I created this list with the rating in the video as I cant remember a thing going through it so fast :). So these are all the books with their rating: Books with an (A) are Anthology Books. In addition to the stars rating, books with 👍 received extra praise, those with 🤢 got a beating. 1. Horus Rising - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4.5* 👍 2. False Gods - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 3. Galaxy in Flames - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* (but essential) 4. The Flight of the Eisenstein -⭐⭐⭐ *3.5* 5. Fulgrim - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 6. Descent of Angels - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 7. Legion - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5* 👍 8. Battle for the Abyss - ⭐ *1* 🤢 9. Mechanicum - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 10. Tales of Heresy (A) - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 11. Fallen Angels - ⭐⭐ *2* 12. A Thousand Sons - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 👍 13. Nemesis - ⭐⭐ *2* 14. The First Heretic - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 15. Prospero Burns - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5* 👍 16. Age of Darkness (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 17. The Outcast Dead - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 18. Deliverance Lost - ⭐ *1* 19. Know No Fear - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5* 👍 20. The Primarchs (A) - ⭐ *1* 🤢 21. Fear to Tread - ⭐⭐ *2* 22. Shadows of Treachery (A) - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 👍 23. Angel Exterminatus - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 24. Betrayer - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5* 25. Mark of Calth (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 26. Vulkan Lives - ⭐ *1* (for all Salamander Novels, but in this List all have 1 Star) 27. The Unremembered Empire - ⭐⭐ *2* 28. Scars - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5* 👍 29. Vengeful Spirit - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 30. The Damnation of Pythos - ⭐ *1* 🤢 31. Legacies of Betrayal (A) - ⭐⭐ *2* 32. Deathfire - ⭐ *1* 33. War Without End (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 34. Pharos - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 35. Eye of Terra (A) - ⭐⭐ *2* 36. The Path of Heaven - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 37. The Silent War (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 38. Angels of Caliban - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 39. Praetorian of Dorn - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 👍 40. Corax (A) - ⭐⭐ *2* 41. The Master of Mankind - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5* 👍 42. Garro - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 43. Shattered Legions (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 44. The Crimson King - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 45. Tallarn (A) - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4.5* 👍 46. Ruinstorm - ⭐⭐ *2* 47. Old Earth - ⭐ *1* 48. Burden of Loyalty (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 49. Wolfsbane - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 50. Born of Flame - ⭐ *1* 51. Slaves to Darkness - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 52. Herald of the Siege (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* 53. Titandeath - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 54. The Buried Dagger - ⭐⭐⭐ *3.5*
I've decided to do some basic math to get an average rating for the whole saga (also, in my calculations I added 0.5 to book rating for extra praise and subtracted 0.5 for beating). The number I got in the end is 3.1 (rounded up). Not a very pretty number, but that's just my judgement. Basically, judging by the video and the ratings presented there, about 37% of the saga is worth any attention (ratings from 3.5 to 5.5 (also just my opinion)) with the biggest problem presented in the video is that despite the fact that saga has numerous well written stories, it's also heavily diluted with very substandard writing. This is the worst thing that can happen to any series which is supposed to be epic, but is risking to turn up to be just "meh" (again, just my opinion).
I'm not keen on Gaunt's Ghosts. Sure I'm basing it on the first two books only, but they felt... hmm just kinda there? Obviously his Eisenhorn stuff is great, but for book Commissars make mine a Cain.
@@stryke-jn3kv The first two Gaunt's Ghosts were practically all short stories stitched together. But yeah, it aims to be generic war stories and doesn't really rise above that most of the time. Though some like Necropolis and Only in Death are pretty decent, they also happen to both be siege novels and almost more about the settings than anything else. And there's some really interesting stuff, like the parts in Anarch where Abnett talks a little bit about the culture of the Sanguinary Worlds and the border marches of the Imperium. Though the rest of that book is a hot mess. Abnett is only at his best when he poking around at big idea stuff; his interpersonal stuff, which is a majority of the Gaunt's Ghosts books, is really lackluster.
@@stryke-jn3kv comparing Cain and Gaunt because they are both Commissars is like comparing Apples and Oranges as they are both fruits? (although after listening to the whole Horus Heresy and catching up on Eisenhorn and Bequin, Cain was a welcome relief).
My problem with False Gods will always be Horus himself. Dan Abnett was able to paint him as such a nuanced, interesting, almost ethereal character in Rising, but then, in False Gods, he's little more than the stereotypical, brutish (Chaos) Space Marine. Very little nuance made it from the first novel into the second, and I've always seen that as a tragically huge loss of potential.
YES! Completely agree. Horus is the title character for the series but he ceases to be a character from the moment he's stabbed with the stupid magic knife. It would have been so much better if he'd been motivated by his real doubts and fears about the Imperium and only started using Chaos as a tool to achieve his ends.
I'm reading through False Gods now and I've noticed the same thing. I understand that the stress of being Warmaster is getting to him and Erebus has been whispering sweet nothings into his ear but everything that made Horus interesting in Rising is nowhere to be found in False Gods
Yes, one of the best in the series. How he started each chapter with the date/time mark was genius in following events as they unfolded. Both sides competent too which was great. It's usually clever traitors with moronic loyalists. Nice to see some clever play from the loyalists aswell for a change. 5/5 great book.
For anyone curious the timeline error in The Outcast Dead has to do with Magnus the Red and his trying to warn Terra of the heresy. Basically somehow his message isn’t received until after the drop site massacre which is like Magnus saying Horus is a traitor and everyone is like yeah dude we know… To expand on this a little, Leman Russ got tricked into destroying Prospero by Horus before he was revealed as the traitor. Which doesn’t make any sense since Magnus’ warning happens after Horus is revealed as the traitor.
My entire experience with W40k is owning a small box of models and playing Dawn of war 1 when I was stuck in hospital as a young teen. I absolutely love your channel mate you have hooked me into a universe I knew nothing about.
Same, I shared a box set back in the 90’s with my bro and cousin, and although we had fun with it, we soon moved on. During lockdown I decided I’d build my young son an army for when he’s a bit older, and with TH-cam channels like this, the countless books and much better looking miniatures I’ve become immensely hooked. My son will now be sharing the armies I’ve built when he’s a bit older with his dad, but on the plus side, he’s going to have a hell of a book collection to go with it!
Betrayer with Jonathan Keeble narrating is number 1 for me. It brings so much character to a faction that could easily be considered one of the most 'tropey'.
Oh yeah. Jonathan Keeble is brilliant. Galaxy in Flames is not the greatest book and I think the three star rating, given in this video, is fair. However, his narration of Isstvan 3 events is phenomenal. It's so gripping. His tempo and world flow was next level.
@@borisdorofeev5602 its amazing. As of writing this the siege of terra is over. I’ve never read one book but listened and re listened to about 35 to 40 of the series and JK is unbelievably good. Betrayer, Scars and Master of Mankind being the best in my opinion.
I enjoyed Nemesis! The moment when Valdor points his finger at the bandits, after he crashes, and then pretends to shoot is one of the funniest moments I can remember in this series.
Make sure you check out Gunsight (James Swallow) for the follow up on Eristede Kell. A great perspective on how terrifying & inescapable Horus and the corruption of his domain can be.
Just been reading Praetorian of Dorn. You neglect to mention that the author manages to somehow got an Ork Waaagh into the Horus Heresy. Although to be fair I skipped that section because I didn’t really care about the Imperial fists characters backstory…
I really love Flight of the Eisenstein and Master of Mankind. I think the Custodes are some of the most interesting characters in the lore. I love A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns. The dichotomy between The Thousand Sons and Space Wolves is awesome. There are no wolves on Fenris.
one that really suprised me was the thousand sons. i was legit fckin sad at the end of this book. like really. didnt expect this from a warhammer novel. magnus did nothing wrong
I went into thousands sons finding them a little boring but finished it genuinely thinking about starting collecting them or at least getting Magus on my shelf.
They were binding daemons to themselves, putting everyone off with their arrogance, unwilling to listen to any viewpoint that wasn't their own, and had a completely misguided view of the Warp and knowledge that led them to dabble in horribly dangerous stuff. Hell, Magnus's idiotic "let's ignore my allies' and critics' concerns and just call everyone who doesn't agree with me an ignorant bigot" speech is the main reason why psykers were banned at Nikaea! The White Scars note in another novel (I forget which one) that all they needed to win at the council was for Magnus to keep his damn mouth shut! Also, Magnus broke the Webway. Which he didn't *need* to do, and he should've been more wary about since he knew that it was very important to the Emperor's plans even if he didn't have all the details. But he did it anyway because his ego wouldn't let him send word of Horus's treachery via anything but a giant Warp ritual. I love the Thousand Sons, but this whole "Magnus did nothing wrong" thing is complete groxshit. He wasn't cruel or callous on the scale of many other Primarchs, but he was still a total scrub who thought he was way stronger, smarter, and wiser than he really was and fucked up
@@1Korlash Show me on the doll where Magnus hurt you. Nothing he did was out of malice, he tried his best to do the right thing, and did the only thing he could to save his Legion. His critics at Nikaea were traitor scum and loyalist hypocrites and were in actual fact ignorant bigots.
