Lizardmen Really Need A Rework & Maybe A FINAL DLC - State of The Faction - Total war Warhammer 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- Oddly enough Lizardmen aren't in a good place despite having a large number of DLC's in game 2. Creative Assembly have said Lizardmen are going to be looked at eventually and to be honest the sooner it's done the faster the race is DONE. Let's discuss!
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Lizardmen Really Need A Rework & Maybe A FINAL DLC - State of The Faction - Total war Warhammer 3
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BOK BOK! All this talk about Lizardmen makes me want to paint up some of the ugly 90's Saurus Warriors tbh!
I hate saurus
By the way, are there missing mechanics in Vampire Coast, High Elves, Dark Elves
Lord Mazdamundi should get cataclysm spells
Slann priests in general should get cataclysm spells.
I would say the cathayan dragons should aswell
@@hoomanlel5149 Honestly, the moment Balthazar Gelt was given the ability to hand cataclysm spells out like tic tacs, i feel like any race considered greater spellcasters than humans should aswell, if only for lore reasons.
Only Loremasters, Slann and Great Spellcasters should have gotten access to Cataclysm spells.
I want Tetto'ekko as a LL he's the Spellcaster Loremaster of Heavens. Really want a Skink Spellcaster LL.
Error on your video Tiktaq'To is the Skink LL on a Terradon.
Slann lords definitely need Teleport Stance like Tzeentch has.
Would love to see two variants of Culchan cavalry for the Skinks and both Chakax and Tetto'eko as legendary heroes. I also like the pyramid idea...and some of the Skaven factions have the same problem as the Lizardmen regarding their inability to do research from turn 1. Throt is one of them.
Tetto'eko legendary lord:)
@@dirisheyy4829 Nah you need legendary Chok'on
I’ve always been a strong believer that Tehenhuin’s sacrifices felt like they should have been available to all Lizardmen. In the lore all Lizardmen do engage in sacrifices of their enemies, just the followers of Sotek go hard at it. Add in a “Plaques of the Great Plan/Old Ones” where each Lord starts with a specific plaque. Each plaque provides research rate and some unique benefits, similar to books of Nagash, but each plaque also unlocks a couple unique sacrifices. The rest of the plaques are scattered at the start of the campaign; except for the Plaque of Sotek which Tehenhuin always has. It gives Lizardmen a reason to go out and beat people up, adds sacrifices for all Lizardmen.
I agree. All Lizardmen should have sacrifices, but Tehenhauin should get the most out of them. The final Sotek spell also needs to be buffed or given more charges, either one of those.
More importantly, his Prophecy of Sotek chapter thingie needs to be fixed. It's been broken since Warhammer II and told me I had 18 provinces at turn 5 or so.
@@HiddenEvilStudios The province counter is a game wide bug not Sotek specific, any quest that tracks number of provinces has a chance to bug out and say you have way more than you actually have.
@@freedomfighter22222 Probably, but I've only really encountered it with Tehenhauin.
Make sense, maybe all lizardman get sacrifice but do not get a whole lot of options, Lizard Moses, gets a lot, and any trade deals he makes, he gets a constant income of captives, plus maybe make it where if you are in a military alliance with him, you get a minor benefit from the sacrifice, lets say Tehenuin gets a buff of plus 30 armor to all units, however since you are his ally, you get plus 10.
Of course if other lizardman have it, they get roughly a plus 10, its not that major, nor grand, but if you are a lizardman, if you both activate that armor buff, you get 40. Therefore, you get to determine how to perform diplomacy.
Oh of course give Tehenhuin a special commandment where he gets a small amount of captives for each turn.
LL: Tetto'eko
LH: Chakax
Lord: Relic Priest or Skink High Priest
Hero: Saurus Totem Warrior
Unit: Arcanadon (Engine of the Gods)
Unit: Great Crested Skinks (Axe & Shield) / Great Crested Skinks (Shortbow)
Unit: Eternity Guardians / Revered Guardians (upgraded Temple Guard with Sword & Shield, Immune to Psychology, Unbreakable, Stubborn, Magic Attack)
Unit: Skink Culchan Riders / Skirmishers
Unit: Skink Horned One Riders
RoR: Jungle Braves (Great Crested Skinks w/ Shortbows)
RoR: Lord Kroak's Honour Guard (Eternity Guardians)
RoR: Tichi-Huichi's Raiders (Skink Horned One Riders)
Deliverance of Itza spell VFX update
Geomantic Web update - Slann in Temple-cities are able to remote cast catacylsm spells in Lizardmen territory
Blessed Spawnings rework - Able to select which Old Ones you want to devote a Lizardmen unit
They can still add the thunder lizzard XD
Maybe some saurus variant that has anti infantry ?
@@ghoststefan4321anti infantry saurus sounds like putting a hat on a hat lmao
@@valeclaw1697 You can have all the weapon strength in the world, but if you can't hit the side of a barn it might as well not be there.
Or if they won't give that to the saurus give it to the temple guard by adding a anti infantry variant, because temple guard are the most meh of all elite infantry.
I was hoping for Tichi huichi in Tehenhauins dlc
I definitely would like to see a Kroxigor Hero add it to the lizardmen roster
Another one of those lords added that made more sense as a hero . I'm looking at you Huntsmaster
Agree
I love the Kroxigor Ancient Lord, but he really doesn't hold up to the Old blood past like, level 5
Some giant serpents of Sotek would be fun
Ironically the Bretonnian Armoury chain that gives all armies +2 Armour is a better take on the Geomantic Web than the actual thing.
You found Tiq-taq-to so forgettable you called him Tettoekko lmao
Had to go back and double check what I heard. Was it intentionally savage, or accidentally SAVAGE?
