Does Subaru have a serious CVT reliability problem? | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.พ. 2022
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Hi John, as a retired mechanic, I was asked to advise a friend of my sister about her Subaru CVT problem. The friend had a Subaru with similar mileage as the one you described and had been serviced on time by the Hobart dealer since new. The dealer had quoted over $11,000 to install a new transmission. I advised her to take the car to a transmission specialist I knew. The specialist repaired the transmission for $1,800 replacing the solenoids.
It seems I should have given her advice along the lines you have just described. Be that as it may, $1,800 was better than $11,000.
Overall though, it seems like there are problems with these CVT’s, and Subaru Australia and/or the dealers are trying to dodge their consumer law responsibilities
Did they replace all of the solenoids while in there? Always smart to go that route unless you like chasing your tail.
@@rivercitymetaldetecting9854 yes replaced them all.
Hi Steve, I'm in Hobart - which Transmission Specialist? :)
@@clasdauskas
“Clutch and Transmission Services” 76 Derwent Park Road. You will find him in the Yellow Pages.
They should keep the manual just for the choice
Thanks John for no watered-down BS report, stating the fact, fair assessment on both sides. This is exactly why I've subscribed to this channel. Can't wait for the outcome of this from Subaru and the dealer.
Me too...and I live in England !
I was in Coffs Harbour while my caravan was having it's wheel bearings replaced after being stranded. My wife and I were looking for a Mitsubishi outlander and went to Geoff King autos to take a look. We walked into the showroom and saw the man himself on the phone, made eye contact and went to walk the lot and let him finish his call. 10 minutes later after nobody paying us any attention he walks out of the showroom and makes a beeline straight for an older, richer looking couple who had just arrived. We walked straight off the lot, made a call to Taree Mitsubishi and were immediately dealt with by Victor Schmidt down there. So much better facilities and attitude.
Some dealerships ask you what suburb you live in. Just there way to find out if you're interested in buying asap
Doesn't Geoff sound like a top bloke to spend your hard earned money with......
Thank you John, I appreciate your support and honesty. You are a rare example of integrity and professionalism in car reviewing industry mate.
I love your passion for people knowing about consumer law, John. Thanks for the video and looking forward to the follow up.
I have a 2019 Outback 3.6R. I asked the dealer who services it to change the transmission oil at 40,000kms. Something I've always done in all my previous vehicles. Oil is cheap. and transmissions are not. The Subaru dealer refused to change the oil. Just wouldn't do it. Apparently the CVTs have some magic oil in them that "lasts the life of the transmission". I put it to the gronk serving me that all transmissions have oil in them that will last the life of the transmission. Because if you don't change the oil, the transmission will not live forever. He couldn't grasp that simple concept.
So I'm not at all surprised that the Coffs Harbour dealer had to ship the CVT to Melbourne. My Subaru dealers can't or won't even change the oil in them. Presumably they view the entire CVT as "not serviceable".
I do the same for my car. Dad ran a limousine business and did the same, result was he had a fleet of cars with the same transmissions that had half a million k’s on them. Other people industry were replacing transmissions at 150-200,000k’s.
@@laurence2192 Yep, that's it exactly. I've had about a dozen cars. I don't baby them. I like a spirited drive through the countryside. But I've never had a transmission failure and I reckon keeping fresh oil up to them is part of that. I'm prepared to accept that a CVT may have different requirements and internal loads at the points which require lubrication and so their service requirements may well be different. But I'm hard pressed to accept that they never need an oil change.
@@chrisact9601 absolutely they need fluid changes, no fluid lasts forever especially under heat and stress. An important point is when a manufacturer says something lasts the ‘life’ of the car that usually means the warranty period or approx. 150,000km. It is in their interest to have you come back in a few years time for a new transmission rather than just maintaining it properly.
Same here. Dealer advised not to change fluid and the CVT had to be replaced at around 70,000 miles but started making noise that no dealer mechanic could hear around 62,000 miles.
All dealerships make me sick John , most people do the right thing and absorb over time the rip-off service cost of these vehicles to then run into a reliability problem which the car companies want to brush off with arrogance. Absolutely shamefull behaviour that needs Calling out .
Hi John long time listener. We have 3 Subarus in my household on your advice including a 2016 outback premium with 70000km on the clock. All have been bulletproof up to this point. So I’m very interested in the outcome. Keep up the good work.
Mark
Absolutely brilliant John - thank you…
It’s also a service requirement to check fluids in diffs, transmissions and transfer cases - so a dealership has also missed low fluid in one and high fluid in another. Plus you would automatically know the strong smell of contamination because of the gear oil smell 👃
Thanks for yet another well constructed and factual report. My partner suffered a similar issue with a 2013 XV about 6 months ago. The car had approx 110k on it and on a recent trip, the dash lite up like a Xmas tree. The issue was traced back to the transmission, (one fault creates a cascade of other fault codes). We had 2 different dealers look at it and they did this at no charge, but both quoted $5-7k to repair. We then spoke to Ron Hill Automatics on the Sunshine Coast and was quoted $2.5k to repair. The funny thing was the lady on reception said XV well know for having bad batch of solenoids and they keep them in stock. Hmmmm for A/T specialist keep these in stock says something, whereas a dealer has to order them in? We did approach Subaru and after some delays and the "good will" clause being touted, they declined to offer any support. The other issue here is that both Dealers and Subaru realise how important you car is, so unless you have alternative transport, they can keep you in a holding pattern. If it could be proven that the dealer in this case provided false or misleading information then they should be liable. $1500 for a report that you can't get a copy of? Smells like BS. Cheers
Good to hear that you are prepared to publish a follow up video, very important to us punters. Thanks John
Sending this to a mate that’s had ongoing issues with his 2016 Outback CVT. Been in and out of the dealer many times but still within warranty period
Consumer law trumps warranty every time.
@@AutoExpertJC It needs to be taught in school - not just so people know about it - but so that they know its limits too i.e. failure due to abuse doesn't count.
@@TonyRule I guess that means they will be trying to prove abuse with every claim then.
@@lesfox2010 But when haven't they?
Hey John, I have had 6 Subaru's in the last 15 years and my current MY13 XT Forester will be the last. I'm an OCD type a bloke and look after my cars well beyond the average bloke. 2019 I contacted Subaru Australia about the vinyl tearing up and the foam failing on my driver's seat. I explained my car is garaged at home and work so it doesn't get cooked in the sun.
