Why THE ORVILLE is BETTER than STAR TREK DISCOVERY
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2017
- Of the two space shows that came out this fall, many Star Trek fans are more excited about the Orville than the JJ Abrams/Breaking Bad style prequel Star Trek Discovery. I certainly feel the Orville takes me back to the days of Picard, Data and co on the bridge.
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STD has no passion. Orville is a love letter to Star Trek fans
I think it is less the "passion", it is more like they don't understand anymore what made Star Trek so appealing. Aside from painting a future in which humanity was able to overcome its lesser instincts and having a great sense of humor, it also constantly challenged the status quo. STD for all its "grittiness" isn't challenging anything. But Orville does, most obviously by having a character which has all those toxic conservatives ideas, but turned against what real live conservatices consider "normal".
Star Trek Discovery was made because a company wanted to sell more Star Trek
The Orville was made because a writer wanted to write Star Trek
You make an excellent point there.
One is loving craft, one is real estate.
This is quite literally the best andm ost straight forward way of putting it
Yeah I'm sure that FOX don't care at all about money 😂
Good point. But also Start Trek Discovery is still a really good made movies. On my list 2018-2019 is in the top list.
The Orville just got renewed for season 3!
Evan Berger Sweetness
Thanks to Hulu
Evan Berger when will it air
@@Ducks-are-cool1 looking like late 2020
and moved to hulu. Also McFarlan went to NBC for $200 mil.
STD is a scifi show that just uses Star Trek in the title. The Orville is a Star Trek show that can't
I'd say that is a pretty damn accurate description of Orville.
Haha! Nailed it.
Really the abbreviation is STD? That's too perfect.
Orville simulator has a Moclan sex lagoon soo......win over STD?
I completely Agree.
Also, it seeems that the Creaters of STD and Picard both didn't research every aspect of the older Shows.
"The next Genertion": Ancroids shouldn't be slaves, kept as a Workforce without rights; Data doesn't need sleep.
Picard: "Good Morning Plastic-People!", literrally taking a Group out of a Storage-Area like in Storage-Wars.
The Orville is more Star Trek than Star Trek discovery is Star Trek.
STD is the Disney Star Wars of Star Trek
Here here (raises glass in salute)
Amen to that!
I've been a Trekkie all my life, but The Orville is obviously better. Gene died so long ago. The Orville is fresh and Seth's "Likeability" is through the roof.
People absolutely hate seth and I think its ridiculous. Hes extremely talented and yea I guess family guy has some controversial things in it but it's a cartoon and people get way to butthurt way too easy these days.
@@noozy2111 I think he did a lot of comedy stuff, I don't know why people point to Family Guy like its his only thing he has ever done. I'm not entirely sure but I think you did the TV show Community however don't quote me on that, I will have to double-check.
@@noozy2111 people who hate him with a passion are usually those who are jealous of his talent and success they lack in their own life. Let them hate as he laughs his way to the bank.
@@williamburnett3660 Dan Harmon did Community.
Star tek is still better
Plus, “The Orville” has many past “Star Trek” actors doing guest spots on their show.
Or main spots, Kassidy Yates/Clare Finn.
Writers also
Also 2 episodes Directed by Jonathan Frakes
Don't forget Brannon Braga, Jon Favreau, and Robert Duncan McNeill.
I found Star Trek discovery to be grim and humourless. I loved the Orville. It’s witty with likeable characters and has the excellent stories along with great chemistry with the cast. The Orville is definitely the winner.
So basically if you're a fan of Star Trek watch The Orville and if you're not a fan of Star Trek, still go watch The Orville.
Yup, time space paradox. Only happens in Star Trek.
Ya I love the Orville, but I have tried to watch all the Star Trek series and hated all the episodes I've watched. I also love Discovery, because it has the updated Star Trek JJ Abrams feel. Also I am a huge Stargate fan just thought I would throw that out there.
Pearson James stargate was awesome
But Star Wars is the superior Franchise
"But Star Wars is the superior Franchise" - Why?
The Orville's structure and style reminds me of M*A*S*H.
Star Trek really can't hold the monopoly on space explorers visiting the universe, having adventures, battling bad guys and monsters and learning moral lessons. That's been going on since the Greek myths and legends. The Orville just returns to the same influences that Star Trek wears heavily on it's sleeve.
I thought the same thing and I love it that TNG and Mash are so closely aligned, I have them on my laptop and watch them constantly, also Voyager, but not as much as the aforementioned, smash hits and loved for a reason. Clueless and stupid executives can take the Discovery and shove it where the sun don't shine.
The Orville actually got me into Star Trek, so I also love it for that. At least STD looks cool, so you can just skip to any space battles it’ll have
Star Trek: Orville all the way
Hear hear!
The Orville was not what I expected. I thought it would be a comedy and parody of Star Trek. It turned out to be a Star-Trekish show with Family Guy Style humor sprinkled here and there. So it turned out better than I thought it would be.
I call it Trek in the REAL WORLD, like as if you took where we are as a society and just advanced the tech to Trek level.
But here's the thing, this is nothing new, remember when Seth did those Star Wars parodys? It's the same overall feel except more blatant about the source material.
@@557deadpool I DO remember those Family Guy Star Wars parody episodes...and OMG THEY WERE SOOOO GOOD! 😍
I was never a huge fan of Family Guy but those plus the "Road To..." episodes were AMAZING! 😍😍😍😍
Yeah, I love how The Orville felt really silly at the start, but the tone shifted towards the end of the first season and the humour wasn't taking center stage anymore. The Orville, at the end of the first season, was just a slightly funnier TNG, which I'm totally cool with.
I agree, but The Orville does not have Family Guy humour, and I'm glad it doesn't
It's refreshing to hear someone say that Voyager was good. I loved it.
Me too!
So did I, although I think DS9 was my favorite Trek...of course, also a huge fan of Babylon 5. I'm lovin' The Oroville.
Voyager was good, i cant complain. nothing to complain about Voyager.
I have only seen TNG, DS9 and VOY, so my opinion is limited, but DS9 is my least favourite of the series, and TNG my favourite. I quite enjoy Voyager. I find it sad how many people hate the series. I think Voyager ended the worst, though, having Seven and Chakotay end up together, because that made no sense whatsoever. There is no reason for anyone to like Chakotay, let alone Seven _love_ him. Then again, none of the Star Trek shows did relationships well
@@anonymousaccordionist3326 Would you say they end up together? I mean there's some episodes where she's simulating him in the holodeck, and they do end up together in the alternative "endgame" future, but did they continue that relationship past the holodeck episode? It's been too long and I can't remember.
