Catholics are completely unable to properly understand the transfiguration. They dont understand the clear light of tabor they dont understand hesychasm in fact they outright mock the concept calling it quietism. which is an absolute shame. These scriptures dont belong to you. Papal Protestants have no right to interpret the bible.
Everyday is the day of the Lord Read everyday Enjoy and be in Christ everyday Everyday is Christmas to me now Was an atheist for 25* years This is Church; communication and active fellowship daily in the world with others. Peace and blessings
The divine darkness always feels to me as a rich darkness full of living energy. For me it confirms that much more exists than we we can know. It reminds me that the ‘the cloud of unknowing’ is an absolutely necessary part of our lives. Godspeed.
What a marvellous interaction. This must be how the Cappadocian fathers sparked and fired off one another. Lifting the listener to higher and higher places.Even the interviewer at times can't help but express her awe as the Spirit tries to break through her hard academic heart/blindness of nous. It was cringeworthy that this woman with so little faith or even knowledge of traditional Christian theology is a lecturer in theology! She is truly blessed to find herself sitting between two giants of lived theology and unapologetic faith-filled orthodox Christians. A wonderful video. Thanks to Jonathan and Aidan.
You're such a hater. She's literally a Catholic. Just because she doesn't understand every concept i orthodox theology you're going to drag her through the mud. She's trying to learn and you are a dolt.
I remember when I first read The Transfiguration, I was completely blown away because I had never heard of the story in church, and now that I look back on the time I read, it was precisely the moment Jesus became real to me.
When someone does not agree with Gods Word it is like piercing His Son. His heart. Our hope for the future blessings that flow from obeying His Word & intimacy that is found only in His presence. The hope of glory is He dwells within us causing us to move the way He moves. So awesome. We feel levels and waves of this now, but one day in fullness. Be careful what you look at. It can say only so much and it can also leave so much out. In a way it seems helpful, but our warning is it can lead us astray. Awesome conversation, thanks for gathering in a circle and allowing His presence to be magnified their. God bless Israel, peace be on Jerusalem. Shalom 🙏🏼
This was such a great interview. Some of the problem with Jonathan is that his symbolic language is so natural for him that he isn't able to pinpoint what is throwing others off when he speaks. He often even says, "I don't know what to tell you....the symbol is so fundamental that you cannot explain it further...etc. (To be fair, he is getting better over time.) Having these two others, one to ask questions about things that do not make sense and the other to help express what Jonathan just said in terms that I can understand, this format helps a lot.
@Lords-ok3do I sense that English might not be your primary language, so excuse me if I misunderstand you. I don't know where you get the idea that it is wrong to mix philosophy and religion. That could be a philosophy of yours, or it could be a religious belief of yours. Either way, the statement deserves a proof to explain where it is coming from. If what you mean is that religion should be direct experience of God and philosophy is personal reflection about God, then I would agree that the two are not possible to do at the same time. Just like, it isn't possible to think clearly about the philosophical problem of pain while you are getting a tooth pulled. It is only after the tooth is out that you can enter philosophy again.
I like that Jonathan is hesitant to dumb stuff down. It makes it harder to grasp at first, but in the process of grasping it you discover more. A gradeschool textbook style explanation of the stuff Jonathan talks about would be so far removed from the things he's describing as to be more of an obfuscation than an aid.
@@Lords-ok3do Philosophy is a bridge in which to unite science with religion. Also the symbolic interpretation of Art is ambiguous, lending itself to philosophical analysis.
The tabernacle is something God gave our family to make with our hands. He thought this was the most inspiring revelation of who He is a reminder of how He chose to dwell. Yes. In us, but to work His out also His plan. If you have too many wives, you’ll have too many ideas. His wife knows His idea. He thought of them all and knows the best. This ONE that shines the brightest
Went onto Facebook for a moment, just as I clicked off I saw your story “The End of Symbolism” Oooo that looks interesting so I went back into Facebook to take another look, “The End of Symbolism, with Aidan Hart” - well obviously I have to watch this now 😂
Mother and Matter come from the same root: "Mater". The notion of gathering all of creation, all matter to clothe God the Son is what is shown with the most holy Virgin Mary, God the son is clothed in her, he took on her flesh, her humanity and assumed in her all of creation into God, she is the most holy veil, the holy ark of the covenant, she is all of creation (matter) and also the Queen of Creation (Mother) because she is the mother of God himself.
Wow, I've come a long way to be sortof confident in understanding this high flying conversation. I feel like I could have myself clarified a lot of her questions. Anyway, good video as always (:
33:00 that divine darkness is the darkest just before the dawn, shachar, the word for day break in Hebrew- beautiful Zohar on this that you'd appreciate
Princeton Theological Seminary Professor: “There is Simon and Peter….oh wait, are they the same person?” 🤦♂️ You you serious? Not sure if her cluelessness is an act or if she is fangirling or what is going on here…….but if she teaches anything like she presents here, I would be asking for my tuition back. Other than that, a great discussion for sure.
I don't want to be rude, but how is one a professor of theology at Princeton and a practicing Catholic without knowing what the Nous is? A bit shocking
Catholics don't use that word. It's pretty much exclusive to Orthodox Christianity, and her research is in Catholicism. I don't want to be rude, but it's a bit shocking how little research you put in before commenting.
@@cesardude99 she's a theology professor at an Ivy League school; it is indeed surprising that she doesn't have at least a passing familiarty with the concept, especially considering that it is a Greek term that is used in the New Testament.
@Kingfish179 she is not a theology professor. She is associate professor of congregational studies specializing in Haitian immigrants and the Catholic church. Her degrees are in psychology and sociology, not religion. So no its not particularly shocking that she isn't familiar with orthodox theology. Also if you really cared about these ideas, shouldn't you be happy that someone who doesn't know has the wherewithal to sit down with others and listen and learn? You're a total hater bud.
The interviewer has difficulty understanding the symbolic view (as many of us do) because we are not immersed in symbolic thought in our materialistic world. Earlier folk would have had an easier understanding.
