Samito wanted to clarify that he's not 100% on the stats he cited from Overbuff about the tank stats, since he thinks they actually show the pick rates of the heroes, as opposed to the rates of people queueing the role. This episode was recorded on 14th June 2024. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not let SVB know on his stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) The best way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-dps-debate-2024 Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265
Statement about Sam is 100% Accurate. Keep in mind, Overwatch Reddit AMA Confirmed that Overbuff was pretty accurate. Could be less, could be more, but the number is still quite close, and speaks volumes.
It's probably true. I've grinded tanks since ow1 S2 it's always been my main role and I tried grinding through mauga Orisa meta etc but I finally stopped playing it. It's just not enjoyable especially in high rank games where certain comps will force you to have to play certain tanks that aren't fun it's not worth the time anymore. Currently playing dps
@@o0_VanYsH_0o This isn't true. Overbuff has had an outage since venture was added. The results are similar when overbuff is working, but it currently isn't.
@@o0_VanYsH_0o > Overwatch Reddit AMA Confirmed that Overbuff was pretty accurate Remember that the exact quote specified when it comes to win rates. The pick rate data is skewed and not an accurate representation of how many people are playing the role. If it's still not clear, for an Overwatch role queue game to happen, it must have 1 tank, 2 dps and 2 support. So unless you're using games where role queue doesn't exist, that's the only way you end up with role pick rates that are different to 20%/40%/40%. This is why the comment above mentions the rates of people queueing the role, since that data would actually tell us something, but sadly that data is not something we can collect.
@@o0_VanYsH_0o Samito's argument doesn't make sense when you boil it down, though. Tanks are powerful now and feel terrible; there aren't enough tank players and there were even less tank players in 6v6, hence the bribing. His solution is to *make tanks weaker* and add another one to team comps and mystically people who didn't play tank before will suddenly flock to playing tank again? Make it make sense. It doesn't. It's just rose colored glasses on a game he raged about back then and refuses to admit just how much he hated that too.
Sam, Spilo, and Flats are the *only* content creators I’ve seen on here consistently willing to talk about Overwatch as a game in an honest fashion. Even when the latter two continue to hinge their reputations upon _such an idiotic and self-sabotaging decision as 5v5 was,_ at least I can assume that they (somehow?) actually believe what they’re saying to be true and aren’t just lying to save face with the community.
@@suffishes1454spilo said that 6v6 is more convenient and a lot easier to balance in his stream with samito. He just says he knows they won’t go back to it and he wants to try to fix 5v5 as much as he can
@@abdx8752 which is not only based on a false premise (Spilo mentioned them going back on “Experimental” modes in Overwatch 2), but the _overall_ assumption that “5v5 is fixable with better design in Overwatch” has been proven time and time again to be inherently false, with mutiple core changes to gameplay and several new heroes & gamemodes over two years; Constant change with new content would be the norm in 5v5 or 6v6, yet only one distinctly forces bad character design, lazy “balance” changes, and constant tweaking of the core mechanics of Overwatch itself, only for the game loop to be _functional at best._
We love you Abby! Your Microsoft vid was both heartbreaking but also 100% what a lot of us are feeling right now. God is it so frustrating to see where OW is treated by the gaming scene currently, considering where it could have and very arguably should have been.
@@alanwiseman3235Kajor gets in his feelings like a woman though (not being sexier or anything!). He just gets very emotional when there’s push back and it doesn’t feel like he’s your average dude.
Can we get a "the great one-trick debate" and include some of the one-trick players, like Arrge, Kenzo, SewerRat/Vulture, etc,? They are being excluded from these conversations and they shouldnt. I think the usual cast on this show play at a very mid to wide cast of heroes which does not represent a lot of the player base that plays the game because of ONE hero.
yes, whenever they discuss something specific about heroes, they should have a specialist. hanzo and junkrat specialist didn't even had a chance to defend themselves. also, they assume that some heroes are doing pretty bad or are simply trash when it isn't true for all ranks. reaper and symm are great examples of this, they still perform good enough on metal. and we all know the balance team look at the big picture, not only top players.
@@sakitoshi samito is a good hanzo player so he kinda represents the hanzo community. I agree though, the bash on junkrat was pretty unfair with no one there to defend the character. Characters like reaper and symm though, not sure if they are doing well even in the metal ranks. Their overbuff stats look pretty rough. I'd say widowmaker fits what you are describing better where she is absolutely dominating in the top and not that good at the bottom.
I was screaming for that when they talked about Sombra. Sombra might be fine atm, but she's *very* different from how she was initially. Adding more burst but removing the translocator had a much bigger effect than non-Sombra players realize. I think most would much rather have kept the old translocator, but have a non-perma invisibility. The best suggestion I've seen is that her invis is based on movement; she goes invis, and a bar drains as she moves. When it runs out she turns visible, but if she *doesn't* move, she can stay invisible. Think about what that'd do. It'd create "Sombra spots" that Sombra players would consider optimal to hide and wait for someone to approach, and these spots have to change when the community realize, and then Sombra players will have to find new spots. This would literally replicate the IT security vs hackers arms race. This prevents her from spawncamping efficiently, emote spamming people and just generally being annoying. Instead her engages relies on Sombra getting something out of it: If she doesn't, she uses translocator to escape and now has both abilities on cooldown - if someone correctly identifies where her escape was, you've made Sombra a sitting duck, completely without abilities. And while she waits for cooldowns, the enemy team has earned a numbers advantage. Current Sombra is fine, but she's not Sombra anymore. She's a risktaking assassin, which doesn't even apply to her lore or presentation either.
Freedo should go back to being depressed on his own, and stop using his obvious illness as an excuse to belittle the people that fund his livelihood with condescending behavior.
@@toons4934 I love when Spilo is on, man, he brings so much to the discussion with extremely well thought out points and solutions for characters...his whole youtube channel is the same way. Absolutely love the guy. ALWAYS great to see him on and him and Samito are so great together, too, I agree!
Imagine if Zarya's charge went up even if you shoot her with no bubble on, imagine if doom's punch got charged if he isnt blocking? Thats Soujorn for you. She gets rewarded for interacting with you, but you have 0 counterplay or agency in this process.
@@Adventist1997 Not a good comparison, Zarya and doom rely on external damage for their utility whereas Sojourn relies on her own damage output for her utility. I understand the point trying to be made but that comparison isn't good.
@@vigour6786 1. RMB is not utility, in Overwatch by utility players mean abilities that help the team or themselves besides dealing damage or healing, like sleep, suzu, magnetic grenade, etc. 2. I even summarized the point by the end for people like you - interaction with 0 counterplay or agency, and examples reflect that statement. External or not, it's about how some heroes can be played around and some cannot. The same way roadhog's vape is these days, you can't do anything about him vaping unless you have ana, even if you stun him, he will continue 1 sec later, because its on the meter now, his ult is uninterruptible too in OW2. Boring design, 0 risk 100% reward.
@@vigour6786 But that's not the point. Reacting to damage has counterplay. You just don't shoot Zarya and Doom. You can't counter someone shooting because everyone will always be shooting.
I just started queueing DPS. It's fun to learn new heroes and especially since every game doesn't feel like I'm in an active warzone desperately trying to hold on for dear life.
It's crazy, it's almost like 6v6 was in people's mind since the beginning and not a "trend" that Samito started. Almost like the format is one of the core issues of the game that need to be addressed 🤔 but somehow it's Sam who's spreading "negativity" by being the "Ben Shapiro of OW". 🤔
It is funny, because as these conversations go on further talking about the different problems in the game. The one reoccuring theme is 6v6. And as much as they say they should try talking about other things (even Samito trying to stay away from it) it is inevitable, because it is the CRUX of the issue. Tank suffers from being hard focused, DPS suffer from not being able to duel tanks and supports suffer from the DPS passive which was introduced to reduce their insane healing. And what is the solution? 6v6. Tank has a teammate to split pressure (and more importantly enemy cooldowns) and can also contest multiple areas of the map at the same time. DPS can duel tanks that misplay because their health is lower and cooldowns are weaker. And supports dont have to deal with the DPS passive (all general role passives should be removed perhaps excluding the passive heal) AND healing wont be as strong because there are 2 tanks to split the healing resources and cooldowns. It is so obundantly clear.
Dude, DPS are capable of dueling supports just not 2 at the same time where they need to use all four abilities to keep themselves alive. Especially in comparison to the duel state before the DPS passive. 6v6 is always going to run into the issue of queue times no matter what so that’s a done deal right there :P
@@why8642no it isnt... if the game is balanced well and its fun q times will be fine. The q time gaslight is dead. Getting 12 minute dps qs in comp in masters is insane.
@@DriplessShrimp Baseline 6v6 tanking wasn’t fun, even before role queue. Same problem of exploding, but you’d sprinkle in a lot of CC spam. So no, it was fundamentally a bogged down experience that drove players away. It just became more obvious when they added role queue and people were actively forced to select tank. I like playing Tank more now than I ever did in that rumble in the jungle, flung across the map 7 times while I don’t get to press a single button format you prefer. The endless cope of “just balance 6v6 better, then people would have loved it” is based on nothing but a self affirming cycle to make yourself feel better about the “terrible” state of the game. It’s just so tiresome. 12 min queue times for masters DPS? Must have missed it lmao, I don’t get those. Unless you’re talking about OW1 queue times? I didn’t play DPS in diamond 6v6 because of the consistent long queue times, it was just faster to play tank. Think the most I’ve waited in OW2 was a 7min queue, queueing with a a duo who was diamond and also queued DPS, we’re talking max range SR diff. When are you queuing to get a 12min queue? At 4AM?