When you said TNG had humor, you shoulda showed where Picard called Barclay, Broccoli. Hahaha
Heck yeah, Kate Mulgrew was excellent as Captain Janeway.
I still wish for her to come back at some point.
too bad Voyager was such a terrible show and they destroyed her character in the end.
Kate Mulgrew was an excellent strong female character and has always been good in all her roles with very little sex appeal manipulation used. However, she was bothered by the over sexualized 7 of 9 character that dominated the screen by her obvious feminine physical statute and tight costume. She felt 7 of 9's sexuality took away from the storyline and other characters development. She's partially right, but "Voyager's 7of9's" youthful audience of males enjoyed the eye candy. "Everybody Dance Now"!
She always had this 80 year old in a 40 year old body vibe to her.... especially when she gasps and groans
We needed a fresh, positive show that took place in Trek's future, not its past again. Instead, we got Discovery. Hopefully, The Orville will be around for a long time.
What I liked about the original Star Trek series was that there were episodes where the Klingons and Starfleet were obviously analogies for NATO and the Soviet Union, which were in a cold war at the time. And yet the series would be surprisingly mature in how it presented them. The best example was when Kirk and a Klingon officer were both on a world of what they thought was a primitive species, and both wanted to convince the locals to join their faction.
But then it was revealed that the natives were pretty much on the level of Q and the leader of them told Kirk and the Klingon that while they may be enemies now, in the future they would be staunch allies, and this conflict now would be a thing of the distant past in the time to come. That's what I liked about it, it kept a feeling of there being less Black and White in the world and more just shades of Gray trying to do their best to make it through life. Now its all just finger pointing and everyone getting pissed about everything.
Errand of Mercy is one of my favourite Original Series episodes, mostly because I love John Colicos as Kor who took such delight chewing that scenery. But you are correct, TOS tackled many adult social aspects that back then no other show would touch with a ten foot barge pole, but couching it in sci-fi allowed them to get away with it.
Meanwhile I will predict the way that STD will go. Michael Burnham will continue to use her feelings over facts and protocol (this coming from someone raised by Vulcans, yeah right) to win the day. She will not for one second, consider the larger picture, instead lashing out at any Klingons she sees thinking they are automatically evil. This will continue until she triumphs over the evil Klingons and refute any talk of reasoning for peace. All the while she is doing this she will be portrayed as a hero and the series will end with them saying she is the pinnacle of humanity and all those who oppose her are wrong. They will continue to show us her doing these stupid and irrational things that would get her entire crew killed and still come up on top because everyone says she's amazing. This character is the exact opposite of what the Federation is supposed to represent. I suppose they could surprise us and make her change her views and become less extreme but I doubt that. This show is trying to pander to the SJW crowd and according to SJWs, she is the morally righteous one.
I too am a fan of the original series & I was surprised at the start of this video that no mention of it was given. Especially considering that McFarlan was a HUGE fan of that series and, according to other utube videos I've seen, was what he was hoping to model the Orville after.
What as great about the original was that while they did deal with social & political issues, they did not cram a narrative (or point of view) or agenda down the viewers throats. OST never hit you over the head with a lead pipe (which apparently is what Discovery is doing), the just hit you with a nerf bat.
And you recall that TOS was cancelled after two seasons. You see, THAT's what happens when you are too far ahead of your time. TOS presented a diverse bridge crew, and they had episodes where they parodied the idiocy of racism using aliens that were both black and white colored, but hated each based on which side (left or right) was black and which side was white. Racist fans flipped out over Commander Cisco on DS9, and then over Janeway and Tuvok on Voyager. This nerd-rage over Michael Burnham is just 2017's version of the same crap that previous series' garnered when they debuted non-White male leads. Only now, we have the internet.
What nerd rage are you referring to about Burnham exactly? The only misgivings I have seen in comments is that the character is just so unlikable ... how is that nerd related?
I just watched Star Trek Discovery, do I need to get tested?
I love the Orville. However, one of my main problems with the show, is that since Alara is from a planet with super high gravity, she should look like she is walking on the Moon, but she doesn't!
The Orville deserves the name Star Trek more, than Discovery does... I'm a big fan of TNG, and also Voyager... And MacFarlane absolutely transported the feeling, the art and the intellectual and moral stories perfectly on his show... I think Roddenberry would love it... And me as a Trekkie dislike Discovery, it doesn't feel quite right, sorry CBS :P all my best wishes and love to MacFarlane and his team working on Orville :D
i'm a big fan of TNG, DS9 and Voyager and hate discovery it just feels wrong and boring (barring fight scenes JJ got that ok but the story's are terrible) i wish they just move on to the post nemesis/ Voyager era with star trek Destiny books seemed good but with the current writers i don't think they could pull it off and would ruin the concept
He forgot to mention that the biggest reason The Orville works is that Seth McFarlane is, himself, a Trekkie. He even guest starred in the occasional episode of Enterprise.
Absolutely. if you want to reboot a series, you better have the hardest fans at the helm. not some suit and tie who occasionally asks hardcore fans if they are steering the ship right.
Seth was on Enterprise???? I did not know this!
Yeah, he was in episode 15 of season 4 as an engineer
@@funkymunky7935 Yeah... after seeing this, I went off and memory-alphaed him. Very cool! Makes Orville even cooler!
There are actors who starred in episodes of Star Trek shows are now in episodes of the Orville!
I couldn't agree more with this video and it's perspective on Orville vs STD. STD is hard, if not impossible to watch, much less enjoy. Orville carries the torch that is ST.
Oh my goodness, I hadn't really seen many clips of STD before but it's even _worse_ than I imagined it would be! And, wow, I had no idea Brannon Braga was involved in The Orville! That's fantastic! :) This is a great video! 11:18 - YES!
Not sure if you know this, but Seth MacFarlane is a massive Trekkie himself. He actually requested (and was granted) a cameo on Enterprise as one of Trip's engineers.
toadofsteel which is why I expect the Orville is a better show. It is done with heart. While STD is an attempt from CBS to get people to not use Netflix and Hulu.
How obvious is that.
