Tell finance company you suggest a report by Porsche main dealer on gearbox op and condition (the reason it was rejected); if they confirm defect you will pay for report and accept car but if the fault isn't confirmed the finance house pays all costs and the car is returned to the purchaser. They are legally at fault for not mediating with you before returning the car.
You are being way too kind….deducting just 10% for a Porsche 911 for not having any service history you are robbing yourself….i think you are being way too generous but do understand the weight balance between fighting for what’s right and what additional stress it brings with it…..shameful from who ever the finance house is 👎
@@ShiftingMetal My first thought is that you have been over generous in the deduction for the loss of history. If I was in the market for that car (maybe one day 🤞) I would not even consider one without history. I'd expect history to be worth four to five grand on that car. Not sure if there is a difference between history and "documented history" in this instance.
Wow bloke had a free car for nearly a year. It’s a bit sad story really and you have to find the purchase price to pay the finance co back. Surely all the issues are just general maintenance which we have to do on any car ?
He can’t it is the same finance company that does his stocking plan - they’ll just sent to auction and the loss put against his stocking plan along with fees. That’s why need different finance house for buying and selling ie consumer finance Black Horse whilst dealer stocking through Barclays.
@@ShiftingMetalneeds to be taken to court with an independent report for the gearbox. To show there is nothing wrong with it alongside no service history or stereo unit the finance company should foot the bill!!
I had a car for almost a year which I rejected in the end similar to this. It was in and out of the dealers garage getting FOC repairs every month (8 times in 11 months). Contacted finance company as they never solved the issue and the car was honestly a nail. Rejected it and got money back
I had a car dealship for years, this guy is standard buyers remorse. I wish you the best of luck but feel the finance company will screw you. Car sales is how you turn a big fortune into a small one. the missing service history is the biggest screw.
This is why I don’t mess with things like that Porsche. My best sellers are family cars and i earn more out of them than I would on that piece of rubbish too😅plus you’re more likely to get level headed people willing to work with you on any problems. If a car has a problem I just fix it no questions asked, would rather take a loss and keep a 5* review than make and get 1* for being a bell end. Reviews really ruin businesses these days, had a guy leave a 1* review that said “never been here so can’t say what it’s like”….. luckily google removed it but I stay 5* and it’s always the first thing the customer says. I came here because of your reviews.
Well said very true…fact he wanted car initially with very short mot shows his character….very impulsive….act in haste repent at leisure….well in this case the poor business owner
The service history is the biggest loss because everything else can be repaired/ replaced. I think the car should be valued in its current condition and the refund based on that. Shouldn't be returned under this one sided complaint. Finance company should get an independent Porsche assessment done to make it fair. Good luck Joe looks like a very nice car anyway.
I personally think the buyer couldn't afford it. Older sports cars are cheap to buy, but expensive to run and keep. Doesn't have to be a Porsche either. It's like the Range Rover owners. They get a fright when they are paying road tax, Insurance, fuel. My mate had the same issue with a boxster S. And the finance company is a joke. They are just scared the buyer will stop making payments. Absolutely stunning 911. A great example
@@PointNemo9 couldn't afford it, and sold it. Broke even. Everytime he drove it hard, the dash was like an Xmas tree. I didn't have issues with my 986/996.
Service history not present and aftermarket seats installed and airbags coded out???? Thats a good enough reason to fight the case with finance company
Personally id be filing a County Court claim. He could of clocked that car. Milleage is irrelevant if its been taken around nurburgring. Thise rear mirrors do stop working with age
@user-sf7kl9uh7k what suspicion are you talking about? If the car is returned in a condition notably worse than when it was taken then you have a VALID LEGAL CLAIM FOR COMPENSATION. I sometimes wonder who these people are that reply to my messages. It's like talking to an unintelligible AI bot
I'd Deffo be going to court with this one Joe especially with that list you've compiled, no service history is the big one for me, it looks fantastic but if i were in the market for a sports car this one with 100k and no history wouldn't get a 2nd look.
What does Porsche have to do with it? You would need independent proof of loss of value. Possibly value the car using a paid service with a full service history and no service history and there is the loss. You can't just pluck a number out of the air like he did and say 10% deduction without having a guide to ho he reached that figure. Maybe you could argue that a full service, including any cam belts would need to be done at the very least to assure the next buyer that the car has had everything done recently. If he was to sell this car on without service history this is what I would be doing and maybe trying to contact Porsche and the specialist to recover as much service history as possible. They will stamp a new book if they find your service on record.
@@ShiftingMetal Because at this point, the finance company have placed that onus on you. If you don't or can't demonstrate the level of loss, they will just rule in his favour.
Such a shame you have to deal with people like this they give proper car people a bad name. The missing service history will definitely make a big difference for re sale value. Best of luck with it.
This is why I won't do finance! Or credit card payments. Its absolutely ridiculous that on a 20yr old car you are responsible for a thing! After 30 days that should be the end of it!
I say I don't warranty classics, you've got to take the risk on a 20 year old high performance car, tbh better not to stock it in the first place, porsche customer with no money, never going to end well, guy should have bought an Mx5.
Surely there should depreciation as well. He’s not complained the whole year and had sole use of it. And btw, without MOT where’s he been driving it? Check local race tracks and see if it’s been registered for use.
Time for a bit of "car forensics" here. Take it back to Porsche and they will tell you EXACTLY how it has been driven, including full data from a history of a lot of the journeys that have been stored. They can also tell you if it was modified in any way via the OBD2 or had any tuning applied either through a remap or one of those con-merchant specials, a voltage multiplier that costs £5 but retails for £300+, also known as a tuning box. People think if they remove them, it removes all trace. The ECU (and other modules now) stores the max values of sensors and gives an idea of whether things have been pushed well beyond factory specification. This is how main dealerships get out of paying warranty claims for blown engines and how police show a car has been messed with after an accident. You can not access this data or decode it by using any of the fault code readers, it has to be the main dealership as various codes specific to the car are required and you can not get them - not even people working in dealerships can without going through a certain process. Some of the cars also store backups of important faults on the keys, so even if you tamper with the car again, there is always a record. That is how a lot of people in the early 2000s were done for fraud, they couldn't afford repayments and simply parked the car somewhere and sent the keys to the insurer - then went to prison. It was something first worked on by Adrian Flux Insurance and Police over 25years ago - that's when I first saw this being used, then it spread across the whole industry as people wanted to disprove claims of damage and theft and assist with accident reconstruction. At this time there was not even a Database used by companies to check for repeat offenders, or to see how many times people had been in accidents as drivers and passengers and how many hundreds of people they all knew.