Tettoekko should be added
Skink on the mobility scooter is cool
CA where is my skink priest with the missing lores of magic ?
Tetto'eko !
@@tenaciousgamer6892 No the generic ones but it would nice if he to got them
What lores are missing for them? Did they have access to all of them?
I really hope more missing magic lores are added so I don't need to keep using mods like Lore of Death and Heavens for Ogres.
Skinks tragically never had full access, though they really should have light, fire, and life imo.
@@sarmelionbloodweaver4789in 6ed there were rules for sacred spawnings which gave access to different lores in themes armies. Huanchi priests got shadow, Chotec got fire, Sotek got beasts, Tepok got light, etc etc
Units I'd love to see:
Tetto'eko as a LL
Chakax as a LH
Saurus Braves (mid-tier dual weapon Anti-Infantry)
Temple Guard (Great Weapons)
Thunder Lizard
Additional blessed spawnings, since only core WHII units have them.
Obviously a rework for the Geomantic Web and Economy I think is in order.
I recommend using the "Victory Conditions Overhaul" mod if you're getting tired of the vanilla campaign. Sets a lot of new objectives for you to go for when you start a new campaign. It's 74% done and the next lord to get an overhaul is Tehenhauin.
The building issue is that the lizardmen have a ton of buildings and nowhere to build them, changing the weapon crafters commune to only be buildable in capitals in game 3 also made the problem far more atrocious.
Due to the building issue Lizardmen also got far more impacted by the warhammer 3 change to much fewer 10 slot cities and 4 region provinces.
Last Defenders, Hexoatl and Itza desperately need some interesting mechanics instead of the old entirely plain warhammer 2 launch paint on them.
I would be entirely okay with Tiktaq'to being turned into a legendary hero.
Whether Tlaqua gets a new lord or is removed and another faction is introduced by dlc or flc doesn't matter.
Geomantic Web needs mechanics tied to it, whether it is teleportation, influencing the climate or unlocking stronger magic, etc, just do something with it.
Blessed units have had no additions since warhammer 2 launch and the old factions has no influence on how many or what types they get, getting blessed spears or skink skirmishers as your first reward feels awful.
There need to be some kind of mechanic around getting blessed units.
Honestly the factions that get them from faction mechanics don't really need the added generic quests for them on top of their own mechanic as that just makes everyone else seem horrible in comparison to the ones that can spawn exactly the unit they want(Nakai, Tehenhauin) or the ones that get a ton of them form other quests(Oxyotl).
Give Kroq'Gar a way to secure extra blessed sauruses and Horned Ones, give Mazdamundi a way to secure Temple Guards, etc.
I like the idea of one faction that entirely focuses on helping all the other lizardmen and can revive dead factions,
But I would like to take it a step further and also say that in that case Lizardmen are one of the few cases where that could extend beyond their own race.
Empire gets 4 legendary heroes, someone already having 1 isn't really worth mentioning when trying to justify adding another one, characters that make sense make sense regardless how many heroes exist from before.
It entirely makes sense for Lizardmen in a DLC getting 1 legendary hero from the DLC and 1 from FLC.
I will go ahead and claim that these fewer 10-slots are not intended. Sartosa wasn't, Gaean Vale wasn't, Karak Eight Peaks wasn't. They're likely all just bugs and oversights like Massif Orcal, Erengrad and Lahmia currently are for some factions.
I was just typing out a comment about not being able to build the weapon crafter commune in a tier 3 building anymore lol.
Full agree on the Blessed units needing a better mechanic. My current playthrough, I got Blessed Spears, Blessed Skirmishers, Blessed Chameleon skirmishers, and never... NEVER anything else. The only reason I got a Blessed Solar Engine was because it came from a confederated faction. While the Chameleons were nice, when I desperately wanted some Temple Guards to bolster my primary army, I was never given the option. I just got skinks and skinks and skinks, with the odd saurus spears.
They should get a racial resource system, in the now useless plaques from TWW2.
These should be exchangable for blessed spawnings, or other effects that are powered up by your overall Geomantic Web strength; like a global boost to replenishment, buffs, army ability spawns of things, big cost reductions to global recruitment, ect. Something like a second Rite system, baked into the new, let's call it "Gifts of the Old Ones" mechanic. Say you get these plaques from a couple constant sources, and then through a sorta Grudge-like miniquest system that tells you this faction has some plaques, and to get them back you either need to occupy a particular city, or secure at least a defensive alliance with them.
Maybe you can also spend these to dedicate a particular unit to a particular old one, giving some effect.
Slann should also get Teleportation stance and access to the Lore of Signatures, Dread Saurians should get Wallbreaker and some buffs to armor or physical resistance, still waiting on Jungle Swarms, Chakax, and Tetto'ekko.
Regarding faction reworks, most of the factions need work. Oxyotl is probably the only one that doesn't need to be touched at all. Tehenhauin is my prime concern and, while close to being good, he just isn't there right now. He needs to get unique RoRs like Ikit got in their DLC. his sacrificial pyramid needs to be heavily adjusted so that most of the options aren't just straight up worthless as well as significantly improving the Invocation of Sotek to properly reflect that you're summoning a physical god into the world. I would also adjust his Skaven race war mechanic so that you don't just run out of rats to kill.
Race-wide, both the Geomantic Web and the Blessed Spawnings need total overhauls. The Web could do a few different things, including giving army ability spells to represent Slann sending magic through the Web and allowing the teleportation of armies. The Spawnings are abysmal as-is and should take a page from 6th edition Sacred Spawns. Basically give the Lizardmen the ability to recruit blessed units that are blessed by individual Old Ones and each gives a particular buff.
