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The thing that really set me off on McLaren is the fact that the engine has pencil thin cast parts in the rotating assembly. Tavarish's engine failure in his 675LT is what really drove home to me the money issue where McLaren are charging $90k for engines that don't even have a forged rotating assembly like the $18k engine in my Camaro ZL1 or titanium rods like my Corvette Z06. Before I start sounding like I am beholden to a singular brand I should point out that I never see cast rods in Lamborghini or Ferrari engines either. People are popping engines even on the stock tune on some of these cars and at this price level thats unnacceptable.
As an onlooker on British cars for many years, I really like them. TVRs looked amazing, McLaren's also look amazing. The dealer network and quality shoots them in the foot every time. I wish the brit's where more patriotic and kept the £££'s in the the country. Your NEVER hear of Germans / Italians saying there brands are toilet, stay away, must do better...
It's not incredible: everything built to the thousands will have cost cutting to match a price tag, in the same logic an endurance race car will be as light and economical as possible because one tenth quicker every lap means minutes off the whole race time
@@adrianbennett3761 or the flimsy connecting rods. Like, that’s what I mean. On a multiple hundreds of thousands pound car, those should be forged items.
On McLarens quality issues. I applied for a job at McLaren machining the tubs for the cars. I didn’t even get an interview because I didn’t have a degree even though I’m a qualified mechanical engineer with 20 years experience working in aerospace industry and was told that they only taking on 40:53 students with degrees. Anyone who has worked in engineering knows that most graduates have no hands on experience and can’t even use a set of verniers 😂
Get off your high horse, we can use verniers. Your dinosaur skills aren’t needed especially when they come laced with spite and derogatory ageist comments. “Qualified” - who “qualified” you… yourself?
@syedmrzaidi0 I worked as a CNC machinist, and manual machinist. Then went to university and got a degree in computer science. In my experience, on average, I've found the apprentice trained engineers to be more effective, pragmatically skilled and useful in the workplace than most students. I've witnessed first hand, apprentice programmers run rings around 1st class hons students. A degree is not a substitute for work experience no matter how badly students want it to be true.
@@tomfox747 I'm an engineering manager. There's a place for both. Practical experience doesn't just apply to workmanship, it also applies to the scientific method, statistical analysis, structured problem solving, change documentation. Ultimately a really effective engineer can get by without even touching the equipment they're responsible for (I would never recommend it but I've seen it). The hands-on people generally don't know everything there is to know about the process, but they're relied upon to do basic to advanced equipment troubleshooting. The very best engineers can do both but that's rare and ultimately they'll be pulled away from hands-on as their career progresses. There's a marked difference in people who worked part time jobs as children - They are always better workers and more adaptable, regardless of speciality.
@@-BuddyGuy yeah fair enough. I would agree with your entire statement really. Question, have a disproportionate number of students been trained for office/design/management roles in comparison to the number required, whereas has there been an under training of the practically skilled workforce? Reduced down to, too many thinkers not enough do-ers?
A friend of mine was quality manager at McLaren for many years and he and many colleagues became more and more frustrated with the continued drive by shareholders and leadership to drive up sales volume at the expense of testing and quality. A whole tranche of the best people left to join Gordon Murray.
True story; a close friend worked on Macca on QC for the Senna. They had a call to get a customer car signed off in 48 hours and the seats were still in Italy somewhere….. their answer?… hire a private jet from Farnborough and collect them circa £30k round trip 🤷🏻♂️…. My suggestion was to walk into the canteen and say “ do any of you lads want a road trip to Italy in a transit van over the weekend and all expenses paid… just be back here Monday at 8am or you’re fired”… cost?… £3k max. That’s an F1 attitude on a Ford budget and one of the reasons they haven’t made as much profit as they should 😵💫
@@jonathanedwards8913 You fly to Italy on a commerical flight. Hire a car. Drive to the factory. Collect the seats. Box them up. Drive to the airport. Fly home on a commerical flight. Jobs a good un'. You probably don't even have an overnight stay. All in for 2k. Simple.
Just took delivery of my 1st McLaren a few months ago; a 750S Spyder and I am blown away. It’s scores an 11 out 10 in every aspect of the driving experience: seating position, handling, power, exhaust sound, steering feel, engagement, gearbox, visibility, usability, practicality, system interface, AC, sound system, the list goes on. The down side for me is the fuel range, and how the passenger seatbelt warning comes on every time I place my phone on the passenger seat. The 750S has minor software gremlins and built quality issues .. but - so far - a lot less than the Ferrari’s I owned.
Hi from Canada. I bought an Artura back in Feb 2023. Was looking for a Ferrari but had a miserable experience with their dealer. Anyway, McLaren Toronto dealership treated me like a human so I upgraded from a 911 guy. I had quite a few issues with the Artura along the way BUT ultimately the dealership and HQ made my car perfect. It is my daily and for the last 12 months problem free. It’s an incredible car to drive and the brand treats me like a human. Always ensuring my experience and happiness comes first. Just want to say that the Artura is a great daily driver, a great super car and the brand is fantastic. I disagree with you that McLaren is not listening. They are and they build the best drivers cars today. Porsche is now about making money and their cars are not as exciting. Their prices now are astronomical and their service is no different than BMW. McLaren is definitely at a much higher orbit. That’s my opinion which is different than yours. But mine is coming from being an owner for nearly 2 years.
With all due respect you're dealing with Chris Green McLaren Toronto who's one of the best McLaren GMs in the world. You also probably went to Ferrari of Ontario which is also in turn one of the worst Ferrari Dealers in North America. Please imagine how your experience would be if you didn't experience those two polarizing dealers that are literally a few meters apart.
Porsches were never meant to be "exiciting", lol. Theyre the japanese of the super car world. They just work. And with that said, their cars, the track focused ones, they're way more exciting and visceral than anything McL put on the road since the F1. McLarens feel and sound hollow. I know you want to feel good about your buy but sorry, the automotive world doesnt share your view. And no, you being an owner doesnt give more value to your opinion, it actually removes due to the implied bias. BTW, youre moaning about Porsche prices being astronomical yet you bought a McLaren? Are you kidding us?
Wow James you can’t win can you?! Damned if you do damned if you don’t. You praised McLaren in the last video and qualified the praise with reasons why. All of which I felt were well articulated and objectively presented. Bear in mind your points were specific to the 720s that you drove. This video gives an overview of the whole company ethos, business practice (questionable practice at that) and where you feel the company is going wrong. Again all well articulated and objective. It seems some commenters can’t discern that you’re not a MacLaren hater and fail to see objective analysis as anything other than hate! The joys of the TH-cam commentators! 😂
@@MIK23458 Well that's something the company is going to have to change now isn't it, they might not like it but Jay's opinion here is not an isolated incident. People have been saying the same things (if worse) about the company's road cars for years, and have been keeping receipts on it.
Do you expect people to engage positively with a video that starts by talking about Artura losing money per car sold? When quite clearly that years posting including investment into up-coming platforms? That is nothing but a youtuber take for controversy on a video, it is a very weird thing to say, is it not?
I loved my 12C. 3 years and 14k miles. Went all over Europe in it, used it lots. It had some issues, BUT they were all sorted under warranty. In fact, in 3 years, it cost me nothing over and above the services (which were about £900 each). When I sold it, it had deprecated £10k. In total, including depreciation and warranty costs. It worked out at £1.13 per mile. I replaced it with a 981 spyder. That car I had for 18 months and 8k miles, total cost £1.56 per mile. I also bought an F355 GTS manaul which broke down more than any other car I have owned (with the exception of an M635csi) and ended up at £2.13 per mile. As my 12C was cheaper to run, more economical, comfier, more reliable and much much faster than its replacements, I bought a 675LT. I have now had that car almost 5 years and 15k miles. It has never let me down, it has no warranty and the last service was £495 at V engineering. It remains the best car I have ever driven, it is so exciting, so fast, has so much traction. Its beautiful, its British and I Love it. It will never be sold. I now have a 718 spyder too, which is a wonderful car but there is no comparison to the 675LT or 12C. McLaren do have customer relations issues BUT that's the management. The engineers & designers are amongst the best in the world and make wonderful, amazing cars.
@Spenny909 just get a 650s, most reliable, get it inspected and get a warranty for the 1st year in case any niggles do need sorting. V engineering will look after you all the way, they really are amazing. The sports series have door, corrosion and electrical gremlins but they really got the 650/675 all sorted 👍🏻
Do you want one? Because I’ll be honest I came THIS close to buying one but when I was looking at my hard earned money and more money to spend after that (also I’m not ober rich just okay) I kinda chickened out and bought a Bentley instead. And I own two TVRS so unreliability is okay by me but unreliable and expensive ??? I couldn’t bring myself to do it
Two years into a 720 spider. Fastest thing on the road, this side of 750k. Only issue so far being a door strut. Service at Leeds, use regularly. Stunning and would buy another in a heartbeat . If I had the cash, a 765 but can’t afford nor justify one! Can’t imagine what to replace it with. As to brake pedal pressing for start. It is a safety feature. Wants to ensure system is pressurised before starting. Easier to pump once and then press brake
The MP4-12c is the poster child of “Ugly in print, stunning in person”. Looked so plain in magazines but had stunning proportions in real life. Next to the 720s & 765LT I think it’s the best looking now. I never could get into the “alien bubble” look when the 570’s started. I still want an MP4-12c today and I feel like it’s only a matter of time before some enthusiast figures out creative ways to deal with their common electrical/mechanical issues. Compared to the issues the P1s have with hybrid batteries, the MP4-12c seems like an easy fix 😂
In 1998, McLaren bought up a UK audio company called Audiolab. Audiolab had a great reputation in the audio world. McLaren announced big plans. They introduced audio-visual home cinema equipment that could be upgraded as new audio standards were introduced (like Dolby digital etc). I bought into this great plan. 5 years later the great plan was dead. McLaren closed down their audio operations, and all their customers were left with expensive AV boxes that would never get to see the promised continued developments & upgrades. Organisation that do things like that in their past make me nervous about buying anything from them in future.
@@alexanderstefanov6474 yeah, I know, & am pleased about that, and I was specifically referring to products and direction which McLaren declared and were heading in during their tenure of Audiolab.
6th year into ownership of 570 spider. Yes it has niggles. My dealer (Ascot) has been actually been very good on bodywork and door hinge issues. Did Macca corporate annoy the feck out of me at Goodwood by not letting me into their VIP area to see an Artura… yes 🤬… did I storm over to Lotus and put £5000 deposit on new Emira?… yes. 🤦🏻♂️ Do I have other cars?, yes a California T for touring and a GR Yaris for track, but is the 570 a joy to drive quickly on the Isle on Man mountain pass and Silverstone?…. My god Yes, YES, Y-E-S (in a Meg Ryan kinda way 😜)…
Good morning James; I've never owned a McLaren; the closest I came was a test drive with a friend who wanted my opinion before he bought one. It broke down on test when a hose gave out. Somehow, according to the dealer, that was my fault! Apparently I didn't know how to drive a supercar....erm. One lost sale. The friend's broken ankle has healed, and he now owns, and loves, a Ferrari.