Hi if anyone reads this can you tell me if Jonathan ever made a video on Spirited Away. I believe I remember watching him talk about it and am very sad to not be able to find it. Thanks
I am a huge ghibli fan and I think it's a huge disappointment that Pageau took that video down! Maybe it was for copyright reasons. In any case, studio ghibli films are so rich in beautiful symbolism and I so wish he would make a series revealing the symbolism in all the Miyazaki movies, especially now that his last movie is being released.
17:56 But the patristics have lost the midrash of the Feast of Tabernacles (sukkot) that would have helped unpack this symbolism further... The skin of the Leviathan as the walls of the Sukkah at the end of days.... the hymns may be well versed in Tanakh but the break of the symbolic languages between Judaism and Christianity greatly reduced them
The human mind is inundated with visual symbols... nature, art, dreams, etc. Therefore, in modernity New Symbolisms (i.e., heavenly realm) will be required by religions for the spiritual progress of the advanced thinking minds.
25:15 I don't quite understand - yes Moses saw God's back in Exodus but in Numbers and Deuteronomy it says he spoke to God face to face and mouth to mouth. Even the entire people at Sinai are said to have done so briefly. Is this really different?
🦅 I did not notice a catholic gate into the eternal Kingdom? What gate will you enter by? What standard of tribe do you live by, what banner did you camp ⛺️ in while entering the land He promised our fathers?
Many Rings of Power: Thorns around Heart, tames the Tempest, keeps Emotions in Control, must be placed on by the self, proves control and mastery. Noose between Heart and Brain, Observes the thoughts and feelings that travel to mouth, ensures Truth is Spoken, can be placed others or self, best if by the self, self control. Crown on Head, connects the human external viewing to the Divine, must be earned and gifted, never taken. Halo is like an antenna, also indicator and filter from top to bottom, protects the top from the bottom, Angels can have multiple halos and multiple wings, earned and gifted, never taken.
The Transfiguration Icon is the Messianic Mandala par excellence. The 'Tabor' Heb. Centre/Navel is the God man Christ. Sinai/Revelation His Right Hand. Carmel/Renewal His Left. The two Prophets cap these mountains of meaning. The three Apostles refract from Jesus to John Elijah to Peter Moses to Jacob/James. It is the personified illustrative equivalent to the Magen/Shield of David (Star).
Any paraphernalia of the Lord, during His pastimes on earth, becomes transcendental and is no longer considered material. Same as any item we use to worship and glorify the Lord. These become imbued with the Holy Spirit and are non-different from His form as the body of Christ.
39:40 God doesn't reveal to Moses exactly how to build the tent of meeting- Betzalel has a deeper vision of it having the skills to craft and carve it... Important nuance
I know Jonathan is almost shocked by her questions Like she’s stuck in materialism and even though she’s Catholic she talks as if it is not real and is pointing to something else? But it led to an interesting interview!
this setup looks an awful lot like "Between Two Ferns with Zach Galifianakis". I keep expecting it to get awkward or for someone to start dissing someone else in a passive-aggressive way.
I’m not sure I follow you’re saying about transfiguration being anti-symbolic. The face of the incarnate Christ is the thing that is shining, it is through the symbol that the light is revealed. Do we not also believe in the real presence of divinity in the body and blood of Christ even though we also believes it’s a symbol?
Yes and also it's not that it's because it's not a symbol that they can't build a tent around 'it.' HOW CAN YOU PUT A BOUNDARY AROUND THE BOUNDLESS LORD??? I kept waiting for them to get to this point, the Lord Himself cannot be contained in any structure, even the thought or mention of it is, in a sense, blaspheming the Lord by thinking you can cover or control His Effulgence!
I'll try to answer as best I can. They don't mean anti- as in "opposed to" but simply as "not" the symbol. The preposition αντι (anti) in Greek can also mean the substitution or replacement of one thing with another. The symbols point to Christ, but Christ and the symbol are not identical. The Eucharist is not a symbol. It IS Christ. The symbols are therefore replaced by the Eucharist itself now that Christ is revealed to us in all His glory. All of the symbols of the Eucharist that appear throughout Holy Scripture point to Christ. Similarly, the Ark, the Burning Bush and the Tabernacle are symbols of the Theotokos (the Tabernacle contained the Shekinah, the Bush 'contained' the fire without being consumed, and the Theotokos contained Christ), but they are not the Theotokos. The Theotokos is she who the symbols foreshadowed and pointed to, just as the symbols of Christ foreshadowed and pointed to Him. I can only speak from an Orthodox perspective, but typology plays an extremely important role in our theology. If you really want to gain a better understanding of what Aidan and Jonathan are alluding to, you should start there. In Orthodox typology, the antitype isn't necessarily in opposition to a type; it can also be the fulfilment or recapitulation of the types that point to it.
“Purify the nous” is a false idea. The nous is inherently pure, untarnishable, incorruptible. You cannot purifying that which is always and already pure. The task is rather to remove all that obstructs and obscures one’s noetic perception.
@@bradleyperry1735 The nous can be likened to a spiritual “organ” which enables man to directly perceive God. This ability is inherent in man - it’s not something added and it’s not something which can be taken away or corrupted. It’s what we see in Eden before the fall. However, what prevents man from directly perceiving God is the forgetfulness of who he really is brought about by his attachment to thoughts, perceptions, ideas, etc. Man gets lost on the level of thinking and doing. Because of this, man no longer sees clearly, “face to face,” but as “through a glass, darkly.” Therefore, it’s not the nous which has become corrupted or darkened and needs purifying. What’s needed is the removal of the “dark glass” of the mind which has obstructed and obscured one’s noetic perception. For this, man must set aside all his false thoughts, perceptions, ideas, etc and return to the level of simply being who he always and already is. In this comes the return of man’s inherent ability for noetic perception.
I believe it’s “nous” had to look it up myself, and from what I’ve researched it’s something on the lines of intellect and soul when used to talk in a religious manner… however I’m not exactly sure.
