About the Aging Untouchables, they probably wanted you to sneak past them the first time, arrive at Midra's lanse and then look at the note from Midra that tells you you can parry it, making you go back and try it out. It's progression by obstructing information to the player, like in Outer Wilds. Whether or not you like it or not is up to your preferences.
this sorta difficulty and progression i totally love to be completely honest, lemme break it down. there's a game called terraria that does this best, in short, enemy's are difficult and they constantly show up at night time, progress a bit further, now the enemy's you face no longer are a threat. for some games yea this is like incredibly simple and just basic right? i might not have played all the same games you [the reader] though so keep that in mind, i normally think about stuff like spider man, or god of war, elden ring as well, in those games when you fight enemy's you progress, and don't come back often! you have no need too! soo you don't see how well you progress! some other games do this as well where the enemy's scale with you, so it's hard to tell just how much you improved, and mind you again- i haven't played like *every* single game, just most easiest example i find is terraria. i just love that dark souls found a way to do something similar in this case, because the enemy's scale REALLL high and they will just slap the hell out of you period, if you wanna know like the true strength or something you'd have to like, skip godrick, morgot, rennala, radahn etc. etc. get strong and then come back to do those area's after like hours of grinding and doing every possible side quest, from limgrave to the altus plateau to get strong. mind you i'm mostly talking about facing weaker enemy's when you get stronger, in area's you WANT to be in, and WANT to progress in, why do ya wanna go back to limgrave unless there's like one stray quest or maybe you wanna continue sellens questline? also.. holy hell i didn't expect this to get THIS long, props to you who read it through it all have a cookie :3 hope to maybe yap more possibly with peeps and game mechanic's.
This is the only thing I've disagreed with him so far (Im only part way in). Knowing you could parry them and they'd stay dead would completely sap the tension out of this section. Playing around with knowledge deficits and then giving the player that EUREKA moment can be powerful. BUT... I can also see how arbitrary and forced it is feel frustrating like telling the player your playstyle doesn't apply here and feeling like they were purposely or accidentally left out of the "know".
You said that in Dragons pit there is no dev message but I'm like 100% sure there is: "Be brave. Show no fear." - maybe you didn't notice, but for me it was pretty obvious I should jump down
Radahn is so forced to be difficult that his animation looks janky, because he just had to recover fast in order to keep the pressure going. He'll be fully crouched but then the animation will speed up and he will contort to hit you with something that just doesn't flow visually. All for the sake of gotcha attacks
This is one of the best video's I've seen on this platform. I love the way you address the viewpoints that you disagree with and dissect & analyze them through your framework. Noteably, I like how you described the difficulties in pre-nerf Radahn's cross slash by showing us the thought process of how a player would dodge it followed by a deeper analysis of how dodging, invincibility, and recovery frames work. Your humor and levity add a lot to the analysis. I entered this video thinking that I would disagree with a lot of your points, but I came out of it convinced by your analysis. Amazing video. I will for sure like, subscribe, and share this with everyone I think would find it relevant. Keep it up dude!
Had to post this somewhere, tired of these pseudo intellectual review bros in my TH-cam recommendations This video is ass. This idea that every boss encounter has to be perfect or can't have any flaws or attacks where you are forced to balance between accepting damage, block and dodge, and you have to just dodge everything is fucking stupid. So, what if Metyr beam hits You, sucks but you got hit get hit heal it off. You talk about the toxic positivity aspects of the souls community where if you criticize a game, you get abused but the points made in this video just shows another toxic side to the soul's community. Toxic negativism and destructive criticism, where the aim is to completely pick apart every encounter in the game as if every boss encounter is supposed to be built from scratch to be soloed 1 hp hitless. Point at 1:23:07 is just wrong. I know you want to sound like sound like some philosopher, but difficulty is a point, not the only one but it is one. These games are purposefully made to be challenging by the dev teams that is a part of the soul of souls' games you are just wrong, they could make the game way easier if they wanted, that is a point of this formula of games. These games are not being analyzed as games anymore. You speak about how no one can criticize these games without getting backlash, but it's come to a point where everyone overanalyzes and "criticize" these games as if the devs aren't people. No one speaks about any other games like this, everyone ego is so caught up in from soft games no one is concerned about the fun or the beauty of the game, everyone just gets mad because a boss has that one move, as if every soul's game wasn't like this to begin with. Everyone is so obsessed with this idea of "boss design" as if they are some savant game designers. Ego is the number one problem with reviewers and people like you. And its fitting that ego said it best, "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment".
The community’s reaction to Messmer and Radahn pretty much tells you the whole story. Messmer has already become one of the most highly praised and beloved boss fights in the whole series because he just gets everything right. He beat my ass for 7 hours straight on my first playthrough and I don’t think I Raged once because he was just that fun to fight, his kit is varied and complex without being overtuned, the fight doesn’t feel suffocating because you actually have time to heal (depending on your play style anyway), and his voice acting ost and lore are all just perfect. Compared to Radahn who is probably the single most controversial boss fight I’ve ever seen in a game. Fighting him pre nerf was just genuinely unfun as hell, the ironic thing is he actually took me a lot less time than Messmer to beat but I got 10x as frustrated lol. I don’t have many complaints about his first phase at all (except for the infamous cross slash) but his second phase was just too much bro. I still never hated the fight because the music, presentation and lore were all fantastic (yes I actually like the lore of the fight) plus nothing beat that feeling of pure bliss of finally just beating him. So yeah I never hated Radahn but I seriously don’t blame anyone who does. Overall dlc was still peak and I had a blast playing it. I’m now on my 4th run through of it (yes I’m an addict) and I can beat every boss comfortably on 1 try after learning their movesets. Elden ring’s biggest strength in my opinion is how replayable it is so I have no problem replaying the game in order to appreciate bosses better.
I don’t understand the criticism on Radahn, he’s supposed be the epitome of difficulty since he is the hardest and final boss. He uses teachings from previous bosses like messmer or malenia but cracked to 100 because he demands those 100 hours of playtime, on his second phase he only really gets a few new attacks and the previous ones are taken up in difficulty so demand that you master him, like you’re supposed to master every other boss, he is just what you’ve been learning but much much harder, I had fun with him ngl but that’s preference, I can only really get behind triple slash maybe and poor optimization
@@emiliojc2469but that’s the thing though is he was only harder due to artificial difficulty. Broken hitboxes, blinding nonsense in phase 2 and a close to unavoidable attack made him hard for all the wrong reasons. Phase 2 Radahn was the first time I had to search up online a guide because I couldn’t see what I was suppose to do to learn.
@@emiliojc2469 for me my biggest issue with the second phase was the fact that for most of the fight i genuinely could barley tell what was happening on my screen, there are so many light lasers, dbz afterimages, and explosions that it’s just overwhelming and blinding. I can respect the lore reason why the fight is the way it is but that isn’t gonna make me actually enjoy fighting him. However after fighting him a few times I’m definitely having more fun with it then on my first playthrough, but as a whole the boss just doesn’t feel as mechanically satisfying compared to a lot of other bosses in the game. And like i said Messmer being basically perfect makes Radahn look even worse by comparison.
@@the_soviet_smacker497I can get behind the cross slash attack and the poor optimization, but I never encountered the broken hit boxes, I think I noticed them more in messmers phase 2 than Radahn, other than that I think Radahn is a pretty good boss and I think he’s better and so much fun after the latest patch
@@emiliojc2469 oh the broken hitboxes were just when you stood further away from his sword but you still get hit. When people used a hitboxes visualiser it literally protruded so much further then is sword model. The bused hitboxes are also what caused the cross slash to be undodgable from the front
At the last section, I feel too many people have forgotten they have released a non-Souls like game last year: Armored Core VI. It’s so overlooked when in many ways it is not a souls game at all and does indeed show newer ideas, both in terms of gameplay, difficulty and even storytelling. I just don’t get the idea that all From has done is Soulslikes and nothing they’ve done in the past decade has changed, because even Sekiro feels distinctly different
Yeah, they just stuck to Souls because it’s where they can print money, then they used that money to develop other games as well. Sekiro is extremely different from Dark Souls, AC6 is different from Souls as a whole. Give them more time and you might see Tenchu, Otogi or even Kuon popping back.
@@trollaseum6174 Yup I really hope that they return to the horror genre again, and actually survival horror and not an action game with horror theme like Bloodbourne
Ain’t no way people in the comments still prefer pre nerf Radahn over what we have now, is it a cope or some joke I don’t understand. The boss is objectively better now
It got worse if you're the kind of person who bases their identity and self worth on the difficulty of the video game bosses they defeat. Unfortunately the Souls community has a tendency to breed these sorts of individuals
@@superharsh6786 and because of that we gave birth to the mess of a fight that is Radahn. They fortunately learned from this and patched him making him in my opinion an S tier fight now.
@@the_soviet_smacker497 I haven't fought him since the nerf but he always had the ingredients to be a good boss. Compare to something like Malenia who is just fundamentally a stupid idea and inherently unfixable Even before the patch, Radahn was not as stupid as Malenia is
Kind of satisfying to have done it pre nerf but i agree that it is better and more fun now. Plus it's still super hard overall. Certain moves are just easier
@@superharsh6786 personally he is now a much cleaner fight now and you don’t need guides to learn how to dodge attacks. He’s an S tier now and worth final boss for Elden Ring. Before he was such a garbage and sloppy fight, the fact that people defended it was crazy. Frametraps, framedrops, blinding, undodgable attack from the front. He was like a mid C before and is why fromsoft need to stop listening to the tryhard players that their whole personality is based off of “if I can do it hitless, it’s fair” yeah right
It’s insane how I’ve seen ppl defend the weird hit boxes simply because it’s FromSoft when the same stuff in any other game would have been met with rioting. Half the difficulty is the hit boxes most the time.
People treat souls like it isn't a videogame series and doesn't have to follow basic video game rules. I've seen people defend the stupidest ******, stuff that usually gets patched out after a month too. It's annoying.
@@VerbalIntercourse100 You might have misunderstood. Dark Souls 2 has a few comically broken hitboxes like with the mimic chests but a lot of bad hitbox examples shown from that game are people being clipped by normal attacks because they don't know adaptability is a thing, so hitboxes are the first thing to be blamed, even if they weren't the problem then.
Thanks for proving that I'm not crazy. I don't get how so many people glazed Radahn, defending him like it's their family's honor. I'm glad he got nerfed.
@Nasu This is without a doubt not only the best video you've ever made but easily the best analysis of ER/Souls combat on this platform. Honestly 10/10 video. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
The pre-Nerf Radanh critique felt like a complete mind reading, specially when he said he felt like a slur to ER combat. So glad that Fromsoft proved us wrong that they didn't only cared about raw difficulty. One of the videos which I agree with the most.
@@JoseViktor4099 It was unbelievable that he nailed literally every criticism I've had of the fight and demonstrates how one small thing can interact with the rest of his kit. It was so well done and even the bosses he praised he doesn't shy away from mentioning issues like Bayle and Dancing Lion. Absolutely wonderful analysis and this is the quality of content every 'critic' on the platform should strive to produce. Edit: I also LOVE how he dispels the common argument that ER combat is nothing but dodge/hit!
True. The amount of insight packed in here is insane. This is what separates it from the average discussion on souls combat. The last video I watched on this topic was very focused on trying to prove that wind ups in Elden Ring are unintuitive for example, which is basically impossible to prove and was also a very shallow discussion on the combat as most other aspects were just dismissed. Whereas this video goes into full detail on hitboxes and optional follow ups as well as different evasion options. And in so little time as well. Criticism is good and healthy, praise is good and healthy, but only if it's truthful and detailed enough. And here we have a healthy dose of both where it's warranted. The criticisms for Radahn being addressed so thoroughly also speaks to the fact that there's a shared understanding of what can be so good about Elden Ring combat as opposed to the accusation of people just mindlessly praising it.
