More Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 2]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Today we're continuing our deep dive into the topic of using buckshot for personal protection. In this second and final installment, we're looking at what buckshot is made of (literally) and the advantages of using tight-patterning buckshot over slugs or a carbine.
Be sure to check out Buckshot Part 1 if you missed it: • Stuff You Should Know ...
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Can we all please give Lucky Gunner some kind of award for the work they do? The info is unbiased, clear, concise, and relevant.
Buy from them?
I like Lucky Gunner's videos, but he and John at Active Self Protection are acting like scared Millennials raised on too much "zero tolerance" in schools. Overly paranoid about one buckshot round not hitting like a laser. A shotgun works great because it spreads and give a higher hit probability under stress. Plus, that pellet spread maximizes damage and stopping the bad guy immediately. These scare-dy cats should just buy a pistol caliber carbine or an AR instead of putting out all of this ridiculous information on using absurd Flitecontrol rounds at 10 feet away. Flitecontrol was developed to give tighter patterns for law enforcement and hunters at 30-50 yards. It was not meant for home defense at 10-20 feet where it essentially acts like a slug. Buckshot that tight is going to overpenetrate at very close range.
Great informative video great
@@JohnB-dr8sk It's also worth noting that, depending on the context, you aren't actually legally responsible for every projectile that leaves your firearm. While it's certainly of no comfort to anyone inadvertently hit, the way felony murder works often puts the criminal liability for stray rounds on the attacker that provoked the shot in the first place. This is less true of civil liability but it's still a factor even there.
Ultimately though, you can never guarantee you're actually going to hit your target anyway. They could always move unexpectedly at an inopportune time. So all the worrying about stuff like over penetration is largely misguided considering the actual way to not hit someone you don't want to is to not shot towards them in the first place. If you don't want to shoot your own child, don't gamble on your ammo not going all the way through the bad guy or not having any flyers. Instead, don't shoot straight in to your kid's bedroom wall.
@@JohnB-dr8sk I agree with the concern about buck shot acting like a slug at close range. That's not ideal. But, at the same time, I've made peace with the fact that every round I'm going to use in pretty much platform is going to go through the few layers of dry wall WHEN I miss with a pellet or a 9mm round or (God forbid) an entire 12 gauge shot. It's going to be on me to make sure that I change my angle so that isn't an issue. I can drop to a knee so any missed pellets are well over my sleeping kid's head, should it go through the wall. I can step off line so that it goes into the other wall and peppers my wife's stack of towels in the closet instead of the guest room.
I have responsibilities the bad guys doesn't. And that sucks, but life sucks. I'm the master of my house and my environment. I'll do the best I can to not miss, I won't be scared of every pellet, but I will take responsibility for every pellet. It's on me to make sure that I can fail (miss) safely. And I can do a lot to control that.
“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Now that’s a quote I can get behind! Love it! 😂
Exactly
EXACTLY
An end of all behavior.
“Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people. Shotguns, the right load at the right range will physically remove a chunk from your opponent and throw it on the floor behind him, and you will have to get someone to come clean it up with a shovel.”
-Raw Clint
Thunder Ranch
Best comment on the entire internet
How this channel isn’t over 1M yet is mind boggling - some of the best, most well presented content out there.
I absolutely agree !!!
An unfortunate causality of the All mighty Algorithm. May he have mercy on us all.
Consider ourselves lucky.
He is one of the sharpest tacks out there!
No big explosions or gold platted 1911
This is a GREAT series on buckshot and shotguns. You've effectively compressed 5 years of shotgun experience into these videos. *Well done, thank you.*
Paul Harrell recently referred to your 9th pellet flier and, in addition to complimenting you, agreed with you on the oddity of this phenomenon.
Paul harrel is simply the best
It's not really an oddity. The group of pellets in the shell is more uniform if packed in groups of 8. If the lead pellet is not plated and harder more pellets will deform...one usually more than the others. Buffered, hardened,good shot cup, plated. Expensive buckshot but patterns really well.
