What lies ahead for the Auto Industry in 2024? Sandy's Predictions (+ BIG Announcement!)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- Jordan interviews Sandy about his automotive industry predictions for 2024 - and makes a major announcement about what Munro & Associates has in store this calendar year.
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0:00 A Watershed Year Ahead
5:10 Sandy's Cybertruck Experience
17:58 Responses to Cybertruck's Success
21:01 Competition is Coming
28:34 Price Cuts & Demise of the Chevy Bolt
34:26 Why Ford Dealerships Aren't Selling EVs
37:55 Castings
43:10 Keeping Up With the Chinese
46:03 Will Lucid and Rivian Survive?
51:10 Implementation of Humanoid Bots in Manufacturing
54:23 BIG Announcement!
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#tesla #cybertruck - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
After hearing Sandy’s remarks about Lucid makes me wonder what really happened with Cory. Did he leave on good terms, I’m thinking not. Perhaps I missed it but I don’t remember seeing a video with Sandy congratulating him on his new career and that he’ll be missed. Nor has Cory said much on X either. It’s all very strange. You’d think Lucid would have a better chance of success now that Cory is there and working on the smaller, less expensive vehicle platform. But not a mention from Sandy, which is why I believe things between them didn’t end well. The show is definitely not the same without Cory.
Pure conjecture here, but my sense is that Cory felt like he got the title of President at Munro, but not the job. Sandy saw Cory as his protege, but not yet as his successor. It can't be easy being in the shadow of someone like Sandy.
In another video, Sandy said that Munro & Associates had a difficult year 2023 and had to lay off quite a few people. He said that things have improved, and he's hiring them back. He didn't mention Corey's role in any of this. I'm just happy that things are going better now.
My theory is they threw good money at Cory, and Sandy said the company won't be around long. I don't think Sandy could have matched the amount of money that Lucid was throwing around.
@@vinht23 I read in a financial report today that Lucid only sold 6000 of 8400 vehicles made. At a starting price of 100 grand Canadian I don't see them being around long.
@@johnarnold893saudi aramco has a lot of money. And every review i read says Lucid quality is very high, especially compared to Tesla. They are just moving slower. Munro has also reviewed their technology and said how advanced it was.
Half of the EVs Ford sold in their quarterly report are still sitting on dealer lots. They are technically sold, but not to customers.
The same practice they've been using for years with ICEV, disused airfields full of 'sold' cars so they can claim to have the number one selling vehicle. Tesla state that a car is only sold if the transaction is complete and the car is in the possession of the owner, I would love to know if any other OEM follow that practice.
Screw the dealers. Wish we could get rid of them.
We can't and won't. They are responsible for too many jobs.
As for Fords EVs? Car makers thought they could just make an EV without giving it anything special outside it is an EV.
They need to be better than Tesla. Offer free charging, and make charging networks.
It is ridiculous. They have the cash yet they somehow are still stuck in the past.
They do have their foot in the door. So I tip my hat. Unlike Toyota who pushed out a terrible vehicle just to shut people up. Think they are going hybrid.
God forbid companies go for hydrogen. If hydrogen was going to work it should have been happening NOW. Batteries are just only going to get better. Hydrogen has physical limitations.
ya, but the Lightning is a great vehicle actually, I know two people who have them up north in BC here, and they love them, and they are only getting better. I think they just made too much shit people don't actually want.
@@viperswhip it's a good car, but profit relies on high level trim, people don't want them in this economic situation, hence dealers have lots of lightning platinum they can't sell, and dealers then complain EV trucks don't sell, nowhere has the base level though, because Ford makes more of a loss on those
@@viperswhipI own one in Chicago and LOVE IT. Best car I've owned but it better be for what I paid for it
I worked in the automotive industry for over 50 years and the practice of making something cheaper to "save" money and get a cash bonus is removing quality until the just before the part in question stops working. The macroscopic effect of decreasing quality until the parts do not work is auto industry crashes and saturation of management positions to solve the problems that should not exist in the first placed dooming the auto company using false optimization.
Astute observations !
I do not know where you worked . I purchased a new 2018 Camry LE. $25,500 and I can say that this vehicle is the best ever. The design, engineering and quality are all better than all others I have owned . Volkswagen, Chrysler, Chevrolet, Pontiac ,Honda, Kia , Toyota.
I think there is some validity to what you say, but it is also true that over the last 50 years, cars have gradually become much more reliable, even with increased complexity around safety systems, electronics, etc. Back in the 70s, 80s, 90s, a car would last only 100,000 miles, and would be in the shop often. Cars built in the last 20 years are much safer, more fuel efficeint, more comfortable, and more reliable. Inflaton adjusted, they are also cheaper, total cost of ownership. What am I missing?
I totally disagree with your comment.
This is also reason why traditional automotive thinking is outdated.
You can reduce cost while improve quality and reduce complexity at same time.
Why do I need multiple controller when I can fold everything into a big ECU whose computing power that is idling due to FuSA requirement.
This is exactly same trap that Sandy can’t grasp either.
Why do I need tons of directional can bus wiring? When Ethernet is faster and doesn’t have directional issue?
Reducing number of ECU/MCU also reduces number of software royalty you need to pay.
It’s not false optimization it’s lack of understanding of system that is the biggest problem old automotive industry doesn’t understand.
Amen brother.
It's in Tesla's interest, to have the entire industry convert to 48v. It increases supplies & suppliers, reducing costs further, at a market scale, rather than just the savings internal to Tesla's design.
I think reduction of copper usage and reduction of waste of energy in lower current good for humanity too
It is in everyone's interest for that to happen because it means lighter conductors and more power available.
'Ev's no maintenance'' is pure nonsense people blowing smoke up your azz. You gotta replace the cabin filter and transmission filter and the transmission fluid if you are dual motor that means adding new fluid and filter to both motors 2 quarts,2 filters. You gotta change the tires more often and they're harder to find and more expensive than ice. You gotta change the brake pads, you gotta change the 12v battery and if you gotta replace the traction battery its more expensive than combustion engine replacement. You gotta change the brake fluid and add windshield washer fluid. You gotta add new radiator fluid the upfront cost for ev is more expensive and the car insurance is more expensive its all smoke and mirrors from these fraudsters.