@@1Korlash 100%. Magnus dug his own grave out of arrogance and spite. Whether he did everything wrong “accidentally” or “with good intentions” is moot. He did them because he believed he knew better and it all subsequently blew up in his face.
But the book was supposed to be about the alpha legion and it just wasn't they were side characters in their own book at best instead we learned about the 5-2 Chiliad and their bizarre mommy complex. I'm not saying that they were written badly and it does deserve some credit because at the time it wasn't widely known that alfarious and omigon were two separate people so this was kind of a big reveal.
@@themediocretellamechress9323 I’m not sure the book was “supposed” to be about Alpha Legion, yet it did feature them heavily and I kind of enjoyed what was there. I bet they are hard to write without ruining the mystery.
The First Heretic and the Betrayer are easily my favorite books so far in the 40k universe, Argal and Khan are such great characters and the human companions they have in both books were excellent, funny how I enjoy reading about traitor legions fall more than the loyalist.... Edit: I disagree with your stance on "Damnation of Pythos" I genuinely found their struggle of these shattered legions without their Primarch interesting and the ending of the novel just sadding because they wouldn't be remembered for their sacrifice compelling.
First, I greatly appreciate this video. I made it through all of the horus heresy books and enjoyed your opinions on each one. I enjoy the viewpoint of Primarchs and Astartes more than I enjoy the human perspective. The reason for this is that the inclinations and mannerisms of the primarchs greatly impact the universe and the plot line, where as a human's perspective contributes very little to the over all plot of the story. The best books in my opinion, have some human perspective to show the magnitude of the astartes and primarchs but focus on thicker plot lines or explain the ideology that make each legion different. This lead to my opinions on books sometimes wildly differing from your rankings, but I found that you provided a good recap of the books. I will say that to any one reading through the books, though some books are far better than others each book helps to explain the universe during this time and is worth a read.
I think the same way as you do. Do you think there is another overview (video or otherwise) that gives a similar rating or recap of the HH books so I can pick and choose which ones I wanna read and not burn out?
I agree I wanted to read the heresy series to find out about the primarks and their legions not about the average person. It is nice to get a point of view of what the Galaxy was like for the average Joe or for remembrance sir but I think the Horus heresy novels went a long way to establishing space Marines as having human like qualities. These are space Marines before all the ritualistic pseudo occultism that drapes over them like a fog in regular 40K and it's nice to see them with goals and aspirations more than just dying for the emperor and the imperium.
I just started reading it today. Absolutely hooked right from the beginning with the Siege of Terra fakeout. 3/4ths of the way in and I’m kicking myself for not giving the books a try earlier
Out of all the things that are happening in the Warhammer universe, I'm never gonna believe that there is a legion of 3 meter tall dudes in power armor that are dedicated to stealth and sabotage.
Flight of the Eisenstein is one of only two books that I ever threw across the room when I finished reading it. If I needed to start a fire and all I had was my Horus Heresy novel collection for tinder, I would start with Flight of the Eisenstein and not even feel bad.
@@ReverendMeat51 My dad used to always say when I was growing up: "Frustration is a function of expectation." That's really it in a nutshell without writing a 2k word review, but I just didn't find the writing quality good and the plot meandered all over the place. Also, I felt like it really squandered an opportunity to tell a horror story about being lost in the warp. Basically, I don't like James Swallow's writing. I've given him several chances (Blood Angel Omnibus) and now I just skip his novels entirely.
I really wish a more competent writer would take up the Salamanders. While Vulkan being a perpetual allows him to avoid the "Black guy dies first" trope, knowing that he'll always survive robs him of agency. I think the Horus Heresy series suffers from poor forethought. I would like GW to take another crack at the saga with a richer pool of writers and a more even distribution of attention towards all the elements within, sometime in the future.
Interesting view to be honest, 'cause I felt it just offered a shift in the threats he has to overcome. While his mortality might not be in danger, there are other fates that could befall someone who can't die - or ways to work that immortality into his suffering. It opened, rather than closed, a whole new realm of possibility to him, and to have him be at the mercy of a master sadist/torturer, was the only 'right' route to go with the most humane and empathic of the primarchs - loved seeing how he (d)evolved.
You’ve easily become my favourite Warhammer YT Channel! I’ve been in and out of the hobby for the last 20 years and just spent the last 2 reading the entire HH My biggest takeaways from the series are how the Ultramarines aren’t totally boring and how the Alpha Legion is easily the most interesting and needs fleshing out so much more!
As a Thousand Sons fan boy I found Scars and Path of Heaven to be outstanding. They're great in their own right but as a bonus add depth to the Thousand Sons arc.
You deserve WAY more subs than you have. Clearly explained stuff even a shallow toe-dipper like me can understand, enough humour to keep the videos interesting without letting it overshadow the content, and a really professional and clean style. I score you 5 Emperor Titans.
This video is what made me finally give the Horus Heresy series a try, already finished with false gods and so excited to read/listen to the rest of the series!
I cannot recommend the audio book versions of these enough. The narrator does an amazing job and as such I love Battle for the Abyss. I love how the different space marines interact with each other and how Gareth Armstrong brings them to life. Also Audible has them for a much cheaper price than BL.
Yeah I kind of agree, Gareth makes the book tolerable for me especially compared to trying to reread the book and end up hating myself every step of the way.
Ditto. These books can sometimes be quite the slog to get through, what with every fight being narrated in excruciating detail, but it works fantastically well in audiobook format! I was not a fan of Mechanicum until I listened to it, after which it jumped up to being one of my faves.
I really liked Battle for the Abyss as well. I also agree with the points Arbitor Ian made about it in this video, yet everyone and their mother calling it the worst book in the series is way too harsh IMHO.
This list was sooo helpful! I started listening to the audiobooks in order and realised there were some huge turkeys out there when I got to Battle for the Abyss - it almost out me off from continuing at all and really put me off any more Ultramarines content. These reviews helped me to focus on the standout novels and I haven’t been disappointed with any of the 4 or 5 star books I’ve listened to since.
If it’s any consolation when I listened to the audiobook of battle of the abyss it made me feel like less of a masochist than when I tried to reread the book. Either way I’ve only ever gotten through that book in it’s entirety the first time (technically I did listen to the entire audiobook but I fell asleep during the second half and didn’t bother to re-listen). I’m glad you decided to start in order because if I had started out on awful book like abyss then I probably would’ve given up on the entire HH series.
Know No Fear was my favourite overall - actually read that one three times. Also anything with the Custodes in was good... wish there was more about them.
I actually enjoyed battle for the abyss. I think it’s very interesting to follow characters different legions that are not sure what side they are supposed to be on and so make up there own minds . World eaters and ultramarines on a team is quite fun.
Loved the rating system. It was a great reference to the subject matter. Very well done and humorous. Also thanks for the warnings about the actual content and its worthiness to spend the time to read it.
I've just got to Wolfsbane, so almost there! I agree with most of what Ian says, but on Wolfsbane in particular I love it. It is so well written, almost nothing happens for the first half apart from world building and conversations, no bolter porn, just character development, much from the PoV of Russ. I agree with Ian that primarch PoV are normally poor, but this depiction of Russ (and the hypocrisy over psykers) is exceptional. Also love the character arc of future 40k Mary Sue Belisarius Cawl, his conversations with his acolyte buddy on the nature of the omnissiah and what it means to be human are superb bits of writing and exactly the world building I like.
In the past I had seen a lot of people give these books negative reviews because the Primarchs or Emp is not in certain book very much. People also complained about the human point-of-view characters which you seem to think help the story. You're the first person that says a point-of-view from the Primarchs is not a good thing all the time and I agree.
@@ReverendMeat51 killed his personal remembrancer? As I recall he had almost every remembrancer on the spirit of vengeance killed! One of the most vivid moments for me just imagining the fucking no Russian mission from mw2 but with astartes. I also loved the remembrancers in fulgrim, the story between Ostian and Serena was one of my favorites. And when Kynska decided to write some tunes that were so bangin that it summoned daemonettes into the material realm was an amazingly written scene.
It really depends what you are looking for - if its world building then the humans are quite important since they give you a very different perspective on the setting. If you are interested in the Heresy itself - overly simplified if you care more about the big picture historic events - then the humans are mostly inconsequential and you are here for the primarchs and the Emperor as their actions shape the legions and thus the history and setting of 40k. Personally I've only read a couple of books to understand better the Dark Angels I play and a couple of other legions. 30k or 40k are neither my favorite settings when it comes to world building and thus I didn't really care for the humans. But I do agree that from a literary point of view basing the stories around space marines and primarchs is really not working because in theory they should be barely human and thus less relatable - yet they all show very human flaws and mistakes and somehow it doesn't gell 100%.
