Hope he shows up in HOTD he is my favourite dragon. He represents both the greens and blacks and a cannibal is a represents in the Targaryen civil war even though a side wins not going to spoil but in the end everyone loses as the dragons go near extinct they essentially cannabilise themselves. The green fire is usually wild fire which represents madness and cruelty and Cannibal having that fire makes me think Cannibal is the hatch of Maegor the cruel and he rejected it as he wanted the biggest strongest dragon and he wouldn’t settle for a hatchling and maybe that is part of Cannibal’s unwillingness to bond with a rider.
the cannibal being a velaryon dragon is my favorite theory! when i read f&b the first time i found cannibal flying over corlys’ funeral curious and came to the same conclusion as you! so happy you’re covering it!!!
Absolutely inspired!! Since your tapestry video I've enjoyed the idea that Cannibal's lineage was long ago bonded to a rival Valyrian house that feuded and fought with Targaryens. She might just have primal hatred of everything Targ: their dragons, their eggs, their riders, their _hair_ If Seasmoke isn't descended from a Targ dragon lineage, couldn't we expect some instinctual antagonism to other Targ dragons? Maybe he takes his lead from Laenor. Or maybe the smoke of his name refers to Garth smoke and he's just super chill about stuff
Rickon, Shaggy Dog and the Cannibal were always my favorite parts of ASOIAF when I first started reading the books and I was pissed that we knew so little about any of them, these last few streams have been a blessing and I’m glad they’re finally getting some attention! now if we could just get a character analysis stream about the Hound and the sister Gregor supposedly killed (which is never talked about) I’d be able to die happy.
I took want to talk more about the Clegane daughter. Imo The Hounds relationship with Sansa makes more sense when you think about how the hound was once a kid who loved fariytales like bran and Sansa, and that he lost his sister. I think part of his harsh protective but also not healthy behavior stems from knowing how easily those dreams turn to nightmares and wants to scare Sansa straight.
I think dragons can live a bit longer than two hundred years, but just kinda grounded at that point. Vhagar is closing in on two centuries and she's absolutely massive and needs time and a lot of room to turn in the air. At the end of Aemond's first flight, she didn't just land on the ground, she SLAMMED down. At Rook's Rest it looked like simply getting up was taxing and a chore by itself. If he was never wounded, I think Balerion would've been the same. It was a wonder Viserys got him in the air at all. (The old injuries didn't exactly help) Now it's possible that this is just how the Targaryens' dragons end up at that age, so big and heavy that they simply don't want to move around anymore and are dependant on humans bringing them food. Other Valyrian families might've had dragons with either longer or shorter lifespans
Giving in to incest and cannibalism are 2 of the things mentioned that led to the fall of the GEotD. Maybe it is a clue that the Targaryens were wrong in their presumption that incest and "blood purity" were the proper way. They should have been marrying outside the family and introducing other bloodlines into the mix, like the Starks adding in bloodlines of Red Kings, Marsh Kings, Barrow Kings, and the Warg King during their conquest of the North.
I had a friend of mine talk about Luce, the new mascot for the Vatican, and I told them "Luce means light. Lucifer means light bringer." That one was for you, David.
He also became an unwelcome metaphor he wouldn't have appreciated (yes, I also anthropomorphize dragons): that his last ride was with Viserys on his back. And it didn't denote power or strength or potential but the coming end of the dragons for two hundred years. Like that sucks. ;) LOL
What if Sheepstealer is also from one of the maisons' and builders' dragons' lineage, and Cannibal was trying to "save" him/her/them from Targaryen riders??
Seasmoke is my favorite dragon. Man, these are some of the most interesting questions I rarely ever hear being addressed though admittedly there isn’t ample evidence for anything beyond speculation but we see evidence in the main story of symbolic dragons outside the Targaryen line, particularly the blackfyres
Getting this in my watch history for later. Good idea doing some HOTD/FAB lore this time around, especially a fearsome dragon. Perhaps even the most so. Besides Balerion the Dread and Vhagar the Old Nan of course. But being 3rd isn't bad sometimes
I love the theory of the Cannibal having a connection with the smallfolk living on dragonstone before the Targaryens especially! We are all victims of the ceaseless march of time, but at least we were all alive to experience A Song of Ice and Fire and South Park 🫶 Thanks for another awesome video!
At the end of the Rickon live stream you asked us to click the notification and watch your vids in the first few hours after they are posted...The North Remembers....
"I am a very North Remembereing TH-cam creator. You think I don't notice the views in the first few hours?" this is the AI-generated response YT recommended I give you and I thought it was really funny 😂 but yes thank you very much!!
Daemon indirectly mentioned the Cannibal in episode 10 of season 1 of House of the Dragon when referring to the "three wild dragons". (Even though Sheepstealer's location in the show was changed to the Vale.)
Isn't it possible that the reason so few dragons were born after Aenar and co came to Westeros is because the Doom was an example of magic weakening in the world of ice and fire, at least for a time, and thus may have affected the dragons as a result?
I Literally think about the ice Spiders vid at least once a week and idk how many times ive rewatched it, the other vids are also so so incredible! Vedic Dany is esp close to my heart❤
Love the new pad! This got me thinking that Dragonstone’s magnificent and strange fortifications would work as marketing as well as defence. A westerosi lord seeing it will have confidence the Valyrian sword being made for him will be similarly magical and mighty. It fits the sword brand.
Odd theory here. Some dinosaurs, such as the T-Rex, developed a sort of venomous bite that was caused by bacteria from rotting meat on their teeth. The bacteria would transmit to the bite victim, and if they lived long enough, would get infected. I wonder if the Cannibals green flame can be caused by this, with some sort of magical twist. Rotting dragon meat changes the colour/potency of fire? Pure speculation with nothing to back this, but the semi-dormant dinosaur nerd in me thought of it and I needed to share it
Aenar had 5 dragons when he went to Draginstone. Now he has 1. What happened to the other 4? Maybe, just maybe, Dragonstone wasn't empty when the Targaryens took it. Maybe they had a dance for it. Maybe that dance was multigenerational & that story was lost to time. The Cannibal would be the last remnant of that war.
