You don't buy 911 Targa because you want explicit performance. You buy it because how awesome it looks. When I was a kid I always loved old 911 Targas with this aluminium top. And when I saw that Porsche returned to it with this new design, I jizzed my pants. This Porsche from design perspective is like 3 different cars - coupe, cabrio, hardtop... plus that something more... an X factor. And that makes it quite a deal.
+benzfen I have a 1990 964 C-2 Targa and in my opinion, this is way too complicated. With the 964, it's two snaps and it's off, that's the way to go. Just fold it and stow it in the trunk. No weight increase other than the chassie stiffening Porsche did to compensate for the lose of the roof.
Having a car and learning how to drive it to its max potential outweighs buying an overpowered car, and being restricted to a cruise. I would embrace that extra weight, try to throw it around some, build a more strategic approach to saving time in the corners. A great driving experience should be based on creating a challenge, and not so much an easy to overcome operation. I would buy a car like this to keep it, and if I get used to it, I would go to a race garage and have it tuned.
Let's be honest, if you're buying the Targa, you're buying it because of the style and design of the targa roof, and not for the open air performance. Otherwise, you would have gone for the 911 Cabriolet.
I bought my 991 Targa because of the heritage and the open air feeling. If you know how to drive a Targa, it's the best ever. And as it's a 3.8 GTS, it's rare. And it sounds quite nice. And it's not as huge as a two door Panamera. And it's kind of oldschool inside. 😊
Really great review! Tiff doesn't do too many videos anymore but I really miss his reviews, they're always some of my favorites. Please more reviews from Mr. Needell!
I had no idea he reviewed for evo! I was hoping that the Drive channel could get him on to review sometimes, bit I guess it would be a conflict of interests...
I like Tiff. But this isn't his best review. Apart from the fact that he hasn't been able to shed the snake skin of his typical British bias, testing a four wheel drive Porsche under sunny, dry conditions is err...rather daft. Instead of worrying the whole time about the extra weight, he should have tested the car under typical wet, slippery conditions. Then he would have appreciated that extra 60 kilograms of weight. I think the Targa 4S gives you best of both worlds: Sunny & dry roads, as well as wet, slippery roads- depending on the weather of the day, of course. And would you really feel the extra 190 kg extra weight, while you're touring on a British road? The Targa is a tourer, not a track car per se. And on a philosophical note, Mr Tiff ( Mr Tough?): What exactly constitutes a "proper man's car"???
Hats off to Porsche. They have a clue: They offer a stick shift manual and an old school Targa roof in a new iteration. I was starting to loose hope with all of the dumb PDK/paddle 911s. And the red car here is gorgeous. I love it. Tiff's British bias and nit-picky passive/aggressive whinging aside, I think this is an awesome car.
Then you'd better jump in and grab one while you can, because stick shift manual is disappearing, even in Porsches. The playstation generation is now everybody under 50... Part of the issue, is it costs money to develop and produce a new manual that will handle the power, and more money to develop a twin clutch flappy paddle, and all that money has to come from somewhere... Personally, I have a lust for the GT2 version of the latest 911, but they don't make one yet, and it's rather looking like they're not going to...
Tiff is a snobbish twit., We all know the added weight causes issues, but the car is gorgeous, and that's why we have it. One of the most obnoxious, smug, self-satisfied reviews of anything I've see in a long time. Goofbye, TiffTwitt.
How was he being passive aggressive? Was that just you getting angry because he didn't bum the car? Also Tiff has reviewed a lot of cars where the fuck is evidence of his British bias?
You weren't invited? Our best German freelance reviewer? Shame on you, Porsche! Did you get your invitation to the German presentation in May? I didn't... yet… :/
I was booked for a GT3 test during this event, but that test was canceled two weeks earlier because Porsche is changing all 991 GT3 engines including those of the press cars ;)
Great to see Tiff in this vid. I love how the new Targa looks, but think it's a 911 aimed strictly at those who care not a fig for how a car drives and are primarily concerned with how it looks (or makes them look). Perhaps all 911s are like that these days given that so many of them are automatics, but this one surely rules the clueless roost. Don't know why such a complex roof mechanism is necessary given the weight penalties (albeit it looks pretty cool in operation) and I don't know why it only comes in 4 wheel drive. I do know that the manual 991 Targa that Tiff drove is likely to be the rarest Porsche in existence.
Krunal Rindani Jeremy will poften raise the hell out of borderline British cars you can't buy outside Britain (like Zondas) and then in the middle of his review the electrics go out and he can't start it.
K R You realise Porsche is German... right?! England and Germany don't have a great history of getting along, they get our praise because they make fantastic cars.
Bitch-bitch-bitch... so what did we learn about the targa? Not much. Like about the most we heard about the targa, opposed to other 911s, is that the freaking roof can't be dropped while driving. Are you kidding me? This car is clearly positioned as an all seasons daily driver / GT, hence the 4WD. If you option this car a little, as most people do, you'll hit GT3 pricing easily; so if you know you like the snappier 2WD, then you could buy the GT3 right away. The targa is for people, well, who want a targa... And a Vantage? There comes nothing from a Vantage at higher Autobahn speeds, check a review out... my W124 230E could do that. The Vantage can't drop the roof, it doesn't have 4WD, and a dozen other things; at least compare the Vantage to the C2S. I can't believe this is the first actual targa review, outside the PR clips from Porsche... PS love the AM, best looking car ever (all of them), just not sure what it's got to do here as a supposed alternative for an open roof 4WD car, where it is a completely different concept.
Great video Tiff. You tell us the positive and negative as it is. That is all we want. The plus is how you make us understand the feeling of car, something only a true driver can. Thanks.