My full rework suggestion can be found on the forum: community.creative-assembly.com/total-war/total-war-warhammer/forums/8-general-discussion/threads/4658-future-race-rework-lizardmen?page=0#post-58972
Cult of Sotek by far the strongest Lizardmen faction in the game. They get free buildings, easier confederations (due to skaven war mechanic), Lotl Botls for stackable 20% upkeep reduction, 25% Ward Save banners, On demand blessed units, and Invocation of Sotek is basically an overcasted Wind of Death which is not bad at all.
Lizardmen is my 2nd favorite order race behind Dawi.
Change the way recruitment works for lizardmen, it should be more heavily focused on the spawning aspect.
I actually like the Buildings focus of Lizardmen. It makes them different and makes you think about province/tech planning. Having to put some thought into planning out your campaign isn’t a bad thing. WH3 already has a problem that every province is fire and forget build Econ/Growth and repeat.
Geomantic Web should be a pooled resource that they can spend and recoup. Maybe add spawning pools ala Nurgle’s cycling buildings.
The buildings would be fine if they also worked like that for everyone else, as it is now it is a punishment to playing Lizardmen in multiplayer campaigns because nobody else has the issue of too few slots to build what they need.
@@freedomfighter22222 - Give the buildings more benefits, or, even better, tie them into the features of new mechanics like an updated Geomantic Web. Races don’t have to (and shouldn’t) play the same or operate at the same speed.
The lizardmen really could use some warhound birds. Finally something to catch Skaven early game.
Maybe as early weak AP chaff cav ? To differentiate them from hounds ?
Jungle Swarms
My opinion on lizardman DLC is as follows: GIVE ME MOREEEEE!!! And especially Culchans.
Agreed. Really want Culchan cavalry as a fast skirmish option for factions like Tehenhauin and Oxyotl.
Another option for a monster would be the Great Wyrm. Essentially a Wyvern from the Dragon Isles, it was featured in the 2004 Warhammer Chronicles supplement. It would be a true air melee-monster for the Lizardmen, which the Coatl isn't. I'd like the following:
Tetto'eko LL
Chakax LH
Skink High Priest (6th edition)
Kroxigor Champion (invented)
Arcanadon (Lustria supplement)
Culchan Riders (all over)
Skink Bows (6th edition)
Great Wyrm (2004 Chronicles)
Skink Braves/Revered Guardians/Skink Horned One Riders (8th edition/Tichi-Huichi)
"Nottingham of all places" - I was not prepared for this insult. That's going in the book
What I personally want is Amazons as a lizardmen faction or subfaction
Amazons as units for Lizardmen would work much better than on their own and would be a fun mixup to make them feel more like a general "jungle" faction. I would especially love them if Amazon units all came with Woodsman, that would be a lot of fun to play around with - sprinkling a little bit of WE vibes in.
I really, really hope they DON'T. Lizardmen are the one Order race that isn't mostly human or human-adjacent and there are plenty of concepts that can still be used for them, they don't need a fanservice unit.
@@Draxynnic
Viking Space Marine-ettes wearing gold and stone slab power armor with laser guns aren't exactly fanservice.
And it would be really, really funny if the best Norsca unit wasn't even something Norsca could take.
Again.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 That's not how the Amazons have ever been depicted (the odd piece of scifi tech similar to the Lizardmen, yes, well-armoured... no, they've pretty much always had fanservice outfits), and it's also kinda missing the main point: Lizardmen are, well, the reptilian faction. Throwing in a bunch of human women breaks their theme.
Alongside the faction reworks, imma also add that the whole RITES system needs a rework!
It's basically *'pay up, perform rite,wait a few turns, repeat'* there is nothing to it even though the rites offer quite substantial rewards
It bothers me that the Rite system wasn't kept as a universal thing for Warhammer III, but got added in various different ways instead.
Nakai needs to be confederable. AFAIK you can't confederate Nakai nor can he confederate other leaders.
But yeah Nakai's biggest issue is that the Defenders of the Great Plan do not, in fact, defend anything. Either a garrison buff is needed, or allowing them to run armies.
EDIT: Also just as a side, maybe also give him something akin to Elspeth's gardens so he can teleport to other Lizardmen settlements. Really make him feel like the spirit of the jungle by having him show up where he's needed.
(Maybe also let him respawn from the Defender's capital as well because I suck at hordes and would like to be able to live after a lost battle.)
EDIT 2, ELECTRIC BOOGALOO: According to some of y'all, you can in fact confederate Nakai and confederate with Nakai, I've only played him a handful of myself, because I dislike hordes and don't have enough practice with them to get very far, so I haven't been in a situation as other lizardlords to nab him as he often dies very early in campaigns.
There used to be a cool mod in Warhammer II called "Nakai, The Hound of Tlaxlan" or something to that effect that let your vassal faction recruit armies and build up the settlements you gave them among other things, but it doesn't appear to have been ported over.
@@HiddenEvilStudios Can you not? I remember confederating as Nakai... it caused a bit of a bug in the quest battle, because confederated Gor-Roq ended up having his army controllable instead of AI controlled.
It might have been a TW:W2 affair though. But a swear a recent multiplayer game, the confederate button was there, I just never got enough positivity before he was wiped.
What do you mean? You can confederate him in Warhammer III. I did it with Oxyotl, I confederated all the legendary lizard men lords with him
Nakai was my priority and I got him first, no mods or such. Kinda hard tbh, you have to use diplomacy and drag him into a bunch of wars, ally with him and etc. but you can definitely confederate him. Would like it to be easier just like the dwarves mechanic that they got in the last update. Would be dope
...
