Ive got a Virpil CM3 Mongoose gimbal with a Constellation Alpha grip, a Thrusmaster Warrhog throttle for plane like games, a VKB Gladiator Omnithrottle for 6dof games, and thrustmaster T. Flight rudder pedals if toe brakes are useful, or an old Saitech combat rudder pedals with busted toe brakes if I dont need the brakes. Because Im something of a packrat, I got the warthog gimble and stick, and the Saitech X65 F stick and throttle combo.
Just finding your reviews. I've been in the VKB system for quite some time now and I've never looked back. It's always nice to see some one more casual enter their eco system. For the sensitivity issues you have, you can adjust the curves of the sticks so you can make finer adjustments. This is something that's recommended to do on all medium to high end sticks like these. Essentially so that a small movement gives a small adjustment, and larger ones become more profound. That should help you issue! I also noticed on your previous initial video (you may have fixed this by now), but your left stick was not properly flashed. It was set as a vertical stick and not an OT stick. This also helps! Cheers and thanks for the video!
honestly, these are great. i was flying A-10C and star citizen space mining and low flying and ship on ship combat with PXN-2019Pro and it just was a miss for me. the stick is too small, im size American Large for latex gloves and my hand was cramped in that stick, the throttle felt really nice material wise. Upgraded to VKB Gladiator NXT EVO prem right and basic left. EVERYTHING is better! hahaha. absolutly worth the 350$ i paid for these. i love them. the accuracy is so nice. the material i am quite comfortable with and i love the smaller foot print they have on my desk. it is different flying A-10Cs in arma 3 but it is also an improvement. for star citizen, it has been a large improvement. my left stick is my 3D thrust i dont have the omni-throttle attatchment but for me andf my brain it just works better this way. the omni-throttle would be more practical for when i fly A-10Cs but eh. not enough of a issues for me to puraches and put on, pull off kind of deal when playing 2 different games. overall love these sticks. simple, performance, quality.
Symetery matters less once you start using them. I 3d printed an enlarged rapid trigger and extended pinky button for my left side, if the mcg was available for the nxt my scg would be swapped out for a few more combat oriented controls.
I like the idea of the symmetry, but I'd justify the omni for both for the wrist comfort. Function over form, but when the form is also pretty, game on.
Did you end up getting them? I had the same idea in mind, the difference in price between the premium stick and premium stick with that Omni attachment is only 10 bucks. The biggest problem I have is justifying the $$$ for a controller setup that I’d only use for one game. I keep trying to convince myself that I’ll play more flight games if I get them but Everspace 2 is the only one I’ve stuck with long enough to look into hotas 😅
I've had this setup for a while now, used to be 1 premium and 1 regular for the left hand but the left broke after a while (it was the earlier model and a bit more fragile). I've changed it for the throttle one like yours and been using them for Star Citizen, X4 and Everspace and I absolutely love em. I was gonna get Virpils but damn they had like a 9 month back order list that is absolutely terrible customer service if you ask me.
I had a X-52 Pro. I decided to play some Elite:Dangerous and plug the throttle and stick back in after using the mouse and keyboard. The throttle works, the stick doesn't. Decided to bite the bullet and buy a EVO premium. To say I am happy with it (and that's just assembly and configuration of flight controls) is an understatement. If the build quality is this good on VKB's cheaper range, I can only imagine what the quality is like on VKB's more expensive range.
I have the T1600m and there are two big problems: 1) The TWCS gets sticky real fast...this can be corrected with one of many kits that implement ball bearings. 2) The joystick Z axis potentiometer gets dirty fairly quickly. You have to crack the stick open and clean the top of it (alcohol and a q tip). I would guess you've never had to do these with the VKBs.
It sounds like your issue at 8:48 would be solved with cam based gimbals, so the vkb gunfighter base or virpil bases would have the mechanism you are looking for. The gladiator base in this video uses a different mechanism that is far easier to produce and thats why it is able to stay in it's price range.
Having used the Evo for about a year (I've since upgraded to a Gunfighter), I still believe that the GL Evo is currently the best "entry level premium" stick you can buy. Its construction/build quality felt top notch to me, with the exception of those three rubber-buttons on the base, all buttons/dials and the throttle axis worked and felt great and the adjustable clutches really take it to another level WRT "feel". My very early example wasn't without fault, but those were minor things. Loosening the clutches too much could make the adjustment screws fall out (they hadn't added those "safety plugs" to the clutches yet), the top three buttons on the base felt a bit cheap and one of them could get stuck in the down position when you pushed it and due to the shape and size of its base, it's not really a good choice for a center-mount setup. As for the throttle: If you plan to use it as a regular throttle input (only using the Y-axis and locking out the X-axis), you should probably also consider VKB's STECS line of throttles. The cheapest one of those is only slight more expensive than the Omni-Throttle, but it does offer things like detents and two separate but lockable throttle-grips/ -axes. I've had the chance to try the STECS Standard on a buddy's PC and I was very pleasantly surprised by its build quality and the excellent feel and precision of its throttle action. It's mostly plastic IIRC, but it felt right up there in precision and perceived quality with my Virpil CM3. Of course: Even the Standard is a little cheaper than the Virpil and the "smaller" STECS-variants are considerably more affordable.
I went from the t16000+throttle to the x56 and then earlier this year went for a HOSAS with two virpil alpha primes on warBRD-D bases (left on a z-extension like yours). They ended up being just too large to use sitting on the desk so quickly got some Foxx mounts. Overall I love it. Really only been playing x4 with them, but haven't had any complaints. I connect them to a USB hub at the front underside of my desk when in use and otherwise I can quickly disconnect, undo the foxx mount clamps, move it to the side of my desk or wherever, and they're out of the way. Downsides are they are quite a bit larger especially with the mounts, and as much as the customization of the cams is a plus, it's also a minus as they're not particularly easy to get at and I've had to resolder a connection pin because of all the reassembling. They are also heavy, but that's a plus when in use as it really feeds into the immersion.
