This episode was recorded on 21st September 2024. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not let SVB know on his stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) The best way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-september-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265
I think the main problem is they just kind of took gold and painted it green…lol like might as well call it metallic green or something. Looks nothing like Jade and it just has a different shimmering effect than the Gold.
Yea it has nothing to do with the color, it has everything to do with the texture, tonality, and presentation of it. Actual Jade looks awesome and it could too in this game, but somehow they fumbled so hard and made it looked like metallic spraypainted plastic rather than an actual type of gemstone
The problem is like you said It's not jade it's just gold with a green shade They didn't actually put work in to make this skin look how it's supposed to so it just looks terrible
@@SteveFardhonestly he made some great points about clash, push and escort. The problem is how he answers by interrupting and how he phrases those answers
Amazing line up, gonna be fun to listen to this one. As always thank you for this great podcast SVB! ♡ Edit: To add on, Pharah did get a 'egyptian' themed skin, it was showcased in the trailer, Neffarti, they just haven't released it yet.
Avrl forgets that after you push the bot to middle after the enemy has a big advantage, it denies THEM push meters after THEY win the next fight, since they’ll have to push all the way back too. You still get value from winning fights in the form of denying your enemy meters. In addition, since your spawn is closer, you’ll be able to re-contest quicker and get early picks on your team back to the fight quicker if it lasts long enough. So, like spilo says, it is balanced. The value just isn’t intuitive since you deny the opponent points instead of instantly starting to gain some yourself. To get the lead back the team should have to win MORE fights than the opponent, not equal. Having to push the bot back ensures that (unless the opponent has more mobility and can come back quicker)
Watching avrl spew takes and then not even pay attention to the takes someone else has just to come back to paying attention and cutting them off is infuriating. Man literally is reading and typing on his second monitor half the time spilo is even talking to him
Avrl carried this pod hard I don't know what you all are talking about. Don't agree with him on everything but he atleast articulates himself well and brings interesting topics to the discussion. Let's be honest you're just mad spilo got cooked.
@@ironman1458 “got cooked?” Brother they aren’t fighting 💀 this isn’t som presidential debate. The guy can barely let someone talk before he interrupts with something that isn’t even relevant half of the time
@@cbuub11 Well judging by the fact you ignored everything I said and hyper fixated on the part I claimed you are mad about I'm gonna carry on thinking thats what youre mad about. Especially cause spilo does the exact same thing cutting people off for no reason when he literally agrees with what is being said
@@ironman1458 listen man, I don’t care intensely enough to argue with some random dude named ironman in a comments section. Claim what you want, I’m not here preaching to never have avrl back on or something, I don’t hate the guy, I just found it disrespectful that half the time he was in a one on one conversation about something with someone, he’s on his second monitor typing or reading, until he has another interruption to make that has half a chance of even being relevant. Have a good day dude
@@cbuub11 That's great not here to argue with you either. Just pointing out everything you complaining about avrl, spilo did the same thing so it comes off as there must be some other reason as to why you're mad at avrl but not spilo and my first assumption is the person must be a spilo simp upset that someone disagreed with him. If I'm wrong oh well it just comes off that way when spilo literally does the exact same stuff you are all complaining about but you don't have a problem when he does it. If I'm wrong oh well, not trying to argue, that's just my perception of this type of "feedback" and you dissing avrl as irrelevant for no reason is exactly why I feel that way. " I just found it disrespectful that half the time he was in a one on one conversation about something with someone, he’s on his second monitor typing or reading," I mean if this was a one on one conversation I guess I could see your point, but zero seconds of this are a one on one conversation. It's a podcast, a product they are making, to be monetized, there's four people here it was never a one on one discussion. The only reason you are under the impression that is was because spilo interrupted the flow of the conversation between four people and made it a one on one discussion for no reason I'm supposed to be mad at avrl for doing research, having points he wants to talk about, or whatever hes doing on the second screen, when his job was to come on here and do that? I don't see that as a bad thing but you are entitled to your opinion. I was much more annoyed by spilo's constant interruptions with irrelevant points when he literally agrees with what is being said and honestly would prefer if he was a little more prepared, came with well formulated positions and did some research on the side rather than expecting the other guests to lower themselves to his level. Have a good day
2:27:50 Spylo tries to say his point 3 times in a row, AVRL interrups him with stupid armor trivia, even tho it has nothing to do with Spylo's point. AVRL shut the hell up if you add nothing and interrupt others, trivia can wait
@@gatowololo5629Have you not been paying attention? 5v5 dumpstered the game and people have realized it’s not getting better nor a good use of your time. Just wait for 6v6 and hope they figure it out.
AVRL repeatedly fails to understand what conversation is about, people try to elaborate so he catches up, AVRL doesn't even try to listen, keeps interrupting and spitting out whatever random thought he had in his head. It's actually infuriating.
him sperging out that push sucks as if spilo wasnt saying the same thing he probably is the worst person on these podcasts, such great takes such as in the 6v6 debate him saying low elo players only play one character but also simultaneously low elo players always counterswap or whatever trite bad faith shit he said to hawk only bad faith people call themselves not bad faith its the same as ppl calling themselves "centrists"
most insufferable guest to listen to on any OW content. glad more people are speaking up about how often he interjects and how ridiculous his arguments can be. the only joy i got out of the whole push debate was seeing how amused Spilo was at AVRL being so riled up. i think i may skip any episode this guy is on in the future.
Avrl is frustrating but hes still better than Custa or Salt. I dont understand why he was so determined to not let Spilo agree with him right after saying hes not a bad faith actor. He needs to stop talking passed others and actually listen.
I disagree, I think spill is really good at fence sitting, disagreeing, saying a point and backing it up by saying “but I don’t have the evidence on that so I can’t be 100%” which is bad faith. I think spilo does this a lot where he won’t take a side or make an argument but he will disagree and say “well I just can’t say for certain” when this is in fact a podcast for opinions about the game, not data or statistics.
Weird, the only thing I didn't like was the speech about being good faith, obviously most people think they're being good faith. But the example you gave was one of substantive disagreement, related to a component of the dilemma that he stated he was being good faith about. I wonder what it is that avrl does that really pisses people off, because if it was *that* bad I'm sure it wouldnt go straight over my head
@@Waywurd08 Spilo spent half an hour trying to agree with Avrl, even if for differing reasons. That's not disagreeing or fence sitting. Additionally, when Spilo says "my anecdotal experience says (blank) but I'm going to ask the devs for stats before saying something as fact." -that's the opposite of bad faith. He's literally admitting that he might be biased, and is willing to be proven wrong. Avrl, meanwhile, was consistently interrupting Spilo to tell him he's wrong when that man was just saying "You're right"! Even if Spilo's reasoning is flawed in Avrl's opinion, that doesn't give him the right to hijack the entire podcast to go on a rant about basically nothing.
@@jacobbaartz7710 Even if Avrl disagrees on Spilo's reasoning on why push is bad, Avrl blows it way out of proportion. He was determined to tell Spilo that he's utterly *wrong* (despite not having any facts to back either of them up, which Spilo pointed out). But it's not just the push discussion that bothered me, it was the armor one as well. Avrl kept interrupting Spilo to repeat himself (or paraphrase Spilo's ideas) for zero reason, when Spilo was trying to move the conversation in a new direction. If he would've left it at "I think armor should be replaced with health." It would've been fine, but why does he feel the need to go on and on as if there aren't 3 other people waiting to speak?
1:47:45 this whole sequence sums up Avrl's whole behavior during debates. He doesn't listen to half the point people make and ends up contradicting them for something that actually BACKS UP the points he made himself. Dude desperately needs a reality check
This is called a "debate" in name only. All there guys come on to have a good chat about the game while sprinkling in some rage bait for engagement and having a good time. They aren't trying to "win" or force concessions. Hell, they have a content creator discord where they chat off stream about this kind of stuff. They are friends and sort of coworkers. If you perceive "behaviour during debates" then you are reading waaaaaay to far Into things.
@@thepoofster2251whether you wanna call it a debate, a discussion or a chat does not invalidate my point. Avrl still doesn't understand the point of having a discussion, he can't listen to Spilo explaining his points for more than 1 minute straight and that's a fact. Them being friends or not doesn't change that fact, and even as a listener that type of attitude is actually hindering.
@@魚-c3d like I said, you are reading waaaay too far into things. These are all content creators who are having a public chat. Sometimes they are dead serious, sometimes they troll, sometimes they might say shit cause they know it's good for content. Have some faith in SVB. If someone is truely not there to have a convo, he prob wouldn't invite them back. It's for entertainment, nothing more. Just chill and don't get too invested
The two of them are making two completely separate points and don't realize it. This is 50% on spilo because he also didn't realize that avrl was making a different argument to him. Avrl thinks push is bad because the game is just over when one team gets a big early lead. Spilo thinks push is bad because OT spawns allow for close games to be won by the worse team. These are not conflicting but also not corroborating each other. They were both confused as to what each other were saying. Not some horrible behavior by one guy not listening to the other.
Blizzard devs: "Why won't people ever think nicely of our balance changes and reworks??" Also Blizzard devs: "Nah we adhere to our DATA before considering any of your actual player suggestions 10 days of the week, 420 days of the year" We're 2 years into OW2 and they haven't managed to make it feel better than 3 year content and balance drought OW1 still, and somehow the craziest discussion we can have is wave respawns and cosmetics and bad DLC game modes? And Mystery Heroes changes?? What timeline is this even, where tf is the real Overwatch.
I thought win percentage was always a wild statistic to base changes off of. Like... Yeah, if you counter somebody else's hero pool, then you're more likely to win. What happens when you go against your counters? Win percentage doesn't at all matter in the long run. They admitted to as much when they said the community doesn't care if Rein has close to a 60% average win rate.
I’d MUCH rather have the game be balanced on facts rather than “community feedback”. Why would the devs trust the opinion of a bunch of gold players who can barely group up or streamers who go live 10 hours 7 days/week with doomer mentality because they experience the problems that happen at the extremes? Actual nonsense. Quality of life and general “feeling” is great to take from the community (i.e. s9), but balance?? No thank you.