I would take him to Court, do not just give in to his Bull excuses. Best of Luck loving the channel. If i needed a vehicle, i would come to you first, you seem to be a very Genuine Car Dealer.
You have been more than fair! How can small businesses survive when you are treated like this? Hope it all goes smoothly from here for you. If I had the money I’d love that car!!
Hi there, 1st time here & I enjoyed your video. I’ve been an ‘Independent Automotive Technical Consultant’ for over 25yrs now. Equally With 40+ years experience in the motor trade! …… Having done a lot of legal work in the industry it is clear that the incorrect information claimed on the gearbox’s so called ‘Rumble’ is why you have the car back. Clearly this was fabricated by the customer if it’s not happening. My advice is to get this ‘independently’ checked by another professional… a gearbox specialist or consultant like myself. Then armed with this report I would be informing the finance company (in no uncertain terms) that they had professionally ‘Failed’ to accurately & fairly access the customer’s claim & would clearly lose substantially in court on the grounds of supporting a ‘fraudulent’ claim of gearbox fault by the customer & not having it inspected correctly. The gearbox is the only true angle of comeback in this case. Which as a professional myself would be correct if it was possibly found to have a rumble. With this issue thrown out then there is no case against you? ….I hope this helps & good luck.
Any damage to the car you can claim from the owner through a seperate civil claim. I would definitely be doing that and I'd not use that finance company again. Value of cars I sell I don't have to deal with them.
More than fair. He couldn’t afford to maintain it! History and paperwork is everything with a Porsche. Bound to be harder to sell without it. Pity he wasn’t a cash buyer.
I think your deductions are extremely fair, personally I think you should be asking for more, as the finance company, I think in the long run, you're better off without them
They usually get wet inside because the drain holes in the scuttle have rubber grommets on them that fill up with sh*t like leaves and block the rain from draining out of the scuttle. It then fills up and leaks into the foot well. If it's left like that then the footwells fill up and destroy all the control units that are under the seat.
Couldn't believe this, I recognised this car / reg straight away !, I had this car from Jan 2008 to Feb 2009 (2nd owner), paid £ 54k for this car back in 2008. Engine failed circa 16k miles due to scoring of the 6th bore (typical first gen 997 problem, which Porsche denied entirely at the time). Had to source a new / refurb engine from Stuttgart, cost me around £8k from memory, courtesy of Porsche East London. Exited the car straight immediately after replacing the engine (stupidly). It has taken me 15 years to go back to the brand... My wife still raises that garage bill to this day.
I simply can't believe that you have been forced to take this back. I assume the finance company took the path of least resistance (cost) by making it your problem rather than having to repossess it if the buyer couldn't afford the payments, with an undoubteded loss of some funds for them.
@@Petrolhead912 it's outside sytner LR Wakefield, big black range rover, tbh I'd expect a new range rover to loose 17k in its first year, we're a bit rural as well so insurance shouldn't be like London, but obviously someones not happy.
@@roystonvehicles9129 Surely they should have checked it out before investing, and tough luck if they didn't. Range Rover thefts have been an issue for a few years and actually recently dramatically dropped due to big security improvements JLR were forced to make.
Finance seems great, but under UK law the finance company is liable for the car as well. Finance often sways customers to purchase items on the spot, which can be good, but also you are seeing the bad here. A customer didn't really think about the deal too much and got caught up in the excitement and now a big headache.
Not so; first 6 months any fault is deemed to have been there at the time of sale. After 6 months it’s up to the buyer, or in this case the finance company, to prove the fault was there at the time of sale, which they appear to be saying they have with the inspection report.
My colleague has been without the car he's been paying for 10 months, for 3 nearly 4 months. The finance company refused his rejection despite the fault being identified and raised with the car selling company within the first six months, initially they were helpful and said that they would book it in with a dealer to have it diagnosed, fixed. After waiting 2 months for a courtesy car, the dealer confirmed a fault that is covered under the cars warranty but that the part needs to be manufactured and there is no stock worldwide. When asked if this would take six months, he was told "that's ambitious". At this point he contacted the finance company with all the evidence (and no car, only a much cheaper courtesy car) they refused it as he was "too far into the agreement". He seemingly has no way out and the manufacturer of the car do not care for the situation. To clarify, the issue did not manifest itself for a few months. The part is a battery cell as part of a battery pack for a hybrid system. The manufacturer are not willing to replace the entire pack (which they do have stock of) and as such are expecting him to wait months for a single cell.
I purchased a 2003 Porsche 996 Cabriolet 3.6 ltr series 2 with a very low 49.K mileage. I paid £22K for it 6 months ago purely because of the very low mileage.I hadn't been used much since Covid but I noticed the tyres were close to the legal limit, I purchased a new set myself as I felt more comfortable with new tyres. Two months later the battery was useless so replaced with correct Bosch item. Updated the Porsche radio CD player with an up to date Blaupunkt example. I was promised they would replace the soft top lock and still waiting. I think they winced at the price of even a second hand item as they had just had the I.M.S. bearing and some other bits replaced prior to my purchase. (Ive actually purchased a replacement which they promise to fit for me together with another minor job before spring. After all that I am thrilled with my purchase and as you say a 20 yr old car isn't new but you can't run one on peanuts.I think I must have been one of those very rare cash buyers and no finance.
Never sell a car with an MOT that expires in the first six months. New MOT always best to prevent a service centre presenting customer with long list of work generating faults.
16:16 I wouldn't have taken that car back without the head unit and service history. It's an absolute joke that the finance company have handled in this way. Take him to court.