@@CaptainCollins Yes. If you look up the WarBRD-D base on their site you can see the construction. It comes with I think 3 sets of springs with different strengths. The Cams allow for changing the movement profile when going from center to the outer edges. Finally, you can adjust the tension of the clutches which is just the amount of resistance. I've used this for the left stick so it stays in place on the Y-axis for use as throttle.
I've been a massive SW FFB fanboi since the days of the very first Sidewinder products (yes, I am that old). I've used a ton of that line (still have that Gamevoice-puck thingy in a drawer somewhere), I've also owned at least three FFs, and I still own a very late FF2, bought right around the time they discontinued the stick. All that said: The Evo is the better stick. Not only is it easy to service/customize - it is *built* to be user-serviceable (to a degree). Most of its grips offer way more functions than the old Sidewinder (unless you count those CH-Fighterstick/Sidewinder Franken-sticks some folks were slapping together back in the day). Most importantly though, it is a current product that is still very much supported by its manufacturer. Good luck trying to get support/repair services from Microsoft for a 20 year-old FF2.
I still use my Sidewinder FFB2 for X4 - it's fantastic! Only one of my buttons on the base is a little stiff, but everything else is still functioning perfectly. I was pleasantly surprised recently to find that War Thunder supports the force feedback functions as well. I'm considering buying a different stick just to keep my FFB2 preserved!
i upgraded to this exact setup after my x52pro finally broke nearly a year ago except i locked out the twist on the omni throttle to act as a pure throttle any my(elite dangerous ) ingame accuracy. has gotten better and my flying is better after going through a muscle memory relearn i love the dry clutches and springs being so incredibly adjustable with my old hotas i couldn’t figure out fixed weapons(elite ) as it was hard to hold my stick in one position the dry clutch fixed that so fixed weps are fun to use now i hgave. my sticks mounted to a desk clamp on mount so i would suggest desk dedicated mounts
Thank you for making the previous review. It made me decide to get these joysticks. Although I bought the omnithrottle later on and the right one isn't premium. They are really so nice.
I've been considering a setup like this for X4. Reviews like this are a must when making a decision about something as expensive and niche as flight gear peripherals, IMO. As a Linux gamer, I'm cautious about buying anything that doesn't specifically mention Linux support. So I've just been using the mouse. I'll have to look into compatibility charts more.
I subbed after watching your previous video about the sticks and now this one. Love the content! Also ordering a pair or sticks myself thanks to your vids!
Not if sure I understood you entirely correctly. But the issue you're having with mining where small changes were a little harder to accomplish, would you be able to create a separate profile on the software and change the deadzones so the movement is much smaller? These things sounds great. I'm gonna put the order in now. Thanks for the video brother.
My T16000m had the yaw drift, another friend of mine who bought his at the same time started doing it earlier. He played a bit more ED than I did so it makes sense, just my 2c I would not recommend that stick given the issues. Regardless great videos, I just bought myself 2 omni with the straight adapter, loved hearing your input on these sticks!
I have the exact same problem on both of my T.16000m sticks. Z-axis is absolute garbage on those. I lost track of how many times I've taken them apart to spray out debris in the pots to get it to stop doing that. It's a design flaw that would be fixed if they'd just use a hall effect sensor. They're literally not fixing the problem because they know better options are 4x the cost and people would rather just buy another cheap one than save up for a decent joystick.
Very nice demo of the VKB sticks, with the way you were demonstrating the "angled" orientation of the left throttle stick and the right, reminds me of how I ride my Harley Davidson Road Glide handle bar...lol...thanks for sharing and you may just have convince me to get this for flying the HPG H145 7 H160
Just bought dual omni sticks and boy do they feel nice. I have large hands and my hands still fit comfortably on them. Though the position of the C1 button does make it a bit difficult to get my thumb on it. Other than that the price is great for these with how much you can customize them to your liking.
I'm confused. You mention the aux/second trigger, but then you talk about the analog hat and point to the one mid-way down the grip. That's a *third* difference, the Premium gets the nicer hat top on the mid-grip hat. The analog/digital hat is up top, it's directly above the red thumb button. You can tell if it's in analog or digital mode by looking for the small red LED next to the large ARGB one. A minor goof? If not, might be worth looking into redoing your control setups. I mostly play War Thunder and flight sims with my HOSAS, and the analog mini-stick is excellent for laser-guided weapons, trim adjustments and the like. If you haven't been using it, you might want to. In Elite, I was using it to control the menu cursors, so I could fly and also run the menus, without having to switch.
Okay, never mind, when you got to the hats, you have it right. The base stick has a single push-button at the mid-grip, the Premium has the 4-way+click hat, and you just got tangled in the first part. Thanks!
Something i noticed on the site with these; The throttle versions cost 40$ more than the standard sticks, but the conversions are only 30$. Now, part of this is that they're the 'premium' versions... But Id say you really do not need that extra stick or fancy trigger when you've got two anyway. Certainly not for the throttle. Something to consider, could save you 10$ and net you a swappable system if you ever so choose as well
i have the EVO omni left. The Gladiator right. Attached to the right one i have a SEM (for even more buttons). I am loving my VKBs. I am using them for 2 years now. no compliants.
Your gaming studio is very very nice. I'd love to upgrade to these sticks one day, I'm getting really good with the dual t16000m but they are a little light so when I get into intense fights I find them lifting off my desk quite a bit.
