You said Protoss looks like a pretty strong race, just not quite as good as Terran or Zerg. I am not sure whether it is lack of understanding of the words or just general lack of intelligence and mental training but that sentence for sure makes no sense.
Just published the balance test branch of the Advanced Unit Tester to include these changes so everyone can easily test them. There's both an extension mod and an arcade map version.
the true power of mothership is not her unit-stat, it is her power to make my FPS dropping to zero for a few second ! now protoss can manually control this 'ability' !
Broodlings from a hatcheries should not be affected by the broodlord change. It's written in the yellow bow: "Test Mod TODO: Make this not affect Broodlings from building deaths"
@@HibiscusOrchid i wonder if that'll actually work. They have a lower CD on their attack, but their damage point (the stat that dictates how quickly damage happens after an attack) wasn't changed. Marines have a super low damage point, which is why they're as good at stutter stepping as they are.
@@HibiscusOrchid Cyclones don't need stutter-stepping in the first place, since they still attack while moving. So they're faster moving, faster attacking, more damaging, anti-armor marines that can attack while moving, have a speed upgrade that makes them almost as fast as base zerglings on creep, and have a longer attack range. JFC WHAT IS THIS.
Y'know what would be an absolutely wild change? give Widowmines an option to hold fire so if you are super map aware you can hold their attack to get more value out of them, but also you can be ending up just losing mines w/o a fight if you aren't paying attention.
Balance: Our goal is to make Protoss more able to fight Terran mid-late game armies without solely relying on Disruptors Protoss: Ok, how? Balance: Disruptors are now 4 supply Protoss: How does this help us fight Terran mid-late armies? Balance: No, you misunderstood. Now you can't solely rely on Disruptors.
Balance: It's okay, Motherships are now cheaper! Protoss: Oh cool maybe we will be able to use them now! Balance: Sure, as long as you weren't hoping to use them for more than 10 seconds every minute.
A Mothership is similarly powerful to a Carrier on raw stats. Being able to immediately get a 250/250 carrier on your Nexus as soon as your Fleet Beacon finishes sounds very strong. Means you don't need as many Stargates initially to get production pumping.
im all for the protoss changes I mean look at all the pro matches its 95% TvZ there are hardly any protoss matches so if this update makes them come back and we get more variety of all 3 races great!
Infestors not being able to kill marines? If Marines have medivacs it takes 4-5 fungals already to do serious damage to them and any decent splits negate this anyway.. Reduction to 20 damage wasn't necessary. How they managed to have literally NO ability when spawned, until this patch is amazing to me.
You arent supposed to kill a bio army with 2 fungals wtf. Do the math dude you cant even pick up into medivacs, its such a cheesy ability and makes it so that banes annihilate everything.
A Protoss unit with 1 base armor benefits more from an additional point of armor than an additional point of shield, especially against Marines/lings or other small but fast attackers. That said, as you pointed out Shield upgrade applies to all units, so I am not sure on why the cost should go down when it applies to EVERYTHING and it does regen unlike the health of Protoss units, so any surviving unit or one hugging a shield battery gets more mileage out of it long term.
its simple. statistics show protoss player dont get shield upgrades. therefore shiled upgrades must be too expensive. so they have to be cheaper. it cant possibly be the case that protoss players just dont get an upgrade that is actually useful to them, because theyve been playing that way since 1999 and cant adapt.
@@TheSuperappelflap or could it possibly mean that getting attack and armor upgrades is better in the early to mid gamein 99% of cases and investing into shield early leaves you with a much weaker early game army. I wonder which one it is
I haven't played in a very long time so I don't want to overstep my bounds of knowledge, but shields always felt as though they melted immediately before getting to armour, and stalkers would frequently blink as their shields broke. It's always felt as though shields are useful on stalkers, carriers and buildings and little else, and just melt way too quickly on everything else to even matter. This is coming from a bio terran player though, so I'm not sure what it's like in other matchups or even in modern SC2, but it's always felt as though shield upgrades were pointless.
Surely it has nothing to do with the fact that ghosts can erase all shields in the click of a button and render the upgrade useless, whereas the attack and armour upgrades will always be useful.@@TheSuperappelflap
There is no protoss unit with 1 base shield, just 1 base hp armor, like zealots. As game go, other races are able to get damage upgrades making shields weaker over time. with +3 armor on protoss only applies to hp, so out of 80 hp + 80 sheilds a stalker has addition armor only to 80 hp, half of their total hp, while other races have +3 armor to whole unit hp.
I wish they'd just buff everything significantly. What makes Brood War so good is that basically every unit is overpowered. It ironically balances everything out.
Speaking of which, I'd like to see jumping lings and banes in multi, as well as that ultralisk with the spine crawlers on its head, and an upgrade to turn scvs into combat units
@@zer0nixwhile we are at it lets double the immortal barrier hp and make it last 10 seconds and give immortals the shadow cannon, carriers repair drones, void rays extra range while charged, and zealots whirlwind if everything is op then nothing is yes?
Love the changes, I think it's healthy to shake up the meta now and then to keep the game from going stale. Plus Protoss needs a slight buff. All the changes seem fine, but the mothership cloaking not being a passive anymore kinda takes away what made it unique, you know, like the Arbiter from SC:BW. It's a staple protoss mechanic, sad to see it only be a 10 second ability.
They should give Tempest the ability to turret track. Basically it lets them face their target and fly backwards, they can't fire while moving, but they stop and fire and start moving again fast. It's a better less derpy looking version of the acceleration increase.
@@NerdGlassGamingPA Not quite, bc Cyclones shot and move at the same time. More like Immortals or unsieged tanks or collossi. They can't fire and move at the same time, but they always face their target and don't have to turn to fire.
Always felt Banshees should, not for balance but cuz they look dumb flipping direction when kiting, isnt that design of propulsion meant to be omni directional?
@@MerlynMusicman Oh yeah most air units could have this change honestly and they'd look a lot better, but I feel like tempest especially need it given this accelleration change, bc yeah they're awful to micro.
Marc with these mine and cyclone buffs please consider bringing back the cyclone-widowmine to GM challenge (or just add it as challenge on uthermal2) now that it seems more viable against general troops and cyclones are cheaper. Loved the original series, and hope everyone has fun playing on the new patch!!!
I do think the raven disable upgrade does buff those weirdos that rush to blink BC in your main in TvT. Disabling the BC was the main tool to kill the first BC to stop the weirdo from snowballing.
@@SolomonMagnus819 you can now get more than twice as many Cyclones so this doesn't mean you're actually gonna die to BC rushes plus the IM hasn't been removed completely, it's just delayed. probably it's not delayed critically much and you still can disable a BC when it's not too late.
@@Necrocidal I don't know how you can buff vikings without causing issues in other matchups. They're too valuable in late game PvZ against broods (even more so now) and carriers. Maybe another cheap upgrade that causes additional damage to mech units? A flat damage bonus to mech air?