I am fortunate enough to have a few cars and having listened to the bad reviews dismissed Mc Laren. I bought a 720s with 3000 miles in 2020. A year old car that had depreciated by 40%. I’ve taken it around Europe and travelled 22,000 miles in it. It’s never let me down however a spring broke whilst abroad,the suspension needle a rebuild with a common fault. Bits have fallen off such as the door handle and the windows sometimes are a law unto themselves whilst locking however I absolutely enjoy every minute behind the wheel and the incredible performance more than compensates for any shortcomings.I bought a new 992 turbo S which has had more problems and it takes two months to book an appointment in service. As your daily,probably not,as a consideration at current price levels absolutely. I would recommend. Great content Mr Jayemm.
I have had numerous caymans, 991.2 GT3RS, now own a 992 GT3 and 2020 600LT. All were/are heavily tracked, I am way faster around the track in the 600LT than any Porsche product I’ve owned including the 992 GT3. As for reliability and running costs, I’ve had my fair share of problems with Porsche, but the problem is, whenever my McLaren has a problem it’s way more expensive to fix for not as quality of a product. What was recently really annoying about my 600LT is I’ve had a faulty battery and it was almost $6K to replace because of the IBS module that’s built into the battery…. And although the battery held a charge, the IBS malfunctioned. Since that is connected to the battery it wasn’t covered under the McLaren ESC warranty… otherwise the 600LT is faultless on track and off.
I might just be lucky, but I bought the much derided GT in Papaya spark orange 1 year ago, and it has been pretty much perfect. I have now driven nearly 4000 miles including a trip to Germany and it hasn’t skipped a beat. Fantastic performance, great comfort and when you settle down on a motorway it will easily do 30mpg. It might not be the prettiest car in the range but the amount of attention it garners with people wanting to have a photo taken with it is extraordinary and something I have never experienced with the many Porsche`s I have owned. The price I paid which was before the general slump in the market was a scarcely believable £130K for a 7 month old car with a 3 year service pack included. Given you can buy a 4 year old one today for £90K, I cannot think of anything that comes close to the drama, performance and presence at that money. I agree that McLaren have screwed up the market and caused this depreciation but they now limit the cars flow into the market. With the GT they clearly managed the market to make sure in the UK there were never more than 30 used examples for sale. Buy wisely from a trusted source and have a realistic budget for ongoing costs and you will be getting a bargain.
To be completely fair, for any normal car, and I would argue, something this expensive should be much the same, 4000 miles is not a long time. That’s about 2 months use for my daily driver! I sincerely hope your car continues to be trouble free and you have a lovely time with it though.
I remember the Top Gear episode with three supercars. One was the 12c. I remember James may explain how every part was designed to perfection. I felt so pleased we had a supercar that worked and was brilliant, something to aspire to other than a Porsche. We'll, that didn't work out too well. I now drive a Porsche.
I hear what you're saying but the 458 Italia and 488 weren't great, they were too soft in the rear, both were "fixed" to some degree with the Speciale and the Pista. I "lucked out" with my McLaren 720S, bought from new its been outstanding and in Mantis Green it really stands out. The McLaren experience is dealer specific, also if you deal with MSO they're outstanding. I suspect you're dealing with cars that have been passed on to some degree - in the UK lots of dealers behave very poorly toward customers and cars alike, many have no idea how to look after a McLaren. What I do agree with is, Mclaren should be all over these issues. Best service I've had is with Ferrari, by a long way. Porsche is now very hit and miss, service centres, since the advent of Macan, have become terrible. PS the 600LT is an outstanding car. Of the many great cars I have owned the keepers have been 720S, 991.2 GT3 RS, 296 GTB and 600LT. The real issue is, fundamentally the British workforce DGAF and neither does the management - thats why major industries failed in the UK and continue to fail to this day. Its not McLaren specific, Mclaren is simply a manifestation of the underlying problem. This is simple, people are paying for a product, they expect it to work and be fit for purpose - if it doesn't meet expectations they get rid of it and buy a reliable product. If you're workforce doesn't understand this your company doesn't deserve the custom. Period.
I would humbly suggest, McLaren production staff are far removed from British Leyland production. .. James mentioned poor cheap hose clips being used, that's a management issue not a staff issue..? No doubt there's disgruntled employees, that's not reflective of the whole workforce.. ..
@@stuartd9741 Agreed, this is both a management and production staff issue. You can have a great finance team and design team but if you don't have a good delivery and execution team it causes real problems.
@@evanjohn503 I said the British workforce DGAF and they don't. Bad attitude and has been that way for a long time. If you buy a product it has to be fit for purpose and the customer has the absolute right for remedy if there is a problem and replacement if the problem doesn't get fixed. My 720S has been excellent as has my 600LT in BC. Others have had lots of problems - for what its worth I found the same with Lotus having owned a 380 and Cup 430. Had problems with both, in the end you give up with manufacturers that don't stand with their products and won't fix QAQC issues.
Superb James, a detailed breakdown of a company without fear of being blackballed by them, I doubt many journalists would have the balls to expose them in such detail. 👏👏
We Bristish just like our cars to work........ i spat out my coffee at that point. And I say that as a previous and current owner of many british cars.
My biggest problem with McLaren is I can't tell any of the models apart, despite being a "car guy". They all look the same. It's weird how they don't seem to understand that model differentiation is as important as brand differentiation. Porsche knows this. Ferrari does, too. Same with Lambo's. If I spent that much $ on a car, I want it to look like I did. That's the point of spending that much lucre.
@@TheJohn8765 🤣😂🤣 Porsche know it?? that’s very funny. Every Porsche for years has been on the same platform and they keep the heritage design. If you line up 20 Porsches and walk across the front they ALL look the same. They also have many different types which look the same, forgetting the older stuff you have . They were all named in the video, all pretty much look the same. 🤷♂️
@@TheJohn8765 so it's not just me... It has never been my fav marque so I thought maybe I just couldn't tell the models apart because I wasn't paying much attention. They do all look very similar to me and the naming convention doesn't help much.
I used to call it the mclaren dance for the non recognition of the key. I had an early 570s I lasted a year and had to sell it was so poorly built. The firewall detached and was sitting on the frame. Every possible fault would happen. Car couldn't be washed without a fault happening. So sad I loved it the few days it worked
My first McLaren was the 540C and reason for purchase was price over say the 458. I drive from Adelaide, South Australia to Thredbo, New South Wales, approx 1200km one way on flat roads until reaching the Aussie alps. The first trip I took was not through the desolate part of Australia (with zilch phone signal) but rather a longer journey where I was predominantly in phone range (forum comments of McLaren reliability caused this longer trip). The whole trip was awesome, the economy was great and comfort wise a gem. I then proceeded to trade up to a 720S and have completed the same trip without fault. The sections of snow in the mountains around Thredbo meant I had to use snow socks from Goodyear Canada (chains won't fit) and again both cars ploughed through the snow with ease. The front lift takes time in comparison to a Porsche and the infotainment takes some getting use to.......otherwise a happy customer here. The dealer in Adelaide is amazing and looks after the customer.
We have a road here in West Auckland ,New Zealand ,Bruce McLaren Road named after our Kiwi Hero also have a school named after him as well ,Theres a Mclaren dealership on Great North Roade Aucvkland and the best car i saw there was Ayrton Sennas Honda /Mclaren turbo FI car from the 80s
I’ve had a 540c for 6 years Won’t sell it as it’s not worth much but nothing comes close for the money hence I’ve kept it Have never bought another one simply because of issues like the one JayEmm explains first up.
I remember the press releases at the time of the Iris system. They had all these stupid ideas like making the hardware dual redundant in case something failed. Hardware failures almost never happen, software is another matter. Ironically all attempts at dual redundancy make the software far more complicated and more likely to fail. To top it off, dual redundancy can only overcome hardware faults. If the software is faulty, then no matter how many instances are running, they will all fail.
I worked for McLaren several years ago for just over 3 years. The management was terrible, they treated engineers like part numbers and expected them to work extreme hours. Cars left the site with trims missing and other defects, that was the norm. McLaren spends money like there's no tomorrow on events for cystomers and sales, the sales team are milking it. I will not shed a tear when they go burst and are sold and goes over seas to some place like Dubai.
This man is *brilliant* The absolute best auto commentary / review show on the planet... Beautiful "wordsmithing" mixed with perfect camera angles, and awesome drive by's. --Perfection.
I have a friend who worked at McLaren and he hated it. He worked at the HQ as well, he even said he didn't leave on good terms. Didn't shake any hands on his way out. I think their cars have so much potential, but potential that maybe hasn't been reached. He told me cars were being made and engineers forgetting to put any oil in the engines. So many McLaren's caught fire that it became a meme. I've had another friend who bought a 12C and a week later a coolant hose popped and the entire car went up in steam. He sold it immediately. Car only had 5,000 miles on it. Another friend had his glass engine cover randomly shatter. When the GT came out, everyone I know was confused by its existence. When the Speedtail came out, I happened to be working at a detailing company that did PPF on many new high end cars. Speedtails were coming in a lot and going wrong simply from being jet washed. Idk man I'd just be scared to go near one. Sounds like you shouldn't buy a McLaren unless you can afford 2 of them.
Hoovie's Garage went thru an engine and a tranny in the time he owned it (6 months, I think). Thankfully, he had an extended warranty. No way would I buy a McLaren. Their components, tho high performance, seem to be super stressed to get there. Hard nope from me (not that I can afford one).
It was the senior directors on weighty LTIP programs. Long term incentive plan. Post 2008 crisis the annual bonus became a rolling 3 year bonus for the big guys. So all they had to do was get a massive bonus after 3 years graft and then when it dried up they moved on. Leaving a mess but a string of ok sales records but little else.
So fair to say, the past the top of Mcl were not necessarily brand ambassadors, or enthusiasts, Not invested in the long term prospects of the company?
This is not unusual in a lot of big businesses. New ceo comes along with their ideas…..takes a while for their ideas to be shown to go disastrously wrong by which time ceo leaves, a new ceo comes along and it’s Groundhog Day.
@@stephenbland7461 exactly that. So long as they can keep it moving along for a few years with various trickery they get their bonus. Sadly this was forcing through cars they knew weren’t right just for numbers to present to the board
Exactly. Some commenters here think Harry has a magic wand to find the only car with no issues. He doesn’t he trusts the brand and doesn’t listen to the haters
@@MW-uy3np 650s was a model with very few issues, it was an MSO car with a high specification including Amethyst paint. Watched the Thorney videos and got it at a really good price
A friend had a 650s for about 3 years before just selling it recently. Apart from the battery (he didn’t have it on a charger, but we got it charged eventually all OK) it never missed a beat. Very good car I would say.