Hmm it is too heavy and that roof mechanism should work while driving - but just today I saw one in black and subjective yes, but it looked really really good. Tiff is right about a RWD version of it - That would make sense to where most of these Targa´s will be sold. Even here in Germany people opting for a Targa will properly mostly use it in the summertime. IMO red is not the color for this model, it needs a more expensive expression to play with the Targa Metal Panel, From black over Metal Browns and Metal Grey´s and some of the toned down Blues - You do not buy this car with pure speed and agility in mind as first priorities - It´s just as much a luxury and sporty leisure statement made for where the sun is shining. I like the 991 Series in General - 911 have become more elegant than ever (not including the classics for their own beauty of time) and this Targa is perhaps the most beautiful of them all. Would I want´one, No not me, I would take a sports monster, a GT3, Turbo or GTS - But the Black Targa I Saw today on the roads of Berlin got my head turning twice and I was wondering why since it´s was "just" a 911 and we have pretty many of those in Berlin.
I have no idea how you brits can stand to listen to Tiff for more than 2 minutes. He's so over-the-top campy and affected it comes off like a parody of "bad British TV presenters" to an American. Everyone else on Evo is by contrast fairly staid and contained. Chris Harris (now on Drive) is even better. But Needell is a goof. His only saving grace is that he's an actual driver. I lived in London for a while and would often get ribbed about the stereotypical American TV-commercial, hyperbolic Sales-Guy shtick (e.g. "ITS TOYOTATHON TUESDAY! 24 HOURS OF CARS! AND THEY ALL MUST GO!Go!go!") When I pointed out that England tabloid news was even more ridiculously low-brow than US versions, and that their TV was oozing with foppish cads like Needell, they'd sniff and act like these things were rare exceptions. They're NOT. You *love them*. :) You call it "personality". Ha.
That was funny, lol. The thing is US and England have a lot of media power in the world and you being stereotypical for the rest of the world is natural. No other country influence media as much as your countries. To the point that you even stereotype each other :) Imagine turning on TV or any sort of media and seeing or hearing it 50% of the time. Finnaly you see and understand that TOYOTATHON or over-the-top campy.
Duncan Pitfield I know about his racing career, which I alluded to. I also saw him on 5th Gear for years. Which is what my comment is based on - not this one video.
Let's be honest, if you took a Targa, you want fresh air, not ultimate performance, so, the 4WD is a good choices: open road for summer, 4wd for winter, enough power and grip to enjoy very very quick driving and a unique design.....
Fantastic review! Nice to see Tiff doing proper reviews instead of those silly ones from fifth gear where he has 3 minutes to tell something about the car.. Awesome! Would like to see more of Tiff's reviews on EVO
The Brits are always biased. The P1 always gets better ratings than the 918 even when they themselves get the 918 round a track quicker in their comparos.
Astralwurksdk That is nonsense, here in Britain we love German cars, practically everyones got one. I drive through a rich area to work and everyone drives a 911 or a Ferrari. The 918 has received great reviews from British motoring journalists, especially on Top Gear. But the P1 was faster in a straight line against the 918 and faster around the angalsy race track with EVO. That doesn't mean the 918 is a piece of shit. Allot of head to heads done by British journalists dose involve the German/Italian cars winning yet when a British car wins everyone accuses them of being bias. MT is biased towards American cars as they named a Camero as their car of the year.
Astralwurksdk Another salty American. Jethro Bovington, the BRITISH guy who tested the P1 AND the 918 Spyder at Anglesey for a track battle, complained about the lack of grip and the massive turbo lag of the P1 while praised the 918's clever torque vectoring and its rear-wheel-biased 4-wheel drive. I don't see how you would put this comment underneath this video as it's about a Porsche 911 Targa 4S, but yet all these false and ignorant nonsense I've seen against all the British car journalists are far too unnecessary and annoying to see these days. Even more hilarious is that 15 people liked your comment, I'm sure more people have seen that video of Jethro testing the P1 and the 918 than those who blatantly believe British just can't review cars and are always biased. One advice: stick to any of the American car journalists you find on TH-cam, I promise you to have way less satisfaction watching their videos filled with trashy and unwanted music effects and silly jokes that just try way too hard, nonetheless their only word to describe good cars: awesome.
***** They named the camero car of the year because they are completely biased, even most Americans admit that. A BMW or Jag F-type would completely destroy a camero. And as for the price, you get what you pay for. And theres nothing wrong with turbos, they don't ruin the driving experience, they improve performance and are better for emissions. Everyone wins.
+Will James you clearly don't know what a camaro ZL1 is... it will destory any jaguar and even a 458 around a track. look it up. it creamed a GT-R as well.
Kenton V. Okay, I'll look it up then. Oh deer... Camero ZL1 0-60 - 7.1 seconds Jag F-type 0-60 - 5.7 seconds Jag F-type Coupe R 0-60 3.4 seconds Ferrari 458 0-60 - 3.0 seconds Nissan GTR 0-60 - 4.7 seconds Top Speed Camero ZL1: 184mph Jaguar F-type: 171mph Jaguar F-type Coupe R: 186mph Ferrari 458: 199mph Nissan GTR: 195mph Nurburgring Camaro ZL1: 7: 41 Jaguar F-type Coupe R: 7:39 Ferrari 458: 7:38 Ferrari 458 Speciale 7:36 Nissan GTR 7:19 I couldn't find the lap time for the standard V6 F-type however MT tested the Coupe R so included that a well. I hope this ha been helpful.
One thing you have to think about that this roof design the first iteration. Porsche isn't going to perfect it and then release the design. The car would have to cost even more if they did that. As time goes on they will make it lighter, and will be able to make it open whilst driving. Hats off to Porsche for doing something original rather than doing the same idea over and over again.
Tejas Tasgaonkar It's true though, saying the 911 hasn't changed is nonsense. What's similarities does the 991 have with its 60's counterpart? A similar body shape, and the RR layout. That's about it.
Tejas Tasgaonkar It is called evolution. The design has changed quite a bit. The back isn't as steep, the car is wider and longer, and the headlights aren't as vertical. The are a number of other things but those are just a few. The idea is the same, yes. What is the point in making a design for one year and then moving on to a new one the next year. If everyone were to do that, cars would still be like they were in the 50's. The previous roof design pretty much reached its limits and so they are starting a new design and they will take that one to its limits and then move on. Evolution; it isn't just present in animals.