These changes finally put a nail in the coffin of the zerg cabal memes i hope. T receives fake nerfs that do nothing but pretend to do. Snipe still 2-shots lurkers, still 2-shots broods, it was never really used vs roaches bc those are cheap AF anyway, still 1-shots hydras, ravagers, vipers, which would not die anymore without the +40 to psionic, which is hilarious as well because it ONLY affects queens and vipers really (and infestors, but those are squishy AF anyway). If they did less damage vs queens, that would at least have been somewhat decent, but like this it's absolutely minor, does really only matter vs broods if T gets only one shot off and waits a bit, but not too long and zerg doesn't transfuse. EMP radius back to what it was 2 patches ago, it being the catch-all tool vs protoss back then and still being it now. Raven fake nerf, by the time you are across the map, the upgrade is finished, making it effectively just take 50 more gas instead of research time really. Widow mine drops not nerfed at all, although those are insanely annoying in lower leagues and really bad game design. Don't look at the minimap for 2-3 sec and lose 12-14 probes or drones - of course not affecting T, bc why would it. Infestor fungal damage nerf is huge. Wtf, 33% less damage, now really doesn't do very much vs bio anymore. Can't 2-shot neither drones nor SCVs anymore. Almost useless vs interceptors, although it wasn't used as often there, had potential though. Is this only so that T can't be surprised by an early infestor and lose their marines to 2 fungals? For real? Broods now even less dps, their strength way never DPS but making armies have problems fighting them, especially T if they don't unsiege tanks. In direct fights now worse, better at clumping and long-range poking, meh. Ovie drop buff does almost nothing. Ultra change a farce. Banes were oppressive, that's true. Hydra change seems good to me, hydras are actually not bad units. Finally: Mothership. While the cloaking field was its bread and butter, the recall always was super cheap and just bad design. Have always at least 8+ corruptors hover near your base as 16 dead supply just to prevent a mothership calling in the entire protoss air fleet just to recall them out again after killing half your base is nearly as stupid as having 3-4 BCs just fly towards outer zerg/protoss bases, kill half a mineral line, yamato the base 4x and then TP out again, waiting for the next cooldown. Why would you even put more focus on that with the mothership now? How is having to sneak by a single unit to get ALL your units in the back of the enemy WITHOUT DANGER as long as you have nexus recall ready EVER good game design? Vs worse players, that can be just game over. All the while cloaking for 10 sec, which is about as long as a scan lasts. This is a joke. I don't understand what was the thought process behind this. From a fun perspective, the problematic elements have stayed for T and a bit for P while Z was just nerfed. All the while T always crying about other races when they can just mass about any T3 unit requiring good counterplay to even break even. This was clearly heavily influenced by T players and very egoistically so.
I like the changes, hopefully it will add some fresh gameplay and keep things interesting. Tournament is coming up shortly, Harstem mentioned it in his patch review.
Tried the cyclone and I have to say that lock-on kiting is much harder now. For example, to lock on to a hydra you'll need to get into range of 6 vs 7 for the hydra so you'll take a lot of damage. However if you move past 9 the lock-on disconnects and have to get back into 6 range to relock-on taking damage. So you have to stay in the sweet spot of between 7-9 range for the lock-on to work which is really difficult to do. But it does work well against melee units like Zerglings and Zealots. With the health, armor, damage reduction they cant trade efficiently in a head on fight. So yeah, as it currently is I'll be sticking to bio. It's only use case would be to harass zerglings in early game instead of the hellion. And once range units comes it then just dump it.
Yeah, I was think of this against P. I guess forces more blink stalker to break the lock? None of the gateway units are going to be able to do dick about it. I wonder if the speed is low enough b4 upgrade for immortal to actually fight a bit?
Very interesting and inspiring patch. Banes definitely needed nerfed. The cyclone without a tech lab I think is fucked up, but weakening them with reduced speed til upgrade, lowering hp, and the rest seems like a fair tradeoff; obviously a different kind of unit now like the mothership. Mothership changes have me thinking a lot. 250/250 at 6psi and reduced bt seems like a fair interchange with cloak being a 10s ability. The mothership was invented in wol through black hole. It's needed an update (like banes) since d1 of wol. Medvacs getting buffed seemed unnecessary, but at least its an upgrade required to benefit from it. Fungal getting nerfed but no more pathogen glands needed is interesting. Tempest accel is going to annihilate carrs/BC more now in teams. Brood lord speed with weaker broodlings is interesting too. The overlord thing truly reminds me of reviving the bw zerg experience. All of these seem well thought out. Love seeing SC2 get tended to. STARCRAFT FOREVER!
I like to think the in-universe explanations for balance changes are the large-scale economic requirements of a sector wide war. Sure it doesn’t make sense on a small scale to make a unit weaker, but when you consider the enormous supply chains required to sustain total war, sometimes it makes sense.
27:38 weird to say this. Terrans are kind of _uniquely_ good at All-Ins because they can pull the boys and not miss out on as much eco as another race would if they did the same due to MULEs. Terrans also uniquely can build buildings very close to their opponents with no real upkeep such as creep or pylons needed and Barracks build faster than something like a Hatchery. :D
Eric and serral at one point used the queen drop creep spread tactic and it was legit. Maybe Ultras can burrow to dodge snipe now. Dark sometimes did that with roaches. It forces the preemptive scan because if you lose vision even for a second, it's cancelled.
Balance team: "Guys the players are complaining Protoss isnt viable, what should we do? Do we need to rework warpgate mechanics?" Also balance team: "Get the clown makeup. We're nerfing the 'ruptor. And redesign the cyclone, no one was complaining about it."
@@isaacsteele7986 if zerg players actually started using nydus to reinforce you would have a point, but they only use it for cheesy allins or late game harassment
@@isaacsteele7986 Fly a warp prism in and start warping in units takes about 5-6 sec, 1-2 to fly it in, 4 to warp. Nydus takes 15-16 sec (14 growing, 1-2 for overlord to fly in) to build, 0.5 sec for each unit to unload, so 8 zerglings takes already the 4 sec that warp prism can warp in 8 zealots (although 8 lurkers also take that long), nydus is attackable during the growing period, nydus costs 75/75 each, nydus is a ground unit, so ANY unit can attack it and it can't try to hide behind buildings like the warp prism. Marauders and tanks both can't target warp prisms, against a nydus a single tank is enough to take it out before it emerges. Really not in the least comparable and that's the reason why they're not used often and not at all for reinforcement bc usually zerg cannot hold a position so the nyduses die too frequently.
I think it's hard to tell where the cyclone is gonna land. Most changes i like though, ghost nerf really is needed, changes to disruptors, lurker, mines sounds good too, hopefully make them a little easier to play against. The infestor and raven changes are good I think. Mothership and immortal and medivac changes are a bit sketchy though, they are already super strong units. The discussion on shield upgrades is interesting. Remember it affects ground, air and buildings. And shields regens and can be in play multiple times, unlike base HP armour for protoss, This could be big for blink stalkers and shield battery effectiveness in particular. Shield battery/cannon combo too. Things that are very strong already, especially early on. I think all in all these changes are to to good for protoss, while not really solving the problem of lacking pre-deathball consistency.
The Cyclone change has me a bit nervous. Huge nerfs to range and damage, and swapping out their cardboard plating for construction paper. I feel they might just be kind of useless now and see even less play than they already do.
They used to require you to make a lot of factories and by then roach mass would just basically Trade enough before u can snowball to good levels of mech, now you can have 2 reactor'd factories, and a techlab factory and produce MORE cyclones, while making a siege tank on the other factory to support them, they also have half the gas cost.
They’re currently way overtuned once they get their speed upgrade. They still have 9 max-range after they lock on. They beat stalkers in upfront fights AND can chase blink stalkers, AND blink stalkers can’t chase them
I think being able to spam them is a good trade off to the nerfs they’ve received. It might even make them useful TvZ late game… right now they’re terrible once BL and even ultras hit the field.
So let me get this straight - The immortal on the new patch, when hit by an EMP, only activates the barrier? But before it also was stripped of shields?
Without banelings, zerg doesn't have ground splash for the first two tiers. They are almost never cost effective. Zerg can't fight planetaries. And with the exception of friendly fire, is in every single way inferior to an unupgraded widow mine.
Zerg isn't cost effective race in the first place. Against planetaries the damage didn't change. So your points missed the mark. Baneling nerf was expected but they probably went too far with hp nerf at least for a single patch. HP change is something that affects them in combat the most from this patch.
@@Skorpyotnt The reason they got the HP buff in the first place was because they weren't countering marines. Now with the fungal nerf as well, like, g'luck. I don't see any nerfs to widow mines, hellions, disruptors, oracles, marines or liberators because they kill workers too easily... If only there were a counter to banelings that could somehow wall them off from entering a mineral line instead of rolling out changes aimed at punishing zerg for ever attacking workers. 🙄 The response regarding planetaries was because Uthermal doesn't like banelings versus planetaries. As though taking that trade wasn't a *massive* Terran cost efficiency that simply wins them the game if done more than about twice.
Why are Voids now fast while using Prismatic... wasn't the slowdown supposed to be the tradeoff for being super powerful during the prismatic?? I really don't understand that change.
Previously void rays would move slower in bigbeam with the upgrade than bigbeam without the upgrade. (because blizzard forgot to change the set speed number in one of their previous patches. Bigbeam sets the speed rather than having the beam be a % reduction)
Yea it doesn’t mean prismatic speeds it up. It means the slowdown is reduced accordingly for voids with the flux vanes upgrade, so they will move faster with flux vanes in both states compared to without flux. Just a bug fix.
