Top 5 Races That Desperately Need A Rework - Total War Warhammer 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- The reworks in Thrones of Decay were awesome but sadly it makes me look back at races and factions who have been badly ignored over the years. Let's discuss the races that need a rework the most!
Top 5 Races That Desperately Need A Rework - Total War Warhammer 3
#totalwar #warhammer3 #thronesofdecay
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Hotwheels Daniel the Demon Prince sitting in the corner with boring campaign mechanics despite being the sole lord of a race
I actually appreciated my first playthrough with him, that being said, it was the one and only 🤣
Indeed, I keep forgetting about him. His starting location, just like Ku'Ggath, should be change
Definitely should have had Belakor in his race
They should honestly just slap the other daemon races into him and individualize their confederation/campaign mechanics like the WoC.
As things are the WoC are basically everything the daemons are but better.
@@LordKalte i like Ku gath start location a lot:p
The Lizardmen are not in the same spot as the Skaven, despite the same amount of DLC, because they always pulled the short straw for their DLC's, with the second part being more fleshed out.
A rework could remedy that. Throw in Tetto'eko for good measure. And give Tiktaq'to a slight leg up, without having to buy 2 additional DLCs for Ripperdactyls and Coatls (hint: boost mounted skink chiefs factionwide).
Bretonnia could use Bertrand as an FLC LL, alongside some rework.
I know many people want Bohemond, but I think Bertrand could offer an entirely new playstyle for Bretonnia, doing away with peasant economy and chivalry and focusing on "unknightly" tactics like ambushing, sacking, ransoming captives etc., as well as boosting archers (take notes from Empire's archers and huntsmen).
The bretonnian crusade could be something like the waaagh for the greenskins. You select a target faction and based of it's strength you get global rewards, maybe some unique items along with it.
And it could be limited to non-order factions as targets.
Which is literally the Crusade mechanic from Medieval 1. It comes full circle.
Yea!
That, but instead of a second army just gaining units you add a "raise dead" unit pool based on your subfaction and/or chivalric vows.
The waagh mechanic is completely useless though, you can only use it once and then never touch it again or you lose your buffs. Only the lizardmen and dwarfs have rewards worth having so once you get the biggest waagh with either of those factions its mechanic over.
@@Lones555 Ummm, the primary benefit of a waagh is not the buff you get at the end. It's the access to recruitable waagh units and the extra forces you get during the waagh itself. These are far, far, faaaar more impactful than any waagh buff. I don't even pay attention to the rank of the target. You should be in a state of waagh every single moment that you can be because it almost literally doubles your military power.
The target is just an excuse. Any orc will tell you the purpose of a waggh is the waggh itself.
Lizards need a rework so fucking desperately. I think people often confuse the difference between "rework" and "more content". Vampires have honestly fairly decent mechanics on the campaign side, they just haven't gotten any new paid units since 2016. Lizardmen on the other hand have a fantastic roster but their campaign mechanics are dismal. The geomantic web has always been a nothingburger, the UI interface for recruiting slaan feels ancient, blessed units are completely random, it just feels bad. Tehenhauin is probably one of the best feeling lizardmen factions at the moment because he actually has some ways to interact with the races unique stuff after they updated him for mortal empires. They're very similar to how the wood elves were before their rework - great units that feel fun to play with in battles but their campaign mechanics are just... not good.
Ogres are also desperately in need of a rework, their units are also a blast, but their campaign mechanics are very rough, and truth be told both their legendary lords feel seriously underwhealming in my eyes.
Honestly I think kislev also needs a rework. They're functional but the feel very weird and disjointed as a faction at the moment. You supposedly have this idea of the ice court, the orthodoxy, and the old primal magics of the land that exist in an uneasy alliance but that just isn't how it feels in game.
Still, I'd say nothing is remotely close to being in the position that say beastmen or warriors of chaos were in for most of Warhammer 1 and 2, every faction feels at least functional and playable, which is a big step up in quality.
i agree vampires as a race have solid mechanics with the blood lines and raise dead that make them feel interesting and quite fun with their kill raise kill more flow. they really just need some dlc flavor and lord updates and maybe some touch up on the race mechanics. VS other factions that just dont really work like the ogres and my personal pick vampire coast, vamp coast has the core identity there they just need it updated (like being able to attack directly from the sea maybe raiding from the ocean, better pirate coves, etc) so im personally holding out for that
I never understood why everyone is hating on Tehenhauin, his stuff is actually unique.
They’re fine. There are so many races in a worse state. They don’t need anything.
I wish they would give my lizards some love, they are fun in battle but their campaigns are so tedious and their mechanics are garbage, along with the tech tree whose only rival in terms of awful was old dwarf tree. They feel unfinished.
Geomantic web has so much potential too
For me number 1 will always be Aranessa Saltspite. She's in so bad spot she even got added to the wrong faction.
He said factions, not individual characters
Shes my favorite lord and i finished the campaign with her 6 times
Aranessa desperately needs to be moved to DoW when they're released.
@@ynwa9885 He said Races, not Factions.
@@DarthEnderX no please shes my favorite lord just the way she is
I've seen it suggested that Norsca could be rebranded as a more generic "Northern Tribes" or "Northmen", so it can be expanded to include other Chaos worshipping tribes outside Norsca like the Kurgan, Hung and Tong, and they could take the opportunity to rework the preexisting Norsca factions.
It would be interesting if they had alternate looks for Norsca factions in Lustria and Cathay.
Seen it suggested on this channel, for instance?
@@kaelthas9970like that warhammer 2 mod the tribes from the new world
I hope that they get a Champions of Chaos style DLC for the main separate tribes and include a lord for each of them
would be cool to have a non chaos aligned norscan tribe
I desperately hope CA keeps doing reworks and content for races that never got to where they should have been at the end of warhammer 2
I usually have a lot of disagreements with your opinions and theories but making Wulfrik a semihorde is legit one of the best ideas ive ever heard. Also i actually agree with the rest of the video but the Wulfrik part Really needs to happen. That would be amazing!
there's a reason that SFO has literally made this a thing. the idea isn't original.