@jgr7487 I think this is a super interesting idea! GRRM seems to like hiding very obscure civil war type conflicts in the pasts of the main houses. I've always wondered how/why there is only 1 mentioned Stark family at the start of Roberts Rebellion, except the centuries removed Karstarks
@@athiocordatus9572 I forgot that, good reminder. To me that is more evidence for some recent intra-Stark tussles, nothing ever happens in this story once 😂
@@dominic3797 ”Recent“ as in within the Starks of Winterfell? B/c the mermen took over the White Harbor after the Greystarks, and that was almost one thousand years before Aegon's Conquest. The fall of the Greystarks are only recent geologically speaking.
I think it was because the other Valyrian born dragons were all much older than Balarion when they moved to Dragonstone. The Cannibal is noted to usually avoid attacking adult dragons, so he probably wasn't responsible for their deaths. It's more likely the Targaryens simply struggled to keep their bigger dragons in good health without the resources and knowledge of Old Valyria.
Here is a theory concept: Drogon is said to be Balerion the Black Dread come again, but Balerion was never mentioned to have red wings or horns as Drogon does. Dany was also sometimes said to be Aegon the Conqueror reborn. 1. Question whether or not there is any validity to this. 2. Does the same hold true for her other dragons. Rhaegal is said to be the most vicious/violent of the three, although Drogon is the boldest. We never learn what Vhagar looks like in Fire & Blood, but her green scales from the show match up with Rhaegal's green. She even has bronzy wings. Viserion is the most laidback of the three and spends more time flying about than Rhaegal. They ate said to have gold eyes and white gold scales, Meraxes is referred to as the dragon of golden eyes and silver scales. These are obvious parralels. The question is if they are the literal reincarnations or just symbolically the heirs of the original conquerors. If so, would it not follow that the riders of Rhaegal and Viserion would be Visenya and Rhaenys come again? We are pretty sure Jon is one of the heads of the dragon, which one would he be? If Euron is the other, like in your theories, by forcefully claiming Viserion, would he be throwing everything out of balance?
I think Addam was able to claim seasmoke because of the dragons bond with Laenor. Seasmoke (I think) essentially said hey thats Laenor because Addam is his half brother and takes after him. So I believe Seasmoke was just finding the closest to his previous rider because of his disappearance.
@jman5432 (I'm sorry, this comment is way too long) I talked with someone else under David's video about Seasmoke and Laenor. David has already done videos talking about Valyrian blood magic and has theorized how they first tamed the dragons. If I remember correctly he brought up that different families might have had their own family of dragons and that one family will only be able to bond with their previous dragons' descendants. Meaning, a Targaryen would only be able to bond with a Targaryen dragon and not one from another family. I think this was a huge reason why they all practised incest to "keep the blood pure" because once you give someone else access to your nuke on wings it will eventually lead to conflict. While Rhaenys is a Targaryen, she's not actually 50% Targaryen just because her father was Prince Aemon. Technically, she has more Velaryon blood than anything. Rhaenys' mother was Jocelyn Baratheon, the daughter of Alyssa Velaryon. Her father Aemon was the son of Jaehaerys and Alysanne, and their mother was also Alyssa. (Yes, Aemon and Jocelyn were aunt and nephew). This makes her, by blood, half Velaryon, a quarter Targaryen and a quarter Baratheon (but she's only a Targaryen by name). Personally, I don't think Rhaenys brought any dragon keepers to Driftmark where Seasmoke has spent most of his life. She probably taught Laenor the dragon commands herself and made sure he properly bonded with Seasmoke. The Velaryons were not dragonriders but have married Targaryens plenty of times. At this point they're just one big family with two different names. It's not impossible that letting Seasmoke bond with Laenor led to some accidental blood magic that made the Velaryons unofficial dragonlords with their very own dragon, Seasmoke. Yeah, I make jokes about Seasmoke seeing Addam and going, "YOU SMELL LIKE LAENOR. I'M KEEPING YOU" like everyone else, but I honestly think only a Velaryon could've bonded with him
Another great video thanks dave! Love cannibals symbolism and maybe he lives so long because he is eating other dragons and stealing there "fire"/life essence... need more details on cannibal and shaggy dog ❤
This theory have a lot of symbolism too. A Black and GREEN dragon, eating the youngs of other Black and RED dragons, from another lineage/house, can be a mirror to the dance itself, where the greens and the blacks are Dragons (targeryens) of different lineages killing eachother. The greens have a Black end Green Dragon sigil and the blacks have a Black and Red Dragon sigil. They are "cannibalizing" eachother, their youngs are suffering the most and the result is less dragons.
One thing: in the medieval period, incest was finally made utterly taboo; cousins couldn't marry within certain degrees. The actual analogy re: Targaryen incest is from ancient times - the Ptolemies, for example.
Well incest exceptions were regularly made for royalty, same as we see in westeros, though not usually for siblings, royalty were marrying their cousins long after we realized it was detrimental to health and breeding.
The similarities and links between Rickon and The Cannibal are curious to say the less. Rickon has a black dire wolf with bright green eyes, he's the most rogue of all starks and also is in skaagos, an island full of cannibals. Sounds like a parallelism to me
Love the contrast of the black and red Targ dragons and the potential black and green rival Valyrian house. Very reminiscent of the Dance factions symbolically!