@@Alejandro-fm5wo Looking at the patch notes, it explains that it should have been high 2's (instead of the bug which made it 2.5 ish) but the patch now changes it to mid 3's? Which seems to imply it's still much higher? Not sure I get it.
@@MKu64 it change ONLY if you research Flux Vane, which buff the regular VR speed from 3.8 to 4.6. So when the Alignment is activated, the speed is increase from 2.88 to 3.49 WITH Flux Vane upgraded.
They should try some bold stuff like giving Protoss Arbiters, Dragoons and moving Warpgate to a final endgame tier upgrade, and making Protoss gateway stuff actually tough. Replace Disruptors with Reavers too while they're at it ;)
Can we also have the most needed change in SC2 history as part of this patch? It's just a name change, but fundamental: Engineering Bay -> Armory: Armory should be researching infantry upgrades! Armory -> Engineering Bay: eBay should be researching tech upgrades!
20:30 They clearly don't want to nerf the building broodlings, RIP buffing uThermal in challenges vs AI. Very promising patch and a fantastic summary. Not sure about another complete redesign of Cyclone, this unit is such a mess.
I havent played since LOTV was released and i finished that campaign. Planning to return to SC. Hows the meta overall? Last I played, terran was absolutely op.
Having your mothership abducted feels bad. Facing a mothership that you can't kill, even with large amounts of antiair, feels much worse. Abduct needs to exist as a counter. And hey, now with the cost change you only need to snipe 2 corruptors in the process to keep up on cost!
Would 'making abducts only 50% effective vs massive so you have to chain 2 abducts for the same effect' even achieve anythjng other than making it look less derp when it gets yoinked...
I would be ok with that if the mothership was immobile while using the new cloacking ability. Otherwise it would be too easy to defend it by putting a bunch of carriers and voidrays between it and the enemy army.
you cant take mothership with infestor, if u cant abduct too, how do you kill it as zerg? only fungal and mass overseer to make visible all army is not a solution. Mothership is already heavy unit... slow motion etc, is nice to make it more agile but not invincible.
Maybe Sentries could get an upgrade for Guardian Shield (possibly at the robotics support bay) that would let them cast it on a unit rather than around themselves. It would allow them to survive in the mid/late game instead of being targeted instantly at the start of a battle.
Thanks for the video. I didn't like some of the mother mother's changes: Less health and shield (500), makes her weaker than the battlecruiser (550). The reduced movement speed of the Time Warp ability and that Cloak Field is no longer passive, that's an iconic ability of this unit.
Terran is definitely the strongest race right now, every terran unit has a major weakness but also major strengths and they all cover eachothers weakness. In the early game of pvt, beating marine maruader tank is incredibly difficult because they all cover eachother so well and counter protoss hard
As a terran player, I agree. I climbed the ladder extremely quickly with a simple marine/marauder/medivac/siege tank timing attack push, not using drops and having poor micro. It's a protoss a-move deathball strat with one extra button to press (stim and siege vs just blink) and just feels stronger in general imho. I hate playing against tanks and I often don't really like using them much, as well. Maybe there could be some work done around them? Or other units could be changed to become similar to terran units (i.e., change adepts so they cover more weaknesses instead of just being a protoss version of the reaper that falls off immediately).
@@elliejohnson2786 For sure, I'm still learning in gold as protoss and I think I'm improving my strategy, but I find in the PvT matchup it can be difficult to get the units out to counter tanks while still having a force that can deal with a bio ball, and it feels like they can get their bio ball out so fast and ONE tank behind it can destroy you with it's really high range and damage output
The viper skill can simply be changed to, that hte viper cannot kill any building when its at one if its your own building, instead the building will naturally regen and it will simply consume that + 1 hp and gain energy more slowly, so using bio life regen and energy... but can't kill the building outright.. that would fix the problem... Something that could even be done in an editor. LIke Unit (viper) cannot destroyed allied/self (buildings) with skill (consume)
Im liking the trend of reducing the DPS of units while making them more cheaper/maneuverable. All or nothing units are super dumb. Im sort of amazed how the widow mine avoided this change as well... Make them 25/25 but reduce the damage + splash radius. Id also id think everyone would appreciate similar changes to the disruptor, the most all or nothing unit. Keep supply at 4 so they cant be spammed but reduce cost and make them faster. Then reduce damage so they cant one hit anything. Id prefer to remove the disruptor entirely so we can buff other units since i think its a terribly designed unit and im a protoss player...dreams can happen...
I think the immortal change isn't as buffing as it sounds. I think it just means when you EMP the immortal, the EMP will trigger the barrier first, then drain the barrier's health pool instead of draining the shield first then triggering the barrier.
It's significant in that it doubles the resources Terran has to spend to deal with the immortals in the mid-to-late game when using Ghosts. It's no longer "EMP then wait 2 seconds then engage with effectively 100 free damage vs the immortals" but requires either an additional EMP or to manually fight through the shields. It also helps Immortals avoid hull damage in the first place when their barriers activate, which makes drop micro more effective in the early game (as you chip the hull less) It might not be a BIG buff, but it's SOMETHING without radically changing the numbers of the immortal otherwise.
I´m really looking forward for those cheaper cyclones because I think we will see more mech, which leads to more different games but a faster moving (with upgrade), faster shooting and with more range, plus no more cooldown sounds a little bit scarry, but we will see.
EMP effectively deals 200 damage to immortals per cast now. It's so good that I've beaten mass immortal armies with mass thors multiple times just because i had few ghosts for EMP. That should be way harder to achieve after the patch, if possible at all.
But, wait... what about the colossus? you know, the very bugged unit that was the impetus for the recognition of needing another balance patch... Is it keeping the Extended Extended Thermal Lance??
damn, get ready for Hydra bane all ins from zerg after this. Early hydra and bane upgrades, that attack will hit quite a lot quicker than it usually does.
Anything that gets more ultra links on the field is good, those units are so fun to watch. They either carve through the enemy or die silly deaths because of unnecessary poking and prodding
as a terran metal leaguer, this is good for me. i started playing when cyclone does not require tech lab. it helps me vs protoss to hold early proxy robo/gate or early proxy stargate. for me at least i can survive the first 5 mins. good enough for a potato like me. on the flip side, the hydra buff looks too strong
All protoss units should be able to blink, or at the very least, all air toss should be able to blink. If a BC can teleport, it's only fair that a highly advanced unit such as a freakin tempest that can shoot till infinity and beyond but for some odd reason moves slower than a 110 year old man with a walker, should be allowed to blink. Let this slow azz unit be able to blink. As for interference matrix, the length of time should be proportional to the hit points of the targeted unit. A giant scary azz alien building with legs that shooter freaking lasers should not be allowed to be easily disabled for so long. It should require 3 ravens shooting it with interference matrices to disable it for a viable enough time.
Cyclone is Big Marine™ now, which is good because terran has needed a Big Marine™ ever since WoL where goliaths were no longer in multiplayer. I was hoping the Viking could be changed to fulfill Big Marine™ status, but this seems better. I definitely prefer this to the cruising little nuke boats that are the current cyclones. Maybe this will give them an excuse to finally nerf the marine itself.
I'd love to see those changes in live testing! But am I the only one that thinks the Mothership should just be replaced by the Arbiter. And also EMP and Interference Matrix should switch units? :)
That medivac upgrade is ridiculous, if you have a Collosus and it happens to target a marauder that's being healed it may as well be hit by Interference Matrix. Basically this is just a huge Marauder buff, remove marines from your comp and nothing dies, very short sighted change.
