A Statistical Analysis of Streamers Dying to Messmer
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2024
- After countless hours of analyzing 1600 attempts of streamers trying to defeat Messmer in Shadow of the Erdtree, here is everything I was able to learn!
Enjoy!
Twitter: / xenoxygene
Twitch: / xenoxygene
@ludwig @KaiCenatLive @Elajjaz @distortion2 @MissMikkaa @Caedrel @39daph @Emiru @PointCrow @KosekiBijou @shroud @AsmonTV
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I understand what you re saying about Asmongold , but this guy calls people that use summons on soul games pussies , but when he struggles with smth he levels up off camera and uses a cheese build , so him getting clowned on is kinda deserved.
I am not able to say as I don't watch his streams, but I agree that he shouldn't make such comments, I took the opportunity to talk about perspective during his segment as I thought it would fit well! Anyone should play the way that gives them the most enjoyment.
He wasn't serious about it
@@XenoxygeneHe’s a real character but I liked your perspective! My first playthrough of Elden ring was with summons and I loved it! Now I’ve got 1000 hours under my belt and I can do just fine without em! (Still love them tho💕)
Asmon calling someone a pussy for using summons is basically level 1 sarcasm. If you think he's serious when he makes a joke that obvious, I would not suggest watching him at all for your own mental health.
@@kanosighe has history with bashing game journalism for being bad at games (on occasion) and plenty of cases where he clowns on others for being not good enough at a game.
Him throwing in the towel at messmer isn't a bit. He really did get clowned on
If we notice this man go missing for a couple months we know Rahdan is up next
We still have Romina before that 😅 And maybe Midra and Metyr.
@@madeline6951 I died to her for the first time ever after killing her three or four times before that. It feels bad. Now my streak is over. Really easy boss though and she needs a buff or something.
@@madeline6951 I died to her (Romina) for the first time ever after killing her three or four times before that. It feels bad. Now my streak is over. Really easy boss though and she needs a buff or something.
@@madeline6951 Yeah true
Never forget that Asmon always talked big game about wizards and summon users being "casuals" only to switch to an OP build when the game became too hard for him
Sorry, I wasn't aware as I don't really watch his streams! I think everyone should play the game the way that brings the most enjoyment to them without projecting onto others what they think is "correct".
@@Xenoxygene I think the same, my problem is that you can't talk such big game about wizards being bad because it's easy "easy" and then change to an actual meta build that trivializes the game when you hit an actual challenge, that's just hypocrisy.
He literally said he was doing that for fun. He had beaten the game once before already. I don't know if he said anything as such about the dlc, but this was before it.
Asmon being cringe? No way
@@guerreiroazul3230 Then comes back with million of runes. Lmao
My favorite part of this fight is how he genuinely moves/fights like a snake. He rears his head, and hisses at you if you will, before striking and it’s designed to get in your head and make you panic which his kit is perfectly set up to punish. The first phase especially requires composure overthinking or panicking is certain death, but with practice those fear tactics becoming openings to deal damage. However on a first play through when you don’t know the timing of his attacks at all he’s easily one of the most relentless and unforgiving bosses they’ve ever made
The limited memory storage analysis made me laugh. Really good work here, just like the previous ones.
The thing about Messmer is that it’s actually fun dying to him, because that means you get to have all that fun happen again. I was genuinely upset when I finally won. I didn’t want the fun to end
i feel like this about a lot of elden ring bosses every time i do another ng+
You could almost say it's a treat!
Realest thing ever
I beat him in like 7 attempts, and honestly I was sad. He's a really solid boss that I ended up wanting more of.
@@Faminetheblack If you quit out during his dying animation, it resets the fight. I spent a few days grinding fights like that and managed to get up to an 18 win streak against him at one point; such a fantastic boss!
I can't believe you started playing Wet Hands in the background at 17:52.
9:44 yeah Messmer is a lot of things but not overtuned. Quite the opposite actually, he is undertuned. As amazing as a boss he is, Messmer suffers from mid-game balancing syndrome just like Morgott, Fortissax and Starscourge Radahn. Where they just have really low health for no reason and are midgame bosses, in the base game and DLC respectively. Although to be fair, in Messmer's case its not that bad, his HP is alright but I think a bit of extra could help. The other examples on the other hand are in DIRE need of an HP increase.
Morgott is really cool but he dies in like 3 attempts if you have a decent build.
