Making money off the male gaze: sexist imagery or female empowerment?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ม.ค. 2021
- Ohi !
Today we're discussing female sexuality, its representation in the media, and the good amount of controversiality that goes with it. As always, feel free to share your opinion in the comment section :) Enjoy ! x
SOURCES:
www.harpersbazaar.com/culture...
www.feministcurrent.com/2011/...
qz.com/quartzy/1176749/hey-em...
www.thecut.com/article/emily-...
www.billboard.com/articles/co...
Douglas S. Massey, and Nancy A. Denton, American Apartheid: Segregation and The Making of The Underclass. ACLS Humanities E-Book, Cambridge, Harvard University Press, 1993.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardi_B
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_R...
VIDEO/ARTICLE RECOMMENDATIONS (if you want to dig into it a bit more!):
Rachel Thwaites, "Making a choice or taking a stand? Choice feminism, political engagement and the contemporary feminist movement", First Published January 1, 2016. (she argues that choice feminism can prevent us from fighting against patriarchy, neoliberalism, etc.)
Contrapoints, J.K. Rowling (makes some good points on choice and the wHiTe FeMinIsTs) : • J.K. Rowling | ContraP...
Philosophy Tube: • Sex Work | Philosophy ...
Tee Noir's interesting take on Hyper Sexual female Rap: • Video
and if you have any other suggestions, feel free to comment them down below :)
Instagram: / aliceoverall
Enquiries: alice.cappelleyt@gmail.com
See you next week, salut !
About the thing Murphy said, I think the idea that women’s choice to express their sexuality in a way that is generally attractive to men should be restricted because “it harms feminism/women” is ultimately an anti-woman stance to take. Men never have to worry that the way they express their sexuality could harm men’s rights. What is portrayed in most movies, in most media (more so in history than today) as the ideal man has been decided by the same men who had the power to determine what is the ideal woman, from their mostly heterosexual standpoint.
I think it gets complicated because what is considered traditionally attractive sexually about a woman is defined by men, but so is what is considered traditionally attractive about men. I mean, women’s tastes are different, but the men that men find cool and attractive (from a heterosexual standpoint) in my experience are not the same men that women tend to find attractive. For example, lots of women find Harry Styles or generally more “softer” masculinity attractive.
Therefore, when men express traditional masculine sexuality, it cannot exactly be criticized as appealing to women: traditional masculinity is made to appeal to the heterosexual man. Men who adhere to a new, softer masculinity are typically not criticized (unless by reactionaries/conservatives for “ruining the west” or some shit), but CERTAINLY I have never seen it criticized as adhering to the female gaze, and that’s because there is no historically enforced, oppressive female gaze men were ever expected to adhere to. Therefore, a man claiming he expresses his sexuality in a way that happens to align with female preferences just because he likes it, is much more believable.
Meanwhile, when women express sexuality in a way that is traditionally considered attractive to men, there will always be doubt. There will always be the lingering notion, probably in the women herself as well, wondering how much of this is her true innate desires, and how much of this was learned. There will also always be the critique that the way you express yourself is bringing the rest of women down; you cannot simply be an individual, you are always indebted to sacrificing your own desires for the collective image of whatever minority you are a part of. Racial minorities and sexual minorities feel this too. If someone has a bad experience with you; if somebody sees a story about an evil person of your minority identity in the media, it affects the entire group image way more than the non-minority group’s image would be affected by it.
I think having to express yourself in a way that defies the male gaze is just as destructive as having to express yourself in a way that feeds the male gaze. Either way, your entire sexuality depends on the opinions of men as a whole on your ‘performance’ of sexuality.
Also, I’m pretty picky about video essays but this one was super engaging, really well done and interesting!
