While this is a working solution, it has multiple code violations and is potentially not safe. Do not install these in parallel. Wall connector and Nema 14-50 each needs its own dedicated circuit. When using white wire for hot, wrap black electrical tape around ends to indicate it is indeed hot, and not neutral. Nema 14-50 must have neutral wire to meet code, even though EVSE will work without it. Good advice at the beginning of video; to have a licensed electrician do this work.
All of that, plus EV charging circuits must now be on GFCI breakers as of 2020 NEC code. He didn't show the breaker in the video, but I'm guessing it wasn't. Lastly, 8ga and 6ga wiring requires 10ga ground conductors, he only used 12 for the 14-50 receptacle. Edit - if he's using a 60a breaker, this is technically above the 14-50 receptacle rating and is another violation.
@@chrisville25 true, I read that as well after I posted this. I was just going by what my county inspector told me to do last year. Since I "had" to have a GFCI breaker installed no matter what, I ended up putting a 6-50 receptacle in for now. Which is fine, I'm just using the mobile connector and limiting to 25 amps to reduce the line stress and the slower the better for battery longevity anyway. It's plenty for the 120mi/day I travel. Recharges in 6.5hrs. Whenever I switch to a hardwired unit, I'll just remove the GFCI breaker.
@@chevrofreak Yes, it does. Which means you shouldn't need one at the breaker. I think inspectors a bit out of the loop see an "EV" circuit and automatically say it needs GFCI. The code should be more clear on this and state that it's only required for EV circuits using a receptacle, and not hardwired EVSE's. Or if they still want it, specify hardwire EVSE's require "equipment GFCI" (or class C) breakers, which trip at higher leakage current. So if there's an issue upstream of the EVSE, or the EVSE fails there's a little extra protection.
I enjoyed this video. I ran 6 AWG THHN conductors in conduit for my Tesla Gen 3 Wall Connector. My interpretation of the NEC concluded that NM-B (Romex) 6/3 cable ampacity is limited to the 60°C rating which is 55 Amps from Table 310-16. Double check this with your Authority Having Jurisdiction.
What you said is partially true. 6AWG NM-B (Romex) is only rated for 55amps at normal temp/distance. But there is a round up rule with breakers that says if you are not running more than the 55amps in this case, you can round up to the 60 amp breaker for the 6 awg wire. You cannot put 60amps of load on the 6awg with the 60amp breaker but as long as its connected to a single hardwired charger like the tesla charger which only takes 48amps, it is no problem. Only issue is if you ever want a wall charger that pulls more than 55amps. Can't do this with receptacles because you could put something on it that pulls 60amps and overloads the wires but since the charger is capped at 48amps, and that is documented, it is ok.
@@Josh.1234 Hey, I know this is a super old comment… but for others that might see it, this is NOT a correct use of the “round up rule.” I’m a master electrician btw. In this case the load is actually 60A, not 48A, because it’s a continuous load and we must consider the ADJUSTED value when determining wire size.
honestly if you can read specs for products and wiring, its not hard.. i think some people advise against it because there are some serious dumbasses out there who could screw up about anything. so you don't want them to burn their houses down
I believe you have two problems with this installation. The NEMA 14-50 outlet requires both a dedicated breaker and a Neutral conductor (even though the mobile charger does not use it). The dedicated circuit makes sense because two guests who may have charged before could plug in simultaneously and exceed the ampacity of the circuit. So I don't think you meet code at all with your installation of the NEMA 14-50 circuit.
@@jimmywicker1662 Yes, for a NEMA 14-50 it uses #6 with 3 conductors (6-3 NM-B) but the ground inside does not have to be that size. I think #8 is adequate for the ground. All three conductors are hooked up as well as the ground for devices that may use all three conductors. The Tesla wall charger does not use the neutral so it isn't required for that. So two #6 conductors and one smaller ground is fine. If the cable is completely buried inside a wall or overhead, I believe NM-B wire is OK (Non-Metallic Sheathed Cable) but if you use individual wires it should be in conduit. If #6-3 NMB wire is used, don't forget that it needs to have cable clamps on each end and attached to the wall with staples or some sort of hold down for vertical rises. Also, when the wire penetrates studs or other boards inside the wall, it needs to be as far away from the edges (ie centered) as you can make it to prevent sheetrock nails and screws from penetrating and shorting the cable. Always consult a licensed electrician for these types of installation if you don't know the local codes or have familiarity with these as electricity can be dangerous and screw ups can burn your house/garage down. But videos like this can give you things to look out for!
@@alex-650 Agreed! The "50" in NEMA 14-50 implies a 50 Amp breaker and no more than a 40 Amp continuous current draw. If a Tesla wall charger (EVSE) is used on that circuit, it should be provisioned for the 50 Amp breaker (via one's smartphone). If it is hardwired on a 60 Amp breaker it will only draw 48 Amps continuous.
I've gone back and looked and the conductors for ground and neutral for a 14-50 circuit should probably be at least #AWG 8. Ideally the three current conductors would be #6 and only the ground sized at a lower value.