But is it a REAL issue? A big HP pool doesn't necessarily mean you'll have more fun or find the boss to be cooler or more epic. Why do you think he should have more hp? This makes me think you fight him with extremely high damage builds. I beat him doing a cosplay run with a bleed falchion, i felt it was the "right" duration. If he was snaking about for too long i think he'd be a bit of a nightmare because he is very fast and can chain punishes into each other with many of his attacks.
@@BygoneT I fight them on NG+10 and beyond with weapons that barely reach 700 AR, no buffs.
I want them to have more HP because their movesets are fantastic but I barely get to see half of it because they die so fast. It doesnt really feel like a fight against a legendary warrior at that point but more like an ass beating
His attacks are a bit hard to react, with the usual Elden Ring "gotcha" snap to them, but other than that he is actually pretty fair. His HP could be about 20-30% more, especially given you can get Hornsent in there, but I don't think it would make him that much better, just longer. I beat him with no armour and the dryleaf arts for funsies and got to see pretty much all his attacks, so I feel like I got 100% of the experience the boss had to give, but I can see how he could be much quicker to kill with a heavy melee build.
@@pleaserespond3984 I'm gonna have to disagree with his attacks being hard to react to. I think Messmers moveset is the most intuitive one Fromsoft have ever made. As a result he isnt super hard but I actually think this is a good thing. It makes learning him one of the best boss experiences. I also think heavy meele builds would actually have somewhat of a harder time since he is pretty fast while big weapons are slow. And he is weak to slash damage wich is pretty much only found on smaller faster weapons.
"Between 2-350+ deaths" Well i know how well Bijou did
How do u watch a vtuber larping as a child and not feel like a loser?
@@disbled Same way people watch streamers in general and not feel like a loser. I cringe every time I see people type "I was here" or act like side characters while watching streamers. Watching streamers is about as low as you can get as a human being.
@@icebox1954just let people live lmao. No need to be this bitter
@@marlongerke6618 Not bitter bro I was just using the same logic as the dude above me. Learn to read.
@@marlongerke6618 its genuinely strange tho . like she has a mf pacifier on her avatar
Why do some people keep just commenting "forsen" on these videos? Is it a cult or something? Should I be worried?
It will be too late when you start to worry 😊
@@maidifferentzzzzzzzz
forsen
u should probably change country already
*FORSEN*
I wonder if PointCrow was still on his anti-vigor BS during his runs? For those who don't know, he entered the Malenia fight with 39 vigor, and his chat begged him to invest more. This, naturally, lead to him swearing that he would never invest a single point more into vigor, a promise he stuck to through the entirety of his TEN HOURS stuck on Malenia. He got so annoyed by people telling him to get more of it that he very nearly respecced to the minimum vigor possible. Fortunately, he decided against that, else he might still be fighting her to this day
Ngl I love that attitude. Its dumb as hell but I respect it
you honestly don't need more than 40 vigor, it's really just up to what talismans and gear you have.
@@Ghorda9 I mean, technically you don't _need_ anything. You _can_ beat the game at level 1 with only the gear you start with. It's just that most people would regard doing that as a form of torture.
@@fable23 i mean 40 vigor is perfectly reasonable, especially with ritual shield talisman it's even less effective at 60 simply because you need more flasks to reach full health
@@Ghorda9 Thing is, your hp & dmg negation increase each other's value. Negation also indirectly boosts your hp flasks, cause the more dmg you reduce, the more valuable each hp is, and at certain points, certain builds you won't see very often can be made viable - like lifesteal ones that can finally put that Malenia great rune to good use - which can be pretty fun in their own way tbf, especially if you're tired of dodge-rolling all the time ( you still gotta vs grabs ofc) , but still wanna feel engaged a lot, which is what you get with these builds cause you need to maintain aggression to keep your hp up.
I think your picks for this series are already set, but I think omitting Dan Gheesling's astonishing 2362 deaths on his Messmer run is a missed opportunity.
WHAT
@@marlongerke6618 Dan is playing with unleveled Vigor, so every tiny bit of chip damage just one shots him.
"Let's see if he has a ranged ability"
*Boss uses the exact same fireball ranged attack every other enemy uses that's based on the pyromancy he invented*
Bruh
stop assuming everyone knows every page of the lore like you do
"Let's see if he has a ranged ability"
Then he saw that he had a ranged ability. Where's the issue?
@@fatherofrose4027 Everyone knows that attack, calm down. You'll have seen it a hundred times or more in the DLC before you see Messmer use that same attack.
@@icebox1954 once again… if you don’t know the lore it’s some random fire attack being used and what do you mean calm down I’m fine don’t try and gas light me I know what I said, and it’s not like this is pokemon where they yell out the names of their attacks so how would you know OTHER than knowing the lore o.0?