@@nuttybars2168 There is no such thing as facts in this sense, because at the end it comes down to WHAT is being interpreted, and HOW it is being interpreted. The link between the data, and the actual gameplay result, is entirely missed if you don't understand how to connect the two -and that's where player feedback is important. Now, not all player feedback is equal, but you can quickly see a pretty consistent line of reasoning coming from players who could predict all our current predicaments years in advance, and form well thought out arguments and reasoning, while the devs had no clue or at the very least not enough confidence to assume anything strongly. There is a natural break point in any competitive game, where eventually player experience and understanding of intricate game mechanics will exceed the game dev's understanding of their own game. OW has far exceeded that point, heck, I'd argue we already passed that in early 2018. That was the point they should start dropping their ego and listen more to players, of course not just take everything at face value, but listen and consider, because at that point the more skilled / invested playerbase actually knew the game better than the devs, and knew what was healthy and what was moronic. Wonder why a hero like release Brig got introduced? Because low rank majority DATA requested a hero like her, similar with Moira, and why Brig never got tuned down because DATA ADHERENCE got in the way. It killed the game. Literally. To the point they had to break the game format sideways and later revive it with a sequel. Data and truth is not the same. Data is foundation, but how you use the data, and what data you decide to use, that is an artform that this dev team does not master. At the very least the avg gold player has 100x the time spent actually playing the game compared to the devs. Doesn't mean they know how to fix the game, but they can tell at the very least whenever "adhering to data" isn't working. But no, of course you shoulnd't listen to the avg gold or silver player. You're picking an opposite extreme as a bad strawman argument. Of course you should listen to players with more specific expertise and a solid track record, and have those people discuss back and forth to find our what is fluff and what is meaningful. Data adherence is how you kill the soul of a game 1000 tiny steps at a time.
Yeah it clearly states in the patchnotes that if no one dies after you within 6 seconds, your timer gets reduced by 2s. I think that’s how it’s worded. Kinda hard to misunderstand imo if you have decent comprehension above 4th grade.
1:15:55 Gavin misses the point. Wave respawns hold the hands of players who are stupid and who would usually solo feed the whole game because they are just not good. It's a bost to their mmr just being beside someone when they spanw in
I think an important point around this 'skill of things' is that skill only really matters in the realms that people are interested in expressing it. We could make overwatch headshot only and that would be extremely skill scaling, but people wouldn't enjoy it. On the other hand, staggers only exist as a consequence of the limitations of how you can actually deploy a respawn system. Death itself should be the punishment for dying.
@@SuperLifestreamwhich, as a gold who does understands regrouping, I appreciate that it slows down my fellow golds from the “spawn-sprint-die” cycle that they apparently love
an easy way to visualize spilo's point about push easily being reverse swept during OT is this. imagine every fightwin as a coin thats worth 20 meters. One team spends 5 coins getting to 100 meters, then OT kicks in. When OT kicks in, each coin will increase in value to 40 meters because each fightwin will yield more push distance. The attacking team now only has to spend 3 coins getting to that 100 meters on the other side. One team spent 5 coins while the other only spent 3. in this scenario, what is likely the worse team won the game.
@@AarPlays exactly. and not only does the team on the back foot have to win 3 back-to-back fights, but they must now do so on the bot's terms someone must be on the bot at all times, which is one of the worst positions you can play due to lack of cover and low ground. so either the rest of the team has to make that work somehow, or they can try taking a better forward position but as a 4v5 so if they can still push through that, I think they've earned it
@@UncleJemima Exactly. Are we *really* going to try to argue having to win 3+ fights in a row when the enemy can easily force out your ults and then stack theirs, all while you're having to babysit the bot, is somehow an advantage? Come on.
But if any of them die the respawns longer for them as well. Actually even longer because they would have to run further than the defenders most likely. That combined with having to have someone on the bot at all times kinda discounts this point
1:57:00 if the winning team gets team wiped in OT in push, they actually dont typically get forward spawn due to how long the respawn is and in Diamond and below you usually snag the first person who spawned who “I’m just peaking to poke a bit” causing the next fight, still in OT to be a 5v4 starting an endless trickle if they don’t catch themselves. Is the comeback still a tall task? Yes, but at the lower elo not resetting makes it vastly easier than what level y’all are playing at.
Its not about the color tho, texture/shader sucks big time Look at CoD BO 4 or R6Siege, both games had better version of stone/gem skins for guns, much better
While they were talking about comms, I'm surprised nobody brought up how just the modern console party chat system makes it extremely difficult to find anybody talking in game chat because console has no push to talk button.
question: the button "Share" cannot be remapped to do "push to speak"?? or any button be remapped to do another thing??, how the elite controller extra buttons can be useful if a mapping function does not exists
on push the team that is winning is usually fighting an uphill battle because the losing team will have defenders advantage with high grounds. It doesn't make sense for you to instantly start getting progress on the objective when you win a fight with an inherit advantage (which is the reason clash feels so awful)
He’s. It’s like Avrl wants no rewards for winning fights, unless you’ve lost multiple fights before. He essentially wants you to be able to lose 5 fights, even the game be even after you win 2
jade stones can look like the overwatch weapon skins, depending on the quality. it's just that this type of jade is very rare and it's more common to see the paler version of the stone. and it's actually a more apt description imo because emerald stones are less opaque than jade.
The OW skins version just looks like green metallic spraypaint on plastic weapons, thats the main issue. The green color and Jade itself is fine, could be awesome even, but man did they fumble the textures and tonality so hard.
I don't know anyone that plays anymore. The last 4 friends I had left playing all switched to Deadlock and already told me they aren't coming back. OW2 is cooked
After Marvel Rivals beta I completely stopped playing Ow, just waiting for it to release playing random games a bit: CoD, ForHonor, Herosles of the Storm, Apex
@@johnsonspark171 'ow is cooked' yeah and it was cooked when pve was cancelled, when ow2 launched, when the devs abandoned ow1 in the final years, when brig released broken yadda yadda yadda its never cooked, people just love doomposting
AVRL is clearly an intelligent guy, but it seems like if there is a disagreement he doesn't even try to understand the other person's points and just keeps repeating his own.
I agree with your points yall made about Comming. As a console player every game is either empty comms or people complain asking someone to swap (even if we’re winning) and its just not worth it anymore. Occasionally I listen in on comms and no one has given actual information on comms ever. Thats not an exaggeration either, it’s either empty comms or two people calling eachother names because of their KD or how one specific stat is bad so theyre bad.
Bro, it’s such a minor thing but the fact that they changed it from emerald to jade makes me so annoyed. Emerald, sure, looks close enough. But Jade? Jade looks very different from this, and it’s really annoying because we know they can do good jade textures. There are a few skins that have convincing jade elements, they are capable of doing it, so why is it not on the guns???? Very minor complaint all things considered, but it makes me so irrationally mad.
Well maybe if the Jade weapons skins actually looked good people would’ve complain that they don’t work on any character. It’s literally just bright green with no texture at all. That is not Jade. That is not good. It’s lazy to just turn the gold skin into green and give it a different name… just give us some actual effort and we won’t complain
Sucks to see AVRL here. But I know Flats said he's not gonna be on the podcast for a while, because he feels like he never has anything of substance to add to the debate
@26:32 we suffer the same thing in open queue , open queue was beautiful before 5v5 buffed the tanks now it’s ruined , justice for open queue. justice for arcade
I came here from Spotify to say that I think a good way to solve push is to just have a goal of meters traveled you need to win, and either the first to reach X amount of meters or pushes the bot all of the way to the end wins. So if enemy team has 100 meters and you win, the second they’re all off payload it starts tracking your progress as you push it.
For the gold weapon skins, I want it to be either the primary or secondary collor, not the whole weapon. Illari, for example, her weapon has a cool pattern on the thoth skin, and I would love if it stayed and wasn't covered up.
As someone who mainly plays mystery heroes as my main mode I find the new mystery heroes role lock semi interesting but me personally I like the ability to be able to pop off at any of the roles at any point in the match and this new version limits it and I find it more boring. I get trying to balance mystery heroes but at the same time the chaos is what makes mystery heroes great and I find it boring to just get a random hero in only one role. Especially because if I play in damage only then my chances of getting widow who I suck at greatly increase and that is just boring. I feel this is more of a change for someone who wasn't too big of a fan of mystery heroes rather than a change for the mystery heroes fanbase, just my take though.
Wow. Avrl is a man after my own heart. I literally paused the video in the first few sentences of him talking about Clash early in the video and started breaking down the things I think are major with Clash and Push. Then I hit play and watched him say the exact same things I was thinking. Like almost exact. Even using the comparison of KOTH vs Push with one team capturing the objective on KOTH and it subtracts the enemies percentage of what they have already gained first. Same thing with Clash having major issues where the game just gives the losing team a huge break and advantage for losing and "rewards" the winning team with a huge disadvantage.
I’ve made this comment a few months ago, and I find Avrl being totally against it without real concrete reasons other than he feels like it shouldn’t. We SHOULD balance the game based on skill levels, in all 3 American professional sports (football, baseball and basketball) the rules progress and make it harder than an elementary/high school/ university level. Why not make it more satisfying for a beginner to have a wider hit box, shrinking to a higher level. This makes it more impressive and makes things like a headshot more impactful and awe inspiring to watch in pro levels. All levels enjoy a quality of life game, and strive for reaching a higher level of play, while respecting with greater appreciation the ones who can climb to the top.
hog is actually very good he just doesn't reward clueless players now. i'm a hog player and i'm having a good time. watch cyx, he destroys with hog. hog doesn't need high winrate. ball, doom, dva also needs to be like this. if you are good at the hero, you make it work anyways. i'm honestly surprised how good hog is right now and how poor his winrate is. the most healthy state for him.
Irrelevant, just because cyx shows what he does doesn’t mean he shows when he gets demolished. Hog is not good, hog has really never been that good. Nothing in his kit has anything to do with tanking or peeling. He’s just a fat dps with no armor, he’s really bad. I can tell you’re just gold/plat peak lol
@@lesstalk2239 im t500 with hog lol. you just dont know how to play the game. he is one of the most played tank in t500. more than ram, sig, orisa, mauga combined. he is very good. he just doesnt reward idiots right now.