Some talk here about gfci breakers. The updated code calls for them with the 14-50 outlets, but not when hardwired. In our AHJ, they have yet to adopt the changes so we are not required to do so yet. Still, I am moving away from any plug-in installation. You need commercial grade outlets, the neutral (unused) wire and sometimes the gfci breaker. As mentioned, inspectors are wanting to see the manuals. Many state 90 Degree copper which rules out romex regardless of amperage. Go hardwired.
if you use teck in from the bottom then you have to use a coupling and nipple to get it to fit. then the grounding bushing also doesnt fit with the lug attached.
It is very ironic that at the beginning he said, "This is not really a DIY project and should be done by a licensed Electrician, yet he managed to violate many codes as stated by Stephen Beecher, who was spot on by the way, so I will not repeat them. Russ-J Electrician from Oregon
Videos like this can inspire many. Just make sure you are getting it right. I am not trying to criticize here, rather provide information for everyone. The National Electric Coe (nec) does not apply to everyone in the world and it was written in the blood and tears of those people in the past. So, in America, most places us it. Do you need a permit for this? Maybe, make a call or two. Are my wires big enough....not to the charger but to your house? Here, effectively 2 additional oven/stoves were added to your electric panel to run for 6-10 hours. Is there space, will they carry the current in the wires from your utility company to your house? As far as the connecting it up: Nec 90.4 allows you local building guys to interpret the nec. Nec 110.14 terminal connection puts your wire under the 60 degree C column (No.8 thhn at 40 amps not the other ratings based on the breaker terminals). Nec 210.8 now requires 125-250 volt recepticles in your garage, outbuilding, sheds and outside be gfci protection. Nec 220 has the calculation procedures to ensure you have room for the extra power your house will use. Nec table 310.16 gives you your wire size based on the lowest temp rating of terminals in the circuit. (Normally 60 degrees c based on your breaker terminals,). Nec 406.9 (B) calls for the recepticle outside to have a "weatherproof" cover while the unit is plugged in. Nec 625 is for Electrci vehicle power transfer system (car chargers) with many appropriate requirements. 625.40. Each outlet for car chargers get one circuit. So for this video...2 sets of breakers and 2 wire runs. 625.41 says to rate the circuit at a minimum of 125% of the maximum Load of equipment. (A 40 Amp max rated charger needs a 50 Amp wire/breaker no matter what you set it to. Yes, a 40 Amp charger throttled down to 32 amps still needs a 50 Amp circuit.) 625.54 requires a gfci if you put in a recepticle to protect the recepticle no matter what is in the charger. (Required in at least 2017 maybe earlier). 625.56 again weatherproof recepticle cover for outside recepticles with the cord plugged in. I did not mention any requirements for conduit, conduit runs, or wire runs and more. Your building department may see a relay/contactor/bus transfer switch of some kind to allow a set up like this to only power one outlet at a time, one charger at a time. It is not impossible for an average home owner to get the information needed to do this job safely and correctly. Most Electricians want a safe build and so do the building inspectors. Do not be afraid to ask. You might find an electrician to come buy and get you all the info you need. You might have to slip them a beer or a meal or some cash, but you can physically do It all. Please do it safely and do not just "make it work". I know electric, not insurance. I do not know if they have to pay out if there is no permit or if they can prove it was not done to building codes. In this video, the risk could be the cars, the house, or even the lives of the guests. Dave, thank you for this video. Every video gives us a chance to learn. Some teach us what to do and some what not to do. Again, I am not trying to criticize here. You may have done everything according to your local building guys requirements. Again thanks.
You can't run the 14-50 and Tesla charger on the same circuit - aside from the code requirement that they stay on dedicated circuits, you will almost certainly trip the breaker if you tried to use both at the same time. Tenants stress test houses in ways you don't really think possible. If you're using the place as an Airbnb, *someone* will eventually do it.
I appreciate the DIY but as a caution for others wanting to do this depending on the breaker you can’t use that Romex in this install. There’s a lot this video is missing so aren’t you afraid of the risk of posting inaccurate information? You should at least get an electrician to sign off.
Nice job Dave but that ground wire should be one sized down from #6 to a #8 and always use black, red or blue tape on the white cables in all boxes. Anyone opening those boxes or splice boxes will know there is no neutrals inside.
6/2 Romex comes with a #10 ground and that's adequate for up to a 60 amp breaker (per the NEC table 250.122). If you size up to 4 AWG for your hots, you have to similarly upsize the ground wire even if you keep the breaker size the same, and then you'd probably end up with a #8.
Can you explain to me why the gen3 uses only two hot leads and a ground? What happened to the white common wire? The Nema 1450, of course, uses all 4 wires - 2 hot, 1 ground, and the white common. All 240v installs I’ve done for years always has the white
Chris the wall and mobile connector use 240 or 120 vac. When using 240 the use of L1 andL2 is all that’s needed. 120 is not needed by the connector just ground.
@@evdave528 The NEMA 14-50 needs to be wired with all 4 wires. The white N and green G is bonded only at the breaker panel in residential code. It is my understanding that the Tesla wall system only uses the Red, Black hot plus the Ground G connections so code says to put a wire nut on the white as it is not connected to anything, not even the Ground terminal. I believe new code doesn't apply to existing wiring, unless you do repair or changes. Then you must bring everything up to the latest code. Also as a matter of safety, is your NEMA 14-50 box rated for outdoor and water tight? Been many years since I worked as an electrician so I welcome any corrections.