I'm not a lawyer but I fail to see how why you have had to take the Porsche back. The 2015 Consumer Rights Act gives protection to both parties, the buyer has 6 months from date of purchase to notify of you of any faults but crucially they have to give you opportunity to rectify those faults. Even if you didn't fix the faults it would then be for the purchaser to repair the faults and then to recover those costs from you. I'm guessing that the buyer might have defaulted on his finance and that the finance company is trying to cut their losses by getting you to pay for them.
I’ve never commented so many times as watching a video through lol. His deposit has definitely dwindled to nothing. I’ve dealt with the odd customer like this one previously myself and I’ve let them take me to court and they have both dropped the case just before going as they were advised I’d win. Glad that 99% of my customers are awesome customers and we go the data mile to help where we can
I think you was generous with the deduction on the service history Porsche buyers are fussy people I’d expect it to depreciate more then 3k because of it
I think UK consumer law presumes that any new fault that occurs within 6 months was due to a fault present at purchase. After that it's up to the buyer to prove that.
There will be nothing wrong with that Tiptronic box. They are completely bombproof. They are an old Mercedes Benz box. Antiquated next to the current PDK but hugely reliable. Quite often they set themselves away in 2nd not 1st, that`s the way they all are.
The best car advice I received as a young man was to first hire a Porsche to get it out of my system. Then reconsider the running costs and lack of decent roads to use it on. Obviously back then we didn't expect prices of the car to go up after they bottomed.
Joe i think it's really unfair the finance company can force you to take the car back, I would stop using them 100 percent and not recommend them at all, I hope you get to keep the full deposit towards all the damage etc. I would look into if a car really can be rejected after that long and do something about they way the finance company have treated you, I think you have been very fair and genuine which most people appreciate.
I understand Joe, we’ve had this similar issue with a Finance company that deal with Sub prime customers. They never work with you, and try to ‘unwind’ the deal, making out the ‘fault’ was inherited from the date of purchase. Surly at this stage, at very best a repair ( at best)is more than sufficient.
Keep up the good work Joe I cannot believe the finance company sided with the customer, I think it’s obvious he couldn’t afford to or wanted to maintain the Porsche. Returning it with no service history is unbelievable!!!!
I would say close motor finance. 6 months only also you can charge usage car must come back in the condition it went out plus he must prove faults there at time of purchase. Know how you feel happened to me a few times until I stood up to customers and finance companies
I absolutely wouldn't accept the car back without the service history - It's not the same product without it. As James @ChopsGarage said - very hard sell without it and you shouldn't lose out for the buyers lack of care.
Hi buddy had my own garage for 30 years selling sports and performance cars. Every car we would put on 12 months mot and pre delivery inspection even if it already had 11.5 months left on it. Just to try and avoid this situation .
I used to sell cars myself. I sold about 5000 over 25 years. One thing I did was photocopy the service history and keep it with the invoice. Its a ball ache but would help here. I don't think I ever had a car returned via the finance companies. So customers are likely more aware of their rights these days. Im also amazed a finance company would touch a 20 year old car. I don't think I would sell a car that way myself. The commission can sometimes sway the sensibility of just selling it for cash. The owner has taken the piss but the Law looks to be on his side. We all learn by our mistakes.
Mate you are a diamond with this video, insurance company are tossers, you should have put more money on for your companies reputation. Hope it gets sorted and you don’t lose anymore.
Glad you’ve dropped the finance company and I hope they were told. Probably unlikely to affect them in anyway but at least it gives you the satisfaction.
There should be a sort of probate process for finance customers so they have to wait 21 days or something like that for anything over 10k worth of car. That would allow people on the bottom end of the scale to still purchase cars they need but gives other people time to actually think about what they are doing and help stop buyers remorse. Obviously it won’t happen because the finance companies just want to make as much as they can as quick as they can. I don’t sell cars such as this Porsche for this exact reason.
Guy sounds like a gonk! Bought a 2 year old used car from Arnold Clarke Blackpool a few years ago. Low mileage and full history. Test drove it.. checked it out.. all fine. No problems. Picked up a week later in the wet (first mistake) Got home to find gouged front near side diamond alloy wheel. Called salesman the following morning “it’s a used car mate.. what did you expect..” Have talked at least a dozen people out of buying from that garage in the last few years. You’ve done more than most would do. Good luck with the counter offer..
I bought a Peugeot with the 1.2 Puretech back in April. 8 days later the engine had no oil in it. The dealer refused any assistance. I am so glad I financed the car. It took nearly 5 months but I got all my money back.
The guy has bascially lied to the finance company and used section 75 to declare the car not fit for purpose. You need to approach the finance company and inform them the car has been returned in a condition it was not sold and therefore you reject the claim. You would need to highlight all the things currently wrong with the vehicle and the things that were not returned ie: service history. Failing that, if the finance company does not oblige in your favour I would issue an invoice to the customer for damage, not returning paperwork etc and pursue through the courts if he/she fails to pay.
That's disgusting, is there any like group between car dealers that you could warn other dealers to not deal with this customer, or finance company ? I would definitely NOT refund a single penny of his deposit, what a cheek, that customer has more front than Brighton!
You have just concluded why they say:- Only two times one is glad they have bought a Porsche, the day you buy it and the day you sell it, because all it does is cost you money.
22 grand is still a lot of money age of the vehicle isn't relevant in the context of your comment. That's the reason finance was used not everyone has 22 grand lying around.
If this car has a box issue it will go into limp mode and red light will flash between D and 4 on the dash. So I'd suggest there is nothing wrong with it. When they go into limp mode you really know about it. Obviously any decent scanner like Autel 906 will give you more info, codes, live data etc. They are pretty solid boxes - I think Mercedes (996 was) - Tiptronic module is more likely to be an issue than mechanical. Years ago I had a 996 Turbo in where the owner put battery in wrong way around, big spark and then no comm from Tip module (with D and 4 flashing).
When you, as a dealer, sells a car, you should make sure that the car is fit for purpose when the customer takes delivery. Leaving faults in it for the customer to fix, like no MOT and defective tyres, just gives them ammunition to reject it. Also, a car shouldn't go damp when you park it for a long time unless you leave a door or window open, so it's probably got a leak from the sun roof or similar.
