When Traction Bars are OK on a Mopar Plymouth Duster??
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2020
- Just having fun and sharing what's worked for me. Yes, there are better devices than traction bars, but the pinion snubber isn't always one of them. And, ignore my pajama pants!!!
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Great video! I've ran traction bars on several Mopars through the years, I've always liked them. Thanks for sharing!
Work👍👍 but theyre ugly hanging down.
I'm over 60 so grew up with some rad cars. In my 40s had a 1973 Duster. 340, mild cam, headers, edelbrock, holley, slant 6 torsion bars, mild converter. 10" street tire, 3.91 sure grip, pinion snubber. Would fry both tires for a good ways. Switched to traction bars just like the ones you showed, still laid twin patches but about a quarter of previous distance then hooked and gone. Enjoyed the video. My rant :Your car - your way".
Good demonstration. Sometimes you just have to show people step by step for them to get it. Your explanations are gold to anyone who wants to get into the hobby.
You're absolutely correct leaf springs are leaf springs whether it be Ford, dodge, Chevy . That was a very good explanation of how traction bars work. I had a car that would wheel hop really bad and I put traction bars on it and it cleared it up and I could get both tires spinning instead of the one tire fire or the one wheel peel . But that was a very good explanation of what traction bars are for and I will be running a set on my 79 pinto that I am building a 347 stroker for. Good stuff. I like your channel cause you have really good videos and I am a Ford guy but I really like your videos 👍👍👌👌🚙💨💨💨 keep them coming I really look forward to watching more of your videos and seeing you put upgrades on your cars
Never gone threw this situation but what you’re getting at makes physic sense.
The best traction system to use is the one that works for you... Screw the naysayers.
Damn Man. You sound a little passionate about this. Got a little loud at times!
I agree w your simple science.
And I love the burn out videos!
Great explanation of how traction bars work! They were made for leaf spring cars. Doesn't matter what make or model. If it has a leaf spring and a stock setup suspension. Use traction bars.
Pajama pants are fine. A Speedo would be another story, Ha
His explanation was spot on for a limited slip rear and a posi rear. I'm running traction bars on a 72' Plymouth Satellite with a Posi center or "sure grip" if u prefer. I did it simply because it was cheaper than buying a new snubber tall enough to work in the car with the extended leaf shackles I added for the tall tires. They work just fine and I think they look pretty good too.
I wouldn’t trade a good set of Lakewood slapper bars for a whole damn pile of calwhatevers, metal to metal don’t last well in a street car that’s why they have rubber bushings. Great vid btw love ur Mopars
Thinking of picking up some slappers for my nova would u recommend them?
Glad you explained then demonstrated how they work. Everybody explains how they work but don't show that they do work and a hook up like that stoplight to stoplight on a mild build can't beat that
This video is amazing i was just debating with a buddy that traction bars do work on a mopar my challenger is proof of that! Now i have a video to send him lol
Wanted to put Caltracks on my Mopar, got laughed at just talking about it. Great video and the physics you explained made sense.
Did not know that axle twist / lift occurs as you explained. Makes sense to opt for traction bars.
What makes Caltracs such an attraction to the leaf spring guys is their adjustability for preload. If you use spacers with the generic traction bars, you can get preload to the passenger side also as soon as you apply any power to the car.
There's a certain someone on YT that claims leaf sprung Mopars don't need slapper bars because of pinion snubbers, "Superstock" springs, the location of the axle locating pin and a bunch of other BS that stops wheel hop. So what?
It doesn't matter if it's a Mopar, GM, Ford or even a Toyota mini-truck. It doesn't matter if you have an open diff, limited slip, a locker or a spool. On a leaf sprung solid axle vehicle, properly set up TRACTION bars aren't there to stop wheel hop. That is a side benefit. Their primary purpose is inducing anti-squat and improving weight transfer to increase TRACTION just like Caltracs do. Unlike putting your faith in some magical Mopar springs, (good)traction bars are also tunable for tire and track conditions.
Very good advise!👍Now am a believer. You showed by real world demonstration!! Thanks! Cool!