@@why8642 Youre in the minority though, even if Overbuff Stats are not accurate its very very clear the % of Tank palyers is much lower than in OW1 And no even in 2016 Tanking was more fun because people didnt know better and there actually wasnt that much CC on release, the worst thing was Cass Flash, Hog Hook or Mei Freeze the other things were ults The biggest CC offenders (Sombra Hack, Doomfist whole Kit, Ball Knockbacks or Knockups, Orisa Pull, Brig Bash) all were DLC Heroes, the Original Cast actually didnt have that much CC and all of those things got changed and could have also been changed in 6v6. There also werent any "Get out of jail for free" heroes like Kiriko, Moira, Weaver or Bap which allowed tanks to make more plays You dont need a lot of CC against Duo Tanks, but what duo tanking does is give you more freedom of Picking Heroes and on how you want to play, sure there will sometimes be a feeding off-tank, but the same thing can happen in 5v5
I didn’t realize the 5v5/6v6 debate was a blocked topic for the devs to discuss with creators. What a cowardly policy. (To be clear, I don’t necessarily blame the devs themselves-like Spilo said, it may well be a corporate decision)
I think a hanzo flame arrow like ash and bind it to change weapons button or a arrow that makes a floor puddle and have to hit it with flame arrow for space denial that ignites the floor use it as your storm arrow u get one oil arrow a flame arrow or 2 of each so it's a combo thing and there is no time limit on storm. I think combining with sonic arrow helps you with where to deny space. Maybe make oil slow when ignited helps with mobility. Makes the ultimate more useful.
I'm just glad tank players are slowing down. I love tank, its my second favorite role and I've questioned maining it over and over in the lifetime of this game. But blizzard needs to see the role is not okay (in this format imo but who could say why for sure)
@@KingOfNebbishes my parents belittle me, don't need kids on the Internet doing the same 😁, and if you aren't communicating in comp I'm shitting on somebody else's experience ya know?
@@cheeseblast There's pings. There's nothing a competitive player who isn't directly being paid by you to coach needs to say to you in a game that they can't ping.
@@ecclecticsayonce5131 ^ | | This dude is average hitscan player that starts to complain if he'll die from anything that isn't point-and-click adventure hero like widow or ashe.
What slander? They just spat facts. He is a horribily designed hero at base and is unfun when he is good or bad. Overwatch is not fun when junkrat is played. Overwatch is about postioning team fights, cool down mangament. No brainless spam with no skill slpash damage and unavoidable mine damage. He is clunky, slow, no dyanimcs, or interesting abilites. Trap is one of the wrost abilites I've ever seen in a game. He basically has one ability. This is not a binary world. We can hate junkrat and widow at the same time both heros are horibble.
because of her specific playstyle which is hide and hit headshots. for her OW1 is basically Kovaaks. ZZzzzzz. No one wants Widow getting 5ks. Delete snipers tbh.
@@DragneelXx tell me how. with hero damage fall off nerf in OW2 and the amount of sustain, burst healing, larger health pools etc. Widow is not better in OW2. The only time Widow is good is in your silver games where your team are bunny hopping around in the open shouting SHOOT ME WIDOW!, PICK ME!
@@retrorevival1 widow can one shot everyone in the game now and before the health changes the only person she can’t one shot is tanks and she couldn’t do that in ow1 either tell me ur plat without telling me ur plat widow has always good in higher ranks then lower ranks because people have bad aim the higher u go the better widow is because they can actually hit heads and because now there’s one less tank to block the widow/dive it means she had less pressure on her all game they literally nerfed widows effective rage for the one shot because of how dominant she was in higher ranks and now because of the higher health pools she has to charge a little more but barely the only time widow isn’t good is when dive is meta plz shut ur mouth if u don’t know what ur talking about cuz it just makes u look stupid there’s no way u honestly think widow is better in silver than masters+ u mean the rank where Ana’s struggle to hit a tank stand 2ft in front of them the rank where people it 1/3 of there shots because the can’t aim and u think widow a character who’s only useful if u hit headshots is better in a rank where people can’t hit shots then in ranks where people can???? Yea ok buddy
@@kayanonosame here, Tank is fun, the game is fun Always remember that happy people have less of a need to express their happiness online. They'd rather spend their time having fun by playing the game itself, you know
Hot Take: Widow shouldn’t be nerfed until they address immortality abilities and perma heal turrets. Then you can gut her ass cause you can actually kill shit at that point.
I’m just going to say it: Freedo should try to find another near-death experience to boost his confidence, like he mentioned in his 6v6 video. I really dislike how he weaponized his personal issues at the end of that one, especially after being so condescending every other time he was on camera. I have zero respect for that behavior from him.
I feel like they should add aim punch to widow when she is scoped. Like in tf2 you could shoot at the sniper across the map as a scout to throw off his aim.
I mean, they're giving Cass his fucking flashbang back, so fuck it, pull the goddamn trigger, make it 6v6 again. It won't fix the problem and queue times will tank even harder, but its the only solution, I guess. Back to a 500 HP, paper thin Rein, I guess.
To me, the worst part about DPS is playing against supports that effortlessly erase your value. rez, life weaver pull, suzu, lamp, burst healing. Super frustrating
@@sakitoshi It shouldn't reverse it, it should mitigate it (that's not going to mention the invulns on 3 of the abilities mentioned), that's the issue. Mitigation abilities like Defense Matrix should "reverse damage" so to speak.
But you know its tanks have the ability to mitigate damage, they have that ability to reduce that damage intake with either shields or self-healing or maybe their own form of DR. Supports heal away that damage taken.
Samito would do pretty well at balancing many of the heroes. Deku and Jay either don't bring a lot of ideas or are a bit biased. I guess Jay is aware of it and laughed about it while not being full of himself (hi Freedo) so that's alright, he seems like a good guy. But Spilo is for sure the one with the better takes on hero design and balance.
The smoothbrain takes on Sym from everyone except Spilo... sigh. "She's weak and hard to use but I hate her so keep her bad" and they go on to like defend Widow later on, an *actual* problematic hero. BFFR
I mean, don't blame them for having that sentiment against Sym. OTPs are the bane of a lot of people. Sym herself can be quiet annoying as well even if she's objectively garbage. Either way, they should've tried to come up with something to make her better and healthier instead of just bashing her.
Overwatch 2 cured my Overwatch addiction. Im so tired of ow2. The only reason i still play is because of hope that it will return to being fun. Its genuinely so miserable, and im fully burnt out atp. Im tired of being let down by lazy, incompetent and stubborn developers.
To be fair up until recently the devs had their hands tied + several people who worked on the game were layed off last year. However I have lost all hope especially after they announced pve was cancelled for months but they kept quiet, as well as refusing to address the 6v6 conversation.
@@Atlacatt I doubt the 5v5 decision was Bobby Koticks or higher ups at activision, i do agree with the layoffs though, its very noticeable how the Quality in Skins dropped or that they have less people working on the game But idk, the game isnt dying but it isnt really growing that much either, they need something big to make people play but they just dont have it (I for one would rebrand to just "Overwatch" and reblance for 6v6 and announce it at a big event)
Same. If OW2 was 6v6, I wouldn’t be typing this comment right now, I would be playing OW2. But it’s more fun to reply to TH-cam comments than play OW2 currently.
For the entirety of Mirrorwatch arcade mode Tank had the highest queue times, most I've seen peaking 20 minutes. Possibly the only time I had fun playing tank in months.
Is this podcast not 100% better without freedo over taking the conversation and being super defensive? Seems a lot smoother without freedo gunking it up.
I don't think that the length of playtime has a huge effect. I've only been playing since the beginning of Overwatch 2 and I have felt frustrated or bored with the game since season 8, playing consistently less and less over time. I never played 6v6, but I really do believe that it is the only solution to the fundamental problems of Overwatch 2. I really hope they add it as an arcade mode or a QP hacked.
Before even watching this I have to say after 8 years as tank main, into tank and support flex, to then doing hours and hours of DPS QP to really hone in, I now am a DPS main. I win 80% of my comp matches in metal ranks and really feel like I’m the deciding factor the majority of the time. And I say that to speak to the role of DPS deciding the match, I really felt powerless as tank. And support was too reliant on others. DPS is simple. They die and you win. I love it.
about phara. i've been commenting for some time that she is overtuned, her fire rate and projectile speed specifically. they have increased her fire rate and projectile speed 2 times already, there is little to no pause to aim and shoot at her to take her down, you are guaranteed to take a rocket.
@@driftingbout297 i just had a game on phara and didn't die the whole time, even could barrage uninterrupted. i'm not a phara player. i usually play support. now tell me that phara isn't overtuned when someone that doesn't play phara can dominate.
I don’t get why the length of the dps passive isn’t based on the amount of damage done so that characters like widow, junk rat, and Hanzo would actually benefit from it
Absolutely cooking on the Sojourn talk, 100% agree Edit: i'd love if they swapped bap's and soldier's healing abilities, it just makes more sense to me. (Old bap regen, before the baseline 50 and double on critical health)
It’s called “Role Queue” but it’s Role Lock really, *the real Role Queue* would *possibly* have the best version between Open Queue and Rock Lock but that depends on the variations of Role Queue that we may and may not think of and those we can or can’t realise as well.
Funny how DPS and Tank have a similar mindset of generalist role passives are too "feast or famine" and were at a point that for the sake of keeping the game fresh, 6v6 at least happens for a game mode to test the balance and feedback. A note to Blizzard being a dull ult, could use her Avalanche ult from HotS; ball goes out grabbing heroes in its path, on breaking (max distance or terrain) it deals damage and stun (in OW probably either slow or hinder) with the duration based on the number of heroes it grabbed. Wait hold on they might have realized this problem with the Quickplay Hacked event coming in season 11
Something they missed on hanzo and genji is wallclimb. This ability is still so buggy and inconsistent on every map. We need to be able to climb up an awning or a slightly round cosmetic object next to the wall. Shit pisses me off and kills me often
I am a Flex DPS player and i hate when Pharah is good because she makes 90% of other flex DPS heroes (besides Echo) unplayable. Imagine coming home from school or hard day at work and you want to play some Genji but the enemy just goes rage-Pharah after 1 teamfight. Pharah should never be good
OW 2 devs doubling down every season on hit scan DPS turned OW into a COD clone. If I want a hit scan FPS there's 100s to choose from. I was there from OW launch. I finally quit this season.