Just drove a 2015 4S Targa this past weekend for possible purchase. The wind noise is horrible. There is also resonating at times. Was very disappointed. Didn't mind the price, it just wasn't the car I thought it would be. Current ride is Porsche number 7, a 2013 Cab S
Well said Tiff! I would put the luxury of Aston !Martin first and the beauty and brawn of the F-Type R Jaguar second. Or? Was that the other way around? Anyway you make great reviews! Keep them coming please!
An aston, really? The biggest pile of shit you could name. Great looking i know but anyone who thinks an aston is a good car for the $ over its rivals is full of it or very biased (nothing wrong with that, but that depreciation). Although with AMG coming in, aston will get a much needed protein shake in the motor and gear box department. The targa 4s, a car for boring/old Porsche owners who prefer glass and weight over performance. My money is on f type r, what a great looking, sounding, performing car for a "decent" price.
Tiff might be one of the original hoonigans. He complains about extra weight and AWD cause he wants a light RWD car he can slide around. If you don't know him then look up his career info on wiki and watch some now old 5th Gear episodes.
Boy do I get happy when I see a car review done with a proper manual transmission. 7MT FTW !! Not in favour of the AWD or the PDK. Saps the fun and connection out of a car as great as the 911. Beautiful targa model, saw it at the Detroit Auto Show and was a showstopper. Love the way they did the targa top with that fancy roll bar thing.
I too am a romantic regarding the manuel tranmission, but 647killa, we better get used to the DSG/PDK´s, they are here to stay, and in not many years the manual is totally gone.
Anders Olsson I don't think it'll be totally gone, just reserved for specific models and cars. The days of MT Accords and Kia Souls, at least in the State, is probably close to an end, but I would guess Miatas, WRXs and other 20-30k dollar cars will still offer it for years to come.
Hey, I love the used market. I can afford to buy all my childhood cars now with less driver aids and s proper manual tranny. Who cares about 'that new car smell' and I will of course never give in to the whole dsg/pdk crap. I took a dsg equipped GTI for a week from my uncle's used car dealership. Boy was I bored to death flicking stupid buttons to change gears. I left it in auto most of the time and didn't even care for it on traffic. I drive a stick shift in heavy Toronto traffic everyday and it doesn't bother me. The manual tranny may be gone from the high end cars, but the cheaper cars like the miata, frs/brz, genesis coupe, focus st, fiesta st etc are more fin and involving to drive than any of these so called 'supercars' which are driven by people who can't even tell what's under the hood of their 'supercar.' If you stand for nothing, you will fall for everything.' BMW made a smart decision to offer north Americans with manual M5s and M6s. Our wallets are voting, so vote with your wallets.
If it's your weekend car than manual is fine. But if it's your only car it gets a bit tricky. If you drive a lot in traffic jams you need that auto/dual clutch. If you mostly drive outside big cities you can make it with manual. Often it's a necessity, not something you want but are forced to choose.
Cars are easy to drive now hydraulic clutches take as much effort as the gas pedal to press. I drive in heavy 401 east traffic in Toronto and have never missed an auto or asked for a DSG. Traffic is jusy a minor nuissance compared to all my other driving and the sacrifice of a manual ain't worth it. I drive a 2002 M3 and a 2000 328i both manual. I guess I'm not that lazy and lets face it, no one likes traffic even if u have an autonomous vehicle lol.
Just watched this review again,an excellent one from our favourite ex-race car driver-now-hoonigan Tiff Needell ! It's hard to not love a work done by him
cool, EVO has (in his own way) the "flair" back in their testvids that they lost with Harris, in the form of Tiff Needel "Thumbs-up" i LOVE the looks of the new Targa, BUT i think they took a very un-Porsche like way, by making it a automatic electric roof, making it unneccesary heavy, and eliminating the ducktail option doing so, ya buy a Porsche for the "driverscar" it is, then ya don't mind a lill xtra work by taking off tha lill roofpanel by hand
Don't like the new targa system, it's basically the same as cabrio only with that rear glass. It's pretty, true, but technically the same. Looks nice, I have to give them that. Great video btw
Nag, nag, nag about those kilograms... Tiff, a Targa 4 buyer, even the one buying a 4S, WANTS a Targa. Nothing else. If he or she has problems with extra weight, he/she would buy a 911 GTS 3 or a circuit version stripped of all luxury. Tiff Needell seemingly can't put himself into the shoes of the prospective buyer of this, rather wonderful, supercar that the 911 Targa 4 is. Porsche again has outdone itself in presenting a soon to be classic masterpiece. Nothing less than that!
I sort of kinda quite a lot hate the way this looks. In my opinion the 911 only looks good in hardtop form. Other than that- awesome review Tiff, always love your reviews. So many automotive journalists are too afraid to say anything negative about a car- its refreshing to hear an honest opinion.
I'd buy my self a second hand; Ferrari F430 Spider equipped with Ferraris last generation OpenGate. Red sportscar, midmounted V8, RWD, 9000rpm, rifflegear throw.. yup, that ill do for me:)
Finally...a proper, old-school Tiff Needell car review that doesn't pander to an audience with zero attention span. Thanks for finally bringing back thoughtful commentary with clips that last more than half a second each. Of course, if he returned to his 1990s car review style (e.g. his review of the original Acura NSX), that would be even better.
80% of driving is with top up. After 5 years with a cabrio I went Targa because it's the best of both worlds; quieter with top up but when stowed totally like a cabrio. Yes, a fraction perf loss but 4WD makes for Boxter-like stickiness.
I have to admit, Tiff! Even if I'm German and should love the Porsche... but none of the modern beetles can match the Astons personality and looks! BTW, I absolutely prefer the reviews on real roads (especially the italian mountain roads) because this is where I spend time with my cars and not on the racetrack. The manufacturers should have the real driving conditions in mind rather than just topping the Nürburg-Ring lap times every year. Hope to see and read a lot more from you!
Porsche is a "driverscar" so if ya wanna go beter in a roofless driverscar you would have to go BAC Mono, Cat superlight, Ariël atom, Lotus or best Donkervoort GTO .-)
Aston Martin a proper man's car. Why has Aston Martin filed for bankruptcy seven times? Pains me to say that as a British citizen, I will stick with Porsche.
