Orville is criminally under-rated and under-promoted, especially here in the UK where I don't know it was ever shown on TV. Thank goodness for Disney+ carrying it! More people need to see it!
Considering the way LaMarr explains how paradoxes work in The Orville universe, I think there's a strong argument to be made that Malloy and his family continue to exist in an offshoot timeline.
@@kristenkillen he does deserve that, and I hope it would have worked out like how that person said, but there's just as much likelihood that if he stayed, he would have ended all of civilization and possibly destroyed his original reality. Hell, he could have done so just by leaving that hut and interacting with people. I'd do the same thing in his position I'm sure, and I guess it all worked out more or less okay, but god damn he could have done as little as step on a fuckin butterfly and would have ended civilization as a result. That episode made me cry a lot though, extremely good writing, just finished S3. Awesome show. On another hand, WHY STARTREK AND OVRILLE WOKE??? /s. Not like it is based in a post scarcity society that has no need for money, no need for anyone to work just to survive, and no hyper wealthy 1% pulling the strings behind the scenes. Ya know, literally communism. Makes me laugh when I find conservatives say that they loved Star Trek until it went WOKE, as if it hasn't been one of if not THE most progressive show on TV even from the beginning.
I really liked in the time travel episode that at the end Mercer sits down with Malloy and tells him what happened. I think the temptation to just move on and keep the deleted family a secret would have been very tempting.
I do think Klyden's redemption in e10 was a little too easily won. He was vile to his daughter when he left. A verbal apology is nice to have, but I felt like there needed to be more there...a show of actions matching up with words.
But the family wasn’t deleted. They only found Malloy because he sent his SOS after he’d been trapped in the past for six months, but when they retrieve him he’d only been there for one month. Based of the rule of temporal mechanics in The Orville that means that other Malloy is still with his family in his own timeline.
There's arguments for both sides - the timeline is in flux due to temporal contamination, and due to that its reasonable that the Orville may have caused a universal split into different timelines, rather than a simple erasure when rescuing Gordo.
I'm mixed on it. It does create some pacing issues, but at the same time it allows for a lot of little character moments that probably would otherwise be cut for time.
Same here - i never looked at the clock because i twas wondering how long it was going to last, but always was surprised it was over already. Really hoping for season 4 (5, 6, 7) here.
One counterpoint to complaints about Seth MacFarlane as a leading man - this season was far more centered around the rest of the crew than previous seasons. Mercer is involved in everything, sure, but the only plot that really centered around him was the one involving Teleya. Maybe he's not a great leading man, but he's more than competent enough to play part of an ensemble cast, and that's mostly what he's doing now.
I think that They let Klyden off too easy, especially after what he had said to Topa. Bortus and Kelly were just like "Oh, you changed your mind? Well then, all the misogyny and prejudice are OK"
@@frankandstein8618 I don't think they're letting Klyden off easy as he clearly indicates he's willing to put in the hard work to become better. If we don't allow for people to evolve and grow, there's no way we're going to move beyond such attitudes.
I'm not usually a fan of killing off characters as it often seems clunky and forced but I thought Charly's storyline was done really well. We got to know her throughout the season which meant that her death was impactful. It also fit in with the arc of her character really well and felt natural. The person who hates the Kaylon dying to save the Kaylon because she's learned that revenge isn't the answer is a good bit. Much better than Discovery giving Airiam backstory in the episode where she dies or Strange New Worlds going "I'd like to introduce you to Person Who's Going to Die #1 and Person Who's Going to Die #2, aren't they great?"
It was way better than Airiam but I still felt we didn't really spend enough time with Charly before she got killed off. She was annoying in the first half of the season and I was only beginning to warm to her in the second.
The serial numbers filed off! Loved that! I always described The Orville as TNG with fart jokes. Actually this season had fewer fart jokes and was better for it. Unapologetically so.
People saying that The Orville had fart jokes always bothered me, because it painted a false image of what kind of humour the show had in the first season. It was dumb and goofy humour, but it was adult humour such as Ed uncomfortable stating that he gets up several times a night to pee when talking to Bortus about the one time he urinates each year. Calling it a show with fart jokes makes it sound like it was way more low brow than it actually was. I honestly don't think there was ever a single joke centered around a fart.
@@benbaker6360, @Daniel Babineau, agreed this series - especially the latest season is definitely some A Grade science fiction that is to be taken seriously. It is not low brow by any standard.
Literally just finished binging this entire thing like a week ago, video could not have come at a better time. I think, ironically, The Orville made me a bigger Star Trek fan.
I agree about the ending and possible ending of the series. They wrapped thing up nicely so that if they get no more episodes, it had a satisfying ending. But yeah, if they do more like this, SIGN ME UP!!!
A Tale of Two Topas needs a damned Emmy. That was some top tier drama and messaging. Something that might be missed by people who didn’t watch the first season is the reveal in “About a girl” that Klyden also was gender-reassigned by force. His bitter refusal comes across as all the more heartbreaking because of it - he’s trapped by his own values that he was raised with and still had a lot of unresolved issues himself.
Honestly I get the impression "about a girl" was never intended to be a stand alone episode and really just existed as a setup for "a tale of two topas" Personally I the Seth is smart enough to understand the former wouldn't have successfully put out the message that the latter wouldn't have been able to do so well without the setup the proceeded it
Have to hard disagree with the idea that longer episodes are a problem. I enjoyed every second and often lost track of time. Giving characters time to breathe and react only made the show stronger. A stand out example is in the first episode, when Dr. Finn in the simulator, first trying to talk to her son, then having a moment of profound grief on screen play out. They gave Penny Johnson so much to do this season and I was all about it. A shorter runtime though means this moment gets cut or severely reduced, and that would hurt the show significantly. I think the most common response to this would be to cut or reduce the time spent on "ship porn", and the engineers upgrading the ship. To that I say humbug. Those lighter moments are required to pull us away from the death of Issac and show how life goes on when someone dies (necessarily) but also when we cut back to people discussing Issac it shows that moving on isn't forgetting and that what he'd done was major in the lives of his compatriots. It makes the doctor's point in the ending therapy scene (where she says he couldn't account for change and the future) before she has to say anything. This is just one example, but I think all the episodes being longer allowed for these sorts of moments and subtle storytelling to be done throughout season 3. Which elevates the entire thing.
The more Dr Finn the better. I would have liked to spend more time with the children. I thought B.J.Tanner (Marcus) was excellent in the first episode, but got sidelined after that
I like your comments and examples here, but disagree. You don't cut the simulator sequence. You cut the 12 minutes spent introducing the new fighter shuttle. The late season fighter scene could have been done with any ship including a crippled one for maybe even more drama. The only useful storypoint for me was to intro Charly's 4th dimensional visualizing. Its tempting to elaborate on why the fighter intro was a pretty bad scene for other reasons but it would be off topic. What I love about James Cameron is when he inserts a new piece of innovative tech its a critical piece of the story adding 1 technical wow factor 2 important character building and 3 drama later on. Two perfect examples would be "the loader" in Aliens and the rat/liquid oxygen scene in The Abyss. I'll just say some episodes they used the extra minutes really well. Sometimes a lot less well. Feel free to challenge me on any weakness. Its just my opinion. I'm not attached to it.
Agree. I can see how the 45 min time makes the producer focus on making the main plot move along quicker. Seth himself pointed out how the longer time allowed for better character development and more comprehensive plots. I liked TNG very much but I think it lost a lot of characters like Ro Laren and Tasha Yar in the 45 min limit. I can see how that longer time can make a plot plod but overall, I think the Orville made great use of the longer run times.
@@ronaldgray5707 Yes, I do mostly agree that the longer runtime does occasionally make the pacing weird, but whenever I think about what would likely have been cut, I wouldn't want to lose those quieter character moments.
