@@poobank the "stop start " technology on new vehicles is supposed to save the planet & keep fuel costs down ( probably by around 0.00001p) it rips the arse out of the battery & starter which you have to replace far more often !! How odd that the cost of starter motors and batteries have shot up !! Average price for a new battery in the u.k. is around £400.00. It foesnt seem that long ago when the average battery was around £80.00.
I'm 67 and remember when vehicles were soooo easy to work on in the 60's and 70's. Things have really changed. Thanks so much for posting this. I just got a 2013 Explorer to replace a much older old but amazing vehicle. I am equally as amazed at what's under the hood today! Thank You Sir!
If you actually think about it tho while yes vehicles have become more complicated the access to information like this is absolutely crazy and makes working on your own car easier.
@@MrTaylorfenoglio - Well, today, yes. 40 years ago, I could totally disassemble and reassemble a GM vehicle with a $20 Chiltons manual and if I knew one GM, I probably could work on many other GMs. Today, with needing a tablet/code reader/scanner, computer, etc, it just blows my mind. I'm more of a parts changer that relies on diagnostics. In the old days (yes, I'm a fossil) I could walk up to a vehicle and have it talk to me and fix it without the need for today's technology. Then again, back then, vehicles did not have the reliability they have today but all of the sensors, etc. just blow my mind.
@@thomask4836 I totally understand. Diagnosing is the main issue that's hard even for sesond mechanics. That's of course the reason I'm here is because I can't diagnose battery saver error and communication errors in getting
A tangent on this video that may be VERY useful to cover is the BMS age reset process. Often times even dealers who replace the 12v batteries don't bother to reset this and the system still thinks the brand new battery is years/days old. And for those doing it themselves, they likely have no clue this needs to be done to optimize the charge/discharge behavior for the new battery.
I replaced the AGM battery on my wife's Acura TLX and asked a local Acura tech about a reset because it wouldn't reset with the procedure on ProDemand. He didn't know what I was talking about! Battery internal resistance reset
I am about to replace the battery in my 19’ from what I’ve found to reset BMS you can put key on without starting the engine, hit high beams 5 times, brake pedal 3 times. Cycle key off on and watch dash for battery light to flick. Would love Brians thoughts
I just replaced the battery in my Focus ST. Will be using FORScan to reset the BMS after fully charging the battery. I definitely would like to get the FTM perspective on the proper way/sequence of events to replace the battery and maximize its life. Also interested in his thoughts on coding the system to match the battery capacity. I’m in a similar boat as he is. About 6 miles to work. Thinking about hard wiring a battery maintainer connection.
Bmw requires this. It was funny when they implemented it and everyone was just complaining saying why would you need to program and new battery bla bla bla there trying to steal my money! These are people that don’t know how the system works and just screw themselves when there brand new battery is being cooked to death. You can tell the car it has a new battery and even change the type from agm to lead acid and the cca of the battery so it will charge it correctly. You can do this with your phone and a dongle or an adapter and a laptop. It’s not hard to do. Another cool thing with bmw is they always watch and store how your drives are and if your doing short drives that won’t charge it back up as well as the average charger percentage of the battery over that life of it. This makes it easy to see if there’s an issue with the car or the driver.
I unplugged the BMS on my 2016 F150 XLT 302A a few days after I bought it brand new off the lot. That was 190K miles ago and have had zero issues. Original battery lasted 5 years. I unplugged the BMS on my 2018 F150 Lariat 502A the same day that I bought it before even driving it off the lot. That was 124K miles ago and I have had zero issues. Original battery lasted 6 years. The reason that I always unplug the BMS is to disable the idiotic Stop/Start function. I've never had to reset or reprogram anything when installing a new battery. Never have had any kind of a charging issue.
I too disconnected when new 2019 no issues 2024 100000 miles. That Start stop is a too much stress on me. No starter. Range Rover.. no can do. Throws a fit! Says on the dash, emergency GLOBAL WARMING!! 😂😂
If I want to keep the BMS , where would I attach the positive and negative wires directly to the battery for my ham radio instal ? On the metal on top of the BMS ,like where you show the jumper cable attached , or on the battery post ? My radio instructions say to go directly to the battery with it fused as close as possible to the battery. This will be a 30 amp fused run. Ford is no help. They are afraid of the lawyers I guess. I am in emergency services and that doesn’t matter to them. Thanks for the great video. 👍🏻👍🏻
Your comprehensive explanation really helps. Feels like I’m back in school with a good professor who knows there are students in the class who are too afraid to ask questions, and preemptively answers those questions
Not sure about Fords, but most of the new foreign manufacturers have a similar system which called a VVCS (variable voltage charging system). This monitors the charging of the battery from the alternator so once the sensor detects the battery is charged “enough”, maybe 80%, it can stop charging, and now save that .0001 % power to save fuel. Kinda like the A.S.S. (Auto start/stop) feature. Both systems are designed to give manufacturers C.A.F.E. credits because these systems will supposedly save the consumer fuel, when in turn it is a solution looking for a problem. Just like many have found the solution to the A.S.S. button by programming it off or bypassing it. The VVCS can also be bypassed or disconnected so the alternator FULLY charges the battery to 100%, and thus eliminates any voltage irregularities and leaves the battery perfectly intact and charged. I myself have a few vehicles with the VVCS unplugged and even was instructed by a certified technician that some manufacturers have TSBs indicating that if customers come in with “electrical” issues with no codes thrown, to try the disconnecting of the VVCS to see if it rectifies the electrical issues, which according to the tech, most ARE corrected. This in no way has affected any of my “sensitive” electronics. This actually now guarantees the correct voltage is flowing to all equipment without going through a “sensor or gate keeper” that will open or close the charging system, which effects flow to sensitive electrical components, giving false/ghost errors!! Another stupid design that will cause more issues than the .03mpg it will save over the course of a year. Not worth it in my opinion. 👎🤮
I just dropped my 2021 F150 off at the dealer for two days last week for this exact issue. I assumed it was due to the battery going bad because I charged the battery and it did not fix the issues. They charged the battery and reset the BMS. Great info to know for when it happens again so I do not need the dealer!
I want to say that I have a 2013 F150 Eco Boost…and I notice I’ve been getting that message and I only commute 10 miles round trip to work….I put a trickle charger on there the way you showed…and now that message seems to stop… Thank you so much for a wonderful video and information!!! I personally appreciate the steps to take to do the job properly. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!
This video is one of your best. This applies to my 2015 F 150. I have a 2 way radio in for FD use. Every now and then truck won't start. I make short trips all the time. Thank you for making this video because now I understand what's going on.
I learn something new every day!!! I have a Gen2 Raptor. I changed the battery last year without resetting it, and a few accessories are hooked up directly to the Pos and Neg terminals. I guess I need to relocate them behind the BMS sensor. Hope this will fix battery drain issue!!!
Great video! I was thinking something was wrong with my 2021 truck. Now it all makes sense to me. My battery has been dropping in voltage because I’ve been off work for a few weeks. My normal commute is 2 hrs of driving and while working, I had zero issues with the battery. I can’t thank you enough for these videos!!
The age old problem of low mile trips. Same problem my grandparents have with their Church goin car, ended up installing a battery tender to keep the battery up during the week. Need a solar panel to charge during the day while at work. Great run through of the system and proper charging connections.
I had no idea that little current monitor on my 2012 supported that function. I now know how to charge a battery where there is a BMS on-board. Thanks again for keeping me up to date.
I absolutely love Brian and his channel and the vids he makes. If I crash my Tesla Model Y to salvage, the next vehicle I'm getting is a Ford pickup F-150!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Brian covers EVERYTHING crucial to these vehicles from around ~2000 to the present. GOD BLESS USMC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its excellent that we're all doing our part for the environment with this stop/start crap AND at the same time sacrificing the battery and starter in you vehicle ... and, at the same time, really just making the whole electronics system more fragile.
Have a 2020 F-250. I would like to know if a Battery Tender, with 2 AMPs charging rating, if properly installed (Following the video's excellent directions) will mitigate the issue.