It's energy regeneration buff, not healing amount. Medivacs use energy to heal, they often run out of the energy in longer games then your army completely falls off. This just stops that happening. It does nothing to the rate of healing.
id like to say my thoughts on balance before seeing the notes, as a silver noob. When a game, especially an RTS, is balanced entirely around the professional scene, its unbalanced as all hell to the other 95% of the players. micro heavy units like reapers and mines almost never appear until high gold, and Zerg is regarded as incredibly difficult due to their minimum 300 APM requirement with queens and creep. Protoss may seem weak at high levels, but that is entirely because they are THE momentum faction and professionals/skilled players know how to stop that momentum. Below gold, even in gold, they are absurdly strong. Cannon rushing is a very popular strategy because of how few people prepare to counter it. in a Late game fight, protoss will nearly always win most fair engagements because players dont or cant micro like pros can. Its not even uncommon to see parties of toss players in 3v3 and 4v4 spam all carriers and win by sheer lagout, which is very frustrating. In honesty, ive long said the game needs a longer early game to encourage and reward scouting and micro heavy early units like reapers and adepts, currently it can be very hard to scout as its either very easy to wall off your base before 3 minutes or have troops on the ramp to shut it down, and you dont gain actual information until AFTER 3 minutes. an 8 worker start would stretch the early game out *just* enough to mean that there would actually BE an early game, and keep the mid game entirely viable while punishing the meta late game death balling by adding that extra 5-10 minutes to gatekeep the strategy.
Honestly, it is at this point that SC2 design clashes with what I think controls should be. Cyclones with no cooldown basically means lock-on is just auto-attack that costs APM and attention, and I'm not a fan of those costs for the sake of costs. Might as well go back to SC1 group system and the like. That's the same philosophy.
@@AtticusKarpenter not as fast as Helion and Zergling. And the idea that you can keep the Lockon stay on at the perfect 8-9 range so that your Cyclone can deal damage while taking none from your enemy is quite delusional.
i actually hate mothership change. Yes it will be more viable but it completely lost its flavor as protoss fleet flagship. now it's not even mothership, might as well rename it as arbiter. I think they should have buffed it not make it cheaper and smaller and completely murder flavor of the unit.
EMP the whole Protoss army, basically halving their HP. Still losing to that death ball shit just a-moving through. This patch will help Protoss for sure but I think we need to get rid of disruptors completely and balance the race differently. With enough disruptors you can't ever take a fight unless you have 10+ libs and can split like Clem
Still feel that a Colossus buff (Prismatic Alignment) research upgrade in Fleet Beacon to allow them an air attack with cool down attack range = non-Thermal lance (7). Same damage as Void Ray. This would be an interesting addition especially vs Vikings, Corruptors & Carriers.
Sounds like general weakening of spellcasters, to reduce the amount of "you blink you lose" moments in mid-level, and make battles longer + more intense at higher level? I can't wait to try out the cyclone tweaks, remembering the dumb cheeses back when you could last make cyclones on a reactor
static Anti-Air needs a major revamp across all races. turrets/cannons/spore are laughably useless against everything but medivacs. i dont know what the specs are but i swear I saw an overlords vision out-range my turret and thus allowed for a nydus. when carriers arrive, the AI is too stupid to target the ship... really?
I was hoping to see something that'd move power around toss so they don't rely on the boring as hell stalker anymore. Nothing kills a pro match for me like mass stalkers just close right out of it.
who TF cares about 25 minerals cheaper Ultras in the late game...zergs have like 3k mineral bank by then. Only gas is the issue. this is the dumbest change I have ever seen, it's like pretending to give zerg a buff so they'l shut up and stop complaining, but this is totally meaningless.
I don't like cyclone changes. I think a reduction in lock-on range was all that it needed. with this change + void ray -tempest buff, I hope void ray proxy + shield battery against Terran won't be overpowered.
You can reactor cyclones instead of needing a tech lab now, so I don't think it will be anything more difficult to deal against proxy voidray/tempest (shield batt is still garbage outside of nexus). Having less base movement speed might be problematic, but by that time, you should get 2 cyclones to defend a single void ray and it should turn around because cyclone's dps is way too high against armored units (New: 26.48 vs armored compared to Old with lock-on: 28.2 (42.3 vs everything with mag-field). They are only 2-supply now too and cost significantly less resources.
@@Whalery Cyclone strength was the range, so that they can lock on and then get away dealing damage while taking none. Now they cant do that unless its against melee unit, which they are excellent at. I dont think you can get the Cyclone to shoot at VR while taking no damage with this change, because VR does have a "lease" range where it keep shoot even if the target move away. Meaning you have to trade damage between VR and Cyclone, and VR has the advantage of being a flying unit that can just stay on dead space and shoot at building/unit then move away to heal. I still dont think this will bring back the Proxy VR cheese build from Protoss, but Cyclone is definitely no longer a strong counter to air unit early game. They become more "generic" like a Marine or Hydra.
What do you think? :)
i think no problem at all , Starcraft fanbase always find a way
You said Protoss looks like a pretty strong race, just not quite as good as Terran or Zerg. I am not sure whether it is lack of understanding of the words or just general lack of intelligence and mental training but that sentence for sure makes no sense.
Thermy, wtf. How are we going to play late game TvZ with these ghosts?? And in general, just look what will happen to TvT without ravens
@@siriusblack9789 i like the cyclone new update , true to the worth
We are thinking 🫣
Just published the balance test branch of the Advanced Unit Tester to include these changes so everyone can easily test them. There's both an extension mod and an arcade map version.
the hero we need but we dont deserve
Thanks King 👑
the true power of mothership is not her unit-stat, it is her power to make my FPS dropping to zero for a few second ! now protoss can manually control this 'ability' !
Legit response of truth.
LOL 31 Carriers & Momma ship meta?
Weird...T can scan on demand. Zerg has overseer spam. This is another thing which will matter in PVP and nothing else.
Broodlings from a hatcheries should not be affected by the broodlord change. It's written in the yellow bow: "Test Mod TODO: Make this not affect Broodlings from building deaths"
I wonder if they could just increase the number of broodlings released by buildings, instead of having two different broodlings.
Cyclones now have a higher attack speed than Marines LMAO
i want uthermal mass cyclones now
Stutter stepping Cyclones will be the next Terran signature move, lol
I haven't been paying attention for so long, and as soon as I do I find this shit?
@@HibiscusOrchid i wonder if that'll actually work. They have a lower CD on their attack, but their damage point (the stat that dictates how quickly damage happens after an attack) wasn't changed. Marines have a super low damage point, which is why they're as good at stutter stepping as they are.
@@HibiscusOrchid Cyclones don't need stutter-stepping in the first place, since they still attack while moving. So they're faster moving, faster attacking, more damaging, anti-armor marines that can attack while moving, have a speed upgrade that makes them almost as fast as base zerglings on creep, and have a longer attack range. JFC WHAT IS THIS.
Y'know what would be an absolutely wild change? give Widowmines an option to hold fire so if you are super map aware you can hold their attack to get more value out of them, but also you can be ending up just losing mines w/o a fight if you aren't paying attention.
cant you just keep shuffling between targets to delay the attack? of unburrow burrow is another option?
Widow mines are already pretty insane, they are a ranged (but semi stationary) baneling that does more damage and has a bigger splash.
@@NeoStorm123with friendly fire
@@NeoStorm123 which countered by 1 zergling or blink stalker.
@@NeoStorm123 which demands a lot of resources and almost always instantly dies with questionable results.
Balance: Our goal is to make Protoss more able to fight Terran mid-late game armies without solely relying on Disruptors
Protoss: Ok, how?
Balance: Disruptors are now 4 supply
Protoss: How does this help us fight Terran mid-late armies?
Balance: No, you misunderstood. Now you can't solely rely on Disruptors.
Well ghosts got nerfed a bit
Balance: It's okay, Motherships are now cheaper!
Protoss: Oh cool maybe we will be able to use them now!
Balance: Sure, as long as you weren't hoping to use them for more than 10 seconds every minute.
clown world
A Mothership is similarly powerful to a Carrier on raw stats. Being able to immediately get a 250/250 carrier on your Nexus as soon as your Fleet Beacon finishes sounds very strong. Means you don't need as many Stargates initially to get production pumping.
im all for the protoss changes I mean look at all the pro matches its 95% TvZ there are hardly any protoss matches so if this update makes them come back and we get more variety of all 3 races great!