I don’t have a source for it (I read it a while ago) but I believe I read somewhere that the weird, out of place, jokey stuff in Season 1 particularly, were actually at the insistence of the network, and Seth didn’t really want that. That’s why it was reigned back more in S2 and then even more this season. This is much more what he had in mind originally. I actually enjoy (some of) the jokes that Steve puts up with (S1 was a bit overboard). I like the weird star casting, etc. But to Steve’s comment about Seth being not a strong choice for a leading character, I think that’s part of the pastiche. What would happen if this somewhat nobody guy got command of a new ship and that ship stumbled into becoming really important. Then this nobody is somebody and where do we go from here. But again, maybe that’s just because Steve and I have different tastes… and that’s okay.
That's one of the thing I like about it too. The Orville (the ship) is even explicitly a *mid-level* exploratory vessel. This isn't the Enterprise-D, flagship stuff. This is a C- or D-list crew that, through circumstances, now have to play in the big leagues. They're mostly competent, and usually get their shit done, but they are no top-of-the-line. I love the dichotomy.
I like how at the start of the season, when they’re doing the “strategically smart” thing to do, they’re in a strategically bad place; the Kaylon are an existential threat, and then the Krill alliance falls through. When they decide to actually follow their morals and stop making compromises for strategic security, they end up it an objectively better position. It’s their morality that wins over the Kaylon, who are big heavies of the Orville universe. By standing by their ethics they’re in a much more secure place than when when they were making ethical compromises in the name of being strategically smart.
I was pretty torn between Strange New Worlds and Orville, both really great shows...but I gotta give it to Orville, in the end. Honestly, the fact that it's building on 2 previous seasons of getting to know these characters helps a lot, where we're still getting to know SNW's cast (yes, even this version of characters we already know), so that's an advantage, but either way, it feels like Orville is just that much more ready and willing to push the envelope in ways ST just doesn't. The finale, for ex, seemed like it was going the same way as Discovery's first season ending ("Should we throw away our ethics to bomb our enemies' home and save ourselves?"), but not only did Orville actually stay true to the ethics of the show, but it did so with some twists that were really unexpected and entertaining!
One detail I loved in the Kaylon arc is that you learn why the Kaylon have red eyes! I’m contrast to the menace they seem to have when we first meet Kaylon who aren’t Isaac, their start is so innocuous. And it’s a great moment demonstrating implicit biases.
I loved the Kaylon back story and finding out that it was true. In season two, I didn’t realize the entire reason they were doing this was specifically based on fear of being enslaved again. Season one made it seem like Kaylons just hated other biological life for being inferior. The murdering our builders because we were slaves almost seemed like an excuse- like they became smarter than their builders, knocked them off, and then used the slavery thing as an excuse. But showing their back story and how it happened and how they literally are just afraid of being enslaved again. That’s it. They do feel superior to biological life, but that’s not the reason why they are exterminating it. The way they asked if they were going to enslave them again when they met after showing off the weapon tugged at my heart strings, not going to lie. And when they assumed Issac had been enslaved because he was getting married- just shows that they really are terrified of it. Even though the last one was played for laughs, it still reinforces that this is their main concern. And when they spoke about how sadistic their builders became and related the disgust masters feel for their slaves for being “helpless” even though they are the ones making them helpless was a great comparison and so true. I love the philosophical ethical dilemmas and the science in this show. I really hope we get a season 4. Even without Kelly Greyson- who said she would not return for a 4th season- I’d still like to see where their lives are headed in 2422.
@@HyenaPaintReally? I saw that one coming very early on even before they found the graveyards...which just cemented it to me...I still enjoyed the episode and seeing how it played out...I think it's a good warning for when we do finally manage to create sentient ai
A quick side note, the episode with Maloy going back in time would be a great place to set some sort of origin for a mirror universe episode in the future
This show is smart. I hope for a fourth season. Grossly underrated and under appreciated. Klyden returning was an emotional gut punch, excellent writing.
I totally agree with the comparison to SNW. I think both are fantastic for any Star Trek fan. And if you watch them back to back it's kinda reminiscent of watching TOS straight into TNG.
The writing on Orville S3 was way superior to all of ST Discovery. I actually got a tear or two watching “A Tale of Topas.” Star Trek writers please take note.
Thanks, Steve. Excellent video, but I disagree about the length of the episodes. I think they made very good use of the opportunity to take the exact amount of time they needed to tell each story, instead of having to chop it off at sixty minutes. Also, I'm glad they wrapped up loose ends in case this is the last season, but I hope it's not.
Trans woman here. I LOVED the Topa episodes this season. Frankly, I think it redeemed the season one episode (which I thought was brave despite it's problems). A couple moments that Steve didn't have time to mention that made me smile: Dr. Finn IMMEDIATELY offering to resign her commission to be allowed to provide gender affirming care to Topa and Issac also beating up Klyden literally standing between the trans child and the bigot. This is how you ally!! It's such a good trans rights episode that I don't mind the flaws Steve mentioned. Just one trans woman's opinion but there it is.
The Moclans, and Bortus specifically, reminds me of the Krogans from the Mass Effect Series... Their weaponry design as well... I hope for a Season 4, I want to see Ed reunite with his daughter... The season 3 was so well written that I plan to rewatch this entire (current) Trilogy in a few weeks...
One of the funny things about the Dolly thing is that, it's so deeply American. I mean, Dolly is loved all over the world, but none of us would ever think to make her the philosopher poet inspiration for an alien gender revolution The thing I find noteworthy about that isn't just that it's so American, but rather that it's so Star Trek. Star Trek tried to be pan cultural in it's ideals, but it never even pretended to hide the cultural context of it's production. The stories were set in a post national setting, hundreds of years in the future, but the stories were written by and for Americans, leaning on American folklore and mythology and shared cultural context, and the rest of us all either had to get on board, or find something else. I guess an old phone booth for a time travel space ship would do the trick if you're British. Us Aussies kind of got Farscape, a little. But I think for the most part, international Trekkies take the Americanness of Trek with a gentle eyeroll, but mostly affection. And there's something about the Dolly plot that is so evocative of that feeling. A story that flat out doesn't make sense from the perspective of the show, but makes all the sense in the world from the perspective of it's production. Trek wears it's production on it's sleeves, and that's part of it's charm, and it's genuinely disarming to feel Orville carrying that on while shows like Discovery tended to steer away from it and make it a bit more modern and realist It's like, Discovery is modern, it largely tries to conceal the artifice and ground the show within some kind of reality Lower Decks is post modern, it tries to dig up and re-expose the artifice, whether or not it's effective in that endeavor Classic Trek is, along that continuum, kind of, pre-modern (I know that's already a term that means something else, but hopefully you get what I'm saying) It never tried to expose it's artifice, but it also didn't worry all that much about hiding it. By actual pre modern standards it was plenty modern, and even a little post modern, but it is, at the very least, quaint, it's perspective of a galaxy that is so large and so far removed from our present context, but still seems weirdly interested in the American Civil War, a conflict that even for most people to day, just isn't something any of us think about most of the time, except for the fact that Americans keep weirdly bringing up. And, you know, like I said, it gets a gentle eye roll, but I have an affection for it and I'm glad to see that quality being kept alive in Orville Kermit was another nice touch
One thing about "Domino" that I liked was Kaylon Primary literally speechless and unable to process Charly's sacrifice. This walking super computer is struck dumb at what happened. And it moves him.
The only thing I think you overlooked, and maybe it was for video length, is Klyden's story and character arc overall, and how that relates to gay and trans people. If anything he is an allegory, especially due to his age in the show, of the closeted, self hating trans/gay person, who has been told his whole life that he was an aberration, and what was done to him was right, to make him normal, and fit into society's mold. I like that they allow him to begin to come to terms with who he is, and what was done to him through Topa's arc, with the beginning of that growth being shown at the dinner scene which capped the episode. If there is a season 4 I hope they explore his navigation through his PTSD around this issue.