They responded that the car is out of warranty and they have never heard of this occurring.
Funny when I asked Google, I was in disbelief on how many customers were complaining about that same issue. Further to that from 100000k I get the CVT serviced every 2 years, sealed for life bull shit.
Funny the guy that serviced my CVT said they used to repair the CVT for Subaru in Brisbane but they got sick of Subaru taking so long to make the decision with repair or replace as it occupied the workshop hoists. Car currently has 116000k.
Keep the bustards honest John
thanks john - very informative - i have to admit im a little ignorant of consumer laws in aus - most of what i have learnt is actually from your past videos
You are a dying breed John. You’d be hard pressed to find any journalist or media platform standing with your average joe anymore. It’s remarkably refreshing!
Please keep doing what you do!
Great post and video. I'm hoping these folks get the help they need and deserve.
We all appreciate what you do for us,thank you Mr Cadogen
I own a Subaru and would love to see the results. Thanks for the good video. Keep it up.
Well done for bringing this to light. Interesting to see what happens…. We own a 2016 Suburu outback, so far so good.
Hi John. We have a 2017 Levorg that had a CVT pump leak at around 70,000kms. Fortunately for us, we bought extended warranty so this was repaired free of cost.
John, thanks for your support of the average person.
On the Car Wizard channel he showed a very instructive tear down of a Nissan CVT showing what happens to transmission bands.
Years ago CVT seemed like a good idea to me, but the more I learn about them.
Subaru cvt uses a chain not a belt like the crap Nissan.
as Hoovie would say, the weeeee-zerd
Very different transmission. Subaru used a pull type chain in their CVT, NIssan uses a pull type belt if im not mistaken.
Service is key!
Well said John and very timely for us, we are days away from putting down a deposit on a Forester, can’t wait to hear the result of this issue.
Let's see what happens.
I'd WAIT
Forrester XT had oil pump cover leak common problem, I think don't quote me it's the 2015 and 2016 had the issue like I say not 100% sure as the newer models had updated CVT
I've already placed my deposit on a new 2022 Outback, I too am holding my breath and hope I have made the right decision.
Thank you John .... Great job holding these manufacturers and dealers to account.
At our house one of our vehicles is a 2010 Subaru Outback with over 180,000 ('Murican) miles or over 280k km on the original CVT. The car is just now starting to wear out and give a few mechanical hiccups, nothing terribly major. It has been a super durable vehicle.
At 80k km on an Outback transmission Geoff's Subaru Emporium of Whatever Harbor should have given the customer a hug and told him a new transmission would be shaken out of Subaru's mothership post haste. This nonsense about sending the tranny a billion kms to an independent shop for analysis is balls deep ridiculous.
Agreed!
The fact that the victim had to go to a dealer that didn't know him didn't help either. Apparently, if there is no relationship to look after, you more likely to be regarded as a cash dispenser by this dealer.
John mate, 40 years ago I was a Service Manager for a Victorian Subaru dealership. Back then it wasn't CVT problems it was CV joints and boots - they drove Subaru owners crazy, Subaru knew about this problem? They were expensive to replace and unreliable and up to around 500 to 600 replaced per month Australia wide!! And Subaru did nothing. Once I got out of therapy, I promised myself I would think very carefully about Subaru in the future, Great video as always - Thanks.
I had Subaru Brumby in the mid 90s a 91 year build on went through a cv joint about every 18 months the CV boot for some reason would rip causing the whole cv joint to eventually get noisy
If anyone with a Subaru Outback that has a CVT hears a little squeak on startup which sounds like a slipping drivebelt, it is actually a known fault with the torque converter. The part was replaced under warranty for my 2018 2.5i. To their credit, the dealership informed me about the problem during a scheduled service and arranged repair shortly thereafter. No problems since then.
It is a shame to hear about reliability issues with the CVT as it works well with the engine, providing good access to power, smooth driving and great fuel economy. It is the best CVT I have driven and feels no different to a conventional auto when driven sedately.
I actually had this with my 2019 Outback (in the UK) and assumed it was an issue with the starter motor. Never got it checked out and sold the car earlier this year for unrelated reasons. Thanks for the info - very interesting!
Great to see more skin John! And I did enjoy your awesome advice, once I got back on my chair.
If this matter goes to the Regulator for assessment, I would want to encourage the Regulator to seek confirmation that the actual 'original' report or copy thereof sent to the Dealer is produced for the parties to review (in case any wording in the original report was subsequently amended because it could incriminate Subaru). I don't see the logic in not providing the customer with a copy of the report unless there is something in it that could incriminate Subaru - like mentioning that this is a known/common/the same problem as found previously in CVT seals or God forbid, is a 'premature' failure of the seal - as either or both of these will catch Subaru under the consumer guarantee provisions.
It seems to me that if there is a seal which 1) is critical because it's failure will lead to failure of the whole transmission and 2) its failure is unlikely to be detected by the Mfr. specified routine service program, then that program is inadequate. Subaru hasn't a leg to stand on, to use the technical term.
Exactly. Failure at less than the expected life of the transmission is unacceptable.
That argument worked for me when my Hyundai clutch locked up at 100,000km just out of ‘Warranty’, took 2 weeks of solid argument with dealer and HQ to get it fixed. Almost wrote to JC myself.
We remember the BA BF falcon gearbox failures, Looks like the same thing.
Nice one John, will be most interested in the outcome. I have a 2016 MY16 Subaru Outback 3.6R, to date has covered 93,000km and has been nothing but perfect. Serviced every 6 months by Subaru.
Great reporting, as always, John. I hope this video gets lots of attention and the consumer gets the justice he deserves. Hopefully, Subaru will do the right thing.
Well done John, I'm on my 5th Subie. Thankfully I continue to choose manual trans... I wish Tom well in his endeavour and to you in pursuing this on his behalf. I am considering purchasing two (2) new Outbacks this year for my business, and the outcome of this may well influence my decision to do so. I have always like their safety, (former reliability), their all wheel drive system and the fact that their CVT's do provide good fuel efficiency.
I'm am hoping that this case will not diminish my liking for the brand as there are not to many left to choose from should I have to look elsewhere.
@Alfred Weber I know that...
I have ordered an Outback and for the first time in my life, I cannot get it in a manual so I've opted for the cvt. I hope this is not a mistake.
@@samanthaalexander1756 I doubt it, Subaru has upgraded their CVT's four times since inception and are considered fairly reliable.