Brilliant. Just brilliant. Thank you so much for your analysis ! (I'm pinning your comment)
@@AliceCappelle Glad you enjoyed it!^^
as someone from the middle east, I don't get how this modern feminism thing works and I'd like to understsnd..the other day I was watching this scene at a feminist convention or something and a trans person or something ataked a woman who was preaching about how men are hrrible and all, and I saw how the security team rushed to save the situation, people started to shout "SECURITY", "SECURITY"..and the security team consisted of MEN, Muscular Heavily Built dudes!..radical feminists (man-h@ting women) had their convention to h@te on men and the only way they could do that safely is by having MEN (whom they ARE h@ting on) as the safety keepers..so it got me questioning things, questioning if this feminism is even a thing or is it a delusion?, cause it felt like: (MY CARD BOARD THEORY) if you imagine a wide card board held up by someone only to look like the ceiling of a home but it isn't a ceiling, and it just looks like it and feels like it, so if the person holding that card board drops it?, it's no longer there..it feels like the card board is like feminism and the person holding it up is MEN evidently, Straight Men..So it's not a thing, fake, just a delusion..imagine what would happen in that convention if those security members stood there and watched, what would these weak women do?..sprad their egs like concubines like they always did for the invaders historically?, guessing that wouldn't work in such situations..scream and shout, and cry?, cmit scide and seek sympathy?..anyone cares to explain?..what makes these women so confident, and loud and angry, and demand things and put conditions, eg"LOOK, YOU DO THIS FOR US ,OR ELSE?!", yeah OR ELSE what ma'am 😂 ,what is she depending on aside from the all-MALE security staff that was there, what is her back bone?, my only explanation is these security members are getting free sx from these women?, but then again they're not attractive, like old and wearing mrn shirts and all, or they are being paid so fn expensively, and sh@me on them in that case,why are these idits doing as these women say? ,be like "SECURITY","SECURITY" and they rush like idits to save those who are here to h@te on them .. wtf is this 😂, is it a play?, are these people acting?, I should be missing something there..and I'm so confused!.
@@Omar_PS9inchhs Feminism, in its original definition, is wanting equality between the sexes. People interpret that in very different ways, and some women do use it as a way to drag down men-- however, most women do NOT want that. Your point about women demanding things when men hold the power is very fair, but consider the history behind feminism. Women gained power as they entered the workforce, the more they contributed to society outside of traditional gender roles. Most men at the time were not happy about that, not at all. But when half the population (who make up a large part of the work force, control birth rates for the country, and can influence the people around them) make demands, people have to listen. Women can be confident, loud, and angry, but not always for the same reasons men are. Men usually are physically stronger, but there's a lot more to being powerful than physicality, and women have found many ways of being powerful. Education is really important, as is empathy, determination, and really caring. Think of the grit most mothers have, and then tell that woman she can be anyone and do anything. That's pretty cool. Feminism is not about hating men, and anyone who says it is (in my opinion) is WRONG. Men can and should be feminists, as well as women. It's about making the world better for everybody.
I think self-objectification becomes a problem when that is the only form of female empowerment that is propagated. Female empowerment is more than looking pretty, making a ton of money and having many boys in your DMs. Sometimes, in this discourse, I think the multifaceted nature of female empowerment and thereby women gets lost.
Exactly! Took the words out of my mouth.
This comment needs more upvotes! Damn!. I'm sick and tired of seeing media celebrities as the only face ,savior and upholder of female rights and acknowledgement. Whenever a female centric post is made, majority if not all; is about media celebrities. Hardly I'll find the background of a female centric post as Lewis Carol or Shakuntala Devi or Marie Curie; unless it's a certain day celebrating a certain event. Like stop the unconcious projection that the only form of empowerment is by glamorizing and catering to a mostly (overtly) sexual and straight male oriented view point. This comes back to the Kendall Jenner vs Alyssa Carson debate. Even though both are celebrities, it hurts that Alyssa isn't more celebrated.
I think the "self-objectification" or "fashion" or "make up", etc., is re-apropiation, but no empowerment.