Good explanation
Great presentation. Completely agree with your conclusions. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
If you're racing or taking off quickly, you should have a sure-grip and not an open rear-end.
I had a 73 Challenger 340 / 4 speed and ran a pinion snubber to eliminate wheel hop and it worked great. I was running 3.55 or 3.91 gears.
Good video by the way.
I love the way you get worked up when explaining things of a technical nature! Reason I love it? I do the exact same thing! LOL I always tell people: "I wont argue with you unless I am 110% confident I am correct. So if I am arguing? Shut up and pay attention." It usually goes over like a lead balloon when I say that. Ohh well. This is why I love guys like you and Uncle Tony. Telling it like it is based on knowledge and understanding driven by experience. Good stuff!
Ha ! Thanks!
What most people don’t realize is the initial development of that snubber is initially to decrease pinion angle during acceleration. The use of that snubber with a stiffer set of Super Stock springs is the same result. Never seen the use of it beneficial except other than decrease pinion breakage... but never had that result personally,🤪. LoL
Good example. While the chryslers car axle is closer to the front. That still doesnt stop the roll side to side.
We run super stock axles with a pinion snubber. We also have a anti sway bar with very little give to balance it side to side. Pinion snubbers brake drive shaft !!!
Your discussion to me, is definitely centered around running open rear ends. The key to this discussion is the word if. And if is a mighty big word lol. If you have this if you have that if it's set up like this if if if if... Personally I've never ran an open rear end. So, with super stock Factory Springs, a good soft compound Tire or drag radials, and a Sure Grip rear end, the pinion snubber and the super stock Springs in conjunction with a better Tire for traction is good enough on the street for most mild horsepower applications. But if you are running an open single track rear end, then I would see a need for traction bars. I've just never ran them because I never needed them on my set ups.
Great demonstration even a dummy like me can understand that!!
Never had any issues in my 1965 Superstock car....Ran it like Chrysler designed it...
Great video!
I’m with this guy. Not to mention they look so cool
They do look cool ! thanks for watching !
Simple logic explained well👍👍👍👍
I made some for my aussie charger open diff just to look cool,painted bright red with white stripes candy canes I called em,and they worked believe it or not,it is only physics after all
You're a smart man.
I have a 1971 Demon 340, 4 speed. I tried both pinion snubber vs Lakewood traction bars and the bars were worth a tenth in my 60ft times. That was with 4.10 gears and L60 bias ply tires. Stock engine. My experience back in the 70's was if you had factory super stock springs ditch the traction bars. Stock springs use them. Per Mopar. My car ran 13.90s to 14.00s. 102mph.
Exactly! Depends on the cars set up.
Agree... I had the factory six pack cars, big block and small block. We just never ran traction bars because we didn't need them with the factory cars and Factory setup.
I see that you're building a drag truck. I actually took an old set of traction bars and welded to the spring retainer plates under my rear end(77 Adventurer). I then found some tubing that perfectly slides into the bar, and extended it to where it would contact the spring eye, and welded it all around. I have some minor adjustment by tightening and loosening the actual U bolts that hold in the rear end. The truck has 4.56's and a 26" tall drag slick. Hooks up great!
I was thinking of something along those lines...… :)
Great explanation!
Thanks!
Back in the 60’s a of Camaro’s would use them Lakewood stopping wheel hop, I had a 69 Hemi Roadrunner and never used them
He is absolutely correct
I have two sets of traction bars one like your yellow ones that bolt with u-bolts and the other set bolts with a shock bottom plate think MAS made them they were on my 71 charger and are still available........guess now I can do some of my own experiments..... Uncle tony also uses the one air shock on rear passenger side to make the car go straight. It's your cars put on them what you want....... Traction bars always looked tuff on cars in the 70s so since they also work on a mopar all the better.
yes, I like the old school look. I ran a set of the MAS, and I like them better because of even more action faster. I used to get the MAS for 29 bucks, but I can't find them anymore
@@318willrunI was wrong the old style is gone. MAS has a website the closest are Lakewood #LWI21604 but at $219.95 I can weld up a set of my own they are not hard to make..... I'll throw my old set of MAS bars in the blaster and make them look nice...... good thing I didn't scrap them!