Is there not an ombudsman you can get to intervene on this one? I can't believe they have comeback after such a long time and return it in that state with loads of other stuff not handed back! I thought Garages were only responsible for the car for 3 months then any warranty insurance the buyer may take out covers from then on?
As an 911 owner for over 15 years, I would never sell old Porsches. They are an expensive liability, just ticking time bombs. I have replaced so much, all standard things going wrong. From front to back, so much is renewed. Also my tiptronic started playing up. Spent weeks to get valve block overhauled and I replaced solenoids etc. I must have had it apart half a dozen times.
Did you mention in 12 months he's only made one finance payment to the company? If that's the case the finance company probably wants to make it your problem as they don't want to chase him around any longer They haven't gone through the proper procedures and just returned it without due diligence so surely there is clause to counter their claim?
Sounds like someone bought a porche who couldn't afford to own one! The service history is massive and I bet it will magically reappear if they deduct it from his deposit.
My pal has a 964 and budgets at least a thousand quid per phonecall to his Porsche people. It often isn't that expensive for general stuff but he has been surprised in the past with his 944 and 996T so he's always got a contingency plan!!! 😊
Personally will never used a warranty Co again. Bought a C4s with warranty good car which had 2 minor problems occur. They made me jump through absolute hoops and then refused to pay. The seller covered to cost, bless them. So negotiate a discount instead, warranties aren’t worth the paper they’re written on!
5k sounds fair to me, the missing history is the main issue, like you say diff between full hist and none is prob 3k alone!!,, good vid ,keep up the good work👍
Totally fair. I would be fuming. Especially with the missing service history etc. I would engage a solicitor and claim for their costs against the finance company as well.
The underlying reason that the buyer has got cold feet in my view is that he will have just received the insurance renewal on the Porsche, which will have undoubtedly skyrocketed in cost from 12 months ago. It is totally wrong for the finance company to expect you to take the vehicle back after such a long time period has elapsed.
Seems a fair claim by you against his deposit. Porsche battery will go flat and then there will be all sorts of fault codes. Anyone doing their research would know this. Who buys a porsche without learning about them? Lovely car. Owned a few myself, love them.
Very interesting - Easy to always side with the buyer. But the car clearly wasn’t returned in the same condition minus any reasonable wear and tear despite what any of the issues may or may not have existed. Really good to se thoughtful video from the dealers point of view
How can this be retuned with no service history- fair enough you can bill for damage, mileage and missing items but you can’t rectify service history 🙄
Deductions seem fair to em, shocking that someone can get the finance company to return a car after nearly a year and then once they agree not return the car compete. I would however like to know if once the errors are cleared and the battery checked/ replaced, if the errors come back.
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Tell finance company you suggest a report by Porsche main dealer on gearbox op and condition (the reason it was rejected); if they confirm defect you will pay for report and accept car but if the fault isn't confirmed the finance house pays all costs and the car is returned to the purchaser. They are legally at fault for not mediating with you before returning the car.
i agree with this ... i think i'd try this route as well
💯
I completely agree that seems very reasonable
Complaint to the Ombudsman.
@@um02122they will do nothing because finance give you warranty I forget how long it is but it's a least 12 months if not more
No I am not having that! Small Claims for the History and Stereo plus damages! A Porsche with no History is major hard sell
Hope he listens to you james
We'll see what happens James but it is a complete joke!
You are being way too kind….deducting just 10% for a Porsche 911 for not having any service history you are robbing yourself….i think you are being way too generous but do understand the weight balance between fighting for what’s right and what additional stress it brings with it…..shameful from who ever the finance house is 👎
I wouldn’t buy it without history full stop. I think 10% is way too generous.
@@ShiftingMetal My first thought is that you have been over generous in the deduction for the loss of history. If I was in the market for that car (maybe one day 🤞) I would not even consider one without history. I'd expect history to be worth four to five grand on that car. Not sure if there is a difference between history and "documented history" in this instance.
Unbelievable. Don't use the finance company again.
You can just imagine the type of customer as well. I bet they hounded finance company and salesman
Most finance companies would probably do this. Low life customer.
Wow bloke had a free car for nearly a year. It’s a bit sad story really and you have to find the purchase price to pay the finance co back. Surely all the issues are just general maintenance which we have to do on any car ?
Did you see the independent report, the guy that carried that out needs shaming,
Finance company is garbage and the customer is one of that guy who you want to spit in the face
Unbelievable Joe, tell finance company to bugger off and take every penny out of his deposit that you are entitled to. Keep up the good work mate
He can’t it is the same finance company that does his stocking plan - they’ll just sent to auction and the loss put against his stocking plan along with fees. That’s why need different finance house for buying and selling ie consumer finance Black Horse whilst dealer stocking through Barclays.
@@c11yan they can poke their stocking loan, I barely use it anyway!
@@ShiftingMetalneeds to be taken to court with an independent report for the gearbox. To show there is nothing wrong with it alongside no service history or stereo unit the finance company should foot the bill!!
Make a point if you can afford the court fee’s. I’d feel better winning court case that cost me money than rolling over.
I had a car for almost a year which I rejected in the end similar to this. It was in and out of the dealers garage getting FOC repairs every month (8 times in 11 months). Contacted finance company as they never solved the issue and the car was honestly a nail. Rejected it and got money back
I had a car dealship for years, this guy is standard buyers remorse. I wish you the best of luck but feel the finance company will screw you. Car sales is how you turn a big fortune into a small one. the missing service history is the biggest screw.
This is why I don’t mess with things like that Porsche. My best sellers are family cars and i earn more out of them than I would on that piece of rubbish too😅plus you’re more likely to get level headed people willing to work with you on any problems. If a car has a problem I just fix it no questions asked, would rather take a loss and keep a 5* review than make and get 1* for being a bell end. Reviews really ruin businesses these days, had a guy leave a 1* review that said “never been here so can’t say what it’s like”….. luckily google removed it but I stay 5* and it’s always the first thing the customer says. I came here because of your reviews.
