Oil needs to be changed regardless if its a CVT or an automatic. Biggest bull around from major manufacturers is the myth of permanently sealed transmissions, CVT or regular automatic.
The major car companies that profit from “sealed” transmissions, says to stop spreading information that is missed. Is that the same thing as “mis-information?” 😂
Oil needs to be changed ESPECIALLY in a CVT, as the whole principle is based on FRICTION and therefore the oil gets contaminated with tiny metal particles. The oil is also used to cool the CVT transmission, as with friction inevitably comes heat, meaning the oil also degrades.
A guy I worked with had an X-Trail with a CVT. It crapped its self when he was 1000km from home. The mechanic that replaced the transmission suggested that there were 2 types of X-Trail CVT: Those that have died and those that are about to die.
I'm glad that changing the CVT fluid in my ex's first gen Jazz is an easy DIY job. Sure it's painful being bent over on the genuine OEM Honda fluid that's required, but a few litres of fluid every couple of years is cheaper than a CVT rebuild. 19 years and 200k later, the CVT still works as good as can be expected for a car that's old enough to vote.
They say the same bout other sealed units like the gearboxes on the old AU taxis, and the B series falcons for example. Keep them serviced at reasonable intervals and they'll last for life, literally
As an independent mechanic with my own shop in Melbourne (this is my professional opinion) There is no such thing as sealed for life all types of oil will degrade over time & so do eventually need to be renewed. My recommendation is to change the oil at around 60,000kms-80,000kms
indeed. But as the excellent toyota shop mechanic who has channel called "the car care nut" says, i'ts sort a balance between changing relatively often but not too often, bcuz as trans ages, it needs a bit of the clutch powder in the fluid in order to keep worn clutch areas with enough friction to not slip and then burn out, etc. Do u agree or not?
Your opinion please. We have a 2003 Honda CRV with the 2.4i VTEC engine, used by my elderly mother for short local trips, total of 1800 km per year. The CRV currently has 198,000 km on the odometer and we want to change the ATF - don't know the full history of the car. Was purchased end of 2013 with 175,000 on the clock. The CRV has had excellent reliability over the last 11 years of ownership and we've done the usual annual services using full synthetic oil. I presume WE SHOULD NOT FLUSH THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION? Your opinion and advice please.
@@Richard-sl8wepull the transmission dip stick and wipe some of that oil on a white piece of paper. If the oil is a nice red colour, then it's good. If it is brown or other colour, then change it.
@@18_rabbit yes I agree which is why I suggest to simply change the fluid & filter, as you are only ever replacing approximately 40%-45% of the existing fluid during a transmission fluid change. Never ever use a flushing machine as this has the potential to cause damage in many cases where you have higher mileage. Sometimes if it has done 150,000ks + I would just leave it alone as some of the older transmissions work better with dirty fluid since it has more friction. New fluid can cause a lot of slippage which a well worn transmission could be more harmful.
@@18_rabbit I disagree with the CCN on this matter. It's my opinion that transmission failures soon after fluid replacement have nothing to do with the fluid replacement and everything to do with the vehicle's owner neglecting the transmission until it shows signs of failure. At this time, the fluid is inspected and found to be unserviceable, whereby it is then replaced. However, the failing transmission is beyond help at this point and it fails soon after. Owners and mechanics then mistakenly conclude that the fluid change caused the impending failure.
I made the mistake of allowing my wife to buy a CVT Nissan Kicks. No problems so far at $65k MILES. I’m one who also does not believe in ‘sealed for life’, so EVERY oil change (4-5k miles) I drain about one gallon of CVT fluid and replace it with fresh fluid. I have to say that every time I really don’t like the color. I think my next oil change will include a full pan removal and filter check to see how things are doing. I also have a regular-automatic Nissan Versa (my wife’s old car), that I still drive after 230,000 miles- and I did the same thing on this one up until about a year ago- draining about one gallon of trans fluid every oil change. I think this is a good way to ensure long life.
If the 5,000 mile service interval is something you're comfortable with financially and with the extra effort involved, then by all means, keep it up! If you'd like to reduce servicing time/cost, 30,000 miles is the sweet spot for servicing these CVTs. I'm a former mobile mechanic turned mobile programmer/diagnostics tech, and I see about one of these a month (I have a 16 Rogue scheduled for tomorrow that just got a new trans, in fact!), and I've gotten to tear down several failed units. Every failure I've seen has been the result of internal seal hardening; worn fluid losing its anti-oxidation properties, plus heat, and voila, fluid bypassing a seal makes your drive and driven cones move at different rates, snapping the belt. :)
They need double the maintenance then automatic. Filter and fluid change every 50k km / 30k miles. I'm lazy to do all the job and don't want to pay just buy older Honda that use 5 speed.
I am not even bother going to watch this because the title should read: "Should you change the oil in a sealed system?" - The answer is yes. Yes you should
Or better yet don't get vehicles with them in the first place. I know the range of non CVT vehicles is getting smaller by the day, but the fragility of the transmission is not an additional worry I need.
Thanks for your clip John. Just last week we asked our local Subaru dealership to change the oil of our 01/2020 Subaru Liberty CVT during the 75,000km service. Subaru dealership charged us $400 for changing the CVT oil alone. Thankfully the old oil sample looked clean. Interestingly, they quoted us $1100 to change the CVT oil and internal filter would require dropping the transmission sump and gasket reseal. These Subaru dealerships know how to fleece your wallet
I kept on getting fobbed off by Subaru, saying that it wasn’t required etc for my wife’s outback (2016) - ended up changing it at fluiddrive for $600 for all filter and oil at 200k, driving much better now
This is the reason why I don’t buy new or newish vehicles because I can work on my own vehicles. I change my own oil for around $100 that’s engine oil. Probably the oil for cvt’s would cost an arm and a leg per litre.
I have done my own Subaru transmission CVT oil change. The filter gaskets+oil isn't cheap. Your $800 quote isn't bad if you account for $100 per hour for your mechanic
The Car Wizard channel did a video on changing the fluid in a CVT. He mentioned how bad it smelled after relatively low mileage, which raises questions about the chemistry used in the fluid to make a CVT functional.
Comes down to what my dad said when they tried this “who’s life?” When pushed they wouldn’t answer so he passed. He was going to get 6 cars and passed immediately (fleet) always service these “lifetime fluids”
I have a 2015 BMW 328. BMW says trans is sealed for life. As a former mechanic I know better. I contacted the actual manufacturer of the transmission (ZF) in Germany. Not only did they tell me that the trans must be serviced at regular intervals, they even provided me with a PDF on how to perform the procedure should I want to do it myself. Regarding CVT's, Subaru advises changing the CVT fluid every ~35k miles, so at least there's one manufacturer that doesn't preach that "sealed for life" nonsense.
A mate had one of the last xr6 falcons and the auto was a simmialr deal, the stealership said 'sealed for life' but the gearbox manufacturer said every 80000kms
FWIW: I bought an Olight 6 or 7 years ago, and keep it charged by the front door with that magnetic charger for nighttime doggie walks. It's by far the best flashlight I've ever had. I've dropped it on concrete a couple of times, and it just keeps working.They are expensive, yes, but worth it. "Buy once, cry once". (Note: My experience is limited, as I've only been on the planet for a short 73 years.)
I’ve beat the daylights out of my olight - dropping it, throwing it to someone who couldn’t catch it and it smashed into the ground, having it fall out of my pocket in the yard and losing track it for 2 weeks, and on and on. It’s still with me everyday and works fine.
John mentions oil changes using a 4L from super cheap auto, what you need to be mindful of, doing a DIY transmission oil change, is gearboxes have filters. Those filters should be changed along with the oil (hence I take mine to a transmission specialist) - a good way to see if your local place is decent, see if their a member of the transmission rebuilders association Australia.
Fun fact; “good for the lifetime of the vehicle” is defined by auto makers as “until the warranty runs out”. You’re supposed to be a good consumer and buy a new one before then. In 2011 we bought a new G6E Falcon and I asked to see under the bonnet. The dealer was surprised as “nobody asks to see under there anymore these days”. I asked where the dipstick was for the ZF auto in it. The service manager told us “it doesn’t need one, the fluid is good for the life of the car”. Is it now…🙄 CVT’s are even worse than a “normal” automatic. The advice from mechanics is to change the fluid every 25-30,000km as it faces much more wear than a normal automatic.
Not a mechanic, but I thought it was relatively common for gearboxes to lack dipsticks? Generally you drain from one port and fill to the bottom thread of the fill port That’s what I did recently when I changed the oil in my lil 4 banger FWD shtbox…
I am a retired mechanic with 37 years experience. Newer vehicles do have a "lifetime" because it very quickly becomes impossible to fix them due to cost and a lack of parts. However, older vehicles don't have a lifetime, unless they are wrecked or rusted away. They can be kept going literally forever just by replacing parts. I have a 1955 Chevy that is still in near perfect condition. Obviously it is not completely original. In fact, pretty much all of its mechanical parts have been replaced, several have been replaced many times. Some of its body parts have been replaced. So it is not really the "original car" But it still looks and runs the same, or better. And unless something catastrophic happens to it, it can be kept going indefinitely. You can, in fact, build a 1955 Chevy out of parts catalogs, without using a single GM part. New cars are designed and built to be disposable after a fairly short life. You are just throwing your money away if you buy one of those. Check this out th-cam.com/video/4786N7NUXwo/w-d-xo.html 1956 Chevy, one year newer than mine. 68 years old. This car seems to have all its original body panels, and most of its original mechanical parts, including not only the original engine, but the original carburetor. And it is still running just fine. For all those who say older cars don't last.
Most CVT do not have dipstick and there is a surgeon procedure including temperatures you have to do it at when refilling the CVT not super hard or difficult just fiddly@@thomasa5619
My FG mk2 had a leak in the ZF oil pan gasket at 150 000km. As I had to drain the oil anyway to replace the gasket, it was "might as well change the oil and filter while I am here" got about 6 1/2 litres of oil to drain out. Probably not all of the oil, but hopefully better than nothing.
