“Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people. Shotguns, the right load at the right range will physically remove a chunk from your opponent and throw it on the floor behind him, and you will have to get someone to come clean it up with a shovel.” -Raw Clint Thunder Ranch
I like Lucky Gunner's videos, but he and John at Active Self Protection are acting like scared Millennials raised on too much "zero tolerance" in schools. Overly paranoid about one buckshot round not hitting like a laser. A shotgun works great because it spreads and give a higher hit probability under stress. Plus, that pellet spread maximizes damage and stopping the bad guy immediately. These scare-dy cats should just buy a pistol caliber carbine or an AR instead of putting out all of this ridiculous information on using absurd Flitecontrol rounds at 10 feet away. Flitecontrol was developed to give tighter patterns for law enforcement and hunters at 30-50 yards. It was not meant for home defense at 10-20 feet where it essentially acts like a slug. Buckshot that tight is going to overpenetrate at very close range.
@@JohnB-dr8sk It's also worth noting that, depending on the context, you aren't actually legally responsible for every projectile that leaves your firearm. While it's certainly of no comfort to anyone inadvertently hit, the way felony murder works often puts the criminal liability for stray rounds on the attacker that provoked the shot in the first place. This is less true of civil liability but it's still a factor even there. Ultimately though, you can never guarantee you're actually going to hit your target anyway. They could always move unexpectedly at an inopportune time. So all the worrying about stuff like over penetration is largely misguided considering the actual way to not hit someone you don't want to is to not shot towards them in the first place. If you don't want to shoot your own child, don't gamble on your ammo not going all the way through the bad guy or not having any flyers. Instead, don't shoot straight in to your kid's bedroom wall.
@@JohnB-dr8sk I agree with the concern about buck shot acting like a slug at close range. That's not ideal. But, at the same time, I've made peace with the fact that every round I'm going to use in pretty much platform is going to go through the few layers of dry wall WHEN I miss with a pellet or a 9mm round or (God forbid) an entire 12 gauge shot. It's going to be on me to make sure that I change my angle so that isn't an issue. I can drop to a knee so any missed pellets are well over my sleeping kid's head, should it go through the wall. I can step off line so that it goes into the other wall and peppers my wife's stack of towels in the closet instead of the guest room. I have responsibilities the bad guys doesn't. And that sucks, but life sucks. I'm the master of my house and my environment. I'll do the best I can to not miss, I won't be scared of every pellet, but I will take responsibility for every pellet. It's on me to make sure that I can fail (miss) safely. And I can do a lot to control that.
12:15 "a round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in a change of behavior" If by "behavior" you mean "the persistence of life" and by "change" you mean specifically "the cessation of" then yes.
Go watch some police interactions. Sometimes it doesn't...not as fast as you would think anyways. They definitely stop and reconsider their life choices though.
For self-defense, our goal isn't to kill, it's to make the person stop doing whatever they're doing. Buckshot tends to do that whether or not the person survives the blast.
@@LuckyGunner I understand that, but unfortunately we don't have many ways of doing the first reliably that doesn't stand a significant chance of also inducing the second. I honestly wish it wasn't that way, but we don't get to make those decisions.
This is a GREAT series on buckshot and shotguns. You've effectively compressed 5 years of shotgun experience into these videos. *Well done, thank you.*
It's not really an oddity. The group of pellets in the shell is more uniform if packed in groups of 8. If the lead pellet is not plated and harder more pellets will deform...one usually more than the others. Buffered, hardened,good shot cup, plated. Expensive buckshot but patterns really well.
It is an oddity because there are 3 layers of 3 stack pellets. Why is only one row having a single fly off while the other 2 rows have their perfect group pellets
Excellent information. I have first hand experience using Rio buckshot on a home intruder many years ago, it performed very good at the distance I had to shoot ( about 25 ft) the entire load hit the intruder high in the upper chest and shoulder on his right side and he went down fast and was out of the fight without another shot being fired. The guy survived the wound but was crippled permanently and later died in prison from another inmate assaulting him.
Many interesting things here. 1 your comment has no replies after being posted for a year. 2 you have actually experienced a home invasion as well as shooting that person. 3 you survived court. I’m interested in that. Did you do any jail time? Did you have a trial? Did the intruder try to sue? What state/country are you in? Any repercussions from intruder or their friends/family?
@@coreybrady4541 when this happened I was around 12 yo. I didn't get arrested or get in any sort of trouble. I did have to go to to the man's trial and speak to the court about what had happened as a victim/witness but at the time I didn't feel much like a victim . I'm 54 yo now and I wouldn't want to have to do this again but I wouldn't hesitate if put into this situation once again. I live in a small town in the Midwest now but this happened when my family lived in reno Nevada.
And that's exactly why I will do the exact opposite of this video. The average homeowner when pulling that trigger will need all the disbursement he/she can get.
The important word is almost, always plan for it to take multiple shots and don't stop until you are sure the threat has ended, you may even miss even though you think you hit your target.
I was in the military for over 22 years and we used a 9 pellet buckshot now it's good to know that the 8 pellet is better thank you for teaching us something many of us did not know.
I think that slugs are good for boars and bears, but not for many of us when it comes to home defense. Thanks for these videos, I appreciate your discretion and knowledge. May God bless you, sir, and watch over you and your family.
I use 00 Buck but in a pinch, such as no buckshot available due to an ammo shortage, #4 Turkey load will seriously mess an attacker up within the confines of a home as well. I used to work for the local S.O. as the shift SGT in their jail. Our training Lt, who is also certified by the state to teach pistol, rifle and shotgun courses, showed me some autopsy pictures of a guy who broke into the wrong house at 3:30 am a few counties over. Homeowner had an 18" barrel model 500 loaded with #4 Winchester Turkey loads instead of buckshot because this was during the middle of the big ammo shortage a few years back and finding buckshot in our area was about as easy as finding .22 lr was for the rest of the country. First shot hit the guy in the upper right arm. Wasn't much of it left other than the pieces of skin keeping the rest from falling to the ground. Second, round hit the guy center mass which immediately resulted in his involuntary compliance to the homeowners wishes to stop firing a .22 revolver at him. Both shots were from approximately 20 ft and at that distance the #4 turkey load was nothing short of devastating. It is also of note that the perp had enough meth and other drugs going through his system to give a large horse superpowers. Which explains why he was able to ignore the destruction of his right arm and keep firing.
3 inch #4 turkey load is bad medicine for alot of stuff. Been usin it for years. I've always defaulted to 00 buck for home defense but I'd have no issues at all runnin turkey load for it any time. It's a damn good load.
and this right here is why a home defense gun should be loaded with good lethal ammo. Someone who thinks ill just rubber buckshot, or baton round or rock salt the bad guy into compliance are in for a rude awakening if it turns out they are faced with someone out of their mind on meth or other drugs.
"a single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in a change of behavior' might be the best sentence in both episodes. A target dropping to the ground while his 2 or 3 hommies defecate themselves is certainly a change in behavior.
