I believe the reason why most controllers nowadays have 2 pcbs is definitely a cost-effective way to fix controllers if one part breaks like the A button then all you have to do is replace that board
These sticks are a decent replacement for originals if those are drifting, but calibrating them is a bit of a pain in the ass, i've been using a set on a Series x controller for a few months with no real issues so far
Hey, I read that due to the difficulty in obtaining the screens for the slate kit there were no plans to restock the store. Is this true or will there eventually be more stock for the slate kits?
VERY GOOD VIDEO! a lot of people don't understand that tearing open this chinese bullshit is a special kind of hell, you actually talk a lot of sense and I would ask that you try and find the same sticks that ifixit use in their video as their hall effect sticks had a circularity error of only 7.7% which is pretty spot on and since they're HE sticks they stay at that 7.7% permanently... seriously though man I frickin love this video! have a like and sub!
To be fair calibration on ANY stick, carbon film or otherwise can be an absolute pain. I’ve tried replacing the switch pro controller with the same 10kohm spec, same footprint, same brand, alps pots and housings and they never work for seemingly no apparent reason and calibrating them gets them working like 60% tops. I don’t understand what’s going on in modern controllers where the rules about sticks are magic and made up.
TL;DR, rules about sticks are magic and made up, like you said. --- I believe I explain this in a video I have but since I'm yet to publish it, that doesn't really help. The issue is that the combination of three mechanical devices which all have their own tolerances adds up to a noticeable non-zero value. It's unfeasible to manufacture the parts of these stick boxes with tight enough tolerances that the calibration is always correct. Resistors in particular are extremely difficult to get bang on. If you measure a few of your 10K pots on your controller sticks, I'm sure you'll get a few different values. Acceptable variance for most carbon film based resistors is likely 1% but 5% and 10% also exist and are relatively common. This is why a lot of older analog devices have "trim pots" hidden somewhere for calibration because all these percentages in a complex device will add up. Every Game Boy console has a trim pot for calibrating LCD voltages (DMG-01, Pocket, and Light all have beefier trim pots and labeled them "contrast" whereas the rest of the models hide the trim pot by or in the battery compartment). Beyond the resistors is the actual moving mechanism that makes up the x and y encoder that you interface with your thumb. These parts aren't built with discrete bearings (expected lifespan vs price, etc) so the material is expected to wear down. This means that the mechanism has to be designed to account for varying tolerances here too. Add up the tolerance of the stick itself and then the tolerance of the resistor and you can get some pretty not insignificant variance in what "center" is. Historically, manufacturers have accounted for these variations by building a huge deadzone into the controller itself. You'd have to move the stick quite a bit before it would actually register so it didn't matter what the stick called "home" so long as the cumulative variation was less than x%. The controls in the games too were also quite a bit less precise than modern equivalents. As manufacturing processes have improved, processing capabilities of embedded devices has skyrocketed, and feature creep has set in, manufacturers are doing things a wee bit different now. Currently, manufacturers account for this variation by allowing calibration at the firmware level. Recently, Microsoft has allowed users to recalibrate their fourth generation xbox series controllers using their "Xbox Accessories" app but this does not work for older model controllers like what I have for this video. I don't have a 3rd gen to test with but it likely works with this too. 1st gen and older is definitely out though. Nintendo also seems to allow this with their first party Switch controllers as well (so long as you do it through a switch). Hall effect based sticks can solve one of these two calibration hurdles in that the hall effect sensor is always going to have very little tolerance on the output compared to a carbon film based resistor. This is fantastic for hardware designed with hall effect sensors in mind but for hardware built for carbon-film, the controller itself is going to have hard coded calibration data that the hall effect sensors will need to work against. Additionally, the stick mechanism is going to be susceptible to the exact same mechanical wear and tear as the carbon film based variant because this portion of the hardware is identical. As soon as manufacturer's allow access to this calibration data (either being able to zero it for hall effect retrofitting or reinitialize for new carbon film resistors), this issue will likely work itself out. Instead, most would prefer you just buy a new controller. For controllers designed for and shipping with hall effect sticks, manufacturers can actually implement a few firmware level controls to help address the mechanical wear and tear that these parts experience. For starters, resetting the calibration to zero upon powering up the controller would noticeably improve the long-term experience. Older controllers with optical based encoders (which incidentally solves more issues with carbon film based sticks despite pre-dating them) required this functionality because there was no "home" reading. The optical based sticks could only track relative motion so when you turn on the hardware, the stick sets its current position as home. N64 functioned this way and that's a big reason why those sticks only experience mechanical failure and don't "drift". The design of those controllers is not great for other reasons but that's beside the point.