I bought a new Mitsubishi Challenger from Geoff King in 2015. I found that they didn't do everything listed on the invoice as work done with their capped price servicing. This included not changing the cabin air filter on every service (not a critical item, but I did pay for them) and not replacing the radiator fluid. I had to top up the radiator fluid and the owners manual didn't whether red or green fluid was used. I looked up the parts list on the invoice to see what they had used..........no fluid used: they didn't change it. Of cause I chose the wrong one but I wanted to get it pressure test done and fluid changed anyway. I didn't get any more services done at Geoff King. I know on one service they did change the diesel filter because they didn't bother reconnect the the water detection wiring to the filter. Good luck trying to get damage caused by water into the fuel injection system rectified by them. The only good they've got going for them is that the Nissan dealer across the road has a much worse service department.
Thanks for your videos John. I've just discovered your channel and loving it. I've subscribed and I'm currently binging. I'm very interested to hear the outcome of this particular issue though as I'm currently in the market for a new car and Subaru XV is at the top of my list. My daughter drives one and loves it, but my decision might be swayed pending further info!! Thanks again.
Precisely because of these CVT issues, I have intentionally avoided a CVT from any manufacturer. I’ll stick to a traditional tranny (so unfortunately, I won’t buy a modern Subaru), thank you very much.
A friend of mine is having exactly the same problem with his Outback and a Subaru dealer (in Sydney I believe) despite the car still being within its warranty. He’s been without his car for seven weeks now, all efforts have been to see how they can get out of repairing it rather than how to fix it.
Well done John on highlighting these serious problems within the car industry. It smacks of similar problems at Mazda. On reading the comments below, it is obvious that CVT problems with Subaru are nothing new and of course the dealers and manufacturer would be well aware of this problem. For the owner to have to pay $1500 for a report that he doesn't get to see is outrageous. The subsequent action by the dealer and Subaru have made the situation far worse. It is true that many consumers are unaware of the Consumer law that has been in force since 2011 and there has to be some form of education to remedy this. My question is - what does the consumer do to take action against the manufacturer? Do they go to the ACCC or State Government Consumer Departments or do they engage a solicitor at considerable expense? A lot of consumers would not be prepared or have the wherewithal to take action and of course manufacturers prey on this. It would be really good to know what manufacturers really look after their customers (whether the car is in warranty or not) and apart from personal experience (usually negative) the customer is really left in the dark.
Consumers need to make it clear that they are willing to take it to court and make their issue public via social media.
What issues with Mazda do you down of?
Well done, John! Everyone need to do the right thing.
Great video I can't wait for part 2
As someone currently with a 2008 Outback who has a 2022 Subaru Outback on order (#loyalcustomer) who has not outlaid any money as yet relating to that order, I'm very keen to see how this story pans out (#yes_Subaru_that's_a_threat).
As a former Subaru employee from NZ. CVT failures, along with wheel bearings, CV,s and oil consumption was a common and known issue
Hmmm… my CV’s went on my 2014 Forester after around 140k but they only had 3 year warranty back then, and was about 6 month out of warranty so had to pay to get it fixed
Are head gaskets still an issue ?
@@roblord7610 yep
@@roblord7610 No, and never on the turbos. In fact, if you do ever need a head gasket, be sure to use the one from the turbo model instead, they are larger and more durable.
What model years are worst?
Suburu had recalls from factory around 2012 2014ish where we were splitting the transmissions and drilling holes for oil journals in which were mistakingly not drilled during manufacture. These trans issues are not unusual from my experience. The big guys need to pull up their boots as i for one as a small automotive repairer hate having to counsel my poor faithful clients from being previously given the pineapple.
As always love your content John cheers mate.
I would love an update on this if at all possible down the road. I would love to know who I should have a negative view on in the future Subaru or dealership. It would also be nice to know if the facts where misrepresented and neither of them are incorrect in their actions if that is the case.
I bought a 2018 Honda Civic brand new. It was driven moderate distances in typical Sydney traffic conditions.
The CVT in that car started shuddering and slipping at around 45000km and multiple Honda dealerships told me they could not replicate the insanely loud shuddering.
It felt like the engine and transmission were going to fall out of the car. I had to threaten legal action to get ANY sort of repair done.
They did an “transmission oil change”, which was not covered under the warranty anyway and I eventually had the transmission replaced at great cost to myself and sold the car.
I refuse to drive anything that has a CVT in it now. Absolute garbage transmissions. If a car has a manual transmission option, I’ll take it. Honda and Subaru are deliberately rorting the Aussie market by excluding manual transmissions from the market and forcing us to buy the rubbish CVTs.
I am going through the exact same thing. 2016 Outback CVT failed 31/12/21 on the M1 heading north at Tea Gardens. Just made the break down lane. Initially towed to a local mechanic for inspection and then to Trivett Subaru Parramatta on the 27/1/22. Trivett and then Subaru Australia both claimed the car was out of warranty, even though the sale contract cleary states the warranty expiration date of 30/1/22. The car was purchased new (not demo) from Parramatta with a delivery date of 27/3/17. I suggest everyone check their contracts for a similar 'mistake' as i am still in dispute with Subaru Australia about why we have lost 2 months of warranty. Subaru Australia and Trivett have both said this CVT issue will be looked at as "good will" even though the car was under warranty. Trivett had the car 2 weeks before they admitted there was a major CVT problem. They have now sent the transmission to an unnamed "expert" for further inspection. Car has been off the road for 7 weeks and has been with Trivett for over 3 weeks and there is no end in sight. Just waiting for the phonecall saying they wont be paying for this repair. Its cost me around $3000 so far in towing/car rental. Have all this on email. Strongly advise against purchasing a Subaru with a CVT of this era.
If they can’t fix it in a reasonable time, I think you’d be entitled to a refund.
That's unacceptable not to mention the inconvenience of being without a car. If you don't get a satisfactory resolution. Go on to product review Australia Post your experience with subaru. It would be more economical for subi to stump up for your repairs as a negative review on that popular site will probably cost hundreds of thousands in lost sales
I would be asking them for a replacement vehicle at their expense. 7 weeks is NOT reasonable repair time. Oh and make sure you mention consumer law, filing a formal complaint with consumer affairs or whatever they call themselves these days. And yes as you are doing , only correspond in writing so you have records.
I finally fix my problematic Subaru three years ago! I bought a Toyota no problems since !