Thanks for including your speculation about Seasmoke - it's intriguing! I do hope somewhere down the line we get to learn more about Cannibal's origins and descendants 🤞
Cannibal: "Of course I burn people alive, you ain't cool unless you burn people alive!" Nanna Vhagar: "If burning people alive is cool, then I'm Myles Davis"
Jaw dropping theories! Cannibal coming from a different lineage makes so much sense. Considering the maesters knowing little to nothing about dragons, it's just like humans seeing sharks eating other fish - it looks like cannibalism but they're different species! The more I listen to your theories, the more I am convinced by the dragon lineage / blood sacrifice thing. (I was really skeptical before.) It fits into how house Targaryen wasn't considered powerful in Valyria... If dragon-bonding required sacrificing an entire person, it's unlikely that powerful, established families would even attempt it. I absolutely love the Seasmoke theory! It's unlikely that it would ever get confirmed or debunked, but it's believable world-building to me. The Cannibal-home-alone analogy is so funny... Imagine being left behind and becoming an absolute menace. It adds so much to the lore and makes dragons more creature than gods.
Hey David, when you were talking about the food containing the power in 7:05, it reminded me of the difference between cannibalism and anthropophagy. Here in Brazil we study this in literature classes (since anthropophagy had its cultural comeback between the 19th and 20th century) and the main difference to cannibalism is its inherent religious/symbolic intents. Although its very dated (and ofc kinda rac1st), I'd recommend to you the poem "i-juca pirama" from Goncalves Dias (1851), for it has also some interesting symbols. Idk if george would dive into anthropophagy, but considering Varamyr's accounts and even the "jojen paste", i think its worth the shot. Also, great video as always, thanks so much for your content!
To add to your ideas! 1) if there was a mini-war between the different dragons on Dragonstone, and then things got better (since more dragons came along, and not all of them born in Kingslanding) it might have to do with Targaryens marrying Velaryons. If Velaryons already had some blood from the Valerians who were there before, then they would be adding that blood to the Targaryen line. Perhaps that would allow them to tame some of the other possible dragons from before the conquest (or any other of the Cannibals offspring). That might explain why Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys were able to focus back on the conquest of Westeros: they now had the blood to tame ALL the dragons on Dragonstone. Maybe the Cannibal was just too old and nasty at that point to not remember to try to eat those foreign dragons. Like any grandparents can be when their kids marry folks they don't agree with. 2) similarly, the cannibal would not need to be a female to have sired eggs on other dragons! If Targaryens were able to tame the other non-Targ dragons, then they might be willing to breed with the Targaryen dragons. Then those mixed dragons could have eggs, or have eggs with the Cannibal 3) maybe the Cannibal flew over Corlys hoping for another snack then thought better of it, lol Oh, and, love that the Cannibal is like Shaggydog when I thought it was curious that the other unclaimed dragon is Grey Ghost (like Jon's Ghost)!
Loved the video & does the Cannibal's behaviour mean that whomever's soul was fused with the Cannibal is someone who is against the Targaryens? This person knew of the terrible plot by the Targaryens & fused with his dragon to get away early?
It's incredibly logical, given the theory that the different Valyrian households held control over different lineages of dragons, that Cannibal is from one of these other lineages. I especially like to consider the fact that black dragons are particularly regarded as dragons bred for war and conquest. Each family would then, in theory, have at least a couple of black dragons to bolster their house's sense of power and link to Valeryian culture. Could it be that the various dragon families have black dragons with distinctive flame colours to distinguish them? Remember the Great Empire of the Dawn, with their Pearl, Jade, Tourmaline, Onyx, Topaz, Opal, Amethyst and Bloodstone emperors.
The seasmoke theory is heartwarming especially if you consider the implication of the cannibal being emotionally intelligent enough to let their child do as they please, and it does certainly seem like the dragons are far more intelligent then "beasts".
I don't comment on any app usually, but this lovable guy puts me to sleep almost every night with his fantastic streams. So here's a like and comment. Praise
Of course, the question that hasn't been addressed (as far as I know) is who exactly were the pre-Targaryen Valerians on Dragonstone? Was Dragonstone an unpopular "provincial" backwater, and Aenor made them a deal to swap places, or was there conflict between the two houses, and if so, why isn't it recorded in Fire and Blood? I suspect the reason why GRRM put The Cannibal into the story is to prevent the Targaryens from being too overpowered. He needed Aegon's invasion force to be a winner, but not so much that there was no conflict. Then he probably did the maths and realised that he needed some "throttling" factor on dragon breeding in order to end up with a low enough number of dragons by the start of The Dance that it could credibly wipe them all out.
Rickon Stark being a greenseer and/or skinchanger with Shaggydog and ending up riding the Cannibal in a Nettlesesque situation would be kind of insane & ik it's likely not gonna happen but it's a cool scenario, especially with the black scales/fur and green eyes and Rickon himself being batshit insane (and traumatized) from a very young age and he's now on Skagos the supposed island of the old gods, cannibalism and unicorns with Osha and the theory where the Cannibal lives on Skagos after running out of food supply after the dance of the dragons, especially during the second dance of the dragons and like last time not choosing either Aegon VI or Daenerys I like he/she didn't choose Aegon II or Rhaenyra I is a really cool concept I ride w/.
Love your content as always! I hope to become a squisher next month :) I think GRRM also mentioned that he based the direct familial marriages on ancient Egyptian, Assyrian, and other ancient fertile crescent cultures. These cultures also widely practiced polygamy. It would be interesting to think about Valyrian family structures and marriage customs. Perhaps a Valyrian lord or emperor would have a sister as Chief Wife and then various other lesser wives for political reasons, like the Egyptian pharaohs. Since Valyria is also modeled after ancient Rome and Greece, it would be interesting to consider that they might've granted divorces like the Romans and Greeks did (& also the ancient Eqyptians + Assyrians. Hammurabi's Code even has divorce laws and proceedings in it.) I would watch the hell out of an ancient Valyrian Divorce Court TV show, it would be better than that Blood Moon disaster. Dragon custody battles would be vicious.
