A tap on red line. Drag it all the way to the end of the video. then tap the screen, and drag it all the way back to the beginning. that gets rid of all the commercials. Try it, you might like. take CARE of each other and BE safe. GOD BLESS YOU ALL
@@BenDover-uy9zg Use Firefox as your web browser, then activate it's simple pop up and add blocker. Zero adds on YT at all. There's others, but I know this works.
Other than the statement about vacuum driving back the bolt, this gentleman has done a great job here. He takes a scientific approach. He's taking measurements, gathering data, looking for reasons why the results are what they are, testing possible solutions, & measuring the results. He's sharing what he learned without ego, just his data and his results. Many can learn from him and his approach. He will only get better at what he is doing because of his methods and the efforts he makes. Congrats for an outstanding job, STKO! To help clarify, a vacuum created by the bullet leaving the barrel and sucking air back in, is not what cycles the bolt on an auto loader. The expanding gasses in the chamber drive the bullet forward and the bolt backward. The bolt, requires more energy to overcome its mass than the much lighter bullet does. The bullet is well on its way down the barrel as the expanding gasses from burning powder overcomes the bolt's mass and moves the bolt rearward. How do you know this to be true? One way is to look at your action and wonder "Why do I need to clean it?" If all the gasses propelled the bullet, there would be no carbon deposits inside your rifle or pistol action, only the barrel. Matching ammo to barrel length is also smart. Powder is still burning as your bullet travels down the barrel. Slower burning powders tend to work better in longer barrels as they continue to accelerate the bullet, maintaining a more even pressure wave. There is a point where more barrel length will not help velocity. As the bullet travels down the barrel, it creates move volume inside the barrel. More volume equals less pressure once the powder is consumed. As STKO found in his data, higher velocity doesn't necessarily mean better accuracy, either. Continually learning is journey, not a destination. STKO is on a great path.
As the pressure in the bore decreases the shell casing releases it's friction in the camber and the residual pressure forces the bolt back. I believe from my experience with reloading rifle ammo, seating the bullet to just touch the rifling gives the best possible accuracy. The bullet is then perfectly centered and can not be misaligned as it leaves the case. Given that the rifling on a 22 rifle should almost engage the front of the bullet. Stingers , smaller bullets, and 22 shorts can be misaligned causing the bullet to be out of balance as it leaves the barrel. Spinning bullets must be perfectly balanced or accuracy will be affected. The crimp on 22's may affect the bullet alignment with the rifling? Slugging 22 barrels might give more information about a particular barrels accuracy. Just my thoughts on it.
@@wesleyswisher9624 Care to address the vacuum operating the blowback action. I understand your explanation about accuracy. But it doesn't address the issue we're talking about.
@@wesleyswisher9624 Seating the bullet to just touch the rifling usually, but not always, provides the best accuracy. Typically that's great for bolt guns. Some loads like a very small jump, so testing and gathering data is smart. Some calibers must have a jump. To seat the bullet at the rifling on certain weapons, seating the bullet out further, which lengthens OAL, may exceed the magazine's spec and you'll have feeding problems. Not bad thoughts, though.
My Dad was a big .22cal fan. Over the years he acquired many rifles and handguns in that caliber. And although I "cut my teeth" on 22 caliber in the early 1960's in the high plains surrounding Albuquerque NM starting at 11 years old, over the years I have moved on to higher calibers in handguns and rifles but I still have an affinity for 22 caliber. Sadly he passed away in 2003 but I inherited his gun collection and kept it intact. You wouldn't believe how many of my shooting buddies I have converted to 22 cal over the years just by occasionally bring one of them old 22 rifles to the range for a day of shooting and target practice, and they are drawn to it likes bees to honey lol. 22 cal is the epitome of simplicity in not only cost but in accuracy within a reasonable range with iron sights. Is it what I would recommend for self defense? Not on a bet. But is it fun to shoot for virtually any age person? Yes absolutely. And yes, after all those 55+ years, that little single shot bolt action Stevens 22lr that I learned on was included in that inheritance, and it now commands a special place in my safe, and is still in pristine condition.
I have a Savage model 3D that my father gave to me. It was his rifle and he got it when he was 12 so it would be about 76 years old now. It's very similar or pretty much identical to the Stevens model of the era. One of my absolute favorite heirlooms.
If you call that a one hole you should see some of my targets not even close brother give me some where to send them and I will send you some of my targets. Beagleman
my friend bought a Chinese cheap as craeko 22lr we used hornady that used Hercules blue dot propellant It was discontinued shortly thereafter thereafter It was no longer available due to clearance stock sales We had phenomenal results for this this combination However it all comes down to the individual skill set as his grouping was three and a half inches at ring 8 with dia. paper target and he was in the nz army territorial,, 80metres range windy low to fair crosswind 1.2km intermittent My grouping was 575ml can same distance (peppsi) and direct hit center just under the top of the can crimping as I said before you have to know about this sort of stuff As my father and I practiced it and we used to do the MathType scenario for extrapolating to achieve such mind blowing results Like most who were in service he could come across as a hard man and a bit of a tough total ego maniac but he was a world champion dad and am eternally grateful for all that he did and then .now 😊
I worked for Winchester Western Australia as a toolmaker, I can assure you they manufactured the world's most accurate 22 cal rimfire ammunition. So much so that it was specified by Olympic shooting teams. The projectile dies had an accuracy of 0.00005", that's five hundred thousandths of an inch. Cheers
I also made in the early 1990s very good experience with Winchester Xpert rounds. They we're very suitable fir the olympic Match Shooting on 50 m distance ( lying Position} By far Not that pricy as our German Made RWS R50
I had to re-visit this video to say what I have on my mind after following some of your advice! I have been working, on and off with a CZ 452 American in .22 lr, topped with a vintage Leupold M8 4x scope that was used on my old tried and true small game getter, Marlin 39-A that I used heavily in my youth. Back then, I worked on farms and ranches to earn money for my guns and ammo and was paid by those same farmers and ranchers to shoot ground squirrels and rock chucks, of which, I killed many! About the time that I was convinced that I would have to glass bed my 452, I came across this particular video! Thinking that perhaps, I could learn a thing or two from a "youngster" as I may have forgotten something that I once knew, or may not have known at all, I watched your video... I listened and watched and have to admit that I was impressed with what you have taught yourself as I once did in my own youth! I owe you a debt of gratitude in what you have done here to benefit me in my own pursuit of accuracy with my 452! I have known about Aguila .22 lr ammunition for some time, but was never motivated to try it. Until I watched your video, I had forgotten just how important it is to pay attention to action screw tension! To make a long story short, I picked up some Aguila Extra Velocity 40 grain and tightened down my action screws until they were much more tight than I had ever previously tightened them, they are now "very tight" but not so that it is severe... With that, I took this rifle and Aguila ammo mentioned out and set up a target at 55 yards. Shooting off sand bags on a very calm and cold day, I shot group after group with shots going into either the same hole or shots producing one raged hole that measured in 16ths of an inch, NO FLYERS! I would post a pic if I could, but suffice to say that the 4 groups that I shot can all be covered using the end of a pencil eraser!!! Thank you for taking the time to share what you've learned! This "Old Dog" has learned a new trick from you and he appreciates it more than he can express my friend! My daughter-in-law has a Ruger 10-22 that we will be working with as you suggest to improve it's accuracy and I expect great results! Keep up the good work and God Bless!
No problem! Glad you have witnessed the experience that I did when shooting Aguila and shared it. Appreciate you going and trying out my advice, Thanks!
As the pressure in the bore decreases the shell casing releases it's friction in the camber and the residual pressure forces the bolt back. I believe from my experience with reloading rifle ammo, seating the bullet to just touch the rifling gives the best possible accuracy. The bullet is then perfectly centered and can not be misaligned as it leaves the case. Given that the rifling on a 22 rifle should almost engage the front of the bullet. Stingers , smaller bullets, and 22 shorts can be misaligned causing the bullet to be out of balance as it leaves the barrel. Spinning bullets must be perfectly balanced or accuracy will be affected. The crimp on 22's may affect the bullet alignment with the rifling? Slugging 22 barrels might give more information about a particular barrels accuracy. Just my thoughts on it.
This may well be the most thought provoking .22 rifle video that I've seen! Great job! I'm no gun expert, but was a competitive marksman, member of the NRA's 1600 Club, and have owned and competed with high-end rifles from manufacturers like; Remington, Anschutz, and FWB. Eley Tenex (Red) was my preferred match ammo. I no longer compete, but still love to shoot for accuracy as a hobby. I shoot a Ruger 10/22 Target model with a Bell & Carlson Odyssey 3-way adjustable stock w/ Anschutz rail. With Federal Automatch I get 1.1" 10 shot groups @ 100 yards. I'm sure this rifle can do better with more expensive target ammo, but the Automatch ammo is what was readily available. I recently bought a Savage Mark 2 with an adjustable Boyd's stock for my granddaughter, which I just scoped today. Being a bolt action rifle, and considering it's Savage pedigree, I expect it to perform slightly better than my 10/22 Target. I plan on testing its accuracy with Federal Automatch and CCI Standard Velocity - again, ammo that I can still find at a reasonable price. What might you recommend for my Savage Mark 2, and what does your 10/22 Target model prefer?