Absolutely the best video I've seen on the topic. Outstanding job at presenting pertinent information that almost anyone with or without firearms training can comprehend. I love the no nonsense, cut straight to the chase approach on your presentation. Great job and thank you for this top notch content.
I subbed right after you guys put out the OG Beretta 1301 content and have been impressed at your quality videos ever since. I'm one of the few members of my department that still carry both a shotgun and patrol rifle on duty and absolutely love to shoot shotgun. I truly believe that aside from taking a course, the best shotgun training is to browse the TH-cam's for a bootleg "Art Of The Dynamic Shotgun" and get a handful of dummy shells. Another often overlooked advantage to me is the ability to administrative reload without losing the ammo already loaded. A pistol or typical modern rifle require you to drop the box magazine to insert a new one.
I own that set of DVDs and love them. Watch them all the time. The training never gets old, unlike the actors. I too am issued a rifle and shotgun at work. Prefer the shotgun for “felony stop” distances. We load Federal FliteControl 9 pellet. I feel pretty well armed with that thing. In fact, one sits under my bed right now. 😎👍
Another good video Sir! I think you are the first person to actually talk about the "quirks" of buckshot (it's response to chokes, the 9th pellet flier, and the difference between buffered and unbuffered shot) on TH-cam. I've seen a fair amount of stuff about Birdshot but not Buckshot.
Added to my list of keeper quotes: "A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior. " Thanks for that!
To add to your rifle/carbine vs shotgun notes: In the aftermath of a self-defense shooting, having used grandpappy's 12ga pump instead of a big scary black rifle might win you some sympathy points in a jury trial if you live in a place where your freedom might come down to that.
If you feel that’s relevant in your geopolitical area, and you’re fine with potentially handicapping yourself to potentially appease others opinions, then go for it.
@@meanman6992 shotguns are not a handicap. I've seen animals hit with rifles up to 300win mags and 12ga slugs do much more damage. Buckshot is it's own thing and is hard to compare to rifles. More holes = faster put downs. I can land shots on paper at 100 yards with the bead sight. I also find shotguns faster to aim and easy to swing on moving targets. There's a reason many people choose to use shotguns when expecting fast moving targets in close. It's like comparing fly fishing to spin fishing. I know I'm talking about hunting but deer are human size.
@@terrencewrigley6024 odd that you say that. Anecdotally, I’ve never had any brand of hollowpoint slugs consistently expand in a breathing target. Even ones that do well in gel tests. On the other hand, I’ve never had .300 blackout fail to expand
For home defense it all comes down to were you live, which Firearm works the best. You must always consider over penetration. You should fully understand the laws and legal rights you have. There's one certainty that you must follow, don't wound a home invader. You must terminate the threat or threats as this invader will turn the tables on your in the courtroom. Hopefully the invader bleeds out prior to Medical attention. Make sure your a member of the USCCA or equivalent . Call your Attorney and never speak to Law Enforcement. Thanks Lucky Gunner for a great educational video.
Great channel. Today's topic was probably one of my favorites. I use a shockwave in 20 gauge... Sleeps in bed with me... Various other calibers stashed between my bedroom and the front door. 👍
I can tell you that from my experience, with my shotgun, the Flight Control ammo patterns slightly best with Improved Cylinder(.720), instead of Cylinder(.730). I think this slight restriction keeps the shot cup inline with my point of aim a little better, without stripping it, which would happen with too much choke restriction. As for standard buckshot loads... My shotty patterns the best using an Improved Modified(.705), but a Full(.700) comes in close second. #4 buckshot patterns best using a .680, or a .690 choke. You provided some excellent info in these 2 videos, regarding buckshot. Maybe you dispelled a few "myths". Love your channel.
An ounce and an eighth or ounce and a quarter at 1,200 FPS or thereabouts puts a lot more energy into the BG than a 230 gr.45 ACP round. To top it off, a shoulder fired weapon is easier to operate under stress at close quarters. That’s not to say you shouldn’t keep your handgun close by if you are proficient with it, but a load of buckshot properly placed is more likely to bring the confrontation to an end. As always, good information. Thank you!
Don't mean to but in, however I just want to say that I bought a 20 gauge shockwave... I used to keep my 40 under my pillow, but I'm getting older now, and I know the shockwave takes a lot of the guesswork out of the situation... 2 years ago it was under $300. Today I have seen them for sale for over $700.... of course I don't keep the shockwave under my pillow, she sleeps between me and my wife now. LOL. Very good thread. Thank you
i don't usually post comments but i watch and read virtually all your stuff( couldnt think of a better word , no offense intended. ). very professional, and informative. thanks guys. keep up the good work.
So glad I found this channel. With so many "first time" buyers equipping shotguns for home defense due to the peaceful protests, without any experience with shooting shotguns, I hope they find this video. I really like that you cover both ammunition types and chokes. I am curious what your thoughts are on the Olin Mfr "military" 9-pellet 00 rounds as compared to those covered in the 2 videos. The discussion about chokes likely saved me some cash; which I'll gladly pay forward at your web store.
I like that even though you have 700+ hours of training, you remain humble and encourage viewers to question. I would venture to guess that 95% of the people watching this content have less than 25 hours of actual training.
I really liked this series. I have quite a lot of experience with handgun and riffle but know next to nothing about shotguns. I learned a lot and wanted to thank you 👍
Sorry, Chris - I should have also mentioned that I love your channel. You are very professional and I always find something useful in your teaching. Keep up the great work.
I am a new shotgun owner, which I bought with the purpose of farming protection and hunting. I am happy to find this channel as I am learning so much.My shotgun is the Turkey made Armalegant pump action. Still familiarizing with it though.
I like to call that 9th flyer the "crazy ivan" though thats mainly talking about boxes of russian steel case ammo, each box comes with a single crazy ivan flyer round.
Federal Premium was the most consistent of all we tested. Since our armed encounters tended to be at distance tight, consistent patterns served us best. However, for urban environments pattern spread can be very beneficial, especially if an assailant is moving. If a really tight pattern is desired then one should choose a rifled slug.
I think that was the best explanation of why a shotgun is great for home defense that I've ever heard and I've watched tons of videos on the subject. I could use any of the weapons described in this video for home defense but I use a shotgun. It just seemed like the best choice intuitively but it makes much more sense logically based on this video. Thank you!
Great video and channel. It's always interesting for people outside the US to see how having drywall as construction material comes into play. Here in Perú, for instance, you go from shanties made of cardboard or reed mats to brick when you leave all but the most destitute of poverty.
Hi Chris. Just wanted to complement you on these 2 videos. As a guy with many more hours of shotgun training than the 100 you have been exposed to, I have to say I agree with everything you said. There's a lot of YT videos out there and most propagate a number of well known and not so well known shotgun myths. It's nice to see someone properly articulate the reasons why in the right hands a shotgun is the superior choice for HD.