I had a set on my 74 charger, I'm not sure of the brand but the air shocks connected to them and the rubber in the front was a flat 3" square not coned. It had the 8 3/4, 3:55 Sure-grip. 400 magnum w/a pistol grip 4 spd. When I would launch at 2500-3000 r.p.m. I wound hear them hit. Still broke the N50-15's loose.
@@TimothyRaz727 sweet!
In your case yes, open diff, stock springs, agreed. Personally I'd rather have super stock spring pack or something similar, and a sure grip like I have in my 1964 Sport Fury. I've seen countless super stock mopar cars with no caltrac, no traction bars, running 10-12 second quarter mile times. Dave Dudek's stock appearing drag class Hemi Roadrunner runs low 10s on stocker type tires, no pinion snubber, no traction bars. The main reasoning behind the difference between muscle era Ford And Chevrolet cars is the Mopar axle is located quite a bit farther forward on the leaf springs, this design gives the front section of spring pack very stiff and provides a "traction bar" like effect... even more so with super stock, or performance car spring package. My original 68 340 Formula S Barracuda has the hd springs and sure grip from the factory and launches like a mad dog. th-cam.com/video/UORxRhfjf7E/w-d-xo.html
Awesome video! And yes, you are correct and that is why i pointed out that there are so many variables. The car in the video with SS springs and a sure grip WITH drag slicks is a 100% complete different set up than my car.
You are completely correct
Well said Brother
Preach it! In your opinion and experience between the two cars, do the traction bars help reduce body roll in corning? One rear end coming up off the ground in a sharp corner. Like a sway bar helps.
they do at a little stability.
@@318willrun I think it's the mounts that stiffen weak springs?
@@robbyddurham1624 that and the fact that once the bumpers on the traction bars hit the eye of the leaf, it really stiffens the spring.
your 1.9 60ft is 1/2 second better than mine. My traction bars are coming tomorrow.
The best thing for leaf springs now days are Caltracs and sliders it's the best thing for running your stock, super stock springs or split mono leaf springs for racing
Good point 👍
Found your videos tonight and saw your AZ plate and gotta know if your in PHX or Tucson? I enjoyed the video on the speedmaster heads and this one of course.
Glad you found us and thanks for watching ! Arizona plate is just a plate that says 318willrun, i don't live in Az 😊
On the Mopar message boards the Mopar guys say the pinion snubber was added by Chrysler/ Dodge when they lowered their passenger cars and was to simply keep the u-joint from hitting the tunnel on the floor board on the BB engines not for traction control.
Wish it worked for me but it did'nt. I slapped on the ole slapper bars and punched it????????? One wheel peel. My duster (1971) has 5 leaf springs (very stiff) don't know if stock or not. I installed a 373 gear but I guess a spool or ratchet style posi is the only other option.
I just add clamps to the front spring sections.
Very interesting, thanks for pointing me over to this video. I cannot disagree with your theory at all.
Right On!
318 with an ax15 5 speed in my 73 dart swinger is killing the pinion snubber pad on the floor so I will be adding traction bars to my leaf springs. What length bars are you running?
Mine are the universal ones, like Lakewood universal traction bars. Set the bars so they hit the front eye of the leaf spring, and for best traction, put the bumper of the traction bar only about a half inch or less away. If you want a less "stiff" feel in the back, then you'll need to add more room at the bumper
Pinion snubbers work great for preventing excessive pinion angle yet do crap for lateral axle roll... almost like they were built for a purpose and abused by people who "know better". Slappers work fantastic for the intended purpose. It's people with unreasonable expectations that have a problem.
That's a good perspective!
