Hey Tarnished homies! I came across an interesting _thread_ on Reddit and decided to _stitch_ together some connections I haven't seen other people discuss. I'll sew myself out.
Your video made me realize that Gowry's plan for Millicent somewhat resembles Nanaya's plan for Midra : delaying the influence of the Outer God until the subject is strong enough to serve as a vessel
We see this philosophy mirrored in the Branch Talismans- staving off Death. As someone who's nearly perished 3 times now I can say there's some truth behind it all. The longer you stave it off, the grander the dose of DMT is metabolized. It's utter insanity and if I didn't experience it myself I'd be a non-believer.
@@LokiToxtrocity Nope. The torch stated that it belonged to "a man who failed to become Lord of Frenzied Flame." The only reason why people say it's Nanaya's baby is because it said it's "cradled" gently, but the rest of the torch's description makes it clear that it belonged to a person long time ago that failed to become Lord, died, and Nanaya picked(?) it up and took it with her.
This might support something I just thought of, the babies cradled by the Sorcerers who live in death may be failed attempts to rebirth Godwyn? But idk if the nail sorcery they use means something else. Why would the fingers want the young? Perhaps they are burials of other attempts to become mothers to the fingers? If you can be mother of fingers perhaps you can be a mother to gods?
@@LeBellmont There are no babies. There are also no babies being cradled. My take on the Torch is that Nanaya is cradling Shabriri's spine. There are evidences (not proof) that Nanaya is either Shabriri or a Finger Maiden for the Frenzied Flame. If she were any of those two, then it makes sense for her to go pick up Shabriri's spine and cradling it as if nurturing the only existence trying to bring upon the age of frenzied flame. Also, it clearly has the flame, so that might be the way she spread madness throughout the abyssal woods. The fingers are separate entities entirely and has no connection to frenzied flame. Only thing I can say about them, is that Ymir probably all the power of becoming the messenger of the Greater Will to himself, hence why he wanted to replace Metyr as the Mother of Fingers.
I think that Melenia saying she dreamed of skin of dull gold is her way of saying the unalloyed stitching wasn't working. Her blood was still rotting, thus the outer threading was only covering the rot within.
@@brokenlord3218 could be, it matters on when Melenia became the Blade of Miquella. People often forget that the great rune is what gave Miquella the charm, hence its breaking dispelled the enchantment. And, he didn't get the Great Rune until the Shattering War. Being a twin, I can definitely see Melenia being loyal to Miquelly without the charm
Malenia’s reference to the dream she was having isn’t an allusion to what is to be but that already has happened - her flesh is dull gold and her blood is rotted, as the blade of Miquella, corpse after corpse were left in her wake. The reason she describes it as a dream is due to her Rotting Sickness, it causes memory loss, nightmares and regression. When Millicent uses the unalloyed needle she says “Even the nightmares have abated” and then she says “I’ve started to recall, but dimly, my destiny” as well Gowry’s shack becoming familiar with to her. Radahn, when afflicted with Scarlet Rot, becomes mad and feral, with Jerren telling us his “wits are long gone”. As a fun aside, the wolf is the beast of Caria, so while Radahn likes to fashion himself as a lion, he gorges on corpses “like a dog”. Jerren then says “Howling at the Sky”, in reality though, Radahn is howling at the Moon. During the boss fight, the Dark Moon reveals itself. Anyway, the Greatsword of Damnation being a needle is pretty cool 🪡
Good to see you man and thanks for the insights! I wonder if you have any thoughts on Malenia's apparently woven skin and how it might tie into larger motifs of repair found throughout the story? Totally cool if you don't though 😂
I do, it mostly ties back to Radagon and his association with needles, black smithing, and his Elden Rune, the cross stitched lattice. Generally, the overarching theme is one of repairing or fixing what is broken. When it comes to Blacksmithing if you were to melt down and destroy a sword then built it back again, that is called reforging In Elden Ring, some things are broken just so they can be repaired, ya feel me?
@@JackisaMimic Radagon's connection to the Fire Giants (said to be the inventors of smithing) also explains that character design choice alongside the narrative one.
Also, in one of the theories Radagon is considered as a craftsman who was prominent in smithing and tailoring (e.g. gold sewing kit given to Boc and Golden Order Greatsword) and we can see that Radagon pattern on the Elden Ring is this cross patch reminding of 'holding things together' On the other hand we have Godrick that also saw the solution to the problem in sewing things together :D Soooo ER is basically about multiple ways of preventing things to fall apart...
Love it! I seriously thought about incorporating Boc and Radagon into this script but as I was cooking I was already worried about people saying Midra was a stretch haha!😂
@@mr_rowboto Yeah, from DeS where Monumentals tried to hold the fabric of the universe by conquering the Great One, in DS1 where Gwyn sacrificed himself to prolong his Age of Fire, in DS2 where Vendrick hid himself (and his soul) away to stop Nashandra's plan, in DS3 where Gael was traveling far and wide to claim the Dark Soul even though everything turned to ash at this point and Genichiro in Sekiro who sought every possible way to protect Ashina
In a real sense, Radagon's discovery of the Laws of Regression and Causality play to that theme- The Law of Regression is like mending, making things whole and restoring them to their original state, while the Law of Causality describes regular use and damage over time
Despair breaks down the ego, enabling the influence of Outer Gods to subsume the individual. Malenia blooms into a goddess of rot when she abandons her pride in battle. Midra, when we finally break through to his inner sanctum despite his warnings gives up on enduring and submits to the madness of the frenzied flame. Even the fire giant, in desperation, sacrifices part of his own body to invoke the Fell God when it becomes clear he will lose to the tarnished.
You forget, the Elden Beast's sword is believed to literally be Radagon's defeated body. Even Maliketh and Godfrey are guilty of tying their full potential back only to fall back on their own adversarial force. Though in Godfrey's case, he may just be his own abomination if not serving anything else.
@@thelastnotaryyou literally have to be a kid to be acting like this, at least contribute meaningfully to the discussions bruh you haven't even recieved at least one heart across all of your comments 😭😭
It makes sense why Mogh's body was able to be used by Radahn's soul despute it being influenced by the FM. Some wounds can stop bleeding by suturing, aka closing wounds by sewing it together. If gold is involved with it, unalloyed or not, it also references kintsugi, the process of putting things back together with gold and resin, which also serves as another inspiration for grafting.
Ha, I’ve never seen anyone even try to address how Mohg’s body is magically turned into Radahn’s, which definitely bothers me. “Those remains do not belong to you” - they sure look like they do!
@@MaxG628 Unless we go to JJK territory, I probably can make some assumptions: 1. When you finally defeat Morgott in Leyndell, you can see him lying there with all of his Omen horns gone and he looked like a shriveled old man. Assuming Mohg's defeat would have the same outcome, it wouldn't be hard for Miquella to shape his body into a vessel fit for Radahn's soul. The horned arms tha we see on his model might be from the FM's influence. Reminds me a lot of apostles returning to their human form in Beserk. 2. Assuming Mohg's body isn't like Morgott when he's defeated, Miquella probably used magic on him to completely change and conceal his form like the Mimic Veil or what Morgott did by disguising himself as a noble, or runebears disguising themselves as nobles.
It truly is mind-blowing that I've never seen anything relating to the woven gold in Malenia's flesh! From a distance I personally just assumed that it was rotted skin, but the fact that I've never seen anything relating to it until now is unbelievable. Incredible insight!
I'm buying this. It gets so, so very close to explaining Marika in the SotE trailer taking the golden threads from a corpse, and then brandishing them on her apotheosis.
To tack on to this I like to think as well this highlights the difference in approaches Marika and Miquella had for crafting their new world orders. We see Marika first gathering the threads and using them at the threshold of the gate of divinity to create the great rune that controls/knits the elden ring together under her control. And later we see her breaking the ring with a hammer imbued with loose threads in an act of brute force. When we get into Shadow of the Erdtree we see an entirely different approach as Miquella frays himself, disentangling every part of his body and soul to just the very essence of what he intended and then passing through the gate of divinity, like a thread himself eyeing the needle that is his king consort Radahn. His hair hangs down from Radahn as the material that will weave this new world in his image.
@@remygallardo7364that’s well written and interesting except that miquellas’ preferred method is through charms. He charmed every person he needed to and then with the power he would’ve gained has he succeeded would’ve charmed the world. I think fromsoft was trying to clearly define this method of control through charm as miquellas.
The metaphorical content is clearly there, but I think in the literal sense the needles work more directly by way of undefined stabbing-yourself magic. As in both Malenia and Millicent's cases physically removing the needle from their flesh is what allows the scarlet rot to accellerate. Needles are used for more than sewing after all, such as part of a syringe or for acupunture, wherein you get stabbed with needles for healing purposes.
I was previously very much team undefined stabbing magic 😂 I now am thinking it is probably both (at least for Malenia). The woven gold in her skin seems too intentional and is clearly not rot, so if its not stitches I don't know what else it would be.
Blood and flesh magic. The needle is just the focus. Kinda like being a very small wand. But the idea is the needle is the focus for the powers of the elden ring to force out the influence of gods not part of the Ring. Empowering flesh to resist such power.
