If your of the orthodox world and born into America in the late 20th and early 21st century stay true to your father’s essence and seek out his energies in your family friends and work. Ignore the perverse modern world and all it’s barbarism . Слава Ісусу Христу!
well then if the government doesn't allow you to work, doesn't allow you to see friends and family and divide you into tribes, you really can't have none of that. It really feels like something wants to destroy civilization as we know it.
Of course she did. They're all using the same sources to feed their biases, for instance "Sex and Culture" (1934), by the ethnologist and social anthropologist J. D. Unwin, a book very pertinent to Pageau's point since it argues there's a link between the dissolution of sexual values and civilizational collapse; as such it's much referenced by internet right-wing culture warriors, even though modern-day anthropologists themselves don't pay it any attention, which says much about its value within its own field. It hasn't even been reprinted in decades; but somehow people who WANT to believe his thesis is true will find secondhand copies and make vids about it and spread his theory within their echo chamber communities.
Camille Paglia said at the end of a civilization there is an anything goes culture. Particularly homosexuality becomes more accepted and prevalent. In the art of cultures before they collapse hermaphrodism appears a lot and men start looking like women and women look like men. I see this in the music videos of the 1980's when men first started to look like women...
@Grutas Brolen Regardless of how good she is a as a scholar what she says rings true. At the height of a culture people become sophisticated and soft, outside the culture is a very assertive masculinity. Such as the barbarians at the gates of Rome or the Naziz in the Weimer republic. If you look at the US pullout of Afghanistan this paradigm seems to be repeating. It is quite a coincidence that just as the US is using Woke ads to recruit people it has a humiliating retreat the Taliban are a very assertive masculine force, ( I'm not a fan of them I'm just calling it as I see it). Even Bill Maher says people aren't as tough as they used to be. Easy times lead to soft people which leads to hard times... Yadda Yadda I am sure you have heard the quote.
Don’t forget UFO’s. The end embodies exceptions and the unknown. Theres nothing else left once you’ve reached the end of something. Great content guys, always appreciated.
Well Dr. Vladimir Zelenko might be right afterall, it's true that many things that happened before all the great wars happened the past few years or are happening right before our eyes, financial crisis being one and we are certainly headed to an even bigger financial crisis that's for sure. The future isn't looking bright but I guess faith can make it more tolerable.
I've been watching a lot of 60's music videos and saw The Cowsills performing "Hair" and it was very carnivalesque and symbolic, a pagan ritual centered around the dead parts of us that we usually cast away. Also the absurdity of fetishizing a commonplace natural process (hair growing on it's own). My dad would tell me stories about getting bullied for having long hair. For the boomers it really was this revolutionary act to buck gender norms. Now we are all paying for it. Fwiw the Hollywood producers of the "Hair" single cut the final verse, which referenced God, the Bible, and Jesus.
"My hair like Jesus wore it/Hallelujah! I adore it/Hallelujah, Mary loved her son/Why don't my mother love me?/Hair . . ./Show it, flow it, long as God can grow it, my hair."
Pray? Withdraw from civilization? Have more children? Despair is also an option, but counterproductive. It would make sense to target a large city with a nuclear missile, but *hopefully* not an isolated farm hold with a few dozen people.
It does not seem to me that the Roman empire and it's civilisation was lost... it just moved and changed. Also here in Britain after the Roman empire receded, we had the richest spiritual time in our history. That is, judging by the stories of those saints and their miracles.
@@servantofChristMichael The Aztecs don't fit this pattern. They were very religious after all, and they never formed a centralized empire in the same way as the Romans. Other tribes were loose vassals, and so the Aztecs remained very pure. It was Spanish disease and many angry neighbours that got them.
@@lukasjhdewaal8212 I'm no scholar of Aztec history but didn't the conquistadors meet them as a declining empire desperately carrying out human sacrifice in untold numbers? Religiosity has a shadow side. After all the Bacchic orgies of a dying Rome were also religious rituals.
