2022 State of Combat Sticks!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ธ.ค. 2022
- Welcome to our 2022 State of HOTAS/HOSAS video!
If you want to send us hardware to review, please reach out in our email.
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Discord Channels:
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HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT:
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VKB Discord:
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Low level hell:
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DCS:
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Star Citizen:
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Rig specs:
Intel i9 12900K
ASUS PRIME Motherboard
32GB DDR 4 3600 RAM
2x 1TB M.2 NVME SSD
1TB SATA SSD
1TB HDD for storage
GeForce RTX 3080
NZXT i510 case (modified)
Samsung Odyssey HMD, Oculus Quest 2
VKB Gunfighter Mk.III with Kosmosima Right Premium and MCGU
VKB Gladiator NXT Left Premium (Omni)
Xbox Controller (for TEDAC)
Winwing Orion Throttle
Logitech PRO Pedals
Foxx Mounts x2
MonsterTech long mount - เกม
Its nice to see Virpil overcome their largest flaw being their lack of a clutch system. It was directly why I didn't buy their stick years ago when I got my VKB gunfighter. On top of that VKB has started making their Metal hotas system and winwing has come out of the gate swinging with ultra premium equipment for a fraction of what it cost historically at a good quality. There has never been a better time for sticks as competition is plenty and fierce. I think the next big jump is going to be who comes out with the next generation of FFB sticks that are actually cost effective now that the patent troll that owned the design had his patent expire. Not to mention the explosion that flight sims have seen in popularity over the last 2 years. Cannot wait to see the future in this industry.
We'll certainly see how things go in terms of what comes next in flight sticks. One thing is for sure: it's an exciting time to be involved in the flight sim industry.
Love my VKB setup. I have a pre-EVO NXT on the right, a set of their Rudder Mk-IV pedal's, and then this recent summer I added a NXT EVO with Omni adapter and a NXT-SEM module to the left side. Makes flying in Star Citizen so seamless(along with running GameGlass on my Fire10 HD tablet). Also started using it with MSFS recently.
Great annual review as always. And TECS throttle in 2023?! Woohoo! I am set on sticks right now, but am looking forward to future throttle and/or pedal reviews you might have in the coming year. Have a great holiday, my friend.
Should be VKB t rudders open boxing this month
For the throttle I can confirm I was on discord with austringer
Good, honest and very informative review. Thank you!
It was your videos that led me to purchase the VKB Gladiator NXT EVO SCG Premium about three months ago (with left and right OMNI and straight adapters for versatility) over the WinWing setup I was originally looking at. I also figured when I wanted to upgrade, I could just buy a Gunfighter base and adapter and use my same stick, but I really don't see why I'd want to upgrade now that I've been using them.
Maybe it's because I'm used to old crappy joysticks, but these things are completely amazing. It's made flight and space simming in VR an absolute joy.
The VKB sticks are great. I have a Gunfighter and will likely be picking up a winwing setup in a couple months for review. I'll keep whichever one works best for Me.
Honestly though I think people will be satisfied with either.
Yea I went OMNI for both mine to and totally love this configuration over the straight up and down sticks!
Thanks for this video. Before buying I ll do a precise price comparaison, garanty of sellers and brand after buying comparaison too.
Thanks a lot for the research and the video!
Warthog Throttle w/DeltaSim + VKB GF3 MCG-Ultimate + MFG Crosswinds here. Love this combo.
Just ordered my GF3+MCGu - our setups will be identical :D
Would love to see a review like this on flight sim button boxes. I always have a hard time finding good comparisons
yeah I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that people usually only buy one set. This is really something I'd like to do. In terms of bang for your buck, VKB offerings have a lot of great features for not a lot of money, and that is even better if you are already using Gladiator sticks. Virpil and Winging make great boxes that are very high quality. They are a bit more on the pricey side of course.
I still have my old T.16000m HOTAS for combat simming, and use the buttons on a Honeycomb bravo as my button box
May I put in a plug for the Stream Deck? It's relatively cheap and great since you can bind any key to any button and change profiles whenever you want. Been loving mine
@@sillyrunner1 I may seek to get a test unit for a review
Opting for Space Sim Boxes as well
Excellent overview, thank you.
Took 2 minutes to get going . But - worth it. Thanks for the video upload.
in 2020 the beggining of covid and online schooling, I discovered DCS by utter coincidence. Since then I've had a full passion for flight and aviation and wanted to keep this passion by buying some respectful gear to really feel the joy of fliying. Unfortunately I discovered that due to unmanegable currency exchange rates, everything in this field is expensive. I bought the T16000 throttle and stick that was on sale, and that purchase was extremely painful to me. I hope someday maybe I can afford the proper equipment to truly build my dream simpit and have a nice hobby
I simply made do with the T16000 along with the bundle kit with throttle and pedals. That does mean there's no tactile cue that the flight is about to have a problem like a stall, especially with Helis.
I bought a VKB Gladiator setup and couldnt be happier!
This won't be short. I have had a combo of the Gladiator NXT Premium paired with TWCS throttle for almost two years now. I could not recommend these enough as a good starting point once you know you're into these games and sims. There are a few caveats though. If you aren't technical, you might have some issues. The only issue I've had with the VKB is the MARS/HALL magnet somehow got loose and so after a few sessions, my X axis would not be centered. VKB, to their credit, actually has posted information on this issue. They will also take it in to fix it if you can't do it yourself. I got it all apart myself. I had to disassemble the gimbal assembly, which was the trickiest part. Sure enough, the magnet kind of just popped out. I used a tiny dab of gorilla/super glue inside the housing and stuck it back in. That was around six months into my now almost two years of ownership. I actually have forgotten how to use the calibration software because it has been dead on ever since. I run like a 1 or 2% deadzone in DCS and even that is probably unnecessary.
Onto the TWCS... Honestly, beyond this unit for an entry to mid level throttle, I cannot recommend anything from Thrustmaster at this point. Everything I've seen myself or vicariously through my friends says they are not what they used to be in terms of QC. A buddy of mine bought the same throttle and stick at the same time as me. His TWCS has been fine, but mine was borderline unusable shortly after I got it. I have had it apart so many times. I tried different lubricants. I tried Nyogel 767A on the rails like people suggest. That made it feel like I was stirring molasses. And I couldn't operate it without it sliding around. I cleaned it and tried silicone lubricant. That was better, but it still was a big "snaggy" in its movement and I had to reapply it frequently. I finally came across the slider mod on Etsy. This replaces the crappy friction glide plastic on metal system with a set of cylindrical bearings and it is absolutely amazing now. Sadly, as of now, they do not appear to make this anymore. So if you can find it, it's a great game changer, and you'll have a really good HOTAS setup for around 300 USD. More recently, the potentiometer for the throttle axis started acting up. It would jump around as much as 10% in certain ranges. Really great in a dogfight. Taking it apart yet again and spraying the pot down with QRC electronics cleaner spray did the trick. Sadly, the last thing here is pretty common on anything that uses a potentiometer, unless maybe if you keep it stored in a vacuum sealed case.