It is an oddity because there are 3 layers of 3 stack pellets. Why is only one row having a single fly off while the other 2 rows have their perfect group pellets
"A single round of buckshot to the torso, almost always results in an immediate change of behavior." Lol, amen.
And that's exactly why I will do the exact opposite of this video. The average homeowner when pulling that trigger will need all the disbursement he/she can get.
Shotguns.
Most useful firearm ever made.
Hunt anything that runs or flies with the variety if ammo available.
"a single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in a change of behavior' might be the best sentence in both episodes. A target dropping to the ground while his 2 or 3 hommies defecate themselves is certainly a change in behavior.
It has the same energy as the chieftain saying being hit by a tank shell even if it doesn't penetrate is a significant emotional event.
Absolutely the best video I've seen on the topic. Outstanding job at presenting pertinent information that almost anyone with or without firearms training can comprehend. I love the no nonsense, cut straight to the chase approach on your presentation. Great job and thank you for this top notch content.
Another good video Sir!
I think you are the first person to actually talk about the "quirks" of buckshot (it's response to chokes, the 9th pellet flier, and the difference between buffered and unbuffered shot) on TH-cam. I've seen a fair amount of stuff about Birdshot but not Buckshot.
@Tzuede Off the Cuff A lot of semiautos won't cycle birdshot. You're not alone.
I subbed right after you guys put out the OG Beretta 1301 content and have been impressed at your quality videos ever since.
I'm one of the few members of my department that still carry both a shotgun and patrol rifle on duty and absolutely love to shoot shotgun.
I truly believe that aside from taking a course, the best shotgun training is to browse the TH-cam's for a bootleg "Art Of The Dynamic Shotgun" and get a handful of dummy shells.
Another often overlooked advantage to me is the ability to administrative reload without losing the ammo already loaded. A pistol or typical modern rifle require you to drop the box magazine to insert a new one.
I own that set of DVDs and love them. Watch them all the time. The training never gets old, unlike the actors. I too am issued a rifle and shotgun at work. Prefer the shotgun for “felony stop” distances. We load Federal FliteControl 9 pellet. I feel pretty well armed with that thing. In fact, one sits under my bed right now. 😎👍
Added to my list of keeper quotes: "A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior. " Thanks for that!
I can tell you that from my experience, with my shotgun, the Flight Control ammo patterns slightly best with Improved Cylinder(.720), instead of Cylinder(.730). I think this slight restriction keeps the shot cup inline with my point of aim a little better, without stripping it, which would happen with too much choke restriction. As for standard buckshot loads... My shotty patterns the best using an Improved Modified(.705), but a Full(.700) comes in close second. #4 buckshot patterns best using a .680, or a .690 choke. You provided some excellent info in these 2 videos, regarding buckshot. Maybe you dispelled a few "myths". Love your channel.
I like to call that 9th flyer the "crazy ivan" though thats mainly talking about boxes of russian steel case ammo, each box comes with a single crazy ivan flyer round.
The lucky throat shot.
"The bullet is foolish, the bayonet wise."
So glad I found this channel. With so many "first time" buyers equipping shotguns for home defense due to the peaceful protests, without any experience with shooting shotguns, I hope they find this video. I really like that you cover both ammunition types and chokes. I am curious what your thoughts are on the Olin Mfr "military" 9-pellet 00 rounds as compared to those covered in the 2 videos. The discussion about chokes likely saved me some cash; which I'll gladly pay forward at your web store.
To paraphrase James Yeager "shotgun fights usually don't last very long".
Because if someone isn't dead, they're out of ammo! 😂
Flight control is when I keep the wings straight and level....opps, wrong channel.
The Flying Backpack you don’t wanna do any California landings!! 🚁 💨💨
Lol well I also subscribe to many flight channels so all good here.
The Flying Backpack - Like "Gun Control" is keeping your Gun on Target!
@Green Giant ...really? im not saying you're wrong. I'm saying you didn't have to hit the REPLY button. just saying...
