Hi! Great video, just a few notes on concealment vs disavantage. You can find if disavantage (DIS) is better or worse than Concealed with some calculations, when something is concealed to you it means you have 20% change of not being able to target it (by rolling 1,2,3 or 4), so it means your chances to hit are decreased by 20%. To calculate how advantege changes your chances you can calculate the following way: being 'x' a number between 0 an 1 your chances to hit (fifty percent to hit would be 0.5), with disavantage you must hit twice - in both dices - so your to hit chance is x^2, bellow the table shows how much your standard (STD) chances are decreased, so if an attack has a decrease lower than 20, it means concealment is better than disavantage. By looking at the table we get if an enemy has 30%-70% to hit, Dnd/D20 is better, otherwise pathfinder takes the win. In pathfinder, however, as we have the +10 crit, and most of the bosses hit on 4 or less (life is hard), the concealment is actually better than disavantage! To Hit % Table STD | DIS | Decrease ------------------------- 5 | 0.25 | 4.75 10 | 1 | 9 15 | 2.25 | 12.75 20 | 4 | 16 25 | 6.25 | 18.75 30 | 9 | 21 35 | 12.25 | 22.75 40 | 16 | 24 45 | 20.25 | 24.75 50 | 25 | 25 55 | 30.25 | 24.75 60 | 36 | 24 65 | 42.25 | 22.75 70 | 49 | 21 75 | 56.25 | 18.75 80 | 64 | 16 85 | 72.25 | 12.75 90 | 81 | 9 95 | 90.25 | 4.75
Thank you for the table and the information. I have seen concealment be very good when fighting/running cinder rats. Another thing that is worth noting in DC20 is that you can give yourself advantage for 1 action point. It does hurt action economy, but it can be overcome. On the other side of the equation, with stacking disadvantage, the fog could be one of many sources of disadvantage. It would be possible to have double or triple disadvantage once other effects get stacked on. Anyway, thank you again for such a well thought out comment! Thank you for continuing to Roll With Us!
@@RollWithUsDMs Yeah, double or more disavantage is really awesome, in the case of rolling three times and taking the lowest, d20 would be better on % to hit 25%-85%, with rolling four times and taking the lowest it would be 25%-90%, Another thing to consider is the condition blinded in path2e - caused by darkness or other spells, for example - halves the chances - you must roll 11 on a flat check.
This kind of analysis really helps people like me (haven't played yet) , get a sense of how things work and how choices matter. Refocused is a great name. I remember in 5e I'd always be reluctant to spend my fog clouds when preparing an attack, and reluctant to cast them in the moment for fear of wasting a turn (when it feels like the demand is to maximize # of attacks or using as much movement as possible to flee). The results being dependent on number of 5's seems like it should be a big change. Not so reliable, but possibly really useful (the entire battlefield???). Difficult terrain seems like it could be even bigger (a more reliable means of escape if enemies have slower movement? ) ... so, basically: "yeah👍" :)
Thank you for Rolling With Us! In 5e, Fog Cloud works really good because of how Advantage and Disadvantage work in that system. Since 1 instance of Disadvantage wipes out all sources of Advantage, someone could have 3 things giving them Advantage and this will remove all of it. The opposite is also true. Someone can be at long range (Disadvantage), attacking a creature who is dodging (Disadvantage), in a Fog Cloud (Disadvantage), but have 1 feature giving advantage and it becomes a normal roll. In DC20, those instances of Advantage and Disadvantage stack, so they only cancel each other on a 1-1 basis, meaning you need an equal number of instances of Advantage to overcome an equal number of Disadvantage. Also, you can have multiple instances of Advantage or Disadvantage on a roll.
With a base movement of 5 spaces, difficult terrain will only let you move 2 spaces (unless DC20 rounds up difficult terrain movement. Ill have to look into that) in difficult terrain. More than anything though, it makes logical sense that you would move slower in fog.