At the end of the day, these get used and abused and I'm constantly hauling them around, even in a bag on top of my luggage in a plane. I'm sure that hasn't helped my issues to some degree, but do know that at least with the TWCS, you stand a good chance of having to mess with it.
On the VKB Gladiator issue, I have heard of that. I really have to give it to VKB on their customer service through their discord server. They are very responsive and have very knowledgeable people that help there both employed and otherwise. I'm one of those people(not employed, but there to help), but I'm by far not the most knowledgeable of those that do.
On the TWCS thing: 767A isn't a lubricating grease, it's a damping grease. It will make it smoother, but the more you use, the more damping forces it has. It sounds like you used too much, and it doesn't take much to be too much!
Thrustmaster has been on the decline for years. My theory is their rise to main stream status is their downfall. They had immense success and very little competition. This put them into a position where they had no need to innovate. Innovation isn't something that is easy or fast to turn on in big companies once the fire is out. I just hope that TM can turn it on soon so that they won't be destroyed by their lack of action. (At least their combat sim group)
On a related note, a company even more likely to say goodbye to combat Sim hardware in the next few years is Logitech. They too have had zero innovation in many years, but since combat sim hardware is even further from the core of the company it is even more likely to be dropped. (But to mention their products just aren't very good at all)
This is one of the many reasons I recommend people avoid buying into these ecosystems. Buy from companies that are actively building not those that are rotting away.
Thankyou for these reviews, just rebuilt my computer and am looking at what hardware to buy.
That's why I do them! It makes me so happy to see people getting the hardware that will make their experience the best!
I was considering a begginer-level build for DCS for next year, I still hadn't decided on which module I would use it, but I really like the F-18 after some months of seeing reviews. Really cool and informative video, many thanks ✌
The F-18 is a great starter module in DCS. It's a pretty straight forward full fidelity module (Clickable cockpit) that'll allow you to get your bearings. The aircraft itself is pretty easy to learn although it will still take some studying and practice!
I recently got myself those VKBs and DCS with the F18. Its a lot of fun to learn and fly the aircraft, and its great for other stuff like IL2, Star Citizen or whatever else. Make sure to get a cheap Track-IR solution; that helps a lot. Ive used Delanclip.
That said, you should IMO also consider the DCS' F16, which is also rather complete these days. Its a lighter aircraft, with somewhat less complex advionics, and cant do carrier operations or carry anti ship missiles, or cruise missiles (ER-SLAMS are really fun). But in terms of pure flying it is better, with a much better thrust to weight ratio and more maneuvrability. F18 is maneuvrable and uncannily stable in almost every phase of flight, but its supersonic and climb-capability are a bit limited because of the weak engines.
Just something to keep in mind; I cant tell whats the better choice. Probably just get myself the F16 in a coming sale. And mind you can test each aircraft for 2 weeks for free, and that also resets after 6 months so you can retest. Its quite nifty.
@@termitreter6545 yeah that's the thing, one of the things I considered with the F-18 was the possibility of doing carrier operations with it. I really like naval aviation and would love to give it a try if I end up getting that module. But the F-16 is also very attractive, both are great options
@@jfv2312 If you like carriers and naval operatoins, then 100% get the F-18.^^
I just have Logi Extreme 3D Pros, bc that's what I can afford, but they're already a lot more fun for space flight than m+kb. Thanks for the vid!
I run a VKB EVO and it is the best mid range stick in my opinion. I use a Thrust Master TWCS with modded etsy bearings and I have MFG rudder peddles.
The mid-tier I feel, is mostly outdated still, with the VKB gladiator being the only new thing in years, and it's on the high end of the mid-tier. Both Logitech and Thrustmaster really haven't done much. I'm planning on getting a VKB gladiator probably in the next couple of months to replace my Thrustmaster T 16000 stick and use the TWCS throttle for the time being. Just wished there were newer options in the mid-tier.
The Gladiator NXT EVO came out a year ago, the NXT two years ago. It's pretty darn fresh if you ask me. You are 100% right about Logitech and Thrustmaster. They have become completely stagnant, and that's why I just can't recommend them anymore at all. 1. don't buy into a dead ecosystem (sorry if your top end combat stick hasn't been revamped in mor than a decade it's a dead ecosystem) and 2. don't buy into ecosystems that clearly don't care about the segment you do (Combat sims, we blow things up here!). Do what you are planning, try the Gladiator, you won't regret it. It will pair up great with your TWCS for now. Having flown on a T16k and a Gladiator the difference is rather large. The quality difference is big.
@@FalconsLedge honestly I feel all Logitech and thrustmaster sticks are now a tier lower due to old designs despite their high costs
@@Icarus_789 yeah I could see that, though, that isn't how I categorized things, instead by price. It seemed like a more objective way to create segments.
@@FalconsLedge I understand that. I just wish we had more competitive options against the vkb mid range stuff in quality and that isn't any fault to you. Logitech and thrustmaster haven't done anything in over a decade to warrant the costs and yet big name reviews(not you) like ign, pcgamer, etc only mention their lines for the past decade. Vkb, wingwin, virpil, etc have no coverage outside of hardcore circles in fight/space sims. Due to this I never see Logitech or thrustmaster putting any effort in to compete and innovate their lines as they dominate the mainstream market.
@@Icarus_789 very much true. It is nice to see turtle beach joining the fray, unfortunately the Xbox native aspect and wasted hardware (screen) is unfortunate. I think it's not geared towards console flight than PC.
I'm wondering if an Authentickit kit will make an appearance next year. (3d printed kits, their most famous is the Spitifire, though they have throttles for P51, Mosquito, and others are in the works)
So it really depends on how popular they are. I think it would negatively impact these sorts of videos to have a bunch of niche, super low volume sticks included. It muddies the water. I have no problem doing full reviews on these types of things. I'd be happy to review any stick they'd want to send me for example. But the vast majority of people are going to be buying from Logitech, TM, Virpil, VKB, and Winwing. I added turtle beach in this year because they will likely sell a lot of sticks, many more than say Authentikit, Realsim, brunner, and what-not. It doesn't mean these companies don't produce good gear, just that most combat sticks (probably 98% or so) are going to fall to these other companies.
Now, if one of these other sticks really stands out and is a huge value, then I'd certainly be more inclined to push people towards them.