I believe that true female empowerment is achieved through cultivating both intellectual and physical abilities. Well, an important part of the inequality between men and women, lies in that disparity of physical aspects (strength, agility, etc., If women are encouraged to develop physical skills, they will have tools to cope with the environment
) and intellectual (not many women are motivated to study astrophysics or profession well paid like enginier).
But is just an opinion.
I want to see female empowerment in the form of average-looking women with an average means of livelihood who is either comfortably single or is just exclusive to one partner (not making any comments on polyamory or whatever) and still happy and content - basically something more relatable. Something more achievable by ordinary women. Because a lot of women will feel that they are not good enough if they don't achieve those standards, thus defeating the purpose of empowerment. Your comment needs more attention honestly.
@@sultanasafwanarahman5583 yep!! Annoys me that people can't grasp this. Not to mention the empowerment often involves a lot of surgery these days.
I feel so torn about making money off of the male gaze, because yes, in a way it is empowering, because women have the control. But at the same time, it is just giving men what they want under the pretence of it being about the woman. I think that sadly, because society is very much made under the male gaze by males for males, everything a women does is viewed as for a man in some way or other. It’s incredibly upsetting for me, as a young woman.
But I think it’s not we as women have to care about if it feeds the male gaze, but man have to care about if they are applying or judging from a male gaze. It’s not women who have to change but men who have to reflect and think more openly on what they have internalised ...
literally my opinion. It's basically serving them what they want on the plate and it's not like they care, if these women feel "empowered" or not. Also, there is a huge problem here and that is that it's all about making money. Like dress how you want, but the fact these women only do this to get money is bad and there is no further discussion needed. Another problem is that everything is made to revolve around sex as if people don't have anything more to offer. This is the reason onlyfans, the porn industry etc are just harming people further and further as we are normalizing those things under the disguise off "feminism". It's just disgusting
@@bananarlug2255 Absolute nonsense. Resist the victimhood cult. We can only control ourselves. We cannot control the thoughts, feelings, preferences, or actions of others. We must accept reality as it is, not scream at the sun for rising in the morning. Men are hardwired for intense physical desire for healthy, fertile women; it is hard to understand from a woman's perspective, but it is universal throughout the world no matter the culture.
@Wandering Alpaca I'm a virgin woman and will only marry a virgin man. I think men who sleep around are disgusting. I wonder if the male gaze can be applied to men, where men are praised for not being virgins
@@Laura-vs6fs well assume one day, men starts enjoying seeing girls breathing...would you stop breathing?
this reminded me so much of this quote from bojack horseman (a great netflix show you should totally check out if you haven't) - "I do wonder as a third-wave feminist if it’s even possible for women to “reclaim” their sexuality in this deeply entrenched patriarchal society. Or if claiming to do so is just a lie we tell ourselves so we can more comfortably cater to the male gaze”
Oh yeah I remember this one !
@@AliceCappelle What would reclaiming sexuality look like? In a non-patriarchial culture, what would sexuality itself look like?
Bingo
This is so well-said...
@@TheMorganVEVO I don't know the answer either, but I know this: it won't happen with the same mindset that created patriarchy.
I just don't like the idea that someone would put all of their value on their image or sexuallity and have their whole personality revolving around that... I hate the idea of seeing a person as an object, and a huge part of Hollywood's and the music industry success is because of that...but again, that is just a personal thought, I do believe that everyone has the right to do whatever they want to do as long as they don't harm others.
it only brainwashes young women to actually believe that the only way anyone will ever pay attention to them and care about them is if they show off what nature gave them in some skimpy outfit with "yes daddy" written on it, their entire existence based only on their bodies and everything they do with it, and everyone they let use it, and just because i was born the opposite sex doesn't suddenly make what i said invalid either
@@stanbolkowy166 I think what you’re saying goes back to people not seeing women as whole. A women shows herself sexually and that’s all she’s known as, meanwhile the same is definitely not said for men. And again we can’t blame influential women for younger women feeling that they need to dress a certain way (if they are aren’t dressing for themselves), women’s beauty standards are reinforced by men so much more. This is about the culture we’re in. Btw what’s empowering to one person may not be empowering to another, this depends on your background. And to be completely honest it’s exhausting. We literally can’t win either way. Which ever way you want to tackle this issue another problem isn’t dealt with, I don’t think there’s one way to solve it. So women are just gonna have to keep pushing in different ways.