Idk. Wulfrik having a teleport like Oxy makes more sense imo because Seafang travens through the realms of chaos to reach far away lands quickly. He sailes through time and space, not so much the sea like other Norscans.
Just a Tomb King enjoyer here being sad they are not mentioned. They got some campaign balancing in WH3 like most factions got, but I feel like they would really benefit from a DLC.
Probably not before Nagash.
@@resileaf9501 I was going to say the same thing.
The video is about factions that need reworks, not factions that could use some dlc. The tomb kings are fine, they don't need a rework. Khalida could use a once-over, though, so many things about her are so messy.
Other than Arkhan the Black they all need to have their faction benefits looked into. Khalida in particular has the worst faction effects of any lord in the game, what use is diplomatic relations on any difficulty above Easy. Khatep is screwed over by not having any green territory by him. I love Settra but his faction mechanics are also woeful.
Imagine this:
Mazdamundi collecting and reading plaques
Kroq gar training cold ones and carnosaurs and all their respective cavalry variants just like some other factions can buff up their units. And a fun thing could be to make carnosaurs or scar veterans and the lord variant for him to train and grow up a bit like the ice court mechanic for kislev
Tiktaq give him some cool mobility/teleport or something, make him more air force oriënted. Then we have all unique lizard factiobs
I heartily second making the Green Knight a legendary hero. I defeated Repanse yesterday and killed him. I honestly had no idea he could be killed. Why can he be killed lmao
Honestly, the High Elves could do with some work too. Their tech tree in particular is incredibly stilted.
I'd honestly love non-Chaos Norsca. As in, you're still a raider, Viking, whatnot, but you are not tied to Chaos.
I wanna play me some Vikings dammit.
I feel the same way, weirdly enough, with the Beastmen. I just want them to tear down the world, screw the gods.
In Warhammer, the North Pole is literally hell. They can't survive up there without worshiping chaos.
I would love to see mallobaude come at some point and him and loun could have a similar elector count system but it’s fighting for the throne of bretonnia, maybe it could have a prestige currency that you build and can win over other dukes loyalty for you to be the true king of bretonnia as well as an overall rework for bretonnia. I’d also love a mixed roster for him having exiled knights, gunpowder, mercenaries and all sorts of different people like wizards and such. Would be such a cool lord to have
Just want to say thanks for being one of the only content creators that constructively (that word is important) drives forward the conversation of what we want to see for this game.
I feel alot of the other CCs are more reaction based and dont really create videos that we the fans of the game can center around to show CA what we want from the game.
So thanks for including us in the discussion of where this game should go
In regards to Norsca, their Allegiance to the Gods mechanic needs the biggest rework. In TWW1, it synergized with their inability to occupy inland as you'd just raze the settlement and by relation, build allegiance to the gods and while that did carry some issues with enemies resettling an area, the map was smaller and getting rid of a set of enemies means ones work could no longer be undone. With the map expansion of TWW2, their limited expansion area became far more detrimental as there was a lot more space for enemies to resettle and causing the release of mods giving them the ability to occupy everywhere. Then, when they gained the ability to occupy anywhere in TWW3, their Allegiance and the change to their occupation now work against each other since Razing and then settling means having to build up a settlement from scratch while occupying means not getting any allegiance.
Probably too late but Wood Elves should have their own "corruption" for spreading woods, make the map more forest and cause attrition damage to non wood elves. And make it visually interesting to have trees reclaiming deserts and wastelands.
I would love this so much and it would give more of an incentive to spread out around the main forests
@@RawrFatcat There is a mod that does it.
As a die-hard VC player with 2k+ hours since WH1, here's a few tweaks I'd love to see:
Universal Changes:
*Vampiric Channeling:* Vampire Counts directly siphon winds of magic recharge rate from enemies, as a percentage of how much they outnumber their living opponents. The more you outnumber your enemy, the more noticeably you siphon their winds of magic.
*Midnight Court:* Something like the high elf influence mechanic, but with vampirism. Allow player to use blood kisses as a powerful currency that can extort significant promises from other (especially human) factions, perhaps with the catch of requiring a certain level of political, vampiric corruption first, and with the knowledge that after granting a blood-kiss, one of their faction's Lord's would become a Vampire. "Hey Nuln, I will turn one of your nobles/heroes into a vampire if you declare war on Stirland."
Faction-Specific Changes:
*Vlad Von Carstein (Isabella as Legendary Hero):* Gains access to elector count systems, state troops/militia, and some potential intrigue/corruption/influence mechanic, where he can garner electoral support through vampire-specific shenanigans. Specifically, I think it would be cool if you could "host balls" and invest things like dark magic and political favors in exchange for more support, limited-time recruitment of mainstream empire units, etc.
*Isabella (Vlad as LE):* Gains a clan-moulder style system to customize, upgrade, and homebrew vampiric beasties. Maybe she's feeling savage and blends Varghulfs with Dire Wolves for a super-pack of Dire-Ghulfs? Maybe she crosses Fell Bats with Terrorgheists to get larger bats with anti-large? But lean into her beastial savagery and really highlight the lore around her having an innate connection with dark creatures. Maybe she needs to collect specimens of nasty creatures from all over the world in order to get new traits, like Mr. Grom's ingredient scavenger hunt?
One idea I have for Norsca is to expand their identity into a "Tribes/Hordes of Chaos" faction that also encompasses the Hung and the Kurgans. Have them use a similar tech tree early one, with marauders (preferable with unique skins for each subfaction) and then at higher tiers they diverge into more unique playstyles. Norscans having elite infantry with beserkers and champions, Hung with elite horse archers and so forth. And to use the full rooster you defeat the legendary characters of the other subfactions
Agree Wulfric needs hoard mechanic with addition of target elimination. Lizards geomantic web should be in a separate building slot like we just got with gardens of morr, and could build up different bonuses that way, and only apply to temple cities.