Now specifically about Authentikit. Its really cool what they're doing allowing people to download their files. I do wish we'd see this kind of thing from other companies, but What we get from them is users creating files for them, which works too.
Thanks for this rundown! I need to replace an aging X52 setup; but as someone who has to pay for real-world airplane parts and only does a modest amount of simming (mostly Elite:Dangerous, and occasionally MSFS or Condor2 during the winter months), I didn't want to pay for the dated Thrustmaster Warthog or other premium/niche options out there. I was unaware of mid-range options like VKB which seem like exactly the sort of thing I want: a reliable setup with good feel, good centering, lots of functions & hats, but without breaking the bank or requiring a custom cockpit or desk mount. Really appreciate it!
One small suggestion, if I may: You verbalize model names/numbers and configurations very briefly. For those of us not familiar with the abbreviations or product lineups it can be tough to track, or be sure that we're looking at the same item/config that you mentioned. It would be a big help if you could flash some text on the screen so that we can visually see the model name/config you're recommending!
Great suggestions, in previous years I have done this. This year there was a lot of rumors of a certain throttle, so I admittedly put off this video hoping it would come out. Now that I know it's going to be into 2023, I did it a bit faster than usual. Next time I will definitely do that.
@@FalconsLedge - Thanks! While I've got your attention, one more quick Q: Any idea if its possible to set up a VKB gimbal-as-throttle to not return-to-center? I like the idea of a stick-like grip with hats and buttons for my "throttle", but having to hold it in fore-aft position for my desired throttle setting seems like a PITA... Much appreciated!
@@noelwade yes, both the gladiator and gunfighter can be set up as throttles by removing the y axis spring and using the clutch for friction
@@FalconsLedge - Awesome, much appreciated! I'm intrigued by the Omni-throttle layout; will have to take a close look at that stick vs the others. Time to go do some research - thanks again for starting me down this path!
@@noelwade absolutely! That's why I do this channel!
As someone who is wanting to get into this market, I can’t thank you enough for such a good video.
After some additional research I think I’ll be pulling the trigger soon on The VKB Gladiator NXT Evo space combat edition. The prices were solid and I’m wanting to do a little bit of everything flying wise.
Thank you! I am a big bang for your buck guy too!
just ordered mine today and pretty excited
currently using a TM cougar TQS (with rel4y hall sensors and USB mod - look him up on the ED forums, he's currently in the process of designing and building a full F16 style force sensing stick from scratch) and TM Cougar stick on a warthog anniversary magnetic sensor base.
That's great and all, but things like that aren't going to make the video, as I mentioned, things like that are way too niche and low volume.
Thanks a lot for overview.
Why haven't you mention about rudder pedals? Or it is topic for a separate video?
My experience with rudder pedals is more limited than sticks and throttles. I've been gaining more knowledge on them quickly though. Right now I have VKB T-Rudders. I think they are probably the best bang for the buck right now if you just want a set of good pedals. The new turtle beach pedals might be a good option if you absolutely have to have toe brakes. IMO the very best pedals have got to be MFG Crosswinds or Thrustmaster TPR(with damper mod).
At first when I just simply read the title I thought you were talking about Combat Sticks as in ones for Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter. 😅
I just revived my new Virpil Alpha prime and throttle and it is by far the best HOTAS you can get hands down. It has so much functionality its insane. I play DCS I fly the f-18 f-14 f-16 and A-10. With the setup i have from virpil I am able configure modes for A/A, A/G Navigation, startup. I have it set up so that I use the throttle to start the f-18 without using the mouse. It is by far the best you can get.
That's great!
Virpil makes great hardware.
It should be stated that the features mentioned are not unique to Virpil, all of the top end manufacturers offer similar features, button boxes, etc.
Same, and they are incredible for DCS but also for other flight sims and even Star Citizen/Elite Dangerous. Super happy with them!
I can't work out what's the best option for long extention set ups. I want to make a full sim pit for a harrier and honestly the stick choice has been a nightmare
excellent vid with plenty of info and presented mostly bias free
for VR users, which HOTAS has the most buttons at fingers reach (without lifting hand)? great video!
Any of the top end solutions will be great. The highest I believe would be the VKB MCG or the winwing f-16 with the extension
@@FalconsLedge the virpil grip is almost identical to the VKB one
I bought a Winwing Orion 2 and it is an excellent Hotas. Its only drawback is that it is too focused on DCS. It is great for space sims, but some of the buttons work in odd ways, and you'll need to get used to that. It is almost all metal, but it has a nice feel to it. The stick is very precise and I can do things with it that I was unable to do with any previous stick.
I tried to buy from VKB, but if you are not on one of their main supported regions you'll have to buy through Ali Express. The shipping on AE is brutal. It came up to 1/3 of the order ($225 from a $679 order), which is unacceptable. Shipping costs were inconsistent too. On a $99.00 panel shipping came up to $81.00. That made the combo I was trying to buy more expensive than the Orion.
did you buy your Orion with the MFSSB kit or withour?
@@warhead_beast7661 Without. I bought the combo that has the regular base. I play across a range of games and I prefer to have deflection in a joystick.
I own both winwing and VKB products. I love my VKB products and I also love my WW stuff. In my opinion they are on par with each other and you made the right choice going for price as there really is not much of a quality difference. Though I will admit that WinWing does not have good desk mounting solutions for any of their products. Currently trying to draw out a proper desk mount to accomodate their stuff so that it actually usable on my desk. In particular the MIP has a horrifically bad mounting design.
@@zackeryhardy9504 try monstertech mounts
@@jg3nius135
Edit: Reread my original comment and misinterpreted your comment. Seriously the MIP mounting has frustrated me to no end. I will leave the comment as it contains details as to the issues that exist with WW mounting, but know that none of that is directed at your comment as I misinterpreted your intention to help as something else.
My Point isn't that it doesn't work with 3rd party mounting solutions. Its that their mounting solutions are just bad and you really are better off buying someone elses such as monstertech. Though Choosing to make your stuff exclusively compatable with monstertech has its problems. For example:
Shipping just makes it not worth buying monstertech. Especially when I already invested in fox mounts because shipping it to the US literally makes them not worth buying. It is far more economically efficient for me to just draw something up in solidworks and send it over to FOXX mounting solutions and have them build something for me. Or if I had the time spend some time over the weekends and build it myself.
Do note that the MIP is designed for high end sticks which are all going to be center mounted. Monstertech is not the end all be all. They are nice, but VKB, Virpil, and FOxx are all equilly viable options and are far lower in price. All of them and monstertech are center mounted. The fact of the matter is this system could have been designed so that the mounting clamps are on on the sides and not the center. This is just poor design choices. I mean if you design it to work with monstertech then great, but don't only have your product work with something that the minority of people own.