While a common Brenda 14-50 receptive needs a neutral, when connected to a wall connector, neutral is not needed, no connection for it. So I didn’t run the wire
Dave, great video, but I am curious about NEC. There was no common wire because Tesla WC doesn’t use it. Does NEC require a common wire at nema 14-50 receptacle? Devices other than EVs could plug in here. You could have a sign saying EVs only. Does NEC permit a ground wire (#12) smaller than supply wire (#6). I thought all had to be same gauge. BTW, I installed a nema 14-50, 3 years ago for MS and it works great at 40 amps for 29 mph.
The neutral wire should be the same or larger gauge as the two hot wires. It matters not if Tesla uses the neutral. What if someone down the line decided to plug in else. There is no neutral that I can see.
@@rshanedavis YES, Dave is a really good guy and I highly value his videos. Hopefully, he is reading comments as I agree a common #6 wire (typically white) must be added to his installation. Dave should pin an addendum mentioning addition of common wire as I have done in two NEMA 14-50 installations for Teslas.
Loved the video, GREAT information and enjoyed each of the steps. I see you have both the Tesla Wall connector and a Nema 14-50 connector on the same breaker? Can you charge a Tesla and a 2nd car at the same time,? If so will the charging rate go down (seems like it should to me) or will you be able to charge both vehicles are the faster rates?
@@evdave528 Thanks, I must have missed the sign... keep up the great work and I love seeing your trips to different places with a Tesla and your wife and dogs in the back.
What size of wire and circuit beaker did you used in this setup? What will happened if two Tesla Y charging at the same time with this set up? Can the circuit breaker and wires handle it?
Use 6 THHN (B and R for hot and W for neutral) and 10 THHN green for ground, and each receptacles will be supplied by its own 50A breaker. Do not parallel
Wow did not know charge any EV car with high voltage. By the way 13,200 volts is only considered medium voltage so you must have over 20,000 volts. F'ing amasing.
Somehow I thought four wire Romex would be better than 3 wire. The Tesla Wall Connector only has connections for three wires.. Educate me EV Dave if you have time ?
As a retired sparky who no longer does any installs or repaired I have a serious concern. Does you city or township require a permit. What NEC cycle are you in. Some locations still allow homeowners to do their own work but you should always have the AHJ ( Authority having jurisdiction ) perform an inspection. You have to install either GFCI protection in some locations but if in the 2020 NEC would need AFCI protection. ( all of the class 1 arc fault breakers also n provide ground cult protection. We always called step bits unibits. Would have used a sealing lock nut to prevent water penetration.
No, technically this parallel connection is illegal per NEC. If two cars plug into this, it will trip the breaker right away. (best case scenario) If he keeps it this way, there better be a large sign indicating to only use one at a time. If there was room for only one circuit in his panel, I'd have just installed the NEMA 14-50 outlet and got a J1772 charger like a chargepoint if you wanted WiFi, or the Grizzl-e. Tesla owners should be carrying their J1772 adapter with them anyway. This way if the charger fails, it's easier to replace by just unplugging old one and plugging in a new one. Or the guest could unplug it and use their own mobile connector.
@@andrewt9204 agreed. The NEMA plugs is really all the EV companies should suggest for home retrofit. Their little laptop style charge brick should just have a NEMA prong plug on the back of it. The idea of installing proprietary charger boxes onto houses that do nothing but control 240v current is stupid. It is just to encourage brand loyalty.
@@STho205 I just installed my nema 6-50 plug today instead of ordering the Tesla wall connector. Even though my tesla will be here in the next few weeks I’m going to use the mobile connector at 32A on it and see how that works and if I need a little more power I will install a Grizzle E later. That way if in a few years I decide I want something other than a Tesla, I won’t be locked into a Tesla evse.
@@andrewt9204 probably will work great in reality that adapter brick should just be built into the car, with a basic NEMA plug extension cord and 124v AC cord standard in the charge bag. No flashy box or adapters. Tesla has POSH personal computer company philosophies like Apple and Next did. Our stuff is cool, everyone else is lame, and we'll make an exciting new charger plug system every new model... Making the last one and all the accessories useless. Not quite as bad as Apple, but along the same lines. However if they did that, all charge america would need is NEMA plugs near car parking, like they are near RV and boat slips.
1) you must move existing circuits downward to make the Tesla circuit pair #1 high. 2) you need to have spare breaker bays or call an electrician ($1000) and a power drop and permit $$$$ 3) you need a 200amp box and street feed. If not see 2. 4) if your main box is not in your garage or outside near your driveway. Add for buried conduit and a subpanel allowing line of sight safety breakers. Again see 2 and add another $$$$. 5) you have a masonry structure and solid brick wall to your attached garage. See 2, and also a licenced mason $$$$ and a permit. 6) then it's real easy. Put a gang of two high and breakers in the panel, same in subpanel and wire this nifty box into it ... BTW(this is the 3rd generation Tesla box in a decade, so figure on doing this again when the 4th generation Tesla box comes out next year... Must stay to top of tech) And the folks that will buy $25,000 TESLA/Chinese knockoffs of Tesla 2s are going to do all this correctly.... Sure. In 2030 we are going to see some crazy jury rig, there I did it, illegal and frightening wiring all over our nation. People can't even safely use space heaters and extension cords.
just not up to code besides the wall connector requires 60 amps so it will pull 48 amps max that will be 80% of continues electricity pull and de nema 14-50 requires AWG 6/3 wire 2 conductors neutral and ground wire so that it will pull or drew 32 amps other wise you should use a 6-50 nema receptacle to meet code DO NOT ever connect this 2 devices in parallel
No No No No wall charge plugs or module. Ceiling Install Pull rope down to the charge port Unplug and release the plug and cable to ceiling. So Never ever have a 240v plug / charger on a wall Clealing install the plug / cable with spring / bungee cord / rope weight with pull down ribbon for a pull-down plug / cable.