Most Mopars come with pinion snubbers from the factory but they are not adjustable like the one in the video and slapper bars work if set up right and I have seen many who have them that are not even set up right.
what you explained in this video has been my experiences . so in the other video I made a comment I made I wasent harrassing you . 😎👍🏁. I'm planning on running Lakewood traction bars on my 82 d150 . its a stock 8.25 with sure gripe . I found out Lakewood makes bars for 90s dodge rams that will work on the older dodge trucks 😎👍. it's dumb that they make them for the ram 1500s but not for the 60s-80s trucks? their 200.00 bucks for the pair and chrome plated and have stupid flame decals on the sides but O well
I didn't take it that you were harassing me..... LOL I'll be watching for a video on the truck traction bars 😊
The type of tires you have, stiff or soft sidewall will come into play with this. A harder sidewall will lift the axle unloading it.
Just a follow up on my comments: I am running a big block 400 w/ keith blacks (10.5 to 1 ) and a pretty hefty cam, single 750 four barrel, a fair amount of torque and HP, may b ethe difference...
Big block in a '68 Barracuda would just twist the springs into a pretzel. I mean the back tires would literally jump off the ground. I didn't know what I was doing but my home made slappers worked wonderful! Pushed the tires down and launched that car forward like a rocket.
Thanks for the real life experience !
@@318willrun Thanks for your great videos! I watch several every evening.
@@650gringo thanks, we appreciate that !
Well said, well done. My 1973 340 4-Speed Dodge Dart Sport I worked the motor over. 1980 I put traction bars on it and even had posi in it along with a snubber there already, left snubber there because its not much weight. Took the bars off and lost E.T, and put them back on because it was helpful to stick the tires and even kept the 0-60 feet straighter. The passenger rear quit rising and loosening that tire and kept the pull trail and level. So I decide to keep them after that test, However every Mopar azz - hole at the track knows everything, even though I beat them, consistently. I heard every laughing comment you could image from the fellow Mopar guys being wrong. Yes, Mopar Spring axle position helps with axle hope, but not the tire lifting and losing traction; this part Mopar guys screw up every time. You cannot argue this with them, their mind is closed. One time I unbolted mine and put on another guys and guess what happen; he ran straighter and less wheel spin immediately. he bought a set that week. Et. 10:36. for 1981-82 was good times. The three Mopars with the traction bars left the line level and consistent. It boils down to driving style: If you like wheel lift front and rear then do not use them. If you like a straighter line and less wheel spin; use them. either way STFU about it to other racers.
Nice!!
That 360 is an anomaly! I had a 9.5.1 with a .480 cam,3,500 stall 3.23 geared 74 duster and could only cut 1.90 60ft
Adjustable pinion snubber
They don't just provide traction. They prevent undersized leaf spring tacos 😂. We put them on my buddy's 65 barracuda because the axle wrap was disturbing all traction aside.
Absolutely!
Nothing on my 392, 1970 charger 727 reverse valve body😎
Wonder how trac bars would work on my Fargo with leaf springs and open 8 1/4 diff,?
PS, did U2 video this after morning coffee?.See them gammys.
Are the leafs under or over the axle. If the axle is under the leafs you may need some fabricating to get them to work
@@318willrun they are over the axle.
@@TheFlat6 Then you'd have to buy some specifically for trucks or fabricate some.
Fred, Uncle Tony did a really good video explaining why Dodge trucks wheel-hop so bad. And he was spot on with the physics of the situation. I can't remember the exact video? But it was one of the ones about the Valiant he used the old Swept-line chassis under. There is no rule that says slapper-bars have to be under the axle-spring. You could mount them on top pointed rearward. But, dang physics again, lots of reasons that arrangement would not be nearly as effective.
@@wheelieking71 thanx, no issues at moment as winter has arrived on the prairies of Canada...lol
How about a single air shock on the passenger side?
That would help the axle from trying to pick up on the passenger side, but that would not use axle twist to plant the wheels, especially if you have an open rear-end. I guess I've not tried single air shock with a pinion snubber to say the final outcome on a open rear end.
But I do like a lot of your back yard fixes, Hey some of us Mopar guys barely get by..
Thanks !
You need to marry a young woman so after you retire she is still working bringing home a paycheck to help buy those Mopar parts.
