Adam’s point about gaining perspective/earned knowledge from viewing in the virtual is very interesting. Essentially having the ability to try something over and over again in the correct “brain” scale to be able to translate into reality.
That’s about right. It’s of course only a contributor to the larger process, but it’s a new contributor, and significant additions to the toolbox don’t come along frequently.
I'm really excited by the prospect of modeling in VR. Could be the perfect use of the Vision Pro. Would definitely be more intuitive and it would help speed up the prototyping phase as you can just see it physically prior to printing it/building it. I definitely need try it out on my next headgear build for my channel. So cool! Cheers!
For as long as I've been involved with digital modeling tools - 21 years(?) - development goals have always prioritized the reduction of non-intuitive technical barriers. Progress has always been more easily had with organic sculpting tools. Have a look at the work of Gio Nakpil in Substance 3D. Hard surface modeling tools are harder nuts to crack and I'm not aware of methods for doing sophisticated HS modeling in headset. The same can be said of physical HS modeling. The technical barriers for entry are higher than clay sculpting. Machining, turning, woodworking are all helpful skills for HS modeling and have a built in technical learning curve.
Hi Dave, one of the things I notice about Adam Savage, is that 99% of the time he thinks literally everything can be done on a Lathe, because it's his preferred means of tool expression. I think someone who comes FROM the CAD side and designs for 3D Printing comes with a vastly different set of parameters, thinking about how something prints with overhangs and such and so Adam might design with the Lathe in mind, a 3D Artist might design with overhangs in mind, or post processing, or finishing. I think each of us has one Go-To design method and like an Octopus, spread out into different methods from there. I am curious how Adam will translate his physical design methodology into a 3D-Vector methodology. His custom light saber could be something completely funky once he removes his lathe machining background from his mental processes.
That's an interesting and valuable observation. Your framing may be a tad extreme to make a point, but point taken. We all have hammers of different sizes in our toolbox. Your line of thinking dovetails nicely with my general warning regarding the influence of tools. Not only do we need to be mindful of the influence of tools on outcome, but of our preference, familiarity, and experience with tools. It is often the case that I reach a point in a process when, say, a lathe would be an ideal contributor, but because I'm hopeless on a lathe, I go down a road that produces a different result that may lack the qualities I desire.
@@cinodrome I greatly appreciate your take on this matter. I am aware I am being ... dramatic. There was a time when ILM hired former Model Makers to code in computers but I think there will come a time when coders only know 'star trek' and we will lose all that glorious rust, paint jobs, tubes for a purpose and more. All that legacy Doug Chang and Lucasfilm 'used' universe will fall to the wayside in exchange for quick turns and profits. When Greeblies stop being the norm and rapid CGI becomes the norm, the overall feel of rust, dirt, and weathering will sadly change how we feel about tv and film. It will be forever changed by VR and 3D Modeling.
oh my gosh. i've actually started doing this about a year ago and i've been meaning to get back to using it again. Because i agree, it's gonna be the future of building concepts and everything.
The video is good. I never realized just how handy VR can be for making then any other makers tool can be. The model you are working on in it is pretty rad too.
Cant wait for Maine year 2 to start dropping. Regarding virtual design I think the element that is key that will resolve itself soon is the use of AI to intuitively translate intent to action in a 3d space. Its always the interface and depth of toolset that is the learning curve and can get in the way. This is where AI can be the missing link to make it a reality.
I love it when Adam and Dave work together! This was one of my favorites (builds). How appropriate that this is just before David goes back to the camp. Have a nice trip. Will you be working at Bates college this year? And lastly, what brand is the white out pens you and Adam use, and where can they be found?
Thanks! No teaching this year - straight to work. They're called Presto white out pens and they're not too hard to find. The internet can deliver, if nothing else.