More than anything, i wish lizardmen were just given more habitable climates. It just gets so repetitive to be more or less stuck on the southern part of the IE map unless you're playing Oxy, Nakai or with mods.
maybe the geomantic web (higher tier?) could change climates? not sure how feasible that is to engineer for the game devs but would be cool if you could 'push back' the chaos wastes and turn them to jungle or other climates
@@zachr1528 I like the idea alot. Although that would require them to rework the geomantic web so that it kicks in before turn 50+, i'd say.
Really important, make the AI lizardmen and Yuan Bo, Markus Wulfhart as well as Alberic de Bordeleaux enemies. Make them hate each other.
Something I would like to see for Nakai is that when you capture settlements with landmarks use able for the lizardmen, that you get that bonus as well.
Generic Lizardmen Lords need love to make them give unique army and faction bonuses:
1) At level 15 and 30, each Lord can choose between 5 or 6 short skill trees buffing a small group of units (skinks, Saurus, Krox and Heroes, Monsters, Mounted and Flying). The buffs can be slightly higher or lower according to the lord and group.
2) At level 35, each lord can increase a hero capacity by one, and increase their own lord type recruit level by 2 or 3.
3) At level 40, each lord can give a faction-wide buff (armor, growth, public order, unit cost, etc). This can again be a choice unique to each lord type.
Skink priests also need more lores of magic to make Slann lords less the best choice. Or another option would be to trade skink lords for skink priest lords at a high level (similar to the Warriors of Chaos lord upgrade tree).
I like your idea for a Great Plan mechanic. For me, the geomantic web is one of the few game mechanics I just typically ignore because it feels so inconsequential, so I'd like to see it either improved or replaced with something better. I also think Gor-rok would have worked better as a legendary hero than a lord, but I'd hate to see people who actually do enjoy him lose a lord if he switched. I don't have any recommendations for it, but I actually would like to see some improvements to Tehenhauin. One of my favorite characters, but he just feels underpowered and a bit of a slog.
I LOVE the Lizardmen roster but their mechanics are so dull and out of date I just can’t bring myself to play them
They just need a good polishing and a couple updates here and there. The Geomatic Web is the most embarrassing part of the LM. I hope it happens. They are my second favorite faction.
And your favorite?
@@heiligeteekanne Vampire Count! XD
@@BearPawSwipe VLAD! VON CARSTEIN!
I think they will get a big rework.. but I don’t think they need more units/lords..
dissagree I think every faction from game 1 and 2 should at least get one dlc. Tetto'echo I want him so bad.
A thunder lizard with the shape of a sauropod that sort of just walks over infantry would be awesome, like a terrestrial version of the Thunderbarge. Could even give it wallbreaker so it can deal with sieges.
lizardmen get some amazing units at tier 3 ... but they all need 2 buildings. horny ones are great cav but you also need the smithy (and 2 turns recruitment ehw), all the tamed bastilladons are pretty strong for tier 3, but they also need the temples.
For the geomantic web just having all the adjascent regions/have allies have them should give you an initial boost and the pylons should not only be useful when you got 2 connected but should rather work on their own as long as you own all adjescent (or allies own them) and then all adjescent regions should also get boosted by it. then maybe add some mechanic like the slave/labour edicts that unlock and power up as you restore the web to make it a bit more active. maybe also tie the blessed spawnings into this mechanic as only the cult of sotek and oxyotl can get them somewhat reliably and they are very cool and fun to have.
Also pls no generic caster lord for lizards. Generic caster lords are already boring on a lot of facitions but espeically for Lzm it would make the Slaan so much less special.
Good ideas Nathan. Tech tree and Geomantic Web has long bin bad for Lizardmen and more uniqeu mechanics, intrests, variation among the Lords would be nice.
I think Tik'Taq'to should have a special 'stable' mechanic of sorts revolving around buffing up dinos- especially the flying ones. Possibly revolving around acquiring certain resources they would need (meat, medical herbs, rare animals) to give you incentive to go out go out and conquer some of the surrounding area.
I agree with you on the fact that Tiky boy should be THE faction that's motivated to go outward. He's the master scout after all, maybe global quest to discover certain factions, or reach certain regions to report the strange happenings detected there...
They get content 24/7 and have by far the most legendary lords how can u still ask for more while bretonnia got one lord and one hero, norsca is the same since warhammer 1 from 2016 and the empire still has a fireman feeling instead of unifying a nation???
One problem is that while lizardmen got a lot of updates many updates really were adding yet another dinosaur, they are useful but not the majority of each army. For me the biggest problem is the base faction does not have much variety - 4 types of Skink, 2 chameleon, 5 sauras foot soldiers and 3 cavalry. After about turn 20 you end up spamming armies of mostly shielded units (spear or mace) and the odd temple guard.
None of the content they got was especially impactful, and their base mechanics are almost untouched, from an already anemic starting position.
It's not like Skaven, where modern Skaven is vastly vastly different from playing release TWW2 Skaven.
Besides Oxyotl's campaign mechanics, Lizardmen today are much the same as they were in TWW2, just with a few more dinos and choices of starting location and unit buffs.
Lizardmen got shafted as Player 2 in all three of their DLCs; the geomantic web still does nothing, blessed spawnings still suck, there are tons of quality of life or logic changes that they really do need. They have never gotten any compensation for the building slot reduction that impacts Lizardmen more than just about any other race, they actually got this doubled down on by making the Weapon Crafter's Commune require a large settlement instead of a small. Their units still require multiple buildings frequently; the Dread Saurian is still hilariously bad compared to TWW3 monsters that cost significantly less and don't have recruitment caps. They still have logical and lore holes in their armies, and still have wet tissue units that have either always been bad, or were nerfed into the ground because of multiplayer and now do nothing. Legendary Lords are still almost across the board worse than a Life Slann, the Skink Oracle helped this tremendously, but they NEED a Life Skink Priest to restore Lord balance. Slann that aren't Life are still just worse than Life, even with the addition of other lores. Slann should also absolutely get the Lore of Signatures.