Yes Tesla has what is call Gen2 Wall. Never Ever have a 240v cable on the floor! Do the ceiling like fans like lights like smoke detectors. Ceoling is NBD and is super safe.
Where are the required straps to secure PVC running b up wall? If you are not a qualified electrician should not produce electrical vids with halve a dozen code vilolations.
I’m not sure what you mean by your comment. The wall connector charge is it 245 V AC at 45 A and uses single phase power and does not require a neutral.
Whoa!! There are lots of code violations in this install. Most importantly should never have multiple outlets on the same circuit. PLEASE DON’T FOLLOW THIS VIDEO!
Another TWC installation video full of problems. EV Dave you seem like a super nice guy with skills but I gotta ask why you didn't follow the directions in the manual and code requirements? Airbnb fire trap that the insurance company can use this video to deny the claim - not to code and no permit or licensed electrician. This isn't like installing a simple 15 amp outlet, this is a higher amp CONTINUOUS LOAD circuit and you will be entrusting strangers to use it safely? Just wow. First, you use the two wood screws with the gasket washers (and you even explained it) for an outdoor installation - bravo - but then you use (snuck in) a 3rd screw without one that looks like a drywall screw or deck screw. You didn't use a torque screwdriver - absolutely necessary tool to use here with a continuous load to prevent overheating, loosening of the connections and fire. Trust me, the torque needed is far more than with that little Allen wrench can do. Torque to spec at the breaker and at the TWC. Installing the inappropriate plug is just wrong for a continuous load and then sharing a circuit where both can be plugged in at the same time is beyond irresponsible. Of course you didn't use a weather tight connector either (one with a rubber O ring) to connect the TWC wall plate to the conduit. IT'S ALL IN THE INSTALLATION MANUAL! Please people, install these correctly so we don't get house fires which will give EV's a bad name and raise insurance costs for all EV owners. I'm not an electrician but the directions and reasons for the directions are all very clear. I couldn't even watch the entire video as it had so many mistakes in it ... .don't get me started on Romex 6 (and in a long run conduit to trap more heat, not just a wall pass through) if on a 60 amp breaker and of course not color taping the HOT white wire, etc. These installations are very simple but you must read the installation manual and be diligent about every detail. Remember - ampacity and torque connections matter since a continuous load! Be safe!
I guess you didn’t purchase your Tesla for environmental considerations considering that you let your plastic waste from reaming the holes just blow away?!
While this is a working solution, it has multiple code violations and is potentially not safe. Do not install these in parallel. Wall connector and Nema 14-50 each needs its own dedicated circuit. When using white wire for hot, wrap black electrical tape around ends to indicate it is indeed hot, and not neutral. Nema 14-50 must have neutral wire to meet code, even though EVSE will work without it. Good advice at the beginning of video; to have a licensed electrician do this work.
All of that, plus EV charging circuits must now be on GFCI breakers as of 2020 NEC code. He didn't show the breaker in the video, but I'm guessing it wasn't. Lastly, 8ga and 6ga wiring requires 10ga ground conductors, he only used 12 for the 14-50 receptacle. Edit - if he's using a 60a breaker, this is technically above the 14-50 receptacle rating and is another violation.
@@andrewt9204 The Tesla power wall(Both V2 and V3) does not work with a GFCI Breaker, read the manual. "do not install a GFCI circuit breaker.
".
@@chrisville25 true, I read that as well after I posted this. I was just going by what my county inspector told me to do last year. Since I "had" to have a GFCI breaker installed no matter what, I ended up putting a 6-50 receptacle in for now. Which is fine, I'm just using the mobile connector and limiting to 25 amps to reduce the line stress and the slower the better for battery longevity anyway. It's plenty for the 120mi/day I travel. Recharges in 6.5hrs.
Whenever I switch to a hardwired unit, I'll just remove the GFCI breaker.
@@andrewt9204 IIRC the Tesla wall connector has GFCI built in?
@@chevrofreak Yes, it does. Which means you shouldn't need one at the breaker. I think inspectors a bit out of the loop see an "EV" circuit and automatically say it needs GFCI. The code should be more clear on this and state that it's only required for EV circuits using a receptacle, and not hardwired EVSE's.
Or if they still want it, specify hardwire EVSE's require "equipment GFCI" (or class C) breakers, which trip at higher leakage current. So if there's an issue upstream of the EVSE, or the EVSE fails there's a little extra protection.
I enjoyed this video. I ran 6 AWG THHN conductors in conduit for my Tesla Gen 3 Wall Connector. My interpretation of the NEC concluded that NM-B (Romex) 6/3 cable ampacity is limited to the 60°C rating which is 55 Amps from Table 310-16. Double check this with your Authority Having Jurisdiction.
Exactly!
What you said is partially true. 6AWG NM-B (Romex) is only rated for 55amps at normal temp/distance. But there is a round up rule with breakers that says if you are not running more than the 55amps in this case, you can round up to the 60 amp breaker for the 6 awg wire.