Question: Why would the pre-conquest Targaryens leave the Cannibal to survive for nearly more than 100 years? Aenar arrived on Dragonstone with 5 dragons, he could have had his kin gang up on him and killed The Cannibal. The dragon threatened their own dragon lineage. Why didn't they do so? I think it's more likely that Cannibal hatched with the same clutch as Dreamfyre, at around 32 AC, and only began devouring other dragons in late 50's or early 60's AC. By this time, Jaehaerys had already completed the Dragonpit, and he could breed dragons comfortably there. This is also supported by the fact that Vermithor is confirmed in the lore to be the largest dragon in the world after Balerion and Vhagar. If Cannibal had lived for more than 200 years, he would be as large if not larger than Balerion
I've always kind of thought what if Cannibal was once Prince Viserys' (Aenys son) dragon and was left hostage there by Visenya when he was sent to King's Landing to be Maegor's squire. Perhaps that bond from feeling Viserys be tortured until his death by his own uncle affected the Cannibal and is why he won't take a rider and eats his own kind. ❤️🩹
What I find interesting is that the Cannibal could be used as a device to explain to readers what happens during Dance of the Dragons. Cannibal could represent the Greens with its green-tinged flames and eyes. What does it seem to like to do? Eat/Kill (Targaryen/Blacks) dragons and their eggs. I don't think we get what happens to Cannibal exactly, but it seems to fly off after most of the Targaryen dragons are wiped out. Kind of like "My job here is done." And yes, for the most part the Greens (House Hightower specifically) survive and don't fade into memory I still think its an apt parallel between the dragons and the fight between the Greens and Blacks.
The Cannibal is my “I can fix her!” in dragon form ETA: the idea of young Corlys claiming the cannibal is a fun one because then we have Rhaenys Targaryen with Meleys marrying Corlys Velaryon on the Cannibal. Whoop, guess she becomes Queen 😂
@@DavidLightbringer Just with the straight brother-sister-why go down the tree when you can go down the hall-style, and proclaiming divinity instead of divinely appointed right kinda deal. Far be it from me to quibble over the intricacies of dynastic inbreedings!! So many families, so little time...
I suspect Cannibal suffers from Wendigo Psychosis, they act more human than most animals and creatures in the story. And eating Targaryen bastards and other Valyrian ancestry eases that madness.
Do you think dragon ptsd is a thing? Another cannibalistic dragon is Sunfyre and seeing as Sunfyre had the personality more akin to a golden retriever to then being a ferocious fighter with cannibalistic tendencies after being betrayed by Vermithor makes me wonder if dragon ptsd is a thing. If it is perhaps that might clue us in on the Cannibals back story
I don't like the idea that the Cannibal is a Velaryon dragon. As mentioned right before, the Targaryens and the Velaryons have intermarried many times, the better documented cases adding Velaryon blood to the Targaryen family (Alyssa Velaryon, Vaelaena Velaryon), so it would be very hard to explain why the Targaryens couldn't tame the Cannibal then or why no other Velaryon ever bonded with a dragon or why The Cannibal singled out Corlys.
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | Survival Stage วันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FVFT-PFwU80/mqdefault.jpg)
Hope he shows up in HOTD he is my favourite dragon. He represents both the greens and blacks and a cannibal is a represents in the Targaryen civil war even though a side wins not going to spoil but in the end everyone loses as the dragons go near extinct they essentially cannabilise themselves. The green fire is usually wild fire which represents madness and cruelty and Cannibal having that fire makes me think Cannibal is the hatch of Maegor the cruel and he rejected it as he wanted the biggest strongest dragon and he wouldn’t settle for a hatchling and maybe that is part of Cannibal’s unwillingness to bond with a rider.
It seems so clear now. Really good insight!
The Dragon has three heads...each one tearing a chunk out of Westeros and consuming it in...fire and blood..
The real Jon Snow cooking with the flames of Azor Ahai 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
yeah i like that about the black and green factions cannibalizing themselves, makes sense. I don't think he has anything to do with maegor tho
@@DavidLightbringerI agree
the cannibal being a velaryon dragon is my favorite theory! when i read f&b the first time i found cannibal flying over corlys’ funeral curious and came to the same conclusion as you! so happy you’re covering it!!!
Absolutely inspired!! Since your tapestry video I've enjoyed the idea that Cannibal's lineage was long ago bonded to a rival Valyrian house that feuded and fought with Targaryens. She might just have primal hatred of everything Targ: their dragons, their eggs, their riders, their _hair_
If Seasmoke isn't descended from a Targ dragon lineage, couldn't we expect some instinctual antagonism to other Targ dragons? Maybe he takes his lead from Laenor. Or maybe the smoke of his name refers to Garth smoke and he's just super chill about stuff
Rickon, Shaggy Dog and the Cannibal were always my favorite parts of ASOIAF when I first started reading the books and I was pissed that we knew so little about any of them, these last few streams have been a blessing and I’m glad they’re finally getting some attention! now if we could just get a character analysis stream about the Hound and the sister Gregor supposedly killed (which is never talked about) I’d be able to die happy.
Hound character stream is on the list actually!
I took want to talk more about the Clegane daughter.
Imo The Hounds relationship with Sansa makes more sense when you think about how the hound was once a kid who loved fariytales like bran and Sansa, and that he lost his sister.
I think part of his harsh protective but also not healthy behavior stems from knowing how easily those dreams turn to nightmares and wants to scare Sansa straight.
I think dragons can live a bit longer than two hundred years, but just kinda grounded at that point. Vhagar is closing in on two centuries and she's absolutely massive and needs time and a lot of room to turn in the air. At the end of Aemond's first flight, she didn't just land on the ground, she SLAMMED down. At Rook's Rest it looked like simply getting up was taxing and a chore by itself.
If he was never wounded, I think Balerion would've been the same. It was a wonder Viserys got him in the air at all. (The old injuries didn't exactly help)
Now it's possible that this is just how the Targaryens' dragons end up at that age, so big and heavy that they simply don't want to move around anymore and are dependant on humans bringing them food.