Excellent analysis of .22 rimfire dynamics. Many years ago while selecting .22 rimfire ammo for small bore silhouette competition we would wait for shipments of our favorite brands of standard velocity ammunition at our local gun store. We would buy a box of each lot number which was stamped on the inside of the box and test them on the range. It was amazing how much difference there could be from one lot number to another and sometimes a lot number that shot poorly out of one rifle would be the best performer in a different gun. Then we would buy all of the boxes of the best shooting lot numbers for each rifle and hope for the best on match day. Jess
I love this, I'm an air gun guy coming from a family of powder burners. This guy is doing great feats with a small caliber , Instead of being seduced by thinking it isn't good if it isn't Big ! lemme tell ya. You can kill things deader than hell with a .22 . Especially if you can really shoot.
Yep,, I have 2 of them both tube fed. 17 down the tube and 1 down the pipe.. has little squirrels stamped into the stock. I wouldnt trade mine for the world and if I could find more, I'd snatch them right up...
@@motobator1895 Yep I have a light and a dark wood stained ones.. The dark stained was my Grandpa's and the one I learned how to shoot on. I ended up with that when he passed away. Very special rifle to me and my brother who has it now because in my 20's I seen the light colored one at my local bait shop for 100 bucks and I jumped on it.. And now teaching my daughter the same way I was taught by my grampa.. She takes after all of us cause she is a hell of a shot. hitting 1 inch bullseyes at 100 yards on reactive targets.. Proud daddy I am..
Thank you very , yours is the most informative video I have ever seen regarding .22 cal. rounds . This will help me decide on the firearm and ammo I purchase in the future .
I agree with the young guy. Even though I like Mini Mags the Aguila 40 grain high velocity rounds are far and away the better rounds if you are looking for consistent high power 22 accuracy. You can pay a lot of money for expensive ammo but you won't find any better. Also, I have some very old .22 rifles that will out shoot many of the safe queens that you can buy today. Even though you think that the old Remingtons and Winchesters in auto loaders and bolt action rifles are inferior to the newer rifles that are manufactured today I have found that it is the complete opposite of what people think. The older the rifle the higher the quality that was used when they were manufactured. I have an old 100+ year old sigle shot Winchester bolt gun that has a 24" barrel and outshoots anything made today. The bore is really high quality, straight and true and shoots straight and true.
I'm a minimalist as I own only 4 fire arms for about 30 years. I am thinking of getting a 10/22 for plinking (as I already own a Rugar Single six as one of my fire arms that I own). I liked the information you are sharing with us and I just subbed to your site. Thank you for all of this information and the work you put into this video.
Having just found you, I am inpressed with your skills etc, but more impressed by your logic in combining all factors in shooting of targets. My self having grown up around guns since the age of about 6 now am 71 (eyesight is diminished but still having fun) showing the young guys a thing or two,I was on the range with my 303 Mk5 Jungle Carbine with just iron sights at 100 yrds (kicks like a mule) and the young fellow next me gave a complement saying with a scope he still could not get a better group than mine, it's just practice and zen. I use the iron sights on my 1906 .22 Remington rolling block & my 1917 .22 Lee Enfield cadet with peep sights and have found different brands are shooting well in one rifle, but not the other.
I smiled reading that btw:) am a little younger :) 57, the 303 you mentioned was my first deer rifle in western Colorado:) was almost a give away gun at one time or at least the longer barreled enfields were, wished I would have kept it now:) Am also impressed by this guys learned knowledge. thanks. Rick
I have an Enfield marked as a 1943 gun. With peep sights and a unique marking I had to research. FTR. Factory Thorough Restoration. Likely started as an Enfield full size but shortened and lightened as a Jungle Carbine. Great guns and extremely loud.
Just a tip from a fan. Re: bullet deformation. Fire one then eject by hand and inspect. Repeat a few times. This should subject the bullet to the full force of the auto cycle.
Well holy shit Jimmy. I usually disagree with you on pellets and airguns, but you're right on with what you had to say here about this powder burner. You made me think about some aspects I've never thought about actually.
Some observations I made over the years. Saw a Model 52C Winchester target rifle that didn't like Eley Tenex but ran like a champ with standard velocity Remington. Saw a single shot .22 bolt action that ran like a champ with CCI MiniMag. Found my old Remington Nylon 66 I haven't fired since I was a kid. Will be interesting to see what it will do with all the new ammo on the market. Gotta find what IT likes.
It's the Seneca green striped stocks made only a couple years and not the green KMart stocks that are the more rare and more valuable to collectors. All nice condition 66's are bringing good money these days.
I totally agree with you that Aguila Supper Extra 40 grain perform the best for my CZ 457 American, but it can barely fit my Ruger Wrangler Revolver. The ammo also causes cycle problems with my 1911 22LR semi auto pistol
I had a brand new 22 stirling quite a few years back..like 40 yrs ago.i started using aguila ammo as it was the cheapest at the time in NZ..turned out the stirling loved this brand and i cld practically key hole shots even with open sights. None of the other brands came close to it..
35 years ago I had a Winchester 490. I ran various cartridges though it and found the PMC Zapper would give me a 5 shot group of about 1" at 100yards off the bench. I live in Alberta now and haven't seen those in 25-30 years. Ammo to gun combination is critical. Every gun has its preferred loads
Just in case you are unaware, back in the 90's Federal spent a lot of money trying to figure out how to make consistently accurate .22 Ammo for the US Shooting team. At the time the team was mostly buying German made Ammo at $850/case when you could get CCI target Ammo at $100/case. Federal found 21 variables in the manufacturing process that affected consistent accuracy. In the long run they designed a cartridge that shot well in 1 particular chamber and many of the rest of the rifle team rebarreled their rifles to match the chamber. Us pistol shooters were not even considered and we continued to use European made Ammo for the most part. The federal ammo worked well in some guns but not others.
Wow no shit same exact holes 🤔 Thats impressive. I can appreciate your logic and how you break down the data. Great vid, I hope you have sponsors by now because you deserve to get paid for this. Keep it up!
I've got a PPK/S .22lr Plain lead fouls the barrel pretty badly after a couple hundred rounds at the range. Various copper coated bullets will fail to eject, etc more or less, depending on the brand. I've found that the Aguila copper plated bullet leaves the smallest amount of "mess" in the gun. YMMV
Once upon a time, about 6-8 years ago, I had my Marlin (JC Penney Foremost) 22LR bolt gun at the range. I was set up at 25 yards. I fired the first shot, ok, then the second, wait same hole, not a tear, same diameter hole. Then the third shot, holy crap, same hole, and now my adrenaline is rising. 4 shot, same damn hole, now i'm hyperventilating, trying to calm down. Here goes, 5th shot, just off a little low to the left. C-C is .24inch. But here's what kills me. I didn't write down anything on the target, not the date, time, temperature, or type of ammunition. Still have the target, but I have not since been able to replicate that day. That Marlin has been a tackdriver since the day I got it back in 1968.
Thanx! I finally understood why the bolt action rifle (owned by one of my friends) has problems (misfires) with those nickel-plated case, copper 32 grain bullet Stinger ammo. Usually, firing these requires 3 to 4 attempts and a little more "push-pulling" before it is finally fired.
Hornady sells a couple different tools that will help with rimfire ammo batching and consistency. Batching your ammo then testing with different firearms you will see significant differences in performance. Generally Winchester T22, CCI standard velocity and lapua standard match and Sellier & Beloit all excellent 22LR ammo.