@@ecclecticsayonce5131 anytime she gets asked to elaborate on anything she hits you with an "idk" lol she really doesn't bring anything to these conversations
Honestly they should just make damage boost have a hard cap at a certain point so it's helpful but not overpowering. Also, perhaps adjust sonar arrow so it gives Hanzo additional headshot damage on revealed enemies? Would keep his one shot and make it more intended rather than spamming a choke and getting a pick. Enemies would also be able to expect it more rather than turning a corner and dying. Obviously would require tweaks such as Sonar effect time and cooldown, but just a thought to maintain the best of both sides.
When they were talking about the removal of one-shot abilities, I believe this is a response to several seasons ago where the devs realises the game was really roll or get rolled. The overall health buffs, and the passive healing were meant to help make team fights last longer, and harder to stagger low health stragglers. At the time when the game was either roll or get rolled everyout said that the match maker was broken but the devs said they had stats to show that even when the MMR rating of both teams was minimal or non-existant they were sitll seering this dramatic steamroll situations. So several seasons later, here we are with larger hit boxes, more health, and healing passives.
Yeah this is why the design of paladins was so cool and novel. You had stuff like damage reduction, healing reduction, CC reduction, reload speed increase. But you had to BUY and CHOOSE these things. In overwatch there's literally no thought or effort by the player for these things
Bobby K. was scum. I bet that blizzard has a crazy NDA that forced everyone into silence. A NDA that makes fake smiles. A NDA that means when mistakes are made we go full steam ahead. I think that NDA is ruining this game. Developers that can't talk to their community openly about their game should simply not be sustainable. The legal blockades stopping team 4 from talking about 6v6 and their game is what is making people give up on Overwatch.
6v6 people are so delusional they think NDAs are preventing devs from talking about 6v6 when they don't even consider it because they don't fucking care. 6v6 is your new flavor of the month because you've ran out of other things to bitch about. No tangible amount of people are leaving the game over 5v5.
A balance idea I had for hanzo is what if his arrows did a little bit of bleed damage on top of the base damage. That way he could still technically 1 shot but it would give whoever was shot a second to potentially save themself
They'd have to lower his current headshot damage then because with 10 hp left there is barely any window to save yourself. I'd also imagine the tick rate for the bleed would be a nightmare to get just right.
Why not replace storm arrow with a piercing effect? His ult already pierces walls I think it would be nice to see his niche become a piercing hero. Nothing crazy, give him only two storm arrow charges that can go through at least one wall. That way you can sonar arrow and then eliminate an enemy who thinks they are safe behind a wall. Idk seems like that would make him pretty unique to the rest of the roster. Again, his arrows would only go through one wall so it wont be extremely broken.
This is shit because the people who complained about one shot already suffered from skill issue. People will still complain about it because it one shots. That, are it’ll be stupid easy to heal that damage
I think venture ult is a bit wonky. The ult lasts too long imo. I think the ult should do 150 per charge and have 3 charges. This would nerf the overall damage but the burst potential is better.
It's not fun to play support. It feels more like Tank than ever where you have two choices, but they both suck -- do damage or keeping your teammates alive. If you choose damage it's very character dependent and TTK usually isn't enough to keep yourself alive. If you choose to heal, it's never enough and almost pointless. The DPS passive just trashed what made support really enjoyable -- saving your team. Every role feels bad though, because they finally got 5v5 pretty much perfect where every role feels like they do nothing while doing something. I think all of this would be better if we had another tank to spread out the damage, healing, blame, etc.
literally lmfao i just can’t take him serious at all. he’s clearly just doing it for engagement, sym ain’t even that annoying 😭😭 she literally does nothing and it’s unfair to want a hero to stay bad just because you personally dislike them
Just throwing my idea out there but what if Hanzo had three arrows he could shoot. A heavy metal arrow that could one shot squishy characters, the storm arrows, and a lightweight wooden arrows that would work like Io from Paladins. Fast and quick but would do less damage so that you could do more consistent damage at the cost of not being able to instakill.
The fact that everyone but Spilo just wants Symmetra to suffer really undermines their own credibility and just shows their own bias in a hero based game where bias only serves to hold the game back. These people and their opinions should not be held up on a pedestal and as an end all be all. None of these people even play her and echo the communities sentiments about Symmetra that they perpetuate. No character should ever be niche. Why even have the character at all and have her be selectable on any map? It's just batshit insane that they can't look past their own opinions or feelings and have an objective perspective. The fact she's in her terrible state is because of content creators like these always spouting their hatred for her and then they rip on her more for being bad? The lack of self awareness and their own contributions to Symmetras treatment by the studio and the community is mind blowing to me. They don't like a character and want her to be bad for no other reason than that. In any other setting, this would be unacceptable. 🤢
It’s cause she isn’t really worth to effort to rework properly just for her to be Junkrat 3.0 spamming the orbs down a choke even if the hitbox was much smaller.
Yeah imagine in physical sports someone says, oh these kind of players/races should stay niche and never get any resources to compete, their career could be completely over and cancelled. The fact that it is not treated as such in gaming is baffling. If you want the industry to become really Professional, you should uphold the same values and methodologies as other industry.
"I hate playing and seeing the same four heroes every game! I see the same four heroes every game, I have for weeks!" "Play something else?" "No! I can't take the chance I might lose!" "Maybe we can make more of the heroes that strong?" "No! Only certain heroes should be strong! Certain heroes should never be strong!" *Overwatch devs throw up hands*
If they keep making moiras and brigs and orisas strong, yea, game doesnt feel better than it would be with the same heroes being picked, i.e. when those are the classic kr dive with lucio zen winston dva tracer genii So instead making brig a must pick or bap orisa sigma, which is worse, you could try and make it be rein zarya ana zen/mercy and dps depending on the map Which would achieve both variety (which is at its best when the whole composition is map-dependent) and would result in not having the heroes who shouldnt be must-picks being exactly that. Sure, throw picks would still exist, especially on some maps that dont favor certain heroes, but its still more variety and and more skill expression instead of the "i win because I know how to pick a counter", thus more fun.
@@YTHandlesWereAMistake If you want more map dependency, then you should want less Tracers and more Symmetras. Less Sojourns and more Reapers. The community doesn't want that, and yells every time that happens. What they want is less heroes, less choice, more "turn off my brain and just aim" heroes.
@@KingOfNebbishes i have to disagree, I dont think that example is appropriate and I don't think people would cry about variety when it's not forced because of counter-swaps like tank are nowadays. Personally: My favorite time to play the game was when I had to flex 3 roles in order to finally reach gm. Back to back matches I had played: orisa, zarya, lucio, zen, widow, hanzo, genji, soldier, hog, zen. All depending on our team comps, map, part of the map, enemy team como, and it was like a whole art of figuring out how to help these people win being able to flex so much when others are not. From my experience (and I should clarify, I started properly following pros when dive was about to end, and got masters in s10 of ow1), reaper has basically never been good in high rank lobbies apart from when they used winston dva lucio moira reaper.. doom? Comp for like a month and that was decent variety for some time. I also personally loved watching the guy known as reaper get top10 one-tricking him even when he was very, very bad. He did that by doing unexpected stuff. And honestly, I do want reaper to be good again, but not a must-pick. Maybe there were a few more mini-metas when he could be played, again with doom or sombra, on control center, soon after goats, but I dont remember anyone crying about him, and I was the one playing him in those amateur scrims. However Sym is very boring to play a lot of the time because the metas that favored her went like orisa sigma bastion sym bap zen/brig and that is no fun because you have up to 4 shields and only thing you do as a dps is hold LMB. Otherwise yes she is getting picked and there are sym enjoyers and she should stay that way, niche but sometimes viable. I had enough time played on both of them in those metas, which thankfully werent too long in time-span, and that was not fun, except a strat we had on lunar colony with tp from highground to point and back, whole squad. Got a bunch of great upsets with diamond folks in my team helping beat 3.8-4.2k average teams, but overall I'm glad that lasted for a short time. (Dont get me started on the old versions of sym sith shield gen, troll tp and mini-shield, and auto aim - that was even worse in terms of skill expression bevause its nearly free value for a long time at which point she becomes a throwpick. Very lopsided and will get hated by the all the playerbase for opposite reasons - too good in low ranks, too bad in higher)
because some heroes are annoying to play against. dive meta is dynamic, choosing whether to peel or trade backlines adds some level of complexity to the game. mauga meta was awful hog meta is always annoying because there's a chance your team just gets rolled by him also in lower ranks reaper and sym and bastion (v easy to get value out of) run the lobby. it's why the reaper rework is taking forever, because just buffing his numbers will screw up bronze-gold lobbies. characters that have very high skill ceilings like echo or doom are amazing in the right hands, and buffing them will make them hard meta in high elo games. it's not just "being a good character" you have to take in matchups and synergies into to account. no one wants to play against one taps, so hanzo, widow or soj and ashe with dmg boost won't be something they bring back buff lucio, for example, and some tanks just benefit from that more than others. bringing back 6v6 makes this balancing act so much harder; it's not happening.