Well said very true…fact he wanted car initially with very short mot shows his character….very impulsive….act in haste repent at leisure….well in this case the poor business owner
The service history is the biggest loss because everything else can be repaired/ replaced. I think the car should be valued in its current condition and the refund based on that. Shouldn't be returned under this one sided complaint. Finance company should get an independent Porsche assessment done to make it fair. Good luck Joe looks like a very nice car anyway.
Hold out for the £5K, the history and extra owner are worth that never mind the other stuff and depreciation.
I think it might be worth contesting their inspection and providing them with your own, ideally from a Porsche specialist…
I personally think the buyer couldn't afford it. Older sports cars are cheap to buy, but expensive to run and keep.
Doesn't have to be a Porsche either.
It's like the Range Rover owners. They get a fright when they are paying road tax, Insurance, fuel.
My mate had the same issue with a boxster S.
And the finance company is a joke. They are just scared the buyer will stop making payments.
Absolutely stunning 911. A great example
What happened with your mate and his Boxster?
@@PointNemo9 couldn't afford it, and sold it. Broke even.
Everytime he drove it hard, the dash was like an Xmas tree. I didn't have issues with my 986/996.
Completely agree mate 👍
If you can't afford to run a new one, you can't afford to run a used one!!
@@richardadcock6398 always the same mate. Buyers remorse as the big man says.
Service history not present and aftermarket seats installed and airbags coded out???? Thats a good enough reason to fight the case with finance company
Nevermind seen that the original seats are present in the vehicle*
Personally id be filing a County Court claim. He could of clocked that car. Milleage is irrelevant if its been taken around nurburgring. Thise rear mirrors do stop working with age
That's what I thought, take the finance company to court and the slimeball that returned the car. The older I get the more the dreamers annoy me.
You can't go to court with "he could have done this or that", you need proof of your claims
@Christopher_T_Paul no idea what your talking about pal.
@@DaleSteelI'd say he does, you can't start legal action based on supposition, obviously. When someone ends a sentence with 'pal'. 😊
@user-sf7kl9uh7k what suspicion are you talking about? If the car is returned in a condition notably worse than when it was taken then you have a VALID LEGAL CLAIM FOR COMPENSATION. I sometimes wonder who these people are that reply to my messages. It's like talking to an unintelligible AI bot
I'd Deffo be going to court with this one Joe especially with that list you've compiled, no service history is the big one for me, it looks fantastic but if i were in the market for a sports car this one with 100k and no history wouldn't get a 2nd look.
It must be good for business for customers to know you have an 11 months return policy.
Yes, seems better than any warranty!!
Deductions roughly add up to about 22500 I reckon!
I suspect the missing history would make substantially more than a couple of grand difference, phone a Porsche specialist and ask for their advice
More like 5-7 k
What does Porsche have to do with it? You would need independent proof of loss of value. Possibly value the car using a paid service with a full service history and no service history and there is the loss. You can't just pluck a number out of the air like he did and say 10% deduction without having a guide to ho he reached that figure.
Maybe you could argue that a full service, including any cam belts would need to be done at the very least to assure the next buyer that the car has had everything done recently. If he was to sell this car on without service history this is what I would be doing and maybe trying to contact Porsche and the specialist to recover as much service history as possible. They will stamp a new book if they find your service on record.
Why should I have to do all of that work? He signed for the docs
@@ShiftingMetal Because at this point, the finance company have placed that onus on you. If you don't or can't demonstrate the level of loss, they will just rule in his favour.
Such a shame you have to deal with people like this they give proper car people a bad name. The missing service history will definitely make a big difference for re sale value. Best of luck with it.
This is why I won't do finance! Or credit card payments. Its absolutely ridiculous that on a 20yr old car you are responsible for a thing! After 30 days that should be the end of it!
Well said james
I say I don't warranty classics, you've got to take the risk on a 20 year old high performance car, tbh better not to stock it in the first place, porsche customer with no money, never going to end well, guy should have bought an Mx5.
Probably better off just to buy private and avoid the trade mark-up then@@roystonvehicles9129
Car dealers crying because customers finally have rights and you can't flog them off anymore?
@@f_2019 well theres rights, as customers always have had, it's a bit rich rejecting a vehicle after nearly a year
Surely there should depreciation as well. He’s not complained the whole year and had sole use of it.
And btw, without MOT where’s he been driving it? Check local race tracks and see if it’s been registered for use.
Looks like Mr Porsche is a champagne lifestyle lemonade money kinda guy
Normal customer for this type of all flash no cash market
If you can't afford to buy it twice in cash, you can't afford it!
Keeping up appearances is the old term 😂😂😂😂 otherwise living beyond your means 😂😂😂😂
100% you are in the right. You seem like a genuine and honest dealer. Shame you can have the same in your customers !
Time for a bit of "car forensics" here. Take it back to Porsche and they will tell you EXACTLY how it has been driven, including full data from a history of a lot of the journeys that have been stored. They can also tell you if it was modified in any way via the OBD2 or had any tuning applied either through a remap or one of those con-merchant specials, a voltage multiplier that costs £5 but retails for £300+, also known as a tuning box. People think if they remove them, it removes all trace. The ECU (and other modules now) stores the max values of sensors and gives an idea of whether things have been pushed well beyond factory specification. This is how main dealerships get out of paying warranty claims for blown engines and how police show a car has been messed with after an accident.
You can not access this data or decode it by using any of the fault code readers, it has to be the main dealership as various codes specific to the car are required and you can not get them - not even people working in dealerships can without going through a certain process. Some of the cars also store backups of important faults on the keys, so even if you tamper with the car again, there is always a record. That is how a lot of people in the early 2000s were done for fraud, they couldn't afford repayments and simply parked the car somewhere and sent the keys to the insurer - then went to prison.
It was something first worked on by Adrian Flux Insurance and Police over 25years ago - that's when I first saw this being used, then it spread across the whole industry as people wanted to disprove claims of damage and theft and assist with accident reconstruction. At this time there was not even a Database used by companies to check for repeat offenders, or to see how many times people had been in accidents as drivers and passengers and how many hundreds of people they all knew.