YOU ARE CORRECT
I agree with your experience & opinion 100%. My second car was a '64 Dodge Polara 500 w/383 4 spd and 3.23 sure grip. (My first was a '64 GTO 389 4 spd- it didn't hold up well to the kind of punishment that I dished out) I was merciless with the Dodge. I kept breaking the rear end yokes, bolts, & straps that connected the rear universal joint. I installed Lakewood type slappers that took the place of shock mount plates and that took care of my parts failure problem. It did end up later with a TunnelRam equipped 440, 4.56 geared Dana, and a 727 but the Lakewood slappers stayed because they worked great. The ol' Dodge could take everything I threw at it and I've been a loyal Mopar guy ever since even though I've worked on & been involved with Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs, a couple Olds, even a couple old Caddys. I had many other Mopars. One was a '68 Coronet R/T 4 spd, 4.56 Dana. It had old Traction Master type traction bars that had the front mount solidly attached to the car. They broke. My '70 GTX automatic needed NO traction aid with 3.23 sure grip. It worked great. My son's Charger 440 auto worked great with Super Stock springs as did my buddy's '67
R/T 4spd until it got to 10 sec zone. That car runs 8 sec 1/4s now. I had cars with 3.23 open rear ends which was the most common at that time. '70 Road Runner 383, my brother's '70 Newport 383, '70 Challanger 383, '68 Polara 500 383, my friend's '70 Barracuda 383, and several Dart, Valiant, & Dusters with 318s, 340s, & 360s- some using slappers, most with open 3.23 rears. Many of those cars ended up with a gear swap & adding sure grip but before that happened I would take care of the one wheel peel by tightening up the left front torsion bar to jack weight onto the right rear wheel and the cars would blast off just like a posi. No mo slow motion tire smoke. Some people may not like the idea of their suspension jacked differently from side to side, but if you think about it with driver only in the car you are pretty much just compensating for his/her weight. Slapper bars DO work. Other makes of cars benefit even more from the slappers because they don't have the advantage of short, stiff front half of the springs like the Mopars do. Without the aid of some sort of added control their wheels often bounce like basketballs. My most recent experience with slappers- '67 Mustang covertible 300+ hp T-5 trans. New KYB shocks. Bounces rear tires without the slappers. Current project- '64 Fury 440 4spd coil over rear suspension- belongs to my buddy/partner. Much, much more I could keep carrying on about... sorry. By the way- 318s are cheap, fun, and WILL run!
A fun read.... you are a true car guy!!!
I wanna put that yellow traction bars on my toyota tundra
Couldn't do it without changing tires huh? Lol I bet just the drag radial alone would hook up
I actually cut 1.9's 60ft with 2.45 open and a regular street tire. Without the traction bars, no hope. I don't do things to prove, I just share my experiences over many years.
Simple , pinion snubber or traction bars.
Both do th same thing, just hit different places.
So let me get this straight were talking about traction with a open diff??????
correct
Yes. Open rears will get great traction if the right suspension is used. Lets say you run the pinion snubber only and a sticky right tire with a stock tire on the left. Will it still spin the right tire? Nope. !
Totally agree with you....
did'nt work for me...
Both do a different thing the simple solution put both of them on the car.
You keep skipping the part of Snubber WITH SS SPRINGS!
First part, I made it clear that I was speaking of open diff and stock springs. Are there better choices? Yes. I said that too 😊
74 Chevy Nova ✓
Big JEGS yellow 49.99$ traction bars ✓
Welded stock 3.42 gear✓
10 bolt✓
327, need I say more?✓
TH350 with an unhealthy amount of modulator adjustment and detent pulled out all the way all the time✓
Real deal,
Putting nopars on the trailer weekly,
Or your money back guaranteed •_•
I have SEVERAL th350s to spare. SEVERAL.
I know it's unhealthy
But I like the way trantmithiom goez whInMmNnnmE PA*dink when it blowzzz
So 0.0001% of mopars DO need traction bars. Most racers use an air shock to pre load the passenger side.
one to many zero's... LOL 😁
@@318willrun I'm breaking your balls; i love the channel.
Air shock does work quite well. Air shock and slapper bars together works even better.
@@wheelieking71 I always thought it was funny that most traction bars say "not recommended for use with air shocks". Man life would be so boring if we followed manufacturers recommendations.