@@fatherofrose4027 You don't need to know the lore to realise that fire knights look unusually similar to messmer for them to be completely unrelated.
Messmer is much easier to dodge then Rellana. She can extend one combo into another while Messmer is way more predictable.
When I realized that Black Blade had shitty damage I remembered who I truly am - a drake warrior. Switched to Dragonmaw and got him in 6 tries.
I'm only here for Bijou on the list.
Distortion is just owning though. To be expected, he's an amazing speed runner that knows these games inside and out.
Ludwig's explanation of the default combo on Paint is golden
Anyways, yet another banger 📡
forsen
These videos are so good, I started watching YT in 2008, and this is the first time I like a video before actually finishing it
"Messmer decided not to grab" 🤣🤣
When they say you can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result, I'll show them this video
People need to calm down in the comments about their views about some streamers featured or whatever and just appreciate this good analysis because we eatin good.
Absolutely love this series and these videos! Keep them coming, please!
Babe wake up. New Elden Ring DLC Streamer analysis just dropped
this series is one of my favorites on youtube. i think for some of the other bosses you could combine 2 in one video and you could be less thorough with the attacks and stuff. like for gaius, romina, metyr, putrescent knight and scadutree. tho personaly i think bayle and midra deserve their own videos. or if you do make one video for each im not complaining lol, as long as you dont get too burnt out cause im really looking forward too consort radahn. whatever you decide to do take your time im sure the videos will be amazing!
Been looking forward to this one! Thanks for doing all this data collecting and analysis, it's fascinating stuff.
Finally! I have been eagerly waiting for this since the Rellana video
@4:12 NL impression on point
as someone who grumpily took advanced stats and hated every second of it; i appreciate these graphs more than I can explain. Thanks for these. Willing pool of participants, good record of the data presented, unbiassed conclusions or observations made, no inclusion of crazy theorycraft. A true academic. Again, thanks ;)
This is a super fun series, thanks!
Messmer, imo, is absolutely a fun, fair & learnable fight. He’s one of my favorite bosses.
-I understand Radahn. I laughed *hard* whenever I’d dodge roll & get stopped by the uneven ground
& now they’ve patched him. I “get” nerfing “Consort Radahn” but; my issue w/it is “Why NOW?”
It’s been long enough to question why now, but *also* not significantly long enough where there’s gonna be players that haven’t fought him yet for many legitimate reasons, & wanted to see what all the fuss was…
Uhh man I just feel they’ve handled Radahn kinda poorly from the very beginning.
They nerfed the HELL out of main game Radahn, never liked that-now this
Think they “could” have just
-made the ground of arena level
-let him “wait” jst a bit before gravity charging you soon as you enter
-or maybe tune down the AoE of Miquella’s holy attacks
I agree with your recommendations for consort. The disco rave strobe lights should also just be less intense visually. I be straight up closing my eyes. 😂
@@mintkit1064 dude no kidding LOL!
-have you fought him after the patch?
I’m wondering just “how” much he actually feels nerfed
I think his triple slash combo was the most annoying thing of all. That was just so unfun to me. The rest if the fight was okay I think
@@marlongerke6618 yeah I agree with this absolutely
I don’t even think I “learned” dodging it.
Truly? Think I got completely lucky. Now I did have The Haligtree Great Shield (holy SH!T the difference that made) Anybody seeing this FARM for this shield if u don’t have it!
But far as the combo you’re talking about & also that his stagger window is considerably smaller (believe they tested it; apparently it shouldn’t “reset” until little over 10 seconds; he’s the *only* boss that resets in about 6)
I had no idea these people found Messmer that difficult to the point people were making graphs to learn him.
Let's goooo. I love this series so much. Very excited to see what comes next.
Amazing vid, thanks! Can’t wait for the final boss analysis. Cheers.
I don't know how people could think Messmer was overtuned, especially when Consort Radahn exists. Between all the bosses from the DLC, Messmer and Midra are some of the most fair bossfights in the game. Challenging, but fun, and not too much unfair bs attacks. I didn't even care I kept dying to them because it meant I could fight them again.
Because those people, due to the nature of progression in the dlc and how Messmer is required to be beaten first, never got to Consort Radahn.
I love the contrast between crusty Asmongold complaining that he's bullshit and not fun with his corny ass build and then you have Mikka rawdogging him with no blessings and being like "I love that fight, it was awesome".