Agreed. I’m always surprised that no one mentions that Klyden was also born female in their analyses of these episodes, and that his reaction must carry some baggage connected to that.
The third season of the Orville was amazing! I liked the first two seasons, but I LOVED the third season. The third season had a great story, several good character arcs, and several engaging episodes. Personally, I liked the longer episodes, and I think that the season is great to stream as a season. I want several more seasons of this show.
This season of The Orville was one of the most socially relevant and thought-provoking sci-fi content in current TV, which Star Trek, at its best, has historically been. Was it a perfect season? Of course not. But it did what good sci-fi should do: comment on present-day issues by using future or outlandish settings to decontextualize these issues from the nuance of the present and hone in on their essence. Plus, The Orville did so in what I found to be an entertaining and engaging way, while leaving some room for character development. This season reminded me of some of the best episodes of TOS and TNG.
I'm so happy there are TH-camrs like Steve and Jessie who review Trek and other Sci-fi with compassion and fairness. So many sci-fi channels have gone the way of misogyny, homophobia and transphobia.
When watching A Tale of Two Toppers. To me it was also a tale inspired also by intersex children that have had medical intervention by parents to help their child in the only way they know how to be able to survive amongst social norms. And then when a child gets older and does not accept the decision and needs to decide for themself. Then having to face the difficult consequences and changes involved that can become very closely related to the struggles and difficulties as those who are trans. As a trans person myself. That is what I saw in this story. I am not intersex by birth so I can not speak for such who are. So I do not claim to do so. I have my own story. But that is what I personally saw in the plot of this episode. And a very well written social commentary in a sci-fi story to tell.
I like that Seth MacFarlane doesn't fit the mold for the standard starship captain. I recognize that he's not a standard fit, and I'm more than fine with it.
Yeah, Ed Mercer's character is a perfect fit for what the Orville is, a crew that's become a large somewhat dysfunctional family, with Mercer as kind of the father figure -- bumbling but earnest, and determined to try to do the right thing at all costs.
It is kind of his character that he doesn’t fit, that he isn’t a “captain,” that he’s unfit to lead. In seasons 1 and 2 he doubts himself constantly, but shows that when it counts, he’s all a leader needs to be and more. S3 this isn’t mentioned as much, mostly since it’s not centered around Mercer nearly as much.
I loved season 3, however, I wanted a few more episodes focusing on exploration and working together to solve the problem in addition to the social commentary episodes. It felt like only one episode really did this “Shadow Realms”. I guess this is what happens when shows are only 10 episodes long. No more fun filler episodes.
16:47 , now that was a nice Dr. Strangelove moment wasn't it? "I'm sorry too, Primary. I'm very sorry. Alright! You're sorrier than I am! But I am sorry as well. I am as sorry as you are, Primary. Don't say that you are more sorry than I am, because I am capable of being just as sorry as you are. So we're both sorry, alright? Alright."
Thanks for the great review and discussion. Personally I really enjoyed this season of Orville. I already liked the first 2 seasons but this season just clicked. There were a few episodes and parts that truly felt like I was watching TNG back in the day.
I've enjoyed most episodes of all the seasons of the Orville, but this season was extremely good and I am happy they were able to make longer episodes on Hulu. I think it gives them the freedom to tell the story how they want to tell it instead of being confined to a certain amount of time. I guess they could make the longer stories into 2 part episodes, but it might just work better as one 60 minute episode than two 45 minute episodes.
Gotta say - I had not expected to see that level of social commentary coming from Seth McFarlane. Also, I disagree that the episodes were too long. We treated it as a mini-movie set in the universe rather than episodic television, and didn't find any episodes dragged on. They were as long as they needed to be, and I'm not sure what could have been cut from any given episode while still making the level of commentary they did. (they could have told the same stories, but would they have landed as well without the exploration of side issues?)
As happened with Star Trek, conservatives have watched The Orville and found ways to interpret the progressive messaging as conservative messaging. A lot of them though that Topa and her story was supposed to be representative of parents forcing their children to transition, which is a myth that conservatives are conviced is a common and widespread occurrence.
I would say the ship looks like the TNG Enterprise from the inside, but from the outside it's definitely directly drawing from Galaxy Quest. Same goes for the uniforms. And yea, technically Galaxy Quest took it from trek, so..
Totally agree. After watching the first couple first season episodes and being mostly disappointed with the mostly forced humor, I jumped to Season Three ... and was totally delighted. There were really NO wrong notes, and a LOT of strong elements, which you pointed out very well. The one thing you didn't mention is Scott Grimes' skill as a singer, which is pressed into service several times, most poignantly at the end of S3E10, with his take on James Taylor's "Secret of Life." That song has been a sentimental favorite of mine ever since I heard Sweet Baby James perform it at Blossom Music Center (via LaserDisc, admittedly!), and it and other musical choices which come out of _The Orville_ strike me as not just music for music's sake but part of the storytelling as well. A damned good thing, from where I sit.
I always thought that the story of the Mocclans was more about the intersection of Trans AND intersex issues. We have a lot of overlap with each other, and share similar struggles, sex reassignment at birth is one of the struggles of the Intersex community.
I don't see The Orville as TNG. It more like DS9 If it was TNG, Topah would still be a boy, Charlie would still be alive, Moclas would still be in the union and so would the Krill, and they would never have created a superweapon They did get the tradition of a crew member finding out that had a suprise kid and then completely ignoring them when they werent needed for the plot The saddest moment in the whole season was Malloy enthusiastically saying Mercer did the right thing in Twice in a Lifetime... and Mercer just giving a look of utter guilt for what he did
One small moment really stuck out to me as it was the best, sweetest answer I've ever seen to the dilemma in fiction of one lover having a much longer lifespan, when Isaac promises to look after all of Claire's descendants.
My only problem with the Malloy episode is, why would the crew even approach malloy untill they knew for a fact they couldn't get any more fuel for more time jumps. Untill they interact with him it's Schrodingers timeline. They could have avoided the guilt of having to erase the family
TNG often chickened out of taking a position. They would defer to local law or cultural norms, instead of taking a moral stand. One of the many great things about Strange New Worlds is that it isn't afraid to do that. The Orville season 3 is a lot better in this respect too.
Agreed. When Gordon is sent back to the past, you see several instances of him fly backwards. Not only that, but the distress all The Orville received was sent by Gordon AFTER he had been there for six months. When The Orville finally goes back to 2015 to get him, he had been there only four months, yet, he had to have been there after six months in order to send the distress call in the first place. There has to be at least one other Gordon still stuck in the past.
The "comedy" in season 1 and 2 always had me suspicious that MacFarlane only managed to get the show funded by promising "Star Trek with knob gags", as so often it's out of place to everything else going on. Season 3 feels like what it was always meant to be.
Agree. It seemed like he always wanted to get a real Star Trek series done but felt it would be easier to get support if it was at least to a degree a comedy. I like comedy but the series got better the more serious it became.
Uh guys. He went to CBS to do an actual Star Trek show, and was rebuffed. Then he went to FOX who said he could do it as long as he made it a comedy. It's no wonder the comedy was slowly bled out of the show. It's what he wanted.
It seemed obvious to me that his heart was more with the sci-fi aspect than the comedy aspect, but it's the latter that can get him meetings, so I understand why he had to go that way at the start. I think there's also the fact that they can skirt a lot closer to Star Trek if they can lean on the parody aspect.
Interestingly, the story dealing with Topa's gender can easily be viewed from the opposite perspective. Although we all know the political leanings of the show's creators, the story could also be seen as the triumph of biology over artificially induced gender changes. Topa was born female and no amount of surgery could change this. I believe there was an actual case of a baby boy, in the late 50's, who was raised as a girl after his penis had been accidentally cut off during a circumcision gone wrong. Although raised as a girl his internal psychology was always male and he was relieved to find out the truth and eventually had reconstructive surgery and got on with his life. At any rate, a well written show and the best “Trek” since TNG. Side note, any beings from such a high gravity planet as Xelaya would be built like fire plugs, not the slender security officers who have served aboard the Orville.