I agree. It didn't feel like mindless praise but it also didn't feel disingenuous. He shows the good and the bad and how it's good and bad. It didn't feel like a shallow critique like "most of Elden ring bosses don't feel like they have openings" but instead going in depth into them. I have some disagreements but none too big and none that I feel like are objectively right.
The way I see, Elden Ring would be a much better game if it went the full action game route. That would imply incorporating the backstep and the deflect as part of the basic player toolkit, immediately increasing the skill ceiling. Having to know well when to dodge roll, deflect, backstep or jump (with better communication at jumpable attacks) would make up for a far better combat system than just "you really need to memorize those delay patterns, bro". Also, the posture bar should 100% be visible and there should be a boss rematch mechanic. The way it works now, every single RPG element is streamlined to the point where it could simply not be there: you literally gather an item to buff your stats, might as well just press a button next time. The world lacks any sense of danger and tension, which was actually THE number 1 trademark of From Software, not difficulty. So basically the open-world is a prep room for the CBT bosses awaiting you, where you just go in and scavenge for the most broken bs tools hidden out there to make that seemly impossible encounter a joke. No wonder the game is so underwhelming for most: you can just switch to the other extreme side of your "Performance vs Strategy" slider, and you basically never know where you're supposed to be in there. If some encounter is supposed to be really THAT hard, or if you're just not using the "right" tool. This comes from the fact that the game is a barebones action game, carrying a rotting corpse of RPG mechanics from past Souls games with all its mechanical limitations, and you're basically fighting against those limitations at this point.
I adore the lore, atmosphere, and look of elden ring, but I definitely agree that I want the basic formula to evolve beyond "you can jump now". Even though they've focused on these types of games for so long, Sekiro and Armored Core 6 both show how great Fromsoft are as a developer in general, and not just in the souls genre they've been typecast into (voluntarily or not) ever since they first gained more widespread public attention with Dark Souls 1.
Finally, someone who understands that bosses need to be designed around universal options instead of whatever random, optional bullshit is tucked away in some obscure corner of the game that breaks half the fights. It's cool to have more options beyond just rolling and jumping that can provide new opportunities in a fight, but that shit still needs to be possible to dodge by rolling or jumping. That "Action" half of Action/RPG needs to be respected, otherwise we get shit like Consort Radahn.
@@kim-xobro really got so bothered by a harmless joke you assume this dude has an elitist mindset based. I swear to god man this community cannot take any amount of obvious jokes, gotta spell it out loud for some of you dense no social interaction mfers
Honestly, I'm not a fan of nerfs/buffs in general. I like imbalance with some broken items/weapons and some harder bosses, even if they are a bit unfair.
@@octavianpopescu4776 Sure, but this wasn't the case. This is still probably the hardest boss in the game after the nerf and on top of it, it was unfair pre-nerf so idk how anyone could say this was a bad change
Your video structuring, style, and presentation in this vid alone is by far the best I've seen from your work. You articulated on so many points that it really felt like there's no stone unturned. Insha'Allah we make it to that 1 mill💪.
The bosses in the dlc were hard but not in a “if you learn the bosses moves you’ll get gud and win”. It was more of “we are making these bosses hard for the sake of it”, and how they accomplished it was by relying heavily on input reading, endless combos, crazy HP, dealing massive damage, closing gaps like lightning…. Making the learning curve NOT FUN. They did this because they encouraged spirit summons. Here’s a tip. Using spirit summons on these bosses erases them. It becomes so easy it’s almost (actually it is) laughable. So either use the spirit summons , a legit mechanic the game offers, and breeze thru with NO effort. Or go solo, face a design philosophy that wasn’t meant for you, and deal with unfair difficulty. The issue is balance. It’s either unfairly hard (bc solo is self imposing a challenge , which is alarming) or use the tools the game gives you and cake walk the entire thing. Those are your two options.
I liked this DLC. I found it consistent to what I had been used to on Elden Ring lategame. And the only issue I had with difficulty had been patched less than one week ago, so im very happy about it.
except for the abolutely abysmal rune drops which is the main reason I disliked it. The guy you had to kill to get into the DLC (Mohg) dropped more runes than 95 percent of the people IN the DLC.
I have nothing of substance to say, but I'm glad you made this video. It's voiced quite a few of my silent concerns I didn't even realise I had. Compliments to the chef!
People complain Skyrim's difficulty slider making you take and deal less/more damage is dumb Then Fromsoftware adds a skibidi slider that makes you take deal lless/more damage and everyone claps
@@rubanka6373 you can't pretend this simplified collectible hunt is even comparable to a fully fledged rpg leveling system With leveling there's an element of choice involved in the ecuation. And your stats have different effects on how you power up aside from just "deal more damage and take less damage" There's also the issue of runes being a standarized reward for everything while skibidi fragments are acquired from more specific sources. He specifically talks about this in the video
I absolutely hate how they implemented this system and I think the game would've been better off without it. Balance the stupid enemies so that I can fight whatever I want whenever I want without collecting stupid skibidi fragments. I'm max level, but a freaking peasant one shots me if I haven't picked up enough tree bark from every corner of the map. Elden Ring really lets you choose your own path... so long as the start of that path is zigzagging around picking up fragments for an hour.
@@unrighteous8745 yeah, I recently started a run in which I tried to reach the DLC as early as possible with a pure sorcery build and I only mannaged to get to it as a lvl 90ish I was excited to try this because the skibidi system suggested I could experience a similar challenge to my higher lvl runs due to the homogenized scaling That part was actually true. But I quickly lost interest as soon as I realized I'd have to run from skibidi to skibidi to get the first 10 or so for the third time. The way it was implemented to have these uninteresting items spread around some secluded random places or random hippo field bosses makes it get old pretty fast. It really missed the mark on what the base game did to incentivize exploration. In the base game you could go kill a specific boss or clear some dungeon in order to get a weapon/catalist/talisman/spell to kickstart your build and while you're at it everything you kill om your way there, including your main target drops souls that you could level up with In the DLC souls don't matter, so even if you massacre your way to the next skibidi, you're getting nothing until you reach said skibidi
glad to see that someone else realizes that elden is the absolute limit of the basic souls formula and how far it can be pushed. despite loving elden, even in the base game i found myself being far less engaged with the combat than i was when i played bloodborne and sekiro. and i think it's because from actually innovated with those games and their combat mechanics not just for the bosses but for the player and that's why they're so fondly remembered.
Same, Elden ring is probably one of my favorite games of all time but the dlc pushed the souls formula to its limit. The reason why Sekiro is my favorite game is because it deviated from this. I'm glad that they have decided to move to more Sekiro/Bloodborne combat for their next game.
The fact that Some items like the Deflective Hardtear last so much, or that a lot of newer weapons are so good moveset wise, Some of them even having a ranged r2, makes me think if they considered that on the DLC development. Imo, a LoP situation would be ideal if they want to elaborate more on the Souls formula. And LoP has elements more similar to DS1 , like the stamina regen, so It wouldn't be needed to speed Up the pace. If even trash bosses like pre Nerf PCR were much enjoyable with the DH alone, imagine with a mix of everything.
Real talk, fromsoft is one souls game away from being labeled as repetitive slop like assassins creed and call of duty. Elden ring is peak, you cannot continue doing this until you substantially improve your base formula. I really hope their next game is different.
I’m starting to think the camera/lock on issues are intentional at this point. I refuse to believe fromsoftware’s been doing this long enough and has barely made any progress to address these issues. A lot of the bosses that suffer from it are actually really easy once you find a work around, like not locking on for example. Elden ring dlc kind of solidified for me that they’re going down the route of “difficult for the sake of being difficult”, which I absolutely hate.
Did not expect this video to be the best SOTE analysis I’ve seen on youtube! Souls combat is still decent for an adventure rpg, but is getting old if you play these games for combat. I’d rather play monster hunter, devil may cry, or Nioh 2 for another 3000 hours than playing another play through of ER, the combat is just better.
You conclusion is true, I felt this nothingness when I first beat Melania, I wasn't joyous or proud of the evolution of my play style to beat the boss, I was just like, thank god that bullshit is over.
I loved the DLC, but it _baffles_ me how horribly designed some bosses are, with video proof of the unfair hitboxes, for example, and yet many fanboys will _still_ defend it.
Idk why so much controversy for some people to fight so much for stinkers. ER DLC have bosses that sucks like What happened before, only with bigger amount as they are more amount of bosses. Metyr suck ass, same as Halflight sucks ass, same as Leda sucks ass if you don't have friends, same as Radahn sucked ass, same as Gravetender sucks ass, same as Gank Squad suck ass. For different reasons any of these clowns.
For me it felt like the scadutree fragments Incentivised me to explore the world rather than a fetch quest. I guess I didn't really need an incentive, I just love exploring open worlds.
Honestly I had th eopposite experience. As soon as a I realized the discoverable item pool was just fragments +smithing stones I just lost all will to explore the world. I had a similar experience late in the base game.
@@BS-gk2cbSame. I like the way the base game did it with smithing stones. Like I would explore because I wanted to and not because I was afraid I'd miss that one limited number item. I could miss a catacomb here, and a ruin there, etc. With smithing stones it never felt forced because I knew I'd find "enough" just naturally. It felt like gaining exp but was literally physical items
I love the whole “You’re complaining about a souls game being too difficult?! ThE gAmeS KNOWN fOR TheIR DIFFICULTY?!? HURRRR DURRR GIT GUD SCRUB ERRRRRR” Like moistpantycritikal parroted in his half baked video lol. Even though I personally didn’t have an issue with the difficulty the sentiment that well it’s a FS game what do you expect? Is just stupid.
Since I normally 100% an area and move on, the shadow tree fragments worked great for me, yet I can agree with the criticism that it entails much more careful exploration than the base game, I just personally found that to be a plus.
And I’ll also say, by doing this n maxing out, the only bosses that gave me any real challenge (wanting to throw my shit across the room) were messmer and radahan.
100% this. For people like me who cant stand leaving a single portion of an area unexplored before moving on this DLC went over way better. you naturally get as powerful as you need. For people that liked to beat bosses first or skip around to clearly later game areas, not so much.
There are so much excellent takes in this video. I found myself agreeing with almost everything you said. Regarding the end of the video though, I don't think Fromsoftware didn't invent anything crucial and stayed in the "roll+R1" territory with the Elden Ring. Stance breaks as a new core gameplay loop(and the means to exploit it with charged, jumping and guard counter R2's) is a proof of that. It is not a completely new idea as it exists in Sekiro but just like you said its purpose are different and it doesn't provide an insta-kill. This alone for me makes it something more than "iteration". I also loved that your insistance of the importance of the stance-break mechanic and to judge a boss design regarding if it's consistent in this aspect. Besides, the fact that they are making games like BB, Sekiro and Armored Core in between the "souls" games is a testament that they are a very open minded company instead of milking the same thing again and again without introducing anything new. There are so many good devs in Fromsoftware that I don't think they will go in the same way as, let's say, Ubisoft or Bethesda at least for a long time. Thanks so much for this video. It was simply a masterpiece. Humor was also very funny and just with the right amount. Congratulations Nasu!
Huge souls fan but they went too far in the wrong direction with Elden Ring in numerous ways. I have nothing against hard games, even though I'd argue most of the Dark Souls trilogy isn't very hard. Shadow of the Erdtree, on the other hand, went too far with endless attacks you have to dodge and evade. It's just not fun. Completed the DLC on two characters, completely solo and didn't get stuck noteworthy in any particular spot. But it wasn't particularly fun. That's my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
I am NG + and Level 205, i found the game not so hard so far. but iam using summons, so maybe it blends my vision. I think the game is solo sooo much harder
@@shpendberisha9153 It's not too hard. It's stupid. Not fun. Stupid. Whatever you wanna call it. Like I said, I've finished the entire game, including the DLC more than once. I ran thorugh with my RL50 with +10 weapons since my last reply. I didn't enjoy it, though. It's not fun to do avoidance for 15-40 seconds between each time you attack. Challenging? Sure. Hard? Mentally, yes. Fun? Nope, not even a little. It sucks.