Sorry but there's a lot of totally incorrect information in this video that simply isn't true. My apology's, but this is going to get a bit long. A semi auto .22 open bolt action is not cycled by air rushing back through the barrel after the bullet leaves the bore. Your not fully understanding the firing cycle at all. An open (non mechanically locked and gas released) action begins to cycle as the powder ignition starts to occur, because of the bolt and return spring weights that are well above what those little 40+ grain bullets weigh, the bullet has fully exited the barrel while the bolt continues that complete cycle. A failure to fully cycle in a semi auto with some types of lower powered ammunition can be solved with smoothing of the internal action parts and/or a lighter spring. It's one of the reasons low powered .22 shorts for example never have enough power to fully cycle a semi auto action. Compare how much the bolt weighs in say a Ruger 10/22 verses the weight of the bolt in a .22 bolt action. That extra weight in the 10/22 as well as the return spring rate is fairly heavy and carefully designed in as a way to slow the action cycle rate a bit, yet still allow it to fully cycle with most average ammunition types and the pressures they generate. That cycle rate is purposely slowed so the firing pressures are then reduced enough to be safe since the bullet has left the barrel, and at that point that pressure quickly drops to that now safe level but there's still enough left to fully complete that bolt cycling. Standard velocity .22 rimfire ammunition will usually have approximately 7,000-8,000 psi generated once it reaches the full ignition point. At the millisecond time level, that powder starts to ignite it immediately starts to build pressure and the bullet starts to move. At that point that pressure builds and forces those thin and easily deformed case walls out against the chamber even before the bullet has fully left the case. The gas generated DOES NOT flow back along the case walls because the cartridge case is designed to partially deform and seal the chamber. That small movement is within what's known as the elastic limit of the case material. The machined chamber prevents the case from deforming too far and move into what's known as the materials yield point where permanent deformation occurs. After the bullet leaves the barrel those pressures obviously drop and the case mouth relaxes so it can be extracted during that bolt cycle time. If your having cycling issues after firing a number of shots it's certainly not due to gases flowing back along the case. That would be from the minor residue that's left in each case after firing starting to foul the action and chamber. Another possible issue could also be a rougher than usual chamber.Yes you are correct that the more concentric the bullet is to the the chamber and just how concentric that chamber is to the rifling is important. The exact diameter of the barrel and rifling size is far less important though for very logical reasons. Lead bullets and even copper jacketed center fire bullets are made from fairly soft metals for good reasons. .22 lead rimfire bullets are about at a 7-8 BHN hardness scale. That softness is also part of there design. Soft enough to still deform easily under the firing pressures, but not soft enough to have damage occur due to normal handling and loading.That firing pressures also help to deform the bullet base and fully seal the barrel as well as help the lead to flow and expand to fill the barrels rifling grooves. An exact velocity range has little to do with finding the correct ammunition that particular gun happens to shoot the best. There's vast differences in how .22 rimfire ammunition is manufactured. It's the amount of quality and care going into the ammunition's components and assembly that dictates just how consistent it will be. That's what your paying for with the better and more consistent target grade ammunition. What most fail to understand is any rifle barrel has little difference between it and a tuning fork or even a guitar string. That barrel starts to vibrate at a microscopic level as soon as the trigger begins to be pulled. Those vibrations start to build and get larger as the triggers sear begins to break and the firing pin then begins to move. Those vibrations move at around roughly 10,000 ft per sec in carbon steels. And those vibrations quickly increase as the firing pin hits the case rim and then vastly increase as ignition occurs until the bullet has fully left the barrel. Visualize it as the barrel moving much like wave in water only at a very small amount and it's undetectable by eye. All this happens in a very few milliseconds of time.High speed cameras can show it happening with large center fire rounds. But that vibration is still there even though we can't properly detect it. A simple .001" change in the barrels muzzel position due to that vibration as the bullet exits the barrel will increase your group size by approximately 1" at 100 yrds with everything else being exactly equal. To try and shorten this I'll simplify it a bit. Gun barrel steel no matter how good or expensive is at the microscopic level quite inconsistent. That's due to it's composition, effects from the variations in heat temperature changes as it's being processed, internal stresses built up and created as the steel is being manufactured and then compression rolled into it's finished shape. There's also additional stresses caused during the machining steps. Those are the main ones and there's many more, but I'm trying to keep this short without much success. All those inconsistency's change the extremely complex harmonics within that barrel steel and how much and exactly where each one will vibrate as it's being used as a gun barrel. Even two seemingly exact barrels taken from the exact same bar of steel will have changes in how they vibrate and what's called there natural harmonic range. So why is any of this important to us? A change in ammunition, powder burning rate, amount of priming compound, powder volume, bullet weight etc changes the harmonics that particular barrel sees during each firing. And since those barrel vibrations are impossible to fully eliminate, changing the ammunition brand or bullet weight, or load development in center fire ammunition is the method we use to find something where the barrel muzzel is in the as close as possible exact same position each and every time the bullet exits the barrel. So the more consistent the ammunition is made to, the better your chances of it shooting well. It's still not a guarantee, because the particular vibration form it creates may not be 100% compatible with it being consistent to what the barrels own harmonic range will do in a real world situation. I don't mean this to seem hyper critical, it's certainly not meant that way. I'm trying to correct at least some of the well meant but still misunderstood information that's out there.
@@thetrain5785 Lol, nope I'm a retired open pit miner. But have been shooting, reloading and machining metal for quite awhile. I also like to learn as much as my limited education allows so I've spent more time researching what I didn't know than a normal or sane person might. If you use some logic and think things through, it's not that tough to put fragments of information together from various sources to where it starts to make sense. I might know a fraction of what I'd like to, but unlike a real ballistics tech I still can't prove any of it the way they can.
Once I’ve learned to adjust the headspace on the .22 long rifle cartridge, my accuracy improved by an order of magnitude, that’s all. Headspace and a 16” barrel. Although barrel length isn’t that important.
I had shot several triple kings in a series of schutzen matches using anshutz 1700. Peep sights at 25 yards,3 rounds in a 1/4" cnter ring. they don't clean the rifles until the matches are over
This was very well done. Well thought out as far as type of chambering. The 22 is a decent line of defense as long as you know your rifles capability. The use of a certain ammo manufacturer can make a world of difference in accuracy. Excellent information for gun enthusiasts too use.
I was six years old when my grandfather, on my mom's side, gave me my first .22 rifle. since I moved to higher calibers. I was a U.S. Marine company sniper and still own my 6.5 PRC, 338 Lapua, several bolt action 223, 5.56, AKs, etc. now, in my Winter, I've gone back to .22s. I have about $50,000 dollars invested in high accuracy .22 and regularly compete. I only use Eley Tenex, Match, SK long dintance, Lapua center X and long distance. ALL subsonic. over 200,000 rounds in my safes. I practice five days a week, 500 to 700 rounds a day. I also have high end .22 competition handguns and I hope one day my grandboys and nieces will appreciate them as I do.
Excellent cache of information. Thank you. BTW: Aguila ammo is made in Mexico. Aguila is Spanish for eagle as depicted on the box and is pronounced *ah'* gee lah, with the accent on the first syllable.
Hotrod Dave here,I have had great success with Aguila super velocity 22s,accuracy,consistancy,1 inch higher at75 yards than CCI min mags.I shoot a Ruger American.
Great shooting. Interesting results. I found sorting the same ammo you use by weight within 0.1 grains provides better velocity and std dev. Data. The groups are outstanding too. The velocity variance is an issue at 100 yards as you get vertical spreading with different velocities. The Anguilla std velocity has significantly high variance in weight. The weight difference is mostly bullet size variance causing weight variance. There is 1 grain of powder in a 22 LR, the case weighs about 9 grains, the rest of the weight is the 40 grain bullet. They weigh around 51 grains typically. The eley 10x has consistent weights, so does Lapua Midas plus.
I allways liked the 22lr. I own 2. 1 is a ruger all American bolt action rifel that takes the 10/22 magazine and the other is a ruger wrangler single action revolver. Its what i grab to put in my truck when im fishing at night. But if im camping im taken my 6 inch 357 mag lol
It is true the CCI Stinger has a longer case but it also has a shorter bullet so it fits a standard length chamber. Match chambers generally have a smaller diameter
I have several R. 10/22 rifles and carbines. This is the first time I've ever heard that you can't (shouldn't) shoot Stingers in them. I've been using 10/22's for over 20 years. I have shot almost exclusively Stinger rounds through them.
I can understand where tight, target chambers are involved, since the case on a Stinger is substantially longer. But I shoot Stingers almost exclusively and without issue through my little Beretta 21A, which I've had for 30 years... since I want all the bang I get get coming out of that 1-1/2" barrel : )
I also own a 10-22 for almost 15 - 20 years and after trying different types of ammunition my 10-22 really prefer the CCI Mini Mags in 40 grain bullets. With 0pen sights straight out of the box,it is good for 75 yards and a 3 inch pattern. I still like the 40 grain CCI mini mags
Impressif groups . I have a Ruger 10/22-T SS about 3/4" at 50yds. is my average . I just bought the Savage MK II FV SD I'm putting a Nightforce NXS 5.5 to 22 X 50 that I have on it and see what it can do (or what I can do) . You have a blessed one.
I'm 14, and I got my MARK II GXP Savage 22LR. I used some Blazer ammo and hit a 4-inch target at 300 yards. I was crouching on the floor and used a Field Pod Max to hold my rifle. I had maxed out my scope turrets in elevation, so I had to do some Kentucky windage and aim a bit high over the target. It took me about 10 tries, but then I heard a ding, and it fell over. My scope has no mil dots or hash marks, just a plain old X reticle.
I have learned at 50yards almost any ammo shoots good groups but you can't tell what ammo your 22lr really likes is when you shoot 100yards. I shoot benchrest competition myself and have shot thousands of rounds testing ammo and found s&k biathlon shot the same out of my 18" as well as my 24" cz457. You have some good subjects but I find some of it you speak about was off
I own a Mossberg 151K semi-automatic 22LR. It’s barrel is just under 24” long. It never jams regardless of any manufacturer load. What load would give the best performance in a barrel that long?
Funny thing is my glass bedded ancient H&R .22 shoots best with the cheapest bullets I can find. I tried all the available ammo including some expensive match grade ammo and the cheapest cheap bought by the brick ammo was the one that gave me one-hole groups. It's still my best grouse gun.
@@boomerisadog3899 do you have the red dot that came with it? I have a 15-22, and it won’t hold zero and it’s pretty inaccurate. I’m going to put a vortex crossfire on it and hope it improves.
That is correct. The expanding gasses that propel the bullet forward, drive the bolt backward. Higher velocity rounds should provide more pressure to drive the bolt back. Subsonic rounds may be problematic for some. Overall though, he's done a good job and is smart in his approach. He's data driven and looks for reasons and solutions. I can't fault his methods or results.