Well that's only for Yanks they still put it on Netflix outside of the US
You do know Netlix payed for most of the cost to produce STD its how the rest of the world watches it its only on CBS in the states
You notice how you aren't as careful or deliberate when spending OTHER PEOPLE'S money? CBS could learn about that
Crazy how the critics hate the Orville. I really like the show. Good on Fox for gauging fan reaction and not snobby critics.
Ah critics are all full of shit. I've never read a review from them and thought, "what an unpretentious, intelligent, honest, unbiased professional". You know those crappy high school assignments where you needed to reach 1000 words? That's what critics are. People trying to impress teachers with big words and word counts.
Crazy how the "veterans of Trek" criticise ST Disco. I really like the show. Couldn't watch the Orville beyond the first half of season one. The cheesy sitcom jokes of the first episode got me thinking it's a sort of "Friends" in space mixed with "Lexx", but the egg between Bortus' ass-cheeks scene in episode two convinced me this show is nothing but a parody, the bad, "Scream" kind. And it went progressivelly un-watchable from there... I don't know what you Orville fans are smoking, but I'm pretty sure it was grown right outside the Chernobyl reactor...
@@FlorinC1984
Tbh, I haven't watched ST Delta, yet (because I didn't want another ST: Nemesis, where I give it the benefit of the doubt and then get burned for it). Also, I'm still mad at CBS for what they did to Stage-9.
Anyway, you're only hearing from people who watched it. There's probably a huge number of people like me who haven't, and remain silent about it.
The Orville isn't bash trumpy enough to get them to give it their blessing.... and I couldn't be happier. Seem like anything the critics, at least my local ones, like I can't stand. This seems to be following that pattern.
@@FlorinC1984 Apparently you're smoking whatever the SJWs tell you to smoke. Discovery sucks. Get over it.
Good review. I feel the same way and this helped me understand why I like the Orville over STD. It helps that MacFarlane is a fan of the classic Star Trek series. The Orville is sometimes awkward and shallow but when it gets it right, it's really good. Characters are also very likeable and relatable. Almost like people in your own office.
Seth McFarland is a genius and I want to see him do more live action directing, he does it very well
I just started watching episodes of The Orville on Hulu and I have been pleasantly surprised, but in a way that I wasn’t expecting. I had thought The Orville would be a lot like watching the movie Galaxy Quest, but it isn’t. While the show does have some of Seth MacFarlane’s trademark humor, the show is often as serious as any good Star Trek episode.
I was expecting exactly the same!
Same here!
I like the tone of The Orville. It's like STNG except instead of the crew acting like academics/scientists/theater geeks, they act like working class men and women. It informs the show's humor and characterizations as well as allowing for the show to shift from silly to dramatic while still feeling relatable.
I've been absolutely BLOWN AWAY by some episodes of The Orville... to the point where my jaw literally dropped.
It is SOOOO good.
I think a lot of us expected a parody and were not expecting an actual Sci Fi show with some humor sprinkled in. I have always liked his humor, and watched the first episode to see that, but I stayed with Orville because it is so much like classic Trek (TNG, Voyager, DS9). I am not sure if I will go and watch the second season of STD. I am not sure why I stuck with it in the 1st season. Maybe just the old watching a train wreck phenomenon? :P
Fortune cookies aren’t Chinese. Fortune cookies don’t really exist in China. Fortune cookies were invented in San Francisco at around World War II.
+Kenny Louis yes that is true. Americans just think they are Chinese
Generation Tech thus, the fortune cookie is not pandering to a Chinese audience (because most actual Chinese people, not ethnic Chinese Americans) don’t know what the heck a fortune cookie is.
Your argument saying that STD is some kind of globalist pandering to the Chinese (because “the own half of Hollywood,” your words) is a fallacy.
Generation Tech And neither is Michelle Yeoh...
Generation Tech maybe a few decades ago, but now it is pretty well known in the US they were not Chinese, and that seasonings are frequently in Chinese/Asian restaurants in the US were shifted as well
I am boycotting Chinese food until they put Authentic Chinese Michelle Yeoh in it
NCC-1701-D Enterprise
Captain: Jean-Luc Picard
First Officer: Data
Second Officer: William Riker
Science Officer: Spock
Helmsmen: Tom Paris
Engineers: Geordi La Forge, Montgomery Scott, 7 of 9
Doctor: Beverly Crusher
Moral Officers: Porthos and Spot
Janitor: Michael Burnham
Porthos for the win
What about worf at tactical
lol
Oh I want to see Burnham attempting to usurp Picard, and just how much shit she'd be in.
Needs the Doctor from Voyager with Crusher
I thought Captain Georgiou was a wonderful captain on the show during the first few episodes. She had a lot of potential, and died too soon. Maybe she could be on The Orville, as the captain of another ship.
Also, Sun Tzu was quoted in STTNG by Cmdr. Riker in the episode "The Last Outpost."
This should have been titled why the orville is classic st and why std is not.
You broke down exactly why The Orville is better than STD (hehe). The Orville brings back that classic Star Trek feel and it's a thrill to watch. I'm excited every week when it comes on. It nicely mixes comedy and powerfully emotional/intense situations. That is the reason The Orville is better than STD. But the powers that be will ignore this reality and say people don't like STD because of misogyny and sexism, bigotry and racism. All buzz words to guilt ppl into thinking they are those things. No, it's that Star Trek fails to follow its own criteria to make a good show. The Orville doesn't and that's why it kicks ass!
The Swamp Cleaner Star Trek discovery is pushing liberal agenda.
I feel that Discovery is just horribly written. Pure and Simple.
So you like a knock off imitation?
Mr. C Earth Science Videos
No, we like to be entertained and excited by our escapist fantasy, not preached to and guilt tripped. Star Trek was supposed to be the ultimate escapist fantasy by showing us a hopeful, cheery future where all the strife, struggle and divisions of today give way to a near-utopic society. Orville fits that description pretty damn well, but STD is so depressing and, at times, painful to watch that it's almost not even worth it.
Shows like Breaking Bad and The Walking Dead can get away with that kind of grit because they were meant to be explorations of the worst parts of humanity, but Star Trek was always supposed to be the opposite; even during the darkest parts of the Dominion War on Deep Space Nine or during the most desperate stretches of Voyager's journeys through Borg and Hirogen space, those shows somehow managed to hold onto that optimism with the message, "These are dark times, but they'll eventually pass and things are going to get better." STD, on the other hand, is just like, "Times are tough, they'll always be tough so either toughen up or get eaten alive, pansy." There's no sign of the optimism and hope that defined the previous 5 Trek series, but somehow Orville has that in spades.