The cyclone change sounds a bit like a half way between the original cyclone and the reactor cyclone
Really cool changes, I really hope they pan out as intended. Overall just glad to see the dedication to the fan base - LONG LIVE SC2
Infestors not being able to kill marines? If Marines have medivacs it takes 4-5 fungals already to do serious damage to them and any decent splits negate this anyway.. Reduction to 20 damage wasn't necessary.
How they managed to have literally NO ability when spawned, until this patch is amazing to me.
You arent supposed to kill a bio army with 2 fungals wtf. Do the math dude you cant even pick up into medivacs, its such a cheesy ability and makes it so that banes annihilate everything.
A Protoss unit with 1 base armor benefits more from an additional point of armor than an additional point of shield, especially against Marines/lings or other small but fast attackers.
That said, as you pointed out Shield upgrade applies to all units, so I am not sure on why the cost should go down when it applies to EVERYTHING and it does regen unlike the health of Protoss units, so any surviving unit or one hugging a shield battery gets more mileage out of it long term.
its simple. statistics show protoss player dont get shield upgrades. therefore shiled upgrades must be too expensive. so they have to be cheaper. it cant possibly be the case that protoss players just dont get an upgrade that is actually useful to them, because theyve been playing that way since 1999 and cant adapt.
@@TheSuperappelflap or could it possibly mean that getting attack and armor upgrades is better in the early to mid gamein 99% of cases and investing into shield early leaves you with a much weaker early game army. I wonder which one it is
I haven't played in a very long time so I don't want to overstep my bounds of knowledge, but shields always felt as though they melted immediately before getting to armour, and stalkers would frequently blink as their shields broke. It's always felt as though shields are useful on stalkers, carriers and buildings and little else, and just melt way too quickly on everything else to even matter. This is coming from a bio terran player though, so I'm not sure what it's like in other matchups or even in modern SC2, but it's always felt as though shield upgrades were pointless.
Surely it has nothing to do with the fact that ghosts can erase all shields in the click of a button and render the upgrade useless, whereas the attack and armour upgrades will always be useful.@@TheSuperappelflap
There is no protoss unit with 1 base shield, just 1 base hp armor, like zealots. As game go, other races are able to get damage upgrades making shields weaker over time. with +3 armor on protoss only applies to hp, so out of 80 hp + 80 sheilds a stalker has addition armor only to 80 hp, half of their total hp, while other races have +3 armor to whole unit hp.
you had exactly the same reaction to the ultralisk changes as I did. "Why are we burrowing them exactly?"
Ambushes against marines? Idk why
I wish they'd just buff everything significantly. What makes Brood War so good is that basically every unit is overpowered. It ironically balances everything out.
Speaking of which, I'd like to see jumping lings and banes in multi, as well as that ultralisk with the spine crawlers on its head, and an upgrade to turn scvs into combat units
@@zer0nixwhile we are at it lets double the immortal barrier hp and make it last 10 seconds and give immortals the shadow cannon, carriers repair drones, void rays extra range while charged, and zealots whirlwind if everything is op then nothing is yes?
Love the changes, I think it's healthy to shake up the meta now and then to keep the game from going stale. Plus Protoss needs a slight buff. All the changes seem fine, but the mothership cloaking not being a passive anymore kinda takes away what made it unique, you know, like the Arbiter from SC:BW. It's a staple protoss mechanic, sad to see it only be a 10 second ability.
They should give Tempest the ability to turret track. Basically it lets them face their target and fly backwards, they can't fire while moving, but they stop and fire and start moving again fast. It's a better less derpy looking version of the acceleration increase.
You mean like Cyclones ?
@@NerdGlassGamingPA Not quite, bc Cyclones shot and move at the same time.
More like Immortals or unsieged tanks or collossi. They can't fire and move at the same time, but they always face their target and don't have to turn to fire.
Always felt Banshees should, not for balance but cuz they look dumb flipping direction when kiting, isnt that design of propulsion meant to be omni directional?
@@MerlynMusicman Oh yeah most air units could have this change honestly and they'd look a lot better, but I feel like tempest especially need it given this accelleration change, bc yeah they're awful to micro.
No turn rate sounds like a pretty good buff, not too game breaking but also will just feel over all nice, never thought about it that way.
Don't worry, Thermy. As long as I play SC2, I'll always kill my hive with Vipers XD
Marc with these mine and cyclone buffs please consider bringing back the cyclone-widowmine to GM challenge (or just add it as challenge on uthermal2) now that it seems more viable against general troops and cyclones are cheaper. Loved the original series, and hope everyone has fun playing on the new patch!!!
i dunno if deleting magfield, reducing range, and making them from construction paper instead of cardboard.... is what id call a buff.
The Glass canon challenge.
@@ContriveAI It's a rework, they play completely differently now.
Wow, that is a LOT of changes! Exciting! So glad to see SC2 getting shakeups again; super important to keeping it fun.
I do think the raven disable upgrade does buff those weirdos that rush to blink BC in your main in TvT. Disabling the BC was the main tool to kill the first BC to stop the weirdo from snowballing.
Also the nerf of the cyclone will hurt defending against those early TvT BC rushes
Gonna have to reactor vikings to be safe now
@@kaiser2261 I hope they make vikings better soon!
@@SolomonMagnus819 you can now get more than twice as many Cyclones so this doesn't mean you're actually gonna die to BC rushes
plus the IM hasn't been removed completely, it's just delayed. probably it's not delayed critically much and you still can disable a BC when it's not too late.
@@Necrocidal I don't know how you can buff vikings without causing issues in other matchups. They're too valuable in late game PvZ against broods (even more so now) and carriers.
Maybe another cheap upgrade that causes additional damage to mech units? A flat damage bonus to mech air?
These changes finally put a nail in the coffin of the zerg cabal memes i hope. T receives fake nerfs that do nothing but pretend to do. Snipe still 2-shots lurkers, still 2-shots broods, it was never really used vs roaches bc those are cheap AF anyway, still 1-shots hydras, ravagers, vipers, which would not die anymore without the +40 to psionic, which is hilarious as well because it ONLY affects queens and vipers really (and infestors, but those are squishy AF anyway). If they did less damage vs queens, that would at least have been somewhat decent, but like this it's absolutely minor, does really only matter vs broods if T gets only one shot off and waits a bit, but not too long and zerg doesn't transfuse. EMP radius back to what it was 2 patches ago, it being the catch-all tool vs protoss back then and still being it now. Raven fake nerf, by the time you are across the map, the upgrade is finished, making it effectively just take 50 more gas instead of research time really. Widow mine drops not nerfed at all, although those are insanely annoying in lower leagues and really bad game design. Don't look at the minimap for 2-3 sec and lose 12-14 probes or drones - of course not affecting T, bc why would it.
Infestor fungal damage nerf is huge. Wtf, 33% less damage, now really doesn't do very much vs bio anymore. Can't 2-shot neither drones nor SCVs anymore. Almost useless vs interceptors, although it wasn't used as often there, had potential though. Is this only so that T can't be surprised by an early infestor and lose their marines to 2 fungals? For real? Broods now even less dps, their strength way never DPS but making armies have problems fighting them, especially T if they don't unsiege tanks. In direct fights now worse, better at clumping and long-range poking, meh.
Ovie drop buff does almost nothing. Ultra change a farce. Banes were oppressive, that's true. Hydra change seems good to me, hydras are actually not bad units.
Finally: Mothership. While the cloaking field was its bread and butter, the recall always was super cheap and just bad design. Have always at least 8+ corruptors hover near your base as 16 dead supply just to prevent a mothership calling in the entire protoss air fleet just to recall them out again after killing half your base is nearly as stupid as having 3-4 BCs just fly towards outer zerg/protoss bases, kill half a mineral line, yamato the base 4x and then TP out again, waiting for the next cooldown. Why would you even put more focus on that with the mothership now? How is having to sneak by a single unit to get ALL your units in the back of the enemy WITHOUT DANGER as long as you have nexus recall ready EVER good game design? Vs worse players, that can be just game over. All the while cloaking for 10 sec, which is about as long as a scan lasts.
This is a joke. I don't understand what was the thought process behind this. From a fun perspective, the problematic elements have stayed for T and a bit for P while Z was just nerfed. All the while T always crying about other races when they can just mass about any T3 unit requiring good counterplay to even break even. This was clearly heavily influenced by T players and very egoistically so.