Thank you. I didnt want to be "that guy".... so u saved us. Bc I didnt want to start a "discussion" as it usually turns into or is perceived as "argument".
@@bluesbrother6305 I had an ex who operated on the same principal, she felt her "suck back" method was the best for "cycling" male attention and approval, as she had very low self esteem no doubt and perhaps that helped her be more "on target" in her mind..
Have you tried sliding a cigarette paper down the barrel between the barrel and the stock? The paper should slide to the stalk hold down bolt. The barrel makes a circular motion as the slugs spirals down the barrel. If the barrel does not touch the stalk, the barrel should come back to center every time. If it touches the stalk anywhere, it will stop there leaving a barrel that is not at center. Sometime you may see three places where the barrel comes to rest. This will produce random hits right, left, up or down. Just a thought.
@@Fister_of_Muppets 1 hole @ 50yds is not impressive for a 17hmr. If you said 1 hole @ 150yds, THAT would be impressive. A 22lr that can 1 hole @ 50yds is impressive.
Every serious small bore ( 22LR ) match shooter knows (1) Standard velocity ( below the speed of sound ) ammo is more accurate and consistent than high velocity. Unlike center fire , faster is not better. (2) The optimal barrel length for 22 LR is 66 cm ( 26 inches ) .
Thanks for sharing your test data and expierence. I have a CZ 453 22 inch and tested several 40 gr LRN ammo at 50 yds: CCI Std 1,070, SK Std 1,073, Fed Automatch 1,200, Rem Target Std 1,150, Fed Champion 1,240, Rem Thunderbolt 1,255. I found as you did that the ammo at 1,100 fps shot the smallest groups at 50 yds, but the point of impact was 1.5 inches lower than the ammo at or above 1,200 fps. I will be testing to 100 yards next. What ammo do you think will be better at 100 yds? Thanks in advance.
a tool and die maker might suggest zero crimp = zero stiffener to resist the expansion of the casing to fit the chamber allowing a better more consistent fit.
Nickolas, Are you saying the gases can travel Faster than the bullet, or the bullet can travel fast than the gases ? Some believe the gases push the bullet the length of the barrel ! ...
There are actually 2 SAMI specifications for 22lr cartridges and chamber reamers. One is for the standard 22lr and another for the target 22lr, which has a slightly smaller diameter and other dimensions. A firearm manufactured to the target dimensions may, probably won't, accept a standard cartridge fully into the chamber. By the way, there are at least half a dozen different chamber reamer dimensions from different manufacturers.
First rifle I bought in life as a teenager, was a Winchester M-69 22lr because I read a story in Guns & Ammo on squirrel hunting. ITS A TACK DRIVER !! 100 yards I can group 5 rounds into what looks like one hole in the paper though traced as 3 rounds.....but all 5 are in that hole......and most likely i pulled it. It doesn't have an adjustable trigger like a Winchester 52. BUT as far as ammo.....it likes Winchester XX......anything else opens up but is still tight. I run a 3x9 center fire full size scope on it......though I want to go to a 4x12 in the future. I don't shoot much presently and have to get back into it. I rarely shot under 50 yards but enjoyed 100 yards though its a longer walk. In plain terms, I'd say it puts them all into a dime at 100 yards......when talking with people that don't shoot. Its funny trying to work around your beating heart.....and a non adjustable trigger.....staying steady and not pulling a round left or right.....once you get the windage of the day down. I like my M-69 so much.....I bought a second one at a gun show a few years back........great rifles from the ERA of Winchester . I just wish they had an adjustable trigger hahaha.......
i was going to bed the action of one of the rifles....and massage the wood stock to free float the barrel.....but the way it sits in the stock......it needs a second lug to secure the action which I had thought about as adding on and welding a nut to the rear of the full action.......BUT haven't. They have become antique collectible in status now.......and there is not much that can be done.....other than totally custom made stuff and custom work.
If you want true tuned harmonics get a ab suppressor and as long of a reflex on the back of the suppressor you can fit. I have an AR 15 224 valkerie has shooting1000 yards ver well put a 556 ab suppressor and got 4 inch reverbarator. Shot just suppressor and tighten up later by almost 1 inch added designator and shooting a .603 on 10 test patterns with cool down in between each patter. All because of harmonics.
I noticed that Remington subsonic 22lr has blowback carbon on the casing after shooting unlike cci subsonic. I shoot both in my H&R sportster. / Thanks for sharing,
Hi...I'm from UK a new shooter. I've learned so much. Thank you so much. At my club Ruger 10/22 has an awful reputation for accuracy. Im gonna use your tips and buy a 10/22.... plus a CZ 22lr plus a 17hmr. many thanks mate
Marlins have a problem with the feed ramp. Where it goes into the barrel there is a sharp edge and you can polish it with a piece of 3/16 nylon rope run through the barrel and down through the mag feed ramp with the stock removed. Almost every 22 benefits from having a polished feed ramp and it's so easy. 3/16 nylon rope and one gallon jug of water feed the Rope through and the sliding action over the edges will polish it to mirror and it will never scrape the bullet again
![30 ชั่วโมงคนเดียว บนรถไฟชั้น 3 โซเวียต [Around The World Ep. 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MlE9boAVqDA/mqdefault.jpg)
If you want an even more depth video on 22LR check out this video... th-cam.com/video/fNCyOCaWo00/w-d-xo.html
Dammit STKO,,Im having a tough time seeing your video, ads are eating you alive! Haha,,,people have no idea what it takes to achieve one hole!
A tap on red line. Drag it all the way to the end of the video. then tap the screen, and drag it all the way back to the beginning. that gets rid of all the commercials.
Try it, you might like.
take CARE of each other and BE safe.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL
@@BenDover-uy9zg Use Firefox as your web browser, then activate it's simple pop up and add blocker. Zero adds on YT at all. There's others, but I know this works.
THE BOSS cold sea
@@BenDover-uy9zg pp
Other than the statement about vacuum driving back the bolt, this gentleman has done a great job here. He takes a scientific approach. He's taking measurements, gathering data, looking for reasons why the results are what they are, testing possible solutions, & measuring the results. He's sharing what he learned without ego, just his data and his results. Many can learn from him and his approach. He will only get better at what he is doing because of his methods and the efforts he makes. Congrats for an outstanding job, STKO!
To help clarify, a vacuum created by the bullet leaving the barrel and sucking air back in, is not what cycles the bolt on an auto loader. The expanding gasses in the chamber drive the bullet forward and the bolt backward. The bolt, requires more energy to overcome its mass than the much lighter bullet does. The bullet is well on its way down the barrel as the expanding gasses from burning powder overcomes the bolt's mass and moves the bolt rearward. How do you know this to be true? One way is to look at your action and wonder "Why do I need to clean it?" If all the gasses propelled the bullet, there would be no carbon deposits inside your rifle or pistol action, only the barrel.
Matching ammo to barrel length is also smart. Powder is still burning as your bullet travels down the barrel. Slower burning powders tend to work better in longer barrels as they continue to accelerate the bullet, maintaining a more even pressure wave. There is a point where more barrel length will not help velocity. As the bullet travels down the barrel, it creates move volume inside the barrel. More volume equals less pressure once the powder is consumed. As STKO found in his data, higher velocity doesn't necessarily mean better accuracy, either.
Continually learning is journey, not a destination. STKO is on a great path.
That was the one thing that struck me as well. Vacuum doesn't operate the blowback action. Other than that, it was informative.
As the pressure in the bore decreases the shell casing releases it's friction in the camber and the residual pressure forces the bolt back. I believe from my experience with reloading rifle ammo, seating the bullet to just touch the rifling gives the best possible accuracy. The bullet is then perfectly centered and can not be misaligned as it leaves the case. Given that the rifling on a 22 rifle should almost engage the front of the bullet. Stingers , smaller bullets, and 22 shorts can be misaligned causing the bullet to be out of balance as it leaves the barrel. Spinning bullets must be perfectly balanced or accuracy will be affected. The crimp on 22's may affect the bullet alignment with the rifling? Slugging 22 barrels might give more information about a particular barrels accuracy. Just my thoughts on it.
@@wesleyswisher9624 Care to address the vacuum operating the blowback action. I understand your explanation about accuracy. But it doesn't address the issue we're talking about.
@@wesleyswisher9624 Seating the bullet to just touch the rifling usually, but not always, provides the best accuracy. Typically that's great for bolt guns. Some loads like a very small jump, so testing and gathering data is smart. Some calibers must have a jump. To seat the bullet at the rifling on certain weapons, seating the bullet out further, which lengthens OAL, may exceed the magazine's spec and you'll have feeding problems. Not bad thoughts, though.
@@stephenclemence5856 I think he did with the first sentence. Took me moment to catch it.