You cannot put 60amps of load on the 6awg with the 60amp breaker but as long as its connected to a single hardwired charger like the tesla charger which only takes 48amps, it is no problem. Only issue is if you ever want a wall charger that pulls more than 55amps. Can't do this with receptacles because you could put something on it that pulls 60amps and overloads the wires but since the charger is capped at 48amps, and that is documented, it is ok.
@@Josh.1234 Hey, I know this is a super old comment… but for others that might see it, this is NOT a correct use of the “round up rule.” I’m a master electrician btw.
In this case the load is actually 60A, not 48A, because it’s a continuous load and we must consider the ADJUSTED value when determining wire size.
Just consulted an electrician (buddy of mine), and he said, "Oh that's easy, you can do it yourself."
So here I go
honestly if you can read specs for products and wiring, its not hard.. i think some people advise against it because there are some serious dumbasses out there who could screw up about anything. so you don't want them to burn their houses down
Great video and installation. I plan to do it and have a friend that's an electrician to check my work before its active.
Sounds good!
I believe you have two problems with this installation. The NEMA 14-50 outlet requires both a dedicated breaker and a Neutral conductor (even though the mobile charger does not use it). The dedicated circuit makes sense because two guests who may have charged before could plug in simultaneously and exceed the ampacity of the circuit. So I don't think you meet code at all with your installation of the NEMA 14-50 circuit.
I wondered why that third terminal wasn't used. So I would need #6 with 3 conductors and a ground?
@@jimmywicker1662 Yes, for a NEMA 14-50 it uses #6 with 3 conductors (6-3 NM-B) but the ground inside does not have to be that size. I think #8 is adequate for the ground. All three conductors are hooked up as well as the ground for devices that may use all three conductors. The Tesla wall charger does not use the neutral so it isn't required for that. So two #6 conductors and one smaller ground is fine. If the cable is completely buried inside a wall or overhead, I believe NM-B wire is OK (Non-Metallic Sheathed Cable) but if you use individual wires it should be in conduit.
If #6-3 NMB wire is used, don't forget that it needs to have cable clamps on each end and attached to the wall with staples or some sort of hold down for vertical rises. Also, when the wire penetrates studs or other boards inside the wall, it needs to be as far away from the edges (ie centered) as you can make it to prevent sheetrock nails and screws from penetrating and shorting the cable.
Always consult a licensed electrician for these types of installation if you don't know the local codes or have familiarity with these as electricity can be dangerous and screw ups can burn your house/garage down. But videos like this can give you things to look out for!
Yes, the wall connector should be on its own 60 AMP breaker, and the NEMA 14-50 should be on a 50 AMP breaker.
@@alex-650 Agreed! The "50" in NEMA 14-50 implies a 50 Amp breaker and no more than a 40 Amp continuous current draw. If a Tesla wall charger (EVSE) is used on that circuit, it should be provisioned for the 50 Amp breaker (via one's smartphone). If it is hardwired on a 60 Amp breaker it will only draw 48 Amps continuous.
I've gone back and looked and the conductors for ground and neutral for a 14-50 circuit should probably be at least #AWG 8. Ideally the three current conductors would be #6 and only the ground sized at a lower value.
good video the only observation is we have to face tape the white wire so simple put some black electric tape on it
Just installed this today with your help sir! Thanks for giving me the confidence!
Some talk here about gfci breakers. The updated code calls for them with the 14-50 outlets, but not when hardwired. In our AHJ, they have yet to adopt the changes so we are not required to do so yet. Still, I am moving away from any plug-in installation. You need commercial grade outlets, the neutral (unused) wire and sometimes the gfci breaker. As mentioned, inspectors are wanting to see the manuals. Many state 90 Degree copper which rules out romex regardless of amperage. Go hardwired.
You definitely need to come by and install my wall charger.
Hi. Thanks for the video, very helpful and easy to follow steps.
Glad it was helpful!
Another great informative video. Thanks Dave! I had a Tesla recommended electrician install a 14-50R in my garage and it’s working great.
Hello! How do you find a Tesla recommended electrician? Did you just ask someone at Tesla?
if you use teck in from the bottom then you have to use a coupling and nipple to get it to fit. then the grounding bushing also doesnt fit with the lug attached.
It is very ironic that at the beginning he said, "This is not really a DIY project and should be done by a licensed Electrician, yet he managed to violate many codes as stated by Stephen Beecher, who was spot on by the way, so I will not repeat them. Russ-J Electrician from Oregon
Thanks Dave. I'll show this to my father so he can install a NEMA for me so I can actually charge at a decent rate when I visit home.
Videos like this can inspire many. Just make sure you are getting it right. I am not trying to criticize here, rather provide information for everyone.
The National Electric Coe (nec) does not apply to everyone in the world and it was written in the blood and tears of those people in the past. So, in America, most places us it.
Do you need a permit for this? Maybe, make a call or two.
Are my wires big enough....not to the charger but to your house? Here, effectively 2 additional oven/stoves were added to your electric panel to run for 6-10 hours. Is there space, will they carry the current in the wires from your utility company to your house?
As far as the connecting it up:
Nec 90.4 allows you local building guys to interpret the nec.