I agree other races need updates too, some of them even more critically, but that doesn't mean Lizardmen don't need one, too.
Other races are at even worse state but sure they need stuff for balance
My personal pick for a hero is Eternity Wardens - basically a generic version of Chakax. Current Saurus heroes usually end up on carnosaurs, so the Eternity Warden could be a strong defensive foot hero that can serve as a bodyguard or stand in an infantry block.
I think having lizardmen vs Cathy jade vampires and tomb kings with the theme of lost empires could be really cool, as for units I'd want this
- Tekko eko LL
- Chakax LH
- beasts/metal/death/shadows Slann FLC
- chemelon elder
- chemelon Skink hero
- Kroxigor sentinel hero
- feral Culchen/Culchen riders
- Skink cold one riders
- ancient razordon
- arcanadon
Skaven also do not have any research available at the start. But theirs only branch from three early buildings so it rarely matters.
Ok, some ideas for the Lizard men
Lustria: most armies receive attrition when in regions with Chaos, Skaven and Vampiric corruption. Why not have something similar for non-Lizardmen armies inside Lustria? The lore constantly talks about the dangers of Lustria, so it would be lore friendly to have non-Lizardmen armies experience attrition unless their passage is granted by a Lizardman faction (as if they sent guides to assist). This could also tie in to other factions by giving them and option to "cleanse" a region they possess at some cost of time and money (and possibly taking some casualties in the process). Lizardmen armies could then try to "restore" such cleansed properties and create new ones in suitable terrain (the Southlands for example) with a variation of the Wood Elves mechanic.
Geomantic Web: Keep the current basic benefit but add cumulative attributes and benefits. make it five stages: at Stage one you get the basic rewards, at stage two enemy armies cannot stalk or ambush and movement is slowed, Stage three adds jungle swarms to battles in the province, Stage four enables a Storm of Xholonkha (probably butchered that name) in battles in the province, and Stage five enables ambush parties (like Oxyotls secret sanctums) to possibly intervene. Combined with the Lustrian attrition above, this would make attacking Lizardman cities a costly affair
Mazdamundi: He definitely needs some more cataclysm spells and Shield of the Old Ones. There are some good mods that get pretty close (Tectonic Mazdamundi, Mazdamundi Mover of Mountains). Maybe give him mechanic to promote basic units to Blessed variants akin to the Chaos mechanic. I like the concept of missions to promote the Great Plan. Maybe have an ability to summon a very buffed up Nakai like Kemmler summons Krell
Kroq-Gar: He is in a pretty good situation. add some spawning Chaos armies for him to smash (like the rifts in the Reals of Chaos campaign). This could tie in with communication from Mazdamundi. Each such battle could yield a "currency" of tablets which could be used to buff his units, nerf enemy units, or acquire other units
Gorok: Also in a good Place. I like the "Protect Lustria" mission Idea. Like Kroq-Gar, he could have "Chaos rift" army spawning mechanic and reap Tablets to buy more defensive supplies and equip his units like the Greenskins do with scrap
Tiq-Taq-To: He could have a mechanic that enables him to dispatch a Flying Corp (4 Terradon riders, 2 Bola riders, and three Ripperdactyls for example) to assist in any battle in his territory. As he gains affinity with allies, that option might be extended to them as will. His army should have a significant increase in campaign movement range. The Rite of Tzunki need to be rebranded as Rite of Tepok, and rather than resetting movement on campaign, should give tremendous buffs to his faction armies. Magic resistance and physical resistance for example. Stealthy Ripperdactyls would be terrifying...
Tehenhauin: I can't think of much for him. He has a good mechanic already. The Rite of Sotek needs to be reworked to be more impactful and cataclysmic. He could have a raiding stance in enemy territories to acquire more sacrificial offerings (like the Dark Elf raiding mechanic). Maybe add bonuses or reduce the cost of the sacrifice for sacrificing higher quality units: a Skavenslave is no equal to a Dark Elf Corsair.
Nakai: Ok here is the tough one. Maybe give him an option to build a "reserve Army". it would be recruited normally as he does but would not have any upkeep expense, and would not be available for his own use. Instead, when his Vassals are attacked, that reserve army will arrive as reinforcement at that location. it would be led by Nakai himself, and if the battle is lost, the reserve army units are not lost but will take time to reform. If Nakai were killed in that battle, he would simply return to his own horde and be weakened for two turns (tired and at half health for example). This would give some weight to having vassals and a way to protect them.
Oxyotl: Good place all around and has good Silent Sanctum mechanics. Maybe adjust his poisons so more than one unit can use them. Allow Oxyotl to use all of them with a toggle to use the various poisons as desired
Lord Kroak: I know people think he is already hyper-powered. I think his spells can go further though. No casting range limitation, Teclis-level Winds of Magic (makes sense, the Slanns taught the Elves. For variety, give him some more random spells like the Blue Scribes mechanic. At higher levels, his Deliverance of Itza could be available as a battle ability Faction and even Race wide with one, two or three charges in those battles dependent on the Geomantic Web status (another reason to build those pylons)
The Lizardmen units need some small attack buffs and some more armor (especially with Temple Guards) that will let them stand toe-to-toe with the best of the Chaos champions. Maybe a "Champion" style unit of Temple Guard
I think giving Mazdamundi access to cataclysm spells would be a good idea, though I mean Gelt already has the Lore of Metal one so people might start to feel that CA is handing them out like candy. It would work for lore reasons, but I think if Mazdamundi were to get Cataclysm spells for lore reasons, then other spellcasters (of the vein of Mazdamundi or better) should get them as well, where applicable in the lore.