I am a Porsche guy, never owned a Mclaren, but a Porsche guy friend of mine made the leap, after a year and a half of problems with the transmission, and the threat of invoking the Lemmon law in my state, the dealer offered a full price trade for an Aston Martin that the dealer also sold. He has never been happier. It’s like a boat, the happiest two days are the day you get it and the day you get rid of it.
@@JohnFromAccounting there was always a huge debate from every side about which car is the best. Well, the best car is the one that works at least most of the time, and requires very little to do that. Also, calling Porsche boring is something only an englishman would do with their fancy *ss attitude and national superiority combined. Maybe the Panamera and their SUVs are nothing special, but calling a 911, Boxster or Cayman boring is hysterical laugh fuel... 😂
One of the first things my (excellent) sales person told me on my 720S delivery day.... "Sometimes you have to press the brake pedal fairly hard to trigger the start interlock". Done and done. My other comment would be that perhaps when you live in the land of lots of boring roads and roundabouts, things like "theatrical exhaust sound" become more important, but the Mclarens are built as drivers cars... and when you're ripping through canyons and twisties, top-down in a super-stiff-chassis Mclaren spider having more fun than any other street car you've ever driven, you aren't thinking "ah... I'd rather be in a car with more theatrical sound but without this feel, without this performance, without this capability..."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, James. My experiences and thoughts nearly match yours after driving several examples (12C, 675LT, P1). I was interested and wanted to buy a McLaren but as an enthusiast in Ohio (hundreds of miles away from a dealership) and the experiences of family members that have them kept me away from the brand. They are incredible machines and absolutely loved driving them!
My coworker and I rented one (2019 570S Spider) in 2019 for 24 hours. It had an occasional knocking sound on the right rear side, but to this day, I have never driven anything faster. The next closest was a C8 Corvette, but it's build quality and nagging issues posted by owners kept me away. Last year, I bought a 45th Anniversary GR Supra in Mikan Blast color. Really, it is almost as exclusive as a supercar. Only 450 were made in that color. I am thus far very happy with it.
I'm gonna go ahead and say Shareholders. Usually the source of all bag fumbling in an up-to-then well functioning business, due to their pursuits of personal short-term bags.
You don't know much about financials then. Share holders do not pursue short term gains at the expense of the overall functioning of the business as that is self defeating. Shareholders either want an increase in the share price (called unrealized gain) or an increase in the amount the company pays them per share per year and/or a decrease in dividend yield (since a smaller dividend yield means a healthier company). Both of these are long term, though you can also benefit from short term share price growth. Indeed most shareholders prefer dividend yield, since it is a zero effort and roughly zero risk method of making money. It's why bluechip stocks are so coveted, you are not going to make any short term profit off of them as they've essentially reached the limits of their potential for massive short term growth, but they're not likely to decrease in value either and offer you good dividends. Getting a company you have invested into to blue chip status is the ideal for a shareholder, especially for a large institutional shareholder like a bank.
In the past maybe it was possible that the shareholders' short sightedness that caused all of these problems. But since McLaren is now fully owned by the Bahrain SWF, I hope that the direction and the decisions made for the company is more long-term oriented just like how Lawrence Stroll is currently running Aston Martin.
Controversial: I’d like to see a Japanese or Korean manufacturer come in and buy McLaren so they have a feather in their cap - run them like a proper car company and improve quality, but let McLaren remain in charge of design and performance
I mean, we've seen what happens when McLaren and Honda worked together (and actually stayed in their lanes) in the 90s. The second time around wasn't so productive, but I think most put that on McLaren given Honda's subsequent success with RBR.
@@LapoftheWorld Most people would be completely wrong then... The Honda PU McLaren was using was woefully underpowered & unreliable, it literally couldn't harvest/deploy electrical power for a sustained period, it was such a poor PU that McLaren couldn't see the deficiencies in their chassis. It was only when Honda changed the manager of the F1 PU unit that things started improving but by then McLaren had already pulled the plug,
I'm on my 2nd 650s spider over 5 years. Wouldn't change for anything else. Except maybe a right-hand drive P1 (spider), so that's not happening. Not even for a 488 spider (50+k more). No warranty required so long as proper thorough PDI with a knowledgeable aftermarket specialist, of which there are now a few. (Thorney, V-Engineering being superb). Do your research well prior to buying. Get an *independent* PDI (even when buying from dealer). Avoid the stealership network (some are good, just many are not) and charge £x2 of independents. However, even with major breakages the good independents know how to spot and fix stuff. Yes the brand and company are shockingly bad at looking after customers. But the products can be awesome. Have had more problems with my BMW than either McLaren.
Great post. I’ve never owned or driven a McLaren but as an F355 owner I also get tired of the same comments about Ferrari ownership. Same rules apply when buying irrespective of the marque. Pass on anything that isn’t a low mileage, few owner car that hasn’t been driven regularly and maintained by a specialist. Get an independent full PDI done and find a good specialist to maintain it annually. IMO I can’t see why a McLaren, Ferrari or any other exotic car is any less reliable than anything else if those simple rules are followed. In the five years I’ve owned my car, she’s run like a Swiss watch. Hope you are still enjoying driving your 650. Awesome car.
@sultanoftippoo3857 "I cannot see why any exotic would be less reliable..." sometimes it is the owner to blame. They would miss on essential maintenance or, for example, run the car through deep water, and say it is the manufacturer at fault. Cars treated like this are usually ones that have depreciated a lot and are bought by people wanting to spend less on a performance car. The cars will go to non specialists and will be driven without warm up and cool downs and potential issues like perished valves will go unnoticed.
@@Spenny909 100% agree, there’s no accounting for a stupid owner. That’s why I specifically mentioned looking for a car with a low number of owners who run the car regularly and take it to be properly maintained by a specialist. You can never eliminate the risk of a previous owner who abuses any car but that’s true whether it’s a Toyota or a Bugatti but the things I mentioned in my original post hopefully reduce the odds of someone buying a lemon no matter what the marque is.
Great video, many of the reasons I’ve discounted having a McLaren (at least for now) mentioned. The second hand values make them an interesting proposition, particularly in the light of more independent specialists popping up to add choice on the maintenance front.
11:07 Now THAT sounds superb to my ears! McLarens also look spectacular, hyper modern and purposeful. I'd also guess that their choice of a smaller turbo assisted engine preempted what was coming with all the EU regs being forced upon car manufacturers. But you are SO right about their desperate need to sort out their customer service in certain areas of the UK. Spending house money on a car should guarantee PERFECT customer service, if not then repeat custom will disappear. As McLaren is British I am 100% behind it!
Well that was very informative, but now all I want to do is take my 540c ( with Larini exhaust ) for a drive through the hills ❤ it’s an unmatched driving experience and my experience with other brands is extensive, thanks Jay
Jay, you are fast becoming one of my top five youtube channels. Top job. Totally agree, if you don't look after your customers you will fall faster than a supercar. John...
It's notoriously difficult to get a good exhaust song after some turbos have been fitted. The McLaren Automotive story is remarkable in that it starts off with Ron Dennis' ocd, and then becomes British Leyland's nfg. I do hope they get their act together though!
@@rossross8224Jay does appear to have a massive downer on McLaren and wheels out a video at any opportunity to continue to do so… many McLaren owners came from Porsche and Ferrari and spoke of problems with those cars, the dealers, expensive repairs etc but the Germans and Italians escape the focus McLaren gets. No doubt McLaren have their issues, they’ve been around a lot less time than the Germans and Italian brands… they appear to be moving in the right direction now but it will take time to build confidence. I have a 981 GT4, if I ever have the means to move up the ladder I would love a McLaren, no interesting in owning a Ferrari at all.
yea just go listen to Chris Harris latest podcast with his mates. They will tell you the truth of whats going on with ferrari now. im so sick and tired of people praising ferrari like we cant see owners reports, and we cant see terrible depreciation, and we cant hear about order books being closed. why do all these ferrari owners ignore this
Dealerships are the forward facing entity of any brand which is funny considering how they are somehow intrinsically linked while also being truly disassociated from the manufacture. I believe that many cars and brands live and die through their dealer network for a various amount of woeful reasons.
It's a very moot point lol, but they never did anything for me, as a discerning EVO reader and Supercar judger. Gave me the impression of a rather sterile, if very clever, technical exercise, with too many quality and reliability issues. If I were ever in a position to take a punt on something like this, you know it would an Italian, with all the emotion and history
Absolutely. McLaren seem to have a fatal mix of build issues and electronic integration that will turn them into bricks when tech moves on and people like Thorney inevitably pivot to something else. My rule is - go as classic analogue as possible or pay the premium to go with the tried and trusted higher end marques for the peace of mind with any follow ups. Trying the 'Porsche money for hypercar performance' 3rd way will just end in tears imo.
It appears McLarens are part human and part machine. Some days they don’t feel like getting out of bed. But I don’t have to worry, they’re completely beyond my means…..
This video is a darn good case study for anyone interested in sales and marketing in general and not just for supercars. That's not to say it wasn't a good 'watch' (or rather a 'listen' for me) but more about 'business' than 'cars'. Of course we don't have the whole picture but it shows that some very well paid people can make some really bad decisions. That is either because they thought it was a good idea (when it wasn't) or knew it was a bad idea but were influenced by external pressures. If you are on the receiving end of said bad decisions it doesn't matter in the slightest whether the former or the latter is the case it's how it effects you that matters.
I still want a GT, in black with the P1 style purple metal flake, and tan leather interior... a used one is not that far out of reach, which is a worry. Because if one showed tomorrow in the dream spec, I'd just have to take it home.
Very well articulated and informative.I just wish car sales people weren’t so arrogant, and even dishonest.Your reports on McLaren sales team attitude was so disappointing for a high end product.Others aren’t much better.Mercedes serviced my car and recorded 3 different grades of oil on the paperwork.When I travelled 150 miles to buy a Jaguar I pointed out to the dealer the mileage was 720 over that advertised, they said they would sell the car to someone else if I didn’t buy it ! BMW sold me a car with an oil leak in the turbo , told me the exhaust was black because of short journeys ! I haven’t owned a Porsche but I have the impression they are much better.
I would never buy a McLaren. The designs are generic and transformer-like. The interiors have absolutely no character. This brand can not compete with Ferrari.
Great video by the way - loved the detail and depth of the piece - excellent summary apart from not stating how revered and how stunning the 458 was when it was launched. Nothing compared to it plus its design was out of this world . Against that backdrop the MC 12 4C was launched with the stated goal of beating it - you couldn’t have a bigger task if you tried.
