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I watched that video set back then, I never got you were a Mclaren hater. You were just showing facts that make them look bad but not to hater status. I appreciate your work and angle on the situation.
@@unexpectedfollowthrough5028 ha maybe 😁 But even in this case there wasn’t a reliability fault, just poor workmanship 👍 I think Mclaren is similar to landrover - people who don’t own them just follow a narrative they hear online. Certainly there are issues (as with all brands) but probably less than people believe.
OMG this rings so true. I had a C63S that went in for a first annual service. Driving the few miles home I smelt oil. Once I got home I lifted the bonnet and the oil cap was missing.... Oil everywhere!!! Called Mercedes Oxford who were awesome, recovery truck sent to my home that night, courtesy car left with me. Car fully checked, cleaned, refilled and tested to ensure no damage was done and was back with me the next day. I even have a great dashcam video of the senior mechanic shaking his head at a junior technician. As well as a nice umbrella and hat, more importantly, they sent me a letter of apology to keep me covered if anything did seem wrong in future. People make mistakes. Its an unfortunate but sad truth, BUT its how people resolve those mistakes that set them apart!
That's good to hear. I've only had terrible experiences with the customer service at both Mercedes Loughton and Lakeside. I'm starting to think it's a thing with London dealers. Doesn't matter the brand, I keep experiencing or hearing terrible things. Only exception is Lexus
How does any junior tech even make a glaring mistake like that? When you remove parts, they go in a dedicated bin (or bins). That way nothing is missed. Also, if properly segmented, you'll know if a bolt was left undone at any phase of reassembly--hopefully noticed so not much work is undone to correct the mistake.
@@hellblazer32 Loughton: my car was within warranty when the gauge cluster died. They had to replace it and told me 2 days and said no temporary vehicle available. 7 days later I asked how long and they said another 7 days (14 total). Asked for a temporary vehicle again and was very rudely spoken to. I needed the car to commute. Switched to Lakeside after this. With Lakeside: had a service done. Paid 90 quid for the pollen filters to be replaced (should have saved my money and not been lazy). Brought the car home and pulled the filters for some reason and they hadn't been replaced. Dealer denied any wrong doing. Reported to head office who brushed me off and now it has been with the budsman for about 4 years.
The car had the upper wishbone on that side removed for bush replacment a month prior. In order to remove the upper wishbone, then almost certainly the mechanic would loosen the lower wishbone-subframe bolts. Wishbone-subframe bolts are only tightened with the suspension at ride height (either by having the weight of the car on it's wheels, or the car is on a lift, but you jack up the suspension of the corner you are working on until it is at normal ride height). Tightening the wishbone-subframe bolts with the supension drooping, would leave the bushes under tension all the time the car is on its wheels, a bump in the road would then compress the suspension more and tear the bush. Workflow would be:- Loosen upper & lower wishbone-subframe/body bolts to allow full droop of suspension without fighting against the bushes. Remove and replace upper wishbone Put suspension at normal ride height Tighten wishbone-subframe/body bolts. I suspect that whoever did the job forgot to tighten the lower wishbone-subrame bolts at the end, likely because they had been mostly working on the upper wishbone and thinking about that. It took a month of driving for the loosened bolts to work their way out. A case of I know you did it, you know you did it, but because I can't prove it, you won't take responsibility. Noted. By the way, did anyone actually check that the upper wishbone-body bolts are tight? Maybe they intended to tighten at ride height at the end, got distracted and forgot they hadn't done it for both upper & lower.
Also, wouldnt it makes sense to replace all the control arm bushings? If the uppers are worn or damaged then how far behind can the others be? Just swap the damn things out while youre right there.
James, you just explained the upper bushing repair procedure. Undoing the lower wishbone/sub bolts is necessary. .. So that would point the finger in one direction.. .. The fact the service guy at said dealer said "nope we didn't do that" without first checking, says all you need to know.. .. Clearly the easiest way is to find out what the McLaren workshop technical manual says about this procedure for upper wishbone bush replacement.. Bang to rights.
The Grand Tour is looking for 3 new presenters, now I've just enjoyed listening to a guy for over half an hour talking about 1 bolt. I think you should apply.
If I was a company as high end as Mclaren, I just wouldnt want this type of scenario to be gossiped about in any way shape or form, whether that be on You Tube or by a couple of Mclaren owners down the pub for a catch up. I would expect such an elite brand to just think to themselves "this is one of our products, it's had a fault, it could have been catastrophic AND that exact car has been in our workshop very recently, lets get it back in before the situation gets any worse" .....a damage limitation type approach. As opposed to just a sort of shoulder shrug response.
It's Mclaren, they're probably pissed at JayEmm anyways for the earlier videos. This 720s line was a complete dud lol I almost feel bad for whoever bought the Senna.
They're taking the Ferrari approach: create desirable but flimsy products for the first 50 years and then start making them more reliable. We have a few decades to go yet.....
As a high end bicycle mechanic this (chartwells way) is how we treat any problem one of our customers has with their machine. If we worked on it in any way and it went out the door unsafe, for any reason, we put it right, at our own expense - even if it means opening the shop when we are closed. When you feel looked after by a company - you will use them again, even if they made a mistake. Responsibility does not mean admitting liability, it’s just the correct thing to do.
Not as a car owner but as a breakdown/recovery driver, I have found Chartwells of Derby to be a fantastic company to deal with. Whether dressed to the 9's or wearing a company uniform you are treated the same....brilliantly. Upon entering the yard to drop off or collect a vehicle, nothing, and I mean NOTHING is too much trouble. They will help you out any way they can for the job to be done as smoothly as possible. The same as yourself, it would be amazing if more companies upheld this business model and took ownership of issues ( good or bad ) and in so doing made this country's industry more like it used to be....1st class.
@@JayEmmOnCars Do all staff at this particular branch have a similar attitude? It would be a shame if one particular member of staff was letting the side down.
@@ryzmodzI deduce it’s not a single individual because any sane business would have invited such a person to find a new job. I suppose it could be so, if the individual was also the owner / proprietor. However, my recollection of James’ interactions with the firm would exclude it being the manager. Managers don’t hover around waiting to accept incoming calls. I’m still shaking my head about how it could possibly be that the same dealer centrally involved in one major fiasco five years ago, which caught up three cars at least & now another concerning event, which could have led to fatalities.
@@ryzmodz The response should have been how can we help not the nothing to do with us response you got. Buying an expensive car should lead to a great relationship, which in turn will sell more cars. The guy at McLaren Knutsford should be sacked.
So basically is it the mclaren dealer who’s responsible for the bolt saga? Or is it the other dealer chartwells? I mean chartwells did an amazing job but are they responsible? I watched the whole video so yeah maybe the mclaren dealer was at fault right?
McLaren Manchester never seem to cover themselves in glory. Their customer service is absolutely terrible. Prospective McLaren owners should definitely choose a different dealer
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I suspect that they spend so much time salivating over premier ship footballers, that, when the 'normals' come in they view them as some form of zombie.
Whilst there is clearly no relation whatsoever between this and my previous dealings with them, their refusal to take any Form of action given what happened was fairly shocking
@@JayEmmOnCars It’s disgraceful. Not even considering the matter, speaking to the technician or reviewing CCTV is dreadful service. McLaren need to sell a lot of cars to clear their debt and McLaren Manchester (showroom Handforth, service about 8 miles away in Knutsford) are putting people off the brand.
I've never dealt with Chartwells from a customers point of view but I recover cars into them fairly regularly. I've always found them friendly and professional. When I arrive at some other garages, they reluctantly open a gate and say to "just drop the car anywhere you can mate" before walking off. The staff at Chartwells are always willing to assist, move cars to make space and generally be happy and show that they care. It doesn't surprise me that they have sorted this unfortunate situation. Glad it happened how it did, it really could have been much worse.
I don't care how one garage fixed the issue possibly caused by another. All I gather, from your video, is that somewhere in the McLaren service system, someone was negligent and could have killed you and others in a road crash.
I agree with you being a McLaren car, McLaren Manchester should have taken up the charge and dealt with the issue even if it meant charging the guys just to make sure their product is safe
I used to read a comic called Viz (you may know it) there was this character called Terry F..kwitt, I'm getting the impression he actually bred like mad and now his offspring work for many many companies and government departments.
It can be expensive, and costs can creep up very easily, but I take my Ferrari to a specialist to check every screw, bolt, pipe, clip, etc. Have it on a ramp, remove wheels and look everywhere. Dealers are part swappers and would spill oil on an engine and not bother cleaning it off. James, I know of that infamous McLaren video but I have not seen it. I am a member to support all the amazing vids you do, and do not care what membership adds for me-I am just giving a little back. If you ever get stuck in the Surrey area, give me a message and I'll pick you up
i’d inspect the bolt holes for damage as well. The suspension being loose means the bolts may have banged around within the bolt holes and distorted them.
That McLaren Manchester revelation is just so perfect as the punchline for the video. How Sytner Group has any audacity of staying in business with that kind of service is beyond me.
@@eric-wb7gj I'd say that if McLaren Manchester has the same attitude to customers (still) since the last video Jayemm did about the service they provided when his two friends bought brand new cars then this is a problems for McLaren UK Woking.