The BEASTMAN tech is also locked behind challenges. Their Tech should be broken out; one is setup as a challenge system that gives bonus stats/Tech and then you have a regular tech tree that you can just research. It sucks you are cornered into "changing everything you're doing to get an open tech(that you then have to wait while it researches) or just accept you don't get another Tech" They also should unlock more Units per Dread Upgrade unlocked. I'm happy to see this focus on the Lizardmen as well, I agree with the thoughts and they need more love!
One minor change they made between game two and three that I feel really hampers my campaigns is that they removed the ability to build the forge and the scrying pool and the slaan building in minor settlements. So now if you want access to those parts of the tech tree and the associated units you have to build them in your capital. But you already have at least two tier four buildings and three advanced military buildings, not to mention your economic building. It becomes very competitive for spots. I would love to be able to build those one off tier three buildings in my minor settlements again just to clear up some room in the Capitol
They better give them all available lores for all their magic users, a wholly new tech-tree, unique mechanics for those LLs that don't have their own, enhaced mechanics for those that have unique ones, a complete overhaul of the geomantic web mechanic to allow them to cause tons of shenanigans.
Also give all of them Teeny-Weenie's sacrifice mechanic and remove unlocking RoRs from it (Teeny gets his expanded and modded to get extra effects from sacrifices if he pays extra).
And finally change the Coatl's head.
I'd recommend looking at the Old One's new era - Lizardmen 5.0 mod as it covers quite a few things. 1, It reworks the buildings similar to the Empire and Dwarfs rework, putting some buildings down a tier and getting rid of the smith requirements, 2, It reworks the tech tree and while you still need some buildings it feels a lot better. It even looks like a pyramid like how you suggested.
Tiktaqto was the most iconic lord and one of my favorites in the game, his all air armies are unique enough to be memorable imo, he could just benefit from general lizardmen update, not sure what could be added to him specifically
As far as new units go I think the lizardmen need something to help with attacking siege battles, if it were up to me I’d want have something like a long necked sauropod Dino like a brachiosaurus that could fling boulders in a tall arc like a plagueclaw catapult. I’d also make it decent in melee against infantry and maybe make it a tier 4 or 5 unit.
Lizards should absolutely have a teleport mechanic. Slaan teleport armies in the lore. Also, the strength of the geomantic web could reduce the cool down.
The problem that stands out to me with your idea for Gor-Rok is that 1) Lustria is almost as much of a pain to defend as Norsca, and 2) WH3 really punishes you for playing defensively. Aggression and expansion is key, much moreso than in WH2 - if you're fighting a lot of battles on your own territory, you're already kinda losing.
Another standing issue with the Lizardmen has been... the Saurus. Narratively, they're supposed to be on-par with or even superior to Chaos Warriors, but they often struggle to compete at their price point and just generally struggle in late campaign where comparable factions have access to tier 4 infantry. Even Temple Guard are held back by 1) only existing in an anti-large role, and 2) barely having any tech tree support due to the bizarre decision to make them "not Saurus units."
Maybe Mazdamundi could be the ony one having access to the Web, but the goal would be to help other Lizardmen factions in order to get the web stronger and enact the great plan, with a few events here and there, a few battle against Chaos etc. Pretty simple yet effective and rewarding.
The 5th Ed Korhil was cool. We had a natural STR 5 elf with the model to match... Other than that I’d just like to see them actually use those formations they are so famous for.
Are there any skinks that could be used as legendary hero’s.
What i've been advocating for for lizardmen, alongside a tech tree rework, is a new faction mechanic "The great plan": at the start of each game, the lizardmen roll 6 random long campaign goals from among a list that are things like capture area, capture specific difficult settlement, wipe out faction, and the like, + exterminate the Skaven, and each of the 7 goals grants buffs that improve you faction wide, often scaling with the geomantic web. stuff like: purge corruption, improve habitability, strengthen economy, and the like.
Personally I think all the tech trees should follow the same flow economy, military division then divide each in sub categories like for military: infantry, cavalry, monsters, artillery, lords & heroes. I think the chaos dwarfs interface would be best for this with a merger of the empire tech tree at the very least stop having useless or lock outs that don't theme together
It's kind of crazy how much love game 2 races need.
Lizards and Orks are my two favorite factions, i just got the news Orks are getting at least one more DLC, it would be a dream if the lizards get one last one as well!
I think Tehenhauin needs a little attention as well. More skink variants, both red and normal. Bows, sword and shield, axes, culchan/horned one riders, snakes swarms and snake monsters, the final sacrifice should be a huge single entity serpent.
He needs to be incentivised to go skinks and snakes as his lore states, sure he himself buffs their stats, but his other skink generals need to be better at buffing them. I think there needs to be more of a reward for personally exterminating skaven factions, that the prophet is actually fulfilling his mission statement.
Oxyotl's was campaign so much more of an interesting challenge when he was in the north and surrounded by enemies on all fronts. Since he's been in the south, it's always a steam roll for him IF the player is using him, otherwise he just gets wiped out by Kairos in 9 out of 10 campaigns when both are AI. He really needs to be moved back into the north, OR the south needs to be fleshed out more with a lot more going on in terms of factions.
