Sometimes, it's hard to discern if our thoughts and feelings are rightly oriented towards the end for which we are created. I suggest looking up St. Ignatius Loyola's Discernment of Spirits for a practical guide. It fits really well with what this video is describing.
Seconded. This Little Corner has so many good folk. I loved your talk about magnanimity. Somehow your mentioning of discernment made it pop into my head.
On one hand it’s wonderful to gain knowledge and insight like this, on the other hand it makes you terrified of what you don’t know that you are doing every day…
Eliphaz tells Job of a Spirit that stealthily gave him secret words about God’s character (J 4:12). These ideas later emerge in the dialogues of the three friends (e.g, J 25). Job replies “With whose help have you uttered words, and whose breath has come out from you?” (J 26:4). It struck me as a biblical example of what you are saying. An example of how powers and principalities are at work on our thoughts each day. Thanks for your work, and may God bless you and your family.
Thank you for posting this! I revisited those Scriptures with renewed insight! I had not caught those very important details! (Job is a lot to take in). I highlighted them to stay alert to those links!
It seems more natural to me, to say that I judge the pen and whether something should be a part of it based on my preconception of the category of pen which is ultimately based on the purpose of pen. Saying that the pen itself is the judge is strange. I suppose it makes more sense when you consider a founder/leader/principality of a group judging what should be considered a part of the group and what should be cast out. And we participate in that by predicting what the head would have to say about it or by participating in the principality ourselves. I'll have to think about this.
A pen is a very human pattern, a human-invented thing, and maybe the beyond-human aspect is clearer if you take an example from Nature, like wing, or seed. In a way, the pattern is more a function than a material shape, and that function goes on whether you are present, or not.
Matthew 26 (ESV) 51 And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant[a] of the high priest and cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?” In layers: In general, a Declaration/Reminder of His Divine Power. In the context of this exact moment, a Call to focus on God's Will not man's. A similar, earlier passage when Jesus was discussing with His Disciples what Had to Happen / God's Will / The Eternal Plan: Matthew 16:22-23 22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.” 23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”
Wanted to add this Scripture where Lord did send hosts of heaven to battle on behalf of His Purposes: 2 Kings 6 15 When the servant of the man of God rose early in the morning and went out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was all around the city. And the servant said, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?” 16 He said, “Do not be afraid, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17 Then Elisha prayed and said, “O Lord, please open his eyes that he may see.” So the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 18 And when the Syrians came down against him, Elisha prayed to the Lord and said, “Please strike this people with blindness.” So he struck them with blindness in accordance with the prayer of Elisha
Everything originates from the conceptual realm? Plato's Theory of Forms. God is the concept at the peak of the hierarchy? The form of the good? Physical reality was born out of the conceptual realm, God and the lesser concepts created the physical realm? God/Jesus is the concept of truth? God is the immaterial concept of truth and Jesus is the physical incarnation of truth? "The word made flesh?" Reality is the physical manifestation of the will of the invisible immaterial conceptual God? Reality is God made flesh? /Reality is Jesus Christ? Thinking out loud. "Physical manifestation of conceptual truth"
What does he mean when he says categories are less neutral and less active? In terms of neutrality I assume he speaks about the judgement that occurs. But how are ideas and thoughts neutral in comparison to categories? We certainly Judge whether the thoughts or ideas are appropriate to have but I suppose you can't really say they Judge in themselves. And in terms of activity I'm thinking that he means that categories are active by judging subcategories but thoughts and ideas are active in a different way by trying to take over whatever level they inhabit (level of a person or a group)
Ok... but are they people? 'Cause the angels in the Bible are people. They are agent intelligences, and you can talk to them. It's not so much the category doing the judging as it is Adam (Gen. 2:19). The category doesn't really have the agency that you metaphorically give it. What about the Principalities?
Here's my understanding: Demons tempt us. Including tempting others to sin against us. Especially really traumatic sin committed against us by others, and sin strongholds that we develop by repeated engagement of particular sins over time....Lord Described this to me as demonic altars being constructed. And when we engage in this sins, that is actually worship at those alters. (think about his the pagan temples always involved cannibalism, orgies, child sacrifice, all manner of sin and defilement) And when a region has more and more demonic structures being built, that strengthens the authority of the demonic principalities in that region. So it's kind of a cycle. We really need to get instruction out about temptation. Recognizing when a thought is actually a temptation from a demon, and how to reject that thought and not just take it on as if it's your thought. Reject that thought AND declare your agreement with The Word in whatever area the temptation was in. THAT is rebuking the devil so he will flee! Just like Jesus Showed us!