This is really useful. Glad you enjoyed Prospero Burns too. I went into that one indifferent to the Vlke, but I was blown away by Abnett's world building around them. He made them into such a fascinating legion. Nice touch with the wet leopards too ;)
Amused me the comment about “it’s a bit late to be introducing legions” somewhere in the 20’s, but given there are 18 legions to introduce, plus continuing story etc. it’s not surprising!
And if the Astartes are in it, the less about the primarchs the better. I’m up to about book 20 and find myself skipping the chapters where primarchs are talking to each other…
I'm currently reading Titandeath, and I think ever since around book 40, it's solely been a sunk cost thing for me. "I've read 40 books, what's another 10-15"...Boy howdy did I assess that one wrong. I will say, as a Salamanders fan, I do feel like you did my boys a bit dirty in the video, but at the end of the day, I can't begrudge an opposing opinion to my own.
I’ve been reading the Horus Heresy series by publication date since last summer (with large breaks during the school semesters) and I’ve only just finished Know no Fear and started the Primarch novellas. Love that you’ve reviewed them all.
I love what you've been doing with the channel. Good work. I agree with everything you said about the HH books, except Galaxy In Flames. I loved that book so much. As a pay-off for the first two books, and completing the turning of the Luna Wolves, it was everything I wanted. Pathos, betrayal, the mournival facing off, Saul Tarvitz doing everything he could, a proper end for Loken (or what should have been the end), and Angron unleashed on his own legion. I just couldn't have asked for a better conclusion to the initial story. I think it's a five star book.
I just started to read these from a place of only vaguely understanding the Horus heresy from the codexs and this is just a top guide. Just reading the synopsis of each book, the words collection and anthology put me right off and seeing how many writers were involved, I had no idea how to judge. Thanks for this great video!
These are the books given 4 or more stars on. I am making this list for myself and anyone else who can't sit through them all, but want to read a few. (Sorry If I missed some, I was skimming) Horus rising, Fulgrim, Legion, Mechanicum, Tales of Heresy, A thousands sons, The first Heretic, Prospero burns, The outcast died, Know no fear, Shadows of treachery, Betrayer, Scars, Path of heaven, Praetorian of Dawn, Master of mankind, Tallarn, Titandeath. My favorites of these are Fulgrim, Betrayer, Scars and Mechanicum.
Have to agree with the first 5 being really good but from there you can basically pick and choose what to read about but also completely agree that Legion is hands down the best book in the series and its not even a competition, nothing comes close at all, my ones I'm looking to get next are A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns to read that arc, to me personally I love Garro and co and the whole Knights Errant/birth of the Grey Knights arc so that stands out to me, besides that I'm a Dark Angel fanboy at heart so I'll take anything I can get with them, might get ones to do with the Iron Warriors too especially post-Heresy cause that's when Perturabo becomes a proper badass, besides that there's not a ton of Legions I find enjoyable, for the loyalists I would have to probably say the Blood Angels though I do admittedly like the Raven Guard's story too, for the traitors you gotta love Magnus at least, Kurze I guess is cool in his own way, the others are kinda bland and boring Edit: its March 2022 and I've since read The First Heretic which was fantastic, 5 stars easily, Know No Fear again 5 stars, currently on Betrayer and really loving it, I have Scars but I do kinda wanna read Unremembered Empire cause it does intrigue me how that came about, plus my boi The Lion and also the Angel himself, Sanguinius are in it so I wanna see how they interact with each other but after Scars its gonna be Vengeful Spirit
Legion would have been better if the first thirty or so pages were more readable. You're immediately thrown into the book with a one-sided interrogation (from the future), then thrown into the desert with guardsmen wielding wildly similar and unpronounceable names/ranks, and then of course you come face to face with the enigma of the Legion itself.
I'm still astounded that the one Horus Heresy book I've read, that I chose on a whim from a used bookstore, happened to be _Legion,_ one of the better ones. I really lucked out on that one. I almost bought Battle of the Abyss at the same time. Glad I didn't.
I bought both at the same time to read on the way to and during my trip to Spain with friends and I couldn't put Legion down once I started, I loved it so much! Battle for the Abyss was so boring though, I've tried it twice and can't get more than halfway through cause it's that boring
@@thatlonewolfguy2878 yeah I almost bought abyss as my first HH book but I decided to read them in the release order instead. One of the happiest decisions of my life. And I’m glad I read Horus rising, false gods, and galaxy in flames first. I enjoyed them so much that I’d probably consider them some of my favorite 40k books let alone HH books.
Thank you so much for these recommendations! I just wanted to tell you that your Warhammer 40K videos have inspired many Latinamerican fans to make their own. I hope you can invite folks like 3HuntLeo to your podcast, he and his crew know English so there should be no issues about the language barrier. Thank you again for everything you do for the community, greetings from a Mexican fan!
Seriously, thank you so much for this. This is a series that has always intrigued me, but... sweet crap, thems a lot of books. Knowing which ones can be skipped and which ones are great make the whole thing a lot more approachable.
Two things my favourite books in the series have in common. Dan Abnett and Graham McNeil. They both write believable characters and well thought out plots. And I'd be surprised if Abnett hasn't seen sevice. Guy writes a firefight like he's actually been under fire. I need to get back to these books but I need to replace the first 20 books and it's a daunting prospect.
I personally loved the Salamanders focused novels but to each their own. Also I LOVED Titandeath, but I'm a member of the Questoris Familia so I suppose I am a mark for it.
I loved Crimson King the background it gave to the depths of Magnus shattering and the effect on his psyche was incredibly well done to me and provided alot of the answers to the questions of why he wasnt a loyalist.
@@LimerickJim the problem with the HH Vulkan build up is that they kind of fckd that in the War of the Beast - imo they should've left Vulkan alone, instead of dragging him in to the whole thing with the orks.
I am very thankful that i picked up the first primarch series book before i plowed into the HH, as i believe it gave me a bit of perspective. Since then i have alternated between both series and have really enjoyed the first 10 books of each. High lights legion,fulgrim and prospero burns. It is a valid point about the story perspectives, however we don't want a homogenised, comic book series of 'events'. It is a truly epic tale. I highly recommend reading the 1st 5 as it lays the scene very well.
I really find it interesting that you prefer the POV to be from normal human characters as I figured the pull of 30k was to see the primarchs in action and to help flesh them out as characters. Though I do recall many of my favourite parts of these novels being the ones that included normal humans interacting with the astartes or primarchs. I'd say some of my favourites books would be Betrayer, Angel Exterminatus and the first 3 (since they really are one narrative split into three books)
can't even describe the bravery to do this series DESPITE liking Descent of Angels, incredible scenes (thanks for this, I've been wanting to read 'the good ones' for a while after falling apart half-way through Mechanicum (with Descent and Abyss half-read) a few times)
As someone who has read through every single book in this series so far, I agree with many of your points. One of my personal favourites is Prince of Crows by Aaron Demski-Bowden, such an amazing Night Lords novella!
Just found this video - and it’s excellent, thanks for making it! I don’t always agree, but 100% on the human perspectives making the stories so much better. And all those anthologies reprinting stories sold separately (ugh).
@@charlesbratt2504 thanks, I am! liked Xenos fine, but Malleus was on another level of enjoyment for me. need to wait till Penitent comes out in my language, but in the meantime Pariah is definitely on the list!:)
This review has made me feel fairly satisfied with calling it quits after reading the first four books. I'm sure there's more out there, but I was generally frustrated by the books' ability to write allegedly superhuman beings like the primarchs in a way that felt believable, or to legitimize the philosophy of the Great Crusade (there's a speech early on in Horus Rising that's written like it's meant to wow everyone, but it's so bottom-of-the-barrel rhetoric it soured some of the human characters for me too. "The Imperial Truth is true because the Emperor says it's true!" Wow, brilliant.) The most significant frustrations had to do with how they decided to externalize the causes of Horus's fall, making it a matter of demonic daggers and cursed wounds and spirit visions and all kinds of pulpy bullshit rather than for once trying to write a big boy story where it's Horus' own psychology that proves his downfall. (I generally don't expect too complex characterization from 40k books, but I was hoping they'd go for it in what felt like a prestige series, but this was before the Horus Heresy turned into a sub-franchise juggernaut it has become). I have been told repeatedly that later books rectify this, and add more complexity and inner motivation, but then they also add stuff I definitely dislike like the plot-device Cabals (prophecies are almost always cheap "character motivation-in-a-can" tools) and they turn intentionally-nobodies like Ollanius into immortals and make the cause of the tyranids some sidequest-astronomican, or retcon the Council of Nicea into the Emperor just being a massive idiot, or retcon the Inquisition origin into something a lot less interesting and more sunday morning cartoon-like, etc. etc. Also it seems like there's an ABSURD amount of bloat here. It was fun pallying around with the Mournival, and I think the treachery at the end was heartbreaking. I am content.