Hanzo should have flaming arrows that apply the burn debuff for 15dmg over 2 seconds or something so that way if you headshot someone and there’s not an immediate reaction from supports - you still get your “one shot”
This would work in CoD. Not in a game like Overwatch where there’s tanks and healers. Damage over time still won’t kill most targets you headshot. It only guarantees luck shots instead of hard to hit shots on people paying attention. I still will give props because this gives the assassin playstyle still possible
For Cassidy, they should remove the Hinder and Slow from Nade but buff the damage, cooldown, travel speed, time before detonation, etc. So that it's still viable and can still be used on characters like Reaper and Tracer without them just Recalling or Wraithing out of it before it does the damage. To prevent Mag Nade from traveling too far, I think it's best if it just explodes after traveling a certain distance.
That’s basically what the nade was before they made it magnetic grenade. And nobody like a heat seeking damage missile. It was called the predator missile.
@@ecclecticsayonce5131 DPS & Supports should not have any hard CC. Even though "Hinder" is not hard CC, it feels awful to play against and a lot of players hate it even more than being stunned, often citing that is lasts longer than stuns do. Like Flash Bang lasted 0.75 seconds, whereas Hinder lasts 1.2 seconds. Ana still needs Sleep Dart reworked into a non-hard CC Dart, Mei needs her ult to just be slow + damage, no freeze stun, etc... Cassidy Flash Bang should NEVER come back; chain-CC constantly hitting the Tanks in the front-line and people getting stunned out of ults often severely hurt Tank population numbers and even overall player numbers in OW1.
hinder should still exist, but lower the dmg to 35 (flashbang was 25, add 10 to compensate for health changes) and make it explode after traveling 10 meters instead of seeking forever. that would make it work closer to old flashbang.
shooting out a idea for widow. when you scope in it'll show the enemy team a laser and to let them know your sight line and the color of the line will depend on what's your charge at. other thing to prevent blinding people is to have the line to fade away to barely able to see when close to it or entirely fades away.
Sym having 180 dps is fine, id say it should even be 195 or higher. 180 dps isnt even that big of a threat anymore with increased health pools, Zarya also has more damage.
So cooking for hanzo, my take for fixing him is similar to spilo's junk idea, give his fully charge shots bounce like storm arrow, change storm arrow to shoot only 2 arrows at the same time but they are aimed in 2 directions and you can change vertical or horizontal similar to mie's wall before you place it and they bounce 4-6 times
03:26:00 I think the best way you could change Widowmaker in the current game format while also getting rid of a lot of her one shot potential is to make her full charge headshot deal 250 HP up to a max range of 30-35 meters, so she needs to be close to being within reach of the effective range of most squishies. However, landing a headshot of 70% charge or more will debuff the target with a “Broken” status effect, inceasing the damage taken from all sources by 20% for 2 seconds. Thoughts?
I’d love to see a change to Hanzo where after he gets a kill, he gets a damage buff to primary fire for a duration and has the capability to one shot headshot during that time. Other ideas I’ve had are having a “perfect shot” mechanic where you release right as you fully draw the arrow and it’ll be have one shot damage, or making the sonar arrow have increased damage so that the one shot is on a cooldown.
Yeah, like in 1v1's in OW1 they were out soloing tanks lol. Let's be honest, if you 1v1 a tank, you've messed up. They want to play all aim no brain style and get mad when they get outplayed.
@@KingOfNebbishesThat too, but this group leaned too far into the OW1 nostalgia for me lol back in OW1 you could 1v1 tanks with Brig and come out on top every time. And we wonder why tank players left in droves? Lol i can’t
For widow perhaps they could segment the damage main fire does, so her shots could do like 60% of the current damage up front and then tick 4 times for 10% each over 2 seconds or so. Call it poison bullets, widows kiss or whatever. You remove the instant one shot wyle keeping her overall damage potential, and provide some slight counterplay for supports. She stays just as effective against flankers and people out of position, but is less server admin vs decent teams.
Yeah thats how I see most games go with an oppressive widow, everyone's trying to take shots to make her angles meaningless and force a swap. Or ignore her and lose every teamfight one pick at a time.
That would make her awful. All she has is her one shot. All they need to do is increase the time it takes to charge or make it take more ammo to max out, so her downtime is abusable.
@thiefpotato2759 I don't think it would be that bad, you could do the same thing for hanzo and give him his one shot back in the same way, just call it bleed dmg. As an alternative to instant one shot I think that's a fair compromise. They'll probably never change her though.
Samito wanted to clarify that he's not 100% on the stats he cited from Overbuff about the tank stats, since he thinks they actually show the pick rates of the heroes, as opposed to the rates of people queueing the role.
This episode was recorded on 14th June 2024. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not let SVB know on his stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ )
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Statement about Sam is 100% Accurate. Keep in mind, Overwatch Reddit AMA Confirmed that Overbuff was pretty accurate. Could be less, could be more, but the number is still quite close, and speaks volumes.
It's probably true. I've grinded tanks since ow1 S2 it's always been my main role and I tried grinding through mauga Orisa meta etc but I finally stopped playing it. It's just not enjoyable especially in high rank games where certain comps will force you to have to play certain tanks that aren't fun it's not worth the time anymore. Currently playing dps
@@o0_VanYsH_0o This isn't true. Overbuff has had an outage since venture was added. The results are similar when overbuff is working, but it currently isn't.
@@o0_VanYsH_0o > Overwatch Reddit AMA Confirmed that Overbuff was pretty accurate
Remember that the exact quote specified when it comes to win rates. The pick rate data is skewed and not an accurate representation of how many people are playing the role.
If it's still not clear, for an Overwatch role queue game to happen, it must have 1 tank, 2 dps and 2 support. So unless you're using games where role queue doesn't exist, that's the only way you end up with role pick rates that are different to 20%/40%/40%.
This is why the comment above mentions the rates of people queueing the role, since that data would actually tell us something, but sadly that data is not something we can collect.
@@o0_VanYsH_0o Samito's argument doesn't make sense when you boil it down, though. Tanks are powerful now and feel terrible; there aren't enough tank players and there were even less tank players in 6v6, hence the bribing. His solution is to *make tanks weaker* and add another one to team comps and mystically people who didn't play tank before will suddenly flock to playing tank again?
Make it make sense. It doesn't. It's just rose colored glasses on a game he raged about back then and refuses to admit just how much he hated that too.
The sam and spilo duo is S Tier
Add flats in and its the perfect trio
Sam, Spilo, and Flats are the *only* content creators I’ve seen on here consistently willing to talk about Overwatch as a game in an honest fashion.
Even when the latter two continue to hinge their reputations upon _such an idiotic and self-sabotaging decision as 5v5 was,_ at least I can assume that they (somehow?) actually believe what they’re saying to be true and aren’t just lying to save face with the community.
@@vopcracker3193 spilo and flats aint on team 5v5 tho. Flats tries to stay neutral and Spilo thinks that either is fine.
@@suffishes1454spilo said that 6v6 is more convenient and a lot easier to balance in his stream with samito. He just says he knows they won’t go back to it and he wants to try to fix 5v5 as much as he can
@@abdx8752 which is not only based on a false premise (Spilo mentioned them going back on “Experimental” modes in Overwatch 2), but the _overall_ assumption that “5v5 is fixable with better design in Overwatch” has been proven time and time again to be inherently false, with mutiple core changes to gameplay and several new heroes & gamemodes over two years; Constant change with new content would be the norm in 5v5 or 6v6, yet only one distinctly forces bad character design, lazy “balance” changes, and constant tweaking of the core mechanics of Overwatch itself, only for the game loop to be _functional at best._
Seeing Jay3 and Sam in the same vid is such a good throwback, genuinely the best ow streamer rivalry ever
This podcast was very insightful and much thanks to Samito for the shoutout.
Always love hearing your thoughts on the game Abby keep pushing would be awesome to see you on the pod. Especially talking on Genji.
@@BeastmanRage88 Hopefully one day, I love talking about OW in general! :D
We love you Abby! Your Microsoft vid was both heartbreaking but also 100% what a lot of us are feeling right now. God is it so frustrating to see where OW is treated by the gaming scene currently, considering where it could have and very arguably should have been.
Kajor needs to jump in too
@@alanwiseman3235Kajor gets in his feelings like a woman though (not being sexier or anything!). He just gets very emotional when there’s push back and it doesn’t feel like he’s your average dude.
Imagine hawk, Iron, samito and spilo together on a pod. It would shatter the fabric of reality, dev heads would explode
That’s the ultimate squad. I’ve enjoyed ChipSa’s recent videos/takes too. He’s based.
Yeah let’s not invite Iron. He may have good points but he sounds like a petulant child any time he speaks.
Hawk's been on the pod before. He's incoherent af.
They poking Sam so hard to rant about 6v6 haha
Spilo is back with more good takes?! Yes! 🙌
"it can get to 3" looks at 3 1/2 hr runtime LOLOLOLOL
Can we get a "the great one-trick debate" and include some of the one-trick players, like Arrge, Kenzo, SewerRat/Vulture, etc,? They are being excluded from these conversations and they shouldnt. I think the usual cast on this show play at a very mid to wide cast of heroes which does not represent a lot of the player base that plays the game because of ONE hero.
Yes, they should absolutely get Arrge on. Even when his question was answered by the devs on reddit his questions were completely skipped by everyone.
yes, whenever they discuss something specific about heroes, they should have a specialist.
hanzo and junkrat specialist didn't even had a chance to defend themselves.
also, they assume that some heroes are doing pretty bad or are simply trash when it isn't true for all ranks. reaper and symm are great examples of this, they still perform good enough on metal. and we all know the balance team look at the big picture, not only top players.
@@sakitoshi samito is a good hanzo player so he kinda represents the hanzo community. I agree though, the bash on junkrat was pretty unfair with no one there to defend the character. Characters like reaper and symm though, not sure if they are doing well even in the metal ranks. Their overbuff stats look pretty rough. I'd say widowmaker fits what you are describing better where she is absolutely dominating in the top and not that good at the bottom.