It never ceases to amaze me how different opinions on art can be. Personally I loved S1, though S2 was ok at best, and S3 took itself far too seriously and was the weakest by far. I'm glad the Orville is out there, especially to bridge the gap of no good trek during the dark days of discovery and picard. Fortunately SNW and especially lower decks fill the gap nicely that Orville has left in my heart.
I think you have overlooked something very important about Kleiden's part in "a tale of two Topas". Kleiden himself was born a female and had the reasignment surgery as an infant, then learned about it as an adolescent, while having a similar identity issue as Topa is having in the episode. Kleiden was inmerse in his homeworld's culture and conformed,
One moment from Scott Grimes is how resolute, steadfast, and does NOT care because he's happy. After "rescued" he immediately says they did the right thing. It's so sad he was ok forgetting that Malloy. He was trained and knew his actions had reprocussions. Imagine finding your perfect life tho. Multiverse in such a subtle way. The 90 minute thing...ehhh. The fantasy world from the quick time aliens...that was long.
Isaac appearing as his human self at his own wedding gave me a bit of a pause. It's like, he's not really accepted as "himself." Though it was a season two episode, I was really super pissed about the first high gravity security lady getting a disability parable story that the only way she was accepted by her family was by "saving the day." Yeah, much more entertained without stupid joke distraction in season three. I like humor and science fiction humor can be great. Red Dwarf is one of my favs. A bit too "locker room" for me in the Orville.
I read somewhere that Seth McFarlane did NOT want to include the kind of crass humor (dog licking its balls, etc) in the first season, but was FORCED to by Fox. "You're Seth McFarlane, people only watch your shows for the crass comedy, put it in there!" or something. Not sure how far that went, and if Season 3 represents something closer to Seth's "true/original vision" for the show. I'm looking forward to checking it out... someday. Not getting a Hulu sub though. Already have Prime, CBS, and HBO, can't justify another service at the same time.
I disagree about the runtime. It allows for all of those side character arcs you mentioned. In fact, I commented to my wife that I appreciated that being on streaming allows episodes to run to a natural length, rather than things being rushed.
Sorry you got so harassed about this, but thank you for releasing this video. I had been wondering about your thoughts on this show (and season, in particular), but didn't want to push you for them - I am always happy to see the TH-camrs I follow make videos on whatever they wish to talk about, as it's usually interesting. No arguments about the general points on the show or that season 3 is the best so far, though it certainly isn't without its flaws - and, oddly enough, I feel like the increased budget/looser restrictions are at the heart of some of them. As you mention, I don't think there are any *bad* episodes, but there are some that are not as good as the others (honestly, I think the finale might be the worst just by virtue of being...just fine). Funny enough, I wrote this paragraph early in watching this video, so I didn't know you would address this. One consistent problem with many of the episodes is that they feel overstuffed or stretched: since they're no longer restricted to standard broadcast length, the shows run up to or even beyond an hour in length, often including superfluous bits meant to show off their far higher FX budget (the premiere's drone fight could've been trimmed a bit, for example) and sometimes including an extra act that tends to jettison the episode's previous allegory/focus in favour of a twist to justify another 20 minutes. It creates somewhat disjointed and muddled episodes, the best of which are able to navigate that well while most just kind of...ride through on the good will of what was there and the somewhat disconnected new parts it pushes in. It's not enough that I'd consider anything bad because of it or hold it against the creators (I can't blame them for showing off and taking advantage of their greater allowances), but it did bother me a bit. Oh, and I guess some of the multi-episode storylines feel a little rushed (Klyden leaves, has a change of heart, returns, immediately returns to normal life in the span of only a few episodes), but that's definitely a symptom of how few episodes there are in the season, and likely fears they wouldn't get renewed. And I am all for the idea of a Muppet crossover - it might be reasonable but a little too far for something like Star Trek (Q or whatever could facilitate it easily, but it would seem to push in an odd meta manner) but seems perfect for the niche The Orville was able to carve, just beyond that line.
Orville is criminally under-rated and under-promoted, especially here in the UK where I don't know it was ever shown on TV. Thank goodness for Disney+ carrying it!
More people need to see it!
I think the first two seasons were on Sky TV.
season 3 was produced by the streaming service hulu so it wasn't on tv, anywhere
There was something so heartbreaking about seeing past Malloy blissfully ignorant about the family he had in his alternate future.
That episode broke me.
💯
Considering the way LaMarr explains how paradoxes work in The Orville universe, I think there's a strong argument to be made that Malloy and his family continue to exist in an offshoot timeline.
@@Tim85-y2q I'm gonna go with your theory. Gordon deserved to be happy with his crush from the past.
@@kristenkillen he does deserve that, and I hope it would have worked out like how that person said, but there's just as much likelihood that if he stayed, he would have ended all of civilization and possibly destroyed his original reality. Hell, he could have done so just by leaving that hut and interacting with people. I'd do the same thing in his position I'm sure, and I guess it all worked out more or less okay, but god damn he could have done as little as step on a fuckin butterfly and would have ended civilization as a result. That episode made me cry a lot though, extremely good writing, just finished S3. Awesome show.
On another hand, WHY STARTREK AND OVRILLE WOKE??? /s. Not like it is based in a post scarcity society that has no need for money, no need for anyone to work just to survive, and no hyper wealthy 1% pulling the strings behind the scenes. Ya know, literally communism. Makes me laugh when I find conservatives say that they loved Star Trek until it went WOKE, as if it hasn't been one of if not THE most progressive show on TV even from the beginning.
I think The Orville is one of the best science fiction shows ever.
I've thought so about several episodes. The best science fiction I've ever seen. As a whole: amazing.
It's my favourite star trek show
I really liked in the time travel episode that at the end Mercer sits down with Malloy and tells him what happened. I think the temptation to just move on and keep the deleted family a secret would have been very tempting.
I do think Klyden's redemption in e10 was a little too easily won. He was vile to his daughter when he left. A verbal apology is nice to have, but I felt like there needed to be more there...a show of actions matching up with words.
But the family wasn’t deleted.
They only found Malloy because he sent his SOS after he’d been trapped in the past for six months, but when they retrieve him he’d only been there for one month.
Based of the rule of temporal mechanics in The Orville that means that other Malloy is still with his family in his own timeline.
@@StarShipGray no he was canceled cause there was no possibility of him having that family
@@StarShipGray totally wrong. once the choice was made to change the past, the past was changed. the family is gone.
There's arguments for both sides - the timeline is in flux due to temporal contamination, and due to that its reasonable that the Orville may have caused a universal split into different timelines, rather than a simple erasure when rescuing Gordo.
It must have been hard for Seth MacFarlane to pretend he didn't know who the Red Sox were.
Greatest. Acting. Job. EVAH.
I liked the longer run time. Maybe they could have done as well with a shorter run time, but they did a good job with the run time they actually had.
I'm mixed on it. It does create some pacing issues, but at the same time it allows for a lot of little character moments that probably would otherwise be cut for time.
Same here - i never looked at the clock because i twas wondering how long it was going to last, but always was surprised it was over already.
Really hoping for season 4 (5, 6, 7) here.
@@markusostertag3032 I am too!
One counterpoint to complaints about Seth MacFarlane as a leading man - this season was far more centered around the rest of the crew than previous seasons. Mercer is involved in everything, sure, but the only plot that really centered around him was the one involving Teleya. Maybe he's not a great leading man, but he's more than competent enough to play part of an ensemble cast, and that's mostly what he's doing now.
Agreed. In terms of impact and screen time, this was really Adrianne Palicki's show this year (as well as Scott Grimes and Mark Jackson).