@@darkmystic7764That may be true, but that might have been runes before formed into the Ring. Once it was fully formed, any rune seen in it, be it any of the Great Runes or even the Destined Death, seemed more like either light or a crystal, no longer resembling threads
There you said it. The "fabric of reality". The threads Marika pulls from the corpse in SOTE trailer are quite literally threads that she weaves into her own tapestry, a new reality operating onto this new set of rules. Miquella "spoke of the beginning" so the trailer also reveals he knows about these threads, thus he crafts needles. Tailoring is so incredibly underrated and surprising at the same time. So, if you look closely, the Golden Tailoring Tools are obtained at the Church of Vows. Another part of the game where Vows are important is Miquella's memory. Makes me think Miquella might have gotten his needles involved when wishing for Radahn to be his consort, rewriting Radahn's reality and thus sealing his destiny.
There is a lot of relation between barbs and compelling/forcing obedience. I assume that needles are a more sofisticated form of this same idea, especially considering that barbs were used to maje the first needles. Midras barbs seem to sit somewhere in the middle in that sense, but is still more in line with the barb theme.
Still only me here, unfortunately. 😂 I feel like I have been getting better at my audio mixing lately though! Appreciate the kind words, ColouringBook!
"Alright, got his health to half, here come the phase 2-Is he floating in the air? Is he? Is he gonna Scarlet Aeonia me?" - Me seconds from being nuked by Midra''s divebomb when he enter phase 2, just like Malenia did before
There's also Miquella's needle design having the "spiral" design seen in a lot of Hornsent structure and religious imagery, pertaining to divinity, which the spike piercing thru Midra also turned into a spiraling needle as well. So something done with this coiling design maybe helps in that regard. Another thing to point out is Radagon's tailoring skills. His sigils all have the same stitching pattern and the Carians used it in conjunction to their own sigil to form the barriers around the academy. Maybe the interwoven pattern of stitching also helps ward off influence, which may have helped the Golden Order to spread without having Outer Gods snatch their followers. That kind of pattern is similar to the one on Malenia's body.
Something is really interesting for me.. things that you can pierce with , are really related to outer gods Miquella's needle The sword in midra's flesh And also ... the way that you can make communion with the formless mother , is to thrust in to her body Just like mohgwyn's spear
The other symbol of fighting of the outer gods, braiding. It is a huge visual theme throughout the DLC. Wether Miquela’s hair and clothing, hornsent architecture and ring twirling incantations, Marika/Golden Order, and even many of the talismans. The braiding is described ( I forget which source item) as being a divine way of warding off the outer gods influence, to paraphrase. The braiding pattern and the sewing have to have some kind of connection.
Well, Millicent inserts and puts out the needle instantly, so I doubt the needle is meant to sew anything. It's supposed to go in your heart or something and it just works. If anything, the weapon that Midra is impaled on seems to be what holds the frenzy back.
I personally think that the Lord of Frenzy is the god of the chaos flame, capable of possessing those grasped by the three fingers upon their death. Although it is interesting that the Greatsword of Damnation is specifically stated to be made of gold.
5:31 is it just me or does that look like a face protruding out from his back? Almost looks like the frenzy flame outer god growing directly out of his body almost like the Giants fell god who protrudes out from their chest.
If this was how the needles were intended to be interpreted, then to really drive home the point they couldve made it so after using the needle in farum azula, you would have gold threading across the wounds left by the hand of frenzied flame. would've been a very cool detail
I always wondered why Midra impaled his hand and left a shard of the torture device in said hand for the fight. With this theory, I could see it being a way for Midra to resist the Frenzied Flame just enough to have self control during the fight.
Gold seems to be synonymous with order in Elden Ring. So it makes sense to me that it would impede the advances of the Frenzied Flame, a force of chaos. And I guess the God of Rot is also a force of chaos, which is why gold staves off its influence?
I disagree, gold can't mean order, is more like a complement to order than order itself. Otherwise the name "golden order" would mean the ordered order lol. But seriously, the tree that Marika left in shaman village says "...gold WITHOUT order" this confirms that gold means something on its own. I'm not sure what though, maybe symbolizes purity (since gold doesn't rust), cleansing, divinity or something like that.
@@ocean037 The Minor Erdtree incant describes it as the “kindness of gold, without order,” which doesn’t necessarily mean that gold doesn’t represent order, but possibly that there’s some kind of dichotomy (probably not the right use of the word) of gold, like the one between Marika and Radagon.
One thought I've had, is how boc needs a golden needle to stitch together the clothes of the demigods. I imagine a cool alternative to using the needle in space beyond time, would be boc sewing unalloyed gold into your flesh to ward off the frenzied flame.
That's really interesting! The stitches on Malenia don't exactly look like they were done by hand. They look almost like a bizarre final progression of the scarlett rot, especially on her thigh to me. Given that Millicent is pretty strongly implied to be inserting the needle somehow, and the bits in the DLC on the Verdegris stuff about corroded metals associated with an outer god (implied by who wears the set to be the outer god of rot), perhaps the stitching is a weird interaction between the needle and the rot itself? Seems also to be mirroring the cleanrot knights, though I suppose that's obvious.
That is a fascinating perspective. Instances of the Outer Gods' influence can be contextualized as distinct expressions of entropy, or the fraying of reality. Hence the countervailing sewing motif.
The idea that Miquella literally used the needles to sew Malenia’s unalloyed gold into her is even more compelling when it seems like he spun a cocoon for himself like a silkworm
I think you’re on to something regarding the needles, but I think Malenia’s dream is her fading memory of the Battle of Aeonia - memories which she lost when she lost her ‘self’, and which Millicent hopes to return to her with her sacrifice, and the return of her needle after you defeat her.
I had noticed the goldish patterns on Melania countless times before, though I had just thought that was the scarlet rot on her skin rather than gold. She had mentioned "flesh dull gold, and blood rotted" which I just assumed both being the rot
Visually I can't help but see Elden Beast and Elden Ring in the formation of Midras barbs. The dlc felt like it linked everything and nothing definitively at the same time 🎉
Wow, that’s pretty interesting. When looking at the needle/sewing theme in this light, it makes me wonder if it has anything to the tombstones with the single hole in them, that tower with the hole by the Shadow Crucible, the hole motif related to the Fingers/Ymir, and/or Rauh burrows/ruins.
Dude NICE! This cat Zayf is genuinely going for *deep* dives (2B completely honest, never paid much attention to Melania’s dream; & the ties here? Awesome) I was already sold, must of jst forgot-but subbed. Easily subbed 👍👍👍 (& far as what I think? I believe you nailed it; & hoping u the best on this platform)
A lot of characters in game had a snap during the fight, showing their true nature/ a part hidden. Some for mistake like Morgott, who let his corruption explode, while others like Maliketh, Godfrey and Messmer remove a seal to unleash all the power they have.
Needles and stitching being a way to ward off outer gods/magical influence seems to be a theme. Afterall, Needle Knight Leda's sword comes with an Ash of War, where you conjure spectral needles that pierce a target- said needles, have a special effect that undoes any magical effects or buffs on the enemy character. Another instance of needles removing magical influence.
Honestly kind of amazed other people didnt see the golden threads on her hand during the cutscenes, especially after learning about unalloyed gold. I always thought the connection was very intentional, and thats what her dialouge in the cutscene was referring to. I wouldnt call it a stretch at all.
This is also why I believe Miquella was intentional in his use of the needle, using his sister as a bomb in Caelid. He confined her Scarlet Rot so that it would "writhe" (Millicent's term) and thereby created a nuke to ensure that Radahn would succumb to his plan, despite Radahn's defiant strength and control over the stars (and, thus, Fate). Miquella experimented with Chitin in the Haligtree, transforming Cleanrot Knights into insectoid creatures, and he seems to understand the Scarlet Rot, manipulating it to serve his purposes. He knew that Malenia's pride would make her break her needle and allow the compressed Scarlet Rot to bloom. It is no coincidence that Midra has an attack that explodes in similar fashion to Malenia's Aeonian Bloom. It is a means of concentrating the godly influence and then releasing it all at once, like a hydrogen bomb (or anthrax bomb). Elden Ring is obsessed with germination and fermentation, from the Dungeater to Living Jars, and the potentialities of the return of the repressed. Superconcentrated seeds are everywhere in-game. The Hornsent made Marika from a "seed" (jar). The needle is just a more elegant method.
Wait what? Miquella experimented with chitin in the haligtree turning cleanrot knights into insectoid creatures? where can I read more about this? I haven't seen in-game indications that Miquella did that nor lore videos alleging it before.
@@DavidStavis it is indicated through environmental storytelling and the models. The eggs all over the Haligtree, the insect wings coming out of the Cleanrot Knights' armor, and his own wings (and cocoon) indicate his experimentation. Clearly he also studied the Scarlet Rot, for how else would he know how to treat his sister? His sister is infested with Scarlet Rot and Scarlet Rot spreads Chitin-based entities: mushrooms, Kindred of Rot, etc.
That makes zero sense. 1. Malenia was sent to kill Radahn, the bloom wasn't planned it was Malenia's doing because she was losing. 2.Why would Miquella's plan be to scarlet rot bomb Radahn and hope a random tarnished kills him? (The tarnished hadn't even arrived yet and how could he have predicted the festival, there might have been no survivors. A scarlet nuke is extremely unpredictable) 3. Miquella loves Malenia why would he put her at risk of becoming the goddess of rot? (This was before he abandoned St. Trina) It makes more sense for the bloom to have been unplanned by Miquella, why wouldn't he want Radahn quickly instead of waiting for someone to finish Malenia's job?