I seem to remember someone doing a demonstration with shotguns at various distances. When the pellets didn't spread at all before hitting the target, they seemed to penetrate completely and be more of a danger of over-penetration. I think I'd prefer a spread of about three inches when my pellets hit the target. Inside a home, I don't think I need anything special to get that spread. The Federal low recoil loads with the FlyteControl wads are nice rounds though. If I can get them cheaply enough, I like them.
This is correct. If the pellets don't spread at all, they act more like a slug upon impact. But it only takes a spread of a few inches to make them act like individual projectiles rather than one large mass.
@Travis Thacker "Other then that they are made for Police use for ease of training and costs." Huh, what? Are you trying to say the Flitecontrol buckshot is cheaper than the normal stuff? No. no no no.
I bought a Mossberg Shock Wave for a near blind friend. It patterned as well or better than longer barreled/choked guns. Due to her visual impairement, I had to find the load with the most spread. That was Winchester military load overruns with 9 pellets. Rio 00 was a close second. Wow be into whoever tries to break into her house.
Oh my gosh, can see it now... *Noise in the night wakes her up* "Who's there? I'm warning you, I'm armed!" Cue the neighborhood cat staring at her with a blank look on its face, only to nearly be exploded by #00 buckshot and running all the way into the next county, then the police show up, expecting a firefight, and then try explaining to her she wasn't being robbed, it was probably just an animal. Then, the Liberals collectively lose their minds because a single pellet slightly grazed the bush bordering her neighbor's house.
I have an NFA registered Benelli Super Nova Tactical with a 14.5in barrel. I use Honady Low Recoil Tap in it with good results. At 45 feet, it patterns just over 5-1/4 inches. I also chronograph that load out of the shorter barrel. It leaves the barrel at 933 fps.
I’ve had weird experiences with federal flight control, i always pick out different ammo to pattern to see how I like different loads for home defense and federal flight control 9 pellet 00buck doesn’t pattern that well in my gun, it always gives 2 flyers (Usually within an inch of each other) 5” away from the single hole where the wad and 7 pellets went through at 8yards (longest possible shot in my house) however I’ve heard of people getting single holes on paper at up to 15 yards. My new defensive load is federal 2 3/4” 12pellet 00buck because it consistently put all pellets with in a 5” circle at 8 yards and if I’m going to have the same spread then might as well go with the extra pellets with more evenly spread pellets throughout the pattern. Just goes to show that you always need to pattern your own gun My shotgun is cyl bore 18.5” rem 870
Great job....as always. Thanks for the quality ammo I bought from you last week: good price & only took 3 days over the weekend. Stay healthy everyone!
I understand the main objective is to "Stop the threat" and not necessarily to kill. However, I believe it may depend on the local laws of where you live. The survival of a physical threat in your home may become a financial threat in the courtroom.
It's often easier to kill someone than stop them right there, if you kill them and they don't know they are dead (fatal wound) then they kill you right back it didn't do you any good. Most fatal wounds do not instantly incapacitate the attacker that is why you don't just want to kill them you want to stop them from being able to kill or injure you or other innocent people whether it kills them or not that is irrelevant. You may get lucky and stop them or make them leave with just pain or fear alone but you can never count on that that is why lower powered guns such as the .22LR and .25 ACP are poor choices for self defense.
Very good points, and I currently own two high-quality 12-gauge pump shotguns. However, my Colt M4 with green-tip ammo is what I prefer for all my self-defense needs with a long gun, be they in my home, vehicle, or community.
Brilliant, I consider your videos among the very best produced by anyone. So thank you again, and I look forward to the next. I have never shot a shotgun, but look forward to it some day soon. I’m 64 and coming to shooting late in life, but I’m feeling as though it’s what our world now demands. I enjoyed your wry sense of humor vis-a-vis the change in behavior a buckshot round will produce. All my best.
Man, I got us a great job on this video. My wife and I have discussed at length shotguns for home defense. And our house pistols are first. We have a lot of children and may need to open doors and Crowell are children. Also, our pistols have attached flashlights and at the moment our long gun situation does not. In our house grabbing a carbine is not out of the question for home defense situation. If we are reaching for a 12 gauge shotgun we are encountering a large threat, or a very determined foe. One thing I think should be mentioned I never keep the chamber loaded on any shotgun I have dropped them and seen them discharge about doing it it's not safe. The first round in my pipe is always a slug. Buy Mossberg 535 with an 18-inch barrel is what I keep for home defense it is also my hunting shotgun. Every round after the slug 3 1/2 inch double ought buck. If I step out my front door I have two acres of property so long range becomes an issue. But more realistically I might be shooting at an animal that is moving such as a large predator or a pack of coyotes.
Outstanding video, as well as part 1. I feel a 12 gauge is by long and far the best home defense weapon of choice for not all but most homeowners, and you've explained why far more informative than I ever could have.
Why not just use regular bird shot for in the house? Close range should keep it pretty tight and if one gets loose it wouldn’t have much energy once it hits a wall or something. Serious question.
I wouldn't mind seeing some testing on slugs. Particularly the higher velocity, softer lead, foster slugs. In my experiences when shooting slugs like Remington Sluggers, they seem to fragment fast & dump their energy pretty fast as well. That might not keep harmful projectiles from penetration interior walls inside your home but I couldn't imagine much leaving the outer walls of your home & reaching anything outside, including neighbors homes. If you live alone or your position in house has any relevance to the direction of your intended shots, this could def be a possibility. Weather you plan on using a shotgun, carbine or pistol, you most likely wouldn't be shooting any of them in a direction that could be unsafe to those others living/ sleeping in your home. No matter the weapon, we should always be target aware & conscious of what is behind it, right? So bc of their predictability & effectiveness, maybe slug tests? Just a thought... 🤔 Thanks for the awesome content guys 👍 and keep it up!
TheReindeer TheRabbitTheBat this past summer there was a man shot in the leg inside his own home. Was a .12 gauge slug from a wildlife officer trying to kill a black bear in Fort Simpson, Northwest Territories, Canada.
Hitchcock 45 shot Remington 1 oz. slugs at a 1" or maybe 1 1/2" pressboard table top at 230 yards. Those slugs bored a nice big ol' hole in that wood. Open sights as well. I was very surprised.
If you look around youtube, there's an old series called "The Box Of Truth". They did a lot of drywall-penetration testing on various ammo... it was always eye-opening.
From the 1st time I’ve watched chris he’s always been very straight forward and level headed in his direction the way he presents all the info about guns,,,,😊😊😊
Great video! Home defense and self-defense shootings are often a wee bit different than police shootings in that the predator, like most predators in any species, usually is not willing to invest much time in an attack that is going sideways. While buckshot doesn't always immediately "stop" someone willing to shoot it out with the police (different mindset than a predator as the predator is then being preyed upon), shooting an intruder or assailant is much more likely to cause them to decide to go elsewhere forthwith. Certainly this isn't 100%, so having more rounds ready to go is essential and prudent, but generally, once the lead starts flying, most predators decide to break off and flee. If the fall dead on your front lawn or are caught later in the local ER, either way, you and your family are safe. Once again, I'm a huge fan of the Federal Flite-Control wads and thanks for this and all your videos!