One thing I loved this season was Bruce Boxlietner as the Union President, giving a small nod to Babylon 5.
I’ve only just started watching this review, but I’ll say: Klyden’s talk with Topa at the end of that one episode made me cry.
I think that They let Klyden off too easy, especially after what he had said to Topa. Bortus and Kelly were just like "Oh, you changed your mind? Well then, all the misogyny and prejudice are OK"
Almost all the episodes this season had me in tears at some point. There was a lot of deep stuff.
That scene and Isaac giving Charly's eulogy both made me tear up.
@@frankandstein8618 I don't think they're letting Klyden off easy as he clearly indicates he's willing to put in the hard work to become better. If we don't allow for people to evolve and grow, there's no way we're going to move beyond such attitudes.
@@Tim85-y2q Maybe you're right, but his conversion just seemed kind of fast (and convenient) to me, especially after a lifetime of bigotry and hatred.
I would watch the quantum heck out of an Orville/Muppets crossover! PIGS IN SPACE!!!!
On what platform is that
@adventure... that is actually -- a very inspired thought!
I'm not usually a fan of killing off characters as it often seems clunky and forced but I thought Charly's storyline was done really well. We got to know her throughout the season which meant that her death was impactful. It also fit in with the arc of her character really well and felt natural. The person who hates the Kaylon dying to save the Kaylon because she's learned that revenge isn't the answer is a good bit.
Much better than Discovery giving Airiam backstory in the episode where she dies or Strange New Worlds going "I'd like to introduce you to Person Who's Going to Die #1 and Person Who's Going to Die #2, aren't they great?"
It was way better than Airiam but I still felt we didn't really spend enough time with Charly before she got killed off.
She was annoying in the first half of the season and I was only beginning to warm to her in the second.
Couldn’t care less about anything Charly tbh.
She was made aware off how her story would play out before she was hired.
@@LeftJoystick I was hoping Isaac would lose to the bikers on purpose. I just did not like her at all.
The serial numbers filed off! Loved that!
I always described The Orville as TNG with fart jokes.
Actually this season had fewer fart jokes and was better for it. Unapologetically so.
I think S3 was the show Seth always wanted to make but the studio wanted thier fart joke guy to make fart jokes for S1.
@@rickshaw0513, thank you for that. Had not considered the idea.
People saying that The Orville had fart jokes always bothered me, because it painted a false image of what kind of humour the show had in the first season. It was dumb and goofy humour, but it was adult humour such as Ed uncomfortable stating that he gets up several times a night to pee when talking to Bortus about the one time he urinates each year. Calling it a show with fart jokes makes it sound like it was way more low brow than it actually was. I honestly don't think there was ever a single joke centered around a fart.
@@benbaker6360, @Daniel Babineau, agreed this series - especially the latest season is definitely some A Grade science fiction that is to be taken seriously. It is not low brow by any standard.
Literally just finished binging this entire thing like a week ago, video could not have come at a better time. I think, ironically, The Orville made me a bigger Star Trek fan.
Well said, me too!
Yeah me too I often forget it’s not Star Trek
"Thanks God The Orville is not woke like NuTrek" got me laughing quite the fat laugh.
I agree about the ending and possible ending of the series. They wrapped thing up nicely so that if they get no more episodes, it had a satisfying ending. But yeah, if they do more like this, SIGN ME UP!!!
A Tale of Two Topas needs a damned Emmy. That was some top tier drama and messaging.
Something that might be missed by people who didn’t watch the first season is the reveal in “About a girl” that Klyden also was gender-reassigned by force. His bitter refusal comes across as all the more heartbreaking because of it - he’s trapped by his own values that he was raised with and still had a lot of unresolved issues himself.
Honestly I get the impression "about a girl" was never intended to be a stand alone episode and really just existed as a setup for "a tale of two topas"
Personally I the Seth is smart enough to understand the former wouldn't have successfully put out the message that the latter wouldn't have been able to do so well without the setup the proceeded it
The time travel episode absolutely killed me. Got some Tuvix vibes in between and it really had me on the edge of my sofa.
I thought exactly that too.
I don't think the show really appreciated how horribly Ed and Kelly behaved.
Have to hard disagree with the idea that longer episodes are a problem. I enjoyed every second and often lost track of time. Giving characters time to breathe and react only made the show stronger. A stand out example is in the first episode, when Dr. Finn in the simulator, first trying to talk to her son, then having a moment of profound grief on screen play out. They gave Penny Johnson so much to do this season and I was all about it. A shorter runtime though means this moment gets cut or severely reduced, and that would hurt the show significantly. I think the most common response to this would be to cut or reduce the time spent on "ship porn", and the engineers upgrading the ship. To that I say humbug. Those lighter moments are required to pull us away from the death of Issac and show how life goes on when someone dies (necessarily) but also when we cut back to people discussing Issac it shows that moving on isn't forgetting and that what he'd done was major in the lives of his compatriots. It makes the doctor's point in the ending therapy scene (where she says he couldn't account for change and the future) before she has to say anything.
This is just one example, but I think all the episodes being longer allowed for these sorts of moments and subtle storytelling to be done throughout season 3. Which elevates the entire thing.
The more Dr Finn the better.
I would have liked to spend more time with the children.
I thought B.J.Tanner (Marcus) was excellent in the first episode, but got sidelined after that
I like your comments and examples here, but disagree. You don't cut the simulator sequence. You cut the 12 minutes spent introducing the new fighter shuttle. The late season fighter scene could have been done with any ship including a crippled one for maybe even more drama. The only useful storypoint for me was to intro Charly's 4th dimensional visualizing. Its tempting to elaborate on why the fighter intro was a pretty bad scene for other reasons but it would be off topic.
What I love about James Cameron is when he inserts a new piece of innovative tech its a critical piece of the story adding
1 technical wow factor
2 important character building and
3 drama later on.
Two perfect examples would be "the loader" in Aliens and the rat/liquid oxygen scene in The Abyss.
I'll just say some episodes they used the extra minutes really well. Sometimes a lot less well.
Feel free to challenge me on any weakness. Its just my opinion. I'm not attached to it.
Agree. I can see how the 45 min time makes the producer focus on making the main plot move along quicker. Seth himself pointed out how the longer time allowed for better character development and more comprehensive plots. I liked TNG very much but I think it lost a lot of characters like Ro Laren and Tasha Yar in the 45 min limit. I can see how that longer time can make a plot plod but overall, I think the Orville made great use of the longer run times.
@@ronaldgray5707 Yes, I do mostly agree that the longer runtime does occasionally make the pacing weird, but whenever I think about what would likely have been cut, I wouldn't want to lose those quieter character moments.
@@alanpennie8013 She gave the show a real feel of reality. She is fantastic! I think my favorite!
Bruce Boxleitner shows up, and everyone is all like, "Babylon 5!"
I'm sitting there going, "TRON!"
I don’t have a source for it (I read it a while ago) but I believe I read somewhere that the weird, out of place, jokey stuff in Season 1 particularly, were actually at the insistence of the network, and Seth didn’t really want that. That’s why it was reigned back more in S2 and then even more this season. This is much more what he had in mind originally.
I actually enjoy (some of) the jokes that Steve puts up with (S1 was a bit overboard). I like the weird star casting, etc. But to Steve’s comment about Seth being not a strong choice for a leading character, I think that’s part of the pastiche. What would happen if this somewhat nobody guy got command of a new ship and that ship stumbled into becoming really important. Then this nobody is somebody and where do we go from here. But again, maybe that’s just because Steve and I have different tastes… and that’s okay.
I agree, McFarlane works for the screw-up, under-achiever who gradually becomes a great captain.
That's just the plot of Deep Space 9.
Exactly. If Mercer were in the Trek universe, he'd be assigned to the Cerritos, not the Enterprise.
