Coppercoat Antifouling Review at Year 6 - Ep 116 Sailing Luckyfish
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2020
- Coppercoat Antifouling Review - this week we review this remarkable product including coppercoat antifouling cost. Watch our coppercoat application video here • Coppercoat Application... and see why it has been a success for us.
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LINKS IN STORY:
For the full story on barnacle problems in Sarasota. • Bikini Try On, Firewor...
Barnacle removal trick here • EXTREME SAILING - Ep 2...
MUSIC CREDITS
13:15 Tatono - Revolving Feeling / revolving-feeling
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Find out more about the steps we took to get a good Coppercoat application in the video here: th-cam.com/video/y5dJfkCxl-k/w-d-xo.html
Glad to see the copper coat is holding up and doing what it's supposed to Stew. Not a small job to apply and is expensive to boot. Wishing you, Zaya and Leo a good day.
Thanks Tim, same to you!
I did a copper bottom job on my 36 foot sailing catamaran. I used regular building epoxy that was used building the boat hulls, NOT ablating epoxy, and I used 20% more copper powder.
Makes rock hard and glass smooth bottom. I think it will last 30 years ! Sail On 😎
ha, good one! At 20% more you must have a virtually solid copper bottom. Nice!
Did you use the original copper powder from coppercoat or cheap low micron copper powder like you can find on amazon or ebay?
I'm curious if there's any difference or objective reason against a cheap DIY job.
@@___Chris___ the best reason is application, the real proprietary value of copper coat is there knowledge of how to apply. Even then it's not always done right, most complaints stem from it not being installed or sanded right.
I find a window squeegee blade works really well for wiping slime off the bottom.
I raised my waterline by 4" and I don't have to worry about slime above the waterline anymore.
Wow, the growth on Luckyfish is amazing. Good thing you have that copper coat on!
It really is! We are hanging in some of the highest growth areas and on top of that, our poor boat was forced to stop moving due to lockdown which is fatal for any coating... thankfully the nasties cant get a strong bond with our coating... the fan worms, grass and algae, even barnacles are just squatting.. they haven't taken up a strong bond and wipe off easy, thanks for the comment
Awesome Coppercoat update 👍🏼
Thanks! 👍
I put a copper bottom with vinyl Ester resin and copper powder purchased locally around the year 2001 and I'm just now scraping in finding the bottom is solid and the Barnacles come off easily. There's a lot of sea moss but I'm very pleased with the copper bottom of that I installed years ago. I'm going to continue with the same recipe for touch up and top coating
Makes perfect sense to use it on every boat. Long term savings, less cleaning time, easier to clean.
What about wooden boats?
Hi Stu. Great video.
I'm going to have to preface this comment with a disclaimer that I am only an arm chair sailor with a lot of day sailing (trailer sailor) experience.
I've watched so many videos on so many types of anti-foul solutions that I've come to the conclusion that it they are like boat designs themselves. I.E everything is a compromise between needs, wants and application with no perfect solutions.
Coppercoat seems to be the anti-foul equivalent of Lithium batteries in the energy storage world with a lot of crossover similarities.
First and foremost is upfront cost vs life span vs usage.
A seasonal boat owner who's boat is only in the water for 3-4 months per year would be scratching their head wondering if it is worth the upfront expense in either Lithium or Coppercoat. In their case I'd surmise that Lead Acid batteries and Ablative anti-foul would be the most appropriate solution given the "real" time use of the boat if everything is maintained properly.
Another usage factor is "where" the boat is for most of it's life and "how" it is used. Cold clean waters degrade the effects of slime and solid growth vs Warm nutrient rich waters. And on top of that take into effect of constant motion vs sitting at anchorage for months at a time.
Installation and chemistry.
For live-aboards both Lithium and Coppercoat (in my opinion) are the best choice to date with a few caveats.
Coppercoat needs quality preparation, installation and chemistry. Just like Lithium. If you take short cuts you are going to be disappointed when changing from one chemistry to the other, not to mention getting a quality brand vs a knock-off brand.