I was screaming for that when they talked about Sombra.
Sombra might be fine atm, but she's *very* different from how she was initially. Adding more burst but removing the translocator had a much bigger effect than non-Sombra players realize. I think most would much rather have kept the old translocator, but have a non-perma invisibility. The best suggestion I've seen is that her invis is based on movement; she goes invis, and a bar drains as she moves. When it runs out she turns visible, but if she *doesn't* move, she can stay invisible.
Think about what that'd do. It'd create "Sombra spots" that Sombra players would consider optimal to hide and wait for someone to approach, and these spots have to change when the community realize, and then Sombra players will have to find new spots. This would literally replicate the IT security vs hackers arms race.
This prevents her from spawncamping efficiently, emote spamming people and just generally being annoying. Instead her engages relies on Sombra getting something out of it: If she doesn't, she uses translocator to escape and now has both abilities on cooldown - if someone correctly identifies where her escape was, you've made Sombra a sitting duck, completely without abilities. And while she waits for cooldowns, the enemy team has earned a numbers advantage.
Current Sombra is fine, but she's not Sombra anymore. She's a risktaking assassin, which doesn't even apply to her lore or presentation either.
i love this idea
Spilo should replace freedo as main guest for Group Up Pod in my opinion
Freedo should go back to being depressed on his own, and stop using his obvious illness as an excuse to belittle the people that fund his livelihood with condescending behavior.
PLEASE
Yes please
Yes please. Spilos takes are fire and freedo says a load of nothing.
Absolutely. Spilo brings so much nuance to these discussions. Freedo just spends 2 hours talking in circles
hearing salt in the background was oddly wholesome
Samito not mentioning 6v6 challenge: Impos.... wait! He DIDN'T fire first? Holy shit!
This is now the Great 6v6 Podcast. You cannot avoid it.
It will always be as long as 5v5 continues to exist.
This comment had me rolling on my ass
LMFAO DUDE IT MADE ME SO HAPPY WHEN DEKU FUCKING MENTIONED 5V5 AND SAID IT'S BAD I LOVE THIS COMMUNITY SOMETIMES MAN and ur comment too lmao
I need the great hitbox and health pool changes debate
Everyone knows that those changes are bad 😭, we need to revert that
@@le_m4cho965 devs came out and said they buffed everything because they were to scared of the backlash if they nerfed everything
Agree. These videos are getting kinda boring lately.
@@DRUKENHOBOwe actually need more nerfs , need skill to come back , it’s an issue when plat players can make gm players switch off tank
Seeing SPILO AGAIN!?!?!?!?!?!?! This is gonna be a good one. Spilo with the concise and thoughtful unbiased opinions. THANK YOU, SPILO.
Bro Spilo is fantastic
True, I like spill and samito together to be honest. Seems like he brings sams more chill side out
@@toons4934 I love when Spilo is on, man, he brings so much to the discussion with extremely well thought out points and solutions for characters...his whole youtube channel is the same way. Absolutely love the guy. ALWAYS great to see him on and him and Samito are so great together, too, I agree!
Imagine if Zarya's charge went up even if you shoot her with no bubble on, imagine if doom's punch got charged if he isnt blocking? Thats Soujorn for you. She gets rewarded for interacting with you, but you have 0 counterplay or agency in this process.
That's actually an amazing comparison... 🤔
@@Adventist1997 Not a good comparison, Zarya and doom rely on external damage for their utility whereas Sojourn relies on her own damage output for her utility. I understand the point trying to be made but that comparison isn't good.
@@vigour6786
1. RMB is not utility, in Overwatch by utility players mean abilities that help the team or themselves besides dealing damage or healing, like sleep, suzu, magnetic grenade, etc.
2. I even summarized the point by the end for people like you -
interaction with 0 counterplay or agency, and examples reflect that statement. External or not, it's about how some heroes can be played around and some cannot. The same way roadhog's vape is these days, you can't do anything about him vaping unless you have ana, even if you stun him, he will continue 1 sec later, because its on the meter now, his ult is uninterruptible too in OW2. Boring design, 0 risk 100% reward.
Such a terrible comparison lol
@@vigour6786 But that's not the point. Reacting to damage has counterplay. You just don't shoot Zarya and Doom. You can't counter someone shooting because everyone will always be shooting.
I'm about at the boycott/unistal stage... tank main for 7 years and I just can't do it anymore.
Bring back 6v6
Your are JUST now getting there? Who hurt you? You deserve better brother!
We've been getting beat down for too long, there's only so much you can tank emotionally.
I only log on to quick play once in a while now. My wife and I use to duo tank back in ow1 in ranked. It was great. Man I hate 5v5.
I just started queueing DPS. It's fun to learn new heroes and especially since every game doesn't feel like I'm in an active warzone desperately trying to hold on for dear life.
As a tank main I just play open queue, it effectively boycotts role q 5v5 while letting me play more casual modes
Even when Sam holds back from the topic, the debate always comes back to 6v6
Hmmmmmm
It's crazy, it's almost like 6v6 was in people's mind since the beginning and not a "trend" that Samito started. Almost like the format is one of the core issues of the game that need to be addressed 🤔 but somehow it's Sam who's spreading "negativity" by being the "Ben Shapiro of OW". 🤔
It is funny, because as these conversations go on further talking about the different problems in the game. The one reoccuring theme is 6v6. And as much as they say they should try talking about other things (even Samito trying to stay away from it) it is inevitable, because it is the CRUX of the issue. Tank suffers from being hard focused, DPS suffer from not being able to duel tanks and supports suffer from the DPS passive which was introduced to reduce their insane healing. And what is the solution? 6v6. Tank has a teammate to split pressure (and more importantly enemy cooldowns) and can also contest multiple areas of the map at the same time. DPS can duel tanks that misplay because their health is lower and cooldowns are weaker. And supports dont have to deal with the DPS passive (all general role passives should be removed perhaps excluding the passive heal) AND healing wont be as strong because there are 2 tanks to split the healing resources and cooldowns. It is so obundantly clear.
This deserves to be top comment
Dude, DPS are capable of dueling supports just not 2 at the same time where they need to use all four abilities to keep themselves alive.
Especially in comparison to the duel state before the DPS passive.
6v6 is always going to run into the issue of queue times no matter what so that’s a done deal right there :P
@@why8642no it isnt... if the game is balanced well and its fun q times will be fine. The q time gaslight is dead. Getting 12 minute dps qs in comp in masters is insane.
@@DriplessShrimp Baseline 6v6 tanking wasn’t fun, even before role queue. Same problem of exploding, but you’d sprinkle in a lot of CC spam.
So no, it was fundamentally a bogged down experience that drove players away. It just became more obvious when they added role queue and people were actively forced to select tank.
I like playing Tank more now than I ever did in that rumble in the jungle, flung across the map 7 times while I don’t get to press a single button format you prefer.
The endless cope of “just balance 6v6 better, then people would have loved it” is based on nothing but a self affirming cycle to make yourself feel better about the “terrible” state of the game. It’s just so tiresome.
12 min queue times for masters DPS? Must have missed it lmao, I don’t get those.
Unless you’re talking about OW1 queue times? I didn’t play DPS in diamond 6v6 because of the consistent long queue times, it was just faster to play tank.
Think the most I’ve waited in OW2 was a 7min queue, queueing with a a duo who was diamond and also queued DPS, we’re talking max range SR diff.
When are you queuing to get a 12min queue? At 4AM?
@@why8642 Youre in the minority though, even if Overbuff Stats are not accurate its very very clear the % of Tank palyers is much lower than in OW1
And no even in 2016 Tanking was more fun because people didnt know better and there actually wasnt that much CC on release, the worst thing was Cass Flash, Hog Hook or Mei Freeze the other things were ults
The biggest CC offenders (Sombra Hack, Doomfist whole Kit, Ball Knockbacks or Knockups, Orisa Pull, Brig Bash) all were DLC Heroes, the Original Cast actually didnt have that much CC and all of those things got changed and could have also been changed in 6v6. There also werent any "Get out of jail for free" heroes like Kiriko, Moira, Weaver or Bap which allowed tanks to make more plays
You dont need a lot of CC against Duo Tanks, but what duo tanking does is give you more freedom of Picking Heroes and on how you want to play, sure there will sometimes be a feeding off-tank, but the same thing can happen in 5v5
THE SALT COMMENT FROM DEKU HAD ME ROLLING
i worry about that man's blood pressure.
I didn’t realize the 5v5/6v6 debate was a blocked topic for the devs to discuss with creators. What a cowardly policy. (To be clear, I don’t necessarily blame the devs themselves-like Spilo said, it may well be a corporate decision)
No freedo thank fuck
💀💀💀
Bro I love when he gets all emotional and defensive and takes over the whole conversation on his rants about his dogshit opinions.
@@toons4934 I’m surprised he even has friends in this community
hey a podcast where everyone knows wtf they are talking about and no ones annoying. LETS GO
I think a hanzo flame arrow like ash and bind it to change weapons button or a arrow that makes a floor puddle and have to hit it with flame arrow for space denial that ignites the floor use it as your storm arrow u get one oil arrow a flame arrow or 2 of each so it's a combo thing and there is no time limit on storm. I think combining with sonic arrow helps you with where to deny space. Maybe make oil slow when ignited helps with mobility. Makes the ultimate more useful.
I'm just glad tank players are slowing down. I love tank, its my second favorite role and I've questioned maining it over and over in the lifetime of this game. But blizzard needs to see the role is not okay (in this format imo but who could say why for sure)
Deku: Master's 1, not that good.