My Dad was a big .22cal fan. Over the years he acquired many rifles and handguns in that caliber. And although I "cut my teeth" on 22 caliber in the early 1960's in the high plains surrounding Albuquerque NM starting at 11 years old, over the years I have moved on to higher calibers in handguns and rifles but I still have an affinity for 22 caliber. Sadly he passed away in 2003 but I inherited his gun collection and kept it intact. You wouldn't believe how many of my shooting buddies I have converted to 22 cal over the years just by occasionally bring one of them old 22 rifles to the range for a day of shooting and target practice, and they are drawn to it likes bees to honey lol. 22 cal is the epitome of simplicity in not only cost but in accuracy within a reasonable range with iron sights. Is it what I would recommend for self defense? Not on a bet. But is it fun to shoot for virtually any age person? Yes absolutely. And yes, after all those 55+ years, that little single shot bolt action Stevens 22lr that I learned on was included in that inheritance, and it now commands a special place in my safe, and is still in pristine condition.
I have a Stevens single too ! First gun.
I have a Savage model 3D that my father gave to me. It was his rifle and he got it when he was 12 so it would be about 76 years old now. It's very similar or pretty much identical to the Stevens model of the era. One of my absolute favorite heirlooms.
If you call that a one hole you should see some of my targets not even close brother give me some where to send them and I will send you some of my targets.
Beagleman
my friend bought a Chinese cheap as craeko 22lr we used hornady that used Hercules blue dot propellant
It was discontinued shortly thereafter thereafter
It was no longer available due to clearance stock sales
We had phenomenal results for this this combination
However it all comes down to the individual skill set as his grouping was three and a half inches at ring 8 with dia. paper target and he was in the nz army territorial,,
80metres range windy low to fair crosswind 1.2km intermittent
My grouping was 575ml can same distance (peppsi) and direct hit center just under the top of the can crimping
as I said before you have to know about this sort of stuff
As my father and I practiced it and we used to do the MathType scenario for extrapolating to achieve such mind blowing results
Like most who were in service he could come across as a hard man and a bit of a tough total ego maniac but he was a world champion dad and am eternally grateful for all that he did and then .now 😊
I have a Cooey model 82 that I got from my father when I was 10. I'll never let that one go! It will go to my son when I die.
I worked for Winchester Western Australia as a toolmaker, I can assure you they manufactured the world's most accurate 22 cal rimfire ammunition. So much so that it was specified by Olympic shooting teams. The projectile dies had an accuracy of 0.00005", that's five hundred thousandths of an inch. Cheers
How long ago was that?
Eley and Lapua have set all the accuracy records for the last 30 plus years.
@@tonyharper8056 I worked there in the late 60s early and early 70s. Cheers
That is over 50 years ago. Winchester is garbage now.
I also made in the early 1990s very good experience with Winchester Xpert rounds. They we're very suitable fir the olympic Match Shooting on 50 m distance ( lying Position} By far Not that pricy as our German Made RWS R50
Eley Red box is most used in high level matches.
Thank you for your time, work & effort. Good info!
Thanks for sharing what you have found. Clear thinker, good voice, and friendly attitude.
I had to re-visit this video to say what I have on my mind after following some of your advice!
I have been working, on and off with a CZ 452 American in .22 lr, topped with a vintage Leupold M8 4x scope that was used on my old tried and true small game getter, Marlin 39-A that I used heavily in my youth. Back then, I worked on farms and ranches to earn money for my guns and ammo and was paid by those same farmers and ranchers to shoot ground squirrels and rock chucks, of which, I killed many!
About the time that I was convinced that I would have to glass bed my 452, I came across this particular video! Thinking that perhaps, I could learn a thing or two from a "youngster" as I may have forgotten something that I once knew, or may not have known at all, I watched your video... I listened and watched and have to admit that I was impressed with what you have taught yourself as I once did in my own youth! I owe you a debt of gratitude in what you have done here to benefit me in my own pursuit of accuracy with my 452!
I have known about Aguila .22 lr ammunition for some time, but was never motivated to try it. Until I watched your video, I had forgotten just how important it is to pay attention to action screw tension! To make a long story short, I picked up some Aguila Extra Velocity 40 grain and tightened down my action screws until they were much more tight than I had ever previously tightened them, they are now "very tight" but not so that it is severe... With that, I took this rifle and Aguila ammo mentioned out and set up a target at 55 yards. Shooting off sand bags on a very calm and cold day, I shot group after group with shots going into either the same hole or shots producing one raged hole that measured in 16ths of an inch, NO FLYERS! I would post a pic if I could, but suffice to say that the 4 groups that I shot can all be covered using the end of a pencil eraser!!!
Thank you for taking the time to share what you've learned! This "Old Dog" has learned a new trick from you and he appreciates it more than he can express my friend! My daughter-in-law has a Ruger 10-22 that we will be working with as you suggest to improve it's accuracy and I expect great results! Keep up the good work and God Bless!
No problem! Glad you have witnessed the experience that I did when shooting Aguila and shared it. Appreciate you going and trying out my advice, Thanks!
As the pressure in the bore decreases the shell casing releases it's friction in the camber and the residual pressure forces the bolt back. I believe from my experience with reloading rifle ammo, seating the bullet to just touch the rifling gives the best possible accuracy. The bullet is then perfectly centered and can not be misaligned as it leaves the case. Given that the rifling on a 22 rifle should almost engage the front of the bullet. Stingers , smaller bullets, and 22 shorts can be misaligned causing the bullet to be out of balance as it leaves the barrel. Spinning bullets must be perfectly balanced or accuracy will be affected. The crimp on 22's may affect the bullet alignment with the rifling? Slugging 22 barrels might give more information about a particular barrels accuracy. Just my thoughts on it.
This may well be the most thought provoking .22 rifle video that I've seen! Great job!
I'm no gun expert, but was a competitive marksman, member of the NRA's 1600 Club, and have owned and competed with high-end rifles from manufacturers like; Remington, Anschutz, and FWB. Eley Tenex (Red) was my preferred match ammo.
I no longer compete, but still love to shoot for accuracy as a hobby. I shoot a Ruger 10/22 Target model with a Bell & Carlson Odyssey 3-way adjustable stock w/ Anschutz rail. With Federal Automatch I get 1.1" 10 shot groups @ 100 yards. I'm sure this rifle can do better with more expensive target ammo, but the Automatch ammo is what was readily available.
I recently bought a Savage Mark 2 with an adjustable Boyd's stock for my granddaughter, which I just scoped today. Being a bolt action rifle, and considering it's Savage pedigree, I expect it to perform slightly better than my 10/22 Target. I plan on testing its accuracy with Federal Automatch and CCI Standard Velocity - again, ammo that I can still find at a reasonable price.
What might you recommend for my Savage Mark 2, and what does your 10/22 Target model prefer?
Thanks!
Excellent analysis of .22 rimfire dynamics. Many years ago while selecting .22 rimfire ammo for small bore silhouette competition we would wait for shipments of our favorite brands of standard velocity ammunition at our local gun store. We would buy a box of each lot number which was stamped on the inside of the box and test them on the range. It was amazing how much difference there could be from one lot number to another and sometimes a lot number that shot poorly out of one rifle would be the best performer in a different gun. Then we would buy all of the boxes of the best shooting lot numbers for each rifle and hope for the best on match day. Jess
I love this, I'm an air gun guy coming from a family of powder burners. This guy is doing great feats with a small caliber , Instead of being seduced by thinking it isn't good if it isn't Big ! lemme tell ya. You can kill things deader than hell with a .22 . Especially if you can really shoot.
Thank you!
If you really want to have fun with small rounds shoot the .17 HMR
@@annotten7413 What kinda FPS do does most 17 HMR run at ?
@@johnaverick7468 ~2500
@@jeffmaloney8701 Thats cranken !
I've always been a big fan of the Marlin Model-60 it's my absolute favorite rifle for squirrel hunting
👍👍👍👍👍
My favorite for pheasent that a shot gun cant reach
Yep,, I have 2 of them both tube fed. 17 down the tube and 1 down the pipe.. has little squirrels stamped into the stock. I wouldnt trade mine for the world and if I could find more, I'd snatch them right up...
@@oldmanpatriot1490 yep mine is a glenfield (same thing) with a lighter colored stock with leaves & a squirrel 🐿
@@motobator1895 Yep I have a light and a dark wood stained ones.. The dark stained was my Grandpa's and the one I learned how to shoot on. I ended up with that when he passed away. Very special rifle to me and my brother who has it now because in my 20's I seen the light colored one at my local bait shop for 100 bucks and I jumped on it.. And now teaching my daughter the same way I was taught by my grampa.. She takes after all of us cause she is a hell of a shot. hitting 1 inch bullseyes at 100 yards on reactive targets.. Proud daddy I am..
Wow, impressive amount of tips in one place; thanks for posting!
Thank you very , yours is the most informative video I have ever seen regarding .22 cal. rounds . This will help me decide on the firearm and ammo I purchase in the future .
38 years of shooting .22 and let me tell you this man is dead on.
Why so many thumbs down
@@josesamilpa6345 Some people are just bad shots i guess
@ John Smith - could be you have been doing it wrong for 38 years😉
@@mrsmith8436 I'm NEVER wrong. You understand me?
@@4314832 🤣🤣🤣... I feel you
I agree with the young guy. Even though I like Mini Mags the Aguila 40 grain high velocity rounds are far and away the better rounds if you are looking for consistent high power 22 accuracy. You can pay a lot of money for expensive ammo but you won't find any better. Also, I have some very old .22 rifles that will out shoot many of the safe queens that you can buy today. Even though you think that the old Remingtons and Winchesters in auto loaders and bolt action rifles are inferior to the newer rifles that are manufactured today I have found that it is the complete opposite of what people think. The older the rifle the higher the quality that was used when they were manufactured. I have an old 100+ year old sigle shot Winchester bolt gun that has a 24" barrel and outshoots anything made today. The bore is really high quality, straight and true and shoots straight and true.