Went to watch the first video and came back for this one (how's _that_ for retention?!?) -- good stuff and good to know about the 'play' in relation to using the Vulture as it's my main-stay. Eager to receive mine (on back-order and they should be getting a shipment on the 15th but will my order be filled from that shipment or the next one? I have no clue)... Thanks for this and the earlier video - I have a feeling I'll be back on that one when I finally receive my dual sticks (I didn't splurge on the throttle variant, but I might buy the adapter? We'll see...). Thanks for this bud! o7
I NEED to know what brand and model your desktop speakers are under your monitors! And that’s for the in-depth review! I’m going to be getting two sticks for Star Citizen.
If you care about having a z-axis at all, I definitely don't recommend the T.16000m. If they would just switch to a hall effect sensor for them, it would be the perfect affordable option. But those pots die WAY too fast, and "repairing" it is a monumental pain, and they just break again.
I want to get into MSFS and everyone says to get these VKB but as someone who can't feel these stick before buying, it's hard to pull the trigger and get these.
Pull the trigger, I see what you did there ;) True, but check if they have a return policy for your region and just order them to test them out. Maybe you like them, maybe you send them back.
If i get 1 premium and 1 standard will I be able to swith some or all premium to the other side if I wish? Meaning are all the premium components symmetrical or not? Thanks :)
Servus Captain Collins, I have just recently bought the same setup. I am a bit overwhelmed with all the bindings etc. Is there any chance you can show us your bindings (or even a download file) for that setup for X4 please ! Maybe you have one for ED too? :) I really need some help here thanks a lot
I am realling like the looks and features and am thinking of a left and right omni throttle. I think it would be easier on the wrist. How do you handle split throttles for 2 engines? Thanks for the review. I currently have nothing and dont want to buy trash, but I can't afford the high dollar setups. This is pushing it as it is. Thanks again for the great content.
So as an avid DCS fan. You really don't. There isn't anything control wise that you can manipulate individually at the same time on the throttle that wouldn't be awkward. Unfortunately I would strongly suggest getting a dual throttle if you can save for one if you must have split throttle function. Personally I just go without now.
Never placed DCS, but VKB has a lot of throttle kits that add-on to the side of the Gladiator stick, including some that have multiple throttles. Might be worth looking into.
Im kinda thinking about getting viprils Constellation Alpha Prime but its almost 500 euros with taxes and to be fair thats a big downside to swallow, even though the stick is full metal.
Bonjour Merci pour toutes ces informations. J'ai un Thrustmaster dont le joystick vient de rendre l'âme. Il a dépassé la garantie, donc ... poubelle. De toutes façon, au bout de 250 heures, il montrait déjà de grands signes de faiblesse. Je n'utilise qu'un seul jeu : elite dangerous qui pour moi est déjà très chronophage et suffisant. J'ai donc acheté aujourd'hui même le Gladiator NXT Evo et pour le moment, comme mon throttle Thrustmaster fonctionne toujours, je vais coupler les deux sur Elite. J'aurais donc le thrustmaster pour Throttle et le Gladiator en joystick. Dans doute que plus tard (car c'est une somme à dépenser) je m'offrirais un seconde Gladiator en tant que Throttle, on verra ! Je compte plus tard monter ces deux Gladiators sur une planche posée sur le bureau afin d'éviter les éventuels basculement lors de scènes un peu trop mouvementées. Merci pour votre avis, j'avoue que c'est ce qui m'a décidé à investir dans ce Gladiator plutôt que de racheter un Thrustmaster T16000. Certes, le prix est 3 fois plus élevé, mais j'espère au moins que ça ne me lâchera pas au bout d'un an ....
Never mentioned those sticks, since I have not used them. But to be honest: the Logitech sticks look like toys, while the VKB got a "real" feeling. 🤷♂️
In my experience with the X56 HOTAS the throttle is awesome. The flightstick is a hot mess. The gimbal breaks easily. I recently ordered a VKB Gladiator right handed grip and the best thing about it is that it will work very easily alongside the x56 throttle without any problems. VKB sticks, while pricey, come with a two year warranty, are modular, and can be fixed with replacement parts. They have tutorials videos on TH-cam for setting up and repair and a discord channel for getting help with any issues.
I've been using x56 for several years in SC now.. and it did a good job for the bucks.. but lastly one of the throttles broke when i did a fast movement without warming up the oil before.. its still usable when treated with care but i'm about to order the VKB HOSAS once its purchaseable in EU again... Oh . and If u need more precision in twist you could try editing the curves in SC config.. nice video🎉
hello i will buy a single stick from vkb and I will probably buy a vkb throttle once they come back in stock, my question is, how much do I lose from playing with one stick or also hotas (stick +throttle) in star citizen? i know it's hard to convey but I never understood why would you need 2 sticks in space games? ty (cause I will play games like war thunder and dcs where I need precise throttle inputs so I would not use 2 sticks well
In space you have 6 DOF. Hosas allows you to take advantage of all those axis in flight. Right stick with twist gives you Elevation, Roll and rudder. While left stick with twist gives you control of Forward and Reverse strafe, Left/Right strafe and Up/Down strafe. Forward/Reverse strafe is like a 2 direction throttle. In true "Space" the amount of throttle applied correlates to the speed of acceleration. Light throttle over a longer duration gains speed slowly, Full blast speeds up quick. Return to center does not matter because once you achieve the desired speed you stay at that speed...because you are in space. You can even pulse thrust to gain speed or slow down or to make more precise adjustments. In Star Citizen the default is more like "Compensated Space." If you let the throttle return to center you slow down thanks to retro and vectoring thrusters on the ship acting to reproduce your control input against the 0g void of space. You can use the Cruise control button once you hit the desired speed and you will hold that speed when the stick is centered. Or you can go into "Decoupled Mode" which more or less turns off the imitated secondary thrust and returns you to "Real Space" flight. With a slider throttle, you could use the reverse thrust button. This would give Forward/Reverse with full throw precision, but you lose the left/right. and up/down axis and on/off buttons or hats to compensate for it are the opposite of precise. Nothing is a perfect setup as you always have to trade off for something. What I would LOOOVE to try or see how it would feel would be this: A true sliding throttle with a T-grip that rolls forward and back (like a motorcycle throttle) for up/down. Add to this either some kind of twist or lean, which might be awkward, or two analog triggers along the forward edge of the T for left/right strafe. If this exists in anyway...Please someone let me know!!!
