True, however the 0-60 gives some idea as to how a car can get its power down... Although it means a little less these days, as its easily tweaked to sell cars (to a point).
+Flash Man i think if you say something like that "ugly ass piece of shit gtr's..blabla" you're not really a car enthousiast..i like and appreciate all cars! Every car has its ups and downs! I dream of both the gt2rs and the gtr! But also every other sports/supercar...you have to appreciate all of they're technology and r&d and desigsn's..offcourse one can like one more than an other,but to say you hate it and its shit and all that? I dont know...
Ten years ago when these cars were new, the Nissan GTR was less than half the price of the Porsche 911 GT2RS. A more apt comparison would be the GTR vs the 997 911 Turbo. Those two cars were roughly equal in performance. Even then, the 911 Turbo was more expensive, so an even more apt comparison would be the GTR Spec V vs the 911 Turbo S. I have never seen those two cars compared, probably because the Spec V was only sold in Japan. Today, the 992 911 clearly outshines the twelve year old R35 GTR. Nissan needs to come out with the R36 soon in order to be relevant in the supercar market again.
@112namrepus Yes comparison with the GT3, GT3 RS, or Turbo S would make sense. Preferably on a dry track. I don't know how much it costs to lease the car, pay the insurance, and film these videos, but I think the guys at Autocar should do some more GT2 RS vs. comparisons
@benpowellfforddlas i think this is because the use LEDs in the rear lights and to save power consumption they power the LEDs around 100 times per second. With the naked eye you can't see it but trough a camera you see it flashing. Its just the same as you point a camera at a old computer monitor or tv screens.
Its obvious that Jamie is having a great time in that car!! =D Nice comparison! Nice job! Ans since I don't want a race car for an everyday use, I'll stay with the Carrera for myself, please! :)
@eeeen321 lol well said by you to. the awd drive turbo really is just an absolute bomb shell! It just seems to be able to destroy every car and never seems to try and look over the top like a lambo, quietely confident. They raced it against one of our australian touring V8 supercars, turbo was leading first half of the lap, then fell down on gear ratio difference. Do u think the turbo could really beat the gt2rs cause of the awd?
@TheBehemod I thought they flash under hard braking, so drivers behind are alerted and aware. I heard about Mercedes putting this in their cars a few years ago, where the brake light was meant to be a brighter or stronger red under hard braking.
@saxaza97 and what you would have at the end of the day is still a Carrera that probably still isn't as quick as a GT2 RS. And even if it could match it in a straight line, which I doubt, it would still corner like a Carrera. Wouldn't you rather just save up for a bit longer until you get that 20k then buy a GT2 RS or something awesome
@edoloman24 umm because its made for the track with balance in mind, not just a science experiment to see how much power can be squeezed out of the motor....it doesn't have turbos so the power and torque distribution through the rev range is more linear...driving this car will definitely be harder to get all that power down and not lose control where as the gt3 rs 4.0 will be like a race car, i guarantee the gt3 will be like glue around the same corners where this car would spin out...
the ceramic brakes that porsche offeres really puzzle me. the base carrera has porsche's lowly black coloured brakes. while the carrera s has the better red brakes. the gt2 rs has the $9000 ceramic brake option and it only stops 3 meters shorter than the carrera. this can only mean three things. 1. the ceramic brakes are not worth the money 2. the base carrera's brakes are already above par 3. if you do actually pay for the yellow brakes you're most likely paying for the yellow calipers.
Might just be me, but Jamie Castorphine comes across as a really competent and likeable presenter, along with Steve Sutcliffe. If only they had Chris Harris back, they could rival that programme on the BBC as a serious - but entertaining alternative. Keep up the good work Autocar, and I'll keep renewing my subscription : )
@Truemoderate $100,000 for a base Carrera? What have you been smoking? The Porsche website right now cites the base Carrera as having a starting MSRP of just over $77,000. The first car in the 911 line that goes six-digit is the Carrera S Cabriolet, and the first hard-top to cross the hundred-thousand mark is the Carrera GTS. A good half of the Porsche 911 range starts under $100,000 and while that may very well go up with their infamous options list, it'd be hard to get a $100k Carrera 2.
From a physics point of view the engine in the 911 is actually in the best place. It's the hardest layout to harness as it lends itself to knife edge handling at the limit but technically the best.