@@TheKARMMARK Fair point. We don't know though if Woking stepped in last time, they got better, & due to various reasons, they've recently got worse as a whole, or if it's a recent one off. I wonder how many issues JM raised initially 5 years ago, have been sorted across the company, that'd be a good video!
@@SpawnyWhippetTo me it tells a story about McLaren the car company if they allow dealers like McLaren Manchester to sell their wares. Reputable companies care not only about factory quality control but about the service their dealers offer. What's been done here by Manchester is ludicrous, you can't take McLaren seriously anymore. It's a Meme brand.
Not only not annoyed by the length of the video, it's one of the best things you've done. Quality operations like Chartwell's are growing thinner and thinner on the ground, and thus it's all the more important to point them out.
Class act from Chartwell. Absolutely shocking (again) from McLaren Manchester. Completely demonstrates the entire problem with the franchise dealership model. On a separate note, I found your channel through that original video - can’t believe it’s been 5 years! Keep up the great work!
A good friend of mine invited me to go with him on a track day and share driving his McLaren 720s. He also done a little bit of modifying, exhaust performance type stuff. We drove the car about 150 Mi to the track, beat the piss out of the car all day long, and then he drove it home. He kept it for a few more months and then sold it. Maybe he was one of the lucky ones, but he never had a problem with it and the car was absolutely amazing on track.
James, I don't think there are many other content creators with the story telling ability to keep me engaged for 35 minutes with you stood still, no drag races, no sideways action, just a genuinely excellent raconteur. I'd maybe let Mr Metcalf into that group, bugger me, I sat absolutely enthralled about the 2024 harvest last week. Keep doing your thing man, it is good.
My thoughts exactly. I would have told this story in 3 minutes and it'd have been boring. And here we are at 35 minutes absolutely captivated. Amazing story telling.
Phew... And I thought that it was only me who secretly watches Harry's Farm and Garage! Yep Harry keeps me enthralled but fair play James that was well told.
This is the 1st time i have ever commented on a youtube video but felt i had to. My mclaren went for its annual service at mclaren manchester recently, i picked it up after the service, drove home to north wales and parked it up in my garage, few days later went to go out for a drive and noticed a big puddle of oil on the floor underneath the car, i think you know where i am going with this, luckily i have a 2 post ramp, raised the car and removed the undertray and found the sump plug loose. tightened it to correct torque and problem solved. Mclaren manchester have had all the evidence with photos etc and they now will not even return my calls hoping that i will just go away. This is not the only issue ive had with service at mclaren manchester, its so concering that i dread taking the car to Mclaren Manchester for any work to be done to my car. To sumnarise, like me, you already know it was Mclaren manchester that didnt tighten those wishbone bolts. Mclaren cars are fantastic and i am sure that not Mclaren Service Centres are bad, i would love to know where i can take my mclaren for its next service where i trust it would be in safe hands. Great video by the way.
Hi there Mr Superwomble. I am not a McLaren owner but it may be worth considering the Leeds dealership. 2 Aire Valley Drive, Temple Green, Leeds, LS9 0AA. It probably not that much further. Have look around on the net and see if they have a good reputation. Good luck and I personally would NOT trust the Manchester branch to make a cup of coffee 😮👍
@@purpleotter10Or maybe they pay their staff a pittance and don’t train them properly. We can only speculate what went wrong but their reputation is likely to bury them as a business.
Wow, that is wild.... You sent them photos and they just ignored you? Not a "we are sorry, we'll discount your next service, etc...." That's a bad dealership....
I had a lap booked in a 720S, at a rather famous very green racetrack. It had broken down. So I caught a lap in a 600LT instead. The 600LT had only just come back into service....after it's engine loom caught fire. End of anecdote.
They should have taken the car straight back and done all the work and for the safety inspection. As they are still in the spotlight for this debacle. Not just naaa not us
When you said it lurched in a violent fashion under breaking i knew straight away a bolt had come out of the car. I had to follow my friend with a similar issue he was limping it to the mechanic we ended up on a 90kph road and ive never seen a car swerve all 3 lanes in such dramatic fashion before... This was an old mk4 golf sport with over 100,000k on the clock the fact a low mileage McLaren can a similar thing is terrifying 😮😮😮
I had a very similar experience from an Aston Martin main dealer in the UK when both ends of my steering arm suddenly lost their bolts. It took about a month of them refusing to say it was them, but after I said if it wasn’t them, then every single car needs to recalled as this would mean it is manufacturing defect, they finally admitted it was them and fixed the car. Very very frustrating and scary. Thankfully, very similar to you, it happened in a car park, and not on the motorway I had been seconds earlier.
Agreed. They appear to deserve the promotion, although I've no doubt any smart MD would have been able to have thought ahead and seen the benefits. I would take my car there.
@@24ct_G You can't possibly know that, so it's a moot point - the fact is they acted and sorted the problem. That's a massive positive. I've had similar positive experiences at various specialists and I'm a nobody!!!
@@24ct_G You may well be right but McLaren Manchester must have known as well. Yet they decided to do nothing but pi$$ off the customer. With the parts at cost it would have cost about £750 to keep a customer happy. Short sited!
@@rjdavies1982 until James sent the email stating who he was and what he was doing he was getting short shrift from them. I think it's very reasonable to draw the conclusion Angus has. while the MD deserves some credit for eventually taking responsibility, his claim that he had previously knew nothing about their attempts to have them repair the car may be true but it also may not be true. either way those who they dealt with initially were deserving of any credit.
@@24ct_G Manchester told everyone to F off, Chartwell at least cares enough about their reputation to protect their good name. Do you think they enjoyed spending their money to fix someone else's mistake?
Huge shout out to Chartwells - with that attitude their reputation and success will only grow. On the other hand,McClaren Manchester showed no interest in investigating possible wrongdoing in their service department that could have caused a catastrophic failure at 200mph on an autobahn. For me, the takeaway from this is stay away from McClaren Manchester - they don’t seem to care about the customer or the standard of their work and that’s a potentially fatal recipe when you’re dealing with cars that can approach the top speed of an F1 car.
I don’t normally listen to lengthy explanations as to what happened and why it happened, but I will say I had to keep on listening to the very end. You did a remarkable job of explaining this from start to finish so well done.
James, I appreciate the your clear, detailed reporting of the sequence of events and the technical details, and the care you take of describing your experience with each of the players in the story. No room for misunderstanding. If you’re ever in Texas you’re invited to drive my 1930 Ford Model A in the beautiful San Antonio Hill Country.
@@JayEmmOnCarsFlorida and Texas are my favourite states. Friendly people, especially outside the biggest cities. I used to visit NYC, Boston and San Francisco very often on business but I don’t intend ever to visit those cities again.
@@JayEmmOnCars Texas is amazing. Would be great on a feature about the huge ass trucks and everything having a V8 as standard :) Hill country is beautiful.
I have 4. Three LTs (600, 675, 765) and one 720S and I have never had a mechanical fault with any of them. Your problem was caused by the carelessness of a dealer’s technician , not the fault or poor reliability of McLaren.
I have a McLaren, albeit a 12C. Apart from a soft close door look failing and aircon leak, only servicing in 32 month. Not too bad for a 12 year old car. I don’t use a Mc dealership. I go to a brilliant independent. McLaren’s don’t need to cost a fortune to run.
Watch a video by you 2 years ago and I subscribed because I think you're one of the most honest automotive journalist I've experienced. But even beyond that initial observation Ive come to realized that you are simply a very good human being. This particular episode is exemporatory of that very nature. I must say not only exceptional but one of the best videos I've had experienced in recent memory of the last 30 years of the social media. Never be more than you are! You You have impeccable character! The very best qualities for success. Very very good. I'm surprised you're not already beyond 1 million subscribers!
I had a very different recovery experience. In 1980 I had an Allegro estate, I took it to France on holiday and on the way back It broke down in Calais, the water pump having thrown a bearing. When we arrived in Dover it was about 12:15, we went to the Austin garage next to the docks, only to discover that it had closed at noon and it was the Saturday of August Bank Holiday. As I was in the RAC I called them, they carried me back to North Wales on the back of a lorry. If I had been in the AA I would have probably spent a couple of days in various laybys, but the RAC used a contractor and did the job with one lorry. The driver told me as he was winching the car that he had just finished a 12 hour shift on the docks! He only stopped once in the probably 6 hour journey, for a coffee at Sandbach services. After dropping me off at my house he left to return to Dover, declining the offer of a break, saying he had to get back to do his next shift on the Docks!! The repair was easy the RAC contractor had taken off the old pump and shown me how to replace it, so the day after the bank holiday I bought a pump from the local dealer for about £20 and fitted it myself. Sorted..
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Ah the Allegro. My parents had a mustard coloured one. I didn't know they made an estate.
In the past 7 years or so I've had very different experiences with the RAC. Ranging from a clutch slave cylinder failure 15 minutes from home, for which I was told I'd need to wait 4 hours for recovery and the driver actually arrived within 20 minutes - all the way through to an ETA of a few hours for a water ingestion issue some 10 minutes from home, a truck turned up unable to load my lowered Accord (which James has previously reviewed, the front no lower or more overhanging than most Modern BMW M cars) - the car finally got recovered at 11am the following morning, some 14 hours after the breakdown. That said, I've also had straight simple recoveries home (with even lower cars), and even had one RAC Patrol recover my Del Sol, with engine failure, and ignore the request to relay recover it from the side of Junction 2 of the A14, via Leicester Forest East, to Derby. The last chap I mentioned there went on to leave the RAC and go self employed, and I've used him for the years since to move everything I own - if anybody's curious, the company is called Dally Drive, run by a chap called Mark and if you ever need anything recovering, I cannot recommend them enough. Realistically breakdown companies have to hold themselves to a higher standard.