Federal Premium was the most consistent of all we tested. Since our armed encounters tended to be at distance tight, consistent patterns served us best. However, for urban environments pattern spread can be very beneficial, especially if an assailant is moving. If a really tight pattern is desired then one should choose a rifled slug.
I really enjoyed this dual video series. Very informative and you have changed my mind-set on tight patterns vs wider patterns. Thanks.
I have an NFA registered Benelli Super Nova Tactical with a 14.5in barrel. I use Honady Low Recoil Tap in it with good results. At 45 feet, it patterns just over 5-1/4 inches. I also chronograph that load out of the shorter barrel. It leaves the barrel at 933 fps.
I understand the main objective is to "Stop the threat" and not necessarily to kill. However, I believe it may depend on the local laws of where you live. The survival of a physical threat in your home may become a financial threat in the courtroom.
We have to say you shoot to “stop the threat” because telling people you should shoot to kill is bad optics
Not something most people will talk about but that doesn't mean it's not true.
It's often easier to kill someone than stop them right there, if you kill them and they don't know they are dead (fatal wound) then they kill you right back it didn't do you any good. Most fatal wounds do not instantly incapacitate the attacker that is why you don't just want to kill them you want to stop them from being able to kill or injure you or other innocent people whether it kills them or not that is irrelevant. You may get lucky and stop them or make them leave with just pain or fear alone but you can never count on that that is why lower powered guns such as the .22LR and .25 ACP are poor choices for self defense.
I like that even though you have 700+ hours of training, you remain humble and encourage viewers to question.
I would venture to guess that 95% of the people watching this content have less than 25 hours of actual training.
I wouldn't mind seeing some testing on slugs. Particularly the higher velocity, softer lead, foster slugs. In my experiences when shooting slugs like Remington Sluggers, they seem to fragment fast & dump their energy pretty fast as well. That might not keep harmful projectiles from penetration interior walls inside your home but I couldn't imagine much leaving the outer walls of your home & reaching anything outside, including neighbors homes. If you live alone or your position in house has any relevance to the direction of your intended shots, this could def be a possibility. Weather you plan on using a shotgun, carbine or pistol, you most likely wouldn't be shooting any of them in a direction that could be unsafe to those others living/ sleeping in your home. No matter the weapon, we should always be target aware & conscious of what is behind it, right? So bc of their predictability & effectiveness, maybe slug tests? Just a thought... 🤔 Thanks for the awesome content guys 👍 and keep it up!
TheReindeer TheRabbitTheBat this past summer there was a man shot in the leg inside his own home. Was a .12 gauge slug from a wildlife officer trying to kill a black bear in Fort Simpson, Northwest Territories, Canada.
@Travis Thacker www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/bear-fort-simpson-shot-man-1.5294573
Hitchcock 45 shot Remington 1 oz. slugs at a 1" or maybe 1 1/2" pressboard table top at 230 yards. Those slugs bored a nice big ol' hole in that wood. Open sights as well. I was very surprised.
@@guygourley2411 but how many Hickock 45s are out there. I wish I could shoot like him.
If you look around youtube, there's an old series called "The Box Of Truth". They did a lot of drywall-penetration testing on various ammo... it was always eye-opening.
Great job....as always. Thanks for the quality ammo I bought from you last week: good price & only took 3 days over the weekend. Stay healthy everyone!
These videos are a gem of well articulated information, thank you
Only issue with a vets story about 5 rounds of 5.56 to knock a guy down is, they use fmjs. Load up a soft point, polymer tip or hollow point and it becomes much more effective.
Ehhh, with 5.56, I don't know about that. Expanding rounds have advantages, but as far as I understand, that's not the primary wounding mechanism for that caliber.
@@LuckyGunner Ive killed a deer with 55gr fmj and many with 55gr soft points, out to 170 yards, soft points either dropped the deer or they were dead within 40 yards, with a good blood trail. The fmj made for poor tracking, not much damage internally and was only a 30 yard shot. All heart/lung shots. Just my 2 cents.
I will defer to your experience there since I've never hunted anything with .223. That said, I don't believe there is any bullet design that will make .223 stop a human at close range with a single round as reliably as #00 buckshot.