Great video, Brian. Very informative. I imagine this approach to battery charging can apply to all new vehicles with a battery monitoring system so you've helped out those of us who currently don't own a Ford product.
So basicly, the ECM is working like a Dead Recogning Plotter, meaning that it doesn't actually read the battery voltage, it just figures that your battery is 4 years old and you've been charging it for 2 hours so it must be dead. With all of the battery testing equipment out there you'd think the ECM could actually test the battery on a continuous basis. I personally belive this is done to tie you to your dealer for any battery service. I know when I had my 2013 F150, I replaced the battery after about 5 years when I kept getting that shutdown message about the battery being low. I replaced it with an AGM battery of the same rating but the message kept popping up. I found that I needed to reprogram the ECM module so it would know that I put a new battery in, otherwise the system might overcharge the battery thinking that it was 5 years old. It was even worse with my wife's 2015 MB C250. After 5 years the OEM battery started to slow down so I replaced it with an AGM battery that was identical to the original. Six months later, I was at the dealer for another issue when they told me my battery was bad. They couldn't get it to take a charge and they would be glad to replace it and program the ECM for $500. I said no and left. That was two and a half years ago and the battery is still going strong. What drives me crazy is I can reprogram my BMS with a decent terminal but not the MB. They will only let you read the codes but you cannot get into the battery maintenance setup unless you're a dealer.
Thank god for FORScan. I had no clue about any of this stuff till I found it in the service tab. But the BMS really keeps the OEM battery healthy. My stock battery lasted 10 years and was only really changed out of precaution.
I always learn something new from these videos! I had no idea modern vehicles had these kinds of things. All of this tech makes my 2004 Ford Ranger look positively ancient by comparison. 😂
thanks for important info, Brian. My 2006 mustang gt 99,000 miles. Last few years only drove it about 2,000 mi a year ,never had a problem with battery. my wife's 2021 porsche 911 started to have intermittent warning light that front end lift needs service, sometimes sunroof tilt open function would close roof and then open again. I was told by dealer to use trickle charger to keep battery charged. she puts 3,500 mi on car every year. got trickle charger, now car works fine. car has start-stop system and electric power steering.
23 F150 Lariat Powerboost w/7.2 KW... Left me stranded once, no warning, wouldn't start even with a jump. They put a new battery in it. Today I started it up and got the 12 volt warning... I normally drive 45+ minutes each way. So today I drove it 45+ and when I got to my destination it still gave me the low voltage warning. Made it home and dug out a Battery Tender. I did not connect it correctly per your video but it did "work" as my phone app let me know the vehicle was not in battery save mode. I did switch it as you show (it wasn't charging that long in the wrong setup) My bigger concern is what the heck is draining this battery? The truck has under 15k miles. I also learned that there is a second battery in parallel with this one under the back seat. I don't have your gear so can't monitor amp draw but I am worried that the 3 AMP charger won't actually charge the battery because of the draw. I guess I will find out... Like the truck but it has been a bit glitchy, especially the battery stuff. -Edit1 I checked and the charger was flashing green indicating at least 80% charge...truck powers up but still goes into low power "kill" mode when shut off. I will top it off and see if it resets as described in the video... what a PITA.
DUDE!! This was very enlightening! I have a 2011 and have been getting the “restart engine “ message all the time. I’d charge the battery but now I know I was doing it wrong for the BMS to recognize it. Thanks!!!
I have the 2019 Supercrew with only 19,000 miles. So I drive even less than you do. I replaced my battery last year with the Motorcraft Max battery just to be safe. Because I knew that I use the battery more than normal. Fortunately, my FordPass Reward Points paid for it.
This seems great video to ensure the BMS knows what is happening when you are siting still, charging, key on, and looking at readings thru Forscan about the battery / BMS. It seems also that if you just connect a charger to the + and -- posts, conventionally charge the battery, disconnect the charger, then drive the truck, the BMS will see the battery states (volts and amps) and get an accurate read. I have a smart trickle charger thusly connected on my Ranger and the BMS does not seem at all confused. The BMS did tell me thru the Ford Pass App on my iPhone, that the truck was in Deep Sleep mode, which I stupidly ignored. For a week. Then I tried to start the truck to find it completely dead. I had to use a dumb 2 amp trickle charger to get the voltage up hi enough to then get a smart charger to charge the battery. Then reset the BMS (PITA). Now that the battery is fully charged, I keep it plugged into the smart 1.5 amp charger whenever it is parked. So all the electric that is on when the truck is off and stored, cannot drain the battery dead again.
Had to change the shift tube bushings on my old f-150 the other day. Checked your previous vids and just wanted to say thanks. Easy- peasy. My sister looked at me in horror as I explained I had to drop the steering column. I'm like no, no I watched this video on you tube. LOL
Thank you Brian! You explained this system better than anybody else has. But, maybe you forgot to mention, someone in the comments made a point about resetting the system after battery replacement.
Thank you! 2018 Exploder with the hall effect... Super short drive to and from work and I put in an AGM, changed the type in forscan and reset to a new battery and it kept getting weaker and weaker... I charged but it never seemed to relearn. Now I know to put it on the other side of the sensor. Thank you. You are an invaluable resource!!!
Perfect timing on me seeing this video.. I recently began working on a municipality fleet and quite stunned at all the battery charging and jump starting issues!!.. Most are ford products and believe this is relevant to some of them with shedding and “dead battery” complaints!! Thanks
Get out your wallet, spend time driving to the dealership, pay $120 for them to take five minutes to reset the computer, spend time driving home, continue enjoying your modern masterpiece of vehicle engineering. The gift that keeps on giving (you a bill).
I’m not sure if he’s giving you an answer, but I use jumper cables and a spare battery, connect the jumper cables from the spare battery to the leads while the original battery is still connected. Now you can remove your original battery and put in a new one, connect the leads and you will have never removed power from the system. Turn ignition on, hit brights 5 times, pump brake 3 times. Let sit for 8 hours for good measure…….be sure to hold your mouth just right.
Hi Brian…love the videos. I’m a former Ford tech with a 2021 F150. I’m curious to know what power up software version your truck is on. My battery was discharging rapidly with an 18 mile commute 5 days a week each day. I believe my truck was hung on one of the OTA updates causing the problem. I charged the battery and then left it disconnected for a few hours. Coincidentally, the truck completed an update 30 minutes or so after the battery was reconnected. I have since received a few more updates and and I can tell when they are being downloaded because the auto-start-stop won’t function and the cluster states it’s due to battery charging. A few days later, I get a notification that updates were downloaded and installed. Some updates aren’t successful with one attempt and require Ford to send it a few times before they complete. Once an update finishes and the battery is recharged, everything works perfectly until the next update is pushed out by Ford and the whole process starts again. Check you connected data on OASIS and it will tell you when OTA updates are sent and installed. Maybe this will help explain you battery discharge issue. It seems a little excessive to me since I found all the modules go to sleep within less than 15 minutes or so.
I have all the latest updates in all the models as of last month when I updated the truck to activate Blue Cruise. I have never had a no crank or even a slow crank situation just a perceived low SOC by the module but yes I know of the issue you are speaking about.
Would get that warning all the time on my 2019 Fusion Hybrid. I finally figured it out. I would leave the keys in the seat while it is in the garage. I stopped leaving the keys in it and problem went away
Just purchased a 2021 F150 and couldn’t figure out why my start stop feature has yet to work even at extended stops, this video explained everything perfectly and now it makes sense why mine isn’t working! I need to properly charge back up my battery!
ones again thank you for your information for free you have helped me learn so much more than a tech school ever did. but a warning for some toyotas you have to go straight to the battery for charging if you try to grab a ground from the body you can burn up a fuseable link on the negative side.
2004 F350 Crew 4X4, Still has the orig. battery. Even after having one alt go bad, years ago, it starts the V10 after sitting a week at 20deg f. Truly amazes me every time. Not sure, is the starter a gear reduction unit? Just cant imagine any battery lasting this long. Best of luck to you and yours.