Other Valyrian families might've had dragons with either longer or shorter lifespans
Giving in to incest and cannibalism are 2 of the things mentioned that led to the fall of the GEotD. Maybe it is a clue that the Targaryens were wrong in their presumption that incest and "blood purity" were the proper way. They should have been marrying outside the family and introducing other bloodlines into the mix, like the Starks adding in bloodlines of Red Kings, Marsh Kings, Barrow Kings, and the Warg King during their conquest of the North.
I don't remember any Starks marrying Boltons
I had a friend of mine talk about Luce, the new mascot for the Vatican, and I told them "Luce means light. Lucifer means light bringer." That one was for you, David.
hehehhe
I’m shook that the Vatican has a mascot cause isn’t it god 🫠
Can we talk about how my boy Balerion went through it all his life. Bro lost all his “wives “, friends, and riders all while being an old man😭
He also became an unwelcome metaphor he wouldn't have appreciated (yes, I also anthropomorphize dragons): that his last ride was with Viserys on his back. And it didn't denote power or strength or potential but the coming end of the dragons for two hundred years. Like that sucks. ;) LOL
I personaly like the idea that Cannibal could be a shadow lands dragon mainly because of vibes. It probably isn't true, but it's cool
Tbh I love vibes only headcanons. I love crackpot theories and tin foil hat shit.
What if Sheepstealer is also from one of the maisons' and builders' dragons' lineage, and Cannibal was trying to "save" him/her/them from Targaryen riders??
And Nettles is not actually a Targaryen bastard, but a bastard from the line of those earlier Targaryens?
you're right that this is possible
*Valyrians
Just caught up on your last month of videos, and then THIS pops up on a rainy day of driving? Incredible. The vibes are immaculate.
Seasmoke is my favorite dragon. Man, these are some of the most interesting questions I rarely ever hear being addressed though admittedly there isn’t ample evidence for anything beyond speculation but we see evidence in the main story of symbolic dragons outside the Targaryen line, particularly the blackfyres
Great video! Also the little clip of you on your stair rail KILL ME❤❤ thanks for always giving me a good laugh during tough times
hahah thank you Alonna!! always nice to see you around online :)
Cannibal is no match for the Pink Dread.
Getting this in my watch history for later. Good idea doing some HOTD/FAB lore this time around, especially a fearsome dragon. Perhaps even the most so. Besides Balerion the Dread and Vhagar the Old Nan of course. But being 3rd isn't bad sometimes
My theory is that Cannibal eats dragons to prolong his lifespan.
Canniball bathes himself in the blood of others, like Sheera Seestar? Cannibal is Shiera confirmed.
I have always wondered about different types of dragons and you are the only one really covering it. Thanks man and praise Garth!!
I love the theory of the Cannibal having a connection with the smallfolk living on dragonstone before the Targaryens especially! We are all victims of the ceaseless march of time, but at least we were all alive to experience A Song of Ice and Fire and South Park 🫶 Thanks for another awesome video!
25:28 it’s ok Dave we all feel old now 😂 much love Uncle Lightbringer
This is too good today, got my Garth really Garthing. Thanks Dave!
Neon industrial townhouse, love it.
At the end of the Rickon live stream you asked us to click the notification and watch your vids in the first few hours after they are posted...The North Remembers....
"I am a very North Remembereing TH-cam creator. You think I don't notice the views in the first few hours?"
this is the AI-generated response YT recommended I give you and I thought it was really funny 😂 but yes thank you very much!!
Just finished listening to much of Robin Hobb's Farseer series, in which dragons consume dead dragons and beloved humans to keep their memories alive
Daemon indirectly mentioned the Cannibal in episode 10 of season 1 of House of the Dragon when referring to the "three wild dragons". (Even though Sheepstealer's location in the show was changed to the Vale.)
YES he mentions the 3 wild dragon's but not by name
Truly one of the best Ice and Fire Channels on the web, keep posting bangers.
Isn't it possible that the reason so few dragons were born after Aenar and co came to Westeros is because the Doom was an example of magic weakening in the world of ice and fire, at least for a time, and thus may have affected the dragons as a result?
maybe? But if the dragons do better on Dragonstone, why only two born over 112 years, and then the very next hundred years, 20?
fantastic work! 👏👏 🌳 ☄️ ❄️
This goes into the pantheon of firewights, ice spiders, and Vedic Dany
I Literally think about the ice Spiders vid at least once a week and idk how many times ive rewatched it, the other vids are also so so incredible! Vedic Dany is esp close to my heart❤
Love the new pad!
This got me thinking that Dragonstone’s magnificent and strange fortifications would work as marketing as well as defence. A westerosi lord seeing it will have confidence the Valyrian sword being made for him will be similarly magical and mighty. It fits the sword brand.
hahaha great point!
Cannibal is the reason the dragon keepers have an extra large pole option… probably
Odd theory here. Some dinosaurs, such as the T-Rex, developed a sort of venomous bite that was caused by bacteria from rotting meat on their teeth. The bacteria would transmit to the bite victim, and if they lived long enough, would get infected.
I wonder if the Cannibals green flame can be caused by this, with some sort of magical twist. Rotting dragon meat changes the colour/potency of fire?
Pure speculation with nothing to back this, but the semi-dormant dinosaur nerd in me thought of it and I needed to share it
For all intents and purposes the septic bite theory is old and not at all plausible with our current understanding of dinosaurs
Aenar had 5 dragons when he went to Draginstone. Now he has 1. What happened to the other 4?
Maybe, just maybe, Dragonstone wasn't empty when the Targaryens took it. Maybe they had a dance for it. Maybe that dance was multigenerational & that story was lost to time.
The Cannibal would be the last remnant of that war.