For work, I was recently on a small-indie-cobbled-to-gether-on-a-budget-volume-set and something similar happens when you first load the virtual environment up. 'That ladder needs to move' 'The curve of that path is awkward for a shot I want' You see everything with new eyes when its at 'full size'. Its a bit weird when artists are changing the landscape around you in unreal. Your brain panics that a mountain is moving in your peripheral vision. weird.
Absolutely. A volume takes a big portion of this to another level. What it lacks is stereo. In 2015ish at ILM, we had something called The Cave. It was a small volume being hit with multiple stitched stereo projectors. While wearing stereo glasses, fully stereo objets and environments could be experienced. It was a striking bit of development.
Do I need a fairly beefy PC (no apples here; it's fine that way) to even consider getting a VR headset? As much as I'm uninterested in VR gaming, the 2D -> 3D -> Actual stereovision 3D is indeed a compelling argument. And as usual, thanks Dave for all the inspiration!
I can’t speak to this with great authority, but safe to say, it depends on how much you’re asking of whatever software applications that are running. Everything you see me doing here is extremely light and could undoubdedly run on just about anything. What you’ll find when you look at running a real-time engine into any PC tethered headset, is graphic card limitations. The headsets will define minimums.
I love this exploration of a fascinating question. The hyper-detail on top of poor geometry is a particular plague in the digital sculpting world, as you no doubt know, where ZBrush makes hyper-detailing turds really fun and tempting. :D As somebody influenced by the Arts and Crafts movement, I'm used to thinking about the opposite danger to the one you mention - it's possible to be SO divorced in design from the tools and materials that they no longer read as themselves in the finished project and the hand of the craftsperson is concealed or erased. Seems like this is a spectrum on which to deliberately choose a place to locate each project. I'd LOVE a technical breakdown of your workflow here, software and hardware wise. Cheers!
Brilliant, lovely observation. I'm a strong passionate member of the show-your-hand camp, and had never thought about its shoulder rubbing with the tool-impacting-outcome camp. It's all of a piece for me. Show your hand. Don't let the tool drive your hand unwittingly.
Digital tools used? With the standard disclaimer that the tool is vastly less important than the intent and approach...Maya to Unreal on a Windows PC built out with all the biggest numbers and capital letters.
@@cinodrome Like so many of these things, I feel like the lines of tension among these interests is like a spiders' web. Moving any one point slackens some areas and makes others taut in surprising ways. Vernacular Furniture for example is almost design-free in this sense, the design falls out of a process and some raw material (six board chests being the canonical example) That's definitely design being driven by the process, but interesting when deliberately chosen, and the resulting objects have a directness and frankness which I enjoy.
@@cinodrome Thanks so much! I've been doing 3D modeling on and off for twenty years and have recently started exploring digital sculpting, I wonder how this sort of model review might be integrated. Am I right that your headset is a Vive Pro? Are their hidden gotchas in choosing a headset for this kind of task? Would you buy the same thing today? Thanks so much for being so engaged in your comment section, it's lively and delightful in here - you set the tone from the top.
Step one. Check out Substance 3D and the work of my friend Gio Nakpil. You can't go wrong following his lead on all sculpting fronts - digital and otherwise.
Ah - interesting. I didn’t think of that as introducing politics, but of course you’re correct. It’s a one time thing because Harry happened to use my space to record an episode.
Adam’s point about gaining perspective/earned knowledge from viewing in the virtual is very interesting.
Essentially having the ability to try something over and over again in the correct “brain” scale to be able to translate into reality.
That’s about right. It’s of course only a contributor to the larger process, but it’s a new contributor, and significant additions to the toolbox don’t come along frequently.
I'm really excited by the prospect of modeling in VR. Could be the perfect use of the Vision Pro. Would definitely be more intuitive and it would help speed up the prototyping phase as you can just see it physically prior to printing it/building it. I definitely need try it out on my next headgear build for my channel. So cool! Cheers!