Brilliant, I consider your videos among the very best produced by anyone. So thank you again, and I look forward to the next. I have never shot a shotgun, but look forward to it some day soon. I’m 64 and coming to shooting late in life, but I’m feeling as though it’s what our world now demands. I enjoyed your wry sense of humor vis-a-vis the change in behavior a buckshot round will produce. All my best.
I see the wide spread shot as double edged sword. The shot pattern may not be tight but you have a greater chance of hitting the target. In a stressful scenario, your aim will likely diminish. Like you said, even 1 pellet can kill. Now, if we're talking hunting or a scenario where it involves distance, then the obvious answer are the tighter loads.
I was really impressed when I patterned my Mossberg 500 SP with the Federal flight control...at 25 good paces, I had to walk up and do a double look, basically a fist sized hole. I thought I missed...my practice Spartans were at 8". But still the Spartans would do well within my abode too...but yeah, love the boomstick
"when a person is exposed to a single round of buckshot it almost always results in an immediate change in behavior" ! LOL
i love me shottys so much i have four 😎🤷🏽♂️, i need to buy a all wood stock. that mossberg 590a1 retro looks pretty sick
I am a very experienced 12 gauge shooter.I like this guy
Gel test the #4 Buck!
I've seen other videos on buckshot patterning and something that stood out was how the 8 pellet OO performed better than the 9. Don't recall the science behind it, but I've seen the case made several times. Might have been the late great Paul Harrell.
2:04 those looke exactly like HDPE pellets. I'm in plastic manufacturing, we use them for purging the machines of materials in between runs. The stuff is cheap for our use, but makes perfect sense for someone like Remington that is buying gaylords of the stuff at a time.
My SO issued Winchester OO 9 pellet. Invariably it would throw one pellet over one shoulder or the other at 25 yards. Federal Flight Control 8 pellet reduced recoil would always group six inches or less with no flyers. One officer had a short barrel modified choke gun that would reliably do six inches at 40(!) yards.
My personal shotgun came with IC barrel. I obtained a 18" Modified barrel. There was considerable improvement with Federal FC OO, and slug accuracy was improved slightly.
Got my trusty 24 inches Maverick 88 loaded and ready in my bedroom corner. Firts one is 00, the following are Slugs... That's the way i see it.
🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🤪🇫🇷🖖🏻
Your video made look at my 12ga ammo. Most is 9 pellet but some Federal magnum 2 3/4" 12 pellet and 3" 15 pellet. My home defense plan does include my shotguns but when I lived in Los Angeles, I had one near the front door with 8+1.
Man, I got us a great job on this video. My wife and I have discussed at length shotguns for home defense. And our house pistols are first. We have a lot of children and may need to open doors and Crowell are children. Also, our pistols have attached flashlights and at the moment our long gun situation does not. In our house grabbing a carbine is not out of the question for home defense situation. If we are reaching for a 12 gauge shotgun we are encountering a large threat, or a very determined foe. One thing I think should be mentioned I never keep the chamber loaded on any shotgun I have dropped them and seen them discharge about doing it it's not safe. The first round in my pipe is always a slug. Buy Mossberg 535 with an 18-inch barrel is what I keep for home defense it is also my hunting shotgun. Every round after the slug 3 1/2 inch double ought buck. If I step out my front door I have two acres of property so long range becomes an issue. But more realistically I might be shooting at an animal that is moving such as a large predator or a pack of coyotes.
Best info on buckshot for self defense in home use.
"An immediate change of behavior." wonderful wording. haha.
Late to the party here, but I did this for a living for 26 years. The Flight control wad from Hornady or Federal has taken buckshot loads to another level. No need for a custom Vang Comp conversion to any shotgun with this ammo. I bought thousands of rounds of this for duty use. Don't know if Federal still makes the LE127 load which is a high velocity load that would work in our older Benelli M-1 Super 90 guns. For a pump gun, the LE 132 low recoil is fine. Hornady made a deal with Federal many years ago to use the patented Federal Flite Control wad. I had this confirmed by a Federal L/E rep years ago. Looks like Hornady still has the deal. These loads run perfectly through a cylinder or IC choke. Prior to the Federal Flite Control wad, the normal calculation with buckshot loads was 1" of pattern dispersion to per yard of distance. Flite Control changed all of this . At 30 yards, the Flite Control wad, the pattern would stay within a 9" pie plate. If your distances are not farther than 50", regular buckshot will work well. Over that, get the FC wad loads.