Yeah T is already very strong they dont need a reworked cyclone. EMP needs to be nerfed more. Mothership is the last unit that needs to be changed.
I like the changes, hopefully it will add some fresh gameplay and keep things interesting. Tournament is coming up shortly, Harstem mentioned it in his patch review.
Tried the cyclone and I have to say that lock-on kiting is much harder now. For example, to lock on to a hydra you'll need to get into range of 6 vs 7 for the hydra so you'll take a lot of damage. However if you move past 9 the lock-on disconnects and have to get back into 6 range to relock-on taking damage. So you have to stay in the sweet spot of between 7-9 range for the lock-on to work which is really difficult to do. But it does work well against melee units like Zerglings and Zealots. With the health, armor, damage reduction they cant trade efficiently in a head on fight. So yeah, as it currently is I'll be sticking to bio. It's only use case would be to harass zerglings in early game instead of the hellion. And once range units comes it then just dump it.
Yeah, I was think of this against P. I guess forces more blink stalker to break the lock? None of the gateway units are going to be able to do dick about it. I wonder if the speed is low enough b4 upgrade for immortal to actually fight a bit?
Losing the permanent cloak on Motherships is TOUGH. But with faster Tempests can be an interesting mix....
Very interesting and inspiring patch. Banes definitely needed nerfed. The cyclone without a tech lab I think is fucked up, but weakening them with reduced speed til upgrade, lowering hp, and the rest seems like a fair tradeoff; obviously a different kind of unit now like the mothership. Mothership changes have me thinking a lot. 250/250 at 6psi and reduced bt seems like a fair interchange with cloak being a 10s ability. The mothership was invented in wol through black hole. It's needed an update (like banes) since d1 of wol. Medvacs getting buffed seemed unnecessary, but at least its an upgrade required to benefit from it. Fungal getting nerfed but no more pathogen glands needed is interesting. Tempest accel is going to annihilate carrs/BC more now in teams. Brood lord speed with weaker broodlings is interesting too. The overlord thing truly reminds me of reviving the bw zerg experience. All of these seem well thought out. Love seeing SC2 get tended to. STARCRAFT FOREVER!
I like to think the in-universe explanations for balance changes are the large-scale economic requirements of a sector wide war. Sure it doesn’t make sense on a small scale to make a unit weaker, but when you consider the enormous supply chains required to sustain total war, sometimes it makes sense.
Does anyone know if the Collussus bug is still here ? If so, it mean that they still have +1 range
27:38 weird to say this. Terrans are kind of _uniquely_ good at All-Ins because they can pull the boys and not miss out on as much eco as another race would if they did the same due to MULEs. Terrans also uniquely can build buildings very close to their opponents with no real upkeep such as creep or pylons needed and Barracks build faster than something like a Hatchery. :D
Eric and serral at one point used the queen drop creep spread tactic and it was legit.
Maybe Ultras can burrow to dodge snipe now. Dark sometimes did that with roaches. It forces the preemptive scan because if you lose vision even for a second, it's cancelled.
Balance team: "Guys the players are complaining Protoss isnt viable, what should we do? Do we need to rework warpgate mechanics?"
Also balance team: "Get the clown makeup. We're nerfing the 'ruptor. And redesign the cyclone, no one was complaining about it."
what is wrong with warpgate?
@@gusramirez5647 it makes it impossible to have competitive gateway units that can fight against tier 1 twrran and zerg cost effectively.
@@isaacsteele7986 if zerg players actually started using nydus to reinforce you would have a point, but they only use it for cheesy allins or late game harassment
The changes come from players now. Balance team just carries them out. It’s not like it used to be.
@@isaacsteele7986 Fly a warp prism in and start warping in units takes about 5-6 sec, 1-2 to fly it in, 4 to warp. Nydus takes 15-16 sec (14 growing, 1-2 for overlord to fly in) to build, 0.5 sec for each unit to unload, so 8 zerglings takes already the 4 sec that warp prism can warp in 8 zealots (although 8 lurkers also take that long), nydus is attackable during the growing period, nydus costs 75/75 each, nydus is a ground unit, so ANY unit can attack it and it can't try to hide behind buildings like the warp prism. Marauders and tanks both can't target warp prisms, against a nydus a single tank is enough to take it out before it emerges. Really not in the least comparable and that's the reason why they're not used often and not at all for reinforcement bc usually zerg cannot hold a position so the nyduses die too frequently.
should have linked the post in the desc
I think it's hard to tell where the cyclone is gonna land. Most changes i like though, ghost nerf really is needed, changes to disruptors, lurker, mines sounds good too, hopefully make them a little easier to play against. The infestor and raven changes are good I think. Mothership and immortal and medivac changes are a bit sketchy though, they are already super strong units.
The discussion on shield upgrades is interesting. Remember it affects ground, air and buildings. And shields regens and can be in play multiple times, unlike base HP armour for protoss, This could be big for blink stalkers and shield battery effectiveness in particular. Shield battery/cannon combo too. Things that are very strong already, especially early on. I think all in all these changes are to to good for protoss, while not really solving the problem of lacking pre-deathball consistency.
Mothership strong? It is a meme because it is so useless
The Cyclone change has me a bit nervous. Huge nerfs to range and damage, and swapping out their cardboard plating for construction paper. I feel they might just be kind of useless now and see even less play than they already do.
no techlab required, and u can reactor them now.
They used to require you to make a lot of factories and by then roach mass would just basically Trade enough before u can snowball to good levels of mech, now you can have 2 reactor'd factories, and a techlab factory and produce MORE cyclones, while making a siege tank on the other factory to support them, they also have half the gas cost.
They are slowly turning into the mech equivalent of a marine. Maybe that’s good, I really don’t know.
They’re currently way overtuned once they get their speed upgrade. They still have 9 max-range after they lock on. They beat stalkers in upfront fights AND can chase blink stalkers, AND blink stalkers can’t chase them
I think being able to spam them is a good trade off to the nerfs they’ve received. It might even make them useful TvZ late game… right now they’re terrible once BL and even ultras hit the field.
So let me get this straight - The immortal on the new patch, when hit by an EMP, only activates the barrier? But before it also was stripped of shields?
Without banelings, zerg doesn't have ground splash for the first two tiers.
They are almost never cost effective.
Zerg can't fight planetaries.
And with the exception of friendly fire, is in every single way inferior to an unupgraded widow mine.
Zerg isn't cost effective race in the first place. Against planetaries the damage didn't change. So your points missed the mark. Baneling nerf was expected but they probably went too far with hp nerf at least for a single patch. HP change is something that affects them in combat the most from this patch.
@@Skorpyotnt The reason they got the HP buff in the first place was because they weren't countering marines.
Now with the fungal nerf as well, like, g'luck.
I don't see any nerfs to widow mines, hellions, disruptors, oracles, marines or liberators because they kill workers too easily...
If only there were a counter to banelings that could somehow wall them off from entering a mineral line instead of rolling out changes aimed at punishing zerg for ever attacking workers. 🙄
The response regarding planetaries was because Uthermal doesn't like banelings versus planetaries.
As though taking that trade wasn't a *massive* Terran cost efficiency that simply wins them the game if done more than about twice.
Why are Voids now fast while using Prismatic... wasn't the slowdown supposed to be the tradeoff for being super powerful during the prismatic?? I really don't understand that change.
Previously void rays would move slower in bigbeam with the upgrade than bigbeam without the upgrade. (because blizzard forgot to change the set speed number in one of their previous patches. Bigbeam sets the speed rather than having the beam be a % reduction)
Yea it doesn’t mean prismatic speeds it up. It means the slowdown is reduced accordingly for voids with the flux vanes upgrade, so they will move faster with flux vanes in both states compared to without flux. Just a bug fix.
@@Alejandro-fm5wo Looking at the patch notes, it explains that it should have been high 2's (instead of the bug which made it 2.5 ish) but the patch now changes it to mid 3's? Which seems to imply it's still much higher? Not sure I get it.
@@MKu64 it change ONLY if you research Flux Vane, which buff the regular VR speed from 3.8 to 4.6. So when the Alignment is activated, the speed is increase from 2.88 to 3.49 WITH Flux Vane upgraded.