@@mattwill63 "transmission filter and the transmission fluid" - Tesla says you DON't need to replace these. Ever. Back when they still recommended such replacements, the first one was supposed to be at 12,500 miles, and the next one - at 90,000 miles. Compare to ICE oil replacement schedule and weep.
"You gotta change the tires more often" - Not if you are driving the same way you drove your ICE car before.
"and they're harder to find and more expensive than ice" - They are of regular, frequently used sizes for all Tesla models. And they cost EXACTLY as much as tires for ICE cars capable of similar performance.
"You gotta change the brake pads" - MUCH less frequently than on an ICE car, because more braking is done by motor(s).
"and if you gotta replace the traction battery" - IF is the key word here. Chances of having to do this on a Tesla within first 12 years of ownership are quite a bit lower than on most ICE cars.
To put it bluntly, while the 'no maintenance EVs' trope is definitely an exaggeration, the one blowing smoke up readers' ass here is you.
@@Alex_Shishkin_1962 to put it bluntly never listen to how many miles they tell you to replace fluid in transmissions you always wanna do it every couple thousand miles just like any normal ice vehicle unless you want your crap to wear out same with oil changes people have been having problems with tesla motors also why? because they listening to tesla going long periods of time without changing fluids lol.Ev tires wear out faster because the vehicles are heavier period the weight wears em out faster plus they need special compounds to support that extra weight not a commodity item they're niche so you mostly gotta special order and wait for this crap to be shipped also more expensive.
Good mix. Sandy's long experience and Jordon's engineer's insight. Jordon is also very well spoken and thoughtful in his comments.
Going back to the early 90’s when I worked as an engineer for the UK MoD, we moved over to ‘steer by wire’ on the tracked Warrior armoured personnel carrier. Also had a Yoke steering wheel!
Are the Warrior sold to citizens (that can afford them) or is it only a MoD thing ?
If it's an MoD thing only it won't need to show profitability...only be useful (enough)...and soldiers don't get a say in yoke or wheel
Steer-by-wire on a heavy APC is most definitely clever !
I vaguely remember this, what bugs me is that we somehow fail to back our engineers and exploit British innovation commercially
@@OveToranger Surplus demilled armoured vehicles are legal to own in the UK (e.g. the Abbott SPG) but you can't just buy them from the factory. The MoD has its own auctions for getting rid of stuff. Dunno if the Warrior is old enough to be getting retired yet.
Sandy is right. I cannot take Consumer Reports seriously when they consider a car "reliable" when it needs a visit at a dealer every 3,000 miles. That is absurd.
I gave up on CR years ago. A simple internet search will yield far more reliable, up-to-date information and analysis.
Nothing in Europe needs a 3000 mile visit, 12000 is minimum
No one "has" to go to a dealer for an oil change. And oil changes aren't 3K miles anymore.
That is probably the downfall of the gas guzzler of today, the extended time between oil changes is killing the engines.@@CallsignVega
Bet ICE manufacturers put some cash in people's pockets to speak badly about them.
Also bet they pay certain groups to create fake accounts that spam any account talking about EV.
Tear up a BYD for us Sandy, compare and contrast
Sandy mispoke. Tires do not last longer on EVs, they last on average half as long and the tires required cost more because of the added weight requirements. Reports have shown the cost of new tires on EVs basically negates the cost savings of not having to replace brake pads and rotors as often as on traditional ICE vehicles.
Are you a bot? Just went 50k miles on my original TM3 tires. Please educate yourself.
@@UndefeatedDeity Educate yourself. EV tires cost more and on average are replaced more often. I went 75,000 miles on my original tires for one of my small Honda cars once, doesn't mean everyone's tires will because driving habits and road conditions matter. Anecdotes aren't the same as collective data. Review actual reports first. Just a basic understanding of physics tells you why that is the case: 1) Faster acceleration wears tires faster, and Tesla's and many other EVs can accelerate faster than average cars. 2) EVs weigh more and need more expensive extra load tires to support the added weight, also causing more wear on tires. 3) EV tires are often specially designed to lower road noise because it's a bigger concern for EVs with no engine noise, which also ads manufacturing cost compared to standard tires. I can guarantee you Tesla's Model 3 stock tires cost more than the stock tires on a similar ICE sedan.
Sandy’s comment about the need to implement a 48 volt architecture for competitors to succeed is the reason I think the Tesla refresh of model Y may include the 48 volt architecture.
No it will not. Only a newly built Model Y would get the new features. Not a refresh/facelift. Maybe in a few years they make it real. But not now.
I agree that they should be doing it asap, and I also agree that the next refresh won't have it. I think that's a missed opportunity, but I also understand that maybe there's some behind the scenes negotiation with other car manufacturers so they can all switch together, making parts cost effective for everyone.
2025 models mostly will get their 48 volt 😊
Elon a different CEO 👨💼
Eventually they will all be refreshed with latest tech
The new model Y doesn’t have it. I think they will wait for suppliers to retool as the cyber truck ramps up. Also they will see any kinks with 48v on the cyber truck.
Sandy should be thanked by the industry for pushing the casting concept. In fact, he should get an award of engineering excellence for that one!
This channel is the gift that keeps on giving ❤💚 Happy 2024. Keep on kicking ass, Sandy and the whole Munro team!
It's like phones. We went from land line phones (ICE) to pagers (hybrids) to smart phones (EV). How long did that take? I bet it's comparable.
People dont seem to realise that in many third world countries they skipped the land lines altogther and jumped straight to cell phones, lot less infrustructure build out. I think once these countries start jumping on EVs the demand will sky rocket. Electrical infrastructure is a lot easier to build out and will be a lot better enviromentally too.
Yeah, I'm still trying to learn how to deal with my so-called smartphone, at almost 81 it has been difficult, but I have upgraded to electric for all of the yard work, and my tools and my new E-Bike.