Great video, I have a 21 as well. Last time in for service they kept it a little longer than usual, when I read what they did, “battery abnormally low, recharged”. Now I see why.😂
Your videos are always so good, so helpful. Amazing to me you don't focus even more on youtube. Between you and South Main Auto you guys have, literally, saved me $1,000s of dollars. TYVM.
Another great video Brian. Thank you! I have a 22PB and I installed a battery tender for times like now where I’m away for work and truck is parked for a month or so in the garage not being used just to help keep it topped off.
@@5GNV well I would think either that or just checking your SOC maybe once a week and develop a pattern of how much it degrades. So you know when to charge it. For me I live somewhat rural so I usually drive enough for it to charge back up and I use remote start to warm and cool it off so there’s that amount of time. I guess it would all depend on how much it’s driven.
@@5GNV No. Battery tenders are for when you don't drive the vehicle enough to keep the battery charged. I drive my car about once a month or sometimes once ever 2 months. I leave the battery tender on all the time. It's a modern one that only activates when the battery is low. If you drive often but not long enough to keep the battery charged, then use the battery charger/tender as needed.
Any issues with the hybrid system and the tender? I drive the truck on the weekends and usually short trips so it drains pretty quickly and always tells me it’s in deep sleep mode. Just curious if you have had any problems, and also if that message goes away once the truck gets a full charge in it and stays that way.
This is awesome, some of the new ranger next gen trucks had battery drain and dead problems within a couple days after parking, and cannot start the engine. the service tech told there was no problem with AGM battery and electrical system.
Wow thanks for the enlightenment! I’m going to check my F150 and Mustang right now as I leave them on a battery maintainer/charger when they see little use and I know I didn’t take into account a BMS when adding the quick disconnect cables. Cheers from 🇨🇦
Informative. Have delt with vehicles losing convenience functions like auto unlock on approach due to state of charge. Also had vehicles shut down in battery saver mode while trying to diagnose them even with a battery charger on, now I know why.
This video generates another thought, what procedures does the diy'er follow to change the battery, it seems you need a scan tool to reset to a new battery?
Great video, lots of info, love your channel. My question is with all of the loads on the system why hasn’t Ford put in a bigger alternator and regulator to be able to keep the battery maintained better? I would expect the system to be able to at least supply measured draw + some small charging amps within a minute or two of starting the vehicle with the regulator being able to prevent overcharging.
The charging system is more than capable of keeping up. F150 with start/stop comes with a 200 amp alternator "ford calls it generator" police units have a 240 amp. I know its the end of the world if you unplug the bms and you lose start/stop but short trips to work will charge the battery without having to put a external charger on it. Or anyone familiar with forscan can turn it off that way. No check engine light, just unplug the sensor. I apologize in advance for putting this info on here but people thinking the charging system in inadequate it is false.
Great information. I may or may not have added an accessory to my 2012 F150 that may have drained my battery. When I recharged said battery I didn't think about the BMS and it hasn't acted "right" since. That's in spite of the battery not having an issue starting the engine since the recharge.
Back in April of 2015, I ordered a new 2016 Lincoln MKX. The battery in that vehicle lasted about a year and a half. At that time, I was told by the dealer “Lincoln said you’d get a battery, but not how good it would be.” They also said if you weigh the OEM factory battery against it’s Motorcraft service replacement you’ll find that the replacement weights considerably more. In April I ordered a new 2019 Nautilus and that battery lasted about two years. I knew that something was up because the auto start/stop was intermittent and the power port that powered my dashcam would shut down immediately when I shut off the vehicle. Now here’s something funny with the ’19 Nautilus, after so many minutes the BMS turns off everything in the vehicle (even if you in the vehicle) with the exception of the power seats. Go figure. I have a 1986 Lincoln Mark VII that I purchased new. That car doesn’t get much use these days and so I disconnect the battery. I put it on the trickle charger (battery saver) about two to three times a year. That battery is now ten and a half year old, installed in June 2012. AND yes it’s a Motorcraft battery.
Yep, we've got an '86 Grand Marquis, 294k miles on the ORIGINAL fuel pump and driveline front to back! Anyway, battery just croaked this summer. 9 years, 8 months!
@@SmittySmithsonite We have come so far, right? OMgoodness a truck or car should be able to make weeks after weeks of trips without having to charge the battery IMHO. Best to all.
Thanks, this just opened my eyes, my 2019 wouldn't start this past winter, I did jump it, and I am old school, I grounded it on a bolt........started right up ...... thanks for sharing !!
It looks like you need to add a permanent connection for a battery tender. Have it stick out from underneath the hood near the headlight and plug it in when not in use.
Very good info and explains a lot of what's going on my 2022 F-150, My problem is after a 100 mile trip, with in 1/2 hour I get a message, it's going into battery save mode. This has happened 3 times after driving a long distance. Where do I go next?
Great job explaining the system!!! My son’s 2016 F-150 is having the exact same issue as yours. I explained that I don’t have to charge my “good battery”, my “good alternator” does that for me, however I do drive a Chevy. I’m sure we all can admit they’re a far superior vehicle!!! lol sorry I couldn’t resist that opportunity!! 😂😂Thanks again sir!!
This kind of information can be very important to anyone who is going to install any kind of aftermarket wiring. I know of a situation where someone accidently ran a 12V wire for a accessory through the hall effect current sensor on a F350 and it caused the truck to over charge the battery. It actually caused the battery to explode and caught the truck on fire!
Amazing video! Brian this video has saved me so much time and trouble shooting on my 2012 F-150 Lariat. Thought it was my alternator or wire issues on why my battery light kept coming on even after charging the battery "The Incorrect way" to 100% 🤦♂
I have a 2022 Edge ST, Im retired and live in a pretty small town, so I have short commutes. I was experiencing all these symptoms, a lot of things not working, checked the battery and found out it was dead wouldn't take a charge. Replaced the battery with a premium battery, but now i put it on a tender ( very high-grade smart teender) to keep the battery charged. I will say I dont know if my car was in limp mode with that weak battery, but after I installed the new battery, it was like a new car.
Thank you for all your work on this channel!! Just a correction. It has not been a trouble free truck. obviously by the need of this video. 😉 How often on your 8 mile commute do you stop and and engine turn itself off?
I have always charged my Taurus SHO with a Ctec charger connected to the terminals. The car sits a fair amount, especially during the winter. I guess I should change where I am connecting the charger. When I drive it, I drive it a good distance, so I am hopefully replacing what so used to start the car. Looks like a good reason to drive old cars.
I have been waiting for this video. I have a 21 f150. My auto start stop only worked for 6 months. Now my zone lighting, interior lighting and the low charge message on my sync 4 screen are issues. I have taken it to the dealership 3 times for the auto start stop and gave up taking it in before the other issues came up. For a year and a half these features have not worked in my truck and my local Ford dealership has been useless.
Thank you for a pretty timely topic. I've had my 184K mile F-150 give me the Battery saver message, even after a 35 minute drive, all at highway speeds, and nag about battery saver, but checking (3rd party gauge) the batt voltage, it would be a 13 volts plus. This gives me an idea of what to look for to insure the nagging is only there when it's for real. As mine is the ancient 2013 truck, I'll need to check the hall sensor as well and insure it is in the proper field distance for sensing, and go from there. Again Thanks!!!!
Battery voltage doesn't mean much on the surface (pun intended). There's such a thing called surface charge where if the battery recently had charge put into it, the voltage will be raised like this but the actual usable capacity may still be garbage and the moment you start putting a load on it, the voltage is going to tank again. This is why the old school recommendation of letting the vehicle sit and all the modules go to sleep before reading battery voltage for accuracy is still good advice. Brian kinda alluded to this when he mentioned the vehicle sitting overnight, key-off to let the BMS relearn the new SOC. Even the BMS needs to wait while things are settled down to get an accurate reading.
They have the percentage now due to the sync 4 system doing OTA updates when the owner schedules them or are needed. Oc if it is below the threshold allowed it postpones it. I’m sure there are more reasons but that’s at least one
Brian what are your thoughts on these newer style smart chargers that have the battery recondition option? I’ve had great luck with them bringing batteries back to life, but curious what the bms system makes of it.