As always I love you evidence based approach so thank you. I am however a convert to the home defense carbine with a caveat, mine is in 6.5 Grendel. I used to subscribe to a high velocity, low weight load in a 5.56 carbine but after shooting a couple of whitetails with it I saw poor results. A 140lb doe shot within 30 yards is a great analogue for what would happen to a human at home defense distance. Shot three does, all double lung shots with 40gr VMax. First dropped dead in her tracks the next two ran about 50 yards. Massive permanent wound cavity on near side lung and no exit wound was what I was going for and achieved but didn’t like the second two does running so far. My current carbine is in 6.5 Grendel with 90gr Speer TNT which has dropped two does in their tracks with no exit wound. Still has all of the handling benefits of the AR-15 with more punch in my limited testing.
Spot on. 8 pellet FliteControl is the way to go. Bought a case
of it from you recently. Great stuff.
Superb video! Best yet, very informative!
WOW
That was A LOT of information on Shotgun loads.
Greatly appreciate your so clear, concise and informative presentation!
every honor on video, we need more videos like this to see which ammunition is better, for our rifles, congratulations.
1. The bigger the shot the more penetration.
2. Buffered and plated stops deformation which keeps the pattern more uniform.
3. The advanced wads keep the pattern tighter.
Good home defense load option: #6 shot - #8 shot birdshot wax slugs. Frangible on hard and soft targets.
Great content and terrific filming / lighting / editing. Fabulous work.
You are 99% correct on everything you said. The only thing I would ask you to double check on is shooting out of a choked barrel. I think if you patterned let's say 10 shots of full vs. 10 shots of cylinder or improved cylinder bore you would see on average a great pattern at any home defense range. It is truly the ultimate in stopping power. While I have never had to use it in home defense (THANK GOD) I have used it extensively in deer hunting. I don't think I ever lost a single pellet on any deer weather broad shot or facing straight on, out to 25 yards. I know I have never had to pull the trigger more than twice if under 30 yds. and maybe two times over 30 yds. 50 years ago a purchased a box of 5 slugs that I use for my last shot just in case my first 2 did not bring the animal down (in NJ you can only have 3 shots for deer) I still have those 5 shells; I never had to use them.
A ported choke tube tends to strip the wad away sooner then a non-ported coke tube.
The addition of screw-in chokes is of major significance to a shotgun owner. I have been reloading for buckshot for 30 years. with standard cylinder bore barrels, Federal Flight control buckshot will produce the highest patterns, bar none.
Loading buckshot for predators and deer, the tightest patterns is usually achieved with NON Flight control ammo using chokes from IMproved modifed to an Extra full choke, many hundreds of patterns shot on pattern boards verify this, and it is trial and error with various choke tubes to verify which is best.
Cylinder bore chokes are good for 25-30 yards with 30 yards being an absolute max. If you had a couple of screw in chokes, you could easily have a 75 yard shotgun for various situations.
My Rem 11/87 shoots the tighest patterns with Rem factory flush mount choke tube in Extra full with 100% of the pattern being in a 15-20" circle at 40 yards, just think of the range of this choke with standard Rem 3" buffered shells in 00 and 000 buckshot. Rem #4, 3" shells pattern 100% in a 20" circle at 40 yards which makes this a 60 yard load for predators.
trouble with shotguns is they feel sluggish
sounds like B.S.(BuckShot) to me
@Thomas Pelley you can't tell me nothing, Mr. PelleyT
Fair. I think shorter barrel semi autos are pretty good
I picked up a $500 Lynx12 for fun..and that thing runs fast! Lighter than a Vepr too although I wish I waited one (of course it's on sale & in stock now for $999 at Classic Firearms.com). CSS metal mags are the best too.