Nec 110.14 terminal connection puts your wire under the 60 degree C column
(No.8 thhn at 40 amps not the other ratings based on the breaker terminals).
Nec 210.8 now requires 125-250 volt recepticles in your garage, outbuilding, sheds and outside be gfci protection.
Nec 220 has the calculation procedures to ensure you have room for the extra power your house will use.
Nec table 310.16 gives you your wire size based on the lowest temp rating of terminals in the circuit. (Normally 60 degrees c based on your breaker terminals,).
Nec 406.9 (B) calls for the recepticle outside to have a "weatherproof" cover while the unit is plugged in.
Nec 625 is for Electrci vehicle power transfer system (car chargers) with many appropriate requirements.
625.40. Each outlet for car chargers get one circuit. So for this video...2 sets of breakers and 2 wire runs.
625.41 says to rate the circuit at a minimum of 125% of the maximum
Load of equipment. (A 40 Amp max rated charger needs a 50 Amp wire/breaker no matter what you set it to. Yes, a 40 Amp charger throttled down to 32 amps still needs a 50 Amp circuit.)
625.54 requires a gfci if you put in a recepticle to protect the recepticle no matter what is in the charger. (Required in at least 2017 maybe earlier).
625.56 again weatherproof recepticle cover for outside recepticles with the cord plugged in.
I did not mention any requirements for conduit, conduit runs, or wire runs and more.
Your building department may see a relay/contactor/bus transfer switch of some kind to allow a set up like this to only power one outlet at a time, one charger at a time.
It is not impossible for an average home owner to get the information needed to do this job safely and correctly. Most Electricians want a safe build and so do the building inspectors. Do not be afraid to ask. You might find an electrician to come buy and get you all the info you need. You might have to slip them a beer or a meal or some cash, but you can physically do It all.
Please do it safely and do not just "make it work". I know electric, not insurance. I do not know if they have to pay out if there is no permit or if they can prove it was not done to building codes. In this video, the risk could be the cars, the house, or even the lives of the guests.
Dave, thank you for this video. Every video gives us a chance to learn.
Some teach us what to do and some what not to do.
Again, I am not trying to criticize here. You may have done everything according to your local building guys requirements.
Again thanks.
Great video..Thanks, Dave!!
I just got my Gen3 wall charger...and ready to install it, now.
You can't run the 14-50 and Tesla charger on the same circuit - aside from the code requirement that they stay on dedicated circuits, you will almost certainly trip the breaker if you tried to use both at the same time. Tenants stress test houses in ways you don't really think possible. If you're using the place as an Airbnb, *someone* will eventually do it.
Great Video, Thanks so MUCH!!
0:50 "Grab yourself a drink and a snack".....and let's do some electrical work. 😀
I like charge point set. tesla drivers usually have the adapter.
Yes they do
I appreciate the DIY but as a caution for others wanting to do this depending on the breaker you can’t use that Romex in this install. There’s a lot this video is missing so aren’t you afraid of the risk of posting inaccurate information? You should at least get an electrician to sign off.
Nice job Dave but that ground wire should be one sized down from #6 to a #8 and always use black, red or blue tape on the white cables in all boxes. Anyone opening those boxes or splice boxes will know there is no neutrals inside.
According to code in my area #10 ground would be fine for 60 amps.
6/2 Romex comes with a #10 ground and that's adequate for up to a 60 amp breaker (per the NEC table 250.122). If you size up to 4 AWG for your hots, you have to similarly upsize the ground wire even if you keep the breaker size the same, and then you'd probably end up with a #8.
Thank you for the extremely helpful video. :)
i didn't know it can be mounted outdoor. What happen when it rains?
Can you explain to me why the gen3 uses only two hot leads and a ground? What happened to the white common wire? The Nema 1450, of course, uses all 4 wires - 2 hot, 1 ground, and the white common. All 240v installs I’ve done for years always has the white
Chris the wall and mobile connector use 240 or 120 vac. When using 240 the use of L1 andL2 is all that’s needed. 120 is not needed by the connector just ground.
@@evdave528 The NEMA 14-50 needs to be wired with all 4 wires. The white N and green G is bonded only at the breaker panel in residential code. It is my understanding that the Tesla wall system only uses the Red, Black hot plus the Ground G connections so code says to put a wire nut on the white as it is not connected to anything, not even the Ground terminal. I believe new code doesn't apply to existing wiring, unless you do repair or changes. Then you must bring everything up to the latest code.
Also as a matter of safety, is your NEMA 14-50 box rated for outdoor and water tight?
Been many years since I worked as an electrician so I welcome any corrections.
While a common Brenda 14-50 receptive needs a neutral, when connected to a wall connector, neutral is not needed, no connection for it. So I didn’t run the wire
I really enjoyed your detail video, Dave!
Dave, great video, but I am curious about NEC. There was no common wire because Tesla WC doesn’t use it. Does NEC require a common wire at nema 14-50 receptacle? Devices other than EVs could plug in here. You could have a sign saying EVs only.
Does NEC permit a ground wire (#12) smaller than supply wire (#6). I thought all had to be same gauge. BTW, I installed a nema 14-50, 3 years ago for MS and it works great at 40 amps for 29 mph.
The neutral wire should be the same or larger gauge as the two hot wires. It matters not if Tesla uses the neutral. What if someone down the line decided to plug in else. There is no neutral that I can see.