@@FuriousImp Correct, EVO is the refined version of the original NXT stick/base combo. I don't think the original one is made anymore as doing so would be pointless. The Omnithrottle is the adapter that allows you to angle the stick (the piece that fits between the stick and base). I'm pretty sure the adapter can be easily removed if you want to switch back and forth between the normal straight stick config and angled.
Or, even better, get a pedal set and disable the left twist. You'll keep you're controls as similiar to flight sims as possible leading to not having that "damn muscle memory" issue if you switch between them. I currently run VKB omni+sem on the left VKB premium+sem right and t-rudders since I don't want to deal with brakes.
Basicaly i have a Thrustmaster Warthog and Mfg Crosswind Pedals i use in DCS World ... but in X4 i use an 16 Years old Saitek X52 Pro......... it simply works best an is more easy to setup because the MFGs do not really work in X4.... :)
ACTUALLY 😬☝️ it's better for your wrists and feels more natural to hold your hands like that. Try it out: reach naturally to something in front of you: there you go, onmi fits ;)
Here's my report: After one year - my VKB Gladiator malfunctions on all computers and cables and VKB won't do anything about it. Conclusion: - It was a good stick for one year but now it is totally unreliable in game. ........and may quit every 5 minutes.
Here is a video how it's possible to mod the throttle so the spring works only in one direction. Forwards keeps the position and backwards it resets to the center: th-cam.com/video/WPeLB5sXack/w-d-xo.html ... Got my second stick today asambled it and modded my omni throttle. still have to try it. i'm not sure if i had should choose a second omni throttle. 42€ for just the omni adapter is pretty expensive :/
i upgraded to this exact setup after my x52pro finally broke nearly a year ago except i locked out the twist on the omni throttle to act as a pure throttle any my(elite dangerous ) ingame accuracy. has gotten better and my flying is better after going through a muscle memory relearn i love the dry clutches and springs being so incredibly adjustable with my old hotas i couldn’t figure out fixed weapons(elite ) as it was hard to hold my stick in one position the dry clutch fixed that so fixed weps are fun to use now i hgave. my sticks mounted to a desk clamp on mount so i would suggest desk dedicated mounts
Tell me about your setups and the sticks you use!
What do you think about the VKB's?
I've been using Virpil (stick and throttle) plus the old Logitech Flight Panels. I have to say, I am quite pleased!
Ive got a Virpil CM3 Mongoose gimbal with a Constellation Alpha grip, a Thrusmaster Warrhog throttle for plane like games, a VKB Gladiator Omnithrottle for 6dof games, and thrustmaster T. Flight rudder pedals if toe brakes are useful, or an old Saitech combat rudder pedals with busted toe brakes if I dont need the brakes.
Because Im something of a packrat, I got the warthog gimble and stick, and the Saitech X65 F stick and throttle combo.
Just finding your reviews. I've been in the VKB system for quite some time now and I've never looked back. It's always nice to see some one more casual enter their eco system. For the sensitivity issues you have, you can adjust the curves of the sticks so you can make finer adjustments. This is something that's recommended to do on all medium to high end sticks like these. Essentially so that a small movement gives a small adjustment, and larger ones become more profound. That should help you issue! I also noticed on your previous initial video (you may have fixed this by now), but your left stick was not properly flashed. It was set as a vertical stick and not an OT stick. This also helps! Cheers and thanks for the video!
honestly, these are great. i was flying A-10C and star citizen space mining and low flying and ship on ship combat with PXN-2019Pro and it just was a miss for me. the stick is too small, im size American Large for latex gloves and my hand was cramped in that stick, the throttle felt really nice material wise.
Upgraded to VKB Gladiator NXT EVO prem right and basic left.
EVERYTHING is better! hahaha. absolutly worth the 350$ i paid for these. i love them.
the accuracy is so nice. the material i am quite comfortable with and i love the smaller foot print they have on my desk.
it is different flying A-10Cs in arma 3 but it is also an improvement.
for star citizen, it has been a large improvement. my left stick is my 3D thrust i dont have the omni-throttle attatchment but for me andf my brain it just works better this way.
the omni-throttle would be more practical for when i fly A-10Cs but eh. not enough of a issues for me to puraches and put on, pull off kind of deal when playing 2 different games.
overall love these sticks. simple, performance, quality.
Actually tempted to just get two Omni-Throttle versions for less wrist strain. I'm also a sucker for symmetry.
I just ordered 2 with 1 adapter!
Symetery matters less once you start using them. I 3d printed an enlarged rapid trigger and extended pinky button for my left side, if the mcg was available for the nxt my scg would be swapped out for a few more combat oriented controls.
I like the idea of the symmetry, but I'd justify the omni for both for the wrist comfort. Function over form, but when the form is also pretty, game on.
Basic wrist exercises can help negate these things aswell if it start getting more of an issue.