@jgr7487 I think this is a super interesting idea! GRRM seems to like hiding very obscure civil war type conflicts in the pasts of the main houses. I've always wondered how/why there is only 1 mentioned Stark family at the start of Roberts Rebellion, except the centuries removed Karstarks
@@dominic3797 There are also the Greystarks extinguished by the Starks though.
@@athiocordatus9572 I forgot that, good reminder. To me that is more evidence for some recent intra-Stark tussles, nothing ever happens in this story once 😂
@@dominic3797 ”Recent“ as in within the Starks of Winterfell? B/c the mermen took over the White Harbor after the Greystarks, and that was almost one thousand years before Aegon's Conquest. The fall of the Greystarks are only recent geologically speaking.
I think it was because the other Valyrian born dragons were all much older than Balarion when they moved to Dragonstone. The Cannibal is noted to usually avoid attacking adult dragons, so he probably wasn't responsible for their deaths. It's more likely the Targaryens simply struggled to keep their bigger dragons in good health without the resources and knowledge of Old Valyria.
Here is a theory concept: Drogon is said to be Balerion the Black Dread come again, but Balerion was never mentioned to have red wings or horns as Drogon does.
Dany was also sometimes said to be Aegon the Conqueror reborn.
1. Question whether or not there is any validity to this.
2. Does the same hold true for her other dragons.
Rhaegal is said to be the most vicious/violent of the three, although Drogon is the boldest. We never learn what Vhagar looks like in Fire & Blood, but her green scales from the show match up with Rhaegal's green. She even has bronzy wings.
Viserion is the most laidback of the three and spends more time flying about than Rhaegal. They ate said to have gold eyes and white gold scales, Meraxes is referred to as the dragon of golden eyes and silver scales.
These are obvious parralels. The question is if they are the literal reincarnations or just symbolically the heirs of the original conquerors.
If so, would it not follow that the riders of Rhaegal and Viserion would be Visenya and Rhaenys come again? We are pretty sure Jon is one of the heads of the dragon, which one would he be?
If Euron is the other, like in your theories, by forcefully claiming Viserion, would he be throwing everything out of balance?
i don't tend to think Martin is doing any literal reincarnation, so there are more like echoes in time.
I think Addam was able to claim seasmoke because of the dragons bond with Laenor. Seasmoke (I think) essentially said hey thats Laenor because Addam is his half brother and takes after him. So I believe Seasmoke was just finding the closest to his previous rider because of his disappearance.
Tbh I think Rhaenys and Laenor did some accidental Valyrian magical hokus pokus and turned Seasmoke into House Velaryon's personal dragon
@ that’s very interesting to think about! Could you elaborate if possible?
@jman5432 (I'm sorry, this comment is way too long) I talked with someone else under David's video about Seasmoke and Laenor. David has already done videos talking about Valyrian blood magic and has theorized how they first tamed the dragons. If I remember correctly he brought up that different families might have had their own family of dragons and that one family will only be able to bond with their previous dragons' descendants.
Meaning, a Targaryen would only be able to bond with a Targaryen dragon and not one from another family. I think this was a huge reason why they all practised incest to "keep the blood pure" because once you give someone else access to your nuke on wings it will eventually lead to conflict.
While Rhaenys is a Targaryen, she's not actually 50% Targaryen just because her father was Prince Aemon. Technically, she has more Velaryon blood than anything.
Rhaenys' mother was Jocelyn Baratheon, the daughter of Alyssa Velaryon. Her father Aemon was the son of Jaehaerys and Alysanne, and their mother was also Alyssa. (Yes, Aemon and Jocelyn were aunt and nephew). This makes her, by blood, half Velaryon, a quarter Targaryen and a quarter Baratheon (but she's only a Targaryen by name).
Personally, I don't think Rhaenys brought any dragon keepers to Driftmark where Seasmoke has spent most of his life. She probably taught Laenor the dragon commands herself and made sure he properly bonded with Seasmoke.
The Velaryons were not dragonriders but have married Targaryens plenty of times. At this point they're just one big family with two different names. It's not impossible that letting Seasmoke bond with Laenor led to some accidental blood magic that made the Velaryons unofficial dragonlords with their very own dragon, Seasmoke.
Yeah, I make jokes about Seasmoke seeing Addam and going, "YOU SMELL LIKE LAENOR. I'M KEEPING YOU" like everyone else, but I honestly think only a Velaryon could've bonded with him
Another great video thanks dave! Love cannibals symbolism and maybe he lives so long because he is eating other dragons and stealing there "fire"/life essence... need more details on cannibal and shaggy dog ❤
This theory have a lot of symbolism too. A Black and GREEN dragon, eating the youngs of other Black and RED dragons, from another lineage/house, can be a mirror to the dance itself, where the greens and the blacks are Dragons (targeryens) of different lineages killing eachother. The greens have a Black end Green Dragon sigil and the blacks have a Black and Red Dragon sigil. They are "cannibalizing" eachother, their youngs are suffering the most and the result is less dragons.
well said!!
How many dragons does it take to screw in a lighbulb? NONE! Dragons are not afraid of the dark...
The famous Chewbacca defense!
Hope we get to see cannibal in the show one day!
You always answer the questions I thought about but was too lazy to research. Thanks!
Dave! Looking clean, like the new office! Love that the background fits the Cannibal's aesthetic.
i'm here dancing in my seat with this new intro every time!
I like the warehouse style background! I have watched a lot of your wonderful content and the change up is a nice touch 🎉🎉
in name alone, this dragon is low key the coolest. Such mystique! another great video lightbringer 🤙🏽
One thing: in the medieval period, incest was finally made utterly taboo; cousins couldn't marry within certain degrees. The actual analogy re: Targaryen incest is from ancient times - the Ptolemies, for example.
Habsburgs: Allow us to introduce ourselves.
Well incest exceptions were regularly made for royalty, same as we see in westeros, though not usually for siblings, royalty were marrying their cousins long after we realized it was detrimental to health and breeding.