That's one of the thing I like about it too. The Orville (the ship) is even explicitly a *mid-level* exploratory vessel. This isn't the Enterprise-D, flagship stuff. This is a C- or D-list crew that, through circumstances, now have to play in the big leagues. They're mostly competent, and usually get their shit done, but they are no top-of-the-line. I love the dichotomy.
That sandwich gag slew me for a solid day. The level of pure childish delight it gave me is just *chef's kiss*.
Time travel was much better handled this season compared to season 2.
The funniest thing about it to me is that Malloy can replicate a sand which any time he wants, but he's still happy to see that particular sandwich.
I like how at the start of the season, when they’re doing the “strategically smart” thing to do, they’re in a strategically bad place; the Kaylon are an existential threat, and then the Krill alliance falls through. When they decide to actually follow their morals and stop making compromises for strategic security, they end up it an objectively better position. It’s their morality that wins over the Kaylon, who are big heavies of the Orville universe. By standing by their ethics they’re in a much more secure place than when when they were making ethical compromises in the name of being strategically smart.
I was pretty torn between Strange New Worlds and Orville, both really great shows...but I gotta give it to Orville, in the end. Honestly, the fact that it's building on 2 previous seasons of getting to know these characters helps a lot, where we're still getting to know SNW's cast (yes, even this version of characters we already know), so that's an advantage, but either way, it feels like Orville is just that much more ready and willing to push the envelope in ways ST just doesn't. The finale, for ex, seemed like it was going the same way as Discovery's first season ending ("Should we throw away our ethics to bomb our enemies' home and save ourselves?"), but not only did Orville actually stay true to the ethics of the show, but it did so with some twists that were really unexpected and entertaining!
That's how I feel too!
One detail I loved in the Kaylon arc is that you learn why the Kaylon have red eyes! I’m contrast to the menace they seem to have when we first meet Kaylon who aren’t Isaac, their start is so innocuous. And it’s a great moment demonstrating implicit biases.
Only kaylon primary has red eyes Issac has blue and the others have yellow.
I loved the Kaylon back story and finding out that it was true. In season two, I didn’t realize the entire reason they were doing this was specifically based on fear of being enslaved again. Season one made it seem like Kaylons just hated other biological life for being inferior. The murdering our builders because we were slaves almost seemed like an excuse- like they became smarter than their builders, knocked them off, and then used the slavery thing as an excuse. But showing their back story and how it happened and how they literally are just afraid of being enslaved again. That’s it. They do feel superior to biological life, but that’s not the reason why they are exterminating it. The way they asked if they were going to enslave them again when they met after showing off the weapon tugged at my heart strings, not going to lie. And when they assumed Issac had been enslaved because he was getting married- just shows that they really are terrified of it. Even though the last one was played for laughs, it still reinforces that this is their main concern. And when they spoke about how sadistic their builders became and related the disgust masters feel for their slaves for being “helpless” even though they are the ones making them helpless was a great comparison and so true. I love the philosophical ethical dilemmas and the science in this show. I really hope we get a season 4. Even without Kelly Greyson- who said she would not return for a 4th season- I’d still like to see where their lives are headed in 2422.
@@HyenaPaintReally? I saw that one coming very early on even before they found the graveyards...which just cemented it to me...I still enjoyed the episode and seeing how it played out...I think it's a good warning for when we do finally manage to create sentient ai
I'm honestly in awe at how great this show is. It's just brilliant, and the writing is top notch. I absolutely love ❤️ this show.
A quick side note, the episode with Maloy going back in time would be a great place to set some sort of origin for a mirror universe episode in the future
They did hint that alt. Malloy and his family would not be erased from existence but occupy a branching time line.
@@alanpennie8013 not really as explained in the episode he was deleted cause there was no possibility of him existing after they saved past maloy
They didn't show Malloy and family disappearing so there's a possibility :)
This show is smart. I hope for a fourth season. Grossly underrated and under appreciated. Klyden returning was an emotional gut punch, excellent writing.
I totally agree with the comparison to SNW. I think both are fantastic for any Star Trek fan. And if you watch them back to back it's kinda reminiscent of watching TOS straight into TNG.
The writing on Orville S3 was way superior to all of ST Discovery. I actually got a tear or two watching “A Tale of Topas.” Star Trek writers please take note.
Thanks, Steve. Excellent video, but I disagree about the length of the episodes. I think they made very good use of the opportunity to take the exact amount of time they needed to tell each story, instead of having to chop it off at sixty minutes. Also, I'm glad they wrapped up loose ends in case this is the last season, but I hope it's not.
My brother loved this show I wish he could’ve got to watch season three.
I saw it coming...and still I cried. A lot of crying. Brilliant season.
Great Channel. Thanks
Trans woman here.
I LOVED the Topa episodes this season. Frankly, I think it redeemed the season one episode (which I thought was brave despite it's problems). A couple moments that Steve didn't have time to mention that made me smile: Dr. Finn IMMEDIATELY offering to resign her commission to be allowed to provide gender affirming care to Topa and Issac also beating up Klyden literally standing between the trans child and the bigot. This is how you ally!! It's such a good trans rights episode that I don't mind the flaws Steve mentioned. Just one trans woman's opinion but there it is.
Oh yes! What I really like is Topa's expression of discomfort that was exactly what I felt as a child.
The Moclans, and Bortus specifically, reminds me of the Krogans from the Mass Effect Series... Their weaponry design as well...
I hope for a Season 4, I want to see Ed reunite with his daughter...
The season 3 was so well written that I plan to rewatch this entire (current) Trilogy in a few weeks...
I hope we get more seasons also
I loved all the developments this season, but the time-travelling egg salad sandwich was the storyline that affected me the most.
LoL! Husband and I both busted out laughing and high fived over THAT! The attention to continuity made us both happy. 😂
I loved the re-appearance of the sandwich... brilliant!
This is the star trek we all needed.
Klyden turning into HusbandGuy was such a wonderful surprise. Seeing them be a happy family in the end was lovely
Gently Falling Rain flawlessly predicted the US's situation. Both the election and (what will be) the aftermath.
One of the funny things about the Dolly thing is that, it's so deeply American. I mean, Dolly is loved all over the world, but none of us would ever think to make her the philosopher poet inspiration for an alien gender revolution
The thing I find noteworthy about that isn't just that it's so American, but rather that it's so Star Trek. Star Trek tried to be pan cultural in it's ideals, but it never even pretended to hide the cultural context of it's production. The stories were set in a post national setting, hundreds of years in the future, but the stories were written by and for Americans, leaning on American folklore and mythology and shared cultural context, and the rest of us all either had to get on board, or find something else. I guess an old phone booth for a time travel space ship would do the trick if you're British. Us Aussies kind of got Farscape, a little.
But I think for the most part, international Trekkies take the Americanness of Trek with a gentle eyeroll, but mostly affection. And there's something about the Dolly plot that is so evocative of that feeling. A story that flat out doesn't make sense from the perspective of the show, but makes all the sense in the world from the perspective of it's production. Trek wears it's production on it's sleeves, and that's part of it's charm, and it's genuinely disarming to feel Orville carrying that on while shows like Discovery tended to steer away from it and make it a bit more modern and realist
It's like, Discovery is modern, it largely tries to conceal the artifice and ground the show within some kind of reality
Lower Decks is post modern, it tries to dig up and re-expose the artifice, whether or not it's effective in that endeavor
Classic Trek is, along that continuum, kind of, pre-modern (I know that's already a term that means something else, but hopefully you get what I'm saying) It never tried to expose it's artifice, but it also didn't worry all that much about hiding it. By actual pre modern standards it was plenty modern, and even a little post modern, but it is, at the very least, quaint, it's perspective of a galaxy that is so large and so far removed from our present context, but still seems weirdly interested in the American Civil War, a conflict that even for most people to day, just isn't something any of us think about most of the time, except for the fact that Americans keep weirdly bringing up. And, you know, like I said, it gets a gentle eye roll, but I have an affection for it and I'm glad to see that quality being kept alive in Orville
Kermit was another nice touch
One thing about "Domino" that I liked was Kaylon Primary literally speechless and unable to process Charly's sacrifice. This walking super computer is struck dumb at what happened.