Sure, but I consider the sacrifices a political problem, not a religious one. The Aztecs had a habit of antagonizing vassal states, so they would rebel, then captured their warriors for sacrifice.
@@Jim-Mc great comparison but this might be a big one. If it is a small or medium cycle, it will be more Gnostic than Reagan, who was very in line with American Protestantism. Probably more Christian than many presidents before or after.
Don't want to get your channel deleted off TH-cam, but I wonder if the "slave being made king for a day then getting killed" is manifest symbolically through the LE controversies like G.F. in 2020. However, part of me wants to say that the "slave", i.e., the lowest in the hierarchy, being made king indefinitely and not getting killed would instead indicate the end of cycle, that is, we are *not* manifesting the pattern properly. This of course could be manifest in our lowest common denominator culture and hip-hop culture as a whole.
Patterns of collapse: • Roman Empire crisis in the 3. Century: reduction in birthrate, people become interested in strangeness (also sexually), bizarre, perverse, carnivalesque, orgy culture. This leads to a desire (fetishizing) of the stranger. Young Romans would dress as barbarians. • The pattern of collapse is a fractal pattern. At the end of a year would be a carnival (f.e. for both Jews and Christians). F.e. Feast of fools, feast of the ass (donkey) - those are upside down behaviours. Circuses were at the EGDE of a town (the word edgy is now seen as something positive today). All of the stuff usually not permitted in a society would during the carnival come out for a day, and then one would move to normality. Right now, our world is a carnival. But it is reaching towards the end. - (saturnalia?) Making a slave into the emperor figure and at the end of the day killing this slave and move back to reality (the killing would be the end of the carnival). That’s what the world right now feels like. Covid: authoritarian climbdown. It doesn’t matter how it is justified; it is happening like a natural procession of a cycle. That’s what happened just before World War II: Weimar Germany. We are Weimar Germany x10. • This is a pattern; these cycles happen at the end of civilizations.
The implication seems to be that traditional values, moderation, industriousness, austerity etc are signs of a thriving healthy civilization and decadence, decay, perversion, irrationality are indicators of its end. But this is just a conservative caricature of so-called liberal values. Experimentation, exploration, new social arrangements, openness to outsiders, acceptance of diversity and few limits on any liberties could equally be seen as part of a dynamic and innovative society, in contrast to a stagnant, backward looking, rigid lifeless society without imagination or joy. For example, I found it curious that he claimed the Covid response was authoritarian, when it was a politically neutral public health approach of preventing infection through quarantine, a strategy going back to the bronze age. Merely planning to reach a collective goal is not authoritarian nor is it civilizational collapse. It is impeding public goods, sabotaging public consensus and creating social conflict that are among the more likely causes of accelerating civilizational decline.
Good argument you have here. Much as I rant against the modern world and it's modern values, I find surprising good in (which are in my opinion) it's darkest places. Dialogue between liberals and conservatives is perhaps our only hope.
Quarantine has only ever been applied to very sick people in the past, never to healthy, because in the long term it makes no difference. People can't seal themselves off indefinitely.
As Jonathan Haidt has pointed out and Jordan Peterson has expanded upon, a healthy civilization does have characteristics of both left and right working in some sort of harmony. Of course aspects of both are essential, and I'm sure that Pageau would agree with you. The problem is when one of those ends of the spectrum gains too much power and starts to manifest itself in unhealthy, destructive ways, which is what we are seeing now.
Yeah this is pretty bad history. The Saturnalia King wasn't killed afterwards, I can't find any source that mentions that although there were gladiatorial games. The Third Century Crisis was also an economic catastrophe so of course people had less kids, it's not like they were on birth control. I'm really interested to know what fetishization he thinks was present during the third century that wasn't present during the rest of Roman history. Also, Roman soldiers dressed like barbarians because they lived in frontier forts, married barbarians, and often were barbarians. It wasn't some kind of forced diversity training. Really a stretch.
