Federal Shorty 00 buck and #4 buck. Shockwave. Clear Ballistics Gelatin.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- Testing the terminal ballistic and pattern performance of the Federal Shorty 12 gauge ammunition number 4 buckshot and 00 buckshot offerings using man sized silhouette targets and clear ballistics gel.
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![Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3haq5BFh7qs/mqdefault.jpg)
Excellent job. Proves that the combination of the Shockwave and Shorty shells is a capable home defense combination.
That's what I'm going to use!
@@god-gunsmerica9043 Excellent choice!
For my home needs, that’s the exact #4 pattern performance I want (smaller rooms, no kids in other rooms).
Depending on situation, I think some put too much emphasis on super tight patterns. Yes, at work, I want my Federal 12 gauge 00Buck w/ FlightControl wad.
Again, very situation dependent.
TY for the great content!
This man is firearms content king. Literally comes up with defensive shotgun content as I'm thinking of it. Been debating 4 buck vs short shells from a shockwave for a minute. Bravo sir.
4 buck is it for me.
What is the attachment on the side of the pump?
@@soonerfrac4611 The recoil strap that he puts his hand in? He sells it on his website, they’re like $35 or something. Demonstrated Concepts
High winds, subwoofer is not trying to topple my house. Someone did some EQ on the audio! NICE!
Thanks. Trying. Our winds are… aggressive.
That was pretty awesome. I've wanted to try the cheek shotgun for some time now, and that #4 buck might have just tipped me over the edge. If only federal used the copper plated shot in the 00 buck. It would also be pretty cool if they went with #1 buck instead of the #4 and get something like 9 pellets in a load.
The 00buck load is absolutely perfect for most IF they give it regular solid plated shot.
Federal just released some #1 buck for hunting, I believe they're 16 pellets in a shell. I'm interested in getting them for home defense to get the best of both worlds in terms of power and not over penetration.
This is exactly the testing people need to do. Every gun is different. Well done.
My shockwave is threaded for chokes. I've only tested one type at 70' due to availability but so far so good. But mine isn't for home defense.
Your shockwave came from the factory threaded for chokes? Or did you have that done by a custom shop? Is it the 14” barreled shockwave?
#4 is perfectly capable. It’ll generally stop in the exit side hide of a deer from a broad side shot. It’ll most definitely reach vitals in a soft squishy brittle human lol
Like I said in my comment, he's applying an FBI handgun standard to 2 magazines worth of projectiles in one shot.
I have the 18.5 inch barrel shockwave. I shoot standard 00 Buck, 2.5 inch...and find the recoil to be minimal. This is one of the main reasons I chose the 18.5 inch over the more popular 14 inch featured in this video. I feel that with the 18.5 inch barrel, I don't compromise on maneuverability or penetration. I enjoyed your video.
BEST Ever Shockwave video with shorties for home defense on the internet!!!!
thanks for sharing.
Another cool thing about the 590S is that it can load/feed/cycle any combination of shell sizes you put into it :) if you're into that sort of thing.
"What we got here is a gel block dressed in a Canadian tuxedo." Good stuff.
Your the first U tuber that I've seen that made a vid about these, I was impressed for a house load or a truck gun load, thx for the vid P.S. I just subbed you after reading some of the other comments, thx
I love how genuinely excited you are haha!
Outstanding as always. Thank you!
This is the exact video review I was wanting. Thank you for this!!!
This is another great vid I dont miss anything you put out please keep sending out common sense vids its refreshing in a time of tactical ninjas every place you look on youtube
Thanks...needs to be a Semi-Auto designed specifically for Minishells...almost all places I've lived 11 yards seems the farthest Likely long shot used that distance in my Buckshot Size Selection video so I'm OK w #1 buck or the Aguilla Mixed #1/#4 minishell is tight enough for me w the #1s going deeper.
I’ve always loaded the Aguila 1B/4B in my shockwave, but this video convinced me to buy a bunch of federal’s #4B shorties.