One change for Norsca I'd like, if the raise settlement mechanic had more immediate bonuses, like still getting some of the money sacking would give +plus a God specific bonus to the Army that did it.
Ogres: Mobile camps, contracts always have three rewards (money, item [either two green ones or one blue], and one temporary global bonus]) as well as making your armies at war with a contract target (after the contract is done or expires, then you go back to being neutral with that faction without any ill repercussions), expanded research tree...and as said in the video, proper capitals (because how the hell do you build a Tier IV counter-Skaven building if your settlements can only go up to Tier III?).
Brets: Rework to their Chivalry mechanic to make it more impactful and make you want to play more chivalrously, a Crusade mechanic that works like in the old Medieval games (especially the 1st Medieval: Total War, where you simply keep adding units over and over...until any fight against the Crusade is literally one big survival battle for everyone else as you face a 200 regiment worth doomstack), turn Aldberick into Vampire Coast: Bretonnian Edition (including having him set up not!Coves, but these would produce a percentage of money based on the income of the port settlement and instead buff up that region further for alliance reasons), Repanse should have her Water mechanic buffed and renamed as Sanctuary that activates only in inhospitable places (like deserts where she starts, frozen and Chaos Wastes) + make her buffs include Chaos factions for thematic reasons, Green Knight is reworked into a proper LH (as well as gives out massive buffs to all units in a lord's army along being a lethal duelist + a teleportation mechanic where you can summon him to an army or garrison during defensive battles even if he's on the other side of the Warhammer world).
Lizzies: Apart of a reworked tech-tree, massive changes to the geomantic web. Allow them to go full crazy here with the web as they manipulate it to case stuff from jungle plagues, spawning dinosaurs into armies (ala how Vilitch loves to "gift" Tzeentch Spawns to people), outright deleting a non-LL army or a whole city and so much more as long as you have at least one Slaan (Mazdamundi and Kroak would both count and both would have much more options to Hexoatl and the Gor-Rok led Itza). Nakai on the other hand isn't changed that much, but his Defenders of The Great Plan vassal however is turned into a regular faction and can build all unique buildings available to Lizardmen (as well allowing Nakai to share the bonuses with him).
Vampire Counts: 1st thing. Replace the generic Vampire Lord and Strigoi Ghoul King with the Bloodline von Carstein and Strigoi Ghoul King lords and add in the other three types. All of them are recruitable but in the Kislev Ice Court style where you pay for it in Blood Kisses (thus making people to use Necromancers and Necromancer Lords more often). The Bloodlines mechanic is expanded into various segments per tier that end up with passive bonuses or a weaker passive bonus + map ability/forging of an item or gaining an ancillary/RoR unlock/etc. The Bloodlines get the Monogod + Daemons of Chaos Undivided treatment as each plays differently (or at least with overwhelming emphasis on a specific Bloodline) and only Mannfred gains everything but without most of the special stuff or unique elements the other Bloodlines have. Also all VC factions get the ability to turn Necromancer Lords into Litches.
Norsca: Just give them Daniel's dedication mechanic with a ton of various things to each Chaos God. Also add the option to go Undivided or screw Chaos in general...but not without a price. Also give Norscans walls.
Bonus race: The Vampire Coast could need a roster expansion and their mechanics further polished and expanded. Especially with making Infamy far less useless.
Vampire coast needs a little something too. Just for some more flavor
Mine is:
1. Norsca
2. Vampire counts (unique mechanics for legendary lords)
3. Lizardmen (unique mechanics for the old legendary lords)
4. High elves + Dark elves (unique mechanics for the old legendary lords)
5. Daemons of chaos (Needs more mechanics + remove limb-sets and add more extreme options)
Brettonia and Ogre kingdoms after that
See even the Dark Elves have mechanics. This is why the High Elves are near the top for me. Yes you have things like Imrick and Eltharion having sort-of mechanics, but that doesn't really fix it. I'd cry if they aren't included in the next DLC vs Slanny and have actual mechanics thrown in.
Geomantic web needs a rework... I'm thinking they could add a deck of objectives, representing the Great Plan. These could range from eradicating a LL or race, to capturing a location or region. Then at the start of each campaign, draw 6 randomly and give each a bonus to the geomantic web. For example: geomantic web grants +1 happiness per level in all settlements connected to this location, or Chaos wasteland habitability merely unpleasant.
There is a 7th which is guaranteed to be "eradicate the skaven" and grants something special. all 7 are required for the Domination, and 5 are required for the long, or something like that.
When will they show some love to the Vampire Coast? My favorite faction thematically but it's so badly in need of a rework it's hard to justify playing them
Yeah. They were introduced as gunpowder/monster faction, but now there is simply no reason to play them. Every other race using gunpowder got bags of new fun stuff.
I think they have the same problem as Tomb Kings: they are in the middle of the pack. They are too good to land on a lists such as this, but with each new race being reworked they are slowly being left behind in that "still works" limbo.
Honestly think people forget they even exist until someone mentions them.
I think one of the biggest problems with them especially now with the chorfs and the dwarf/empire gun update they are out prefomed on every level of their own specializations.
Deckhands? in a vacuum just slightly better zombies, but can get alot less boosted and upgraded. with the polearm variant being a worse skeleton spearman.
Syreens? ok against physical damage but tends to melt against almost anything by mid game.
Depth guards? one of if not the worst "elite" infantry in the game, good against any infantry that's a tier or two lower then them or can't fight back in melee. polearm variant is pretty good for guarding artillary from flankers tho.
Gunnery mob hybrid melee/gunpowder? outperformed by every single other unit in the category.
Handgunners? might do better vs very large monsters then the standard empire handgunners by virtue larger unit size=more bullets per volley, but they have low accuracy against anything smaller then the broad side of a barn.
Handcannons/shotguns? might out gun the cathay iron hail gunners if they shot first, again the numbers advantage but all other shotgun units can just out tank them and grind them down.
Bomb throwers? might outperform miner blasting charges if they get all the bombs out, and thats a big if. nevermind every other bomb throwing unit outranges and outclasses them in every way.