Boss he going to get this done though lol
I would take him to Court, do not just give in to his Bull excuses. Best of Luck loving the channel. If i needed a vehicle, i would come to you first, you seem to be a very Genuine Car Dealer.
Agreed ❤
You have been more than fair! How can small businesses survive when you are treated like this? Hope it all goes smoothly from here for you. If I had the money I’d love that car!!
Hi there, 1st time here & I enjoyed your video.
I’ve been an ‘Independent Automotive Technical Consultant’ for over 25yrs now. Equally With 40+ years experience in the motor trade!
…… Having done a lot of legal work in the industry it is clear that the incorrect information claimed on the gearbox’s so called ‘Rumble’ is why you have the car back. Clearly this was fabricated by the customer if it’s not happening.
My advice is to get this ‘independently’ checked by another professional… a gearbox specialist or consultant like myself. Then armed with this report I would be informing the finance company (in no uncertain terms) that they had professionally ‘Failed’ to accurately & fairly access the customer’s claim & would clearly lose substantially in court on the grounds of supporting a ‘fraudulent’ claim of gearbox fault by the customer & not having it inspected correctly.
The gearbox is the only true angle of comeback in this case. Which as a professional myself would be correct if it was possibly found to have a rumble. With this issue thrown out then there is no case against you?
….I hope this helps & good luck.
Nice post Tony 👍🏻
Your 100% correct, The guy clearly couldn't afford the car and you having to take it back is outrageous.
Missing service history is a massif kick in the bollocks 🤔 i would have thought 2.5K is massively under. what is the car worth on the forecourt now?
Any damage to the car you can claim from the owner through a seperate civil claim. I would definitely be doing that and I'd not use that finance company again. Value of cars I sell I don't have to deal with them.
Porsche Man is a high level BellEnd
That's being polite
More than fair. He couldn’t afford to maintain it! History and paperwork is everything with a Porsche. Bound to be harder to sell without it. Pity he wasn’t a cash buyer.
I think your deductions are extremely fair, personally I think you should be asking for more, as the finance company, I think in the long run, you're better off without them
They usually get wet inside because the drain holes in the scuttle have rubber grommets on them that fill up with sh*t like leaves and block the rain from draining out of the scuttle. It then fills up and leaks into the foot well. If it's left like that then the footwells fill up and destroy all the control units that are under the seat.
I'd definitely be looking down the legal route, seems like someone is taking the pi55
Couldn't believe this, I recognised this car / reg straight away !, I had this car from Jan 2008 to Feb 2009 (2nd owner), paid £ 54k for this car back in 2008. Engine failed circa 16k miles due to scoring of the 6th bore (typical first gen 997 problem, which Porsche denied entirely at the time). Had to source a new / refurb engine from Stuttgart, cost me around £8k from memory, courtesy of Porsche East London. Exited the car straight immediately after replacing the engine (stupidly). It has taken me 15 years to go back to the brand... My wife still raises that garage bill to this day.
No way, you don't still have a copy do you? I seem to have lost all my history! 😂
@@ShiftingMetalYes ! still got the Porsche bills for the engine replacement... happy to scan and send to you if you want it.
That would be great! My email is joe@berrowmotors.Co.uk Thanks!
I simply can't believe that you have been forced to take this back. I assume the finance company took the path of least resistance (cost) by making it your problem rather than having to repossess it if the buyer couldn't afford the payments, with an undoubteded loss of some funds for them.
Just driven past local land rover dealer at Wakefield, someones parked one outside with big signs on saying un insurable and worth 17k less in a year.
This is good to hear , they have had it far too good for far too long at both JLR and their dealers. I hope it makes the news 👍
@@Petrolhead912 it's outside sytner LR Wakefield, big black range rover, tbh I'd expect a new range rover to loose 17k in its first year, we're a bit rural as well so insurance shouldn't be like London, but obviously someones not happy.
@@roystonvehicles9129 Surely they should have checked it out before investing, and tough luck if they didn't. Range Rover thefts have been an issue for a few years and actually recently dramatically dropped due to big security improvements JLR were forced to make.
I saw that yesterday!
@@stevenshuttleworth6689 still there this morning, got a parking ticket on it now.
no service history would be a deal breaker for me .. just keep the car
That’s fucking nuts that the finance company can make you take the car back
Finance seems great, but under UK law the finance company is liable for the car as well. Finance often sways customers to purchase items on the spot, which can be good, but also you are seeing the bad here. A customer didn't really think about the deal too much and got caught up in the excitement and now a big headache.
We're only getting one side of the story here
Missing history for that car is the difference between selling it and not selling it
I think you need to consult a lawyer about this one, right to reject lasts only 6 months according to Google 🤔
Not so; first 6 months any fault is deemed to have been there at the time of sale.
After 6 months it’s up to the buyer, or in this case the finance company, to prove the fault was there at the time of sale, which they appear to be saying they have with the inspection report.
My colleague has been without the car he's been paying for 10 months, for 3 nearly 4 months. The finance company refused his rejection despite the fault being identified and raised with the car selling company within the first six months, initially they were helpful and said that they would book it in with a dealer to have it diagnosed, fixed. After waiting 2 months for a courtesy car, the dealer confirmed a fault that is covered under the cars warranty but that the part needs to be manufactured and there is no stock worldwide. When asked if this would take six months, he was told "that's ambitious".
At this point he contacted the finance company with all the evidence (and no car, only a much cheaper courtesy car) they refused it as he was "too far into the agreement".
He seemingly has no way out and the manufacturer of the car do not care for the situation.
To clarify, the issue did not manifest itself for a few months. The part is a battery cell as part of a battery pack for a hybrid system. The manufacturer are not willing to replace the entire pack (which they do have stock of) and as such are expecting him to wait months for a single cell.
I purchased a 2003 Porsche 996 Cabriolet 3.6 ltr series 2 with a very low 49.K mileage. I paid £22K for it 6 months ago purely because of the very low mileage.I hadn't been used much since Covid but I noticed the tyres were close to the legal limit, I purchased a new set myself as I felt more comfortable with new tyres. Two months later the battery was useless so replaced with correct Bosch item. Updated the Porsche radio CD player with an up to date Blaupunkt example. I was promised they would replace the soft top lock and still waiting. I think they winced at the price of even a second hand item as they had just had the I.M.S. bearing and some other bits replaced prior to my purchase. (Ive actually purchased a replacement which they promise to fit for me together with another minor job before spring. After all that I am thrilled with my purchase and as you say a 20 yr old car isn't new but you can't run one on peanuts.I think I must have been one of those very rare cash buyers and no finance.