Their customs became gradually less Roman. Cultural decline doesn't necessarily have to be imposed by a government. And the Latin West of the Empire *did* collapse. The East Roman Empire became... something else. Then it too collapsed because Byzantine politics were decadent. Their leaders all plotted and schemed to destroy each other, until the Turks destroyed them all.
I don’t think he’s talking about Roman soldiers, but rather the citizens. Dan Carlin produced a Hardcore History episode on the collapse of the Western Roman Empire and I remember him talking about Roman youths that would dress up as Goths or Vandals while they ran about the city engaging in hooliganism.
Who am I to criticize barbarian marriages. Love is love! And it's not like the diversity is forced, jeez, diversity is our strength. So what if I choose not to have kids? I'm a strong independent career woman, you should celebrate me. This is leveraging the propaganda of a decadent society to justify a different decadent society --- which in a roundabout way shows the fundamental pattern of decadence is the same, even if superficial details change.
CENTAURWORLD. I am not kidding. Uniting of opposites on a psychedelic level, marginal characters in a marginal world drenched in the bizarre, interwoven with brilliant ontological insights which are just as easily turned on their heads seconds later. My mind is blown, seeing the connections between some of what Jonathan Pageau has been talking about and this meme-level cartoon.
If your of the orthodox world and born into America in the late 20th and early 21st century stay true to your father’s essence and seek out his energies in your family friends and work. Ignore the perverse modern world and all it’s barbarism . Слава Ісусу Христу!
well then if the government doesn't allow you to work, doesn't allow you to see friends and family and divide you into tribes, you really can't have none of that. It really feels like something wants to destroy civilization as we know it.
if Camila Paglia does interviews she would be an interesting guest on this, she mentioned some of this stuff with Peterson
Of course she did.
They're all using the same sources to feed their biases, for instance "Sex and Culture" (1934), by the ethnologist and social anthropologist J. D. Unwin, a book very pertinent to Pageau's point since it argues there's a link between the dissolution of sexual values and civilizational collapse; as such it's much referenced by internet right-wing culture warriors, even though modern-day anthropologists themselves don't pay it any attention, which says much about its value within its own field.
It hasn't even been reprinted in decades; but somehow people who WANT to believe his thesis is true will find secondhand copies and make vids about it and spread his theory within their echo chamber communities.
Needed this right now. Preach Jonathan. Preach.
Camille Paglia said at the end of a civilization there is an anything goes culture. Particularly homosexuality becomes more accepted and prevalent. In the art of cultures before they collapse hermaphrodism appears a lot and men start looking like women and women look like men. I see this in the music videos of the 1980's when men first started to look like women...
@Grutas Brolen Regardless of how good she is a as a scholar what she says rings true. At the height of a culture people become sophisticated and soft, outside the culture is a very assertive masculinity. Such as the barbarians at the gates of Rome or the Naziz in the Weimer republic. If you look at the US pullout of Afghanistan this paradigm seems to be repeating. It is quite a coincidence that just as the US is using Woke ads to recruit people it has a humiliating retreat the Taliban are a very assertive masculine force, ( I'm not a fan of them I'm just calling it as I see it). Even Bill Maher says people aren't as tough as they used to be. Easy times lead to soft people which leads to hard times... Yadda Yadda I am sure you have heard the quote.
Yes after the carnival is the shutdown. Pinocchio illustrates this perfectly. Make sure you don't turn into a donkey/zombie/Prion disease.
Does CTE count as a prion disease? Because if it does, I'm screwed
Don’t forget UFO’s. The end embodies exceptions and the unknown. Theres nothing else left once you’ve reached the end of something. Great content guys, always appreciated.
Well Dr. Vladimir Zelenko might be right afterall, it's true that many things that happened before all the great wars happened the past few years or are happening right before our eyes, financial crisis being one and we are certainly headed to an even bigger financial crisis that's for sure. The future isn't looking bright but I guess faith can make it more tolerable.