They should try some bold stuff like giving Protoss Arbiters, Dragoons and moving Warpgate to a final endgame tier upgrade, and making Protoss gateway stuff actually tough.
Replace Disruptors with Reavers too while they're at it ;)
Can we also have the most needed change in SC2 history as part of this patch? It's just a name change, but fundamental:
Engineering Bay -> Armory: Armory should be researching infantry upgrades!
Armory -> Engineering Bay: eBay should be researching tech upgrades!
20:30 They clearly don't want to nerf the building broodlings, RIP buffing uThermal in challenges vs AI.
Very promising patch and a fantastic summary. Not sure about another complete redesign of Cyclone, this unit is such a mess.
I havent played since LOTV was released and i finished that campaign.
Planning to return to SC. Hows the meta overall? Last I played, terran was absolutely op.
is it op to make the mothership immune to abduct? i feel like that should be a thing
Having your mothership abducted feels bad. Facing a mothership that you can't kill, even with large amounts of antiair, feels much worse. Abduct needs to exist as a counter. And hey, now with the cost change you only need to snipe 2 corruptors in the process to keep up on cost!
Would 'making abducts only 50% effective vs massive so you have to chain 2 abducts for the same effect' even achieve anythjng other than making it look less derp when it gets yoinked...
I would be ok with that if the mothership was immobile while using the new cloacking ability. Otherwise it would be too easy to defend it by putting a bunch of carriers and voidrays between it and the enemy army.
you cant take mothership with infestor, if u cant abduct too, how do you kill it as zerg? only fungal and mass overseer to make visible all army is not a solution. Mothership is already heavy unit... slow motion etc, is nice to make it more agile but not invincible.
Thank you for the thoughts.
They needed to pump out some SC2 news with that new SC@ game coming that looks like the Dawn of War WH40k games.
Maybe Sentries could get an upgrade for Guardian Shield (possibly at the robotics support bay) that would let them cast it on a unit rather than around themselves. It would allow them to survive in the mid/late game instead of being targeted instantly at the start of a battle.
As a zerg, I would like that. A parasited guardian casting shield on my ultralisks, yes please.
Absolutely distraught that they didn’t exclusively buff the race I am playing and only nerf the other two races
So what does the raiuds of a disruptor mean?
Thanks for the video. I didn't like some of the mother mother's changes: Less health and shield (500), makes her weaker than the battlecruiser (550). The reduced movement speed of the Time Warp ability and that Cloak Field is no longer passive, that's an iconic ability of this unit.
Mothership has 350 Shields/350 HP. Nothing in the patch changes state that it's health would change.
Terran is definitely the strongest race right now, every terran unit has a major weakness but also major strengths and they all cover eachothers weakness. In the early game of pvt, beating marine maruader tank is incredibly difficult because they all cover eachother so well and counter protoss hard
As a terran player, I agree. I climbed the ladder extremely quickly with a simple marine/marauder/medivac/siege tank timing attack push, not using drops and having poor micro. It's a protoss a-move deathball strat with one extra button to press (stim and siege vs just blink) and just feels stronger in general imho.
I hate playing against tanks and I often don't really like using them much, as well. Maybe there could be some work done around them? Or other units could be changed to become similar to terran units (i.e., change adepts so they cover more weaknesses instead of just being a protoss version of the reaper that falls off immediately).
nah, zerg
@@elliejohnson2786 For sure, I'm still learning in gold as protoss and I think I'm improving my strategy, but I find in the PvT matchup it can be difficult to get the units out to counter tanks while still having a force that can deal with a bio ball, and it feels like they can get their bio ball out so fast and ONE tank behind it can destroy you with it's really high range and damage output
@@elliejohnson2786 say it again when you reach the master league, try that timing attack push against zerg. lmao
Lol no
The viper skill can simply be changed to, that hte viper cannot kill any building when its at one if its your own building, instead the building will naturally regen and it will simply consume that + 1 hp and gain energy more slowly, so using bio life regen and energy... but can't kill the building outright.. that would fix the problem...
Something that could even be done in an editor. LIke Unit (viper) cannot destroyed allied/self (buildings) with skill (consume)
Blizzard's desperation is our gain.
These balance changes are presented to Blizzard by a group of pro-players, then Blizzard's team sees how to implement them.
Im liking the trend of reducing the DPS of units while making them more cheaper/maneuverable. All or nothing units are super dumb.
Im sort of amazed how the widow mine avoided this change as well...
Make them 25/25 but reduce the damage + splash radius.
Id also id think everyone would appreciate similar changes to the disruptor, the most all or nothing unit.
Keep supply at 4 so they cant be spammed but reduce cost and make them faster. Then reduce damage so they cant one hit anything.
Id prefer to remove the disruptor entirely so we can buff other units since i think its a terribly designed unit and im a protoss player...dreams can happen...
I think the immortal change isn't as buffing as it sounds. I think it just means when you EMP the immortal, the EMP will trigger the barrier first, then drain the barrier's health pool instead of draining the shield first then triggering the barrier.
It's significant in that it doubles the resources Terran has to spend to deal with the immortals in the mid-to-late game when using Ghosts. It's no longer "EMP then wait 2 seconds then engage with effectively 100 free damage vs the immortals" but requires either an additional EMP or to manually fight through the shields. It also helps Immortals avoid hull damage in the first place when their barriers activate, which makes drop micro more effective in the early game (as you chip the hull less)
It might not be a BIG buff, but it's SOMETHING without radically changing the numbers of the immortal otherwise.
I´m really looking forward for those cheaper cyclones because I think we will see more mech, which leads to more different games but a faster moving (with upgrade), faster shooting and with more range, plus no more cooldown sounds a little bit scarry, but we will see.
Mothership sounds like a maneurable paperweight now.
I know Protoss struggles through early-mid, but Golden Armada feels unstoppable unless you've got crazy speed
EMP effectively deals 200 damage to immortals per cast now. It's so good that I've beaten mass immortal armies with mass thors multiple times just because i had few ghosts for EMP. That should be way harder to achieve after the patch, if possible at all.
But, wait... what about the colossus? you know, the very bugged unit that was the impetus for the recognition of needing another balance patch... Is it keeping the Extended Extended Thermal Lance??
Also the void ray prismatic alignment movement speed being slower with flux vanes than without
damn, get ready for Hydra bane all ins from zerg after this. Early hydra and bane upgrades, that attack will hit quite a lot quicker than it usually does.
-250/-250 just doesn't have the same meme quality as -400/-400. The true loss of this patch.
I haven't played SC2 for many many years. How did I just watch 42min of patchnotes? :)
More than anything I'm just excited to see Blizzard still committing some dev time to the game, and fresh builds while folks figure out the meta.
This is entirely community developed and made ;)
Blizzard only implements the patch that was developed (which is nice, go intern!)
I wonder if zergs could use their second or third overlord to drop creep on the ramp to have zerglings hit .3 seconds sooner or something.
Anything that gets more ultra links on the field is good, those units are so fun to watch. They either carve through the enemy or die silly deaths because of unnecessary poking and prodding
I particularly liked the idea of "Droperlords to grandmaster". The other changes are meh... :/
so +2 attack no longer clears mineral lines, ok...does +3 attack still do it, at least?
Yes, unless the workers are SCVs or have at least +2 armor/shields.
The fact 50+ people had input on something like this blows my mind. Too many cooks but hopefully there were lots of considerations.
You think blue flame hellbats/hellions will be more effective vs Banelings?
Blue flame affects light units and baneling is not a light units
@@isni1946 idk why but I thought they were
Well, kinda, because Helion now take 1 less shot to kill Baneling, 4 instead of 5. But do they counter Banes? I still dont think so.
as a terran metal leaguer, this is good for me. i started playing when cyclone does not require tech lab. it helps me vs protoss to hold early proxy robo/gate or early proxy stargate.
for me at least i can survive the first 5 mins. good enough for a potato like me. on the flip side, the hydra buff looks too strong
All protoss units should be able to blink,
or at the very least, all air toss should be able to blink. If a BC can teleport, it's only fair that a highly advanced unit such as a freakin tempest that can shoot till infinity and beyond but for some odd reason moves slower than a 110 year old man with a walker, should be allowed to blink. Let this slow azz unit be able to blink.