Lithium installations require a lot of rewiring just because of how superior they work vs lead acid or agm. When converting from lead acid you really need to remove a lot of the old wire harnesses particular between chargers and the batteries etc to get the most out of the new installation. Not to mention getting new chargers if the old ones don't have a Lithium compatible algorithm.
Same goes for Coppercoat. You really have to take of everything back to the gel coat and rebuild from there. Most of the gripes I've noticed seem to come from the people that have taken the "Close enough is Good enough" approach.
Expectations and attention to detail seem to be the deciding in both cases.
Another factor is the "Knock-Off" effect. How many (for instance) Honda generator or pressure washer knock-offs are out there? Yes they may be true to design engineering wise but if they use inferior products for their valve guides, the life expectancy would be compromised, despite the promises.
Magic Anti-foul as depicted by Zitara seemed to be a new contender and a good compromise between ablative and solid anti-fouling although costs weren't mentioned. Not sure what is going on but their (Magic Antifouling) website now has an pre-entry warning stating they currently can't sell their bottom side solution because of the EPA. This maybe cookie driven because once agreeing to continue to their site despite this disclaimer I couldn't get the notice to reappear even 5 minutes later. Their FB page currently states this is a problem in the USA but doesn't mention EPA problems elsewhere. It's a pitty, their product looked promising, may just be bureaucracy in motion. I'm still waiting to see what happens.
I think that's a fair analogy wrt Lithium batteries although I have found it alot harder to plunge into LiPo4 than I did for coppercoat. The learning curve on lithium is so much greater but there are enough glowing reports and success stories out there now to make it well worth the effort. Great comment all round mate, thanks
Nice video and channel, I just stumbled upon it. I have a question regarding Coppercoat used as you describe here; If you scrub the bottom this often (every 2 - 5 weeks), is the Coppercoat really doing anything at all? I ask, as one recommended alternative to anti-fouling is to scrub the bottom about every month - month and a half, at least here in Finland.
Burnham on Crouch in Essex is where all UK antifouling is tested.
Stew Loved the video! Great to see Copper Coat is performing well! I do have one question. On the travel lift, do the straps want to pull the hulls together at the keel? Does it place stress at the cross beam joints. Thanks!
Interesting question. There maybe some compression at the keels but I don't believe it is significant. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the physics involved could explain further below? Thanks for the question Bert.
Good tip.
Glad it was helpful!
ive used CC a couple of times and from my experience at least 5-6 coats need to be applied and if its done by a yard they always skimp by applying 3-4 thin coats and then you get the growth of barnacles.
I would think you could take some copper pipe and sand a bunch of powder from it and add it to ablative paint. Maybe a cup per gal. I don't know if copper coat saves you any money if you're having to clean it biweekly.
Hi Stew, I'm a little late on the original video publishing, but after watching it I still have one question. I keep the boat in the Mediterranian and sea life is much less aggressive than Belize. When I haul the boat I find it always very clean, with no in-water mainainance at all. But the copper oxidation turns it green. I'm advised to scratch all the green and launch with solid red bottom. I've been doing this for 6 years and, apart from minor patches, the coating is lasting. Are you saying that I should leave the copper oxide on? Second question, if I don't sand it down to solid copper color, how will I know when the coating is wearing out? Last question for now: do I have ro sand it immediatly before launching, to prevent new oxidation? Thank you for the video and, in advance for you answers. Aureliano
Sounds like LuckyFish says it’s a great product; if I ever am lucky enough I’ll do the bottom of my Wharram with Coppercoat
Good morning Stew, Zaya and Leo!
Hey Robert, trust all well with you
@@SailingLuckyfish all good here. Morgan I looked at was a hurricane salvage boat the guy got from auction. We'll just leave it at that. LOL!
Nice to hear!
Your application seems to be so much better than mine had been.
It's worth noting that if it's very warm the coppercoat will quickly become sticky. Coppercoat told one customer to thin the mix with alcohol and I am sure it would have help in my case.