Every time I listen to Jonathan‘s take on certain conceptual ideas, I find myself saying, “That was a very long & confusing way of saying ……God represents both positive and negative consequences in reality. And you know if your actions are good or bad based on realities feedback to your personal actions. Therefore, you must align your actions to reality or else reality aka God will hit you over the head with negative consequences.
The same way Christ will be judging us? As He had become a NEW MAN and we should to fit to this particular "category"? Before that He couldnt judge us?
If you're going to talk about Logismoi and Logismos, be more direct in your terminology and definitions. These concepts, where we can find them in the bible, the stages of spiritual attack, the nous, the faculties, nepsis, etc... Isn't something to dance around with. This subject does not need to be "brought down" to the regular folk. It's completely straightforward. You sound New Age and are libel top send people down that path talking this way.
this is hermeticism viewed through a christian lens. law of mentalism, law of correspondence, law of rhythm are being expressed here. as above so below, as within so without.
“Idea” = a thought or suggestion as to a possible course of action. Now check this out... “The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, That they are vanity.” Psalm 94:11 KJV
A Temptation is a Glimpse into a Demonic desire from a higher realm, don't partner with the Demon to bring it down to a lower level. Submit to a higher Realm Being: God.
Sometimes, it's hard to discern if our thoughts and feelings are rightly oriented towards the end for which we are created. I suggest looking up St. Ignatius Loyola's Discernment of Spirits for a practical guide. It fits really well with what this video is describing.
Thank you for this recommendation 🙏
Seconded. This Little Corner has so many good folk. I loved your talk about magnanimity. Somehow your mentioning of discernment made it pop into my head.
“The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, That they are vanity.”
Psalm 94:11 KJV
The isomorphism of the soul and the cosmos. Something we (post-)moderns have unfortunately forgotten about!
On one hand it’s wonderful to gain knowledge and insight like this, on the other hand it makes you terrified of what you don’t know that you are doing every day…
Thank you Jonathan. This is one of the best explanations of our thoughts I have seen.
Totally agree with you
Eliphaz tells Job of a Spirit that stealthily gave him secret words about God’s character (J 4:12). These ideas later emerge in the dialogues of the three friends (e.g, J 25). Job replies “With whose help have you uttered words, and whose breath has come out from you?” (J 26:4). It struck me as a biblical example of what you are saying. An example of how powers and principalities are at work on our thoughts each day. Thanks for your work, and may God bless you and your family.
Thank you for posting this! I revisited those Scriptures with renewed insight! I had not caught those very important details! (Job is a lot to take in). I highlighted them to stay alert to those links!
It's amazing how well you relate this
I would love to hear more on this subject. Fascinating.
I like how you put things.
It seems more natural to me, to say that I judge the pen and whether something should be a part of it based on my preconception of the category of pen which is ultimately based on the purpose of pen. Saying that the pen itself is the judge is strange.
I suppose it makes more sense when you consider a founder/leader/principality of a group judging what should be considered a part of the group and what should be cast out. And we participate in that by predicting what the head would have to say about it or by participating in the principality ourselves.
I'll have to think about this.
A pen is a very human pattern, a human-invented thing, and maybe the beyond-human aspect is clearer if you take an example from Nature, like wing, or seed. In a way, the pattern is more a function than a material shape, and that function goes on whether you are present, or not.
the pen pre-exists in nature as potential
What did Christ mean when he said he could call legions of angels?
Good question....because I'm not exactly sure either. Lol
That the principalities of reality abide by his rule (since he is the eternal co-creator of that very reality)
Matthew 26 (ESV)
51 And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant[a] of the high priest and cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?”
In layers: In general, a Declaration/Reminder of His Divine Power.
In the context of this exact moment, a Call to focus on God's Will not man's.
A similar, earlier passage when Jesus was discussing with His Disciples what Had to Happen / God's Will / The Eternal Plan:
Matthew 16:22-23
22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.” 23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”
Wanted to add this Scripture where Lord did send hosts of heaven to battle on behalf of His Purposes:
2 Kings 6
15 When the servant of the man of God rose early in the morning and went out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was all around the city. And the servant said, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?” 16 He said, “Do not be afraid, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17 Then Elisha prayed and said, “O Lord, please open his eyes that he may see.” So the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 18 And when the Syrians came down against him, Elisha prayed to the Lord and said, “Please strike this people with blindness.” So he struck them with blindness in accordance with the prayer of Elisha
A more general way to put the pen illustration: all things that represent a specific form, require their function to match
Everything originates from the conceptual realm? Plato's Theory of Forms.