Did you end up getting them? I had the same idea in mind, the difference in price between the premium stick and premium stick with that Omni attachment is only 10 bucks.
The biggest problem I have is justifying the $$$ for a controller setup that I’d only use for one game. I keep trying to convince myself that I’ll play more flight games if I get them but Everspace 2 is the only one I’ve stuck with long enough to look into hotas 😅
I've had this setup for a while now, used to be 1 premium and 1 regular for the left hand but the left broke after a while (it was the earlier model and a bit more fragile). I've changed it for the throttle one like yours and been using them for Star Citizen, X4 and Everspace and I absolutely love em. I was gonna get Virpils but damn they had like a 9 month back order list that is absolutely terrible customer service if you ask me.
Oh wow. But hey, great that you're liking your setup! 👍
I had a X-52 Pro. I decided to play some Elite:Dangerous and plug the throttle and stick back in after using the mouse and keyboard. The throttle works, the stick doesn't. Decided to bite the bullet and buy a EVO premium. To say I am happy with it (and that's just assembly and configuration of flight controls) is an understatement. If the build quality is this good on VKB's cheaper range, I can only imagine what the quality is like on VKB's more expensive range.
I have the T1600m and there are two big problems: 1) The TWCS gets sticky real fast...this can be corrected with one of many kits that implement ball bearings. 2) The joystick Z axis potentiometer gets dirty fairly quickly. You have to crack the stick open and clean the top of it (alcohol and a q tip). I would guess you've never had to do these with the VKBs.
Here's a short, that will help with the sticky TWCS: th-cam.com/users/shortsGrZoh166eLQ , super quick and easy solution ;)
@@CaptainCollins Tried that but after awhile, even that didn't help. Ball bearing kit solved it.
It sounds like your issue at 8:48 would be solved with cam based gimbals, so the vkb gunfighter base or virpil bases would have the mechanism you are looking for. The gladiator base in this video uses a different mechanism that is far easier to produce and thats why it is able to stay in it's price range.
Having used the Evo for about a year (I've since upgraded to a Gunfighter), I still believe that the GL Evo is currently the best "entry level premium" stick you can buy. Its construction/build quality felt top notch to me, with the exception of those three rubber-buttons on the base, all buttons/dials and the throttle axis worked and felt great and the adjustable clutches really take it to another level WRT "feel". My very early example wasn't without fault, but those were minor things. Loosening the clutches too much could make the adjustment screws fall out (they hadn't added those "safety plugs" to the clutches yet), the top three buttons on the base felt a bit cheap and one of them could get stuck in the down position when you pushed it and due to the shape and size of its base, it's not really a good choice for a center-mount setup.
As for the throttle: If you plan to use it as a regular throttle input (only using the Y-axis and locking out the X-axis), you should probably also consider VKB's STECS line of throttles. The cheapest one of those is only slight more expensive than the Omni-Throttle, but it does offer things like detents and two separate but lockable throttle-grips/ -axes. I've had the chance to try the STECS Standard on a buddy's PC and I was very pleasantly surprised by its build quality and the excellent feel and precision of its throttle action. It's mostly plastic IIRC, but it felt right up there in precision and perceived quality with my Virpil CM3. Of course: Even the Standard is a little cheaper than the Virpil and the "smaller" STECS-variants are considerably more affordable.
Perhaps using a HOTAS mounting plate system will elevate the cons you mentioned.
I went from the t16000+throttle to the x56 and then earlier this year went for a HOSAS with two virpil alpha primes on warBRD-D bases (left on a z-extension like yours). They ended up being just too large to use sitting on the desk so quickly got some Foxx mounts. Overall I love it. Really only been playing x4 with them, but haven't had any complaints. I connect them to a USB hub at the front underside of my desk when in use and otherwise I can quickly disconnect, undo the foxx mount clamps, move it to the side of my desk or wherever, and they're out of the way. Downsides are they are quite a bit larger especially with the mounts, and as much as the customization of the cams is a plus, it's also a minus as they're not particularly easy to get at and I've had to resolder a connection pin because of all the reassembling. They are also heavy, but that's a plus when in use as it really feeds into the immersion.
Do the Virpil use springs too or something else?
@@CaptainCollins Yes. If you look up the WarBRD-D base on their site you can see the construction. It comes with I think 3 sets of springs with different strengths. The Cams allow for changing the movement profile when going from center to the outer edges. Finally, you can adjust the tension of the clutches which is just the amount of resistance. I've used this for the left stick so it stays in place on the Y-axis for use as throttle.
How did you like the X56 throttle? im thinking of pairing it with a VKB Gladiator stick for MSFS
9:00 the joystick that use servo or gears: the venerable microsoft sidewinder ffb2
I've been a massive SW FFB fanboi since the days of the very first Sidewinder products (yes, I am that old). I've used a ton of that line (still have that Gamevoice-puck thingy in a drawer somewhere), I've also owned at least three FFs, and I still own a very late FF2, bought right around the time they discontinued the stick.
All that said: The Evo is the better stick. Not only is it easy to service/customize - it is *built* to be user-serviceable (to a degree). Most of its grips offer way more functions than the old Sidewinder (unless you count those CH-Fighterstick/Sidewinder Franken-sticks some folks were slapping together back in the day). Most importantly though, it is a current product that is still very much supported by its manufacturer. Good luck trying to get support/repair services from Microsoft for a 20 year-old FF2.
I still use my Sidewinder FFB2 for X4 - it's fantastic! Only one of my buttons on the base is a little stiff, but everything else is still functioning perfectly. I was pleasantly surprised recently to find that War Thunder supports the force feedback functions as well. I'm considering buying a different stick just to keep my FFB2 preserved!