@@Ratscracher Radahn is the "strongest demigod", per the lore. Miquella knew he would need something stronger than Malenia to slay someone who can control the stars (and thus Fate). Thus Miquella, like Gowry, manipulated Malenia with the promise of a cure to Scarlet Rot. Gowry learned how to make Millicent into a "Scarlet Valkyrie" by emulating Miquella. WHY do you think Gowry wants Millicent to have the needle to begin with? Why do you think she removes it if we do not betray her? She KNOWS what the needle is intended to do. That is the whole point of her questline. Miquella uses and discards people constantly, from Mohg to Malenia. Why do you think he set Malenia loose upon the LB? He KNEW she was a ticking timebomb. He uses timebombs all the time, including at the Haligtree (Haligtree soldiers detonate, remember?) He manipulates all sides like a puppetmaster, using the Hornsent, the Needle Knights, Mohg, Mohg's bloody fingers, the Cleanrot Knights, the Misbegotten, Albinaurics, and countless other things as a ragtag wall of defenders/enforcers. There is even evidence that he made Royal Revenants, which is why so many are at the bottom of the Brace. Miquella is not a kindly soul. He is, as Ansbach states, a monster.
I think there is also some connection between Radagon, needles and weaving. Radagon' s component of the Elden Ring is the woven lattice, and the description on the golden needle and thread has some more interesting information. It makes me wonder if Radagon was some able to weave the threads of fate to create new life forms, like some smith of life.
I used to think the needle worked by putting it deep into someone’s flesh and just leaving it there while it would essentially purify the bloodstream which would spread throughout the body preventing stuff like the frenzied flame from being able to truly form
The other interpretation I've heard is that the needle works as sort of lobotomy needle, which were historically made of gold due to it being non reactive metal. It makes perfect sense really since the influence of the outer gods and various other effects in the game are presented through eyes.
I think the Needle is to push inside the flesh because Millicent do it (Unfortunately for us is just classic item animation when we use the needle to heal Frenzied Flame.) but yeah, those piece of gold are there to keep her body together and not let her just rot on the ground. For Midra, i don't think that blade block the Frenzied Flame. Miquella's needles say it pretty clear, while everything we know about Hornsents inquisition's spells and weapons are about torture and pain. Maybe the golden aura had a natural power to hold it a little, but i think it was a Saw thing like "Suffer or kill yourself removing it" Even because Midra was a failed Lord of the flame until he endured throught.... centuries of pain and despair, something that feed the Frenzied Flame until SNAP.
I was of the opinion that Miquella’s needle was like an acupuncture needle quelling the influence of outer gods, but now I’m wondering more about just how “needle”-like some of these are. Like Midra’s greatsword of damnation, I was originally thinking it was some sort of punishment for frenzy, but now I’m thinking it’s a needle to keep frenzy at bay. Also how the people in front of Midra’s manse have their heads cut off but still retain the glowing yellow barb where their heads once were. Considering that the runes that grant life appear to be in the head (the glowing eyes of skulls in the overworld), it makes sense that taking the head and leaving in the barbs would essentially “kill” the person who otherwise could not die. It would root them to the spot and make them inert.
Interesting implications for BOC the seamster! I can't think of any in particular but the fact that he's sewing based makes me think there's something. Also iirc gold is anti-microbial. It makes a sort of video game surreal sense that using pure gold could slow down "infection" by rot.
I also like the obvious connection of it being a gold needle as gold is obviously heavily connected to the Greater Will (Another Outer God). It makes sense that it would be easier to deal with one Outer Gods influence by using that of another.
This just makes me realize that both the Scarlet Rot and Frenzied Flame looked at how Marika and the Fingers structured their divine hierachy and were like great idea! My personal theory is they know inhabitants of the Lands Between are completely brainwashed and are copying it to sell their ideology easier. Though theres evidence as well the SR generally could coexist with the Golden Order as it does in the main game so its possible its some kind of twisted show of affection copying the Golden Order too.
What's crazy is look at her pauldron. That's a Scadutree! Her grieves also look like Divine Warrior grieves. I wonder how much unalloyed Gold covered the vanished land. Also Verdigris? It's all over Farum Azula and other spots. Next time you visit Dragon Temple aka Godskin Duo arena take a look at the reliefs.
I thought about it when I noticed it while looking at her art and cutscenes 4 years back. It honestly looked like part of her flaesh to me. I just guessed it was some preventative measure. Nice to see someone make a vid about it.
It bothers me how many missed opportunities the DLC had to do lore stuff, the castanets or continuing tanith’s story, and now potentially using the needle here would have really been amazing
I mean... Miquella's needle and the thing piercing Midra look very similar. While I am not sure as to the stiching aspect, my headcanon is that Miquella has been working with Mogh for some time to learn secrets of the Hornsent. And as such he has managed to create his own version of their torture divice- one that would serve to only keep influence of Outer Gods at bay, without causing unnecessary suffering.
Miquella's needle and the repaired unallowed gold needle both have outward facing barbs similar to the stake impaling MIdra, albeit smaller. They could just be there to make it hard to remove or to make it so it doesn't fall out on its own but I wanna believe that there's some sort of sympathetic magic going on because it's cooler that way. Miquella had to mimic the form of the stake to get the forstalling efect
Interesting take. I felt that the story of Miquella stitching Melania together was already implied and loosely explained. It was obvious that what Midra was impaled with was doing the same thing as the unalloyed gold was for Melania and resisting the outer god. What’s more interesting it the idea that the Hornsent also had discovered a way to resist the outer gods. Perhaps the question is: “who did it first? Was it purely coincidental or did one take the technology/magic from the other. Being that the Hornsent were mostly crushed by Marika’s progeny it makes me wonder if this is where Miquella figured this out. The Hornsent being “sent by the horn” or in other words sent by the horns of the crucible. Cool stuff! Great video!
what if the 2 outer gods are actually one and the same? Considering that Miquella wanted to create the needle solely for the scarlet rot outer god, but somehow it now works on the frenzy flame as well?
I would say we lack the evidence to say they are the same, but they at least seem to occupy a similar existential plane in Elden Rings Universe. Not a 1x1 comparison, but I think of them as similar to HP Lovecraft's various outer gods.
@@ZayftheScholar I've always wondered if the frenzy flame succeeded in absorbing everything back into itself if it would inherit the scarlet rots desire to make new life after absorbing it and maybe remake the universe instead of keeping everything as one for the rest of eternity. I wonder if that was the scarlet rots original purpose as part of the one great.
I think you are definitely on to something here, and it makes sense thematically, not just for Elden Ring, but for all of From's Soul series. Every game has some sort of power or authority that is trying to "stitch" their world together, in order to maintain power or rule. There's always an era of prosperity that we never get to experience, because we are dropped in after the world has fallen into disrepair, and we are tasked to "fix" it or decide its fate. But in every game, the method of saving the world is flawed, in that no matter how many times we "stitch" it back together, the solution will be superficial and eventually, those threads will unravel again. And every time that happens, it becomes more apparent that the world is sick and broken, while becoming harder and harder to put back together. Much like a frayed, rotting tapestry.
The conjectures in the video are very consistent. By the way; I visited Malenia a couple of times, in case there were any new lines of dialogue after the fallen of the Miquella's enchantment on his followers in the DLC and after the fight with Miquella. I was hoping to see her aware of having been abandoned by her brother, but she kept waiting...
I hadn’t clocked the Midras stitching but I did think it was too much of a coincidence that Miquella’s Needle is a refined version of the weapon holding the Frenzied Flame back, and I wonder if Miquella knew about it? I also don’t think Miquella sought to fight off the Outer Gods purely for the good of his sister but as part of his own plan for ascension. Two outer gods had a claim on his “promised consort” by the time Miquella’s plan was enacted; the God of Rot and the Formless Mother and I don’t see Miquella as the type to share…
This also brings to mind Radagon's lattice pattern, somewhat. I wonder if this aspect of the nature of the world is something that Miquella came to understand somehow through his relationship with Radagon, and the needle is a sort of physical manifestation of the perfection of gold (shout-out alchemy refernce!). Radagon's lattice-like rune serves to hold together/in stasis the Elden Ring, while Miquella's Needle stiching literally holds together Malenia. Idk! Just the visual and thematic similarities are interesting, something to think about! Makes me wonder if Radagon himself has something more to do with the concept of "gold" in this universe while Marila actually represents the shadow born as a result. Like she became the shadow once there was another "self" in radagon to embody the gold aspect.