My typical daily driving is only three and a half miles to and from work. Have had the same issue, almost seems like it has the effect of degrading the gas mileage when the battery is low... I get 19-20 mpg for a few days after an hour long highway drive on the weekends. Is the answer, bottom line, to put a battery maintainer on it? Nightly or weekly?
Great video and instructions as usual. Thank you for sharing your knowledge of these new Ford vehicles. I have the same issue with 8-10 minute drives and my battery was low.
If you are down to 9% SoC, you are already damaging the battery on any lead acid battery (AGM is just another method of making a lead acid battery) and battery life will be degraded. Anything below 50% SoC and damage is starting to occur, the lower you go the more damage that is caused. A LIPO battery you can go down to these low SoC without damaging, but they run into challenges in freezing temps. It's crazy that a 240A alternator (XL & XLT are only 200A) cannot keep up with the demand and causes a low SoC which will lead to premature battery failure.
I believe it's the software being very conservative on the SOC. Battery voltage was above 12.5 at the start of the video, so the battery wasn't truly at a 9% SOC. I believe the system is trying to protect the battery as much as possible, to keep it from dropping below what is likely a 50% true SOC at the battery itself. If it was truly dead he'd be in the low 11 volt range, with a true 0% being what, like 10.8 of the top of my head?
@@volvo09 I think you might be right about what the system is doing. Was forgetting the voltage drop with depth of discharge at the alleged SoC. I still have a hard time understanding why the alternator is not keeping the battery charged just because it is a short drive. It's a 240A alt, and the battery can obviously take at least 40a since the external charger was pushing that. Everything should be supported by the alt when the engine is on, so there must be some idle time where the auto stop/start engages and all the accessories are running off battery drawing it down. Or, maybe the system is thinking at 50% the battery is no longer viable, but the charging profile is programmed in line with that so it is not charging at the rate it should be, or something along those line.
@@wisconsineaglesfan7925 someone commented earlier that it's setup for fuel efficiency, when you are coasting and when stopping the charge rate goes more positive (trying to use more waste energy to drive the inefficient alternator). He said he had to inform a few customers on it who had noticed low voltage on an aftermarket voltage gauge who were seeing it randomly going up - sort of mimicking a failing alternator in a car "of the past". I had a slight introduction to that in my 09 Honda, at light load it only outputs 13.8v, and will jump to 14.2 when demand is high. Looks like these new cars play around with the voltage a LOT! Wonder what the owners manual says about it... I saw a note in a 22 Honda manual saying the vehicle needs to be driven at least one 30mi trip per month to keep from ruining the battery, and lack of use is not covered under warranty. Would be interesting to see a datalog of more of those battery pid's while driving. Wish I had access to the ford hardware and software. There is sooo much data in these new cars, they have advanced in ways that has everyone relearning what they knew!
@@volvo09 Forscan and a cheap OBD adapter (Brian has one linked in the video description) is a wonderful toolkit. This will get you just about all the same data from Ford's own official IDS software including a lot of dealer only functions for resetting/relearning/etc various modules.
@@Vchat20 I'll have to check it out. I was curious about forscan... That will probably get me to jump in and learn. I thought it was really only a configuration utility, but if it can access data pid's that's great!
Bingo on the battery slowly going flat. I found the start stop function no longer working was the first signal things were at the quitting. My truck is a secondary vehicle and is not a daily driver, thus causing the problem. I now use a battery tender that I hook up each time I park the truck and now all is well. Figured this out after no help from the dealer.
Excellent, Excellent video. Just charged mine the other day & wondered why the warnings regarding preserving the battery were still appearing. Thank you so much.
For me, it is hard to fathom that a modern vehicle that no doubt has at least a 100 amp alternator can not keep the battery charged driving 8 miles one way. Really? That would put Ford off my list. But I digress.>>> Thanks for this video
Battery light has been on in my 2003 Ford expedition for over two years. After I replacing the original alt everything seems to charging and works fine. But the light is still on.
I have a '11 F150 and drive two blocks to work. I know it's only two blocks but it rains every afternoon here. Anyway I bought one of those solar chargers that plugs into the cig lighter. When my accessories start dropping out the first to go is the Sync and the radio goes to am. Sometimes it takes awhile to charge enough so Bluetooth will connect. I'm not sure if the solar charger is putting out enough power but it makes me feel good.
Thanks for this video. I could not find this info elsewhere. The 0 degree temps last month played hell with my Nautilus due to my not driving enough and I wasn't sure of the proper way to charge the battery.
Best reason to have remote start when you have short drives. Fire it up and let it run and warm up for 10-15 while you get ready to leave charges the battery and melts the snow and ice.
The electrical systems of cars have sure become a lot more complex over the years so that today there are battery monitoring systems. Since I was born in 1951 I remember when all there was was a generator or alternator with a voltage regulator. The charging system did just one main thing, which was to maintain the proper charging voltage. However now with engine start stop systems the electronic controller has know a lot more about the state of battery charge. Also from this video, it sounds like this vehicle needs a higher capacity alternator that can keep the battery charged on short trips.
Comment.....This is the perfect example of making things way more complicated than it needs to be.
Right? C'mon Ford, do better.
This very same system is on most Nissan vehicles, and it sucks 😡
Seems batteries lasted longer with the older dumb alternator charging profile. Older cars are bulletproof compared to these
@@poobank the "stop start " technology on new vehicles is supposed to save the planet & keep fuel costs down ( probably by around 0.00001p) it rips the arse out of the battery & starter which you have to replace far more often !! How odd that the cost of starter motors and batteries have shot up !! Average price for a new battery in the u.k. is around £400.00. It foesnt seem that long ago when the average battery was around £80.00.
You're telling me. Disconnected it on an X-trail, vehicle fine ever since.
@@robert.wjohnson5726
I'm 67 and remember when vehicles were soooo easy to work on in the 60's and 70's. Things have really changed. Thanks so much for posting this. I just got a 2013 Explorer to replace a much older old but amazing vehicle. I am equally as amazed at what's under the hood today!
Thank You Sir!
If you actually think about it tho while yes vehicles have become more complicated the access to information like this is absolutely crazy and makes working on your own car easier.
@@MrTaylorfenoglio - Well, today, yes. 40 years ago, I could totally disassemble and reassemble a GM vehicle with a $20 Chiltons manual and if I knew one GM, I probably could work on many other GMs. Today, with needing a tablet/code reader/scanner, computer, etc, it just blows my mind. I'm more of a parts changer that relies on diagnostics. In the old days (yes, I'm a fossil) I could walk up to a vehicle and have it talk to me and fix it without the need for today's technology. Then again, back then, vehicles did not have the reliability they have today but all of the sensors, etc. just blow my mind.
@@thomask4836 I totally understand. Diagnosing is the main issue that's hard even for sesond mechanics. That's of course the reason I'm here is because I can't diagnose battery saver error and communication errors in getting
A tangent on this video that may be VERY useful to cover is the BMS age reset process. Often times even dealers who replace the 12v batteries don't bother to reset this and the system still thinks the brand new battery is years/days old. And for those doing it themselves, they likely have no clue this needs to be done to optimize the charge/discharge behavior for the new battery.
I replaced the AGM battery on my wife's Acura TLX and asked a local Acura tech about a reset because it wouldn't reset with the procedure on ProDemand. He didn't know what I was talking about!
Battery internal resistance reset
I am about to replace the battery in my 19’ from what I’ve found to reset BMS you can put key on without starting the engine, hit high beams 5 times, brake pedal 3 times. Cycle key off on and watch dash for battery light to flick. Would love Brians thoughts
I just replaced the battery in my Focus ST. Will be using FORScan to reset the BMS after fully charging the battery. I definitely would like to get the FTM perspective on the proper way/sequence of events to replace the battery and maximize its life. Also interested in his thoughts on coding the system to match the battery capacity.
I’m in a similar boat as he is. About 6 miles to work. Thinking about hard wiring a battery maintainer connection.
Bmw requires this. It was funny when they implemented it and everyone was just complaining saying why would you need to program and new battery bla bla bla there trying to steal my money! These are people that don’t know how the system works and just screw themselves when there brand new battery is being cooked to death.