People who buy Targas aren’t buying a Porsche for the ultimate Porsche performance experience. They buy the Targa because it’s one of the most elegant, beautiful and enjoyable open top cars on the road. 911’s are glorious, but among them ... the Targa stands out as a pure beauty.
Evo, you guys need to have Tiff on your team, continue to bolster your digital proposition with him as your front man and push through the loss to DRIVETRIBE.
Over here in Germany only mid-sixties dentist's wifes drive such cars!! and of course these guys who past their best years by 30 years and want to be cool again.... but it only looks ridiculous!!! They go for the automatic not because it is faster but because they are not capable to press the clutch any longer than 5 seconds!!
AWESOME!....dissing Porsche @ the end of the video..."id buy the Aston Martin..."! Im sure Porsche will appreciate the review! I do appreciate the honesty!
I thought Tiff was cleverer than that, it weighs only 90kg more than the equivalent coupe, not much of a penalty when you consider all the extra strengthening that the body needs.
Cool but over engineered targa roof mechanism. Would love to see an RWD version with carbon fiber panels and the fixed targa window and rollbar. I would use the money on an 981 Boxster GTS or S or a base Boxster and drop the 3.8l 991 engine in (BGB conversion or Ruf3800). Mid-engine Porsche handling, lower weight and 911 power output ;)
TIFF Needell was the very first motoring journalist that exuded the passion for cars as I do at a young age. He has and still is number 1 in my book. He just LOVES DRIVING and that's what we all enjoy at the end of the day. Thanks EVO for bringing him into what was already my favorite motoring magazine/youtube team in EVO. Well Done
I would LOVE TO SEE the raw onboard shot from behind the driver. About 15 mins of ONLY raw onboard shots would really be awesome for the more enthusiast/nerdy group of watchers
Nicely done Tiff- thank you ! I personally get it why a person would want a Targa. I think it great that Porsche has chosen to still offer such a model. I love the sound of that special exhaust !
Ditch the the 4wd (or at least relegate it to an option), roof motors. Keep the wrap around rear screen, silver/black rollover hoop. Add a carbon fibre roof panel and bingo-bango you get the 911 Targa Porsche should have made.
I just love the "roadster aspect" I guess. Owned 2 914s decades ago and (just) remember the booming. TransAM with T top the same. Best had to be a TR-2. putting your cigs out on the freeway...
Although i like the look of the Targa, id prefer a full blown convertible and i think having to have all wheel drive will put some customers off The saving grace about the 991 over the Jag and Aston Martins, this has an extra 2 seats in the back
You don't buy 911 Targa because you want explicit performance. You buy it because how awesome it looks. When I was a kid I always loved old 911 Targas with this aluminium top. And when I saw that Porsche returned to it with this new design, I jizzed my pants.
This Porsche from design perspective is like 3 different cars - coupe, cabrio, hardtop... plus that something more... an X factor. And that makes it quite a deal.
+deXter2 For explicit performance buy 2015-Jaguar-F-Types-S-Coupe. And it looks awesome too.
+deXter2 The last good 911 targa was 964 there is no point to buy this one
+deXter2 AMEN to that.
+benzfen
I have a 1990 964 C-2 Targa and in my opinion, this is way too complicated. With the 964, it's two snaps and it's off, that's the way to go. Just fold it and stow it in the trunk. No weight increase other than the chassie stiffening Porsche did to compensate for the lose of the roof.
+deXter2 I have a 2015 targa 4 and it looks awesome when it opens
Although not as fast as the coupe, I would still go for this one, I love the looks.
TIFF is the best of the best!!!
Having a car and learning how to drive it to its max potential outweighs buying an overpowered car, and being restricted to a cruise. I would embrace that extra weight, try to throw it around some, build a more strategic approach to saving time in the corners. A great driving experience should be based on creating a challenge, and not so much an easy to overcome operation. I would buy a car like this to keep it, and if I get used to it, I would go to a race garage and have it tuned.
Let's be honest, if you're buying the Targa, you're buying it because of the style and design of the targa roof, and not for the open air performance. Otherwise, you would have gone for the 911 Cabriolet.
I think the cabriolet is hideous, so I would prefer the TARGA... but i prefer the coupes the most
Targa is hideous unless of course it's a 993. The 991 cab is amazing! Even nicer than the coupe, so there!
I bought my 991 Targa because of the heritage and the open air feeling. If you know how to drive a Targa, it's the best ever. And as it's a 3.8 GTS, it's rare. And it sounds quite nice. And it's not as huge as a two door Panamera. And it's kind of oldschool inside. 😊
Really great review! Tiff doesn't do too many videos anymore but I really miss his reviews, they're always some of my favorites. Please more reviews from Mr. Needell!
Agreed
do u have the hots for tif?
Tiff chopped this one up analytically pretty well. Nice conclusion about the weight - make it 2S as it will be lighter :) Make the facelift 2S!
Foer Hoen ...yes.
Agreed...he is a class act and really knows his stuff
Uncle Tiff is just the best
I had no idea he reviewed for evo! I was hoping that the Drive channel could get him on to review sometimes, bit I guess it would be a conflict of interests...
I like Tiff. But this isn't his best review. Apart from the fact that he hasn't been able to shed the snake skin of his typical British bias, testing a four wheel drive Porsche under sunny, dry conditions is err...rather daft. Instead of worrying the whole time about the extra weight, he should have tested the car under typical wet, slippery conditions. Then he would have appreciated that extra 60 kilograms of weight. I think the Targa 4S gives you best of both worlds: Sunny & dry roads, as well as wet, slippery roads- depending on the weather of the day, of course. And would you really feel the extra 190 kg extra weight, while you're touring on a British road? The Targa is a tourer, not a track car per se. And on a philosophical note, Mr Tiff ( Mr Tough?): What exactly constitutes a "proper man's car"???