I've seen it said that the estate version of the Allegro was the reason we didn't get the estate/giardinetta version of the Alfasud here in the UK as they were thought to look too similar.
Whilst watching this video I thought of a similar thing that happened to us in the 70s. The RAC would take you all the way home, the AA would pass you pillar to post.
It doesn't matter if you sell Fiat's or Ferrari's. What matters is that you care about what you're offering and the customers you're selling to. It's very clear that McLaren of Manchester didn't give a toss 5 years ago and certainly don't give a toss now.
Frankly, this was actually a case of extreme negligence potentially leading to fatalities. Similar mistakes have been the subject of episodes of Air Crash Investigation.
Glad you’re still here. Things could’ve been much worse. I know the drama with Manchester and the whole ordeal was frustrating. But let’s be real. You’re a lucky boy.
J, good stuff. Slightly tested my attention span but some good points made. Reputation is priceless, in the sense that you can't buy it. Always glad to hear kind words for good people. Safe driving!
Blimey, Chartwells really stepped up to the plate there, speaks volumes. When you buy a top end car, you are not paying just for the superior vehicle, you are paying for superior service too. It seems even then, you have to shop around.
Not holding British companies to account is why so many British companies are run by dodgy geezers (water companies as an example). So well done. Love your honesty. Thanks.
I've had a similarly negative experience with Lexus Dundee. I recently bought a 2012 Lexus LS600hL and immediately booked it in to Lexus Dundee for a major service. They sent a driver to collect the car from my house where he carried out a pre-collection inspection during which I pointed out all the known light scratch marks, improperly fitting front bumper, and some surface damage to the leather on the bolster of the driver's seat. When they returned the car I noticed what looked like a deposit of some sort of polish or wax on the upper edge of the trim surrounding the infotainment system. I wiped this off only to discover it wasn't a deposit of any kind but had been the curled up scrapings from the matt coating on the trim. This had exposed the bright shiny plastic beneath the coating which was very easily seen, especially from the driver's seat position. Lexus Dundee are not taking responsibility for the damage. Apparently a replacement part costs £17,500. I do not know if it will be possible to repair the damage, but it's far more important to me that they take responsibility and use the situation to review their procedures. They also returned the car with 2 missing engine cover clips and additional damage to the front bumper, both of which they have accepted responsibility for. Clearly there is a serious problem with the service department at Lexus Dundee. The last time I discussed this with them on the phone they hung up on me when I challenged their assertion that I had not shown the driver the interior of the car during the pre-collection inspection. I had shown him the only damage to the interior, that being the leather bolster, and surely this is the job of the person collecting the car. The situation is still unresolved. So far it's the worst customer service I've had from any garage, and there is some pretty strong competition!
17:54 before this sentence came up and it was somewhat leading to "caused by an improper service" I thought to myself, "Hey what are the odds its the same McLaren Manchester that Jay shat on for being terrible?" Lo and behold, I am an oracle.
regardless of who was at fault, if it went to the dealership to get a service its their responsibility to inspect the suspension. especially if they work on it, they should be checking all bolts in the area.
The AA are a joke it took 3 recovery vehicles to travel the odd 100 or so miles to take my sisters bmw x5 that suffered a puncture back to north east London. She had her 3 children with her, credit to the drivers who wanted to just take her from point a to b, but because the AA only permitted each recovery driver to cover a set region she had to wait for each transfer to the next truck and the whole process took several hours and well into the early hours of the next day. That’s why I’m an RAC member and they have never let me down on the odd occasion something unexpected happened.
@@JayEmmOnCarsused to take calls for the RAC in customer service back in 2017, the amount of “I’m broken down on the side of the road and I’ve been here 4 hours on the hard shoulder of a motorway” calls were actually quite alarming!
@@JayEmmOnCarsRAC member here, my last three experiences with them have been shocking. The techs who come out to calls are always lovely, but despite RAC marketing saying they have an average response time of 60 minutes, I've never got a patrol to me within three hours. They're also always desperate to send a patrol, even when you tell them the vehicle is not repairable roadside. Cue a 3hr wait for a patrol, just for them to shrug and tell you it's needs recovering - something I already knew. Add the wait for a recovery and I can say that if you break down and need the RAC, expect it to cost you your entire day...
@JayEmmOnCars RAC are so much worse, I've been absolutely screwed by them twice never again. I'll stick with the AA and just accept that they're a bit shite Once waited 14hrs for a tow and then spent 5hrs between 4 different flatbed cabs before being presented with a mint green fiat 500 for my 10hr drive home from Edinburgh (which looked amd drove like itd been written off 3 times)
a 40 minute video summed up in a few words : he took the car to an independent shop and then a mclaren dealer, somebody forgot to put in two bolts in the suspension, mclaren dealer distanced themselves from it while the other shop put in new bolts and inspected the car again.
@@thedirtyscotTV Then there's the inconsistencies - parked in a lay-by (after the roundabout out) then talks like he was parked up against the kerb on a unlit B road - with all the attendant drama.
What a great video. I had a saga with Audi and an a6 where the injectors failed. Fuel was sent for scientific tests as if I would use dodgy diesel in a fairly new car, then Audi Germany disagreed with their own testing and sent out a kit by post to test it again. Long long story
I was staying at that Travelodge that night (I'm actually there right now) - just forwarded the video to the staff here lol. Been enjoying your videos all afternoon - was so surprised to see you were here. Keep up the good work!
Well done chartwells of Derby. This is why they are expensive and also always busy. And I bet the owner would insist on it going back to them if it needed any other body work in the future.
I wish companies would just understand and accept that customer service is one of the most valuable investments you can possibly make. I recently had to buy some dress clothes for a presentation, and I probably went to five different stores looking for a dress shirt and pants. The very last store I went to, J Crew, I was immediately greeted by two ladies who were working there. They asked me what I was looking for, found me exactly what I was looking for, found my sizes, gave me different options, and helped me make decisions. As a guy who doesn’t regularly shop for dress clothes, it was a bit daunting trying to put something together myself. The help from the employees made all the difference for me and I ended up spending around $250 at the store. But what’s more is I will go back there every time I need dress clothes, and I will recommend it to anybody I know, looking for clothes in the future
The video says it all. “Look after the customer” A happy customer, is a repeat customer. And a great owner by the sounds of it. A fantastic car. And Jayemm, a great content creator.
I completely trust your judgment and honesty, so t here's no question in my mind that those are splendid cars. I nevertheless cannot imagine wanting to own one. The costs are insane and my my patience is vast but not limitless. I'm very happy that you're unscathed after what could have been so much worse.
If you buy of one the generally more reliable models and take it to a reputable place for servicing etc, I think the costs and headaches shouldnt be *that* much worse than other brands in the same class?
James, worthy of note is your personal stance and that of Guy. Not to mention the way you constructed your arguments. Very well done. Its nice when things turn good. So, you and Guy savour the moment when the planets alligned. Lets hope Hatfield and the repairer reep the rewards with carma. The story does actually mirror my own life at the mo'. But won't go into that. Bw Mike in the Black Forest.
@@EvoraGT430 they are fantastic cars. McLaren Leeds have been utterly brilliant to deal with, as have Thorney Motorsport near Silverstone. The whole brand doesn’t need to be tainted just because of one average, or sub average dealership.
@@EXS720 "they are fantastic cars" I think the depreciation on McLarens paints a more accurate picture than your statement, coming from an owner. Maybe if you had the misfortune to deal with a dishonest dealer you would feel differently.
This is the first video that I see from you. Never heard of you before today. I must say, I really like your vids. You just explain everything a bit different from any other youtubers. Big like !
Jay, one positive way of looking at this is that you may have saved your friend's life. Had it happened when your friend was driving at high speed this could have been very serious indeed.
A VW dealer rotated the wheels on my Passat, and a couple of days later the bolts all worked loose and wheel came off. Luckily at only 20MPH. They hadn't tightened the wheel nuts. They fixed all the damage and lend me a car to use. However, they never apologised or admitted responsibility. They were so scared of being sued that they would rather lose a customer than admit fault and treat him correctly. Needless to say I have never been back to that dealership, or bought another VW.
As stated elsewhere, this is not a manufacturer problem, but a dealership problem. Always report any dealership issues to the manufacturer head office, in writing using registered mail, as well as by email. If this happened to the dealership mentioned here for every issue they almost certainly caused, perhaps something would be done about it.
My local JCT600 VW dealer are that bad they couldn’t even fix my key which I did with some liquid soap and 2 mins of perseverance, it’s been in numerous times sometimes for days, without fixes. The last time I sent it in I took the senior tech out, full road test, all agreed it needs a high pressure fuel pump. Came back to the car, yeah we’re not changing it 😂
James I have to congratulate you. Your videos are more informative professional and entertaining than anything in the mainstream. I'm amazed they haven't brought Top Gear back with you at the helm. It would be a huge success. Thank you.