As for interference matrix,
the length of time should be proportional to the hit points of the targeted unit. A giant scary azz alien building with legs that shooter freaking lasers should not be allowed to be easily disabled for so long. It should require 3 ravens shooting it with interference matrices to disable it for a viable enough time.
Cyclone is Big Marine™ now, which is good because terran has needed a Big Marine™ ever since WoL where goliaths were no longer in multiplayer. I was hoping the Viking could be changed to fulfill Big Marine™ status, but this seems better. I definitely prefer this to the cruising little nuke boats that are the current cyclones.
Maybe this will give them an excuse to finally nerf the marine itself.
3 reactor factory allin is all were gonna see this next months
I'd love to see those changes in live testing!
But am I the only one that thinks the Mothership should just be replaced by the Arbiter.
And also EMP and Interference Matrix should switch units? :)
That medivac upgrade is ridiculous, if you have a Collosus and it happens to target a marauder that's being healed it may as well be hit by Interference Matrix.
Basically this is just a huge Marauder buff, remove marines from your comp and nothing dies, very short sighted change.
It's energy regeneration buff, not healing amount. Medivacs use energy to heal, they often run out of the energy in longer games then your army completely falls off. This just stops that happening. It does nothing to the rate of healing.
Did they fix the colossus bug?
id like to say my thoughts on balance before seeing the notes, as a silver noob.
When a game, especially an RTS, is balanced entirely around the professional scene, its unbalanced as all hell to the other 95% of the players. micro heavy units like reapers and mines almost never appear until high gold, and Zerg is regarded as incredibly difficult due to their minimum 300 APM requirement with queens and creep.
Protoss may seem weak at high levels, but that is entirely because they are THE momentum faction and professionals/skilled players know how to stop that momentum. Below gold, even in gold, they are absurdly strong. Cannon rushing is a very popular strategy because of how few people prepare to counter it. in a Late game fight, protoss will nearly always win most fair engagements because players dont or cant micro like pros can. Its not even uncommon to see parties of toss players in 3v3 and 4v4 spam all carriers and win by sheer lagout, which is very frustrating.
In honesty, ive long said the game needs a longer early game to encourage and reward scouting and micro heavy early units like reapers and adepts, currently it can be very hard to scout as its either very easy to wall off your base before 3 minutes or have troops on the ramp to shut it down, and you dont gain actual information until AFTER 3 minutes. an 8 worker start would stretch the early game out *just* enough to mean that there would actually BE an early game, and keep the mid game entirely viable while punishing the meta late game death balling by adding that extra 5-10 minutes to gatekeep the strategy.
Honestly, it is at this point that SC2 design clashes with what I think controls should be. Cyclones with no cooldown basically means lock-on is just auto-attack that costs APM and attention, and I'm not a fan of those costs for the sake of costs.
Might as well go back to SC1 group system and the like. That's the same philosophy.
I love how serral wins everyforiegn tournament for years and the answer is to buff zerG. L M A O
eeeh.. where zerg buff exactly?
@@AtticusKarpenterpretty much all air units, ultras, infesters, hydras, pretty much everything that's not a banneling
cant wait to see these 100 supply cyclone armies zooming around the map lmao
Im sure they will enjoy death by siegetank colossus and lurkers.
TvT :
Let's make mass Cyclone
Siege Tank: Nice
Also, Nerf Cyclone LockOn Range, Phoenix-Oracles-Muta: See ya, can never catch us again.
So the cyclone is now a goliath on cocaine? Neat.
its now made of paper instead of cardboard, slower, less range, and hits less hard without magfield. wipe your tears
@@ContriveAIFaster*
With upgrade they really fast
@@AtticusKarpenter not as fast as Helion and Zergling. And the idea that you can keep the Lockon stay on at the perfect 8-9 range so that your Cyclone can deal damage while taking none from your enemy is quite delusional.
If that version of cloak field is a placeable AoE and not directly under the mothership like before i can see it being a buff
Like a dozens of zealots cloaked in your main base ?
@@Bos_roseus or re-cloaking dt's
The cyclone is now a goliath
These Protoss buffs are insane. They're already OP
i actually hate mothership change.
Yes it will be more viable but it completely lost its flavor as protoss fleet flagship. now it's not even mothership, might as well rename it as arbiter. I think they should have buffed it not make it cheaper and smaller and completely murder flavor of the unit.
Renaming it to arbiter is actually very good idea
Arbiters have perma invis. So it's worse. At least they solved the abduct issue. Now you have less reasons to build a mothership.
Link?
EMP the whole Protoss army, basically halving their HP. Still losing to that death ball shit just a-moving through.
This patch will help Protoss for sure but I think we need to get rid of disruptors completely and balance the race differently. With enough disruptors you can't ever take a fight unless you have 10+ libs and can split like Clem
I think a snipe will out right kill overseers now right?
Might make widow mines better late game.
Why do widow mines need a buff again? This unit can single handedly win games against Toss early/mid game Lol.
youre not supposed to eat them
Even pros lose entire mineral lines to them. Mines are a problem. @@ContriveAI
Thanks for the analysis
Still feel that a Colossus buff (Prismatic Alignment) research upgrade in Fleet Beacon to allow them an air attack with cool down attack range = non-Thermal lance (7). Same damage as Void Ray. This would be an interesting addition especially vs Vikings, Corruptors & Carriers.
Mothership to GM lets go
Why does this feel like a uthermal nerf with the change to medivacs, cyclones and ghosts? 😂
Sounds like general weakening of spellcasters, to reduce the amount of "you blink you lose" moments in mid-level, and make battles longer + more intense at higher level?
I can't wait to try out the cyclone tweaks, remembering the dumb cheeses back when you could last make cyclones on a reactor
I thought this was a fan patch! This is real? Awesome.
static Anti-Air needs a major revamp across all races. turrets/cannons/spore are laughably useless against everything but medivacs. i dont know what the specs are but i swear I saw an overlords vision out-range my turret and thus allowed for a nydus. when carriers arrive, the AI is too stupid to target the ship... really?
I was hoping to see something that'd move power around toss so they don't rely on the boring as hell stalker anymore. Nothing kills a pro match for me like mass stalkers just close right out of it.
Finally I can play mass cyclone again!
who TF cares about 25 minerals cheaper Ultras in the late game...zergs have like 3k mineral bank by then. Only gas is the issue. this is the dumbest change I have ever seen, it's like pretending to give zerg a buff so they'l shut up and stop complaining, but this is totally meaningless.
Can the overlord speed increase make them safe from raven autoturrets?
There is no planed overlord speed increase. Only droperlord speed is to be increased.
I don't like cyclone changes. I think a reduction in lock-on range was all that it needed. with this change + void ray -tempest buff, I hope void ray proxy + shield battery against Terran won't be overpowered.
You can reactor cyclones instead of needing a tech lab now, so I don't think it will be anything more difficult to deal against proxy voidray/tempest (shield batt is still garbage outside of nexus). Having less base movement speed might be problematic, but by that time, you should get 2 cyclones to defend a single void ray and it should turn around because cyclone's dps is way too high against armored units (New: 26.48 vs armored compared to Old with lock-on: 28.2 (42.3 vs everything with mag-field). They are only 2-supply now too and cost significantly less resources.
@@Whalery yes youre right when i write the comment i didnt consider ease of production.
Needed only rediction on lock on range? Cyclon need full rework because it is useless at The moment
@@Whalery Cyclone strength was the range, so that they can lock on and then get away dealing damage while taking none. Now they cant do that unless its against melee unit, which they are excellent at. I dont think you can get the Cyclone to shoot at VR while taking no damage with this change, because VR does have a "lease" range where it keep shoot even if the target move away. Meaning you have to trade damage between VR and Cyclone, and VR has the advantage of being a flying unit that can just stay on dead space and shoot at building/unit then move away to heal.
I still dont think this will bring back the Proxy VR cheese build from Protoss, but Cyclone is definitely no longer a strong counter to air unit early game. They become more "generic" like a Marine or Hydra.
5:10 mass cyclone to grandmaster return ?!