I fail to see why this comparison is based on the price difference. The price difference between these cars is irrelevant. Why you might ask? Simple. The GT2RS is a car that will be purchased by someone who can afford it. Someone who is going to drop that much money really doesn't care about the price. You're paying for prestige and exclusivity in that price range. The 911 on the other hand is a car that is attainable to your average enthusiast. Both cars meet different segment needs. Period.
On a track you only do a launch maybe once (if your actually racing) in the real world you stop all over the place, and i find myself quite often in a street light started drag race.
@rxs10000 yeah. i definitely know what you mean. i live in America, you're about 10,000x more likely to see a corvette than a gt2rs. Ive only seen one in a gray color. it was amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if the weight to power is almost double the carrera and the diffrence is 3 sec around track..i could use the extra 100 grand and use it that is more usefull in real life
What a great discussion about the GTR and the GT2 RS. Why don't you compare teh laptimes? Let's see how fast they are on the Nordschleife: GTR: 7:38 GT2 RS: 7:24 Looks like the Posche owned the japanese toycar.
It should be GT2 RS vs Carrera GT.Although the GT has a V10 and the GT2 a V6,they roughly have 612+ BHP.They're both made from light materials,both RWD and both can reach 200+ MPH,they are both neck and neck =)
true you pay for what you get but for 90% of the drivers and 98% of the time the base 911 is all that you need unless you just want to take it to the track and race it which even takes ore bucks as the wear and tear of tires among everything else.
@AlexDeLarge90 Here you are right, too. When you buy a Porsche you also have to pay for the brand and its successes in motorsports. A bit like these expensive apples on some computers. ;)
@rxs10000 I saw one too, on my Birthday. I was in Downtown, Vancouver walking to a building then I saw this beautiful silver GT2 RS and couldn't keep my eyes off it. Too bad the GT2 RS is extremely limited -.-
@MeisterYodarkus There's a simple explanation for that. It is called "the price of a brand". Levi's can charge more for their jeans despite them not being better qualiwise than many other brands. Harley Davidson were nowhere near the qualitylevels of japanese motorcycles in the 80's and 90's (and not now either), but since it was a Harley they could still charge a higher price. A Rolls Royce Silver Spirit wasn't three times better than a Mercedes S-class, but it was a Rolls Royce!! Get it??
@subzerostorm on a track where the gt2rs is just spinning? ... the 997 gen2 turboS would rape the gt2rs, and the 997 gen2 turbo non-S turbo would out lap as well I bet. Just look where the base rwd 911 stayed on the gt2rs, just imagine how the smart awd systems in the turbo and turbo S would work in these conditions, much quicker lap times I bet.
The line the two drivers are taking through the corners is completely different.... whoever was driving the regular 911 wasn't even trying (or has no skill)... not an even comparison ... still a great glimpse of the GT2 RS's amazing attributes though. What a car!!
@MCmopman The GT2 RS has 90hp more and weighs 400kg less than the GT-R, yet it's only slightly faster. Do you know anything about cars? The GT-R destroys the R8 and F430 around the track, the 2012 is even faster than an Enzo. The 458 isn't even in the same league as the GT2 RS.
@kshahab6: First, you have to understand that Porsche brakes are one of the best (if not the best!) there is!! So, improving the braking distance by 50cm is already very difficult!! So, 3m is huge!!!! But, most of all, braking is more about feeling and durability than about braking distance! And for this purpose, the ceramic brakes are virtually undestructible!! (in the reality, you have to change them if you practise track very often and very hard) And last thing, they are much more lighter!
I love the GT2 a lot but I genuinely thought it will destroy the humble base car. But Twice as fast and cost more than 3 times the price. I’d take the Carrera and be happy if I took the GT2 based on this test at nearly 4 times the price of the Carrera, I’ll feel like I was robbed!
A bit of a stupid review, although i love these cars.The gt2 RS is definately worth the extra 100k. Your buying pretty much a fully fledge race car with blinkers and a number plate. Its got ceramic brakes, wider body, stiffer chasy, better tyres, better aerodynamics and thats not even including the engine. The engine is putting out 600 somthing bhp where are the carrera 300 something bhp, twice the P2Weight. They are both beautiful cars but not in the same league. better cayman vs carrera.