That's a good one slugger.
Good videos: parts I & II. Optimal choice of weapon is always subject to many variables. Both videos clearly identify variables for viewer consideration. Personal opinions and preferences of the presenter are professionally stated as such and are presented with good analysis justifying his choices.
"A single round of buckshot almost always results in an immediate change of behavior".
My boss is a Versitite-wad 😂😂
I’m a LG customer, and I find these Videos interesting, to say the least. Further, as someone who has actually used an Improved cylinder, 12 GA 18” barrelled shotgun (at point blank range) for home defense, all I can say is that pattern does not matter. Ignition matters.
you and Paul Harrell should colab at some point
There might be a conflict of interest there - Paul isn't too hip on hyper ammo which may cut into lucky gunner's business.
Paul is entertainer and not a subject matter expert, nor competent gun user by any strech of the imagination ... So hopefuly never ...
Givens, Haught, Chandler, Bolke ... those are the names you want to see Chris colab with ...
yes. very true.
@@titanscerw Not sure which Paul you're thinking of, but Paul Harrell has several shooting championships under his belt.
An 8 pellet load of 00 buck is in a stable configuration - dynamically stable. The 9 pellet load has static stability, but upon firing, the extra room of the shotgun's forcing cone allows the column to collapse into a more stable 2x2x2x2 (where 8 pellet starts out) configuration, and the odd-man-out goes to the top or bottom of the stack, and may (usually) exit the barrel a few degrees out of true to the rest of the pellets, causing the flyer.
I would have thought this would have filtered down to the ammo companies by now. This was an experiment we tested in the Army in 1982.
Great video. To paraphrase Clint Smith, ‘ a shotgun with the right ammo blows chunks off your bad guy and throws them on the ground.’ A Turkey load of #4 shot will destroy a target and not penetrate multiple walls.
But the recoil will be tremendous.
I am trying Aguila Mini Shells as an alternative to full power buck shot. My reasoning is, at close range, 15' feet or less for home defense. Full power 00 buck can over penetrate with some of the pellets. Aguila Mini Shells have about half the power and I think would be a nice option if you can get your shot gun to run them reliably. My home defense is a Mossberg 500. As is, with full power shells it is very reliable...
I bought an OPSol Mini-Clip for my Mossberg and it seems to work pretty good. I've put 40 Aguila rounds through it with zero malfunctions so far. Without the OPSol Mini-Clip, the Aguila Mini Shells sometimes flip into odd positions causing malfunctions... However, I still need to put more rounds through it with this mod to be certain it's reliable. In the meantime, I still keep it loaded with full power buck...
I agree, slug or buckshot one descant hit threat is over.
I use Federal Flite Control 9 pellet 00 Low recoil. Both my Mossberg 500 with 18.5" barrel and SxS Rossi with 20", I get a fist sized hole out to ~15yds, withe the occasional flyer an inch or so out from the main group
First, love this channel.
I think BB shot (birdshot) is one of the best at home for home protection.
#4 buck, could be a good home defense also.
For me the shotgun is just the easiest thing to pull up and fire. Doesn't even have to be shouldered at close distance. It also has enough heft and length to fight with like a quarter staff and can be topped off with ammo. Definitely have to be comfortable with them though.
3-inch 00-buck 15 pellets always have 1 flyer as well
I'm old school, buck shot is meant for a scatter gun concept, hit more targets at greater distances, use a slug for deadlier damage & accuracy at longer ranges, and bird shot is better for home defense inside the house to out to the driveway.
fewer trigger presses = less hearing loss for you and family.
Supressed 44 magnum level action... it's a real thing, look for YT videos.
Courts look at shotguns generally speaking in a better light than semi auto rifles. That’s another reason, depending on where you live state wise and location wise, suburb/ downtown/ rural areas, and how your house is laid out/ designed, why shotguns can be better suited for home defense over rifles and handguns.