And it moves him.
The only thing I think you overlooked, and maybe it was for video length, is Klyden's story and character arc overall, and how that relates to gay and trans people. If anything he is an allegory, especially due to his age in the show, of the closeted, self hating trans/gay person, who has been told his whole life that he was an aberration, and what was done to him was right, to make him normal, and fit into society's mold. I like that they allow him to begin to come to terms with who he is, and what was done to him through Topa's arc, with the beginning of that growth being shown at the dinner scene which capped the episode. If there is a season 4 I hope they explore his navigation through his PTSD around this issue.
Agreed. I’m always surprised that no one mentions that Klyden was also born female in their analyses of these episodes, and that his reaction must carry some baggage connected to that.
@@justinaclayburn2248
They didn't pull any punches in examining his self hatred.
It was impressive.
The third season of the Orville was amazing! I liked the first two seasons, but I LOVED the third season. The third season had a great story, several good character arcs, and several engaging episodes. Personally, I liked the longer episodes, and I think that the season is great to stream as a season. I want several more seasons of this show.
This season of The Orville was one of the most socially relevant and thought-provoking sci-fi content in current TV, which Star Trek, at its best, has historically been. Was it a perfect season? Of course not. But it did what good sci-fi should do: comment on present-day issues by using future or outlandish settings to decontextualize these issues from the nuance of the present and hone in on their essence. Plus, The Orville did so in what I found to be an entertaining and engaging way, while leaving some room for character development. This season reminded me of some of the best episodes of TOS and TNG.
I'm so happy there are TH-camrs like Steve and Jessie who review Trek and other Sci-fi with compassion and fairness. So many sci-fi channels have gone the way of misogyny, homophobia and transphobia.
When watching A Tale of Two Toppers. To me it was also a tale inspired also by intersex children that have had medical intervention by parents to help their child in the only way they know how to be able to survive amongst social norms.
And then when a child gets older and does not accept the decision and needs to decide for themself.
Then having to face the difficult consequences and changes involved that can become very closely related to the struggles and difficulties as those who are trans.
As a trans person myself. That is what I saw in this story.
I am not intersex by birth so I can not speak for such who are. So I do not claim to do so. I have my own story.
But that is what I personally saw in the plot of this episode. And a very well written social commentary in a sci-fi story to tell.
As someone who is much more conservative on issues, I still enjoyed Topa’s episode and thought it was well done.
I like that Seth MacFarlane doesn't fit the mold for the standard starship captain. I recognize that he's not a standard fit, and I'm more than fine with it.
Yeah, Ed Mercer's character is a perfect fit for what the Orville is, a crew that's become a large somewhat dysfunctional family, with Mercer as kind of the father figure -- bumbling but earnest, and determined to try to do the right thing at all costs.
It is kind of his character that he doesn’t fit, that he isn’t a “captain,” that he’s unfit to lead. In seasons 1 and 2 he doubts himself constantly, but shows that when it counts, he’s all a leader needs to be and more. S3 this isn’t mentioned as much, mostly since it’s not centered around Mercer nearly as much.
Steve, your dry sense of humor is everything to me. Thanks for another thoughtful and funny review we've all come to expect and love.
I loved season 3, however, I wanted a few more episodes focusing on exploration and working together to solve the problem in addition to the social commentary episodes. It felt like only one episode really did this “Shadow Realms”. I guess this is what happens when shows are only 10 episodes long. No more fun filler episodes.
16:47 , now that was a nice Dr. Strangelove moment wasn't it? "I'm sorry too, Primary. I'm very sorry. Alright! You're sorrier than I am! But I am sorry as well. I am as sorry as you are, Primary. Don't say that you are more sorry than I am, because I am capable of being just as sorry as you are. So we're both sorry, alright? Alright."
Thanks for the great review and discussion. Personally I really enjoyed this season of Orville. I already liked the first 2 seasons but this season just clicked. There were a few episodes and parts that truly felt like I was watching TNG back in the day.
So many of the episodes carried so much emotional heft that they still resonate today, even when they’re just described. Masterful television
Holy fuck "the piece of the grave shall never be yours " is such a raw line . Damn that's good
I've enjoyed most episodes of all the seasons of the Orville, but this season was extremely good and I am happy they were able to make longer episodes on Hulu. I think it gives them the freedom to tell the story how they want to tell it instead of being confined to a certain amount of time. I guess they could make the longer stories into 2 part episodes, but it might just work better as one 60 minute episode than two 45 minute episodes.
I've loved all three seasons but this third was on another level. Really very good. I hope they renew.
Gotta say - I had not expected to see that level of social commentary coming from Seth McFarlane. Also, I disagree that the episodes were too long. We treated it as a mini-movie set in the universe rather than episodic television, and didn't find any episodes dragged on. They were as long as they needed to be, and I'm not sure what could have been cut from any given episode while still making the level of commentary they did. (they could have told the same stories, but would they have landed as well without the exploration of side issues?)
Why not? All his cartoons are laced with it, granted not on the level of orville but silly cartoons just don't provide such an opportunity
As happened with Star Trek, conservatives have watched The Orville and found ways to interpret the progressive messaging as conservative messaging. A lot of them though that Topa and her story was supposed to be representative of parents forcing their children to transition, which is a myth that conservatives are conviced is a common and widespread occurrence.
I would say the ship looks like the TNG Enterprise from the inside, but from the outside it's definitely directly drawing from Galaxy Quest. Same goes for the uniforms. And yea, technically Galaxy Quest took it from trek, so..
Totally agree. After watching the first couple first season episodes and being mostly disappointed with the mostly forced humor, I jumped to Season Three ... and was totally delighted. There were really NO wrong notes, and a LOT of strong elements, which you pointed out very well.
The one thing you didn't mention is Scott Grimes' skill as a singer, which is pressed into service several times, most poignantly at the end of S3E10, with his take on James Taylor's "Secret of Life." That song has been a sentimental favorite of mine ever since I heard Sweet Baby James perform it at Blossom Music Center (via LaserDisc, admittedly!), and it and other musical choices which come out of _The Orville_ strike me as not just music for music's sake but part of the storytelling as well.
A damned good thing, from where I sit.
bortus is "basically worf," but bortus is a way way better father than worf ever hoped to be
As a fellow Steve, I found that opening a little aggressive.
Great video Steve 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾. I've been waiting on this one for a while.
I got misty just hearing you talk about "A Tale of Two Topas". I tuned in for some lighthearted pseudo-Trek and by the end my eyes were leaking.
I always thought that the story of the Mocclans was more about the intersection of Trans AND intersex issues. We have a lot of overlap with each other, and share similar struggles, sex reassignment at birth is one of the struggles of the Intersex community.
“The Federation counc- UNION!!! The UNION Council…”
(Coffee spit take)
Here's to hoping we get a season 4!
MacFarlane I'll make my own Next Generation, with whiskey and Hoo..mur! Humor!
"I can't believe it's not Star Trek"! I am ded.
I don't see The Orville as TNG. It more like DS9
If it was TNG, Topah would still be a boy, Charlie would still be alive, Moclas would still be in the union and so would the Krill, and they would never have created a superweapon
They did get the tradition of a crew member finding out that had a suprise kid and then completely ignoring them when they werent needed for the plot
The saddest moment in the whole season was Malloy enthusiastically saying Mercer did the right thing in Twice in a Lifetime... and Mercer just giving a look of utter guilt for what he did
One small moment really stuck out to me as it was the best, sweetest answer I've ever seen to the dilemma in fiction of one lover having a much longer lifespan, when Isaac promises to look after all of Claire's descendants.