Yeah, I think your criticisms are valid. And I don't think they really fix the "Horus is not a character" problem at all. I'd say however there are a few decent books worth reading outside of the first 4 (and I think Flight of the Eisenstein is pretty terrible, and Graham MacNeill's two books are pretty forgettable and bad too). I think First Heretic, Know No Fear and Betrayer are pretty good as a sort of self contained trilogy about the Word Bearers, Ultramarines and latterly World Eaters. Especially First Heretic is a pretty good read that you can take as a standalone pretty happily. Most of the rest of the series is schlock and not even particularly good schlock. Chris Wraight's White Scars novels are genuinely pretty good, ADB and Dan Abnett tend to do alright no matter what, but apart from that it's not worth the time. I think it's a real shame that they crapped out on Horus's fall so badly. The series is 54 books long and he's the title character, and he's only actually a character for one book.
I read Legion after watching this video and I agree, it's one of the best Warhammer books I have ever read. I just wish the human characters appeared in other books.
New to the whole 40k, and really warhammer in general, IP so i started with Eisenhorns books a few months ago and now im about ten books into the heresy. Enjoying it so far and im not as lost as i worried i might be although i do loathe the idea of a four dozen plus books series as much as im excited to listen to them all in order.
Know No Fear, and Fear To Tread are my two top rated Horus Heresy novels. Also, got to say, you seem to dislike the focus on the Astartes and Primarchs. But it’s the Horus Heresy. That’s a period of Warhammer all about Space marines and their Primarchs. Also also :) Mortis was pretty good.
Fulgrim is a masterpiece. The way the fall to chaos was depicted in both Astartes and civilians was sublime. The way the mood changes throughout the book was so well handled through characters and settings, like the sculptor and the bar. I loved it
My only problem with fulgrim was the plot armor the emperors children got against the eldar. But then again they’re space marines and space marines have more plot armor than actual super heroes so I guess I shouldnt be too surprised
Legion is hands down my favourite so far, but I'm only 20 or so in. The TS books were stella too. I FORCED myself to read batle for the Abyss on a trip to and from London. Did you know how BIG that spaceship is? The Cannons are HUGE and the doors VAST. The Engines are ENOURMOUS!! Its big, we get it. The final battle for some reason reminded me of the Milky Way advert where the Red car and blue car had a race. I genuinely didnt give a shit who won.
I personally found the primarchs and their perspective the most captivating part of the series but I do agree with humans alsp being an important factor
This is the EXACT video I needed! I read the first 7 or so HH novels and then kinda lost interest because they started feeling like filler. I would Pick up a book here or there like Master of Mankind or Mechanicus if I heard great things but I basically just got overwhelmed by the number of books. This video gave me a nice list of books for me to dive back into and check out thanks so much!
First 5 HH books are a great introduction. You get introduced to some of the bigger characters, the settings and the fall of the Emperor's children. But I'm a bit biased to everything that has any Night Lords or Fabius Bile in it.
Making my way through the series on audiobook now, started last July and am now on Burden of Loyalty. By and large of liked something from every book, but when the Iron Hands turn up I just can't help but wish they were wiped out. Sorry Ferrus lovers.
@@natty4316 I've been using Audible and hunting through their sales and discounts to try get the whole series. Don't think I've paid full price for any of them.
The very first WH40K book I read was Know No Fear and I am supremely thankful for that. It was a relatively simple book that not only grabbed my attention but made me genuinely feel for the humans of this universe. Making my way through the Horus Heresy (not necessarily in release order) and so far the only books that got me to feel extremely emotional was Galaxy in Flames (when Horus made his announcement), The First Heretic (when Argel apologized) and A Thousand Sons (when Magnus confessed to his sons).
Great vids. Please do the Ian Watson trilogy and short stories. It would be amazing to see the comments section explode in division! And to get your take on them, of course 😊
great video, thank you. After reading Know No Fear I finally realized what a joke was that Battle For the Abyss book. Word Bearers lost their biggest ship and core part of their attack plan but it was not even mentioned in Know No Fear....
I created this list with the rating in the video as I cant remember a thing going through it so fast :). So these are all the books with their rating:
Books with an (A) are Anthology Books.
In addition to the stars rating, books with 👍 received extra praise, those with 🤢 got a beating.
1. Horus Rising - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4.5* 👍
2. False Gods - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
3. Galaxy in Flames - ⭐⭐⭐ *3* (but essential)
4. The Flight of the Eisenstein -⭐⭐⭐ *3.5*
5. Fulgrim - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4*
6. Descent of Angels - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
7. Legion - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5* 👍
8. Battle for the Abyss - ⭐ *1* 🤢
9. Mechanicum - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4*
10. Tales of Heresy (A) - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4*
11. Fallen Angels - ⭐⭐ *2*
12. A Thousand Sons - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 👍
13. Nemesis - ⭐⭐ *2*
14. The First Heretic - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4*
15. Prospero Burns - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5* 👍
16. Age of Darkness (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
17. The Outcast Dead - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4*
18. Deliverance Lost - ⭐ *1*
19. Know No Fear - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5* 👍
20. The Primarchs (A) - ⭐ *1* 🤢
21. Fear to Tread - ⭐⭐ *2*
22. Shadows of Treachery (A) - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 👍
23. Angel Exterminatus - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
24. Betrayer - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5*
25. Mark of Calth (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
26. Vulkan Lives - ⭐ *1* (for all Salamander Novels, but in this List all have 1 Star)
27. The Unremembered Empire - ⭐⭐ *2*
28. Scars - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5* 👍
29. Vengeful Spirit - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
30. The Damnation of Pythos - ⭐ *1* 🤢
31. Legacies of Betrayal (A) - ⭐⭐ *2*
32. Deathfire - ⭐ *1*
33. War Without End (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
34. Pharos - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
35. Eye of Terra (A) - ⭐⭐ *2*
36. The Path of Heaven - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4*
37. The Silent War (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
38. Angels of Caliban - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
39. Praetorian of Dorn - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4* 👍
40. Corax (A) - ⭐⭐ *2*
41. The Master of Mankind - ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ *5* 👍
42. Garro - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
43. Shattered Legions (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
44. The Crimson King - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
45. Tallarn (A) - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4.5* 👍
46. Ruinstorm - ⭐⭐ *2*
47. Old Earth - ⭐ *1*
48. Burden of Loyalty (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
49. Wolfsbane - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
50. Born of Flame - ⭐ *1*
51. Slaves to Darkness - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
52. Herald of the Siege (A) - ⭐⭐⭐ *3*
53. Titandeath - ⭐⭐⭐⭐ *4*
54. The Buried Dagger - ⭐⭐⭐ *3.5*
This needs to be pinned
Wow, thanks! Pinned!
Praise to your work brother
I've decided to do some basic math to get an average rating for the whole saga (also, in my calculations I added 0.5 to book rating for extra praise and subtracted 0.5 for beating). The number I got in the end is 3.1 (rounded up). Not a very pretty number, but that's just my judgement. Basically, judging by the video and the ratings presented there, about 37% of the saga is worth any attention (ratings from 3.5 to 5.5 (also just my opinion)) with the biggest problem presented in the video is that despite the fact that saga has numerous well written stories, it's also heavily diluted with very substandard writing. This is the worst thing that can happen to any series which is supposed to be epic, but is risking to turn up to be just "meh" (again, just my opinion).
Great, quick reference list
many thanks
So anything by Dan abnett is the best of black library. Got it .
Chris Wright and Aaron DB are top tier aswell. An probably the best book from black library is by guy Helen (devastation of Baal).
I'm not keen on Gaunt's Ghosts. Sure I'm basing it on the first two books only, but they felt... hmm just kinda there? Obviously his Eisenhorn stuff is great, but for book Commissars make mine a Cain.
@@stryke-jn3kv The first two Gaunt's Ghosts were practically all short stories stitched together. But yeah, it aims to be generic war stories and doesn't really rise above that most of the time. Though some like Necropolis and Only in Death are pretty decent, they also happen to both be siege novels and almost more about the settings than anything else.
And there's some really interesting stuff, like the parts in Anarch where Abnett talks a little bit about the culture of the Sanguinary Worlds and the border marches of the Imperium. Though the rest of that book is a hot mess.
Abnett is only at his best when he poking around at big idea stuff; his interpersonal stuff, which is a majority of the Gaunt's Ghosts books, is really lackluster.
