, without communicating to me about it at some point. And same for me, if i had any type of relationship with someone, and i didn't tell my primary partner/s about it. And really, i don't care if a partner of mine were to have any form of relationship with someone else, as long as it was a safe decision, so as long as they were being safe and consensual, as long as they weren't going into a toxic relationship, as long as they weren't going back and forth with someone that they've expressly said that they don't like before, etc.
As a poly person I used to think about it a lot, especially back when I wasn't as good in communication as I'm now. One of the most painful things my ex did, was to go to cinema with his crush, without considering that I might have wanted to see that movie as well.
Another interesting part was how my opennes changed with state of our relationship. When I knew all is good and he'll always be back, we were ok with almost anything. As soon as something was off between us, I was much more anxious and not ok with many things.
Cheating is breaking the rules. So communicate with your partner, set boundaries that make you comfortable and agree to boundaries you can keep.
Cheating is what is not agreed upon in a relationship and removes trust
Cheating depends on what the contract is between the couple.
I’ve had partners who think that flirting is cheating and partners who deem woman on woman sex acceptable.
I think the definition of cheating is doing something with someone else that breaks the unwritten (or perhaps written!) boundaries in your relationship. That is why no one particular thing counts as cheating. It's up to you and your partner to decide what the boundaries are.
For me, cheating begins when you start to hide things from your partner and I realised this from my last relationship. I had this illusion that we had great open communication but it turns out that although he was honest about a mistake he made when he went to a work pals birthday, drank a lot and done drugs and ended up kissing someone else and lying to me about his preferences. Although he told me this the day after, it didn’t make it right. It was then revealed to me he hidden other things he done. He was drunk on a night out and complimented my best friend on her looks (her breasts) and how much of a good friend she is. This made her uncomfortable because she’s lesbian and it angered me because how he made her feel. He also slept in the same bed as his best friend because she was upset about her boyfriend. I didn’t realise at the time but this is all cheating, and it’s cheating because we didn’t have that discussion and he hid them from me.
Yes, I, as a polya guy would also considder those things cheating in this context, especially the offensive comment to your lesbian best friend as that's a tripple betrayal:
To not seek an agreement in the first place.
The comment itself on someones body when, I presume, he knew she was only ever going to feel accosted and creeped out by it.
The act of hiding it.
I think this kind of content is the highlight of your channel, similar to the „Sex and Disability“ video this was so well crafted and inclusive, just pure joy to watch :)
As a polyamorous person it is all about context and communication. And that someone's emotions may not necessarily reflect what you agreed. As people have the idea that if you are poly you don't get jealous which is wrong, it is about how you handle jealousy. Sp privacy is absolutely okay, I don't need a play by play, but secrecy is not it, whether you are unconsciously or consciously hiding information. Also not everything is exactly cheating but an issue regarding trust like how a partner's actions affect myself. If I feel like I am being ignored or cast aside for a new shiny person that hurts.
Wow, I don't know how I stumbled upon your channel. However, really love your videos and the "is it cheating if?"
The poll was top-notch (thumbs up for youtubes video suggestion algorithm)🤭😂
this makes me feel more validated in saying my ex cheated on me
its interesting how it being a lesbian relationship may have very different boundaries, is your girlfriend sharing a bed with her best friend (who is also lgbtq), i would say a lot of queer people would have no problem with that... in fact in my circles i think people would be surprised and taken aback if that were raised as an issue (not talking about someone who your girlfriend has sexual tension with)
As an ace man, I'm ok with my partner flirting, kissing, and having sex with other people, but only if they're strangers and if my partner tells me about it. So if a friend informed me that my partner had sex with someone from Tinder, it would be cheating, but if my partner told me about it, it wouldn't be. I don't need to know exactly what my partner did with this other person, but I just want to know that something happened/is going to happen.
The other thing besides secrecy that I would consider cheating is emotional attachment. If my partner starts devoting their entire attention to another person, then it's cheating because I'm monogamous and need my partner to be romantically involved with me only.
I think the "we shared a bed but nothing happened" stat is so interesting, because I'd potentially wager that a decent proportion of people who said that yes, that is cheating, have a person in mind for who they really don't want their partner sharing a bed with. My gut reaction was "no, that's not cheating", but that's because I trust my boyfriend and there is no "that girl" that I'm wary of with him. However with my ex, I would be immediately suspicious. He had a tendency to get close with women who I (rightfully) thought had a romantic/sexual interest in him, and would be quite flirty with them. At the time I just thought he was a flirty, friendly person and though I didn't like it I just rationalised it as well, he's not physically doing anything wrong and it's just who he is. Now though, I think he deliberately sought attention from elsewhere because he was the kind of person to never be satisfied with what he had.
So me and my man need to have a chat now! Feel a bit paranoid 😬 but also realise this may be because I've assumed my conception of cheating is more universal than it really is - there is no universal definition and setting my boundaries and establishing his will be hugely beneficial. Realise too this is from a monogamous closed relationship perspective, but such a mine field!