Dargonhuman your comment is beautiful.
Been a Star Trek fan for over 40 years and JJ Aberhams movies and Discovery are in my opinion an abomination of Gene Roddenberry's creation . The orvile is a genuine attempt to create a positive idea of the future andi am of no doubt that Gene would approve. Long live The Orville!!!!
It's almost impressive how Discovery manages to do basically everything wrong - it's almost like they set out to split the difference between modern, more realistic hard SF & classic Trek, with the goal of finding the worst possible middle ground between the two. As more serious/realistic hard sci-fi, Discovery doesn't even hold up to B5, MUCH less contemporary stuff - The Expanse makes STD look like a Saturday morning cartoon.
Also to be honest I much preferred Enterprise as a prequel to Discovery
Orvilles Humour is something you might need to get used to and not everyone appreciates it, and its more over the top than it ever was in TNG BUT the episode stories, the character decelopment - beautiful writing, definitely feels like Star Trek should. You could take some episodes from Orvile and shoot them with the TNG cast - you wouldnt feel a difference
Your talking to A life long Star Trek fan. The Orville is 10 times better then Star Trek Discovery! No questions about it..
I am here because I am searching for other shows like the orville while I await the 3rd season. The very thing that made me quit on star trek before the first episode finished is something I didn't find in the orville. The orville just doesn't have dull moments. All moments are either funny, sad, or intense. MAN I LOVE THE BATTLE FOR EARTH. It's a shame that we still have to wait quite a while for season 3.
the captain of the discovery killed his crew by self destructing his ship and he was the only survivor and they gave him another ship??
WTF this guy should have been commanding a mop and bucket
I look forward to The Orville continuing for the next 5 decades!
Lol, I was being sarcastic
At least for 5 more years
Five more years of awesome TV goodness from Seth McFarlane!
Darren Hankin
I think more than 2 seasons would be too much, because Seth McFarlanes shows start so suck pretty fast.
The Orville. End of debate.
This was surprisingly accurate, and I say that only because I thought a YT Star Trek channel might be afraid to put it out there..so bravo for doing so.
I agree completely with this video. I've re-watched each StarTrek over and over again because of the mostly lighthearted nature of the show and the blend of tech, drama, comedy, action and good character progression. STD feels exactly like any other generic grunge melodrama that is currently overcrowding TV now days. It's so focused on drama that it left the story behind and the characters are atrocious. It is also emotionally monotonous. By the end of an episode I'm all worn out of that single tense feeling if gives you the whole time. One of the main things it lacks is the teamwork that all previous star treks had in ample amounts. Also what they did to the Klingons was a sin and they should be ashamed.
I'm thrilled that the Orville is here. I get super excited every time there is a new episode.
I find myself constantly drawn back to the Stargate: Atlantis vs. Stargate: Universe comparison. The issues are very similar in re: the look and feel of the shows. If TNG, DS9, and VOY are the equivalent of SGA, then DIS/STD = SGU.
SGU is like SGA's dark mirror universe sibling in that they start with a similar premise (Ancient ship, lost out in the vastness of space, beyond easy reach of Earth, with a crew now All Alone to fend for themselves), but the producers took everything people enjoyed about SGA and upended and turned it inside out. You wound up with a crew of The Wrong People who couldn't or wouldn't cooperate willingly, who had no clue whatsoever about the ship or its tech, who connived and schemed at every opportunity... ugh. When you find yourself rooting for the monster du jour to get a move-on and pick off the crew, you know something's gone off the rails.
Someone, somewhere apparently thought the way to win new viewers to the Trek franchise was to offer up a magpie's trove of bright and sparkly eye candy, while simultaneously offering up all the bickering, back-stabbing, wig-snatching, and conniving of The Real Housewives of wherever-the-hell.
Which, come to think of it, makes The Orville's use of a tape library of that sort of train-wreck TV to woo over the zookeeper aliens all the more appropriate.
Bert Hayling
Yes! Perfect comparison! In all honesty, I never really looked forward to a new episode of SGU, I still faithfully watched because I always hoped that it was going to get better and go back to the fun roots SG1 and SGA set down, but it never did, and sitting through another 40-some minutes was tedious and exhausting at best.
I've gotten to the age that if I start thinking, "Oh, a new episode is out... Ugh, well, let's get this over with," or "I really don't have the energy to get through this, maybe tomorrow after I get some sleep," instead of "Hey, new episode! I don't care that I have to get to bed in 15 minutes, I'm watching this right now!" then I just drop the show right then and there. I don't have the time, patience or energy to drag my mind through that kind of slog every week, especially when I know there are far better, more enjoyable things out there that I could be focusing my attention on.
John Capolino std is just another SJW projectile vomiting their bullshit
It is wonderful to see a battle with good acting like in DS9, enemies that are interesting, and you are so into the action, feeling come out with the injuries of be loved characters like the lose of Jadzia Dax or in TNG with Natasha Yar, It draws you into the episode.
I try to avoid STD's at all cost.
It appears almost half the viewers who watched the first Episode of the Orville, avoided the rest of the series as if it was an STD!
You can get STDs by watching STD. All of them.
Shame your mom didn't.
I'm a fan of star trek, but not interested in STD's
STD is for the weakest minds. Pretty colors and explosions with zero intellect.
I agree with everything stated. This is how I always viewed it. Orville is by far my fav this decade
Best line: "But, alas, the only humourous part of Star Trek Discovery is the abbreviation of its name, S T...D."
I vote for "The Orville..."
Great review, and exposé!
100% orville!
sgpch1983 screw paramount trying to recreate and ruin Trek.. Orville is the new Trek. Accidentally made an amazing trek show and Seth M. Needs to keep at it! He has a real shot into nerd history. 100% Orville
I was actually considering watching ST:D, but after this I'm probably not going to bother. The constant implausible arguing is a deal breaker. I watched the first season of The Orville as it came out, watched all the Star Trek movies and series, plus Stargate and BSG. I still watch reruns of the various Star Trek series multiple times a week on the broadcast H&I station.