You can tell the car it has a new battery and even change the type from agm to lead acid and the cca of the battery so it will charge it correctly. You can do this with your phone and a dongle or an adapter and a laptop. It’s not hard to do.
Another cool thing with bmw is they always watch and store how your drives are and if your doing short drives that won’t charge it back up as well as the average charger percentage of the battery over that life of it.
This makes it easy to see if there’s an issue with the car or the driver.
Our shop foreman makes sure it gets done. But yes, you're right
As a Ford Tech in the Philippines, i found it very useful to know .. I've been doing it wrong not until i saw your video . Thanks for the info ..
I unplugged the BMS on my 2016 F150 XLT 302A a few days after I bought it brand new off the lot. That was 190K miles ago and have had zero issues. Original battery lasted 5 years.
I unplugged the BMS on my 2018 F150 Lariat 502A the same day that I bought it before even driving it off the lot. That was 124K miles ago and I have had zero issues. Original battery lasted 6 years.
The reason that I always unplug the BMS is to disable the idiotic Stop/Start function. I've never had to reset or reprogram anything when installing a new battery. Never have had any kind of a charging issue.
You won't have any charging issues the BMS system just optimizes it based on battery age.
@@FordTechMakuloco Thank you for clarifying. I think most people don't realize that this system is not needed to charge the battery.
I too disconnected when new 2019 no issues 2024 100000 miles.
That Start stop is a too much stress on me. No starter.
Range Rover.. no can do. Throws a fit! Says on the dash, emergency GLOBAL WARMING!! 😂😂
@@kickingagainstthepricks4059
😂😂😂👍👍
If I want to keep the BMS , where would I attach the positive and negative wires directly to the battery for my ham radio instal ? On the metal on top of the BMS ,like where you show the jumper cable attached , or on the battery post ? My radio instructions say to go directly to the battery with it fused as close as possible to the battery. This will be a 30 amp fused run. Ford is no help. They are afraid of the lawyers I guess. I am in emergency services and that doesn’t matter to them. Thanks for the great video. 👍🏻👍🏻
Every time I do a big project on my truck, you’re the first knowledge stop for me. Thank you so much for all you do for us Ford owners.
I bypassed my BMS 60 k miles ago and about 8 years ago, no more battery problems.
Same here.. no more issues! Did it about 3 yrs ago. 👍
A very dumb thing to do. You just removed the battery protection.
So what's your fix? @@randyschultz6594
Your comprehensive explanation really helps. Feels like I’m back in school with a good professor who knows there are students in the class who are too afraid to ask questions, and preemptively answers those questions
Not sure about Fords, but most of the new foreign manufacturers have a similar system which called a VVCS (variable voltage charging system). This monitors the charging of the battery from the alternator so once the sensor detects the battery is charged “enough”, maybe 80%, it can stop charging, and now save that .0001 % power to save fuel. Kinda like the A.S.S. (Auto start/stop) feature. Both systems are designed to give manufacturers C.A.F.E. credits because these systems will supposedly save the consumer fuel, when in turn it is a solution looking for a problem. Just like many have found the solution to the A.S.S. button by programming it off or bypassing it. The VVCS can also be bypassed or disconnected so the alternator FULLY charges the battery to 100%, and thus eliminates any voltage irregularities and leaves the battery perfectly intact and charged. I myself have a few vehicles with the VVCS unplugged and even was instructed by a certified technician that some manufacturers have TSBs indicating that if customers come in with “electrical” issues with no codes thrown, to try the disconnecting of the VVCS to see if it rectifies the electrical issues, which according to the tech, most ARE corrected. This in no way has affected any of my “sensitive” electronics. This actually now guarantees the correct voltage is flowing to all equipment without going through a “sensor or gate keeper” that will open or close the charging system, which effects flow to sensitive electrical components, giving false/ghost errors!! Another stupid design that will cause more issues than the .03mpg it will save over the course of a year. Not worth it in my opinion. 👎🤮
I just dropped my 2021 F150 off at the dealer for two days last week for this exact issue. I assumed it was due to the battery going bad because I charged the battery and it did not fix the issues. They charged the battery and reset the BMS. Great info to know for when it happens again so I do not need the dealer!
Can't you just recharge the battery directly, then overnight, the system will relearn and see the new status of the battery charge?
Man I hope the techs at my local Ford dealership are 1/10 as knowledgeable As You Are
I want to say that I have a 2013 F150 Eco Boost…and I notice I’ve been getting that message and I only commute 10 miles round trip to work….I put a trickle charger on there the way you showed…and now that message seems to stop…
Thank you so much for a wonderful video and information!!! I personally appreciate the steps to take to do the job properly. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!
All good but I work night shift 12hrs lol
This video is one of your best. This applies to my 2015 F 150. I have a 2 way radio in for FD use. Every now and then truck won't start. I make short trips all the time. Thank you for making this video because now I understand what's going on.
I learn something new every day!!! I have a Gen2 Raptor. I changed the battery last year without resetting it, and a few accessories are hooked up directly to the Pos and Neg terminals. I guess I need to relocate them behind the BMS sensor. Hope this will fix battery drain issue!!!
Great video! I was thinking something was wrong with my 2021 truck. Now it all makes sense to me. My battery has been dropping in voltage because I’ve been off work for a few weeks. My normal commute is 2 hrs of driving and while working, I had zero issues with the battery. I can’t thank you enough for these videos!!
The age old problem of low mile trips. Same problem my grandparents have with their Church goin car, ended up installing a battery tender to keep the battery up during the week. Need a solar panel to charge during the day while at work. Great run through of the system and proper charging connections.
Shit like this is why I still drive a 30 year old F150.
And keep old appliances as long as possible !!
Agree with you not a fan of nes ford's
Once again you explain something fundamental about my 2012 F150 that I should have already known. Bravo and LOVE this channel!
I had no idea that little current monitor on my 2012 supported that function. I now know how to charge a battery where there is a BMS on-board. Thanks again for keeping me up to date.
Start stop disabled? Make it permanent
I absolutely love Brian and his channel and the vids he makes. If I crash my Tesla Model Y to salvage, the next vehicle I'm getting is a Ford pickup F-150!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Brian covers EVERYTHING crucial to these vehicles from around ~2000 to the present. GOD BLESS USMC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its excellent that we're all doing our part for the environment with this stop/start crap AND at the same time sacrificing the battery and starter in you vehicle ... and, at the same time, really just making the whole electronics system more fragile.
I use a battery maintainer once a week on my short distance daily driver. Run it over night. I use the post on the body. Great video
Does 1/week seem to do it for you?
Have a 2020 F-250. I would like to know if a Battery Tender, with 2 AMPs charging rating, if properly installed (Following the video's excellent directions) will mitigate the issue.
Great video, Brian. Very informative. I imagine this approach to battery charging can apply to all new vehicles with a battery monitoring system so you've helped out those of us who currently don't own a Ford product.
Is the BMS just on Ford products? Good info to know 😊
So basicly, the ECM is working like a Dead Recogning Plotter, meaning that it doesn't actually read the battery voltage, it just figures that your battery is 4 years old and you've been charging it for 2 hours so it must be dead. With all of the battery testing equipment out there you'd think the ECM could actually test the battery on a continuous basis. I personally belive this is done to tie you to your dealer for any battery service. I know when I had my 2013 F150, I replaced the battery after about 5 years when I kept getting that shutdown message about the battery being low. I replaced it with an AGM battery of the same rating but the message kept popping up. I found that I needed to reprogram the ECM module so it would know that I put a new battery in, otherwise the system might overcharge the battery thinking that it was 5 years old. It was even worse with my wife's 2015 MB C250. After 5 years the OEM battery started to slow down so I replaced it with an AGM battery that was identical to the original. Six months later, I was at the dealer for another issue when they told me my battery was bad. They couldn't get it to take a charge and they would be glad to replace it and program the ECM for $500. I said no and left. That was two and a half years ago and the battery is still going strong. What drives me crazy is I can reprogram my BMS with a decent terminal but not the MB. They will only let you read the codes but you cannot get into the battery maintenance setup unless you're a dealer.