@@rshanedavis YES, Dave is a really good guy and I highly value his videos. Hopefully, he is reading comments as I agree a common #6 wire (typically white) must be added to his installation. Dave should pin an addendum mentioning addition of common wire as I have done in two NEMA 14-50 installations for Teslas.
Ground wire can be smaller than current carrying conductors. It needs to be minimum 10 gauge copper per NEC for a 30 to 60 amp circuit.
Loved the video, GREAT information and enjoyed each of the steps. I see you have both the Tesla Wall connector and a Nema 14-50 connector on the same breaker? Can you charge a Tesla and a 2nd car at the same time,?
If so will the charging rate go down (seems like it should to me) or will you be able to charge both vehicles are the faster rates?
Sign indicates only one used at a time
@@evdave528 Thanks, I must have missed the sign... keep up the great work and I love seeing your trips to different places with a Tesla and your wife and dogs in the back.
are both the charger and the receptacle on the same 60amp breaker? eek.. that would trip
Dave- GREAT VIDEO! Does it load share if you use NEMA 14-50 and Tesla HPWC at same time? Small correction, Tesla J-1772 adapter is rated up to 72A
Load share only between hpwc v2 I used a switch
Dave does not believe in stud finders. His knuckles work the best.
I love it Great video.
Very, very good vid. But torque!
Yes, thanks
Glad to Learn how to do it...
But I would ask a Pro to do it for me...
Thanks for the Lesson it will help EV Car owners...
What size of wire and circuit beaker did you used in this setup? What will happened if two Tesla Y charging at the same time with this set up? Can the circuit breaker and wires handle it?
Ask your electrician he will size wire appropriately. You can load share with two v2 HPWCs
Use 6 THHN (B and R for hot and W for neutral) and 10 THHN green for ground, and each receptacles will be supplied by its own 50A breaker.
Do not parallel
Lowe's has fire extinguishers on sale.
Romex should not be ran in conduit due to heat effect.
Are you sure you don’t want a larger junction box on the inside 😂! Also, why pvc inside?
Wow did not know charge any EV car with high voltage. By the way 13,200 volts is only considered medium voltage so you must have over 20,000 volts. F'ing amasing.
Somehow I thought four wire Romex would be better than 3 wire. The Tesla Wall Connector only has connections for three wires.. Educate me EV Dave if you have time ?
I uses 240 single phase and a ground. 2-#6 and #10
At least 4 code violations in this video. Please don't do what Dave did. Only good advice in this video is, "Consult a licensed electrician."
We need help fix chargers
Great video. Do I need a 200 Amp panel to install a wall charger?
No but your panel needs to have enough capacity to charge your car, ask your electrician
As a retired sparky who no longer does any installs or repaired I have a serious concern. Does you city or township require a permit. What NEC cycle are you in. Some locations still allow homeowners to do their own work but you should always have the AHJ ( Authority having jurisdiction ) perform an inspection. You have to install either GFCI protection in some locations but if in the 2020 NEC would need AFCI protection. ( all of the class 1 arc fault breakers also n provide ground cult protection. We always called step bits unibits. Would have used a sealing lock nut to prevent water penetration.
how do you do this if you have a finished basement and your panel is in the basement...
Hire an electrician.
Pay about $2000 and expect to upgrade your main panel too if you don't have the 200amp service or a modern box. In that case, $6000
What size connector did you use at 9:55?
John uses #6 THHN unless it’s a real long run, it’s good for the 48 amps the car needs.
Dave, can you use both chargers at the same time? What does it do to the charge rates? Thanks.
No, technically this parallel connection is illegal per NEC. If two cars plug into this, it will trip the breaker right away. (best case scenario) If he keeps it this way, there better be a large sign indicating to only use one at a time. If there was room for only one circuit in his panel, I'd have just installed the NEMA 14-50 outlet and got a J1772 charger like a chargepoint if you wanted WiFi, or the Grizzl-e. Tesla owners should be carrying their J1772 adapter with them anyway. This way if the charger fails, it's easier to replace by just unplugging old one and plugging in a new one. Or the guest could unplug it and use their own mobile connector.
One or the other not showing sign placed there it can later
@@andrewt9204 agreed. The NEMA plugs is really all the EV companies should suggest for home retrofit. Their little laptop style charge brick should just have a NEMA prong plug on the back of it.
The idea of installing proprietary charger boxes onto houses that do nothing but control 240v current is stupid. It is just to encourage brand loyalty.
@@STho205 I just installed my nema 6-50 plug today instead of ordering the Tesla wall connector. Even though my tesla will be here in the next few weeks I’m going to use the mobile connector at 32A on it and see how that works and if I need a little more power I will install a Grizzle E later. That way if in a few years I decide I want something other than a Tesla, I won’t be locked into a Tesla evse.
@@andrewt9204 probably will work great
in reality that adapter brick should just be built into the car, with a basic NEMA plug extension cord and 124v AC cord standard in the charge bag. No flashy box or adapters.
Tesla has POSH personal computer company philosophies like Apple and Next did. Our stuff is cool, everyone else is lame, and we'll make an exciting new charger plug system every new model... Making the last one and all the accessories useless. Not quite as bad as Apple, but along the same lines.
However if they did that, all charge america would need is NEMA plugs near car parking, like they are near RV and boat slips.