For as long as I've been involved with digital modeling tools - 21 years(?) - development goals have always prioritized the reduction of non-intuitive technical barriers. Progress has always been more easily had with organic sculpting tools. Have a look at the work of Gio Nakpil in Substance 3D. Hard surface modeling tools are harder nuts to crack and I'm not aware of methods for doing sophisticated HS modeling in headset. The same can be said of physical HS modeling. The technical barriers for entry are higher than clay sculpting. Machining, turning, woodworking are all helpful skills for HS modeling and have a built in technical learning curve.
Making Camp!!!! Can’t wait!
Coming up!
My 2 favorite TH-camrs in one video?
…for a limited time…
Hi Dave, one of the things I notice about Adam Savage, is that 99% of the time he thinks literally everything can be done on a Lathe, because it's his preferred means of tool expression. I think someone who comes FROM the CAD side and designs for 3D Printing comes with a vastly different set of parameters, thinking about how something prints with overhangs and such and so Adam might design with the Lathe in mind, a 3D Artist might design with overhangs in mind, or post processing, or finishing. I think each of us has one Go-To design method and like an Octopus, spread out into different methods from there. I am curious how Adam will translate his physical design methodology into a 3D-Vector methodology. His custom light saber could be something completely funky once he removes his lathe machining background from his mental processes.
That's an interesting and valuable observation. Your framing may be a tad extreme to make a point, but point taken. We all have hammers of different sizes in our toolbox. Your line of thinking dovetails nicely with my general warning regarding the influence of tools. Not only do we need to be mindful of the influence of tools on outcome, but of our preference, familiarity, and experience with tools. It is often the case that I reach a point in a process when, say, a lathe would be an ideal contributor, but because I'm hopeless on a lathe, I go down a road that produces a different result that may lack the qualities I desire.
@@cinodrome I greatly appreciate your take on this matter. I am aware I am being ... dramatic. There was a time when ILM hired former Model Makers to code in computers but I think there will come a time when coders only know 'star trek' and we will lose all that glorious rust, paint jobs, tubes for a purpose and more. All that legacy Doug Chang and Lucasfilm 'used' universe will fall to the wayside in exchange for quick turns and profits. When Greeblies stop being the norm and rapid CGI becomes the norm, the overall feel of rust, dirt, and weathering will sadly change how we feel about tv and film. It will be forever changed by VR and 3D Modeling.
oh my gosh. i've actually started doing this about a year ago and i've been meaning to get back to using it again. Because i agree, it's gonna be the future of building concepts and everything.
Great to hear.
it's so true, the temptation to refine a rough form to early is a battle I fight almost everyday. well said Dave.
Fight the good fight!
The video is good. I never realized just how handy VR can be for making then any other makers tool can be. The model you are working on in it is pretty rad too.
Thanks for watching. With any luck at all, future generations of VR hardware will make this workflow more user friendly.
My favorite channel. Love everything you put out. More people need to know about this channel!
Thanks so much!
Cant wait for Maine year 2 to start dropping. Regarding virtual design I think the element that is key that will resolve itself soon is the use of AI to intuitively translate intent to action in a 3d space. Its always the interface and depth of toolset that is the learning curve and can get in the way. This is where AI can be the missing link to make it a reality.
Perhaps. As with all things AI, I am comfortable admitting that I have little idea what things will look like in five years.
Great episode- watching the VR modeling is weirdly calming.
Thanks Jim.
Have you tried Kodon VR? You can sculpt directly in VR with your hands!
I just checked it out. Substance3D certainly has more development power behind it, at a price.
Love the premise and then taking that to practical experiment.
Thanks! Stay tuned, for a mere seven months or so, for the dramatic conclusion.
I love it when Adam and Dave work together! This was one of my favorites (builds). How appropriate that this is just before David goes back to the camp. Have a nice trip. Will you be working at Bates college this year? And lastly, what brand is the white out pens you and Adam use, and where can they be found?
Thanks! No teaching this year - straight to work. They're called Presto white out pens and they're not too hard to find. The internet can deliver, if nothing else.
Thanks! See you in Maine!