Thank god for FORScan. I had no clue about any of this stuff till I found it in the service tab. But the BMS really keeps the OEM battery healthy. My stock battery lasted 10 years and was only really changed out of precaution.
My orininal battery lasted 10 years on a 2000 ranger, without all this complication.
I always learn something new from these videos! I had no idea modern vehicles had these kinds of things. All of this tech makes my 2004 Ford Ranger look positively ancient by comparison. 😂
Ancient is not bad.
But yo don’t have to worry about silly things like this.$250 battery and still using.50 cent battery ends
I guess shop’s will have a menu price for regular battery charging All to save a bit of engine load and a dribble of gas
But more reliable and maintainable..
@@alanmorrison3598 tell that to the rancher
thanks for important info, Brian. My 2006 mustang gt 99,000 miles. Last few years only drove it about 2,000 mi a year ,never had a problem with battery. my wife's 2021 porsche 911 started to have intermittent warning light that front end lift needs service, sometimes sunroof tilt open function would close roof and then open again. I was told by dealer to use trickle charger to keep battery charged. she puts 3,500 mi on car every year. got trickle charger, now car works fine. car has start-stop system and electric power steering.
I've been doing it wrong all along. Gonna put my charger on my 2013 F150 FX4 Ecoboost and see how this turns out. THANK YOU Brian!
23 F150 Lariat Powerboost w/7.2 KW... Left me stranded once, no warning, wouldn't start even with a jump. They put a new battery in it. Today I started it up and got the 12 volt warning... I normally drive 45+ minutes each way. So today I drove it 45+ and when I got to my destination it still gave me the low voltage warning. Made it home and dug out a Battery Tender. I did not connect it correctly per your video but it did "work" as my phone app let me know the vehicle was not in battery save mode. I did switch it as you show (it wasn't charging that long in the wrong setup) My bigger concern is what the heck is draining this battery? The truck has under 15k miles. I also learned that there is a second battery in parallel with this one under the back seat. I don't have your gear so can't monitor amp draw but I am worried that the 3 AMP charger won't actually charge the battery because of the draw. I guess I will find out... Like the truck but it has been a bit glitchy, especially the battery stuff. -Edit1 I checked and the charger was flashing green indicating at least 80% charge...truck powers up but still goes into low power "kill" mode when shut off. I will top it off and see if it resets as described in the video... what a PITA.
DUDE!! This was very enlightening! I have a 2011 and have been getting the “restart engine “ message all the time. I’d charge the battery but now I know I was doing it wrong for the BMS to recognize it. Thanks!!!
I have the 2019 Supercrew with only 19,000 miles. So I drive even less than you do. I replaced my battery last year with the Motorcraft Max battery just to be safe. Because I knew that I use the battery more than normal. Fortunately, my FordPass Reward Points paid for it.
Another of ford's better ideas.
This seems great video to ensure the BMS knows what is happening when you are siting still, charging, key on, and looking at readings thru Forscan about the battery / BMS. It seems also that if you just connect a charger to the + and -- posts, conventionally charge the battery, disconnect the charger, then drive the truck, the BMS will see the battery states (volts and amps) and get an accurate read. I have a smart trickle charger thusly connected on my Ranger and the BMS does not seem at all confused. The BMS did tell me thru the Ford Pass App on my iPhone, that the truck was in Deep Sleep mode, which I stupidly ignored. For a week. Then I tried to start the truck to find it completely dead. I had to use a dumb 2 amp trickle charger to get the voltage up hi enough to then get a smart charger to charge the battery. Then reset the BMS (PITA). Now that the battery is fully charged, I keep it plugged into the smart 1.5 amp charger whenever it is parked. So all the electric that is on when the truck is off and stored, cannot drain the battery dead again.
The more I deal with modern vehicles the more the late 80's would seem to be absolutely the pinnacle of everyday transportation.
Had to change the shift tube bushings on my old f-150 the other day. Checked your previous vids and just wanted to say thanks. Easy- peasy. My sister looked at me in horror as I explained I had to drop the steering column. I'm like no, no I watched this video on you tube. LOL
Thank you Brian! You explained this system better than anybody else has. But, maybe you forgot to mention, someone in the comments made a point about resetting the system after battery replacement.
Oh that will be a separate video on how and why you want to reset the days in service.
Perfect!
That’s my question
This comment should be at the top
Thank you! 2018 Exploder with the hall effect... Super short drive to and from work and I put in an AGM, changed the type in forscan and reset to a new battery and it kept getting weaker and weaker... I charged but it never seemed to relearn. Now I know to put it on the other side of the sensor.
Thank you. You are an invaluable resource!!!
Perfect timing on me seeing this video.. I recently began working on a municipality fleet and quite stunned at all the battery charging and jump starting issues!!.. Most are ford products and believe this is relevant to some of them with shedding and “dead battery” complaints!! Thanks
When you replace the battery with a new one, how do you reset the BMS data record?
This!
Get out your wallet, spend time driving to the dealership, pay $120 for them to take five minutes to reset the computer, spend time driving home, continue enjoying your modern masterpiece of vehicle engineering. The gift that keeps on giving (you a bill).
What is the answer?
I’m not sure if he’s giving you an answer, but I use jumper cables and a spare battery, connect the jumper cables from the spare battery to the leads while the original battery is still connected. Now you can remove your original battery and put in a new one, connect the leads and you will have never removed power from the system. Turn ignition on, hit brights 5 times, pump brake 3 times. Let sit for 8 hours for good measure…….be sure to hold your mouth just right.
You almost had me until the mouth thing. LOL.
HEY MAKULOCO when installing a new battery do you need to reset this?? can you do a video on it?
yup
@@Grindhousewatch2007 Thanks!
@@FordTechMakuloco 2021 Ranger any simple way to disable auto start/stop without messing up other electronics? The button is a pain. Thanks.
Trade it back in😅😅😅
Hi Brian…love the videos. I’m a former Ford tech with a 2021 F150. I’m curious to know what power up software version your truck is on. My battery was discharging rapidly with an 18 mile commute 5 days a week each day. I believe my truck was hung on one of the OTA updates causing the problem. I charged the battery and then left it disconnected for a few hours. Coincidentally, the truck completed an update 30 minutes or so after the battery was reconnected. I have since received a few more updates and and I can tell when they are being downloaded because the auto-start-stop won’t function and the cluster states it’s due to battery charging. A few days later, I get a notification that updates were downloaded and installed. Some updates aren’t successful with one attempt and require Ford to send it a few times before they complete. Once an update finishes and the battery is recharged, everything works perfectly until the next update is pushed out by Ford and the whole process starts again. Check you connected data on OASIS and it will tell you when OTA updates are sent and installed. Maybe this will help explain you battery discharge issue. It seems a little excessive to me since I found all the modules go to sleep within less than 15 minutes or so.
I have all the latest updates in all the models as of last month when I updated the truck to activate Blue Cruise. I have never had a no crank or even a slow crank situation just a perceived low SOC by the module but yes I know of the issue you are speaking about.
Would get that warning all the time on my 2019 Fusion Hybrid. I finally figured it out. I would leave the keys in the seat while it is in the garage. I stopped leaving the keys in it and problem went away
Hey Brian another great tutoring video you always keep your fans up to date on these Ford truck issues have a great day bro peace and love 💪🏿
Just purchased a 2021 F150 and couldn’t figure out why my start stop feature has yet to work even at extended stops, this video explained everything perfectly and now it makes sense why mine isn’t working! I need to properly charge back up my battery!
Yours could be turned off.
Thanks Brian good video is always. And this is a perfect example of why I drive a 99.
agreed
Amen to that!
Thanks!
ones again thank you for your information for free you have helped me learn so much more than a tech school ever did. but a warning for some toyotas you have to go straight to the battery for charging if you try to grab a ground from the body you can burn up a fuseable link on the negative side.
Does that turn the alternator on and off? Could you just remove the sensor? Or would it damage it?
Wow, good information even my local Ford service writer had no clue about. Thank you.