I think elden ring is the extreme of meeting in the middle. There is a lot of reaction speed required, but there are such an incredible amount of openings which aren't easy to see in elden ring for the harder bosses. I think it still meets in the middle like other souls games with puzzle and reaction time elements, but just to an extreme where both are much more difficult. The only reason the extreme difficulty is acceptable is because the equipment and other options are way stronger than previous souls games. In elden ring, using magic + spirit ashes allows me to beat pretty much every boss without learning the bosses. That happened far less in other souls games for me.
the hardest thing in the dlc is when miquell usses the light of miquella attack and the frames suddenly drop from 50 to 5.The nerf made it to drop from 50 to 15 but still bad.They could've added at least an in game frame cap.Radahn was mediocre after I finally decided 4 scadutree blessing ain't gonna cut it.
This is one of those videos that majority of the fromsoft "fanbase" needs to see and actually listen to. We will never get rid of the brainless and terminally online that respond to every bit of criticism with "skill issue" or "get good" but at least we can at least give some of them a chance to escape the echo chamber of reddit threads and comments on TH-cam videos that they didn't even remotely listen to. I just believe genuinely nuanced conversations and discussion of different opinions breeds productivity so fromsoft can make more bangers with more constructive feedback because they don't have to sift through all the copypasta bs. That's further proven with all the fanmade games inspired by fromsoft's work that are getting alot of praise. Games at bare minimum should be fun and interaction with a toxic community takes away from that.
You also forget people also spreading misinformation, and people dismissing disagreements with criticims as brainless cultishness, even though discussions can come from disagreeing with both praise, and criticism depending on the context. Neither are productive either, but the community overall needs to have more reasonable back and forth discussion as you said. I haven't been this exhausted with the community in years, and it's something I left other game communities for.
@user-pn4px5lr8w you're right discussion can come from both points on the graph and the misinformation is ridiculous. You wanna see conversations go from bad to worse tell any of them any sort of criticism on invasions. It never fails.
This video was fantastic and went far more in depth than others I have seen. Thank god they needed that double slash, however the fight is still very similar difficulty, just less bs.
What's this? One of my favorite youtubers dropped a new video essay that they worked hard on? Can't wait for a bigger content creator to make a reaction to this video that gets twice as many views as the original because that's how the algorithm works
Get rid of input reading also stop putting sekiro bosses in a game that plays like dark souls, they just want to one up in difficulty from game to game while not giving you enough options to deal with a problem. I've played literally all the souls games and i've noticed how they always want to want it harder and harder, it's just not fun.
Its not for me personally. I have over 1000 hours in elden ring. I have played the main game about 15 times through. 6 of those being since the dlc was released. Ive played the dlc twice. I just dont enjoy how little margin for error there is in the dlc. I also didnt find the exploration all that rewarding.
First off, excellent video with very fair takes. You clearly put the time in, and so I know you actually know what you're talking about. I have yet to fight post-nerf Radahn, but I put many hours into learning him in the weeks following SotE's release. Like you, I had a major issue with how difficult it was to break his posture compared to other bosses, and with dodging his infamous undodgeable slash, but I eventually found the solution to both these problems in the form of deflecting and guard countering. Once I realized you can dodge the second slash after eating the first, I figured I should use a shield to catch the first slash before rolling through the second and third. Once my muscle memory was accustomed to blocking as soon as I saw his left shoulder twitch, I was finally able to consistently avoid damage on that attack. Additionally, I found that the straight sword and greatsword (when two-handed) have swift enough guard counters to fit into several of Radahn's combos without getting in the way of your ability to roll in time. For instance, you can always land a guard counter in the brief pause right before the earthquake slam in his most basic combo. Use of the Deflecting Hardtear with proper timing makes this strategy even more viable (and gives you much higher physical damage negation when blocking with a two-handed greatsword). Once I started doing this, I found myself breaking his posture far more reliably. It's true that Radahn doesn't really reward use of jumping or strafing like other bosses do, but he allows for a good deal of skill expression with a shield. I also found that the issues with visibility in his second phase become largely negligible once you reach a certain level of mastery over his first phase. I don't argue with people who say the poor visibility is bullshit or bad design, because hey, maybe it is. But I personally found that clearly seeing his animations was not necessary with enough developed muscle memory. It made me feel like Malenia (in other words, like a blind master swordsman). Ultimately, I really came to enjoy Consort Radahn, and consider him one of the most fun fights in the entire game, up there with Godfrey, Morgott and Messmer, and I do hope that time will be kind to this boss. I have yet to see how well I personally like the fight after the nerf, but I'm glad that more people now find him more enjoyable to fight.
I think you can make really hard bosses and still allow the player to drink, which is why the bosses in the dlc are annoying. Why even give us a health flask.
@@Guanjyn free heals removes tension and chip damage stops mattering. it wont force the player to make a choice or gives the choice weight. DS1 had a problem where it was difficult for bosses to kill you because you could just chug after every hit unless it's the dlc.
Romina’s butterfly thing is just an easier to dodge deathbird ghost flame tennis shot. You just have to visualize it as the lower half of the orange lantern corp logo and walk to either the right or left until you are out of butterfly aoe
I can't believe there are ppl think Radahn was nerfed like crazy. They literally made the fight more perfect now. But huge kudos to ppl who fought him pre-nerf tho.
How the fuck is this the first time I'm finding your channel? First you're in with nuanced, insightful, and charitble criticism, but also there's a deliberation to your use of language I don't see often. And then Margit anime monologue! Subbed right there. When you were breaking down your Rellana strat I thought initially that damn you know your stuff, and then thought if I ever see your handle in fighting game lobby I'm about to get my ass kicked so skillfully I won't even be salty.
I really liked Shadow of the Erdtree, it was even my first souls release (going into a souls release I mean). I think it’s a 10/10 but just because I give it that doesn’t mean I don’t have problems with it. The exploration was absolutely fantastic, it was DS1 but open world, the layering idea was an amazing touch and is now unlike any other open world game. Shadow Keep also might be one of the best areas in gaming period due to how much interconnectivity it has to like 4 whole areas. But the problem I have with the exploration is that the rewards are not worth the exploration. You’d already have PLENTY of the smithing stones it gives you by the time you enter the DLC. Also I think the world felt a bit TOO open between areas, there should’ve been more mini dungeons see Cerulean Coast, Charo’s Hidden Grave, and Finger Ruins. I thought the Scadu fragments were handled really really well, they encourage exploration. I loved all the bosses (I’ll get to Radahn), Messmer surpassed the hype. OST was peak. Weapons were peak. Wish we got more of the NPCs but I loved all the characters. Legacy Dungeons were great ESPECIALLY Shadow Keep. Lore was just as intriguing and speculative as always. And the art direction was absolutely incredible BEYOND PEAK. Base game will never look the same again lmao. Now for Radahn. I actually liked him lol, but I 100% see why he was so controversial. For me the visuals were not a problem at all I could see the attacks through all the lights and hair. I had all of his attacks seared into my brain, so it wasn’t a problem for me. The problems I had with the fight was the triple slice, unclear hit boxes on the teleportation attacks, and the prioritization of hugging his right leg the whole fight. Patch was great tho. Those are my thoughts, would like to have conversations in the replies :)
@@smith3136 Because when people say “10/10 masterpiece” to media they like it’s not actually entirely truthful (except Lord of the Rings that’s a genuine masterpiece). So when I say 10/10 that’s what I consider it as because I loved it so much. And when people say that they aren’t thinking about the issues with the thing they like. Is the show Arcane a perfect masterpiece? Is Dark Souls a masterpiece? Is anything a masterpiece? People don’t care when they say 10/10 masterpieces bc they just want to love the incredible media, that’s why.
@@smith3136they are just numbers that hold little to no meaning. 10/10 rarely means that ”its perfect” but more like ”I want more things like this” or ”The problems I have with this game don’t affect my enjoyment of it” I have never seen a perfect video game. Even the smallest nitpick could be distracting, but when something is so good, we just don’t care.
Beating randahn first week of realeased really gave me a feeling of "fucking finally its over" rather than "fuck yeah i did it" and it did sour the experience for me, also his poise was definitely bs, in the 20 ish tries that it took me to beat him i only managed to stance break him once with heavy star first
Also the tree fragments I feel like they didn't do shit for damage and defence, I was constantly getting Molly wopped in two or three hits through DLC. Im not complaining, we have 10+ estus flasks so like we're supposed to be weak to enemy attacks
In the next game instead of making the bosses more insane just remove the player's greatest defense option, the dodge roll, not remove it but remove the s and now we're in business, now we have to avoid attacks entirely and something like Radahn cannot exist because there's no way to beat him without s, they would have to simplify the bosses and allow multiple ways of negating or avoiding damage. It'll actually be a harder game to develop I think but much better. The reason rollcatch, frame trap and delayed attacks exists is because they can't balance the bosses against players clicking the invincibility button, basically I want a Monster hunter type combat but with fromsoft's presentation, it'd be sick!
That might be kind of difficult. For a fun fact; DS2 hitboxes aren't overall specially egregious compared to the other games, but they aren't afar for Some issues. The main one is the mechanic that completely limits your I-frames, making the roll feel worse because for how little the rolls are on comparison. Even a hit on your foot counts, and thats was mistakenly considered as a bad weapon hitbox for a lot of time. I would imagine that they should watch the hitboxes very well in order to not feel very rough unlike what happened back on DS2.
@@JoseViktor4099 If the enemy hits my foot, it shouldn't count for as much damage, kinda like how if you partially parry an enemy in Elden ring, you get chip damage and hella stamina damage, they could do the same thing. Right now blocking isn't very fun because it kills your stamina and it costs you the ability to dual wield or 2 hand a weapon. Strafing is kinda random because of high tracking, but if we didn't have s, they can't design a boss like Radahn who just turns 180 in a few milliseconds to hit ya. The tracking wouldn't be so stupid and the enemies would need to have weight to their movement. It would actually be a lot harder to design boss fights but I think fighting bosses would be more intuitive. I mean what sense does it make to roll through Gaiuss' boar or roll through sword attacks instead of backing off or just getting outta the way or blocking
@@glisteninggames2981 I'm not looking for more challenge by not rolling, I want rolling to not be the default way to deal with every attack, we should be trying to evade or block or counter instead of just pressing the invincibility button and having the entire challenge of the game be based on how well you time the button press. Because that's what the most challenging fights in Elden ring are
@@PeterEhik I think there's a way to achieve this without getting rid of the safety net of rolling. Elden Ring already partially does it: Lingering Hitboxes on some attacks. They make it so you have to properly dodge in a way that makes sense, because ending up with a weapon inside of your body still catches you, but at the same time getting clipped slightly isn't an issue. If this got expanded and with each move having a roll direction which perfectly matches not having to clip through weapons, we would have something good, I think.
Fantastic video, dude. I am looking forward to see if FromSoft also takes a further look at the less stellar bosses like Metyr or Gaius and makes them more enjoyable. Also, regarding that sentiment at the end, you are likely to be in luck because around the time of the DLC's drop, Miyazaki had an interview stating how he wanted to iterate further on Bloodborne and Sekiro's designs. So I'd say we can definitely expect something of the sort on his next games.