I'm a tech who works for a multi franchise dealership, two of the brands I work on are Nissan and Suzuki, Nissan don't have a set interval but they do have a cumulative oil degradation counter which takes into account driving style/kilometers and so on. I'm yet to see one reach the target number and I've seen plenty of high kay Jatcos. (yes they can do 200,000 kays) but certainly do get the oil in any auto/CVT transmission changed.
Here in the States, Ford built an entire plant in Batavia Ohio to produce CVT transmissions back in 2000s. They produced CVT transmissions for 3 years and shut the plant down. These transmissions required fluid changes every 30,000 mi and the fluid itself cost over $500 just for the fluid. Needless to say these transmissions were highly failure prone even with the correct and proper service at the correct intervals they still failed. Just an observation here. I've noticed with Ford motor company, if they have a bad product such as a transmission engine etc they will produce it for 3 years and then stop. So if you have a vehicle such as a 6.0 diesel that was produced for 3 years that discontinued get rid of that vehicle while it's still runs! 😲
Yet they kept producing countless 'improved' variants of the 1.8 liter Diesel engine and even introduced the latest 'improvement', the wet timing belt, into various other engine models. Come to think of it, maybe each new version of the 1.8D was introduced 3 years after the previous one...
If you trust the sales line "Lifetime fluid, no need to change it" You will be in debt later replacing it! CVT madly sheds metallic dust into the oil as you drive becoming a sludge which cannot get into the high speed needle bearing up top. P.T. Barnum created the tagline "There's a sucker born every minute" and you are if you leave the factory oil untouched in any transmission.
I have a 2023 Subaru Outback XT with CVT. In the maintenance schedule, the CVT fluid is to be replaced at 90000kms unless used in harsh conditions, including stop/start traffic, then its 45000kms.
I did my CVT service on 2010 Jeep Patriot in the US of A after limp mode and did engine mounts at same time. There’s a filter that also needs changed at same time on top of transmission that requires the same disassembly to change the rear mount. Get them all at same time
Interesting fact, Jatco has been around since the early 1970s. They were the 3-speed auto in early Mazda rotarys RX-2, 3, 4 and 5. The trans is model 3N71B and as a basic 3 speed with no lockup or electronics (think of an asian Borg Warner 35) and were pretty indestructible. I've never seen one with slipping gears or stopped working unless an ATF leak out from a busted hose. I'm sure they are junk now but at one point they made a decent long lasting product.
Make sure to find a mechanic who knows EXACTLTY how to service the CVT you have. It may not be obvious to someone not familiar with the transmission which is the drain plug and which is the fill plug. As mentioned, use the correct oil called for the transmission.
I worked on a few CVTs from a well known Japanese brand, not JATCO. These types had a starter clutch to initiate moving which then over ran as speed built and it switched to the sheave pulleys. Without fail, as 10.000 miles was getting close they would start juddering in a rhythmic cycling on acceleration. The special fluid at that point was beginning to show signs of discolouration and had a particular metallic smell. A change to new oem spec fluid by the manufacturer solved the judder until that would also suffer the same situation in another 8 to 10,000 miles and the cycle repeated itself. Sealed for life,, yeah,, I don't see it.
A big part of extending oil change intervals from manufacturers is based on enviromental regulations, it's a big plus from them if they don't have to change the oil in a component for a significant period of time. I've often noticed that sealed for life components do have a change interval noted, but it's usually at some stupid time frame that does ensure it fails long before its potential life span. But it you want decent life then early changes are a must, 50-75,000kms is a good start. In oil wear particles breed wear particles so a drain flushes those out and keeps the wear rates low. Also worth considering that auto transmissions and CVTs have a torque converter and a significant portion of oil cannot be drained from them so regular oil changes ive found works great in minimising oil contamination. Yeah I'm one of those weirdos that actually checks oil condition with oil analysis, but you need to know what your looking at to make it worth the effort (helps that I do that sort of stuff for a job)
When I hear the word jatco I here the words plenty of X-Trails a pathfinders breaking down. At one point they were most unreliable transmission on the market. Then I here the words Nissan owning part of jatco or something like that. Then I really feel fear for those who own those particular vehicles. I do hope jatco have improved their reliability issues. I can't help to say that not a big fan of cvt transmissions I'd rather a manual. Even more so for long distance driving. Nice work John great video.
My 2009 X-Trail CVT died at 185,000kms... Quote to replace was $9k+ from Nissan. Nissan didn't want a bar of it from a goodwill perspective. Never again getting a CVT...
My son in law bought a new Subaru Outback with the CVT. I went online to check out real world performance figures of the vehicle and I got a shock re the CVT life expectancy! You’re really lucky to get 100 k out of it! I went to several sites and many came up with the same info. Haven’t dared tell the son in law. Keeping our fingers crossed in case he’s going to be one of the luckier ones!
It is rare for Subaru CVTs to fail mechanically. The most common failure is the torque converter solenoid and even that seems to be uncommon in SK models. Dealers will only replace the entire valve body which costs about $1k + labour, but individual solenoids are available online for less than $100.
Check the condition of the oil means send a sample for laboratory analysis. Thing is most people don't know about such services and in any case it is probably cheaper just to replace the oil. Reason many service places will not touch such transmissions is when fresh oil is introduced you can get slipping of the transmission due to new oil being thinner and no longer having metal particles in it then they get blamed for the transmission going wrong.
Yes, that's pretty much what Subaru dealerships charge..... that's 2 fluid drain & fills (but no filter replacement). Don't use a cheap/different CVT fluid because U will never get 100% of the fluid out (10.5 litres) & they don't work well with each other
I do a drain and fill (3 quarts) either every oil change or every other oil change ... which I do every 3000-5000 miles. Rotate the tires every other change. It is called preventative maintenance for a reason. Big companies shut down lines for hours on a regular basis just to clean up inside the machines because it makes a positive difference in long term productivity. Using your parking brake while in neutral to put the load of the car resting on the brakes instead of any part of the drive train (parking tang, trans, diff, engine) whether auto or manual. Brakes are designed to hold the weight of the car for any length of time; the other parts I presume not so much. Now I had a family member say to turn the a/c off before turning the car off; I don't know if that is a myth or it was for older cars (I think the advice was from the 80s or 90s); no idea if there is any merit to it or ever was. Thanks for another video to help people take better care of their vehicular investment.
For those who want a bit more ... the procedure from Honda for changing the fluid when there is an issue (ex: starter clutch stutter) ... drain and fill, run it, drain and fill, run it, drain and fill, run it, drain and fill. Because you are only changing out a portion of the fluid (hence why I will change out 3qts every 3-6000 miles). There is an in-line filter and a in pan filter to remember to change every 30-60000 miles.
Our suzuki swift 2017 running a CVT starting shuddering at about 150k , grabbed a kit online with both filters and sump gasket for $80 and replaced the Oil . Now shes like brand new again, wasnt difficult but you need to ensure you get the correct oil. This is our third swift but first CVT and won't be leaving it that long again before an oil change , Suzuki owners manual doesn't schedule it at all for the CVT even under severe driving, but recommends 40k changes for the manual transmission and 20k changes for the conventional auto . They sure have some unjustified confidence in the CVT.
Lexus tried several times to get me to not service the auto transmission in my car at 90,000km, even though it wasn't even a sealed transmission and is on the city maintenance schedule. They were going against the advice of the car's own factory service recommendations.
Sealed for life until you pay $5000 is how they all see this. Age and mileage are arbitrary, it will fail if you don't service at some point. Auctions are littered with dead CVTs. Car Wizard did a video on a CVT service on his 2013 Nissan Cube back in 2020. Even after 20,000 miles (32k km) the NS2 transmission fluid was black and filthy and full of metallic debris instead of its normal green. Jatco gearboxes are the worst offenders here. BMW once put Jatco torque converters in Japan/SE Asia only E36s and thought they were patently unreliable, so they never used them again. BMW were also one of the first to do "Sealed for life" transmission oil and on their GM 4L30 autos that was 90,000km transmission failures (mum's 1994 318i) unless it detonated earlier along with its engine (my 1994 318i), which says it all if they thought Jatco were unreliable.
Love the accurate information you post I watch pretty much all ur post. I think I can offer or at least build upon your info. I got my 2nd paid job the first being a dishwasher in a restaurant I decided to find a job in the auto repair field in 1986 and consequently started working in a transmission shop full time. Over the years my experience grew. Today I can Say with all confident observation I KNOW ALL MOST NOTHING.however after 30 years of paid experience in the Auto service and repair including frame and body repair.I still have the passion evan today. And I can chime in with a bit of info. Early Stalantis C V T service intervals were every year roughly 12 to 15 thousand miles understand these gearbox's were not ready for mass deployment at all 10 years later here we are. I strongly suggest no more than 20,000 Miles between C V T SERVICE INTERVALS. AND something else to consider that if the engine ever gets above operational Temp blows a hose loose a serpentine belt whatever happens and this is important to understand that the trans cooler is in the radiator.C V T oil gets above temp and generally this is the beginning of most C V T failures. Personally I won't own a car newer than 2012 and another 10 years of research and development or at least 5.before they install these C V Ts in the rest of the light duty cars that don't get taken care of like they should I AM SPEAKING TO THE SERVICE ADVISERS YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.stay true to your car and it will be more reliable.
And yes there were many times while working in a dealership service department that I would of truly wished to get to talk with the vehicle owner that it was frowned upon and in some situations absolutely impossible if I wanted to keep my job
It's always been about fluids. Change them all including diff oil, bearing grease, coolant (use toyota red) etc.. at double the recommended frequency and you'll more than double the lifespan of your vehicle.
Had mine flushed and refilled at 80K from new, and it did make a difference to how the transmission worked.... it's better. I will get it done every 50K now... not cheap, about $400 (mostly materials), but new CVT is a lot more than that. The car has done over 100K now and still working normally...
