Has our Coppercoat failed?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2021
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Our coppercoat peeled off the keel. We used a flap wheel and immediately cleaned with acetone followed by commercial primer as soon as the acetone evaporated. We then applied two coats of Seaforce 90 a/f. Two years later we pulled out the keel's a/f was still in good order and did not show any rust. So hopefully your flap wheel cleaning will do better than you expect.
Well hopefully. But I am not putting money on it :-) Sail Safe Guys, Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
I appreciate you putting all this together in one video. There have been a lot of videos on coppercoat failing, and it appears that the application and/or surface prep is mainly to blame. I will keep watching to see how long it lasts on the hull, and how long your latest keel work lasts.
Encapsulated ballast, long keels aren't as efficient, but the care needed on the iron, bolt on keels is definitely something to consider.
It's all about doing the job properly. Some companies do and some don't. Sail Safe mate. Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
Cast iron seems to be the issue. CC on the hull surface seems to exhibit a lot less trouble
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass because , unlike cast iron, it does not need to be left to dry out completely, then dry blasted, then immediately given a seal coat to prevent flash rusting - unless its an iron/steel/aluminium hull off course.
This will help a lot of Sailers to get the Job done correctly by doing the prep work as required then it will last a determined in the Specifications. great work guy's
Thank you. Good to see your enjoying our videos. Sail Safe . Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
Good tips and advice! I’m surprised with all the history and having it applied from brand new they all gave you the flick! This reminds me of the time I lifted out in Greece and replaced my seacocks. I did it all with proper preparation and workers on other boats around me came past cut to out a seacock, glued a new one in over the antifoul with no sanding, connected it back up and were gone in 15minutes. 🤯
Hence we dont let others work on our boat Ryan. Like that. Given the Flick LOL. Sail Safe mate. Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
@@SVImpavidus yeah I pissed myself laughing in your other video “typical engineer going over my work again”.. I love filming these adventures, I forget half the crap I say 🤣😂😆
Interesting video thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks for watching. Sail Safe Guys, Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
Thanks for all the info on cast iron keels. I shall not be going to Osmotech!
You bet! We gave them every opportunity to do the right thing. First they ignored us, then they blamed Coppercoat, inferred that our contract was not with them, then they hid behind warranty and finally; Up-Yours! Sail Safe mate. Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
I was lucky enough to observe the application of CC on Britican in Dec 2019. They had lots of problems with application errors.
When in Grenada the CEO of CopperCoat came over and helped applying the new coating.
From then on hardly any growth and half a knot of boat speed extra.
Yes. We have had correspondence with them. It is all down to the correct prep and application. Sail Safe mate. Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
@@SVImpavidus This really puts me off the coppercoat investment and to stick to AF paint instead.
@@pete9501 CC does work.... Its all down to the competence of the applicator. Thats something CC need to ensure they get right.
@@pete9501
I've gone the same way tbh. The recommended Contractor Route was clearly very risky, back in 2016, when I wanted CopperCoat for my last boat, so to buy the time needed to find a good Contractor, I opted for Pettit Trinidad Pro Hard Antifouling put on by a good Yard, instead. I have to have such work done for me due to Being Disabled, and now for my Next Boat, hopefully next year, I think it'll be back to Pettit Trinidad Pro Hard Again, it was highly satisfactory on my last boat tbh. With tlc, it can remain effective up to 7 years (regular cleaning needed by divers though, which adds up, though should be clean hull up to 3 years, then desliming). Still, 6 years later, the formulation may well not be that good still. 🤔
You sound like you know more than myself but i can recommend Norton Blaze discs for abrading, and Novol Epoxy primer, its very good stuff.
We are not familiar with either of those but will certainly take a look. Sail Safe mate. Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
This is bloody sad. ☹️ I really wanted CopperCoat on my Last Boat, and would really like it on my next boat as well, though could no longer do the Work Myself, due to being Sisabled but in 2016(last boat) on researching CopperCoat Antifouling, it Rapidly became Clear that getting a trustworthy reliable Contractor, was such a Gamble, for not low cost Antifouling was a Gamble with not exactly reassuring Odds of Success, not helped by the truly Outstanding Yard I had the boat fully prepped and serviced in, never having done a Coppercoat application. I'm retrospect, they had the facilities indoors to have the Boat in, and they were so Conscientious and skilled, I think they would have done a good job, however time was running short on my Visa, and I needed to clear USA Waters sooner rather than later. So I went with something that with care and tlc, could give up to 7 years reliable service Pettit Trinidad Pro Hard Antifouling, reckoning that would buy enough time to find somewhere that could apply Coppercoat Properly. It's rather disturbing, that 6 or so years later, it looks like I'm in exactly the same Predicament with my next Sailboat. To me, the buck stops with CopperCoat and their recommended Contractors need sorting out, withninly those Skilled enough and trustworthy enough able to make it onto their Recommended Contractors List. Any Chance of Suing them for Contributory Negligence and Failure of Professional Oversight, or failures along similar lines ? That may well be the kick up their Arse thatbthey need ? I did speak to them in the USA when there and they did seem very nice people with a great product, but they need to up their game to a much higher professional Standard Clearly. At some point in the Future, I would love to have CopperCoat on my Boat, but as of now, sadly I really can't take the risk - still. Looks like it's going to be Pettit Trinidad Pro Hard Antifouling Again. That Yard did do a cracking job on it, but it means Antifouling prior to Crossing the Atlantic just to get to them. Anyone know any skilled and Trustworthy Yards this side of the Atlantic or even in the Med, able to do the Work by any chance ? 🤔
We are just in the process of looking at a re-coat after 8 years. This spring we intend to do the work ourselves buying direct from Copper Coat. We agree Copper Coat need to get their house in order. Setting up a training scheeme and a robust QA system would be easy and pay for itself over and over. Unfortunatly it is not the way they want to do busness. We have never heard from them again despite the amount of views this and our other Coppercoat videos have made, where we are positive about the product but point out the pitfalls. Its a good product but lacks the QA to make it a great product. Thanks for watching. Sail Safe mate. Ant & Cid
Well put together video 👍👍
Thank you Andrew.