I felt less bad about Radahn to the point of feeling cheated. I'm str/fth unga bunga so stagger and poise break is my bread and butter. So I was having a lot of trouble breaking poise, heck, most bosses and even some enemies don't even stagger. I still managed to win mainly by stance breaking, despite it requiring a lot of my effort and face tanking some damage. Consort of Radahn I can't for my life poise break him unless I use the best of the best for it. Even with Lion Claw is pretty hard! Even if I try to force and face tank damage, he kills me first, even with 60 vig, scadu 19 heavy armor with highest physical defense and golden vow. After patch I still can't see most of the attacks because of the hair, the light effects and the need to be close to him (making the camera allow me to see part of his body) to have a chance to land a hit in time. I would never have known if I hadn't seen this video. Not only does it make me frustrated to barely see, breathe or learn because I die in 5s at his second phase (I really don't want to watch tutorials, but it's so tiring to only have a chance if I memorize something that I can't even see), but I also feel like my build is invalid (or extra extra gard) just because Amazing video
I love sneaking in guard counters to bosses when they have long attack combos with delays spiced in between. Like the game gives you few punish windows because it's encouraging you to make more yourself by way of wittling down their posture
Nasu yet again perfectly vocalizing my thoughts in a way I never could. Bro eloquently and clearly makes his point, while simultaneously understanding that this shit is nuanced as fuck. I find it genuinely hard to argue against these takes, and not just because I agree with them.
You can also sidestep the first stab after Messmer throws pocket sand, get a swing in, and either roll or jump the subsequent sweep. A fair bit of his kit is jumpable from stabs to sweeps, and I absolutely adore how that, as it gives another layer of expression, should you choose. You can even sprint away as he readies his corkscrew, and slap him with a jumping heavy. He is definitely one of the goats.
After the Nerfs, I catually enjoyed the Radahn fight, and after fighting without a cheese build on my second run I finally beat him after 3 hours, he's much better now
so far i’ve beaten all the souls games including Sekiro and I’ve gotten pretty comfortable with the whole playstyle. First tried Midir, second tried sword saint isshin, and went back to do a no hit run on Inner Isshin. And before the nerf Radahn took me multiple tries to beat him again. To me he’s the hardest boss fromsoft has ever made and I don’t know if that’s in a good way
The beauty of the souls games is the in game difficulty slider in the form of leveling your charachtee and equipment. Fromsoft did do this with the DLC and im very happy about that (although fragments shouldve been behind bosses like in sekiro) For me, as a challenge runner, I want to be able to increase the difficulty of my runs and the new blessings add a layer to that slider which I appreciate Only distaste I have is nerfing a boss instead of adjusting hitboxes which I feel creates an extra step in downpatching to get back the difficulty I enjoy the challenge and putting myself through many attempts to learn a boss. Even if it took me 300+ tries to kill pre nerf radahn at rl1 with a +0 weapon and no blessings that immense challenge gave the biggest sense of accomplishment Ive had in a game Thats the feeling we chase and the aformentioned difficulty slider helps amplify that feeling as the bigger the feat the bigger the relief by the way to correct you on radahn 1-2x slash pre nerf (had to master him to get a wl0 rl1 sb0 hitless) its consistently dodgeable only when by his right knee, left leg doesnt work trust me, as you roll late enough to avoid lingering hitboxes on his left sword while also rolling both swipes in one roll. this made the fight a go left simulator as thats the only way to dodge it without rolling instantly with inhuman reactions and no malenia does not have the same requirement as waterfowl can be consistently dodged at all ranges ps pre nerfs radahns biggest issue is that meteors from afar has 0 counterplay for no hit. For phase two you ideally want to be positioned in the middle of the arena actually cuz meteors at the wall is not dodgeable. In my kill I had to sacrifice many windows to get a free ”runback” to the centre
FS shouldn't be designing games for challenge runners. That would be dumb. Ur an extremely minor part of the community. And waterfowl is still fucking shit. It can't be dodged consistently at all if ur in anything but light roll and if u can't do the spin around her technique.
20:55 I think the truth is a little bit simpler... The devs wrote in plain English that you have to avoid the old untouchable... Until you reach Midra's manor where you find a note from one of the resident saying He touched it. He was so affraid he accidentally deflected his stick with his shield, and than he touched it. He touched an old untouchable. Myazaki just wanted you to feel that horor vibe for the 1rst playthrough...
99 in each stat is great but that’s not how you get better in the DLC. You get the fragments and better armor and maybe even buffs. That same NPC did 1/8 of my HP with his biggest hit in my run and I was at 160 or so with 60 vigor. It works out similarly to the base game and there are way easier enemies than him and plenty of fragments available without killing a single boss. That NPC is there for shock value for sure though. Edit 2: there is also a dev message next to that black pit, like 8 feet back from where you were. You’re right about the message about killing the big guys being weird though. Edit 3: the aging untouchable messages are different from standard dev messages written by a frightened resident, the hint to parry them is found on a note inside the manse itself. Edit 4: yeah the death blight lion is bullshit, as are a few of the other moves. Glad I’m not no-hitting anything. Overall minor differences of opinion, good video. Sorry if my diabolical autism bothers anyone.
Genuinely torrent combat feels like ocarina of time horse combat kinda just disappointed that games have not evolved horse combat in the last 30 years I don't know a single game that I've played where the horse combat has felt different. I love Elden Ring I love from software but I am not a horse combat enjoyer in any game I have ever played
I enjoyed pretty much everything up until Radahn. Due to a move, I only fought him post-patch and I still found him obnoxious. It wasn't just difficulty: Malenia took me longer. Heck, Darkeater Midir took me longer. I just didn't like how unclear it was how you were intended to dodge his attacks. I eventually just resorted to tanking certain attacks, which was enough to get me by. I may like him better on repeat playthroughs. It happened with Orphan of Kos, it could happen here too. Still, I just ended up unimpressed. That said, the DLC is great overall, with proportionally fewer misses in boss design than most From games, so I'm happy.
I think some attack were design with Sekiro tear in mind cuz if u can't dodge it JUST DEFLECT IT ! Very cool , but it being mandatory to not take damage from (close to) unavoidable might not be the best design decision Yet in some fights it shows that they were design with it in mind
Frankly I think the arms race between the players and souls series was a mistake from the start and Radahn shows why. It's the same reason you don't get in an arms race with your players as a dungeon master in D&D. Eventually you'll bend and break the rule, enough where you win because you hold all the cards. I know it is possible to one or two shot Radahn but do you want to funnel people towards such a feast or famine way of engaging with the culmination of everything you've built? No, better to accept that some veterans will have an easy time and a select few will pull off ridiculous challenge runs to large audiences (which they are still doing with Elden Ring anyway). Anyway I just learned of the patch which does have me interested in giving him another go. I have solo'd the rest of the dlc but decided it wasn't worth it at Radahn.
I am convinced the people who complained about overtuned damage never realized that armor is actually useful. I went in with the full tree sentinel set, dragoncrest and opaline hardtear and was usually getting 3-4 shotted at worst even at low scadu levels. The lion at scadu lvl 1? No problem. Rellana at scadu lvl 3? Still less than 15 tries.
You can dodge the METYR laser by standing between the laser and the boss. There is a circular moat of safety around the boss were you just cannot get hit by standing there. Video of me using the safety moat coming soon.
Sometimes you can. The laser moves in and out and I've definitely been in spots where there was no room even on the inside, which is clearly the intended way they wanted you to do it.
I found that to be inconsistent too. The few times I fought Metyr I tried to avoid it that way and every time something hit me for massive damage. Even if visually the laser or the ground AOE didn't even reach me. Something is very broken with that attack.
There are, at least in my understanding, two reasons why Elden Ring and it's DLC have caused so much polarization: 1. It's mainstream now. Elden Ring was such a smash it that Fromsoft is essentially part of pop culture at this point. Many new players who have never played a game like those in the souls series are being introduced to this style of game, and many are coming away with the wrong interpretations of it. It also doesn't help that veteran players are gatekeeping more than ever, as this flood of new gamers has caused even more elitism as to how the game "should" be played. 2. Fromsoft set out to push the souls combat system to it's absolute limit with this game, and succeeded. Many fights in both the base game and DLC teeter right on the line between fair and unfair. I personally like this daring challenge, but sometimes I can understand how people may get overwhelmed with fights in this game, as they are more demanding than ever. This is especially true for the newer players who might still be trying to learn the combat system to begin with, much less master it.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
About the Aging Untouchables, they probably wanted you to sneak past them the first time, arrive at Midra's lanse and then look at the note from Midra that tells you you can parry it, making you go back and try it out.
It's progression by obstructing information to the player, like in Outer Wilds. Whether or not you like it or not is up to your preferences.
nt, jewbani
this sorta difficulty and progression i totally love to be completely honest, lemme break it down.
there's a game called terraria that does this best, in short, enemy's are difficult and they constantly show up at night time, progress a bit further, now the enemy's you face no longer are a threat.
for some games yea this is like incredibly simple and just basic right? i might not have played all the same games you [the reader] though so keep that in mind, i normally think about stuff like spider man, or god of war, elden ring as well, in those games when you fight enemy's you progress, and don't come back often! you have no need too! soo you don't see how well you progress!
some other games do this as well where the enemy's scale with you, so it's hard to tell just how much you improved, and mind you again- i haven't played like *every* single game, just most easiest example i find is terraria.
i just love that dark souls found a way to do something similar in this case, because the enemy's scale REALLL high and they will just slap the hell out of you period, if you wanna know like the true strength or something you'd have to like, skip godrick, morgot, rennala, radahn etc. etc. get strong and then come back to do those area's after like hours of grinding and doing every possible side quest, from limgrave to the altus plateau to get strong.
mind you i'm mostly talking about facing weaker enemy's when you get stronger, in area's you WANT to be in, and WANT to progress in, why do ya wanna go back to limgrave unless there's like one stray quest or maybe you wanna continue sellens questline?
also.. holy hell i didn't expect this to get THIS long, props to you who read it through it all have a cookie :3 hope to maybe yap more possibly with peeps and game mechanic's.
This is the only thing I've disagreed with him so far (Im only part way in). Knowing you could parry them and they'd stay dead would completely sap the tension out of this section. Playing around with knowledge deficits and then giving the player that EUREKA moment can be powerful. BUT... I can also see how arbitrary and forced it is feel frustrating like telling the player your playstyle doesn't apply here and feeling like they were purposely or accidentally left out of the "know".
@austin0_bandit05 My issue is. It's not clear even with that hint that, it's telling you to parry them.
hence wasting a lot of time on a pointless backtracking, yes.
At 12:10 there actually is a Dev message nearby that strongly implies that you have to jump into the pit
"Be fearless" and then a big open pit... Shouldn't take a genius to figure that out lol
Yeah, even I knew that. And I'm an idiot who needs a guide for most puzzles. =V
i didnt even know that, i just jumped in because i thought there was a floor and i got trolled
You said that in Dragons pit there is no dev message but I'm like 100% sure there is: "Be brave. Show no fear." - maybe you didn't notice, but for me it was pretty obvious I should jump down
It bugged for me, it was inside the floor halfway
Agree i figured it out on my own
Nasu the type of person to drop a 1 hour elden ring essay AFTER I eat
Is that right?
Literally just finished eating and reloaded my home page to find this vid '_>'
Does it take you a whole hour to eat?
@@VeiledFlameAlchemist Marika’s TITS
Why do people watch videos when eating ? Wierdos
Radahn is so forced to be difficult that his animation looks janky, because he just had to recover fast in order to keep the pressure going. He'll be fully crouched but then the animation will speed up and he will contort to hit you with something that just doesn't flow visually. All for the sake of gotcha attacks
They fixed him alr
@@johnnyg4659they didn't . He still is mediocre
@@mihaimercenarul7467 unpopular opinion lmao
@@Niklas0369 is that a bad thing?
@@mihaimercenarul7467 No but why saying that in the first place.
The fact that PCR was nerfed including the visibility issues in the 2nd phase means FromSoftware also realized that those issues exist at least.