You should even change the oil in your EV, even though manufacturers pretend that they don't have any. And in every trans in general... my manufacturer says 12 year transmission interval, which kinda translates to don't even bother, so I did it after 6 years.
My car has a strict service requirement of changing the CVT fluid and filter every 45 000 km. Every third service. I am impressed by that. The warranty extends to 150 000 km. They obviously do not want too foot the bill for a new transmission while the repair expenses would be for their account! I won't divulge the brand name as I don't believe John thinks much of them 😂 Unless somebody would like to guess.
If a car has a JATCO CVT transmission, don't touch it with a barge pole. However, if you've already made the mistake of buying such a car, the transmission fluid needs to be changed regularly. Preferably at 30,000km or less for light-duty driving (and even less if you drive hard or tow with it). Two or three hundred dollars every couple of years to keep the transmission working properly is a lot cheaper than ten grand for a transmission replacement every 100,000km to 150,000km.
I change my CVT oil from my Toyota iQ. At about 75.000 km's. The oil defenitivly had a bad colour and a bad smell. I used it as a puller of a trailer. So it was used a lot.
I change my r52 pathfinder cvt oil 30,000km I do it through the dealership think it's about $600 with filters and 8L of oil. It's good on feul 10.5L/100km but it's not very responsive compared to a standard automatic transmission. It has 170,000km and still seems ok
I used to operate a milling machine that had a type of CVT gearbox. For the life of me, the only explanation of why it was on the machine was that it was cheap. Possibly why they put them in cars.
There is a good transmission specialist in Artarmon, in the industrial part, near Bunnings and all panel beater/service shops. Can't remember the name but i think he was recommend to me by the guy below: Lambs Road Auto - best local mechanic I found in the area - honest and reasonably priced. I used their services for few years and would still use them, if not the fact that I moved out of the area.
Never been a fan of cvt boxes ever since Ford introduced what they called the ctx on the Mk2 Fiesta in Europe. The throttle pedal was more of a volume control than an accelerator and we used to spend a lot of time converting these cars to manual boxes. They had a tendency to suffer a failure such that when putting them into drive they used to leap forward. This caught one of my customers out and the car went through his garage door at a good rate of knots.
If you want to find the lifetime of a part, material, or statement, look in the warranty. If for example, the warranty is for 60k miles, then that's the lifetime. If you don't change the oil of a "sealed for lifetime" transmission, then the manufacturer can only guarantee 60k miles.
IMHO, most car manufacturers are worried about the first customer (which is the one who actually buys the car from them), and they have all the stats about how long owners keep their cars on average (before selling them). On top of this, renting companies account for more than 50% of many manufacturers sales, which further enforces the fact that most buyers won’t keep their cars for 6, 8 or more years. In practical terms, this means that manufacturers know that they don’t have to “worry” too much about what happens to the car after that period, since the warranty is over, and if the car fails from a poor design or schedule service interval by the manufacturer, most second hand buyers will blame the previous owner for treating the car poorly, even if that’s not the case. This is plain to see just by opening the hood of most cars and comparing them with much older models from the same manufacturer (from Mercedes to Toyota). They’re full of plastic parts on key components, from the cooling system to the fuel and lubrication systems, despite all the immense and intense heat cycles that those parts are subjected to. Making cars lighter is certainly an important fact on these decisions, but I’d argue that those weight savings could be achieved on other components, many of which wouldn’t have such catastrophic engine failure modes. On top of this, some questionable savings are also made inside the engine and/or gearbox (often in the name of fuel efficiency), making them much more demanding on all fluids. As if this wasn’t enough, marketing people know that both renting companies and final consumers like to hear about less scheduled maintenance, and that has also become a strong selling point. So if you’re that customer who will certainly trade your car after 3 years and won’t own it after the warranty expires, following the schedule maintenance is all you need to do, as the warranty should cover any eventual problem. But if you’re planning to keep it for much longer than that (as many private owners will), take the manufacturer recommendations as the very limit of what you can do, but do it way sooner, and certainly don’t fall for that whole “sealed for life” BS! In a way, engines could also be “sealed for life”, since you can keep the same oil until the engine dies. It will certainly die way sooner than it should, but you didn’t need to change the oil while it lasted! 😁 Those fluids will all be replaced after an engine or gearbox rebuild, that for sure! 😁
I have a Nissan Terra, which is an SUV in Asia. It’s diesel diesel. I change the oil about every 12,000 km where filter and they’re telling me they want to drain and refill the transmission oil at 85,000 km from my limited experience with transmissions in the USA it’s generally not advisable to fiddle with the transmission fluid what is your educated opinion if you’re willing to tell me thank you so much I really enjoy your channel and especially your great sense of humor. Thank you very much. It’s quite refreshing.
Yes, that is painful to comprehend, but apprentices need to be trained to become tradesman. Also remember that simple servicing of vehicles is batshit simple and most unskilled people can perform. Young apprentices start with the very basics like shop keeping and work their way up. Apprentices are not generally thrown into the fat and perform all the servicing and diagnosing of complex conditions. A good workshop will oversee the apprentice and train and give suitable jobs fit for them at their level of competency. You get a third- or fourth-year apprentice, and they are extremely valuable in the simple to relatively technical side of things for that workshop and in some cases are almost as good. Particularly if he stays with that workshop and gains that specialty dealer brand insider knowledge. If a job is done and done well, then it doesn't matter if 15- or 16-year-old hands do the job or a 55-year-old pair of hands You have to remember that the hourly rates are what they are partly because of having to train apprentices. No training means no decent tradesman in later years. Youd be the first one to complain when there is no new people to replace the older and the older puts their rates through the roof because he probably could and would.
@@ScatManAust the rates are what they are because of the fancy buildings dealerships feel they need to provide among other expenses passed on to customers. I've been part of a dealership, I know some of the shady innerworkings in the front of the house and that attitude gets passed down through the service department onto the customer. Not all dealerships are shady; so try not to go in with either a chip on your shoulder nor oblivious to that fact you are prey to some no matter what department you are visiting.
@@zakuraayame5091 Yes you are quite right with the buildings and other infrastructure causing inflated rates at stealerships. I also was not referring wholly n solely to just the motor industry. Tradesman and apprentices in auto industry is only a fraction mechanics and other trades people in all other aspects of industries. Try get your shitter fixed and see how much it costs you.
Now do a video on direct injection carbonization. My 2019 subaru Forester just had its inlet manifold replaced under warranty because of carbon build up. 40,000 km's only.
Drive on the freeway for 1 hour once a week & use premium fuel. 40k kilometres in 5 yrs sounds like a lot of short trips/traffic driving which causes carbon build up
I always had the view that given most brand-new cars are sold on a fleet type basis to state government local government private companies etc etc…. the reason for things like sealed for life transmissions is because it lowers the pricing quoted for the service scheduling and it keeps the bean counters pacified and more comfortable to buy the car that has a lower servicing cost Same kind of thing for 15,000 km oil changes instead of 10,000 km…….. And if its fleet after four years or so, they flip them anyway……. So I always thought it was just bean counters….. I even read somewhere once that they use smaller screw on engine oil filters to save a few hundred mils of engine oil so the engine overall takes less and shaves a buck or two off the oil fill cost…… What I read made it sound like pennypinching - and that was it really…..
My ride on has a sealed transmission. 20 years on and no issue. In discussion the other day with some associated people and all said the CVT transmission was the best for driving - except those who haven't owned one. My CVT is so much better than the one of 10 years ago. No drone, some noise on full acceleration but less intrusive than kickdown.
You do need to service the CVT box also the Aisin auto box made by Toyota which is in lots of transfer engine cars,the service manual says sealed for life,you need to change the ATF at 40 grand and therafter or you can fork out loads of cash for another auto box to be fitted.
Sorry diffrernt subject -As an expert John, can you tell me how often an engine oil filter goes into bypas, without being clogged - watching "i do cars" videos, often debris have got up to valve gear even theough filter not blocked ?
I've got mine booked in for Monday. I noticed a cooking smell 6 months ago and the car is sluggish on a cool morning so it's time to get the full check done (125k km)
@@soundknightOil and filter change transformed our shuddering swift CVT at 150k , I thought but was done but she lives in at 180k, 50k oil changes now.
Hi John, mostly agree with you, sometimes don't. But, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. I have been around the motor trade one way and another for all of my 70 years. Dad was a diesel mechanic. Regarding dealer servicing, I have a 2018 Hyundai i30 (bought new) and a 2003 Mazda 323 (bought new) sitting in my driveway; guess who drives the Mazda after 40 years of company cars. I have found my local Hyundai dealer very fair with their service costs, and always advise on items like brakes, tyres and other major components. My experience with Mazda dealers has been mixed. I have recently found a dealer whose service advisor is very experienced with no bullshit (a woman, no less). Obviously with fixed price servicing now, dealers are looking for ways to pick up margin. However, I only take the Mazda to a dealer for annual servicing. I just had the radiator replace for less than a third of the cost quoted by the dealer. Why? Got the wrong service advisor on the day. So, yes, I agree with you regarding major replacement items outside warranty, but it doesn't hurt to have a car seen by a dealer every so often. By the way, hate driving CVT's!
The sealed for life thing has been going on for ages. The btr auto gearbox in my 2003 falcon ute is, according to ford, supposed to be"sealed for life". Has 450000km on it and has had the oil changed more times then i can remember.
The XH Falcon so EL and probably EF had the same thing in the mid 90s. Hardly sealed, other than not having a refill place for the average user to keep topped up.
@@stephenw2992 au ba and bf were like that too. No dipstick ya had to jack the old girls up and stick yer finger in the fill hole to check the level. The owners manual for my ba literally says there is no reason to change the oil unless you're a taxi or a cop car lol.