@@Hotspur37 The third world is going crazy for electric motorcycles with swappable batteries. Just like you can charge your phone at a roadside booth, you can swap a battery at a charging station. No range anxiety, no petrol. No more buda-buda, as they call them in Uganda.
@@jamesvandamme7786
AND they have the environment for solar-chargers that can work pretty much all year round ! Daytime ofc !
@@Hotspur37have you ever been to these countries? If you had you'd know that EV's are NEVER going to happen. That's never
Thanks, great interview, great perspective, congrats to Jordan and thanks for not being an intrusive interviewer (nice change). All the best for 2024
Did I miss something is Jordan the new President?
Just so refreshing to hear intelligent engineers who are working at the cutting edge of industry talk. Having worked with brushless electric motors on various projects, they are just so simple, efficient & reliable compared to combustion engines. When you think about it clearly, combustion engines serve a purpose for portable mobile power needs where a reliable electric power source cannot be connected to. We don't run our washing machines, angle grinders etc with ice motors and give them oil changes and replace spark plugs. Factories don't run their lathes etc with ice motors.
Now that battery technology has improved to the point that the packs can last longer than vehicle, and energy density and range is increasing fast, while their price is lowering, combustion motors will be used less and less.
You are absolutely right Sandy, dealerships are worried about the lack of servicing required, the lucrative spare parts industry legacy auto profits from is also going to be severely impacted.
Interesting to hear your memories of Japanese auto makers entering US market due to consumer demand. Interesting to see if same thing happens with Chinese EVs. I just wish more people would listen to real engineers like you guys talk about EV's, I'm constantly hearing people parrot inaccurate anti EV retoric they read on social media or hear from a mate at the pub. I know a motorcycle is less complex than a car, but the only maintenance I have needed to do on my little home built e motorcycle is pump up the tyres now and then.
small correction: wire cross sectional area is what carries current, so 48 volts does not let you drop the diameter to "a quarter". It does let you cut the wire diameter by 1/2 half though (pi * r^2 is area formula). I think he meant 1/4 the copper.
"Cultures are hard to change." That is one of the most critical observations Sandy made in the interview. He gets to the heart of the matter. That also applies to the customer. Many people still cannot imagine a world with EVs. That's why Tesla is such an important company. Tesla leads with a different culture that is not afraid to fail, which they see as part of the learning process and continual improvement. They understand change and embrace it. "A hybrid is going to be the pet rock of the future" was the other observation that resonated with me. It's incredible how much psychology affects the future and our capacity for change. For example, a hybrid is undoubtedly a half-measure; it does not represent real change, but Tesla's Cybertruck does. Change is coming, and when robots are manufactured with artificial intelligence, the world will experience another shift with large-scale implications for work and the economy. It was a fascinating interview, and I learned a lot.
lets see how long ford lightning last compare to f150.
People will buy what they want, and OEMS will sell that to them. EVs have a market niche .. but don't work for most people, cause you need a place at home to easily plug in.
musk has stated over and over that EVs are a niche product - @5% of the market - it's the politicians pushing EVs and smart companies know that
@@KrustyKlown Your comment isn't going to age well.
@@KrustyKlownmost who go BEV wont go back to ICE
I am glad to hear about Lucid and Rivian, still curious about Aptera which may start manufacturing this year.
Scams
I don’t see it as better in that many ways it’s a kids toy to me.
May start?? May go bust. Let's hope so
Sandy is so right about people's reaction to failure. You have to find the limits and understand the envelope. Failure is showing progress and learning.
There are people that insist in making errors again and again and learn nothing from. E.g. US voters wanting a rapist and criminal back as president or arrogantly continue making cars that are no more wanted and diesel engines that again fail because they have a construction error. Hope Tesla really keeps on learning fast and steadily improve parts that do not properly function and not starting to make customers responsible when it was their fault. Than everything is fine and future will be bright!
Failure is bankruptcy
@@anthropicandroid4494 failure is learning. Safety and complacency is going backwards.
Failure is learning - unless it kills you. On a bull dozer that goes 1 mile an hour steer by wire might be O.K. but at 70mph I'd rather have that mechanical connection from my hands to the wheels.
More plastic snaps. Tesla using public roads as a test bed,borders on criminal. Customer as test subjects is consumer fraud. Why does this expert push this nonsense as a good idea? How many shares in tesla does he have,that he hides,is that really ethical?
Here in Australia, the Chinese brands are coming in hard. We have GWM, MG and BYD and not only are they gunning for Tesla, they are going after Toyota, especially the best-selling RAV4, hi-lux truck and corolla.
They are not really in the same league as Tesla but they are definitely going to eat Toyota's & Honda's lunch.😊
@@jackdbur BYD is being very clever. They have 3 model Seals to bracket the Model 3. First model is $12k cheaper, not quite as good. Second model same price, same specs with few extra like apple car play USS leatger upgrade and third BYD performance model outclasses base Model 3 for about $10k more, but still less than old Tesla performance 3 by a long shot.
@@jackdbur true. However, I would like to replace the town (Brisbane) car for $40k not $66k. A BYD Dolphin would make sense.
A lot of people are going to be surprised when they wake up one day and hear that BYD is the number 3 automaker globally. And then a little while later they'll be surprised again when they hear that BYD is number 1, and Toyota is like number 3.
At this point, it seems the only thing that legacy OEMs can do is whine that the Chinese automakers are getting even more government support than the Western automakers.
Whah, whah, whah!!!
MG is also successful in Europe, GWM, BYD not so much. Guessing that customers don't realize that MG is Chinese.
Thanks for everything. I was missing Munro videos
We hope this was worth the wait!
@@MunroLivedo you think Vinfast will have any chance??? Thanks
Not too good reviews on Vinfast.
@@thienkim1754they’re currently selling in Montreal and they absolutely suck.
@@FirstLast-et3sw Thanks for feedback, hope they learn and improve.
VF3 LOOKS nice for a city car .
Good interview. Sandi tends to exaggerate some things such as EV‘s not requiring any maintenance apart from the ICE engine. EV has the same components and will require steering and suspension work. Shocks and tire replacements happen sooner on EV‘s because of their higher weight also an auto dealership has a role to play in overall satisfaction of a new technology like EV’sbeing adopted by their customers. Tesla approach to customer service is totally impersonal.