@@stryke-jn3kv comparing Cain and Gaunt because they are both Commissars is like comparing Apples and Oranges as they are both fruits? (although after listening to the whole Horus Heresy and catching up on Eisenhorn and Bequin, Cain was a welcome relief).
@@stryke-jn3kv The Gaunt's Ghost books get better starting with the third.
My problem with False Gods will always be Horus himself. Dan Abnett was able to paint him as such a nuanced, interesting, almost ethereal character in Rising, but then, in False Gods, he's little more than the stereotypical, brutish (Chaos) Space Marine. Very little nuance made it from the first novel into the second, and I've always seen that as a tragically huge loss of potential.
well he was tainted with chaos so, he won't be sane very long
YES! Completely agree. Horus is the title character for the series but he ceases to be a character from the moment he's stabbed with the stupid magic knife. It would have been so much better if he'd been motivated by his real doubts and fears about the Imperium and only started using Chaos as a tool to achieve his ends.
“Mustache twirling evil bad guy” is how I always describe Horus in that book, because he really did become a bad caricature at that point.
@@johnnybigbones4955 This.
I'm reading through False Gods now and I've noticed the same thing. I understand that the stress of being Warmaster is getting to him and Erebus has been whispering sweet nothings into his ear but everything that made Horus interesting in Rising is nowhere to be found in False Gods
"Know no Fear" for me. The detail depiction of the destruction of Calth is breathtaking.
Yeah the build up Is almost unreadable, he cranks the tension up so high.
Yes, one of the best in the series. How he started each chapter with the date/time mark was genius in following events as they unfolded.
Both sides competent too which was great. It's usually clever traitors with moronic loyalists. Nice to see some clever play from the loyalists aswell for a change. 5/5 great book.
Know no fear was amazing, its between that and the first heretic for me.
And then it started raining main battle tanks.
breathtakingly boring
For anyone curious the timeline error in The Outcast Dead has to do with Magnus the Red and his trying to warn Terra of the heresy. Basically somehow his message isn’t received until after the drop site massacre which is like Magnus saying Horus is a traitor and everyone is like yeah dude we know…
To expand on this a little, Leman Russ got tricked into destroying Prospero by Horus before he was revealed as the traitor. Which doesn’t make any sense since Magnus’ warning happens after Horus is revealed as the traitor.
They explained/retconned it later by saying that the effects of Magnus’ intrusion were contained for a while by esoteric machinery or some such
Horus rising is what got me into the 40k universe.... it was great.
I remember reading parts of the Horus Rising in Polish (my mother language) and it was horrible. Only when I got an English version I was hooked up.
Captain Loken was the GOAT
My entire experience with W40k is owning a small box of models and playing Dawn of war 1 when I was stuck in hospital as a young teen.
I absolutely love your channel mate you have hooked me into a universe I knew nothing about.
Same, I shared a box set back in the 90’s with my bro and cousin, and although we had fun with it, we soon moved on.
During lockdown I decided I’d build my young son an army for when he’s a bit older, and with TH-cam channels like this, the countless books and much better looking miniatures I’ve become immensely hooked.
My son will now be sharing the armies I’ve built when he’s a bit older with his dad, but on the plus side, he’s going to have a hell of a book collection to go with it!
The whole flight of the Campanille was breathtaking and the subsequent destruction of the anchorpoint and spacestation is brilliantly written.
Betrayer with Jonathan Keeble narrating is number 1 for me. It brings so much character to a faction that could easily be considered one of the most 'tropey'.
Oh yeah. Jonathan Keeble is brilliant. Galaxy in Flames is not the greatest book and I think the three star rating, given in this video, is fair. However, his narration of Isstvan 3 events is phenomenal. It's so gripping. His tempo and world flow was next level.
@@borisdorofeev5602 its amazing. As of writing this the siege of terra is over. I’ve never read one book but listened and re listened to about 35 to 40 of the series and JK is unbelievably good. Betrayer, Scars and Master of Mankind being the best in my opinion.
I'm currently listening to it such a good book
I enjoyed Nemesis! The moment when Valdor points his finger at the bandits, after he crashes, and then pretends to shoot is one of the funniest moments I can remember in this series.
Lol that is the bit I remember the most from it to be fair
Make sure you check out Gunsight (James Swallow) for the follow up on Eristede Kell. A great perspective on how terrifying & inescapable Horus and the corruption of his domain can be.
I LOVE The Flight of the Eisenstein!
Same, that and JS's short in Tales of Heresy were great
Agreed, so different to other novels and after the grim disasters of the first 3 books you feel the desperate race and thin ray of hope.
@@holtjamie77 Exactly! Destiny of few is way more intense than millions.
Just been reading Praetorian of Dorn. You neglect to mention that the author manages to somehow got an Ork Waaagh into the Horus Heresy. Although to be fair I skipped that section because I didn’t really care about the Imperial fists characters backstory…
I really love Flight of the Eisenstein and Master of Mankind. I think the Custodes are some of the most interesting characters in the lore. I love A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns. The dichotomy between The Thousand Sons and Space Wolves is awesome.
There are no wolves on Fenris.
one that really suprised me was the thousand sons. i was legit fckin sad at the end of this book. like really. didnt expect this from a warhammer novel. magnus did nothing wrong
I went into thousands sons finding them a little boring but finished it genuinely thinking about starting collecting them or at least getting Magus on my shelf.
They were binding daemons to themselves, putting everyone off with their arrogance, unwilling to listen to any viewpoint that wasn't their own, and had a completely misguided view of the Warp and knowledge that led them to dabble in horribly dangerous stuff.
Hell, Magnus's idiotic "let's ignore my allies' and critics' concerns and just call everyone who doesn't agree with me an ignorant bigot" speech is the main reason why psykers were banned at Nikaea! The White Scars note in another novel (I forget which one) that all they needed to win at the council was for Magnus to keep his damn mouth shut!
Also, Magnus broke the Webway. Which he didn't *need* to do, and he should've been more wary about since he knew that it was very important to the Emperor's plans even if he didn't have all the details. But he did it anyway because his ego wouldn't let him send word of Horus's treachery via anything but a giant Warp ritual.
I love the Thousand Sons, but this whole "Magnus did nothing wrong" thing is complete groxshit. He wasn't cruel or callous on the scale of many other Primarchs, but he was still a total scrub who thought he was way stronger, smarter, and wiser than he really was and fucked up
Magnus did everything wrong accidentally. Hell he could have saved Prospero if he didn’t cut off all communications
@@1Korlash Show me on the doll where Magnus hurt you. Nothing he did was out of malice, he tried his best to do the right thing, and did the only thing he could to save his Legion. His critics at Nikaea were traitor scum and loyalist hypocrites and were in actual fact ignorant bigots.
@@1Korlash 100%. Magnus dug his own grave out of arrogance and spite. Whether he did everything wrong “accidentally” or “with good intentions” is moot. He did them because he believed he knew better and it all subsequently blew up in his face.
it should be noted though that Deliverance Lost has the best ”ship enters the warp” scene in 40k
Descent of angels is one of my favourites, I really like the Caliban story before imperial contact.
Me too as well as the order of knights that will encompass the Legion!
Glad someone appreciates Legion as much as me. Dan just writes the average soldier so well.
But the book was supposed to be about the alpha legion and it just wasn't they were side characters in their own book at best instead we learned about the 5-2 Chiliad and their bizarre mommy complex. I'm not saying that they were written badly and it does deserve some credit because at the time it wasn't widely known that alfarious and omigon were two separate people so this was kind of a big reveal.
@@themediocretellamechress9323 I’m not sure the book was “supposed” to be about Alpha Legion, yet it did feature them heavily and I kind of enjoyed what was there. I bet they are hard to write without ruining the mystery.
Abnett beign the writter behind the Darktide videogame, puts a smile on my face.
I think "Legion" is one of the best books ever published by the Black Library :P
18:32 damn, no love for the salamanders . As a big salamander fan the few books that focus on them it's always amazing to read.
The First Heretic and the Betrayer are easily my favorite books so far in the 40k universe, Argal and Khan are such great characters and the human companions they have in both books were excellent, funny how I enjoy reading about traitor legions fall more than the loyalist....
Edit: I disagree with your stance on "Damnation of Pythos" I genuinely found their struggle of these shattered legions without their Primarch interesting and the ending of the novel just sadding because they wouldn't be remembered for their sacrifice compelling.
First, I greatly appreciate this video. I made it through all of the horus heresy books and enjoyed your opinions on each one. I enjoy the viewpoint of Primarchs and Astartes more than I enjoy the human perspective. The reason for this is that the inclinations and mannerisms of the primarchs greatly impact the universe and the plot line, where as a human's perspective contributes very little to the over all plot of the story. The best books in my opinion, have some human perspective to show the magnitude of the astartes and primarchs but focus on thicker plot lines or explain the ideology that make each legion different. This lead to my opinions on books sometimes wildly differing from your rankings, but I found that you provided a good recap of the books. I will say that to any one reading through the books, though some books are far better than others each book helps to explain the universe during this time and is worth a read.