How many ks at time
I had a problem with a pump in an Xtrail M31 just 6 months out of warranty. The dealer negotiated a free part and charged me 2 hours of labor to install. A reasonable behavior exactly as John explained.
2021 Forester owner here. I'm on my 4th Subie, and have always loved the brand. No real problems with any of mine, this is my 3rd Forester and I also had a 2015 Diesel Outback. I've always considered them bulletproof so it will be interesting to see the outcome of this. Frankly I'm surprised as Subaru here in W.A. have always been excellent with pretty much any issue, it's one of the reasons why I choose the brand! Let's hope this is just a dealer who can be sorted and not a reflection of the brand/ service overall down under
would love to hear a follow up to this John, ive been a subie guy for many years, and have often been impressed by their customer service. Hopefully Subaru Australia decide to partake in an inquery to this dodgy dealer and not only give them a smack on the bum, but make a fair and just decision for their vulnerable clients.
As an American and owner of an Outback, I have not yet had any problems. I also have several friends and family members with Outbacks of the same generation in this video who have also not had problems. One friend owns a Forester of this vintage who does have some CVT issues. Generally, it's the same problem, the solenoids fail after 120k miles or 200k kms. This is an easy repair at an indy shop for less than 1000 USD. One thing that I find strange is that Subaru in many markets recommends that the CVT and Diff fluid be changed every 3 years or 36k miles (50k kms), but not in the US. I suspect that they want to keep the cost of ownership down, but I also know that people who do change their CVT fluid regularly often see their cars hit 300k miles (500k kms). The point is that it's important to change your fluids, even if the manufacturer claims it isn't necessary. There is no such thing as lifetime fluid. In America, lifetime means the life of the warranty (5 years, 60k miles).
Our 2016 Forester began having noticeable disengagement issues at 2 mph before a stop. (US) Having been a snowmobile mechanic in a previous life, I knew the basics of this type of transmission. This saved us as we were 2,000 miles to the end of the warranty at 100,000 miles. Subaru replaced the transmission at no charge. We're keeping it for a while, so we will do regular oil changes if possible from now on.
Never had an issue after owning four Subarus. Parents never had an issue with theirs. I don't know anyone who has had a CVT issue. The internet allows butthurt individuals a platform to amplify things, so it might appear that there's a huge problem when it's just one angry consumer.
Hi John. We had a similar with our 2013 Subaru Forester 2.5 L petrol last year. We live in Bendigo, car purchased new and serviced here by Subaru regularly. We had gone to the local market, got back in the car and the whole dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree. Still ran but the system had obviously put itself into "safe" mode. Subaru told us it was a failure in the body valve that they couldn't get to so they had to replace the whole kit. Full replacement price was nearly $4000 and we paid $1070, which was 20% of the cost of the genuine part and the labour costs, which we considered reasonable. The car was on 112 thousand ks at the time. Currently being traded on a new Triton. If it ever arrives in the country.
That’s the issue…. 112000k … no transmission should fail
John, I wish we had a warrior like you here in Canada. We could sure use one.
Great to see someone with a following using it to stand up for people who are seemingly being abused by a rogue dealer. I'm looking forward to hearing an update to this story!
Well put! Went through a similar saga with Toyota recently (just Google 1KD-FTV cracked piston). Now I understand what Toyota Australia and the 'Stealer' were up to. They just work on making it extremely difficult. Thanks John
My brother had exactly the same problem with his MY2016 Outback. Fortunately it was found a month before the warranty expired so was fixed at no cost to him. The car had less than 60,000km on it and had never towed anything. As an owner of many Subaru's since 1994, the standard of service and support plummeted when Inchcape started bringing the cars in without warranty and covering all local warranty costs themselves, around 2000. A sneaky way to increase margins on every car because the prices didn't go down to reflect the lower standard of care provided.
I will be certainly looking forward on a follow up on this report. If Subaru Australia's reputation is going "poopy", then I think we'd all like to know about that. Especially if whispers of new car purchases are in the air, not that you can buy a new car these days 😁
For what it's worth, we have a 2015 Outback that we brought new. Just out of the 6 year warranty (3 base and 3 extra from the dealer if we serviced it exclusively with them) we started getting a variety of errors on the dash, including transmission failure. Car was still drivable, but we decided it was probably worth getting it looked into.
As we were outside of the extended warranty, the last couple of services were performed with a preferred local mechanic who I'd been servicing my 2005 Liberty for a number of years with no issue. They took a look and said it looked like a transmission failure and that we should take it to a dealership before getting them to replace it (due to the cost).
We took it to the local dealer, Bill Buckle in Brookvale (not where we had brought the car or previously had it serviced), who gave us a loan car (XV) while they investigated (no mention of sending the transmission anywhere, but it took a lot longer than I expected). It took a number of weeks and follow up calls, and throughout this process it felt as though they were testing our measure to see how we'd respond to the various positions and costs. Eventually said that Subaru had agreed to replace the transmission on 'good will' grounds and we only had to pay labour costs. Given we had access to their loan car throughout the process I decided that was reasonable and the labour was only a couple of hundred.
I'm familiar enough with AU consumer law to not take any shit, but thankfully it never came to that in this instance.
This story seems remarkably similar to that of the protagonist you have spoken to John, thankfully with slightly less shitfuckery and largely a happier ending. As you mentioned, there appears to have been major Subaru CVT recalls in the US and while I believe the local units are not the same it seems like there could be some similar reliability issues.
Hey John, great report. Put you hat back on ;) Love to hear a follow up on this one.
My partner is in the process of trading up from her current wagon. We would have been keen to include the Outback into the preferred list but we reluctantly deleted it primarily because of the CVT. Looks like it was the right decision. Great work John, look forward to hearing the outcome on this one.
"looks like it was the right decision" ....? how so? How do you prophecy which car's CVT will fail? Most don't. Similar with double clutch automatics - some fail (and stutter from new). Our 5 year old Outback has the 3.6 6 cylinder motor, travels off road on our trips - not a single issue with the CVT
Nice work John, I’m very interested to see the outcome. Reading the comments, Subaru are up for some pain if they have indeed played a part in this. I’d say it’s a rogue dealer unless their side of the story says otherwise. I’d expect any modern new car to last 10 years / 200k km minimum without any major issues.