Not sure what the other guy is on about. I've seen plenty of Hog players on TikTok that absolutely demolish the enemy team. Hook-oneshotting a squishy will always be broken, and now that players are starting to use his rotating corner hook tech he's able to absolutely massacre the enemy Tank by misplacing them and body blocking them for him and his entire team to shoot them while they're out of their Supports LoS. Just because other Tanks appear to be a more rampant issue doesn't mean he isn't strong, it's just that now all Tanks are busted because they have to be in 5v5...
well cyx also swaps a lot when necessary. hog is definitely in a bad place right now with armor being as strong as it is. as much as id love for hog to be good right now he just obviously isn't. performing well on hog is more of a kudos to your own abilities, not to the strength of the hero.
HEY SVB I love your podcasts. Would love it if you could do a quick review of a DOTA 2 patch with Spilo and Sam just to show them what a real patch looks like. They haven't seen one ever playing overwatch.
The big problem for me with the Jade weapons is they’re… not jade. They’re metallic green, and it sparkles. Jade isn’t really all that shiny or sparkly, the whole appeal of jade is the deep smooth color . I really don’t know what compelled them to pick jade weapons and then make metallic green when they could have just gone to diamond weapons or even just used an actual jade. I think there’s actual jade on some of the skins even! just use that!
@@thepoofster2251 Because as a mystery heros player. None of you qp casuals know how to play the game mode. If the enemy team has a widow who cant get a kill, dont kill them.
@@ebros2898 yeah the role lock MH is cringe because most of us like flexing and/or getting wacky comps and playing against wacky comps (also tanks are nerfed so you can KILL THEM). GOATs can be obnoxious but it's not invincible (also people don't play like pros so more often than not, a support/ tank gets bored and overextends). The only merit I see to role lock is keeping at least 1 of each (so you don't get 4 snipers vs 3 dive tanks or 4 dps vs goats), but even then the tradeoff isn't worth it.
Id be interested to see the numbers of dps players have just left the game because of the mishandling of balance, whoch makes it look better overall for queue times, or have so many people left that the queue tomes have gotten so bad because of that.
im consistently getting >1m dps queues and >7m support queues, not any better than before just swapped roles, right after everyone confirmed multiple times that dps will always have the longes queues lmao
Watching avrl complain about push and clash just to sit there and tell spylo he’s being ridiculous when talking about push might be one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard
Thank god SVB said it with his mini rant about why do we have they keeping making these shit game modes with Push and Clash and Flash when most players love Payload/Hybrid and KOTH.
Hopefully someone can comment on this --> Why can venture content point while underground where venture is uncontestable? It's incredibly BS to stall for free with zero risk since you can also jettison yourself at mach speeds out of the ground vs. reaper wraith doesnt and easily punished when he reappears?
He basically takes breaks. Recently he took a break to work on mineplex which is something he is also doing but he's got free time on his hands so he's working on OW as well.
The issue of clash specifically rewarding the losers too much (ie. losers easily capping the final point) can be rectified by changing the point system values. Instead of 1point per cap in enemy territory, you gain 2, the total points required to win becomes 7 or higher, then you keep it at 1 point for recapturing a point on your side of the map since the gamemode makes it more difficult for the opposing team
@19:25 I believe he's referring to Dragon age Inquisition. The difference between on foot speed vs on horse was borderline non-existent. Adding speed lines and zooming out the camera made it feel faster than it actually moved 😂
On the mystery heroes role Q, i think it's a step for arcade player to get into the grove of normal games, first introducing the format of role lock. Plus it is a way for arcade warrior to complete dailies/ weeklies quests that require "quickplays" cuz it's not labeled as arcade so why not. I sincerely believe it's just a lil step to try to merge some arcade gamer into QP, slowly getting them to ranked with comp overdrive being the carrot at the end
I know I am late, but the main issue with removing the headshot damage reduction will be hitscan everywhere again and poke will be meta again. Especially since they STILL havent nerfed Illari and Baptiste's damage output. And they made it easier for Kiri to do more damage while increasing the maximum amount of damage Kiri can do. And they buffed Mercy's damage boost. They main issue we have atm is they are trying to avoid nerfing dps supports by adding passives. If Illari/Bap/Kiri didn't contribute dps levels of damage while having way more sustain, DPS could actually contribute to the team in the way they should.
There's a very easy design decision to fix every problem with push. Make the total distance pushed a point system. You can win by pushing all the way to the end or by pushing the bot a total distance of 100-150 meters. This incentivises you to fight on the bot because you get total distance, and if you leave the bot in your territory it's easier for the enemy to push to the end using checkpoints.
Juno genuinely killed Mercy. Like her orbital strike ulti is just better *Valkyrie. And the HP nerf and not unique regeneration passive. Edit: You guys are right so let me rephrase my comment: Juno solidifies Mercy's death even further.
Wut, Mercy has been dead since season 9. You could say the ult is a better nano, tranc, window, kitsune (debatable on that one). And the support passive has existed for almost 2 years now. Juno is not to blame for any of this lmao
5v5 killed mercy, she was way easier to balance in 6v6 when sustain was actually a playstyle and not a cringe side effect of supports being too strong (besides brig and bap, they still need to get sent to the farm)
@@YazzPott even in ow2 mercy gameplay revolved around pocketing somebody capable of essentially solo carrying with a dmg boost, which essentially means having to play the neutral against a souped up pharah/ashe/soldier/widow thats capable of solo carrying without a mercy pocket anyways. In 6v6 she just had way more nuance after moth meta was nerfed and rezzes didn’t fundamentally break how team fights are supposed to work w mass rezzes
Mercy has a passive playstyle. Passive playstyle don't play well in 5v5 which is the nature of the format. It's why Mercy and Lifeweaver are both struggling because their offensive prowess is almost non-existent. Juno plays like a mobile version of Ana and Bap so she translate well into 5v5.
I think that I'm likely the target audience for getting to play comp again. I played it in OW1 but stopped at OW2. The problem with putting cosmetics behind playing ranked games is... they've done that plenty already, and people like myself who don't value cosmetics (to show off rank, etc) won't try playing a game mode that is much less fun due to it being 2x as long as QP and much more salty and sweaty. I've got golden guns, what else is better then that? Unless they come out with a 'rainbow' one where you can choose near any color to match skins, it's no real use. A proper solution to get me back into ranked is to...fix ranked. Blizz needs to add the basic details that MOBAs have. I'm talking F2 shows actual numbers and stats, not just "heals allies." DVA matrix says it negates projectiles, but doesn't mention the duration, exceptions (sig rock), or that it slowly recharges even. Other games that are competitive have these details. Why do I have to read a wiki to learn actual numbers for everything? Either balance the game around casual players to play ranked, or add the actual content which comp games have and balance for the higher ranks.
The inherent problem with this game competitively, is ranked is literally the exact same as QP but with extra rounds in the gamemodes that call for it. And I just dont think that makes for good competitive integrity. We can laugh & joke about COD all day but playing that game at a high level they cater competitive to what has the most competitive integrity and adjust the gamemodes and hoe the game is played accordingly. Theres only 3 set gamemodes, theres only a certain mapset, certain weapons and perks/attachments are allowed, and its meant to keep the game as fair and competitive as possible and getting rid of all the cheesy/OP stuff. Now I dont think OW should completely follow that line of thinking but the fact a brand new gamemode like clash immediately gets added into comp without comp being considered at all at a core design level is mind boggling to me. The fact heroes like Sombra who arent strong but just inherently not competitive heroes because of perma invisibility and hacking players abilities, are able to be played in a competitive setting is strange. OW should really consider tweaking the game a bit when it comes to comp to make it more fundamentally competitive. Because especially with SBMM in QP, QP is literally competitive without the extra offense/defense or the ELO to show for wins/losses.
I think an important point around this 'skill of things' is that skill only really matters in the realms that people are interested in expressing it. We could make overwatch headshot only and that would be extremely skill scaling, but people wouldn't enjoy it. On the other hand, staggers only exist as a consequence of the limitations of how you can actually deploy a respawn system. Death itself should be the punishment for dying.
Why did this audience degenerade to a "I think this guest is washed" --> "No, I think this guest is the best" kind of thing. You all literally are clapping if theres someone who you agree with and booing if there is someone you disagree with.
No, some people have genuinely bad takes. Spill is almost universally loved and it's not because he somehow agreed with everyone's takes. It's because he's knowledgeable about the game and he's able to get his point across in a way that makes sense and not sound like an asshole. People dislike sam because he's aggressive and can sound like a dick when he says things, although sam is also very knowledgeable about the game as well. People hate freedo because his takes are tone deaf and he doesn't seem to know as much about the game as he thinks he does and he comes across as arrogant. It's not about agreeing and disagreeing with takes, it's how the people come across in general
@@AngrySecs This is not universally true, Freedo has literally came on here and has had points that weren’t even that crazy and people still are sick of him. It doesn’t really matter what he says at this point the audience just dislikes him and feels the need to even justify it lol. If you don’t like seeing someone who you disagree with maybe really try seeing their perspective. I for one don’t agree with Sam on many things but when he actually elaborates I can see his side at least. Let the discussion be had.
@@Bossking1you didn’t understand the persons comment. Sam and freedo come off as arrogant. Moreso Sam more than freedo but Sam is just an angry person and is a “am I wrong” type of person. And no one likes a “am I wrong” type of person. As the commenter said, it’s about how it comes across. You can agree with someone even if they communicate in a way you dislike and vice versa. I love spilo as he’s level headed and communicates well above the rest. Also if you continually shit on a game saying you quit or whatever and then keep coming back it’s really counterintuitive to keep having these discussions. Like if you say you’re gonna leave leave no need to announce it 😊
@@Daveyjonesvi that is such a flawed black and white way of thinking. Logic >>>>>> feelings. And Sam is more knowledgeable about the game then spilo and freedo. Just because you’re level headed doesn’t mean you have good takes. Although spilo doesn’t have glaring bad takes often he’s still less knowledgeable about the game and choosing to listen to a less knowledgeable person because you don’t like how the more knowledgeable person puts things makes you apart of the problem. Freelo gets hate because he ISNT knowledgeable and comes off as arrogant and is insanely hypocritical or just down right misrepresentative. Also Sam has never announced to leave overwatch until marvel rivals became a thing. Yall literally lie out your mouth to paint people in a certain light just cuz they don’t like what you like and it’s disgusting.
is that what this sounds like? "@philistine3260 AVRL repeatedly fails to understand what conversation is about, people try to elaborate so he catches up, AVRL doesn't even try to listen, keeps interrupting and spitting out whatever random thought he had in his head. It's actually infuriating. @biemsu7426 13 hours ago him sperging out that push sucks as if spilo wasnt saying the same thing he probably is the worst person on these podcasts, such great takes such as in the 6v6 debate him saying low elo players only play one character but also simultaneously low elo players always counterswap or whatever trite bad faith shit he said to hawk"
I do like the wave respawns. I'm a Gold, sometimes plat, player. And it's so frustrating just watching people spawn, run straight to point and die. At least now they might have a couple people with them and it forces them to group up a little. Now if I could just get my team to learn there is another option between win every fight or die every fight. If our support gets picked the second the fight starts... it is possible to just fall back to cover and wait 5 seconds... instead of diving in, using every cooldown to live for 5 seconds... then die. Just in time for the first support to get back and do the same lol
To fix the bot or payload problem they can just do it like Marvel Rivals so you don’t need to have a dedicated payload pusher the whole time. Nobody likes being the payload guy, nobody wants to be the payload guy. If the push bot jitters when it’s faster than the player, the easiest and simplest possible solution is to unlink those two. The bot doesn’t need to be pushed by the player. Just make it so it changes directions and walks by itself every time a different team touches it once, and stops when they contest it at the same time.