I think the same way as you do. Do you think there is another overview (video or otherwise) that gives a similar rating or recap of the HH books so I can pick and choose which ones I wanna read and not burn out?
I agree I wanted to read the heresy series to find out about the primarks and their legions not about the average person. It is nice to get a point of view of what the Galaxy was like for the average Joe or for remembrance sir but I think the Horus heresy novels went a long way to establishing space Marines as having human like qualities. These are space Marines before all the ritualistic pseudo occultism that drapes over them like a fog in regular 40K and it's nice to see them with goals and aspirations more than just dying for the emperor and the imperium.
Horus Rising will always be my favorite as it got me into the universe. I just want to read it for the first time again.
I just started reading it today. Absolutely hooked right from the beginning with the Siege of Terra fakeout. 3/4ths of the way in and I’m kicking myself for not giving the books a try earlier
Out of all the things that are happening in the Warhammer universe, I'm never gonna believe that there is a legion of 3 meter tall dudes in power armor that are dedicated to stealth and sabotage.
You’re right, there isn’t a legion of 3 meter tall dudes in power armor that are dedicated to stealth and sabotage, there are three.
Alphas use human agents a lot
The Flight of the Eisenstein is a christian novel with some spaceships in it
And Garro is a beast
Flight of the Eisenstein is one of only two books that I ever threw across the room when I finished reading it. If I needed to start a fire and all I had was my Horus Heresy novel collection for tinder, I would start with Flight of the Eisenstein and not even feel bad.
@@H0urg1ass why? I loved it
@@ReverendMeat51 My dad used to always say when I was growing up: "Frustration is a function of expectation." That's really it in a nutshell without writing a 2k word review, but I just didn't find the writing quality good and the plot meandered all over the place. Also, I felt like it really squandered an opportunity to tell a horror story about being lost in the warp.
Basically, I don't like James Swallow's writing. I've given him several chances (Blood Angel Omnibus) and now I just skip his novels entirely.
@@H0urg1ass I could not get through that book and immediately just started skipping around immediately after.
I really wish a more competent writer would take up the Salamanders. While Vulkan being a perpetual allows him to avoid the "Black guy dies first" trope, knowing that he'll always survive robs him of agency. I think the Horus Heresy series suffers from poor forethought. I would like GW to take another crack at the saga with a richer pool of writers and a more even distribution of attention towards all the elements within, sometime in the future.
Interesting view to be honest, 'cause I felt it just offered a shift in the threats he has to overcome. While his mortality might not be in danger, there are other fates that could befall someone who can't die - or ways to work that immortality into his suffering.
It opened, rather than closed, a whole new realm of possibility to him, and to have him be at the mercy of a master sadist/torturer, was the only 'right' route to go with the most humane and empathic of the primarchs - loved seeing how he (d)evolved.
You’ve easily become my favourite Warhammer YT Channel!
I’ve been in and out of the hobby for the last 20 years and just spent the last 2 reading the entire HH
My biggest takeaways from the series are how the Ultramarines aren’t totally boring and how the Alpha Legion is easily the most interesting and needs fleshing out so much more!
As a Thousand Sons fan boy I found Scars and Path of Heaven to be outstanding. They're great in their own right but as a bonus add depth to the Thousand Sons arc.
VERY useful video! Thank you! (4 and a half galactic civil wars)
Emotionally wise - The Betrayer, Flight of the Eisenstein and Thousand sons. Overall best book - Know No Fear.
You deserve WAY more subs than you have. Clearly explained stuff even a shallow toe-dipper like me can understand, enough humour to keep the videos interesting without letting it overshadow the content, and a really professional and clean style. I score you 5 Emperor Titans.
This video is what made me finally give the Horus Heresy series a try, already finished with false gods and so excited to read/listen to the rest of the series!
I cannot recommend the audio book versions of these enough. The narrator does an amazing job and as such I love Battle for the Abyss. I love how the different space marines interact with each other and how Gareth Armstrong brings them to life. Also Audible has them for a much cheaper price than BL.
Yeah I kind of agree, Gareth makes the book tolerable for me especially compared to trying to reread the book and end up hating myself every step of the way.
Ditto. These books can sometimes be quite the slog to get through, what with every fight being narrated in excruciating detail, but it works fantastically well in audiobook format! I was not a fan of Mechanicum until I listened to it, after which it jumped up to being one of my faves.
I really liked Battle for the Abyss as well. I also agree with the points Arbitor Ian made about it in this video, yet everyone and their mother calling it the worst book in the series is way too harsh IMHO.
The narrator does such a great job, but I can’t stand the way he voices Mechanicum characters.
This list was sooo helpful! I started listening to the audiobooks in order and realised there were some huge turkeys out there when I got to Battle for the Abyss - it almost out me off from continuing at all and really put me off any more Ultramarines content. These reviews helped me to focus on the standout novels and I haven’t been disappointed with any of the 4 or 5 star books I’ve listened to since.
If it’s any consolation when I listened to the audiobook of battle of the abyss it made me feel like less of a masochist than when I tried to reread the book. Either way I’ve only ever gotten through that book in it’s entirety the first time (technically I did listen to the entire audiobook but I fell asleep during the second half and didn’t bother to re-listen). I’m glad you decided to start in order because if I had started out on awful book like abyss then I probably would’ve given up on the entire HH series.
“Betrayer” turned me from a loyalist to a traitor. Just don’t tell the Inquisition.
Same. I’m naming my first born son “Argel Tal”
@@regularrory4692 that's tooo on the nose, methinks.
@@blackjack2526 if he comes out with red hair I’ll name him Erebus and be super mean to him. Lol that should balance it out a little ;)
DON’T TELL THE INQUISITION WHAT?!
@@regularrory4692 Lotarra would legit be a cool name for a girl.
Know No Fear was my favourite overall - actually read that one three times. Also anything with the Custodes in was good... wish there was more about them.
I actually enjoyed battle for the abyss. I think it’s very interesting to follow characters different legions that are not sure what side they are supposed to be on and so make up there own minds .
World eaters and ultramarines on a team is quite fun.
It's much better than the Descent of Angels
Loved the rating system. It was a great reference to the subject matter. Very well done and humorous. Also thanks for the warnings about the actual content and its worthiness to spend the time to read it.
I've just got to Wolfsbane, so almost there! I agree with most of what Ian says, but on Wolfsbane in particular I love it. It is so well written, almost nothing happens for the first half apart from world building and conversations, no bolter porn, just character development, much from the PoV of Russ. I agree with Ian that primarch PoV are normally poor, but this depiction of Russ (and the hypocrisy over psykers) is exceptional. Also love the character arc of future 40k Mary Sue Belisarius Cawl, his conversations with his acolyte buddy on the nature of the omnissiah and what it means to be human are superb bits of writing and exactly the world building I like.
In the past I had seen a lot of people give these books negative reviews because the Primarchs or Emp is not in certain book very much. People also complained about the human point-of-view characters which you seem to think help the story. You're the first person that says a point-of-view from the Primarchs is not a good thing all the time and I agree.
Yep, there's a reason Horus killed his personal remembrancer
@@ReverendMeat51 killed his personal remembrancer? As I recall he had almost every remembrancer on the spirit of vengeance killed! One of the most vivid moments for me just imagining the fucking no Russian mission from mw2 but with astartes.
I also loved the remembrancers in fulgrim, the story between Ostian and Serena was one of my favorites. And when Kynska decided to write some tunes that were so bangin that it summoned daemonettes into the material realm was an amazingly written scene.
It really depends what you are looking for - if its world building then the humans are quite important since they give you a very different perspective on the setting. If you are interested in the Heresy itself - overly simplified if you care more about the big picture historic events - then the humans are mostly inconsequential and you are here for the primarchs and the Emperor as their actions shape the legions and thus the history and setting of 40k.
Personally I've only read a couple of books to understand better the Dark Angels I play and a couple of other legions. 30k or 40k are neither my favorite settings when it comes to world building and thus I didn't really care for the humans. But I do agree that from a literary point of view basing the stories around space marines and primarchs is really not working because in theory they should be barely human and thus less relatable - yet they all show very human flaws and mistakes and somehow it doesn't gell 100%.
Good discovery this channel, keep it up mate love the lore and the channel
Discovered it 2 weeks ago. Love it.
His attitude is just spot on.
Obviously lives the setting but isn't a GW fanboi
This is really useful.