Thanks for the report John - I’ve owned 10 yes 10 Subarus here in Australia being a Leone, a Liberty, several Foresters, a WRX GC8 and Outback - I stopped buying them when the flawed CVT was introduced in 2013 - yes we all know about Nissan issues - have a look at how many used 2013-2016 Subarus with CVTs are up for sale with extraordinarily low prices which is uncharacteristic for a Subaru - apparently they’re known to start failing consistently around 60000-100000kms - they can overheat when towing and steep accents, hesitate in certain situations but now I own a Hilux - John in SA
Like you, I am something of a Subaru enthusiast. There are 3 Subes in my family, my wife and I have bought 2 of them. I have had no such problems, but like many of your 317,000 subscribers, will follow this with interest, and consider this person’s plight in our next purchase. I hope he gets a successful outcome.
Didn’t Mazda get bent right over for misrepresenting Australian Consumer Law to customers? I mention that because it’s sounding very much like this dealer just did the same thing. I’ll be more than interested to hear the follow up on this to see if the details bare it out because I really thought that Subaru were better than this…
I have a 2017 Outback. Went to drive off from a roundabout and it failed - early 2021. No gears - all were neutral. It was several months out of warranty (3 years). I paid to have it towed to the dealer. The dealer said the cvt "Belt" broke. It was repaired by the dealer with no charges. It took several weeks to get "approved" by subaru australia but they eventually repaired it - took about 2 months. They replaced it with a "refurbished" one. I should probably sell it. I understand the US has extended the warranty to 10years for the CVT because they are prone to failure.
Timing is everything, i might pause my decision on putting that deposit down on that Forerster I will watch how this plays out, thanks JC.
Greetings from the gateway to Palmdale and thanks for the O-light its a rippa . My money is on the dealer being the bent spanner in the works,, looking forward to the follow up on this one ! keep up the great work John.
On the subject of Subies, I have one of the last manual Imprezas. It has a safety feature ensuring the clutch is depressed to use the starter motor. As an OAP it is our flagship and only does fortnightly longish trips. Years ago the advice was to not depress the clutch (unless in a climate where the cold thickens the gearbox oil). The reason being that the crankshaft thrust bearing is not under sufficient oil pressure leading to excessive wear. Your comment would be appreciated.
PS love the car except for the throttle release response----It needs a lot stronger idle return spring on it's electronic carby (haha).
So you shouldn't press the clutch fully in on start up?
@@whitedevil5885 Probably more applicable on 1960 era cars and then ones that were used infrequently. The advice was in a car mechanics mag from the UK but it stands to reason that depressing the clutch puts a longitudinal force on the crankshaft
The Impreza uses a safety switch (as in a neutral switch in an auto) on the clutch pedal and was subject to a recall.
My Honda S2000 does same thing.
I will not be leaving that in while finishing the LS3/T56 swap though xD
Rrason is high torque starters in modern cars are pretty violent so it's for safety. My old camry was bad enough starting in gear, it can literally drive the car on starter alone... up a moderate hill even. Just saying!
So yes it could theoretically cause very slight wear on thrust bearing, but it isn't under heavy load and will already have some oil in it. I wouldn't worry about it but just modify the switch/wiring to avoid it if it bugs you.
@@N4CR5 Thanks for that, I have been considering a jumper across the terminals, I wouldn't be so concerned if used daily. I once started my KE36 Corolla in gear when the clutch wouldn't disengage, turns out the clutch plate had let a piece of steel loose and dragged on the flywheel. It healed itself except for a little creeping at traffic lights. Found out years later and it left a gouge in the flywhee lmating surface
It's nice to have a law that enforces durability but having to go to court will scare off most consumers
Just not having a vehicle for a week or 2 can be extremely inconvenient. Imagine how long a prolonged negotiation could leave you without wheels
hi john ,
great report again
Hi John, I bought a new Subaru Outback in July 2016 and it came with 3 years warranty from Subaru. I think it was later on that they changed to 5 years warranty. Thankfully I had no problems with the Outback and traded it in for a new 2021 Outback Touring last June, fingers crossed.
Thanks John, we have a 2015 Outback purchased new in Jan 2016 with 75,000km on the clock and it has been a great family car with, touch wood, no issues to date. Although, at the 60 month service or thereabouts they remove the back seat to inspect the fuel tank. When the wife brought it home it had a very strong fuel odour in the car and later that night noticed a fuel leak on the garage floor. Rang the dealer and took it back the next day. The seal they replaced as part of the service was "faulty", was told it had a crease in it so it didn't seal correctly? They put another one in and gave us a $20 fuel card for our troubles. Would have preferred that a good seal was installed to start with but if that's the worst that happens to it then we will consider ourselves fortunate.
Mistakes happen. They made good.
I'd say they installed the seal incorrectly in the first place crimping it causing the leak
"Faulty".... because they didn't install it correctly and then gave you the cut and paste BS excuse for their incompetence
Sounds like the fuel pump recall. My wife's 2018 Toyota 86 (so a BRZ) had this fixed by the Toyota dealer. We were notified of the recall, the dealer was apologetic, they apologised for any fuel smell, and warned us to watch and smell for leaks. There were none.
@@johncarne1055 good chance but the manufacturers certainly don't make it easy for the techs with placement and access, once upon a time everything was easily accessible but now everyone thinks they're so smart cramming parts in places you can barely get half a hand into.
We've owned 3 Foresters (one of which (2009 Premier Turbo) we currently drive). Stories like this and stories about CVTs makes me very reluuctant to buy another Suby.
We have a 2006 manual Outback that is approaching its end of economic life. I'd love to buy another, but have taken a wait and see on CVTs for ex exactly these reasons. Will be watching this closely.
The hands of a small child with the strength of a championship rock climber is the required physique of the motor mechanic in the 2000s ... madness ....
I've had three Subaru wagons here in NZ ('95 Legacy 250T 4EAT sold at 245k km and I know it did at least 100k km more before being parked in the tide; '97 Grandwagon 5 sp man + hi/lo, sold at around 200k km when I moved overseas, and my current 2008 Outback 2.5XT Eyesight 5EAT with about 120000 km on it). I've driven a number of CVT Outbacks and (unlike some, who I suspect haven't driven them much, or don't have throttle control) really enjoy them. I owned a 2017 Outback 2.5 Touring CVT in California in 2019-2020, bought with 37500 miles on it and sold at 55000 miles when COVID came and I left. No problems with it.
The car in California came with, as you said, a 10 year 100,000 mile transferrable drive-train warranty.