Certainly seems to make the most sense- though I have to add that when we give the needle to Millicent, she is not using it to stitch her flesh together; she asks us to turn away and not watch. She cries in pain and it is over, and we never "see" what she did with it. If we go we go to Farum Azula ourselves however, we get to see what is done with Miquella's Needle that makes it effective with a vague animation: We stick it in our forehead. I never really thought about it until meeting Midra- who wails in pain with a giant needle having pierced him through his head. While I fully believe Miquella used his Needles to stitch Unalloyed Gold into Malenia to repair the ongoing Rot, it would seem that the Needle "imbedded in the flesh" as Millicent says, is how the Needle itself is further used to ward off the power of the Outer God. In that sense it serves two purposes: to repair/hold together as a literal sewing needle, and as a imbedded pin that works internally. I want to make a joke about the golden needles being like anti-god IUDs, but the mental image just saying that is enough, haha
I have some questions about Elden Ring's setting. I have seen a lot of gold and silver weapons and armor. What are the material properties of gold, unalloyed gold, and silver? Are the properties inherit or bestowed by a power? Do the prosthetics require those properties to work?
It makes a lot of sense, stitching is always important in Elden Ring. The Godskin apostle maybe have more reason to be literally clad in the flesh of gods they've sewn together. Maybe they sought to attain their own form of godhood, only to fail because they didn't sew the God's skin directly into their flesh. Sewing is oddly important in Elden Ring, even Marika's people who was turned into the jar people were kind of "stiched together." Melding and becoming one entity in the jar, as a way to attain godhood
In Greek mythology the Fates spin the fate of mortals like threads in a loom, one spins the thread, one measures, one cuts. A loom is used to make thread for sewing hence the idea is that the Fates create a grand tapestry of life. Bringing it to ER they use the concept of a needle to stop or change the fate of the subject in question.
Something that I think is interesting is that it seems that we get to see Malenia break the needle while it's still inside if her body. When Malenia stabs herself while fighting Radahn it seems likely that her intention was to break the needle embedded so she can use the scarlet rot. This would also make sense as we find the broken needle in the Swamp of Aeonia.
I thought the pattern on Malenia's body was fish scales, similar to an alternative method of treating severe burns victims. But now that you mention it it looks more woven than scaled
The flower pattern on the armor on her right arm also resembles the stitching and I always thought the sword inpaled in Mira resembled the patterns in the elden beast
i like the diferences between the stiches, malenia is like replacing her skin with wool while midra is like tring to close a wound with a stapler, crudely done but will do the job
Maybe the needle is a reference to the Norns weaving the web of fate with golden thread and using water from Urðarbrunnr to prevent Yggdrasil from rotting? Elden Ring seems to borrow a lot from Norse mythology.
I actually think FromSoftware using a Needle specifically is a reference to the way they used Needles in Dark Souls 3 in the Cathedral of the Deep. The places with needles has none of the overgrown tree roots whereas the place without needles was overgrown. Taking this into account, perhaps that's the reason for using needles. Perhaps the primordial form of humanoids are trees just like the Hollows turning back into trees on the Wall of Lothric which is why the Needles can be used to hair the encroachment of a foreign entity. It's also likely why the statues in Elfael of an adult Miquella have a huge needle on them: to destroy any influence against his Haligtree. Also, unalloyed gold means it is not, and in this case cannot, be contaminated by other Orders hence why Miquella found interest in it and attempted to make divine trees with it at the Minor Erdtree Church in the Outskirts of Leyndell.
I also wanna point out the potential parallel of the golden needle and the eye of marika that messmer has. If the golden needle really is inserted into the pupil, they both probably work the same to stave off their afflictions.. Which also means that marika knew how to remedy those afflictions, like miquella later figured out, and she chose to use it on messmer, but not her later children miquella and malenia. Maybe thats because marika knew it was bad, or didnt work, or that there was a catch.. why would she help messmer but not miquella and malenia?
I find it intetesting how much Midras design echoes main game npcs/bosses. Like Malenia, but in my eyes his design echoes Gold mask even more. I wonder about what the similarities says about the gold mask's quest for truth. Was he a great prophet and erdant true believer that the threefingers turned onto chaos, by having us reveal the truth about marika to him, for its own amusement. Or was Korryn the person really being targeted, through gold mask, to turn to suffering and perhaps ultimately to the frenzied flame?
@@ZayftheScholar likewise! I love to see lore creators build off of the work of others, create new ideas/work, and cite their references. I think you did a great job and look forward to more work from you 😌🙏
After watching this video it made me realise that every character that gives in to the will of their outer god has to make a sacrifice or its a painful endeavour, Melenia and giving up her pride/succuming to the rot taking root completely must be very painful, Mirda willingly decapitating himself, Fire giant pulling off his leg, Godwyn having to die to become the death prince (up in the air if its an outer god infulance) and even Morgot seems very much pained/sickly when he phase changes since hes sealed away his acursed blood. But one character stands separate from this Mohg seems delighted and empowered by the Formless Mother when he pierces HER form in his phase change, his vistigal wings become massive functioning wings and more blood attacks added to his arsenal, and so far he is the only character to truely accept an outer god. The implies at least to me the idea that the outer gods are like Kami in Japanese myth they are the forces of nature. You either accept and work with them (Mohg) or you fight and resist, forced to endure pain and suffering until you snap and loose all control
the 'needle' in the biblical symbolism represents a tool that brings order, unlike its counter part, the 'spindle' which creates chaos. the book: 'the language of creation' explains this well if you are interested
I'm surprised you didn't mention that Miquella's needle is a spiral intertwining on itself just like the ones we see all throughout the hornsent culture. (Dammit, I lost the "heart" from Zayf when I edited this to correct a typo!)
I did wonder why Boc, his needle, the Golden Needle and sewing kit were introduced early in the story, after I got into Millicent's questline. The Unalloyed Needle, makes me wonder if there are other uses for it. Can you give it to Hyetta (Irina)?
Another thing i thought was neat was they both have infected the environment around them with their respective outergod power Midra has the abyss woods and of course Malenia when she was in Caelid
It’s really interesting how these two quest lines intercept during the main game. You literally can’t escape fate as the lord of chaos without finding Millicent&Malenia who are connected to Miquella.
Oh, goodness. I thought Malenia's flesh looked like "scales." Snake skin. Rune needle! Interesting. Man, I've been ruminating about Radagon's connection to the sewing and needle. And the parallel to Boc's needle. Threads of fate...baby. Interesting video. Have to think about it.
Given the dual/formerly dual nature of Miquella and St Trina, Trina being associated with Slumber, if Miq/Trina were able to influence her dreams while they left, or if there was an absence of influence after they left. Thoughts?
I always wondered how her prosthetic arm stayed on. Never noticed the spurt of blood when she locks it in place so something must pierce her. Maybe that’s where the needle is. She wasn’t wearing her arm when she bloomed in Caelid.
It's sparks. You can hear the metal grind into place as the sparks fly. Also in the battle of Aeonia where she bloomed, Radahn hacked the prosthetic arm off. If you watch the whole clip (it's on youtube) you see she has it on in the beginning, Radahn breaks it off, she grabs her blade with her left hand, and impales him and herself on the blade before blooming.
Hey Tarnished homies! I came across an interesting _thread_ on Reddit and decided to _stitch_ together some connections I haven't seen other people discuss. I'll sew myself out.
Needle Knight Leda wrote this comment
heyoooo
I'd recommend looking up Immanuel Kant ont he concept of stiching and reality
Canceling my membership after I finish weaving this sentence...
Your video made me realize that Gowry's plan for Millicent somewhat resembles Nanaya's plan for Midra : delaying the influence of the Outer God until the subject is strong enough to serve as a vessel
We see this philosophy mirrored in the Branch Talismans- staving off Death. As someone who's nearly perished 3 times now I can say there's some truth behind it all. The longer you stave it off, the grander the dose of DMT is metabolized. It's utter insanity and if I didn't experience it myself I'd be a non-believer.
She died bearing Midra's child it seems, as we get from her the Frenzied flame torch.
@@LokiToxtrocity Nope. The torch stated that it belonged to "a man who failed to become Lord of Frenzied Flame." The only reason why people say it's Nanaya's baby is because it said it's "cradled" gently, but the rest of the torch's description makes it clear that it belonged to a person long time ago that failed to become Lord, died, and Nanaya picked(?) it up and took it with her.
This might support something I just thought of, the babies cradled by the Sorcerers who live in death may be failed attempts to rebirth Godwyn?
But idk if the nail sorcery they use means something else. Why would the fingers want the young? Perhaps they are burials of other attempts to become mothers to the fingers? If you can be mother of fingers perhaps you can be a mother to gods?
@@LeBellmont There are no babies. There are also no babies being cradled. My take on the Torch is that Nanaya is cradling Shabriri's spine. There are evidences (not proof) that Nanaya is either Shabriri or a Finger Maiden for the Frenzied Flame. If she were any of those two, then it makes sense for her to go pick up Shabriri's spine and cradling it as if nurturing the only existence trying to bring upon the age of frenzied flame. Also, it clearly has the flame, so that might be the way she spread madness throughout the abyssal woods.
The fingers are separate entities entirely and has no connection to frenzied flame. Only thing I can say about them, is that Ymir probably all the power of becoming the messenger of the Greater Will to himself, hence why he wanted to replace Metyr as the Mother of Fingers.
I think that Melenia saying she dreamed of skin of dull gold is her way of saying the unalloyed stitching wasn't working. Her blood was still rotting, thus the outer threading was only covering the rot within.
Wouldn't be the first time Miquella tried to fix something that was already rotten to the core
But the stitching could still be helping in containing the outer god's influence within the body, even if the host completely succumbs.