Deck gunners? outranged by every other sniper in the game, and has the slowest relaod of them all.
Mortars? about on par with the empire ones but slightly worse damage and reload and cannot be boosted as much.
Carronades? refer back to the mortar points.
Queen Bess? unique unit that preforms only slightly better then a standard dreadquake mortar. would be good but you only get the one.
deck droppers? non of them have the numbers or the ammo to be useful.
animated hulks? just worse ogre bulls.
Mournguls? actually pretty decent for taking out back lines and then be the hammer for some hammer and anvil so like a very slow but stealth cav.
Prometheans? ok anchor to break charges if you don't mind replacing them constantly. gun variant is about the same just with a gun and can't be boosted as much. both outpreformed by most monstrous infantry units.
Bloated corpses? a huge gamble every time but if you get them to work they can be the difference between victory and defeat. if not they may be an out right detriment. emergency recruit only.
Leviathans? big, distracting, expensive, target, slightly more useful then a giant.
Terrorgheists? just slightly worse dragons.
Necrofex colossus? best unit in the roster but average or below at almost everything it does, below average range for artillery, average health for a single unit monster, average missile damage, below average melee, average armor et cetera. ultimate hybrid unit, can do it all but not the best at anything.
So in conclusion the vampire coast now has some of the worst gunpowder infantry in all categories, squishy line holder infantry, mediocre or below monstrous infantry, below average gunpowder artillery, horrible settlements but decent hoard buildings and ok monsters.
only thing they really have left to stand out are the lore of the deep which was nerfed into oblivion and the necrofex colossus.
As Lizardmen main, I would say that Geomantic Web icon is REALLY REALLY annoying, to the point I want it to be remove since it serve no function at all. Consider you will build all the pylon in every main settlement anyway, so you already get the idea of the strength of the web.
Why is it a problem?? Well I usually use a lot of mod during my play through and many of them add new mechanic to Lizardmen. For example "gaining faction mechanic via confederate" , "Item Forge" and the latest one "Jurassic". But since their interface icon start to overlap and there is Geo Web icon that doesn't do anything but taking a slot of other useful mechanic.
Same deal with Skaven corruption. I mean you literally can see how much corruption is there in the region so why do you want more button to show how much corruption you have?
Give Leonceur a Royal Court/Round Table in the form of Offices, with the unique feature of the bonuses becoming more powerful,, with more faction-wide buffs, the more oaths the holder has completed.
One i feel gets over looked for a rework would be the vampire coast.
For ogres movong camp could be done by say, a turn to pack up camp then move then a turn to set up.
The title loaded before the thumbnail did, u had me real worried for a bit.
I think with most its fleshing out mechanics thats needing done. Most lords should feel drastically different to play from the same race but still have a (updated to be interesting and new) race mechanics.
Mazdamundi should be THE spellcaster. He shoukd be terrifying with his spells, give him cataclysm spells, more variety of them.
Fix the geomantic web so its more impactful. Give incentive to go take that major settlement over there to strengthen the web, be able to distribute web strength (like the winds mechanic for tzeentch). Have events pop up(like the wood elf trees) where daemons are trying to disrupt the web. Once there is enough strength in the web you can teleport armies like in lore.
Idea for the Ogre contracts - just make it like the caravan mechanic. Give 3 options for who you're getting hired by, some stops with events along the way (to get more money, hurt/improve relations with local factions, get more troops, etc) and end it with a big battle where if you win you get money and extra relations with the faction you're supporting.
This would make it nice and simple and also make it so you don't have to trespass across half the map with one of your main armies for basically no reward. Maybe make it so a 10 stack of the AI you're helping shows up in the last battle just to make it a little more interesting.
For the mercenaries system, maybe it would be cool to add a 5 unit cap per army and just be able to recruit whatever units the local camp can recruit?
I'd love to see, if they went withthe whole 'tribes of the north' thing for norsca, if they would include Albion as a non-chaos aligned tribe. Similar to how Drycha is a wood elf who is the enemy of all wood elves. You wouldn't even need to move Bel'akor, just give him the option to subjugate the Albion tribe like any other Norscan.
Agree that lizardmen are one of the coolest races, especially for single-entity units. Their tech tree is absolutely horrible to play around, though. I often find that if I want to play with lizardmen units, I'm better off playing Nakai or Rakarth so I can ignore their typical failings. Rakarth gets the cool single-entity monsters with raiding/plundering/hunts, and Nakai gets an improved tech tree and can force the spawning units by spending special currency.
Essentially the best way to play lizardmen is to ignore the lizardmen faction.
How about this for lizard men. They have a mechanic called weapons of the great plan and they include some ceazy stuff like for example causing a massive earthquake in the mountain range of your choice to cause heavy destruction to settlements there
Norsca not just need a Rework, they also need a lot more Content (i dont care for lore, invent one as with the Vampire coast)
Crusade mechanic sounds nice, i also want Bretons to get more units (shepards)
most important Vampire update: Visual upgrade for Their magic
yea they need a dedicated werewolf lord with more werewolf units. He could transform like the dragons do at the press of a button and go beserk and shit. i know there is a mod of this but its a lack luster mod
@@willclark4449 Beorg the Bearstruck and the Bearmen of Urslo should be doable, and it might finally give an excuse to change transformation of Kadon
My dream is Daniel getting a rework making him an insane one man army with massive faction buffs to compensate for the no tech tree.
Norsca is easily my favorite faction….you can literally pickup and change the landscape (or the tide of war) anywhere you go…the hunts are so cool (when they work) but some of the pre requisites are just dumb (raid this settlement surrounded by a faction youre at war with (o and you cant cancel that hunt either)…i just feel like they could be amazing if they just expand the roster and make hunts more flexible
You forgot High elves, they also have too much of the same issue as lizard men where there are too many buildings linked or required for recruiting units. In addition to that tier 3 unit such as phoenix guard requires a Tier V building -_-
Vampire coast needs even more love than vampire counts, also good as the empire update is, you still cannot play the other elector counts without mixu's mods and even with them the lords can''t match Karl and other LL.