I was really impressed when I patterned my Mossberg 500 SP with the Federal flight control...at 25 good paces, I had to walk up and do a double look, basically a fist sized hole. I thought I missed...my practice Spartans were at 8". But still the Spartans would do well within my abode too...but yeah, love the boomstick
This has been an awesome series. I would love to see a lever action caliber comparison, with your regular testing protocol on gel, fps, energy. The data that exists is scattered and poorly collected, and I'd love to see luckygunners take on .357 vs .44 v 45-70 vs 30-30.
The idea is that I get the Vang Comp service once, and no matter where I go I can find buckshot. But I won't have to search for special buckshot. It's not a matter of expense, it's a matter of supply.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz yeah but now your shot gun can only shoot like they tuned it. i want to be able to do more than one shot pattern with mine for different situations.
@@bigsean2473 okay...then *dont* get your gun Van Comp'd. It's an option, not a requirement. I personally have a M590A1 with a Accu-Choked brrl, I dont want my gun to be back-bored (I presume thats what vang comp does, thats what the ol timers do), but some people do.
Good point on choke tubes. I have found over the years that an IC choke tube on my 20" 870 helps the patterns a bit, and i also get good slug accuracy. Modified didn't make any more difference, and full choke patterns seemed a little larger. I stuck with the IC because you don't want much constriction with slugs, nor do you want lead shaving off in the choke tube. The Flitecontrol is very effective. I tested it for my former agency (at my expense) 10 or 12 yrs ago. It is almost astounding from a cylinder bore out to 15 yds, and the pattern is very usable to 25 yards or farther. Great point on the 8 pellet patterns- those were some amazing patterns you had. Lots of hurt when the pellets are close together.
I agree, the 20 guage is the home defense weapon I encourage people to use for home defense. Charles Daly semi will suffice, cheap protection for home use only.
Good discussion and information in both videos. As a longtime Subscriber, I agree with an earlier comment about being bewildered as to why this channel doesn't have well over a million subscribers. I have a Remington A5 built in 1908 which after 1911 became known as the Model 11. It is in very good condition and serves as a very reliable coyote killer with #2 buckshot out to near 35 yards.
It's gross how underrated this channel is. Just give in a little and make the popular vids that feed off the hype to get more subscribers and then go back to the good and honest content we've been seeing.
2:04 those looke exactly like HDPE pellets. I'm in plastic manufacturing, we use them for purging the machines of materials in between runs. The stuff is cheap for our use, but makes perfect sense for someone like Remington that is buying gaylords of the stuff at a time.
I have come up with a method of making my own special double ought (00) buckshot that when shot out of a 12 gauge shotgun with a cylinder bore every pellet is almost equidistant from each other when shot at 60 feet and the spread is almost always a 5-6 inch spread. At 100 ft. shooting the same load the spread stays equidistant from each pellet and the spread has opened up to just 8-10 inches every shot. I never buy any commercial buckshot any more and I also make my own slugs that are as good or better than anything you can find being sold today. I came by this method quite a few years ago after one of my Uncles showed me how he did it. It is a combination of some of what he did and an extra little thing that I added. I also have a method of taking off the shelf bird shot of any manufacturer and converting any shotshell with any shot size and turning cheap ammo into slugs that perform just as well or maybe even a little better than expensive slug ammunition you buy 5 at a time. I am thinking about trying to patent this method. I believe it would radically change the way shotguns are used.
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![Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 1]](/img/tr.png)
“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Now that’s a quote I can get behind! Love it! 😂
Exactly
EXACTLY
An end of all behavior.
“Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people. Shotguns, the right load at the right range will physically remove a chunk from your opponent and throw it on the floor behind him, and you will have to get someone to come clean it up with a shovel.”
-Raw Clint
Thunder Ranch
Best comment on the entire internet
Can we all please give Lucky Gunner some kind of award for the work they do? The info is unbiased, clear, concise, and relevant.
Buy from them?
I like Lucky Gunner's videos, but he and John at Active Self Protection are acting like scared Millennials raised on too much "zero tolerance" in schools. Overly paranoid about one buckshot round not hitting like a laser. A shotgun works great because it spreads and give a higher hit probability under stress. Plus, that pellet spread maximizes damage and stopping the bad guy immediately. These scare-dy cats should just buy a pistol caliber carbine or an AR instead of putting out all of this ridiculous information on using absurd Flitecontrol rounds at 10 feet away. Flitecontrol was developed to give tighter patterns for law enforcement and hunters at 30-50 yards. It was not meant for home defense at 10-20 feet where it essentially acts like a slug. Buckshot that tight is going to overpenetrate at very close range.
Great informative video great
@@JohnB-dr8sk It's also worth noting that, depending on the context, you aren't actually legally responsible for every projectile that leaves your firearm. While it's certainly of no comfort to anyone inadvertently hit, the way felony murder works often puts the criminal liability for stray rounds on the attacker that provoked the shot in the first place. This is less true of civil liability but it's still a factor even there.
Ultimately though, you can never guarantee you're actually going to hit your target anyway. They could always move unexpectedly at an inopportune time. So all the worrying about stuff like over penetration is largely misguided considering the actual way to not hit someone you don't want to is to not shot towards them in the first place. If you don't want to shoot your own child, don't gamble on your ammo not going all the way through the bad guy or not having any flyers. Instead, don't shoot straight in to your kid's bedroom wall.
@@JohnB-dr8sk I agree with the concern about buck shot acting like a slug at close range. That's not ideal. But, at the same time, I've made peace with the fact that every round I'm going to use in pretty much platform is going to go through the few layers of dry wall WHEN I miss with a pellet or a 9mm round or (God forbid) an entire 12 gauge shot. It's going to be on me to make sure that I change my angle so that isn't an issue. I can drop to a knee so any missed pellets are well over my sleeping kid's head, should it go through the wall. I can step off line so that it goes into the other wall and peppers my wife's stack of towels in the closet instead of the guest room.
I have responsibilities the bad guys doesn't. And that sucks, but life sucks. I'm the master of my house and my environment. I'll do the best I can to not miss, I won't be scared of every pellet, but I will take responsibility for every pellet. It's on me to make sure that I can fail (miss) safely. And I can do a lot to control that.
12:15 "a round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in a change of behavior"
If by "behavior" you mean "the persistence of life" and by "change" you mean specifically "the cessation of" then yes.
I laughed to myself when he said that, because I was thinking this exact thing. I think that was his point without being so blunt about it.
Go watch some police interactions. Sometimes it doesn't...not as fast as you would think anyways. They definitely stop and reconsider their life choices though.
That’s also like having a “significant emotional event”.
For self-defense, our goal isn't to kill, it's to make the person stop doing whatever they're doing. Buckshot tends to do that whether or not the person survives the blast.
@@LuckyGunner I understand that, but unfortunately we don't have many ways of doing the first reliably that doesn't stand a significant chance of also inducing the second. I honestly wish it wasn't that way, but we don't get to make those decisions.
