HELLENIC: ANCIENT GREEK & MYCENAEAN GREEK
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 เม.ย. 2024
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![Conversation: Ancient Greek vs. Modern Greek [SUB ESP]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vDojnOSporE/mqdefault.jpg)
I wonder how accurately they reconstructed the Mycenaean pronunciation. That is intriguing. The Mycenaean period was over 3000 years ago.
It is very well researched according to what is known as of today, ie ypsilon read as plain u sound, the gw that will gibe b in Attic and so on.
They didn't. This is just guesswork. 0 chance anyone from back then would understand a word being said or remotely recognise it. It's at best a pastiche. Dead languages are as reviviable as deducing chinese (mandarin?\cantonese?\japanese\korean) pronunciation from the characters alone.
Amazeballs!! As a Greek it's really nice to see how different my language is to that of the ancients
in percentage % how much can you understand?
@@claudioflocco7456 Based on my modern Greek language skills alone I would say about 20% Ancient Greek, if I try really hard it could be approx. 45%-ish, for Mycenaean it's even less, I'd rank it on ~10-15%, if I put my mind to it'd be like, 20%(?), the grammar and sound shifts on Mycenaean and this specific reconstruction of that specific era of ancient Greek (which I assume is meant to be Attic Dialect) make the language REALLYYY different, honestly had it not been a tradition for both of the languages both modern and the Ancient variants to be called the same I'd consider them entirely different tongues, which they pretty much are! :3 hope this helped
@@darlindear_dorothea How fascinating! As someone who studied Ancient Greek at university, I have the opposite experience to yours when encountering Modern Greek. It requires intense mental exertion to comprehend even just the words, as there have been many transformations. I completely agree with you when you say they are distinct languages.
By the way, the text being compared in the video to the Mycenean language is an excerpt from the Iliad, rendered in a form of Greek commonly known as Epic Greek. It embodies a poetic language, and usually contains many archaisms which fell out of use in Attic Greek.
@@dieguito65 Oh my goodness that's amazing! I'd love to know where you studied perhaps? 👀I wreally want to study abroad and I'd love to know of a university or college that has good Acient Greek courses!And I'd love to know which sources you recocomend for learning ancient greek as well!
Ancient Greek and ancienter Greek.
Can't wait for Ancieterer Greek.
@@basedkaiser5352 Proto-Greek?
Very rhythmical!
Yes! The Iliad was composed with that in mind. That's why the text in the video sounds so rhythmical, it was meant to make ancient Greek even more sing-songy
Of course, this is the metrical reading of the hexameter.
Because bards was so important to this culture, the Greek language was formed from the ancient times to be ideal for poetry / songs.
For example, the Greek Alphabet has a number of vowels that have the same pronunciation but they exist to signify length, musical time. Omicron and Omega both sound "o", but Omega is supposed to last twice as long as Omicron does.
Ancient Greek also has 3 accent marks. Where one is signifying a high frequency pitch, the other a low frequency (bass), and the third is in between. 😮 Modern Greeks don't use these though.
@@OrphicPolytheist Like many languages ancient Greek had phonemic vowel length. Omega and Omikron have nothing to do with music. Long O and short O changed the meaning of words.
@@OrphicPolytheist Well, languages evolve over time, long vowels were reduced and the tonal system became an accentual one. The same happened with the Latin.
Both languages sound great, as if the speakers are reading and singing at the same time. They remind me of the way Indians chant in Sanskrit and the melodies of Central Asian nomadic rhymes. ☺
My years of doubts were answered when the Internet became popular and it became known that they all had (partial) Aryan ancestry.
No coincidence. They are reading poetry. They are reading part of the Iliad. If you listen closely you’ll pick out words like Achilles and so forth.
They share a common Indo European ancestry not Aryan(which is Indo iranian). While I don't doubt some greeks might have iranian and hence aryan ancestry I think this distinction should be made given how easy it is to fall for racist rhetoric when we extend 'Aryan" to all Indo Europeans.