You laughing while saying you " really had the whole McLaren experience" sums it all up nicely, interesting story, keep up the great work and cheers from Kingston, Ontario
Positive news that Hatfield MCL seem to be a good dealer , yet again Manchester MCL damage the ownership experience for what are awesome cars . Kudos to Chartwells stepping up as well , let’s support the decent companies and let the bad ones raise their game or disappear
James , excellent video / report , had me glued ! Great Sunday morning watch …. Guys grey 720s has me thinking that I need to think about one before i get sensible !! Keep up the great videos !!
Hey James. At first I must admit, I though “c’mon, click bait isn’t your usual style”. As such, foolishly began to fast forward to find the punchline. Sad that I did, and that I doubted you - and rewound to watch like I should have done in the first place! What an amazing, informative and heartfelt video. I shall never doubt you again!! 😂
James loves a bit of clickbait, that's definitely his style! The 3 videos before this are "Porsche's Arrogance", "Toyota's Most Pointless Car" and "The Greatest Driver's Car of the Millenium?" - that's 100% full-on clickbait. It's never unfounded though and he does tell a good story, so no problem with phrasing a valid comment in the most dramatic way possible to get attention, at least on TH-cam (whereas news sites should stop doing that nonsense).
Interesting titles do bait clicks, but titles and thumbnails need to be deceptive, sensationalized, or otherwise misleading to be classified as "clickbait."
@@JayEmmOnCars Google gives the below definition of clickbait, by which yes it's all clickbait. However, it would be better to have a clearly different definition for dishonest clickbait since that doesn't apply here. Definition: "content whose main purpose is to attract attention and encourage visitors to click on a link to a particular web page." The annoying ones are "you definitely didn't know these 5 things!!!" (except anyone vaguely interested in the topic probably did). Or "look at this incredible thing" with a clearly fake picture.
@@JayEmmOnCarsI thought it was “appropriate bait”, if I may coin this clumsy phrase. I felt for you when you realized that you were going to have to interact with McLaren Manchester again, about a broken car that they’d worked on. In any sane world, the brand should have removed the franchise from them. Not doing anything leaves customers & more importantly for McLaren, potential customers, with the unmistakable impression that you’d be buying one of these cars, literally at your own risk. I chose a Porsche as my first (& possibly only) sports car. I bought a classic 911 from an independent specialist whose TH-cam channel I’d watched for a couple of years (frankly, before I’d even thought of buying a car i don’t need, but found gradually I wanted). I know so little empirically about this field that this next is a guess. You will get excellent customer service from firms whose dealer network has consistently excellent customer feedback. A brand which tolerates customer service such as you have described (years ago, in relation to your father and son friends & again now) is a brand I’d never buy into. They don’t deserve my business. Of the many brilliant things about Porsche (and I promise I am in no danger of becoming a Porsche bore, there’s no room in my heart for more than Suzuki motorcycles ❤), one is that the build quality of 996s is literally breathtaking. The other is the network of independent specialists is so large and well established that you’d struggle to be far from one.
Those who invest in a vehicle of this caliber expect nothing less than exceptional service. It is deeply disappointing to witness such a failure in meeting that standard. McLaren should dismiss the employee in question, as their actions reflect a profound misunderstanding of the values inherent in a luxury brand.
Brilliant video. Even if you’re not in the market for a McLaren (let’s face it most of us aren’t), this is a great way to know how people/customers are treated.
I can echo your experiences with the AA, James. If you need roadside assistance they are not too bad but if you need vehicle recovery they are pretty terrible outside of the main motorway network. My M3 broke down in Dover and it took me 16 hours to get recovered back home at which point I was utterly exhausted. It was just luck I broke down next to a BP as I could park up and get some food and go to the bathroom. I would have been in a much worse position if I'd broken down on the motorway. Lo and behold, they wanted to almost treble my renewal quote at the end of the year as well.
I had a poor experience when I bought a Mercedes C63 W205 (2015) from Mercedes Benz Brooklands. Essentially the oil cooler is mounted under the engine facing the road and there is no shield or mesh fitted from the factor. Driving 40 mph on a dual carriageway and a stone from the road punctured the oil cooler and all of the oil leaked out. I had no idea until the engine started sounding like metal churning metal. Apparently there is no oil pressure sensor fitted on this model so a puncture leak won’t be picked up. All I had was a basic message come up on the dash saying add 1 litre of oil when next refuelling. Anyway the engine went pop and Mercedes Colindale (where it was recovered to) quoted me £43k for an engine replacement. Mercedes never took responsibility for the design flaw. I lost time, energy, weight and peace of mind worrying about how to solve the issue. Ultimately escalated to the Ombudsman and 18 months later was made whole. Poor form from Mercedes.
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Disappointed you didn’t go to town on McLaren Manchester who frankly shouldn’t be in business
60 mph..........70 mph 😃😃😃😃😃
The original McLaren series is when I discovered your channel, oh the long and winding road
You still need to check the registration and VIN are on the correct car.
I watched that video set back then, I never got you were a Mclaren hater. You were just showing facts that make them look bad but not to hater status. I appreciate your work and angle on the situation.
The unthinkable would be it working perfectly
😅😅😅😅
Mine has never let me down in 3 years 🙂
@@MarkB4444even a blind squirrel occasionally finds its nuts!
@@MarkB4444 have you double checked every single bolt is still attached to the car recently? 🤣🤣 A few may be missed that you'll never notice.
@@unexpectedfollowthrough5028 ha maybe 😁 But even in this case there wasn’t a reliability fault, just poor workmanship 👍 I think Mclaren is similar to landrover - people who don’t own them just follow a narrative they hear online. Certainly there are issues (as with all brands) but probably less than people believe.
OMG this rings so true.
I had a C63S that went in for a first annual service. Driving the few miles home I smelt oil.
Once I got home I lifted the bonnet and the oil cap was missing.... Oil everywhere!!!
Called Mercedes Oxford who were awesome, recovery truck sent to my home that night, courtesy car left with me. Car fully checked, cleaned, refilled and tested to ensure no damage was done and was back with me the next day. I even have a great dashcam video of the senior mechanic shaking his head at a junior technician.
As well as a nice umbrella and hat, more importantly, they sent me a letter of apology to keep me covered if anything did seem wrong in future.
People make mistakes. Its an unfortunate but sad truth, BUT its how people resolve those mistakes that set them apart!
You're so right, we all make mistakes, it's just how you act in response to the mistake.
That's good to hear. I've only had terrible experiences with the customer service at both Mercedes Loughton and Lakeside. I'm starting to think it's a thing with London dealers. Doesn't matter the brand, I keep experiencing or hearing terrible things. Only exception is Lexus
How does any junior tech even make a glaring mistake like that? When you remove parts, they go in a dedicated bin (or bins). That way nothing is missed. Also, if properly segmented, you'll know if a bolt was left undone at any phase of reassembly--hopefully noticed so not much work is undone to correct the mistake.
@@TheFlyingClutchman Don't get me started with Lakeside! Loughton were fine for me but I was introduced to a guy in there via a friend.
@@hellblazer32
Loughton: my car was within warranty when the gauge cluster died. They had to replace it and told me 2 days and said no temporary vehicle available. 7 days later I asked how long and they said another 7 days (14 total). Asked for a temporary vehicle again and was very rudely spoken to. I needed the car to commute. Switched to Lakeside after this.
With Lakeside: had a service done. Paid 90 quid for the pollen filters to be replaced (should have saved my money and not been lazy). Brought the car home and pulled the filters for some reason and they hadn't been replaced. Dealer denied any wrong doing. Reported to head office who brushed me off and now it has been with the budsman for about 4 years.
As a mechanic, I'm 1000% blaming Manchester.
I'm disgusted about the way you were treated by them, unbelievable.
I think if a mechanic skins his knuckles, the designer should be dismantled whilst fully awake...
Obvious all the way over here in Indiana, USA. 🇺🇸 👍
@@stonward👍
The car had the upper wishbone on that side removed for bush replacment a month prior. In order to remove the upper wishbone, then almost certainly the mechanic would loosen the lower wishbone-subframe bolts.
Wishbone-subframe bolts are only tightened with the suspension at ride height (either by having the weight of the car on it's wheels, or the car is on a lift, but you jack up the suspension of the corner you are working on until it is at normal ride height). Tightening the wishbone-subframe bolts with the supension drooping, would leave the bushes under tension all the time the car is on its wheels, a bump in the road would then compress the suspension more and tear the bush.
Workflow would be:-
Loosen upper & lower wishbone-subframe/body bolts to allow full droop of suspension without fighting against the bushes.
Remove and replace upper wishbone
Put suspension at normal ride height
Tighten wishbone-subframe/body bolts.
I suspect that whoever did the job forgot to tighten the lower wishbone-subrame bolts at the end, likely because they had been mostly working on the upper wishbone and thinking about that. It took a month of driving for the loosened bolts to work their way out.
A case of I know you did it, you know you did it, but because I can't prove it, you won't take responsibility. Noted.
By the way, did anyone actually check that the upper wishbone-body bolts are tight? Maybe they intended to tighten at ride height at the end, got distracted and forgot they hadn't done it for both upper & lower.
Also, wouldnt it makes sense to replace all the control arm bushings? If the uppers are worn or damaged then how far behind can the others be? Just swap the damn things out while youre right there.
James, you just explained the upper bushing repair procedure.
Undoing the lower wishbone/sub bolts is necessary.
..
So that would point the finger in one direction..