I see it as her rotting memories. She can't remember, and sees flashes of her life in her dreams and nightmares.
I figured it referenced how Miquella likely used her with his charm like everyone else.
@@brokenlord3218 could be, it matters on when Melenia became the Blade of Miquella. People often forget that the great rune is what gave Miquella the charm, hence its breaking dispelled the enchantment. And, he didn't get the Great Rune until the Shattering War. Being a twin, I can definitely see Melenia being loyal to Miquelly without the charm
Malenia’s reference to the dream she was having isn’t an allusion to what is to be but that already has happened - her flesh is dull gold and her blood is rotted, as the blade of Miquella, corpse after corpse were left in her wake.
The reason she describes it as a dream is due to her Rotting Sickness, it causes memory loss, nightmares and regression.
When Millicent uses the unalloyed needle she says “Even the nightmares have abated” and then she says “I’ve started to recall, but dimly, my destiny” as well Gowry’s shack becoming familiar with to her.
Radahn, when afflicted with Scarlet Rot, becomes mad and feral, with Jerren telling us his “wits are long gone”.
As a fun aside, the wolf is the beast of Caria, so while Radahn likes to fashion himself as a lion, he gorges on corpses “like a dog”.
Jerren then says “Howling at the Sky”, in reality though, Radahn is howling at the Moon. During the boss fight, the Dark Moon reveals itself.
Anyway, the Greatsword of Damnation being a needle is pretty cool 🪡
Good to see you man and thanks for the insights! I wonder if you have any thoughts on Malenia's apparently woven skin and how it might tie into larger motifs of repair found throughout the story? Totally cool if you don't though 😂
I do, it mostly ties back to Radagon and his association with needles, black smithing, and his Elden Rune, the cross stitched lattice.
Generally, the overarching theme is one of repairing or fixing what is broken.
When it comes to Blacksmithing if you were to melt down and destroy a sword then built it back again, that is called reforging
In Elden Ring, some things are broken just so they can be repaired, ya feel me?
@@JackisaMimic Radagon's connection to the Fire Giants (said to be the inventors of smithing) also explains that character design choice alongside the narrative one.
Also, in one of the theories Radagon is considered as a craftsman who was prominent in smithing and tailoring (e.g. gold sewing kit given to Boc and Golden Order Greatsword) and we can see that Radagon pattern on the Elden Ring is this cross patch reminding of 'holding things together'
On the other hand we have Godrick that also saw the solution to the problem in sewing things together :D
Soooo ER is basically about multiple ways of preventing things to fall apart...
Yeah, which is literally Miyazaki's favorite theme on almost every single game he makes.
Love it! I seriously thought about incorporating Boc and Radagon into this script but as I was cooking I was already worried about people saying Midra was a stretch haha!😂
Maybe he is created in the ancient forges in the shadowlands
@@mr_rowboto Yeah, from DeS where Monumentals tried to hold the fabric of the universe by conquering the Great One, in DS1 where Gwyn sacrificed himself to prolong his Age of Fire, in DS2 where Vendrick hid himself (and his soul) away to stop Nashandra's plan, in DS3 where Gael was traveling far and wide to claim the Dark Soul even though everything turned to ash at this point and Genichiro in Sekiro who sought every possible way to protect Ashina
In a real sense, Radagon's discovery of the Laws of Regression and Causality play to that theme- The Law of Regression is like mending, making things whole and restoring them to their original state, while the Law of Causality describes regular use and damage over time
Despair breaks down the ego, enabling the influence of Outer Gods to subsume the individual. Malenia blooms into a goddess of rot when she abandons her pride in battle. Midra, when we finally break through to his inner sanctum despite his warnings gives up on enduring and submits to the madness of the frenzied flame. Even the fire giant, in desperation, sacrifices part of his own body to invoke the Fell God when it becomes clear he will lose to the tarnished.
😂😂 you didn't get a heart
You forget, the Elden Beast's sword is believed to literally be Radagon's defeated body. Even Maliketh and Godfrey are guilty of tying their full potential back only to fall back on their own adversarial force. Though in Godfrey's case, he may just be his own abomination if not serving anything else.
@@thelastnotaryyou literally have to be a kid to be acting like this, at least contribute meaningfully to the discussions bruh
you haven't even recieved at least one heart across all of your comments 😭😭
@@ae-jae946 I am grafted bro
It makes sense why Mogh's body was able to be used by Radahn's soul despute it being influenced by the FM. Some wounds can stop bleeding by suturing, aka closing wounds by sewing it together. If gold is involved with it, unalloyed or not, it also references kintsugi, the process of putting things back together with gold and resin, which also serves as another inspiration for grafting.
Mohg*
Ha you didn't get a heart
@@feshpince7181 boo
Ha, I’ve never seen anyone even try to address how Mohg’s body is magically turned into Radahn’s, which definitely bothers me. “Those remains do not belong to you” - they sure look like they do!
@@MaxG628 Unless we go to JJK territory, I probably can make some assumptions:
1. When you finally defeat Morgott in Leyndell, you can see him lying there with all of his Omen horns gone and he looked like a shriveled old man. Assuming Mohg's defeat would have the same outcome, it wouldn't be hard for Miquella to shape his body into a vessel fit for Radahn's soul. The horned arms tha we see on his model might be from the FM's influence. Reminds me a lot of apostles returning to their human form in Beserk.
2. Assuming Mohg's body isn't like Morgott when he's defeated, Miquella probably used magic on him to completely change and conceal his form like the Mimic Veil or what Morgott did by disguising himself as a noble, or runebears disguising themselves as nobles.
It truly is mind-blowing that I've never seen anything relating to the woven gold in Malenia's flesh! From a distance I personally just assumed that it was rotted skin, but the fact that I've never seen anything relating to it until now is unbelievable. Incredible insight!
Credit should go to u/Corrupt_Power on Reddit, as it blew my mind too!
I'm buying this. It gets so, so very close to explaining Marika in the SotE trailer taking the golden threads from a corpse, and then brandishing them on her apotheosis.
Golden threads holding the world together, enforcing the concept of order. Not dissimilar to Radagon's cross-stitch symbol.
To tack on to this I like to think as well this highlights the difference in approaches Marika and Miquella had for crafting their new world orders. We see Marika first gathering the threads and using them at the threshold of the gate of divinity to create the great rune that controls/knits the elden ring together under her control. And later we see her breaking the ring with a hammer imbued with loose threads in an act of brute force. When we get into Shadow of the Erdtree we see an entirely different approach as Miquella frays himself, disentangling every part of his body and soul to just the very essence of what he intended and then passing through the gate of divinity, like a thread himself eyeing the needle that is his king consort Radahn. His hair hangs down from Radahn as the material that will weave this new world in his image.
@@remygallardo7364that’s well written and interesting except that miquellas’ preferred method is through charms. He charmed every person he needed to and then with the power he would’ve gained has he succeeded would’ve charmed the world. I think fromsoft was trying to clearly define this method of control through charm as miquellas.
@@mightysrk Charming people, yes, almost as if he's tying a thread around their hearts.
@@c0n33r ooffffff
The metaphorical content is clearly there, but I think in the literal sense the needles work more directly by way of undefined stabbing-yourself magic. As in both Malenia and Millicent's cases physically removing the needle from their flesh is what allows the scarlet rot to accellerate.
Needles are used for more than sewing after all, such as part of a syringe or for acupunture, wherein you get stabbed with needles for healing purposes.
I was previously very much team undefined stabbing magic 😂 I now am thinking it is probably both (at least for Malenia). The woven gold in her skin seems too intentional and is clearly not rot, so if its not stitches I don't know what else it would be.
Blood and flesh magic. The needle is just the focus. Kinda like being a very small wand. But the idea is the needle is the focus for the powers of the elden ring to force out the influence of gods not part of the Ring. Empowering flesh to resist such power.
Oh, also. I always thought her dull gold flesh dream referred to her prosthetics. which are a matte gold.
Fun with the needle: Marika picks up long threads/hairs in the intro, makes me wonder if the elden rune can be used like thread. Really cool catch.
I doubt that. In the trailer for the base game, the Elden Ring shatters in crystallized form, not like threads.
@@connor1991101 And Marika pulls threads. I see a connection.
@@darkmystic7764That may be true, but that might have been runes before formed into the Ring. Once it was fully formed, any rune seen in it, be it any of the Great Runes or even the Destined Death, seemed more like either light or a crystal, no longer resembling threads
not sure about the connection, but the fact that Malenia has those stitches is mind blowing, never noticed them before
There you said it. The "fabric of reality". The threads Marika pulls from the corpse in SOTE trailer are quite literally threads that she weaves into her own tapestry, a new reality operating onto this new set of rules. Miquella "spoke of the beginning" so the trailer also reveals he knows about these threads, thus he crafts needles. Tailoring is so incredibly underrated and surprising at the same time. So, if you look closely, the Golden Tailoring Tools are obtained at the Church of Vows. Another part of the game where Vows are important is Miquella's memory. Makes me think Miquella might have gotten his needles involved when wishing for Radahn to be his consort, rewriting Radahn's reality and thus sealing his destiny.
00:19 Coulda swore I saw a face in Midra's back.