The model definition is diffuse and confusing. Yes, almost all car manufacturers have that problem since 2012 but it is bad here. Additionally, the brand and cars have a plastic image, just not "proper". No charisma, designed by committee.
Thanks for all the deets Jay! McClaren is a legend over here in the US but their problems are also well known. It really hurts my heart to see such mismanagement of what could be phenomenal 😢
This analysis is an outdated view. I’d have agreed once upon a time, but McLaren is a different animal now, and on the mend. I for one want to support their turn around.
I have a 720s, I've owned, built, and driven racecars & the 720 is quite a stunner as you might say, the performance is ridiculously good and given I've had some electrical anomalies I'd buy another one in a heartbeat. I do agree that owning one without a Factory warranty is quite scary. Also why they program everything in the car to the VIN number strikes me as they want the warranty work, at least my dealer seems to work that way. So you can spend lots more money with similar maintenance costs and purchase price of other supercars, or just buy a used one to get rid of some of the depreciation and buy the warranty.
I have never met someone who is passionate about McLaren. Maybe that's because, under Ron Dennis, McLaren was never a brand of passion... McLaren was a brand of OCD-level attention to detail. Unfortunately, the road cars McLaren builds are considerably off brand.
I am. The racing heritage, being a teen watching Lewis and Jenson, the big gap between the F1 and the MP4 12C and the way the F1 just imposed itself into history near immediately. Love them, through and through.
@jordanclark4635 1. I should have specified McLaren Automotive (I thought that was clear)... I have never met anyone who is passionate about McLaren Automotive. 2. The McLaren F1 stands alone in history, and has little to do with McLaren Automotive in its current guise. 3. The McLaren F1 team of today with its monstrous liveries and ugly cars is radically different to the MP4 era... There eras are connected only by the McLaren name.
@@HabitualLine-Stepper 1. The mention of Ron threw me off due to his association with F1 2. Yeah, but a lot of the engineers will have venerated the F1 and I think that shows, as James says, the issue is business and quality control, the the product design, largely 3. Brown was scouted by Dennis to get sponsorship for McLaren, before the power struggles, and owns multiple classic McLarens and has run them, never mind mclarens association with orange and papaya historically James’ critiques are valid… but McLaren are special
@jordanclark4635 1. McLaren existed before Ron Dennis took control and shaped it in his image... McLaren Automotive is all Ron Dennis, and his vanity project to outdo Mercedes road cars. 2. The Lexus LFA is more alligned with the Ron Dennis era McLaren brand than any car McLaren Automotive has ever produced... There is no Ferrari-esque passion for any McLaren Automotive car - the LaFerrari is now 4x the price of a P1. 3. Zak Brown was not "scouted" by Ron Dennis... He sold advertising/sourced sponsors on behalf of multiple F1/racing teams and made a lot of money... McLaren F1 was his passion, so he acquired lots of McLaren racing cars.
I'm glad I saw this video. Was just on my way out to buy a McLaren. Not a real purchase, but certainly the window shop and daydream version of a real purchase
Your comment about people not wanting one resonates with me. I see one and love the shape, I love the potential numbers they are capable of and yet if anyone asks me one brand of sports or supercar I wouldn't own it's McLaren. .... And I own a Maserati 😅
Ron Dennis had OCD and was a major control freak. That was eventually his downfall, but also the reason for his success. I cannot imagine McLaren being allowed to have such bad quality control if he were there.
Hi James, firstly great videos I’ve been following your channel for many years. I’m one of the people who very much wanted the GT model and I think it’s a great car. I owned my first McLaren in 2018 an 18 month old 570s from McLaren in Manchester it was far from a good experience and after 5 months of ownership they took the car back. Since then I’ve followed the media and I believe that they have improved both the product and the customer service hence I now own a 73 plate GT which I believe offers a superior experience as a road car to the other McLaren cars. Are McLaren really the only manufacturer that have quality issues, not in my book. Keep up the great work, hoping Woking offer you a long term car 👍
"in general and my opinion is forged from a mixture of my own experiences those of the people that I know and also my gut feeling" - And what a magnificent gut it is James ;)
After the F1 I think all of their models are mediocre at best in design. They all have that kind of generic supercar look, and when I look at one, I feel like it was just brought to life from GTA Online. I don't really feel their design language... 😕
@@staLkerhu Disagree. I saw a 720S in Cheltenham and it looked awesome. Performance as good as an F1 and a more stylish (and different) design. The F1 is in a different league, like some Ferrari 250s are in a different league to the Daytona (like 10 x the value or more)!
I have a few friends that have McLaren... Car is in the shop 70% of the time. They used to come to touring events a lot when they had GT-Rs or Porsche..
I spent a day in my colleagues 650S back when they were relatively new. We ran into issues all day with it, including something as simple as being unable to unlock and open the fuel door! Not long after that day, the windscreen cracked in half (no stone chips or any sign of it coming), but supposedly that was a common issue too...
Forgot your a great communicator, and educator. Great vids, wasted a couple spits of my pint trying to watch! So funny. Btw you may be simple but ya made me chuckle. 🍻
Yes, the last one he recommended buying one, after the video before that he scared everybody off the brand with the failed suspension bolts palaver…strange.
@@DavidDatura He is doing this for his channel's growth. We click and watch and his channel grows. He is not doing this as an informational push or out of the goodness of his heart.
As a person who can just afford a car, food and internet, a few months ago I found myself missing the old mp4-12c. I'm always looking at news or TH-cam car related stuff and wondered what happened to that car. Well this video sums it up 😅
@@camilstoenescu a lot of these problems around cost cutting and build quality can be attributed to cheaper cars too, but those are always excused because they are lower price. If you want to see a culture change, you have to start at the top and work down, otherwise when you try and make them change, they can always fall back on "well (more expensive car) does it".
Harry Metcalf was allowed to test a 750S recently. Took it all the way to south of France (whether he drove it back to Blighty, I don’t remember) and he seemed to love the thing! And didn’t mention having any issues with it either. Was he lucky enough to get a good’n? Or are McLaren on the mend? 🤷♂️
we need a full run down of McLaren ownership, something similar to the Porsche engines video. Most common models, most common catastrophes and how to avoid them are parts purchasable and available outside the dealer network and can they be worked and programmed outside it as well this could be a good start. I know understood that for the price no other car with carbon tubs and insane performance comes near.
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The thing that really set me off on McLaren is the fact that the engine has pencil thin cast parts in the rotating assembly. Tavarish's engine failure in his 675LT is what really drove home to me the money issue where McLaren are charging $90k for engines that don't even have a forged rotating assembly like the $18k engine in my Camaro ZL1 or titanium rods like my Corvette Z06. Before I start sounding like I am beholden to a singular brand I should point out that I never see cast rods in Lamborghini or Ferrari engines either. People are popping engines even on the stock tune on some of these cars and at this price level thats unnacceptable.
TVR called- they want their business model back.
McLaren did just licensed it, payed through the nose for it probably, just before TVR was over...
As an onlooker on British cars for many years, I really like them. TVRs looked amazing, McLaren's also look amazing. The dealer network and quality shoots them in the foot every time. I wish the brit's where more patriotic and kept the £££'s in the the country. Your NEVER hear of Germans / Italians saying there brands are toilet, stay away, must do better...
TVR Tuscan 🔥
😂
bit of the ghost of British Leyland too.
My first two kids had McLaren’s, great robust things, roof came down easy, plenty of shopping space, hard brakes, great steering and so easy to push.
😂
So funny
I always found them a bit squeaky and not good keeping the rain out.
😂
I found them uncomfortable to sit in.
I don’t understand how you can talk for 40 minutes without it sounding boring. I watched the whole thing. True communication skills.
@@MrzxSnipe exactly!
Agreed, brilliant car content.
He worked in TV in his past career, I'm sure that's where he learnt the talk from.
It’s called “the gift of gab”
But Bashing The car he’s driving and bigs up the cars he owns namely Ferrari. Fawns over Porsche but kicks the McLaren
Incredible that companies will still find ways to cost cut on products with price tags like these. The short sightedness is astounding.
Project Drive for supercars. Lovely.
It's not incredible: everything built to the thousands will have cost cutting to match a price tag, in the same logic an endurance race car will be as light and economical as possible because one tenth quicker every lap means minutes off the whole race time
@@roelfkromhout the cheap hose clips are inexcusable
As Jeremy Clarkson basically once said: McClaren has everything.... but a sense of humour.
@@adrianbennett3761 or the flimsy connecting rods.
Like, that’s what I mean. On a multiple hundreds of thousands pound car, those should be forged items.
On McLarens quality issues. I applied for a job at McLaren machining the tubs for the cars. I didn’t even get an interview because I didn’t have a degree even though I’m a qualified mechanical engineer with 20 years experience working in aerospace industry and was told that they only taking on 40:53 students with degrees. Anyone who has worked in engineering knows that most graduates have no hands on experience and can’t even use a set of verniers 😂
Get off your high horse, we can use verniers. Your dinosaur skills aren’t needed especially when they come laced with spite and derogatory ageist comments. “Qualified” - who “qualified” you… yourself?
@syedmrzaidi0 I worked as a CNC machinist, and manual machinist. Then went to university and got a degree in computer science.
In my experience, on average, I've found the apprentice trained engineers to be more effective, pragmatically skilled and useful in the workplace than most students.
I've witnessed first hand, apprentice programmers run rings around 1st class hons students.
A degree is not a substitute for work experience no matter how badly students want it to be true.
@@tomfox747 Common sense yet McLaren HR or its management can't comprehend. It figures
@@tomfox747 I'm an engineering manager. There's a place for both. Practical experience doesn't just apply to workmanship, it also applies to the scientific method, statistical analysis, structured problem solving, change documentation. Ultimately a really effective engineer can get by without even touching the equipment they're responsible for (I would never recommend it but I've seen it). The hands-on people generally don't know everything there is to know about the process, but they're relied upon to do basic to advanced equipment troubleshooting. The very best engineers can do both but that's rare and ultimately they'll be pulled away from hands-on as their career progresses. There's a marked difference in people who worked part time jobs as children - They are always better workers and more adaptable, regardless of speciality.
@@-BuddyGuy yeah fair enough. I would agree with your entire statement really.
Question, have a disproportionate number of students been trained for office/design/management roles in comparison to the number required, whereas has there been an under training of the practically skilled workforce?
Reduced down to, too many thinkers not enough do-ers?
A friend of mine was quality manager at McLaren for many years and he and many colleagues became more and more frustrated with the continued drive by shareholders and leadership to drive up sales volume at the expense of testing and quality. A whole tranche of the best people left to join Gordon Murray.
It was gut feeling that made me buy a Fiesta ST instead of a McLaren 720s. Something like that anway.
As Jeremy Clarkson basically once said: McClaren has everything.... but a sense of humour.