Their mounting for literally all the products they sell are not well engineered at all. Even their desktop solution is to place suction cups or sticky pads to hold it to the table. Not a good design. I mean I have wound up replacing the original mounting with something of my own design or something designed by someone else. Literally every single product has barely usable mounting solutions and from a standpoint of a buyer, Having to spend another few hundred dollars on a mounting solution is kind of important and puts the cost in perspective. The reality is that mounting is an afterthought for them.
I run the VKB NXT EVO "Space Combat Edition" in HOSAS. Love them. I bought them for Star Citizen which they are perfect for and also use them with Warthunder. For a little over $300 you can not go wrong.
Couldn't agree more, I'm all about bang for your buck.
just placed an order for the VKB Gladiator NXT EVO premium and the STECS Mini plus. Thanks 🙂
I'm sure you will be happy with them!
I got vkb nxt and omni throttle for star citizen. I then began playing dcs. I would love a button map for dcs using dual vkb sticks.
Me too!
I'm gonna get the vkb evo next premium tbh. Seems the best all round
It's a great bang for your buck
I got a set of VKB Gladiator NXT EVO’s with the SCG premium and left hand OTA for Christmas. My kids and I have been enjoying them greatly. So, so much better than the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro they replaced. They really do beat out everything outside of the Winwing, VKB Gunfighter and the Virpil. They’ve paired nicely with my Thrustmaster TPR pedals, which is about the only Thrustmaster hardware worth keeping at this point. I’ve mostly done civilian flight sim until now. I just bought my first modules for DCS, and am facing that massive learning curve. I’m hoping to get into Star Citizen soon as well. We’ll see. Thanks for your content and the reviews you do.
Absolutely true about the TPR, they are really good especially with a damper mod. TM can make great hardware it just baffles me why they have just stopped innovating in the combat sim arena.
Agreed! Logitech and TM have been way too complacent in the combat sim arena for too long. It baffles me that TM has done so little since the Warthog release so long ago. Logitech has seemingly done nothing since it acquired Saitek way back when. It doesn’t help that outside of TH-cam and some Reddit communities, the majority of peripheral reviewers on websites always recommend TM and Logitech. They don’t even seem to know that companies like VKB, Virpil and Winwing exist. It allows TM and Logitech to sit back and do almost nothing while people still recommend their products.
@@nathanhatch1125 many of them are sponsored by Logitech and Thrustmaster.
How about Brunner Base with Force Feedback ?
I got the Saitek X55 HOTAS when it came out (the predecessor to the Logitec X56). It was plenty good enough for my needs. But there is one thing: The rubberized surface. That is the kind of rubber that decays over time. It took a few years, but both the throttle and stick are now ... sticky. To the point where I don't want to use them anymore. I assume the X56 has the same rubberized surface. And perhaps other sticks have it too. Just be aware that the rubberized surfaces don't last. You'll get a few good years out of it before the rubber decays.
X52 and x56 have this too.
Ive had a pretty good range of HOTAS set ups from cheap Saitek, to T16K, to Warthog and just got a VKB Gunfighter Ultimate. I think the T16k was a great middle level Hotas, especially paired with their pedals but the stiction issue across thrustmasters whole line is pretty bad. It only took about 500 hours of use in DCS before it got bad enough on the warthog for me to need to upgrade. The stiction on the throttle and pedals on the t16k were also what made me move to the warthog (and mfg crosswind pedals). The warthog throttle is good though, especially with the deltasim slew mod. I havent seen any new ones shipping with an upgraded stick yet though.
In the mid range the T16k has nothing on the Gladiator. More buttons, much higher quality, more customization. The gladiator is more expensive, but not a ton more. IMO the only reason to go with a T16k today is if you absolutely cannot afford the Gladiator.
On the stiction thing, yes absolutely and its totally a design flaw, especially in the warthog, and adding things like extensions just makes the whole situation worse, though it doesn't become noticeable as quickly because you have so much more leverage against the gimbal.
Congrats on the "GFU", how good is it..! Just did the same upgrade myself.
I've seen evidence of the "DeltaSim from factory" new version, pretty special it took as long as it took, however I'd be kind of surprised if it is as good as DS' product. It has truly transformed the throttle for me, and has helped me stay on HOTAS in SC. And in DCS it's simply perfect for targeting.
@@JSmith73 the Gunfighter with the mcg-u is great
@JorgenSmith I have no complaints about the VKB Gunfighter. My biggest problem now is trying to find more stuff to bind to all my new buttons. But really, it's not even in the same league as the warthog. I got a 200mm extension as well and the fine movement I can do now is phenomenal. I also love how easy it is to change springs in the base. No regrets.
@@DaveyCooter nice! I've been suffering from a bicep tear injury myself all year, and found the old Warthog which was getting sticky as well being very hard on the arm. Not just the movements, but also eg the trigger buttons were super hard over time.
Zero such issues at all with the VKB, and things like virtual sliding axes on the ministick are phenomenal for the F16 radar antenna elevation, and TrackIR zoom. It just keeps getting better the more I get used to it.
You didnt really show the VKB Gunfighter base fully, though with a lot to get through an excellent run down. Thanks
Gunfighter is wonderful especially with the gunfighter 4 just being released
I have VKB Gladiator, the only problem it has the base that moves - it's too light for it. They probably expect the user to nail it the table or tie it to the leg using the 4 holes provided. The most important thing in the joysticks is the twist. Many of them don't have it - Warthog does not have it. Virpil joysticks are expensive and only one model has twist, and it's very complicated to find it, reading the small text on bad designed website - so, if you get the wrong one, that's on you. Logitech G Extreme 3D Pro Joystick is very good and smooth with many buttons, but they don't last, without magnetic sensors. Thrustmaster 16000 has problem with twist failing very fast, but it might work with Ace Combat 7. It's probably best to use a gamepad controller with Ace Combat 7, because joysticks generally don't work with it. Turtle joystick looks good, it has a twist, base is big, and price is not very expensive; it's still new and reliability is unknown. So, any joystick might get you disappointed.
Desktop use of sticks is generally got great. Twist is nice but honestly pedals are better. Get a mount for your sticks and you will be far happier. The gladiator absolutely dominates the T16K, anything logitch, and the turtle beach won't best it, I can guarantee that.
running a gladiator for a stick. My T16000's z went, I fixed it a few times, but its gone now. My TCS16000 throttle no longer centers in the z axis. Getting the gladiator throttle.....