I'm a minimalist as I own only 4 fire arms for about 30 years. I am thinking of getting a 10/22 for plinking (as I already own a Rugar Single six as one of my fire arms that I own). I liked the information you are sharing with us and I just subbed to your site. Thank you for all of this information and the work you put into this video.
I had a marlin 60 with feed issues. Turned out there is a nylon buffer that was breaking apart. Replaced it and worked well. Thanks for your sharing.
Plastic and guns… please no
Thank you for all this. I have fired many shots but for me, it's all in the trigger pull, and the hammer fall.
I listened to your whole video, in mind im not a match shooter, thinking I already knew shit, I know enough to put your info into good use. Thanks
thanks!
These videos are great. He is my hero in that he lives our sport/hobby. Great work! 👍
Extremely educational video! No nonsense, all really good actionable information. Thanks!
Best gun /ammo video in the tube
I have a 80 yr old Remington score master in .22 that is a one hole rifle, she is a tack driver.. Way better than anything else up to date I own..
I have the 1934 rem bolt action tube feed. You can't miss
Having just found you, I am inpressed with your skills etc, but more impressed by your logic in combining all factors in shooting of targets.
My self having grown up around guns since the age of about 6 now am 71 (eyesight is diminished but still having fun) showing the young guys a thing or two,I was on the range with my 303 Mk5 Jungle Carbine with just iron sights at 100 yrds (kicks like a mule) and the young fellow next me gave a complement saying with a scope he still could not get a better group than mine, it's just practice and zen. I use the iron sights on my 1906 .22 Remington rolling block & my 1917 .22 Lee Enfield cadet with peep sights and have found different brands are shooting well in one rifle, but not the other.
thank you!
I smiled reading that btw:) am a little younger :) 57, the 303 you mentioned was my first deer rifle in western Colorado:) was almost a give away gun at one time or at least the longer barreled enfields were, wished I would have kept it now:) Am also impressed by this guys learned knowledge. thanks. Rick
I have an Enfield marked as a 1943 gun. With peep sights and a unique marking I had to research. FTR. Factory Thorough Restoration. Likely started as an Enfield full size but shortened and lightened as a Jungle Carbine. Great guns and extremely loud.
To the point. No bs. No pointless gabbing. Love it
Thanks!
Great Data man... Thanks for taking the time to do all of that and explain it. Helps a lot.
Man! A lot to know!
Thank You!
Playing with 22LR playing with DIY 60 grain subsonics.
A wealth of information, Thank u for your time and sharing this!
Just a tip from a fan. Re: bullet deformation. Fire one then eject by hand and inspect. Repeat a few times. This should subject the bullet to the full force of the auto cycle.
Well holy shit Jimmy. I usually disagree with you on pellets and airguns, but you're right on with what you had to say here about this powder burner. You made me think about some aspects I've never thought about actually.
Thank you for your 22lr service. I just got a Ruger 10/22. You have good info. I honestly did not know about the manufacture tolerances.
Very informative and enlightening sir! Your passion is evident and admirable
First time watcher of .22 stuff as Im an airgunner mostly. Liked your presentation of facts. Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching! I have ALOT of airgun stuff also
Some observations I made over the years.
Saw a Model 52C Winchester target rifle that didn't like Eley Tenex but ran like a champ with standard velocity Remington.
Saw a single shot .22 bolt action that ran like a champ with CCI MiniMag.
Found my old Remington Nylon 66 I haven't fired since I was a kid. Will be interesting to see what it will do with all the new ammo on the market. Gotta find what IT likes.
Don't sell that gun! Green nylons are going for 600 bucks.
It's the Seneca green striped stocks made only a couple years and not the green KMart stocks that are the more rare and more valuable to collectors. All nice condition 66's are bringing good money these days.
I totally agree with you that Aguila Supper Extra 40 grain perform the best for my CZ 457 American, but it can barely fit my Ruger Wrangler Revolver. The ammo also causes cycle problems with my 1911 22LR semi auto pistol
I had a brand new 22 stirling quite a few years back..like 40 yrs ago.i started using aguila ammo as it was the cheapest at the time in NZ..turned out the stirling loved this brand and i cld practically key hole shots even with open sights. None of the other brands came close to it..
35 years ago I had a Winchester 490. I ran various cartridges though it and found the PMC Zapper would give me a 5 shot group of about 1" at 100yards off the bench. I live in Alberta now and haven't seen those in 25-30 years. Ammo to gun combination is critical. Every gun has its preferred loads
ive found that Winchester bullets suit my CZ rifle the best
@@brianwheway1933 recently the super X white box has been giving me a pile of duds. Won't fire. I must have bought a bad brick. Had 3 in one box of 50
Just in case you are unaware, back in the 90's Federal spent a lot of money trying to figure out how to make consistently accurate .22 Ammo for the US Shooting team. At the time the team was mostly buying German made Ammo at $850/case when you could get CCI target Ammo at $100/case. Federal found 21 variables in the manufacturing process that affected consistent accuracy. In the long run they designed a cartridge that shot well in 1 particular chamber and many of the rest of the rifle team rebarreled their rifles to match the chamber. Us pistol shooters were not even considered and we continued to use European made Ammo for the most part. The federal ammo worked well in some guns but not others.
Wow no shit same exact holes 🤔 Thats impressive. I can appreciate your logic and how you break down the data. Great vid, I hope you have sponsors by now because you deserve to get paid for this. Keep it up!
I've got a PPK/S .22lr Plain lead fouls the barrel pretty badly after a couple hundred rounds at the range. Various copper coated bullets will fail to eject, etc more or less, depending on the brand. I've found that the Aguila copper plated bullet leaves the smallest amount of "mess" in the gun. YMMV
Love the dedication and passion. You are going to do great things , I can tell.
Ik he is like a underrated genius
@@luapc2221 Terrific research.. Love it.
Once upon a time, about 6-8 years ago, I had my Marlin (JC Penney Foremost) 22LR bolt gun at the range. I was set up at 25 yards. I fired the first shot, ok, then the second, wait same hole, not a tear, same diameter hole. Then the third shot, holy crap, same hole, and now my adrenaline is rising. 4 shot, same damn hole, now i'm hyperventilating, trying to calm down. Here goes, 5th shot, just off a little low to the left. C-C is .24inch. But here's what kills me. I didn't write down anything on the target, not the date, time, temperature, or type of ammunition. Still have the target, but I have not since been able to replicate that day. That Marlin has been a tackdriver since the day I got it back in 1968.
I'm glad you mentioned Aguila ammo. I have had my best results from my Marlin XT 22 and Ruger 10/22 from Aguial Super Extra 40 grain solid lead.
Thanks!
Thanx! I finally understood why the bolt action rifle (owned by one of my friends) has problems (misfires) with those nickel-plated case, copper 32 grain bullet Stinger ammo. Usually, firing these requires 3 to 4 attempts and a little more "push-pulling" before it is finally fired.
Hornady sells a couple different tools that will help with rimfire ammo batching and consistency. Batching your ammo then testing with different firearms you will see significant differences in performance. Generally Winchester T22, CCI standard velocity and lapua standard match and Sellier & Beloit all excellent 22LR ammo.
Sorry but there's a lot of totally incorrect information in this video that simply isn't true. My apology's, but this is going to get a bit long. A semi auto .22 open bolt action is not cycled by air rushing back through the barrel after the bullet leaves the bore. Your not fully understanding the firing cycle at all. An open (non mechanically locked and gas released) action begins to cycle as the powder ignition starts to occur, because of the bolt and return spring weights that are well above what those little 40+ grain bullets weigh, the bullet has fully exited the barrel while the bolt continues that complete cycle. A failure to fully cycle in a semi auto with some types of lower powered ammunition can be solved with smoothing of the internal action parts and/or a lighter spring. It's one of the reasons low powered .22 shorts for example never have enough power to fully cycle a semi auto action. Compare how much the bolt weighs in say a Ruger 10/22 verses the weight of the bolt in a .22 bolt action. That extra weight in the 10/22 as well as the return spring rate is fairly heavy and carefully designed in as a way to slow the action cycle rate a bit, yet still allow it to fully cycle with most average ammunition types and the pressures they generate. That cycle rate is purposely slowed so the firing pressures are then reduced enough to be safe since the bullet has left the barrel, and at that point that pressure quickly drops to that now safe level but there's still enough left to fully complete that bolt cycling.