It almost looks like godwyns fish faces found throughout the game and dlc
Could be a way to alude to the flame god that the fire giants have on their chest
There is a lot of relation between barbs and compelling/forcing obedience. I assume that needles are a more sofisticated form of this same idea, especially considering that barbs were used to maje the first needles. Midras barbs seem to sit somewhere in the middle in that sense, but is still more in line with the barb theme.
Whoa why does this feel like a top notch production? Zayf, where have you been hiding these editors?!
Still only me here, unfortunately. 😂 I feel like I have been getting better at my audio mixing lately though! Appreciate the kind words, ColouringBook!
yes, sounds great and pleasing 👌@@ZayftheScholar
"Alright, got his health to half, here come the phase 2-Is he floating in the air? Is he? Is he gonna Scarlet Aeonia me?" - Me seconds from being nuked by Midra''s divebomb when he enter phase 2, just like Malenia did before
There's also Miquella's needle design having the "spiral" design seen in a lot of Hornsent structure and religious imagery, pertaining to divinity, which the spike piercing thru Midra also turned into a spiraling needle as well. So something done with this coiling design maybe helps in that regard.
Another thing to point out is Radagon's tailoring skills. His sigils all have the same stitching pattern and the Carians used it in conjunction to their own sigil to form the barriers around the academy. Maybe the interwoven pattern of stitching also helps ward off influence, which may have helped the Golden Order to spread without having Outer Gods snatch their followers.
That kind of pattern is similar to the one on Malenia's body.
😢 no heart for you
Something is really interesting for me.. things that you can pierce with , are really related to outer gods
Miquella's needle
The sword in midra's flesh
And also ... the way that you can make communion with the formless mother , is to thrust in to her body
Just like mohgwyn's spear
Haha you didn't get a heart
The other symbol of fighting of the outer gods, braiding. It is a huge visual theme throughout the DLC. Wether Miquela’s hair and clothing, hornsent architecture and ring twirling incantations, Marika/Golden Order, and even many of the talismans.
The braiding is described ( I forget which source item) as being a divine way of warding off the outer gods influence, to paraphrase. The braiding pattern and the sewing have to have some kind of connection.
Your camera work is SO GOOD!!
Thanks so much, KiteTales! I appreciate you taking the time to check it out and leave some kind words 🙏
Well, Millicent inserts and puts out the needle instantly, so I doubt the needle is meant to sew anything. It's supposed to go in your heart or something and it just works.
If anything, the weapon that Midra is impaled on seems to be what holds the frenzy back.
I personally think that the Lord of Frenzy is the god of the chaos flame, capable of possessing those grasped by the three fingers upon their death. Although it is interesting that the Greatsword of Damnation is specifically stated to be made of gold.
He didn't read your comment ha he didn't give you a heart
@@thelastnotary is that your only gimmick? Grow up
@@blizzardgaming7070 relax man I give you a thumbs up
The sword of damnation is a needle, that’s what the vid said
5:31 is it just me or does that look like a face protruding out from his back? Almost looks like the frenzy flame outer god growing directly out of his body almost like the Giants fell god who protrudes out from their chest.
If this was how the needles were intended to be interpreted, then to really drive home the point they couldve made it so after using the needle in farum azula, you would have gold threading across the wounds left by the hand of frenzied flame. would've been a very cool detail
I always wondered why Midra impaled his hand and left a shard of the torture device in said hand for the fight. With this theory, I could see it being a way for Midra to resist the Frenzied Flame just enough to have self control during the fight.
Gold seems to be synonymous with order in Elden Ring. So it makes sense to me that it would impede the advances of the Frenzied Flame, a force of chaos. And I guess the God of Rot is also a force of chaos, which is why gold staves off its influence?
I disagree, gold can't mean order, is more like a complement to order than order itself. Otherwise the name "golden order" would mean the ordered order lol. But seriously, the tree that Marika left in shaman village says "...gold WITHOUT order" this confirms that gold means something on its own. I'm not sure what though, maybe symbolizes purity (since gold doesn't rust), cleansing, divinity or something like that.
@@ocean037 The Minor Erdtree incant describes it as the “kindness of gold, without order,” which doesn’t necessarily mean that gold doesn’t represent order, but possibly that there’s some kind of dichotomy (probably not the right use of the word) of gold, like the one between Marika and Radagon.
Radagon did the same thing with the Erdtree and the Elden Ring
One thought I've had, is how boc needs a golden needle to stitch together the clothes of the demigods. I imagine a cool alternative to using the needle in space beyond time, would be boc sewing unalloyed gold into your flesh to ward off the frenzied flame.
That's really interesting! The stitches on Malenia don't exactly look like they were done by hand. They look almost like a bizarre final progression of the scarlett rot, especially on her thigh to me. Given that Millicent is pretty strongly implied to be inserting the needle somehow, and the bits in the DLC on the Verdegris stuff about corroded metals associated with an outer god (implied by who wears the set to be the outer god of rot), perhaps the stitching is a weird interaction between the needle and the rot itself? Seems also to be mirroring the cleanrot knights, though I suppose that's obvious.
That is a fascinating perspective. Instances of the Outer Gods' influence can be contextualized as distinct expressions of entropy, or the fraying of reality. Hence the countervailing sewing motif.
I feel like the wounds stiched on midra look kind of like the burns from the three fingers.
Looks like he didn't read your comment you have no heart kid
That is why Miquella has a symbol of woven circle of gold you can see it on his sisters armour 😮
Great stuff, miquellas lilly a flower close to wilting, looks threaded. And is believed to be loved by miquella, in his youth.
The idea that Miquella literally used the needles to sew Malenia’s unalloyed gold into her is even more compelling when it seems like he spun a cocoon for himself like a silkworm
This is another huge insight, so long after the games release and only now we know. That is 100% Miquella stitching her up with the needle!
I think you’re on to something regarding the needles, but I think Malenia’s dream is her fading memory of the Battle of Aeonia - memories which she lost when she lost her ‘self’, and which Millicent hopes to return to her with her sacrifice, and the return of her needle after you defeat her.
I had noticed the goldish patterns on Melania countless times before, though I had just thought that was the scarlet rot on her skin rather than gold. She had mentioned "flesh dull gold, and blood rotted" which I just assumed both being the rot
Visually I can't help but see Elden Beast and Elden Ring in the formation of Midras barbs. The dlc felt like it linked everything and nothing definitively at the same time 🎉
Wow, that’s pretty interesting. When looking at the needle/sewing theme in this light, it makes me wonder if it has anything to the tombstones with the single hole in them, that tower with the hole by the Shadow Crucible, the hole motif related to the Fingers/Ymir, and/or Rauh burrows/ruins.
Dude NICE!
This cat Zayf is genuinely going for *deep* dives
(2B completely honest, never paid much attention to Melania’s dream; & the ties here? Awesome)
I was already sold, must of jst forgot-but subbed. Easily subbed 👍👍👍
(& far as what I think? I believe you nailed it; & hoping u the best on this platform)
A lot of characters in game had a snap during the fight, showing their true nature/ a part hidden. Some for mistake like Morgott, who let his corruption explode, while others like Maliketh, Godfrey and Messmer remove a seal to unleash all the power they have.
Needles and stitching being a way to ward off outer gods/magical influence seems to be a theme. Afterall, Needle Knight Leda's sword comes with an Ash of War, where you conjure spectral needles that pierce a target- said needles, have a special effect that undoes any magical effects or buffs on the enemy character. Another instance of needles removing magical influence.
Honestly kind of amazed other people didnt see the golden threads on her hand during the cutscenes, especially after learning about unalloyed gold. I always thought the connection was very intentional, and thats what her dialouge in the cutscene was referring to. I wouldnt call it a stretch at all.
This is also why I believe Miquella was intentional in his use of the needle, using his sister as a bomb in Caelid. He confined her Scarlet Rot so that it would "writhe" (Millicent's term) and thereby created a nuke to ensure that Radahn would succumb to his plan, despite Radahn's defiant strength and control over the stars (and, thus, Fate). Miquella experimented with Chitin in the Haligtree, transforming Cleanrot Knights into insectoid creatures, and he seems to understand the Scarlet Rot, manipulating it to serve his purposes. He knew that Malenia's pride would make her break her needle and allow the compressed Scarlet Rot to bloom. It is no coincidence that Midra has an attack that explodes in similar fashion to Malenia's Aeonian Bloom. It is a means of concentrating the godly influence and then releasing it all at once, like a hydrogen bomb (or anthrax bomb). Elden Ring is obsessed with germination and fermentation, from the Dungeater to Living Jars, and the potentialities of the return of the repressed. Superconcentrated seeds are everywhere in-game. The Hornsent made Marika from a "seed" (jar). The needle is just a more elegant method.
Wait what? Miquella experimented with chitin in the haligtree turning cleanrot knights into insectoid creatures? where can I read more about this? I haven't seen in-game indications that Miquella did that nor lore videos alleging it before.
@@DavidStavis it is indicated through environmental storytelling and the models. The eggs all over the Haligtree, the insect wings coming out of the Cleanrot Knights' armor, and his own wings (and cocoon) indicate his experimentation. Clearly he also studied the Scarlet Rot, for how else would he know how to treat his sister? His sister is infested with Scarlet Rot and Scarlet Rot spreads Chitin-based entities: mushrooms, Kindred of Rot, etc.