Sombra mains would love this. Touch the bot once during the fight while the other team isn’t on it, off it goes lol. Half way thru the fight on the enemy teams bridge, they realize the bot is pushing the load under their bridge. Sounds great haha
I had an idea when they were asking for potential solutions to the push problem. Maybe when the bot can create some sort of symetra style telporter for 30 seconds to go back to the middle point after its been running for like 10-20 meters or maybe even a one way teleporter is created on the checkpoint so you only have to push it back one checkpoint length to get it back to the middle. I dont have a strong stance on push, but i think this is a possible solution if blizzard thinks its an issue.
imo, the worst thing about flash is the map designs. the maps should've been designed where there are spawn-rooms on each corner and the point are in the middle on equal distance from both spawn-room.
In the 13 seasons of OW2 the only thing holding this game together is the art direction, Juno design is so well done, she reminds me of a cute-sexy jetsons/ flash gordon comicbook space girl and blends so well in a world with talking gorillas
What if we removed or reduced defenders advantage in the last point and made clash round based like control? Once you get 5 points, you get 1 point for the round. You have to get another 5 points to get the second point and win. Increase cap rate significantly too. Making it round based resets snowball potential with each new round and allows the map to be less defender biased since losing the last point just once doesn’t lose you the entire map.
Jade is just awful. I use it on Junkrat sometimes because it fits his chaotic vibe and matches some skins nicely, while also clashing with others in ways that I like BUT it doesn't look like JADE. It's just the Gold texture with the hue scale changed. It's embarrassing that they thought it was okay to release this as a Competitive reward! Not that they care though.
I thought Avrls takes were hot months ago but I now see he is a genius yelling in the town square and we ignored him! He was right that season 9 changes needed to sit longer if it did, we wouldn't have super tanks. Before that even happened he said that he was saying that we needed tiny tanks with less specialization in this format and he just perfectly summed up my feelings on Push. The first time I played it I thought there was no way they play tested this and thought doing something for ZERO reward is a fun game mechanic. I've become and AVRL believer. Give him a community balance patch and let him cook 👨🏻🍳👨🏻🍳👨🏻🍳
Solution to the bot reset problem: Add a long capture bar like a control point to the bot rather than just getting it by being on it. Then make it so the bot automatically goes back to the middle point quickly unless an enemy contests it. That way you don’t have to worry about the bot moving faster than players and allows players to use their movement to get back to the middle without having to worry about moving the bot
On the Hanzo changes… answer this. Why does Widow get 300 damage headshots (better than hanzo), hitscan (better than hanzo) a consistent short range gun not on cooldown (better than hanzo), long range mobility cooldown (better than hanzo), smaller hitbox (better than hanzo). Widow needs to be reworked. She needs a dedicated bolt action sniper, slow ads speed, slow rechamber speed, max damage of 250, a dedicated close range weapon on cooldown, and larger hitbox. Hanzo needs what spilo said. 300 damage headshots with falloff, faster arrow knock speed, and a buff to dragon.
Imo the easiest fix to push is making the score based off of how far the bot has travelled and not how far it went. Pushing the actual barricade should be worth 2-3 points per meter and when the bot is traveling without it it’s 1 point per meter. This allows the defending team to start making progress without actually pushing the barricade.
Role queue MH is a terrible change, completely ruins the point of the game mode for me. RQ MH forces me to play support and support only, my tank queue is 20 minutes and DPS is 10. At least open queue MH is still in the arcade but now the queue times are split between these two modes, instead of just having the one queue.
1:43:13 This isn’t just in overwatch but it’s apparent in OW2. Games aren’t made for fun anymore. They are made to please shareholders. This is pretty much the enshitification of everything these days. Everything is made to generate profit so the point of the game isn’t to see “who is the best at Overwatch”. The point is to hold players in an addictive game loop and slightly change numbers so they buy skins and get just enough dopamine to keep coming back. They don’t actually know what good game design is. I think samito said this in another video but they hired a mobile game dev. To make a mobile game apparently
Talking Point: Competitive Point Shop alternatives My biggest critique of current OW2 is that past event/pass offerings are left to the aether with no relaunch in sight despite dome like Pass items beibg default visible in the gallery. They showed recently with Gamepass that you can code a purchase for some of these FOMO items too, so why not like comp points be used for past BP items at the least, if not most cosmetics that are locked behind some arbitrary thing (for example, Playstation Lifeguard Pharah, eventually the OWL skins, or Doctor Ziegler Mercy) not saying bringing back the hyper rare skins ie Blizzcon/Terran Rein etc. (although not opposed to very high comp costs), but there's a ton of incentive even for grinders within that vault.
The Push respawn and comeback convo just had me laughing. The mode is dogshit. It's a bad idea and tweaking numbers ain't gonna fix that. Too bad they took so much of their dev time making 4 maps of this nonsense.
Wave respawns should be for the metal ranks, once you hit diamond 5 there should be no wave respawns. Staggering is just a part of skill expression and shouldnt be taken away, but i can see how it would improve lower ranked games so there is my solution.
They should intentionally stagger the respawns at diamond and at top 500: no more respawning. You die, you lose. Just don't die 4head. I thought you were good at the game? Why you dying?
I have four global animated sprays for buying a he gold edition of Warcraft 3 and I’m the only one I’ve seen with these they have had sprays like this in the game for a while so idk why sprays in general aren’t just animated
Because they are exclusive. There is a reason you got them by buying something aint cheap. Why we cant equip any weapon on any skin? Because otherwise no one would buy weapon skins.
![The Great DPS Debate [2024] feat. Jay3, Samito, Spilo & Deku](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t0Z5uYpNB80/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Great DPS Debate [2024] feat. Jay3, Samito, Spilo & Deku](/img/tr.png)
This episode was recorded on 21st September 2024. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not let SVB know on his stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ )
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>21nd
21st* SVB :)
On the jade weapons point. Green is my favorite color. The jade weapons are U G L Y and LOOK NOTHING LIKE JADE.
I think the main problem is they just kind of took gold and painted it green…lol like might as well call it metallic green or something. Looks nothing like Jade and it just has a different shimmering effect than the Gold.
Yea it has nothing to do with the color, it has everything to do with the texture, tonality, and presentation of it. Actual Jade looks awesome and it could too in this game, but somehow they fumbled so hard and made it looked like metallic spraypainted plastic rather than an actual type of gemstone
They're good for Lucio and that's literally it. He's the only character who pulls it off, because his whole design is "green fast frog man"
I like them...
They go well with the pink/purple skins I have on every character.
The problem is like you said
It's not jade it's just gold with a green shade
They didn't actually put work in to make this skin look how it's supposed to so it just looks terrible
Not all of the streamers agreed with all my opinions 😡 unsubscribed.
All agreed with mine so an even faster unsub🤯
L take😂
@@petrparkr8011 joke
@@bambampewpew32 my bad
Lol
i can't believe bro doesn't play OW and still hosts this.SVB is a legend of the game.
Make OW great again, so people like HIM want to play it!
MOWGA
IT'S NEVER BORING AROUND ME
@@Sensei_gojo Oh man we gotta make hats for that
3 most productive guests. Varied takes
Avrl is a fool
Avrl and productive?💀💀
This show is always better with opinionated guests. Great group.
@@SteveFardhonestly he made some great points about clash, push and escort. The problem is how he answers by interrupting and how he phrases those answers
@@SteveFard Yeah he move a lot of conversations forward even though he gets a bit crazy
Amazing line up, gonna be fun to listen to this one. As always thank you for this great podcast SVB! ♡
Edit: To add on, Pharah did get a 'egyptian' themed skin, it was showcased in the trailer, Neffarti, they just haven't released it yet.
Hi Abby, would be crazy to see you on one of these.
@@Flash2icey2676 Hopefully one day
Avrl forgets that after you push the bot to middle after the enemy has a big advantage, it denies THEM push meters after THEY win the next fight, since they’ll have to push all the way back too. You still get value from winning fights in the form of denying your enemy meters. In addition, since your spawn is closer, you’ll be able to re-contest quicker and get early picks on your team back to the fight quicker if it lasts long enough. So, like spilo says, it is balanced. The value just isn’t intuitive since you deny the opponent points instead of instantly starting to gain some yourself. To get the lead back the team should have to win MORE fights than the opponent, not equal. Having to push the bot back ensures that (unless the opponent has more mobility and can come back quicker)
Can AVRL stop interrupting people? It’s really annoying.
Watching avrl spew takes and then not even pay attention to the takes someone else has just to come back to paying attention and cutting them off is infuriating. Man literally is reading and typing on his second monitor half the time spilo is even talking to him
Avrl carried this pod hard I don't know what you all are talking about. Don't agree with him on everything but he atleast articulates himself well and brings interesting topics to the discussion. Let's be honest you're just mad spilo got cooked.