Glad you enjoyed Prospero Burns too. I went into that one indifferent to the Vlke, but I was blown away by Abnett's world building around them. He made them into such a fascinating legion. Nice touch with the wet leopards too ;)
Amused me the comment about “it’s a bit late to be introducing legions” somewhere in the 20’s, but given there are 18 legions to introduce, plus continuing story etc. it’s not surprising!
I find my favourite HH books are all ones with less Astartes in, Mechanicum being the top, then Nemesis & Legion.
And if the Astartes are in it, the less about the primarchs the better. I’m up to about book 20 and find myself skipping the chapters where primarchs are talking to each other…
I freaking love Legion
I loved Mechanicum. Such a bonkers book, but the Titan Battle were so kick ass!
Depends on the primarchs. You won't like the seige of terra books lots of primarchs talking to each other.
The most obvious pattern is, if Dan Abnette is writing, you're getting a 5/5 book.
And Graham McNeill, a 4 star
He just knows how to write the 40K setting and 30k
Unless it's Saturnine. One of his few stinkers with the stuff it adds (or rather takes away) from the narrative.
I really, really do not like Prospero Burns. So far, everything else I have read of his is good. He is clearly talented.
@@seprithlicastia463I have to agree, heard so much good stuff about it and finished it with a sour taste in my mouth
I started with the First Heretic. It offers a very good entry point for most of the major themes and plots of the lore.
I'm currently reading Titandeath, and I think ever since around book 40, it's solely been a sunk cost thing for me. "I've read 40 books, what's another 10-15"...Boy howdy did I assess that one wrong. I will say, as a Salamanders fan, I do feel like you did my boys a bit dirty in the video, but at the end of the day, I can't begrudge an opposing opinion to my own.
The First Heretic and Know No Fear are stand out HH novels for me. Currently reading Master of Mankind which has proven very good so far.
I’ve been reading the Horus Heresy series by publication date since last summer (with large breaks during the school semesters) and I’ve only just finished Know no Fear and started the Primarch novellas. Love that you’ve reviewed them all.
I love what you've been doing with the channel. Good work.
I agree with everything you said about the HH books, except Galaxy In Flames. I loved that book so much. As a pay-off for the first two books, and completing the turning of the Luna Wolves, it was everything I wanted. Pathos, betrayal, the mournival facing off, Saul Tarvitz doing everything he could, a proper end for Loken (or what should have been the end), and Angron unleashed on his own legion. I just couldn't have asked for a better conclusion to the initial story. I think it's a five star book.
If they made it into a series they should scrap his ‘resurrection’ I think, he should be the Ned Stark of season one :)
I just started to read these from a place of only vaguely understanding the Horus heresy from the codexs and this is just a top guide. Just reading the synopsis of each book, the words collection and anthology put me right off and seeing how many writers were involved, I had no idea how to judge.
Thanks for this great video!
Love your content Ian, I am fairly new to 40k and am mostly interested in the lore. Your videos are the best I've seen! Eager to see more!
These are the books given 4 or more stars on. I am making this list for myself and anyone else who can't sit through them all, but want to read a few. (Sorry If I missed some, I was skimming)
Horus rising, Fulgrim, Legion, Mechanicum, Tales of Heresy, A thousands sons, The first Heretic, Prospero burns, The outcast died, Know no fear, Shadows of treachery, Betrayer, Scars, Path of heaven, Praetorian of Dawn, Master of mankind, Tallarn, Titandeath.
My favorites of these are Fulgrim, Betrayer, Scars and Mechanicum.
Have to agree with the first 5 being really good but from there you can basically pick and choose what to read about but also completely agree that Legion is hands down the best book in the series and its not even a competition, nothing comes close at all, my ones I'm looking to get next are A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns to read that arc, to me personally I love Garro and co and the whole Knights Errant/birth of the Grey Knights arc so that stands out to me, besides that I'm a Dark Angel fanboy at heart so I'll take anything I can get with them, might get ones to do with the Iron Warriors too especially post-Heresy cause that's when Perturabo becomes a proper badass, besides that there's not a ton of Legions I find enjoyable, for the loyalists I would have to probably say the Blood Angels though I do admittedly like the Raven Guard's story too, for the traitors you gotta love Magnus at least, Kurze I guess is cool in his own way, the others are kinda bland and boring
Edit: its March 2022 and I've since read The First Heretic which was fantastic, 5 stars easily, Know No Fear again 5 stars, currently on Betrayer and really loving it, I have Scars but I do kinda wanna read Unremembered Empire cause it does intrigue me how that came about, plus my boi The Lion and also the Angel himself, Sanguinius are in it so I wanna see how they interact with each other but after Scars its gonna be Vengeful Spirit
Legion would have been better if the first thirty or so pages were more readable. You're immediately thrown into the book with a one-sided interrogation (from the future), then thrown into the desert with guardsmen wielding wildly similar and unpronounceable names/ranks, and then of course you come face to face with the enigma of the Legion itself.
I'm still astounded that the one Horus Heresy book I've read, that I chose on a whim from a used bookstore, happened to be _Legion,_ one of the better ones. I really lucked out on that one. I almost bought Battle of the Abyss at the same time. Glad I didn't.
I bought both at the same time to read on the way to and during my trip to Spain with friends and I couldn't put Legion down once I started, I loved it so much! Battle for the Abyss was so boring though, I've tried it twice and can't get more than halfway through cause it's that boring
@@thatlonewolfguy2878 yeah I almost bought abyss as my first HH book but I decided to read them in the release order instead. One of the happiest decisions of my life. And I’m glad I read Horus rising, false gods, and galaxy in flames first. I enjoyed them so much that I’d probably consider them some of my favorite 40k books let alone HH books.
Fuckin love Legion, it's great, as an Alpha Legion book it's not really about them directly, which fits really well. I thought it was great
Best book, best legion ❤
My favourite has got to be Fear to Tread
"Only Angels may fly." So sayeth the Angel as he broke the spine of the Greater Daemon.
Thank you so much for these recommendations!
I just wanted to tell you that your Warhammer 40K videos have inspired many Latinamerican fans to make their own. I hope you can invite folks like 3HuntLeo to your podcast, he and his crew know English so there should be no issues about the language barrier.
Thank you again for everything you do for the community, greetings from a Mexican fan!
I love the rememberencer points of view, whole serves is enjoyable if not always well written
Scars, Know No Fear, Path to Heaven, The Flight of Eisenstein, The First Heretic, Betrayal..
Awesome just finished this one so thought I’d dive into your review. Great thoughts and really nice reflections
Seriously, thank you so much for this. This is a series that has always intrigued me, but... sweet crap, thems a lot of books. Knowing which ones can be skipped and which ones are great make the whole thing a lot more approachable.
Two things my favourite books in the series have in common. Dan Abnett and Graham McNeil. They both write believable characters and well thought out plots. And I'd be surprised if Abnett hasn't seen sevice. Guy writes a firefight like he's actually been under fire. I need to get back to these books but I need to replace the first 20 books and it's a daunting prospect.
Perfect timing. I'm working my way through the horus heresy series and I was wondering what to skip and what I have to read.
I personally loved the Salamanders focused novels but to each their own. Also I LOVED Titandeath, but I'm a member of the Questoris Familia so I suppose I am a mark for it.
I loved Crimson King the background it gave to the depths of Magnus shattering and the effect on his psyche was incredibly well done to me and provided alot of the answers to the questions of why he wasnt a loyalist.
I’m reading it now, it also tells what happened to the remembrancers from Prospero and brings back Lucius and Yasu Nagasena - I’m enjoying it :)
That synthwave though 😁
I found Garro to be quite an important character, he ties a fair few things together from another perspective.
As a salamanders player making their way through the HH series..... feels bad man.
As an Iron Hands player, you might have it worse but I feel your pain.
The Salamanders books tell us where Vulcan has been since the HH but they do it extremely subtly and it's rad.
@@LimerickJim the problem with the HH Vulkan build up is that they kind of fckd that in the War of the Beast - imo they should've left Vulkan alone, instead of dragging him in to the whole thing with the orks.
@@Deimos0 disagree. The war of the beast shows that Vulkan is aware of what is going on in the galaxy. He's not napping or in stasis somewhere.
This is what I call quality content
I wouldn’t give all the Salamanders novels such a low rating, just finished Old Earth and it had good content for the Eldar and perpetuals!
Master of mankind is epic, and for me back into the HH
I am very thankful that i picked up the first primarch series book before i plowed into the HH, as i believe it gave me a bit of perspective. Since then i have alternated between both series and have really enjoyed the first 10 books of each. High lights legion,fulgrim and prospero burns. It is a valid point about the story perspectives, however we don't want a homogenised, comic book series of 'events'. It is a truly epic tale. I highly recommend reading the 1st 5 as it lays the scene very well.