He didn't get a heart
That makes zero sense.
1. Malenia was sent to kill Radahn, the bloom wasn't planned it was Malenia's doing because she was losing.
2.Why would Miquella's plan be to scarlet rot bomb Radahn and hope a random tarnished kills him? (The tarnished hadn't even arrived yet and how could he have predicted the festival, there might have been no survivors. A scarlet nuke is extremely unpredictable)
3. Miquella loves Malenia why would he put her at risk of becoming the goddess of rot? (This was before he abandoned St. Trina)
It makes more sense for the bloom to have been unplanned by Miquella, why wouldn't he want Radahn quickly instead of waiting for someone to finish Malenia's job?
@@Ratscracher Radahn is the "strongest demigod", per the lore. Miquella knew he would need something stronger than Malenia to slay someone who can control the stars (and thus Fate). Thus Miquella, like Gowry, manipulated Malenia with the promise of a cure to Scarlet Rot. Gowry learned how to make Millicent into a "Scarlet Valkyrie" by emulating Miquella. WHY do you think Gowry wants Millicent to have the needle to begin with? Why do you think she removes it if we do not betray her? She KNOWS what the needle is intended to do. That is the whole point of her questline.
Miquella uses and discards people constantly, from Mohg to Malenia. Why do you think he set Malenia loose upon the LB? He KNEW she was a ticking timebomb. He uses timebombs all the time, including at the Haligtree (Haligtree soldiers detonate, remember?) He manipulates all sides like a puppetmaster, using the Hornsent, the Needle Knights, Mohg, Mohg's bloody fingers, the Cleanrot Knights, the Misbegotten, Albinaurics, and countless other things as a ragtag wall of defenders/enforcers. There is even evidence that he made Royal Revenants, which is why so many are at the bottom of the Brace. Miquella is not a kindly soul. He is, as Ansbach states, a monster.
Every time I watch your videos, I’m inspired to try new strategies in my own game. Thanks for the ideas!
This is a great theory, I always thought the needle was akin to the medieval practice of “bloodletting”
I think there is also some connection between Radagon, needles and weaving. Radagon' s component of the Elden Ring is the woven lattice, and the description on the golden needle and thread has some more interesting information. It makes me wonder if Radagon was some able to weave the threads of fate to create new life forms, like some smith of life.
I used to think the needle worked by putting it deep into someone’s flesh and just leaving it there while it would essentially purify the bloodstream which would spread throughout the body preventing stuff like the frenzied flame from being able to truly form
The other interpretation I've heard is that the needle works as sort of lobotomy needle, which were historically made of gold due to it being non reactive metal. It makes perfect sense really since the influence of the outer gods and various other effects in the game are presented through eyes.
I think the Needle is to push inside the flesh because Millicent do it (Unfortunately for us is just classic item animation when we use the needle to heal Frenzied Flame.) but yeah, those piece of gold are there to keep her body together and not let her just rot on the ground.
For Midra, i don't think that blade block the Frenzied Flame. Miquella's needles say it pretty clear, while everything we know about Hornsents inquisition's spells and weapons are about torture and pain. Maybe the golden aura had a natural power to hold it a little, but i think it was a Saw thing like "Suffer or kill yourself removing it" Even because Midra was a failed Lord of the flame until he endured throught.... centuries of pain and despair, something that feed the Frenzied Flame until SNAP.
THANK YOU I thought it was something to do with Godwin because it’s a scaling pattern but I could never get a close enough look at it from game ❤️
I was of the opinion that Miquella’s needle was like an acupuncture needle quelling the influence of outer gods, but now I’m wondering more about just how “needle”-like some of these are. Like Midra’s greatsword of damnation, I was originally thinking it was some sort of punishment for frenzy, but now I’m thinking it’s a needle to keep frenzy at bay. Also how the people in front of Midra’s manse have their heads cut off but still retain the glowing yellow barb where their heads once were. Considering that the runes that grant life appear to be in the head (the glowing eyes of skulls in the overworld), it makes sense that taking the head and leaving in the barbs would essentially “kill” the person who otherwise could not die. It would root them to the spot and make them inert.
Interesting implications for BOC the seamster! I can't think of any in particular but the fact that he's sewing based makes me think there's something.
Also iirc gold is anti-microbial. It makes a sort of video game surreal sense that using pure gold could slow down "infection" by rot.
Tantra: to weave, (M?)Nidra: sleep. Hmm...
crazy how Malenia & Midra are connected by this fascinating little story thread
I also like the obvious connection of it being a gold needle as gold is obviously heavily connected to the Greater Will (Another Outer God). It makes sense that it would be easier to deal with one Outer Gods influence by using that of another.
This just makes me realize that both the Scarlet Rot and Frenzied Flame looked at how Marika and the Fingers structured their divine hierachy and were like great idea! My personal theory is they know inhabitants of the Lands Between are completely brainwashed and are copying it to sell their ideology easier. Though theres evidence as well the SR generally could coexist with the Golden Order as it does in the main game so its possible its some kind of twisted show of affection copying the Golden Order too.
What's crazy is look at her pauldron. That's a Scadutree! Her grieves also look like Divine Warrior grieves. I wonder how much unalloyed Gold covered the vanished land.
Also Verdigris? It's all over Farum Azula and other spots. Next time you visit Dragon Temple aka Godskin Duo arena take a look at the reliefs.
I thought about it when I noticed it while looking at her art and cutscenes 4 years back. It honestly looked like part of her flaesh to me. I just guessed it was some preventative measure. Nice to see someone make a vid about it.
It bothers me how many missed opportunities the DLC had to do lore stuff, the castanets or continuing tanith’s story, and now potentially using the needle here would have really been amazing
I mean... Miquella's needle and the thing piercing Midra look very similar. While I am not sure as to the stiching aspect, my headcanon is that Miquella has been working with Mogh for some time to learn secrets of the Hornsent. And as such he has managed to create his own version of their torture divice- one that would serve to only keep influence of Outer Gods at bay, without causing unnecessary suffering.
Miquella's needle and the repaired unallowed gold needle both have outward facing barbs similar to the stake impaling MIdra, albeit smaller. They could just be there to make it hard to remove or to make it so it doesn't fall out on its own but I wanna believe that there's some sort of sympathetic magic going on because it's cooler that way. Miquella had to mimic the form of the stake to get the forstalling efect
Interesting take. I felt that the story of Miquella stitching Melania together was already implied and loosely explained. It was obvious that what Midra was impaled with was doing the same thing as the unalloyed gold was for Melania and resisting the outer god. What’s more interesting it the idea that the Hornsent also had discovered a way to resist the outer gods. Perhaps the question is: “who did it first? Was it purely coincidental or did one take the technology/magic from the other. Being that the Hornsent were mostly crushed by Marika’s progeny it makes me wonder if this is where Miquella figured this out. The Hornsent being “sent by the horn” or in other words sent by the horns of the crucible. Cool stuff! Great video!
2:46 it's also the spot where Miquella's needle was broken ( my belief) and Gowry repairs it for us
what if the 2 outer gods are actually one and the same? Considering that Miquella wanted to create the needle solely for the scarlet rot outer god, but somehow it now works on the frenzy flame as well?
Well they do both want to melt everything away, but the rot wants to then remake what was melted away into something new.
I would say we lack the evidence to say they are the same, but they at least seem to occupy a similar existential plane in Elden Rings Universe. Not a 1x1 comparison, but I think of them as similar to HP Lovecraft's various outer gods.
@@ZayftheScholar yeah I guess so, man Elden ring lore is so intriguing
@@ZayftheScholar I've always wondered if the frenzy flame succeeded in absorbing everything back into itself if it would inherit the scarlet rots desire to make new life after absorbing it and maybe remake the universe instead of keeping everything as one for the rest of eternity. I wonder if that was the scarlet rots original purpose as part of the one great.
I think you are definitely on to something here, and it makes sense thematically, not just for Elden Ring, but for all of From's Soul series. Every game has some sort of power or authority that is trying to "stitch" their world together, in order to maintain power or rule.
There's always an era of prosperity that we never get to experience, because we are dropped in after the world has fallen into disrepair, and we are tasked to "fix" it or decide its fate.
But in every game, the method of saving the world is flawed, in that no matter how many times we "stitch" it back together, the solution will be superficial and eventually, those threads will unravel again. And every time that happens, it becomes more apparent that the world is sick and broken, while becoming harder and harder to put back together.
Much like a frayed, rotting tapestry.
The conjectures in the video are very consistent. By the way; I visited Malenia a couple of times, in case there were any new lines of dialogue after the fallen of the Miquella's enchantment on his followers in the DLC and after the fight with Miquella. I was hoping to see her aware of having been abandoned by her brother, but she kept waiting...
I wonder if there is a connection here with Radagon's Gold Sewing Needle and the way he stiched the tree shut.
absolutely.
@@ZayftheScholar It makes me think of threads of fate (weave fate ), and maybe by closing gaps you can deny fate from moving forward in some way.