How this channel isn’t over 1M yet is mind boggling - some of the best, most well presented content out there.
I absolutely agree !!!
An unfortunate causality of the All mighty Algorithm. May he have mercy on us all.
Consider ourselves lucky.
He is one of the sharpest tacks out there!
No big explosions or gold platted 1911
This is a GREAT series on buckshot and shotguns. You've effectively compressed 5 years of shotgun experience into these videos. *Well done, thank you.*
Paul Harrell recently referred to your 9th pellet flier and, in addition to complimenting you, agreed with you on the oddity of this phenomenon.
Paul harrel is simply the best
It's not really an oddity. The group of pellets in the shell is more uniform if packed in groups of 8. If the lead pellet is not plated and harder more pellets will deform...one usually more than the others. Buffered, hardened,good shot cup, plated. Expensive buckshot but patterns really well.
It is an oddity because there are 3 layers of 3 stack pellets. Why is only one row having a single fly off while the other 2 rows have their perfect group pellets
How about aiming at the abdomen? It should be effective and change the angle of any overpenatrion toward the ground?
You've taught me so much about shotgun ammunition in two videos. Thank you for mentioning the 9th pellet flyer
Excellent information. I have first hand experience using Rio buckshot on a home intruder many years ago, it performed very good at the distance I had to shoot ( about 25 ft) the entire load hit the intruder high in the upper chest and shoulder on his right side and he went down fast and was out of the fight without another shot being fired. The guy survived the wound but was crippled permanently and later died in prison from another inmate assaulting him.
Many interesting things here. 1 your comment has no replies after being posted for a year. 2 you have actually experienced a home invasion as well as shooting that person. 3 you survived court. I’m interested in that. Did you do any jail time? Did you have a trial? Did the intruder try to sue? What state/country are you in? Any repercussions from intruder or their friends/family?
@@coreybrady4541 when this happened I was around 12 yo. I didn't get arrested or get in any sort of trouble. I did have to go to to the man's trial and speak to the court about what had happened as a victim/witness but at the time I didn't feel much like a victim . I'm 54 yo now and I wouldn't want to have to do this again but I wouldn't hesitate if put into this situation once again. I live in a small town in the Midwest now but this happened when my family lived in reno Nevada.
Shotguns.
Most useful firearm ever made.
Hunt anything that runs or flies with the variety if ammo available.
Darn, had to watch this twice. Been shooting for 50 years, and LG taught me more about shotgun ammo than I knew. Thank you, Lucky G........!
"A single round of buckshot to the torso, almost always results in an immediate change of behavior." Lol, amen.
And that's exactly why I will do the exact opposite of this video. The average homeowner when pulling that trigger will need all the disbursement he/she can get.
It’s called TERMINAL RESPONSIBILITY! They used to teach it at a remedial level. Not so much anymore but it’s nice to see you teaching it.
"A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior." Truer words were never spoken.
"A quick death stops most attackers almost immediately." - My German instructor 🤣
The important word is almost, always plan for it to take multiple shots and don't stop until you are sure the threat has ended, you may even miss even though you think you hit your target.
1st shot stops the life threat...
2nd shot stops the legal threat... 😒
I was in the military for over 22 years and we used a 9 pellet buckshot now it's good to know that the 8 pellet is better thank you for teaching us something many of us did not know.
I think that slugs are good for boars and bears, but not for many of us when it comes to home defense. Thanks for these videos, I appreciate your discretion and knowledge. May God bless you, sir, and watch over you and your family.
For a guy that looks like a craft brewer from Portland, Oregon, Chris really knows his way around firearms. Great tutorials.
I use 00 Buck but in a pinch, such as no buckshot available due to an ammo shortage, #4 Turkey load will seriously mess an attacker up within the confines of a home as well. I used to work for the local S.O. as the shift SGT in their jail. Our training Lt, who is also certified by the state to teach pistol, rifle and shotgun courses, showed me some autopsy pictures of a guy who broke into the wrong house at 3:30 am a few counties over. Homeowner had an 18" barrel model 500 loaded with #4 Winchester Turkey loads instead of buckshot because this was during the middle of the big ammo shortage a few years back and finding buckshot in our area was about as easy as finding .22 lr was for the rest of the country. First shot hit the guy in the upper right arm. Wasn't much of it left other than the pieces of skin keeping the rest from falling to the ground. Second, round hit the guy center mass which immediately resulted in his involuntary compliance to the homeowners wishes to stop firing a .22 revolver at him. Both shots were from approximately 20 ft and at that distance the #4 turkey load was nothing short of devastating. It is also of note that the perp had enough meth and other drugs going through his system to give a large horse superpowers. Which explains why he was able to ignore the destruction of his right arm and keep firing.
3 inch #4 turkey load is bad medicine for alot of stuff. Been usin it for years. I've always defaulted to 00 buck for home defense but I'd have no issues at all runnin turkey load for it any time. It's a damn good load.
and this right here is why a home defense gun should be loaded with good lethal ammo. Someone who thinks ill just rubber buckshot, or baton round or rock salt the bad guy into compliance are in for a rude awakening if it turns out they are faced with someone out of their mind on meth or other drugs.
And it’s appropriate using turkey loads for a turkey.
"a single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in a change of behavior' might be the best sentence in both episodes. A target dropping to the ground while his 2 or 3 hommies defecate themselves is certainly a change in behavior.
It has the same energy as the chieftain saying being hit by a tank shell even if it doesn't penetrate is a significant emotional event.
Absolutely the best video I've seen on the topic. Outstanding job at presenting pertinent information that almost anyone with or without firearms training can comprehend. I love the no nonsense, cut straight to the chase approach on your presentation. Great job and thank you for this top notch content.
love the versatility of a shotgun. nice to have the ability to switch from buckshot to a slug for a longer shot
I subbed right after you guys put out the OG Beretta 1301 content and have been impressed at your quality videos ever since.
I'm one of the few members of my department that still carry both a shotgun and patrol rifle on duty and absolutely love to shoot shotgun.
I truly believe that aside from taking a course, the best shotgun training is to browse the TH-cam's for a bootleg "Art Of The Dynamic Shotgun" and get a handful of dummy shells.
Another often overlooked advantage to me is the ability to administrative reload without losing the ammo already loaded. A pistol or typical modern rifle require you to drop the box magazine to insert a new one.
I own that set of DVDs and love them. Watch them all the time. The training never gets old, unlike the actors. I too am issued a rifle and shotgun at work. Prefer the shotgun for “felony stop” distances. We load Federal FliteControl 9 pellet. I feel pretty well armed with that thing. In fact, one sits under my bed right now. 😎👍
Another good video Sir!
I think you are the first person to actually talk about the "quirks" of buckshot (it's response to chokes, the 9th pellet flier, and the difference between buffered and unbuffered shot) on TH-cam. I've seen a fair amount of stuff about Birdshot but not Buckshot.
@Tzuede Off the Cuff A lot of semiautos won't cycle birdshot. You're not alone.