This is one of the best video's I've seen on this platform. I love the way you address the viewpoints that you disagree with and dissect & analyze them through your framework. Noteably, I like how you described the difficulties in pre-nerf Radahn's cross slash by showing us the thought process of how a player would dodge it followed by a deeper analysis of how dodging, invincibility, and recovery frames work. Your humor and levity add a lot to the analysis. I entered this video thinking that I would disagree with a lot of your points, but I came out of it convinced by your analysis. Amazing video. I will for sure like, subscribe, and share this with everyone I think would find it relevant. Keep it up dude!
Get it out of your mouth
Had to post this somewhere, tired of these pseudo intellectual review bros in my TH-cam recommendations
This video is ass. This idea that every boss encounter has to be perfect or can't have any flaws or attacks where you are forced to balance between accepting damage, block and dodge, and you have to just dodge everything is fucking stupid. So, what if Metyr beam hits You, sucks but you got hit get hit heal it off. You talk about the toxic positivity aspects of the souls community where if you criticize a game, you get abused but the points made in this video just shows another toxic side to the soul's community. Toxic negativism and destructive criticism, where the aim is to completely pick apart every encounter in the game as if every boss encounter is supposed to be built from scratch to be soloed 1 hp hitless.
Point at 1:23:07 is just wrong. I know you want to sound like sound like some philosopher, but difficulty is a point, not the only one but it is one. These games are purposefully made to be challenging by the dev teams that is a part of the soul of souls' games you are just wrong, they could make the game way easier if they wanted, that is a point of this formula of games.
These games are not being analyzed as games anymore. You speak about how no one can criticize these games without getting backlash, but it's come to a point where everyone overanalyzes and "criticize" these games as if the devs aren't people. No one speaks about any other games like this, everyone ego is so caught up in from soft games no one is concerned about the fun or the beauty of the game, everyone just gets mad because a boss has that one move, as if every soul's game wasn't like this to begin with.
Everyone is so obsessed with this idea of "boss design" as if they are some savant game designers. Ego is the number one problem with reviewers and people like you. And its fitting that ego said it best, "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment".
exactly this. I was about to comment an essay about how phenomenal made this video was but you took the words out of my mouth. i’m proudly glazing.
Radahn was so bad that it made me go out and discover and beat one of the greatest games ever made (NieR automata) before returning to kill him
The community’s reaction to Messmer and Radahn pretty much tells you the whole story. Messmer has already become one of the most highly praised and beloved boss fights in the whole series because he just gets everything right. He beat my ass for 7 hours straight on my first playthrough and I don’t think I Raged once because he was just that fun to fight, his kit is varied and complex without being overtuned, the fight doesn’t feel suffocating because you actually have time to heal (depending on your play style anyway), and his voice acting ost and lore are all just perfect.
Compared to Radahn who is probably the single most controversial boss fight I’ve ever seen in a game. Fighting him pre nerf was just genuinely unfun as hell, the ironic thing is he actually took me a lot less time than Messmer to beat but I got 10x as frustrated lol. I don’t have many complaints about his first phase at all (except for the infamous cross slash) but his second phase was just too much bro. I still never hated the fight because the music, presentation and lore were all fantastic (yes I actually like the lore of the fight) plus nothing beat that feeling of pure bliss of finally just beating him. So yeah I never hated Radahn but I seriously don’t blame anyone who does. Overall dlc was still peak and I had a blast playing it. I’m now on my 4th run through of it (yes I’m an addict) and I can beat every boss comfortably on 1 try after learning their movesets. Elden ring’s biggest strength in my opinion is how replayable it is so I have no problem replaying the game in order to appreciate bosses better.
I don’t understand the criticism on Radahn, he’s supposed be the epitome of difficulty since he is the hardest and final boss. He uses teachings from previous bosses like messmer or malenia but cracked to 100 because he demands those 100 hours of playtime, on his second phase he only really gets a few new attacks and the previous ones are taken up in difficulty so demand that you master him, like you’re supposed to master every other boss, he is just what you’ve been learning but much much harder, I had fun with him ngl but that’s preference, I can only really get behind triple slash maybe and poor optimization
@@emiliojc2469but that’s the thing though is he was only harder due to artificial difficulty. Broken hitboxes, blinding nonsense in phase 2 and a close to unavoidable attack made him hard for all the wrong reasons. Phase 2 Radahn was the first time I had to search up online a guide because I couldn’t see what I was suppose to do to learn.
@@emiliojc2469 for me my biggest issue with the second phase was the fact that for most of the fight i genuinely could barley tell what was happening on my screen, there are so many light lasers, dbz afterimages, and explosions that it’s just overwhelming and blinding. I can respect the lore reason why the fight is the way it is but that isn’t gonna make me actually enjoy fighting him. However after fighting him a few times I’m definitely having more fun with it then on my first playthrough, but as a whole the boss just doesn’t feel as mechanically satisfying compared to a lot of other bosses in the game. And like i said Messmer being basically perfect makes Radahn look even worse by comparison.
@@the_soviet_smacker497I can get behind the cross slash attack and the poor optimization, but I never encountered the broken hit boxes, I think I noticed them more in messmers phase 2 than Radahn, other than that I think Radahn is a pretty good boss and I think he’s better and so much fun after the latest patch
@@emiliojc2469 oh the broken hitboxes were just when you stood further away from his sword but you still get hit. When people used a hitboxes visualiser it literally protruded so much further then is sword model. The bused hitboxes are also what caused the cross slash to be undodgable from the front
At the last section, I feel too many people have forgotten they have released a non-Souls like game last year: Armored Core VI. It’s so overlooked when in many ways it is not a souls game at all and does indeed show newer ideas, both in terms of gameplay, difficulty and even storytelling. I just don’t get the idea that all From has done is Soulslikes and nothing they’ve done in the past decade has changed, because even Sekiro feels distinctly different
Yeah, they just stuck to Souls because it’s where they can print money, then they used that money to develop other games as well. Sekiro is extremely different from Dark Souls, AC6 is different from Souls as a whole.
Give them more time and you might see Tenchu, Otogi or even Kuon popping back.
@@MaidenlessScrub fromsoft making a new Kuon game or another japanese style horror game would be a godsend
@@trollaseum6174 Yup I really hope that they return to the horror genre again, and actually survival horror and not an action game with horror theme like Bloodbourne
Nah, Armored Core was mid.
@@fernandofaria2872 nah if it was mid then the game industry is doomed because gamers’ standards are absurd
The pigs fly joke was way funnier than it had any right to be
Just unfortunately it was the wrong way around :/
Sice what he said would happen when pigs fly didn't
Ain’t no way people in the comments still prefer pre nerf Radahn over what we have now, is it a cope or some joke I don’t understand. The boss is objectively better now
It got worse if you're the kind of person who bases their identity and self worth on the difficulty of the video game bosses they defeat. Unfortunately the Souls community has a tendency to breed these sorts of individuals
@@superharsh6786 and because of that we gave birth to the mess of a fight that is Radahn. They fortunately learned from this and patched him making him in my opinion an S tier fight now.
@@the_soviet_smacker497 I haven't fought him since the nerf but he always had the ingredients to be a good boss. Compare to something like Malenia who is just fundamentally a stupid idea and inherently unfixable
Even before the patch, Radahn was not as stupid as Malenia is
Kind of satisfying to have done it pre nerf but i agree that it is better and more fun now. Plus it's still super hard overall. Certain moves are just easier
@@superharsh6786 personally he is now a much cleaner fight now and you don’t need guides to learn how to dodge attacks. He’s an S tier now and worth final boss for Elden Ring.
Before he was such a garbage and sloppy fight, the fact that people defended it was crazy. Frametraps, framedrops, blinding, undodgable attack from the front. He was like a mid C before and is why fromsoft need to stop listening to the tryhard players that their whole personality is based off of “if I can do it hitless, it’s fair” yeah right
It’s insane how I’ve seen ppl defend the weird hit boxes simply because it’s FromSoft when the same stuff in any other game would have been met with rioting. Half the difficulty is the hit boxes most the time.
People treat souls like it isn't a videogame series and doesn't have to follow basic video game rules. I've seen people defend the stupidest ******, stuff that usually gets patched out after a month too. It's annoying.
Dark Souls 2 fans in a nutshell.
@@VerbalIntercourse100 You might have misunderstood. Dark Souls 2 has a few comically broken hitboxes like with the mimic chests but a lot of bad hitbox examples shown from that game are people being clipped by normal attacks because they don't know adaptability is a thing, so hitboxes are the first thing to be blamed, even if they weren't the problem then.
Thanks for proving that I'm not crazy. I don't get how so many people glazed Radahn, defending him like it's their family's honor. I'm glad he got nerfed.
What? He was almost universally hated.
@@evilfungas yeah. Now people seem to like him a lot more, but its still not 100%
@@BlacklistedSoupreally? he’s very fair now or you’re talking about something else
@@evilfungas yeah, almost. I'm talking about the people who said he was good.
@@marvcollins7842ehhh I can see how people think that. First phase (besides the bs move that everyone knows) is good and the ost is amazing.
@Nasu
This is without a doubt not only the best video you've ever made but easily the best analysis of ER/Souls combat on this platform. Honestly 10/10 video. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
bbq cheese u a reoccurring character in the souls youtubeverse🎉
The pre-Nerf Radanh critique felt like a complete mind reading, specially when he said he felt like a slur to ER combat. So glad that Fromsoft proved us wrong that they didn't only cared about raw difficulty.
One of the videos which I agree with the most.
@@JoseViktor4099
It was unbelievable that he nailed literally every criticism I've had of the fight and demonstrates how one small thing can interact with the rest of his kit. It was so well done and even the bosses he praised he doesn't shy away from mentioning issues like Bayle and Dancing Lion. Absolutely wonderful analysis and this is the quality of content every 'critic' on the platform should strive to produce.
Edit:
I also LOVE how he dispels the common argument that ER combat is nothing but dodge/hit!
True.
The amount of insight packed in here is insane. This is what separates it from the average discussion on souls combat.
The last video I watched on this topic was very focused on trying to prove that wind ups in Elden Ring are unintuitive for example, which is basically impossible to prove and was also a very shallow discussion on the combat as most other aspects were just dismissed.
Whereas this video goes into full detail on hitboxes and optional follow ups as well as different evasion options. And in so little time as well.
Criticism is good and healthy, praise is good and healthy, but only if it's truthful and detailed enough.
And here we have a healthy dose of both where it's warranted.
The criticisms for Radahn being addressed so thoroughly also speaks to the fact that there's a shared understanding of what can be so good about Elden Ring combat as opposed to the accusation of people just mindlessly praising it.
I agree. It didn't feel like mindless praise but it also didn't feel disingenuous. He shows the good and the bad and how it's good and bad. It didn't feel like a shallow critique like "most of Elden ring bosses don't feel like they have openings" but instead going in depth into them. I have some disagreements but none too big and none that I feel like are objectively right.
The way I see, Elden Ring would be a much better game if it went the full action game route. That would imply incorporating the backstep and the deflect as part of the basic player toolkit, immediately increasing the skill ceiling. Having to know well when to dodge roll, deflect, backstep or jump (with better communication at jumpable attacks) would make up for a far better combat system than just "you really need to memorize those delay patterns, bro". Also, the posture bar should 100% be visible and there should be a boss rematch mechanic.
The way it works now, every single RPG element is streamlined to the point where it could simply not be there: you literally gather an item to buff your stats, might as well just press a button next time. The world lacks any sense of danger and tension, which was actually THE number 1 trademark of From Software, not difficulty. So basically the open-world is a prep room for the CBT bosses awaiting you, where you just go in and scavenge for the most broken bs tools hidden out there to make that seemly impossible encounter a joke. No wonder the game is so underwhelming for most: you can just switch to the other extreme side of your "Performance vs Strategy" slider, and you basically never know where you're supposed to be in there. If some encounter is supposed to be really THAT hard, or if you're just not using the "right" tool. This comes from the fact that the game is a barebones action game, carrying a rotting corpse of RPG mechanics from past Souls games with all its mechanical limitations, and you're basically fighting against those limitations at this point.