They should label this Homeric and Mycenean Greek. The "Ancient Greek" used here is the Epic Greek of the Iliad and Odyssey from about 800 BCE. It was an archaic version of Greek and mostly Ionic with some Aeolic. "Ancient Greek" van mean anything from Homeric, to classical Attic (what is usually thought of "Ancient Greek") to early koinē which is very close to modern Greek.
Mycenean Greek in fact has seven case like Sanskrit.
Sg loc: -oi, -ai
Sg ins: -o
Pl ins, loc -phi(n).
Then how would theos be inflected for exemple ?
@@cleitondecarvalho431
Sg nom theos
Sg ins teō/teophi(n)
Sg loc teoi
Pl ins teophi(n)
Pl loc teoihi
All of those aspirated consonants, the long and short vowels along with the rhythmic half chant of the hexameter verse actually made me think of Sanskrit. The Greek of Mycenae was spoken 35 centuries ago. This would’ve been around the time Sanskrit was still actively being spoken in India. It also makes it closer to Proto Indo-European then modern Greek does. so, I guess, the distant kinship between Mycenaean Greek and Sanskrit is more apparent then that which exists in their modern descendants.
Great video duo thanks.
I think Mycenaean w and y presumably were glided sound like Avestan, then if we have V(w y)V-like cluster which appear having long quality at a preceding vowel in later form that still don’t have any long vowel but V(ʊ̯.ʊ̯ ɪ̯.ɪ̯)V
Hmm, where does this Mycaenean Greek version of Iliad comes from?
like it a lot better than your "the sound of Mycenaean Greek" from a few years back. Would it be possible for you to reference your sources for reconstructed languages? I'm curious about some of them. Thanks!
Amazing! Andy, can you please make the language of Romania, Chad, Monaco, Indonesia, and Poland?😊
Cool video!
Just a tip: the "Ancient Greek" part should really be called Homeric Greek, as the language of the Odyssey and Iliad is a mash-up of different dialects and time periods. It was never spoken in any one place at any one time. The language that people usually associate with "Ancient" Greek is Classical (usually Attic), which comes way after, so that might cause some confusion.
Also, the "Mycenaean Greek" you've got there is Linear B. While it's true that it was used in Mycenaean Greece pre-Bronze Age Collapse, around the time the Iliad and the Odyssey are set in, the modern telling of The Iliad--neat and cleanly divided, with all its recognizable parts--wasn't really a thing until literacy came back around the 8th century BCE. The fragments of Linear B that we do have is mostly economic records and stuff.
古希臘字母很有趣，感覺像是象形文字，但是為什麼到最後沒有發展成像中文一樣的語素文字而是變成拼音文字呢？
腓尼基人發明的字母表改變了進程
@@guozak7179 簡潔有力的回答，感謝👍
Also because by the year 1000 a.C. the Mycenaean civilization collapsed entirely and the written form of the Greek language disappeared completely for two centuries. Basically the Greeks forgot about their old alphabet and, as the other comment says, got a new one from the Phoenicians
Οι Έλληνες δεν είχαν ποτέ αμιγώς δική τους γραφή. Εισήγαγαν την Μινωική Γραμμική Α από τους Μινωίτες.
Η υπόθεση της γραφής ήταν προνόμιο των γραφέων εκείνη την περίοδο. Χρησιμοποιούνταν μόνο για την λογιστική καταγραφή των αγαθών που συγκέντρωνε ο φεουδάρχης κυβερνήτης. Αντιστοίχως όπως στην δυναστεία των Σανγκ έχουμε μόνο τα χρησμαδοτικα οστά.
Η γραμμική Α ήταν συλλαβική γραφή όπως τα κινέζικα. Κάθε σύμβολο εξέφραζε μια συλλαβή ή μια λέξη.
Μετά την κατάρευση του Μυκηναϊκού κόσμου η γραμμική β χάθηκε. Οι Έλληνες εισήγαγαν την φοινικική γραφή και το φοινικικό αλφάβητο. Ήταν πιο απλό και πιο εύκολο στην χρήση.
Because Lineral B alphabet disappeared for centuries, known as the greek dark age, where most culture and writting regressed and disappeared.
Hello Andy!!!