Everything Star Trek after the original series has sucked. Next Gen was communist propaganda, Deep Space 9 was an attempt to kill Babylon 5, Voyager just sucked, and Enterprise was a disaster for the franchise. Discovery looks terrible with a dark poorly lit bridge, unlikable characters, and fucking ugly ship design! The only good Trek film was Wrath Of Khan and they ruined it with the Genesis device and Khan being stupid. The other films were terrible and uninteresting, and yes, every film after Generations is Picard having a Rift fantasy, he did not get out and everyone died.
I'm gonna have to watch this 😂
I agree I saw oriville season 1 online, it was really good and in tie in with lots of social issue of the days (e.g. Christian discriminating gays and how many Christian groups are returning to that F***ed up Christianity of the dark ages or stupid juries keep putting innocent people in prison for rape and murders, with cops that cannot be bother to do their job, but just charge some random guy as the killer or rapists, base on some BS argument and ride people's hating killer and rapists emotions, to make sure he end up in prison) and the show is really funny too, I know it might seem odd for military officers to be funny, but all that screaming, yelling and verbal abuse generally come during the training stage, to get you mentally ready for the job.
However, as for Discovery, I do need to point out, the quoting of "Arts of War" from China, till date The Art of War is still consider the most perfect book in term of military theory, despite it is written well over 2000 years ago, no book in military strategy that came after, have managed to surpassed it, which is why, even after the 20th century western army officer training take their strategy training also straight out of this book, consider this single book surpass every single western military strategy theory been developed within the last 2000 years and further military strategy theory since the 20th century are all build upon the work of Sun Tzu, so, the quoting of Sun Tzu Arts of War, is very normal. But there do seem to be too much Chinese reference, within Discovery that I agree, they should have stop at the Chinese Captain and Sun Tzu Arts of War and end at that.
As for female Captain, I like both the Captain of Voyager and Discovery, despite they are both female, they also give a bit of a grand mother feel. They all give you the impression of been a strong elderly woman, men better see women to be an authority figure, when they are old enough to be your mum or grand mother, but to take order from a woman your same age, tend to be a bit harder. Both the Captain of Voyager and Discovery give us the feel that they are elderly woman, probably in their 50s or 60s, which for young men in their 20s and 30s, that is about our mothers' current age. We got no problem seen them as authority figure or a mentor. But the 1st officer, is a young woman and that is just weird, as in...nobody want to take order from a chick. In addition despite star fleet are suppose to be explorer, it doesn't change the fact they are a military organization, or at least para-military, it is not exactly a civilian explorer ship and military is a male dominated industry, it is unlikely both the Captain and first officer are woman and women who are able to rise to a rank of such respect in an industry like this, is a major tough cookie, they are not weaklings, they are usually way more menly then most men, so it is unlikely for a woman that can become the first officer on a star ship to act like a spoil child. (It is not even likely for a man that can raise to the rank of first officer to act like a spoil child)
Probably because the Orville crew isn't trying to figure out which restroom to use
i felt a lot of stargate vibes from the Orville, loved every second
What gets me, is STD is supposed to be set in the same timeline as TOS, TNG, DS9, etc...only just several years before TOS...yet none the of the ships, interiors nor uniforms come even close to matching...Axanar did it a million times better, yet managed to have more modern production values.
You do realize that the look of the show is nothing more than a symbol or icon for storytelling.
The little wooden block 'data tapes' are a storytelling device. As are the technicolor gel lights and garish costumes. They are just symbols and icons, and not the reason for the show existing
@@GScottChaosnaut - No they're not the reason for the show existing. Roddenberry's vision of future society is. And STD doesn't honor that.
Furthermore, since the show so gleefully eschews his vision of the future as well as so many visual cues, then to be consistent, it ought to dump the whole "Star Trek" moniker as well. Don't dump so much of the franchise's familiar elements and then still call itself Star Trek.
This thing is an impostor playing dress-up. But most Trek fans see right through that pathetic disguise.
“STD” 🤣
The reason for the different look is a legal one I think.... the series is owned by a different company the some.of the.others, and so cannot breach the copyright of the original Star Trek, it needs to be different enough to be distinct, in a copyright sense, from the others... its the same reason for the reboot of The recent movie star treks being different in set design, uniforms, etc..... We should be grateful for this, I think. as STD is such a disgraceful exercise in leftist propaganda and painfully obvious virtue signaling... that anything distancing itself from less odious SciFi is a blessing.
@@Supergrover1969 Paramount Pictures is also own by National Amusements, that's a small detail to add in that probably is irrelevant but I am still saying it none the less.
The Orville blows Star Trek Discovery out of the water.
I have never watched an episode of STD and I don't intend to. Instead i'm rewatching Star Trek Continues and The Orville.
Ironic since it was STD that made Paramount draft those "guidelines" which effectively ended Star Trek Continues and other ambitious fan fiction.
The problem with "discovery" it is that it is not really Star Trek it does not have the feel by far. It simply is a brainless action flick with great special effects, and fails to deal with the human soul all together. Orville on the other hand, especially the later episodes simply floored me, for they addressed the human factor in a true Star Trek fashion, Orville feels more Star Trek than "discovery"
As a life-long trek fan, I'm happier to have The Orville exist outside of the Trek franchise, but carrying the torch. As much as I love Star Trek, I'm sick and tired of remakes, reboots, sequels and prequels. They all carry baggage, and they will always suffer from comparison to their predecessors, and they will always be limited by canon in all areas.
A fresh universe with new characters invites a fresh perspective and lets writers work uninhibited by prior canon, as they will be making it up as they go. The Orville/STD comparison shows us that there is a lot of popular support for a bright, optimistic show with likable characters, something that's been missing in Sci-Fi for a while now, and maybe people are a little bit tired of the original gems being rolled out like cash cows with their souls ripped out, like Trek, Star Wars, Alien, Terminator etc.
Agreed. Hollywood needs to realize that sometimes, even usually, a spiritual successor is a better choice than a sequal, prequel, or reboot.
Sure it's harder to advertise, but tell your marketing team to get off their asses and actually do something worth the huge budgets that are given to them.
World building isn't really that hard.