I adore the lore, atmosphere, and look of elden ring, but I definitely agree that I want the basic formula to evolve beyond "you can jump now". Even though they've focused on these types of games for so long, Sekiro and Armored Core 6 both show how great Fromsoft are as a developer in general, and not just in the souls genre they've been typecast into (voluntarily or not) ever since they first gained more widespread public attention with Dark Souls 1.
Finally, someone who understands that bosses need to be designed around universal options instead of whatever random, optional bullshit is tucked away in some obscure corner of the game that breaks half the fights. It's cool to have more options beyond just rolling and jumping that can provide new opportunities in a fight, but that shit still needs to be possible to dodge by rolling or jumping. That "Action" half of Action/RPG needs to be respected, otherwise we get shit like Consort Radahn.
Bro finally finished the DLC
😂😂
@@daeve915😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣=🤓🤓🤓🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
bro still hasn't fixed his elitist mindset
@@kim-xobro really got so bothered by a harmless joke you assume this dude has an elitist mindset based. I swear to god man this community cannot take any amount of obvious jokes, gotta spell it out loud for some of you dense no social interaction mfers
*Cries in dying to Radahn still*
Post-nerf Radahn is a much better boss. Good thing they did it.
Went from a very messy okay boss with potential to one of my favorite fights now
I liked it before the nerf now is just perfect
Honestly, I'm not a fan of nerfs/buffs in general. I like imbalance with some broken items/weapons and some harder bosses, even if they are a bit unfair.
@@octavianpopescu4776 Sure, but this wasn't the case. This is still probably the hardest boss in the game after the nerf and on top of it, it was unfair pre-nerf so idk how anyone could say this was a bad change
@@ioverslept.Umm he still is mediocre af
Your video structuring, style, and presentation in this vid alone is by far the best I've seen from your work. You articulated on so many points that it really felt like there's no stone unturned. Insha'Allah we make it to that 1 mill💪.
Insha Allah 🤝
Nasu back from the dead with a 1.5 hour soulsborne video essay?
Im in
The bosses in the dlc were hard but not in a “if you learn the bosses moves you’ll get gud and win”. It was more of “we are making these bosses hard for the sake of it”, and how they accomplished it was by relying heavily on input reading, endless combos, crazy HP, dealing massive damage, closing gaps like lightning…. Making the learning curve NOT FUN.
They did this because they encouraged spirit summons. Here’s a tip. Using spirit summons on these bosses erases them. It becomes so easy it’s almost (actually it is) laughable.
So either use the spirit summons , a legit mechanic the game offers, and breeze thru with NO effort. Or go solo, face a design philosophy that wasn’t meant for you, and deal with unfair difficulty.
The issue is balance. It’s either unfairly hard (bc solo is self imposing a challenge , which is alarming) or use the tools the game gives you and cake walk the entire thing. Those are your two options.
I liked this DLC. I found it consistent to what I had been used to on Elden Ring lategame. And the only issue I had with difficulty had been patched less than one week ago, so im very happy about it.
I’m so happy for you dude
Love that for you
except for the abolutely abysmal rune drops which is the main reason I disliked it.
The guy you had to kill to get into the DLC (Mohg) dropped more runes than 95 percent of the people IN the DLC.
@@DeadpoolX9 but at this point in the game why do you even care about runes?
@@DeadpoolX9 Lmao 10k runes for a Furnace Golem that takes 20 mins to kill
there's no way you kill furnace golem for runes@@Plz8662
I have nothing of substance to say, but I'm glad you made this video. It's voiced quite a few of my silent concerns I didn't even realise I had. Compliments to the chef!
People complain Skyrim's difficulty slider making you take and deal less/more damage is dumb
Then Fromsoftware adds a skibidi slider that makes you take deal lless/more damage and everyone claps
Just like leveling up in the base game lmao
@@rubanka6373 you can't pretend this simplified collectible hunt is even comparable to a fully fledged rpg leveling system
With leveling there's an element of choice involved in the ecuation. And your stats have different effects on how you power up aside from just "deal more damage and take less damage"
There's also the issue of runes being a standarized reward for everything while skibidi fragments are acquired from more specific sources. He specifically talks about this in the video
"and everyone claps"
Idk bro, I saw some not so pleased people out there when the DLC dropped 😂 that was like, the biggest complaint
I absolutely hate how they implemented this system and I think the game would've been better off without it. Balance the stupid enemies so that I can fight whatever I want whenever I want without collecting stupid skibidi fragments. I'm max level, but a freaking peasant one shots me if I haven't picked up enough tree bark from every corner of the map. Elden Ring really lets you choose your own path... so long as the start of that path is zigzagging around picking up fragments for an hour.
@@unrighteous8745 yeah, I recently started a run in which I tried to reach the DLC as early as possible with a pure sorcery build and I only mannaged to get to it as a lvl 90ish
I was excited to try this because the skibidi system suggested I could experience a similar challenge to my higher lvl runs due to the homogenized scaling
That part was actually true. But I quickly lost interest as soon as I realized I'd have to run from skibidi to skibidi to get the first 10 or so for the third time.
The way it was implemented to have these uninteresting items spread around some secluded random places or random hippo field bosses makes it get old pretty fast. It really missed the mark on what the base game did to incentivize exploration.
In the base game you could go kill a specific boss or clear some dungeon in order to get a weapon/catalist/talisman/spell to kickstart your build and while you're at it everything you kill om your way there, including your main target drops souls that you could level up with
In the DLC souls don't matter, so even if you massacre your way to the next skibidi, you're getting nothing until you reach said skibidi
glad to see that someone else realizes that elden is the absolute limit of the basic souls formula and how far it can be pushed. despite loving elden, even in the base game i found myself being far less engaged with the combat than i was when i played bloodborne and sekiro. and i think it's because from actually innovated with those games and their combat mechanics not just for the bosses but for the player and that's why they're so fondly remembered.
Sekiro = the goat.
Same, Elden ring is probably one of my favorite games of all time but the dlc pushed the souls formula to its limit. The reason why Sekiro is my favorite game is because it deviated from this. I'm glad that they have decided to move to more Sekiro/Bloodborne combat for their next game.
The fact that Some items like the Deflective Hardtear last so much, or that a lot of newer weapons are so good moveset wise, Some of them even having a ranged r2, makes me think if they considered that on the DLC development.
Imo, a LoP situation would be ideal if they want to elaborate more on the Souls formula. And LoP has elements more similar to DS1 , like the stamina regen, so It wouldn't be needed to speed Up the pace. If even trash bosses like pre Nerf PCR were much enjoyable with the DH alone, imagine with a mix of everything.
Real talk, fromsoft is one souls game away from being labeled as repetitive slop like assassins creed and call of duty. Elden ring is peak, you cannot continue doing this until you substantially improve your base formula. I really hope their next game is different.
I’m starting to think the camera/lock on issues are intentional at this point. I refuse to believe fromsoftware’s been doing this long enough and has barely made any progress to address these issues. A lot of the bosses that suffer from it are actually really easy once you find a work around, like not locking on for example. Elden ring dlc kind of solidified for me that they’re going down the route of “difficult for the sake of being difficult”, which I absolutely hate.
Idk if I’d say “intentional”, but they’re certainly aware of it
Did not expect this video to be the best SOTE analysis I’ve seen on youtube! Souls combat is still decent for an adventure rpg, but is getting old if you play these games for combat. I’d rather play monster hunter, devil may cry, or Nioh 2 for another 3000 hours than playing another play through of ER, the combat is just better.
It's good to have you back Nasu!
Yoooo the breakdown of Radahn's fight pre-nerf was awesome. I've watched a lot of reviews and no one else went that deep. Instant sub. Great video!
You conclusion is true, I felt this nothingness when I first beat Melania, I wasn't joyous or proud of the evolution of my play style to beat the boss, I was just like, thank god that bullshit is over.
I loved the DLC, but it _baffles_ me how horribly designed some bosses are, with video proof of the unfair hitboxes, for example, and yet many fanboys will _still_ defend it.
Idk why so much controversy for some people to fight so much for stinkers. ER DLC have bosses that sucks like What happened before, only with bigger amount as they are more amount of bosses.
Metyr suck ass, same as Halflight sucks ass, same as Leda sucks ass if you don't have friends, same as Radahn sucked ass, same as Gravetender sucks ass, same as Gank Squad suck ass.
For different reasons any of these clowns.
Everything in this dlc was fair until radahn, Im not gonna lie.
he's good now after the patch tbf
The lag, teleports, flash bangs, looked like a fanmade boss lmao, took a while to understand his shit
No it wasn't, having to collect a bunch of arbitrary collectibles just to even the odds is stupid and inorganic
For me is not that Radahn difficulty was too difficult, more than the difficulty wasn´t for the best reasons. Glad he is much cleaner now.
@@TheExFatali didnt go out of my way at all to get them and im still +15 by radahn
For me it felt like the scadutree fragments Incentivised me to explore the world rather than a fetch quest. I guess I didn't really need an incentive, I just love exploring open worlds.
I mean, they just fulfill the same purpose as runes really.
@@vandalic8566 that's what I'm saying
Honestly I had th eopposite experience. As soon as a I realized the discoverable item pool was just fragments +smithing stones I just lost all will to explore the world. I had a similar experience late in the base game.
@@BS-gk2cb that's fair, but idk what it is, I just really love exploring, even if the loot ends up being ass.
@@BS-gk2cbSame. I like the way the base game did it with smithing stones. Like I would explore because I wanted to and not because I was afraid I'd miss that one limited number item. I could miss a catacomb here, and a ruin there, etc. With smithing stones it never felt forced because I knew I'd find "enough" just naturally. It felt like gaining exp but was literally physical items
I love the whole “You’re complaining about a souls game being too difficult?! ThE gAmeS KNOWN fOR TheIR DIFFICULTY?!? HURRRR DURRR GIT GUD SCRUB ERRRRRR” Like moistpantycritikal parroted in his half baked video lol. Even though I personally didn’t have an issue with the difficulty the sentiment that well it’s a FS game what do you expect? Is just stupid.
A full hour 30 minute video from Nasu, damn the passion is real.
32:54 You didn't summon Igon?! CURSE YOU NASU! I HEREBY VOW YOU WILL RUE THAT DAY!
Nasu rlly dropped a 1 hr special episode and I’m all here for it
Since I normally 100% an area and move on, the shadow tree fragments worked great for me, yet I can agree with the criticism that it entails much more careful exploration than the base game, I just personally found that to be a plus.
And I’ll also say, by doing this n maxing out, the only bosses that gave me any real challenge (wanting to throw my shit across the room) were messmer and radahan.
100% this. For people like me who cant stand leaving a single portion of an area unexplored before moving on this DLC went over way better. you naturally get as powerful as you need. For people that liked to beat bosses first or skip around to clearly later game areas, not so much.
There are so much excellent takes in this video. I found myself agreeing with almost everything you said.
Regarding the end of the video though, I don't think Fromsoftware didn't invent anything crucial and stayed in the "roll+R1" territory with the Elden Ring. Stance breaks as a new core gameplay loop(and the means to exploit it with charged, jumping and guard counter R2's) is a proof of that. It is not a completely new idea as it exists in Sekiro but just like you said its purpose are different and it doesn't provide an insta-kill. This alone for me makes it something more than "iteration". I also loved that your insistance of the importance of the stance-break mechanic and to judge a boss design regarding if it's consistent in this aspect.