..
The fact the service guy at said dealer said "nope we didn't do that"
without first checking, says all you need to know..
..
Clearly the easiest way is to find out what the McLaren workshop technical manual says about this procedure for upper wishbone bush replacement..
Bang to rights.
Yeah, it looks pretty damn likely that the dealership that worked on that exact corner of the car did indeed cause the problem.
It's odd how they'd miss it. You'd expect them to balance it after any suspension work. Very very odd that it is even possible to make such an error.
You don't need to touch the lower arm bushes to change the top arms.
Moral of the story:
Avoid McLaren, Manchester.
Use Chartwells, Derby.
Just avoid McLaren in general.
Rather have a Wraith anyhoos....
Uuuuuh no, not even close, avoid looking dumb driving a car where the side mirrors cost over 10,000 to replace.
Hey! It's the guy who works at Chartwells! 😂
Jk.
@@tropicthndr or avoid buying a car of which headlights cost £160K (roughly one of these used mclaren price) a piece like a bugatti... :)
The Grand Tour is looking for 3 new presenters, now I've just enjoyed listening to a guy for over half an hour talking about 1 bolt.
I think you should apply.
Absolutely. That's ½ hour out of my life that I will never get back.
If I was a company as high end as Mclaren, I just wouldnt want this type of scenario to be gossiped about in any way shape or form, whether that be on You Tube or by a couple of Mclaren owners down the pub for a catch up.
I would expect such an elite brand to just think to themselves "this is one of our products, it's had a fault, it could have been catastrophic AND that exact car has been in our workshop very recently, lets get it back in before the situation gets any worse" .....a damage limitation type approach. As opposed to just a sort of shoulder shrug response.
It's Mclaren, they're probably pissed at JayEmm anyways for the earlier videos. This 720s line was a complete dud lol I almost feel bad for whoever bought the Senna.
McLaren are experts of the shoulder shrug. Legend has it the French ask them for tips on how to do it
They're taking the Ferrari approach: create desirable but flimsy products for the first 50 years and then start making them more reliable. We have a few decades to go yet.....
I'm not sure that they are that organized
Ditto. It’s unfathomable that the two dealers weren’t competing to take responsibility.
As a high end bicycle mechanic this (chartwells way) is how we treat any problem one of our customers has with their machine.
If we worked on it in any way and it went out the door unsafe, for any reason, we put it right, at our own expense - even if it means opening the shop when we are closed.
When you feel looked after by a company - you will use them again, even if they made a mistake.
Responsibility does not mean admitting liability, it’s just the correct thing to do.
Wow, a spin-off sequel to the McLaren saga from a few years ago. MCU must stand for the McLaren Cinematic Universe at this point
Haha, I like it
Mclaren Comedic Universe more like
@@colinscutt5104McLaren Catastrophic Universe more like it...
More entertaining than Marvel imo
@@colinscutt5104brutal
Not as a car owner but as a breakdown/recovery driver, I have found Chartwells of Derby to be a fantastic company to deal with. Whether dressed to the 9's or wearing a company uniform you are treated the same....brilliantly. Upon entering the yard to drop off or collect a vehicle, nothing, and I mean NOTHING is too much trouble. They will help you out any way they can for the job to be done as smoothly as possible. The same as yourself, it would be amazing if more companies upheld this business model and took ownership of issues ( good or bad ) and in so doing made this country's industry more like it used to be....1st class.
McLaren Manchester strikes again! Extremely poor to deny all responsibility without even looking into it.
Yep. Must say I was surprised. I fully expected them to want to get it dealt with and sorted ASAP
@@JayEmmOnCars Do all staff at this particular branch have a similar attitude? It would be a shame if one particular member of staff was letting the side down.
@@ryzmodzI deduce it’s not a single individual because any sane business would have invited such a person to find a new job.
I suppose it could be so, if the individual was also the owner / proprietor.
However, my recollection of James’ interactions with the firm would exclude it being the manager. Managers don’t hover around waiting to accept incoming calls.
I’m still shaking my head about how it could possibly be that the same dealer centrally involved in one major fiasco five years ago, which caught up three cars at least & now another concerning event, which could have led to fatalities.
@@ryzmodz The response should have been how can we help not the nothing to do with us response you got. Buying an expensive car should lead to a great relationship, which in turn will sell more cars. The guy at McLaren Knutsford should be sacked.
So basically is it the mclaren dealer who’s responsible for the bolt saga? Or is it the other dealer chartwells? I mean chartwells did an amazing job but are they responsible? I watched the whole video so yeah maybe the mclaren dealer was at fault right?
I think any ad for a McLaren with "Full Dealer Service History" is about the only brand where that would make you run a mile 🤣
😁 Ha. yep
WORD! Makes a RR look like a Honda....
Nah, Ford. Pretty sure they never changed my oil haha
thats probably the issue. my McLaren 570 is in KMs. :)
🤣
McLaren Manchester never seem to cover themselves in glory. Their customer service is absolutely terrible. Prospective McLaren owners should definitely choose a different dealer
I suspect that they spend so much time salivating over premier ship footballers, that, when the 'normals' come in they view them as some form of zombie.
They’ve not got enough bad press frankly
Whilst there is clearly no relation whatsoever between this and my previous dealings with them, their refusal to take any Form of action given what happened was fairly shocking
@@JayEmmOnCars It’s disgraceful. Not even considering the matter, speaking to the technician or reviewing CCTV is dreadful service. McLaren need to sell a lot of cars to clear their debt and McLaren Manchester (showroom Handforth, service about 8 miles away in Knutsford) are putting people off the brand.
@@JayEmmOnCars “no relation” let’s be honest. Theres always a pattern of behaviours
I've never dealt with Chartwells from a customers point of view but I recover cars into them fairly regularly.
I've always found them friendly and professional.
When I arrive at some other garages, they reluctantly open a gate and say to "just drop the car anywhere you can mate" before walking off. The staff at Chartwells are always willing to assist, move cars to make space and generally be happy and show that they care. It doesn't surprise me that they have sorted this unfortunate situation.
Glad it happened how it did, it really could have been much worse.
I don't care how one garage fixed the issue possibly caused by another. All I gather, from your video, is that somewhere in the McLaren service system, someone was negligent and could have killed you and others in a road crash.
It's surprising how crap they can be
I agree with you being a McLaren car, McLaren Manchester should have taken up the charge and dealt with the issue even if it meant charging the guys just to make sure their product is safe
I used to read a comic called Viz (you may know it) there was this character called Terry F..kwitt, I'm getting the impression he actually bred like mad and now his offspring work for many many companies and government departments.
@@MF-jp5vpI miss some of my favourite characters in VIZ 🫣
@@nmvi226wankers
Proving once again you are one of the finest automotive story tellers on TH-cam. Loved this video 😂
It can be expensive, and costs can creep up very easily, but I take my Ferrari to a specialist to check every screw, bolt, pipe, clip, etc. Have it on a ramp, remove wheels and look everywhere. Dealers are part swappers and would spill oil on an engine and not bother cleaning it off.
James, I know of that infamous McLaren video but I have not seen it. I am a member to support all the amazing vids you do, and do not care what membership adds for me-I am just giving a little back. If you ever get stuck in the Surrey area, give me a message and I'll pick you up
Thanks very much, I appreciate it!
Specialists are the way to go!💯
i’d inspect the bolt holes for damage as well. The suspension being loose means the bolts may have banged around within the bolt holes and distorted them.
That McLaren Manchester revelation is just so perfect as the punchline for the video. How Sytner Group has any audacity of staying in business with that kind of service is beyond me.
I'd like to say its just them, but my experience with Sytner has been pretty poor across the board
You wouldn't be happy to buy a fiat from them let alone a car in the hundreds of thousands
Well done Chartwells. A company that cares. McLaren are a company that don't care. Great video!!!
It'd be more accurate to say McLaren Manchester don't appear to care. Agreed on well done to Chartwells.
@@eric-wb7gj I'd say that if McLaren Manchester has the same attitude to customers (still) since the last video Jayemm did about the service they provided when his two friends bought brand new cars then this is a problems for McLaren UK Woking.
@@TheKARMMARK Fair point. We don't know though if Woking stepped in last time, they got better, & due to various reasons, they've recently got worse as a whole, or if it's a recent one off.
I wonder how many issues JM raised initially 5 years ago, have been sorted across the company, that'd be a good video!
McLaren Manchester is not McLaren Ltd. They are separate corporate entities run by different people. McLaren should vet their dealers better though.
@@SpawnyWhippetTo me it tells a story about McLaren the car company if they allow dealers like McLaren Manchester to sell their wares. Reputable companies care not only about factory quality control but about the service their dealers offer. What's been done here by Manchester is ludicrous, you can't take McLaren seriously anymore. It's a Meme brand.
Not only not annoyed by the length of the video, it's one of the best things you've done. Quality operations like Chartwell's are growing thinner and thinner on the ground, and thus it's all the more important to point them out.
Yup, it was their involvement that made me actually want to make this a video - something positive to say at last!
Class act from Chartwell. Absolutely shocking (again) from McLaren Manchester. Completely demonstrates the entire problem with the franchise dealership model. On a separate note, I found your channel through that original video - can’t believe it’s been 5 years! Keep up the great work!
Long time ago - but seems some things may never change!