Well documented Sid
Thankyou
More companies need to be called out on their shitty work and poor warranty
Thanks for watching
I'm wondering if your keel is properly grounded to the anodes. As the keel does not appear to have anodes of its own, then internal wiring is needed to connect to anodes. As with all external metal parts, if they dont' have anodes of their own, then they must be connected to anodes elsewhere.
No the keel does not have any anodes none of the Bavaria's do. The issue here is bady applied Copper Coat by Coppercoats approved contractor. Since we did the job properly we have had no issues. Sail Safe mate. Ant & Cid
boatyards and dealers you have to beware of ,,, all they want is money and to get rid of the owner asap
Zackly! Sail Safe mate. Ant & Cid
Exactly the same situation on board CaSam Ant! Again all done from new through Clipper (Albeit the installer on my occasion was not OSMOTEC but another "Qualified and Certified" Copper Coat installer - based at the top of the Itchen :( ) Since then she has been done twice and the last time I have actually refused to put Coppercoat back onto the keel....opting this time for a very hard "wipeable" antifoul. It is a real shame though as just like Impavidus, the hull is still in great shape. There are many anecdotal comments out there but I do have a feeling that Bavaria themselves have a fair responsibility too though due to the quality of the keel in the first place.
Totally agree.
Not seeing the logic that this is actually a coppercoat product problem. My understanding is that the rust problem probably started before the coppercoat was re-applied. It may well be an applicator/preparation issue caused by the staff of an approved applicator but slamming the product as "failed" seems harsh. Hope your fix is working out.
Clearly you have missed some of the video or not got it. For the avoidance of doubt; Copper coat is a good product and we are very happy with it. However, the application in our case was supposedly made by their approved and trained operatives and then approved by their specialist. The work was not carried out in line with their own standards and the expected 10 year life was never achieved or warranted any longer than the 2 year warranty the applicators gave. Therefore the logic is that beyond two years Copper Coat has no backup as they do not stand behind their product when applied by those they approve and train. The product is fine if applied as per Copper coats very precise instructions, as we said in the video and as demonstrated by the areas applied correctly. This is in line with the findings of others that have the coating. Thanks for watching.
If I was coppercoat I would remove Osmotech from my approved contractors list. I think I detected restrained anger in your voice and understandably so.
I would call disappointment.... Sail Safe mate. Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
OK I did not realise the issue was just the keel - I thought you were redoing the lot, hence my previous comments about extra labour.
It is a very sad story, but one that has all too common themes.
You paid the Marina to do the work and they subcontracted the work. So from a legal perspective your (‘privacy of contract’) is entirely with them and from the get go they should have sorted this out.
The subcontractor did not have to deal with you at all.
Copper Coat bear a responsibility ( but not a contractual one) in approving the contractor and (a) not putting pressure on the company to remediate and (b) not delisting them.
All that said I have seen this sort of sh1t all my working life and battled against it too. It is my reason that I do everything (that I possibly can) myself, because then I know the quality of the work - although it probably takes me 3 or 4 times longer than what a ‘professional clock watcher’ would take. I certainly would not allow anyone to do anything to my motorcycle - my life depends on nothing going ‘TU’ while I am riding.
Sorry for the waffling - did you passivate the keel prior to priming?
As always Norman you are spot on! It is a sad reflection of the marine/engineering industry. When we get to have that beer I'll tell you about how Portsmouth motorcycles did a routine service on my Blackbird and crossed the fuel return and vent pipe! 15 ltrs of fuel came out the vent in 3 mins all over the back tyre and chain as I wound her up going up the A3(m). Then it dumped the rest of the tank on the drive while i opened the garage door!!!! Watch the next video to see the remedials mate. Sail Safe mate. Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
COPPER COAT...NO.