Chelfyn Baxter i think the issues with star wars is the whole franches got killed off, as far as Alien its a bit dull. But I enjoy the picture quality and so forth from Trek
It's how the fans grow up to become producers to make a better StarTrek. You can't stop them it's the Franchise that's too powerful to the fans. When I first watched ST: TOS it looks strange because it was made way before I was born and it looks old even in the 60's. Then TNG looks ok with DS9 and VOY, but then TOS had a Remastered version making the model into CGI, then Enterprise looks good because as a fan of Sci-fi and NASA Enterprise was the Star of StarTrek and how it all began. Because of ST: First Contact nobody knew what happened after the warp ship phoenix and the Vulcans. New characters and crew, missions and space battles was making the franchise of Star Trek great again until JJ. Abrams who was a huge fan and made his own films in his own image gave the fans a shock when it came out. I say "Fuck them Abrams carry on with your work it's StarTrek" he's made 3 movies so far and making the 4th which has been confirmed then later Discovery was aired. Yet another StarTrek series is making the franchise even better than before new uniforms, missions and make-ups for alien species just got a whole lot better. Even I thought there would be a series of the Enterprise B or C or something in between like Starfleet Command or on a Space station like DS9, you got to learn to respect the huge Fandom and the creation of StarTrek BAXTER!
Ironically JJverse feels closer to real Trek than STD at the moment.
Ugh, that's like saying the 2005 Fantastic Four movie was closer to FF than the 2015 Fant4stic movie.
'I loosened it for 'ya.' Had to pause and laugh for a good 30 seconds.
What McFarland has done so well, is he feeling in the gaps of the human side of space travel. I think in my mind, these were the types of conversations, I'll be at not as funny, mind you, that we're happening between scenes in TNG. I love the part when Bortis and Clyden are fighting and everyone on the bridge wants to know if they're fighting again. Of course if you worked with people you would ask questions about someone's fighting with a spouse! And I'm fine that original Trek didn't have time to show those pieces. But this show brings such a great human element to the wonder of space travel! I love it!
the biggest mistake with having michelle yeoh in the first two episodes is that she was a way better captain then the dude on the discovery. she actually has classic trek morals and a genuine personality... and then they kill her off like its nothing. what a shame
First of all the Star Trek universe always represented an optimistic look at the future; STD does not. As the host said, Star Trek always contained humor; STD does not. Star Trek has always been progressive however, STD is "in your face" progressive, which is just annoying. Most of all Orville, like Seth Macfarlane has heart; you can tell the writers and producers love the subject matter and have a deep connection with Science Fiction storytelling; STD creators do not.
So a show that starts with the beginning of the war between the Federation and the Klingon empire, by your logic, can't be dark and gloomy. LOL stupid you think war is optimistic!!!! IDIOT! I've spent a good portion of my childhood in a war - Croatian war for independence.
Huh-what are babbling about?
I think that's where the problem lies: the vision and spirit of Star Trek. The Orville is heavily inspired by TNG and embodies the spirit of discovery and maintaining of the moral ethos of the Federation. Where DSC differs is the same way that DS9 did, but from opposite directions. DS9 questioned how it's possible to maintain the Federation's prime directive of cooperation of hundreds of planets with different cultures and beliefs. Whereas DSC aims and tries to find out how a younger Federation can reach those lofty heights.
I think DSC is definitely the more interesting because of this perspective. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate Orville's bright and upbeat embrace of TNG's qualities. It's just that I think Star Trek is infinitely more interesting if it steps out of its comfort zone.
However, I agree, the execution of season 1 was flawed. DSC season one made a list of decisions that I don't agree. But like DS9, the best thing DSC could have done is to incorporate a serialized plot structure. Episodic structure I feel would eventually be detrimental for a show when material runs dry. Which leads to recycling old plot lines.
What I want to see from DSC S2 is for them to finally make the show an ensemble.
@@FlankerB3 its not just the war its pointless subtitles as he said missing seconds of who is that dude oh yeah its the woman remake of bsg was gloomy end of world and i thought it was great. std is as great as a medical std. a corporal gave us all a description of std when first in the army that was all we needed to stay away from the medical issue before a show took that abbreviation.
Well put, is said that true art represent reality and STD seems to be pushing a point so hard that one can't identify itself with it, it does not seem to fit anywhere in history.
I think the key to the success of The Orville is the fact that the characters are genuinely likeable.
ST:D not so much. Actually, not at all...
@Eric Miret Also a fair point, lol
Feb 2019 and everything you said in this episode has been born out The Orville is still top dog and STD is still something to avoid. 18 months on and still loving the shows.
I am a big Star Trek fan and not impressed with Star Trek Discovery. The Orville does permeate the spirit of Star Trek and I am really enjoying the show.
i am so fucking tired of these "big Star Trek fans" who are saying that Discovery is bad because it does something different. the "spirit" of Star Trek is exploring the wondrous universe that Gene Roddenbury created, there is not set way to explore a universe of literally infinite possibilites, each show TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and now DSC all explore this universe using a different lens, TOS did it through primarily through the Senior staff as did TNG but with more emphasis on side characters and stories. DS9 did it through the lens of a Tactical officer and a Space Station. Voyager did it by exploring a whole new quadrant. Enterprise did by the lens of a pioneer, and now DSC through the view of a single officer, something relatively small in scale compared to other shows - take one character 12 episodes in from any other Star Trek and you will not have the same amount of character development than Burnham in Discovery. And an added not The Orville is a PARODY OF TNG of course it has the same feel to it as previous incarnations of Star Trek. I am very happy with Discovery because it had the BALLS to do something DIFFERENT. this is why old shows like Star Trek can't evolve and bring new fans in, because the "Purist" fans are too impatient to actually analyse what they are watching and form a complex opinion outside of "X is stupid, X character is dumb, X scene doesn't make sense"
times change old man
I refuse to pay for CBS all access, so I never have watched discovery. I love Orville though. I like how the show isn't 100% spoof like say that hulu series Futureman which is really good by the way. There are some funny plot twists and puns but it is still a serious kind of sci-fi show its just not super serious like say Battlestar Galactica.
same!
It's bad because it is dark and moody. ST is supposed to be an escape into the bright and wild future. Also the Orville actually has likeable characters... not a bad idea for a tv show.
The Orville has brought solid humor and great acting. Discovery was released almost 3 months after, giving huge amounts of time for the Orville to simply take its viewers. Discovery will probably last 2-3 seasons and fizzle off, it’s a horrible reboot.
It's not a reboot, It's more of an origin story - with a its on new storylines as well... it's now boldly gone where no Star Trek has gone before into season 5. If you haven't, you should give it another look. It's really very good.
This has aged perfectly
I've just finished Orville and I LOVE it!!! Much, much better than I thought it would be, and it pays homage to classic TNG era Star Trek in a way that's fresh, funny and compelling! I really hope they make more seasons, writers strike withstanding!