So exploiting men's libido and encouraging them to view a woman's sexuality as nothing but a monetary transaction is completely harmless?
Alot of women would rather be harmed and abused than ever give into any notion of being a good, Christian person, being tied to a tree, beaten up, plied with free drink and drugs and raped makes them feel wanted, sadly. I grew up painfully whilst learning this as they grew down and disappeared off with guys who were itching to get to that stage, guys with cars, money and drugs who were alot older and who made the girls hearts beat alot faster.
Hollywood at the moment is too concerned with social context rather than actually making entertaining films. I havent watched a film in years.
@@mjag2834 you sound deluded, stay away from women please
About a decade ago some dude who was probably 20’years older than me was telling how a female coworker had to leave after her ex leaked an explicit video of her. And I thought “wtf, that’s not her fault”. But he was telling it like “oh she should’ve known better to keep her clothes on”. And now that I think about it, if that happened to me, and any of my coworkers or boss wanted me to leave my job, I’d sue their a$$es
One time, I was sitting in public transportation behind two guys who were talking about a girl they knew who committed suicide after her ex leaked her nudes to the entire school. They were making FUN of her, saying she shouldn't have taken those pictures if she didn't want everyone to see them.
I wish, I wish, I wish I would have said something, told them how disgusting they were.
I think about that girl all the time.
@@yltraviole but she shouldn't have. If a man is seen having sex with a woman it's her shame. That's the way it has always been because women are viewed as nurturers, they are expected to hold a very high moral standard because they are capable of having and taking care of children who are in turn expected to become well-rounded adults. Fighting against this can cause you much stress. Believe me, I've been there.
@@zippy3253 That's bullshit. And you're disgusting for victim blaming a girl who killed herself because some asshole send out revenge porn of her.
Zipporah Chinese that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Having sex is neither shameful for men nor for women. Men, too, are just as capable of being nurturing and of raising children as are women. Do gay/lesbian people even exist in your messed up world view? To whom is the act of sex shameful in those relationships? I feel so sorry for you. Whatever led you to view human sexuality this way must've been severely traumatic.
@@DM-nw5lu gay men are great nurturers, she's talking about traditional musculinity
The thing is female empowerment is collective. If twerking and being sexual makes you feel powerful good for you! But it's not female empowerment. Let's get our definitions correct so we don't mix and match things that aren not.
Thank you!
You know I appreciate this comment. I think as I have been trying to understand this paradoxical relationship between the male gaze and a woman embracing her sexuality being defined as female empowerment. But to your point isn't something that I seen explored. Thank you I gonna chew on this.
Agreed
Exactly
Agreed
i remember having a conversation with a male friend once that really struck me. i mentioned how there would be a huge difference in reaction if on a hot day there were men walking around a street without a shirt on than if a woman was doing the same with either nothing or even a bra on. his reaction was to laugh and say he didn't think any guy would mind if they saw women walking around shirtless, and would in fact enjoy it. It was not a comment meant to harm, but since then i keep coming back to it and thinking about whether it really is possible for women to ever reclaim their bodies without it being eaten up by men and "the male gaze" etc etc. it makes me wonder if "reclaiming your sexuality" - which in principle i strongly support - will ever actually be possible, or whether its just something we women have created to make ourselves feel more comfortable while we inevitably cater to the male gaze.
I feel the same way about sexuality and owning you body because what ever women seem to do , it always seems to directed back to man , and because man always seem to find something and different ways to sexualize, have opinions and ideologies on the female body , they also have always been taught to be open and vocal about it because the patriarchal societies we live in, so yeah the male gaze will always a part in the view of female body and sexuality because its so deeply ingrained in society.
i think at this point it can happen in maleless society only...