911 GT2 RS vs 599 GTO vs LP670-4 SV vs ZR1 on a dry day with a proper racing driver and similar tires. I would wet myself for that one :D Thumbs up if you would too
People love talking about how the engine is in the wrong place on 911's at one point in time that might have been a reasonable argument...one thing you cant argue with is a 7:18 around the Nurburgring. aka faster than any road ferrari, lamborghini, pagani, maserati, mercedes, bmw, audi, ford, and chevrolet. Sometimes wrong can be right i guess
I would wait a bit, and pick up a GT2 RS at a police impound auction for pennies on the dollar after the previous owner was imprisoned for a record breaking speeding ticket.
@subzerostorm well said. It was a rather pointless review, I was confused why they did not grab a gt3?? the base Carrera is on the opposite end of the 911-spectrum, which I don't consider a comparable test at all. : \ I would have even been more please with the awd 911turbo; the awd turbo would have more than likely out lapped the gt2rs. Re-race with a gt3, or even a gt3rs VS. the gt2rs (with a dry track)
@tikrik78 lol, no, not on a "dry Nurburgring". I agree 100% with that; thats why I said "on a track where the gt2rs is just spinning", But I should have just said, "On a short, curve-tastic track".... The dry Ring', THAT is where the GT2rs would FLY!!!!!!!!
@sekis9 oh the porsche cost much more? wow, of course he does. maybe you should sit in both cars and drive them and maybe then you understand because porsches cost much more than japanese cars.
I don't think so. With more than 200 HP shy and two and half times the weight, F1 cars will simply kill it. F1 will not allow it because Porsche is not participating in F1.
Worth half a Million now!!!!!!! And probably the best and fastest Porsche made to date! I know it's my favorite car on the planet!
True, however the 0-60 gives some idea as to how a car can get its power down... Although it means a little less these days, as its easily tweaked to sell cars (to a point).
All you GTR fanboys bow down to your lord and master. The Porsche GT2..... RS!
but the GTR is...well crap
And everyone plz puke on the gtr
Sniff.. I'm so happy. I thought I was the only one.. the only one that hated that piece of shit ugly ass GTR. You're all beautiful people.
+Flash Man i think if you say something like that "ugly ass piece of shit gtr's..blabla" you're not really a car enthousiast..i like and appreciate all cars! Every car has its ups and downs! I dream of both the gt2rs and the gtr! But also every other sports/supercar...you have to appreciate all of they're technology and r&d and desigsn's..offcourse one can like one more than an other,but to say you hate it and its shit and all that? I dont know...
Ten years ago when these cars were new, the Nissan GTR was less than half the price of the Porsche 911 GT2RS.
A more apt comparison would be the GTR vs the 997 911 Turbo. Those two cars were roughly equal in performance.
Even then, the 911 Turbo was more expensive, so an even more apt comparison would be the GTR Spec V vs the 911 Turbo S. I have never seen those two cars compared, probably because the Spec V was only sold in Japan.
Today, the 992 911 clearly outshines the twelve year old R35 GTR. Nissan needs to come out with the R36 soon in order to be relevant in the supercar market again.
I'm not particularly a Porsche fan, but the GT2 RS especially in black looks stunning and super aggressive
at the beginning that drift was amazing
@112namrepus Yes comparison with the GT3, GT3 RS, or Turbo S would make sense. Preferably on a dry track. I don't know how much it costs to lease the car, pay the insurance, and film these videos, but I think the guys at Autocar should do some more GT2 RS vs. comparisons
@benpowellfforddlas i think this is because the use LEDs in the rear lights and to save power consumption they power the LEDs around 100 times per second. With the naked eye you can't see it but trough a camera you see it flashing. Its just the same as you point a camera at a old computer monitor or tv screens.
Its obvious that Jamie is having a great time in that car!! =D Nice comparison! Nice job! Ans since I don't want a race car for an everyday use, I'll stay with the Carrera for myself, please! :)
amazing car! been waiting for autocar to get hold of one of these. you are my fav car show. could've gone into a bit more detail but that's just me.
That is by far the best 911 to date but i do love the new GT 3 RS too. With the grills in the front fenders....nasty!!
@eeeen321
lol well said by you to. the awd drive turbo really is just an absolute bomb shell! It just seems to be able to destroy every car and never seems to try and look over the top like a lambo, quietely confident. They raced it against one of our australian touring V8 supercars, turbo was leading first half of the lap, then fell down on gear ratio difference. Do u think the turbo could really beat the gt2rs cause of the awd?