Still usinf the FFB2 in Elite Dangerous and i love it, its very precise also and shows no sign of wear after all the years
i upgraded to this exact setup after my x52pro finally broke nearly a year ago except i locked out the twist on the omni throttle to act as a pure throttle any my(elite dangerous ) ingame accuracy. has gotten better and my flying is better after going through a muscle memory relearn i love the dry clutches and springs being so incredibly adjustable with my old hotas i couldn’t figure out fixed weapons(elite ) as it was hard to hold my stick in one position the dry clutch fixed that so fixed weps are fun to use now i hgave. my sticks mounted to a desk clamp on mount so i would suggest desk dedicated mounts
Thank you for making the previous review. It made me decide to get these joysticks. Although I bought the omnithrottle later on and the right one isn't premium. They are really so nice.
Glad to read! 👍
I've been considering a setup like this for X4. Reviews like this are a must when making a decision about something as expensive and niche as flight gear peripherals, IMO.
As a Linux gamer, I'm cautious about buying anything that doesn't specifically mention Linux support. So I've just been using the mouse. I'll have to look into compatibility charts more.
Oh, can't tell you anything about Linux compatibility, but I know that a lot of Linux X4 players are on my Discord server if you want to ask there 👍
@@CaptainCollins Good to know! Thanks!
I subbed after watching your previous video about the sticks and now this one. Love the content! Also ordering a pair or sticks myself thanks to your vids!
Not if sure I understood you entirely correctly. But the issue you're having with mining where small changes were a little harder to accomplish, would you be able to create a separate profile on the software and change the deadzones so the movement is much smaller? These things sounds great. I'm gonna put the order in now. Thanks for the video brother.
Virpil is mechanical cams not springs. Noobifier has detailed videos if you want to learn more.
My T16000m had the yaw drift, another friend of mine who bought his at the same time started doing it earlier. He played a bit more ED than I did so it makes sense, just my 2c I would not recommend that stick given the issues. Regardless great videos, I just bought myself 2 omni with the straight adapter, loved hearing your input on these sticks!
I have the exact same problem on both of my T.16000m sticks. Z-axis is absolute garbage on those. I lost track of how many times I've taken them apart to spray out debris in the pots to get it to stop doing that. It's a design flaw that would be fixed if they'd just use a hall effect sensor. They're literally not fixing the problem because they know better options are 4x the cost and people would rather just buy another cheap one than save up for a decent joystick.
One thing i wish i could aford is a 6 axis sim cockpit. Its a chair that your stuff mounts to that simulates turns rolls ect
I think right now about buying these sticks, perfect timing !
Great, both videos together should tell you enough to make your decision easier. You con also join the stream anytime and ask away :)
Very nice demo of the VKB sticks, with the way you were demonstrating the "angled" orientation of the left throttle stick and the right, reminds me of how I ride my Harley Davidson Road Glide handle bar...lol...thanks for sharing and you may just have convince me to get this for flying the HPG H145 7 H160
Just bought dual omni sticks and boy do they feel nice. I have large hands and my hands still fit comfortably on them. Though the position of the C1 button does make it a bit difficult to get my thumb on it. Other than that the price is great for these with how much you can customize them to your liking.
I'm confused. You mention the aux/second trigger, but then you talk about the analog hat and point to the one mid-way down the grip. That's a *third* difference, the Premium gets the nicer hat top on the mid-grip hat. The analog/digital hat is up top, it's directly above the red thumb button. You can tell if it's in analog or digital mode by looking for the small red LED next to the large ARGB one. A minor goof? If not, might be worth looking into redoing your control setups. I mostly play War Thunder and flight sims with my HOSAS, and the analog mini-stick is excellent for laser-guided weapons, trim adjustments and the like. If you haven't been using it, you might want to. In Elite, I was using it to control the menu cursors, so I could fly and also run the menus, without having to switch.
Okay, never mind, when you got to the hats, you have it right. The base stick has a single push-button at the mid-grip, the Premium has the 4-way+click hat, and you just got tangled in the first part. Thanks!
I got the same set last july, after seeing your vid about them. So it is because of you i have amazing sticks! THANKS!!!!
So nice to read! Awesome :)
The only thing i did in the software was turning the deadzone for the X and Y axes to 0
yeah right, you really don't need them :)
Something i noticed on the site with these;
The throttle versions cost 40$ more than the standard sticks, but the conversions are only 30$.
Now, part of this is that they're the 'premium' versions... But Id say you really do not need that extra stick or fancy trigger when you've got two anyway. Certainly not for the throttle.
Something to consider, could save you 10$ and net you a swappable system if you ever so choose as well
i have the EVO omni left. The Gladiator right. Attached to the right one i have a SEM (for even more buttons).
I am loving my VKBs. I am using them for 2 years now. no compliants.
Very detailed and honest review
Thanks
Thank you, super helpful!
9:30 Saitek cyborg 3d was such a goated stick at the time!
100% !
Your gaming studio is very very nice. I'd love to upgrade to these sticks one day, I'm getting really good with the dual t16000m but they are a little light so when I get into intense fights I find them lifting off my desk quite a bit.
Are frames being dropped? I know youtubers like to add unnecessary jump cuts, however this seems more like frame drops...
The servo stick you want would cost like 2500 dollars......LOL..... amazing to have one, though.
Went to watch the first video and came back for this one (how's _that_ for retention?!?) -- good stuff and good to know about the 'play' in relation to using the Vulture as it's my main-stay. Eager to receive mine (on back-order and they should be getting a shipment on the 15th but will my order be filled from that shipment or the next one? I have no clue)... Thanks for this and the earlier video - I have a feeling I'll be back on that one when I finally receive my dual sticks (I didn't splurge on the throttle variant, but I might buy the adapter? We'll see...). Thanks for this bud! o7
You're so damn welcome 💪 great you got the info you needed out of this. Let me know how you like yours, once they're there 👍
I NEED to know what brand and model your desktop speakers are under your monitors! And that’s for the in-depth review! I’m going to be getting two sticks for Star Citizen.