@@JayEmmOnCars Leopards........ ;>)
A good friend of mine invited me to go with him on a track day and share driving his McLaren 720s. He also done a little bit of modifying, exhaust performance type stuff. We drove the car about 150 Mi to the track, beat the piss out of the car all day long, and then he drove it home. He kept it for a few more months and then sold it. Maybe he was one of the lucky ones, but he never had a problem with it and the car was absolutely amazing on track.
James, I don't think there are many other content creators with the story telling ability to keep me engaged for 35 minutes with you stood still, no drag races, no sideways action, just a genuinely excellent raconteur. I'd maybe let Mr Metcalf into that group, bugger me, I sat absolutely enthralled about the 2024 harvest last week. Keep doing your thing man, it is good.
My thoughts exactly. I would have told this story in 3 minutes and it'd have been boring. And here we are at 35 minutes absolutely captivated. Amazing story telling.
I echo that. James is so well spoken and knows how to tell a good story!
Phew... And I thought that it was only me who secretly watches Harry's Farm and Garage! Yep Harry keeps me enthralled but fair play James that was well told.
Iain Tyrell is better than both these dudes put together
Didn't realise this was 35 minutes long until I read this. Wow. What phenomenal presentation!
Dude!!! never change!! you call it like it actually is and speak upon it as we all would!! Kudos..
This is the 1st time i have ever commented on a youtube video but felt i had to. My mclaren went for its annual service at mclaren manchester recently, i picked it up after the service, drove home to north wales and parked it up in my garage, few days later went to go out for a drive and noticed a big puddle of oil on the floor underneath the car, i think you know where i am going with this, luckily i have a 2 post ramp, raised the car and removed the undertray and found the sump plug loose. tightened it to correct torque and problem solved. Mclaren manchester have had all the evidence with photos etc and they now will not even return my calls hoping that i will just go away. This is not the only issue ive had with service at mclaren manchester, its so concering that i dread taking the car to Mclaren Manchester for any work to be done to my car.
To sumnarise, like me, you already know it was Mclaren manchester that didnt tighten those wishbone bolts.
Mclaren cars are fantastic and i am sure that not Mclaren Service Centres are bad, i would love to know where i can take my mclaren for its next service where i trust it would be in safe hands.
Great video by the way.
Hi there Mr Superwomble. I am not a McLaren owner but it may be worth considering the Leeds dealership. 2 Aire Valley Drive, Temple Green, Leeds, LS9 0AA. It probably not that much further. Have look around on the net and see if they have a good reputation. Good luck and I personally would NOT trust the Manchester branch to make a cup of coffee 😮👍
@@MrSuperwomble maybe they employ ex Boeing staff
@@purpleotter10Or maybe they pay their staff a pittance and don’t train them properly.
We can only speculate what went wrong but their reputation is likely to bury them as a business.
@@mikegregory8353 time to inspect how Sytner run their business and how they treat their staffs, it seems...
Wow, that is wild.... You sent them photos and they just ignored you? Not a "we are sorry, we'll discount your next service, etc...."
That's a bad dealership....
I had a lap booked in a 720S, at a rather famous very green racetrack. It had broken down. So I caught a lap in a 600LT instead. The 600LT had only just come back into service....after it's engine loom caught fire. End of anecdote.
To be fair, I heard a lot of similar stories about Ferrari back in the day. They rose above it and got it right, McLaren can too
I’m surprised McLaren of Manchester hasn’t gone out of business. Utter impotence
Their shit! Just like the cars!!!
Needs more likes
@@lesliemccaghy9611 They're... FFS! I doubt you've ever driven one of their cars.
Impotence? That conjures up all sorts of visions of what might be going on at Manchester.
They should have taken the car straight back and done all the work and for the safety inspection. As they are still in the spotlight for this debacle. Not just naaa not us
When you said it lurched in a violent fashion under breaking i knew straight away a bolt had come out of the car. I had to follow my friend with a similar issue he was limping it to the mechanic we ended up on a 90kph road and ive never seen a car swerve all 3 lanes in such dramatic fashion before... This was an old mk4 golf sport with over 100,000k on the clock the fact a low mileage McLaren can a similar thing is terrifying 😮😮😮
I had a very similar experience from an Aston Martin main dealer in the UK when both ends of my steering arm suddenly lost their bolts. It took about a month of them refusing to say it was them, but after I said if it wasn’t them, then every single car needs to recalled as this would mean it is manufacturing defect, they finally admitted it was them and fixed the car. Very very frustrating and scary. Thankfully, very similar to you, it happened in a car park, and not on the motorway I had been seconds earlier.
That warm feeling you get when you know your £10K Japanese warm hatch is far better engineered than a McLaren supercar.
Be fair, after all they have a couple hundred thousand tries to get it right.
It is hand made, of course you should expect issues of the sort that won't happen with mass produced simple vehicles.
Great ad for Chartwells, that’s how you run a business
Agreed. They appear to deserve the promotion, although I've no doubt any smart MD would have been able to have thought ahead and seen the benefits. I would take my car there.
@@24ct_G You can't possibly know that, so it's a moot point - the fact is they acted and sorted the problem. That's a massive positive. I've had similar positive experiences at various specialists and I'm a nobody!!!
@@24ct_G You may well be right but McLaren Manchester must have known as well. Yet they decided to do nothing but pi$$ off the customer. With the parts at cost it would have cost about £750 to keep a customer happy. Short sited!
@@rjdavies1982 until James sent the email stating who he was and what he was doing he was getting short shrift from them. I think it's very reasonable to draw the conclusion Angus has. while the MD deserves some credit for eventually taking responsibility, his claim that he had previously knew nothing about their attempts to have them repair the car may be true but it also may not be true. either way those who they dealt with initially were deserving of any credit.
@@24ct_G Manchester told everyone to F off, Chartwell at least cares enough about their reputation to protect their good name. Do you think they enjoyed spending their money to fix someone else's mistake?
Kudos to Guy for making us enjoy the content of his car. Good man!
Huge shout out to Chartwells - with that attitude their reputation and success will only grow. On the other hand,McClaren Manchester showed no interest in investigating possible wrongdoing in their service department that could have caused a catastrophic failure at 200mph on an autobahn. For me, the takeaway from this is stay away from McClaren Manchester - they don’t seem to care about the customer or the standard of their work and that’s a potentially fatal recipe when you’re dealing with cars that can approach the top speed of an F1 car.
I don’t normally listen to lengthy explanations as to what happened and why it happened, but I will say I had to keep on listening to the very end. You did a remarkable job of explaining this from start to finish so well done.
James, I appreciate the your clear, detailed reporting of the sequence of events and the technical details, and the care you take of describing your experience with each of the players in the story. No room for misunderstanding.
If you’re ever in Texas you’re invited to drive my 1930 Ford Model A in the beautiful San Antonio Hill Country.
Texas is absolutely on my to do list
@@JayEmmOnCarsFlorida and Texas are my favourite states. Friendly people, especially outside the biggest cities. I used to visit NYC, Boston and San Francisco very often on business but I don’t intend ever to visit those cities again.
@@JayEmmOnCars Texas is amazing. Would be great on a feature about the huge ass trucks and everything having a V8 as standard :) Hill country is beautiful.
I have 4. Three LTs (600, 675, 765) and one 720S and I have never had a mechanical fault with any of them. Your problem was caused by the carelessness of a dealer’s technician , not the fault or poor reliability of McLaren.
Jay needs to put on a hidden camera and pay a visit to the McLaren dealership in Manchester.
I have a McLaren, albeit a 12C. Apart from a soft close door look failing and aircon leak, only servicing in 32 month. Not too bad for a 12 year old car. I don’t use a Mc dealership. I go to a brilliant independent. McLaren’s don’t need to cost a fortune to run.
A stunning car. The most cohesive design from the brand IMO.
This is the very literal definition of ‘short story long’
@Torahboy1
> This is the very literal definition of ‘short story long’
And you're the poster child for CBeebies. You should know your limitations.
^
Watch a video by you 2 years ago and I subscribed because I think you're one of the most honest automotive journalist I've experienced. But even beyond that initial observation Ive come to realized that you are simply a very good human being. This particular episode is exemporatory of that very nature. I must say not only exceptional but one of the best videos I've had experienced in recent memory of the last 30 years of the social media. Never be more than you are! You You have impeccable character! The very best qualities for success. Very very good. I'm surprised you're not already beyond 1 million subscribers!
I had a very different recovery experience.
In 1980 I had an Allegro estate, I took it to France on holiday and on the way back It broke down in Calais, the water pump having thrown a bearing. When we arrived in Dover it was about 12:15, we went to the Austin garage next to the docks, only to discover that it had closed at noon and it was the Saturday of August Bank Holiday.
As I was in the RAC I called them, they carried me back to North Wales on the back of a lorry. If I had been in the AA I would have probably spent a couple of days in various laybys, but the RAC used a contractor and did the job with one lorry.
The driver told me as he was winching the car that he had just finished a 12 hour shift on the docks! He only stopped once in the probably 6 hour journey, for a coffee at Sandbach services. After dropping me off at my house he left to return to Dover, declining the offer of a break, saying he had to get back to do his next shift on the Docks!!
The repair was easy the RAC contractor had taken off the old pump and shown me how to replace it, so the day after the bank holiday I bought a pump from the local dealer for about £20 and fitted it myself. Sorted..