Hi! Great video, just a few notes on concealment vs disavantage. You can find if disavantage (DIS) is better or worse than Concealed with some calculations, when something is concealed to you it means you have 20% change of not being able to target it (by rolling 1,2,3 or 4), so it means your chances to hit are decreased by 20%. To calculate how advantege changes your chances you can calculate the following way: being 'x' a number between 0 an 1 your chances to hit (fifty percent to hit would be 0.5), with disavantage you must hit twice - in both dices - so your to hit chance is x^2, bellow the table shows how much your standard (STD) chances are decreased, so if an attack has a decrease lower than 20, it means concealment is better than disavantage. By looking at the table we get if an enemy has 30%-70% to hit, Dnd/D20 is better, otherwise pathfinder takes the win. In pathfinder, however, as we have the +10 crit, and most of the bosses hit on 4 or less (life is hard), the concealment is actually better than disavantage!
To Hit % Table
STD | DIS | Decrease
-------------------------
5 | 0.25 | 4.75
10 | 1 | 9
15 | 2.25 | 12.75
20 | 4 | 16
25 | 6.25 | 18.75
30 | 9 | 21
35 | 12.25 | 22.75
40 | 16 | 24
45 | 20.25 | 24.75
50 | 25 | 25
55 | 30.25 | 24.75
60 | 36 | 24
65 | 42.25 | 22.75
70 | 49 | 21
75 | 56.25 | 18.75
80 | 64 | 16
85 | 72.25 | 12.75
90 | 81 | 9
95 | 90.25 | 4.75
Thank you for the table and the information. I have seen concealment be very good when fighting/running cinder rats.
Another thing that is worth noting in DC20 is that you can give yourself advantage for 1 action point. It does hurt action economy, but it can be overcome.
On the other side of the equation, with stacking disadvantage, the fog could be one of many sources of disadvantage. It would be possible to have double or triple disadvantage once other effects get stacked on.
Anyway, thank you again for such a well thought out comment! Thank you for continuing to Roll With Us!
@@RollWithUsDMs Yeah, double or more disavantage is really awesome, in the case of rolling three times and taking the lowest, d20 would be better on % to hit 25%-85%, with rolling four times and taking the lowest it would be 25%-90%, Another thing to consider is the condition blinded in path2e - caused by darkness or other spells, for example - halves the chances - you must roll 11 on a flat check.
@@viniciusaraujo481 I really appreciate your involvement with the comment section. Your insight is super helpful!
This kind of analysis really helps people like me (haven't played yet) , get a sense of how things work and how choices matter. Refocused is a great name.
I remember in 5e I'd always be reluctant to spend my fog clouds when preparing an attack, and reluctant to cast them in the moment for fear of wasting a turn (when it feels like the demand is to maximize # of attacks or using as much movement as possible to flee).
The results being dependent on number of 5's seems like it should be a big change. Not so reliable, but possibly really useful (the entire battlefield???). Difficult terrain seems like it could be even bigger (a more reliable means of escape if enemies have slower movement? )
... so, basically: "yeah👍" :)
Thank you for Rolling With Us!
In 5e, Fog Cloud works really good because of how Advantage and Disadvantage work in that system. Since 1 instance of Disadvantage wipes out all sources of Advantage, someone could have 3 things giving them Advantage and this will remove all of it.
The opposite is also true. Someone can be at long range (Disadvantage), attacking a creature who is dodging (Disadvantage), in a Fog Cloud (Disadvantage), but have 1 feature giving advantage and it becomes a normal roll.
In DC20, those instances of Advantage and Disadvantage stack, so they only cancel each other on a 1-1 basis, meaning you need an equal number of instances of Advantage to overcome an equal number of Disadvantage. Also, you can have multiple instances of Advantage or Disadvantage on a roll.
@@RollWithUsDMs Do you think that the difficult terrain effect will make much of a difference in DC20 for escaping combat?
With a base movement of 5 spaces, difficult terrain will only let you move 2 spaces (unless DC20 rounds up difficult terrain movement. Ill have to look into that) in difficult terrain.
More than anything though, it makes logical sense that you would move slower in fog.
🙂👍🏻
Thank you for Rolling With Us! Always great to see you in the comments!