I’ve heard 10,000km on lightening tires
I have a 2005 Prius and other than maintenance of the ICE there is almost no maintenance on the rest of it. 360,000km and 19 years old
@@mikekent1149. You should see the popular Prius in Mongolia. It is common because Gasoline/Petrol is expensive in Mongolia. They drive those cars across the grass steppes when the roads are clogged.
What he’s referring to is oil change maintenance and tune up.
Sandi is so out of touch with reality, just a shill for his odd strange buddy the emerald kid, Mush. sad when old men thin they have all the answers,
Hope EXRO gets their stuff in some products! Loved that interview with them, very eye opening and sent me into a dive on their tech. Please get them back on the main channel!
The reason Tesla share how to recreate certain inputs for their cars is because they will benefit more greatly than their competitors from the economy of scale that their competitors will drive in the supply chain when they adopt it.
THATS WAS GREAT ! Watch the whole thing . Glad Jordan is in more videos straight forward questioning and doesn't cut Sandy off when he goes on a tangent , Like Cory did .
Golden phrase: 90% psychology and 10% technology in the engineering industry, change the mind culture is all about. ❤❤
It's actually rational to do that from the point of view of the employee: avoid the large risk of getting fired if a big change doesn't materialize as planned. Even if the probability of failure is small if the consequence is a catastrophic loss of job you'd avoid it. Especially given that implementing such big change as switching to giga castings requires top-notch execution not only from your organization but also from the supplier. The first manufacturer and his supplier both took the risk and proved it can be done. That made it less risky for everybody else to follow.
Now it's a question of leadership how they deal with employees taking risks: do they encourage it or discourage it?
I'm also 99% sure that a decision like going for gigacastings was backed by Elon himself, maybe he was even pushing for it.
To me the most interesting change will be the assembly method change talked about for the “$25,000” car by Tesla. That would be a major change in the factory layout and reduction of actual manufacturing costs independent of the parts in the car cost. Combined with the use of large castings it could be a nail in the coffin of some traditional auto manufacturers.
unbox process.
Bots will be the secret sauce of manufacturing the 25k car.
Many of them will have to go away, because of the new players that are better by Tatler and some of the China manufacturers. I will celebrate yes Ford and GM go bankrupt, having had to do business with those companies in the past.
@@steveedlund7357
As the unboxed process is being developed the designers certainly know what the T-bot will be able to do very, very soon. I think that has gone into design of previous models when one looks at the video of someone installing the front parts of the Model Y. The parts will only go in one way and are fastened by bolts from the top. This is easy bot work.
I doubt a T-bot will cost $10k to manufacture. Possibly no more than $5k at scale. Working 24/365 for years will create massive labor (and quality) savings.
The 25k car should be made using the 'hot wheels' single piece casting is my guess. That's gonna be insane
miss you, Sandy; great to hear your thoughts again.
Way back in college days, my Econ 101 instructor taught the class about "oligopolies". He used the auto industry as an example. Extremely capital intensive, so limited to a few big players. And none make a major change unless they all more or less move in lockstep. The Japanese sort of shook this up. But they are captives of the same system. Elon, like most of Silicon Valley, doesn't play by the same rules...
Now China is shaking things up again
Well said
In the UK in the 1960's, when Japanese motorcycles started appearing, there were dozens of British and European makes sold. Many were openly critical, and called them 'Jap crap'. Within a few years, the quality and reliability, as well as the technology, was far better than the domestic product...and most of the local companies had sadly disappeared. Their complacency, arrogance and sense of superiority...possibly a hangover from the War, had destroyed them.
I see a very similar effect happening with first the cars from Korea, which are close to equal to the German offerings...and soon with the new arrivals from China. If domestic manufacturers try and use political lobbying and unfair tariffs to try and prevent competition, instead of investing some of their eye-watering profits, away from CEO and shareholder payouts, to real R & D and future-proofing their products. they will go bankrupt.
Yeah Elon doesn’t play by the rules, that’s why Tesla vehicles suck so much and their employees make less than UAW workers. Which translates in subpar vehicle builds. I’ve driven thousands of Teslas, they fucking suck.
a think so, not sustainable, Tesla is more hype than substance. GE under Jack Welch was considered great, until it was found out it wasn't. Collapse, Boeing has GE acolytes and look how Boeing is failing. Mush is not a car engineer, nor a finance guy, he's a huckster...
More of this please Sandy as we move forward. The new guy is good. 👍🏻
Thank you so much
Look at what "NO" and "How much is this going to cost" culture has worked out for Boeing!
"Going"?
what a beautiful world it will be when planned maintenance and obsolescence don't rule the day.
That will never happen until "stealerships" [sic] are long gone the way of the dinosaur.
Then ecm updates will just brick your cars.
@@emonvidaly Time for an oil change.
@@stephen8623which is why Telsa does not have dealers, and why so many Ford dealers turning down the ability to sell EVs is going to be huge for Ford. They giving Ford an excuse to sell directly to customers. They can just say that dealers were given the option and said no.
@@stephen8623
I don't see how the current dealership model survives. Tesla has built a new model. As dealerships lose service and repair profits they will start failing. They won't have the money to maintain their large and expensive operations.
As dealerships disappear that will leave things open for surviving OEMs to move to direct sales or sales through quasi-dealership/sellers like Costco. Or stripped down dealerships which are just salesrooms like Tesla has.
I am just so glad you guys opened up to being filmed for YT - This stuff for the masses is liquid gold - I hope the genuine enquiries to your chargable business work keeps increasing!
Thumbs up.
Psychology/technology is like the 4 minute mile. After Roger Bannister ran a 4 minute mile suddenly many other runners could also do it. Tesla is like Roger Bannister, the first one to do so many innovations.