@@ironman1458 “got cooked?” Brother they aren’t fighting 💀 this isn’t som presidential debate. The guy can barely let someone talk before he interrupts with something that isn’t even relevant half of the time
@@cbuub11 Well judging by the fact you ignored everything I said and hyper fixated on the part I claimed you are mad about I'm gonna carry on thinking thats what youre mad about. Especially cause spilo does the exact same thing cutting people off for no reason when he literally agrees with what is being said
@@ironman1458 listen man, I don’t care intensely enough to argue with some random dude named ironman in a comments section. Claim what you want, I’m not here preaching to never have avrl back on or something, I don’t hate the guy, I just found it disrespectful that half the time he was in a one on one conversation about something with someone, he’s on his second monitor typing or reading, until he has another interruption to make that has half a chance of even being relevant.
Have a good day dude
@@cbuub11 That's great not here to argue with you either. Just pointing out everything you complaining about avrl, spilo did the same thing so it comes off as there must be some other reason as to why you're mad at avrl but not spilo and my first assumption is the person must be a spilo simp upset that someone disagreed with him.
If I'm wrong oh well it just comes off that way when spilo literally does the exact same stuff you are all complaining about but you don't have a problem when he does it. If I'm wrong oh well, not trying to argue, that's just my perception of this type of "feedback" and you dissing avrl as irrelevant for no reason is exactly why I feel that way.
" I just found it disrespectful that half the time he was in a one on one conversation about something with someone, he’s on his second monitor typing or reading," I mean if this was a one on one conversation I guess I could see your point, but zero seconds of this are a one on one conversation. It's a podcast, a product they are making, to be monetized, there's four people here it was never a one on one discussion. The only reason you are under the impression that is was because spilo interrupted the flow of the conversation between four people and made it a one on one discussion for no reason
I'm supposed to be mad at avrl for doing research, having points he wants to talk about, or whatever hes doing on the second screen, when his job was to come on here and do that? I don't see that as a bad thing but you are entitled to your opinion. I was much more annoyed by spilo's constant interruptions with irrelevant points when he literally agrees with what is being said and honestly would prefer if he was a little more prepared, came with well formulated positions and did some research on the side rather than expecting the other guests to lower themselves to his level. Have a good day
2:27:50 Spylo tries to say his point 3 times in a row, AVRL interrups him with stupid armor trivia, even tho it has nothing to do with Spylo's point.
AVRL shut the hell up if you add nothing and interrupt others, trivia can wait
yeah but spilio is an obnoxious idiot who's getting $$$ from blizz. Soooooooo....
It's wild to host a podcast on a game you haven't played in two months lol
that’s how bad ow2 is rn but how much people still care about the ow IP
@@dat8bitboi199 Been playing deadlock for a month in the 6v6 waiting room
@@dat8bitboi199fr I’m basically an Overwatch addict
I mean, what has changed in the last two months?
Balance tweaks? Juno? These are minor additions for a 8 year old game.
@@gatowololo5629Have you not been paying attention? 5v5 dumpstered the game and people have realized it’s not getting better nor a good use of your time. Just wait for 6v6 and hope they figure it out.
AVRL repeatedly fails to understand what conversation is about, people try to elaborate so he catches up, AVRL doesn't even try to listen, keeps interrupting and spitting out whatever random thought he had in his head.
It's actually infuriating.
him sperging out that push sucks as if spilo wasnt saying the same thing
he probably is the worst person on these podcasts, such great takes such as in the 6v6 debate him saying low elo players only play one character but also simultaneously low elo players always counterswap or whatever trite bad faith shit he said to hawk
only bad faith people call themselves not bad faith its the same as ppl calling themselves "centrists"
Can’t stand him
Can't sand the mfer
most insufferable guest to listen to on any OW content. glad more people are speaking up about how often he interjects and how ridiculous his arguments can be. the only joy i got out of the whole push debate was seeing how amused Spilo was at AVRL being so riled up. i think i may skip any episode this guy is on in the future.
Still way better than Freedo, though. At least Avrl is authentic.@@mamoskates8473
Avrl is frustrating but hes still better than Custa or Salt. I dont understand why he was so determined to not let Spilo agree with him right after saying hes not a bad faith actor. He needs to stop talking passed others and actually listen.
I disagree, I think spill is really good at fence sitting, disagreeing, saying a point and backing it up by saying “but I don’t have the evidence on that so I can’t be 100%” which is bad faith.
I think spilo does this a lot where he won’t take a side or make an argument but he will disagree and say “well I just can’t say for certain” when this is in fact a podcast for opinions about the game, not data or statistics.
Weird, the only thing I didn't like was the speech about being good faith, obviously most people think they're being good faith.
But the example you gave was one of substantive disagreement, related to a component of the dilemma that he stated he was being good faith about.
I wonder what it is that avrl does that really pisses people off, because if it was *that* bad I'm sure it wouldnt go straight over my head
@@Waywurd08that's not bad faith lmao that's just being honest
@@Waywurd08 Spilo spent half an hour trying to agree with Avrl, even if for differing reasons. That's not disagreeing or fence sitting.
Additionally, when Spilo says "my anecdotal experience says (blank) but I'm going to ask the devs for stats before saying something as fact." -that's the opposite of bad faith. He's literally admitting that he might be biased, and is willing to be proven wrong.
Avrl, meanwhile, was consistently interrupting Spilo to tell him he's wrong when that man was just saying "You're right"! Even if Spilo's reasoning is flawed in Avrl's opinion, that doesn't give him the right to hijack the entire podcast to go on a rant about basically nothing.
@@jacobbaartz7710 Even if Avrl disagrees on Spilo's reasoning on why push is bad, Avrl blows it way out of proportion. He was determined to tell Spilo that he's utterly *wrong* (despite not having any facts to back either of them up, which Spilo pointed out).
But it's not just the push discussion that bothered me, it was the armor one as well. Avrl kept interrupting Spilo to repeat himself (or paraphrase Spilo's ideas) for zero reason, when Spilo was trying to move the conversation in a new direction. If he would've left it at "I think armor should be replaced with health." It would've been fine, but why does he feel the need to go on and on as if there aren't 3 other people waiting to speak?
1:47:45 this whole sequence sums up Avrl's whole behavior during debates. He doesn't listen to half the point people make and ends up contradicting them for something that actually BACKS UP the points he made himself. Dude desperately needs a reality check
This is called a "debate" in name only. All there guys come on to have a good chat about the game while sprinkling in some rage bait for engagement and having a good time. They aren't trying to "win" or force concessions.
Hell, they have a content creator discord where they chat off stream about this kind of stuff. They are friends and sort of coworkers. If you perceive "behaviour during debates" then you are reading waaaaaay to far Into things.
@@thepoofster2251whether you wanna call it a debate, a discussion or a chat does not invalidate my point. Avrl still doesn't understand the point of having a discussion, he can't listen to Spilo explaining his points for more than 1 minute straight and that's a fact. Them being friends or not doesn't change that fact, and even as a listener that type of attitude is actually hindering.
@@魚-c3d go watch an actual debate. Try out Pangburn. Also, take video games less serious
@@魚-c3d like I said, you are reading waaaay too far into things. These are all content creators who are having a public chat. Sometimes they are dead serious, sometimes they troll, sometimes they might say shit cause they know it's good for content.
Have some faith in SVB. If someone is truely not there to have a convo, he prob wouldn't invite them back. It's for entertainment, nothing more. Just chill and don't get too invested
The two of them are making two completely separate points and don't realize it. This is 50% on spilo because he also didn't realize that avrl was making a different argument to him. Avrl thinks push is bad because the game is just over when one team gets a big early lead. Spilo thinks push is bad because OT spawns allow for close games to be won by the worse team. These are not conflicting but also not corroborating each other. They were both confused as to what each other were saying. Not some horrible behavior by one guy not listening to the other.
Blizzard devs: "Why won't people ever think nicely of our balance changes and reworks??"
Also Blizzard devs: "Nah we adhere to our DATA before considering any of your actual player suggestions 10 days of the week, 420 days of the year"
We're 2 years into OW2 and they haven't managed to make it feel better than 3 year content and balance drought OW1 still, and somehow the craziest discussion we can have is wave respawns and cosmetics and bad DLC game modes? And Mystery Heroes changes?? What timeline is this even, where tf is the real Overwatch.
I thought win percentage was always a wild statistic to base changes off of.
Like... Yeah, if you counter somebody else's hero pool, then you're more likely to win. What happens when you go against your counters? Win percentage doesn't at all matter in the long run. They admitted to as much when they said the community doesn't care if Rein has close to a 60% average win rate.
I’d MUCH rather have the game be balanced on facts rather than “community feedback”. Why would the devs trust the opinion of a bunch of gold players who can barely group up or streamers who go live 10 hours 7 days/week with doomer mentality because they experience the problems that happen at the extremes? Actual nonsense.
Quality of life and general “feeling” is great to take from the community (i.e. s9), but balance?? No thank you.
@@nuttybars2168 There is no such thing as facts in this sense, because at the end it comes down to WHAT is being interpreted, and HOW it is being interpreted. The link between the data, and the actual gameplay result, is entirely missed if you don't understand how to connect the two -and that's where player feedback is important. Now, not all player feedback is equal, but you can quickly see a pretty consistent line of reasoning coming from players who could predict all our current predicaments years in advance, and form well thought out arguments and reasoning, while the devs had no clue or at the very least not enough confidence to assume anything strongly.
There is a natural break point in any competitive game, where eventually player experience and understanding of intricate game mechanics will exceed the game dev's understanding of their own game. OW has far exceeded that point, heck, I'd argue we already passed that in early 2018. That was the point they should start dropping their ego and listen more to players, of course not just take everything at face value, but listen and consider, because at that point the more skilled / invested playerbase actually knew the game better than the devs, and knew what was healthy and what was moronic. Wonder why a hero like release Brig got introduced? Because low rank majority DATA requested a hero like her, similar with Moira, and why Brig never got tuned down because DATA ADHERENCE got in the way. It killed the game. Literally. To the point they had to break the game format sideways and later revive it with a sequel.
Data and truth is not the same. Data is foundation, but how you use the data, and what data you decide to use, that is an artform that this dev team does not master.
At the very least the avg gold player has 100x the time spent actually playing the game compared to the devs. Doesn't mean they know how to fix the game, but they can tell at the very least whenever "adhering to data" isn't working. But no, of course you shoulnd't listen to the avg gold or silver player. You're picking an opposite extreme as a bad strawman argument. Of course you should listen to players with more specific expertise and a solid track record, and have those people discuss back and forth to find our what is fluff and what is meaningful.