Besides, the fact that they are making games like BB, Sekiro and Armored Core in between the "souls" games is a testament that they are a very open minded company instead of milking the same thing again and again without introducing anything new. There are so many good devs in Fromsoftware that I don't think they will go in the same way as, let's say, Ubisoft or Bethesda at least for a long time.
Thanks so much for this video. It was simply a masterpiece. Humor was also very funny and just with the right amount. Congratulations Nasu!
Much appreciated!
I will become the Elden Lord, dattebayo!
I just got to 17 minutes and I’m thinking “this vid’s almost over, dam.
This video is 1 hour and 24 minutes long.
Lmao so true
Huge souls fan but they went too far in the wrong direction with Elden Ring in numerous ways. I have nothing against hard games, even though I'd argue most of the Dark Souls trilogy isn't very hard. Shadow of the Erdtree, on the other hand, went too far with endless attacks you have to dodge and evade. It's just not fun. Completed the DLC on two characters, completely solo and didn't get stuck noteworthy in any particular spot. But it wasn't particularly fun. That's my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
I am NG + and Level 205, i found the game not so hard so far. but iam using summons, so maybe it blends my vision. I think the game is solo sooo much harder
@@shpendberisha9153 It's not too hard. It's stupid. Not fun. Stupid.
Whatever you wanna call it. Like I said, I've finished the entire game, including the DLC more than once. I ran thorugh with my RL50 with +10 weapons since my last reply. I didn't enjoy it, though.
It's not fun to do avoidance for 15-40 seconds between each time you attack. Challenging? Sure. Hard? Mentally, yes. Fun? Nope, not even a little. It sucks.
I think elden ring is the extreme of meeting in the middle.
There is a lot of reaction speed required, but there are such an incredible amount of openings which aren't easy to see in elden ring for the harder bosses.
I think it still meets in the middle like other souls games with puzzle and reaction time elements, but just to an extreme where both are much more difficult.
The only reason the extreme difficulty is acceptable is because the equipment and other options are way stronger than previous souls games.
In elden ring, using magic + spirit ashes allows me to beat pretty much every boss without learning the bosses. That happened far less in other souls games for me.
the hardest thing in the dlc is when miquell usses the light of miquella attack and the frames suddenly drop from 50 to 5.The nerf made it to drop from 50 to 15 but still bad.They could've added at least an in game frame cap.Radahn was mediocre after I finally decided 4 scadutree blessing ain't gonna cut it.
This is one of those videos that majority of the fromsoft "fanbase" needs to see and actually listen to. We will never get rid of the brainless and terminally online that respond to every bit of criticism with "skill issue" or "get good" but at least we can at least give some of them a chance to escape the echo chamber of reddit threads and comments on TH-cam videos that they didn't even remotely listen to. I just believe genuinely nuanced conversations and discussion of different opinions breeds productivity so fromsoft can make more bangers with more constructive feedback because they don't have to sift through all the copypasta bs. That's further proven with all the fanmade games inspired by fromsoft's work that are getting alot of praise. Games at bare minimum should be fun and interaction with a toxic community takes away from that.
You also forget people also spreading misinformation, and people dismissing disagreements with criticims as brainless cultishness, even though discussions can come from disagreeing with both praise, and criticism depending on the context. Neither are productive either, but the community overall needs to have more reasonable back and forth discussion as you said. I haven't been this exhausted with the community in years, and it's something I left other game communities for.
@user-pn4px5lr8w you're right discussion can come from both points on the graph and the misinformation is ridiculous. You wanna see conversations go from bad to worse tell any of them any sort of criticism on invasions. It never fails.
Legitimately the best analysis of the DLC difficulty I’ve seen, really got into the nitty gritty of the design. Very well done 👍
You should also watch Joseph Andersons if you haven’t
@@Sephirothkingdom782 I have, good video
So waiting for a Black Friday sale was the right choice...
The big man dropped a mf MOVIE. Bless you, lord, for this feast 🙏
So this is the rumored Elden Ring movie.
Getting popcorn.
This video was fantastic and went far more in depth than others I have seen. Thank god they needed that double slash, however the fight is still very similar difficulty, just less bs.
2:58 that asmond cut off killed me lol
It feels like FROM now makes games for content creators willing to break mechanics.
The rest of us are just along for the ride.
😂😂😂
What's this? One of my favorite youtubers dropped a new video essay that they worked hard on? Can't wait for a bigger content creator to make a reaction to this video that gets twice as many views as the original because that's how the algorithm works
Sad but true.
i’m just picturing hassan walking away for the entire video
Get rid of input reading also stop putting sekiro bosses in a game that plays like dark souls, they just want to one up in difficulty from game to game while not giving you enough options to deal with a problem. I've played literally all the souls games and i've noticed how they always want to want it harder and harder, it's just not fun.
4:44 Unnecessary translator note for maximum immersion
Its not for me personally. I have over 1000 hours in elden ring. I have played the main game about 15 times through. 6 of those being since the dlc was released. Ive played the dlc twice.
I just dont enjoy how little margin for error there is in the dlc. I also didnt find the exploration all that rewarding.
First off, excellent video with very fair takes. You clearly put the time in, and so I know you actually know what you're talking about.
I have yet to fight post-nerf Radahn, but I put many hours into learning him in the weeks following SotE's release. Like you, I had a major issue with how difficult it was to break his posture compared to other bosses, and with dodging his infamous undodgeable slash, but I eventually found the solution to both these problems in the form of deflecting and guard countering. Once I realized you can dodge the second slash after eating the first, I figured I should use a shield to catch the first slash before rolling through the second and third. Once my muscle memory was accustomed to blocking as soon as I saw his left shoulder twitch, I was finally able to consistently avoid damage on that attack.
Additionally, I found that the straight sword and greatsword (when two-handed) have swift enough guard counters to fit into several of Radahn's combos without getting in the way of your ability to roll in time. For instance, you can always land a guard counter in the brief pause right before the earthquake slam in his most basic combo. Use of the Deflecting Hardtear with proper timing makes this strategy even more viable (and gives you much higher physical damage negation when blocking with a two-handed greatsword). Once I started doing this, I found myself breaking his posture far more reliably. It's true that Radahn doesn't really reward use of jumping or strafing like other bosses do, but he allows for a good deal of skill expression with a shield.
I also found that the issues with visibility in his second phase become largely negligible once you reach a certain level of mastery over his first phase. I don't argue with people who say the poor visibility is bullshit or bad design, because hey, maybe it is. But I personally found that clearly seeing his animations was not necessary with enough developed muscle memory. It made me feel like Malenia (in other words, like a blind master swordsman).
Ultimately, I really came to enjoy Consort Radahn, and consider him one of the most fun fights in the entire game, up there with Godfrey, Morgott and Messmer, and I do hope that time will be kind to this boss. I have yet to see how well I personally like the fight after the nerf, but I'm glad that more people now find him more enjoyable to fight.
Your video is Perfect.
It perfectly sums up every complaint I had with the dlc, and I adore this dlc.
Tryhard fans who only care about harder and harder bosses are the worst thing that exist in community
I think you can make really hard bosses and still allow the player to drink, which is why the bosses in the dlc are annoying. Why even give us a health flask.
just don't get greedy with it, all it takes is to give up a damage opening to heal. It's not impossible nor should it be free.
@@Ghorda9 Agree to disagree. Having fewer damage openings doesn't make the fight better and often times hurts the flow of combat.
@@Guanjyn then just don't get hit? heals should never be free.
@@Ghorda9 Why?
@@Guanjyn free heals removes tension and chip damage stops mattering. it wont force the player to make a choice or gives the choice weight. DS1 had a problem where it was difficult for bosses to kill you because you could just chug after every hit unless it's the dlc.
Romina’s butterfly thing is just an easier to dodge deathbird ghost flame tennis shot. You just have to visualize it as the lower half of the orange lantern corp logo and walk to either the right or left until you are out of butterfly aoe
I can't believe there are ppl think Radahn was nerfed like crazy. They literally made the fight more perfect now. But huge kudos to ppl who fought him pre-nerf tho.
How the fuck is this the first time I'm finding your channel? First you're in with nuanced, insightful, and charitble criticism, but also there's a deliberation to your use of language I don't see often. And then Margit anime monologue! Subbed right there. When you were breaking down your Rellana strat I thought initially that damn you know your stuff, and then thought if I ever see your handle in fighting game lobby I'm about to get my ass kicked so skillfully I won't even be salty.
finally a new video from the throat goat himself. love ya nasu, i will enjoy eating dinner to this one. thanks
I really liked Shadow of the Erdtree, it was even my first souls release (going into a souls release I mean). I think it’s a 10/10 but just because I give it that doesn’t mean I don’t have problems with it. The exploration was absolutely fantastic, it was DS1 but open world, the layering idea was an amazing touch and is now unlike any other open world game. Shadow Keep also might be one of the best areas in gaming period due to how much interconnectivity it has to like 4 whole areas. But the problem I have with the exploration is that the rewards are not worth the exploration. You’d already have PLENTY of the smithing stones it gives you by the time you enter the DLC. Also I think the world felt a bit TOO open between areas, there should’ve been more mini dungeons see Cerulean Coast, Charo’s Hidden Grave, and Finger Ruins.
I thought the Scadu fragments were handled really really well, they encourage exploration. I loved all the bosses (I’ll get to Radahn), Messmer surpassed the hype. OST was peak. Weapons were peak. Wish we got more of the NPCs but I loved all the characters. Legacy Dungeons were great ESPECIALLY Shadow Keep. Lore was just as intriguing and speculative as always. And the art direction was absolutely incredible BEYOND PEAK. Base game will never look the same again lmao.
Now for Radahn. I actually liked him lol, but I 100% see why he was so controversial. For me the visuals were not a problem at all I could see the attacks through all the lights and hair. I had all of his attacks seared into my brain, so it wasn’t a problem for me. The problems I had with the fight was the triple slice, unclear hit boxes on the teleportation attacks, and the prioritization of hugging his right leg the whole fight. Patch was great tho.
Those are my thoughts, would like to have conversations in the replies :)
dont vote or reproduce. thanks
If you have problem with it why is it 10/10?
@@smith3136 Because when people say “10/10 masterpiece” to media they like it’s not actually entirely truthful (except Lord of the Rings that’s a genuine masterpiece). So when I say 10/10 that’s what I consider it as because I loved it so much. And when people say that they aren’t thinking about the issues with the thing they like. Is the show Arcane a perfect masterpiece? Is Dark Souls a masterpiece? Is anything a masterpiece? People don’t care when they say 10/10 masterpieces bc they just want to love the incredible media, that’s why.
@@smith3136they are just numbers that hold little to no meaning. 10/10 rarely means that ”its perfect” but more like ”I want more things like this” or ”The problems I have with this game don’t affect my enjoyment of it”
I have never seen a perfect video game. Even the smallest nitpick could be distracting, but when something is so good, we just don’t care.
@@high.level.noob. Ahh i see. It's more like expression instead of a score.
Beating randahn first week of realeased really gave me a feeling of "fucking finally its over" rather than "fuck yeah i did it" and it did sour the experience for me, also his poise was definitely bs, in the 20 ish tries that it took me to beat him i only managed to stance break him once with heavy star first
I think it's dumb that Mohg's shackle doesn't work. i mean, it's Mogh's corpse right???
It should work at least in the first phase.
Also the tree fragments I feel like they didn't do shit for damage and defence, I was constantly getting Molly wopped in two or three hits through DLC. Im not complaining, we have 10+ estus flasks so like we're supposed to be weak to enemy attacks
In the next game instead of making the bosses more insane just remove the player's greatest defense option, the dodge roll, not remove it but remove the s and now we're in business, now we have to avoid attacks entirely and something like Radahn cannot exist because there's no way to beat him without s, they would have to simplify the bosses and allow multiple ways of negating or avoiding damage. It'll actually be a harder game to develop I think but much better. The reason rollcatch, frame trap and delayed attacks exists is because they can't balance the bosses against players clicking the invincibility button, basically I want a Monster hunter type combat but with fromsoft's presentation, it'd be sick!
i'd recommend getting into no-roll challenges if thats your thing. there's a whole community in this game that do that stuff
That might be kind of difficult. For a fun fact; DS2 hitboxes aren't overall specially egregious compared to the other games, but they aren't afar for Some issues.