I've been watching a lot of 60's music videos and saw The Cowsills performing "Hair" and it was very carnivalesque and symbolic, a pagan ritual centered around the dead parts of us that we usually cast away. Also the absurdity of fetishizing a commonplace natural process (hair growing on it's own). My dad would tell me stories about getting bullied for having long hair. For the boomers it really was this revolutionary act to buck gender norms. Now we are all paying for it. Fwiw the Hollywood producers of the "Hair" single cut the final verse, which referenced God, the Bible, and Jesus.
"My hair like Jesus wore it/Hallelujah! I adore it/Hallelujah, Mary loved her son/Why don't my mother love me?/Hair . . ./Show it, flow it, long as God can grow it, my hair."
What to do in the end of civilisation ? I am tired of this end of world scenario.
Pray? Withdraw from civilization? Have more children? Despair is also an option, but counterproductive. It would make sense to target a large city with a nuclear missile, but *hopefully* not an isolated farm hold with a few dozen people.
Repent and seek the LORD.
Join those who are on the rise!
So what's the pattern of rebirth look like after 'the hammer falls'?
It does not seem to me that the Roman empire and it's civilisation was lost... it just moved and changed.
Also here in Britain after the Roman empire receded, we had the richest spiritual time in our history. That is, judging by the stories of those saints and their miracles.
Giambattista Vico is a good read on this, the transition to democracy is a sure sign of it as well.
I would like to add italian subtitles to this video and share it, can I?
We live in the times of Noah
Aside from the Greeks, Romans, and Germans what other civilizations followed this pattern of collapse?
@ ø don't forget the Aztecs
@@servantofChristMichael The Aztecs don't fit this pattern. They were very religious after all, and they never formed a centralized empire in the same way as the Romans. Other tribes were loose vassals, and so the Aztecs remained very pure. It was Spanish disease and many angry neighbours that got them.
@ ø thank you!
@@lukasjhdewaal8212
I'm no scholar of Aztec history but didn't the conquistadors meet them as a declining empire desperately carrying out human sacrifice in untold numbers? Religiosity has a shadow side. After all the Bacchic orgies of a dying Rome were also religious rituals.
Sure, but I consider the sacrifices a political problem, not a religious one. The Aztecs had a habit of antagonizing vassal states, so they would rebel, then captured their warriors for sacrifice.
Exactly!
The excesses of the 60s in America ended with the election of Reagan. Another mini-cycle.
I was just making this comparison yesterday. I'm hoping for a mini cycle, or medium cycle at this point. Not ready for the big one, spiritually.
@@Jim-Mc great comparison but this might be a big one. If it is a small or medium cycle, it will be more Gnostic than Reagan, who was very in line with American Protestantism. Probably more Christian than many presidents before or after.
@@1walkerw Fun fact: Reagan was in to woo woos and soothsayers. He quoted a Manley P. Hall story in a speech… He was a fairy.
The Cuphead show that’s out right now is all about the Devil stealing souls through a carnival.
Don't want to get your channel deleted off TH-cam, but I wonder if the "slave being made king for a day then getting killed" is manifest symbolically through the LE controversies like G.F. in 2020. However, part of me wants to say that the "slave", i.e., the lowest in the hierarchy, being made king indefinitely and not getting killed would instead indicate the end of cycle, that is, we are *not* manifesting the pattern properly. This of course could be manifest in our lowest common denominator culture and hip-hop culture as a whole.
@ ø Trying not to get Jonathan deleted off TH-cam.
LE - Law Enforcement
G.F. - George Floyd
@@OneMansOdyssey He also shares a name with a very famous saint, and now he is regarded be many as a martyr, in a strange godless religion
Reminds me of the purge series
waiting for the hammer to fall , Queen.
Patterns of collapse:
• Roman Empire crisis in the 3. Century: reduction in birthrate, people become interested in strangeness (also sexually), bizarre, perverse, carnivalesque, orgy culture. This leads to a desire (fetishizing) of the stranger. Young Romans would dress as barbarians.