What do you use on your living room PC? You use like Steam Input on Windows or have you installed HoloISO? I put HoloISO on an old Optiplex with a 6700K/RX 6400 and it's a decent little gaming machine for my old 1080p TV but it's not an incredible experience. The DS4 with the touchpad is nice, but it still leaves a lot to be desired. I hope Valve releases a Steam controller again taking inspiration from the Deck. The Deck's trackpads are absolutely incredible for controlling a PC solely from a gamepad. Hall effect sticks would be great for a first-party Steam controller V2. Doing the Gulikit sticks on my deck is easy, but I still wish they had just opted for hall effect from the get-go.
have you try to replace newer model xbox controller (1914 type) with this analog hall?, because my 1914 controller went crazy last time i try to replace the original analog with hall effect one
So controllers today are basically small computers. An old xbox controller is just a circuit board lol. No "arms race" or anything like that there buddy, but I get your frustration
Does the left stick need shielding in order to work? here in South Africa they tell you that they will not be able to replace the left stick with a hall effect sensor module as the triggers mess with the analogue sticks magnets. Not sure if its a lie or if their just not skilled enough to do it so they say that they cant do it
They should, it's basically the same exact controller just with rear buttons, so I don't see why they wouldn't. I am planning on putting some in mine soon.
I haven't checked lately but when that tool released, I did check. The calibration tool specifically is only compatible with xbox series controllers. This specific controller is an xbox one controller (no share button and micro USB instead of usb type-c). It is not compatible, unfortunately despite being basically the same hardware.
try them out, they just released and implement electromagnetoresistance in order to deliver a good signal but having more lifespan due to using magnets as well as hall effect joysticks, they also deliver the same output as with the alps joysticks and in xbox series s can be recalibrated to be centered with low percentajes in circularity tests
@@danielc5647 I'm willing to try out alternatives for this (because the alternative is e-wasting this controller) but I have exceptionally low confidence in these products based off what I've seen so far and all the misleading marketing.
‘20 minute video’ at the 32 minute mark. Never had the pleasure of having to take one of these apart, but this will be a fun resource if I ever do
I believe the reason why most controllers nowadays have 2 pcbs is definitely a cost-effective way to fix controllers if one part breaks like the A button then all you have to do is replace that board
The aftermarket metal joysticks have the issue of effecting the trigger like yours has, the factory ones don't. I found this out the hard wat too.
Great critique of current solutions including those drift fix pcbs.
These sticks are a decent replacement for originals if those are drifting, but calibrating them is a bit of a pain in the ass, i've been using a set on a Series x controller for a few months with no real issues so far
Hey, I read that due to the difficulty in obtaining the screens for the slate kit there were no plans to restock the store. Is this true or will there eventually be more stock for the slate kits?
VERY GOOD VIDEO! a lot of people don't understand that tearing open this chinese bullshit is a special kind of hell, you actually talk a lot of sense and I would ask that you try and find the same sticks that ifixit use in their video as their hall effect sticks had a circularity error of only 7.7% which is pretty spot on and since they're HE sticks they stay at that 7.7% permanently... seriously though man I frickin love this video! have a like and sub!
To be fair calibration on ANY stick, carbon film or otherwise can be an absolute pain. I’ve tried replacing the switch pro controller with the same 10kohm spec, same footprint, same brand, alps pots and housings and they never work for seemingly no apparent reason and calibrating them gets them working like 60% tops.
I don’t understand what’s going on in modern controllers where the rules about sticks are magic and made up.
TL;DR, rules about sticks are magic and made up, like you said.
---
I believe I explain this in a video I have but since I'm yet to publish it, that doesn't really help. The issue is that the combination of three mechanical devices which all have their own tolerances adds up to a noticeable non-zero value. It's unfeasible to manufacture the parts of these stick boxes with tight enough tolerances that the calibration is always correct.
Resistors in particular are extremely difficult to get bang on. If you measure a few of your 10K pots on your controller sticks, I'm sure you'll get a few different values. Acceptable variance for most carbon film based resistors is likely 1% but 5% and 10% also exist and are relatively common. This is why a lot of older analog devices have "trim pots" hidden somewhere for calibration because all these percentages in a complex device will add up. Every Game Boy console has a trim pot for calibrating LCD voltages (DMG-01, Pocket, and Light all have beefier trim pots and labeled them "contrast" whereas the rest of the models hide the trim pot by or in the battery compartment).
Beyond the resistors is the actual moving mechanism that makes up the x and y encoder that you interface with your thumb. These parts aren't built with discrete bearings (expected lifespan vs price, etc) so the material is expected to wear down. This means that the mechanism has to be designed to account for varying tolerances here too.