I enjoy CVTs, except for their very limited torque at standstill e.g. starting from the lights, climbing a curb, or steep slow climbs off-road. I wish Subaru would add a "starting gear" as Toyota has done on their non-hybrid CVT cars.
I've actually been very pleasantly surprised by the good fuel economy of the 2008 265 HP turbo Outback with 5EAT. So far I'm averaging 9.3 l/100km (made worse by towing) with a best tank of 7.9. The 9 years newer n/a CVT machine in California averaged 8.5 l/100km, with a best of 7.7. The CVT was doing 1800 RPM at 65 mph, while the 5EAT is doing 2100 at 100 km/h. The 5EAT is usually locked up in 5th at any speed over 50 km/h, unless accelerating or climbing. Accelerating at moderate steady throttle openings the 5EAT has the engine sitting at 2500 RPM (the torque peak) to 3000 RPM, with the RPM not changing as the car accelerates in a gear, or even when it changes gear, right from a standing start to the speed limit. It's hard to tell it's not a CVT! It's just worlds more refined than the old 4EAT.
I suspect conventional belt/chain CVTs will not be long for this world at Subaru. I'm picking by the late 2020s they'll move the entire lineup to hybrid with Toyota's "eCVT" i.e. two electric motor/generators with a fixed single ratio planetary gearbox to split RPM/torque between engine, wheels, and electric motors.
Fantastic video John. Love your work. Ps your camera aoto focus is not so great 😉 I hope Subaru Australia looks after him now after this.
JC, I have you to thank for educating me about the Australian consumer law. In my recent battle with Subaru over a failed WRX AC compressor, I read the legislation fairly carefully. My understanding is that it is the 'supplier' that is responsible for the problem, which is actually the dealer that sold you the vehicle. Not Subaru Australia and not some other dealer in a more convenient location. Happy to be corrected, but I think it's a useful point to consider. For what it's worth, Subaru Australia very reluctantly came to the party before I had to go to Defcon 1 (in Auto Expert parlance), but I was prepared to press the red button, purely on principle. Although I made it very clear to the original dealer that I was going to go all the way, so to speak.
And yes, my CVT failed at one point. Not sure why. There was a small transmission leak which was fixed under warranty. The phone rang and I was expecting the dealer to tell me the car was ready. They told me the vehicle lost all drive whilst being test driven. Subaru replaced the transmission with a new one. I'll never know the cause. But I suspect the apprentice tasked with the job probably failed to put oil in after replacing the seal/gasket. 2016 model car with a broken CVT in early 2019.
My view is Subaru will supply a new cvt but will claim against the cvt supplier.
If what you are saying is true then Mr Thoms is in a bit of a pickle as his car broke down far from home.
Hey John! I lived in Peru for almost 10 years and owned a Subaru Forester with a CVT for about 3 years. I had no problems with the transmission but something similar happened to me when I took it for a full check-up at an official Subaru dealership.
They had this offer where they checked the vehicle from A to Z for a really good price. What happened is that at the end they just verbally told me what the findings were but they declined to give me the written report stating some corporate BS that is not allowed bla bla.
I just remembered this while watching the video. I feel sorry for the owners and I hope they get their money back. It is shameful behavior indeed.
That is some thick BS by the dealer.
@@madmick3794 it's also borderline illegal in many countries
John, I'll be watching this with interest!
I have 2018 XV with just over 1hundred thousand on the clock.
Serviced to the book.
I have asked as to whether the CVT should be serviced, no was the stern answer.
I do wish Subaru would sell us US spec XVs, 2.5 ltr MANUALS.
Thanks for the excellent video.
I have a late 2015 build turbo diesel Outback Premium with CVT purchased early 2016. The car doesn’t get driven much but has done a tad over 90,000 km mostly 300+km highway runs with some of that towing a light camper trailer. The car is driven vigourously and often in manual mode and it sees plenty of variable quality bush gravel roads. It is serviced every 6 months and the only issue has been a minor, intermittent dash fault that was sorted under warranty not long after purchase. Never had any issues with either the DPF or the CVT though I do intend having the CVT oil changed at 100,000 km.
A relative recently changed her turbo diesel/CVT Outback for a more conventional 4WD. Similar km on the clock to mine but more time spent towing a heavier camper though still well within the car’s limits. Again no CVT issues at all.
Reminds me of circa 90's Mazda E-series vans shedding entire sheets of paint after several years, leaving pristine primer showing through; Mazda had changed their paint process to be more environmentally friendly.. nice; Mazda ignored customer complaints, stating the warranty period was over.
I'm really looking forward to the follow up of this. In this day and age you should be able to expect better reliability from a new car than a 1993 Toyota Camry with 300,000kms on it already.
Agreed.
1993 Toyota Camry doesn't count. They are a freak of engineering!
I'd argue that manufacturers have been discretely engineering long term durability out of their systems since the mid 2000's, and that most newer platforms are at serious risk of being economic write-off's at 10 years/150000km. My daughter recently upgraded from her first car. Drove a 2012 Impreza, nice car and in her $12K budget. Dad's advice...it's got a CVT so you need to consider that that car is potentially one drive away from a $12K repair, therefore it could become worthless at any time. Buy that 2015 i30 instead.
@@Techo1329 You're not wrong - the Koreans (Hyundai and Kia) are the only ones really trying to make their cars more reliable rather than value-engineer them down to the point where they only last a handful of years, because they're trying to overcome their old reputation for low quality they earned in the early to mid 90s.
@@paulmcgaw6976 i wished i had one many times over the years. pretty rare to see one now though.
Very good report. Well done.
Hi, John, I owned an XV 2.0L from new in early 2012 to April 2021, 95,000 KM and drove it hard - dirt roads, always hot off the lights, modulated the accelerator to kick the CVT into a faster "gear", and traded it last year(for a higher valuation than I expected) for 2021 XV. No problems with anything in the 2012 model except CV joints and some issues with steering (bent tie-rod), probably caused by me hitting rocks or a gutter too hard. So I think these CVTs are pretty tough and it's just unlucky to have a bad one. Hope the owner gets resolution! BTW love Android Auto in the new car, as I didn't have to pay A$5,000 for sunroof and in-car sat nav this time. Only problem, had to trade up my phone to get the Android connection to work reliably.
Sounds like you'd better hope you got a good one too
As an owner of a Subaru with a CVT, I am very interested in the outcome of this case.
Thank you John for standing up for this couple. And telling it as it is.