Excellent point!
yeah, excellent
''Ev's no maintenance'' is pure nonsense people blowing smoke up your azz. You gotta replace the cabin filters and transmission filter and the transmission fluid if you are dual motor that means adding new fluid and filter to both motors 2 quarts,2 filters. You gotta change the tires more often and they're harder to find and more expensive than ice. You gotta change the brake pads, you gotta change the 12v battery and if you gotta replace the drivetrain battery its more expensive than combustion engine replacement.You gotta change the brake fluid and add windshield washer fluid. You gotta add new radiator fluid the upfront cost for ev is more expensive and they car insurance is more expensive. th-cam.com/video/vPGascEXUac/w-d-xo.html Tesla Drive Motor Unit Transmission Fluid Change.
@@mattwill63 The frequency of those maintenance items you mentioned for the most part are far greater on an ICE vehicle than on an EV with some needing to be done 10 times on ICE for every 1 time on an EV. The exceptions are wiper blades, washer fluid, cabin air filter and 12 volt batteries which last the same amount of time plus you left out washing, waxing and interior cleaning. Brakes last a lot longer due to regen and your more likely to be servicing them to lube the caliper guides than to replace the pads which will usually be when you flush the brake fluid which will be about half as often as on an ICE vehicle. Tires only wear out faster if you drive it like you stole it and are constantly driving with a heavy foot chirping the tires at every start and stopping short every time as you race between stoplights. I've driven an EV for the past decade and the OEM tires that were rated for 40,000 miles lasted about 40,000 miles and the first 12 volt battery lasted 5 years as did the second which I've just replaced and since it doesn't have to start an ICE engine its one of the most economical sizes of 12 volt batteries available.
EV insurance is being artificially inflated by both the insurance companies and repair shops who are going by the same mentality as the RV and Marine industry where they will double, quadruple and then some the prices just because it says RV or Marine however that is starting to equalize and those costs are coming down especially now that some of the EV manufacturers are offering their own insurance at reduced rates where the Law of the Land will allow for it which of course Insurance Company Lobbyists are campaigning to prevent.
The only maintenance over the past decade I've had to do that required a dealership was an AC refrigerant leak which they fixed at no charge despite the warranty being long expired. The local AC shops wanted over $1,200 for that repair which turned out to be a 30 minute job to flush the system, replace 2 easily accessible o-rings and recharge with new refrigerant. Local AC shop inflated the cost of the repair just because it was an EV and not due to how complex the repair was or due to rare and expensive parts as the o-ring were common sizes used in automotive systems and nothing special and no specialty tools were required with the only specialty item being the refrigerant specifically for electric AC compressors which costs about 50% more than standard R134A.
Most people will wear out their EV before the battery fails and even then it still has value to Utility companies. If it fails before 5 to 7 years are up then its free and even if the traction battery fails after that you can for less get a factory refurbished one for substantially less than a new one. A new OEM engine costs more than a new OEM battery when comparing at even half the equivalent power rating to an EV. A low powered 302 OEM engine from Ford for example will cost you over $10,000 plus be more expensive to install than a $6,000 EV battery while a 500 hp OEM Ford engine can cost you over $15,000 and in either case they won't be complete and will require intake manifolds and a lot of other items to be assembled and calibrated to them. Now of course Bargain Basement junk yard rebuilt engines will cost less but those aren't the same as getting a OEM replacement battery or an OEM refurbished one.
Best!
I bought my wife a Ford Bronco this past August I then bought a Tesla Model Y for myself a month later. Ford has hounded me if the Bronco is ready for maintenance already. Not a peep from Tesla. Tesla tire rotation at 5k miles.
Thank you Sandy, appreciate your video and knowledge.
Great to have Sandy talking!
Jordan is a great speaker
Well said Sandy! Thank you
The comments on dealers are interesting. In our area (near TO Canada, actually in Oakville the home of the Ford plant) there is a pretty significant dealership that sells primarily EVs. The now have Teslas, Polestar, and do a fair volume of used EVs. They are also doing e motorcycles and offer specialized service focusing on the needs of EVs, like snow tires etc which are a critical need in our climate. Several other independents are doing similar things, but not many mainline dealers.
Great interview Jordan!!
Congrats on getting your Cybertruck Mr Munro!
😮🥹😔
Great content as usual. Was hoping Sandy would mention Cory, missed him dearly. Hope they parted in good terms.
He probably couldn't take the BS seriously, still having morals and seeing Sandy make a fool of himself.
Cory was very uncomfortable around Sandy..It wouldn’t have surprised me if cory reached out to other EV start ups or was offered a lot of money by Lucid..
Lucid is the Duesenberg of our generation. Beautiful, but short lived.
Will be interesting to see where Cory goes..
@@user-li2wx7mv1p linked in says he’s in Palo Alto…
Agree with most of what Sandy says except the union stuff: simple fact is, the heads of the big automakers AREN'T making proportionally more value than they were 30 years ago but they ARE being paid far, far, far more. Simply not sustainable or forgivable.
What's that got to do with his assertions about the Union issues though?
Sandy being an Elon Musk fan boy and always overly praising Tesla plus his view of Unions really makes me question the reliability/objectiveness of the content on this channel
The boards would argue that that's just what CEOs make now, and they'd have a point: it's an America problem, not a car industry problem.
@@jcall412
Sandy "overly praises" Tesla because they earn that praise.
Unions are often necessary. Without worker organization some companies treat employees badly. But it does look like the UAW might be killing their golden goose. For their OEMs to survive they will have to go through a very difficult period during which they won't be making meaningful profits from their EVs while suffering dwindling profits from slowing ICEV sales.
Are 'Big Three' union workers taking the money and running? Perhaps. But where do they work five to ten years from now when those OEMs have died? I do not see any EV manufacturing setting up shop around Detroit. They are more likely to open in states with 'right to work' legislation which means no unions. Will the Detroit UAW workers want to move to where the new jobs will be found?
@@bobwallace9753 has Tesla earned the praise or is it being a fan boy?
Tesla has done some amazing things but Sandy never puts into context when Tesla misses their own product deadline or when Tesla products are actually average compared to OEMs (cyber truck vs the Lightening or Model 3 vs Ioniq 5 or Tesla semi vs Daimler). He also does not explain the downsides to some of the things Tesla is doing and why maybe OEMs are not (gigapress).