I just wanted to ask do you need a volunteer for Marathi language or yout already have
Regards,
If so
I will try to find if I can will volunteer myself
In her video descriptions she has her business email you can email her and ask she is always open to people asking her and seeing what videos can be made
Nice!!
Please the modern Greek and either of those two.
It is fascinating who for example they had gwola and lo and behold 3500 years later it is vuli.
Mycenaean sounds so different yet so close.
Ancient Greek vs Vedic Sanskrit
Mycenean sounds a lot like Latin
Back then, indo-European languages hadn’t diverged from each other that much yet, so they were all relatively more similar.
I do hear a mention of Atreides. Oh yeah, Atreides referred to the descendants of Greek mythical figure Atreus.
What does it sound like?
andy please can yoy do the central american spanish accent please like guatemala el salvador honduras nicaragua.......
Andy, what is the font you use on your videos?
The one for the latin script
Hi! Mostly Gill Sans MT & Cambria Math.
I would love a video comparing Mycenaean Greek to Vedic Sanskrit. These will be two Indo European languages from the bronze age.
Wow it’s beautiful Greek Language you got here Andy 🤩🫡🇬🇷
what is this writing?? :o
I love this language i don't know why
Make a video on kodava language and the accents of kannada please😊😊
I need a volunteer for Kodava. Do you speak it? :)
No,but I speak the mangalorean accent of kannada but try to find a speaker kodava language I"ll try to do my best ☺☺☺
Request: Dutch and Japanese
Next:
Ancient Greek & Modern Greek
Why does mycenaen look like runic lettering?
Linear B, not an alphabet.
they are phonecians
@@supermavro6072 you spam nonsense under every video about Greeks, is your dad Greek or something?
Ου = ow, ū or ō
Ει = ē or ej
Damn I don't understand his words ancient Greeks and greek mythology language
I'm Greeks but neither a words I don't understand, only I'm speak Greek modern
ZEUS BLESS GREECE!
drop the pipe bro
@@supermavro6072 ????
@MrAllmightyCornholioz😂😂😂
Zeus vult!
@@supermavro6072 you do know that the old God still have worshipers, don’t you? Some claim never to have stopped worshiping them although in secret. Now, there’s an entire movement.
Mycenaean?
The Greeks, but even more ancient.
Сделайте пожалуйста Кумыкский и Турецский третий раз прощу
Do you want Minoan vs Mycenaean language?
Interlingua IALA pls
can you do turkish greek, egyptian greek and arabic greek ?
what
@@babyloniii slavic greek, arvanite/albanian greek, georgian/ponto greek, anatolian/trazbon greek....what the heII is greek ?
@@supermavro6072👏👏👏
He should do a video about Albanian and Caucasian languages since Albanians come from Azerbaijan.
@@supermavro6072Ξύδι. ..
Can you make German vs Austrian German language please?
greek is good the greece and sea ancients
Soqotri language, please
You reconstruct "enea" for nine in mycenian (which seems to come from *enew.n) however there are intervocalic w's in the reconstruted Iliad forms ?
As a Greek its good to see that I understand a lot of what is in the texts. However, the pronunciation of the words is not accurate at all.
Η προφορά τέλεια είναι! Θέλω να θυμόμαστε ότι η γλώσσα αυτή είναι εκατοντάδες ακόμα και χιλιάδες χρόνων! Ότι εμείς την μαθαίνουμε με την δικιά μας προφορά δεν σημαίνει ότι ήταν έτσι! Ήτανε πιο κοντά στα πρώτο ινδοευρωπαϊκά! Την γλώσσα που γέννησε την Ελληνική μας την γλώσσα!
@@darlindear_dorothea Συμφωνώ, αλλά η ερασμιακή προφορά είναι λάθος.
Well it is ancient greek and mycenaean greek, obviously will be different pronunciation
@@gnas1897 That's not erasmian! Erasmian is wrong but this is not at all the erasmian pronunciation, it's the one developped by Allen, which is a modern linguist who did a good research about the speech of ancient people. Stop thinking all is erasmian as an excuse to not accept that your language changed its pronunciation.
@@labasurasesacasiempre I'm not denying that the pronunciation changed...