I've seen a lot of Nissan CVT failures (I've got a customer scheduled for tomorrow morning with one, in fact!), and typically what I'm seeing is failure of the drive or driven cone piston O-ring, and in every single one of those failures, the O-ring was brittle, as seals tend to become in high heat environments. Much like an engine developing oil leaks due to seal hardening with extended oil change intervals, these CVTs eat themselves internally if the fluid is not changed regularly. This is why the failure rate is so high, and so predictable on these transmissions. Whatever the seal material they used is, it's inadequate for the application. 30,000miles/50,000kms seems to be the sweet spot for fluid changes on these magical cupcakes. And please, for the love of god, do not use high-ester (seal bloat/stop leak) products on these in an attempt to address neglect. It will not end well...
For checking the condition of a fluid, I don't know what Australia has for industry, but we over here in 'Murica have a couple of companies (one of which I use regularly called Blackstone Laboratories) who test all kinds of lubricants (if it rolls, floats, or flies, they have a test for it) for an IMHO very reasonable $35USD starting price. Every vehicle I own has had at least its oil, transmission, transfer case, and differential fluid (as applicable) tested at least once to get an idea of the condition of the really expensive internal bits. I'm sure you guys have similar businesses.
@@kelvinwood6641 If it has a dipstick or a fill hole, you can pull a sample without draining. Getting a sample checked, even if you're changing it anyways, can tell you the condition of the fluid, and if anything evil is showing up. I've had a couple sample reports come back that confirmed my suspicions on age of fluid (i.e: OE fills), and point to a possible reason for symptoms on one transmission. (WAY too long in the tranny, high particulate and contamination levels, indicating that a clogged shift solenoid is a very likely reason one of my jeeps won't lock up the converter currently. it was bought used, and still had factory fill at 136k mies.)
If I were to factor about 4 cvt fluid replacements into the cost of ownership of a vehicle, it's small change. Clean oil cannot be bad for any machinery, fluids in vehicles are consumables and not replacing them is just so much more costly in terms of failures as well as unsafe. Last week we had a customer ask us: How long does our product last? The answer is: It is up to the customer how long they want it to last, as mean time to failure is determined almost exclusively by factors beyond the control of the manufacturer. The product meats a performance and quality expectation, but needs to be used within best practice parameters. There are things one can do to make the product perform and last as long as possible, and it actually does not increase the cost of ownership over the lifespan of the product. A new cvt costs 10-20 times as much as a fluid change, I know which one I would rather pay for. Like I say about some advice: Just because someone speaks does not mean you have to listen. And I feel that way about the oem advice on this matter, just change the oil and thus keep it clean.
@JohnSmith-pl2bk I even told them when I booked 2wks in advance. That I wanted this done. I also recently put new tyres on before the service and I had them on the front (f w drive).and after I picked it up I noticed they rotated my tyres but had one new on the front and one of the back ones that was old. I just shook my head idk maybe it was busy and old mate was just running on auto pilot.
@@Dr3w2020 Rotating the tyres means swapping back and front, not literally moving them from corner to corner in a clockwise direction. I wouldnt be going back there.
When I got my 2007 altima the trans was starting to fail at 120,000km. I changed transmission oil and made sure the little screen filter at the pump inlet was clean. If it isn't the pump will not produce sufficient pressure. I continued to put on over 200,000km after the oil change and it still had fantastic torque. I'd probably still be driving it if not for other issues.
Interesting dissertation John, I have owned an old Chamberlain tractor for 45 years with a multi- plate clutch driving the power take off, it requires special oil which I now buy from John Deere. I suppose that the shear forces are similar to CVT transmissions. My use is quite violent for about 25 hours a year, the clutch that is. Have only replaced it twice so far.
Suggest someone do some testing on these trans types with nano particle Hexagonal Boron Nitride suspended in the oil. Nano HBN is a high wear resistant particle that has the capacity to heal some of the wear damage on metal surfaces.
I have a Audi A6 with a ZF gearbox. I called the Audi dealer for a gearbox service and they replied that it is "sealed for life" and they will not service it. Meanwhile ZF, the gearbox manufacturer sells the kit for the gearbox service and has recomended service intervals. I did get it serviced at an independent mechanic and running smooth ever since.
Last year I had my first paid service booked for my new Pajero Sport at the local dealer, and they said they wouldn't look into a sound coming from a wheel and wanted me to book in a separate diagnostic session two months away. I cancelled it and broke my "10 year warranty" and let my usual mechanic look it. And yes, the person who did the job is more than happy to have a chat to me about it. I cannot imagine how rushed the dealer mechanics must be in the service and just ignore everything else? Or do they just say "There's a noise, sorry can't tell you what it is or if you should even keep driving it" Mechanics in the area reckon many of the dealer service centres have one or two seniors managing a fleet of apprentices and newly qualified mechanics who do all the work and are told you have x minutes to do this job.
The LSD in my sons old EL Falcon let you know when the diff oil needed changing, it started clanging, [I thought it was something else until I read the manual].
For better or worse, I always serviced my 2012 Prius V at the Toyota dealership. When my query about changing the ATF was ignored, I asked two other local toyota dealership service depts but all I got was silence. Toyota will not change the ATF - which in my car is simply a drain and refill. I took it to a transmission specialist to get replaced. First change in 12 years (125K kms). Lesson learned. I won't leave that long next time.
The oem Honda stuff is red and ends up like thin flat coca cola after just 10 thousand miles so i change it at that. Thankfully its reasonably easy to do The fluid is pretty expensive though Not as a new cvt mind! My now defuct father bought it for my mum thinking it was like a heavy machine cvt as he worked in that field and he never took owt i said seriously and he was right to do that 95%of the time lol
The 2004 Honda Jazz/Fit has a neat little bung on the side of the trans which you undo.... this allows about 3.5 litres of trans fluid to pour out. Then you do the bung up and pour one Honda supplied and branded 3.5 litre jug of CVT fluid (NZ $109) into the dipstick hole (yeah the early 2000's had CVTs with dipsticks) and that exactly fills the trans to the right amount of fluid. If they chatter when taking off from stop the CVT is probably already screwed but Honda dealers throw 2 jugs in as a suck it and see..... You could run one jug for a year then do the same again...I think the CVT holds over 3 jugs when totally emptied.
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk my mums 2015 jazz has a dipstick for transmition. It's easy enough to change it yourself eh. I couldn't find any info about fluid change interval In the manual and the dealer service guy said 50 thou ? I change it every other year now which works out about 10 to 12 thousand miles. the old stuff still comes out looking like old flat coca cola and smells of burnt!
It's rather strange that all these eco advances (lithium batteries, small highly strung turbo engines, CVTs) cause the premature failure of components that are sufficiently expensive to potentially justify the premature scrapping of said car, thus negating the environmental benefit of doing it in the first place. I'm starting to wonder if having people who studied law make decisions that require an engineering background is perhaps not the best way forward.
Here’s the thing John. The CVT in a Subaru requires tear down to replace the filter. Also, as with any automatic transmission be it CVT or otherwise, a great deal of fluid is in the torque converter. So how much ground am I actually gaining by just draining the fluid in the pan and refilling? In my opinion, I am just running partially clean fluid through a dirty filter. Not an optimum service procedure.
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Oil needs to be changed regardless if its a CVT or an automatic. Biggest bull around from major manufacturers is the myth of permanently sealed transmissions, CVT or regular automatic.
The major car companies that profit from “sealed” transmissions, says to stop spreading information that is missed. Is that the same thing as “mis-information?”
😂
Please, include manual transmission, because even gearbox oil needs replacement. It is a long cycle, but a cycle nonetheless.
@@justpray365 . Yep . 30,000 km whether it " needs it or not " . Diffs too .
Oil needs to be changed ESPECIALLY in a CVT, as the whole principle is based on FRICTION and therefore the oil gets contaminated with tiny metal particles. The oil is also used to cool the CVT transmission, as with friction inevitably comes heat, meaning the oil also degrades.
Sealed for life = the length of the warranty
Exactly they don't mean their cars will be on the road in 40 years as classics.
I dunno, the BTR auto in the older model falcons are generally considered to be bulletproof, lol.
Sealed for as long as it lasts
A guy I worked with had an X-Trail with a CVT. It crapped its self when he was 1000km from home.
The mechanic that replaced the transmission suggested that there were 2 types of X-Trail CVT: Those that have died and those that are about to die.
I remember 2017-19 a lot of X trail on the road but now they are rare. They're kind of worthless after a few years.
X trails are dog shit
I'm glad that changing the CVT fluid in my ex's first gen Jazz is an easy DIY job. Sure it's painful being bent over on the genuine OEM Honda fluid that's required, but a few litres of fluid every couple of years is cheaper than a CVT rebuild. 19 years and 200k later, the CVT still works as good as can be expected for a car that's old enough to vote.
Amsoil C.v.t oil will exceed every oil on the market if you can get it your way.
Honda got 2 filter. small and big replace it every 50k km aka every fluid change.
I had 360,000km on my 06 Jazz, was still going strong when I sold it last year. 😆
Sealed for life: Also known as "If it breaks, throw it away and get another one"
Sealed until you have to open it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
They say the same bout other sealed units like the gearboxes on the old AU taxis, and the B series falcons for example. Keep them serviced at reasonable intervals and they'll last for life, literally
I worked for a Nissan dealer we never changed cvt oil . We just changed cvt's . Nissan cvt didn't last long enough to require an oil change .
😅
As an independent mechanic with my own shop in Melbourne
(this is my professional opinion)
There is no such thing as sealed for life all types of oil will degrade over time & so do eventually need to be renewed.
My recommendation is to change the oil at around 60,000kms-80,000kms
indeed. But as the excellent toyota shop mechanic who has channel called "the car care nut" says, i'ts sort a balance between changing relatively often but not too often, bcuz as trans ages, it needs a bit of the clutch powder in the fluid in order to keep worn clutch areas with enough friction to not slip and then burn out, etc. Do u agree or not?
Your opinion please. We have a 2003 Honda CRV with the 2.4i VTEC engine, used by my elderly mother for short local trips, total of 1800 km per year.