Just in this video for instance Sandy is fawning over the Steer by Wire system in the CyberTruck and never mentions this tech has been used by OEMs going back to 2009 at least AND there are current EVs using it by OEMs. It is not new or unique to Tesla but yet he makes it seem Tesla is just that much more advance because they are using it.
As to your Union point, people have used the trope "unions kill the company" for as long as workers have tried to organize and form Unions.
The Big 3 will not die or cease to exist,
since the UAW contract, all the non UAW automakers have raised their worker compensation to meet or be near the new UAW contract, so are these automakers going to go bankrupt too?
You do not see EV manufacturing setting up shop around Detroit?
GM and Ford both announced plans to build a battery plant in Michigan (GM pushed their factory back to 2025). Further, there is a battery recycling plant being built in Michigan. That is before we get into states like Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana who also have plans to build battery factories and upgrade additional auto assembly lines to assist in the EV transition.
If I could insert hyperlinks I would so you can see where I got this info from.
Super excited for the Cybertruck tear down videos.
The Cyber truck is a piece of crap they just showed a video of the wheels falling off😅😅😅😅😅😅
Get real, tyres last shorter and are more expensive for EVs because of the larger weight and torque for EVs. Coolant flush is a must for EVs too because they have a liquid cooling system.
You don’t own a Tesla. Enjoy your Sour Grape Nuts cereal🥣
It depends HOW you drive, you can have a lot of torque and just don't use it and you can destroy tyres in one day with Fiat Multipla if you drive like a maniac.
What are you a ICE dealership you can’t stop progress
They gel so well together and Jordan is the next Sandy at Munro IMO
Can't wait! A CT with a Munro wrap! If a plain CT draws crowds, imagine the effect of a Munro one driven by the man his-self!
Sandy is the best in the West! The influence of his team is by far the most useful for the EV Industry worldwide. Chinese EV automakers definitely know who Munro is and the Japanese automakers have to get off their old horse!
No hes not!
If you go from 12 V to 48 volts and you reduce the wire and terminal sizes by 75% You will have all the same problems as soon as you have some corrosion and lose terminals.. Go to 48 volts and reduce wiring and terminals by only 50% so you get some gains..
Very small wires are tiny and frail and they break .. My 1968 FWD Truck has mostly 16 GA wiring .. it's just too light to hold up .
Also you may need a higher quality thicker more flexible insulation .
Sandy, thanks for all you do!!!!!
Thank You. Munro.
Me personally. A regular pu, is all I really need.
I loaded everything you could imagine on my 1985 Toyota PU. 90 mph everywhere I went
329k miles 1 clutch,1 head gasket.
In regards to the lack of sales for electric vehicles for Ford. I disagree that it has anything to do with dealerships, not getting service money out of it. Reason being, I am looking for an electric vehicle, but what has caused me to reconsider is the cost to ensure that vehicle. Has an example if I buy a $20,000 Honda the insurance on it is roughly $1300 per year if I buy a $20,000 Tesla the cost is 3600 per year. We’ve reached a point, where as much as I would like an electric vehicle, the running cost of that vehicle is now equal or greater than a standard regular commuting vehicle
It seems like, in the rush to follow Sandy's mantra of reducing assembly costs, car companies have forgotten all the work that was done in the 90s and 00s to make cars as easy and cheap as possible to repair after minor crashes. Big chassis castings are cool but you need crush space around them to stop your car being written off by a crash that doesn't even deploy the airbags.
Have you asked State Farm about their rates? Tesla owners say State Farm beats even Tesla Insurance. My revivifier swears by SF - in Charlottesville VA, near IIHS!
🤔? okay, so... I've been driving a SATURN ION for twenty years. It's at 384700 today. First Clutch replaced at 255,000 miles.
Okay, so it's not new anymore... It's got character 😜. I paid it off in 2009. Insurance is basic minimum at this point = $40 a month covers My 1987 Jeep Comanche (purchased new also) & My SATURN.
I have an electric Toro mower that I like, but I'm not sold on The idea of the expense of any Vehicle that's so expensive AND too much like a Smart Phone.
I dislike the idea of so much computerized _______... I grew up helping My Father do the Car maintenance. Seems like current day 🌎 isn't taught the basics of "maintenance".
The 87 Jeep is basically a "work truck".... Still has three of the original fuel injectors. I've never changed the power steering fluid. 😜 The transmission is Peugeot... And has been great. The cooling system design SUCKS. The 4.0 straight six Motor tows more than the standard full size Ford or Chevy truck of the same year, is WHY I bought the Jeep. It's a AMC built. ($11,500, 1987.) The starter lasted 1987-2016, Lifetime part = I just had to change it again. It's literally 2 bolts & a couple wires.
The SATURN ION is by far the most dependable vehicle I've had so far. Auxiliary fan has been like every 4 years, but the AC still runs COLD. 😁
Neoprene seats in the SATURN are super comfy & have held up really well. 🤣 I can put an 8' ladder in the SATURN and shut the trunk.
I would totally buy another SATURN ION (Chevy Cobalt 2.2 motor) but _______ killed the Company. 😝
BTW - I learned to PRORATE TIRES. In 20 years I've NEVER had a set of tires that went the miles advertised. The most resent 90,000 mile set was potatoe skins by 31,000 miles. Discount Tire prorated $75ea towards the next set. (They don't like it, but They'll do it.)
I make a point to find a Mechanic that I can WATCH, that I can talk directly with... I don't hand My Vehicle over to Strangers. Same thing with My Horse. 🤣🐎
I wouldn't currently drive My old Jeep in Austin, but I still drive the SATURN everywhere. SATURN goes 95 up hwy45, if I need to, but not enough torque to Race Anyone. Still gets 34mpg.
SATURN has electronic power steering... I like that, one less "pump" to think about.
SATURN'S computer QUIT just before 80,000 miles, Thank God for warranty. ❤
New Vehicles are nice to look at... But I'm having fun avoiding the expenses & watching My odometer talk to Me. 😜
Plus, I really ENJOY driving a Manual Transmission. ❤❤❤
Progressive insurance for my 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV is $1000 a year.