Having feelings is out of your control and totally normal. Acting on those feelings, however, not ok. For me I don't tell my partner about any crushes I have because there's no point and will just hurt his feelings. I just indulge thinking about it sometimes, avoid any contact with the person other than in a friendly, very casual way, and wait for the feels to fade away naturally on their own.
Yeah... My husband and I once tried to tell each other who we had crushes on. As a kind of experiment, but it was kinda gut twisting.
Now we are happy to hypothetically know the other does have crushes but we don't need to know who it is. It can just be apart of his internal life which he has every right to experience.
Although, while you can enjoy having a good crush, it is a good idea to remain vigilant around that person. The constant vigilance does tend to let the feelings run their course pretty quickly
Thinking about these questions has made me appreciate how far the society I live in (UK) has come even in the last 50 odd years. It is acceptable and even encouraged to discuss boundaries like this and acceptable to leave a relationship if these boundaries are broken intentionally or unintentionally. In the community I grew up in (rural UK) there is an elderly married couple where the husband has a mistress. Everyone within the community knows her and her relationship with him and seems to feel pity for his wife. To my knowledge their marriage was arranged and she likely would not have been supported in leaving him due to infidelity. I am glad to see this imbalance of power within relationships coming to an end where one side of the relationship gets to set the boundaries (often different for each party and "benefitting" the boundary setter) and the other person has to agree and stay in the relationship due to financial dependency or out of fear of losing standing in the community or even the support of their family.
Seeing my face in this video is so surreal. Thanks so much for including my clip, I truly didn't expect it :)
I can't be sure of this, but I think that if my partner cheated on me with a woman (I'm a man) it would still hurt, but kind of less. Why? Because they probably wanted something that I could not give to them. Now, of course it's still cheating and it hurts and I would most likely say farewell to them, but "at least" they were trying to have something different than what I have to offer.
For me cheating is something that just makes me feel betrayed in my gut. I’m suuuuuuper open with my bf about my boundaries of cheating
I believe cheating is whenever there is a broken promise. I know I can't control the emotions and drives of the other person and I rather my partner include me in them. I would love to know and would celebrate being human with her. If she is having those sensations without my knowledge or at least letting me know the next chance she gets, then it is cheating. I hold myself to the same standard to my partner.
You've never looked better, and the topic was great. Well done. My wife and I had a few "debates".
To the person at 13:44 - I agree with you, and I think it's because, to me, cheating is something that the other person does secretly. If they're flirting in front of you, then they're not trying to hide anything and so it was probably just an off-hand comment or a response to something that was said in the moment, and doesn't mean they have feelings for the person they were talking to. On the other hand, sexting occurs generally in secret - as the partner, you don't get to see it happening in real-time, and so it feels more pre-meditated and back-handed - they're trying to hide it because they do have feelings for the other person and don't want you to know about it. Not sure I've explained myself well there at all, but basically I think cheating is something people generally try to hide so if they're doing it in front of me I wouldn't be bothered, unless I started noticing any patterns in who it was with
Id like to add that sometimes you and your partner may not have the same views of whats cheating and whats not. I had to have this conversation with my partner not long ago because I was feeling unconfortable with his relationship with one of his friends. Its so hard to set boundaries without feeling like you are limiting your partners relationships with other people, but its so important to be open! In the end it was a very nice talk, he understood why I felt that way and changed the way he talks to her so they dont cross any of my lines. Respecting your partners boundaries even if they are not exactly like yours is sometimes necessary.
Remember doing these polls. Also, love your vids! :)
I personally have quite strong views and boundaries on what I would consider to be cheating.
I highly value exclusivity in relationships, and anything that I would only do with my partner (ie: cuddling, hugging, kissing, sex, sexual pleasure, intimacy, etc), if done with someone else, I would consider cheating.
For example, unlike most people, I consider porn to be cheating. The act of self pleasure to another person's body, actions, voice, sex, etc, would to me be considered as cheating. To me, it matters little whether it's a porn actress or your coworker, the result is similar: you are self pleasuring yourself to the visuals/sounds of another human being, which in my opinion is considered as an activity that is performed exclusively in a relationship.
Of course, each kind of cheating holds a different degree of severity, to me, I would be more hurt by my partner sleeping with someone else than watching porn. But I would none the less be affected by what I would consider a breach of trust and betrayal.
I'm well aware this is an unpopular opinion! To each their own!
Edit: Generally speaking, I would say that anything you wouldn't do with YOUR partner in front of you, is probably something you shouldn't be doing in the first place. Of course, this is a generalization.