The Aguila buck patterns unpredictably and their muzzle velocities are often significantly underpowered. True, for most common home distances all shot will probably hit target, but I’ll trade their 4 additional 1B’s (which may not actually penetrate deeper than federal’s 4B’s if they’re underpowered) for the the peace of mind of federal’s consistent patterning and penetration, plus 4 more pellets overall to boot.
It’s awesome to know that even if I had to stretch out to 20 yards, I could with federal’s 4B’s! That’s very impressive for a short buck load.
@@goodnessgraciousitellya5004 I'm thinking of getting one of the shorty shotguns for home defense. Do you know any minishell loads that are cheaper than Federal's that I could use for training? Or would you stick to the cheapest Federal shorties for training as well?
@@AzayBaeost will say to train with what you will use for defense. You at least want the recoil to be the same, so I see no harm in training with a similar load.
I wonder if the minimum 12” from the FBI is really as necessary with buckshot? They were testing performance of single shots to stop a fight. But your chest getting hit by 6-15 pellets, I would imagine even 8+ inches is more than enough. Of course I’m just speculating.
I think you are right, the entry alone is gonna disrupt pretty much everything going on inside you.
its more for big fat folks. there has been cases where larger people didnt have vital organs hit because the bullets get blocked by fat. think about it.. if someone has a 1 foot or larger belly, most of its fat and skin, some muscle, but vital organs are more then a foot tucked behind the gut. chest is harder to be that thick, but in the winter time, with lots of layers, and thick puffy winter coats.. you really do want 12-18 inches even with buckshot, in my opinion. really want to be sure you wont fail to stop them even in the worst case scenarios
I almost typed out the same comment! I agree penetration only matters when it’s a single projectile. Mangling a two inch area of flesh on someone’s chest and pellets in all the major organs would be the end.
@@jackgreenstalk777there was a big fella here who got peppered with all the Glock 17 fmj and lived.
I truly hope Federal makes #1 buck.
A fantastic round.
Teaching my grandkids shooting. When it came to shotgun, the 20 gauge did not go over well. Switched to a Keltec KS7 with the mini shells. The 12 gauge was very popular. Used birdshot, buckshot, and slug.
Thank you for your tests and discussion.
You don't necessarily need to use 00 buck for indoor self-defense. The one thing you don't want indoors is over-penetration. That's why I prefer the #4 buck mini shells that Federal and Aguila have offered for years. If I did use 00 buck, then these split pellet shells would actually be better. Trust me, even 5.5" of penetration with 00 buck will put someone down at indoor distances of under 20 feet.
5.5” of penetration is never enough…unless you’re coping with genetics.
Then, of course, it’s PLENTY!
Damn, the mini X2’s are 3x the price of the #4B shorties!
Last I had purchased mini shells, federal had nothing but #8 available for months. I reluctantly stocked up in the Aguila #1B/#4B but I totally agree: they pattern like shit.
Anyway, glad to see the federal #4B is bountiful at the moments, I wouldn’t have thought to search if not for your video.
Solid content, have a 590s I recently purchased and bought your strap. What pic rail, sight, and light/rail do you have on your 590s?
Fantastic testing, love the low recoil shells. How did you create/attach that little grip stud thing to the shotgun and is it for a more stable/vertical grip posture?
Thanks for the video. I know a lot goes into any video. You had lots of good information without a lot of fluff. It kept me watching. Fluff without editing or bad editing just turns me off. I don't want to waste my time watching fluff. But this was not you. I just bought the Shockwave 590S and was looking for number 4 buck when this came up. Great video, keep up the good work.
That pattern at 25yds is pretty impressive. Shoot that a few more times to see if you get the same result. The devastating effect of s shotgun is due to the number of rounds put on target. It is not necessarily about the location of the hits. As a civilian defense, one wants to stop an assault not kill, per se.
hi, love love love your video great information really thanks for sharing
Great video buddy, Federal needs to sponsor you, I just bought a case based on your video!!
great test. I have considered shorties even in a full sized 590 just for some increased capacity. the FPS on the box of federal shells is similar to many 2&3/4" loads, and I figure out of a 20 inch barrel vs 14 they'll probably hit that minimum 12 inch penetration. problem is I never see them locally and don't feel obligated enough to switch away from 2&3/4 00 or #1 buck shells i've trained with and know how they pattern at my needed ranges.