Add up the tolerance of the stick itself and then the tolerance of the resistor and you can get some pretty not insignificant variance in what "center" is.
Historically, manufacturers have accounted for these variations by building a huge deadzone into the controller itself. You'd have to move the stick quite a bit before it would actually register so it didn't matter what the stick called "home" so long as the cumulative variation was less than x%. The controls in the games too were also quite a bit less precise than modern equivalents. As manufacturing processes have improved, processing capabilities of embedded devices has skyrocketed, and feature creep has set in, manufacturers are doing things a wee bit different now.
Currently, manufacturers account for this variation by allowing calibration at the firmware level. Recently, Microsoft has allowed users to recalibrate their fourth generation xbox series controllers using their "Xbox Accessories" app but this does not work for older model controllers like what I have for this video. I don't have a 3rd gen to test with but it likely works with this too. 1st gen and older is definitely out though. Nintendo also seems to allow this with their first party Switch controllers as well (so long as you do it through a switch).
Hall effect based sticks can solve one of these two calibration hurdles in that the hall effect sensor is always going to have very little tolerance on the output compared to a carbon film based resistor. This is fantastic for hardware designed with hall effect sensors in mind but for hardware built for carbon-film, the controller itself is going to have hard coded calibration data that the hall effect sensors will need to work against. Additionally, the stick mechanism is going to be susceptible to the exact same mechanical wear and tear as the carbon film based variant because this portion of the hardware is identical.
As soon as manufacturer's allow access to this calibration data (either being able to zero it for hall effect retrofitting or reinitialize for new carbon film resistors), this issue will likely work itself out. Instead, most would prefer you just buy a new controller.
For controllers designed for and shipping with hall effect sticks, manufacturers can actually implement a few firmware level controls to help address the mechanical wear and tear that these parts experience. For starters, resetting the calibration to zero upon powering up the controller would noticeably improve the long-term experience. Older controllers with optical based encoders (which incidentally solves more issues with carbon film based sticks despite pre-dating them) required this functionality because there was no "home" reading. The optical based sticks could only track relative motion so when you turn on the hardware, the stick sets its current position as home. N64 functioned this way and that's a big reason why those sticks only experience mechanical failure and don't "drift". The design of those controllers is not great for other reasons but that's beside the point.
What do you use on your living room PC? You use like Steam Input on Windows or have you installed HoloISO? I put HoloISO on an old Optiplex with a 6700K/RX 6400 and it's a decent little gaming machine for my old 1080p TV but it's not an incredible experience. The DS4 with the touchpad is nice, but it still leaves a lot to be desired. I hope Valve releases a Steam controller again taking inspiration from the Deck. The Deck's trackpads are absolutely incredible for controlling a PC solely from a gamepad. Hall effect sticks would be great for a first-party Steam controller V2. Doing the Gulikit sticks on my deck is easy, but I still wish they had just opted for hall effect from the get-go.
controllercompanion
have you try to replace newer model xbox controller (1914 type) with this analog hall?, because my 1914 controller went crazy last time i try to replace the original analog with hall effect one
I have the same problem. Did you find any solution?
So controllers today are basically small computers. An old xbox controller is just a circuit board lol. No "arms race" or anything like that there buddy, but I get your frustration
Does the left stick need shielding in order to work? here in South Africa they tell you that they will not be able to replace the left stick with a hall effect sensor module as the triggers mess with the analogue sticks magnets. Not sure if its a lie or if their just not skilled enough to do it so they say that they cant do it
you can do it but they aren't incorrect u do need some sort of sheilding
So will hall effect work on a Elite Series 1 Controller?
They should, it's basically the same exact controller just with rear buttons, so I don't see why they wouldn't. I am planning on putting some in mine soon.
Why the Lego Technic pieces over the desk?
Can you not just use the xbox calibration tool to fix the circularity?
I haven't checked lately but when that tool released, I did check. The calibration tool specifically is only compatible with xbox series controllers. This specific controller is an xbox one controller (no share button and micro USB instead of usb type-c). It is not compatible, unfortunately despite being basically the same hardware.
You should clean your desoldering gun more
You're right, I should.
Use gulikit TMR!!!
try them out, they just released and implement electromagnetoresistance in order to deliver a good signal but having more lifespan due to using magnets as well as hall effect joysticks, they also deliver the same output as with the alps joysticks and in xbox series s can be recalibrated to be centered with low percentajes in circularity tests
@@danielc5647 I'm willing to try out alternatives for this (because the alternative is e-wasting this controller) but I have exceptionally low confidence in these products based off what I've seen so far and all the misleading marketing.