The CRV currently has 198,000 km on the odometer and we want to change the ATF - don't know the full history of the car. Was purchased end of 2013 with 175,000 on the clock. The CRV has had excellent reliability over the last 11 years of ownership and we've done the usual annual services using full synthetic oil.
I presume WE SHOULD NOT FLUSH THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION?
Your opinion and advice please.
@@Richard-sl8wepull the transmission dip stick and wipe some of that oil on a white piece of paper. If the oil is a nice red colour, then it's good. If it is brown or other colour, then change it.
@@18_rabbit yes I agree which is why I suggest to simply change the fluid & filter, as you are only ever replacing approximately 40%-45% of the existing fluid during a transmission fluid change. Never ever use a flushing machine as this has the potential to cause damage in many cases where you have higher mileage.
Sometimes if it has done 150,000ks + I would just leave it alone as some of the older transmissions work better with dirty fluid since it has more friction. New fluid can cause a lot of slippage which a well worn transmission could be more harmful.
@@18_rabbit I disagree with the CCN on this matter. It's my opinion that transmission failures soon after fluid replacement have nothing to do with the fluid replacement and everything to do with the vehicle's owner neglecting the transmission until it shows signs of failure. At this time, the fluid is inspected and found to be unserviceable, whereby it is then replaced. However, the failing transmission is beyond help at this point and it fails soon after. Owners and mechanics then mistakenly conclude that the fluid change caused the impending failure.
An accredited independent motor mechanic is worth his weight in gold.
That's roughly $10,000,000 in todays gold prices
I made the mistake of allowing my wife to buy a CVT Nissan Kicks. No problems so far at $65k MILES. I’m one who also does not believe in ‘sealed for life’, so EVERY oil change (4-5k miles) I drain about one gallon of CVT fluid and replace it with fresh fluid. I have to say that every time I really don’t like the color. I think my next oil change will include a full pan removal and filter check to see how things are doing. I also have a regular-automatic Nissan Versa (my wife’s old car), that I still drive after 230,000 miles- and I did the same thing on this one up until about a year ago- draining about one gallon of trans fluid every oil change. I think this is a good way to ensure long life.
The best c.v.t transmission oil is actually made by Amsoil in Superior Michigan.
If the 5,000 mile service interval is something you're comfortable with financially and with the extra effort involved, then by all means, keep it up! If you'd like to reduce servicing time/cost, 30,000 miles is the sweet spot for servicing these CVTs. I'm a former mobile mechanic turned mobile programmer/diagnostics tech, and I see about one of these a month (I have a 16 Rogue scheduled for tomorrow that just got a new trans, in fact!), and I've gotten to tear down several failed units. Every failure I've seen has been the result of internal seal hardening; worn fluid losing its anti-oxidation properties, plus heat, and voila, fluid bypassing a seal makes your drive and driven cones move at different rates, snapping the belt. :)
They need double the maintenance then automatic. Filter and fluid change every 50k km / 30k miles. I'm lazy to do all the job and don't want to pay just buy older Honda that use 5 speed.
I am not even bother going to watch this because the title should read: "Should you change the oil in a sealed system?" - The answer is yes. Yes you should
Or better yet don't get vehicles with them in the first place.
I know the range of non CVT vehicles is getting smaller by the day, but the fragility of the transmission is not an additional worry I need.
Thanks for your clip John.
Just last week we asked our local Subaru dealership to change the oil of our 01/2020 Subaru Liberty CVT during the 75,000km service.
Subaru dealership charged us $400 for changing the CVT oil alone. Thankfully the old oil sample looked clean.
Interestingly, they quoted us $1100 to change the CVT oil and internal filter would require dropping the transmission sump and gasket reseal.
These Subaru dealerships know how to fleece your wallet
I kept on getting fobbed off by Subaru, saying that it wasn’t required etc for my wife’s outback (2016) - ended up changing it at fluiddrive for $600 for all filter and oil at 200k, driving much better now
This is the reason why I don’t buy new or newish vehicles because I can work on my own vehicles. I change my own oil for around $100 that’s engine oil. Probably the oil for cvt’s would cost an arm and a leg per litre.
And that's why I have only ever owned one Subaru.
I have done my own Subaru transmission CVT oil change.
The filter gaskets+oil isn't cheap.
Your $800 quote isn't bad if you account for $100 per hour for your mechanic
The Car Wizard channel did a video on changing the fluid in a CVT. He mentioned how bad it smelled after relatively low mileage, which raises questions about the chemistry used in the fluid to make a CVT functional.
Comes down to what my dad said when they tried this “who’s life?” When pushed they wouldn’t answer so he passed. He was going to get 6 cars and passed immediately (fleet) always service these “lifetime fluids”
I have a 2015 BMW 328. BMW says trans is sealed for life. As a former mechanic I know better. I contacted the actual manufacturer of the transmission (ZF) in Germany. Not only did they tell me that the trans must be serviced at regular intervals, they even provided me with a PDF on how to perform the procedure should I want to do it myself. Regarding CVT's, Subaru advises changing the CVT fluid every ~35k miles, so at least there's one manufacturer that doesn't preach that "sealed for life" nonsense.
A mate had one of the last xr6 falcons and the auto was a simmialr deal, the stealership said 'sealed for life' but the gearbox manufacturer said every 80000kms
FWIW: I bought an Olight 6 or 7 years ago, and keep it charged by the front door with that magnetic charger for nighttime doggie walks. It's by far the best flashlight I've ever had. I've dropped it on concrete a couple of times, and it just keeps working.They are expensive, yes, but worth it. "Buy once, cry once". (Note: My experience is limited, as I've only been on the planet for a short 73 years.)
I’ve beat the daylights out of my olight - dropping it, throwing it to someone who couldn’t catch it and it smashed into the ground, having it fall out of my pocket in the yard and losing track it for 2 weeks, and on and on. It’s still with me everyday and works fine.
Convoy flashlights are 1/3 price with the same (sometimes better) quality, they sell replacement parts that would service Olights also
I haven't even watched the video yet, Yes you should change the fluid on a CVT, In fact you should change the fluid on any sealed transmission.
I make a habbit of getting my transmission and diff serviced every 5 services (50k) - by a reputable transmission specialist. Highly worthwhile.
Me too…
thank you John for the information and suggestions.
John mentions oil changes using a 4L from super cheap auto, what you need to be mindful of, doing a DIY transmission oil change, is gearboxes have filters. Those filters should be changed along with the oil (hence I take mine to a transmission specialist) - a good way to see if your local place is decent, see if their a member of the transmission rebuilders association Australia.
@@jamesaustralian9829 yes mine goes to the specialist 👍
What about something with factory rear and centre locks ?
Fun fact; “good for the lifetime of the vehicle” is defined by auto makers as “until the warranty runs out”. You’re supposed to be a good consumer and buy a new one before then.
In 2011 we bought a new G6E Falcon and I asked to see under the bonnet. The dealer was surprised as “nobody asks to see under there anymore these days”. I asked where the dipstick was for the ZF auto in it. The service manager told us “it doesn’t need one, the fluid is good for the life of the car”.
Is it now…🙄
CVT’s are even worse than a “normal” automatic. The advice from mechanics is to change the fluid every 25-30,000km as it faces much more wear than a normal automatic.
Not a mechanic, but I thought it was relatively common for gearboxes to lack dipsticks? Generally you drain from one port and fill to the bottom thread of the fill port
That’s what I did recently when I changed the oil in my lil 4 banger FWD shtbox…
I am a retired mechanic with 37 years experience. Newer vehicles do have a "lifetime" because it very quickly becomes impossible to fix them due to cost and a lack of parts. However, older vehicles don't have a lifetime, unless they are wrecked or rusted away. They can be kept going literally forever just by replacing parts. I have a 1955 Chevy that is still in near perfect condition. Obviously it is not completely original. In fact, pretty much all of its mechanical parts have been replaced, several have been replaced many times. Some of its body parts have been replaced. So it is not really the "original car" But it still looks and runs the same, or better. And unless something catastrophic happens to it, it can be kept going indefinitely. You can, in fact, build a 1955 Chevy out of parts catalogs, without using a single GM part. New cars are designed and built to be disposable after a fairly short life. You are just throwing your money away if you buy one of those.
Check this out th-cam.com/video/4786N7NUXwo/w-d-xo.html 1956 Chevy, one year newer than mine. 68 years old. This car seems to have all its original body panels, and most of its original mechanical parts, including not only the original engine, but the original carburetor. And it is still running just fine. For all those who say older cars don't last.
Most CVT do not have dipstick and there is a surgeon procedure including temperatures you have to do it at when refilling the CVT not super hard or difficult just fiddly@@thomasa5619
My FG mk2 had a leak in the ZF oil pan gasket at 150 000km. As I had to drain the oil anyway to replace the gasket, it was "might as well change the oil and filter while I am here" got about 6 1/2 litres of oil to drain out. Probably not all of the oil, but hopefully better than nothing.
Ford did away with trans dipsticks long before FG.
The life of the gearbox. A self fulfilling prophecy.
I'm a tech who works for a multi franchise dealership, two of the brands I work on are Nissan and Suzuki, Nissan don't have a set interval but they do have a cumulative oil degradation counter which takes into account driving style/kilometers and so on. I'm yet to see one reach the target number and I've seen plenty of high kay Jatcos. (yes they can do 200,000 kays)
but certainly do get the oil in any auto/CVT transmission changed.
Here in the States, Ford built an entire plant in Batavia Ohio to produce CVT transmissions back in 2000s. They produced CVT transmissions for 3 years and shut the plant down. These transmissions required fluid changes every 30,000 mi and the fluid itself cost over $500 just for the fluid. Needless to say these transmissions were highly failure prone even with the correct and proper service at the correct intervals they still failed. Just an observation here. I've noticed with Ford motor company, if they have a bad product such as a transmission engine etc they will produce it for 3 years and then stop. So if you have a vehicle such as a 6.0 diesel that was produced for 3 years that discontinued get rid of that vehicle while it's still runs! 😲
Yet they kept producing countless 'improved' variants of the 1.8 liter Diesel engine and even introduced the latest 'improvement', the wet timing belt, into various other engine models. Come to think of it, maybe each new version of the 1.8D was introduced 3 years after the previous one...