You would be surprized alot of dealers don't know you must flush the ABS brake system every few years
2004 F350 Crew 4X4, Still has the orig. battery. Even after having one alt go bad, years ago, it starts the V10 after sitting a week at 20deg f. Truly amazes me every time. Not sure, is the starter a gear reduction unit? Just cant imagine any battery lasting this long. Best of luck to you and yours.
Great video, I have a 21 as well. Last time in for service they kept it a little longer than usual, when I read what they did, “battery abnormally low, recharged”.
Now I see why.😂
Your videos are always so good, so helpful. Amazing to me you don't focus even more on youtube. Between you and South Main Auto you guys have, literally, saved me $1,000s of dollars. TYVM.
Another great video Brian. Thank you! I have a 22PB and I installed a battery tender for times like now where I’m away for work and truck is parked for a month or so in the garage not being used just to help keep it topped off.
I tell all of my customers to do that. Very few take me seriously until they have a failure
So is putting a battery tender on (nightly) the bottom line?
@@5GNV well I would think either that or just checking your SOC maybe once a week and develop a pattern of how much it degrades. So you know when to charge it. For me I live somewhat rural so I usually drive enough for it to charge back up and I use remote start to warm and cool it off so there’s that amount of time. I guess it would all depend on how much it’s driven.
@@5GNV
No. Battery tenders are for when you don't drive the vehicle enough to keep the battery charged. I drive my car about once a month or sometimes once ever 2 months. I leave the battery tender on all the time. It's a modern one that only activates when the battery is low.
If you drive often but not long enough to keep the battery charged, then use the battery charger/tender as needed.
Any issues with the hybrid system and the tender? I drive the truck on the weekends and usually short trips so it drains pretty quickly and always tells me it’s in deep sleep mode.
Just curious if you have had any problems, and also if that message goes away once the truck gets a full charge in it and stays that way.
This is awesome, some of the new ranger next gen trucks had battery drain and dead problems within a couple days after parking, and cannot start the engine. the service tech told there was no problem with AGM battery and electrical system.
The more I watch your videos the more I PLAN on keeping my '95 F250 5.8l.
Wow thanks for the enlightenment! I’m going to check my F150 and Mustang right now as I leave them on a battery maintainer/charger when they see little use and I know I didn’t take into account a BMS when adding the quick disconnect cables. Cheers from 🇨🇦
Informative. Have delt with vehicles losing convenience functions like auto unlock on approach due to state of charge. Also had vehicles shut down in battery saver mode while trying to diagnose them even with a battery charger on, now I know why.
This video generates another thought, what procedures does the diy'er follow to change the battery, it seems you need a scan tool to reset to a new battery?
Then they change what scan tool you need. yup!
Great video, lots of info, love your channel. My question is with all of the loads on the system why hasn’t Ford put in a bigger alternator and regulator to be able to keep the battery maintained better? I would expect the system to be able to at least supply measured draw + some small charging amps within a minute or two of starting the vehicle with the regulator being able to prevent overcharging.
have you noticed police cars are always running or plugged into an extension cord?
Cost, I would guess.
I was thinking the exact same thing!
The charging system is more than capable of keeping up. F150 with start/stop comes with a 200 amp alternator "ford calls it generator" police units have a 240 amp. I know its the end of the world if you unplug the bms and you lose start/stop but short trips to work will charge the battery without having to put a external charger on it. Or anyone familiar with forscan can turn it off that way. No check engine light, just unplug the sensor. I apologize in advance for putting this info on here but people thinking the charging system in inadequate it is false.
@@bukkalaraha maybe you could comment on my post you seem to have the answer I may be looking for
Great information. I may or may not have added an accessory to my 2012 F150 that may have drained my battery. When I recharged said battery I didn't think about the BMS and it hasn't acted "right" since. That's in spite of the battery not having an issue starting the engine since the recharge.
Back in April of 2015, I ordered a new 2016 Lincoln MKX. The battery in that vehicle lasted about a year and a half. At that time, I was told by the dealer “Lincoln said you’d get a battery, but not how good it would be.” They also said if you weigh the OEM factory battery against it’s Motorcraft service replacement you’ll find that the replacement weights considerably more. In April I ordered a new 2019 Nautilus and that battery lasted about two years. I knew that something was up because the auto start/stop was intermittent and the power port that powered my dashcam would shut down immediately when I shut off the vehicle. Now here’s something funny with the ’19 Nautilus, after so many minutes the BMS turns off everything in the vehicle (even if you in the vehicle) with the exception of the power seats. Go figure.
I have a 1986 Lincoln Mark VII that I purchased new. That car doesn’t get much use these days and so I disconnect the battery. I put it on the trickle charger (battery saver) about two to three times a year.
That battery is now ten and a half year old, installed in June 2012. AND yes it’s a Motorcraft battery.
Yep, we've got an '86 Grand Marquis, 294k miles on the ORIGINAL fuel pump and driveline front to back! Anyway, battery just croaked this summer. 9 years, 8 months!
@@SmittySmithsonite We have come so far, right? OMgoodness a truck or car should be able to make weeks after weeks of trips without having to charge the battery IMHO. Best to all.
Thanks, this just opened my eyes, my 2019 wouldn't start this past winter, I did jump it, and I am old
school, I grounded it on a bolt........started right up ...... thanks for sharing !!
It looks like you need to add a permanent connection for a battery tender.
Have it stick out from underneath the hood near the headlight and plug it in when not in use.
Geeze and I thought I would just need a battery tender on my 40 yr. old tractor !!!
Very good info and explains a lot of what's going on my 2022 F-150, My problem is after a 100 mile trip, with in 1/2 hour I get a message, it's going into battery save mode. This has happened 3 times after driving a long distance. Where do I go next?
Very good informative video. My mechanic said all the start/stop system is good for is for Ford to sell more batteries and starters?
system actually COUNTS the number of start stop activations. tells you to CHANGE the starter and or battery.
Great job explaining the system!!! My son’s 2016 F-150 is having the exact same issue as yours. I explained that I don’t have to charge my “good battery”, my “good alternator” does that for me, however I do drive a Chevy. I’m sure we all can admit they’re a far superior vehicle!!! lol sorry I couldn’t resist that opportunity!! 😂😂Thanks again sir!!
Learned something new today about my 2020 F-150 battery. Thank you!
If you don't drive alot you have to keep charging your battery! what a crock !!!
This kind of information can be very important to anyone who is going to install any kind of aftermarket wiring. I know of a situation where someone accidently ran a 12V wire for a accessory through the hall effect current sensor on a F350 and it caused the truck to over charge the battery. It actually caused the battery to explode and caught the truck on fire!
Amazing video! Brian this video has saved me so much time and trouble shooting on my 2012 F-150 Lariat. Thought it was my alternator or wire issues on why my battery light kept coming on even after charging the battery "The Incorrect way" to 100% 🤦♂
I have a 2022 Edge ST, Im retired and live in a pretty small town, so I have short commutes. I was experiencing all these symptoms, a lot of things not working, checked the battery and found out it was dead wouldn't take a charge. Replaced the battery with a premium battery, but now i put it on a tender ( very high-grade smart teender) to keep the battery charged. I will say I dont know if my car was in limp mode with that weak battery, but after I installed the new battery, it was like a new car.
Great video!, How do we reset the battery life? Do we have to pay Ford?
@51AB I'll tell that to my boss. :)
Thank you for all your work on this channel!!
Just a correction. It has not been a trouble free truck. obviously by the need of this video. 😉
How often on your 8 mile commute do you stop and and engine turn itself off?
I have always charged my Taurus SHO with a Ctec charger connected to the terminals. The car sits a fair amount, especially during the winter. I guess I should change where I am connecting the charger. When I drive it, I drive it a good distance, so I am hopefully replacing what so used to start the car. Looks like a good reason to drive old cars.
Excellent timing, I've been dealing with the system off to save battery for awhile now. Excellent explanation on it 👍
I have been waiting for this video. I have a 21 f150. My auto start stop only worked for 6 months. Now my zone lighting, interior lighting and the low charge message on my sync 4 screen are issues. I have taken it to the dealership 3 times for the auto start stop and gave up taking it in before the other issues came up. For a year and a half these features have not worked in my truck and my local Ford dealership has been useless.