The average deaths being 80 makes me pretty happy about my own skill tbh
I died at least 20 or 29 times in the battle
personally i died 101 times and chronicled my journey into short medal clips that I kept sending to my friends lol
genuinely wish I could fight him again. he was the first boss I truly tried to solo (the entire game up until this point, even ng+, I had been using mimic tear and other such tactics)
I don't feel bad that I used thinks like mimic tear, but REALLY devoting myself to defeating this boss on my own made the end result worth it. 100% my favorite boss in the game.
dont stop doing these type of videos, they are so much fun to watch!! keep up.
saying that, i neeeeedd to see radahn
Midra will be such a good one, it’s literally gonna be less than 10 deaths for people with op bleed builds, and over 100+ for everybody else
I love watching these videos, keep up the good work Xeno!
On the asmon tangent, this is literally what the Armored Core games are about. Change your build, play with numbers, and destroy the game
These videos are so good and keep getting better, keep it up bro
one of the best ER series comes back helll yeah
Yes dude. I love these videos so much.
I beat Messmer my second time without even really thinking I could, not even lying lol
Sorry MissMikkaa is second with ZERO scadutree blessings? Insane performance, she's crazy good at the game
Happy to find you and now you upload on same day! Huge
Welcome aboard!
These videos are so entertaining
17:52 made me laugh more than it should have haha. Great video!
Banger job editing this!
Am I the only one who finds Messmer hot? When he says "Thou'rt tarnished" I get shivers down my spine
You should definitely check out the video by Shenpai called "the Messmer incident" then, cuz she definitely agrees with you lol.
“Thou Tarnished…I see thou desirest 18 inches of Messmer the impaler…”
I think it sounds cool, but nah
I was not attracted to him until he unveiled phase two with all the snakes lol
@@iveharzing How did you remember that lol
good to know i can watch one Forsen Messmer attempt one day a year. Nice of him to cover the leap year too.
Can’t wait to see Bayle and Radahn stats. Loving these videos
This guy proves that streamers are content creator not good at video games but good at making content
Love these videos.
They should have gotten at least 15+ scadutree blessing beforehand.
Getting a few more scadutrees makes a huge difference sometimes.
I guess out of viewing experience purposes they didn't?
Yesterday i killed messmer at level 1 and it was much harder tan i expected ,defintely the harder move for me was the spin jump combo
I’ve done him rl1 as well and what caught me the most was Messmer assault. The poke flurry kept getting me because I couldn’t differentiate the initial spin from another attack that starts the same way.
@@mannytprimeministerofthemanate One spins way more than the other and the distance covered is also greater. That's how I tell them apart.
7 tries. I merely learned his movement. And realised how to fool him when he goes full gigapython.
Thank you for playing “Wet Hands” after talking about wet hands
Man,I coulda gone to my grave better without Ludwig’s crisis rant that included birth conditions.
forsen
Genuinely don’t understand how Forsen could be Lv 114 at Messmer. Does he just run past all the enemies in the levels? Has he done anything in the basegame? HOW!?
Listening to videos like this, I am forced to realize how differently I approach these games to so many others.
I so often see advice like "change your setup" or "use different tools" and how much "more fun" the game is if you don't slavishly stick with what you're currently using.
But, man, that's what characters 2 through 9 are for. Each character gets a specific set of tools. If I just use "what works", that would be a betrayal of that character's build.
I know that every build has many options, but there are only so many that won't cause overlap with another, and I don't want that.
Bijou is my spirit animal. She chose to cosplay Vergil and she stuck with it, difficulty be damned.
I'm the same as you! I have the most fun just going at it again and again even when I know being stronger would make me have a much easier time. The satisfaction when I finally win is unparalleled. However, some people don't feel the same way and I think it's better to encourage them to find what works for them instead of them getting frustrated and leaving the game!
@@Xenoxygene I wouldn't say my approach makes it...fun. it's just that compromising would make me feel worse.
Same here, thematic builds/cosplays ftw
I wish you the best of luck when you do leida and / or radhan. I honestly would get popcorn and enjoy watching that much
hey could you include Twitch’s top suffercore slow-runner, Emmy award winning Dan Gheesling? I think his stats would add valuable insight
Another amazing video Xenox! Keep up the great quality of these videos, I'm excited for Romina/Radahn!
"I'm going to gather strength with some optional bosses" How about CURSE YOU BAYLE?
The dragon boss gauntlet leading up to his boss fight optional but I'd be interested in that as well.
Big fan of these vids! Please do Bayle too!