Fantastic thank you
What a great video on this
Thanks Good video and great products
This is what I’ve been thinking about too, glad you did all the testing! I might go with the side saddle laser but I like that strap you rigged on it.
Demonstratedconcepts.com for the strap
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 ahh cool didn’t know you had products too! Keep up the great work. Subscribed.
Whoa..I’m done searching for my HD load..thanks
Running them in a maverick 88 security with mini adaptor and houge grip. Very glad i decided to go with the 4 buck federal minis. Especially after watching this test
It would be interesting to see what Federal could do if they loaded 00 or # 1 copper plated buck, grex buffer and the Flitecontrol wad in these shorties. Now if there was a simple mod to make Rem 870s run them. Blasting new Wrangle jeans is triggering.....
If you are testing a "home defense" load at 25 yards, you either:
1) Have NO idea what you're doing.
2) Are wildly biased AGAINST short, home defense ammunition by asking waaay too much of it. or
3) You have a HUGE house to defend and should be using 3 1/2 inch magnum loads to keep your pattern tight enough in the shot sleeve, longer, to reach the other end of the house.
If you're "blown away" by their performance, you're holding the gun BACKWARDS!!!
I just bought some of the #4 buck to try out - perfect timing! I think if they just put the flight control wad on the 00 buck it would be perfect.
I think that wad may be too large for a short shell to have 6 pellets still.
What is the hand stop you are using in the Shockwave forend in this video?
I'd love to know, too.
Sir, you are using a 100' clothe tape in engineers scale. The minimum depth is 0.55' not 5.5". It is pronounced fifty five hundreds of a foot. I am a land surveyor that's why I noticed. 0.55' equals 6 and 5/8's inches. Not 5 and 1/2 inch. You can tell because your tapes foot increments only go up to 0.9' not 11inches. Fun fact of truth.
The Fed 4 buck mini is a solid round, and still recoil manageable. We at OPSol Flex Adapter created the adapter specifically for low recoil users....wives and daughters. Many write about what is the best shotgun for home defense. It's not the shotgun, per se, but the user paired with the shell. Your (my) 12 year old daughter with a Mossberg, and adapter, and Aguila or Federal mini buck rounds is how you should look at the equation of "best". Home defense is a family affair.....you may very well be away.
Sure you can have a full power shotgun for you, but they need something too.
That's excellent spread for that #4 buck
If Federal modified their flight control pellet control system to fit the shorty (and they made the pellets non-splitting), I would load nothing but shorty in my home defense shotgun. AND-I would probably add a couple mossberg shockwaves to my collection. As it stands, I like and use their shorty slugs but don't bother with the buck shot shells. I'm hoping others buy the shotshells. I'd hate to see Federal shelve the shorties, rather than tweek it a bit to get better performance, due to low sales.
Good luck finding these mini shells. I purchased my Mossberg shockwave 590 12 Gauge about a year ago and then purchased the Op Sol Flex Adapter, only to find I can't find Mini Shells anywhere..
I bought a case of the mini slugs not too long ago. You just gotta shop around online.
@@MegaAppleshit I ended up finding some at Outlaw Guns
I find them at Vance Outdoors and Natchez.
Thank you! Excellent video!
Man is that a flying Goat t-shirt? It would be great if we had a local. I have had a nightstick for about 2 years now have been running the shorty shells with one of the adapters from Texas. Great to teach younger and weaker family members to shoot it. But alas I'm the only one that loves the little Mossberg.
actually kinda the video we have been looking for!
The Smartest Man in Colorado, America, and maybe the Planet Earth!
Guaranteed
Aw, look at that cute little shotty. I'm liking what I'm seeing here. That'd be suitable for me and my wife. Maybe we can do a his 'n' hers set. I just need to raise some funds first...
If you find this impressive, you might try Federal 410 000 buck (specifically, there's nothing better) out of a governor. It's a 4 pellet 000 buck load with a flight control wad that groups very tight, even out to 25 yards. In gel they beat the 12 inches no problem.
That's a big might. Haven't checked in a while but 410 ammunition is hard to find, section is limited, and it's not cheap.