The difference in the 0-150 mph drag race is just unbelievable!!!!!
@frank3c03 All 911's use a Flat 6, not a V6. Hence the boxer wail.
@mkampinga Judging by laptimes the Spec-V hasn't really been put through it's paces.
@TheBehemod I thought they flash under hard braking, so drivers behind are alerted and aware. I heard about Mercedes putting this in their cars a few years ago, where the brake light was meant to be a brighter or stronger red under hard braking.
Why do the Carrera's rear brake lights flash as it drove away? I've seen this a lot on German cars.... can anyone fill me in?
@vvysoc 3 seconds are actually a huge number in racing, especially on such a short track like in this video.
you can tell from the the title of this video that it's from another time. but the car featured in the video is still very relevant today.
@justforwatchingcraps in fact, the GT3 and the GT2 are from the 997 series..
@saxaza97 and what you would have at the end of the day is still a Carrera that probably still isn't as quick as a GT2 RS. And even if it could match it in a straight line, which I doubt, it would still corner like a Carrera. Wouldn't you rather just save up for a bit longer until you get that 20k then buy a GT2 RS or something awesome
@edoloman24 umm because its made for the track with balance in mind, not just a science experiment to see how much power can be squeezed out of the motor....it doesn't have turbos so the power and torque distribution through the rev range is more linear...driving this car will definitely be harder to get all that power down and not lose control where as the gt3 rs 4.0 will be like a race car, i guarantee the gt3 will be like glue around the same corners where this car would spin out...
@ZNOLMT That should be a fun comparison. Both are epicly fast and both have the same DNA but different purposes.
How does the 2014 Carerra stack up against the 2010 GT2 ??
@flimper1 I agree. It's like to compare a E90 325i with a E92 M3 DCT.
the ceramic brakes that porsche offeres really puzzle me. the base carrera has porsche's lowly black coloured brakes. while the carrera s has the better red brakes. the gt2 rs has the $9000 ceramic brake option and it only stops 3 meters shorter than the carrera. this can only mean three things. 1. the ceramic brakes are not worth the money 2. the base carrera's brakes are already above par 3. if you do actually pay for the yellow brakes you're most likely paying for the yellow calipers.
Might just be me, but Jamie Castorphine comes across as a really competent and likeable presenter, along with Steve Sutcliffe. If only they had Chris Harris back, they could rival that programme on the BBC as a serious - but entertaining alternative. Keep up the good work Autocar, and I'll keep renewing my subscription : )
I dont think people in the UK are sure what system to use most of the time. I'm from Canada and it's the same way there, a mix of both systems.
@dailyforman
Hmm thats raw engine sound. Porsche dont use noise changing exhaust. Its their signature
@12389h the GT-R has satnav, 11 stereospeakers with subwoofer etc dont forget to mention stuff like that :p also got the GT-R specv btw
I would do anything for this car, I swear one day I will own a GT2 RS
What is the name of this song @ 7seconds? Its amazing. I work for Porsche, and the GT cars are simply stunning.
@Truemoderate $100,000 for a base Carrera? What have you been smoking? The Porsche website right now cites the base Carrera as having a starting MSRP of just over $77,000. The first car in the 911 line that goes six-digit is the Carrera S Cabriolet, and the first hard-top to cross the hundred-thousand mark is the Carrera GTS. A good half of the Porsche 911 range starts under $100,000 and while that may very well go up with their infamous options list, it'd be hard to get a $100k Carrera 2.
is the carrera with pdk or did it use launch control?
@RamboLambo002 The problem is the aerodynamics. And also business contract with mercedes.
@ratmtbola yea if it is your carreer to race but not to just own even on track days once in a while...but yea it is a big diffrence in long run
GT2 RS cars appear to have appreciated in value quite nicely.
simply the best, wet or dry. Requires a proper driver though.
From a physics point of view the engine in the 911 is actually in the best place. It's the hardest layout to harness as it lends itself to knife edge handling at the limit but technically the best.
I fail to see why this comparison is based on the price difference. The price difference between these cars is irrelevant. Why you might ask? Simple. The GT2RS is a car that will be purchased by someone who can afford it. Someone who is going to drop that much money really doesn't care about the price. You're paying for prestige and exclusivity in that price range. The 911 on the other hand is a car that is attainable to your average enthusiast. Both cars meet different segment needs. Period.
hows the regular 2 or 2s in the rain?