“Since you are God's dear children, you must try to be like him. Your life must be controlled by love, just as Christ loved us and gave his life for us as a sweet-smelling offering and sacrifice that pleases God. Since you are God's people, it is not right that any matters of sexual immorality or indecency or greed should even be mentioned among you. Nor is it fitting for you to use language which is obscene, profane, or vulgar. Rather you should give thanks to God. You may be sure that no one who is immoral, indecent, or greedy (for greed is a form of idolatry) will ever receive a share in the Kingdom of Christ and of God. Do not let anyone deceive you with foolish words; it is because of these very things that God's anger will come upon those who do not obey him. So have nothing at all to do with such people. You yourselves used to be in the darkness, but since you have become the Lord's people, you are in the light. So you must live like people who belong to the light, for it is the light that brings a rich harvest of every kind of goodness, righteousness, and truth. Try to learn what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the worthless things that people do, things that belong to the darkness. Instead, bring them out to the light. ( It is really too shameful even to talk about the things they do in secret.) And when all things are brought out to the light, then their true nature is clearly revealed; for anything that is clearly revealed becomes light. That is why it is said, “Wake up, sleeper, and rise from death, and Christ will shine on you.” So be careful how you live. Don't live like ignorant people, but like wise people. Make good use of every opportunity you have, because these are evil days.” Ephesians 5:1-16
I suspect she doesn't really believe in the God they are describing. At times I see she wants to. We can pray for her to increase her faith in the light if the Transfiguration.
41:20 I think Aidan just went too far when he described Christianity as panentheist. Nope. The creation being iconic is not the same thing as God BEING IN everything. Iconic is to reveal him, but is not him. We must be careful lest we fall into Richard Rohr's heresy.
Google orthodox panentheism. It's a doctrine in the eastern church. You might not agree with it, but Aidan is drawing from his own tradition whether it triggers you or not.
@cesardude99 first, a thoughtful response is not being triggered. Next, would you say that the Orthodox definition of panentheism differs from Rohr's use of it? If so, how?
@@PsychoBibleNot too familiar with Richard Rohr, but my guess is that the Orthodox have the Essence/energy distinction, which would make this possible without falling into heretical positions.
@everlastingphronema9700 yes, that seems to be a difference. Rohr uses panentheism in a way that is almost indistinguishable from pantheism. He claims that the creation of the world was the first incarnation of Christ, and therefore, all material things are manifestations of God. It takes it further than saying God is reflected in all of creation and thus creation is iconic or sacramental, but rather that God is literally in each thing. For example, Rohr dedicates his book, The Universal Christ, to his dog, whom he describes as being God for him.
To those posting all kinds of demeaning, critical thoughts without any context but rather a reflex to cast stones into the internet ether. Why not just acknowledge you're angry and full of venomous thoughts that you don't know what to do with? Then use orthodox practices, like confession, fasting and the Jesus prayer to contend with them?
The End of Symbolism. 60 years later: "write John, about these things: beasts rising, trumpets, seals, vials and other symbols that might confuse the average reader..."
Red jeans 😲 now that's a symbol I thought was dead. I'm sure of it... that must be a westy thing. Gezus Shazza, it ain't the pouge, it's gutter black, love.
I find Patricia's questions very strange. Is this real or just inventwd by man. Does she think that anything we can perceive is NOT invented by man? Does she think any other living being perceives the world like the human being? Very strange - she can't think that God exists without man could she?
No offense, but this poor woman is clueless, she must have been so uncomfortable knowing she understood nothing, and so Ill equipped to speak intelligibly on the subject.
Just when I feel edgy listening to her, I am “relieved” when she makes way for the gems they have to share. Wonder if she could be coached into a less grating interview style…….
Symbols are of the king-high priest self appointed god deities Symbols have nothing to do with the true loving original creator whom gifted us love in our hearts this is why we are in likeness of the loving character of God we were asked not to bow down to images! ... The Symbols were of the badseed bloodlines chosen and refer to the fallen ones whom followed in the narcissistic character of those that wanted glory power and control ... All systems and organisation's the men of reknown the elect royal crown pharonic emperors kings queens princess princesses their bloodlines are the Principalities we are up against .. . All churches are of the sons of man the divine light is the amen ra the the false light of alchemical magi - sciences The transfiguration is the shapeshifting of those that put the human skin but were of the one that speaks of good but is not of good ... those that taught and told us we aren't worthy of gods love unless we follow their church or spiritual traditions ceremonies rituals aren't following in the likeness of the love given the love of God in our hearts is all that is of good ..when those that fell and appointed themselves above others they have no love they do not know the true love was given that love is within this is why we were asked to seek with all our hearts -please remember what love is and means and that it was the love that Satan rejected and it was Satan that is narcissistic in character all that is not of love is not of good .... People have forgotten the love given and have believed the narcissistic founders of the ones that were born for the works glory riches power control the legions are the kingdoms that are of half truths but not the true love given ... The anchor is the ORDERS the one foot on the sea-cee..the one foot on the Land... Good - love - is nor of war fear jelousy nor of sacrifices which is murder - double edged sword and the double meanings of words- spell- ing is those that speak of good but are not...
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” (no partners, no trinity) - the highest commandment according to Jesus (but Paul made Jesus a partner of God) 2. “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (no idols or images. Paul brought the idol worship of Greeks into Jewish religion and made the cross ✝️ the idol to worship beneath God Almighty who commanded that you shall not make any images or idols and worship them).
Philippians 2:5-8 (NIV): 5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death- even death on a cross!
@@Jordan18561 Thank you. Notice in the very next verse. 9 Therefore God exalted him (Jesus ) to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name. What does this passage mean to you?
@@bradleyperry1735 I could care less about what you label me or what any person or organization considers heresy the point and fact remains more often than not imagery is interpreted through one’s own facilities unless otherwise guided and when unguided far to many make of them whatever they desire or believe them to be this is confusion, God has given us has chosen his word to paint mental pictures in our minds lest we make golden calf’s or become as the Egyptians and other makers of idols icons etc whatever you may want to call them.
@@bradleyperry1735 incoherent nonsense really. So let test this if you were to walk into a place and see images plaster all over the walls without anyone to explain to you their meaning from where would you draw your conclusion about said images? Now walk into that same place with no images but the written word of God is there or someone is presently reading it, which would you more likely to understand. I argue the word of God is sufficient enough, if you rely of childish things to gain some sort of understanding that’s on you but our goal is to more toward maturity not backward. One can and will survive without the other and that’s the word of God.