Hats off to Porsche. They have a clue: They offer a stick shift manual and an old school Targa roof in a new iteration. I was starting to loose hope with all of the dumb PDK/paddle 911s. And the red car here is gorgeous. I love it. Tiff's British bias and nit-picky passive/aggressive whinging aside, I think this is an awesome car.
So agree on that.
Then you'd better jump in and grab one while you can, because stick shift manual is disappearing, even in Porsches. The playstation generation is now everybody under 50... Part of the issue, is it costs money to develop and produce a new manual that will handle the power, and more money to develop a twin clutch flappy paddle, and all that money has to come from somewhere... Personally, I have a lust for the GT2 version of the latest 911, but they don't make one yet, and it's rather looking like they're not going to...
Tiff is a snobbish twit., We all know the added weight causes issues, but the car is gorgeous, and that's why we have it. One of the most obnoxious, smug, self-satisfied reviews of anything I've see in a long time. Goofbye, TiffTwitt.
@@jonshepard85 LOL how hurt can you get?
How was he being passive aggressive? Was that just you getting angry because he didn't bum the car? Also Tiff has reviewed a lot of cars where the fuck is evidence of his British bias?
Tiff is the best!
Too bad I wasn't invited to this driving event. Outstanding car and Tiff is my favourite reviewer !
You weren't invited? Our best German freelance reviewer? Shame on you, Porsche!
Did you get your invitation to the German presentation in May? I didn't... yet… :/
I was booked for a GT3 test during this event, but that test was canceled two weeks earlier because Porsche is changing all 991 GT3 engines including those of the press cars ;)
Aww, I was waiting for you to put out a review for one of these. Hopefully you get your hands on one soon!
TheGetawayer Why are they changing the engines?
Reviewers are demanding a Targa 2S. Lighter and more fun.
Great to see Tiff in this vid. I love how the new Targa looks, but think it's a 911 aimed strictly at those who care not a fig for how a car drives and are primarily concerned with how it looks (or makes them look). Perhaps all 911s are like that these days given that so many of them are automatics, but this one surely rules the clueless roost. Don't know why such a complex roof mechanism is necessary given the weight penalties (albeit it looks pretty cool in operation) and I don't know why it only comes in 4 wheel drive. I do know that the manual 991 Targa that Tiff drove is likely to be the rarest Porsche in existence.
Tiff is one of the best
Unless he's reviewing an English car of course....
lynx tamer Almost all English reviewers are biased towards the cars made in their countries. It's normal :)
Krunal Rindani Jeremy will poften raise the hell out of borderline British cars you can't buy outside Britain (like Zondas) and then in the middle of his review the electrics go out and he can't start it.
K R You realise Porsche is German... right?! England and Germany don't have a great history of getting along, they get our praise because they make fantastic cars.
Glenn Havinoviski Zonda, borderline British?! 😂 WTF?!!!
Clicked because of Tiff. Nothing more.
and not for the car? just the dude?
***** Yeah. Nothing wrong in liking men.
pavettto if a man likes another man, everything is wrong! It doesn't work 👉👈
Rottensteam What's wrong in it? Does it hurt your feelings to see some manly love? It works just as well as man loving a woman.
pavettto no it doesn't.
Sir Needell is a gem! Thank you EVO!
Bitch-bitch-bitch... so what did we learn about the targa? Not much. Like about the most we heard about the targa, opposed to other 911s, is that the freaking roof can't be dropped while driving. Are you kidding me? This car is clearly positioned as an all seasons daily driver / GT, hence the 4WD. If you option this car a little, as most people do, you'll hit GT3 pricing easily; so if you know you like the snappier 2WD, then you could buy the GT3 right away. The targa is for people, well, who want a targa...
And a Vantage? There comes nothing from a Vantage at higher Autobahn speeds, check a review out... my W124 230E could do that. The Vantage can't drop the roof, it doesn't have 4WD, and a dozen other things; at least compare the Vantage to the C2S. I can't believe this is the first actual targa review, outside the PR clips from Porsche...
PS love the AM, best looking car ever (all of them), just not sure what it's got to do here as a supposed alternative for an open roof 4WD car, where it is a completely different concept.
Tiff reviewing for EVO?
Yep. He has been involved with EVO for some time. Was involved in ECoTY 2013 too. #Legend.
Tiff Needell!!! We missed you sir. Please come back more often!
"aston martin v8 roadster. now that's a proper man's car" as he heel and toes into a corner like a SIR.
I love Tiff! :D
Great video Tiff. You tell us the positive and negative as it is. That is all we want. The plus is how you make us understand the feeling of car, something only a true driver can. Thanks.
Hmm it is too heavy and that roof mechanism should work while driving - but just today I saw one in black and subjective yes, but it looked really really good. Tiff is right about a RWD version of it - That would make sense to where most of these Targa´s will be sold. Even here in Germany people opting for a Targa will properly mostly use it in the summertime. IMO red is not the color for this model, it needs a more expensive expression to play with the Targa Metal Panel, From black over Metal Browns and Metal Grey´s and some of the toned down Blues - You do not buy this car with pure speed and agility in mind as first priorities - It´s just as much a luxury and sporty leisure statement made for where the sun is shining. I like the 991 Series in General - 911 have become more elegant than ever (not including the classics for their own beauty of time) and this Targa is perhaps the most beautiful of them all. Would I want´one, No not me, I would take a sports monster, a GT3, Turbo or GTS - But the Black Targa I Saw today on the roads of Berlin got my head turning twice and I was wondering why since it´s was "just" a 911 and we have pretty many of those in Berlin.
The Targa is just the most beautiful car out there. So who cares if it weights 100kg more.
+Vega Lyra Sorry then the Porsche is not the car you...
that's what I said to your mamma
lars marten tbh I didn’t think it looked that great but today I saw one in person and damn it was gorgeous!