If you trust the sales line
"Lifetime fluid, no need to change it"
You will be in debt later replacing it!
CVT madly sheds metallic dust into the oil as you drive becoming a sludge which cannot get into the high speed needle bearing up top.
P.T. Barnum created the tagline
"There's a sucker born every minute" and you are if you leave the factory oil untouched in any transmission.
I have a 2023 Subaru Outback XT with CVT. In the maintenance schedule, the CVT fluid is to be replaced at 90000kms unless used in harsh conditions, including stop/start traffic, then its 45000kms.
I did my CVT service on 2010 Jeep Patriot in the US of A after limp mode and did engine mounts at same time. There’s a filter that also needs changed at same time on top of transmission that requires the same disassembly to change the rear mount. Get them all at same time
Interesting fact, Jatco has been around since the early 1970s. They were the 3-speed auto in early Mazda rotarys RX-2, 3, 4 and 5. The trans is model 3N71B and as a basic 3 speed with no lockup or electronics (think of an asian Borg Warner 35) and were pretty indestructible. I've never seen one with slipping gears or stopped working unless an ATF leak out from a busted hose. I'm sure they are junk now but at one point they made a decent long lasting product.
Make sure to find a mechanic who knows EXACTLTY how to service the CVT you have. It may not be obvious to someone not familiar with the transmission which is the drain plug and which is the fill plug. As mentioned, use the correct oil called for the transmission.
This video brought a glimmer in the eyes of Sol from his bed in the retirement village.
Thank you.
R Sol, Oils ain't Oil, Sol Get it Right. SOme of the best ads on TV when I was growing up.
Yes, I remember. Sol and I are in the same dementia ward, after hours...
@@AutoExpertJC Visiting a lady there?
I worked on a few CVTs from a well known Japanese brand, not JATCO. These types had a starter clutch to initiate moving which then over ran as speed built and it switched to the sheave pulleys. Without fail, as 10.000 miles was getting close they would start juddering in a rhythmic cycling on acceleration. The special fluid at that point was beginning to show signs of discolouration and had a particular metallic smell. A change to new oem spec fluid by the manufacturer solved the judder until that would also suffer the same situation in another 8 to 10,000 miles and the cycle repeated itself. Sealed for life,, yeah,, I don't see it.
A big part of extending oil change intervals from manufacturers is based on enviromental regulations, it's a big plus from them if they don't have to change the oil in a component for a significant period of time. I've often noticed that sealed for life components do have a change interval noted, but it's usually at some stupid time frame that does ensure it fails long before its potential life span. But it you want decent life then early changes are a must, 50-75,000kms is a good start. In oil wear particles breed wear particles so a drain flushes those out and keeps the wear rates low. Also worth considering that auto transmissions and CVTs have a torque converter and a significant portion of oil cannot be drained from them so regular oil changes ive found works great in minimising oil contamination. Yeah I'm one of those weirdos that actually checks oil condition with oil analysis, but you need to know what your looking at to make it worth the effort (helps that I do that sort of stuff for a job)
When I hear the word jatco I here the words plenty of X-Trails a pathfinders breaking down. At one point they were most unreliable transmission on the market. Then I here the words Nissan owning part of jatco or something like that. Then I really feel fear for those who own those particular vehicles.
I do hope jatco have improved their reliability issues.
I can't help to say that not a big fan of cvt transmissions I'd rather a manual. Even more so for long distance driving.
Nice work John great video.
My sister in law had one. No issue, Nissan replaced the transmission for free and it was out of warranty.
@@rovert1284 she was lucky
My 2009 X-Trail CVT died at 185,000kms... Quote to replace was $9k+ from Nissan. Nissan didn't want a bar of it from a goodwill perspective. Never again getting a CVT...
My son in law bought a new Subaru Outback with the CVT. I went online to check out real world performance figures of the vehicle and I got a shock re the CVT life expectancy! You’re really lucky to get 100 k out of it! I went to several sites and many came up with the same info. Haven’t dared tell the son in law. Keeping our fingers crossed in case he’s going to be one of the luckier ones!
It is rare for Subaru CVTs to fail mechanically. The most common failure is the torque converter solenoid and even that seems to be uncommon in SK models. Dealers will only replace the entire valve body which costs about $1k + labour, but individual solenoids are available online for less than $100.
If something that is sealed for life doesn’t come with a lifetime warranty. It is not sealed for life.
Check the condition of the oil means send a sample for laboratory analysis. Thing is most people don't know about such services and in any case it is probably cheaper just to replace the oil. Reason many service places will not touch such transmissions is when fresh oil is introduced you can get slipping of the transmission due to new oil being thinner and no longer having metal particles in it then they get blamed for the transmission going wrong.
Got a quote from Subaru docklands VIC to service the CVT in my 19 XV. $800
Yes, that's pretty much what Subaru dealerships charge..... that's 2 fluid drain & fills (but no filter replacement).
Don't use a cheap/different CVT fluid because U will never get 100% of the fluid out (10.5 litres) & they don't work well with each other
That is outrageously overpriced
I do a drain and fill (3 quarts) either every oil change or every other oil change ... which I do every 3000-5000 miles. Rotate the tires every other change.
It is called preventative maintenance for a reason. Big companies shut down lines for hours on a regular basis just to clean up inside the machines because it makes a positive difference in long term productivity.
Using your parking brake while in neutral to put the load of the car resting on the brakes instead of any part of the drive train (parking tang, trans, diff, engine) whether auto or manual. Brakes are designed to hold the weight of the car for any length of time; the other parts I presume not so much.
Now I had a family member say to turn the a/c off before turning the car off; I don't know if that is a myth or it was for older cars (I think the advice was from the 80s or 90s); no idea if there is any merit to it or ever was.
Thanks for another video to help people take better care of their vehicular investment.
For those who want a bit more ... the procedure from Honda for changing the fluid when there is an issue (ex: starter clutch stutter) ... drain and fill, run it, drain and fill, run it, drain and fill, run it, drain and fill. Because you are only changing out a portion of the fluid (hence why I will change out 3qts every 3-6000 miles). There is an in-line filter and a in pan filter to remember to change every 30-60000 miles.
Our suzuki swift 2017 running a CVT starting shuddering at about 150k , grabbed a kit online with both filters and sump gasket for $80 and replaced the Oil . Now shes like brand new again, wasnt difficult but you need to ensure you get the correct oil. This is our third swift but first CVT and won't be leaving it that long again before an oil change , Suzuki owners manual doesn't schedule it at all for the CVT even under severe driving, but recommends 40k changes for the manual transmission and 20k changes for the conventional auto . They sure have some unjustified confidence in the CVT.
Lexus tried several times to get me to not service the auto transmission in my car at 90,000km, even though it wasn't even a sealed transmission and is on the city maintenance schedule. They were going against the advice of the car's own factory service recommendations.
It's the only way a dealer will ever get to repair a Lexus...stupidity by the owner or sabotage by the dealer...
Sealed for life until you pay $5000 is how they all see this. Age and mileage are arbitrary, it will fail if you don't service at some point. Auctions are littered with dead CVTs. Car Wizard did a video on a CVT service on his 2013 Nissan Cube back in 2020. Even after 20,000 miles (32k km) the NS2 transmission fluid was black and filthy and full of metallic debris instead of its normal green. Jatco gearboxes are the worst offenders here. BMW once put Jatco torque converters in Japan/SE Asia only E36s and thought they were patently unreliable, so they never used them again. BMW were also one of the first to do "Sealed for life" transmission oil and on their GM 4L30 autos that was 90,000km transmission failures (mum's 1994 318i) unless it detonated earlier along with its engine (my 1994 318i), which says it all if they thought Jatco were unreliable.
That new random focus special effect is pretty cool!
I get the CVT transmission fluid in our 2014 Honda Jazz changed every 40,000kms. It is coming up for its third change next year and is going strong.
Love the accurate information you post I watch pretty much all ur post. I think I can offer or at least build upon your info. I got my 2nd paid job the first being a dishwasher in a restaurant I decided to find a job in the auto repair field in 1986 and consequently started working in a transmission shop full time. Over the years my experience grew. Today I can Say with all confident observation I KNOW ALL MOST NOTHING.however after 30 years of paid experience in the Auto service and repair including frame and body repair.I still have the passion evan today. And I can chime in with a bit of info. Early Stalantis C V T service intervals were every year roughly 12 to 15 thousand miles understand these gearbox's were not ready for mass deployment at all 10 years later here we are. I strongly suggest no more than 20,000 Miles between C V T SERVICE INTERVALS. AND something else to consider that if the engine ever gets above operational Temp blows a hose loose a serpentine belt whatever happens and this is important to understand that the trans cooler is in the radiator.C V T oil gets above temp and generally this is the beginning of most C V T failures. Personally I won't own a car newer than 2012 and another 10 years of research and development or at least 5.before they install these C V Ts in the rest of the light duty cars that don't get taken care of like they should I AM SPEAKING TO THE SERVICE ADVISERS YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.stay true to your car and it will be more reliable.
And yes there were many times while working in a dealership service department that I would of truly wished to get to talk with the vehicle owner that it was frowned upon and in some situations absolutely impossible if I wanted to keep my job
It's always been about fluids. Change them all including diff oil, bearing grease, coolant (use toyota red) etc.. at double the recommended frequency and you'll more than double the lifespan of your vehicle.
Had mine flushed and refilled at 80K from new, and it did make a difference to how the transmission worked.... it's better. I will get it done every 50K now... not cheap, about $400 (mostly materials), but new CVT is a lot more than that. The car has done over 100K now and still working normally...
They are sealed for life... albeit a very short one.
Perhaps that of a vestigal fly ?