Vampire counts got the first DLC that was basically a proof of concept that has nothing on any of the new ones, and zero since. They are easily the most underserved faction in the game imo.
Unfortunately at base they're just so powerful that they've slipped through the cracks. The bloodlines mechanic was excellent FLC though.
And yeah it doesnt make a lot of sense that Vlad doesnt have his loyal human legions(unless i'm mistaken about the lore and/or its been changed in newer versions, isnt he incredibly popular with his citizens for keeping crime non existent and having a government lacking in corruption more or less, ironic as that is?) Or that Mannfred doesnt have a "Ruin everything for everyone, especially myself" mechanic. Ghorst has always been pretty cool I wish he got a mechanic to make his corpse carts more viable, like a tech that lets them be pulled by undead donkeys so they're still pretty slow but not agonizingly so. 35 speed is slow enough, my dude.
Kemmler is already perfect because he has Big Daddy K. And yes, he makes Kemmler call him that too.
My list goes like this:
5: High Elves. Id like an Empire-esque mechanic to focus and manipulate Influence around, instead of just gaining it and spending it like its been. I'd also like more thematic flavor for lords like Tyrion, Alarielle, etc, in the flavor of what they did for Eltharion and Imrik.
4. Lizardmen. Essentially the same gripes as HEs, I'd like an update focused around the geomantic web and more thematic flavor for some of the characters like Gor-Rok and Mazdamundi.
For Nakai... I think he and his lords just need to become semi-hordes. Get rid of the vassal system, it doesn't really fit with the game in the same sense of the WOC with Norscan factions. He could still have depreciated settlements that use the vassal buildings, but use those to give buffs/garrisons in the region instead of a useless vassal faction.
3. Ogre Kingdoms. The Camps either need to be able to move between regions, or should be replaced by each lord gaining a semi-horde mechanic. I actually don't think we need much of a buff to settlements beyond maybe capitals getting 6-8 slots, since the focuses would be on the lords than the settlements, but they'd be there more for income purposes than recruitment purposes.
The roster desperately needs expanding, and you could easily do variants based on the maneaters to give you various faction-themed Ogre units. And, in reverse, each faction could be able to recruit their own Ogre maneater units.
2. Vampire Coast. They need several updates, to better flesh out the faction as a whole as well as modernize the mechanics more.
It feels like each lord plays very differently to one another, so honestly the roster should reflect that; it needs to be huge and varied. Aranessa balances between undead Sea Monsters and living auxiliary units, Harkon is the Vanilla VC experience, Noctilus is The Necrofex Doom Stacker, and Cylostra is focused on spectral units. I think we need to widen the variety of the roster to allow each lord to more comfortably play in their lane, as it would allow them to each have a truly unique experience. It would also allow further lords a way in more comfortably.
Pirate coves need to have a Changeling makeover. Just because you sacked or destroyed a settlement, doesn't mean the hidden cove in the area got scourged. That is just bad mechanic design, and even though it got updated for under-cities and cults, coves didn't get that update. They should.
A mechanic to recruit other Pirate lords via infamy would be nice, maybe akin to the grudge confederation system (but not the entire grudge system, mind!)
Lastly, I think each Vamp Coast lord, generic and Legendary, need to 1. be able to attack from water, and 2. have the semi-horde mechanics. It would allow them to stay in their element (water) and still be able to do their thing without the hassle of landing, using global recruitment, and then running. They'd become a proper sea raiding faction, as they should be.
1. Norsca (surprise.). Where to start... I'm not one of those who thinks that Norsca needs to be added to the Tribes of the North, actually. I think the Tribes of the North (Or Mortals of Chaos, if you will) would be better suited for the Hung, Kurgan, Tong, etc, or the true nomadic tribes that come from up there, since they all fight more with mounted combat than Norsca. Not to say that they don't have infantry at all, just i don't imagine they specialize near as much with infantry as Norsca does. Norsca has it's own identity, for all the fact that it's people mix into the wider Chaos factions, but that is more covered by Warriors of Chaos imo.
I believe that the Norscans should have a couple of factions that focus on good relations with Order factions, or at least are ambivalous to them; they have been mentioned in lore trading with Nordland and Marienburg, as well as allying with the Norse Dwarfs, so it does not make sense that all Norscan factions are fully Chaos oriented.
I think they need to greatly expand their roster as well; Berserkers with Great Weapons, Huscarls, Shieldmaidens, Marauder Archers/Hunters (they do use bows in lore!), more Fimir variants (if we never get them by themselves), more Troll variants. There's a lot of room to grow from what we have now if you look back into the lore.
Legendary lords... Wulfrik needs to start in Skeggi. It's stupid that the guy who is supposed to wander the world challenging champions is right there ruling from home. Give him a semi-horde mechanic (only him though) and give him a quest system a la Oxyotl to teleport over and defeat certain lords or characters that the gods demand of him. Maybe that's how he gains favor, defeating the gods' targets instead of razing cities.
As far as the lords that still need to be introduced... Sayl the Faithless, Surtha Ek, so many choices. Maybe they can take inspiration from that popular norsca mod? Regardless, I'd like at least a faction that can play nice with the order factions, since the southern tribes do play nice... Sometimes.
I think all the undead faction (counts, coast, and tomb kings) need more updates. I’d love to see a rework of Norsca and honestly expect it a lot considering the focus on Chaos in this game. I hope as the game continues to update we see a toy box with a lot of individual mechanics but my dream that I’m not holding my breath for is seeing Nagash
his name is 'the wanderer' :P He should have a 'wandering' stance!
My top 5: V counts, bretonnia, norsca, lizardmen, high elves (their only mechanic is better characters and changing relationships which you only do when you are already strong).
Do you think that a "Tribes of the North" DLC is a possibility on the corrent stat of CA?