What really kills me is that these stupid dealers and MFGs haven’t figured out how the internet works. You can’t hide anymore so wake the fkup Subaru…..
I have a 2017 Outback and I dropped into the local Subaru dealership to get the special manual transmission oil. I say special because the manual says it must be this oil. I was told they just use gear oil. They don’t carry and never stock the special Subaru manual oil. So it seems there dealerships don’t follow the manual. Since the manual transmission shares its oil with the front differential, I used the best differential/ manual gear oil I could buy. After watching this video, I see there no better than every other rip off dealer out there. And this is no different than what Subaru did to all those people that had oil burning Subarus. They lied about the issue. When they knew they had bad low tension rings…..
While working for Nissan, the policy was if any trouble was found with the Jatco CVT it was strictly remove and replace. CVT transmissions have an incredible amount of force on the cones or pulleys inside them. To the point that just disassembling them is very dangerous to the unaware. As far dealership red tape and policies in general, the consumer needs to know a few things. The technician performing any warranty work is taking what is effectively a 1/3 pay cut under warranty. The technician then is saddled with 4 times the documentation requirements taking even more time make even less money in the long run. If a valid cause of why the repair is an issue that voids the warranty it is advantageous for both the technician and manufacturer.
Have a 2014 Forester from new, 2.5 cvt, no issues so far touch wood, and currently looking to buy a new Forester to upgrade to. Very timely video and i will be following this issue extremely closely. Subaru actions and response to this situation will be critical to our purchase and i would have thought probably more importantly,to its own reputation. Your move Subaru.
Maybe the transmission Mob in Melbourne are very familiar with self destructing Subaru transmissions. And may be sworn to secrecy!
There would have to be an NDA as thick as a politician.
Ah, the specially trained transmission sorcerer, who will undoubtedly make the necessary sacrifices to determine the problem, isn't something they would want known to the public.
Finding a virgin sacrifice there in Melb is right out though.
If it had diff oil in the CVT fluid it's hard to imagine any tech (even the apprentice they would have made remove it) not noticing the smell and pollution of the fluid. Having said that, as John said it's completely irrelevant what mechanical failure trashed the transmission - it failed prematurely and wasn't abused.
And either way, having come from dealer land I'm sadly unsurprised that this sort of thing still happens. There's also an assumption on the part of some dealerships that retirees have no idea what they're doing and lots of money so they're an easy target. It's shameful.
If there's anything wrong with the story given to John I'll be interested to see what the response is from the dealership and Subaru.
@@krissteel4074 Possibly more chance of finding a sacrificial virgin in Melbourne, that's why they by-passed Sydney lol :-)
Hey Subaru Australia - up to 317,000 viewers here like me, so keen to hear your response, particularly (like in my case), the new Forester/Outback is on our shortlist to replace our trusty i30 Tourer diesel as our main workhorse … having said that, I cannot help but suspect most manufacturers simply prey on the average consumer’s ignorance of the post 2011 consumer law by chancing their luck and only acting morally when potentially named and shamed (like here). If proven true, this sort of behaviour is surely in keeping with most stealerships chancing their luck with barely carrying out any of the log book service items (behind the big obvious ticket items like oil change/filters etc)?
So do dealers/agents; they HATE warranty work, because it's not profitable. I've told people for years to avoid dealership service departments whenever possible (if the vehicle is out of warranty). It's bad enough under warranty.
Spot on about dealerships doing the bare minimum on service just to get the car through warranty. Half the mechanics are unsupervised kids with poor training. Its all about the margin. The dealerships model must go IMHO. Figure this...if you purchased your new I30 or a corolla (renound reliable cars) and just changed the oil and filter it would last the warranty, aside from consumables. The dealers do very little else I'd suggest.
@@ajcuthy1945 ..well said spot on mate😁
I love my i30 Tourer Diesel, I think I'll keep it until it blows up or I can get a comparable EV for a similar price to what I paid for it (~$12,000).
Got my first service done at the stealership. Never again, they charged me an arm and a leg for an oil and fuel filter change, and tried to tell me that the high price was because they would have to remove the fuel tank to do the filter (the diesel filter is in the engine bay!). When confronted on the matter, the guy said 'Oh I didn't notice it was a diesel.' I had told them when I booked in, and we had this conversation standing behind the tailgate which is clearly marked 'CRDI'. Of course this discussion did not reduce the price...
I now do my services myself.
@@nerd1000ify This sort of s*** makes one's blood boil doesn't it? I can't think of a more dishonest, slimy, no-holds-barred sheer-lying business model there is out there compared to what is practiced by the wider car stealership maintenance mob. Very very hard to feel sorry for these people when things go difficult for them.
Hi John,
Drive a 2015 Forester Turbo Diesel with CVT. Tow up to 1.5T. Change the CVT oil every 50,000km. Now at 150,000km will be changing the CVT oil again. Had no dramas so far!
Dave D
My wife wanted to update the family wagon to a later model legacy, we got the last legacy with a traditional automatic because I had heard so many horrible stories about the CVT transmissions. It's a JDM Legacy GT & we love it & we're dreading the day we have to upgrade.
John, in my pre retirement life I was a member of the IAME and I attended a presentation by Subaru on their CVT’s. It was stated at that presentation that the only authorised organisation to do any repairs were A & B transmissions in Melbourne, when questioned as to why it was they said that they had the only tools available and the required expertise needed to do such repairs. But we were informed that it would be unlikely that they would be needed due to the outstanding Subaru quality.😆
That's good info. Thanks
My wife has started shopping for a new car and she was asking me if Subaru were any good... I'll be telling her to avoid them now.
@@Beer_Dad1975 All manufacturers are 'Bad' because they need extra profits to pay for the compulsory EV mandates coming. So service and build quality has dropped. Add in the chip shortage reducing profits. My advice - buy her a 10k Corolla and pocket the balance.
@@GrahamCampbell-kr2gz She's driving a 20 year old Corolla now 😀 We've had the thing for 14 years, 180,000km and everything on it still works perfectly - but it's a really old car now so she's due for something newer.
@@Beer_Dad1975 we may already have arrived back at a time where fixing an old but more reliable vehicle is better than buying new.
This is par for the course for the Subaru CVT. It's become the new EJ25D head gasket.
When we used to drive outbacks it was always the 2.5 engine head gasket that went first.