Yet now he drives one
@@LorraineHinchliffe-vg5cb Not true. They must have a sense of humour to be the way they are........but laughing at the customers expense !!!!
True story; a close friend worked on Macca on QC for the Senna. They had a call to get a customer car signed off in 48 hours and the seats were still in Italy somewhere….. their answer?… hire a private jet from Farnborough and collect them circa £30k round trip 🤷🏻♂️…. My suggestion was to walk into the canteen and say “ do any of you lads want a road trip to Italy in a transit van over the weekend and all expenses paid… just be back here Monday at 8am or you’re fired”… cost?… £3k max. That’s an F1 attitude on a Ford budget and one of the reasons they haven’t made as much profit as they should 😵💫
That is certainly bigger than a medium oof... 🥶
Surrey to Italy is roughly 20hrs, each way. So actually quite difficult to do that in 48hrs
After watching this I thought the story was going to be get the apprentice to drive to halfords and pick up a set of bucket seats haha
@@jonathanedwards8913have two drivers taking turns driving, 8 hours sleep in Italy and then back again. Worse has been done.
@@jonathanedwards8913 You fly to Italy on a commerical flight. Hire a car. Drive to the factory. Collect the seats. Box them up. Drive to the airport. Fly home on a commerical flight. Jobs a good un'. You probably don't even have an overnight stay. All in for 2k. Simple.
Just took delivery of my 1st McLaren a few months ago; a 750S Spyder and I am blown away. It’s scores an 11 out 10 in every aspect of the driving experience: seating position, handling, power, exhaust sound, steering feel, engagement, gearbox, visibility, usability, practicality, system interface, AC, sound system, the list goes on. The down side for me is the fuel range, and how the passenger seatbelt warning comes on every time I place my phone on the passenger seat.
The 750S has minor software gremlins and built quality issues .. but - so far - a lot less than the Ferrari’s I owned.
Good to hear. I am torn between a Temerario or the 750s. I would rather get pure ICE, but I also want reliability...
My exact same experience with my McLaren, it has been the most reliable and cheapest to fix supercar I have ever owned by a large margin.
Hi from Canada. I bought an Artura back in Feb 2023. Was looking for a Ferrari but had a miserable experience with their dealer. Anyway, McLaren Toronto dealership treated me like a human so I upgraded from a 911 guy. I had quite a few issues with the Artura along the way BUT ultimately the dealership and HQ made my car perfect. It is my daily and for the last 12 months problem free. It’s an incredible car to drive and the brand treats me like a human. Always ensuring my experience and happiness comes first.
Just want to say that the Artura is a great daily driver, a great super car and the brand is fantastic.
I disagree with you that McLaren is not listening. They are and they build the best drivers cars today. Porsche is now about making money and their cars are not as exciting. Their prices now are astronomical and their service is no different than BMW. McLaren is definitely at a much higher orbit.
That’s my opinion which is different than yours. But mine is coming from being an owner for nearly 2 years.
Sadly not every owner shares your experience. Herein lies the problem.
Interesting 🤔
With all due respect you're dealing with Chris Green McLaren Toronto who's one of the best McLaren GMs in the world. You also probably went to Ferrari of Ontario which is also in turn one of the worst Ferrari Dealers in North America. Please imagine how your experience would be if you didn't experience those two polarizing dealers that are literally a few meters apart.
Porsches were never meant to be "exiciting", lol. Theyre the japanese of the super car world. They just work. And with that said, their cars, the track focused ones, they're way more exciting and visceral than anything McL put on the road since the F1. McLarens feel and sound hollow. I know you want to feel good about your buy but sorry, the automotive world doesnt share your view. And no, you being an owner doesnt give more value to your opinion, it actually removes due to the implied bias.
BTW, youre moaning about Porsche prices being astronomical yet you bought a McLaren? Are you kidding us?
It seems that dealers are the make or break part of the ownership experience for exotics.
Wow James you can’t win can you?! Damned if you do damned if you don’t.
You praised McLaren in the last video and qualified the praise with reasons why. All of which I felt were well articulated and objectively presented. Bear in mind your points were specific to the 720s that you drove.
This video gives an overview of the whole company ethos, business practice (questionable practice at that) and where you feel the company is going wrong. Again all well articulated and objective.
It seems some commenters can’t discern that you’re not a MacLaren hater and fail to see objective analysis as anything other than hate! The joys of the TH-cam commentators! 😂
Yeah people will make up their opinion of me and you can never dissuade them!
@@JayEmmOnCars
Fair enough which is why I respect the fact that you simply put out your opinion and leave it at that.
@@DuvJones it’s not opinion when it’s backed up by facts though is it?
@@MIK23458
Well that's something the company is going to have to change now isn't it, they might not like it but Jay's opinion here is not an isolated incident. People have been saying the same things (if worse) about the company's road cars for years, and have been keeping receipts on it.
Do you expect people to engage positively with a video that starts by talking about Artura losing money per car sold? When quite clearly that years posting including investment into up-coming platforms? That is nothing but a youtuber take for controversy on a video, it is a very weird thing to say, is it not?
I loved my 12C. 3 years and 14k miles. Went all over Europe in it, used it lots. It had some issues, BUT they were all sorted under warranty. In fact, in 3 years, it cost me nothing over and above the services (which were about £900 each). When I sold it, it had deprecated £10k. In total, including depreciation and warranty costs. It worked out at £1.13 per mile.
I replaced it with a 981 spyder. That car I had for 18 months and 8k miles, total cost £1.56 per mile. I also bought an F355 GTS manaul which broke down more than any other car I have owned (with the exception of an M635csi) and ended up at £2.13 per mile.
As my 12C was cheaper to run, more economical, comfier, more reliable and much much faster than its replacements, I bought a 675LT.
I have now had that car almost 5 years and 15k miles. It has never let me down, it has no warranty and the last service was £495 at V engineering. It remains the best car I have ever driven, it is so exciting, so fast, has so much traction. Its beautiful, its British and I Love it. It will never be sold.
I now have a 718 spyder too, which is a wonderful car but there is no comparison to the 675LT or 12C.
McLaren do have customer relations issues BUT that's the management. The engineers & designers are amongst the best in the world and make wonderful, amazing cars.
My Alfa 159 cost me £3.10 per mile lol
Bravo 👍
Dammit! I want a McLaren, then don't, then do, then don't. And this comment makes me want one, until I read the next one.
@Spenny909 just get a 650s, most reliable, get it inspected and get a warranty for the 1st year in case any niggles do need sorting. V engineering will look after you all the way, they really are amazing. The sports series have door, corrosion and electrical gremlins but they really got the 650/675 all sorted 👍🏻
What a superb review . Well out Sir
I still want one , you don’t scare me! The aftercare scares me though !! 😂
What aftercare? 😀
In this way McLaren ownership is a very BDSM like experience
Do you want one? Because I’ll be honest I came THIS close to buying one but when I was looking at my hard earned money and more money to spend after that (also I’m not ober rich just okay) I kinda chickened out and bought a Bentley instead. And I own two TVRS so unreliability is okay by me but unreliable and expensive ??? I couldn’t bring myself to do it
Two years into a 720 spider. Fastest thing on the road, this side of 750k. Only issue so far being a door strut. Service at Leeds, use regularly. Stunning and would buy another in a heartbeat . If I had the cash, a 765 but can’t afford nor justify one! Can’t imagine what to replace it with.
As to brake pedal pressing for start. It is a safety feature. Wants to ensure system is pressurised before starting. Easier to pump once and then press brake
You’re welcome to it. I’m sticking with Porsche.
The MP4-12c is the poster child of “Ugly in print, stunning in person”. Looked so plain in magazines but had stunning proportions in real life.
Next to the 720s & 765LT I think it’s the best looking now. I never could get into the “alien bubble” look when the 570’s started. I still want an MP4-12c today and I feel like it’s only a matter of time before some enthusiast figures out creative ways to deal with their common electrical/mechanical issues.
Compared to the issues the P1s have with hybrid batteries, the MP4-12c seems like an easy fix 😂
In 1998, McLaren bought up a UK audio company called Audiolab. Audiolab had a great reputation in the audio world. McLaren announced big plans. They introduced audio-visual home cinema equipment that could be upgraded as new audio standards were introduced (like Dolby digital etc). I bought into this great plan. 5 years later the great plan was dead. McLaren closed down their audio operations, and all their customers were left with expensive AV boxes that would never get to see the promised continued developments & upgrades. Organisation that do things like that in their past make me nervous about buying anything from them in future.
@@TheLDunn1 Audiolab was a very respectable audio company indeed.
So Ron Dennis wasn’t a great business man? Times have changed with new ownership
Don't buy on promises. Buy based on what they currently offer because "promises" are likely bullshit.
Audiolab was bought by IAG in 2004 and is doing very well
@@alexanderstefanov6474 yeah, I know, & am pleased about that, and I was specifically referring to products and direction which McLaren declared and were heading in during their tenure of Audiolab.
Best 40 minute ad Porsche never produced.
6th year into ownership of 570 spider. Yes it has niggles. My dealer (Ascot) has been actually been very good on bodywork and door hinge issues. Did Macca corporate annoy the feck out of me at Goodwood by not letting me into their VIP area to see an Artura… yes 🤬… did I storm over to Lotus and put £5000 deposit on new Emira?… yes. 🤦🏻♂️ Do I have other cars?, yes a California T for touring and a GR Yaris for track, but is the 570 a joy to drive quickly on the Isle on Man mountain pass and Silverstone?…. My god Yes, YES, Y-E-S (in a Meg Ryan kinda way 😜)…
Good morning James; I've never owned a McLaren; the closest I came was a test drive with a friend who wanted my opinion before he bought one. It broke down on test when a hose gave out. Somehow, according to the dealer, that was my fault! Apparently I didn't know how to drive a supercar....erm. One lost sale. The friend's broken ankle has healed, and he now owns, and loves, a Ferrari.
He broke his ankle on the test drive???
I am fortunate enough to have a few cars and having listened to the bad reviews dismissed Mc Laren. I bought a 720s with 3000 miles in 2020. A year old car that had depreciated by 40%. I’ve taken it around Europe and travelled 22,000 miles in it. It’s never let me down however a spring broke whilst abroad,the suspension needle a rebuild with a common fault. Bits have fallen off such as the door handle and the windows sometimes are a law unto themselves whilst locking however I absolutely enjoy every minute behind the wheel and the incredible performance more than compensates for any shortcomings.I bought a new 992 turbo S which has had more problems and it takes two months to book an appointment in service. As your daily,probably not,as a consideration at current price levels absolutely. I would recommend. Great content Mr Jayemm.