Thing i want most ist a Hybrid Bretonnia VC faction with the red duke! and Border Princes )
Love the video 100% agree with the top 5. But I have a different take on the direction for norsca. I dont like infusing them with choas units because they already have so many factions. For Norsca to be unique it needs a Skeggi DLC because vikings riding dinosaurs. And throw in a rework of their worship mechanic.
Glad Vampire Counts are mentioned here. Though I feel like giving them a WoC treatment of making each blood line their own legendary lord might be too much of an ask if you take into consideration all the other factions that still need a revisit. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it, but that might be a bridge too far. I dunno...
Honorable mention Vamp Coast? they really need their campaign moved into IE and given more to do, and the roster really needs some love. They were built for the vortex map, now that it is gone, they need adjustments.
I really hope that CA as trays to reuse mechanics more often.
There are so many good mechanics that would elevate certain faction or LL.
Overall I think the list should include Deamons of Chaos because Daniel needs a rework alongside Belacor getting moved here and maybe a new undivded lord on top of that.
They could even reduce the range of Ogre Camps if we were allowed to pack and move them, taking a couple of turn to pack and unpack to ensure it isn't OP
I hope you are right and Ogres are next. I also hope CA looks at your videos as you claim and listens. Ogres needs some fun mechanics, it's such a cool race, but the implementation is so simple and lacks any deep mechanics.
Bretonnia needs a Lord and Hero option. Grail characters also need to be updated to TW3 standards so that they don't struggle against random lords from other factions. The crusade mechanic could use the Waaaagh system, the rewards being various blessings of the Lady, or maybe your characters would need to partake in that crusade to reach Grail level, so you would actually have some significant rewards for sailing half the map to fight a random faction.
Totally agree great ideas here I would just like all the tech trees to be the same like empire or dwarfs so you specify where you want to research economy, military, magic example of old bad tree Cathay lacks versatility
Please a rework for tomb kings, especially for High Queen Khalida and probably exiles of Nehek. Being surrounded by key playable factions, that are pretty strong, and while starting with decent but not great units, that you probably won’t survive long enough to get more powerful units you’d need to expand, let alone fight the more powerful factions (looking at you Ironbrow).
I think Chaos Ogres would be a good addition to Throggs roster.
Norsca needs the Eye of the Gods mechanic from the Warriors of Chaos. They should also get less bad diplomatic relations with the Empire, as there is documented trade between the Empire and Norsca in the lore...though that may only be Marienburg, not sure. Still, it would be nice if you could have more room for variety when it comes to the Norscans. You could for instance trade with the Empire and clean up the north before crossing the sea southwards and burning it all to ashes.
I'm also VERY happy that the Norscan peninsula had its climate changed, which I don't believe was even mentioned in the patch notes or really talked about. The Chaos Wastes have't expanded that far south lore-wise, so it's nice to see the territory be useful to more other factions as well now.
Bretonnia misses a lot of units, with which you could explore another more peasant-oriented playstyle. I mean a Crusade Mechanic would already be awesome, maybe similair to a Waghh, but besides that rework for the knightly Lords, a peasant rouge army could get explored.
LL either Bertrand the Brigand or the Hooded Blade.
Both are Robin Hood outlawstyle characters and could get some Raid/Ambush (think skaven attackambush) mechanics, which bretonnia usually doesn't really use. Both cannot really recruit Knight-units (maybe some Knights Errant/Foot Knights with a lategame talent, that turns them into rouge-knights), but they buff their peasant units. (yeoman, footsquires etc.). Maybe with an upgrade-mechanic for peasantunits similair to orc-scrap upgrades.
Faceless as a generic lord option for that.
Seargant-at-Arms as an antilarge Infantry-Hero, that buffs mostly Infantry.
Foot Knights - knight-unit on foot, shielded, heavy armor, give alberic boni for these guys, he needs them.
Herrimaults - think rouge elite longbowmen. high range, snipe, stalk, amorpiercing
Foot Squires (anti-large varriant)
Bretonnian Truffle Hound as a typical warhound-unit.
Some more fey-oriented units could also be cool. i imagine a grailknight/damsel duo in a pegasus-drawn flying charriot with enough mass to actually charge some stuff and some innate spells.
Red Duke
Egil Styrnbjorn
Calard De Garamount
Boom, DLC
that looks more like a FLC ngl
Hey GBG Can you make a list of who could do with the psudo horde
Norsca could really use a faction DLC for, i think Skeggi
With the warhammer 3 settlements. Skaven Vermintide needs to spawn within the city.
Grand Cathay still feels incredibly awkward to use in battle tbh. It’s just a worse and more complicated and clunky version combat with all the Yin Yang harmony nonsense
Ok I think Bretonnian. Need a lot of love. The crusade thing is a good idea. For the the rooster they need few new units like foot knight or juste crusader. But a have the idea then some unit can evolve like warrior of chaos do it. You start with peasant and after a lot of fight they can evolve into veteran unit (only peasant and squire). And add some roguish unit like robin wood style, be great or some faction (unit), who don't follow the chevalric code. They cause mess but war is something other than honor and good will. Certain act must be done in time of war.
Sorry for the spelling mistakes, my english is not the best 😹
All I really want is Mazamundi (and to a lesser extent, normal Slaan) given the courtesy of their magic being as strong as it should be. It does not feel like the world shattering it has to be, and that he is a decent melee char sitting on his lizard is hardly worth anything, other casters have access to dragons and the like.
My top 5 races that need expansion in no particular order : norsca, ogre kingdom, vampire coast, tomb king, brettonia.
Vampire coast have dreadfleet as materials for further expansion. Tomb kings need some upgrades to their campaign mechanics cuz they’re very slow to play. Those two also only have 4 LL and can’t confederate.
Or perhaps instead of these two individually, the undead factions as a whole still have a lot of potential of further upgrades.
Norsca will always be my favourite race. Even with all the shit I’ve always been hoping for an update but now it finally seems somewhat feasable!
Honestly, rather than a norsca rework i'd like to see kurgan, tong and hun. A "northmen" dlc so to speak.