The one pellet goes off with the plastic slug. The slug get carried by the direction the excess plastic slug takes
I had the vang comp thing done to my 20" 590 barrel, totally worth it and it works.
Dont yell at me
Thank you very much. We're happy you're happy.
@@VangComp
I'm happy you're happy that he's happy. 😊
@@VangComp , the work was done by Casey at tacord.com a couple of years ago in Canada. Fantastic service.
@@P-12 He's a good man. Thorough.
I have all of the mentioned guns with every possible round. I would like ballistic testing done to see what to shoot in my house. Over penetration is a great concern for me! Looks like you now have a topic for multi videos. have fun! And get it done!
Buckshot ? ... better call an ambulance .
Poor Buck , that's going to leave a mark . 😲
Love it! just ordered more ammo from Lucky Gunner tonight !
Also, shot shells are still available everywhere. You might get only slugs or birdshot; but it is available during this ammo shortage.
Very informative video as always.
Great series of video's. I like a 12 ga. for ,well everything. In your scenario of 40 feet "bird shot" is nearly as good. #2, #4, or #6 high brass loads are pretty rude in that distance...tho a choke etc. will be wanted. For indoor home defense its a good choice as the closer the target the more lethal yet it wont penetrate multi walls etc. But I still have 00 or 000 buckshot ready to go.
Thank you Commander Riker
Shut up, Wesley.
Over 13 yard shot isn't realistic in my home. The "lead chucker" round as you call it will work fine for me. If I want a tighter pattern I'll tighten the choke.
Ha - learned something new. Eight vs nine pellet loads! I wonder if the “even” number loadings holds true with 12 ga. 2 3/4” 00 magnum loadings with 12 pellets? FWIW #4 buckshot with 27 pellets tends to pattern tighter and integrates better with chokes up to improved modified and, because of #4’s lighter pellet weight, it tends to penetrate less in any medium.
Again, FWIW the “Foster” type slugs with their large hollow base are unique in that upon impact with an animate target the nose slows down and, instead of deforming as one would think, the skirt catches up to the nose causing a very large, flat projectile. The NYPD Stake Out Unit (SOU) initially used buckshot, but switched to 12 ga. Rifled slugs because of problems with collateral damage.
12:06 nice double tap!
To each their own if you want "tight" buckshot patterns.
I have an M3 clone with an extended choke that comes standard and I believe is standard or a slightly modified but not enough to cause restrictions. It uses the standard Benelli/Beretta choke system. I get good groups at reasonable distances but people tend to try to choke the barrel too much in an 18.5" etc. drffense barrel and end up with counter productive results, hence the omission of chokes (as well as cost) on several types of shotguns, as you mentioned. I'm just making this statement to let Benelli users that they have options.
You're dead on (pun intended) about slugs being very effective at stopping a threat, no matter how drugged out they may be and that you can getcthem on target under 50yds with no problem. The issue is that a decent slug round hits and penetrstes like a freight train. It's not going to stop unlimited either hits something solid or loses enough energy to wear it out." 😆 Downloaded slugs are a great self defense choice.
You make one very good point about shotguns that most people don't know or don't want to know because they become enamored with the system. That point being...
Shotguns are *not* for beginners. You don't just buy a shotgun, put it in the corner and depend/rely on it to "do the work for you." Should you decide a shotgun is the thing you want because of your environment, the stopping power or XYZ reasons, you need to train with it vigorously and not just being able to hit your target. You need to become so familiar with the operation of the weapon that all of its actions and idiosyncrasies become rote. You can handle, operate all of the controls and load and unload the weapon as second nature. It's unfamiliarity with a weapon and especially a shotgun that results in a lot of "unintended consequences," some leathsl. You don't want to accidentally shoot yourself, a family member or, heaven forbid, your dog or cat or even your bird in a cage with nowhere to go... It may sound as though I'm being flippant or trite but I assure you, these things happen.
Besides, if you hit someone with 8 rounds in full-auto (which is a miracle in the first place) it does not deliver as much energy and stop-juice as 8 .30 cal projectiles hitting simultaneously from a shotgun. There's no comparison in effect and the chances of you hitting all 8 9mm rounds in the size of your fist with semi or full-auto are astronomical against.