One of the weirdest and kinda funny character lizardmen have, is the slan named ulha'up , also called the mad slan, for the guy wanted to see the world and is being carried, like thorgrim is, by his temple guards
Tini-Huini as skink chief legendary hero would be great, especially to go with the skink skirmish cavalry idea
Great video, I really do hope Lizardmen get the touch up they need and another DLC.
Here's my pain points with one of my favorite races to play, THE TECH TREE is atrocious, the tech tree is just so restrivitve and squished and awful to deal with.
Secondly is the buildings, way too many buildings that basically do nothing or are too niche but are required for techs or the like.
And thirdly the geomantic web just kinda sucks, it's not cool at all and it's bonuses sure could be good but you never actually get up the geomantic web before you have left that province so damn long ago so it just becomes useless.
And fourth would be the roster actually, I love the roster we have but it feels like things are just missing (Coming from someone who don't know the lore or the units from the tabletop) but to me things feel incomplete, like why is there so few saurus? Where's my late game saurus? And where is the skinks variants, I thought they would have ton of skink units but they kinda don't When it comes to dinosaurs they feel great, are cool and there's plenty to choose from but the race just becomes big dinosaur spam eventually, I wanna use saurus, fire lizards, magic, charging in with different dinosaurs or having a supporting army for a big center piece.
So while I love playing them, they could get a lot better, I really like the units we have as said but there's just things missing or things don't go together as I would like. And they are really lacking their special sauce otuside of Oxyotl and Tehenhauin and Nakai, they ahve special mechanics, quests and more but the base Lizardmen just feel like they have nothing going on sadly. To me they are completely sandbox at the moment for the most part.
Well that's my rambling, have a nice day.
Lord Kroak should be like the exact opposite of the Changeling. Late game he should even be able to help out the other Order forces. Imagine having the ability to buff Boris and support him in battle in a theoretical End Times DLC, but as Lord effing Kroak. Get bent Archaon lol.
I want a chameleon lord and hero maybe with range and melee variants. Skink caster lord and a kroxigor hero. I would like to see blessed spawning tied into the geomantic web so you get some periodically rather than like a dozen through an entire campaign.
I am a newbie and started my first game as the Lizardmen. I can confirm that the buildings and tech tree are annoying. Kroak (I mean the legendary hero slann guy) is a total beast and my shielded saurus are total beasts. Love them
More lizardmen content? Another LL and LH? A rework for the web? This seems like a great idea to me, a perfectly normal warm-blood. I know all my warm-blood friends also want Lizardmen content to advance the great plan... the salty ones with the flying Carnosaurs, the ones with that tasty like donkeys, the half frozen bear ones and even the short cruch ones.
-Three skinks in a trench coat.
There are several issues with Lizardmen.
The Bloated Building situation. It feels so much like a waste of space to build SEVERAL Single Tier buildings in a Capital, especially when most of the Lizardmen provinces have plenty of Landmarks or Resource buildings attached to them. I think the Cav building is the worst offender, you need to build 2 Buildings in the provinces to unlock 2 (not even especially great) Cav units. Star Chamber is another with no real upgrades to it.
Furthermore there are only 2, maybe 3 Provinces in the entirety of Lustria that have 4 settlements in it and in all cases at least one of those is in unpleasant climate.
Main Building line has the longest construction time of all races and plenty of their other buildings as well. Yes you can reduce it by 1 turn via research, can spend a unique lvl 20 Skill on a Saurus Old Blood (other traits are better) for another -1 and you could "switch in time the edict" to one that recudes the construction time by another -1 or even -2 on high Geomantic Web level. It's obviously balanced around it, but requires a tremendous amount of micromanagement and awareness on the player side.
Most races finish their Tier 5 settlement between Turn 60 and 70, for Lizardmen you might not even be done completely upgrading by turn 85
They also struggle with money a lot. Their income is so-so, you REALLY have to go out of your way to get it to a slightly above average level at the expense of Recruitment Buildings, their unit Roster is incredibly expensive and their buildings don't come cheap either.
For the Geomantic Web I would wish for it to tie in with Blessed Spawnings. Kind of like how Nurgle increase their unit pool. Depending on the geomantic level you have a higher chance of a stronger Tier unit to become available in your pool. Maybe even only 1% chance per turn, but that per Geomantic Building you have and the level of it determines how high Tier those units could (but don't have to RNGesus) be.
And yes of course giving the LL and their campaigns a makeover. Mazdamundi is TWO skills different from any generic Slann. As Campaign mechanics he could easily use equivalents from the Changing of Ways, or Gelt's Mage mechanics.
I like your Idea with Gor'Rok only would say to make it more like Alariel's Bar, the more territory of Lustria is controlled by Lizardmen, the better the boni will be. Dealing with incursions would feel like Wulfhardts Mechanic, or Tehenauhins mess when you have half Skavenkind sail over to Lustria to wage war and all other Skaven or Lizardmen freeze in apathy.
Kroq'Gar is okay'ish? Obviously, no interesting game mechanics, same goes for TiqTaq'To
For Oxyotl I hope they can eventually fix the slowdown Problem, I can manage to crash my game by turn 6 with him
I want my eternity warden unit. Lizardmen aspiring champions would be an awesome addition 🦎
Lustria Rises + Lost Calm: Jurassic Normal
Some higher tier skink infantry would be nice. Maybe some higher tier chameleon skinks in smaller numbers but better poison etc.
My poor Tiktaq'to. Nathan forgot his name and named him Tetto'eko😢
Speaking of Tetto'eko, I would be glad to see him in the game.
Rework geomantic web, buffing commandments feels very insignificant.
As for the tech tree, yea agree, it feels beyond basic and it be nice to have some extra deviation that could be special for legendary lords.