Tell them to "do one" see them in court, be a day out and you'll get expenses when you win, as I'm confident that you will.
Never sell a car with an MOT that expires in the first six months. New MOT always best to prevent a service centre presenting customer with long list of work generating faults.
That's brutal 😡 take buyer/finance company to court? ** totally understand your reasons for not taking this route 👍
16:16 I wouldn't have taken that car back without the head unit and service history. It's an absolute joke that the finance company have handled in this way. Take him to court.
I'm not a lawyer but I fail to see how why you have had to take the Porsche back. The 2015 Consumer Rights Act gives protection to both parties, the buyer has 6 months from date of purchase to notify of you of any faults but crucially they have to give you opportunity to rectify those faults. Even if you didn't fix the faults it would then be for the purchaser to repair the faults and then to recover those costs from you.
I'm guessing that the buyer might have defaulted on his finance and that the finance company is trying to cut their losses by getting you to pay for them.
Section 75 is much more flexible, in so much as discovery time
I’ve never commented so many times as watching a video through lol. His deposit has definitely dwindled to nothing. I’ve dealt with the odd customer like this one previously myself and I’ve let them take me to court and they have both dropped the case just before going as they were advised I’d win. Glad that 99% of my customers are awesome customers and we go the data mile to help where we can
I think you was generous with the deduction on the service history Porsche buyers are fussy people I’d expect it to depreciate more then 3k because of it
That seems absolutely MENTAL that you can essentially return something to the shop a year later, what you've used it and just say NO THANKS........
I think UK consumer law presumes that any new fault that occurs within 6 months was due to a fault present at purchase. After that it's up to the buyer to prove that.
There will be nothing wrong with that Tiptronic box. They are completely bombproof. They are an old Mercedes Benz box. Antiquated next to the current PDK but hugely reliable. Quite often they set themselves away in 2nd not 1st, that`s the way they all are.
I think you are very understanding and not unreasonable what you are deducting. good luck Joe.
Don’t forget the full valet on the car Joe. He got it spotless.
The best car advice I received as a young man was to first hire a Porsche to get it out of my system. Then reconsider the running costs and lack of decent roads to use it on. Obviously back then we didn't expect prices of the car to go up after they bottomed.
I hope you do a follow up video of the results of this as some don't use instergram
Totally fair. The finance company will miss your business.
Joe i think it's really unfair the finance company can force you to take the car back, I would stop using them 100 percent and not recommend them at all, I hope you get to keep the full deposit towards all the damage etc. I would look into if a car really can be rejected after that long and do something about they way the finance company have treated you, I think you have been very fair and genuine which most people appreciate.
I understand Joe, we’ve had this similar issue with a Finance company that deal with Sub prime customers. They never work with you, and try to ‘unwind’ the deal, making out the ‘fault’ was inherited from the date of purchase. Surly at this stage, at very best a repair ( at best)is more than sufficient.
Think buyer … then finance company taking the piss …
You need that service record, need that history…
Hats off to you for being so very professional. Now it’s time for the buyer and the finance company to settle the deductions…
Champagne taste/lemonade budget!! The worst customer their is 🤯
Keep up the good work Joe I cannot believe the finance company sided with the customer, I think it’s obvious he couldn’t afford to or wanted to maintain the Porsche. Returning it with no service history is unbelievable!!!!
Hi shifting metal. Can I hire the Porsche for 12 months for one month’s money next. 🙈🙈 Bloody Madness!
I would say close motor finance. 6 months only also you can charge usage car must come back in the condition it went out plus he must prove faults there at time of purchase. Know how you feel happened to me a few times until I stood up to customers and finance companies
I absolutely wouldn't accept the car back without the service history - It's not the same product without it. As James @ChopsGarage said - very hard sell without it and you shouldn't lose out for the buyers lack of care.
Hi buddy had my own garage for 30 years selling sports and performance cars. Every car we would put on 12 months mot and pre delivery inspection even if it already had 11.5 months left on it. Just to try and avoid this situation .
NAME THE FINANCE COMPANY
He won't I bet but you could probably find out from the website possibly
Close Brothers!
@@ShiftingMetal well that proved Me wrong🤣🤣👍
@@markfoden765 😂 fuck ‘em
@@ShiftingMetal good on you m8👊👍
I used to sell cars myself. I sold about 5000 over 25 years. One thing I did was photocopy the service history and keep it with the invoice. Its a ball ache but would help here.
I don't think I ever had a car returned via the finance companies. So customers are likely more aware of their rights these days.
Im also amazed a finance company would touch a 20 year old car. I don't think I would sell a car that way myself. The commission can sometimes sway the sensibility of just selling it for cash.
The owner has taken the piss but the Law looks to be on his side.
We all learn by our mistakes.
We have a new system now and it’s all stored online 👌
Mate you are a diamond with this video, insurance company are tossers, you should have put more money on for your companies reputation. Hope it gets sorted and you don’t lose anymore.
I would say £5k deduction at a minimum , you also need to deduct the fact it now has another owner to its list of previous owners.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's not been around a track and used for track days
Or clocked
And/or.
Don't disagree though
Glad you’ve dropped the finance company and I hope they were told. Probably unlikely to affect them in anyway but at least it gives you the satisfaction.
I can't believe that he has thrown away the service history, although it may still be in his chicken shed!
There should be a sort of probate process for finance customers so they have to wait 21 days or something like that for anything over 10k worth of car. That would allow people on the bottom end of the scale to still purchase cars they need but gives other people time to actually think about what they are doing and help stop buyers remorse. Obviously it won’t happen because the finance companies just want to make as much as they can as quick as they can. I don’t sell cars such as this Porsche for this exact reason.