May I also suggest ( unless you have a plan in place) another 5 first projects video for the first video of year two?
This process video was incredibly informative
So glad to hear it.
For work, I was recently on a small-indie-cobbled-to-gether-on-a-budget-volume-set and something similar happens when you first load the virtual environment up. 'That ladder needs to move' 'The curve of that path is awkward for a shot I want'
You see everything with new eyes when its at 'full size'. Its a bit weird when artists are changing the landscape around you in unreal. Your brain panics that a mountain is moving in your peripheral vision. weird.
Absolutely. A volume takes a big portion of this to another level. What it lacks is stereo. In 2015ish at ILM, we had something called The Cave. It was a small volume being hit with multiple stitched stereo projectors. While wearing stereo glasses, fully stereo objets and environments could be experienced. It was a striking bit of development.
Do I need a fairly beefy PC (no apples here; it's fine that way) to even consider getting a VR headset? As much as I'm uninterested in VR gaming, the 2D -> 3D -> Actual stereovision 3D is indeed a compelling argument. And as usual, thanks Dave for all the inspiration!
I can’t speak to this with great authority, but safe to say, it depends on how much you’re asking of whatever software applications that are running. Everything you see me doing here is extremely light and could undoubdedly run on just about anything. What you’ll find when you look at running a real-time engine into any PC tethered headset, is graphic card limitations. The headsets will define minimums.
Thank you very much for showing your work process with this, and love your workshop its given me lots of ideas for my own space
Terrific - thanks so much.
very enjoyable watching two creative geniuses sitting across from each other and bouncing ideas off each other's foreheads.
We do have large foreheads. That is true. Genius is debatable.
I love this exploration of a fascinating question. The hyper-detail on top of poor geometry is a particular plague in the digital sculpting world, as you no doubt know, where ZBrush makes hyper-detailing turds really fun and tempting. :D As somebody influenced by the Arts and Crafts movement, I'm used to thinking about the opposite danger to the one you mention - it's possible to be SO divorced in design from the tools and materials that they no longer read as themselves in the finished project and the hand of the craftsperson is concealed or erased. Seems like this is a spectrum on which to deliberately choose a place to locate each project. I'd LOVE a technical breakdown of your workflow here, software and hardware wise. Cheers!
Brilliant, lovely observation. I'm a strong passionate member of the show-your-hand camp, and had never thought about its shoulder rubbing with the tool-impacting-outcome camp. It's all of a piece for me. Show your hand. Don't let the tool drive your hand unwittingly.
Digital tools used? With the standard disclaimer that the tool is vastly less important than the intent and approach...Maya to Unreal on a Windows PC built out with all the biggest numbers and capital letters.
@@cinodrome Like so many of these things, I feel like the lines of tension among these interests is like a spiders' web. Moving any one point slackens some areas and makes others taut in surprising ways. Vernacular Furniture for example is almost design-free in this sense, the design falls out of a process and some raw material (six board chests being the canonical example) That's definitely design being driven by the process, but interesting when deliberately chosen, and the resulting objects have a directness and frankness which I enjoy.
@@cinodrome Thanks so much! I've been doing 3D modeling on and off for twenty years and have recently started exploring digital sculpting, I wonder how this sort of model review might be integrated. Am I right that your headset is a Vive Pro? Are their hidden gotchas in choosing a headset for this kind of task? Would you buy the same thing today? Thanks so much for being so engaged in your comment section, it's lively and delightful in here - you set the tone from the top.
Step one. Check out Substance 3D and the work of my friend Gio Nakpil. You can't go wrong following his lead on all sculpting fronts - digital and otherwise.
Its your channel, so your decision...but if you're taking votes..mark one vote for No Politics, please. Safe travels to Maine.
Ah - interesting. I didn’t think of that as introducing politics, but of course you’re correct. It’s a one time thing because Harry happened to use my space to record an episode.
@@cinodrome also, Harry is not talking politics in that tiny clip. That line is literally just a factoid