It may make an interesting video to compare the 3 ways to run minishells in a Mossberg under potential real-life conditions. How you are holding the gun (barrel/ejector port pointed down/up), how hard you are racking it (pistol grip racking is different from 3-point racking), and if you are running or crawling all impart forces on a minishell as it leaves the mag tube.
In short, how does the minishell solutions from the 590S, the OPSol Flex Adapter, and the Defender Tactical stack up against each other in simulated real home defense situations?
Obviously, if you already own one of these, you can test yourself. Like a poorly secured pistol holster flopping around, a minishell rattling around in the receiver as you are defending yourself is not desirable.
Have you tested the defender tactical adapter for taking a normal shockwave and allowing it to use all 3 cartridge lengths?
I make wax slug shorties out of cheap birdshot rounds. They have excellent accuracy, and cycle perfectly in my 500.
I was sold until the gel test. Looks like I’ll be sticking with a 12ga shotgun for home defense instead of a 12ga firearm. Thanks for the great work!
Wrong takeaway. It’s the shells tested- not the barrel length. You see identical performance to the 18 and 20 inch barrels when the same loads are used.
If you don’t like this gel, stick to 00 buck
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 Fair point.
Great job.
The fact that you were shooting in a tornado may have affected your groupings.
Glad somebody finally put some of the Federal Shorty shells in gelatin. Bought 100 rounds after I saw this video.
Where did you find them? I haven't even been able to find them online. Thank you.
@@Bearhead66 Check Midway USA. They had the self defense 00 buck that was expensive, but the #4 buck and #7 buck was just $8 per box of 10.
@mini14jac yep that is where I got my number 4 buckshot, good price to
I'm looking forward to the semi-auto version of this soon!
Not from Mossberg. Their semi system is a little different. Maybe Remington would step up to the challenge and make a TAC-13 S???
@@DeathValleyWarthog Ideally beretta 1301... but yes the tac 13 s would be lovely
@@joeld008 If you want to go that route, I have something better: Benelli M3. Conversion shotgun.
Do you have a video that explains how you mounted the vertical piece extending from the bottom of the birdshead grip?
What is the configuration you're using today, please (shotgun, shells, recoil strap, scope, etc.)? Wife and I are in 70's and are looking for a good home defense firearm. Thanks very much!
I know I've watched this video over a dozen times. It applies directly to me. I live in a 1k square foot house. The Maximum distance I could be shooting is about 5yds. I also believe that a shotgun is the superior defense weapon within its effective range. There is about 50'-75' between my house and my neighbors' houses. So overpenetration is a concern. I think the Federal shorty 15 pellet #4 buckshot is perfect for me. Especially when you consider only headshots. One shot stop. The extra ammo capacity is a bonus.
I just wonder if a vang comp barrel is worth it. At less than 5 yards has the shot even left the shot cup?
#1 buckshot seems to be perfect for self defense. Unfortunately I don't know of any mini shells that are made as such.
Great video, Mini shells are not made for 25 yd shots. For home defense distances at about 25' they are perfect. I put them through half inch plywood at 20' they blow through with no problem.
What's on the front of the firearm, on the left side? Is that a handguard? Flashlight?
just purchased The recoil strap! let's go!
Hey Rhett - I have a Mossberg 590 in .410 ga. that can be chambered in 2 and 1/2 or 3 inch .410 cartridges. It is Not a 590S model per say. Do you know if I can modify my 590 to accept those short shells? Many thanks!
My question is can you even find shorty shotshells in 410? Because if you have a regular mossberg 590 (not this s edition) you need an opsol adapter for minishells. Which is also something I don't think you'd find in 410.
@Blonde Quijote thanks for the response. I did contact the manufacturer of the opsol adapter, and they had the same response as you. They said they'd make one if the ammo producers would make a 410 shorty. Many thanks.
To my understanding Shorty's are only made in 12 gauge for sure and 20 gauge from what I've heard.
I wonder how this would work around cars (doors & windows) + gel.
Might be something for patrol officers to have in the drivers door or on the person with a good carry/retention option.