The main one is the mechanic that completely limits your I-frames, making the roll feel worse because for how little the rolls are on comparison. Even a hit on your foot counts, and thats was mistakenly considered as a bad weapon hitbox for a lot of time.
I would imagine that they should watch the hitboxes very well in order to not feel very rough unlike what happened back on DS2.
@@JoseViktor4099 If the enemy hits my foot, it shouldn't count for as much damage, kinda like how if you partially parry an enemy in Elden ring, you get chip damage and hella stamina damage, they could do the same thing. Right now blocking isn't very fun because it kills your stamina and it costs you the ability to dual wield or 2 hand a weapon. Strafing is kinda random because of high tracking, but if we didn't have s, they can't design a boss like Radahn who just turns 180 in a few milliseconds to hit ya. The tracking wouldn't be so stupid and the enemies would need to have weight to their movement. It would actually be a lot harder to design boss fights but I think fighting bosses would be more intuitive. I mean what sense does it make to roll through Gaiuss' boar or roll through sword attacks instead of backing off or just getting outta the way or blocking
@@glisteninggames2981 I'm not looking for more challenge by not rolling, I want rolling to not be the default way to deal with every attack, we should be trying to evade or block or counter instead of just pressing the invincibility button and having the entire challenge of the game be based on how well you time the button press. Because that's what the most challenging fights in Elden ring are
@@PeterEhik I think there's a way to achieve this without getting rid of the safety net of rolling. Elden Ring already partially does it: Lingering Hitboxes on some attacks. They make it so you have to properly dodge in a way that makes sense, because ending up with a weapon inside of your body still catches you, but at the same time getting clipped slightly isn't an issue. If this got expanded and with each move having a roll direction which perfectly matches not having to clip through weapons, we would have something good, I think.
This by far one of the best videos you’ve dropped
Fantastic video, dude. I am looking forward to see if FromSoft also takes a further look at the less stellar bosses like Metyr or Gaius and makes them more enjoyable.
Also, regarding that sentiment at the end, you are likely to be in luck because around the time of the DLC's drop, Miyazaki had an interview stating how he wanted to iterate further on Bloodborne and Sekiro's designs. So I'd say we can definitely expect something of the sort on his next games.
I love being Radahn's untrained, touch-starved Chihuahua
I felt less bad about Radahn to the point of feeling cheated.
I'm str/fth unga bunga so stagger and poise break is my bread and butter. So I was having a lot of trouble breaking poise, heck, most bosses and even some enemies don't even stagger. I still managed to win mainly by stance breaking, despite it requiring a lot of my effort and face tanking some damage. Consort of Radahn I can't for my life poise break him unless I use the best of the best for it. Even with Lion Claw is pretty hard! Even if I try to force and face tank damage, he kills me first, even with 60 vig, scadu 19 heavy armor with highest physical defense and golden vow. After patch I still can't see most of the attacks because of the hair, the light effects and the need to be close to him (making the camera allow me to see part of his body) to have a chance to land a hit in time.
I would never have known if I hadn't seen this video. Not only does it make me frustrated to barely see, breathe or learn because I die in 5s at his second phase (I really don't want to watch tutorials, but it's so tiring to only have a chance if I memorize something that I can't even see), but I also feel like my build is invalid (or extra extra gard) just because
Amazing video
I love sneaking in guard counters to bosses when they have long attack combos with delays spiced in between. Like the game gives you few punish windows because it's encouraging you to make more yourself by way of wittling down their posture
that margit anime section really is how it goes during most anime haha
Nasu yet again perfectly vocalizing my thoughts in a way I never could. Bro eloquently and clearly makes his point, while simultaneously understanding that this shit is nuanced as fuck. I find it genuinely hard to argue against these takes, and not just because I agree with them.
This is one of the greatest Elden Ring videos I've ever seen, learnt so much! Thanks man!
You can also sidestep the first stab after Messmer throws pocket sand, get a swing in, and either roll or jump the subsequent sweep. A fair bit of his kit is jumpable from stabs to sweeps, and I absolutely adore how that, as it gives another layer of expression, should you choose. You can even sprint away as he readies his corkscrew, and slap him with a jumping heavy. He is definitely one of the goats.
After the Nerfs, I catually enjoyed the Radahn fight, and after fighting without a cheese build on my second run I finally beat him after 3 hours, he's much better now
Babe wake up new Nasu vid dropped
so far i’ve beaten all the souls games including Sekiro and I’ve gotten pretty comfortable with the whole playstyle. First tried Midir, second tried sword saint isshin, and went back to do a no hit run on Inner Isshin. And before the nerf Radahn took me multiple tries to beat him again. To me he’s the hardest boss fromsoft has ever made and I don’t know if that’s in a good way
The beauty of the souls games is the in game difficulty slider in the form of leveling your charachtee and equipment. Fromsoft did do this with the DLC and im very happy about that (although fragments shouldve been behind bosses like in sekiro)
For me, as a challenge runner, I want to be able to increase the difficulty of my runs and the new blessings add a layer to that slider which I appreciate
Only distaste I have is nerfing a boss instead of adjusting hitboxes which I feel creates an extra step in downpatching to get back the difficulty
I enjoy the challenge and putting myself through many attempts to learn a boss. Even if it took me 300+ tries to kill pre nerf radahn at rl1 with a +0 weapon and no blessings that immense challenge gave the biggest sense of accomplishment Ive had in a game
Thats the feeling we chase and the aformentioned difficulty slider helps amplify that feeling as the bigger the feat the bigger the relief
by the way to correct you on radahn 1-2x slash pre nerf (had to master him to get a wl0 rl1 sb0 hitless) its consistently dodgeable only when by his right knee, left leg doesnt work trust me, as you roll late enough to avoid lingering hitboxes on his left sword while also rolling both swipes in one roll. this made the fight a go left simulator as thats the only way to dodge it without rolling instantly with inhuman reactions
and no malenia does not have the same requirement as waterfowl can be consistently dodged at all ranges
ps pre nerfs radahns biggest issue is that meteors from afar has 0 counterplay for no hit. For phase two you ideally want to be positioned in the middle of the arena actually cuz meteors at the wall is not dodgeable. In my kill I had to sacrifice many windows to get a free ”runback” to the centre
FS shouldn't be designing games for challenge runners. That would be dumb. Ur an extremely minor part of the community.
And waterfowl is still fucking shit. It can't be dodged consistently at all if ur in anything but light roll and if u can't do the spin around her technique.
Love the video bro. Found your channel a minute ago and I be itchin for them new uploads lol. My guy dropped a feature film this time🤌🏼🤌🏼🤌🏼
20:55 I think the truth is a little bit simpler...
The devs wrote in plain English that you have to avoid the old untouchable... Until you reach Midra's manor where you find a note from one of the resident saying
He touched it. He was so affraid he accidentally deflected his stick with his shield, and than he touched it. He touched an old untouchable.
Myazaki just wanted you to feel that horor vibe for the 1rst playthrough...
99 in each stat is great but that’s not how you get better in the DLC. You get the fragments and better armor and maybe even buffs. That same NPC did 1/8 of my HP with his biggest hit in my run and I was at 160 or so with 60 vigor. It works out similarly to the base game and there are way easier enemies than him and plenty of fragments available without killing a single boss. That NPC is there for shock value for sure though.
Edit 2: there is also a dev message next to that black pit, like 8 feet back from where you were. You’re right about the message about killing the big guys being weird though.
Edit 3: the aging untouchable messages are different from standard dev messages written by a frightened resident, the hint to parry them is found on a note inside the manse itself.
Edit 4: yeah the death blight lion is bullshit, as are a few of the other moves. Glad I’m not no-hitting anything. Overall minor differences of opinion, good video. Sorry if my diabolical autism bothers anyone.
Genuinely torrent combat feels like ocarina of time horse combat kinda just disappointed that games have not evolved horse combat in the last 30 years I don't know a single game that I've played where the horse combat has felt different. I love Elden Ring I love from software but I am not a horse combat enjoyer in any game I have ever played
I've missed you soo much
I will die on the hill that Scadutree fragments were the dumbest idea ever created
I enjoyed pretty much everything up until Radahn. Due to a move, I only fought him post-patch and I still found him obnoxious. It wasn't just difficulty: Malenia took me longer. Heck, Darkeater Midir took me longer. I just didn't like how unclear it was how you were intended to dodge his attacks. I eventually just resorted to tanking certain attacks, which was enough to get me by. I may like him better on repeat playthroughs. It happened with Orphan of Kos, it could happen here too. Still, I just ended up unimpressed.
That said, the DLC is great overall, with proportionally fewer misses in boss design than most From games, so I'm happy.
Howl of Shaboingboing is now my favorite term 27:04
I think some attack were design with Sekiro tear in mind cuz if u can't dodge it JUST DEFLECT IT ! Very cool , but it being mandatory to not take damage from (close to) unavoidable might not be the best design decision
Yet in some fights it shows that they were design with it in mind
4:36 this is too peak
Frankly I think the arms race between the players and souls series was a mistake from the start and Radahn shows why. It's the same reason you don't get in an arms race with your players as a dungeon master in D&D. Eventually you'll bend and break the rule, enough where you win because you hold all the cards. I know it is possible to one or two shot Radahn but do you want to funnel people towards such a feast or famine way of engaging with the culmination of everything you've built? No, better to accept that some veterans will have an easy time and a select few will pull off ridiculous challenge runs to large audiences (which they are still doing with Elden Ring anyway). Anyway I just learned of the patch which does have me interested in giving him another go. I have solo'd the rest of the dlc but decided it wasn't worth it at Radahn.
Sick lil analogy at the end. And overall agree with the boss points, especially pre nerf radahn. Totally got my sub!
I am convinced the people who complained about overtuned damage never realized that armor is actually useful. I went in with the full tree sentinel set, dragoncrest and opaline hardtear and was usually getting 3-4 shotted at worst even at low scadu levels. The lion at scadu lvl 1? No problem. Rellana at scadu lvl 3? Still less than 15 tries.
You can dodge the METYR laser by standing between the laser and the boss. There is a circular moat of safety around the boss were you just cannot get hit by standing there. Video of me using the safety moat coming soon.
I'm curious.
Sometimes you can. The laser moves in and out and I've definitely been in spots where there was no room even on the inside, which is clearly the intended way they wanted you to do it.
I found that to be inconsistent too. The few times I fought Metyr I tried to avoid it that way and every time something hit me for massive damage. Even if visually the laser or the ground AOE didn't even reach me. Something is very broken with that attack.
There are, at least in my understanding, two reasons why Elden Ring and it's DLC have caused so much polarization:
1. It's mainstream now. Elden Ring was such a smash it that Fromsoft is essentially part of pop culture at this point. Many new players who have never played a game like those in the souls series are being introduced to this style of game, and many are coming away with the wrong interpretations of it. It also doesn't help that veteran players are gatekeeping more than ever, as this flood of new gamers has caused even more elitism as to how the game "should" be played.
2. Fromsoft set out to push the souls combat system to it's absolute limit with this game, and succeeded. Many fights in both the base game and DLC teeter right on the line between fair and unfair. I personally like this daring challenge, but sometimes I can understand how people may get overwhelmed with fights in this game, as they are more demanding than ever. This is especially true for the newer players who might still be trying to learn the combat system to begin with, much less master it.
This video deserves a like just for the Margit scene and great JP dub