Data adherence is how you kill the soul of a game 1000 tiny steps at a time.
just want to point out that if only one person dies, their respawn is ten seconds not twelve. Its only twelve when someone dies after you.
Yeah it clearly states in the patchnotes that if no one dies after you within 6 seconds, your timer gets reduced by 2s. I think that’s how it’s worded. Kinda hard to misunderstand imo if you have decent comprehension above 4th grade.
1:15:55 Gavin misses the point. Wave respawns hold the hands of players who are stupid and who would usually solo feed the whole game because they are just not good. It's a bost to their mmr just being beside someone when they spanw in
I think an important point around this 'skill of things' is that skill only really matters in the realms that people are interested in expressing it.
We could make overwatch headshot only and that would be extremely skill scaling, but people wouldn't enjoy it.
On the other hand, staggers only exist as a consequence of the limitations of how you can actually deploy a respawn system.
Death itself should be the punishment for dying.
The point of it removing skill ceilings because it removes spawn camping is insane to me
@@SuperLifestreamwhich, as a gold who does understands regrouping, I appreciate that it slows down my fellow golds from the “spawn-sprint-die” cycle that they apparently love
an easy way to visualize spilo's point about push easily being reverse swept during OT is this. imagine every fightwin as a coin thats worth 20 meters. One team spends 5 coins getting to 100 meters, then OT kicks in. When OT kicks in, each coin will increase in value to 40 meters because each fightwin will yield more push distance. The attacking team now only has to spend 3 coins getting to that 100 meters on the other side. One team spent 5 coins while the other only spent 3. in this scenario, what is likely the worse team won the game.
I love that about push.
The thing is that the worse team is more likely to lose those flips.
They have to win three in a row against a team that is more skilled.
@@AarPlays exactly. and not only does the team on the back foot have to win 3 back-to-back fights, but they must now do so on the bot's terms
someone must be on the bot at all times, which is one of the worst positions you can play due to lack of cover and low ground. so either the rest of the team has to make that work somehow, or they can try taking a better forward position but as a 4v5
so if they can still push through that, I think they've earned it
@@UncleJemima Exactly. Are we *really* going to try to argue having to win 3+ fights in a row when the enemy can easily force out your ults and then stack theirs, all while you're having to babysit the bot, is somehow an advantage? Come on.
But if any of them die the respawns longer for them as well. Actually even longer because they would have to run further than the defenders most likely. That combined with having to have someone on the bot at all times kinda discounts this point
1:57:00 if the winning team gets team wiped in OT in push, they actually dont typically get forward spawn due to how long the respawn is and in Diamond and below you usually snag the first person who spawned who “I’m just peaking to poke a bit” causing the next fight, still in OT to be a 5v4 starting an endless trickle if they don’t catch themselves. Is the comeback still a tall task? Yes, but at the lower elo not resetting makes it vastly easier than what level y’all are playing at.
every color is better than jade. they couldnt went ruby, amethyst, sapphire all better colors
Its not about the color tho, texture/shader sucks big time
Look at CoD BO 4 or R6Siege, both games had better version of stone/gem skins for guns, much better
@@olegdusov4273 I get what your saying but green shades are the worst
w blunt rotation right here
WEED!!1
reading this comment while being high feels good
L take and L druggie
That shit will ruin your lungs. Took me a couple years to get back to my full breathing capacity. Quit while you’re ahead bro you’ll be happy you did
Spawn camping feels so bad. It's not a mechanic I really even want in the game
While they were talking about comms, I'm surprised nobody brought up how just the modern console party chat system makes it extremely difficult to find anybody talking in game chat because console has no push to talk button.
Also, on Xbox, I find it only works like half the time
question: the button "Share" cannot be remapped to do "push to speak"?? or any button be remapped to do another thing??, how the elite controller extra buttons can be useful if a mapping function does not exists
just use always talk, who cares.
@@Brendonn69thissssssss. Hate it
i NEED 8 hour podcasts
on push the team that is winning is usually fighting an uphill battle because the losing team will have defenders advantage with high grounds. It doesn't make sense for you to instantly start getting progress on the objective when you win a fight with an inherit advantage (which is the reason clash feels so awful)
He’s. It’s like Avrl wants no rewards for winning fights, unless you’ve lost multiple fights before. He essentially wants you to be able to lose 5 fights, even the game be even after you win 2
Why not automatically join team chat : talk if you want, dont talk if you want, and mute the people that are wack ?
jade stones can look like the overwatch weapon skins, depending on the quality. it's just that this type of jade is very rare and it's more common to see the paler version of the stone. and it's actually a more apt description imo because emerald stones are less opaque than jade.
The OW skins version just looks like green metallic spraypaint on plastic weapons, thats the main issue. The green color and Jade itself is fine, could be awesome even, but man did they fumble the textures and tonality so hard.
@Real_MisterSir yeah i agree, it looks like they just took the gold weapon skin texture and changed the color values of it lol
10/10 geologist take
Damn, SVB doesn't even play anymore lmao 🤣🤣 were cooked
I don't know anyone that plays anymore. The last 4 friends I had left playing all switched to Deadlock and already told me they aren't coming back. OW2 is cooked
Ow has been « cooked » for years yet we’re still here.
After Marvel Rivals beta I completely stopped playing Ow, just waiting for it to release playing random games a bit: CoD, ForHonor, Herosles of the Storm, Apex
@@johnsonspark171 'ow is cooked' yeah and it was cooked when pve was cancelled, when ow2 launched, when the devs abandoned ow1 in the final years, when brig released broken yadda yadda yadda
its never cooked, people just love doomposting
@@Jtsvv96 OW2 is just a dressup simulator with a skin store and game attached. OW2 is dogshit
AVRL is such a contrarian he’ll disagree with you for agreeing with him
my mistake is watching while AVRL is in the title
AVRL is clearly an intelligent guy, but it seems like if there is a disagreement he doesn't even try to understand the other person's points and just keeps repeating his own.
I could very well be wrong, but i think armour was an anti-spam staging tool, that doubled as anti tank buster.
I agree with your points yall made about Comming. As a console player every game is either empty comms or people complain asking someone to swap (even if we’re winning) and its just not worth it anymore. Occasionally I listen in on comms and no one has given actual information on comms ever. Thats not an exaggeration either, it’s either empty comms or two people calling eachother names because of their KD or how one specific stat is bad so theyre bad.
DUDE THESE GUYS ARE COOKING WITH THIS COMP REWARDS DISCUSSION!! PLEASE GAVIN, PASS THIS INFO ON!!!
Bro, it’s such a minor thing but the fact that they changed it from emerald to jade makes me so annoyed. Emerald, sure, looks close enough. But Jade? Jade looks very different from this, and it’s really annoying because we know they can do good jade textures. There are a few skins that have convincing jade elements, they are capable of doing it, so why is it not on the guns???? Very minor complaint all things considered, but it makes me so irrationally mad.
the fact you care about skins than how bad this game is makes me more annoyed.
THANK YOU Samito FOR STICKING UP FOR THE SHIMADAS👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Was not the vacuum on the brave little toaster named “Kirby” and not “Hoover”? Am I tripping is this Mandela effect
Well maybe if the Jade weapons skins actually looked good people would’ve complain that they don’t work on any character. It’s literally just bright green with no texture at all. That is not Jade. That is not good. It’s lazy to just turn the gold skin into green and give it a different name… just give us some actual effort and we won’t complain
It’s easier to convince m friends to play mystery heroes, and sometimes i just feel like playing a random support and try to make it work
The wave respawn makes a massive difference at lower ranks and rewards bad gameplay it’s gotta go
100% gotta go ASAP
Avrl clearly doesn’t play the game enough..
I love the new mystery heroes.
Sucks to see AVRL here. But I know Flats said he's not gonna be on the podcast for a while, because he feels like he never has anything of substance to add to the debate
@26:32 we suffer the same thing in open queue , open queue was beautiful before 5v5 buffed the tanks now it’s ruined , justice for open queue. justice for arcade
I came here from Spotify to say that I think a good way to solve push is to just have a goal of meters traveled you need to win, and either the first to reach X amount of meters or pushes the bot all of the way to the end wins. So if enemy team has 100 meters and you win, the second they’re all off payload it starts tracking your progress as you push it.
For the gold weapon skins, I want it to be either the primary or secondary collor, not the whole weapon. Illari, for example, her weapon has a cool pattern on the thoth skin, and I would love if it stayed and wasn't covered up.
As someone who mainly plays mystery heroes as my main mode I find the new mystery heroes role lock semi interesting but me personally I like the ability to be able to pop off at any of the roles at any point in the match and this new version limits it and I find it more boring. I get trying to balance mystery heroes but at the same time the chaos is what makes mystery heroes great and I find it boring to just get a random hero in only one role. Especially because if I play in damage only then my chances of getting widow who I suck at greatly increase and that is just boring. I feel this is more of a change for someone who wasn't too big of a fan of mystery heroes rather than a change for the mystery heroes fanbase, just my take though.
Balancing for different ranks is frickin cringe spilo did NOTT cook with that
Thank you Spilo and Avrl for making this an actual Debate as the title suggests.
Wow. Avrl is a man after my own heart.
I literally paused the video in the first few sentences of him talking about Clash early in the video and started breaking down the things I think are major with Clash and Push. Then I hit play and watched him say the exact same things I was thinking. Like almost exact. Even using the comparison of KOTH vs Push with one team capturing the objective on KOTH and it subtracts the enemies percentage of what they have already gained first.
Same thing with Clash having major issues where the game just gives the losing team a huge break and advantage for losing and "rewards" the winning team with a huge disadvantage.
I’ve been waiting for thissss
I’ve made this comment a few months ago, and I find Avrl being totally against it without real concrete reasons other than he feels like it shouldn’t. We SHOULD balance the game based on skill levels, in all 3 American professional sports (football, baseball and basketball) the rules progress and make it harder than an elementary/high school/ university level. Why not make it more satisfying for a beginner to have a wider hit box, shrinking to a higher level. This makes it more impressive and makes things like a headshot more impactful and awe inspiring to watch in pro levels. All levels enjoy a quality of life game, and strive for reaching a higher level of play, while respecting with greater appreciation the ones who can climb to the top.
hog is actually very good he just doesn't reward clueless players now. i'm a hog player and i'm having a good time. watch cyx, he destroys with hog. hog doesn't need high winrate. ball, doom, dva also needs to be like this. if you are good at the hero, you make it work anyways. i'm honestly surprised how good hog is right now and how poor his winrate is. the most healthy state for him.