Do you have a video on the grip modification? I'm talking about the finger rest that you are resting your middle and ring finger on. Not the strap. Thank you!
Just got my 590s shockwave and am super interested to know about your accessories (especially that little nob on the bottom of your rear grip).
Check out defender tactical
Thanks for the great video content! Love what you do! The biggest problem, though, seems to be the availability of those rounds. I have not been able to find those federal 00 buck rounds anywhere.
On a separate note, which optic are you running on your shockwave and what optic do you generally recommend on 12ga?
The Holosun 507c on a low mount and the PA SLX1x are my choices at the moment.
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918Between the Holosun and the Primary Arms, do you have a favorite? I’ve always stuck with the bead sight, as I do a lot of trap shooting so I’m comfortable with bead sights. But now I want to upgrade to a good optic.
I am gearing up my Shockwave in preparation for your Bennett CO course in August. I already bought my ticket for the course and figure it’d be best to have an optic.
Wouldn't the No.1 buck be best number of pellets/depth of penetration wise?
I've been loading 12 pellets of 1b in 2 1/4" shells. I believe you're right, it seems to be the best
Great vid 👍😃✌️🇺🇸
5:10 Sold! Wife and daughter approved!
Engineer tape measure tenth of an inch....... .5 = 6" more penetration, great video.
for the al gore rhythm
Premieres in 22 hours.Too long to wait.
What, if any, additional penetration/velocity do the 4B shorty shells get from a “full-size” 18.5” Mossberg 590s?
I have a Mossberg 88 Security with 20 inch barrel and 8 shot capacity and 13 with the Federal Shorties And the defendertactical adapter that allows the Shotgun to function with the mini shells and 2 3/4 and the 3 inch shells Simultaneously and the Hogue Tamer grip.
I am Curious whether it can be shot in a Similiar Manner as you shoot the Schockwave ?
If so how about a demo ?
Thank you much
The Hogue Tamer is a Pistol grip
I use 00, slugs in this. I have no qualms with #4 0 from a 16" tube on a 590
Do you have any similar videos of proper gel tests done with the Aguila minshells? I've been looking everywhere and can't find any good ones. I'm ok with the spread on the Aguila minishells. I just want to see how far the #1 and #4 buckshot penetrates on those.
saying you’re ok with that spread is saying you are fine betting your family’s/neighbors’ lives on errant pellets not hitting them… or that you don’t care if they are hit.
This is why I haven’t bothered gel testing any other #4 buck loads or the aguilas. If I can’t guarantee I can keep ALL of my shot where I want it, I won’t use it.
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 Sir please don't make assumptions about my living situation or say that I don't care about my family members. I only have one other person living in my house and their bedroom is not in a direction that I'd be likely firing towards from the position of my bedroom doorway unless an intruder was in their room. That is unlikely however as they have an indoor bedroom lock just as I have on mine. If I heard them in a physical altercation with an intruder I would not grab any shotgun, but rather my short-barreled AR-15 pistol with a red dot.
Also in my own patterning on my Maverick 88 with a 18.5" barrel, while it does spread quite a bit, I've not had the shot spread quite as extreme as you experienced at 7 yards. In my house likely engagement distances would be more like 4 yards That being said, I actually prefer the larger spread as it means more of a chance that multiple critical organs will be hit. It also means that if my aim is not perfect under stress, that at least some of my shot will hit the target.
Currently there are absolutely ZERO good ballistic gel tests of the aguila minishells that show clearly the penetration. I only found one, but they didn't show a close up of the gel block and didn't measure the penetration. It looked to me like between 10 and 12" of penetration but I couldn't be sure.
Anyways... I was just wondering if you had any such videos. I'm not demanding you make any as I have no right to do so and I understand that gel blocks are expensive.
It would however be educational to show both the spread of Aguila buckshot on cardboard (showing why you hate it) as well as the penetration doing a proper FBI protocol gel test like you did with the Federal shorties.
That's all I'm saying. I know there's a lot of people like myself wondering the same thing.
@@wigon would be hilarious and interesting to send a barrel off to VangComp to specifically pattern with those shells.