Added to my list of keeper quotes: "A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior. " Thanks for that!
Neutralizing the threat 8 - 00 Buck at a time. Thank you Chris for sharing.
008 ... it's even a bit better than 007
To add to your rifle/carbine vs shotgun notes: In the aftermath of a self-defense shooting, having used grandpappy's 12ga pump instead of a big scary black rifle might win you some sympathy points in a jury trial if you live in a place where your freedom might come down to that.
If you feel that’s relevant in your geopolitical area, and you’re fine with potentially handicapping yourself to potentially appease others opinions, then go for it.
@@meanman6992 A shotgun is one of the best long arm you can use in a building. Slugs drops guys, even with armor on
@@meanman6992 shotguns are not a handicap. I've seen animals hit with rifles up to 300win mags and 12ga slugs do much more damage. Buckshot is it's own thing and is hard to compare to rifles. More holes = faster put downs. I can land shots on paper at 100 yards with the bead sight. I also find shotguns faster to aim and easy to swing on moving targets. There's a reason many people choose to use shotguns when expecting fast moving targets in close. It's like comparing fly fishing to spin fishing. I know I'm talking about hunting but deer are human size.
@@terrencewrigley6024 odd that you say that. Anecdotally, I’ve never had any brand of hollowpoint slugs consistently expand in a breathing target. Even ones that do well in gel tests. On the other hand, I’ve never had .300 blackout fail to expand
For home defense it all comes down to were you live, which Firearm works the best. You must always consider over penetration.
You should fully understand the laws and legal rights you have. There's one certainty that you must follow, don't wound a home invader. You must terminate the threat or threats as this invader will turn the tables on your in the courtroom. Hopefully the invader bleeds out prior to Medical attention. Make sure your a member of the USCCA or equivalent . Call your Attorney and never speak to Law Enforcement. Thanks Lucky Gunner for a great educational video.
Great channel. Today's topic was probably one of my favorites. I use a shockwave in 20 gauge... Sleeps in bed with me...
Various other calibers stashed between my bedroom and the front door.
👍
I can tell you that from my experience, with my shotgun, the Flight Control ammo patterns slightly best with Improved Cylinder(.720), instead of Cylinder(.730). I think this slight restriction keeps the shot cup inline with my point of aim a little better, without stripping it, which would happen with too much choke restriction. As for standard buckshot loads... My shotty patterns the best using an Improved Modified(.705), but a Full(.700) comes in close second. #4 buckshot patterns best using a .680, or a .690 choke. You provided some excellent info in these 2 videos, regarding buckshot. Maybe you dispelled a few "myths". Love your channel.
Great information to know especially about 9 vs 8 buckshot pellets and effects. Thanks for sharing this!
An ounce and an eighth or ounce and a quarter at 1,200 FPS or thereabouts puts a lot more energy into the BG than a 230 gr.45 ACP round. To top it off, a shoulder fired weapon is easier to operate under stress at close quarters.
That’s not to say you shouldn’t keep your handgun close by if you are proficient with it, but a load of buckshot properly placed is more likely to bring the confrontation to an end.
As always, good information. Thank you!
Don't mean to but in, however I just want to say that I bought a 20 gauge shockwave... I used to keep my 40 under my pillow, but I'm getting older now, and I know the shockwave takes a lot of the guesswork out of the situation... 2 years ago it was under $300. Today I have seen them for sale for over $700....
of course I don't keep the shockwave under my pillow, she sleeps between me and my wife now. LOL.
Very good thread. Thank you
i don't usually post comments but i watch and read virtually all your stuff( couldnt think of a better word , no offense intended. ). very professional, and informative. thanks guys. keep up the good work.
So glad I found this channel. With so many "first time" buyers equipping shotguns for home defense due to the peaceful protests, without any experience with shooting shotguns, I hope they find this video. I really like that you cover both ammunition types and chokes. I am curious what your thoughts are on the Olin Mfr "military" 9-pellet 00 rounds as compared to those covered in the 2 videos. The discussion about chokes likely saved me some cash; which I'll gladly pay forward at your web store.
I like that even though you have 700+ hours of training, you remain humble and encourage viewers to question.
I would venture to guess that 95% of the people watching this content have less than 25 hours of actual training.
I really liked this series. I have quite a lot of experience with handgun and riffle but know next to nothing about shotguns. I learned a lot and wanted to thank you 👍
Sorry, Chris - I should have also mentioned that I love your channel. You are very professional and I always find something useful in your teaching. Keep up the great work.
Solid, logical explanations and reasoning as usual. Thank you, glad I found this channel
This Guy knows what he is talking about It . very clean explanation no mumbling like many others straight to the point well done .
"One shot of 00 Buck will likely cause a change of behavior.." 😆 love it!! I'm gonna write that one down!
I am a new shotgun owner, which I bought with the purpose of farming protection and hunting. I am happy to find this channel as I am learning so much.My shotgun is the Turkey made Armalegant pump action. Still familiarizing with it though.
I like to call that 9th flyer the "crazy ivan" though thats mainly talking about boxes of russian steel case ammo, each box comes with a single crazy ivan flyer round.
The lucky throat shot.
"The bullet is foolish, the bayonet wise."
Federal Premium was the most consistent of all we tested. Since our armed encounters tended to be at distance tight, consistent patterns served us best. However, for urban environments pattern spread can be very beneficial, especially if an assailant is moving. If a really tight pattern is desired then one should choose a rifled slug.
As always, the information is presented in a concise, logical, and easy to understand matter. Great job Chris.
I think that was the best explanation of why a shotgun is great for home defense that I've ever heard and I've watched tons of videos on the subject. I could use any of the weapons described in this video for home defense but I use a shotgun. It just seemed like the best choice intuitively but it makes much more sense logically based on this video. Thank you!
First time seeing this Chanel and subscribed first minute I love the talk
Once again, Ithank you for your comprehensive review. Your information is clearly and completely stated without hesitation. Again, thank you!
Anyone ever shot a 12ga in a house with no ear protection?? Hello can you hear me?
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I'd rather shoot a 12 gauge indoors than an AR.
@@LuckyGunner
Roger that.
+1
With a muzzle brake!
No, but I've had a TON of them go off right next to my head in the duck blind. People worry way too much about shooting inside houses.
This is by far one of the best channels for honest gun talk that doesn't drag politics into it
Great video and channel.
It's always interesting for people outside the US to see how having drywall as construction material comes into play. Here in Perú, for instance, you go from shanties made of cardboard or reed mats to brick when you leave all but the most destitute of poverty.
Hi Chris. Just wanted to complement you on these 2 videos. As a guy with many more hours of shotgun training than the 100 you have been exposed to, I have to say I agree with everything you said. There's a lot of YT videos out there and most propagate a number of well known and not so well known shotgun myths. It's nice to see someone properly articulate the reasons why in the right hands a shotgun is the superior choice for HD.