Standard velocity .22 rimfire ammunition will usually have approximately 7,000-8,000 psi generated once it reaches the full ignition point. At the millisecond time level, that powder starts to ignite it immediately starts to build pressure and the bullet starts to move. At that point that pressure builds and forces those thin and easily deformed case walls out against the chamber even before the bullet has fully left the case. The gas generated DOES NOT flow back along the case walls because the cartridge case is designed to partially deform and seal the chamber. That small movement is within what's known as the elastic limit of the case material. The machined chamber prevents the case from deforming too far and move into what's known as the materials yield point where permanent deformation occurs. After the bullet leaves the barrel those pressures obviously drop and the case mouth relaxes so it can be extracted during that bolt cycle time. If your having cycling issues after firing a number of shots it's certainly not due to gases flowing back along the case. That would be from the minor residue that's left in each case after firing starting to foul the action and chamber. Another possible issue could also be a rougher than usual chamber.Yes you are correct that the more concentric the bullet is to the the chamber and just how concentric that chamber is to the rifling is important. The exact diameter of the barrel and rifling size is far less important though for very logical reasons. Lead bullets and even copper jacketed center fire bullets are made from fairly soft metals for good reasons. .22 lead rimfire bullets are about at a 7-8 BHN hardness scale. That softness is also part of there design. Soft enough to still deform easily under the firing pressures, but not soft enough to have damage occur due to normal handling and loading.That firing pressures also help to deform the bullet base and fully seal the barrel as well as help the lead to flow and expand to fill the barrels rifling grooves.
An exact velocity range has little to do with finding the correct ammunition that particular gun happens to shoot the best. There's vast differences in how .22 rimfire ammunition is manufactured. It's the amount of quality and care going into the ammunition's components and assembly that dictates just how consistent it will be. That's what your paying for with the better and more consistent target grade ammunition. What most fail to understand is any rifle barrel has little difference between it and a tuning fork or even a guitar string. That barrel starts to vibrate at a microscopic level as soon as the trigger begins to be pulled. Those vibrations start to build and get larger as the triggers sear begins to break and the firing pin then begins to move. Those vibrations move at around roughly 10,000 ft per sec in carbon steels. And those vibrations quickly increase as the firing pin hits the case rim and then vastly increase as ignition occurs until the bullet has fully left the barrel. Visualize it as the barrel moving much like wave in water only at a very small amount and it's undetectable by eye. All this happens in a very few milliseconds of time.High speed cameras can show it happening with large center fire rounds. But that vibration is still there even though we can't properly detect it. A simple .001" change in the barrels muzzel position due to that vibration as the bullet exits the barrel will increase your group size by approximately 1" at 100 yrds with everything else being exactly equal.
To try and shorten this I'll simplify it a bit. Gun barrel steel no matter how good or expensive is at the microscopic level quite inconsistent. That's due to it's composition, effects from the variations in heat temperature changes as it's being processed, internal stresses built up and created as the steel is being manufactured and then compression rolled into it's finished shape. There's also additional stresses caused during the machining steps. Those are the main ones and there's many more, but I'm trying to keep this short without much success. All those inconsistency's change the extremely complex harmonics within that barrel steel and how much and exactly where each one will vibrate as it's being used as a gun barrel. Even two seemingly exact barrels taken from the exact same bar of steel will have changes in how they vibrate and what's called there natural harmonic range. So why is any of this important to us? A change in ammunition, powder burning rate, amount of priming compound, powder volume, bullet weight etc changes the harmonics that particular barrel sees during each firing. And since those barrel vibrations are impossible to fully eliminate, changing the ammunition brand or bullet weight, or load development in center fire ammunition is the method we use to find something where the barrel muzzel is in the as close as possible exact same position each and every time the bullet exits the barrel. So the more consistent the ammunition is made to, the better your chances of it shooting well. It's still not a guarantee, because the particular vibration form it creates may not be 100% compatible with it being consistent to what the barrels own harmonic range will do in a real world situation. I don't mean this to seem hyper critical, it's certainly not meant that way. I'm trying to correct at least some of the well meant but still misunderstood information that's out there.
Be honest what do u do for a living ? Work for Barnes x bullet engineering 👍
@@thetrain5785 Lol, nope I'm a retired open pit miner. But have been shooting, reloading and machining metal for quite awhile. I also like to learn as much as my limited education allows so I've spent more time researching what I didn't know than a normal or sane person might. If you use some logic and think things through, it's not that tough to put fragments of information together from various sources to where it starts to make sense. I might know a fraction of what I'd like to, but unlike a real ballistics tech I still can't prove any of it the way they can.
Great information sir thank you i will use this info when signing my rifles
Once I’ve learned to adjust the headspace on the .22 long rifle cartridge, my accuracy improved by an order of magnitude, that’s all. Headspace and a 16” barrel. Although barrel length isn’t that important.
I had shot several triple kings in a series of schutzen matches using anshutz 1700. Peep sights at 25 yards,3 rounds in a 1/4" cnter ring. they don't clean the rifles until the matches are over
Rule of thumb So a shorter barrel use a lower velocity projectile
This was very well done. Well thought out as far as type of chambering. The 22 is a decent line of defense as long as you know your rifles capability. The use of a certain ammo manufacturer can make a world of difference in accuracy. Excellent information for gun enthusiasts too use.
Some question his points. I think every detail he mentions are smart tips.
He worked out the 'First round' mystery pretty well)))
Fantastic information. Thank you
I was six years old when my grandfather, on my mom's side, gave me my first .22 rifle. since I moved to higher calibers. I was a U.S. Marine company sniper and still own my 6.5 PRC, 338 Lapua, several bolt action 223, 5.56, AKs, etc. now, in my Winter, I've gone back to .22s. I have about $50,000 dollars invested in high accuracy .22 and regularly compete. I only use Eley Tenex, Match, SK long dintance, Lapua center X and long distance. ALL subsonic. over 200,000 rounds in my safes. I practice five days a week, 500 to 700 rounds a day. I also have high end .22 competition handguns and I hope one day my grandboys and nieces will appreciate them as I do.
Excellent cache of information. Thank you. BTW: Aguila ammo is made in Mexico. Aguila is Spanish for eagle as depicted on the box and is pronounced *ah'* gee lah, with the accent on the first syllable.
Hotrod Dave here,I have had great success with Aguila super velocity 22s,accuracy,consistancy,1 inch higher at75 yards than CCI min mags.I shoot a Ruger American.
Great shooting. Interesting results. I found sorting the same ammo you use by weight within 0.1 grains provides better velocity and std dev. Data. The groups are outstanding too. The velocity variance is an issue at 100 yards as you get vertical spreading with different velocities. The Anguilla std velocity has significantly high variance in weight. The weight difference is mostly bullet size variance causing weight variance. There is 1 grain of powder in a 22 LR, the case weighs about 9 grains, the rest of the weight is the 40 grain bullet. They weigh around 51 grains typically. The eley 10x has consistent weights, so does Lapua Midas plus.
I love ele ten x at 100yr.& more ? Ware can I get some of It let us know.
Robert Bingham
You're welcome.
redriverreloading.com/outdoor-store?route=product/product&product_id=191556&p=Eley-Tenex-22LR-40gr-FN-EPS-50&r=ammoseek
I allways liked the 22lr. I own 2. 1 is a ruger all American bolt action rifel that takes the 10/22 magazine and the other is a ruger wrangler single action revolver. Its what i grab to put in my truck when im fishing at night. But if im camping im taken my 6 inch 357 mag lol
It is true the CCI Stinger has a longer case but it also has a shorter bullet so it fits a standard length chamber.
Match chambers generally have a smaller diameter
I have several R. 10/22 rifles and carbines.
This is the first time I've ever heard that you can't (shouldn't) shoot Stingers in them.
I've been using 10/22's for over 20 years. I have shot almost exclusively Stinger rounds through them.
I can understand where tight, target chambers are involved, since the case on a Stinger is substantially longer. But I shoot Stingers almost exclusively and without issue through my little Beretta 21A, which I've had for 30 years... since I want all the bang I get get coming out of that 1-1/2" barrel : )
Correct. Stingers are not for match chambers. Regular 22lr rifles it's ok. My match MKII even states that in the manual.
Stingers work fine in my 10/22s, but they are not super accurate
I also own a 10-22 for almost 15 - 20 years and after trying different types of ammunition my 10-22 really prefer the CCI Mini Mags in 40 grain bullets. With 0pen sights straight out of the box,it is good for 75 yards and a 3 inch pattern. I still like the 40 grain CCI mini mags
Impressif groups . I have a Ruger 10/22-T SS about 3/4" at 50yds. is my average . I just bought the Savage MK II FV SD
I'm putting a Nightforce NXS 5.5 to 22 X 50 that I have on it and see what it can do (or what I can do) . You have a blessed one.
I'm 14, and I got my MARK II GXP Savage 22LR. I used some Blazer ammo and hit a 4-inch target at 300 yards. I was crouching on the floor and used a Field Pod Max to hold my rifle. I had maxed out my scope turrets in elevation, so I had to do some Kentucky windage and aim a bit high over the target. It took me about 10 tries, but then I heard a ding, and it fell over. My scope has no mil dots or hash marks, just a plain old X reticle.
I have learned at 50yards almost any ammo shoots good groups but you can't tell what ammo your 22lr really likes is when you shoot 100yards. I shoot benchrest competition myself and have shot thousands of rounds testing ammo and found s&k biathlon shot the same out of my 18" as well as my 24" cz457. You have some good subjects but I find some of it you speak about was off
I own a Mossberg 151K semi-automatic 22LR. It’s barrel is just under 24” long. It never jams regardless of any manufacturer load. What load would give the best performance in a barrel that long?