I hadn’t clocked the Midras stitching but I did think it was too much of a coincidence that Miquella’s Needle is a refined version of the weapon holding the Frenzied Flame back, and I wonder if Miquella knew about it? I also don’t think Miquella sought to fight off the Outer Gods purely for the good of his sister but as part of his own plan for ascension. Two outer gods had a claim on his “promised consort” by the time Miquella’s plan was enacted; the God of Rot and the Formless Mother and I don’t see Miquella as the type to share…
This also brings to mind Radagon's lattice pattern, somewhat. I wonder if this aspect of the nature of the world is something that Miquella came to understand somehow through his relationship with Radagon, and the needle is a sort of physical manifestation of the perfection of gold (shout-out alchemy refernce!). Radagon's lattice-like rune serves to hold together/in stasis the Elden Ring, while Miquella's Needle stiching literally holds together Malenia. Idk! Just the visual and thematic similarities are interesting, something to think about! Makes me wonder if Radagon himself has something more to do with the concept of "gold" in this universe while Marila actually represents the shadow born as a result. Like she became the shadow once there was another "self" in radagon to embody the gold aspect.
Certainly seems to make the most sense- though I have to add that when we give the needle to Millicent, she is not using it to stitch her flesh together; she asks us to turn away and not watch. She cries in pain and it is over, and we never "see" what she did with it. If we go we go to Farum Azula ourselves however, we get to see what is done with Miquella's Needle that makes it effective with a vague animation: We stick it in our forehead. I never really thought about it until meeting Midra- who wails in pain with a giant needle having pierced him through his head.
While I fully believe Miquella used his Needles to stitch Unalloyed Gold into Malenia to repair the ongoing Rot, it would seem that the Needle "imbedded in the flesh" as Millicent says, is how the Needle itself is further used to ward off the power of the Outer God. In that sense it serves two purposes: to repair/hold together as a literal sewing needle, and as a imbedded pin that works internally. I want to make a joke about the golden needles being like anti-god IUDs, but the mental image just saying that is enough, haha
I have some questions about Elden Ring's setting.
I have seen a lot of gold and silver weapons and armor.
What are the material properties of gold, unalloyed gold, and silver?
Are the properties inherit or bestowed by a power?
Do the prosthetics require those properties to work?
It makes a lot of sense, stitching is always important in Elden Ring. The Godskin apostle maybe have more reason to be literally clad in the flesh of gods they've sewn together. Maybe they sought to attain their own form of godhood, only to fail because they didn't sew the God's skin directly into their flesh. Sewing is oddly important in Elden Ring, even Marika's people who was turned into the jar people were kind of "stiched together." Melding and becoming one entity in the jar, as a way to attain godhood
In Greek mythology the Fates spin the fate of mortals like threads in a loom, one spins the thread, one measures, one cuts. A loom is used to make thread for sewing hence the idea is that the Fates create a grand tapestry of life. Bringing it to ER they use the concept of a needle to stop or change the fate of the subject in question.
Something that I think is interesting is that it seems that we get to see Malenia break the needle while it's still inside if her body. When Malenia stabs herself while fighting Radahn it seems likely that her intention was to break the needle embedded so she can use the scarlet rot. This would also make sense as we find the broken needle in the Swamp of Aeonia.
Radagon's Rune.
Is HIS joining Marika what warded off the influence of the Greater Will?
That is so neat , THANK YOU!!
I thought the pattern on Malenia's body was fish scales, similar to an alternative method of treating severe burns victims. But now that you mention it it looks more woven than scaled
I can’t help but wonder what role the Needle Knights played regarding this concept.
The flower pattern on the armor on her right arm also resembles the stitching and I always thought the sword inpaled in Mira resembled the patterns in the elden beast
i like the diferences between the stiches, malenia is like replacing her skin with wool while midra is like tring to close a wound with a stapler, crudely done but will do the job
I also really love the contrast there! Miquella's stitching is so sophisticated and Midra's clearly done by an amateur.
Makes me think about the godskin stitcher weapon and godskin cloaks being stitched together
Maybe the needle is a reference to the Norns weaving the web of fate with golden thread and using water from Urðarbrunnr to prevent Yggdrasil from rotting? Elden Ring seems to borrow a lot from Norse mythology.
I actually think FromSoftware using a Needle specifically is a reference to the way they used Needles in Dark Souls 3 in the Cathedral of the Deep. The places with needles has none of the overgrown tree roots whereas the place without needles was overgrown. Taking this into account, perhaps that's the reason for using needles. Perhaps the primordial form of humanoids are trees just like the Hollows turning back into trees on the Wall of Lothric which is why the Needles can be used to hair the encroachment of a foreign entity. It's also likely why the statues in Elfael of an adult Miquella have a huge needle on them: to destroy any influence against his Haligtree. Also, unalloyed gold means it is not, and in this case cannot, be contaminated by other Orders hence why Miquella found interest in it and attempted to make divine trees with it at the Minor Erdtree Church in the Outskirts of Leyndell.
Malenia is Midra confirmed. Supported with 1hour 30 minutes video next
Don't threaten me with a good time, sir. 😂
The only “True Horror” here are the “Depts of your FOOOOLISHNESS!”
I also wanna point out the potential parallel of the golden needle and the eye of marika that messmer has. If the golden needle really is inserted into the pupil, they both probably work the same to stave off their afflictions..
Which also means that marika knew how to remedy those afflictions, like miquella later figured out, and she chose to use it on messmer, but not her later children miquella and malenia. Maybe thats because marika knew it was bad, or didnt work, or that there was a catch.. why would she help messmer but not miquella and malenia?
I find it intetesting how much Midras design echoes main game npcs/bosses. Like Malenia, but in my eyes his design echoes Gold mask even more. I wonder about what the similarities says about the gold mask's quest for truth. Was he a great prophet and erdant true believer that the threefingers turned onto chaos, by having us reveal the truth about marika to him, for its own amusement. Or was Korryn the person really being targeted, through gold mask, to turn to suffering and perhaps ultimately to the frenzied flame?
It could be that the hornsent also knew of gold needle and thread staving off outer gods. The inquisitors could have sewn him up.
Woo, great vid! 😌
Oh hey! I didn't know you were on TH-cam LittleChurchLore! I enjoyed your thread on Midra's stitches a lot 🙏
@@ZayftheScholar likewise! I love to see lore creators build off of the work of others, create new ideas/work, and cite their references. I think you did a great job and look forward to more work from you 😌🙏
After watching this video it made me realise that every character that gives in to the will of their outer god has to make a sacrifice or its a painful endeavour, Melenia and giving up her pride/succuming to the rot taking root completely must be very painful, Mirda willingly decapitating himself, Fire giant pulling off his leg, Godwyn having to die to become the death prince (up in the air if its an outer god infulance) and even Morgot seems very much pained/sickly when he phase changes since hes sealed away his acursed blood.
But one character stands separate from this Mohg seems delighted and empowered by the Formless Mother when he pierces HER form in his phase change, his vistigal wings become massive functioning wings and more blood attacks added to his arsenal, and so far he is the only character to truely accept an outer god.
The implies at least to me the idea that the outer gods are like Kami in Japanese myth they are the forces of nature. You either accept and work with them (Mohg) or you fight and resist, forced to endure pain and suffering until you snap and loose all control
the 'needle' in the biblical symbolism represents a tool that brings order, unlike its counter part, the 'spindle' which creates chaos. the book: 'the language of creation' explains this well if you are interested
I'm surprised you didn't mention that Miquella's needle is a spiral intertwining on itself just like the ones we see all throughout the hornsent culture.
(Dammit, I lost the "heart" from Zayf when I edited this to correct a typo!)
I did wonder why Boc, his needle, the Golden Needle and sewing kit were introduced early in the story, after I got into Millicent's questline. The Unalloyed Needle, makes me wonder if there are other uses for it. Can you give it to Hyetta (Irina)?
what is the song used @ 2:27 ? lovely lore video by the way.
found it, Halls of Ancients
Another thing i thought was neat was they both have infected the environment around them with their respective outergod power Midra has the abyss woods and of course Malenia when she was in Caelid
After I saw the beheaded and impaled dudes in front of the manse I assumed that’s where Miquella got the needle idea from.
It’s really interesting how these two quest lines intercept during the main game. You literally can’t escape fate as the lord of chaos without finding Millicent&Malenia who are connected to Miquella.
Oh, goodness. I thought Malenia's flesh looked like "scales." Snake skin.
Rune needle! Interesting.
Man, I've been ruminating about Radagon's connection to the sewing and needle. And the parallel to Boc's needle. Threads of fate...baby.
Interesting video. Have to think about it.
Given the dual/formerly dual nature of Miquella and St Trina, Trina being associated with Slumber, if Miq/Trina were able to influence her dreams while they left, or if there was an absence of influence after they left. Thoughts?
I always wondered how her prosthetic arm stayed on. Never noticed the spurt of blood when she locks it in place so something must pierce her. Maybe that’s where the needle is. She wasn’t wearing her arm when she bloomed in Caelid.
It's sparks. You can hear the metal grind into place as the sparks fly. Also in the battle of Aeonia where she bloomed, Radahn hacked the prosthetic arm off. If you watch the whole clip (it's on youtube) you see she has it on in the beginning, Radahn breaks it off, she grabs her blade with her left hand, and impales him and herself on the blade before blooming.