I have had numerous caymans, 991.2 GT3RS, now own a 992 GT3 and 2020 600LT. All were/are heavily tracked, I am way faster around the track in the 600LT than any Porsche product I’ve owned including the 992 GT3. As for reliability and running costs, I’ve had my fair share of problems with Porsche, but the problem is, whenever my McLaren has a problem it’s way more expensive to fix for not as quality of a product. What was recently really annoying about my 600LT is I’ve had a faulty battery and it was almost $6K to replace because of the IBS module that’s built into the battery…. And although the battery held a charge, the IBS malfunctioned. Since that is connected to the battery it wasn’t covered under the McLaren ESC warranty… otherwise the 600LT is faultless on track and off.
I might just be lucky, but I bought the much derided GT in Papaya spark orange 1 year ago, and it has been pretty much perfect. I have now driven nearly 4000 miles including a trip to Germany and it hasn’t skipped a beat. Fantastic performance, great comfort and when you settle down on a motorway it will easily do 30mpg. It might not be the prettiest car in the range but the amount of attention it garners with people wanting to have a photo taken with it is extraordinary and something I have never experienced with the many Porsche`s I have owned. The price I paid which was before the general slump in the market was a scarcely believable £130K for a 7 month old car with a 3 year service pack included. Given you can buy a 4 year old one today for £90K, I cannot think of anything that comes close to the drama, performance and presence at that money. I agree that McLaren have screwed up the market and caused this depreciation but they now limit the cars flow into the market. With the GT they clearly managed the market to make sure in the UK there were never more than 30 used examples for sale. Buy wisely from a trusted source and have a realistic budget for ongoing costs and you will be getting a bargain.
To be completely fair, for any normal car, and I would argue, something this expensive should be much the same, 4000 miles is not a long time. That’s about 2 months use for my daily driver!
I sincerely hope your car continues to be trouble free and you have a lovely time with it though.
*I don't see it as McLaren bashing, these things have to be made known - in the long run it will help McLaren*
I remember the Top Gear episode with three supercars. One was the 12c. I remember James may explain how every part was designed to perfection. I felt so pleased we had a supercar that worked and was brilliant, something to aspire to other than a Porsche. We'll, that didn't work out too well. I now drive a Porsche.
James I do not understand why you are not invited on their press launches.
read the title
@@yama-fanboy🤦🏻♂️
@@yama-fanboy Look up 'sarcasm'.
Call me old fashioned, but I always like when a motoring journalist gives a shout out to another fellow journalist. Props.
@@rgt33 Thank you, I've seen excerpts from it but I'll go watch the full thing on your recommendation.
@@harpersneilthe full episode is definitely worth the watch. As is Mr Harris book worth the read if you haven’t already.
I hear what you're saying but the 458 Italia and 488 weren't great, they were too soft in the rear, both were "fixed" to some degree with the Speciale and the Pista. I "lucked out" with my McLaren 720S, bought from new its been outstanding and in Mantis Green it really stands out. The McLaren experience is dealer specific, also if you deal with MSO they're outstanding. I suspect you're dealing with cars that have been passed on to some degree - in the UK lots of dealers behave very poorly toward customers and cars alike, many have no idea how to look after a McLaren. What I do agree with is, Mclaren should be all over these issues. Best service I've had is with Ferrari, by a long way. Porsche is now very hit and miss, service centres, since the advent of Macan, have become terrible. PS the 600LT is an outstanding car. Of the many great cars I have owned the keepers have been 720S, 991.2 GT3 RS, 296 GTB and 600LT. The real issue is, fundamentally the British workforce DGAF and neither does the management - thats why major industries failed in the UK and continue to fail to this day. Its not McLaren specific, Mclaren is simply a manifestation of the underlying problem. This is simple, people are paying for a product, they expect it to work and be fit for purpose - if it doesn't meet expectations they get rid of it and buy a reliable product. If you're workforce doesn't understand this your company doesn't deserve the custom. Period.
I would humbly suggest, McLaren production staff are far removed from British Leyland production.
..
James mentioned poor cheap hose clips being used, that's a management issue not a staff issue..?
No doubt there's disgruntled employees, that's not reflective of the whole workforce..
..
@@stuartd9741 Agreed, this is both a management and production staff issue. You can have a great finance team and design team but if you don't have a good delivery and execution team it causes real problems.
oh christ, you got there in the end. Blame it on the Unions. Oh there isn't one
@@evanjohn503 I said the British workforce DGAF and they don't. Bad attitude and has been that way for a long time. If you buy a product it has to be fit for purpose and the customer has the absolute right for remedy if there is a problem and replacement if the problem doesn't get fixed. My 720S has been excellent as has my 600LT in BC. Others have had lots of problems - for what its worth I found the same with Lotus having owned a 380 and Cup 430. Had problems with both, in the end you give up with manufacturers that don't stand with their products and won't fix QAQC issues.
JayEmm for McLaren CEO (or at least consultant advisor). An external, no-nonsense viewpoint seems to be what they could most use right now.
Do you mean McLaren?
@@maccyp1824 Thank you. Now corrected.
Superb James, a detailed breakdown of a company without fear of being blackballed by them, I doubt many journalists would have the balls to expose them in such detail. 👏👏
We Bristish just like our cars to work........ i spat out my coffee at that point. And I say that as a previous and current owner of many british cars.
Well to be fair liking something and being able to achieve it are two different things.
@@craigmoy5428 Yeah, over the history of the British motor car, since when? 😂😢
We British do like it…..which is why we buy German
As the disparaged American, I gave the Tommy Lee Jones look from "No country for old men." You can't possibly be serious?
@@TimLemonn More like Toyota. Germans dining out on past glories.
My biggest problem with McLaren is I can't tell any of the models apart, despite being a "car guy". They all look the same. It's weird how they don't seem to understand that model differentiation is as important as brand differentiation. Porsche knows this. Ferrari does, too. Same with Lambo's. If I spent that much $ on a car, I want it to look like I did. That's the point of spending that much lucre.
@@TheJohn8765 🤣😂🤣 Porsche know it?? that’s very funny. Every Porsche for years has been on the same platform and they keep the heritage design. If you line up 20 Porsches and walk across the front they ALL look the same. They also have many different types which look the same, forgetting the older stuff you have .
They were all named in the video, all pretty much look the same. 🤷♂️
@@TheJohn8765 so it's not just me...
It has never been my fav marque so I thought maybe I just couldn't tell the models apart because I wasn't paying much attention. They do all look very similar to me and the naming convention doesn't help much.
You did not just seriously bring up Porsche as an example of cars that don't all look the same. You have got to be kidding me
If you thinks porsches look the same, then you need your eyes checked out
@@ADITYAMISHRA-h7g To the untrained eye, yes they do. The front of a Porsche has looked very similar for years, that’s there thing.
McLaren may have its issues but you sir are an automotive storyteller of the finest quality. That was one heck of a narrative journey. 👌
I used to call it the mclaren dance for the non recognition of the key. I had an early 570s I lasted a year and had to sell it was so poorly built. The firewall detached and was sitting on the frame. Every possible fault would happen. Car couldn't be washed without a fault happening. So sad I loved it the few days it worked
My first McLaren was the 540C and reason for purchase was price over say the 458. I drive from Adelaide, South Australia to Thredbo, New South Wales, approx 1200km one way on flat roads until reaching the Aussie alps. The first trip I took was not through the desolate part of Australia (with zilch phone signal) but rather a longer journey where I was predominantly in phone range (forum comments of McLaren reliability caused this longer trip). The whole trip was awesome, the economy was great and comfort wise a gem. I then proceeded to trade up to a 720S and have completed the same trip without fault. The sections of snow in the mountains around Thredbo meant I had to use snow socks from Goodyear Canada (chains won't fit) and again both cars ploughed through the snow with ease. The front lift takes time in comparison to a Porsche and the infotainment takes some getting use to.......otherwise a happy customer here. The dealer in Adelaide is amazing and looks after the customer.
We have a road here in West Auckland ,New Zealand ,Bruce McLaren Road named after our Kiwi Hero also have a school named after him as well ,Theres a Mclaren dealership on Great North Roade Aucvkland and the best car i saw there was Ayrton Sennas Honda /Mclaren turbo FI car from the 80s
I could listen to you talk all day. It's always interesting, no needless repetition, and your sense of humour I can appreciate.
I’ve had a 540c for 6 years
Won’t sell it as it’s not worth much but nothing comes close for the money hence I’ve kept it
Have never bought another one simply because of issues like the one JayEmm explains first up.
I remember the press releases at the time of the Iris system. They had all these stupid ideas like making the hardware dual redundant in case something failed. Hardware failures almost never happen, software is another matter. Ironically all attempts at dual redundancy make the software far more complicated and more likely to fail. To top it off, dual redundancy can only overcome hardware faults. If the software is faulty, then no matter how many instances are running, they will all fail.
I worked for McLaren several years ago for just over 3 years.
The management was terrible, they treated engineers like part numbers and expected them to work extreme hours.
Cars left the site with trims missing and other defects, that was the norm.
McLaren spends money like there's no tomorrow on events for cystomers and sales, the sales team are milking it.
I will not shed a tear when they go burst and are sold and goes over seas to some place like Dubai.
@@_TheStealth just out of curiosity. What did you do whilst you worked there?
This man is *brilliant* The absolute best auto commentary / review show on the planet... Beautiful "wordsmithing" mixed with perfect camera angles, and awesome drive by's. --Perfection.
I have a friend who worked at McLaren and he hated it. He worked at the HQ as well, he even said he didn't leave on good terms. Didn't shake any hands on his way out. I think their cars have so much potential, but potential that maybe hasn't been reached.
He told me cars were being made and engineers forgetting to put any oil in the engines. So many McLaren's caught fire that it became a meme. I've had another friend who bought a 12C and a week later a coolant hose popped and the entire car went up in steam. He sold it immediately. Car only had 5,000 miles on it.
Another friend had his glass engine cover randomly shatter.
When the GT came out, everyone I know was confused by its existence.
When the Speedtail came out, I happened to be working at a detailing company that did PPF on many new high end cars. Speedtails were coming in a lot and going wrong simply from being jet washed.
Idk man I'd just be scared to go near one. Sounds like you shouldn't buy a McLaren unless you can afford 2 of them.
Hoovie's Garage went thru an engine and a tranny in the time he owned it (6 months, I think). Thankfully, he had an extended warranty. No way would I buy a McLaren. Their components, tho high performance, seem to be super stressed to get there. Hard nope from me (not that I can afford one).
It was the senior directors on weighty LTIP programs. Long term incentive plan. Post 2008 crisis the annual bonus became a rolling 3 year bonus for the big guys. So all they had to do was get a massive bonus after 3 years graft and then when it dried up they moved on. Leaving a mess but a string of ok sales records but little else.
Pump and dump. Classic used car salesmans. Screw everyone else. I got mine!