I hooked up a shop vac to a 1022 and the thing is like a machine gun now. Don't underestimate the vacuum.
You have provided some excellent information that really makes a difference - not just promotion your own personal preference. Thank you
Nice job my friend😄👍!
Thank you 👍
Funny thing is my glass bedded ancient H&R .22 shoots best with the cheapest bullets I can find. I tried all the available ammo including some expensive match grade ammo and the cheapest cheap bought by the brick ammo was the one that gave me one-hole groups. It's still my best grouse gun.
I agree. I tried my Aguila the last time at the range with my m&p compact and was very pleased with the results!
I shoot a lot of Aguila through my 15-22. It runs dirty and has a funny smell but is very accurate.
@@boomerisadog3899 do you have the red dot that came with it? I have a 15-22, and it won’t hold zero and it’s pretty inaccurate. I’m going to put a vortex crossfire on it and hope it improves.
@@LKaramazov Mine came with the Magpul BUIS but it doesn't have a problem holding zero.
i just had my barrel lapped and polished and found a big difference in accuracy and consistency.
What i have found is that CCI 40 grn is the most consistence
Some good info here, but I must state you are incorrect about how blowback actions work. It's pressure not vacuum that cycles the bolt.
Maybe he just meant that it can can be a factor, as the round is leaving the bore ?
That is correct. The expanding gasses that propel the bullet forward, drive the bolt backward. Higher velocity rounds should provide more pressure to drive the bolt back. Subsonic rounds may be problematic for some. Overall though, he's done a good job and is smart in his approach. He's data driven and looks for reasons and solutions. I can't fault his methods or results.
I was wondering if anyone else caught that. That is why it is called blow back. I guess his rifles are suck back.
Thank you. I didnt want to be "that guy".... so u saved us. Bc I didnt want to start a "discussion" as it usually turns into or is perceived as "argument".
@@bluesbrother6305 I had an ex who operated on the same principal, she felt her "suck back" method was the best for "cycling" male attention and approval, as she had very low self esteem no doubt and perhaps that helped her be more "on target" in her mind..
I have to agree with your assessment of the Aguila ammo. Shoots nice groups in my old mossberg. 24" barrel, .75 inch groups at 50yd.
Thank you for this highly informative exposition. WELL DONE, SIR!
😎👍👍👍
Have you tried sliding a cigarette paper down the barrel between the barrel and the stock? The paper should slide to the stalk hold down bolt. The barrel makes a circular motion as the slugs spirals down the barrel. If the barrel does not touch the stalk, the barrel should come back to center every time. If it touches the stalk anywhere, it will stop there leaving a barrel that is not at center. Sometime you may see three places where the barrel comes to rest. This will produce random hits right, left, up or down. Just a thought.
The groups you showed are impressive. How are you grouping with jacketed Aquila at 100 yds?
I have a Savage .17 HMR that will fire every brand of ammo through the same exact hole no matter what. It is nuts.
That's awesome!
Yes at one foot from the Target
@@gfdfperte4248 don't be ignorant...
@@gfdfperte4248 No, try 50 yards.
@@Fister_of_Muppets 1 hole @ 50yds is not impressive for a 17hmr. If you said 1 hole @ 150yds, THAT would be impressive. A 22lr that can 1 hole @ 50yds is impressive.
Every serious small bore ( 22LR ) match shooter knows (1) Standard velocity ( below the speed of sound ) ammo is more accurate and consistent than high velocity. Unlike center fire , faster is not better. (2) The optimal barrel length for 22 LR is 66 cm ( 26 inches ) .
I do things differently with results to prove it thanks!
Thanks for sharing your test data and expierence. I have a CZ 453 22 inch and tested several 40 gr LRN ammo at 50 yds: CCI Std 1,070, SK Std 1,073, Fed Automatch 1,200, Rem Target Std 1,150, Fed Champion 1,240, Rem Thunderbolt 1,255.
I found as you did that the ammo at 1,100 fps shot the smallest groups at 50 yds, but the point of impact was 1.5 inches lower than the ammo at or above 1,200 fps.
I will be testing to 100 yards next. What ammo do you think will be better at 100 yds? Thanks in advance.
Yes, I have found that all to be correct. The most is the chamber for my rifles
Great info. Thanks for the work you put into these videos. I really appreciate everything you do for us.
No prob! Thanks for watching, I posted a cleaning video right after this upload
a tool and die maker might suggest zero crimp = zero stiffener to resist the expansion of the casing to fit the chamber allowing a better more consistent fit.
I shoot with Aguila subsonic for varmints and it's ridiculously consistent. Inexpensive and accurate!
Subsonic are awesome out of rifle very quiet Remington CB’s are deadly on squirrels
What makes any weapon accurate is: When the projectile and gasses travel together the full length of the barrel...
Not quite that simple brother
Nickolas,
Are you saying the gases can travel Faster than the bullet, or the bullet can travel fast than the gases ?
Some believe the gases push the bullet the length of the barrel ! ...
@@fjb4932 that’s exactly what he said in the barrel..
Thanks for all of this data, very helpful for my up coming 22 build.
Just got a 22 Lr for Christmas going squirrel hunting today can't wait
Great video. Very informative. I have a Marlin xt22nd was wondering how difficult it is to bed the barrel. Should I let a gunsmith do it?
i don't know if it has been lifted because of changing TH-cam rules but Eric, IV8888 had a film on how to bed a rifle.
Thanks. That was informative for an old beginner. I thought it was my imagination that brands made a difference. Again thanks to 👍
Finally someone who knows what they're talking about ! That's from a Marine 3rd Award Rifle and Pistol Expert !
There are actually 2 SAMI specifications for 22lr cartridges and chamber reamers. One is for the standard 22lr and another for the target 22lr, which has a slightly smaller diameter and other dimensions. A firearm manufactured to the target dimensions may, probably won't, accept a standard cartridge fully into the chamber. By the way, there are at least half a dozen different chamber reamer dimensions from different manufacturers.
First rifle I bought in life as a teenager, was a Winchester M-69 22lr because I read a story in Guns & Ammo on squirrel hunting. ITS A TACK DRIVER !! 100 yards I can group 5 rounds into what looks like one hole in the paper though traced as 3 rounds.....but all 5 are in that hole......and most likely i pulled it. It doesn't have an adjustable trigger like a Winchester 52. BUT as far as ammo.....it likes Winchester XX......anything else opens up but is still tight. I run a 3x9 center fire full size scope on it......though I want to go to a 4x12 in the future. I don't shoot much presently and have to get back into it. I rarely shot under 50 yards but enjoyed 100 yards though its a longer walk. In plain terms, I'd say it puts them all into a dime at 100 yards......when talking with people that don't shoot. Its funny trying to work around your beating heart.....and a non adjustable trigger.....staying steady and not pulling a round left or right.....once you get the windage of the day down. I like my M-69 so much.....I bought a second one at a gun show a few years back........great rifles from the ERA of Winchester . I just wish they had an adjustable trigger hahaha.......
i was going to bed the action of one of the rifles....and massage the wood stock to free float the barrel.....but the way it sits in the stock......it needs a second lug to secure the action which I had thought about as adding on and welding a nut to the rear of the full action.......BUT haven't. They have become antique collectible in status now.......and there is not much that can be done.....other than totally custom made stuff and custom work.
Used to get some pretty good target spots when I was younger ,, but now that I am getting older, I need some good optics to get close to accuracy
Thank you for all of your research. This video was very informative. Rev
Aguila is also probably prone to better consistency, because without the crimp neck tension would be more even.
Personally, I carry a Ruger SR22 and a Savage Model 64 in the trunk. Both are very accurate out of the box.
If you want true tuned harmonics get a ab suppressor and as long of a reflex on the back of the suppressor you can fit. I have an AR 15 224 valkerie has shooting1000 yards ver well put a 556 ab suppressor and got 4 inch reverbarator. Shot just suppressor and tighten up later by almost 1 inch added designator and shooting a .603 on 10 test patterns with cool down in between each patter. All because of harmonics.
I noticed that Remington subsonic 22lr has blowback carbon on the casing after shooting unlike cci subsonic. I shoot both in my H&R sportster. / Thanks for sharing,
I own a Ruger Mark IV target pistol. Is Aguila or CCI a better ammo to shoot in this pistol?? I also own a Ruger 10/22 18” same question??
Small motorcycle’s and .22’s are both fun.
Hi...I'm from UK a new shooter. I've learned so much. Thank you so much. At my club Ruger 10/22 has an awful reputation for accuracy. Im gonna use your tips and buy a 10/22.... plus a CZ 22lr plus a 17hmr. many thanks mate
Thanks for watching!
Thank you so much for showing us here to its very hard to get the eley amo in this country but I keep trying.
God bless y'all
Marlins have a problem with the feed ramp. Where it goes into the barrel there is a sharp edge and you can polish it with a piece of 3/16 nylon rope run through the barrel and down through the mag feed ramp with the stock removed. Almost every 22 benefits from having a polished feed ramp and it's so easy. 3/16 nylon rope and one gallon jug of water feed the Rope through and the sliding action over the edges will polish it to mirror and it will never scrape the bullet again