Absolutely fantastic video. I can’t believe I only just found this channel. Instant subscribe. 👍🏼
I really enjoyed this dual video series. Very informative and you have changed my mind-set on tight patterns vs wider patterns. Thanks.
I seem to remember someone doing a demonstration with shotguns at various distances. When the pellets didn't spread at all before hitting the target, they seemed to penetrate completely and be more of a danger of over-penetration. I think I'd prefer a spread of about three inches when my pellets hit the target. Inside a home, I don't think I need anything special to get that spread. The Federal low recoil loads with the FlyteControl wads are nice rounds though. If I can get them cheaply enough, I like them.
This is correct. If the pellets don't spread at all, they act more like a slug upon impact. But it only takes a spread of a few inches to make them act like individual projectiles rather than one large mass.
@@JaronActual Thanks!
Yep, the birdshot wax slugs shown by Taofledermaus demonstrate the effect of combined mass fairly well.
I doubt this. They're going to spread rapidly after impact for the same reason rifle bullets like to tumble.
@Travis Thacker "Other then that they are made for Police use for ease of training and costs."
Huh, what? Are you trying to say the Flitecontrol buckshot is cheaper than the normal stuff? No. no no no.
I bought a Mossberg Shock Wave for a near blind friend. It patterned as well or better than longer barreled/choked guns. Due to her visual impairement, I had to find the load with the most spread. That was Winchester military load overruns with 9 pellets. Rio 00 was a close second. Wow be into whoever tries to break into her house.
Oh my gosh, can see it now...
*Noise in the night wakes her up*
"Who's there? I'm warning you, I'm armed!"
Cue the neighborhood cat staring at her with a blank look on its face, only to nearly be exploded by #00 buckshot and running all the way into the next county, then the police show up, expecting a firefight, and then try explaining to her she wasn't being robbed, it was probably just an animal. Then, the Liberals collectively lose their minds because a single pellet slightly grazed the bush bordering her neighbor's house.
To paraphrase James Yeager "shotgun fights usually don't last very long".
Because if someone isn't dead, they're out of ammo! 😂
Best gun guy on TH-cam. Thoughtful, mature, and evidence-based.
Flight control is when I keep the wings straight and level....opps, wrong channel.
The Flying Backpack you don’t wanna do any California landings!! 🚁 💨💨
Lol well I also subscribe to many flight channels so all good here.
The Flying Backpack - Like "Gun Control" is keeping your Gun on Target!
@Green Giant ...really? im not saying you're wrong. I'm saying you didn't have to hit the REPLY button. just saying...
I have an NFA registered Benelli Super Nova Tactical with a 14.5in barrel. I use Honady Low Recoil Tap in it with good results. At 45 feet, it patterns just over 5-1/4 inches. I also chronograph that load out of the shorter barrel. It leaves the barrel at 933 fps.
"Immediate change of behavior". Perfect.
Really good pair of videos, answered some questions, and convinced me to bring the 12GA back out of hibernation.
I’ve had weird experiences with federal flight control, i always pick out different ammo to pattern to see how I like different loads for home defense and federal flight control 9 pellet 00buck doesn’t pattern that well in my gun, it always gives 2 flyers (Usually within an inch of each other) 5” away from the single hole where the wad and 7 pellets went through at 8yards (longest possible shot in my house) however I’ve heard of people getting single holes on paper at up to 15 yards. My new defensive load is federal 2 3/4” 12pellet 00buck because it consistently put all pellets with in a 5” circle at 8 yards and if I’m going to have the same spread then might as well go with the extra pellets with more evenly spread pellets throughout the pattern. Just goes to show that you always need to pattern your own gun
My shotgun is cyl bore 18.5” rem 870
The excellence in this video just compliments Part 1. Thanks again for the very in depth yet easy to understand info. 😁👍👍
I love my shotty, so much fun, so intense, definitely going to get the nod if the SHTF at the house
This was one of the most informative buckshot videos I've ever seen, thank you!
Had no idea how useful shot cups were up until now
Paul Harrell brought me here.
Me too.
Same
Great job....as always. Thanks for the quality ammo I bought from you last week: good price & only took 3 days over the weekend. Stay healthy everyone!
"Unconscious competence."
I like that term!
started watching these videos years ago. then recently bought ammo from you. Thanks for all the videos and work.
I understand the main objective is to "Stop the threat" and not necessarily to kill. However, I believe it may depend on the local laws of where you live. The survival of a physical threat in your home may become a financial threat in the courtroom.
We have to say you shoot to “stop the threat” because telling people you should shoot to kill is bad optics
Not something most people will talk about but that doesn't mean it's not true.
It's often easier to kill someone than stop them right there, if you kill them and they don't know they are dead (fatal wound) then they kill you right back it didn't do you any good. Most fatal wounds do not instantly incapacitate the attacker that is why you don't just want to kill them you want to stop them from being able to kill or injure you or other innocent people whether it kills them or not that is irrelevant. You may get lucky and stop them or make them leave with just pain or fear alone but you can never count on that that is why lower powered guns such as the .22LR and .25 ACP are poor choices for self defense.
Very good points, and I currently own two high-quality 12-gauge pump shotguns.
However, my Colt M4 with green-tip ammo is what I prefer for all my self-defense needs with a long gun, be they in my home, vehicle, or community.
Interesting how the 9 pellet buck is more likely to have a 'flier' pellet than 8 pellet buck. Thank you for making these videos for us.
Always logical, clear, concise, informative and well-presented. Great vid.
I learned a lot the last 2 videos. Thanks
Brilliant, I consider your videos among the very best produced by anyone. So thank you again, and I look forward to the next. I have never shot a shotgun, but look forward to it some day soon. I’m 64 and coming to shooting late in life, but I’m feeling as though it’s what our world now demands. I enjoyed your wry sense of humor vis-a-vis the change in behavior a buckshot round will produce. All my best.
000
When it absolutely, positively, has to go down right now. And you are out of slugs.
Thanks Chris for all of your hard work! Great, informative video
I always enjoy your presentations and learn from them too. Favorite is still the .32 caliber family video. Thx.
Man, I got us a great job on this video. My wife and I have discussed at length shotguns for home defense. And our house pistols are first. We have a lot of children and may need to open doors and Crowell are children. Also, our pistols have attached flashlights and at the moment our long gun situation does not. In our house grabbing a carbine is not out of the question for home defense situation. If we are reaching for a 12 gauge shotgun we are encountering a large threat, or a very determined foe. One thing I think should be mentioned I never keep the chamber loaded on any shotgun I have dropped them and seen them discharge about doing it it's not safe. The first round in my pipe is always a slug. Buy Mossberg 535 with an 18-inch barrel is what I keep for home defense it is also my hunting shotgun. Every round after the slug 3 1/2 inch double ought buck. If I step out my front door I have two acres of property so long range becomes an issue. But more realistically I might be shooting at an animal that is moving such as a large predator or a pack of coyotes.
"9th pellet flier" reminds me of my morning squat on the throne.
Good info though!
Outstanding video, as well as part 1. I feel a 12 gauge is by long and far the best home defense weapon of choice for not all but most homeowners, and you've explained why far more informative than I ever could have.