You should even change the oil in your EV, even though manufacturers pretend that they don't have any. And in every trans in general... my manufacturer says 12 year transmission interval, which kinda translates to don't even bother, so I did it after 6 years.
My car has a strict service requirement of changing the CVT fluid and filter every 45 000 km. Every third service. I am impressed by that. The warranty extends to 150 000 km. They obviously do not want too foot the bill for a new transmission while the repair expenses would be for their account! I won't divulge the brand name as I don't believe John thinks much of them 😂 Unless somebody would like to guess.
If a car has a JATCO CVT transmission, don't touch it with a barge pole.
However, if you've already made the mistake of buying such a car, the transmission fluid needs to be changed regularly. Preferably at 30,000km or less for light-duty driving (and even less if you drive hard or tow with it). Two or three hundred dollars every couple of years to keep the transmission working properly is a lot cheaper than ten grand for a transmission replacement every 100,000km to 150,000km.
I have a Nissan with the 6 speed manual, great box, but I wouldn't have the 🤬JATCO CVT.
I change my CVT oil from my Toyota iQ. At about 75.000 km's. The oil defenitivly had a bad colour and a bad smell.
I used it as a puller of a trailer. So it was used a lot.
I change my r52 pathfinder cvt oil 30,000km I do it through the dealership think it's about $600 with filters and 8L of oil. It's good on feul 10.5L/100km but it's not very responsive compared to a standard automatic transmission. It has 170,000km and still seems ok
I used to operate a milling machine that had a type of CVT gearbox. For the life of me, the only explanation of why it was on the machine was that it was cheap. Possibly why they put them in cars.
Not to improve their brand reputation, that's for sure.
There is a good transmission specialist in Artarmon, in the industrial part, near Bunnings and all panel beater/service shops. Can't remember the name but i think he was recommend to me by the guy below:
Lambs Road Auto - best local mechanic I found in the area - honest and reasonably priced. I used their services for few years and would still use them, if not the fact that I moved out of the area.
Love your Videos JC, much respect from the Uk 🇬🇧
Thank you very much.
"Sealed for life": I believe it was the great JC himself from whom I first heard utter the words "well there's a self fulfilling prophecy"
Never been a fan of cvt boxes ever since Ford introduced what they called the ctx on the Mk2 Fiesta in Europe. The throttle pedal was more of a volume control than an accelerator and we used to spend a lot of time converting these cars to manual boxes. They had a tendency to suffer a failure such that when putting them into drive they used to leap forward. This caught one of my customers out and the car went through his garage door at a good rate of knots.
If you want to find the lifetime of a part, material, or statement, look in the warranty.
If for example, the warranty is for 60k miles, then that's the lifetime.
If you don't change the oil of a "sealed for lifetime" transmission, then the manufacturer can only guarantee 60k miles.
IMHO, most car manufacturers are worried about the first customer (which is the one who actually buys the car from them), and they have all the stats about how long owners keep their cars on average (before selling them).
On top of this, renting companies account for more than 50% of many manufacturers sales, which further enforces the fact that most buyers won’t keep their cars for 6, 8 or more years.
In practical terms, this means that manufacturers know that they don’t have to “worry” too much about what happens to the car after that period, since the warranty is over, and if the car fails from a poor design or schedule service interval by the manufacturer, most second hand buyers will blame the previous owner for treating the car poorly, even if that’s not the case.
This is plain to see just by opening the hood of most cars and comparing them with much older models from the same manufacturer (from Mercedes to Toyota).
They’re full of plastic parts on key components, from the cooling system to the fuel and lubrication systems, despite all the immense and intense heat cycles that those parts are subjected to.
Making cars lighter is certainly an important fact on these decisions, but I’d argue that those weight savings could be achieved on other components, many of which wouldn’t have such catastrophic engine failure modes.
On top of this, some questionable savings are also made inside the engine and/or gearbox (often in the name of fuel efficiency), making them much more demanding on all fluids.
As if this wasn’t enough, marketing people know that both renting companies and final consumers like to hear about less scheduled maintenance, and that has also become a strong selling point.
So if you’re that customer who will certainly trade your car after 3 years and won’t own it after the warranty expires, following the schedule maintenance is all you need to do, as the warranty should cover any eventual problem.
But if you’re planning to keep it for much longer than that (as many private owners will), take the manufacturer recommendations as the very limit of what you can do, but do it way sooner, and certainly don’t fall for that whole “sealed for life” BS!
In a way, engines could also be “sealed for life”, since you can keep the same oil until the engine dies.
It will certainly die way sooner than it should, but you didn’t need to change the oil while it lasted! 😁
Those fluids will all be replaced after an engine or gearbox rebuild, that for sure! 😁
I have a Nissan Terra, which is an SUV in Asia. It’s diesel diesel. I change the oil about every 12,000 km where filter and they’re telling me they want to drain and refill the transmission oil at 85,000 km from my limited experience with transmissions in the USA it’s generally not advisable to fiddle with the transmission fluid what is your educated opinion if you’re willing to tell me thank you so much I really enjoy your channel and especially your great sense of humor. Thank you very much. It’s quite refreshing.
what i hate about dealerships is they get the apprentice to do the work and then charge you a premium for the service.
$12.50/hr worker getting charged $180/hr for labor.
Yes, that is painful to comprehend, but apprentices need to be trained to become tradesman.
Also remember that simple servicing of vehicles is batshit simple and most unskilled people can perform.
Young apprentices start with the very basics like shop keeping and work their way up.
Apprentices are not generally thrown into the fat and perform all the servicing and diagnosing of complex conditions.
A good workshop will oversee the apprentice and train and give suitable jobs fit for them at their level of competency.
You get a third- or fourth-year apprentice, and they are extremely valuable in the simple to relatively technical side of things for that workshop and in some cases are almost as good.
Particularly if he stays with that workshop and gains that specialty dealer brand insider knowledge.
If a job is done and done well, then it doesn't matter if 15- or 16-year-old hands do the job or a 55-year-old pair of hands
You have to remember that the hourly rates are what they are partly because of having to train apprentices.
No training means no decent tradesman in later years.
Youd be the first one to complain when there is no new people to replace the older and the older puts their rates through the roof because he probably could and would.
@@ScatManAust the rates are what they are because of the fancy buildings dealerships feel they need to provide among other expenses passed on to customers.
I've been part of a dealership, I know some of the shady innerworkings in the front of the house and that attitude gets passed down through the service department onto the customer.
Not all dealerships are shady; so try not to go in with either a chip on your shoulder nor oblivious to that fact you are prey to some no matter what department you are visiting.
@@zakuraayame5091 Yes you are quite right with the buildings and other infrastructure causing inflated rates at stealerships.
I also was not referring wholly n solely to just the motor industry.
Tradesman and apprentices in auto industry is only a fraction mechanics and other trades people in all other aspects of industries.
Try get your shitter fixed and see how much it costs you.
@@ScatManAust 15,000 for a simple colonoscopy if you don't have insurance.
Now do a video on direct injection carbonization. My 2019 subaru Forester just had its inlet manifold replaced under warranty because of carbon build up. 40,000 km's only.
Drive on the freeway for 1 hour once a week & use premium fuel.
40k kilometres in 5 yrs sounds like a lot of short trips/traffic driving which causes carbon build up
I always had the view that given most brand-new cars are sold on a fleet type basis to state government local government private companies etc etc….
the reason for things like sealed for life transmissions is because it lowers the pricing quoted for the service scheduling and it keeps the bean counters pacified and more comfortable to buy the car that has a lower servicing cost
Same kind of thing for 15,000 km oil changes instead of 10,000 km……..
And if its fleet after four years or so, they flip them anyway…….
So I always thought it was just bean counters…..
I even read somewhere once that they use smaller screw on engine oil filters to save a few hundred mils of engine oil so the engine overall takes less and shaves a buck or two off the oil fill cost……
What I read made it sound like pennypinching -
and that was it really…..
Thanks for your feedback.
Wow, a video that doesn't feature a burning lithium battery? Inconceivable.
My ride on has a sealed transmission. 20 years on and no issue. In discussion the other day with some associated people and all said the CVT transmission was the best for driving - except those who haven't owned one. My CVT is so much better than the one of 10 years ago. No drone, some noise on full acceleration but less intrusive than kickdown.
brand of car??
You do need to service the CVT box also the Aisin auto box made by Toyota which is in lots of transfer engine cars,the service manual says sealed for life,you need to change the ATF at 40 grand and therafter or you can fork out loads of cash for another auto box to be fitted.
Sorry diffrernt subject -As an expert John, can you tell me how often an engine oil filter goes into bypas, without being clogged - watching "i do cars" videos, often debris have got up to valve gear even theough filter not blocked ?
I've got mine booked in for Monday. I noticed a cooking smell 6 months ago and the car is sluggish on a cool morning so it's time to get the full check done (125k km)
It's probably farkt.
@@dinosshedi'll see. $$$$$$. I'm hoping it's just the oil used that burnt under towing on a 15min tip run and no metal damage is done.
@@soundknightOil and filter change transformed our shuddering swift CVT at 150k , I thought but was done but she lives in at 180k, 50k oil changes now.
Sealed for life becomes self fulfilling prophesy
Better question : Should you buy anything with a CVT?
Answer : No. Hell no!
Timely video.. I just completed 100k on my 2017 Impreza, yesterday.
Hi John, mostly agree with you, sometimes don't. But, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. I have been around the motor trade one way and another for all of my 70 years. Dad was a diesel mechanic. Regarding dealer servicing, I have a 2018 Hyundai i30 (bought new) and a 2003 Mazda 323 (bought new) sitting in my driveway; guess who drives the Mazda after 40 years of company cars. I have found my local Hyundai dealer very fair with their service costs, and always advise on items like brakes, tyres and other major components. My experience with Mazda dealers has been mixed. I have recently found a dealer whose service advisor is very experienced with no bullshit (a woman, no less). Obviously with fixed price servicing now, dealers are looking for ways to pick up margin. However, I only take the Mazda to a dealer for annual servicing. I just had the radiator replace for less than a third of the cost quoted by the dealer. Why? Got the wrong service advisor on the day. So, yes, I agree with you regarding major replacement items outside warranty, but it doesn't hurt to have a car seen by a dealer every so often. By the way, hate driving CVT's!