I have no idea how you brits can stand to listen to Tiff for more than 2 minutes. He's so over-the-top campy and affected it comes off like a parody of "bad British TV presenters" to an American. Everyone else on Evo is by contrast fairly staid and contained. Chris Harris (now on Drive) is even better. But Needell is a goof. His only saving grace is that he's an actual driver. I lived in London for a while and would often get ribbed about the stereotypical American TV-commercial, hyperbolic Sales-Guy shtick (e.g. "ITS TOYOTATHON TUESDAY! 24 HOURS OF CARS! AND THEY ALL MUST GO!Go!go!") When I pointed out that England tabloid news was even more ridiculously low-brow than US versions, and that their TV was oozing with foppish cads like Needell, they'd sniff and act like these things were rare exceptions. They're NOT. You *love them*. :) You call it "personality". Ha.
That was funny, lol. The thing is US and England have a lot of media power in the world and you being stereotypical for the rest of the world is natural. No other country influence media as much as your countries. To the point that you even stereotype each other :)
Imagine turning on TV or any sort of media and seeing or hearing it 50% of the time. Finnaly you see and understand that TOYOTATHON or over-the-top campy.
He's always been a bit camp sounding but some people do... Do you know about his career and ability?
Duncan Pitfield I know about his racing career, which I alluded to. I also saw him on 5th Gear for years. Which is what my comment is based on - not this one video.
At least he doesn't make me feel sick like almost all American tv presenters.
Duncan Pitfield Sorry to hear that. Any you care to name?
F Type V8 for me. I'd get it just for the noise and the looks.
I just realized, I miss Tiff Needel's reviews. He's still with 5th gear right? :D
Tiff Needell is the best. we need him in the evo battles, again!
tiff and Chris Harris are the best for reviews
More videos from Tiff please, a proper drivers review!
Let's be honest, if you took a Targa, you want fresh air, not ultimate performance, so, the 4WD is a good choices: open road for summer, 4wd for winter, enough power and grip to enjoy very very quick driving and a unique design.....
Fantastic review! Nice to see Tiff doing proper reviews instead of those silly ones from fifth gear where he has 3 minutes to tell something about the car..
Awesome! Would like to see more of Tiff's reviews on EVO
This is honestly the only Porsche I could spend my own money on!
GT3RS. That is all.
Please tell me Tiff will be on EVO a bit more often.
Tuff Noodles is the best.
The Brits are always biased. The P1 always gets better ratings than the 918 even when they themselves get the 918 round a track quicker in their comparos.
Astralwurksdk That is nonsense, here in Britain we love German cars, practically everyones got one. I drive through a rich area to work and everyone drives a 911 or a Ferrari. The 918 has received great reviews from British motoring journalists, especially on Top Gear. But the P1 was faster in a straight line against the 918 and faster around the angalsy race track with EVO. That doesn't mean the 918 is a piece of shit. Allot of head to heads done by British journalists dose involve the German/Italian cars winning yet when a British car wins everyone accuses them of being bias. MT is biased towards American cars as they named a Camero as their car of the year.
Astralwurksdk Another salty American. Jethro Bovington, the BRITISH guy who tested the P1 AND the 918 Spyder at Anglesey for a track battle, complained about the lack of grip and the massive turbo lag of the P1 while praised the 918's clever torque vectoring and its rear-wheel-biased 4-wheel drive. I don't see how you would put this comment underneath this video as it's about a Porsche 911 Targa 4S, but yet all these false and ignorant nonsense I've seen against all the British car journalists are far too unnecessary and annoying to see these days. Even more hilarious is that 15 people liked your comment, I'm sure more people have seen that video of Jethro testing the P1 and the 918 than those who blatantly believe British just can't review cars and are always biased. One advice: stick to any of the American car journalists you find on TH-cam, I promise you to have way less satisfaction watching their videos filled with trashy and unwanted music effects and silly jokes that just try way too hard, nonetheless their only word to describe good cars: awesome.
***** They named the camero car of the year because they are completely biased, even most Americans admit that. A BMW or Jag F-type would completely destroy a camero. And as for the price, you get what you pay for. And theres nothing wrong with turbos, they don't ruin the driving experience, they improve performance and are better for emissions. Everyone wins.
+Will James you clearly don't know what a camaro ZL1 is... it will destory any jaguar and even a 458 around a track. look it up. it creamed a GT-R as well.
Kenton V. Okay, I'll look it up then. Oh deer...
Camero ZL1 0-60 - 7.1 seconds
Jag F-type 0-60 - 5.7 seconds
Jag F-type Coupe R 0-60 3.4 seconds
Ferrari 458 0-60 - 3.0 seconds
Nissan GTR 0-60 - 4.7 seconds
Top Speed
Camero ZL1: 184mph
Jaguar F-type: 171mph
Jaguar F-type Coupe R: 186mph
Ferrari 458: 199mph
Nissan GTR: 195mph
Nurburgring
Camaro ZL1: 7: 41
Jaguar F-type Coupe R: 7:39
Ferrari 458: 7:38
Ferrari 458 Speciale 7:36
Nissan GTR 7:19
I couldn't find the lap time for the standard V6 F-type however MT tested the Coupe R so included that a well. I hope this ha been helpful.
i personally love the Targa, but would never buy one in that ugly red color.
One thing you have to think about that this roof design the first iteration. Porsche isn't going to perfect it and then release the design. The car would have to cost even more if they did that. As time goes on they will make it lighter, and will be able to make it open whilst driving. Hats off to Porsche for doing something original rather than doing the same idea over and over again.
But they are doing the same idea over and over again. The design on the 911 hasn't changed since the 60s.
Tejas Tasgaonkar
When did Jeremy Clarkson change his name to Tejas Tasgaonkar?
The favorite defence of Porsche fanboys. They immediately tell you to stop copying Clarkson
Tejas Tasgaonkar
It's true though, saying the 911 hasn't changed is nonsense. What's similarities does the 991 have with its 60's counterpart? A similar body shape, and the RR layout. That's about it.
Tejas Tasgaonkar It is called evolution. The design has changed quite a bit. The back isn't as steep, the car is wider and longer, and the headlights aren't as vertical. The are a number of other things but those are just a few. The idea is the same, yes. What is the point in making a design for one year and then moving on to a new one the next year. If everyone were to do that, cars would still be like they were in the 50's. The previous roof design pretty much reached its limits and so they are starting a new design and they will take that one to its limits and then move on. Evolution; it isn't just present in animals.