Me: Dies inside, hard stuck quickplay :S
You ain't sold your soul to a casual game that they bolted a competitive scene onto? Kudos!
@@KingOfNebbishes my parents belittle me, don't need kids on the Internet doing the same 😁, and if you aren't communicating in comp I'm shitting on somebody else's experience ya know?
@@cheeseblast There's pings. There's nothing a competitive player who isn't directly being paid by you to coach needs to say to you in a game that they can't ping.
@@KingOfNebbishes Deff wasnt aware the ping system was the involved, thank you sincerely for that. No /s
People rarely use the ping system in my experience bilut im only diamond 2 tank so who knows
The junkrat slander is crazy 😭
And deserved lmaoooooo
@@ecclecticsayonce5131 hitscan players when they have to think about their positioning
@@ecclecticsayonce5131
^
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This dude is average hitscan player that starts to complain if he'll die from anything that isn't point-and-click adventure hero like widow or ashe.
@@JnBl320 nah just rat
What slander? They just spat facts. He is a horribily designed hero at base and is unfun when he is good or bad. Overwatch is not fun when junkrat is played. Overwatch is about postioning team fights, cool down mangament. No brainless spam with no skill slpash damage and unavoidable mine damage. He is clunky, slow, no dyanimcs, or interesting abilites. Trap is one of the wrost abilites I've ever seen in a game. He basically has one ability. This is not a binary world. We can hate junkrat and widow at the same time both heros are horibble.
Ever single episode spilo is on is a banger
Based queen Deku unafraid to admit Ow1 was superior
because of her specific playstyle which is hide and hit headshots. for her OW1 is basically Kovaaks. ZZzzzzz. No one wants Widow getting 5ks. Delete snipers tbh.
@@retrorevival1widow is better in ow2 then ow1 so ur statement doesn’t make sense
@@DragneelXx tell me how. with hero damage fall off nerf in OW2 and the amount of sustain, burst healing, larger health pools etc. Widow is not better in OW2. The only time Widow is good is in your silver games where your team are bunny hopping around in the open shouting SHOOT ME WIDOW!, PICK ME!
@@retrorevival1 widow can one shot everyone in the game now and before the health changes the only person she can’t one shot is tanks and she couldn’t do that in ow1 either tell me ur plat without telling me ur plat widow has always good in higher ranks then lower ranks because people have bad aim the higher u go the better widow is because they can actually hit heads and because now there’s one less tank to block the widow/dive it means she had less pressure on her all game they literally nerfed widows effective rage for the one shot because of how dominant she was in higher ranks and now because of the higher health pools she has to charge a little more but barely the only time widow isn’t good is when dive is meta plz shut ur mouth if u don’t know what ur talking about cuz it just makes u look stupid there’s no way u honestly think widow is better in silver than masters+ u mean the rank where Ana’s struggle to hit a tank stand 2ft in front of them the rank where people it 1/3 of there shots because the can’t aim and u think widow a character who’s only useful if u hit headshots is better in a rank where people can’t hit shots then in ranks where people can???? Yea ok buddy
@@retrorevival1 plz stop talking
Sam and Spilo 🤩
Overwatch 1 we miss you
Who is we😭⁉️ i actually prefer ow2
@@kayanonoclearly not a tank player.
@@SBBValianT i am actually. I play every role alot
@@kayanonosame here, Tank is fun, the game is fun
Always remember that happy people have less of a need to express their happiness online. They'd rather spend their time having fun by playing the game itself, you know
@@StriderYGO”the game is fun” do you play less then 2 hours a day or are you braindead?
I love how excited Samito gets talking about OW, it def helps keep the discussion fun!!
I love these marathons
The longer, the better
Might be one of the most funny podcasts yet
Hot Take: Widow shouldn’t be nerfed until they address immortality abilities and perma heal turrets. Then you can gut her ass cause you can actually kill shit at that point.
You see, the podcast feels better to listen to when Freedo is not there.
I’m just going to say it: Freedo should try to find another near-death experience to boost his confidence, like he mentioned in his 6v6 video. I really dislike how he weaponized his personal issues at the end of that one, especially after being so condescending every other time he was on camera. I have zero respect for that behavior from him.
Um what im trying to say (1 hour later) yeah anyways that was my opinion that contradicts itself
Me when I love my echo chamber
@@why8642Me when I have no life and reply to every comment on the video
@@vopcracker3193bro I hated that he kept his little sniffling shit in the end so we’d feel bad for him. I hate when people do that shit.
I feel like they should add aim punch to widow when she is scoped. Like in tf2 you could shoot at the sniper across the map as a scout to throw off his aim.
I mean, they're giving Cass his fucking flashbang back, so fuck it, pull the goddamn trigger, make it 6v6 again. It won't fix the problem and queue times will tank even harder, but its the only solution, I guess. Back to a 500 HP, paper thin Rein, I guess.
To me, the worst part about DPS is playing against supports that effortlessly erase your value. rez, life weaver pull, suzu, lamp, burst healing. Super frustrating
I mean, the point of support is to reduce pressure...
@@zerot216 reduce pressure = / = erase value
@@TrevIEnt is almost as if healing is the reverse of damage...
@@sakitoshi It shouldn't reverse it, it should mitigate it (that's not going to mention the invulns on 3 of the abilities mentioned), that's the issue. Mitigation abilities like Defense Matrix should "reverse damage" so to speak.
But you know its tanks have the ability to mitigate damage, they have that ability to reduce that damage intake with either shields or self-healing or maybe their own form of DR.
Supports heal away that damage taken.
Spilo was the only one some what smart with Sym and not being biased. So glad none of these people have control of the balance.
Fr, it’s crazy how toxic some of steamers r. They need spilo on more podcasts like these.
Samito would do pretty well at balancing many of the heroes. Deku and Jay either don't bring a lot of ideas or are a bit biased. I guess Jay is aware of it and laughed about it while not being full of himself (hi Freedo) so that's alright, he seems like a good guy. But Spilo is for sure the one with the better takes on hero design and balance.
The smoothbrain takes on Sym from everyone except Spilo... sigh. "She's weak and hard to use but I hate her so keep her bad" and they go on to like defend Widow later on, an *actual* problematic hero. BFFR
Ironic coming from you.
You're shameless typing that comment while having a sym pfp
@@beanjuice6012 is this the best comeback you have?
@@beanjuice6012no need to be shameless, he doesnt need to be afraid of anyone like you loser lol
I mean, don't blame them for having that sentiment against Sym. OTPs are the bane of a lot of people. Sym herself can be quiet annoying as well even if she's objectively garbage. Either way, they should've tried to come up with something to make her better and healthier instead of just bashing her.
This guests cast was goated! some contrast in the opinions, no weird takes, solid podcast all around. Also really liking the 4 guests format!
Looks like we're finally ready to start admitting they downgraded the game, tide is turning.
Overwatch 2 cured my Overwatch addiction. Im so tired of ow2.
The only reason i still play is because of hope that it will return to being fun. Its genuinely so miserable, and im fully burnt out atp.
Im tired of being let down by lazy, incompetent and stubborn developers.
To be fair up until recently the devs had their hands tied + several people who worked on the game were layed off last year. However I have lost all hope especially after they announced pve was cancelled for months but they kept quiet, as well as refusing to address the 6v6 conversation.
@@Atlacattlol still blaming Bobby? C mon bro Bobby didn’t make the new aid heroes nor the horrible balance
Lmao
“Im not addicted, but I still play”
Yeah, ok whatever you say pal 👍
@@Atlacatt I doubt the 5v5 decision was Bobby Koticks or higher ups at activision, i do agree with the layoffs though, its very noticeable how the Quality in Skins dropped or that they have less people working on the game
But idk, the game isnt dying but it isnt really growing that much either, they need something big to make people play but they just dont have it (I for one would rebrand to just "Overwatch" and reblance for 6v6 and announce it at a big event)
Same. If OW2 was 6v6, I wouldn’t be typing this comment right now, I would be playing OW2.
But it’s more fun to reply to TH-cam comments than play OW2 currently.
For the entirety of Mirrorwatch arcade mode Tank had the highest queue times, most I've seen peaking 20 minutes. Possibly the only time I had fun playing tank in months.
Is this podcast not 100% better without freedo over taking the conversation and being super defensive? Seems a lot smoother without freedo gunking it up.
I don't think that the length of playtime has a huge effect. I've only been playing since the beginning of Overwatch 2 and I have felt frustrated or bored with the game since season 8, playing consistently less and less over time.
I never played 6v6, but I really do believe that it is the only solution to the fundamental problems of Overwatch 2. I really hope they add it as an arcade mode or a QP hacked.
Before even watching this I have to say after 8 years as tank main, into tank and support flex, to then doing hours and hours of DPS QP to really hone in, I now am a DPS main. I win 80% of my comp matches in metal ranks and really feel like I’m the deciding factor the majority of the time.
And I say that to speak to the role of DPS deciding the match, I really felt powerless as tank. And support was too reliant on others. DPS is simple. They die and you win. I love it.
about phara.
i've been commenting for some time that she is overtuned, her fire rate and projectile speed specifically.
they have increased her fire rate and projectile speed 2 times already, there is little to no pause to aim and shoot at her to take her down, you are guaranteed to take a rocket.
just ad strafe lul
@@driftingbout297 you do know that the rockets have splash dmg
@@DRUKENHOBO u do know that splash dmg doesn't do much right?
@@DRUKENHOBO 20 to 84
that's what your complaining about it's very fair
@@driftingbout297 i just had a game on phara and didn't die the whole time, even could barrage uninterrupted. i'm not a phara player. i usually play support.
now tell me that phara isn't overtuned when someone that doesn't play phara can dominate.