@GR3B3N yeah and because of that the designers of the corvette are thinking of making it mid-engined...which will kill off the corvette in my opinion
@militiamc I doubt that Autocar has to lease the car. They get free press cars from Porsche to do their reviews.
On a track you only do a launch maybe once (if your actually racing) in the real world you stop all over the place, and i find myself quite often in a street light started drag race.
@rxs10000 yeah. i definitely know what you mean. i live in America, you're about 10,000x more likely to see a corvette than a gt2rs. Ive only seen one in a gray color. it was amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if the weight to power is almost double the carrera and the diffrence is 3 sec around track..i could use the extra 100 grand and use it that is more usefull in real life
@frank3c03 It´s a flat-6 not a V6
Whats the song playing in the background during the comparison
What a great discussion about the GTR and the GT2 RS. Why don't you compare teh laptimes? Let's see how fast they are on the Nordschleife:
GTR: 7:38
GT2 RS: 7:24
Looks like the Posche owned the japanese toycar.
Nice test :) Thanks!
(saving money for the 2013 Lotus Elise, though ... I can't afford a GT2)
@nakayama3d What about the ferrari 458 For the same money as the gt2 rs and you get all the luxuries
@speedenforcer918 What V6? it's a flat six.
@JunkieJay3000 i agree. this is possibly the best performance car review i have ever seen
It should be GT2 RS vs Carrera GT.Although the GT has a V10 and the GT2 a V6,they roughly have 612+ BHP.They're both made from light materials,both RWD and both can reach 200+ MPH,they are both neck and neck =)
true you pay for what you get but for 90% of the drivers and 98% of the time the base 911 is all that you need unless you just want to take it to the track and race it which even takes ore bucks as the wear and tear of tires among everything else.
@AlexDeLarge90 Here you are right, too. When you buy a Porsche you also have to pay for the brand and its successes in motorsports. A bit like these expensive apples on some computers. ;)
@rxs10000 I saw one too, on my Birthday.
I was in Downtown, Vancouver walking to a building then I saw this beautiful silver GT2 RS and couldn't keep my eyes off it. Too bad the GT2 RS is extremely limited -.-
gt2 rs or gt3 rs ?
Youre right, the most important is from 50-150 i would say.
@justforwatchingcraps I don't remember! It was 5 months ago..
the beginning drift was EPIC
do a video of a porsche 911 GT2 RS VS ferrari's 599 GTO please!!
@Truemoderate It's a British show, which means prices are in pounds...
Its a measure of torque and grip.
I wonder why 0-60 is so important. I should think acceleration while you're already moving would mean more in the real world.
@StingRayINC a/c is optional
@MeisterYodarkus
There's a simple explanation for that. It is called "the price of a brand". Levi's can charge more for their jeans despite them not being better qualiwise than many other brands. Harley Davidson were nowhere near the qualitylevels of japanese motorcycles in the 80's and 90's (and not now either), but since it was a Harley they could still charge a higher price.
A Rolls Royce Silver Spirit wasn't three times better than a Mercedes S-class, but it was a Rolls Royce!! Get it??
Please the name of the song?when start the video.thak you
Why would anyone compare a GT2 RS to a simple BASE Carrera? Instead, compare it to the GT3 or maybe the GT3 RS?
@LUGUBRUCE Porsche GT2 is V6 Twin/Bi Turbo
I'd have both Carrera PDK for weekdays and GT2RS for weekends :-)
@rxs10000 I heard that in real life they really do sound very similar to a jet fighter, good observation. :D
@McLarenMercedes It´s not a V6.
Porsche 2012 4.0 gt3 is the best car under $180,000.If I was worth a few mil,it would be the first thing I would order tomorrow!
Carrera to GT3 RS is made smart engineers in Germany, the GT2 and the GT2 RS is made by MADMAN... I JUST LOVE IT!!!
@mattyoz0 Oh sorry,I always mix up with those two
@subzerostorm on a track where the gt2rs is just spinning? ... the 997 gen2 turboS would rape the gt2rs, and the 997 gen2 turbo non-S turbo would out lap as well I bet. Just look where the base rwd 911 stayed on the gt2rs, just imagine how the smart awd systems in the turbo and turbo S would work in these conditions, much quicker lap times I bet.