@@KammeOnice story, man 😜 looks like you like your cars that you own 🤩 that’s what’s important 😋 drove nearly 70k miles on my EV till tire replacement 🤩🤩 charging costed me a whopping $0 because my work offers charging. Try getting gasoline for free you’ll get hunted down by the police 😏 I drive 1500 miles a month. Never giving up my EV 😜😜
What about power failure, no manual steering. How about manual emergency brakes that can be released or activated manually in emergencies such as getting off a road without power?
Excellent analysis and opinions, thx a lot folks!👍
Love that Sandy liked the Tesla seats so much he tore them out and put wheels on them! lol What a great idea!
That was a very nice video with great info. It is a really good format. Thx.
Oh - Can't wait for the CT being torn apart!
Really enjoy Sandys talks. He makes me laugh a lot!
Thank you guys for the excellent interview 👏🏾👍🏾😘
No. Evie's do not save on tires. They are typically 1,000 lb heavier than a comparable iced car. That does not do well for tire mileage
I am installing the new Challenger in Windsor assembly right now. Stellantis is planning 5 models for WAP.
My friend works at Reno gigafactory. He said there are robots already. Could not give real specifics though
Thanks 4 video!
I'd like to see some analysis on the Semi as much as you can short of taking it apart for now. Are they making their frames in house or outsourcing?
@ 34 , so true, everything you buy is MIC, all my cordless powertools are American branded , like Milwaukee ,and it is Made in China, even my Dewalt tools are "Assembled in Mexico, from Globally sourced parts". These are top quality tools.With the exception of Tesla in the automotive world we have simply not innovative enough and cant think outside of the box, and not competitive Today the EU countries are trying to stop the Chinese invation by starting an investigation if the Chinese are dumping BEVs.
Depending on the needs of the buyer and what they are willing to pay China produces tools from poor to high quality with the latter being very competitive with the best German, Swiss and Japanese products. Probably won’t see these tools at Home Depot or Lowe’s but they exist.
@@davidrink1291Even some of the German brand of Hilti are MIC and are very expensive, and I much doubt if they outperform my Milwaukee Fuel line of cordless tools.
13:01 48V phantom power for condenser microphones since the mid 60's 👍🏼
And Telephone industry has been using 48V for 40+ years.
GM did say they are re-fitting the Bolt with the ultium platform. My guess, they do a basic body re-design as well and re-introduce it.
Fantastic piece of entertainment. Thanks.
I would have liked to hear Sandy's opinion on Hertz experience with EVs. They are basically bailing on EVs after a lot of symbiotic narketing with Tesla when they announced they were purchasing a large fleet. They're claiming that maintenance on them was very expensive, and resell value crashed over the 2 years they held the cars. Said the company basically lost their shirts and are going back to ice vehicles. I think they really probably got stuck in the middle of a still maturing industry and got slammed with all the downsides. Just checked and Hertz has a lot of EVs for sale now at decent prices, but theyre pretty close to what a new tesla is with the tax credits.
That's just the problem, you can't sell a 3 year old car with 50, 80K miles for a little less than you paid for it. The other problem is the rental outfits, who were clueless about customer experiences with an EV. And they rented out cars with way more zip than anybody could handle, and wondered why the tires were shot.
Right when hertz started selling the Model 3’s, there were many for $15k-$20k. Those sold fast.
@@aussie2uGA Checked Hertz sales. They have 2022 Teslas with around 40k miles for $28k for a base Model 3 up to $37k for a LR Model Y. Not bad except you can get a new one for close to that with rebates.
@@stevematthews4489 Correct, the cheap ones sold quickly or they pulled an Amazon and raised the prices now. Last week people were posting screen shots of them between $15-20k.
Car hire companies took large parcels of cars especially over produced lower specifications at huge discounts & then could at minimum breakeven on their resale price. Tesla has no need to give out massive discounts to anyone.
Super discussion! Do you think the recent slump in non Tesla EV sales is an ‘Osborne effect’ of folks waiting for access to the Tesla charging network?
Likely not. Lots of factors - but a big one is the lack of profitably on most EVs. Great way to cut costs is to make fewer EVs, but then you never get to volume production that becomes very profitable. Another factor is dealers who hate EVs because the lack of expensive maintenance they benefit from.
@@tesla_tap The dealer will talk you out of it, if he has any at all to sell. Also, high finance rates and confusion about the rebates, and the new models coming out, with lower prices and better specs from more OEMs..
It would certainly be a big consideration if someone asked me about buying an EV this year -- especially given the Level 2 difference between 240 and 277V.
Jordon is a very sharp guy, really enjoy his analysis of Tesla parts and process
Speaking pf dealerships, I've been to two different Toyota dealerships lately for maintenance on my old Rav4 and even older Prius and was given the hard sell on outrageous lists of "required " maintenance. Like I'm going to spend thousands of dollars on old cars that are driven 1-2 thousand miles a year to go to the grocery store and other local errands! Oil change only please!
After you guys tear down the CT, it would make a really interesting speculation episodes, to use the learnings from the CT and 2024 Model 3 , to forecast what cost is possible right now, for the "Model 2" future budget model.
- Front and rear castings
- 800v HV & 48v LV Systems
- FSD Hardware 4
- Determination of stamped vs S.S. Body paneling cost
Etc.
Most likely its the unboxed manufacturing using optimus plus 4680 A-grade fully realised (CT using B-grade 4680) to really make at $10-15k shift.
Plastic panels with pyrolysed coffee biochar composite?
There is a next-gen Bolt EUV in development now. It will be built at the GM Fairfax, Kansas plant for the 2025 model year, and will be using LFP batteries for lower cost. It sounds like they are pretty far along and may be previewing it sometime early/mid 2024.
A growing concern in Europe and now recently in China is the issue of these EVs constantly recording video with transmission back to the manufacturer.
The concern is the video recording of sensitive areas, such as military bases or areas deemed to be a national security risk if recorded.