@@bradleyperry1735 you remind me of a certain occurrence recorded in acts “And the same time there arose no small stir about that way. For a certain man named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen; whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth. Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands: so that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.” Acts 19:23-27 KJV No replace Diana with your venerated images are you afraid your craft will come into disrepute is your ability to profit from your carved images more important than the word of God. I admire Johnathans incite concerning these images and their symbolism but Johnathan and his understanding of these things is far from the norm the average person has no idea what they mean and that alone should cause one to question the ethic of their use.
Nothing gives meaning where no meaning is. ²And truth needs no defense to make it true. ³Illusions have no witnesses and no effects. ⁴Who looks on them is but deceived. ⁵Forgiveness is the only function here, and serves to bring the joy this world denies to every aspect of God’s Son where sin was thought to rule. ⁶Perhaps you do not see the role forgiveness plays in ending death and all beliefs that rise from mists of guilt. ⁷Sins are beliefs that you impose between your brother and yourself. ⁸They limit you to time and place, and give a little space to you, another little space to him. ⁹This separating off is symbolized, in your perception, by a body which is clearly separate and a thing apart. ¹⁰Yet what this symbol represents is but your wish to _be_ apart and separate. 9. Forgiveness takes away what stands between your brother and yourself. ²It is the wish that you be joined with him, and not apart. ³We call it “wish” because it still conceives of other choices, and has not yet reached beyond the world of choice entirely. ⁴Yet is this wish in line with Heaven’s state, and not in opposition to God’s Will. ⁵Although it falls far short of giving you your full inheritance, it does remove the obstacles that you have placed between the Heaven where you are, and recognition of where and what you are. ⁶Facts are unchanged. ⁷Yet facts can be denied and thus unknown, though they were known before they were denied. 10. Salvation, perfect and complete, asks but a little wish that what is true be true; a little willingness to overlook what is not there; a little sigh that speaks for Heaven as a preference to this world that death and desolation seem to rule. ²In joyous answer will creation rise within you, to replace the world you see with Heaven, wholly perfect and complete. ³What is forgiveness but a willingness that truth be true? ⁴What can remain unhealed and broken from a unity which holds all things within itself? ⁵There is no sin. ⁶And every miracle is possible the instant that the Son of God perceives his wishes and the Will of God are one. A Course In Miracles (Jesus)
Jonathan and Aidan wonderful as usual. The real miracle is that a practicing Catholic still has a job at Princeton.
Yea most of ivy League are Satan worshipers
😂👍
Prolly kept on so Princeton can say, “See? We have diversity of thought!”
I love the symbolism in this parody of between two ferns.
You beat me to it. The only thing missing is the red button. Perhaps the red pants are symbolically pointing to that which is missing 🤔
@@JohnnyMUTube indeed, pants and buttons share the category of "things that can be pressed" ... but ... _what does it all mean_
@No_Ghosts templars, the holy grail, red uniforms, buttons. Take this offline now, we're too close.
@@JohnnyMUTube 😂
@@No_Ghosts🤣🤣🤣
this is literred with gems
Very timely for us Catholics as this is our Gospel reading for this coming Sunday.
Same for Orthodox on the New Calendar 😁
Catholics are completely unable to properly understand the transfiguration. They dont understand the clear light of tabor they dont understand hesychasm in fact they outright mock the concept calling it quietism. which is an absolute shame. These scriptures dont belong to you. Papal Protestants have no right to interpret the bible.
Everyday is the day of the Lord
Read everyday
Enjoy and be in Christ everyday
Everyday is Christmas to me now
Was an atheist for 25* years
This is Church; communication and active fellowship daily in the world with others.
Peace and blessings
The divine darkness always feels to me as a rich darkness full of living energy. For me it confirms that much more exists than we we can know. It reminds me that the ‘the cloud of unknowing’ is an absolutely necessary part of our lives. Godspeed.
Happy Transfiguration Day my Orthodox Brothers & Sisters ! Christ is Risen 🙏🏻☦️🙌
Wow this Aidan gentleman is amazing! I need to hear more from him.
hart is the perfect compliment to pageau...fantastic discussion
What a marvellous interaction. This must be how the Cappadocian fathers sparked and fired off one another. Lifting the listener to higher and higher places.Even the interviewer at times can't help but express her awe as the Spirit tries to break through her hard academic heart/blindness of nous. It was cringeworthy that this woman with so little faith or even knowledge of traditional Christian theology is a lecturer in theology! She is truly blessed to find herself sitting between two giants of lived theology and unapologetic faith-filled orthodox Christians. A wonderful video. Thanks to Jonathan and Aidan.
Respect is due to all heartfelt and honest seekers of the Light.
Historical knowledge a theologian does not make...
You're such a hater. She's literally a Catholic. Just because she doesn't understand every concept i orthodox theology you're going to drag her through the mud. She's trying to learn and you are a dolt.
@@curlyfryactualthe only light there is is God Himself. all else is either reflective of Him, or counterfeit.
God uses us all as He has need for His Glory! Thankfully He knows what we need to bring us closer to Him. 🥰🛐✝️🙏🕊
@@alexeios true or not, that doesn't really change the nature of my statement
I'm just 1 minute in but I must say that I love that it looks like it was shot on Betamax tape in the early 90's...😄
Creation is God's overflowing love.
I remember when I first read The Transfiguration, I was completely blown away because I had never heard of the story in church, and now that I look back on the time I read, it was precisely the moment Jesus became real to me.
When someone does not agree with Gods Word it is like piercing His Son. His heart. Our hope for the future blessings that flow from obeying His Word & intimacy that is found only in His presence. The hope of glory is He dwells within us causing us to move the way He moves. So awesome. We feel levels and waves of this now, but one day in fullness.
Be careful what you look at. It can say only so much and it can also leave so much out. In a way it seems helpful, but our warning is it can lead us astray.
Awesome conversation, thanks for gathering in a circle and allowing His presence to be magnified their. God bless Israel, peace be on Jerusalem. Shalom 🙏🏼
Let's go, Jonathan. Love you, buddy!