As for STD? A mixed bag for sure, but overall I've enjoyed that too! This is NuTrek so best to enjoy it on it's own merits because NuTrek is very different from classic TNG Trek. And to be honest, given the HUGE diversity in Star Trek fans, I honestly don't see any problems in having a complete buffet of differing Star Trek shows! Some fans will prefer TNG Trek, some NuTrek and others, like me, who are happy to consume both!
Surely this world is big enough for all types of shows and fans so no... I won't be reducing these pointless arguments to an overly simplistic black and white situation. I must either like TNG Trek and bash NuTrek... Or like NuTrek and bash TNG Trek... I like 'em both!!! And can't be asked to play irrelevant politics. I either like a show on it's own merits, or I don't! It is THAT simple!
And it would appear that there are MANY fans who also fall into this category... With STD on it's fifth (and final!) season, and Orville being a massive hit in it's own right! And even though the jury is still out, at least for me, on that TNG / NuTrek hybrid Strange New Worlds, given the success of Picard Season 3, there may be hope yet for NuTrek to become much more mature and grounded in TNG era principles, so that perhaps a more happy balance can be attained between the two.
In any case, Orville demonstrates that there is a need for classic TNG Trek and I can only hope that they will get around to making a few more seasons.
I really enjoyed your comparison of these two shows. In any event, I suppose it all boils down to the producers' discretion, but I have to agree with your main supposition, that there is just too much angst and infighting amongst the crew of Discovery. While no ship has a perfect crew, alas, any crew so disposed to fighting with each other simply wouldn't last very long, in a television series, or in reality. Who would possibly want to work in such an atmosphere?
I think Discovery would do well to remember the central theme of the original, one of humanity and positivity, not simply preconceived angst in order to create scenic drama. No matter what difficulties the original sixties crew endured during their many adventures, they usually ended up laughing together, the true antidote to an otherwise unforgiving test of life and death. In my opinion, the entire reason why the original TV series has lasted so long is their reliance on strong interpersonal relationships and important moral issues, with the latest incarnation relying more on special effects, explosions, and violence. When this occurs, an inevitable lack of humanity is lost in the exchange. Welcome to show biz.
P.S. I also admit at harboring some discomfort with such a sudden and dramatic shift of command in the Star Trek universe toward TWO FEMALE PROTAGONISTS. Not that I disagree with female empowerment on any level, but this cast decision was just too transparently obvious for me to easily handle. Oh, well. I'm not the producer, so we'll just have to get used to the idea. Estrogen is thicker than water.
I watched all of STD Season 1 (ugh) but gave up after the recent 3rd episode of Season 2. I just started watching The Orville (Season 1) and already I like it so much better that STD! I know and like the characters so much more and the plots are interesting (and funny). Discovery is simply boring. All that money to make it look cinematic is nothing if the stories and characters are dull. The Orville may not have the same budget but it doesn't need it. It has good writing.
The Orville has a soul, STD is souless and dark
best description I have heard yet.
I guess you could say that STD fell... Into Darkness?
...I'll see myself out
One of the things about Discovery that makes it unwatchable is the camera work. If it's not shakycam, it's dutch angles. And if it's not dutch angles, it's swoopy camera spinning for no good reason. Combine this with the underlit sets, and the propensity to backlight characters so they're lost in a glow of haze, and what you end up with is a barrage of disorienting visual noise. It's not just impossible to follow, it's amateurish. Shots should be chosen because they help tell the story, not just to show off how much money you can waste per second of screentime.
Orville of course.
I haven't seen Discovery yet, but so far I've really enjoyed The Orville.
I like how the Orville crew are real people--not walking libraries or art scholars.
Not sure what Orville you were watching but the one I'm following is made by a raging liberal, stars a raging liberal, and is just as full of liberal ideologies as any Star Trek series. Seth McFarlane *IS* a liberal. Dipshit.
* libraries are not liberals; the fact that you said "dipshit" after ranting about liberals, when no mention of liberals was made (libraries, you know, buildings with books in them), speaks volumes.
shhh, he probably doesn't know what a library
Now lets get along here. No name calling.
Matthew Swanson
He did not use the word "liberal". But you are right in the sense that all Star Trek are "liberal", the problem is that you americans have attached many different meanings to that word that it no longer reflects the original one.
While all the star trek series do advocate for individual freedoms and equality, the STD pushes the new degenerate "liberal" worldview of intersectionality. Which can be summarised in two sentences : "Fuck white males. Decay and destruction are good". So it indeed is still "liberal", which dosn't mean that it is a completely different thing.
Just watched through all of the first season of both. Without a doubt, The Orville wins hands down. Likeable characters, tons of character development, and great story to boot. Discovery on the other hand feels like a hollow storyline that spends entirely too much time to give life to one character.
The season's far too short though! I want to see 26 episode seasons like the old star trek's had, not the 12 episodes The Orville had in season 1 & presumably has again in season 2 going by it's premier date :(
To be honest I only saw a few episodes of STD so my opinions might be a bit biased. But there is the problem. I have been a Star Trek fan in the early 70's and that I didn't make more of an effort to see more of the episodes says something. It doesn't feel "Trek" too dark, no ensemble cast to get to know and love . Orville is Trek in all the right places and new and fresh and clever enough to be around for some time to come.
Could you do an update to this now that there have been a few seasons? Would love to hear your updated views.
I gave STD a chance. I really did. But they lost me in the last half and the last episode was just so awful that I felt really betrayed. Then out of frustration I started watching Orville and my trauma from STD (speaking of whipping my knees under the shower like trauma) got healed.
I love The Orville!
Agree 100% Orville Rules!
Dream Team: Picard as Admiral, Ryker as Commander of a brand new Enterprise, Data as Number 1, 7of9 as Number 2, Security Officer would be Worf for sure, and Vilana as 2nd Security Officer, it would have a new Q in it still testing Ryker, maybe someone like Janeway. Would make an amazing series.
The Orville is superior. It has the spirit of Star Trek.
CBS should rename their show...
“Star Trek: Disaster” 🤣
It (Discovery) made for some great STO game fodder. At least they are making up for it with Picard... almost. I mean, the synth violence and the fear-mongering of the old cliche "AI singularity" thing while ST:TNG had Q as well as far superior in every way beings, including AI mobile emitter holograms (not a thing in Picard) with the one killed Daughter Of Data being a perfect synth on top of a Romulan virtually religious thing... meh... better than Discovery in every way at least.