I really find it interesting that you prefer the POV to be from normal human characters as I figured the pull of 30k was to see the primarchs in action and to help flesh them out as characters. Though I do recall many of my favourite parts of these novels being the ones that included normal humans interacting with the astartes or primarchs. I'd say some of my favourites books would be Betrayer, Angel Exterminatus and the first 3 (since they really are one narrative split into three books)
Well done mate, somehow didn't feel rushed. Choice of star fills each time kept me amused.
can't even describe the bravery to do this series DESPITE liking Descent of Angels, incredible scenes (thanks for this, I've been wanting to read 'the good ones' for a while after falling apart half-way through Mechanicum (with Descent and Abyss half-read) a few times)
Mechanicum is awesome tho
As someone who has read through every single book in this series so far, I agree with many of your points. One of my personal favourites is Prince of Crows by Aaron Demski-Bowden, such an amazing Night Lords novella!
Sevatar is a top character for sure!
Tallarn is such a good book, easily in my top 3 of the Horus Heresy books
Five Wet Leopards was a deep reference 😂😅
I have read some of the books here and there, particularily loved Legion, but it seems there are some more worth digging into.
Just found this video - and it’s excellent, thanks for making it! I don’t always agree, but 100% on the human perspectives making the stories so much better. And all those anthologies reprinting stories sold separately (ugh).
General rule of thumb: anything by ADB is God tier
Essentially yes
meh... Night lords was pretty cool, Talon of Horus was just shite
I love ADBs books.
His Night Lords series was great
He’s good at writing bad guys
*laughs in Master of Mankind*
Yes, this is timely! I'm reading Hereticus now, then onto Ravenor, Valdor and the Heresy!
I’m a big fan of Eisenhorn and Ravenor. Read them all twice. Bequin books are very enjoyable as well! Some of my favorite 40k books. Enjoy!
@@charlesbratt2504 thanks, I am! liked Xenos fine, but Malleus was on another level of enjoyment for me. need to wait till Penitent comes out in my language, but in the meantime Pariah is definitely on the list!:)
This review has made me feel fairly satisfied with calling it quits after reading the first four books. I'm sure there's more out there, but I was generally frustrated by the books' ability to write allegedly superhuman beings like the primarchs in a way that felt believable, or to legitimize the philosophy of the Great Crusade (there's a speech early on in Horus Rising that's written like it's meant to wow everyone, but it's so bottom-of-the-barrel rhetoric it soured some of the human characters for me too. "The Imperial Truth is true because the Emperor says it's true!" Wow, brilliant.)
The most significant frustrations had to do with how they decided to externalize the causes of Horus's fall, making it a matter of demonic daggers and cursed wounds and spirit visions and all kinds of pulpy bullshit rather than for once trying to write a big boy story where it's Horus' own psychology that proves his downfall. (I generally don't expect too complex characterization from 40k books, but I was hoping they'd go for it in what felt like a prestige series, but this was before the Horus Heresy turned into a sub-franchise juggernaut it has become).
I have been told repeatedly that later books rectify this, and add more complexity and inner motivation, but then they also add stuff I definitely dislike like the plot-device Cabals (prophecies are almost always cheap "character motivation-in-a-can" tools) and they turn intentionally-nobodies like Ollanius into immortals and make the cause of the tyranids some sidequest-astronomican, or retcon the Council of Nicea into the Emperor just being a massive idiot, or retcon the Inquisition origin into something a lot less interesting and more sunday morning cartoon-like, etc. etc. Also it seems like there's an ABSURD amount of bloat here.
It was fun pallying around with the Mournival, and I think the treachery at the end was heartbreaking. I am content.
Yeah, I think your criticisms are valid. And I don't think they really fix the "Horus is not a character" problem at all. I'd say however there are a few decent books worth reading outside of the first 4 (and I think Flight of the Eisenstein is pretty terrible, and Graham MacNeill's two books are pretty forgettable and bad too). I think First Heretic, Know No Fear and Betrayer are pretty good as a sort of self contained trilogy about the Word Bearers, Ultramarines and latterly World Eaters.
Especially First Heretic is a pretty good read that you can take as a standalone pretty happily.
Most of the rest of the series is schlock and not even particularly good schlock. Chris Wraight's White Scars novels are genuinely pretty good, ADB and Dan Abnett tend to do alright no matter what, but apart from that it's not worth the time.
I think it's a real shame that they crapped out on Horus's fall so badly. The series is 54 books long and he's the title character, and he's only actually a character for one book.
Keep rewatching this each time I finish another few books - only 4 more to go before Siege of Terra now! :)
I read Legion after watching this video and I agree, it's one of the best Warhammer books I have ever read. I just wish the human characters appeared in other books.
Keep going in the heresy...
New to the whole 40k, and really warhammer in general, IP so i started with Eisenhorns books a few months ago and now im about ten books into the heresy. Enjoying it so far and im not as lost as i worried i might be although i do loathe the idea of a four dozen plus books series as much as im excited to listen to them all in order.
Oh, I did decide to skip the anthologies so I anyone thinks I'm missing too much in doing that please feel free to make your case.
Know No Fear, and Fear To Tread are my two top rated Horus Heresy novels.
Also, got to say, you seem to dislike the focus on the Astartes and Primarchs. But it’s the Horus Heresy. That’s a period of Warhammer all about Space marines and their Primarchs.
Also also :) Mortis was pretty good.
saw the title of this video...
WHAT, thats insane , really nice job.
Fulgrim and false gods deserved 5 stars
Fulgrim is a masterpiece. The way the fall to chaos was depicted in both Astartes and civilians was sublime. The way the mood changes throughout the book was so well handled through characters and settings, like the sculptor and the bar. I loved it
@@iESCAP1SM Agreed. I dont even like the emperor's children. But it was easily one of the best books by far.
My only problem with fulgrim was the plot armor the emperors children got against the eldar. But then again they’re space marines and space marines have more plot armor than actual super heroes so I guess I shouldnt be too surprised
Legion is hands down my favourite so far, but I'm only 20 or so in. The TS books were stella too. I FORCED myself to read batle for the Abyss on a trip to and from London. Did you know how BIG that spaceship is? The Cannons are HUGE and the doors VAST. The Engines are ENOURMOUS!!
Its big, we get it.
The final battle for some reason reminded me of the Milky Way advert where the Red car and blue car had a race. I genuinely didnt give a shit who won.
I personally found the primarchs and their perspective the most captivating part of the series but I do agree with humans alsp being an important factor
Absolutely. I mean....when I hear a story about, say, Hercules? I want it to be about _Hercules_, not the guy who mows Hercules' lawn.
These videos are so well done. Thank you very much for putting all of these together!
This is the EXACT video I needed! I read the first 7 or so HH novels and then kinda lost interest because they started feeling like filler. I would Pick up a book here or there like Master of Mankind or Mechanicus if I heard great things but I basically just got overwhelmed by the number of books. This video gave me a nice list of books for me to dive back into and check out thanks so much!
First 5 HH books are a great introduction. You get introduced to some of the bigger characters, the settings and the fall of the Emperor's children. But I'm a bit biased to everything that has any Night Lords or Fabius Bile in it.
Making my way through the series on audiobook now, started last July and am now on Burden of Loyalty. By and large of liked something from every book, but when the Iron Hands turn up I just can't help but wish they were wiped out. Sorry Ferrus lovers.
@@natty4316 I've been using Audible and hunting through their sales and discounts to try get the whole series. Don't think I've paid full price for any of them.
The very first WH40K book I read was Know No Fear and I am supremely thankful for that. It was a relatively simple book that not only grabbed my attention but made me genuinely feel for the humans of this universe. Making my way through the Horus Heresy (not necessarily in release order) and so far the only books that got me to feel extremely emotional was Galaxy in Flames (when Horus made his announcement), The First Heretic (when Argel apologized) and A Thousand Sons (when Magnus confessed to his sons).
Great vids. Please do the Ian Watson trilogy and short stories. It would be amazing to see the comments section explode in division! And to get your take on them, of course 😊
Wait he made 3 of them? Are they all as gross as Draco?
@@sirshotty7689 Inquisitor/Draco is the freakiest for sure. Harlequin and Chaos Child are a little more inline with the standard 40k fodder.
Thank you for all the recommendations!
See, with your ratings, now I want your version of Twelve Days of Christmas.
*Cough* Twelve days of Sanguinalia.
Your videos are great for painting to! Thank you. Keep up the great work!😃😊
"The First Heretic" is always going to be my #1
Absolute essential read. IMHO the most important book of the series. And a great novel.
It sticks with you. I didn't cry at the end I swear
@@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552 custodes were outnumbered, two of the possessed were commanders and so had better fighting prowess
great video, thank you. After reading Know No Fear I finally realized what a joke was that Battle For the Abyss book. Word Bearers lost their biggest ship and core part of their attack plan but it was not even mentioned in Know No Fear....