In South Africa, WC, We literally just had a conference at my church about this! It was called Kings&Priests ❤ wow God is good!!
Bro been reading how bad it is in sa, race wars, idk the truth of it, but if its as bad as they say please take care and get out.
I grew up in Durbs ,New Germany then Pinetown now living in Uruguay , what part of SA you from or in ?, Christ is KING !!!
@@Bakarost The protests should end soon ❤️
@@pacifistidentitarian549 I'm in Somerset West, just outside Cape Town. Amen. Christ is King. Bless u
Three wonderful people I've been blessed to meet!! Thank you for all you do.
Thank you Johnathan.
Grateful to God that I, and many others, can watch and learn from such great thinkers.
This was such a great interview. Some of the problem with Jonathan is that his symbolic language is so natural for him that he isn't able to pinpoint what is throwing others off when he speaks. He often even says, "I don't know what to tell you....the symbol is so fundamental that you cannot explain it further...etc. (To be fair, he is getting better over time.)
Having these two others, one to ask questions about things that do not make sense and the other to help express what Jonathan just said in terms that I can understand, this format helps a lot.
@Lords-ok3do I sense that English might not be your primary language, so excuse me if I misunderstand you. I don't know where you get the idea that it is wrong to mix philosophy and religion.
That could be a philosophy of yours, or it could be a religious belief of yours. Either way, the statement deserves a proof to explain where it is coming from.
If what you mean is that religion should be direct experience of God and philosophy is personal reflection about God, then I would agree that the two are not possible to do at the same time. Just like, it isn't possible to think clearly about the philosophical problem of pain while you are getting a tooth pulled. It is only after the tooth is out that you can enter philosophy again.
I like that Jonathan is hesitant to dumb stuff down. It makes it harder to grasp at first, but in the process of grasping it you discover more. A gradeschool textbook style explanation of the stuff Jonathan talks about would be so far removed from the things he's describing as to be more of an obfuscation than an aid.
Spot on.
@@Lords-ok3do Philosophy is a bridge in which to unite science with religion.
Also the symbolic interpretation of Art is ambiguous, lending itself to philosophical analysis.
Aidan has good understanding
“Beauty, Truth, and Goodness”
The tabernacle is something God gave our family to make with our hands. He thought this was the most inspiring revelation of who He is a reminder of how He chose to dwell.
Yes. In us, but to work His out also His plan.
If you have too many wives, you’ll have too many ideas.
His wife knows His idea.
He thought of them all and knows the best. This ONE that shines the brightest
I am listening to this on the Feast of the Transfiguration, thank you!
Super important talk!
LETS GOOOO. I'm hyped 🙌
Amazing video thanks
Dang the thumbnails lately are just ✨chef's kiss✨
SO POWERFUL
Gorgeous conversation.
Wow!❤
Went onto Facebook for a moment, just as I clicked off I saw your story “The End of Symbolism” Oooo that looks interesting so I went back into Facebook to take another look, “The End of Symbolism, with Aidan Hart” - well obviously I have to watch this now 😂
Edit: Aidan Hart is my name, funny old coincidence, it seems the subject is even relating to certain ideas of mine lately
Mother and Matter come from the same root: "Mater". The notion of gathering all of creation, all matter to clothe God the Son is what is shown with the most holy Virgin Mary, God the son is clothed in her, he took on her flesh, her humanity and assumed in her all of creation into God, she is the most holy veil, the holy ark of the covenant, she is all of creation (matter) and also the Queen of Creation (Mother) because she is the mother of God himself.
All glories!
And 'Pater' is for father,but root for pattern. The world without one or the other of pattern and matter , heaven and earth, cannot exist.
Exactly @@Nanban_Ed
Great video.
So very fitting that the introductory animation is a structure made of structures 😊
Wow, I've come a long way to be sortof confident in understanding this high flying conversation. I feel like I could have myself clarified a lot of her questions.
Anyway, good video as always (:
33:00 that divine darkness is the darkest just before the dawn, shachar, the word for day break in Hebrew- beautiful Zohar on this that you'd appreciate
50:30 “kingship is the kingship of an artist; to make creation more articulate in the praise of God”
Thanks
This was enLIGHTening! :o)
EYE SEA wot ewe did their ! ClevR!
_now you're thinking with symbolism_
Princeton Theological Seminary Professor:
“There is Simon and Peter….oh wait, are they the same person?” 🤦♂️
You you serious? Not sure if her cluelessness is an act or if she is fangirling or what is going on here…….but if she teaches anything like she presents here, I would be asking for my tuition back.
Other than that, a great discussion for sure.
Illuminating!
I know those plants aren't ferns but it still seems like Zach Galifianakis is missing
Honestly, a Zach Galifianakis segment with Jonathan Pageau would be amazing.
Imagine the weird roasts he could come up with.
Agreed!
scrolled down to this thinking 'surely someone else has noticed'
Jonathan looks a bit like him. Particularly in this one. 😅
Very informative and interesting interview.
Can't believe there's 25 thousand other nerds out there like me.
I don't want to be rude, but how is one a professor of theology at Princeton and a practicing Catholic without knowing what the Nous is? A bit shocking
what the heck is a nous
Catholics don't use that word. It's pretty much exclusive to Orthodox Christianity, and her research is in Catholicism. I don't want to be rude, but it's a bit shocking how little research you put in before commenting.
@@cesardude99 she's a theology professor at an Ivy League school; it is indeed surprising that she doesn't have at least a passing familiarty with the concept, especially considering that it is a Greek term that is used in the New Testament.
Oh, this might be that "female theologian" thing. Women aren't supposed to be teachers of the Scripture, in St. Paul's opinion.
@Kingfish179 she is not a theology professor. She is associate professor of congregational studies specializing in Haitian immigrants and the Catholic church. Her degrees are in psychology and sociology, not religion. So no its not particularly shocking that she isn't familiar with orthodox theology. Also if you really cared about these ideas, shouldn't you be happy that someone who doesn't know has the wherewithal to sit down with others and listen and learn? You're a total hater bud.
The interviewer has difficulty understanding the symbolic view (as many of us do) because we are not immersed in symbolic thought in our materialistic world. Earlier folk would have had an easier understanding.