Very simple and cheap Logitech Z200. My second pair after the first died. They are just perfect for a "flat" use :)
If you care about having a z-axis at all, I definitely don't recommend the T.16000m. If they would just switch to a hall effect sensor for them, it would be the perfect affordable option. But those pots die WAY too fast, and "repairing" it is a monumental pain, and they just break again.
I think you meant wrist rather than ankle! Unless you use your joystick with your feet!
But your video is really fartin' sparks trapmire! Great stuff.
3:16 You can really go down on these sticks. 😂
My mind goes places sometimes :D (didn't knew what I said there at the time since non-native-speaker)
The second I saw a Vulture, I knew, I'm home
I want to get into MSFS and everyone says to get these VKB but as someone who can't feel these stick before buying, it's hard to pull the trigger and get these.
Pull the trigger, I see what you did there ;) True, but check if they have a return policy for your region and just order them to test them out. Maybe you like them, maybe you send them back.
3:15 You can do what to those sticks? I think I misheard. ;3
Great video! Earned a sub.
If i get 1 premium and 1 standard will I be able to swith some or all premium to the other side if I wish? Meaning are all the premium components symmetrical or not? Thanks :)
Did you have any success using this HOTAS with X4? The 7.00 beta X4 version?
can the omni one be used as trottle control?
Yes
Are the sticks heavy enough to not worry about lifting them up during normal - say pve - gameplay?
Yeah, you get used to it and it shouldn't be a problem after a few times playing
Servus Captain Collins, I have just recently bought the same setup. I am a bit overwhelmed with all the bindings etc. Is there any chance you can show us your bindings (or even a download file) for that setup for X4 please ! Maybe you have one for ED too? :) I really need some help here thanks a lot
Just released a video about that! :) Take a look at the channel
I am realling like the looks and features and am thinking of a left and right omni throttle. I think it would be easier on the wrist. How do you handle split throttles for 2 engines? Thanks for the review. I currently have nothing and dont want to buy trash, but I can't afford the high dollar setups. This is pushing it as it is. Thanks again for the great content.
So as an avid DCS fan. You really don't. There isn't anything control wise that you can manipulate individually at the same time on the throttle that wouldn't be awkward.
Unfortunately I would strongly suggest getting a dual throttle if you can save for one if you must have split throttle function.
Personally I just go without now.
Never placed DCS, but VKB has a lot of throttle kits that add-on to the side of the Gladiator stick, including some that have multiple throttles. Might be worth looking into.
@@PocketsandOutlaw thanks
Im kinda thinking about getting viprils Constellation Alpha Prime but its almost 500 euros with taxes and to be fair thats a big downside to swallow, even though the stick is full metal.
Bonjour
Merci pour toutes ces informations. J'ai un Thrustmaster dont le joystick vient de rendre l'âme. Il a dépassé la garantie, donc ... poubelle. De toutes façon, au bout de 250 heures, il montrait déjà de grands signes de faiblesse.
Je n'utilise qu'un seul jeu : elite dangerous qui pour moi est déjà très chronophage et suffisant. J'ai donc acheté aujourd'hui même le Gladiator NXT Evo et pour le moment, comme mon throttle Thrustmaster fonctionne toujours, je vais coupler les deux sur Elite. J'aurais donc le thrustmaster pour Throttle et le Gladiator en joystick. Dans doute que plus tard (car c'est une somme à dépenser) je m'offrirais un seconde Gladiator en tant que Throttle, on verra !
Je compte plus tard monter ces deux Gladiators sur une planche posée sur le bureau afin d'éviter les éventuels basculement lors de scènes un peu trop mouvementées.
Merci pour votre avis, j'avoue que c'est ce qui m'a décidé à investir dans ce Gladiator plutôt que de racheter un Thrustmaster T16000. Certes, le prix est 3 fois plus élevé, mais j'espère au moins que ça ne me lâchera pas au bout d'un an ....
Hi, at 17:27 you have that template , where can i download this, i see no where on they site, you have any link or something to download, thanks
The controller setting is part of the 7.00 update, so get tze beta or just wait a few days :)
Can someone help/share msfs bindings for dual vkb setup (omni left stick)
Is the only thing unique about the omni is the angle?
Yes. Basically that's it.
Servo based joystick would probably set you back more then a grand a piece.
Good explanation Cap 👍👍👍 But it is really better than a X52 or X56?
Never mentioned those sticks, since I have not used them. But to be honest: the Logitech sticks look like toys, while the VKB got a "real" feeling. 🤷♂️
In my experience with the X56 HOTAS the throttle is awesome. The flightstick is a hot mess. The gimbal breaks easily. I recently ordered a VKB Gladiator right handed grip and the best thing about it is that it will work very easily alongside the x56 throttle without any problems. VKB sticks, while pricey, come with a two year warranty, are modular, and can be fixed with replacement parts. They have tutorials videos on TH-cam for setting up and repair and a discord channel for getting help with any issues.
I've been using x56 for several years in SC now.. and it did a good job for the bucks.. but lastly one of the throttles broke when i did a fast movement without warming up the oil before.. its still usable when treated with care but i'm about to order the VKB HOSAS once its purchaseable in EU again...