Ah the Allegro. My parents had a mustard coloured one. I didn't know they made an estate.
In the past 7 years or so I've had very different experiences with the RAC.
Ranging from a clutch slave cylinder failure 15 minutes from home, for which I was told I'd need to wait 4 hours for recovery and the driver actually arrived within 20 minutes - all the way through to an ETA of a few hours for a water ingestion issue some 10 minutes from home, a truck turned up unable to load my lowered Accord (which James has previously reviewed, the front no lower or more overhanging than most Modern BMW M cars) - the car finally got recovered at 11am the following morning, some 14 hours after the breakdown.
That said, I've also had straight simple recoveries home (with even lower cars), and even had one RAC Patrol recover my Del Sol, with engine failure, and ignore the request to relay recover it from the side of Junction 2 of the A14, via Leicester Forest East, to Derby. The last chap I mentioned there went on to leave the RAC and go self employed, and I've used him for the years since to move everything I own - if anybody's curious, the company is called Dally Drive, run by a chap called Mark and if you ever need anything recovering, I cannot recommend them enough.
Realistically breakdown companies have to hold themselves to a higher standard.
I've seen it said that the estate version of the Allegro was the reason we didn't get the estate/giardinetta version of the Alfasud here in the UK as they were thought to look too similar.
Whilst watching this video I thought of a similar thing that happened to us in the 70s. The RAC would take you all the way home, the AA would pass you pillar to post.
Bro, that was 45 years ago!
Not many people can keep you entertained by doing a piece to camera for 36 mins. Excellent work J 💪
It doesn't matter if you sell Fiat's or Ferrari's. What matters is that you care about what you're offering and the customers you're selling to. It's very clear that McLaren of Manchester didn't give a toss 5 years ago and certainly don't give a toss now.
Fiats or Ferraris.
Same as every Audi dealership these days, terrible service.
@@GazMoby On the brighter side, I've been very happy with Porsche. Not always been the case.
@@resnonverba137 yea I'm considering a Macan for the next purchase as tired of being treated like 💩 by Audi
@@GazMoby Probably a good move 🙂
Frankly, this was actually a case of extreme negligence potentially leading to fatalities. Similar mistakes have been the subject of episodes of Air Crash Investigation.
“The day came, everything went along brilliantly, incredible, swimmingly….until an hour in” Too funny Jay, love your work
Impressed by the weight loss bro!...keep it up!
One bolt doesn't weigh much
Was just about to comment too. Well done!
Glad you’re still here. Things could’ve been much worse. I know the drama with Manchester and the whole ordeal was frustrating. But let’s be real. You’re a lucky boy.
I now own your friends purple 720s, had it over a year, 16,000 trouble free miles. Please thank him for sorting the issues prior to my ownership lol
How are you finding it?
@@ahyaan2552it’s great!! At this price point there is nothing better
Nice
"James Martin Mat Armstrongs somebody else's McLaren" 😂😂😂
LMAO that part had me laughing too
Best video of any car youtuber Big Man 👍Keep going ma man ✌️
Bravo Charthills. Top notch customer care 👏
J, good stuff. Slightly tested my attention span but some good points made. Reputation is priceless, in the sense that you can't buy it. Always glad to hear kind words for good people. Safe driving!
Blimey, Chartwells really stepped up to the plate there, speaks volumes. When you buy a top end car, you are not paying just for the superior vehicle, you are paying for superior service too. It seems even then, you have to shop around.
Not holding British companies to account is why so many British companies are run by dodgy geezers (water companies as an example). So well done. Love your honesty. Thanks.
I’m exhausted listening to your travel and rescue saga. You are a tough cookie! 💪❤️
I've had a similarly negative experience with Lexus Dundee. I recently bought a 2012 Lexus LS600hL and immediately booked it in to Lexus Dundee for a major service. They sent a driver to collect the car from my house where he carried out a pre-collection inspection during which I pointed out all the known light scratch marks, improperly fitting front bumper, and some surface damage to the leather on the bolster of the driver's seat. When they returned the car I noticed what looked like a deposit of some sort of polish or wax on the upper edge of the trim surrounding the infotainment system. I wiped this off only to discover it wasn't a deposit of any kind but had been the curled up scrapings from the matt coating on the trim. This had exposed the bright shiny plastic beneath the coating which was very easily seen, especially from the driver's seat position. Lexus Dundee are not taking responsibility for the damage. Apparently a replacement part costs £17,500. I do not know if it will be possible to repair the damage, but it's far more important to me that they take responsibility and use the situation to review their procedures. They also returned the car with 2 missing engine cover clips and additional damage to the front bumper, both of which they have accepted responsibility for. Clearly there is a serious problem with the service department at Lexus Dundee. The last time I discussed this with them on the phone they hung up on me when I challenged their assertion that I had not shown the driver the interior of the car during the pre-collection inspection. I had shown him the only damage to the interior, that being the leather bolster, and surely this is the job of the person collecting the car. The situation is still unresolved. So far it's the worst customer service I've had from any garage, and there is some pretty strong competition!
17:54 before this sentence came up and it was somewhat leading to "caused by an improper service" I thought to myself, "Hey what are the odds its the same McLaren Manchester that Jay shat on for being terrible?"
Lo and behold, I am an oracle.
I Dub thee Nostradamus
regardless of who was at fault, if it went to the dealership to get a service its their responsibility to inspect the suspension. especially if they work on it, they should be checking all bolts in the area.
The AA are a joke it took 3 recovery vehicles to travel the odd 100 or so miles to take my sisters bmw x5 that suffered a puncture back to north east London. She had her 3 children with her, credit to the drivers who wanted to just take her from point a to b, but because the AA only permitted each recovery driver to cover a set region she had to wait for each transfer to the next truck and the whole process took several hours and well into the early hours of the next day. That’s why I’m an RAC member and they have never let me down on the odd occasion something unexpected happened.
Weirdly I've heard some horror stories about the RAC lately
@@JayEmmOnCarsused to take calls for the RAC in customer service back in 2017, the amount of “I’m broken down on the side of the road and I’ve been here 4 hours on the hard shoulder of a motorway” calls were actually quite alarming!
@@JayEmmOnCarsRAC member here, my last three experiences with them have been shocking. The techs who come out to calls are always lovely, but despite RAC marketing saying they have an average response time of 60 minutes, I've never got a patrol to me within three hours.
They're also always desperate to send a patrol, even when you tell them the vehicle is not repairable roadside. Cue a 3hr wait for a patrol, just for them to shrug and tell you it's needs recovering - something I already knew. Add the wait for a recovery and I can say that if you break down and need the RAC, expect it to cost you your entire day...
@JayEmmOnCars RAC are so much worse, I've been absolutely screwed by them twice never again. I'll stick with the AA and just accept that they're a bit shite
Once waited 14hrs for a tow and then spent 5hrs between 4 different flatbed cabs before being presented with a mint green fiat 500 for my 10hr drive home from Edinburgh (which looked amd drove like itd been written off 3 times)
Guy is appreciative, because you probably drove it with more care because it was someone else’s car. You probably saved his life.
Putting aside the McLaren thing, you are very good at story telling - love these long pieces & im glad the gods were smiling on you that day.
a 40 minute video summed up in a few words : he took the car to an independent shop and then a mclaren dealer, somebody forgot to put in two bolts in the suspension, mclaren dealer distanced themselves from it while the other shop put in new bolts and inspected the car again.
MVP right here, Jay makes some good videos but majority of them are full of pointless (and often incorrect) dribble.
@@thedirtyscotTV Then there's the inconsistencies - parked in a lay-by (after the roundabout out) then talks like he was parked up against the kerb on a unlit B road - with all the attendant drama.
Mulțumesc.
This was great story-telling. The build up to the punchline that it was Manchester McLaren was so perfect.
Thanks fella, can never be arsed listening to his videos, his delivery does my head in
What a great video. I had a saga with Audi and an a6 where the injectors failed. Fuel was sent for scientific tests as if I would use dodgy diesel in a fairly new car, then Audi Germany disagreed with their own testing and sent out a kit by post to test it again. Long long story
It's amazing how much work can be put into not doing the work
Thankfully they fully repaired the car. An extended Audi warranty that cost me £600 saved me £6000
I was staying at that Travelodge that night (I'm actually there right now) - just forwarded the video to the staff here lol. Been enjoying your videos all afternoon - was so surprised to see you were here. Keep up the good work!
Well done chartwells of Derby.
This is why they are expensive and also always busy.
And I bet the owner would insist on it going back to them if it needed any other body work in the future.
I wish companies would just understand and accept that customer service is one of the most valuable investments you can possibly make. I recently had to buy some dress clothes for a presentation, and I probably went to five different stores looking for a dress shirt and pants. The very last store I went to, J Crew, I was immediately greeted by two ladies who were working there. They asked me what I was looking for, found me exactly what I was looking for, found my sizes, gave me different options, and helped me make decisions. As a guy who doesn’t regularly shop for dress clothes, it was a bit daunting trying to put something together myself. The help from the employees made all the difference for me and I ended up spending around $250 at the store. But what’s more is I will go back there every time I need dress clothes, and I will recommend it to anybody I know, looking for clothes in the future
Jeez! Here in the USA that would end in a lawsuit! Inexcusable!
Manchester McLaren need a talking too from the manufacturer….