I don’t get why the length of the dps passive isn’t based on the amount of damage done so that characters like widow, junk rat, and Hanzo would actually benefit from it
just wanted to voice that i think samito+spilo is a good conversational duo, and i wouldnt be opposed to seeing either and both on more often
When things get bad, as the game is now, people become unafraid to say what they really think.
“I hate Junkrat, whenever Junkrat is unplayable I’m happy.”
“I think every character should be playable 🥺”
As a Junkrat connoisseur, I’m offended
Absolutely cooking on the Sojourn talk, 100% agree
Edit: i'd love if they swapped bap's and soldier's healing abilities, it just makes more sense to me. (Old bap regen, before the baseline 50 and double on critical health)
I really loved 6v6 or at least 2 tanks. Please bring the magic back to overwatch
5v5 should’ve made it so that we don’t need role q
It’s called “Role Queue” but it’s Role Lock really, *the real Role Queue* would *possibly* have the best version between Open Queue and Rock Lock but that depends on the variations of Role Queue that we may and may not think of and those we can or can’t realise as well.
Svb my brother PLEASE do not let salt get that rein discussion lol
Funny how DPS and Tank have a similar mindset of generalist role passives are too "feast or famine" and were at a point that for the sake of keeping the game fresh, 6v6 at least happens for a game mode to test the balance and feedback. A note to Blizzard being a dull ult, could use her Avalanche ult from HotS; ball goes out grabbing heroes in its path, on breaking (max distance or terrain) it deals damage and stun (in OW probably either slow or hinder) with the duration based on the number of heroes it grabbed.
Wait hold on they might have realized this problem with the Quickplay Hacked event coming in season 11
Not even 16 minutes and 5v5 was brought lol 😂
Still, great podcast and great hosts
Something they missed on hanzo and genji is wallclimb. This ability is still so buggy and inconsistent on every map. We need to be able to climb up an awning or a slightly round cosmetic object next to the wall. Shit pisses me off and kills me often
I detected no bias in this debate and this statement has no sarcasm. Thank god Spilo was there.
Thank God Freedo wasn't there...
how could you possibly say there's no bias in this debate.. i think you just mean it was a reasonable discussion
Pharah gets good for a week and everybody cries - Hitscan is the ONLY dps in the game for 2 years and everythings fine
I am a Flex DPS player and i hate when Pharah is good because she makes 90% of other flex DPS heroes (besides Echo) unplayable.
Imagine coming home from school or hard day at work and you want to play some Genji but the enemy just goes rage-Pharah after 1 teamfight. Pharah should never be good
@@TSGC16honestly neither should genji that rat is annoying
OW 2 devs doubling down every season on hit scan DPS turned OW into a COD clone. If I want a hit scan FPS there's 100s to choose from. I was there from OW launch. I finally quit this season.
You quit the season they added a non hitscan DPS?
Dive has been solidly in the Meta for a majority of OW2’s lifespan.
@@s--bafter 10 seasons of coddling hitscan with a virtual free blowjob every kill, yes
A CoD clone is crazy lol so many Reinhardts in CoD these days
@@majesticm4808 riot shield sprinting in at the speed of sound=rein
Can't wait to see the Great Hacker Debate. Probably won't happen because it'll hurt blizzards feeling but would be great if it did happen.
Deku keeping it real
I don’t think she said anything of substance the entire podcast lol
I liked her chill addition to the cast ! But she’s a 6v6er so I might be biased because any 6v6er is a good content creator to me lol
@@ecclecticsayonce5131 anytime she gets asked to elaborate on anything she hits you with an "idk" lol she really doesn't bring anything to these conversations
Honestly they should just make damage boost have a hard cap at a certain point so it's helpful but not overpowering. Also, perhaps adjust sonar arrow so it gives Hanzo additional headshot damage on revealed enemies? Would keep his one shot and make it more intended rather than spamming a choke and getting a pick. Enemies would also be able to expect it more rather than turning a corner and dying. Obviously would require tweaks such as Sonar effect time and cooldown, but just a thought to maintain the best of both sides.
Feels like there is not much to do after you finish the battle pass anymore.
I really hate that “Prestige” only gives you a bunch of shitty title cards. Why even play at that point? It’s insulting.
They got their money out of you so they could give less of a f
When they were talking about the removal of one-shot abilities, I believe this is a response to several seasons ago where the devs realises the game was really roll or get rolled. The overall health buffs, and the passive healing were meant to help make team fights last longer, and harder to stagger low health stragglers.
At the time when the game was either roll or get rolled everyout said that the match maker was broken but the devs said they had stats to show that even when the MMR rating of both teams was minimal or non-existant they were sitll seering this dramatic steamroll situations. So several seasons later, here we are with larger hit boxes, more health, and healing passives.
Deku has almost zero to contribute to the discussion. Would not invite again
She’s just chilling. Which is good for her but sometimes I don’t feel her presence at all.
Yeah this is why the design of paladins was so cool and novel. You had stuff like damage reduction, healing reduction, CC reduction, reload speed increase. But you had to BUY and CHOOSE these things. In overwatch there's literally no thought or effort by the player for these things
Bobby K. was scum. I bet that blizzard has a crazy NDA that forced everyone into silence. A NDA that makes fake smiles. A NDA that means when mistakes are made we go full steam ahead. I think that NDA is ruining this game. Developers that can't talk to their community openly about their game should simply not be sustainable. The legal blockades stopping team 4 from talking about 6v6 and their game is what is making people give up on Overwatch.
6v6 people are so delusional they think NDAs are preventing devs from talking about 6v6 when they don't even consider it because they don't fucking care. 6v6 is your new flavor of the month because you've ran out of other things to bitch about. No tangible amount of people are leaving the game over 5v5.
“I’m gold damage!!!” Lol what a throw back
A balance idea I had for hanzo is what if his arrows did a little bit of bleed damage on top of the base damage. That way he could still technically 1 shot but it would give whoever was shot a second to potentially save themself
They'd have to lower his current headshot damage then because with 10 hp left there is barely any window to save yourself. I'd also imagine the tick rate for the bleed would be a nightmare to get just right.
Why not replace storm arrow with a piercing effect? His ult already pierces walls I think it would be nice to see his niche become a piercing hero. Nothing crazy, give him only two storm arrow charges that can go through at least one wall. That way you can sonar arrow and then eliminate an enemy who thinks they are safe behind a wall. Idk seems like that would make him pretty unique to the rest of the roster. Again, his arrows would only go through one wall so it wont be extremely broken.
Should be the same for widow
This is shit because the people who complained about one shot already suffered from skill issue. People will still complain about it because it one shots.
That, are it’ll be stupid easy to heal that damage
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 I love one shots, they are the only thing that bypasses the bullshit immortality ability that supports have lol.
wow the timing for the cass flashbang discussion is on point
I think venture ult is a bit wonky. The ult lasts too long imo. I think the ult should do 150 per charge and have 3 charges. This would nerf the overall damage but the burst potential is better.
My solution to the widow problem was to make it deal a dot that does more than 300 damage. Like a headshot deals 400 over 1.5 sec
I think Overwatch's current state is only fun for people who play Support.
I miss Overwatch 1 so badly...
It's not fun to play support. It feels more like Tank than ever where you have two choices, but they both suck -- do damage or keeping your teammates alive. If you choose damage it's very character dependent and TTK usually isn't enough to keep yourself alive. If you choose to heal, it's never enough and almost pointless. The DPS passive just trashed what made support really enjoyable -- saving your team. Every role feels bad though, because they finally got 5v5 pretty much perfect where every role feels like they do nothing while doing something. I think all of this would be better if we had another tank to spread out the damage, healing, blame, etc.
dps is also fun, but maybe that's because I only play a few hours/week
This was a really nice cross-section of people. I liked the diversity of perspectives
Jay3s hate for Sym is just so cringe, exist far worse characters
literally lmfao i just can’t take him serious at all. he’s clearly just doing it for engagement, sym ain’t even that annoying 😭😭 she literally does nothing and it’s unfair to want a hero to stay bad just because you personally dislike them
Just throwing my idea out there but what if Hanzo had three arrows he could shoot. A heavy metal arrow that could one shot squishy characters, the storm arrows, and a lightweight wooden arrows that would work like Io from Paladins. Fast and quick but would do less damage so that you could do more consistent damage at the cost of not being able to instakill.
The fact that everyone but Spilo just wants Symmetra to suffer really undermines their own credibility and just shows their own bias in a hero based game where bias only serves to hold the game back. These people and their opinions should not be held up on a pedestal and as an end all be all. None of these people even play her and echo the communities sentiments about Symmetra that they perpetuate. No character should ever be niche. Why even have the character at all and have her be selectable on any map? It's just batshit insane that they can't look past their own opinions or feelings and have an objective perspective. The fact she's in her terrible state is because of content creators like these always spouting their hatred for her and then they rip on her more for being bad? The lack of self awareness and their own contributions to Symmetras treatment by the studio and the community is mind blowing to me. They don't like a character and want her to be bad for no other reason than that. In any other setting, this would be unacceptable. 🤢
It’s cause she isn’t really worth to effort to rework properly just for her to be Junkrat 3.0 spamming the orbs down a choke even if the hitbox was much smaller.
I've watched other characters get the same treatment. but maybe people are just tired of Sym being reworked lmao
Yeah imagine in physical sports someone says, oh these kind of players/races should stay niche and never get any resources to compete, their career could be completely over and cancelled. The fact that it is not treated as such in gaming is baffling.
If you want the industry to become really Professional, you should uphold the same values and methodologies as other industry.
watching this post-patch, it's crazy that they made several of the specific changes that Spilo mentioned
"I hate playing and seeing the same four heroes every game! I see the same four heroes every game, I have for weeks!"
"Play something else?"
"No! I can't take the chance I might lose!"