Your reasoning on larger pattern giving greater hit probability is logical but neglects consideration that those large patterns give very little wiggle room for unexpected changes in distance or ‘hits’ slightly off center which throw errant shot- which would still be a concern for errant shot at 4yd out of the 20”, 18.5” 12” and 14” guns I’ve run them out of.
There’s still plenty of spread that happens inside the body when a tightly concentrated shot column hits a bad guy. One entrance, many exits, several inches apart. The bigger the bad guy, the greater the internal spread. The smaller the bad guy, the less likely you are to need said spread.
6 pellets 00 are 0.73 ounce.
15 pellets #4 buck is 0.7095 ounce.
#4 buck uses a tough wad like steel shot
Federal #4 buck in my cheap Stevens 320 fed well and tore the chest out of my targets. Might be good for home use in small houses
It's windy as hell out there. That's a big factor
The local store has the mini shells from both Federal and Aguila, but only the birdshot...
*GROAN*
Great Video Sir, what hand stop are you using on the OEM fore-end?
For home defense purposes, could you comment on whether there is a significant difference between the 00 and 04 buckshot as far as *stopping power* ? (please excuse the newbie question). Thank you.
There is a significant penetration difference. I want more than 12” and less than 18”. The #4 buck has less than I want- it’s right on the edge of 12” of reliable penetration with about half of the pellets making it. The 00buck has more than I want- all will penetrate most people entirely and still be a danger after exiting. If recoil is not an issue, I prefer #1 or 00 buck in a low recoil load.
Any of the defense advertised buckshot is more likely to give you a bad guy incapacitated by one shot than any pistol cartridge and arguably more than any rifle cartridge.
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 Thank you for replying and for creating this video. That's remarkable; you have so-tweaked the home defense scenarios that you're concerned about *exiting* ammo, LOL. So then, based on your response, the #4 buck isn't really ready for "prime time" I suppose, LOL. Is #1 buck readily available? Isn't there also a single-aut buck also? (#0 buck)? Your video is so thorough and scientific; maybe some day you could do another one with 0-buck or 1-buck as well? You could, in-effect, set the standard for "best practices for home defense". How's that for title? Thank you again. :)
Is that shotgun legal without some kind of special paper work, like for sn SBR?
thanks!
Do they offer a Flite Control Wad in the mini shell?
Love this concept. What are you using as a handstop?
I think its a flashlight, with the side GG&G mount from amazon
Sorry maybe dumb question. Did the tube magazine need to be modified? 🤔
No
That is sweet. I shot my first shockwave the other day. They had a pistol grip and a brace on it. With the brace collapsed all the way it was rough. But with it extended all the way it was not hitting me in the face. It looks like these shorty shells maybe the way to go.
love me some shorty shells
Seems hard to get the short shells. Any idea where to get them?
I picked up the shockwave in FDE and couple weeks back. Tonight I placed an order for Federal #4 Buc minis. Last, I will need the opsi insert. Which optic are you running and height ? Thanks for your reviews.
I don’t recommend the adapter. Mine fell out frequently.
@@demonstratedconceptsllc4918 well, I may have screwed the pooch on that one. I did not pick up the 509S model. I was not even aware of the model. I will have to stick with Federal 2 3/4 for defense. Falling out is unacceptable.
There is an adapter by Defender Tactical that is fixed & allows use of any size shell. I just got it & haven't tried it yet but it seems like a much better option
@@jgH3Tthanks for the link. I got that shell adapter and a foreend grip from them.
@jgH3T how did the defender tactical adapter work out for you?
@TaoFledermaus ... does anyone know WHY the industry standard for 12ga shorty shells is 1 3/4" ? Why not 2" ?
Good summertime load when bad guys are wearing less clothes !
10-12 pellet #1 copper plated that stayed together well would be perfect imho.
12 inches in gel is a handgun standard. I think if you're pushing out 2 magazines worth of projectiles from a 2 3/4 #4 buck shell, that's going to be adequate.
@@kurtwpg if they don’t get deep enough to get vitals, there’s little point in using them when plenty of loads that do go deep exist
Have you tried War Wolf short shells? They make several short shell loads you might like.
I’ve not found them available. Interested though
Super cool !