I flush my 2 Swift Sport CVT'S every 30k as well as changing the cooler filters.
Most definitely change the oil. I wouldn’t exceed 30K . Toyota, Honda , and even Subaru are pretty decent with the CVT’s . Nissans not so much.
I love the fact you use facts rather than bullsh*t "professional conjecture" to make your points.
The sealed for life thing has been going on for ages. The btr auto gearbox in my 2003 falcon ute is, according to ford, supposed to be"sealed for life". Has 450000km on it and has had the oil changed more times then i can remember.
The XH Falcon so EL and probably EF had the same thing in the mid 90s. Hardly sealed, other than not having a refill place for the average user to keep topped up.
@@stephenw2992 au ba and bf were like that too. No dipstick ya had to jack the old girls up and stick yer finger in the fill hole to check the level. The owners manual for my ba literally says there is no reason to change the oil unless you're a taxi or a cop car lol.
Yes, all I've heard for decades from dealers is "that's a sealed unit you never need to change the fluids".
I've seen a lot of Nissan CVT failures (I've got a customer scheduled for tomorrow morning with one, in fact!), and typically what I'm seeing is failure of the drive or driven cone piston O-ring, and in every single one of those failures, the O-ring was brittle, as seals tend to become in high heat environments. Much like an engine developing oil leaks due to seal hardening with extended oil change intervals, these CVTs eat themselves internally if the fluid is not changed regularly. This is why the failure rate is so high, and so predictable on these transmissions. Whatever the seal material they used is, it's inadequate for the application.
30,000miles/50,000kms seems to be the sweet spot for fluid changes on these magical cupcakes. And please, for the love of god, do not use high-ester (seal bloat/stop leak) products on these in an attempt to address neglect. It will not end well...
For checking the condition of a fluid, I don't know what Australia has for industry, but we over here in 'Murica have a couple of companies (one of which I use regularly called Blackstone Laboratories) who test all kinds of lubricants (if it rolls, floats, or flies, they have a test for it) for an IMHO very reasonable $35USD starting price. Every vehicle I own has had at least its oil, transmission, transfer case, and differential fluid (as applicable) tested at least once to get an idea of the condition of the really expensive internal bits. I'm sure you guys have similar businesses.
Man, if you've dropped the oil, you're going to change the oil- sample testing is now a mute point- why pay the 35?
@@kelvinwood6641 If it has a dipstick or a fill hole, you can pull a sample without draining.
Getting a sample checked, even if you're changing it anyways, can tell you the condition of the fluid, and if anything evil is showing up.
I've had a couple sample reports come back that confirmed my suspicions on age of fluid (i.e: OE fills), and point to a possible reason for symptoms on one transmission. (WAY too long in the tranny, high particulate and contamination levels, indicating that a clogged shift solenoid is a very likely reason one of my jeeps won't lock up the converter currently. it was bought used, and still had factory fill at 136k mies.)
Sealed for live means if the transmission fails the oil reached also the end of its lifetime. It is always a perfect match.
Sears had sealed for life transaxle in their riding mowers. Guess what went out on them by the thousands...
If I were to factor about 4 cvt fluid replacements into the cost of ownership of a vehicle, it's small change.
Clean oil cannot be bad for any machinery, fluids in vehicles are consumables and not replacing them is just so much more costly in terms of failures as well as unsafe.
Last week we had a customer ask us: How long does our product last?
The answer is: It is up to the customer how long they want it to last, as mean time to failure is determined almost exclusively by factors beyond the control of the manufacturer.
The product meats a performance and quality expectation, but needs to be used within best practice parameters.
There are things one can do to make the product perform and last as long as possible, and it actually does not increase the cost of ownership over the lifespan of the product.
A new cvt costs 10-20 times as much as a fluid change, I know which one I would rather pay for.
Like I say about some advice: Just because someone speaks does not mean you have to listen.
And I feel that way about the oem advice on this matter, just change the oil and thus keep it clean.
Just had mine done last month, need to get the sealed for life Mazda 3 transmission done next.
My toyota dealer in rural nsw had to travel 1hr to the next town to pick-up transmission oil.
I dont know if they get asked to do that much.
A dealer without any trans fluid??????
If a car was booked in fore a trans service you'd think they would order fluids ahead of time....
@JohnSmith-pl2bk I even told them when I booked 2wks in advance.
That I wanted this done.
I also recently put new tyres on before the service and I had them on the front (f w drive).and after I picked it up I noticed they rotated my tyres but had one new on the front and one of the back ones that was old.
I just shook my head idk maybe it was busy and old mate was just running on auto pilot.
@@Dr3w2020 Rotating the tyres means swapping back and front, not literally moving them from corner to corner in a clockwise direction. I wouldnt be going back there.
When I got my 2007 altima the trans was starting to fail at 120,000km. I changed transmission oil and made sure the little screen filter at the pump inlet was clean. If it isn't the pump will not produce sufficient pressure. I continued to put on over 200,000km after the oil change and it still had fantastic torque. I'd probably still be driving it if not for other issues.
Interesting dissertation John, I have owned an old Chamberlain tractor for 45 years with a multi- plate clutch driving the power take off, it requires special oil which I now buy from John Deere. I suppose that the shear forces are similar to CVT transmissions. My use is quite violent for about 25 hours a year, the clutch that is. Have only replaced it twice so far.
Suggest someone do some testing on these trans types with nano particle Hexagonal Boron Nitride suspended in the oil. Nano HBN is a high wear resistant particle that has the capacity to heal some of the wear damage on metal surfaces.
I love my Olight i1R2 Pro. It's ridiculously bright for the tiny size.
Planned obsolescence taken to the next level.
I’d also say CVT have become popular with manufacturers because they are cheaper to produce🤣.
Sealed for life = when it dies, its life is up!
I have a Audi A6 with a ZF gearbox. I called the Audi dealer for a gearbox service and they replied that it is "sealed for life" and they will not service it. Meanwhile ZF, the gearbox manufacturer sells the kit for the gearbox service and has recomended service intervals. I did get it serviced at an independent mechanic and running smooth ever since.
Last year I had my first paid service booked for my new Pajero Sport at the local dealer, and they said they wouldn't look into a sound coming from a wheel and wanted me to book in a separate diagnostic session two months away. I cancelled it and broke my "10 year warranty" and let my usual mechanic look it. And yes, the person who did the job is more than happy to have a chat to me about it.
I cannot imagine how rushed the dealer mechanics must be in the service and just ignore everything else? Or do they just say "There's a noise, sorry can't tell you what it is or if you should even keep driving it"
Mechanics in the area reckon many of the dealer service centres have one or two seniors managing a fleet of apprentices and newly qualified mechanics who do all the work and are told you have x minutes to do this job.
Toyota hybrid CVTs are electro-mechanical. No belts or sliding friction. Splash lubrication. No oil degradation. Oil good for life.
The LSD in my sons old EL Falcon let you know when the diff oil needed changing, it started clanging, [I thought it was something else until I read the manual].
2010 Subaru Liberty 228,000kms never had CVT oil changed. Changes as smooth as silk.
For better or worse, I always serviced my 2012 Prius V at the Toyota dealership. When my query about changing the ATF was ignored, I asked two other local toyota dealership service depts but all I got was silence. Toyota will not change the ATF - which in my car is simply a drain and refill. I took it to a transmission specialist to get replaced. First change in 12 years (125K kms). Lesson learned. I won't leave that long next time.
The oem Honda stuff is red and ends up like thin flat coca cola after just 10 thousand miles so i change it at that.
Thankfully its reasonably easy to do
The fluid is pretty expensive though
Not as a new cvt mind!
My now defuct father bought it for my mum thinking it was like a heavy machine cvt as he worked in that field and he never took owt i said seriously and he was right to do that 95%of the time lol
The 2004 Honda Jazz/Fit has a neat little bung on the side of the trans which you undo....
this allows about 3.5 litres of trans fluid to pour out.
Then you do the bung up and pour one Honda supplied and branded 3.5 litre jug of CVT fluid (NZ $109) into the dipstick hole (yeah the early 2000's had CVTs with dipsticks)
and that exactly fills the trans to the right amount of fluid.
If they chatter when taking off from stop the CVT is probably already screwed but Honda dealers throw 2 jugs in as a suck it and see.....
You could run one jug for a year then do the same again...I think the CVT holds over 3 jugs when totally emptied.
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk my mums 2015 jazz has a dipstick for transmition.
It's easy enough to change it yourself eh.
I couldn't find any info about fluid change interval
In the manual and the dealer service guy said
50 thou ?
I change it every other year now which works out about 10 to 12 thousand miles.
the old stuff still comes out looking like old flat
coca cola and smells of burnt!
sealed for life if you don't want it having a long life ....change it routinely if you do..simple..
Sealed for life; and when it breaks, it's life is over. Buy a new one
2014 Corolla, 230,000 K. Still going strong.
What trans and what service intervals....?
96 corolla, 370k, still going strong.
CVT . "SEALED FOR LIFE". Car fully serviced. Transmission never been touched.
It's rather strange that all these eco advances (lithium batteries, small highly strung turbo engines, CVTs) cause the premature failure of components that are sufficiently expensive to potentially justify the premature scrapping of said car, thus negating the environmental benefit of doing it in the first place.
I'm starting to wonder if having people who studied law make decisions that require an engineering background is perhaps not the best way forward.
Here’s the thing John. The CVT in a Subaru requires tear down to replace the filter. Also, as with any automatic transmission be it CVT or otherwise, a great deal of fluid is in the torque converter. So how much ground am I actually gaining by just draining the fluid in the pan and refilling? In my opinion, I am just running partially clean fluid through a dirty filter. Not an optimum service procedure.