Also, often in SE Asia at least you will encounter very small rolls, eg 6 inch rolls -> refrain to go to the paint shop to get the big ones! I advise to stick with the small ones! For one they are used to work with them and two they allow for a better, more even copper distribution.
I hope one day I have that good a comment from my coppercoat bottom - for now my Tiki38 is getting old on the hard in Thailand, still has not been splashed after this major refit and we don't even know when we can go back to Thailand... :(
Hey Pat, I feel your pain mate, what a disaster the world is right now. Thankfully some parts are trending for the better so lets hope you get back to the boat soon. Particularly after all the solid work you've done!
I haven't any experience applying the CC in hot climates - but I can definitely see how that is another level of difficulty.
We had 4 on the job, me mixing, two guys rolling and the marina manager supervising the rollers and we were all running flat out until we got it all on. Temps were around 20C with a good breeze blowing. Like you say, if it was tropical then it would have got tacky very fast. In that case you probably need to double the number of guys rolling, maybe even more if you are using 6" rollers!
We are like you, stuck in Belize but at least we are with the boat which is big consolation. When will it all end???
Sailing Luckyfish to be honest my opinion is covid just getting started. Barring a breakthroughs in treatment or better yet vaccine and full equitable planet wide distribution this scourge is going to be around a while yet.
@David Francis unfortunately you maybe right! Announcement of a vaccine will be a big turnaround but they also have to deal with the anti-vaxers who seem to have got more wind in their sails at the present time
I am glad that CopperCoat worked out for you. Unfortunately is a total failure for me: boat located in Mexico. Should used Petite Trinidad...😟
very sorry to hear that.
I dont think that an anti fouling you have to "clean" every 2 weeks is a great success story. But this is just me....maybe somebody with catamaran could coppercoat one hull and leave the other bare . Otherwise all the testimonials are just that ...uncontrolled experiments
Hi Stew, copper seems the way to go.
How is Belize for living on your boat? I hear it’s beautiful but really hot n humid. Hopefully no hurricanes down there
Its hot and humid ashore but less so on board in the breeze
I have found if a thin coat of clear slime is allowed to get established on my fresh bottom paint it is like the slime that is found naturally on some fish and growth will not take hold. I my try copper coat. Thanks!
That's interesting, but not been my experience with ablatives. Perhaps it depends on what the slime is? The theory says otherwise also, i.e. they are supposed to slowly wear away exposing fresh biocide to work. But if its working for you thats great!
Stu, i cant understand that you need to sctochbrite scrub your coppercoat bottom every month to take the barnacles off. That sounds like very high maintainance. My ablative coating is not wiped and lasts the whole year until i get my yearly haulout for maintainance. It takes 1 hr to paint a new layer on my 30 ft boat and i am good for another year.
where is your boat stored and sailed?
@@SailingLuckyfish the Baltic sea, i know its not the same as the warm waters you are in but i cant see why one should pay so much for a product that ends with monthly scrubs like ither youtubechannels who used common ablative bottom paints.
@@75echo You cannot compare the Baltic Sea with tropical or warm waters. The salinity in the Baltic Sea ablates as you travel north into fresh water. There are also limitation to the type of antifouling allowed to be used in sections of the area. For your sailing Coppercoat would be an overkill and if you're using the low toxicity antifoulling the environmental impact would be low! Also the boat would be in the water for a few months a year normally.
Stu, I'm looking at your Coppercoat and the finish doesn't seem right. Now it might just be the look on the video, so apologies if Im not seeing it right, but below will also help new users to get the correct finish.
I did mine here in Oz 3 years ago on a power boat, sprayed it on, so its pretty smooth. The local dealer sent me a pdf of the correct finish before slipping. There should be no orange peel look, [sanded vs non sanded finish] as the non sanded part wont be working. He sent me soft brown scotch pads. The way it works, is that the soft pad follows the contour of the finish , just removing the epoxy covering the copper. ONLY a WHITE residue comes off, no copper is removed. [In our video the 400 is removing a copper as well] The pad will sand the shallow area of the orange peel finish, with out removing the bump, so you're not removing much coating at all. So the orange peel finish remains, but the epoxy is sanded off the peaks and valleys leaving a uniform matt finish.