Ugh. Why couldn't they make a targa without the motors?
Just drove a 2015 4S Targa this past weekend for possible purchase. The wind noise is horrible. There is also resonating at times. Was very disappointed. Didn't mind the price, it just wasn't the car I thought it would be. Current ride is Porsche number 7, a 2013 Cab S
Well said Tiff! I would put the luxury of Aston !Martin first and the beauty and brawn of the F-Type R Jaguar second. Or? Was that the other way around? Anyway you make great reviews! Keep them coming please!
An aston, really? The biggest pile of shit you could name. Great looking i know but anyone who thinks an aston is a good car for the $ over its rivals is full of it or very biased (nothing wrong with that, but that depreciation). Although with AMG coming in, aston will get a much needed protein shake in the motor and gear box department. The targa 4s, a car for boring/old Porsche owners who prefer glass and weight over performance. My money is on f type r, what a great looking, sounding, performing car for a "decent" price.
i can't understand a word those bloke is saying
helo is so gorlles l lovet thenyue
The rear windshield reminds me of an AMC pacer. I mean that as a compliment, both the 991 Targa and pacer are funky/cool.
the vantage is an old and not anymore competitive design. I'd go for a Boxter S and a Golf R for that money
Aston are show ponies
Tiff might be one of the original hoonigans. He complains about extra weight and AWD cause he wants a light RWD car he can slide around. If you don't know him then look up his career info on wiki and watch some now old 5th Gear episodes.
Boy do I get happy when I see a car review done with a proper manual transmission. 7MT FTW !! Not in favour of the AWD or the PDK. Saps the fun and connection out of a car as great as the 911. Beautiful targa model, saw it at the Detroit Auto Show and was a showstopper. Love the way they did the targa top with that fancy roll bar thing.
I too am a romantic regarding the manuel tranmission, but 647killa, we better get used to the DSG/PDK´s, they are here to stay, and in not many years the manual is totally gone.
Anders Olsson I don't think it'll be totally gone, just reserved for specific models and cars. The days of MT Accords and Kia Souls, at least in the State, is probably close to an end, but I would guess Miatas, WRXs and other 20-30k dollar cars will still offer it for years to come.
Hey, I love the used market. I can afford to buy all my childhood cars now with less driver aids and s proper manual tranny. Who cares about 'that new car smell' and I will of course never give in to the whole dsg/pdk crap. I took a dsg equipped GTI for a week from my uncle's used car dealership. Boy was I bored to death flicking stupid buttons to change gears. I left it in auto most of the time and didn't even care for it on traffic. I drive a stick shift in heavy Toronto traffic everyday and it doesn't bother me. The manual tranny may be gone from the high end cars, but the cheaper cars like the miata, frs/brz, genesis coupe, focus st, fiesta st etc are more fin and involving to drive than any of these so called 'supercars' which are driven by people who can't even tell what's under the hood of their 'supercar.' If you stand for nothing, you will fall for everything.' BMW made a smart decision to offer north Americans with manual M5s and M6s. Our wallets are voting, so vote with your wallets.
If it's your weekend car than manual is fine. But if it's your only car it gets a bit tricky. If you drive a lot in traffic jams you need that auto/dual clutch. If you mostly drive outside big cities you can make it with manual. Often it's a necessity, not something you want but are forced to choose.
Cars are easy to drive now hydraulic clutches take as much effort as the gas pedal to press. I drive in heavy 401 east traffic in Toronto and have never missed an auto or asked for a DSG. Traffic is jusy a minor nuissance compared to all my other driving and the sacrifice of a manual ain't worth it. I drive a 2002 M3 and a 2000 328i both manual. I guess I'm not that lazy and lets face it, no one likes traffic even if u have an autonomous vehicle lol.
WE NEED MORE TIFF NEEDELL AND CHRIS HARRIS.
Just watched this review again,an excellent one from our favourite ex-race car driver-now-hoonigan Tiff Needell ! It's hard to not love a work done by him
Tiff did an awesome job with this review. I like him better solo than on fifth gear,
Tiff is the biggest blessing to automotive journalism.
Tiff's delivery is and always will be legendary! :)
Nice car! Really like the way Tiff reviews his cars...
cool, EVO has (in his own way) the "flair" back in their testvids that they lost with Harris, in the form of Tiff Needel "Thumbs-up"
i LOVE the looks of the new Targa, BUT i think they took a very un-Porsche like way, by making it a automatic electric roof, making it unneccesary heavy, and eliminating the ducktail option doing so, ya buy a Porsche for the "driverscar" it is, then ya don't mind a lill xtra work by taking off tha lill roofpanel by hand
Don't like the new targa system, it's basically the same as cabrio only with that rear glass. It's pretty, true, but technically the same. Looks nice, I have to give them that. Great video btw
I was more excited to see Tiff than the car. That guy is class
Nag, nag, nag about those kilograms... Tiff, a Targa 4 buyer, even the one buying a 4S, WANTS a Targa. Nothing else. If he or she has problems with extra weight, he/she would buy a 911 GTS 3 or a circuit version stripped of all luxury. Tiff Needell seemingly can't put himself into the shoes of the prospective buyer of this, rather wonderful, supercar that the 911 Targa 4 is. Porsche again has outdone itself in presenting a soon to be classic masterpiece. Nothing less than that!
I sort of kinda quite a lot hate the way this looks. In my opinion the 911 only looks good in hardtop form.
Other than that- awesome review Tiff, always love your reviews. So many automotive journalists are too afraid to say anything negative about a car- its refreshing to hear an honest opinion.
I'd buy my self a second hand;
Ferrari F430 Spider equipped with Ferraris last generation OpenGate. Red sportscar, midmounted V8, RWD, 9000rpm, rifflegear throw.. yup, that ill do for me:)
this guy should have been brought back on the new top gear
Finally...a proper, old-school Tiff Needell car review that doesn't pander to an audience with zero attention span. Thanks for finally bringing back thoughtful commentary with clips that last more than half a second each. Of course, if he returned to his 1990s car review style (e.g. his review of the original Acura NSX), that would be even better.