Beastmen : Mostly fine, I'm just not a fan of the global pacing of campaigns with them
Daemons of chaos : Needs a real rework to turn Daniel into something a bit more unique that the demon prince the demons/woc can use. I understand the tech tree is the skills of Daniels and his stuff is his skills, but there is clear imbalance in what units get from what ability, the favor of the gods are useless past one point, and playing a dedicated god is really underwhelming because you need the diversity of his roster to actually be decent.
The Empire : Fine, just tweaks.
High elves : Tirion/Teclis needs mechanics, but the faction is overall fine. Only some tweaks.
Lizardmen : The random blessed spawnings with random missions, the absence of mechanics for FOUR lords, the fact the slann are nothing special in the end, the geomantic web being an ultra late game powerhouse too easily disrupted (which makes it overkill when it start to be relevant), and the lords being kind of weak (heroes are excellent, lords are meh), the tech tree in general, the buildings tree in general, all of that need a rework.
Ogre kingdoms : Camp mechanics don't work as you expect it in Immortal Empires, they need two new legendary lords, a buff to their two legendary lords, and new units to offer more playstyles.
Tomb kings : The start is too slow for a faction not that special or strong in the end. It's hard to pass the 40th first turns. Some tweaks could help them.
Vampire counts : Decent but could use a rework. Blood kiss is really not and interesting mechanic and has no use past a certain point, and the way they are (not) balanced around the raise dead mechanics make them very stupid to play, being able to raise units way overpowered far too soon. They are also very problematic played by the AI, I think, with their ability to recover dead troops and create new army out of nowhere, something should be done to tone down the whole raise dead idea without destroying it, both for player and AI.
Bretonnia : They are really Warhammer 1 old. Notifications for vows should be a thing, the tier 2 vows must be rework for something not impossible to do sometimes (just level up 10 times after taking the vow would make sense, idem for tier 3, level up 15 times, at least at some point you would get the tier 3. Also why chose one? You have the three options, you do one, great, next). Honor cap is far too easily reached. Green Knight is the worst legendary hero of the game, make him good OR make him a faction wide summon in battle (only in controled land maybe?). Alberic should have bonus for navy, a lord should focus on making decent army of peasants, and I think some options for footed knights would be cool. Also someone starting in Cathay or in Naggaroth could be nice. The start of Louen and the Fay should be rethink, because the best way to manager brettonia is not confed but kill the lord by yourself to take their provinces, at least if Be'lakor isn't too much harassing you, which kind of makes no sense. The tech tree is not that bad but maybe lack bonuses to boost your units. All in all it's not really good to play peasants and you really pushed to play full knights at some point.
Dark elves : No opinion, I don't play them.
Grand Cathay : No need for rework, future DLC will allow them to be even better. Zhao Ming just need more ennemies.
Khorne : The faction suck. The reason Khorne is considered fucking op is Skarbrand himself, nothing else. Economy and growth are atrocious, it's painfull to get a second army, the bonus armies are somewhat interesting but the lack of customisation means you either rush the tech or forget them and they directly take their full income within your money so it's not that interesting. The army is pretty good. Rituals for Khorne are not interesting. I'm not sure what they should do, it will heavily depends, I guess, on the future legendary/ies lord/s and what they bring on the table to balance around them, considering Skarbrand don't care and could be the powerhouse he is even playing with bretonnia and only peasants.
Keep in mind only Skarbrand can be on the offensive, another lord cannot recover on enemy territory, so it all ends in Skarbrand hands. His campaign balance between very hard if you are not good with him (like I am), or conquering the map in 20 turns in you are really good at the game, a middle ground should be found somewhere. Specifically, him and Taurox should not be able to gain movement everytime, just one or two times par turn, I guess.
Norsca : They are in the direst need of a rework. Norsca is warrior of chaos but boring and bad. I think the thematic should push them far from the chaos roster, expand the norscan options and don't make them available to the demonic factions, let them like 2 to rebel against chaos, why not give them some options to chose their alignement? I could be wrong but they are not all monsters of chaos in the lore, are they? They should have navy faction options, their tech should not be only related to conquering capitals. Their mechanic consisting at razing for a god, waiting it to be conquered again, then taking the settlement is kind of weird, I'm never sure what CA expect you to do exactly as Norsca mechanics wise. They need badly lords options, keep the chieftain to norscan armies, add a fimir lord or something for monstrous compositions. A norscan mage on a frost wyrm, maybe.
+ Wulrik should have mechanics around defying legendary lords for bonuses
+ Throgg should have a Drycha/Rakarth mechanic letting him recruit all trolls, and boost them, giving him the water troll hero from greenskin also.
Skaven : No opinion, I don't play them.
Tzeentch : Hard to say, he needs a true second lord, but it's kind of like Skarbrand.
Warriors of chaos : They are fine, but I would tone down Archaon and Be'lakor. Also, imo, Be'lakor should have been a daemon of chaos faction member, and they should not have access to mostly every demons of the game. Their thing should be warriors of chaos. They are too much three factions in one (WoC - Daemons - Norsca).
Chaos Dwarfs : They are fine. They just lack a lord somewhere else because they are all in the same place.
Dwarfs : Tweaks to do to the grudges but they are fine.
Greenskins : They are fine.
Kislev : The opposition between Katarina/Kostaltyn need adjustment, gods blessing also need some tweak, this works very strangely to gain favor. Boris needs unique campaign mechanics and I would argue he should start a bit more in the west of chaos wastes, far from Kost/Katarina. For the rest, they are fine.
Nurgle : Something to more easily transmist plague between settlement, maybe. I'm not sure, but the "plaguebearers" are way too slow on campaign map and tend to really just throw a plague to an enemy you kill after, so that nevers really create the pandemy you would dream of as Nurgle. Their roster is cool. Ku'gath need another starting position tho. Sends him to Lustria, for real.
Slaanesh : Their DLC is next if CA follow their intended map release.