Irrelevant, just because cyx shows what he does doesn’t mean he shows when he gets demolished. Hog is not good, hog has really never been that good. Nothing in his kit has anything to do with tanking or peeling. He’s just a fat dps with no armor, he’s really bad. I can tell you’re just gold/plat peak lol
@@lesstalk2239 im t500 with hog lol. you just dont know how to play the game. he is one of the most played tank in t500. more than ram, sig, orisa, mauga combined. he is very good. he just doesnt reward idiots right now.
Not sure what the other guy is on about. I've seen plenty of Hog players on TikTok that absolutely demolish the enemy team. Hook-oneshotting a squishy will always be broken, and now that players are starting to use his rotating corner hook tech he's able to absolutely massacre the enemy Tank by misplacing them and body blocking them for him and his entire team to shoot them while they're out of their Supports LoS. Just because other Tanks appear to be a more rampant issue doesn't mean he isn't strong, it's just that now all Tanks are busted because they have to be in 5v5...
well cyx also swaps a lot when necessary. hog is definitely in a bad place right now with armor being as strong as it is. as much as id love for hog to be good right now he just obviously isn't. performing well on hog is more of a kudos to your own abilities, not to the strength of the hero.
HEY SVB I love your podcasts. Would love it if you could do a quick review of a DOTA 2 patch with Spilo and Sam just to show them what a real patch looks like. They haven't seen one ever playing overwatch.
The big problem for me with the Jade weapons is they’re… not jade. They’re metallic green, and it sparkles. Jade isn’t really all that shiny or sparkly, the whole appeal of jade is the deep smooth color . I really don’t know what compelled them to pick jade weapons and then make metallic green when they could have just gone to diamond weapons or even just used an actual jade. I think there’s actual jade on some of the skins even! just use that!
As a mystery hero player this was a terrible change and most people on Reddit hate this change.
Why?
@@thepoofster2251 the point of mystery heros is to be able to play any character at any point. Role lock prevents that and ruins the point of the mode
@@thepoofster2251 Because as a mystery heros player. None of you qp casuals know how to play the game mode.
If the enemy team has a widow who cant get a kill, dont kill them.
@@ebros2898 yeah the role lock MH is cringe because most of us like flexing and/or getting wacky comps and playing against wacky comps (also tanks are nerfed so you can KILL THEM). GOATs can be obnoxious but it's not invincible (also people don't play like pros so more often than not, a support/ tank gets bored and overextends). The only merit I see to role lock is keeping at least 1 of each (so you don't get 4 snipers vs 3 dive tanks or 4 dps vs goats), but even then the tradeoff isn't worth it.
@@SuperLifestream Didn't realize a more casual mode than qp needed a right way to play.
Id be interested to see the numbers of dps players have just left the game because of the mishandling of balance, whoch makes it look better overall for queue times, or have so many people left that the queue tomes have gotten so bad because of that.
im consistently getting >1m dps queues and >7m support queues, not any better than before just swapped roles, right after everyone confirmed multiple times that dps will always have the longes queues lmao
Watching avrl complain about push and clash just to sit there and tell spylo he’s being ridiculous when talking about push might be one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard
The Diva fix is literally giving her missiles more often at a lower damage.
Thank god SVB said it with his mini rant about why do we have they keeping making these shit game modes with Push and Clash and Flash when most players love Payload/Hybrid and KOTH.
Where can I see the locker room podcast? TH-cam?
Hopefully someone can comment on this --> Why can venture content point while underground where venture is uncontestable? It's incredibly BS to stall for free with zero risk since you can also jettison yourself at mach speeds out of the ground vs. reaper wraith doesnt and easily punished when he reappears?
@@whosurjustin Reaper's Wraith Form contests objectives
Also Mei Iceblock contests.
great podcast thanks guys
I thought Samito stopped covering OW? Been seeing a lot from him lately lol
He quits de game every 15 minutes and crawls back to it
He never said he quit it he said he would be streaming it less for a little bit awhile back to focus on mineplex
He has to pay rent.
He basically takes breaks. Recently he took a break to work on mineplex which is something he is also doing but he's got free time on his hands so he's working on OW as well.
He needs to quit.. brothers doomer takes are fuckin tiring
The issue of clash specifically rewarding the losers too much (ie. losers easily capping the final point) can be rectified by changing the point system values. Instead of 1point per cap in enemy territory, you gain 2, the total points required to win becomes 7 or higher, then you keep it at 1 point for recapturing a point on your side of the map since the gamemode makes it more difficult for the opposing team
the final point could potentially even reward 3 points in this case depending on the total amount of points required to win
@19:25 I believe he's referring to Dragon age Inquisition. The difference between on foot speed vs on horse was borderline non-existent. Adding speed lines and zooming out the camera made it feel faster than it actually moved 😂
On the mystery heroes role Q, i think it's a step for arcade player to get into the grove of normal games, first introducing the format of role lock. Plus it is a way for arcade warrior to complete dailies/ weeklies quests that require "quickplays" cuz it's not labeled as arcade so why not. I sincerely believe it's just a lil step to try to merge some arcade gamer into QP, slowly getting them to ranked with comp overdrive being the carrot at the end
I know I am late, but the main issue with removing the headshot damage reduction will be hitscan everywhere again and poke will be meta again.
Especially since they STILL havent nerfed Illari and Baptiste's damage output. And they made it easier for Kiri to do more damage while increasing the maximum amount of damage Kiri can do. And they buffed Mercy's damage boost.
They main issue we have atm is they are trying to avoid nerfing dps supports by adding passives. If Illari/Bap/Kiri didn't contribute dps levels of damage while having way more sustain, DPS could actually contribute to the team in the way they should.
2:16:48 Bro turned into Eminem right there
There's a very easy design decision to fix every problem with push. Make the total distance pushed a point system. You can win by pushing all the way to the end or by pushing the bot a total distance of 100-150 meters. This incentivises you to fight on the bot because you get total distance, and if you leave the bot in your territory it's easier for the enemy to push to the end using checkpoints.
Love listening to these when doing long car rides
Juno genuinely killed Mercy. Like her orbital strike ulti is just better *Valkyrie. And the HP nerf and not unique regeneration passive.
Edit: You guys are right so let me rephrase my comment: Juno solidifies Mercy's death even further.
Wut, Mercy has been dead since season 9. You could say the ult is a better nano, tranc, window, kitsune (debatable on that one). And the support passive has existed for almost 2 years now. Juno is not to blame for any of this lmao
5v5 killed mercy, she was way easier to balance in 6v6 when sustain was actually a playstyle and not a cringe side effect of supports being too strong (besides brig and bap, they still need to get sent to the farm)
@@YazzPott even in ow2 mercy gameplay revolved around pocketing somebody capable of essentially solo carrying with a dmg boost, which essentially means having to play the neutral against a souped up pharah/ashe/soldier/widow thats capable of solo carrying without a mercy pocket anyways. In 6v6 she just had way more nuance after moth meta was nerfed and rezzes didn’t fundamentally break how team fights are supposed to work w mass rezzes
You mean better valkyrie, yes it is but that doesnt make mercy bad, she already was since ever
Mercy has a passive playstyle. Passive playstyle don't play well in 5v5 which is the nature of the format. It's why Mercy and Lifeweaver are both struggling because their offensive prowess is almost non-existent.
Juno plays like a mobile version of Ana and Bap so she translate well into 5v5.
I think that I'm likely the target audience for getting to play comp again. I played it in OW1 but stopped at OW2.
The problem with putting cosmetics behind playing ranked games is... they've done that plenty already, and people like myself who don't value cosmetics (to show off rank, etc) won't try playing a game mode that is much less fun due to it being 2x as long as QP and much more salty and sweaty. I've got golden guns, what else is better then that? Unless they come out with a 'rainbow' one where you can choose near any color to match skins, it's no real use.
A proper solution to get me back into ranked is to...fix ranked. Blizz needs to add the basic details that MOBAs have. I'm talking F2 shows actual numbers and stats, not just "heals allies." DVA matrix says it negates projectiles, but doesn't mention the duration, exceptions (sig rock), or that it slowly recharges even. Other games that are competitive have these details. Why do I have to read a wiki to learn actual numbers for everything? Either balance the game around casual players to play ranked, or add the actual content which comp games have and balance for the higher ranks.
Hey at least they are making the other roles play mystery heros as well cause everyone knows tanks have already been playing this since OW2 started
The inherent problem with this game competitively, is ranked is literally the exact same as QP but with extra rounds in the gamemodes that call for it. And I just dont think that makes for good competitive integrity. We can laugh & joke about COD all day but playing that game at a high level they cater competitive to what has the most competitive integrity and adjust the gamemodes and hoe the game is played accordingly. Theres only 3 set gamemodes, theres only a certain mapset, certain weapons and perks/attachments are allowed, and its meant to keep the game as fair and competitive as possible and getting rid of all the cheesy/OP stuff. Now I dont think OW should completely follow that line of thinking but the fact a brand new gamemode like clash immediately gets added into comp without comp being considered at all at a core design level is mind boggling to me. The fact heroes like Sombra who arent strong but just inherently not competitive heroes because of perma invisibility and hacking players abilities, are able to be played in a competitive setting is strange. OW should really consider tweaking the game a bit when it comes to comp to make it more fundamentally competitive. Because especially with SBMM in QP, QP is literally competitive without the extra offense/defense or the ELO to show for wins/losses.
If overwatch was played by cod pros, sombra and junkrat would get GAd so fast lmao
@@bentocod Stg they would be 🤣
Damn. Now I have to be up until 4 am. Love these videos ❤
I think an important point around this 'skill of things' is that skill only really matters in the realms that people are interested in expressing it.
We could make overwatch headshot only and that would be extremely skill scaling, but people wouldn't enjoy it.
On the other hand, staggers only exist as a consequence of the limitations of how you can actually deploy a respawn system.
Death itself should be the punishment for dying.
Why did this audience degenerade to a "I think this guest is washed" --> "No, I think this guest is the best" kind of thing.