The U.S. Government gets concerned when Chinese foreign nationals are taking photos and videos of our sensation areas. Imagine what the U.S. government will think of a Chinese EV continuously recording and sending dating back to the CCP?
Tesla now has restrictions in China as does Chinese EVs in Europe. I guess there could be a software fix but you know what they say "trust, but, verify" how does that work?
We know governments are super paranoid these days.
So happy you finally get your truck. WOOHOO!
Those who can afford the high prices have bought cars. The rest of us wait until competition brings the prices down or we die, whichever is first
As far as I know, Canoo was the first to do steer-by-wire on a consumer EV
You need to sell to consumers to be a consumer EV
Good interview 👍 Thank you!
Sandy Munro
Especially like your style of thinking / engineering disciplines / marketing scales.
Thanks again for your hopeful future video.
Very good video. One thing that I think Munro said that was wrong is that even though EVs in general have less maintenance, the tires actually need to be replaced way sooner than ICE cars due to the weight of the vehicle.
Fully-loaded pickups weigh a hell of a lot too, and many SUV's are bloated behemoths. I think it's not so much the weight, as the fact that EV's accelerate very fast. If the driver has a heavy right foot, tyre wear is increased. The same is true of ICE cars, regardless of weight, but it's a convenient FUD meme employed by anti-EV journalists...similar to the ones about EV car fires, and EV's and driving in the rain. lol
This is only in theory because if I compare my Kia EV6 AWD with the nearest ICE which here is e.g. Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrofoglio Verde with somewhat more power but less torque that it’s about the same weight. Translated to your theory that means no better results in tyres use. We measured that on Anneau du Rhin in summer 2022 with a tyre manufacturer.
I've heard mixed reports. Some EV drivers report using up the tires a bit quicker, some report that they last about the same. It seems to depend on how quickly you accelerate.
If you stay in chill/eco mode, you might not see extra tire wear. But then, your car will be more like that ICE car that you don't miss.
I would have thought an EV’s weight would reduce the tire’s tread life but after owning two EVs in the family and driving over 145,000 miles combined, I see that is not the case. These tires last as long as tires on my previous ICE vehicles. They are more expensive though.
Depends on the tyres
I'm more and more concerned with manufacturers working to restrict owner access to basic data like OBD information. Additionally the efforts to vertically integrate all aspects of parts supply appear to be an attempt to control and maximize service revenue by monopolizing parts access and making simple repair procedures unnecessarily complicated. For example, there are a number of reports about suspension component failure on Teslas. What incentive does a manufacturer have to proactively replace components with internally known faults before the vehicle goes out of warranty? If auto manufacturers are allowed to lock down OBD data and make components unserviceable, the consumer won't have a choice...
What a great interview!!!!!!
As for range anxiety, when I took my California vacation 2 years ago we put on over a thousand miles on more than one day, so at least a a few of us have real life range anxiety, especially if you live where there aren't chargers available. Like in rural western Canada.
48 volts only reduces weight, not electrical losses, unless you opt to keep the weight and go for less IR drop. Or you go for a bit of both, only a bit of each. But You have to trade that against adding duplicated/triplicated electrical actuators (redundancy=security), and hopefully removing hydraulics. Or is a hydraulic system the third level of redundancy they talk about?
With 48v you can have electro-hydrolic actuators or pure electric actuators that are the equal of hydraulic actuators with no hoses.
@@jackdbur Tesla have stated the steer by wire has 3 levels of redundancy, and having three electrical levels is not as secure as adding a different technology for one level. I am an electronic engineer BTW.
Would love to see the video for the robot that he talked about.
Thank you!
Franchise dealerships will have to change their business model to remove a large part of the service side. Sales can basically be showroom and online order entry - worthwhile and valuable. Delivery prep is also a valuable service. These are services that all the OEMs need - even Tesla. Tesla just does it 'in house'. There is a reasonable profit to be made delivering these services. The predatory element is removed, which seems to be hard for people to accept.
Sandy may be aware of some other consideration, but it seems likely assuming the same power loss efficiency of the wiring is the objective that wire diameter would drop to 50% not 25%. Area would drop to 25%.
Yep; probably a misstatement.
Sandy mentioned appliance mfg Haier. I would LOVE to know more about them. (I love my Haier fridge.) The revolution in home appliances and HVAC is equally important (for decarbonization, resilience). Stuff like 120v induction stovetops w/ built-in batteries and heat pumps. What's Munro & Assoc's take? Can American mfg compete with China, South Korea, and others?
Amazing!
GREAT INTERVIEW skills on-display, from both you guys! Jordan asked the right questions - those that “inquiring minds”want to know, and Sandy, more than anybody, knows the NOW market, and speaks truth. SO many mistakes from the Legacies, as they pretended ICE would just keep rolling along . . .”whistling through the graveyard”. New Bolt owner, and amazed that Chevy stopped their ONLY EV Line that was selling. These are amazing little cars; the gaps are even, the fit and finish really shine, and with a Level-2 charger in the garage, no daily need for DCFC. VERY inexpensive to run. Get one if you can. 😉
Wasn't there a problem with the battery catching fire spontaneously on some Bolts? Or did they physically recall them all? (I don't remember Biden or the legacy media mentioning it, though 😏)
Great info 😊 cant wait for Cybertruck teardown
You guys get an A+ in Chair Comfort.
23:45 Tires dont actually last longer on an EV, it's quite the opposite
That depends how much torque you like to use.
Akio Toyoda is still very much involved in management.Toyota just recommited to ICE , today it was one of the top topics in Autoline Daily , and has " Race inspired Driver focused Instrumation" , all marketing speak.
There is a view that as EV % increases, cost of gasoline will decline, maintaining a robust ICE market.
Great content and shiny shoes too!
Wait was that last quarter including hybrids like you always see touted or actually more full BEV’s?
I wouldn’t count hybrids.
Did they make chairs from removed Tesla seats? :)
We did.
I relate to Sandy's comments about Ford. I worked there for five years after I graduated as an ME in 1965. I left when I realized that the next promotion to a supervisor would be just as unrewarding and my position had been.
Having trouble getting telegram. Not ignoring you.