"Maybe we can make more of the heroes that strong?"
"No! Only certain heroes should be strong! Certain heroes should never be strong!"
*Overwatch devs throw up hands*
If they keep making moiras and brigs and orisas strong, yea, game doesnt feel better than it would be with the same heroes being picked, i.e. when those are the classic kr dive with lucio zen winston dva tracer genii
So instead making brig a must pick or bap orisa sigma, which is worse, you could try and make it be rein zarya ana zen/mercy and dps depending on the map
Which would achieve both variety (which is at its best when the whole composition is map-dependent) and would result in not having the heroes who shouldnt be must-picks being exactly that.
Sure, throw picks would still exist, especially on some maps that dont favor certain heroes, but its still more variety and and more skill expression instead of the "i win because I know how to pick a counter", thus more fun.
@@YTHandlesWereAMistake If you want more map dependency, then you should want less Tracers and more Symmetras. Less Sojourns and more Reapers. The community doesn't want that, and yells every time that happens. What they want is less heroes, less choice, more "turn off my brain and just aim" heroes.
@@KingOfNebbishes i have to disagree, I dont think that example is appropriate and I don't think people would cry about variety when it's not forced because of counter-swaps like tank are nowadays.
Personally: My favorite time to play the game was when I had to flex 3 roles in order to finally reach gm. Back to back matches I had played: orisa, zarya, lucio, zen, widow, hanzo, genji, soldier, hog, zen. All depending on our team comps, map, part of the map, enemy team como, and it was like a whole art of figuring out how to help these people win being able to flex so much when others are not.
From my experience (and I should clarify, I started properly following pros when dive was about to end, and got masters in s10 of ow1), reaper has basically never been good in high rank lobbies apart from when they used winston dva lucio moira reaper.. doom? Comp for like a month and that was decent variety for some time. I also personally loved watching the guy known as reaper get top10 one-tricking him even when he was very, very bad. He did that by doing unexpected stuff.
And honestly, I do want reaper to be good again, but not a must-pick.
Maybe there were a few more mini-metas when he could be played, again with doom or sombra, on control center, soon after goats, but I dont remember anyone crying about him, and I was the one playing him in those amateur scrims.
However
Sym is very boring to play a lot of the time because the metas that favored her went like orisa sigma bastion sym bap zen/brig and that is no fun because you have up to 4 shields and only thing you do as a dps is hold LMB.
Otherwise yes she is getting picked and there are sym enjoyers and she should stay that way, niche but sometimes viable.
I had enough time played on both of them in those metas, which thankfully werent too long in time-span, and that was not fun, except a strat we had on lunar colony with tp from highground to point and back, whole squad. Got a bunch of great upsets with diamond folks in my team helping beat 3.8-4.2k average teams, but overall I'm glad that lasted for a short time.
(Dont get me started on the old versions of sym sith shield gen, troll tp and mini-shield, and auto aim - that was even worse in terms of skill expression bevause its nearly free value for a long time at which point she becomes a throwpick. Very lopsided and will get hated by the all the playerbase for opposite reasons - too good in low ranks, too bad in higher)
because some heroes are annoying to play against. dive meta is dynamic, choosing whether to peel or trade backlines adds some level of complexity to the game.
mauga meta was awful
hog meta is always annoying because there's a chance your team just gets rolled by him
also in lower ranks reaper and sym and bastion (v easy to get value out of) run the lobby. it's why the reaper rework is taking forever, because just buffing his numbers will screw up bronze-gold lobbies.
characters that have very high skill ceilings like echo or doom are amazing in the right hands, and buffing them will make them hard meta in high elo games.
it's not just "being a good character" you have to take in matchups and synergies into to account.
no one wants to play against one taps, so hanzo, widow or soj and ashe with dmg boost won't be something they bring back
buff lucio, for example, and some tanks just benefit from that more than others.
bringing back 6v6 makes this balancing act so much harder; it's not happening.
Hanzo should have flaming arrows that apply the burn debuff for 15dmg over 2 seconds or something so that way if you headshot someone and there’s not an immediate reaction from supports - you still get your “one shot”
This would work in CoD. Not in a game like Overwatch where there’s tanks and healers. Damage over time still won’t kill most targets you headshot. It only guarantees luck shots instead of hard to hit shots on people paying attention.
I still will give props because this gives the assassin playstyle still possible
16:28 Deku was cooking right here
1:13:20 Wait what???? I didn't even know that was a thing with sombra translocator. OMG this makes a huge difference.
For Cassidy, they should remove the Hinder and Slow from Nade but buff the damage, cooldown, travel speed, time before detonation, etc. So that it's still viable and can still be used on characters like Reaper and Tracer without them just Recalling or Wraithing out of it before it does the damage. To prevent Mag Nade from traveling too far, I think it's best if it just explodes after traveling a certain distance.
That’s basically what the nade was before they made it magnetic grenade. And nobody like a heat seeking damage missile. It was called the predator missile.
Nahhhh they should just fully revert to flash bang, it was more fun and had more counterplay
@@ecclecticsayonce5131 DPS & Supports should not have any hard CC. Even though "Hinder" is not hard CC, it feels awful to play against and a lot of players hate it even more than being stunned, often citing that is lasts longer than stuns do. Like Flash Bang lasted 0.75 seconds, whereas Hinder lasts 1.2 seconds.
Ana still needs Sleep Dart reworked into a non-hard CC Dart, Mei needs her ult to just be slow + damage, no freeze stun, etc... Cassidy Flash Bang should NEVER come back; chain-CC constantly hitting the Tanks in the front-line and people getting stunned out of ults often severely hurt Tank population numbers and even overall player numbers in OW1.
@@michaelc7418 I hard disagree lol
hinder should still exist, but lower the dmg to 35 (flashbang was 25, add 10 to compensate for health changes) and make it explode after traveling 10 meters instead of seeking forever.
that would make it work closer to old flashbang.
shooting out a idea for widow. when you scope in it'll show the enemy team a laser and to let them know your sight line and the color of the line will depend on what's your charge at. other thing to prevent blinding people is to have the line to fade away to barely able to see when close to it or entirely fades away.
So she’s useless
Thank God freedo ain't here.
They should allow a second tank but then the tanks get open queue stats as an experiment in qp
Sym having 180 dps is fine, id say it should even be 195 or higher. 180 dps isnt even that big of a threat anymore with increased health pools, Zarya also has more damage.
195 DPS= tank busting = even worse experience for tanks = less tank players = even longer queue times. Take denied lol
@@魚-c3d Tanks have gotten increased HP. 195 is not an issue. Its a compensation.
So cooking for hanzo, my take for fixing him is similar to spilo's junk idea, give his fully charge shots bounce like storm arrow, change storm arrow to shoot only 2 arrows at the same time but they are aimed in 2 directions and you can change vertical or horizontal similar to mie's wall before you place it and they bounce 4-6 times
HOLY SHIT SAMITO I DIDNT KNOW THAT WAS A SOMBRA SETTING. AND I AM A LOW GM PLAYER OMG THIS FEELS SO MUCH BETTER
Which one?
@@runaway74translocator camera lock
@@cl4709 thank you
nah spilo being older than jay3 is crazy, he could fr pass for 21
Deku is a terrible guest, she provided no insight
03:26:00
I think the best way you could change Widowmaker in the current game format while also getting rid of a lot of her one shot potential is to make her full charge headshot deal 250 HP up to a max range of 30-35 meters, so she needs to be close to being within reach of the effective range of most squishies.
However, landing a headshot of 70% charge or more will debuff the target with a “Broken” status effect, inceasing the damage taken from all sources by 20% for 2 seconds.
Thoughts?
spilo is so smart
I’d love to see a change to Hanzo where after he gets a kill, he gets a damage buff to primary fire for a duration and has the capability to one shot headshot during that time. Other ideas I’ve had are having a “perfect shot” mechanic where you release right as you fully draw the arrow and it’ll be have one shot damage, or making the sonar arrow have increased damage so that the one shot is on a cooldown.
Not all the way through the pod but some of the comments in the Gen Feelings section about “man if I 1v1 a tank I die” are bananas
Yeah, like in 1v1's in OW1 they were out soloing tanks lol.
Let's be honest, if you 1v1 a tank, you've messed up. They want to play all aim no brain style and get mad when they get outplayed.
@@KingOfNebbishesThat too, but this group leaned too far into the OW1 nostalgia for me lol back in OW1 you could 1v1 tanks with Brig and come out on top every time. And we wonder why tank players left in droves? Lol i can’t
@@BuildingHPsupport balance problem not dps
Oh yeah the 250 hp soldier can kill the 1000 hp ball.
A good dps should be able to solo an out of position tank with aim and game sense. Why should tank auto win every 1v1 thats not good design.
For widow perhaps they could segment the damage main fire does, so her shots could do like 60% of the current damage up front and then tick 4 times for 10% each over 2 seconds or so. Call it poison bullets, widows kiss or whatever.
You remove the instant one shot wyle keeping her overall damage potential, and provide some slight counterplay for supports.
She stays just as effective against flankers and people out of position, but is less server admin vs decent teams.
I’m so with it. If she has a dot, then supports can actually help their dps instead of trying to get her to swap. Why is that the goal with widow?
Yeah thats how I see most games go with an oppressive widow, everyone's trying to take shots to make her angles meaningless and force a swap. Or ignore her and lose every teamfight one pick at a time.
That would make her awful. All she has is her one shot.
All they need to do is increase the time it takes to charge or make it take more ammo to max out, so her downtime is abusable.
@thiefpotato2759 I don't think it would be that bad, you could do the same thing for hanzo and give him his one shot back in the same way, just call it bleed dmg. As an alternative to instant one shot I think that's a fair compromise. They'll probably never change her though.