God is the concept at the peak of the hierarchy? The form of the good?
Physical reality was born out of the conceptual realm, God and the lesser concepts created the physical realm?
God/Jesus is the concept of truth?
God is the immaterial concept of truth and Jesus is the physical incarnation of truth?
"The word made flesh?"
Reality is the physical manifestation of the will of the invisible immaterial conceptual God?
Reality is God made flesh? /Reality is Jesus Christ?
Thinking out loud.
"Physical manifestation of conceptual truth"
Awesome 👍🏾
What does he mean when he says categories are less neutral and less active?
In terms of neutrality I assume he speaks about the judgement that occurs. But how are ideas and thoughts neutral in comparison to categories? We certainly Judge whether the thoughts or ideas are appropriate to have but I suppose you can't really say they Judge in themselves.
And in terms of activity I'm thinking that he means that categories are active by judging subcategories but thoughts and ideas are active in a different way by trying to take over whatever level they inhabit (level of a person or a group)
Ok... but are they people?
'Cause the angels in the Bible are people. They are agent intelligences, and you can talk to them.
It's not so much the category doing the judging as it is Adam (Gen. 2:19). The category doesn't really have the agency that you metaphorically give it. What about the Principalities?
All the Bible are symbolic stories describing what cannot be shown linearly, hence « Symbolic World »
You're saying it's both a top-down and a bottom-up relationship when it comes to temptations and demons, but which one is prevalent?
Here's my understanding:
Demons tempt us. Including tempting others to sin against us.
Especially really traumatic sin committed against us by others, and sin strongholds that we develop by repeated engagement of particular sins over time....Lord Described this to me as demonic altars being constructed.
And when we engage in this sins, that is actually worship at those alters. (think about his the pagan temples always involved cannibalism, orgies, child sacrifice, all manner of sin and defilement)
And when a region has more and more demonic structures being built, that strengthens the authority of the demonic principalities in that region.
So it's kind of a cycle.
We really need to get instruction out about temptation. Recognizing when a thought is actually a temptation from a demon, and how to reject that thought and not just take it on as if it's your thought. Reject that thought AND declare your agreement with The Word in whatever area the temptation was in.
THAT is rebuking the devil so he will flee! Just like Jesus Showed us!
Every time I listen to Jonathan‘s take on certain conceptual ideas, I find myself saying, “That was a very long & confusing way of saying ……God represents both positive and negative consequences in reality. And you know if your actions are good or bad based on realities feedback to your personal actions. Therefore, you must align your actions to reality or else reality aka God will hit you over the head with negative consequences.
I can hear a man in the street and feel a type of way about what he say....but how his words affect my soul? It's something like that...
The same way Christ will be judging us? As He had become a NEW MAN and we should to fit to this particular "category"? Before that He couldnt judge us?
If you're going to talk about Logismoi and Logismos, be more direct in your terminology and definitions. These concepts, where we can find them in the bible, the stages of spiritual attack, the nous, the faculties, nepsis, etc... Isn't something to dance around with. This subject does not need to be "brought down" to the regular folk. It's completely straightforward. You sound New Age and are libel top send people down that path talking this way.
this is hermeticism viewed through a christian lens. law of mentalism, law of correspondence, law of rhythm are being expressed here.
as above so below, as within so without.
Idea ....idol ... idolatry , and people will kill and die for it .
“Idea” = a thought or suggestion as to a possible course of action.
Now check this out...
“The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, That they are vanity.”
Psalm 94:11 KJV
A Temptation is a Glimpse into a Demonic desire from a higher realm, don't partner with the Demon to bring it down to a lower level. Submit to a higher Realm Being: God.
First!
At the very least, the thumbnail image for this video is pagan
Or blasphemous if you wanted to put it bluntly. I love Jonathan but it's a very unfortunate picture indeed
Why?
@@Logosfollower Divine woman figure, pretty common new age image in general…
@@jakeschwartz2514 well I don’t know what that is to me it just looks like an abstract image of a woman