Guy sounds like a gonk! Bought a 2 year old used car from Arnold Clarke Blackpool a few years ago. Low mileage and full history. Test drove it.. checked it out.. all fine. No problems. Picked up a week later in the wet (first mistake) Got home to find gouged front near side diamond alloy wheel. Called salesman the following morning “it’s a used car mate.. what did you expect..” Have talked at least a dozen people out of buying from that garage in the last few years.
You’ve done more than most would do. Good luck with the counter offer..
I'm sure there is someone who has had a good experience with a used car from Arnold Clark.
I've yet to meet them, but there has to be one somewhere.
I bought a Peugeot with the 1.2 Puretech back in April. 8 days later the engine had no oil in it. The dealer refused any assistance. I am so glad I financed the car. It took nearly 5 months but I got all my money back.
the question is are you going to keep dealing with that finance company
Definitely not
Many years ago a Porsche expert told me history worth at least 15% of the value,due to owners seldom keeping them more than 20months
The guy has bascially lied to the finance company and used section 75 to declare the car not fit for purpose. You need to approach the finance company and inform them the car has been returned in a condition it was not sold and therefore you reject the claim. You would need to highlight all the things currently wrong with the vehicle and the things that were not returned ie: service history. Failing that, if the finance company does not oblige in your favour I would issue an invoice to the customer for damage, not returning paperwork etc and pursue through the courts if he/she fails to pay.
You must have a large war chest to do that, the insurance company will have an almost bottomless pocket
That's disgusting, is there any like group between car dealers that you could warn other dealers to not deal with this customer, or finance company ?
I would definitely NOT refund a single penny of his deposit, what a cheek, that customer has more front than Brighton!
You have just concluded why they say:- Only two times one is glad they have bought a Porsche, the day you buy it and the day you sell it, because all it does is cost you money.
You've been more than fair. Nice car. Don't forget weekly video that's my Sunday morning viewing while I'm eating my fry up.😁👌
I'm sorry but if you need finance to purchase a 20 year old Porsche I think you need to re-evaluate your spending habits.
What a nieve guy you are. Cost of living is real
22 grand is still a lot of money age of the vehicle isn't relevant in the context of your comment. That's the reason finance was used not everyone has 22 grand lying around.
If this car has a box issue it will go into limp mode and red light will flash between D and 4 on the dash. So I'd suggest there is nothing wrong with it. When they go into limp mode you really know about it. Obviously any decent scanner like Autel 906 will give you more info, codes, live data etc. They are pretty solid boxes - I think Mercedes (996 was) - Tiptronic module is more likely to be an issue than mechanical. Years ago I had a 996 Turbo in where the owner put battery in wrong way around, big spark and then no comm from Tip module (with D and 4 flashing).
Did you get the original seats back?
It has the original seats but I didn't get the aftermarket ones back
When you, as a dealer, sells a car, you should make sure that the car is fit for purpose when the customer takes delivery. Leaving faults in it for the customer to fix, like no MOT and defective tyres, just gives them ammunition to reject it. Also, a car shouldn't go damp when you park it for a long time unless you leave a door or window open, so it's probably got a leak from the sun roof or similar.
It's amazing how positive you are being about it, I would be livid.
Is there not an ombudsman you can get to intervene on this one? I can't believe they have comeback after such a long time and return it in that state with loads of other stuff not handed back! I thought Garages were only responsible for the car for 3 months then any warranty insurance the buyer may take out covers from then on?
As an 911 owner for over 15 years, I would never sell old Porsches. They are an expensive liability, just ticking time bombs. I have replaced so much, all standard things going
wrong. From front to back, so much is renewed. Also my tiptronic started playing up. Spent weeks to get valve block overhauled and I replaced solenoids etc. I must have had it apart half a dozen times.
Did you mention in 12 months he's only made one finance payment to the company? If that's the case the finance company probably wants to make it your problem as they don't want to chase him around any longer
They haven't gone through the proper procedures and just returned it without due diligence so surely there is clause to counter their claim?
Sounds like someone bought a porche who couldn't afford to own one! The service history is massive and I bet it will magically reappear if they deduct it from his deposit.
My pal has a 964 and budgets at least a thousand quid per phonecall to his Porsche people. It often isn't that expensive for general stuff but he has been surprised in the past with his 944 and 996T so he's always got a contingency plan!!! 😊
Stand your ground joe. It didn't go out like that.
Personally will never used a warranty Co again. Bought a C4s with warranty good car which had 2 minor problems occur. They made me jump through absolute hoops and then refused to pay. The seller covered to cost, bless them. So negotiate a discount instead, warranties aren’t worth the paper they’re written on!
I tend to agree
5k sounds fair to me, the missing history is the main issue, like you say diff between full hist and none is prob 3k alone!!,, good vid ,keep up the good work👍
I would suggest that the history is worth more than 10% as without it, this makes the car not only worth less, but also harder to sell.
Well done Joe, we're really happy you stood up for yourself against this rogue finance company and unreasonable customer. Hope the very best for you!!
Totally fair. I would be fuming. Especially with the missing service history etc. I would engage a solicitor and claim for their costs against the finance company as well.
Any missing items need to be accounted for
The underlying reason that the buyer has got cold feet in my view is that he will have just received the insurance renewal on the Porsche, which will have undoubtedly skyrocketed in cost from 12 months ago. It is totally wrong for the finance company to expect you to take the vehicle back after such a long time period has elapsed.
Seems a fair claim by you against his deposit. Porsche battery will go flat and then there will be all sorts of fault codes. Anyone doing their research would know this. Who buys a porsche without learning about them? Lovely car. Owned a few myself, love them.
Very interesting - Easy to always side with the buyer. But the car clearly wasn’t returned in the same condition minus any reasonable wear and tear despite what any of the issues may or may not have existed. Really good to se thoughtful video from the dealers point of view
Why can't you claim also for depreciation?
How can this be retuned with no service history- fair enough you can bill for damage, mileage and missing items but you can’t rectify service history 🙄
Deductions seem fair to em, shocking that someone can get the finance company to return a car after nearly a year and then once they agree not return the car compete. I would however like to know if once the errors are cleared and the battery checked/ replaced, if the errors come back.