Fantastic commentary and analysis. Have only just stumbled across your channel. Thanks and cheers from Adelaide, South Australia
Tale of Two Topas had such gorgeous musical choices in the songs You'll Never Walk Alone and Nature Boy.
Astropolitical. New word. I like it!
The Orville has become my favorite new Trek show.
If they do crossover with the Muppets, they better bring back the entire cast of Farscape so I can implode in joy!
The Orville is the trekkiest thing since Galaxy Quest.
My only problem with the Malloy episode is, why would the crew even approach malloy untill they knew for a fact they couldn't get any more fuel for more time jumps. Untill they interact with him it's Schrodingers timeline. They could have avoided the guilt of having to erase the family
TNG often chickened out of taking a position. They would defer to local law or cultural norms, instead of taking a moral stand. One of the many great things about Strange New Worlds is that it isn't afraid to do that.
The Orville season 3 is a lot better in this respect too.
It also had a better explanation of how the Prime Directive works and why that's important than Star Trek has put forward in 60 years.
I believe there's evidence that Gordon and his family got to live on in a split timeline.
Agreed. When Gordon is sent back to the past, you see several instances of him fly backwards. Not only that, but the distress all The Orville received was sent by Gordon AFTER he had been there for six months. When The Orville finally goes back to 2015 to get him, he had been there only four months, yet, he had to have been there after six months in order to send the distress call in the first place. There has to be at least one other Gordon still stuck in the past.
i was on the fence about taking the time to watch season 3 since the first seasons were uneven, but i'm going to drop the time to watch now.
28:59
Your simple RETORT is that you wanna roll dice?
I'M IN!!!
Excellent review
The "comedy" in season 1 and 2 always had me suspicious that MacFarlane only managed to get the show funded by promising "Star Trek with knob gags", as so often it's out of place to everything else going on. Season 3 feels like what it was always meant to be.
It seemed to be marketed as a Star Trek spoof at first, which you can tell Seth & co. didn't want it to be!
Agree. It seemed like he always wanted to get a real Star Trek series done but felt it would be easier to get support if it was at least to a degree a comedy. I like comedy but the series got better the more serious it became.
Uh guys. He went to CBS to do an actual Star Trek show, and was rebuffed. Then he went to FOX who said he could do it as long as he made it a comedy. It's no wonder the comedy was slowly bled out of the show. It's what he wanted.
It seemed obvious to me that his heart was more with the sci-fi aspect than the comedy aspect, but it's the latter that can get him meetings, so I understand why he had to go that way at the start. I think there's also the fact that they can skirt a lot closer to Star Trek if they can lean on the parody aspect.
Interestingly, the story dealing with Topa's gender can easily be viewed from the opposite perspective. Although we all know the political leanings of the show's creators, the story could also be seen as the triumph of biology over artificially induced gender changes. Topa was born female and no amount of surgery could change this. I believe there was an actual case of a baby boy, in the late 50's, who was raised as a girl after his penis had been accidentally cut off during a circumcision gone wrong. Although raised as a girl his internal psychology was always male and he was relieved to find out the truth and eventually had reconstructive surgery and got on with his life. At any rate, a well written show and the best “Trek” since TNG.
Side note, any beings from such a high gravity planet as Xelaya would be built like fire plugs, not the slender security officers who have served aboard the Orville.
It never ceases to amaze me how different opinions on art can be. Personally I loved S1, though S2 was ok at best, and S3 took itself far too seriously and was the weakest by far.
I'm glad the Orville is out there, especially to bridge the gap of no good trek during the dark days of discovery and picard. Fortunately SNW and especially lower decks fill the gap nicely that Orville has left in my heart.
It's a rarity for me to be impatient about "next week's episode". Season 3 was my recent exception.
You hit the nail on the head, Steve. Just the possibilty of an Orville/Muppets crossover would justify season 4 all by itself!
I think you have overlooked something very important about Kleiden's part in "a tale of two Topas". Kleiden himself was born a female and had the reasignment surgery as an infant, then learned about it as an adolescent, while having a similar identity issue as Topa is having in the episode. Kleiden was inmerse in his homeworld's culture and conformed,
One moment from Scott Grimes is how resolute, steadfast, and does NOT care because he's happy. After "rescued" he immediately says they did the right thing. It's so sad he was ok forgetting that Malloy. He was trained and knew his actions had reprocussions. Imagine finding your perfect life tho. Multiverse in such a subtle way.
The 90 minute thing...ehhh. The fantasy world from the quick time aliens...that was long.
My least favourite episode.
Though I didn't think too much of the Alien tribute episode.
Great summary and commentary!
I was so glad that they managed to recover the whole Topa thing, at least as well as they did.
Loved the grumpy old man intro very Steve
Isaac appearing as his human self at his own wedding gave me a bit of a pause. It's like, he's not really accepted as "himself." Though it was a season two episode, I was really super pissed about the first high gravity security lady getting a disability parable story that the only way she was accepted by her family was by "saving the day." Yeah, much more entertained without stupid joke distraction in season three. I like humor and science fiction humor can be great. Red Dwarf is one of my favs. A bit too "locker room" for me in the Orville.
Surprised the Kaylon didn't make use of their human holographic disguises during the war.
I read somewhere that Seth McFarlane did NOT want to include the kind of crass humor (dog licking its balls, etc) in the first season, but was FORCED to by Fox. "You're Seth McFarlane, people only watch your shows for the crass comedy, put it in there!" or something. Not sure how far that went, and if Season 3 represents something closer to Seth's "true/original vision" for the show. I'm looking forward to checking it out... someday. Not getting a Hulu sub though. Already have Prime, CBS, and HBO, can't justify another service at the same time.
I disagree about the runtime. It allows for all of those side character arcs you mentioned. In fact, I commented to my wife that I appreciated that being on streaming allows episodes to run to a natural length, rather than things being rushed.
Sorry you got so harassed about this, but thank you for releasing this video. I had been wondering about your thoughts on this show (and season, in particular), but didn't want to push you for them - I am always happy to see the TH-camrs I follow make videos on whatever they wish to talk about, as it's usually interesting.
No arguments about the general points on the show or that season 3 is the best so far, though it certainly isn't without its flaws - and, oddly enough, I feel like the increased budget/looser restrictions are at the heart of some of them. As you mention, I don't think there are any *bad* episodes, but there are some that are not as good as the others (honestly, I think the finale might be the worst just by virtue of being...just fine). Funny enough, I wrote this paragraph early in watching this video, so I didn't know you would address this. One consistent problem with many of the episodes is that they feel overstuffed or stretched: since they're no longer restricted to standard broadcast length, the shows run up to or even beyond an hour in length, often including superfluous bits meant to show off their far higher FX budget (the premiere's drone fight could've been trimmed a bit, for example) and sometimes including an extra act that tends to jettison the episode's previous allegory/focus in favour of a twist to justify another 20 minutes. It creates somewhat disjointed and muddled episodes, the best of which are able to navigate that well while most just kind of...ride through on the good will of what was there and the somewhat disconnected new parts it pushes in. It's not enough that I'd consider anything bad because of it or hold it against the creators (I can't blame them for showing off and taking advantage of their greater allowances), but it did bother me a bit. Oh, and I guess some of the multi-episode storylines feel a little rushed (Klyden leaves, has a change of heart, returns, immediately returns to normal life in the span of only a few episodes), but that's definitely a symptom of how few episodes there are in the season, and likely fears they wouldn't get renewed.
And I am all for the idea of a Muppet crossover - it might be reasonable but a little too far for something like Star Trek (Q or whatever could facilitate it easily, but it would seem to push in an odd meta manner) but seems perfect for the niche The Orville was able to carve, just beyond that line.
I truly enjoyed this season. The episodes your reference were indeed some of the best.
This was a very enjoyable review.
I love the Dr. Strangelove reference "well, he went and did a silly thing..." :D