If an AR sounds like more than you want to deal with for whatever reason, give great consideration to a pistol caliber carbine. They're easier to control than a pistol (also requires a great amount of handling to control a pistol) and are accurate and maneuverable inside tighter spaces. Just recently they've really come on in both popularity and selection in all price ranges.
I was in a combat munitions unit in the military and we had a saying ... "One mag, one kill." 😀 There's no truth to the whole, one shot, one kill macho statement. If you're trying to put someone down, you want them to *stay* down. 4-5 rounds is almost automatic, more often eagerly follow.
There are now affordable carbines in 10mm, that will definitely do the job on anything 2 legged and a lot 4 legged (10mm is the common semi-auto caliber carried for bear defense in places like Montana and Alaska.
Finally, in response to your comment about "get a bright light for that gun..." One common mistake people make in choosing a light for their home defense weapon is thinking biggercis better and getting 1,200 lumen lights or more, think they need to flood the room with light.
In actuality, about a 300-350 lumen light is all you need, not going abi500. The reason being when it's dark in the house and you light that super bright light, you're going to wash out everything including your vision and your light is now working against you. A 350 lumen light is plenty to blind someone but, the other thing most don't learn is that you can point your light at the floor, out in front of you and the bounce will still light up the target in the hall/room without both giving up a direct line of sight back to you and it won't wash out your vision so you'll see just fine. Carrying your weapon at a low-ready with the butt to your shoulder, ready to raise on target, light pointed down and in front of you is ideal. You're less likely to accidentally shoot someone/thing you don't want to, blind yourself or give away a path right back between your eyes. Any (competent,) veteran at clearing rooms will tell you the same thing.
Thanks for a video. I am pondering a shotgun to add to my home defense arsenal. This series has been VERY helpful to me !!
Saving up for a Banelli M4, doing some shotgun research before I get it.
I like to shoot clays with my house shotgun. Lots of fun and it is a good way to get good practice with your gun. Also trap loads are cheap.
There are choke tubes specifically designed for buck shot.
Great info as usual with this guy!
THANK YOU for these vids. I have my 1st shotgun class coming up and had no idea what buckshot to buy.
I hope you actually found some.
I believe personally a shotgun is for buckshot. If you want long range use an ar15, ar10, or a bolt gun. A shotgun is a one hitter quitter short range sledgehammer. Having a 5 to 8 inch spread out to 40 feet is good for me because I aim every shot I take weather on the range, self defense, or when I was the shot gunner in my squad in Afghanistan going house to house.
I only use slugs for hunting or a need to get past a barrier.
Really good content in these videos. Love your channel!
Be neat to see how the wound channel compares to other things at differing distances.
To control spread but still have multiple shot, how about bringing back waxers? Either made with buckshot or birdshot. The shot stays together in the air but breaks apart when it hits like lock buster frangible shot. Using less wax or some impurity will help gaurantee the shot comes apart when it hits flesh or bone. It doesn't need to stay together like a slug which is why waxers were first used.
I think buckshot was made to spread,
#2 buckshot out of 10'' cylinder bore is my favourite.
Covers a wide area. If you want a tighter spread,
just use *slugs*
Thank you.
Good solid info.. Didn't know 8 round 00 buck was superior to 9 shot..
It would have been nice if you had covered buck shot through hotgun set for hunting but pressed into self-defense use.
In Alaska we have the brown bears in Southeast Alaska can get to 2.000 lbs. The first shot should be a slug as this may be the only shot that can be aimed. If you miss a critical shot that brakes down anything. Now it is pissed off & will hit at 35 miles/hr. All the rest of the shots are double 00 buck as now you can't but only point hoping that one of the pelts hit a critical spot breaking bones, emptying every thing in to the bear. And Hope. If it lands on you it's dead, or dying fast. In short there is a use for everything. Just hope every one knows how things work. So I thank you for educating others as to what,& how things work.