😁Bit harsh but, I dont think we would pay to have it done again.. Sail Safe mate. Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
2 years later and sadly Osmotech is still scamming customers, sad
It is a real shame. I dont think the guys that actually did the work were full time Osmotech. And here we are 9 years after they did the job discussing their reputation and workmanship. I would not recommend them not because of their workmanship but because of the way they deal with things when they go wrong. And things do go wrong sometimes. A good company deals with it in the right way. Thanks for watching enjoy some of our other 300 videos. Sail Safe mate. Ant & Cid
@@SVImpavidus I totally agree with you, what really makes me mad is, if companies try to weasel out of their responsibility.
Shit happens but if you weasel out that is the worst thing you can do.
It was not a large monetary issue to redo the coating the right way but they decided to wreck it a second time and then claim no warranty anymore.
These companies should be punished with no business anymore.
Doun to the yard
Dont use dummies
Precisely. It is a shame that Coppercoat approve these yards but take no responsibility for their workmanship. I would not have chosen this yard if I had the choice. But they were nominated by Bavaria/Clipper Marine. Sail Safe mate. Ant & Cid
I would let all boaters know this and let’s put copper coat out of business. They don’t stand behind and oversee their applicators and therefore allow shoddy applications. They are guilty by non action. I’m happy to put these kinds of attitudes out the door. Well done video
IMHO you need to watch the video again. they have stated on many occasions during the video that in their experience cooper coat works. and worked well for them when THEY applied it themselves.
It is the incorrect application that is the problem. If you expect every manufacturer of a product to provide a person to oversee every installation of their product - and to absorb that cost themselves - then good luck with getting your house painted or your bricks laid.
Its a good product, they should be more involved with their approved applicators after all it is their product and their reputation that is at risk.
try buying a boat with a lead keel..................
Bavaria (Farr design) dont make a lead keel in the long, performance keel version. Sail Safe mate. Ant & Cid
The problem is your boats design. Botl on keels and spade rudders are not blue water capable. I have an encapsulated keel and skeg hung rudder and Coppercoat has been great.
What utter rubbish! Wrong on so many levels.
@@SVImpavidus yeah you're right. Sorry to upset you.
my boat's coppercoat was applied circa 2017 (prior to my purchase) the keels have rusted through similar to yours - i got a quote for it to be media blasted (£600 - £1000) and ive decided i will remove it myself with a angle grinder like in your video.
Do you Know what primer they used??
This is what I've been advised by coppercoat;
In order to treat your keels you will need to grind them back to bare metal and then apply a two pack anti-corrosive epoxy resin which we can supply. You will need to apply three or four good coats of the primer, one coat a day for 3 or 4 days and then wait for a week for the solvent to evaporate out. After a week, the Coppercoat can then be applied. Mix and apply 1 litre of Coppercoat at a time, painting round and around the boat until all the supplied litres are used. You are likely to complete the treatment in approximately five thin coats. These should be applied consecutively (wet-on-tacky) in one day. All goods are supplied with application instructions and we are always available to answer any questions. To watch the demonstration video, click: coppercoat.com/coppercoat-info/videos
In terms of quantities, we supply the Hempel Light Primer in 0.75 litre units and 2.25 litre units. 1 X 2.25 litre units wont quite give you enough for 3/4 good coats so we suggest having one of each. The 0.75 litre unit is £35 and the 2.25 litre unit is £75, both plus VAT.
Regarding the Coppercoat you will need 1.5 litres of this @ £90 per litre plus VAT.
Primer = £110
Coppercoat = £135
Delivery = £15
Subtotal = £260
VAT = £52
Total = £312
This is as at September 2022 and they seem to emphasise the application of primer extensively
There is a company on the south coast that will do it for aroun £150. Less if you can get more than one boat that needs doing. They are called Symblast. If you use them tell them we recomended them after they did Renovatio a few years back. Sail Safe mate. Ant & Cid
The problem seems to clearly be the existence of a s t e e l keel which is vulnerable to rust due to water penetration and very difficult to seal. Seems to me it should be galvanized, hot dipped. Or it's really not an appropriate installation. And here we are blaming the copper when it's not the fault of the copper as we see on the rest of the boat. I wonder how other boats with this Keel installation have fared. A lot of boats use an iron keel with no problems such as the Cascades. I believe they're hot dipped and then bottom painted. I would probably apply a quarter inch layer of fiberglass mat with a very high quality resin after galvanizing or at least painting with zincromate
@@douglundy5755 my keels are iron mate
This is Bavaria's problem. They were the people who engaged the applicators. Simple. No question of warranty from those losers Osmotech. You didn't engage or pay them so go Bavaria. Bavaria will have to stand up
Very true. However, Bavaria only have an agent in the UK (Clipper Marine) They have no assets. Everything is leased or rented and the boats belong to either Bavaria Gmbh or the banks. They are members of the Marine industry federation in the UK but they will take no action against a member. Bavaria are based in Germany they quite literally have no business in the UK and no contract with their customers. Sail Safe mate. Ant & Cid