I agree that Discovery doesn't feel like Star Trek, although i stilled enjoyed it as a space drama with great effects and makeup. It's doing a bit better in season two, i'm hoping as time goes on it finds more or it's Trek roots. In the meantime i'm quite pleased with the Orville capturing the feeling of Star Trek.
I loved the end of season 1 w/ the Terran Empire mirror verse.
I prefer Orville however season 2 of STD is 100x better than season 1.
I completely agree about being sick of prequel shows and remake movies, i too long to see a show based after Voyager.
early 25th century star trek universe
Orville is basically TNG remake with more funny gags :D
I'm a big fan of The Orville, I wasn't sure at first but after realizing how it was just some of the best parts of TNG and the better Seth Macfarlane jokes. They may need to trim them a slightly but I'm guessing they will get better as the season goes.
STD is well... sci fi, and I watch just about everything sci fi... I just have to turn off the part of my brain that says: "This is supposed to be Star Trek. "
That's my feeling on it as well. If STD had just been a sci-fi show in its own universe, without trying to claim it was part of Star Trek, I think it would have gone over MUCH better. But when you call yourself Star Trek, it comes with a lot of expectations and canon from old shows. If you stray from that, you risk making your audience get irritated with you. And that's exactly what's happening. I think most of the fans of the show are people who didn't really watch the old Trek shows.
orwille is cheap fan fiction discovery at least its bold and it fails but it tries
the last time star trek went with a dark almost exclusevly war theme..ds9 and yes ds9 is the single best thing star trek has produced ..including warth of khan
but ds9 didnt make a huge hurah out of having a black captain you just acept that benjamin sisko is so badass hed fit in warhamer 40 k
the orville is Seth MacFarlane big fuck you to whoever owns the street trek franchise now for not allowing him to write a star trek series. set MacFarlane is from my understanding a huge star trek fanboy..... I would love him to have had his hand in writing either a star trek spin off or a revamp of another already established series.
As soon as STD released that cast photo taking a knee to support Kapernick, I knew it was headed into the SJW territory. I've been a lifelong Star Trek fan, and I still haven't seen a single episode of STD.
On the other hand, I've seen every episode of the Orville. It's currently my favorite show.
its funny, i was a fan of voyager, and my wife never liked star trek, weve been binging the orville for days, she absolutely loves it
I was surprised at how much better the Orville is than STD. The Orville doesn't insult your intelligence and waste your time.
Yes! The Orville is written far more smartly than Discovery, and it doesn't beat its audience over the head with its message or morals - I really like how, when there is a moral quandary, Orville presents the pros and cons of both sides, then resolves the main plot conflict but still leaves the moral conflict somewhat open to interpretation so the viewer can make up their own mind, particularly the episodes "About A Girl" and "Krill".
LOL that's all it does!
All Orville does is insult your inteligence lol really
chester olson you mean DIS insults your intelligence, I fixed it for you.
The Man From Krypton Orville insults your intelligence. There I fixed it for you
While I wont go into details, of the two shows I much prefer the Orville.
i always got the felling that the orville writers would often get so into the sci fi drama that they'd forget it was meant to be a comedy so just every now and then drop in a joke or zany moment that took me right out of what was happening at the time
2 yrs after this video was released, it still is spot on. The Orville is a better Star Trek show than ST:D. I was actually expecting Orville to suck. Everytime some ST show needs to use section 31 in an entire plot kind of turns me off. ST is supposed to show how humans have evolved to have higher sense of morals, using section 31 automatically reverses on that point.
I originally didn't intend to binge watch Voyager. But Kate Mulgrew's performance as Red on Orange is the New Black, convinced me to watch Voyager.
Loving the Orville. Can’t wait for Season 2.
God Damn Right Orville is better. Was annoyed that there was no episode this week
I watch Orville for the fun and comedy. I like discovery for the serialized stories and action. Discovery season 2 was better than the 1st
The Orville is on Hulu, which is only a couple dollars if you have Spotify.
critics hate the Orville and love std, yet audiences love the Orville and tend to hate std.
+Z Man yes, this is often the case, I never listen to critics, too far removed from the common man in their opinions
Audiences don't "tend to" hate DSC or hate DSC; DSC haters just wish they did. 😆
+Daniel Montiel Strange. According to Rotten Tomatoes, both "The Orville" and "STD" have about 5000 audience reviews. "Orville" has a critic rating of 18%, but an audience rating of 93%. "STD" has a critic rating of 83%, but an audience rating of 54%. If only a little more than half of the people that really matter (no, not the critics) positively rate your show, you may have an issue. And that's just on Rotten Tomatoes. Most of the other ratings sites are worse.
I would also contend that with the general trend of low to middling positive ratings by the viewing audiences in general, "STD" definitively falls into the "disliked" category. Ergo, the statement of "audiences tend to hate STD" is factually correct, rather than wishful thinking.
In the end, I feel that STD pushed too much, too far, too fast, a mistake that it is definitely not alone in making in many regards these days. General canonical changes, graphical re-designs, as well as fundamental alterations to well-established characters (Sarek) and cultures (Klingons) piled on top of (calling the duck a duck, here) blatant, in-your-face, social agenda-pushing, well, it's just too much. Maybe if they had moderated the tone, revised their characters, and tried to make the general visual designs fit into the established general canonical background, they'd not be facing the backlash the show currently is. Who can say.
In the end, I think everyone can agree that, with regard to "STD", mistakes have been made. Maybe bring in a different writing team for Season Two, tone down the rhetoric (especially from the producers), and have the design team work on smoothing out the canonical differences, and you might salvage it.
it's called a hollywood circle jerk.
I think Critics just have a raging hate-boner for Seth MacFarlane.
I didn't even finish the first episode of Discovery. You can instantly tell it only carries the name Star Trek and does not understand nor believe in the vision. Star Trek is more than a entertaining tv show.. its a way of life to aspire to and a source of exploring and solving problems we haven't even faced yet.
and that exploring won't ever lead to any war scale conflicts?
Season 3 of The Orville is _finally_ going to start airing soon!!
Thank you for making this video. I haven't given the Orville a chance yet but now I'm going to. Keep in mind that star trek Picard is coming out. It'll have to take place after nemesis and Voyager. Hopefully in the correct timeline though.