Lizardmen and Vampire Coast need an update the most, imo.
Tiktakto could be moved to ind or kitesurfing when it opens up just make him more interesting and more of a reason to play
We don't have a proper "dino lord". Kygor would work as a very obscure lord that could lead whole armies of just feral dinos and buff them up. Id love to see thunder lizards or even great wyrms!
Play Lizardmen with SFO. Totally different tech tree and you are incentivized to build up the geomantic web to increase the Research Rate.
The problem with Saurus on Tier 1 is it makes the Skinks a bad pick (except for certain lords). They could either buff Sarus to be a better Tier 2 unit or rework the Skinks to have a better role in early game or add something to their building to make building it worth it.
lizardmen could also get amazons as mercenaries. They were only a supplement in white dwarf, but they had their own unique lore of magic and rules for at least 1 unit. Granted, they are not going to be as impactful as a new centrepiece, but I would argue that having access to a new pool of units and heroes might give them a boost early game that can help players overcome the struggle (especially at higher difficulties).
I think you are crazy. Lizardmen are the STRONGEST campaign race in the game in my opinion. They make SO much money, and get so many heroes. Like turn 50 and you are recruiting level 30 heroes for less than 1000 gold.They could be more "fun" but they do not need to be stronger. I would love to have some control over the blessed spawnings, instead of save scumming or just accepting the crappy blessed skink skirmishers.
they should make the Thunder lizard a long neck Dino like in the Lost Jurassic mod
They will likely just make you able to fast travel using the Geomantic Webb, as long as you're connected to your destination and have that Pylon thing.
Also, what did you call Tick-Tack-Toe?
Thanks for the video
i am happy to see they are getting a fix in the future they may just need 4-5 baby reworks over the .0 patches with the geoweb, tech tree and Kroq-gar,, gor-rok, , tiktaq'to getting mechanics
I want the skink wizard, I love skinks and his model is really cool!
How about being Ble to build pylons in allied settlements like the dark lady's garden of moor?
sotek's rituals are op enough that the faction snowballed for me to be the largest empire ive had by the same period of time as any other faction in the game, i would like to see some new units but the lizardmen are kinda just gonna be more of the same if they add anything, id rather see an update for the vampires
Wasn’t there a mod that added troglodytes to the lizard men faction that had some decent archers? What about those or like small unit temple guard archers like ushabti with bows?
So some of my thoughts:
1. The geomantic web is supposed to be crazy powerful, no? Make it supper powerful. I’d even make it where it could terraform neighboring providences.
2. You missed blessed spawnings. They haven’t been touched since WH2 vanilla. It’s only base game units that randomly assigned.
3. Love your GorRok idea, I would just tweak it where if his army was attacking any army within the Lustrua area it would count as defense. And then once enough was done you would cast the barrier around lustria.
3. Does TikTaq need anything? IMO not really and that’s ok.
4. Tetto’ekko as LL and Chax has LH
Instead of Chulcans I would prefer Raptadons to be honest. I know Age of Sigmar stuff is probably less likely, but I prefer them because they just look much more unique and seeing them in motion with their goofy looks would be fun. But I would also be happy with Chulcans.
The whole thing of not being able to use the AOS stuff in Warhammer is such a shame. So many of them asleep so superior designs
I remember when Itza was nearly impossible to beat.
6ed edition sacred spawnings, and geomantic web that lets you teleport, terraform, and fuck it why not an ability to cause earthquakes like Ostankyas ultimate hex
really like your ideas of for gor rok
I think Tehenhauin' mechanic of the pyramid could get a little reworked not major just a little bit.
I just played the empire campaign with the lizardmen and out of nowhere my empire pretty much gets wiped I’m so confused
Nakai needs a raiding stance.
Honestly Kroq gar makes way more sense being a wandering faction rather than Nakai the wanderer.
While I agree Lizardmen all need some semblance of a rework, and some more than others. I've recently looked at how many LLs each factions have. And I think with a whopping 7 LLs the only ones that have more are WoC, Legion of Chaos (Daniel) and the Monogods. And they dont even have enough LLs for some of those subfactions.
Personally I would rather other factions with way less LLs got more, but as I said Lizardmen (and they arent the only ones) should absolutely get a rework.
EDIT: Note that what I am saying above is purely about LLs and More Playable Factions. I think that more units and Legendary HEROEs for Lizardmen would actually be pretty cool!
I also wish they would re-do the Blessed Spawnings. Maybe make tham function like the Gifted Units for WoC? Where you can perform actions or build buildings that give you % chance in a given province for a Blessed Spawning Unit to appear for recruitment, up to a capacity, and buildings that grant this chance and Technology would raise the cap. So early on you maybe have a Capacity or say 2 for any potential unit, but no way to generate them. Then as you Reinforce the Geomantic Web, or do Missions or something. You get that % chance up from 0. And eventually start raising the Caps. All of this is primarily because I personally hate the RNG involved in getting the Blessed units in the current system. Sspecially when they are Not That Much Better than the originals anyway.
Luthor harkon doesn't approve of lizardman dlc...but won't mind of luthor harkon gets dlc for his faction
Please do something about Blessed Spawnings!
Sacred hosts
Warhammer 3 have updated some old and large tech trees, and made them more efficient but also.. not as unique. I don't just want a slim tech tree. There are research boosting traits to collect and I think we shouldn't slim that away from all the classes.
The dwarfs and the empire now have a a tech tree that you can quite easily finish before turn 100, which I think is too weak and too small. The tech tree kind of fades away from use once you're maxed out, and larger tech trees does tend to favor longer campaigns and not everything has to be a blitz.