So fair to say, the past the top of Mcl were not necessarily brand ambassadors, or enthusiasts,
Not invested in the long term prospects of the company?
This is not unusual in a lot of big businesses. New ceo comes along with their ideas…..takes a while for their ideas to be shown to go disastrously wrong by which time ceo leaves, a new ceo comes along and it’s Groundhog Day.
@@stephenbland7461 exactly that. So long as they can keep it moving along for a few years with various trickery they get their bonus. Sadly this was forcing through cars they knew weren’t right just for numbers to present to the board
Harry M is a canny old chap...650S seems a decent choice ?
It’s a top spec MSO one with loads of options and expensive Amethyst paint
@@adrianbennett3761 and was a demo/press car, so was gone through with a fine comb
Exactly. Some commenters here think Harry has a magic wand to find the only car with no issues. He doesn’t he trusts the brand and doesn’t listen to the haters
@@MW-uy3np 650s was a model with very few issues, it was an MSO car with a high specification including Amethyst paint. Watched the Thorney videos and got it at a really good price
A friend had a 650s for about 3 years before just selling it recently. Apart from the battery (he didn’t have it on a charger, but we got it charged eventually all OK) it never missed a beat. Very good car I would say.
I am a Porsche guy, never owned a Mclaren, but a Porsche guy friend of mine made the leap, after a year and a half of problems with the transmission, and the threat of invoking the Lemmon law in my state, the dealer offered a full price trade for an Aston Martin that the dealer also sold. He has never been happier. It’s like a boat, the happiest two days are the day you get it and the day you get rid of it.
Porsche is corporate and a bit boring, but they bloody work.
@@JohnFromAccounting They still have a lot of issues, but they have a far better dealer network.
@@JohnFromAccounting there was always a huge debate from every side about which car is the best. Well, the best car is the one that works at least most of the time, and requires very little to do that. Also, calling Porsche boring is something only an englishman would do with their fancy *ss attitude and national superiority combined. Maybe the Panamera and their SUVs are nothing special, but calling a 911, Boxster or Cayman boring is hysterical laugh fuel... 😂
One of the first things my (excellent) sales person told me on my 720S delivery day.... "Sometimes you have to press the brake pedal fairly hard to trigger the start interlock". Done and done.
My other comment would be that perhaps when you live in the land of lots of boring roads and roundabouts, things like "theatrical exhaust sound" become more important, but the Mclarens are built as drivers cars... and when you're ripping through canyons and twisties, top-down in a super-stiff-chassis Mclaren spider having more fun than any other street car you've ever driven, you aren't thinking "ah... I'd rather be in a car with more theatrical sound but without this feel, without this performance, without this capability..."
Bruh there are loads of amazing roads in the UK. Also what is the point of a supercar if not to look and sound good?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, James.
My experiences and thoughts nearly match yours after driving several examples (12C, 675LT, P1). I was interested and wanted to buy a McLaren but as an enthusiast in Ohio (hundreds of miles away from a dealership) and the experiences of family members that have them kept me away from the brand. They are incredible machines and absolutely loved driving them!
My coworker and I rented one (2019 570S Spider) in 2019 for 24 hours. It had an occasional knocking sound on the right rear side, but to this day, I have never driven anything faster. The next closest was a C8 Corvette, but it's build quality and nagging issues posted by owners kept me away. Last year, I bought a 45th Anniversary GR Supra in Mikan Blast color. Really, it is almost as exclusive as a supercar. Only 450 were made in that color. I am thus far very happy with it.
I'm gonna go ahead and say Shareholders. Usually the source of all bag fumbling in an up-to-then well functioning business, due to their pursuits of personal short-term bags.
You don't know much about financials then. Share holders do not pursue short term gains at the expense of the overall functioning of the business as that is self defeating. Shareholders either want an increase in the share price (called unrealized gain) or an increase in the amount the company pays them per share per year and/or a decrease in dividend yield (since a smaller dividend yield means a healthier company). Both of these are long term, though you can also benefit from short term share price growth.
Indeed most shareholders prefer dividend yield, since it is a zero effort and roughly zero risk method of making money. It's why bluechip stocks are so coveted, you are not going to make any short term profit off of them as they've essentially reached the limits of their potential for massive short term growth, but they're not likely to decrease in value either and offer you good dividends. Getting a company you have invested into to blue chip status is the ideal for a shareholder, especially for a large institutional shareholder like a bank.
In the past maybe it was possible that the shareholders' short sightedness that caused all of these problems. But since McLaren is now fully owned by the Bahrain SWF, I hope that the direction and the decisions made for the company is more long-term oriented just like how Lawrence Stroll is currently running Aston Martin.
Controversial: I’d like to see a Japanese or Korean manufacturer come in and buy McLaren so they have a feather in their cap - run them like a proper car company and improve quality, but let McLaren remain in charge of design and performance
Imagine how Lotus would be had they teamed up with Toyota, too.
I mean, we've seen what happens when McLaren and Honda worked together (and actually stayed in their lanes) in the 90s. The second time around wasn't so productive, but I think most put that on McLaren given Honda's subsequent success with RBR.
nah, its china time
@hertzwave8001 eh, Geely has been mediocre with Lotus. Not sure if Chinese brands are ready for LFA-level halo cars.
@@LapoftheWorld Most people would be completely wrong then... The Honda PU McLaren was using was woefully underpowered & unreliable, it literally couldn't harvest/deploy electrical power for a sustained period, it was such a poor PU that McLaren couldn't see the deficiencies in their chassis. It was only when Honda changed the manager of the F1 PU unit that things started improving but by then McLaren had already pulled the plug,
I'm on my 2nd 650s spider over 5 years. Wouldn't change for anything else. Except maybe a right-hand drive P1 (spider), so that's not happening. Not even for a 488 spider (50+k more). No warranty required so long as proper thorough PDI with a knowledgeable aftermarket specialist, of which there are now a few. (Thorney, V-Engineering being superb). Do your research well prior to buying. Get an *independent* PDI (even when buying from dealer). Avoid the stealership network (some are good, just many are not) and charge £x2 of independents. However, even with major breakages the good independents know how to spot and fix stuff. Yes the brand and company are shockingly bad at looking after customers. But the products can be awesome. Have had more problems with my BMW than either McLaren.
Great post. I’ve never owned or driven a McLaren but as an F355 owner I also get tired of the same comments about Ferrari ownership. Same rules apply when buying irrespective of the marque. Pass on anything that isn’t a low mileage, few owner car that hasn’t been driven regularly and maintained by a specialist. Get an independent full PDI done and find a good specialist to maintain it annually.
IMO I can’t see why a McLaren, Ferrari or any other exotic car is any less reliable than anything else if those simple rules are followed. In the five years I’ve owned my car, she’s run like a Swiss watch.
Hope you are still enjoying driving your 650. Awesome car.
@sultanoftippoo3857 "I cannot see why any exotic would be less reliable..." sometimes it is the owner to blame. They would miss on essential maintenance or, for example, run the car through deep water, and say it is the manufacturer at fault. Cars treated like this are usually ones that have depreciated a lot and are bought by people wanting to spend less on a performance car. The cars will go to non specialists and will be driven without warm up and cool downs and potential issues like perished valves will go unnoticed.
@@Spenny909 100% agree, there’s no accounting for a stupid owner.
That’s why I specifically mentioned looking for a car with a low number of owners who run the car regularly and take it to be properly maintained by a specialist.
You can never eliminate the risk of a previous owner who abuses any car but that’s true whether it’s a Toyota or a Bugatti but the things I mentioned in my original post hopefully reduce the odds of someone buying a lemon no matter what the marque is.
Great video, many of the reasons I’ve discounted having a McLaren (at least for now) mentioned.
The second hand values make them an interesting proposition, particularly in the light of more independent specialists popping up to add choice on the maintenance front.
i saw a Mclaren at our local track GT Club it spanked those Porsche GT3s then drove home. Was lapping them.
11:07 Now THAT sounds superb to my ears! McLarens also look spectacular, hyper modern and purposeful. I'd also guess that their choice of a smaller turbo assisted engine preempted what was coming with all the EU regs being forced upon car manufacturers. But you are SO right about their desperate need to sort out their customer service in certain areas of the UK. Spending house money on a car should guarantee PERFECT customer service, if not then repeat custom will disappear. As McLaren is British I am 100% behind it!
Thank you james
Well that was very informative, but now all I want to do is take my 540c ( with Larini exhaust ) for a drive through the hills ❤ it’s an unmatched driving experience and my experience with other brands is extensive, thanks Jay
Possibly one of TH-cam’s best intros ever. I was howling. Great stuff James.
Jay going scorched Earth on McLaren! Some very valid criticisms fairly pointed out. If only McLaren would now listen....
I love these long topic videos. Great work by a highly skilled orator.
Jay, you are fast becoming one of my top five youtube channels. Top job. Totally agree, if you don't look after your customers you will fall faster than a supercar. John...
It's notoriously difficult to get a good exhaust song after some turbos have been fitted. The McLaren Automotive story is remarkable in that it starts off with Ron Dennis' ocd, and then becomes British Leyland's nfg. I do hope they get their act together though!
If it’s any consolation my Ferrari won’t always go into 1st if I am not pressing the brake hard enough. Embarrassing at traffic lights!
he wouldn't mention that about a Ferrari just a maclaren
@@rossross8224Jay does appear to have a massive downer on McLaren and wheels out a video at any opportunity to continue to do so… many McLaren owners came from Porsche and Ferrari and spoke of problems with those cars, the dealers, expensive repairs etc but the Germans and Italians escape the focus McLaren gets.
No doubt McLaren have their issues, they’ve been around a lot less time than the Germans and Italian brands… they appear to be moving in the right direction now but it will take time to build confidence.
I have a 981 GT4, if I ever have the means to move up the ladder I would love a McLaren, no interesting in owning a Ferrari at all.
yea just go listen to Chris Harris latest podcast with his mates. They will tell you the truth of whats going on with ferrari now. im so sick and tired of people praising ferrari like we cant see owners reports, and we cant see terrible depreciation, and we cant hear about order books being closed. why do all these ferrari owners ignore this
@@skramer6483 moving in the right direction for the last 5 years of ICE? That's impressive and a half... 👌
Dealerships are the forward facing entity of any brand which is funny considering how they are somehow intrinsically linked while also being truly disassociated from the manufacture. I believe that many cars and brands live and die through their dealer network for a various amount of woeful reasons.
It's a very moot point lol, but they never did anything for me, as a discerning EVO reader and Supercar judger. Gave me the impression of a rather sterile, if very clever, technical exercise, with too many quality and reliability issues. If I were ever in a position to take a punt on something like this, you know it would an Italian, with all the emotion and history
Absolutely. McLaren seem to have a fatal mix of build issues and electronic integration that will turn them into bricks when tech moves on and people like Thorney inevitably pivot to something else. My rule is - go as classic analogue as possible or pay the premium to go with the tried and trusted higher end marques for the peace of mind with any follow ups. Trying the 'Porsche money for hypercar performance' 3rd way will just end in tears imo.