It is for many a deep but faded memory of what the world looked like as a child
11:30 whats the name of the book Adian heart mentioned the one that has the translation of all the fixed feasts to english. Anybody pls???
The Festal Menaion
Hi if anyone reads this can you tell me if Jonathan ever made a video on Spirited Away. I believe I remember watching him talk about it and am very sad to not be able to find it. Thanks
I am a huge ghibli fan and I think it's a huge disappointment that Pageau took that video down! Maybe it was for copyright reasons. In any case, studio ghibli films are so rich in beautiful symbolism and I so wish he would make a series revealing the symbolism in all the Miyazaki movies, especially now that his last movie is being released.
I asked in a comment for a spirited away analysis, but never saw one from him
He did make one and it was brilliant. I think it was removed due to copy right issues.
bruh just reupload it audio only@@xjmg007
17:56 But the patristics have lost the midrash of the Feast of Tabernacles (sukkot) that would have helped unpack this symbolism further... The skin of the Leviathan as the walls of the Sukkah at the end of days.... the hymns may be well versed in Tanakh but the break of the symbolic languages between Judaism and Christianity greatly reduced them
The human mind is inundated with visual symbols... nature, art, dreams, etc.
Therefore, in modernity New Symbolisms (i.e., heavenly realm) will be required by religions for the spiritual progress of the advanced thinking minds.
What is the symbolic meaning of the attire in this video.
A figure clothed in white between two men. 🤷♂(But also giving "Between two ferns" vibes.)
25:15 I don't quite understand - yes Moses saw God's back in Exodus but in Numbers and Deuteronomy it says he spoke to God face to face and mouth to mouth. Even the entire people at Sinai are said to have done so briefly. Is this really different?
🦅
I did not notice a catholic gate into the eternal Kingdom?
What gate will you enter by?
What standard of tribe do you live by, what banner did you camp ⛺️ in while entering the land He promised our fathers?
Many Rings of Power:
Thorns around Heart,
tames the Tempest,
keeps Emotions in Control,
must be placed on by the self,
proves control and mastery.
Noose between Heart and Brain,
Observes the thoughts and feelings that travel to mouth,
ensures Truth is Spoken,
can be placed others or self,
best if by the self,
self control.
Crown on Head,
connects the human external viewing to the Divine,
must be earned and gifted,
never taken.
Halo is like an antenna,
also indicator and filter from top to bottom,
protects the top from the bottom,
Angels can have multiple halos and multiple wings,
earned and gifted,
never taken.
41:45 👍🏻
*Glory be to God*
The Transfiguration Icon is the Messianic Mandala par excellence. The 'Tabor' Heb. Centre/Navel is the God man Christ. Sinai/Revelation His Right Hand. Carmel/Renewal His Left. The two Prophets cap these mountains of meaning. The three Apostles refract from Jesus to John Elijah to Peter Moses to Jacob/James. It is the personified illustrative equivalent to the Magen/Shield of David (Star).
Just saw this today and the transfiguration is the Daily Reading today 😳
@38:50 "His garments are part of the person of Christ, is that what you are saying?" Is the cross?
Any paraphernalia of the Lord, during His pastimes on earth, becomes transcendental and is no longer considered material. Same as any item we use to worship and glorify the Lord. These become imbued with the Holy Spirit and are non-different from His form as the body of Christ.
39:40 God doesn't reveal to Moses exactly how to build the tent of meeting- Betzalel has a deeper vision of it having the skills to craft and carve it... Important nuance
What’s the symbolic meaning of the clothing colors they are wearing?
For a moment I thought Jonathan was a guest on "Between Two Ferns" with Zach Galifianakis
Is there any youtuber that talks about similar subjects as Jonathan and is vaguely on par with him and his understanding?
I know Jonathan is almost shocked by her questions
Like she’s stuck in materialism and even though she’s Catholic she talks as if it is not real and is pointing to something else? But it led to an interesting interview!
Build not idols. Worship no other God but the true living God. Blessings
this setup looks an awful lot like "Between Two Ferns with Zach Galifianakis". I keep expecting it to get awkward or for someone to start dissing someone else in a passive-aggressive way.
28:06 or it's the removing of *one* shoe per the yibbum ceremony....
I’m not sure I follow you’re saying about transfiguration being anti-symbolic.
The face of the incarnate Christ is the thing that is shining, it is through the symbol that the light is revealed. Do we not also believe in the real presence of divinity in the body and blood of Christ even though we also believes it’s a symbol?
Yes and also it's not that it's because it's not a symbol that they can't build a tent around 'it.' HOW CAN YOU PUT A BOUNDARY AROUND THE BOUNDLESS LORD???
I kept waiting for them to get to this point, the Lord Himself cannot be contained in any structure, even the thought or mention of it is, in a sense, blaspheming the Lord by thinking you can cover or control His Effulgence!
I'll try to answer as best I can. They don't mean anti- as in "opposed to" but simply as "not" the symbol. The preposition αντι (anti) in Greek can also mean the substitution or replacement of one thing with another. The symbols point to Christ, but Christ and the symbol are not identical. The Eucharist is not a symbol. It IS Christ. The symbols are therefore replaced by the Eucharist itself now that Christ is revealed to us in all His glory. All of the symbols of the Eucharist that appear throughout Holy Scripture point to Christ. Similarly, the Ark, the Burning Bush and the Tabernacle are symbols of the Theotokos (the Tabernacle contained the Shekinah, the Bush 'contained' the fire without being consumed, and the Theotokos contained Christ), but they are not the Theotokos. The Theotokos is she who the symbols foreshadowed and pointed to, just as the symbols of Christ foreshadowed and pointed to Him. I can only speak from an Orthodox perspective, but typology plays an extremely important role in our theology. If you really want to gain a better understanding of what Aidan and Jonathan are alluding to, you should start there. In Orthodox typology, the antitype isn't necessarily in opposition to a type; it can also be the fulfilment or recapitulation of the types that point to it.
@@sixwings9820 then why isn't it called the prototype?
@@KunjesvariBecause those don’t mean the same thing.