• The pattern of collapse is a fractal pattern. At the end of a year would be a carnival (f.e. for both Jews and Christians). F.e. Feast of fools, feast of the ass (donkey) - those are upside down behaviours. Circuses were at the EGDE of a town (the word edgy is now seen as something positive today). All of the stuff usually not permitted in a society would during the carnival come out for a day, and then one would move to normality. Right now, our world is a carnival. But it is reaching towards the end. - (saturnalia?) Making a slave into the emperor figure and at the end of the day killing this slave and move back to reality (the killing would be the end of the carnival). That’s what the world right now feels like. Covid: authoritarian climbdown. It doesn’t matter how it is justified; it is happening like a natural procession of a cycle. That’s what happened just before World War II: Weimar Germany. We are Weimar Germany x10.
• This is a pattern; these cycles happen at the end of civilizations.
Roman civilization ended? smh
The implication seems to be that traditional values, moderation, industriousness, austerity etc are signs of a thriving healthy civilization and decadence, decay, perversion, irrationality are indicators of its end. But this is just a conservative caricature of so-called liberal values. Experimentation, exploration, new social arrangements, openness to outsiders, acceptance of diversity and few limits on any liberties could equally be seen as part of a dynamic and innovative society, in contrast to a stagnant, backward looking, rigid lifeless society without imagination or joy. For example, I found it curious that he claimed the Covid response was authoritarian, when it was a politically neutral public health approach of preventing infection through quarantine, a strategy going back to the bronze age. Merely planning to reach a collective goal is not authoritarian nor is it civilizational collapse. It is impeding public goods, sabotaging public consensus and creating social conflict that are among the more likely causes of accelerating civilizational decline.
Good argument you have here. Much as I rant against the modern world and it's modern values, I find surprising good in (which are in my opinion) it's darkest places. Dialogue between liberals and conservatives is perhaps our only hope.
Quarantine has only ever been applied to very sick people in the past, never to healthy, because in the long term it makes no difference. People can't seal themselves off indefinitely.
As Jonathan Haidt has pointed out and Jordan Peterson has expanded upon, a healthy civilization does have characteristics of both left and right working in some sort of harmony. Of course aspects of both are essential, and I'm sure that Pageau would agree with you. The problem is when one of those ends of the spectrum gains too much power and starts to manifest itself in unhealthy, destructive ways, which is what we are seeing now.
A really interesting response. I started at Pageau’s position and wound forward to something alike your response.
+
Yeah this is pretty bad history. The Saturnalia King wasn't killed afterwards, I can't find any source that mentions that although there were gladiatorial games. The Third Century Crisis was also an economic catastrophe so of course people had less kids, it's not like they were on birth control. I'm really interested to know what fetishization he thinks was present during the third century that wasn't present during the rest of Roman history. Also, Roman soldiers dressed like barbarians because they lived in frontier forts, married barbarians, and often were barbarians. It wasn't some kind of forced diversity training. Really a stretch.
Their customs became gradually less Roman. Cultural decline doesn't necessarily have to be imposed by a government. And the Latin West of the Empire *did* collapse. The East Roman Empire became... something else. Then it too collapsed because Byzantine politics were decadent. Their leaders all plotted and schemed to destroy each other, until the Turks destroyed them all.
I don’t think he’s talking about Roman soldiers, but rather the citizens. Dan Carlin produced a Hardcore History episode on the collapse of the Western Roman Empire and I remember him talking about Roman youths that would dress up as Goths or Vandals while they ran about the city engaging in hooliganism.
Who am I to criticize barbarian marriages. Love is love! And it's not like the diversity is forced, jeez, diversity is our strength. So what if I choose not to have kids? I'm a strong independent career woman, you should celebrate me.
This is leveraging the propaganda of a decadent society to justify a different decadent society --- which in a roundabout way shows the fundamental pattern of decadence is the same, even if superficial details change.
CENTAURWORLD. I am not kidding. Uniting of opposites on a psychedelic level, marginal characters in a marginal world drenched in the bizarre, interwoven with brilliant ontological insights which are just as easily turned on their heads seconds later. My mind is blown, seeing the connections between some of what Jonathan Pageau has been talking about and this meme-level cartoon.