Have you driven one ?
It appears McLarens are part human and part machine. Some days they don’t feel like getting out of bed. But I don’t have to worry, they’re completely beyond my means…..
There is nothing emotional about modern ferrari or lamborghini and much the opposite.
Those twin turbo Italian vacuum cleaners. So emotional with their carbon footprint. Lmao
that's exactly right. Every time I get an itch for a mclaren I'm reminded of the headache that goes along with it.
Oh bloody hell, another McLaren video...this can't be good.
This video is a darn good case study for anyone interested in sales and marketing in general and not just for supercars. That's not to say it wasn't a good 'watch' (or rather a 'listen' for me) but more about 'business' than 'cars'. Of course we don't have the whole picture but it shows that some very well paid people can make some really bad decisions. That is either because they thought it was a good idea (when it wasn't) or knew it was a bad idea but were influenced by external pressures. If you are on the receiving end of said bad decisions it doesn't matter in the slightest whether the former or the latter is the case it's how it effects you that matters.
I still want a GT, in black with the P1 style purple metal flake, and tan leather interior... a used one is not that far out of reach, which is a worry.
Because if one showed tomorrow in the dream spec, I'd just have to take it home.
Very well articulated and informative.I just wish car sales people weren’t so arrogant, and even dishonest.Your reports on McLaren sales team attitude was so disappointing for a high end product.Others aren’t much better.Mercedes serviced my car and recorded 3 different grades of oil on the paperwork.When I travelled 150 miles to buy a Jaguar I pointed out to the dealer the mileage was 720 over that advertised, they said they would sell the car to someone else if I didn’t buy it ! BMW sold me a car with an oil leak in the turbo , told me the exhaust was black because of short journeys !
I haven’t owned a Porsche but I have the impression they are much better.
I would never buy a McLaren. The designs are generic and transformer-like. The interiors have absolutely no character. This brand can not compete with Ferrari.
@@cobra1010 you’re never going to buy a Ferrari either
@@andrewpease3688 I have 3 Ferraris in the garage. And I love and enjoy them madly.
Great video by the way - loved the detail and depth of the piece - excellent summary apart from not stating how revered and how stunning the 458 was when it was launched. Nothing compared to it plus its design was out of this world . Against that backdrop the MC 12 4C was launched with the stated goal of beating it - you couldn’t have a bigger task if you tried.
The model definition is diffuse and confusing. Yes, almost all car manufacturers have that problem since 2012 but it is bad here. Additionally, the brand and cars have a plastic image, just not "proper". No charisma, designed by committee.
Thanks for all the deets Jay! McClaren is a legend over here in the US but their problems are also well known. It really hurts my heart to see such mismanagement of what could be phenomenal 😢
This analysis is an outdated view. I’d have agreed once upon a time, but McLaren is a different animal now, and on the mend. I for one want to support their turn around.
Go ahead and buy one then
Godspeed
Think you are talking about Mclaren F1 team..not road cars 🤣
I don't care about ML or cars in general but I love business stories, and you're very good in telling them.
For a people who literally invented both capitalism and industry, the British sure are bad at it.
I have a 720s, I've owned, built, and driven racecars & the 720 is quite a stunner as you might say, the performance is ridiculously good and given I've had some electrical anomalies I'd buy another one in a heartbeat. I do agree that owning one without a Factory warranty is quite scary. Also why they program everything in the car to the VIN number strikes me as they want the warranty work, at least my dealer seems to work that way. So you can spend lots more money with similar maintenance costs and purchase price of other supercars, or just buy a used one to get rid of some of the depreciation and buy the warranty.
I have never met someone who is passionate about McLaren.
Maybe that's because, under Ron Dennis, McLaren was never a brand of passion... McLaren was a brand of OCD-level attention to detail.
Unfortunately, the road cars McLaren builds are considerably off brand.
I am. The racing heritage, being a teen watching Lewis and Jenson, the big gap between the F1 and the MP4 12C and the way the F1 just imposed itself into history near immediately.
Love them, through and through.
@jordanclark4635
1. I should have specified McLaren Automotive (I thought that was clear)... I have never met anyone who is passionate about McLaren Automotive.
2. The McLaren F1 stands alone in history, and has little to do with McLaren Automotive in its current guise.
3. The McLaren F1 team of today with its monstrous liveries and ugly cars is radically different to the MP4 era... There eras are connected only by the McLaren name.
@@HabitualLine-Stepper 1. The mention of Ron threw me off due to his association with F1
2. Yeah, but a lot of the engineers will have venerated the F1 and I think that shows, as James says, the issue is business and quality control, the the product design, largely
3. Brown was scouted by Dennis to get sponsorship for McLaren, before the power struggles, and owns multiple classic McLarens and has run them, never mind mclarens association with orange and papaya historically
James’ critiques are valid… but McLaren are special
@jordanclark4635
1. McLaren existed before Ron Dennis took control and shaped it in his image... McLaren Automotive is all Ron Dennis, and his vanity project to outdo Mercedes road cars.
2. The Lexus LFA is more alligned with the Ron Dennis era McLaren brand than any car McLaren Automotive has ever produced... There is no Ferrari-esque passion for any McLaren Automotive car - the LaFerrari is now 4x the price of a P1.
3. Zak Brown was not "scouted" by Ron Dennis... He sold advertising/sourced sponsors on behalf of multiple F1/racing teams and made a lot of money... McLaren F1 was his passion, so he acquired lots of McLaren racing cars.
I'm glad I saw this video. Was just on my way out to buy a McLaren. Not a real purchase, but certainly the window shop and daydream version of a real purchase
Thank you JayEmm, but you have not been successful in your application to be Head of Maclaren PR on this occasion 🤣
Your comment about people not wanting one resonates with me. I see one and love the shape, I love the potential numbers they are capable of and yet if anyone asks me one brand of sports or supercar I wouldn't own it's McLaren.
.... And I own a Maserati 😅
Makes me wonder if these dealerships would ever behave this way if the company was still run by Ron Dennis.
Agree...Ron never let the bean - counters take over under his reign.
You can make many criticisms of Ron but he had control. If something wasn’t right he made it right.
Ron Dennis had OCD and was a major control freak. That was eventually his downfall, but also the reason for his success. I cannot imagine McLaren being allowed to have such bad quality control if he were there.
Hi James, firstly great videos I’ve been following your channel for many years. I’m one of the people who very much wanted the GT model and I think it’s a great car. I owned my first McLaren in 2018 an 18 month old 570s from McLaren in Manchester it was far from a good experience and after 5 months of ownership they took the car back. Since then I’ve followed the media and I believe that they have improved both the product and the customer service hence I now own a 73 plate GT which I believe offers a superior experience as a road car to the other McLaren cars. Are McLaren really the only manufacturer that have quality issues, not in my book. Keep up the great work, hoping Woking offer you a long term car 👍
"in general and my opinion is forged from a mixture of my own experiences those of the people that I know and also my gut feeling" - And what a magnificent gut it is James ;)
Biggest gut feeling in the business
Worn seat bolsters i would dare to suggest 😂😂
Carefully calibrated to industry standards
😂😂
Enjoyed the first half but not the second of which I found to be on a bit of a tangent. It felt like an article from a magazine published by EMAP!
I don’t think I’ve ever looked at one and said ‘I want one’.
After the F1 I think all of their models are mediocre at best in design. They all have that kind of generic supercar look, and when I look at one, I feel like it was just brought to life from GTA Online. I don't really feel their design language... 😕
@@staLkerhu Disagree. I saw a 720S in Cheltenham and it looked awesome. Performance as good as an F1 and a more stylish (and different) design. The F1 is in a different league, like some Ferrari 250s are in a different league to the Daytona (like 10 x the value or more)!
Sad to hear that the ills that affected the British car industry in the days of British Leyland continued to the supercar.
I have a few friends that have McLaren... Car is in the shop 70% of the time. They used to come to touring events a lot when they had GT-Rs or Porsche..
BS
This is a very good overview James, we loved it, just watch those snipers from McLaren. 😂
Get a used Mclaren from Thorney, even if you have to pay over the odds. Job done.
They do a very good job for McLaren Thorny.
Bit of a snag if you live 4 hours away.
Why enjoy the drive
I spent a day in my colleagues 650S back when they were relatively new. We ran into issues all day with it, including something as simple as being unable to unlock and open the fuel door! Not long after that day, the windscreen cracked in half (no stone chips or any sign of it coming), but supposedly that was a common issue too...
Nice shoutout to Frank Stephenson- great designer! He has a great TH-cam channel as well.
Forgot your a great communicator, and educator. Great vids, wasted a couple spits of my pint trying to watch! So funny. Btw you may be simple but ya made me chuckle. 🍻
You send a bit ambigous message over the last couple vids about mcl
Yes, the last one he recommended buying one, after the video before that he scared everybody off the brand with the failed suspension bolts palaver…strange.
@@DavidDatura He is doing this for his channel's growth. We click and watch and his channel grows. He is not doing this as an informational push or out of the goodness of his heart.
A lot of views to be had from these videos. Slightly cynical tactics, but you can't really blame him.
They're separate videos on independent but related topics and for each of which I have drawn my own conclusion
What a hilarious, scathing, comprehensive critique.
And of course once again a great video, James😃👍👍👍
As a person who can just afford a car, food and internet, a few months ago I found myself missing the old mp4-12c. I'm always looking at news or TH-cam car related stuff and wondered what happened to that car. Well this video sums it up 😅
Rich people problems.
@@camilstoenescu a lot of these problems around cost cutting and build quality can be attributed to cheaper cars too, but those are always excused because they are lower price. If you want to see a culture change, you have to start at the top and work down, otherwise when you try and make them change, they can always fall back on "well (more expensive car) does it".
Lol…”well cor, blimey!” Well said.
And I happen to be an American.
Harry Metcalf was allowed to test a 750S recently. Took it all the way to south of France (whether he drove it back to Blighty, I don’t remember) and he seemed to love the thing! And didn’t mention having any issues with it either. Was he lucky enough to get a good’n? Or are McLaren on the mend? 🤷♂️
On the payroll
@@DavidDatura then he bought a 650s
Because 650S are half the price 👍
We've had 3 flawless mclarens and 99 percent of mclaren owners I speak to have no issues, every brand has lemons but most mclarens are great
we need a full run down of McLaren ownership, something similar to the Porsche engines video.
Most common models, most common catastrophes and how to avoid them
are parts purchasable and available outside the dealer network and can they be worked and programmed outside it as well
this could be a good start.
I know understood that for the price no other car with carbon tubs and insane performance comes near.