Oh . and If u need more precision in twist you could try editing the curves in SC config.. nice video🎉
hello i will buy a single stick from vkb and I will probably buy a vkb throttle once they come back in stock, my question is, how much do I lose from playing with one stick or also hotas (stick +throttle) in star citizen? i know it's hard to convey but I never understood why would you need 2 sticks in space games? ty (cause I will play games like war thunder and dcs where I need precise throttle inputs so I would not use 2 sticks well
In space you have 6 DOF. Hosas allows you to take advantage of all those axis in flight. Right stick with twist gives you Elevation, Roll and rudder. While left stick with twist gives you control of Forward and Reverse strafe, Left/Right strafe and Up/Down strafe.
Forward/Reverse strafe is like a 2 direction throttle. In true "Space" the amount of throttle applied correlates to the speed of acceleration. Light throttle over a longer duration gains speed slowly, Full blast speeds up quick. Return to center does not matter because once you achieve the desired speed you stay at that speed...because you are in space. You can even pulse thrust to gain speed or slow down or to make more precise adjustments.
In Star Citizen the default is more like "Compensated Space." If you let the throttle return to center you slow down thanks to retro and vectoring thrusters on the ship acting to reproduce your control input against the 0g void of space. You can use the Cruise control button once you hit the desired speed and you will hold that speed when the stick is centered. Or you can go into "Decoupled Mode" which more or less turns off the imitated secondary thrust and returns you to "Real Space" flight.
With a slider throttle, you could use the reverse thrust button. This would give Forward/Reverse with full throw precision, but you lose the left/right. and up/down axis and on/off buttons or hats to compensate for it are the opposite of precise. Nothing is a perfect setup as you always have to trade off for something.
What I would LOOOVE to try or see how it would feel would be this:
A true sliding throttle with a T-grip that rolls forward and back (like a motorcycle throttle) for up/down. Add to this either some kind of twist or lean, which might be awkward, or two analog triggers along the forward edge of the T for left/right strafe. If this exists in anyway...Please someone let me know!!!
I suprised your not using mounts by any brand. I bought MonsterTech with my VKB NXT EVO and Omni Throttle.
I was in contact with Monstertech, but Virpil send me a pair of sticks with mounts, so no need for VKB mounts 🤷♂️
Why not go both EVO for the wrist?
I thought about it, but somehow my mind can't fathom the idea of having two angled sticks...
Hang on I thought EVO was the premium base whereas the Omnithrottle was the angled stick?
@@FuriousImp Correct, EVO is the refined version of the original NXT stick/base combo. I don't think the original one is made anymore as doing so would be pointless. The Omnithrottle is the adapter that allows you to angle the stick (the piece that fits between the stick and base). I'm pretty sure the adapter can be easily removed if you want to switch back and forth between the normal straight stick config and angled.
Or, even better, get a pedal set and disable the left twist.
You'll keep you're controls as similiar to flight sims as possible leading to not having that "damn muscle memory" issue if you switch between them.
I currently run VKB omni+sem on the left VKB premium+sem right and t-rudders since I don't want to deal with brakes.
Basicaly i have a Thrustmaster Warthog and Mfg Crosswind Pedals i use in DCS World ... but in X4 i use an 16 Years old Saitek X52 Pro......... it simply works best an is more easy to setup because the MFGs do not really work in X4.... :)
Is there an advantage to using two omnis? I'm very hesitant
ACTUALLY 😬☝️ it's better for your wrists and feels more natural to hold your hands like that. Try it out: reach naturally to something in front of you: there you go, onmi fits ;)
@@CaptainCollins This is exactly the answer I was expecting, ty sir !
Can we get a best M size hand video? /s
no :D
Why is the writing on your hat reversed but the writing on your chest is the right way around?
That's a question for a different topic 😅
Here's my report: After one year - my VKB Gladiator malfunctions on all computers and cables and VKB won't do anything about it. Conclusion: - It was a good stick for one year but now it is totally unreliable in game.
........and may quit every 5 minutes.
Strickland playing star citizen ?
perfectly clean, no wear and tear....no mounts for them......they have sat in a box for a year
oh no, just because you don't have mounts? VKB has got some fitting ones. Other custom manufacturers make them too.
Any Vendetta Online pilots?
Here is a video how it's possible to mod the throttle so the spring works only in one direction. Forwards keeps the position and backwards it resets to the center: th-cam.com/video/WPeLB5sXack/w-d-xo.html ... Got my second stick today asambled it and modded my omni throttle. still have to try it. i'm not sure if i had should choose a second omni throttle. 42€ for just the omni adapter is pretty expensive :/
TLDW: WAS IT GOOD?
Yes
1424 Feeney Walks
Halvorson Lodge
9:00 du kannst irgendeinw Feder rausnehmen, dann hört es auf auf 0 Position zu gehen. Google mal
Armstrong Corners
1393 Reid Locks
800 Timothy Turnpike
Bart Lakes
1161 Frami Junctions
Porter Rue
Davion Overpass
Wiegand Road
Looks like cheap plastic.
Their software blows sticks are mediocre at best save for Virpil sticks.
I still think they look cheap.
Saw your comment on the other video :D they do not feel cheap though, that's more important ;)
@@CaptainCollins I can agree with that, hence looking at reviews ;) I just hate that seem line on them.
i upgraded to this exact setup after my x52pro finally broke nearly a year ago except i locked out the twist on the omni throttle to act as a pure throttle any my(elite dangerous ) ingame accuracy. has gotten better and my flying is better after going through a muscle memory relearn i love the dry clutches and springs being so incredibly adjustable with my old hotas i couldn’t figure out fixed weapons(elite ) as it was hard to hold my stick in one position the dry clutch fixed that so fixed weps are fun to use now i hgave. my sticks mounted to a desk clamp on mount so i would suggest desk dedicated mounts