Thank you for a pretty timely topic. I've had my 184K mile F-150 give me the Battery saver message, even after a 35 minute drive, all at highway speeds, and nag about battery saver, but checking (3rd party gauge) the batt voltage, it would be a 13 volts plus. This gives me an idea of what to look for to insure the nagging is only there when it's for real. As mine is the ancient 2013 truck, I'll need to check the hall sensor as well and insure it is in the proper field distance for sensing, and go from there. Again Thanks!!!!
Battery voltage doesn't mean much on the surface (pun intended). There's such a thing called surface charge where if the battery recently had charge put into it, the voltage will be raised like this but the actual usable capacity may still be garbage and the moment you start putting a load on it, the voltage is going to tank again.
This is why the old school recommendation of letting the vehicle sit and all the modules go to sleep before reading battery voltage for accuracy is still good advice. Brian kinda alluded to this when he mentioned the vehicle sitting overnight, key-off to let the BMS relearn the new SOC. Even the BMS needs to wait while things are settled down to get an accurate reading.
Voltage means almost nothing about battery health.
at least you know your alternator is working, but next step is to test the battery.
When you install a new battery is a reset procedure for the battery days at the BCM
yes
Awesome information. I knew vehicles monitored current flow for quite some years, but didn't know it was updating a state of charge PID.
They have the percentage now due to the sync 4 system doing OTA updates when the owner schedules them or are needed. Oc if it is below the threshold allowed it postpones it. I’m sure there are more reasons but that’s at least one
Do I need to do something special to change the battery in my 2016 F150? For example... do I need to take it to the dealer for a reboot
No start stop is that really a bad thing 🤷♂️ lol very informative
Thanks for another quality vid on how these newer systems work!!! Ford should use Your videos in their training facilities !!
Huh, and I thought my old beat up craftsman charger wasn't working properly anymore. Very nice. Thanks
Brian what are your thoughts on these newer style smart chargers that have the battery recondition option? I’ve had great luck with them bringing batteries back to life, but curious what the bms system makes of it.
I have had good luck with them also we had one at the dealer.
My typical daily driving is only three and a half miles to and from work. Have had the same issue, almost seems like it has the effect of degrading the gas mileage when the battery is low... I get 19-20 mpg for a few days after an hour long highway drive on the weekends.
Is the answer, bottom line, to put a battery maintainer on it? Nightly or weekly?
This information came just in time I have a 2014 F-150 and I was wondering why my battery tester wouldn't work. Thanks a lot 👍🏾
Great video and instructions as usual. Thank you for sharing your knowledge of these new Ford vehicles. I have the same issue with 8-10 minute drives and my battery was low.
You have to charge the battery even if you bought a brand new one?
If you are down to 9% SoC, you are already damaging the battery on any lead acid battery (AGM is just another method of making a lead acid battery) and battery life will be degraded. Anything below 50% SoC and damage is starting to occur, the lower you go the more damage that is caused. A LIPO battery you can go down to these low SoC without damaging, but they run into challenges in freezing temps.
It's crazy that a 240A alternator (XL & XLT are only 200A) cannot keep up with the demand and causes a low SoC which will lead to premature battery failure.
I believe it's the software being very conservative on the SOC. Battery voltage was above 12.5 at the start of the video, so the battery wasn't truly at a 9% SOC.
I believe the system is trying to protect the battery as much as possible, to keep it from dropping below what is likely a 50% true SOC at the battery itself. If it was truly dead he'd be in the low 11 volt range, with a true 0% being what, like 10.8 of the top of my head?
@@volvo09 I think you might be right about what the system is doing. Was forgetting the voltage drop with depth of discharge at the alleged SoC.
I still have a hard time understanding why the alternator is not keeping the battery charged just because it is a short drive. It's a 240A alt, and the battery can obviously take at least 40a since the external charger was pushing that. Everything should be supported by the alt when the engine is on, so there must be some idle time where the auto stop/start engages and all the accessories are running off battery drawing it down.
Or, maybe the system is thinking at 50% the battery is no longer viable, but the charging profile is programmed in line with that so it is not charging at the rate it should be, or something along those line.
@@wisconsineaglesfan7925 someone commented earlier that it's setup for fuel efficiency, when you are coasting and when stopping the charge rate goes more positive (trying to use more waste energy to drive the inefficient alternator). He said he had to inform a few customers on it who had noticed low voltage on an aftermarket voltage gauge who were seeing it randomly going up - sort of mimicking a failing alternator in a car "of the past".
I had a slight introduction to that in my 09 Honda, at light load it only outputs 13.8v, and will jump to 14.2 when demand is high. Looks like these new cars play around with the voltage a LOT!
Wonder what the owners manual says about it... I saw a note in a 22 Honda manual saying the vehicle needs to be driven at least one 30mi trip per month to keep from ruining the battery, and lack of use is not covered under warranty.
Would be interesting to see a datalog of more of those battery pid's while driving. Wish I had access to the ford hardware and software. There is sooo much data in these new cars, they have advanced in ways that has everyone relearning what they knew!
@@volvo09 Forscan and a cheap OBD adapter (Brian has one linked in the video description) is a wonderful toolkit. This will get you just about all the same data from Ford's own official IDS software including a lot of dealer only functions for resetting/relearning/etc various modules.
@@Vchat20 I'll have to check it out. I was curious about forscan... That will probably get me to jump in and learn. I thought it was really only a configuration utility, but if it can access data pid's that's great!
Bingo on the battery slowly going flat. I found the start stop function no longer working was the first signal things were at the quitting. My truck is a secondary vehicle and is not a daily driver, thus causing the problem. I now use a battery tender that I hook up each time I park the truck and now all is well. Figured this out after no help from the dealer.
I'd call that a problem.
Excellent, Excellent video. Just charged mine the other day & wondered why the warnings regarding preserving the battery were still appearing. Thank you so much.
For me, it is hard to fathom that a modern vehicle that no doubt has at least a 100 amp alternator can not keep the battery charged driving 8 miles one way. Really? That would put Ford off my list. But I digress.>>> Thanks for this video
Battery light has been on in my 2003 Ford expedition for over two years. After I replacing the original alt everything seems to charging and works fine. But the light is still on.
My "69 Dart had none of these problems.
Your ‘69 Dodge was a PITA to start on a cold winter morning.
@@cwqrpportable Nah, just pump the gas pedal a few times and the power delivery was noticeable due to the cold air.
I have a '11 F150 and drive two blocks to work. I know it's only two blocks but it rains every afternoon here. Anyway I bought one of those solar chargers that plugs into the cig lighter. When my accessories start dropping out the first to go is the Sync and the radio goes to am. Sometimes it takes awhile to charge enough so Bluetooth will connect. I'm not sure if the solar charger is putting out enough power but it makes me feel good.
Awesome information about the modern systems. Thanks Brian for the great information 👍
Thank you Brian. If you were to charge directly at the posts, wouldn't the SOC update the next time you start the engine?
One would hope, since it would be monitoring voltage and current flow when running. But they likely overthought that.
Thanks for this video. I could not find this info elsewhere. The 0 degree temps last month played hell with my Nautilus due to my not driving enough and I wasn't sure of the proper way to charge the battery.
Best reason to have remote start when you have short drives. Fire it up and let it run and warm up for 10-15 while you get ready to leave charges the battery and melts the snow and ice.
We do that at the dealership for the lot cars.
Wastes gas.
The electrical systems of cars have sure become a lot more complex over the years so that today there are battery monitoring systems. Since I was born in 1951 I remember when all there was was a generator or alternator with a voltage regulator. The charging system did just one main thing, which was to maintain the proper charging voltage. However now with engine start stop systems the electronic controller has know a lot more about the state of battery charge. Also from this video, it sounds like this vehicle needs a higher capacity alternator that can keep the battery charged on short trips.
Wait till you have to buy a starter for one of these stop starts! $500.00 will go real fast !!