I agree 100%. It's bizarre to me that pornography is acceptable to some people while they simultaneously consider flirting to be cheating. Watching porn is seeking sexual gratification from another human being outside the relationship. If they were in the same room watching other naked people have sex from the sidelines while pleasuring themselves, would that be cheating? Or is it only acceptable if it's virtual? What about live cam-sex/porn? Where is the line drawn? Watching the intimate body parts of another person while masturbating is the definition of cheating. I don't see how anyone would be comfortable with that. Especially when done behind their partner's back or without their consent. If there is a healthy sex life in the relationship where both people's sexual needs are being met, yet one person STILL feels the need to seek sexual gratification from other people, they shouldn't be in a relationship.
@@NikkiNadine expecting my partner to be able to fulfill all of my human needs is an outrageous expectation. That's why I have friends, family, hobbies. And that is healthy. I think the same goes for ones sexual needs.
I'm not polygamous, I do expect a degree of sexual loyalty. To me pron and masturbation are ways of expressing a sexual need. Not only a sexual need but an expression of bodily autonomy, I would feel deeply uncomfortable if my husband told me what I could and could not maaturbate to.
@@NikkiNadine It's very profitable for the porn industry for men to be radicalized and pornography normalized in society. Women are gaslighted by the industry and by men who use it about the real impacts of it. I'm personally against it now because of links to human trafficking and child sexual abuse. I don't want to date someone who just turns a blind eye to all these issues.
20:50 so many of my friends have dealt with this situation. They have asked for there to be a conversation if a partner is seeing someone else, but inevitably they find out by prompting their partner to disclose this information. I don't know why it's so hard for men to say "Hey I am going to go on a date with this person. Is there anything you need or want to feel comfortable with this" and then of course making intentional space afterwards to talk and reconnect.
Personally, I believe cheating is anything that violates the trust of your partner or goes against the agreements in your relationship. I also want to say that my thoughts on infidelity have dramatically changed in the last few years mostly due to the work of Esther Perel and Dan Savage. Esther is a licensed couples therapist and has a podcast "Where Do We Begin" where she works with anonymous couples through their issues and hearing her perspective and her sessions have really made me rethink my formerly black and white thinking on infidelity. Dan also has a podcast "The Savage Lovecast" and while I don't completely agree with his views on cheating, he gives really good advice to people with a huge range of relationship structures including poly, open, queer, etc. Hearing about these other people's perspectives and experiences has not only changed how I think about cheating but also how I envision my ideal relationship.
Hannah this video is so good. Love it. ❤️❤️❤️ some parts of the video are very triggering (in a good way!) and my partner and I have spoken about all of this and more. It’s interesting how no matter how much we talk about certain things we can still feel such strong emotions just thinking about it.
I found this so interesting, and I really had to think when doing the polls as well! A lot of the things I wouldn't say are acceptable, but I also wouldn't all them "cheating"!
Side Note: I loved listening to everyone's accents here! X
About whether sharing your body/nudity is cheating: my partner and I have differing opinions on this. I view my body as a non-sexual thing, and so I would love the idea of potentially participating in nude art or thing like that. My partner, on the other hand, finds that nudity is something intimate that only we should share between ourselves. I respect his opinion and that defines our handling of the issue, however although this is a topic we settled some years ago, I am still stuck between feeling that it is right to respect his wishes and that I have lost or hidden away a part of my identity/value system/ability to express myself. Compromises are hard, but necessary, I guess.
Please don't take this as me being rude because that's not my intention at all but it sounds to me that you didn't actually compromise with your partner. A compromise should be both parties trying to meat somewhere in the middle that both people are comfortable with but it sounds like your partner said no and you just went along with that? Maybe it's time for another conversation where a better compromise could be made?
For me it's about open communication and boundary setting. It's also a commitment and time of life thing. In my early 20s I might have found myself "just sharing a bed" with someone after a party, but if I did that now, it would be a situation I'd have purposefully got myself into, and absolutely not the same.
Loved this collaborative piece !
I don’t think catching feelings is cheating, unless you act on those feelings. However, if you do catch feelings, the kindest and most respectful thing to do is to break up with whoever you’re dating if you know you have feelings for someone else.
I think that's a but extreme. My husband has caught feelings for other people before and it was nbd. The kind and respectful thing he did was stop hanging out with those people.
Feelings get caught all the time, love is a choice.
@@TheEmmaHouli sorry for not clarifying. My comment was very much so dependent on context. I was leaning more towards the kind of feelings where you know you won’t break it off. Like, they’re strong and you know you’re gonna end up hurting the other person. A little crush here and there is nothing to worry about (especially for a married couple) and, as you said, best thing to do is just stop hanging out. However, if my boyfriend continued to hang around that person, knowing his feelings for them were only getting stronger and would continue to do so, I’d hope that he broke it off with me.
I've told my partner that I'm okay with them watching porn, but watching unethical porn is in my opinion kinda predetory (not if you are unaware that porn can be unethical, ofc) - and I would be very uncomfortable with that. Not cheating, I guess? But I felt it was relevant to the topic of this video