"we blow things up here" Hell ya dude! biggest reason i cant get into MS flight sim. That's why i stay my happy ass on dcs.
like @openg739 said, this is going to be on Merch, just gotta design it.
I find the flight systems and "feel of flying" just being better in DCS as well. I do prefer the DCS graphics, and appreciate that it offers decent triple screen support - as well as external displays for MFDs and such.
@@JSmith73 for sure!
Finally TECS is on the way! as STECS now for some reason.
One that I wish there was more news about is the Honeycomb Sigma Tau. They made an announcement last year but things have been quiet about it since then.
Ive been following it a bit and what I can tell you it's that it's likely going to be right in the same category as the velocity one. I doubt it will challenge offerings from VKB in the mid range. It may best the Logitech and Thrustmaster offerings though.
One thing I do know is that I hope they get it done, because more competition is good for us!
@@FalconsLedge Thanks! I was kind of looking at it because it looks like it has a few more binds than the Turtle Beach offering (especially with the throttle), but the height is a lot lower which is good for desktop use. Plus Honeycomb has a decent quality reputation.
Believe it or not I was thinking of switching to something like the smaller Honeycomb from my Warthog, just due to my specific weird use case.
@@f38stingray VKB Gladiator NXT EVO. It is by far the best stick in the range you are looking.
@@FalconsLedge Yeah, that's definitely also on my list. Plastic gimbal is a con for some, but my Warthog's on a plastic gimbal too so I'd say that works just fine!
@@f38stingray the Warthog gimbal is terrible
"we blow things up here"
That's the t shirt, dude.
The birth of falcons ledge merch lol
@@FalconsLedge put me down for 1 large, bro.
Falcon what can you recommend as a stick only to play helicopters on squad the milsim (a stick that soes not require pedals to use the back rotor) please
Last time I played squad they didn't support sticks. it really depends on what you are willing to spend. In my opinion the VKB Gladiator NXT EVO is the best bang for your buck in the stick market right now.
@FalconsLedge thank you so much and happy holidays
@@D4NY0NL1N3 you too!
I got a VKB NXT EVO and THQ,should i buy a twcs/WWII Throttle and a vkb rudder then wait for the TECS or buy orion2 throttle(i had heard it got many issue)?really want a TECS
I've been using an Orion 2 for over a month, great throttle. TECS will be out this year, we just don't know when this year.
I have the nxt and the twcs. Its great, just need to either put dampening grease or the 3d printed slider in the twcs. Been watching the tecs for forever though
Damping is good
Damping grease makes a huge difference, but it does wear a little unevenly and starts to do so after only a couple of weeks. I never tried the Etsy mod though since I ended up getting a Virpil throttle, so I can't really offer any opinion on that.
Does the Thrustmaster Warthog auto config in DCS A10? Or do you have to manually set it up
There are presets if you set them, but I recommend doing your binds yourself
Love these videos, way more comprehensive than anyone else's roundups and although not the most detailed for each stick, you do mention all the things that matter, unlike many other "reviewers" who clearly have no idea what they are talking about.
_"X56 best military-grade HOTAS"_ 🤦
I have the X56 and I liked it and only used it for a few hours because I came into some cash and pulled the trigger and got a set of the VKB Gladiator sticks and never looked back. Just sucks I have the X56 setup that is now just setting on the shelf almost brand new and a constant reminder of what I pay for being impatient...
This is a really common thing, actually. People see that price tag and often anecdotal experiences from people who have no context claiming the x56 to be great, and they buy them. Later to find out that they just aren't very good.
That said, the secondary market is pretty strong for flight hardware, or you could always donate it to the channel for review if you like ;)
I love my VKB Gunfighter, and I really hope they do, in fact, release the TECS.
VKB has stated that it is coming out this year. For the record, they have not stated that it will come out at any other time. They hinted at a goal at one time, but Covid and redesigns affected that.
@@FalconsLedge I'm not dogging them, good products time when we don't have a global pandemic to worry about. They make solid gear, and I'm very excited.
@@FalconsLedge - TECs is dead in the water
@@velocitymg lol no, it will be out this year, this is directly from VKB.
Nice overview. Sad that none of it has force feedback like ANY of the sim racing hardware. Sure would be nice to have some feedback in my stuck and pedals!!
As I understand it, there was a patent that was stopping manufacturers from doing ffb in flight sticks. That is expired now, so maybe you'll see it again.
I’ve been looking to get into using sticks and throttle lately. I think I want to go with the double stick. The thrust master 16000 has a double pack that is in a decent price range but I’m one of those people that wants the best bang for the buck and I am willing to spend a bit more to get a better device if it’s worth it. The vkb gladiator looks nice but of course the one stick is the price of the thrustmaster double set. Do you have experience with thrustmaster enough to say if it’s worth it spending double the money to get the vkb sticks?
The gladiator aren't just worth it, they are WORLDS better than the T16K and far more reliable. Absolutely worth it
@@FalconsLedge thanks for replying so quickly. Sorry to bother but if I am buying as I can afford them would you recommend getting a left hand or right hand first. I thought to start with left stick and mouse might be better, using the mouse for camera controls. Then I thought I might be building bad muscle memory by using my left hand to fly when my right is my dominant hand and the one I would use for flight in a two stick set up. Choices, choices, choices lol
@@jonservo I never had interest in left stick mouse personally. But if it's something you are interested in go for it! I know some people like it, Im just not one of those.
I'm a little annoyed with my gunfighter mk3 and mcg ultimate.. I've now twice had individual wires slip out of the plastic connectors both in the gimbal and inside the stick itself, causing it to randomly disconnect as i move it. Also a bearing is digging into one cam in the gimbal to the point where i can feel pitting, and the copper core of the cam is exposed and little bits of copper get everywhere. These bits are even starting to actually tarnish inside the gimbal.
Definitely get in touch with VKB on their discord. That should not be happening
re: the turtlebeach velocity one not being PC-native
yes it is. has been since day 1. the screen in your video even shows it right after you say it. I've been using it on PC and Steam Deck as I don't own an xbox after the 360
You misunderstood my comment. Just because it works on PC and has from day 1 doesn't mean it is and was designed for PC. In fact it is clearly designed for consoles but it's compatible with PC.
Im thinking about the Orion 2 but i dont know if i'll need MFSSB which is default sold out
Just get the regular Orion 2, then pick up the fssb modules later.
@@FalconsLedge WinWing is now saying they won't sell the kit separately for end user installation because it's too fussy to install and calibrate. Pity!
@@odourboy interesting, I think I may contact them and see if I can still pick one up
I bought the Warthog in May of this year or thereabouts and it still had that Thinkpad nib. Might be that the stock this particular store had, hasn't seen a refresh in a while.