Hi John just watched this vid and wanted to relate my experience with a similar issue. I owned a 2000 automatic Liberty, so not CVT. but it also developed a leaky seal between the transmission and the front differential. This vehicle was about 15 years old and over 300,000 kilometers. The leak was discovered because oil was being pumped into the front diff, I assume because of the transmission oil being under pressure and filling the diff up and leaking out the breather. I know these are not similar transmissions, however I would have thought that if the seal was leaking that oil would more likely pass from the transmission to the diff.
I guess I’m the exception but I really like the CVT on my 2013 2.5 Outback. I’ve done 250,000 km now and it’s been a great car to drive. Despite the no recommended service for the CVT I had my mechanic change the transmission fluid a couple of years ago. Probably should have done it sooner. Had to replace front right drive shaft and petrol cap but that’s all. And I’ve towed heavily loaded trailers long distances. Great cruising car that’s marvellous in the snow. Maybe I’ve been lucky but I love my Subaru.
Around 2016, CVTs had well-known reliability issues not just for Subaru but for a lot of other brands as well. One of the big CVT transmission suppliers came out with a faulty design and it gave a lot of people headaches. IIRC, they were corrected sometime around 2018, but I could be wrong. I'm a little bit surprised that John didn't know this considering it caused Subaru to change their warranty and is such an old issue. Scotty Kilmer's channel touches on the subject every now and then as well.
Good point, I had a 2018 Outback Touring that I'd bought new, and we got a letter from Subaru stating that they had increased warranty coverage on the CVT to 10 years and 100,000 miles. I'm in the USA.
My 2011 GEN V with CVT, it went at 257000km a couple years ago or so. Apparently there’s an oil pressure thing in there that moves the belt wheels for the gearing, it stopped working leaving it forever not engaged, like a slipping clutch. Nothing wrong with anything except this module, can’t replace it without pulling apart the entire thing and costing $3000. Apparently on the next model this module was moved to make it easier to fix, but I have no idea if that’s true.
New one, $11000 or so as you say, $3000 for a second hand one.
I thought they’d be better now, maybe not. I love CVTs but not the fkn cost of fixing the fkrs when they fail way before they should. They save a small amount of fuel but not enough to pay for them when they Engadine their pants
That would have been one of the solenoids...can be replaced just need to find the right Subaru mechanic...got mine done for about $1300...
Great video John. That dealership may have a lot of questions to answer.
I have been involved in the used car side of the motor industry for 30 years; as a salesperson, as a licensed dealer buying and selling my own cars and as a trades assistant servicing and fixing cars at a friend’s very busy workshop for the past 3 yeas. I have bought and sold over 100 Subarus and have owned 8 as my own vehicles, though most of mine have been manual transmission including the 2 STI models I have now. I worked at new Subaru dealers in the late 1990s and have driven many different models over the years.
I have been an admirer of the product over the years and, as a dealer who sold them second hand, had to provide used car warranty on vehicles I sold. I had always been happy to offer Subaru products for sale as they were generally a high quality vehicle and were not a warranty concern. I am no longer selling my own vehicles, but I would not stock later model CVT Subaru models if I were. They are known by many in the automotive trades to be very unreliable. I would not recommend any friends or family to buy a CVT Subaru.
I agree with you, John, that Toyota have a good CVT and my experience with Nissan (Renault) is much the same as yours: I wouldn’t touch one. Mitsubishi have also been quite reliable with their CVT autos. Of course, we all know that Ford had a lot of problems with their dual clutch autos in the Focus and Fiesta some years ago and VW/Audi the same.
I hope you elicit a favourable response for this couple as I completely agree with your summary of the poor response they have received so far. The only thing I would add is that new car workshops are known in the trade for being very second rate in their ability to diagnose and fix problems. They take a lot of shortcuts in servicing also,. Capped price servicing options do not include air or cabin filters and I have regularly seen oil filters not changed (known as they have been marked before servicing). Most good workshops will need to carry at least 10 different grades of oil to suit the variety of requirements of modern engines; oil company insiders have told me that a lot of new car service centres only carry 2 - a diesel and a petrol option.
The service interval for a CVT "oil" change has been drastically reduced in ZA (from lifetime to about 80000km) since about a year ago. Wonder why!
Interesting. I did my 2017 Forester's CVT fluid change at 80k (I'm in Canada). The standard interval they recommend is 5 years/100k. A few years ago, they sent a letter increasing warranty coverage to 10 years/160k. We use the vehicle as the family hauler for mostly city / occasional light soft road use, and I'll cross my fingers it holds up.
Shaft seals fail when left dry, and go hard, no matter what it seals. In my view, this is not a problem on all CVT's, but a engineering problem of this particular design.
Oil brands chosen percentage of ester additives in their products play a part in the rubber break down as well. It has been found it tends weaken low silicone content seals faster.
I have 3 Subarus (all manual), a 2005 Impreza WRX (bought third hand), a 2007 Forester X (bought from new), and a 2016 Forester Diesel (bought second hand). The diesel Forester had a DPF issues from not long after I bought it at about 65000km. I believe the previous owner spend the majority in urban areas. So check engine light kept coming on. The car was in and out of the dealer numerous times. It literally spent about 9 months off the road. Eventually the dealer (and Subaru Australia I reckon) decided that it was the DPF issues after all, which they denied initially. So, then, we had to wait for parts coming from Japan. This was at the start of the pandemic, which was not conducive to the freight lines. At the end all came good. The car is fixed. We have no issues so far at close to 130k now, except for a bunked rear shockies and lower control arm at the front after extended travelling and going through rough corrugated tracks here in WA outback. I'm not real keen on CVT, so manual all the way for us. And no, we did not have to pay for any of the DPF repair/replacement, all under warranty.
Thanks John. I'm almost 5 years into my 2nd BMW and the two contenders for our next vehicle are BMW and Suburu (Outback). I've had two minor faults with the 2nd BMW, first was a faulty EGR valve, then the console lid wouldn't stay put (sounds minor but the quote for the replacement lid was $900) and both were out of manufacturers warranty. Anyway, on both occasions BMW performed the repairs at no cost. So, looking forward to the rest of this story as may well make the decision for me.
Keep your BMW a bit longer and I bet it will be your last. German engineering gets extremely expensive as the car ages.
@@robm3357 Fair comment however, here is an example of a Japanese car with potentially a $13,000 repair bill. Sounds extremely expensive to me! If I was unfortunate enough to have a similar failure, I suspect the manufacturer would be a little more obliging. I know the dealership certainly has in the past. Cheers.