That 400 while effective is removing a lot of material. having said that, once 'mirror' smooth, there will still be a lot of coating left. The finish needs to be matt to be fully effective.
As noted below in my reply to 'mr Sails', below, ours still needs regular cleaning if the boats not used, [after about 6 weeks], the ablative on the stern drives, Trilux, is fouled much worse [looks average after about 2 weeks, slime starts to grow in week]. The real test of growth is how much growth there is on the Propspeeded areas....a huge amount! The diver comments on how easily it cleans, but one year I left it 6 months and a very fine web like growth needs a good scrub. It comes off easily when slipped with a pressure wash.
In our bay, Port Phillip Bay, Victoria, Aust, one marina, has already banned cleaning inside the marina. This marina, Martha Cove, would have very little tidal flow of water, has a long narrow entrance, so anything scrubbed is not going anywhere and over years will build up- probably make no difference to water toxicity. You have to take the boat into the bay, around 5 - 10 minutes of motoring to clean and then take it back!
yes, I would prefer to not have the orange peel but that was the best finish we could get using rollers. didnt contemplate spraying it but good to know can be done that way. Would be preferred I think. Cheers!
I was really interested in using Coppercoat on my 30 foot Swanson monohull moored at the mouth of the Yarra River in Port Phillip Bay Melbourne Australia The yard manager at our club strongly advised against as it apparently was not successful in these waters possibly because of the eustarine water conditions. He thought it would be an expensive undercoat for conventional ant-fouling. Sadly I now have ablative anti-fouling.
he may be right. not the first time I have heard issues in fresh or brackish water. calcification was one issue someone had experience with
I heard all kinds of things about coppercoat,good and bad,also that its bad for the environment.As electrician I could not figure out what is bad about coppercoat when it mostly contains copper only,and even more in the water where it does not react with air much.
Also i saw Sailing Uma applying it and they are both architects,sailing "green" as much as possible,using solar and electric engine.
They like to do deep research normally about their boat projects and present very in depth information.
Thank for your long term review !
Yes, I dare say we will get some comments here about "copper toxicity on the environment" etc etc but we drink water from copper pipes so I dont understand that arguement. Copper solubility in fresh and salt water must be astonishingly small! Thanks for your great comment, Stew
@@SailingLuckyfish thats another strong point.Of course there are some other ingredients also,but still,it seems to stay on the hull,which is great.
Sailing Luckyfish medical doctor told me copper water pipes does affect us it somehow overwhelms uptake of other metals as micronutrients and means you need higher levels of others minerals to compensate.
My TH-cam channel is Sailing Wilson.
I enjoyed you post CC cleaning video
I’m on the Hardstand at Rebak Marina in Langkawi. I’m in the middle of doing my COPPER COAT application.
It has been interrupted by the wet monsoon season on a number of occasions. Checking the weather forecast is vitally important to making sure I get dry weather and that 48/72 hours cure time. Humidity is also important to avoid after a rainstorm.
Owning a catamaran, I have divided the job up into 4 sessions. Starboard and Port HULLS both inside and outside.
I also have the problem of 30 to 32° heat which makes it very difficult to get the copper coat on within even a 20 minute period. Using the recommended alcohol has been extremely important to solve the problem of it going off to quickly.
With the beginning of the wet monsoon season it has been challenging to say the least.
Hi Stew! I watched the earlier video you did about the application of the Coppercoat, and couldn't tell if the grey stuff you applied the the hull first was their barrier coat or some other system. Is the barrier coat that Coppercoat markets recommended for use on wood/fiberglass/epoxy hulls like the Wharrams?