Why not just use regular bird shot for in the house? Close range should keep it pretty tight and if one gets loose it wouldn’t have much energy once it hits a wall or something. Serious question.
Who the hell disliked this objective presentation of unbiased information?
I wouldn't mind seeing some testing on slugs. Particularly the higher velocity, softer lead, foster slugs. In my experiences when shooting slugs like Remington Sluggers, they seem to fragment fast & dump their energy pretty fast as well. That might not keep harmful projectiles from penetration interior walls inside your home but I couldn't imagine much leaving the outer walls of your home & reaching anything outside, including neighbors homes. If you live alone or your position in house has any relevance to the direction of your intended shots, this could def be a possibility. Weather you plan on using a shotgun, carbine or pistol, you most likely wouldn't be shooting any of them in a direction that could be unsafe to those others living/ sleeping in your home. No matter the weapon, we should always be target aware & conscious of what is behind it, right? So bc of their predictability & effectiveness, maybe slug tests? Just a thought... 🤔 Thanks for the awesome content guys 👍 and keep it up!
TheReindeer TheRabbitTheBat this past summer there was a man shot in the leg inside his own home. Was a .12 gauge slug from a wildlife officer trying to kill a black bear in Fort Simpson, Northwest Territories, Canada.
@Travis Thacker www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/bear-fort-simpson-shot-man-1.5294573
Hitchcock 45 shot Remington 1 oz. slugs at a 1" or maybe 1 1/2" pressboard table top at 230 yards. Those slugs bored a nice big ol' hole in that wood. Open sights as well. I was very surprised.
@@guygourley2411 but how many Hickock 45s are out there. I wish I could shoot like him.
If you look around youtube, there's an old series called "The Box Of Truth". They did a lot of drywall-penetration testing on various ammo... it was always eye-opening.
From the 1st time I’ve watched chris he’s always been very straight forward and level headed in his direction the way he presents all the info about guns,,,,😊😊😊
I Really enjoyed This video!!!
Great video! Home defense and self-defense shootings are often a wee bit different than police shootings in that the predator, like most predators in any species, usually is not willing to invest much time in an attack that is going sideways. While buckshot doesn't always immediately "stop" someone willing to shoot it out with the police (different mindset than a predator as the predator is then being preyed upon), shooting an intruder or assailant is much more likely to cause them to decide to go elsewhere forthwith. Certainly this isn't 100%, so having more rounds ready to go is essential and prudent, but generally, once the lead starts flying, most predators decide to break off and flee. If the fall dead on your front lawn or are caught later in the local ER, either way, you and your family are safe.
Once again, I'm a huge fan of the Federal Flite-Control wads and thanks for this and all your videos!
I was really impressed when I patterned my Mossberg 500 SP with the Federal flight control...at 25 good paces, I had to walk up and do a double look, basically a fist sized hole. I thought I missed...my practice Spartans were at 8". But still the Spartans would do well within my abode too...but yeah, love the boomstick
This has been an awesome series. I would love to see a lever action caliber comparison, with your regular testing protocol on gel, fps, energy. The data that exists is scattered and poorly collected, and I'd love to see luckygunners take on .357 vs .44 v 45-70 vs 30-30.
"If you want a tight pattern without having to buy specialty ammo, you should instead get expensive custom gunsmithing."
One time large expense vs. continuous small expenses. Your choice is up to your circumstances and opinion.
The idea is that I get the Vang Comp service once, and no matter where I go I can find buckshot. But I won't have to search for special buckshot. It's not a matter of expense, it's a matter of supply.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz yeah but now your shot gun can only shoot like they tuned it. i want to be able to do more than one shot pattern with mine for different situations.
@@bigsean2473 okay...then *dont* get your gun Van Comp'd. It's an option, not a requirement. I personally have a M590A1 with a Accu-Choked brrl, I dont want my gun to be back-bored (I presume thats what vang comp does, thats what the ol timers do), but some people do.
Good point on choke tubes. I have found over the years that an IC choke tube on my 20" 870 helps the patterns a bit, and i also get good slug accuracy. Modified didn't make any more difference, and full choke patterns seemed a little larger. I stuck with the IC because you don't want much constriction with slugs, nor do you want lead shaving off in the choke tube. The Flitecontrol is very effective. I tested it for my former agency (at my expense) 10 or 12 yrs ago. It is almost astounding from a cylinder bore out to 15 yds, and the pattern is very usable to 25 yards or farther. Great point on the 8 pellet patterns- those were some amazing patterns you had. Lots of hurt when the pellets are close together.
I agree, the 20 guage is the home defense weapon I encourage people to use for home defense. Charles Daly semi will suffice, cheap protection for home use only.
I prefer "Dragon's Breath " and a fire extinguisher!
Good discussion and information in both videos. As a longtime Subscriber, I agree with an earlier comment about being bewildered as to why this channel doesn't have well over a million subscribers.
I have a Remington A5 built in 1908 which after 1911 became known as the Model 11. It is in very good condition and serves as a very reliable coyote killer with #2 buckshot out to near 35 yards.
What are your thoughts on #4 buck shot for a defensive load ? I understand some law inforcement use it .. 🤔
It's gross how underrated this channel is. Just give in a little and make the popular vids that feed off the hype to get more subscribers and then go back to the good and honest content we've been seeing.
2:04 those looke exactly like HDPE pellets. I'm in plastic manufacturing, we use them for purging the machines of materials in between runs. The stuff is cheap for our use, but makes perfect sense for someone like Remington that is buying gaylords of the stuff at a time.
These videos are a gem of well articulated information, thank you
i love me shottys so much i have four 😎🤷🏽♂️, i need to buy a all wood stock. that mossberg 590a1 retro looks pretty sick
I have come up with a method of making my own special double ought (00) buckshot that when shot out of a 12 gauge shotgun with a cylinder bore every pellet is almost equidistant from each other when shot at 60 feet and the spread is almost always a 5-6 inch spread. At 100 ft. shooting the same load the spread stays equidistant from each pellet and the spread has opened up to just 8-10 inches every shot. I never buy any commercial buckshot any more and I also make my own slugs that are as good or better than anything you can find being sold today. I came by this method quite a few years ago after one of my Uncles showed me how he did it. It is a combination of some of what he did and an extra little thing that I added. I also have a method of taking off the shelf bird shot of any manufacturer and converting any shotshell with any shot size and turning cheap ammo into slugs that perform just as well or maybe even a little better than expensive slug ammunition you buy 5 at a time. I am thinking about trying to patent this method. I believe it would radically change the way shotguns are used.
There's a special place in heaven for people who do research like this. Thank you sir's.
Superb video! Best yet, very informative!
That little guy? I wouldn't worry about that little guy.
Mattycakes yeah, let me get a liter of cola!
Vote for Pedro
Team ramrod!
Ccs rock men bulletproofing is the top same guys that make are flak jackets
I am a very experienced 12 gauge shooter.I like this guy