@@bradleyperry1735 ok lol thanks. Guess I need to study Latin
“Purify the nous” is a false idea. The nous is inherently pure, untarnishable, incorruptible. You cannot purifying that which is always and already pure. The task is rather to remove all that obstructs and obscures one’s noetic perception.
Please elaborate. This strikes me as wrong, but I’m certainly open to correction.
@@bradleyperry1735 The nous can be likened to a spiritual “organ” which enables man to directly perceive God. This ability is inherent in man - it’s not something added and it’s not something which can be taken away or corrupted. It’s what we see in Eden before the fall.
However, what prevents man from directly perceiving God is the forgetfulness of who he really is brought about by his attachment to thoughts, perceptions, ideas, etc. Man gets lost on the level of thinking and doing. Because of this, man no longer sees clearly, “face to face,” but as “through a glass, darkly.”
Therefore, it’s not the nous which has become corrupted or darkened and needs purifying. What’s needed is the removal of the “dark glass” of the mind which has obstructed and obscured one’s noetic perception. For this, man must set aside all his false thoughts, perceptions, ideas, etc and return to the level of simply being who he always and already is. In this comes the return of man’s inherent ability for noetic perception.
I think what is meant by purifying it is to remove outside influence
Mountain? Temptation in the wilderness regarding name.
New name.
A CORPORATION through bankruptcy may transfigure with a New name.
❤️🔥 GALAHAD ERIDANUS ❤️🔥
Neato
I know which she liles more past like 15 aeconds!..starting alright :D
Are they saying noose? Like what you tie with a rope to hang somebody? What am I missing here? How is a noose relevant?
I believe it’s “nous” had to look it up myself, and from what I’ve researched it’s something on the lines of intellect and soul when used to talk in a religious manner… however I’m not exactly sure.
“Since you are God's dear children, you must try to be like him. Your life must be controlled by love, just as Christ loved us and gave his life for us as a sweet-smelling offering and sacrifice that pleases God. Since you are God's people, it is not right that any matters of sexual immorality or indecency or greed should even be mentioned among you. Nor is it fitting for you to use language which is obscene, profane, or vulgar. Rather you should give thanks to God. You may be sure that no one who is immoral, indecent, or greedy (for greed is a form of idolatry) will ever receive a share in the Kingdom of Christ and of God. Do not let anyone deceive you with foolish words; it is because of these very things that God's anger will come upon those who do not obey him. So have nothing at all to do with such people. You yourselves used to be in the darkness, but since you have become the Lord's people, you are in the light. So you must live like people who belong to the light, for it is the light that brings a rich harvest of every kind of goodness, righteousness, and truth. Try to learn what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the worthless things that people do, things that belong to the darkness. Instead, bring them out to the light. ( It is really too shameful even to talk about the things they do in secret.) And when all things are brought out to the light, then their true nature is clearly revealed; for anything that is clearly revealed becomes light. That is why it is said, “Wake up, sleeper, and rise from death, and Christ will shine on you.” So be careful how you live. Don't live like ignorant people, but like wise people. Make good use of every opportunity you have, because these are evil days.”
Ephesians 5:1-16
Something about this host REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Can't put my finger on what specifically, but there ya go.
Yeap
It's the voice.
I suspect she doesn't really believe in the God they are describing. At times I see she wants to. We can pray for her to increase her faith in the light if the Transfiguration.
41:20 I think Aidan just went too far when he described Christianity as panentheist. Nope. The creation being iconic is not the same thing as God BEING IN everything. Iconic is to reveal him, but is not him.
We must be careful lest we fall into Richard Rohr's heresy.
Google orthodox panentheism. It's a doctrine in the eastern church. You might not agree with it, but Aidan is drawing from his own tradition whether it triggers you or not.
@cesardude99 first, a thoughtful response is not being triggered.
Next, would you say that the Orthodox definition of panentheism differs from Rohr's use of it? If so, how?
@@PsychoBibleNot too familiar with Richard Rohr, but my guess is that the Orthodox have the Essence/energy distinction, which would make this possible without falling into heretical positions.
@everlastingphronema9700 yes, that seems to be a difference. Rohr uses panentheism in a way that is almost indistinguishable from pantheism. He claims that the creation of the world was the first incarnation of Christ, and therefore, all material things are manifestations of God. It takes it further than saying God is reflected in all of creation and thus creation is iconic or sacramental, but rather that God is literally in each thing. For example, Rohr dedicates his book, The Universal Christ, to his dog, whom he describes as being God for him.
Ephesians 4:6
Noose?
To those posting all kinds of demeaning, critical thoughts without any context but rather a reflex to cast stones into the internet ether.
Why not just acknowledge you're angry and full of venomous thoughts that you don't know what to do with? Then use orthodox practices, like confession, fasting and the Jesus prayer to contend with them?
The End of Symbolism. 60 years later: "write John, about these things: beasts rising, trumpets, seals, vials and other symbols that might confuse the average reader..."
Red jeans 😲 now that's a symbol I thought was dead. I'm sure of it... that must be a westy thing. Gezus Shazza, it ain't the pouge, it's gutter black, love.
It's very British. I wore my red pants the day before the big day of the conference, and felt like I missed my chance to fit in. 🙃
@@Stevenmulraneythat's so funny. Have some great memories of hilarious friends loving their Red jeans too.
They're not jeans. Just trousers. I've known Aidan for many years and can't say I've ever seen him wear jeans. 😅
Some woman with unbearable vocal fry is teaching theology at Princeton?
Yikes...
I find Patricia's questions very strange. Is this real or just inventwd by man.
Does she think that anything we can perceive is NOT invented by man?
Does she think any other living being perceives the world like the human being?
Very strange - she can't think that God exists without man could she?
Do you think that God doesn't exist if Man doesn't?
Margarita behaves with words and body language like a first grade drama queen. Substantive thought or analysis seem to take a back seat when speaks.
She's translating for the normies and Sunday school teachers. ❤
This video appears to have triggered the whiny incel keyboard warriors
No offense, but this poor woman is clueless, she must have been so uncomfortable knowing she understood nothing, and so Ill equipped to speak intelligibly on the subject.