The video says it all.
“Look after the customer”
A happy customer, is a repeat customer.
And a great owner by the sounds of it.
A fantastic car.
And Jayemm, a great content creator.
I completely trust your judgment and honesty, so t here's no question in my mind that those are splendid cars. I nevertheless cannot imagine wanting to own one. The costs are insane and my my patience is vast but not limitless. I'm very happy that you're unscathed after what could have been so much worse.
If you buy of one the generally more reliable models and take it to a reputable place for servicing etc, I think the costs and headaches shouldnt be *that* much worse than other brands in the same class?
@@GoldenCroc💯
James, worthy of note is your personal stance and that of Guy. Not to mention the way you constructed your arguments. Very well done. Its nice when things turn good. So, you and Guy savour the moment when the planets alligned. Lets hope Hatfield and the repairer reep the rewards with carma. The story does actually mirror my own life at the mo'. But won't go into that. Bw Mike in the Black Forest.
Always wanted a McLaren. Never pulled the trigger because of so many stories like this.
@@EvoraGT430 they are fantastic cars. McLaren Leeds have been utterly brilliant to deal with, as have Thorney Motorsport near Silverstone. The whole brand doesn’t need to be tainted just because of one average, or sub average dealership.
@@EXS720 "they are fantastic cars" I think the depreciation on McLarens paints a more accurate picture than your statement, coming from an owner. Maybe if you had the misfortune to deal with a dishonest dealer you would feel differently.
@@TheChannel1978, just because a car might have bad residuals, doesn’t make it a bad car. They can be mutually exclusive attributes.
I really am appreciating today just how good your narration skills actually are. This one deserves a cuppa and some quality time on the sofa. 👍
Great video Mr Emm. Thank you sir
How I’m able to listen to your talk is amazing !!!
This is the first video that I see from you. Never heard of you before today. I must say, I really like your vids. You just explain everything a bit different from any other youtubers. Big like !
Hi doctor Nick
I thought it was Jordan Peterson at first
I understood the reference
Hi Everybody
I’m being slow. I don’t get it.
@@GT380manSimpsons reference. 😅
Jay, one positive way of looking at this is that you may have saved your friend's life. Had it happened when your friend was driving at high speed this could have been very serious indeed.
A VW dealer rotated the wheels on my Passat, and a couple of days later the bolts all worked loose and wheel came off. Luckily at only 20MPH. They hadn't tightened the wheel nuts. They fixed all the damage and lend me a car to use. However, they never apologised or admitted responsibility. They were so scared of being sued that they would rather lose a customer than admit fault and treat him correctly. Needless to say I have never been back to that dealership, or bought another VW.
As stated elsewhere, this is not a manufacturer problem, but a dealership problem. Always report any dealership issues to the manufacturer head office, in writing using registered mail, as well as by email. If this happened to the dealership mentioned here for every issue they almost certainly caused, perhaps something would be done about it.
@@tonykemp3098 people just don't understand the ' duty of candour ' you can say sorry without it being a liability issue
My local JCT600 VW dealer are that bad they couldn’t even fix my key which I did with some liquid soap and 2 mins of perseverance, it’s been in numerous times sometimes for days, without fixes. The last time I sent it in I took the senior tech out, full road test, all agreed it needs a high pressure fuel pump. Came back to the car, yeah we’re not changing it 😂
Skip to 12:10 to see what happened
What an infuriating conclusion to this unfortunate story. Regardless of that, thank you for narrating it for us. Cheers!
James I have to congratulate you. Your videos are more informative professional and entertaining than anything in the mainstream. I'm amazed they haven't brought Top Gear back with you at the helm. It would be a huge success. Thank you.
Wow major props to Chartwells, Mclaren Hatfield and you Jay for looking out for your friend.
Another lesson learnt, don't shop of McLaren Manchester.
happy to hear you made it out of this safely!
big ups to Chartwell and Hatfield. shows how it should be done😍
And to never, ever, ever go to McLaren Manchester! 😲
You laughing while saying you
" really had the whole McLaren experience" sums it all up nicely, interesting story, keep up the great work and cheers from Kingston, Ontario
Positive news that Hatfield MCL seem to be a good dealer , yet again Manchester MCL damage the ownership experience for what are awesome cars . Kudos to Chartwells stepping up as well , let’s support the decent companies and let the bad ones raise their game or disappear
James , excellent video / report , had me glued !
Great Sunday morning watch …. Guys grey 720s has me thinking that I need to think about one before i get sensible !!
Keep up the great videos !!
Hey James. At first I must admit, I though “c’mon, click bait isn’t your usual style”. As such, foolishly began to fast forward to find the punchline. Sad that I did, and that I doubted you - and rewound to watch like I should have done in the first place!
What an amazing, informative and heartfelt video. I shall never doubt you again!! 😂
James loves a bit of clickbait, that's definitely his style! The 3 videos before this are "Porsche's Arrogance", "Toyota's Most Pointless Car" and "The Greatest Driver's Car of the Millenium?" - that's 100% full-on clickbait.
It's never unfounded though and he does tell a good story, so no problem with phrasing a valid comment in the most dramatic way possible to get attention, at least on TH-cam (whereas news sites should stop doing that nonsense).
Is it clickbait if that's really the topic though? I feel like clickbait is misleading
Interesting titles do bait clicks, but titles and thumbnails need to be deceptive, sensationalized, or otherwise misleading to be classified as "clickbait."
@@JayEmmOnCars Google gives the below definition of clickbait, by which yes it's all clickbait. However, it would be better to have a clearly different definition for dishonest clickbait since that doesn't apply here.
Definition: "content whose main purpose is to attract attention and encourage visitors to click on a link to a particular web page."
The annoying ones are "you definitely didn't know these 5 things!!!" (except anyone vaguely interested in the topic probably did). Or "look at this incredible thing" with a clearly fake picture.
@@JayEmmOnCarsI thought it was “appropriate bait”, if I may coin this clumsy phrase.
I felt for you when you realized that you were going to have to interact with McLaren Manchester again, about a broken car that they’d worked on.
In any sane world, the brand should have removed the franchise from them. Not doing anything leaves customers & more importantly for McLaren, potential customers, with the unmistakable impression that you’d be buying one of these cars, literally at your own risk.
I chose a Porsche as my first (& possibly only) sports car. I bought a classic 911 from an independent specialist whose TH-cam channel I’d watched for a couple of years (frankly, before I’d even thought of buying a car i don’t need, but found gradually I wanted).
I know so little empirically about this field that this next is a guess.
You will get excellent customer service from firms whose dealer network has consistently excellent customer feedback.
A brand which tolerates customer service such as you have described (years ago, in relation to your father and son friends & again now) is a brand I’d never buy into. They don’t deserve my business.
Of the many brilliant things about Porsche (and I promise I am in no danger of becoming a Porsche bore, there’s no room in my heart for more than Suzuki motorcycles ❤), one is that the build quality of 996s is literally breathtaking. The other is the network of independent specialists is so large and well established that you’d struggle to be far from one.
Quite often I feel like moving away from Porsche, and then I stop myself with good reason.
Those who invest in a vehicle of this caliber expect nothing less than exceptional service. It is deeply disappointing to witness such a failure in meeting that standard. McLaren should dismiss the employee in question, as their actions reflect a profound misunderstanding of the values inherent in a luxury brand.
Brilliant video. Even if you’re not in the market for a McLaren (let’s face it most of us aren’t), this is a great way to know how people/customers are treated.
I remember that video. Was the first one I watched on this channel.
lol, me too!
I first found your videos about 5 years ago talking about a McLaren fiasco and here we are 5 years later with another McLaren Fiasco 😅
You tell a story Slick Rick would be proud of
I can echo your experiences with the AA, James. If you need roadside assistance they are not too bad but if you need vehicle recovery they are pretty terrible outside of the main motorway network. My M3 broke down in Dover and it took me 16 hours to get recovered back home at which point I was utterly exhausted. It was just luck I broke down next to a BP as I could park up and get some food and go to the bathroom. I would have been in a much worse position if I'd broken down on the motorway. Lo and behold, they wanted to almost treble my renewal quote at the end of the year as well.
you cant let McLaren Manchester off the hook
Sorry about what happened, but I do love your "story time" videos James. You tell them so well.
I had a poor experience when I bought a Mercedes C63 W205 (2015) from Mercedes Benz Brooklands. Essentially the oil cooler is mounted under the engine facing the road and there is no shield or mesh fitted from the factor. Driving 40 mph on a dual carriageway and a stone from the road punctured the oil cooler and all of the oil leaked out. I had no idea until the engine started sounding like metal churning metal. Apparently there is no oil pressure sensor fitted on this model so a puncture leak won’t be picked up. All I had was a basic message come up on the dash saying add 1 litre of oil when next refuelling.
Anyway the engine went pop and Mercedes Colindale (where it was recovered to) quoted me £43k for an engine replacement. Mercedes never took responsibility for the design flaw. I lost time, energy, weight and peace of mind worrying about how to solve the issue. Ultimately escalated to the Ombudsman and 18 months later was made whole. Poor form from Mercedes.
What was the final verdict, did they replace the engine?
@@ahyaan2552 "...lost time, energy, weight and peace of mind..." Seems like they finally made it right - 18 months later!
@@hed1117 well yh thats a ridiculously long time to not have a working car, sounds painful