The similarities and links between Rickon and The Cannibal are curious to say the less. Rickon has a black dire wolf with bright green eyes, he's the most rogue of all starks and also is in skaagos, an island full of cannibals. Sounds like a parallelism to me
we talked about it on the Rickon livestream last week!
LETSS GO! I’ve been saving a nice cannibal meal to watch this cannibal video
😶😶😶
Love the contrast of the black and red Targ dragons and the potential black and green rival Valyrian house. Very reminiscent of the Dance factions symbolically!
Thanks for including your speculation about Seasmoke - it's intriguing! I do hope somewhere down the line we get to learn more about Cannibal's origins and descendants 🤞
Cannibal: "Of course I burn people alive, you ain't cool unless you burn people alive!" Nanna Vhagar: "If burning people alive is cool, then I'm Myles Davis"
Praise be to Garth on High!
Congrats on the new crip, and cool Cannibal
Keep up the good commissions, commander
: )
Jaw dropping theories! Cannibal coming from a different lineage makes so much sense. Considering the maesters knowing little to nothing about dragons, it's just like humans seeing sharks eating other fish - it looks like cannibalism but they're different species!
The more I listen to your theories, the more I am convinced by the dragon lineage / blood sacrifice thing. (I was really skeptical before.) It fits into how house Targaryen wasn't considered powerful in Valyria... If dragon-bonding required sacrificing an entire person, it's unlikely that powerful, established families would even attempt it.
I absolutely love the Seasmoke theory! It's unlikely that it would ever get confirmed or debunked, but it's believable world-building to me. The Cannibal-home-alone analogy is so funny... Imagine being left behind and becoming an absolute menace. It adds so much to the lore and makes dragons more creature than gods.
Hey David, when you were talking about the food containing the power in 7:05, it reminded me of the difference between cannibalism and anthropophagy. Here in Brazil we study this in literature classes (since anthropophagy had its cultural comeback between the 19th and 20th century) and the main difference to cannibalism is its inherent religious/symbolic intents. Although its very dated (and ofc kinda rac1st), I'd recommend to you the poem "i-juca pirama" from Goncalves Dias (1851), for it has also some interesting symbols. Idk if george would dive into anthropophagy, but considering Varamyr's accounts and even the "jojen paste", i think its worth the shot. Also, great video as always, thanks so much for your content!
To add to your ideas!
1) if there was a mini-war between the different dragons on Dragonstone, and then things got better (since more dragons came along, and not all of them born in Kingslanding) it might have to do with Targaryens marrying Velaryons. If Velaryons already had some blood from the Valerians who were there before, then they would be adding that blood to the Targaryen line. Perhaps that would allow them to tame some of the other possible dragons from before the conquest (or any other of the Cannibals offspring). That might explain why Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys were able to focus back on the conquest of Westeros: they now had the blood to tame ALL the dragons on Dragonstone. Maybe the Cannibal was just too old and nasty at that point to not remember to try to eat those foreign dragons. Like any grandparents can be when their kids marry folks they don't agree with.
2) similarly, the cannibal would not need to be a female to have sired eggs on other dragons! If Targaryens were able to tame the other non-Targ dragons, then they might be willing to breed with the Targaryen dragons. Then those mixed dragons could have eggs, or have eggs with the Cannibal
3) maybe the Cannibal flew over Corlys hoping for another snack then thought better of it, lol
Oh, and, love that the Cannibal is like Shaggydog when I thought it was curious that the other unclaimed dragon is Grey Ghost (like Jon's Ghost)!
Loved the video & does the Cannibal's behaviour mean that whomever's soul was fused with the Cannibal is someone who is against the Targaryens? This person knew of the terrible plot by the Targaryens & fused with his dragon to get away early?
The knowledge that goes into these videos is unmatched 💯
Not to mention the jokes that come with it 😅
It's incredibly logical, given the theory that the different Valyrian households held control over different lineages of dragons, that Cannibal is from one of these other lineages. I especially like to consider the fact that black dragons are particularly regarded as dragons bred for war and conquest. Each family would then, in theory, have at least a couple of black dragons to bolster their house's sense of power and link to Valeryian culture. Could it be that the various dragon families have black dragons with distinctive flame colours to distinguish them? Remember the Great Empire of the Dawn, with their Pearl, Jade, Tourmaline, Onyx, Topaz, Opal, Amethyst and Bloodstone emperors.
The Cannibal is my favorite dragon of all ASOIAF series. Really hope to see him at some point in the show, although I doubt it
Dope new Pad, gotta unpack all the decor to match the old vibe
The seasmoke theory is heartwarming especially if you consider the implication of the cannibal being emotionally intelligent enough to let their child do as they please, and it does certainly seem like the dragons are far more intelligent then "beasts".
I don't comment on any app usually, but this lovable guy puts me to sleep almost every night with his fantastic streams. So here's a like and comment. Praise
Praise Garth!
I’ve never thought of it as The Cannibal. It’s just Cannibal.
that's how it's written in Fire and Blood
🤘😆🤘Lightbringer talking dragons!!! 🐉 💖✨ Thank you David!
I want a house cannibal T-shirt but with one head
Of course, the question that hasn't been addressed (as far as I know) is who exactly were the pre-Targaryen Valerians on Dragonstone? Was Dragonstone an unpopular "provincial" backwater, and Aenor made them a deal to swap places, or was there conflict between the two houses, and if so, why isn't it recorded in Fire and Blood?
I suspect the reason why GRRM put The Cannibal into the story is to prevent the Targaryens from being too overpowered. He needed Aegon's invasion force to be a winner, but not so much that there was no conflict. Then he probably did the maths and realised that he needed some "throttling" factor on dragon breeding in order to end up with a low enough number of dragons by the start of The Dance that it could credibly wipe them all out.