You all literally are clapping if theres someone who you agree with and booing if there is someone you disagree with.
No, some people have genuinely bad takes. Spill is almost universally loved and it's not because he somehow agreed with everyone's takes. It's because he's knowledgeable about the game and he's able to get his point across in a way that makes sense and not sound like an asshole. People dislike sam because he's aggressive and can sound like a dick when he says things, although sam is also very knowledgeable about the game as well. People hate freedo because his takes are tone deaf and he doesn't seem to know as much about the game as he thinks he does and he comes across as arrogant. It's not about agreeing and disagreeing with takes, it's how the people come across in general
@@AngrySecs This is not universally true, Freedo has literally came on here and has had points that weren’t even that crazy and people still are sick of him. It doesn’t really matter what he says at this point the audience just dislikes him and feels the need to even justify it lol. If you don’t like seeing someone who you disagree with maybe really try seeing their perspective. I for one don’t agree with Sam on many things but when he actually elaborates I can see his side at least. Let the discussion be had.
@@Bossking1you didn’t understand the persons comment. Sam and freedo come off as arrogant. Moreso Sam more than freedo but Sam is just an angry person and is a “am I wrong” type of person. And no one likes a “am I wrong” type of person. As the commenter said, it’s about how it comes across. You can agree with someone even if they communicate in a way you dislike and vice versa. I love spilo as he’s level headed and communicates well above the rest. Also if you continually shit on a game saying you quit or whatever and then keep coming back it’s really counterintuitive to keep having these discussions. Like if you say you’re gonna leave leave no need to announce it 😊
@@Daveyjonesvi that is such a flawed black and white way of thinking. Logic >>>>>> feelings. And Sam is more knowledgeable about the game then spilo and freedo. Just because you’re level headed doesn’t mean you have good takes. Although spilo doesn’t have glaring bad takes often he’s still less knowledgeable about the game and choosing to listen to a less knowledgeable person because you don’t like how the more knowledgeable person puts things makes you apart of the problem. Freelo gets hate because he ISNT knowledgeable and comes off as arrogant and is insanely hypocritical or just down right misrepresentative. Also Sam has never announced to leave overwatch until marvel rivals became a thing. Yall literally lie out your mouth to paint people in a certain light just cuz they don’t like what you like and it’s disgusting.
is that what this sounds like?
"@philistine3260 AVRL repeatedly fails to understand what conversation is about, people try to elaborate so he catches up, AVRL doesn't even try to listen, keeps interrupting and spitting out whatever random thought he had in his head.
It's actually infuriating.
@biemsu7426
13 hours ago
him sperging out that push sucks as if spilo wasnt saying the same thing
he probably is the worst person on these podcasts, such great takes such as in the 6v6 debate him saying low elo players only play one character but also simultaneously low elo players always counterswap or whatever trite bad faith shit he said to hawk"
I do like the wave respawns. I'm a Gold, sometimes plat, player. And it's so frustrating just watching people spawn, run straight to point and die. At least now they might have a couple people with them and it forces them to group up a little.
Now if I could just get my team to learn there is another option between win every fight or die every fight. If our support gets picked the second the fight starts... it is possible to just fall back to cover and wait 5 seconds... instead of diving in, using every cooldown to live for 5 seconds... then die. Just in time for the first support to get back and do the same lol
To fix the bot or payload problem they can just do it like Marvel Rivals so you don’t need to have a dedicated payload pusher the whole time. Nobody likes being the payload guy, nobody wants to be the payload guy. If the push bot jitters when it’s faster than the player, the easiest and simplest possible solution is to unlink those two. The bot doesn’t need to be pushed by the player. Just make it so it changes directions and walks by itself every time a different team touches it once, and stops when they contest it at the same time.
Sombra mains would love this. Touch the bot once during the fight while the other team isn’t on it, off it goes lol. Half way thru the fight on the enemy teams bridge, they realize the bot is pushing the load under their bridge. Sounds great haha
Is AVRL listening during 2:30:37?
I had an idea when they were asking for potential solutions to the push problem. Maybe when the bot can create some sort of symetra style telporter for 30 seconds to go back to the middle point after its been running for like 10-20 meters or maybe even a one way teleporter is created on the checkpoint so you only have to push it back one checkpoint length to get it back to the middle. I dont have a strong stance on push, but i think this is a possible solution if blizzard thinks its an issue.
imo, the worst thing about flash is the map designs. the maps should've been designed where there are spawn-rooms on each corner and the point are in the middle on equal distance from both spawn-room.
In the 13 seasons of OW2 the only thing holding this game together is the art direction, Juno design is so well done, she reminds me of a cute-sexy jetsons/ flash gordon comicbook space girl and blends so well in a world with talking gorillas
What if we removed or reduced defenders advantage in the last point and made clash round based like control? Once you get 5 points, you get 1 point for the round. You have to get another 5 points to get the second point and win. Increase cap rate significantly too. Making it round based resets snowball potential with each new round and allows the map to be less defender biased since losing the last point just once doesn’t lose you the entire map.
Jade is just awful. I use it on Junkrat sometimes because it fits his chaotic vibe and matches some skins nicely, while also clashing with others in ways that I like BUT it doesn't look like JADE. It's just the Gold texture with the hue scale changed. It's embarrassing that they thought it was okay to release this as a Competitive reward! Not that they care though.
Yea it looks like cheap plastic. I think they went with "Jade" for their Chinese player base.
I thought Avrls takes were hot months ago but I now see he is a genius yelling in the town square and we ignored him! He was right that season 9 changes needed to sit longer if it did, we wouldn't have super tanks. Before that even happened he said that he was saying that we needed tiny tanks with less specialization in this format and he just perfectly summed up my feelings on Push. The first time I played it I thought there was no way they play tested this and thought doing something for ZERO reward is a fun game mechanic. I've become and AVRL believer. Give him a community balance patch and let him cook 👨🏻🍳👨🏻🍳👨🏻🍳
Solution to the bot reset problem:
Add a long capture bar like a control point to the bot rather than just getting it by being on it.
Then make it so the bot automatically goes back to the middle point quickly unless an enemy contests it. That way you don’t have to worry about the bot moving faster than players and allows players to use their movement to get back to the middle without having to worry about moving the bot
16:28 if you knew anything about the Lore of Warcraft you'd know that Zen getting a Thrall skin is ABSOLUTELY PERFECT!
Why does he have Mjolnir instead of daddy Torb though
@@nailinthefashion it's not Mjolnir, it's called The Doomhammer
@@Bluemansonic why doesn't daddy Torb have it, he has a nice, thick, powerful hammer but it could be sexier
I heard they share similar beliefs like peace and tranquility
@@Waseemmmm Thrall has an entire campaign dedicated to him in Warcraft (I forgot which game), they all do except King Magni and Sylvanas I think
On the Hanzo changes… answer this. Why does Widow get 300 damage headshots (better than hanzo), hitscan (better than hanzo) a consistent short range gun not on cooldown (better than hanzo), long range mobility cooldown (better than hanzo), smaller hitbox (better than hanzo).
Widow needs to be reworked. She needs a dedicated bolt action sniper, slow ads speed, slow rechamber speed, max damage of 250, a dedicated close range weapon on cooldown, and larger hitbox.
Hanzo needs what spilo said. 300 damage headshots with falloff, faster arrow knock speed, and a buff to dragon.
Splio is not wrong on OT and Push in gold I have won and lost games in overtime. I have seen it happen on escort a lot too.
Imo the easiest fix to push is making the score based off of how far the bot has travelled and not how far it went. Pushing the actual barricade should be worth 2-3 points per meter and when the bot is traveling without it it’s 1 point per meter. This allows the defending team to start making progress without actually pushing the barricade.
Role queue MH is a terrible change, completely ruins the point of the game mode for me. RQ MH forces me to play support and support only, my tank queue is 20 minutes and DPS is 10. At least open queue MH is still in the arcade but now the queue times are split between these two modes, instead of just having the one queue.
1:43:13 This isn’t just in overwatch but it’s apparent in OW2. Games aren’t made for fun anymore. They are made to please shareholders. This is pretty much the enshitification of everything these days. Everything is made to generate profit so the point of the game isn’t to see “who is the best at Overwatch”. The point is to hold players in an addictive game loop and slightly change numbers so they buy skins and get just enough dopamine to keep coming back. They don’t actually know what good game design is. I think samito said this in another video but they hired a mobile game dev. To make a mobile game apparently
Talking Point: Competitive Point Shop alternatives
My biggest critique of current OW2 is that past event/pass offerings are left to the aether with no relaunch in sight despite dome like Pass items beibg default visible in the gallery. They showed recently with Gamepass that you can code a purchase for some of these FOMO items too, so why not like comp points be used for past BP items at the least, if not most cosmetics that are locked behind some arbitrary thing (for example, Playstation Lifeguard Pharah, eventually the OWL skins, or Doctor Ziegler Mercy) not saying bringing back the hyper rare skins ie Blizzcon/Terran Rein etc. (although not opposed to very high comp costs), but there's a ton of incentive even for grinders within that vault.
I think push might be more fun then flashpoint or clash
The Push respawn and comeback convo just had me laughing. The mode is dogshit. It's a bad idea and tweaking numbers ain't gonna fix that. Too bad they took so much of their dev time making 4 maps of this nonsense.
Wave respawns should be for the metal ranks, once you hit diamond 5 there should be no wave respawns.
Staggering is just a part of skill expression and shouldnt be taken away, but i can see how it would improve lower ranked games so there is my solution.
should be no wave respawn at all, it's horrible, wtf you are talking about.
@@tylerbacoka4248 i never said i liked it 😂 but i can see the arguement for it being in low ranks
They should intentionally stagger the respawns at diamond and at top 500: no more respawning. You die, you lose. Just don't die 4head. I thought you were good at the game? Why you dying?
What if you lowered the bomb damage but made it controllable. Similar to bastions ult
could they not set the bot to just go until intercepted, so u can go throughthe shorter paths and get ahead of the bot?
I have four global animated sprays for buying a he gold edition of Warcraft 3 and I’m the only one I’ve seen with these they have had sprays like this in the game for a while so idk why sprays in general aren’t just animated
Because they are exclusive. There is a reason you got them by buying something aint cheap.
Why we cant equip any weapon on any skin? Because otherwise no one would buy weapon skins.