80% of driving is with top up. After 5 years with a cabrio I went Targa because it's the best of both worlds; quieter with top up but when stowed totally like a cabrio. Yes, a fraction perf loss but 4WD makes for Boxter-like stickiness.
I have to admit, Tiff! Even if I'm German and should love the Porsche... but none of the modern beetles can match the Astons personality and looks! BTW, I absolutely prefer the reviews on real roads (especially the italian mountain roads) because this is where I spend time with my cars and not on the racetrack. The manufacturers should have the real driving conditions in mind rather than just topping the Nürburg-Ring lap times every year. Hope to see and read a lot more from you!
He's comparing apples and oranges !
It's only 20 kilo heavier than the equivalent cabriolet and 90 kilos heavier than the equivalent 4S coupe !
For this price tag i'd go for a used SLS roadsder any f day!
or M6
then rather R8
Porsche is a "driverscar"
so if ya wanna go beter in a roofless driverscar you would have to go
BAC Mono, Cat superlight, Ariël atom, Lotus
or best Donkervoort GTO .-)
Iris C Or just the 911 Cabriolet is you want to stick to a 911
caterham super 7.
and the best of the best the tromotana r!!!
Aston Martin a proper man's car. Why has Aston Martin filed for bankruptcy seven times? Pains me to say that as a British citizen, I will stick with Porsche.
People who buy Targas aren’t buying a Porsche for the ultimate Porsche performance experience. They buy the Targa because it’s one of the most elegant, beautiful and enjoyable open top cars on the road. 911’s are glorious, but among them ... the Targa stands out as a pure beauty.
Evo, you guys need to have Tiff on your team, continue to bolster your digital proposition with him as your front man and push through the loss to DRIVETRIBE.
Over here in Germany only mid-sixties dentist's wifes drive such cars!! and of course these guys who past their best years by 30 years and want to be cool again.... but it only looks ridiculous!!! They go for the automatic not because it is faster but because they are not capable to press the clutch any longer than 5 seconds!!
It's really gorgeous it's easily the best-looking Porsche ever made !!!
Tiff is the man! I would stick with a 911. As beautiful as Aston's are, I enjoy passion through engineering quite a bit.
AWESOME!....dissing Porsche @ the end of the video..."id buy the Aston Martin..."! Im sure Porsche will appreciate the review! I do appreciate the honesty!
I thought Tiff was cleverer than that, it weighs only 90kg more than the equivalent coupe, not much of a penalty when you consider all the extra strengthening that the body needs.
Fantastic review! Always love to hear what Tiff has to say.
Cool but over engineered targa roof mechanism. Would love to see an RWD version with carbon fiber panels and the fixed targa window and rollbar. I would use the money on an 981 Boxster GTS or S or a base Boxster and drop the 3.8l 991 engine in (BGB conversion or Ruf3800). Mid-engine Porsche handling, lower weight and 911 power output ;)
its the 911 hardtop convertible. porsche makes a car for everyone nook and cranny. just bring your wallet
TIFF Needell was the very first motoring journalist that exuded the passion for cars as I do at a young age. He has and still is number 1 in my book. He just LOVES DRIVING and that's what we all enjoy at the end of the day. Thanks EVO for bringing him into what was already my favorite motoring magazine/youtube team in EVO. Well Done
Dude jaguar is for British fanboys and porsche is way more superior than jaguar and jaguar is not selling and I wonder why
The Porsche 991 Old-Guy-On-Vacation version. And I'm not referring to Tiff.
Tiff we miss You ! :(
I would LOVE TO SEE the raw onboard shot from behind the driver. About 15 mins of ONLY raw onboard shots would really be awesome for the more enthusiast/nerdy group of watchers
Jeremy Clarkson is better, especially when talking about porsche lol
Manual gearbox?! I thought Porsche got rid of them! Faith in Porsche restored
Tiff is a tall dude and he looks rather small in the new 911; that should show just how large the current car is.
Why couldn't they make the targa top a simple pop-on/pop-off panel instead of this heavy folding roof mechanism?
Love seeing this guy again
Great video, Tiff! Excellent highlights and thoughtful criticisms. Keep up the good work.
My dad has one and it is the smoothest driving car I have ever been in
Nicely done Tiff- thank you ! I personally get it why a person would want a Targa. I think it great that Porsche has chosen to still offer such a model. I love the sound of that special exhaust !
McLaren P1 vs Toyota Prius vs SLS Electric Drive vs a Bicycle
Bicycle will outrun the Prius :D
Ditch the the 4wd (or at least relegate it to an option), roof motors. Keep the wrap around rear screen, silver/black rollover hoop. Add a carbon fibre roof panel and bingo-bango you get the 911 Targa Porsche should have made.
Love the targa. It is just more special than the cabrio.
If you can ignore the booming wind/ air pressure always there. No one drives a Targa with the top off. Never did never will.
James Tennier You don't know me!
There are "windier" convertibles than that!
I just love the "roadster aspect" I guess. Owned 2 914s decades ago and (just) remember the booming. TransAM with T top the same. Best had to be a TR-2. putting your cigs out on the freeway...
This car wasn't built for the track it's a cruiser a luxury convertible
I will spend it on a Porsche 911 Carrera S Coupe ! it is a lovely car
Idk if its just me.... but I wouldnt get a targa when you can just get a turbo 911.....
You just can't beat a review done by Tiff! More please!
So why this over the Carrera S Convertible?
Because it's so pretty...
Always loved the Targas... they have a little extra, special charm to it.
The Aston is a bit last week, so the Jag obviously is a better choice.
I'd do jag. The car is so stunning, and the sound? Heaven bros
The Targa 4S is my new fav 911...
Although i like the look of the Targa, id prefer a full blown convertible and i think having to have all wheel drive will put some customers off
The saving grace about the 991 over the Jag and Aston Martins, this has an extra 2 seats in the back
I agree a 911 Targa should be available in 2wd form.