Love your take on this awesome dragon. Great video.
Nice! Fresh new theory from Uncle Lightbringer!
Rickon Stark being a greenseer and/or skinchanger with Shaggydog and ending up riding the Cannibal in a Nettlesesque situation would be kind of insane & ik it's likely not gonna happen but it's a cool scenario, especially with the black scales/fur and green eyes and Rickon himself being batshit insane (and traumatized) from a very young age and he's now on Skagos the supposed island of the old gods, cannibalism and unicorns with Osha and the theory where the Cannibal lives on Skagos after running out of food supply after the dance of the dragons, especially during the second dance of the dragons and like last time not choosing either Aegon VI or Daenerys I like he/she didn't choose Aegon II or Rhaenyra I is a really cool concept I ride w/.
Love your content as always! I hope to become a squisher next month :) I think GRRM also mentioned that he based the direct familial marriages on ancient Egyptian, Assyrian, and other ancient fertile crescent cultures. These cultures also widely practiced polygamy. It would be interesting to think about Valyrian family structures and marriage customs. Perhaps a Valyrian lord or emperor would have a sister as Chief Wife and then various other lesser wives for political reasons, like the Egyptian pharaohs.
Since Valyria is also modeled after ancient Rome and Greece, it would be interesting to consider that they might've granted divorces like the Romans and Greeks did (& also the ancient Eqyptians + Assyrians. Hammurabi's Code even has divorce laws and proceedings in it.) I would watch the hell out of an ancient Valyrian Divorce Court TV show, it would be better than that Blood Moon disaster. Dragon custody battles would be vicious.
Cool video and perfect for rn for work
Question:
Why would the pre-conquest Targaryens leave the Cannibal to survive for nearly more than 100 years? Aenar arrived on Dragonstone with 5 dragons, he could have had his kin gang up on him and killed The Cannibal. The dragon threatened their own dragon lineage. Why didn't they do so?
I think it's more likely that Cannibal hatched with the same clutch as Dreamfyre, at around 32 AC, and only began devouring other dragons in late 50's or early 60's AC. By this time, Jaehaerys had already completed the Dragonpit, and he could breed dragons comfortably there.
This is also supported by the fact that Vermithor is confirmed in the lore to be the largest dragon in the world after Balerion and Vhagar. If Cannibal had lived for more than 200 years, he would be as large if not larger than Balerion
I've always kind of thought what if Cannibal was once Prince Viserys' (Aenys son) dragon and was left hostage there by Visenya when he was sent to King's Landing to be Maegor's squire. Perhaps that bond from feeling Viserys be tortured until his death by his own uncle affected the Cannibal and is why he won't take a rider and eats his own kind. ❤️🩹
Another great video. Very interesting
🔥🔥Excellent video. Congrats on the new house!
Thanks!
thank you!
What I find interesting is that the Cannibal could be used as a device to explain to readers what happens during Dance of the Dragons.
Cannibal could represent the Greens with its green-tinged flames and eyes. What does it seem to like to do? Eat/Kill (Targaryen/Blacks) dragons and their eggs.
I don't think we get what happens to Cannibal exactly, but it seems to fly off after most of the Targaryen dragons are wiped out. Kind of like "My job here is done." And yes, for the most part the Greens (House Hightower specifically) survive and don't fade into memory I still think its an apt parallel between the dragons and the fight between the Greens and Blacks.
The Cannibal is my “I can fix her!” in dragon form
ETA: the idea of young Corlys claiming the cannibal is a fun one because then we have Rhaenys Targaryen with Meleys marrying Corlys Velaryon on the Cannibal. Whoop, guess she becomes Queen 😂
Can’t wait for this!!
Whoop whoop!
Love this topic. Um only half way through but hope he brings up the bones in the Dothraki sea.
i didn't, what was your thought there?
Hey yeah I bet that's why seasmoke wouldn't let any of the Targaryens ride him just valeryons sons that is a strong theory 🤔
Thanks Dave!
Never been so early! About to start watching!
Yeahhhhhh!!!! 🤘🏻 thanks for the video David 😊
Great video bud
Balerion went home to Valyria and his dad beat the absolute hell out of him
hahah you always think you can take Pops, but no. Pops still got it
7:24 Could a dragon even commit "abomination"? Seems to me like they shouldn't be bound by human ethics/morals
Amazing.
Congrats on the new house 👏
Great video 👍
Green eyes, green flame and horns. Cannibal is a Green-man confirmed.
Garth the green come again!
Yay!! Soooo excited for this!❤
Looks more like 'gyptian incerst to me! Jus' sayin'. Praise Garth!
def also an influence
@@DavidLightbringer Just with the straight brother-sister-why go down the tree when you can go down the hall-style, and proclaiming divinity instead of divinely appointed right kinda deal. Far be it from me to quibble over the intricacies of dynastic inbreedings!! So many families, so little time...
I suspect Cannibal suffers from Wendigo Psychosis, they act more human than most animals and creatures in the story. And eating Targaryen bastards and other Valyrian ancestry eases that madness.
This is the antidote
Green flame like wildfire. I know, I'm reaching lol
Do you think dragon ptsd is a thing? Another cannibalistic dragon is Sunfyre and seeing as Sunfyre had the personality more akin to a golden retriever to then being a ferocious fighter with cannibalistic tendencies after being betrayed by Vermithor makes me wonder if dragon ptsd is a thing. If it is perhaps that might clue us in on the Cannibals back story
Awesome video! 💚👏
I don't like the idea that the Cannibal is a Velaryon dragon. As mentioned right before, the Targaryens and the Velaryons have intermarried many times, the better documented cases adding Velaryon blood to the Targaryen family (Alyssa Velaryon, Vaelaena Velaryon), so it would be very hard to explain why the Targaryens couldn't tame the Cannibal then or why no other Velaryon ever bonded with a dragon or why The Cannibal singled out Corlys.