Just when I feel edgy listening to her, I am “relieved” when she makes way for the gems they have to share. Wonder if she could be coached into a less grating interview style…….
She looks at Jon to explain things 😂
set designer needs jonathan's help lol
Please pronounce nous correctly; it's not noose. 🤪
This guy is wearing the most obnoxious pants
Symbols are of the king-high priest self appointed god deities
Symbols have nothing to do with the true loving original creator whom gifted us love in our hearts this is why we are in likeness of the loving character of God we were asked not to bow down to images! ...
The Symbols were of the badseed bloodlines chosen and refer to the fallen ones whom followed in the narcissistic character of those that wanted glory power and control ...
All systems and organisation's the men of reknown the elect royal crown pharonic emperors kings queens princess princesses their bloodlines are the Principalities we are up against .. .
All churches are of the sons of man the divine light is the amen ra the the false light of alchemical magi - sciences
The transfiguration is the shapeshifting of those that put the human skin but were of the one that speaks of good but is not of good ... those that taught and told us we aren't worthy of gods love unless we follow their church or spiritual traditions ceremonies rituals aren't following in the likeness of the love given the love of God in our hearts is all that is of good ..when those that fell and appointed themselves above others they have no love they do not know the true love was given that love is within this is why we were asked to seek with all our hearts -please remember what love is and means and that it was the love that Satan rejected and it was Satan that is narcissistic in character all that is not of love is not of good ....
People have forgotten the love given and have believed the narcissistic founders of the ones that were born for the works glory riches power control the legions are the kingdoms that are of half truths but not the true love given ...
The anchor is the ORDERS the one foot on the sea-cee..the one foot on the Land...
Good - love - is nor of war fear jelousy nor of sacrifices which is murder - double edged sword and the double meanings of words- spell- ing is those that speak of good but are not...
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” (no partners, no trinity) - the highest commandment according to Jesus (but Paul made Jesus a partner of God)
2. “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (no idols or images. Paul brought the idol worship of Greeks into Jewish religion and made the cross ✝️ the idol to worship beneath God Almighty who commanded that you shall not make any images or idols and worship them).
*How* can Christ be the God of the Old Testament, if he isn't all knowing 🤷🏽♂️
Philippians 2:5-8 (NIV):
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death- even death on a cross!
@@Jordan18561nice 🔥
In heaven so after the resurrection he is all knowing
@@Jordan18561 Thank you. Notice in the very next verse. 9 Therefore God exalted him (Jesus ) to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name.
What does this passage mean to you?
@@nice9735 Have you got a Bible that backs up this claim?
You’re making yourself into a glorified idol carver I’m sure others have reasoned within themselves why they created such idols in times past as well.
No. He is not. Iconography is not idolatry. This has been dealt with thoroughly. Iconoclasm is a heresy.
@@bradleyperry1735 I could care less about what you label me or what any person or organization considers heresy the point and fact remains more often than not imagery is interpreted through one’s own facilities unless otherwise guided and when unguided far to many make of them whatever they desire or believe them to be this is confusion, God has given us has chosen his word to paint mental pictures in our minds lest we make golden calf’s or become as the Egyptians and other makers of idols icons etc whatever you may want to call them.
@@lemnisgate8809 This is all incoherent nonsense. I’m sorry.
@@bradleyperry1735 incoherent nonsense really. So let test this if you were to walk into a place and see images plaster all over the walls without anyone to explain to you their meaning from where would you draw your conclusion about said images? Now walk into that same place with no images but the written word of God is there or someone is presently reading it, which would you more likely to understand. I argue the word of God is sufficient enough, if you rely of childish things to gain some sort of understanding that’s on you but our goal is to more toward maturity not backward. One can and will survive without the other and that’s the word of God.
@@bradleyperry1735 you remind me of a certain occurrence recorded in acts “And the same time there arose no small stir about that way. For a certain man named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen; whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth. Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands: so that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.”
Acts 19:23-27 KJV
No replace Diana with your venerated images are you afraid your craft will come into disrepute is your ability to profit from your carved images more important than the word of God. I admire Johnathans incite concerning these images and their symbolism but Johnathan and his understanding of these things is far from the norm the average person has no idea what they mean and that alone should cause one to question the ethic of their use.
I have a very deep interesting symbolism that i need to show johnathan , can any one know how can i contact him through email ? Or anything ?
Nothing gives meaning where no meaning is. ²And truth needs no defense to make it true. ³Illusions have no witnesses and no effects. ⁴Who looks on them is but deceived. ⁵Forgiveness is the only function here, and serves to bring the joy this world denies to every aspect of God’s Son where sin was thought to rule. ⁶Perhaps you do not see the role forgiveness plays in ending death and all beliefs that rise from mists of guilt. ⁷Sins are beliefs that you impose between your brother and yourself. ⁸They limit you to time and place, and give a little space to you, another little space to him. ⁹This separating off is symbolized, in your perception, by a body which is clearly separate and a thing apart. ¹⁰Yet what this symbol represents is but your wish to _be_ apart and separate.
9. Forgiveness takes away what stands between your brother and yourself. ²It is the wish that you be joined with him, and not apart. ³We call it “wish” because it still conceives of other choices, and has not yet reached beyond the world of choice entirely. ⁴Yet is this wish in line with Heaven’s state, and not in opposition to God’s Will. ⁵Although it falls far short of giving you your full inheritance, it does remove the obstacles that you have placed between the Heaven where you are, and recognition of where and what you are. ⁶Facts are unchanged. ⁷Yet facts can be denied and thus unknown, though they were known before they were denied.
10. Salvation, perfect and complete, asks but a little wish that what is true be true; a little willingness to overlook what is not there; a little sigh that speaks for Heaven as a preference to this world that death and desolation seem to rule. ²In joyous answer will creation rise within you, to replace the world you see with Heaven, wholly perfect and complete. ³What is forgiveness but a willingness that truth be true? ⁴What can remain unhealed and broken from a unity which holds all things within itself? ⁵There is no sin. ⁶And every miracle is possible the instant that the Son of God perceives his wishes and the Will of God are one.
A Course In Miracles
(Jesus)
People are better served by sticking to the Bible