Yeah the ones with the new stick were recently built. Many in stores may have sat for months or even years.
@@FalconsLedge Not surprised at all considering the competition. My only hope is that the throttle dies before the end of warranty, as there have been few cases of it happening. That way I could switch easily.
@@Smillii there are a couple of rays that could happen, there is one issue that causes the throttle electrics to be bricked for example. But hardware failures are now common in the stick. Unfortunately, thrustmaster considers the two main failures to be "wear and tear" so they wouldn't be covered anyway. They are both design flaws, not wear and tear!
@@FalconsLedge Electric issue is what I meant. My general thought process was that if it lasts 2 years, I'll be happy(not so sure about that anymore.) I also thought I'll upgrade the gimbal to something like Warbrd eventually.
@@Smillii a good upgrade recommendation would be to just get the Delta Sim mod for your throttle, and just buy a Virpil, winwing or VKB base for your stick to plug into
The market continues to look bleak for left handers wanting hotas. Are there any options for left handers? A few lower and mid level sticks are modular and can be configured to be right or left. I wish someone would make a modular throttle.
There are options yes. Use dual stick with an angled grip.
The GNX EVO, the Gunfighter and the Virpil CM3 (should in theory) are able to remove the Y spring, tighten the damping clutch on the Y axis and operate as a throttle. Check out my gladiator NXT EVO review to see it used as a throttle.
I can confirm that my new warthog throttle doesnt have that stupid nub thing... I sold the stick though and got a NXT EVO premium
*I want to add another buyer's tip:*
Virpil grips are said to be better for bigger hands compared to VKB grips (but I guess that's not the case).
Tell that to the MCG. I think you are talking about the scg vs alpha. The alpha is larger.
That said I have large hands but the scg is still comfortable. On the other hand small hands on the alpha could make reaching some buttons harder. The VKB MCG is a very large stick, larger than the alpha, so saying Virpil Is better for large hands isn't really accurate. But make great sticks though.
@@FalconsLedge
Ah, comparisons on VKB and Virpil by experienced people seem few and far between but that was one main difference I read about.
Good to know VKB work for big hands too.
@@j.d.4697 I want to do some long term hands on between them but it's quite expensive so I haven't been able to. It's looking like the next big comparison will be with winwing gear
At least the VKB Gladiator NXT (space combat grip) seems to be made for somewhat larger hands, the analog stick is just a bit hard to reach for my hands. Idk about the other models tho^^
@@termitreter6545 the scg is made for med to small hands. If you have challenges getting to the shallot stick I recommend using the thicker hand rest included with the premium edition.
How do I remove the center bump on my t.16000m?
It is caused by the internal plastic ring the spring sits in.
I haven't been inside those. I have messed with them but not disassembled
@@FalconsLedge but you did notice what I was talking about in regards to how the joystick has a bump when recentering right?
@@AbleistSL most sticks have something like this, it's usually the point on which the springs from each direction are equalized, it the center of the cam if so equipped
Thinking about upgrading from a t16k to a nxt evo. Is it worth it?
Absolutely, the Evo is better in every way
Did that quite recently. An NXT Evo is expensive, but if its worth the price to you, then 100%, the feel is completely different to a T16000. I was almost shocked how much more precise and pleasant it is to fly with that kind of joystick. The modular nature also should make it easier to repair, should it ever break.
I'd strongly recommend getting the Premium/Space Combat edition, the additional buttons and ministick are really worth it, especially for combat sims like DCS.
Will you consider reviewing yokes when the C-130 comes to DCS? =)
We blow stuff up here. But seriously if I was sent a yoke I would buy I'm not interested in spending my own money on it quite yet
@@FalconsLedge Well admittedly in the back of my mind I was thinking AC-130 (fingies crossed they manage to make that eventually), so "blowing stuff up" was in the plans, hehe.
Fair stance anyway. =)
VKB gang rise up
VKB sticks are great. With the new competition from winwings Orion 2 and the Virpil CM3, VKB will need to innovate do improve their gunfighter to compete, as the CM3 certainly has the tech to beat them. The price is somewhat prohibitive though. On the other hand, in the mid range nothing touches VKB. Once the TECS comes out (this year, and assuming it matches the gladiator in quality) VKB will own the mid range.
What is the helicopter sim he is playing?
DCS
I've got the WinWing Orion 2 HOTAS for F-18 and I cannot for the life of me get the throttle unison connector to slide. Anyone have any ideas on this?
Mine is also difficult, I figured out would loosen up in time, and it has a bit. Loosen the screws connecting the grips/finger lifts to the metal throttle levers, see if it's easy if they are loose. If they are, you need to adjust them and re tighten from there
@@FalconsLedge Thanks, I'll give it a shot!
One thing I would say is to try to get your hands on a working Logitech G940 second hand. It's the only affordable force feedback stick that has enough buttons and axis to be decent in a modern sim and force feedback is a game changer compared to a sprung stick even when you're not actually using the force feedback.
i have a lot of logitech products, mouse and keyboard, headsets. I had some sticks from them but definitely wouldnt buy another logitech flight stick.
I have zero interest in buying into a dead ecosystem from a company that doesn't value my hobby (combat Sims). If you enjoy their products, more power to you. But I won't spend my hard earned money with a company that doesn't value my hobby.
Despite the shitty internals in Warthog stick, I really like it. Once you make the grease mod, the stick is wonderful to fly with. The throttle has some button issues, but not a big deal and again the throttle itself is really fluid and adjustable.
Warthog isn't "bad" it's just not good compared to its competitors. It's not worth the cost at MSRP. There is no reason to buy one in 2022 unless you exclusively fly the a10
@@FalconsLedge This depends where you live. For me personally to buy Virpil, VKB or Winwing is triple the price. So yeah, there is "price" reason. I bought Warthog for 330 eur new together with shipping in discount.
@@herrlogan17 that's below MSRP, again, I said there is no reason to buy Warthog at MSRP in 2022, and I gladly stand by that statement.
@@FalconsLedge Doesnt make sense 😀
There are TH-cam videos on how to take apart the Warthog to lubricate it and to smooth out the action. I did it, it worked.
That helps, but it does not solve the problem. It just hides it from the user.
The VKB Throttle is a joke... I was waiting for it, but after a long time with no news, I got me the WinWing F16ex Orion 2 Stich/Throttle Combo. Great value.
That's funny because VKB has been talking about it. You just have to know where to go to find it. The Orion 2 is a great setup, we'll see how it all pans out.
@@FalconsLedge maybe, but up until April there was not much info from them. They dropped some info now and then, but nothing concrete. I wanted the gladiator and the throttle, because gladiator is a damn good mid tear joystick and I expected much from the throttle. I hope it gets as good ...