I'm building a small demountable plywood/epoxy/fiberglass cruising catamaran designed by Richard Woods, and I need to decide on a bottom system. I've narrowed it down to a hard non-antifouling epoxy like Interlux VC Performance Epoxy and Coppercoat. The boat will live on a trailer most of the time, and spend no more than two or three weeks in the water at a time in areas of the West Coast of North America, like San Francisco Bay and the Pacific Northwest. Either system would work for that application. The Coppercoat may actually have an environmental advantage over the non-antifouling epoxy, since the copper stays on the hull rather than ablating off, and invasive zebra and quagga mussels that plague lakes and reservoirs here in California would not be able to live on a hull treated with it. Even if I miss a spot in cleaning, there's a much lower chance of transporting a live mussel to an otherwise uninfested lake. But, of course, Coppercoat is more expensive than the epoxy bottom coat.
Intergard 276 - used it as a tie coat as we didnt want to put the cc on a mixture of 2 pack substrates. Great comment, Cheers
@@SailingLuckyfish Thanks for the reply!
I understand your videos are delayed somewhat but looked like to me that you need to pull her out of the water and clean up the exposed wood and redo coppercoat on the bare wood. You can see how effective the coppercoat is for for sure. If you have not done so, what are your plans on pulling her out of the water for repairing the grounding damage?
Great question and yes I was concerned too all that time while in lockdown and unable to move the vessel. Stay tuned for the haulout and repair video coming shortly, cheers
Hi
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100
Too many ads
sorry mate, gotta keep the lights on though! have you thought about becoming a Patron? just a couple of bucks a month. Cheers
If a bottom paint has to be scrubbed every month.... The product is garbage.
The old TBT paint went 10 yrs with no scrubbing.
Shame on you for promoting this junk.
Junk? It's one of the most popular bottom coatings in the world. Take a walk around any hardstand and see. You are not seriously advocating TBT are you? It was banned in 2008.
That comment is way out of order and you should know the TBT is banned since any years! However it worked fine but killing the environment by slowly adding the toxin is not something you should be doing! Ref Wikipadia:
Tributyltin (TBT) is an umbrella term for a class of organotin compounds which contain the (C4H9)3Sn group, with a prominent example being tributyltin oxide.[1] For 40 years TBT was used as a biocide in anti-fouling paint, commonly known as bottom paint, applied to the hulls of ocean going vessels. Bottom paint improves ship performance and durability as it reduces the rate of biofouling (the growth of organisms on the ship's hull). The TBT slowly leaches out into the marine environment where it is highly toxic toward nontarget organisms. TBT is also an obesogen.[2] After it led to collapse of local populations of organisms, TBT was banned.[3]
Bottom paints only work if they have toxins in them. The same with insecticides that are sprayed on the food you eat.
Modern day bottom paints use oil based herbicides...... The same ones used on your food and the toxic effects of copper oxide.
..... Bottom paints are toxic....
TBT is used in military laundry soaps... Sprayed on wood products to preserve them... Used in house hold paints as an mold inhibitor and plethera of other uses.
I am highly skeptical about the environmental damage claims of TBT. Bottom paint companys loved it. Now they can sell us paint that doesn't last... At double the price.... That lasts 1/5 the time. Companies use government regulations to keep their monopolys.
So..... I use 46% copper oxide bottom paint, for a total of 69lbs of copper that goes in to the environment. 69lbs of toxic heavy metal. And I have to reapply every 2 yrs..... That's 345lbs of toxic heavy metals goes in to the environment over 10 yrs. The TBT bottom paint that lasts 10 yrs contains 4.5lbs of TBT.
How does this compare to the minimal amount of TBT?
345lbs of copper oxide and lots of herbicides or 4.5lbs of TBT?
@@sails3538 4,4lbs of TBT may well be far more toxic than your 345lbs of other, in fact Id bet on it! Why do you think it's ok to shed so much into the worlds waterways? If the alternative is regular cleaning vs regular poison, I know where Im going. At some point in time you need to decide which side of the fence you're going to stand on for our future. In nearly all anti foul tests, they all need cleaning. One area will be very different to another. Ive had regular ablative and now coppercoat. BOTH need cleaning, my drives with Trilux, foul faster than the coppercoat bottom. End of test.