The line the two drivers are taking through the corners is completely different.... whoever was driving the regular 911 wasn't even trying (or has no skill)... not an even comparison ... still a great glimpse of the GT2 RS's amazing attributes though. What a car!!
gt2 rs vs gt3 rs?
Other than the 993 turbo, this gt2 is the best looking Porsche I have ever seen
Wheres vicki...?
Its been a while tht i havent seen her..:-(
@MCmopman The GT2 RS has 90hp more and weighs 400kg less than the GT-R, yet it's only slightly faster. Do you know anything about cars? The GT-R destroys the R8 and F430 around the track, the 2012 is even faster than an Enzo. The 458 isn't even in the same league as the GT2 RS.
@kshahab6: First, you have to understand that Porsche brakes are one of the best (if not the best!) there is!! So, improving the braking distance by 50cm is already very difficult!! So, 3m is huge!!!!
But, most of all, braking is more about feeling and durability than about braking distance! And for this purpose, the ceramic brakes are virtually undestructible!! (in the reality, you have to change them if you practise track very often and very hard)
And last thing, they are much more lighter!
So a more powerful and more sporty version of a 911 is faster than a standard 911.
Now then it is quite the info you've got there.
I love the GT2 a lot but I genuinely thought it will destroy the humble base car.
But Twice as fast and cost more than 3 times the price. I’d take the Carrera and be happy if I took the GT2 based on this test at nearly 4 times the price of the Carrera, I’ll feel like I was robbed!
A bit of a stupid review, although i love these cars.The gt2 RS is definately worth the extra 100k. Your buying pretty much a fully fledge race car with blinkers and a number plate. Its got ceramic brakes, wider body, stiffer chasy, better tyres, better aerodynamics and thats not even including the engine. The engine is putting out 600 somthing bhp where are the carrera 300 something bhp, twice the P2Weight. They are both beautiful cars but not in the same league. better cayman vs carrera.
911 GT2 RS vs 599 GTO vs LP670-4 SV vs ZR1 on a dry day with a proper racing driver and similar tires. I would wet myself for that one :D Thumbs up if you would too
@MeisterYodarkus
GT2 RS : 164.000 pound
GTR : 70.000 pound with extras
you do the math, or should i do it for you?
@akshayjku Riiiiight, and I have a Zonda and its really slow.
People love talking about how the engine is in the wrong place on 911's at one point in time that might have been a reasonable argument...one thing you cant argue with is a 7:18 around the Nurburgring. aka faster than any road ferrari, lamborghini, pagani, maserati, mercedes, bmw, audi, ford, and chevrolet. Sometimes wrong can be right i guess
I would wait a bit, and pick up a GT2 RS at a police impound auction for pennies on the dollar after the previous owner was imprisoned for a record breaking speeding ticket.
You measure speed in miles/hour but distance in meters? What gives?
@subzerostorm well said.
It was a rather pointless review, I was confused why they did not grab a gt3?? the base Carrera is on the opposite end of the 911-spectrum, which I don't consider a comparable test at all. : \
I would have even been more please with the awd 911turbo; the awd turbo would have more than likely out lapped the gt2rs. Re-race with a gt3, or even a gt3rs VS. the gt2rs (with a dry track)
If i could have any car on earth it would be the GT 2 RS! I just don't know what color i would choose black, silver, red?? Maybe silver!
@tikrik78 lol, no, not on a "dry Nurburgring". I agree 100% with that; thats why I said "on a track where the gt2rs is just spinning", But I should have just said, "On a short, curve-tastic track"....
The dry Ring', THAT is where the GT2rs would FLY!!!!!!!!
@sekis9 oh the porsche cost much more? wow, of course he does. maybe you should sit in both cars and drive them and maybe then you understand because porsches cost much more than japanese cars.
I don't think so. With more than 200 HP shy and two and half times the weight, F1 cars will simply kill it. F1 will not allow it because Porsche is not participating in F1.
@Towelman20
So right. No matter how much better the GTR is in numbers. Porsche Engineering is always the best!
Impossible to have it in Italy road tax for 600 cv = 6000€
@nakayama3d
Yeah, that's why Porsche uses a V6 (from Volkswagen) in their Cayenne.
Troll or genuine fool? Which one is it??
should have put it against the turbo