I got the combo of the VKB Gladiator Premium and the WinWing Orion (1).
Find the software for the VKB hard to configure, due to its incredible complexity. The Winwing software is ok, but clumsily designed and poorly explained. But seems to do the job.
I do the majority of my comfortable in game, but overall I agree
Yeah thesre is definatly a lack for midrange products, because of TM (and logitech) for producing low quality (with high prices) products.
I highly suggest taking a look at the virpils alpha prime as high cost option while the VKBs will prob remain king/queen/everything else under more cost efficient category.
Will the VKB work with Xbox?
Doubtful
We need industrial mass produced force feedback bases in 2023
Yeah we'll see how that goes. FFB is still extremely niche. I think the major players might be working on them (no not logitech and TM, they are useless and lazy) I heard (and I don't recall where) that there was a FFB patent that just expired? If so that could allow some expansion in the market. Hopefully I'm not wrong.
Hahaha TECS, good one
Verified by VKB themselves, it will be out this year
I think that for a « warthog » priced hotas pairing a Gladiator with a Orion II throttle is a great idea, It’s what I’ve recommended to my friend but I would like so much the throttle that shouldn’t be named because Russian style
Probably not wrong. I have that combination here at the house and I admit I haven't really tried it specifically. I think a lot will change in 2023 for the gladiator combination.
Im partucularly interested in a twing engine with slide instead of arc travel... lest see what 2023 brings
@@-few-fernando11 i mean you don't have choice, TECS or TWCS
@@-few-fernando11 yeah the rail version will be the most expensive, but it could be cool
What has Russia has to do with a throttle?
TLDW : yep its still expensive, yep nothing much changed.
Im not on VKB Discord, so I did not know TECS it was anounced to be released in 2022!
But I doubt TECS is going to be "mid range". It should be the throttle companion to the GUNFIGHTER, not the GLADIATOR...
There you are wrong my friend. There will be three versions of the TECS, one of which will be specifically made for the mid range to pair with the NXT!
@@FalconsLedge Are you sure?
I know there should be like 3 versions/tiers.
Off the top of my head IIRC the price point started in the $300-350.
Thats not mid range to me.
But I might be mistaken on the price.
@@-few-fernando11 ~200 for the mid tier version, 350 for high end arc, ~400 for the high end rail version.
@@FalconsLedge ok. My bad!
I probably confused the low, with the mid tiers.
Hope to have more info about its release soon!
Thanks!
I got tired of waiting for the TECS and bought a VKB WW2 Throttle
soon*
For the love of everything holy VKB.........give us TECS already.
Two weeks ;)
It's almost criminal what Logitech and TM are pricing their products at. Even if they weren't updated but still had a high level of reliability and QC then I can see it. But they're cheap AF and should be priced below the $100 mark. I've been using a TM T-Flight Hotas for a long time which I modded to smooth out the middle throttle detent. The mid-point still has a big deadzone but I'm used to it. I think I paid around $60 for this many years ago and it has held up. Now I'm looking for a more precise system that I can just sit on my desk. The only option I can find is the VKB. I probably will try it without a throttle unit for a while and go from there.
Absolutely true, and I just picked up an x56 and it is b such trash people need to stop buying them.
But still no decent FFB?
I'd have to say most XBOX/PC PS/PC controllers work flawlessly on PC. Especially coming from the wheel market.
Many built for Xbox prepherals have minor oddities and issues on PC. In my research people were having some minor issues with the velocity one on PC. So despite your good experience, the general track record for Xbox/ps hardware on PC is checkered at best. Any problems will probably be ironed out over time.
Fact is: there are just way better options out there than the velocity one, unless you are really into simming on Xbox.
Do not get the x56. The throttle from it is pretty good though.
Throttle is decent, at least till TECS is out. stick is sub par at best.
I had the X56 from Saitek before Logitech got their hands on the company. And it was the worst stick I've ever used. The spring kept creaking no matter how well I tried to grease it. And it could never center properly, leading a lot of drifting issues.
I later switched to a Thrustmaster Warthog, which was night and day in quality and performance. I later picked up a TM T16000 to use as a left stick. And it may not look as pretty as the X56, but it performed immensely better.
If looking for a cheapo entry level stick, i highly recommend considering the T16000. Altough the VKB NXT EVO is looking like much better investment for entry level value.
Currently have a Virpil Constellation Alpha Prime on backorder to use as my new main stick. And considering a VKB NXT EVO to use as a left hand omni throttle.
The gladiator NXT EVO is worlds better than the T16K, it's not even a competition
@@FalconsLedge Agreed, at-least based on what I've seen of it. Still waiting for mine to arrive in mail. And the Virpil is looking like several more weeks on backorder...
Still to the T16K is like a third or fourth the price as the Gladiator, which does make it a pretty good entry level stick if one is really strapped for cash. And you can compensate for its hilarious lack of buttons if paired with the throttle.
But the Gladiator is hands down the best value if one is willing to save a little extra.
In any case i still strongly recommend against ever getting the Logitech X56 if it's build quality is anything like the Saitek version. As that was the worst stick I've ever used in my 30+ years of gaming.
@@parasitex the gladiator is not 4x the price of the T16K
@@FalconsLedge It is for me when you factor in VAT and shipping costs of the Gladiator in EU.
Looked up current prices. These are local Swedish prices in SEK.
Cheapest T16K i could find as of today, goes for 759:- with free shipping.
And the Gladiator Omni Throttle which I bought and costs about the same as the regular premium one, and goes for a total of 3004:- with VAT and shipping. Which is almost exactly 4x the price of the 16K.
If I would have gotten just the Standard Gladiator then that would be a bit over 3x times the price.
i love my x65f in absolute way. but in the same time i like watch something like that. btw in video not showed realsimulator wariants
Realism are great but they are insanely expensive and very very low production. Unless they become much more popular I don't think they will make the list.
X65f is no longer in production and not being sold as new, so doesn't make the list
@@FalconsLedge yes especially pro version lol... no pro without throttle 900euro :) probably they will drop price after competitors take the market for good
@@einherz certainly may be the case with winwing releasing a very realistic pressure sensitive stick. That may force them into competing? Dunno, they may see their customers in some different category and keep their prices high? Tough to say.
@@FalconsLedge may be. i really like pro version conception, but 8k euro it's beyond my understanding:)
@@einherz when you have super low sales numbers everything has to be more expensive. Higher production runs benefit from economies of scale. Truthfully the realsim gear doesn't cost much more to make than winwing if the same production numbers and locations were involved.
But since one produces so much more than the other and is located in China, it's cost is lowered.