I feel like when people fight against a boss, they expect the boss just to either keep attacking rapidly, or just either complain because the boss doesn’t let them heal,
*you just gotta wait for a window, study the attacks, rather then complain about dying over and over again*
That’s how I beat messmer, and every other boss.
I want to ride in Messmer's 2013 Toyota Prius Hybrid. Shitty jokes aside, I really love this series. Looking forward to the hippo and Gaius.
After defeating Messmer, i checked the inventory for an Ascetic Bonfire to use. Than i remembered, FromSoftware never bringed that item back after Ds2. *Man*
Imagine playing video games for a living and dying to Messmer 100s of times....time to get a job stacking shelves down Tescos!
Womp womp
Who's gonna fire them? Queen Marika? Lmaooo
sick video series
Bro really said Forsen doesn't have enough brain ram
Messmer was my favorite boss in the whole DLC. Something I'll never understand is people trash-talking using shields or blocking with weapons when using UGS or colossal weapons, like I'm half convinsed that most streamers play shieldless because it makes for "funny" death compilations.
Of course everyone should play the way they prefer, but if you give up all defensive options except for rolling and then go on huge rants about the boss being unfair because you fail to be perfect with the only defensive option you left yourself - that one's mostly on you, chief.
Sincerely, member of a sword & board gang since 2011
i had been waiting for this,awesome video!
Wait until this dude finds out about Moonmoon's lvl1 run deaths to each boss
this boss was when i discovered the deflecting tear, I dont remember why i even tried it but it was the best thing to happen to my playthrough. Now sadly the only bosses left at that point was bayle, the alien and the final boss so i didnt get much out of it but still.
"why did they censor it?" is so real. Said that for him and Midra
PG Rating
@@marlongerke6618 lame
I love these videos
Idk why some people with obviously low skill (for such games) don't even fully upgrade their flask.
No no the coolest move is the Slow wind up Grab that one shots
I love these videos, I can’t imagine how much time & effort it must take to make them!
Killed him in a few tries with unga-bunga build with big weapon and lion's claw. On NG+1 tried dryleaf arts, died miserably several times, then switched to night's claw build and killed him first try (he has low bleed resist even on NG++). Also during another playthrough with only sorcery build killed him with good old night comet.
The moment ludwig appears i immediately stop video and close it
Then how did u comment?
ok?
can't blame ya he's cringe incarnate. Also good friends with Mr. pedo. I mean mr beast lol my bad. forgot his name for a second there!
Why?
Okay, why?
0:17 she says what we're all thinking!
I love this fight. I never played coop but just for him, i started getting summoned and ive beaten messmer 200 times (lets give approx 300 tries when the host died)
Asmongold tanking-up helped me with the DLC.
God, I would love to see Bayle and Midra. My two personal faves, and from my friend's 0 blessing playthrough, and my later 0 blessing playthrough on a new character, parry Midra is a blast. Also super curious about the dude on the hog mount that I cant remember the name of. All my friends struggled against him, but I found him fine to fight. Really wanna see how other people did there.
Can we get a dedicated video strictly for bayle?
I wonder how these streamers would handle NG+1000, like Skumnut
Messmer was probably the easiest and best fight in the dlc as far as remembrance bosses go.
Like, if they're bitching about him I can't imagine what he would say about promised consort.
these are so good man
The way me hornscent and my mimic tear jumped messmer would’ve had people thinking they were watching JJK
Im genuinely curious to see all the other bosses but most of all Radahn cause all of them beat him pre nerf
Missmika was the best by far but she's also someone who makes her living out of playing these games and doing challenge runs so I expected as much. It also too me 22 tries like her but I had scadutree +7 I think at lvl 100. She's pretty good.
I just found your channel today through the Lion boss video and you upload a few hours later. Lucky me🎉
People crying because they cannot finish the dlc they paid 40 bucks for it.
Bububa bububu ba bububu ba
Bro he's not even that hard, how did people die THIS much to him? At least Consort Radahn was like....ACTUALLY overtuned bullshit that removed your ability to even see what was happening in the fight half the time.
Yeah sure buddy, Radahn isn’t even that bad
@@RavenGamingOverLord The problem with Radahn isn't that he's overtuned or anything, this is a game with 500 different cheese builds if you're struggling that much. It's that he wreaks havoc on your visual acuity with how many goddamn particle effects he has.
Yes, I beat him, pre-nerf. On several different builds. But clearly there was an issue if they did turn down the particle effects later.
forsen
I thought I was doing pretty good in the dlc, no boss took over 50 attempts. And then radahn showed up