Vampire Coast : Maybe it's me but taking port is... not really possible? I mean, focusing them. You take one, the enemy will try to reclaim it, everyone hates you, so he will be probably acompanied by a lot of people in the end. So in the end, you will have to play on land conquest and that's what everyone does. Their specificities doesn't seems to be as playable as they should.
Wood Elves : Some kind of a late game threat for them would be appreciated because once you have Athel Loren full, it's kind of over for everyone else. Also something to make alliances with dark elves easier could be cool. It's far too easy to get friend with High elves and far too hard with Dark elves, when the game is considering you should chose between the two (and when the three in Ulthuan could push you to wage war against HE).
Yes, yes, yes please give Vlad access to elector counts, give Vlad actuall reason beyond economy to take over the Empire and become Emperor (If we could turn Karl Franz into a vampire by the way would be amazing)
High elves need the pheonix court mod. It's too good.
Lizardmen definitely need a rework. Dark Elves are in a good place, High Elves on the other hand, need some help. Just about every other faction you can get more than one hero quickly whereas the High Elves you need to wait for tier 4 settlements to get a second hero of any type unless you play as Averlorn. Vampires are in a decent spot but I think they can use a bigger split like Tomb Kings, Von Carsteins, and other types of Vampires.
I think Imrik can get a second hero earlier too? But yeah, having some heroes available at tier 3 rather than 4 would make a huge difference. High Elves probably are in a situation where they need tweaks, the rest of their army book, and improvements to their more vanilla lords more than they need a full rework, although getting something in compensation for Yuan Bo stealing one of their mechanics would not be unwarranted.
Norsca was my first Chaos playthrough, and they DESPERATELY need a rework to make them as fun and distinct as all the other chaos factions.
Wulfrik needs to function similar to Oxy. Seafamg travels through the realms of chaos to reach its destination insanely quickly. Wulfrik should not be a horde.
UK train system is 25-40% bus but for double the price!
If I worked at CA I'd be strongly opposed to doing more faction updates next. I just don't see a way that they could top "Thrones of Decay". Whatever they do won't be as good because the lords suggested aren't as cool and the factions aren't as popular.
Instead I'd be talking to Games Workshop about introducing another faction. It doesn't matter too much which one (though the lore of some is in a much better place to work with than others.) They can go back to a triple faction rework afterwards and perhaps alternate thereafter so that successive DLCs are less easily comparable.
The green knight just needs to be like the spirit of Grungni. Having him permanently attached to an army doesn't feel right, as he just shows up in Bretonnia's darkest hours to turn the tide, much like the Spirit does for Gotrek and Felix. Have him be summonable for particularly chivalrous lords or something.
Also those vows need redone entirely.
It would just be nice if the ogre contests were more relevant. Everytime they pop up they want me to cross through 2 or 3 factions to reach the target.
I'm surprised nobody mentions the wood elves. I enjoy them but get so sick of the same map every battle! They just feel like the most forgotten faction
Dwarfs now have too many things - two technology trees, oathgold, many quests, grudges, and the grudge system, plus character Runes. I always liked Dawi because they were straightforward.
Bretonia needs The Holy WAAAAGH😂😂. Also Vampire Coast needs to be able to attack ports like black arks.
Ive been asking for a tribes of chaos rework for years now
An undeath dlc pack and rework (vampires, vamp coast, and tomb kings)
One annoying thing about the green knight is you can only summon him to your primary lord.
I was worried about the ogres being a pre order DLC as i though they'd get shafted as prenorder DLC always gets stuffed. I was roundly told to stop worrying, look as TWW2, lots of Free FLC for warriors and Norsca they'll be fine.
Well in game 3. Norsca still need work. It took a massive DLC to get Warriors of chaos up to snuff. And as we see Ogres still need work.
Glad it looks like they'll be fixed next, just got to wait for Norsca now.
What about a champion of chaos mechanica for bretonia? Knight units should be able to get promoted from errant to knight of realm to grail. Could also make it so that elite units could be promoted to hero/lord with unique trait (pegasus knight will be a paladin that buff pegasus knights).
Tbh i wanna throw Vampire Coast in their with the regular Vamps. Having to go out and fight armies for RoR is so outdated when no-other races have to do this. They just feel so left behind.
Yes more Lizardmen stuff.... I suppose the warm-bloods my need somthing too but lets focus on the plan.
There's only 3 races that need a rework imo and some that need minor tweaks. Norsca is a minor tweak faction, the roster is fine the heroes are amazing and highly underrated they need a new lord type and they need to change Wulfriks faction effects to be more useful. Throgg is fine and arguably overpowered since he buffs ice trolls faction wide you can just spam stacks of them at very low cost (only basic maurauders are cheaper under Throgg). Vampire Coast is in dire need of attention with 95% of their roster just being plain useless and Aranessa being the worst LL in the game. I'd also rework Tomb Kings and Bretonnia. Tweaks: give greenskins a savage orc lord/hero type, change the scrap mechanic so low tier goblins don't have the best scrap upgrades and your mid/late game units have absolute trash scrap upgrades. Lizardmen make the geomantic web useful. Dark elves rework the slave mechanic (again) since it makes a very powerful race extremely tedious to play. Ogre Kingdoms - change the "aversion" people have to them, they're meant to be master traders but only greenskins like them and they can't trade.
Im surprised daniel and his build-a-bear mechanics aren’t on the list i couldn’t play them without passing out from boredom on my first play through trying to get the normal campaign achievement let alone the very hard one i just can’t stand him
Cathay needs to improve their caravan system
I hope when nagash lord doc release come with tomb king rework.
I agree with all of these but I'll be honest, if the Deamon Prince is staying in the game he badly needs a tech tree and a rework to his parts system.
high elves and dark elves have been forgotten
3:35 Ordertide Waaah.
Vampire Coast, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, Norsca and Bretonnia need a rework
As a super fan of tww franchise, I believe the worst thing about the game right now is that they’re killing the identity because of the rush. Too many races and factions that are not unique enough although each one of has a fantastic lore behind it.
I won’t be happy until the empire and Bretonnia have dismounted knights