All of the budget ones use terrible centering mechanisms with huge bump in the middle and play (wobbliness) (no play with T16000 family). You'll get higher precision with Xbox controller thumbsticks :D Also, the Saitek one has porked magnetic sensors. The output is not linear. EDIT: T1600 family has an accurate sensor. The center bump negates that and in the end you get an inaccurate stick.
one of the many reasons I don't recommend the Logitech sticks at all, and only recommend T16k if you can't afford a gladiator. The gladiator is far superior to all of those sticks by far.
@@FalconsLedge Well, of course crap pot (cheap blocky potentiometers) sticks are a no-go, no matter the price.
Links?
That is something I should add
I'd agree about the screen and ergonomics on the Turtle Beach joystick, but there's no need to speculate about hypothetical problems caused by it being designed for an XBox. There's no reason it couldn't work perfectly well on a PC.
Not speculation I researched prior to the video, found several threads with people having issues with it on PC. I assume these issues are fixed by now but at the time of the video those issues existed.
It's a real shame that VKB is US based. Importing a stick/throttle setup comes down to $400 minimum in the midrange.
VKB is based in China.
Shipping goes hand in hand with the global economy.
I'd rather pay shipping than use lower quality alternatives like Thrustmaster and Logitech.
I wish there was more interoperability between WinWing and VKB grips, to have access to a full range of realistic grips without taking up a shit ton of space or breaking the bank..
Also, why no coverage on the Orion2 throttle? They seem like only option between TWCS and the Mongoose and honestly, if we didn't hear about TECS just recently, i would have bought one....
HOW DARE YOU GIVE US HOPE FOR TECS
Actually I did cover the Orion 2, twice.
TB one is not xbox only natvie, its xbox pc native. Will work 100% on pc. Not my pick for stick though cool looking though.
I never said it was Xbox only, but it is designed from the outset to be an Xbox device. It is also PC compatible. I promise I did research this stuff before adding it to the video ;)
I’m pretty sure literally “always on sale” is illegal via the FTC as fraudulent marketing.
China doesn't give a crap about the FTC. They have literally been on sale for 2 years.
what are the odds that Thrustmaster's Ava base could steal the spotlight from Virpil, VKB and WinWIng because of it being a more mainstream brand? Could it have a big impact in the flight sim arena?
It won't.
Could it sell more? Yes absolutely. But it won't be better than the likes of the CM3 or gunfighter 4. It won't be as good of a value as the Orion 2.
Will it be good? Yeah I think it will. Will it be the best? No. Will it be the best value? Not by a mile.
@@FalconsLedge I have to say I’m very tempted about the mk4 base + space grip but that’s killing my budget for the throttle. I’d love the STECS with the custom detent plates but im not a fan of the analog thumb stick on the side
@@falmatrix2r I'm currently running a Winwing Orion 2 with F15EX grip. I quite like it. I actually have no VKB hardware right now. But because it's not good, but because I cycle through hardware for testing.
If I were to choose between the Orion 2 and STECS, in it's current form I'd buy the Orion 2. Will that change when the high end STECS is released? We'll see.
@@FalconsLedge if I was buying the Orion 2 Max now, it would be 499€ and it doesn’t include the twist axis (which is out of stock)
I was thinking of maybe using one of the thumb sticks as a temporary Z axis
you broke the first rule of HOTAS.... You don't talk about TECS. now it will be delayed again hahaha
Hahaha you've discovered my evil plan!
Where are the 75 dollars ones?
I don't really review sticks in that price range. If there is enough interest I can do some. I think it's a better idea to save up a bit more and buy something like a gladiator NXT
My only suggestion is to maybe break this into two separate videos because you seemed to gloss over many things of interest and it was heavily biased to your ways of operating them.
I've had both the X-52 and the X-56 and now the Winwing Orion 2, and I will say the X-52 is great for the budget conscious, my X-56 was made after Logitech took over and they greatly improved the quality even though there was no visible improvements in the controls themselves, and after over gripping the lever on my four year old X-56 joy stick, it broke and I decided to bit the bullet and bought the Winwing F-16ex with shake kit joystick and the Standard Orion 2 throttle and I am a very happy camper now.
My opinions are developed through all of my research, experience, and knowledge on how joysticks are built. Logitech sticks have poor quality sensors, that is well proven. You had a good experience great. Many others haven't. There are better options out there than the x52 or x56 for not much more money. And I'll stand up to that recommendation. And that isn't even going into buying into a dead ecosystem. You are off course welcome to your opinion.
Thanks for the suggestions.
@@FalconsLedge I agree with your assessment, I just hate a blanket judgement when so many have enjoyed these products and they are still available for those who don't have the deep pockets and just want to test the waters, not a big deal, ;)
@@rwhunt99 is my job and my goal to educate people on that is available and to help them make the best choice on their products. In my opinion logitch just doesn't make products I'd recommend on combat Sims. People are of course allowed to enjoy bad products, and more power to them if they do! After all there are people who enjoyed the star wars sequel trilogy, and those are objectively terrible. But hey if people can be entertained and enjoy bad products, then great those people will have a great time with sub par hardware and apparently bad movies too. And I'm okay with that. But I'll still provide my recommendations as they stand, because I want people to be very satisfied with their investments. ;)
Though if there is the specific scenario where you absolutely only have 149, and you are at a store with an x52 and you cannot save more, then go for it. It will last a while and you can learn to overcome it's horrible sensors. But in that case, what good are reviews anyway, your decision is made for you. These kinds of reviews are really made for people with options.
@@FalconsLedge As you know, getting into DCS is quite expensive, especially if you're new to flight sims, So it is best to start cheap and if you've decided you do like it, then your review will provide people with options.
T16000 is probably the worst peripheral I’ve ever bought. AVOID!
Is it the annoying bump in the middle caused by the plastic ring?
#Virpil I have the alloy prime it is great
Everything I've seen on it says that its a great device. I think the piece that is more overlooked about that release is the features of the new CM3 gimbal. Damping is a very underrated feature, and it seems that Virpil did it right.
I've got the L and R alphas, cm3 gimbal on the left and cm2 gimbal on the right. Fantastic combo.
@@Frozenwinter84 why cm2 on the right, if anything I'd want the cm3 on the right with the damping
@@FalconsLedge I play Elite Dangerous, with the dampening on the left and a z extension the LH stick works as a omni throttle. I have the dampening set to achieve "dead stick" in the y direction for throttle. X direction is free for thrust left and right. Z axis is thrust up and down. I also had the cm2 before the cm3 was released and really didn't feel like replacing a perfectly good gimbal. The cm3 and lh stick replaced a thrustmaster t16000m throttle.