1) you must move existing circuits downward to make the Tesla circuit pair #1 high.
2) you need to have spare breaker bays or call an electrician ($1000) and a power drop and permit $$$$
3) you need a 200amp box and street feed. If not see 2.
4) if your main box is not in your garage or outside near your driveway. Add for buried conduit and a subpanel allowing line of sight safety breakers. Again see 2 and add another $$$$.
5) you have a masonry structure and solid brick wall to your attached garage. See 2, and also a licenced mason $$$$ and a permit.
6) then it's real easy. Put a gang of two high and breakers in the panel, same in subpanel and wire this nifty box into it ...
BTW(this is the 3rd generation Tesla box in a decade, so figure on doing this again when the 4th generation Tesla box comes out next year...
Must stay to top of tech)
And the folks that will buy $25,000 TESLA/Chinese knockoffs of Tesla 2s are going to do all this correctly.... Sure.
In 2030 we are going to see some crazy jury rig, there I did it, illegal and frightening wiring all over our nation. People can't even safely use space heaters and extension cords.
Very very nice video!!!!!!!!!
What’s with the hole near the grey box.........an oops
Chingon! 👌🏽🙌🏽
Probably better to get an electrician to do it. Would fail in canada and Probably US
Where’s this Airbnb located?
What a great job thay you did sir .👍👍👍
Add solar and your are good to go.
just not up to code besides the wall connector requires 60 amps so it will pull 48 amps max that will be 80% of continues electricity pull and de nema 14-50 requires AWG 6/3 wire 2 conductors neutral and ground wire so that it will pull or drew 32 amps other wise you should use a 6-50 nema receptacle to meet code DO NOT ever connect this 2 devices in parallel
Has a60 breaker and does not use a neutral
Call a licensed electrician to do this work.
Nice video.
How is that "heat pump" heater working in your model Y?
Very well
Best practice is to ALWAYS use PVC cleaner on conduit before applying glue.
No No No
No wall charge plugs or module. Ceiling Install Pull rope down to the charge port Unplug and release the plug and cable to ceiling. So Never ever have a 240v plug / charger on a wall Clealing install the plug / cable with spring / bungee cord / rope weight with pull down ribbon for a pull-down plug / cable.
Yes Tesla has what is call Gen2 Wall. Never Ever have a 240v cable on the floor! Do the ceiling like fans like lights like smoke detectors. Ceoling is NBD and is super safe.
Where are the required straps to secure PVC running b up wall? If you are not a qualified electrician should not produce electrical vids with halve a dozen code vilolations.
So you basically made 120V charger instead of 240V charger. This is completely wrong.
I’m not sure what you mean by your comment. The wall connector charge is it 245 V AC at 45 A and uses single phase power and does not require a neutral.
Whoa!! There are lots of code violations in this install. Most importantly should never have multiple outlets on the same circuit. PLEASE DON’T FOLLOW THIS VIDEO!
50 FOOT POUNDS? I don't think so.
Inch pounds
Here is the manual. www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/support/charging/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf
It says 50 ldf in. A weird designation
Another TWC installation video full of problems. EV Dave you seem like a super nice guy with skills but I gotta ask why you didn't follow the directions in the manual and code requirements? Airbnb fire trap that the insurance company can use this video to deny the claim - not to code and no permit or licensed electrician. This isn't like installing a simple 15 amp outlet, this is a higher amp CONTINUOUS LOAD circuit and you will be entrusting strangers to use it safely? Just wow. First, you use the two wood screws with the gasket washers (and you even explained it) for an outdoor installation - bravo - but then you use (snuck in) a 3rd screw without one that looks like a drywall screw or deck screw. You didn't use a torque screwdriver - absolutely necessary tool to use here with a continuous load to prevent overheating, loosening of the connections and fire. Trust me, the torque needed is far more than with that little Allen wrench can do. Torque to spec at the breaker and at the TWC. Installing the inappropriate plug is just wrong for a continuous load and then sharing a circuit where both can be plugged in at the same time is beyond irresponsible. Of course you didn't use a weather tight connector either (one with a rubber O ring) to connect the TWC wall plate to the conduit. IT'S ALL IN THE INSTALLATION MANUAL! Please people, install these correctly so we don't get house fires which will give EV's a bad name and raise insurance costs for all EV owners. I'm not an electrician but the directions and reasons for the directions are all very clear. I couldn't even watch the entire video as it had so many mistakes in it ... .don't get me started on Romex 6 (and in a long run conduit to trap more heat, not just a wall pass through) if on a 60 amp breaker and of course not color taping the HOT white wire, etc. These installations are very simple but you must read the installation manual and be diligent about every detail. Remember - ampacity and torque connections matter since a continuous load! Be safe!
I would recommend deleting this video. Just enough knowledge to be dangerous...
Don’t do this in the UK people. Use a qualified electrician.
Don't do this in the US either.
Hire a licensed electrician and he will likely have to pull a permit.
Are you an electrician?
There is no way he is an electrician, what he did is not to code.
I guess you didn’t purchase your Tesla for environmental considerations considering that you let your plastic waste from reaming the holes just blow away?!
Tesla installs this for free
Can you explain more about free install? I will buy tesla later this year.
It does not. About $1000 charge from Tesla recommended local electrician
typo 17:05? i.e. s/b Torqued to 50 in-lbs.