It's not possible since men are physically stronger therefore always have the upper hand. I think it all boils down to that
But why do women need to go out shirtless because men do this?Technically, there is nothing sexual about buttholes because the purpose of them is to poop, but I don't see people trying to show that in public or even debating it.
@@hsnrb9959 but the point is that there is nothing inherently sexual about a mans chest - even if many women are attracted to it, you'd struggle to find a man deciding not to go out shirtless because he's worried he won't be able to feel comfortable from all the women staring at him and making comments or catcalling, or even other men disapproving. women find themselves taking these things into consideration almost every time they get dressed in the morning, because for some reason boobs have become a sexual thing when in fact they're there to literally feed our children. There's nothing sexual about that, and yet somehow we've gotten to a point when they've been labelled as sexual - along with so many other parts of a woman's body. The example of going bare-chested that i gave above was just one of many ways that the societal view of the female body has impacted every woman's life in a negative way, and its starting to feel like we will never be able to move away from that.
The fact that the only way some women can get out of poverty is through her appearance (and some performer showgirl skills) and become successful a lot easier than through some other means, (education, innovation, other business) says a lot more about the economic system/society that we live in than it says about that woman.
Well, education, innovation and other businesses are way harder and profitting off of their body isnt something that just gets themselves out of poverty. It makes them richer then majority of the population, both women and men. I guess your point is that education, innovation and other businesses dont pay good enough, but they usually do, but not nearly as good as some form of prostitution and they take much more time and effor, so, no, It doesnt say a lot about the economic system/society, instead, It says a lot about how easy It is to become rich by selling your body. Its self explanatory that selling your body is way easier then having to do an other form of work and It also pays well, therefore Its very difficult to beat It with honest work.
We live in society meme
Couldn't agree more
Women's bodies as become a currency on today's economic systems, it is honest work to sell it, it's their body and they can do whatever they want with it.
What can i say? Entertainment pays well. And obviously, education and business general DO require more effort than raw... talent.
Honestly I believe we should just do whatever the f- we feel like, and simply stop judging women for being overly “sexual”. I feel like the biggest problem is the fact that most people still don’t know how consent works, and that is one thing that we should focus, not only as feminists but as a society
Couldn't agree more !
Agree! Empowering for someone might be oversexualizing for another person, we have different perceptions and that's hardly going to change but the choice to be an asshole to people is always within ourselves. "She should respect herself if she wants others to do so" is just an excuse to disrespect someone you don't like because of how they present themselves.
feminism that states that every choice a woman makes is feminist is useless feminism. feminism is about female libration and it is a political movement. and there are certain things like pornography, prostitution, and half naked sexy dancing in front of millions of people and many other things that are just not feminist. I'm not shaming anyone when I say this. While I do think that the first two are morally wrong the last is not. just not feminist.
No we should definitely judge people for what they do. That’s how you build a culture. I’m not talking about freedom because women have just as much freedom as men. I think the example of nwa is perfect. “What a disgusting outlook on life nwa has.” That’s my judgment. “What a low form of art” that’s my judgment on cardi b. She should definitely have the freedom to do whatever she wants and everyone should be allowed to say how wrong it is. You don’t get to say that you should have the right to not be ridiculed by others unless you want to live in a cave.
@@kwhodostuff5504 It doesn’t take a genius to make “music” anymore and that’s the problem. People don’t have a taste for people who dedicate their lives to music. Instead they idolize people that chase money and fame. Most rappers are making literal trash and it’s unfortunate the good ones die. And I do have every right to judge I’m an American just like cardi b has the right to do what she does. I will say it’s unfortunate that this is happening because it’s what male rappers were putting in their songs and the reaction from women was to be what the rappers wanted out of women. So, yes, toxic masculinity is to blame in that regard.
kinda irrelevant but that dude assigning the problem of mysoginy to those communities reeks of the same scapegoate behaviour as male high school teachers deferring the problem of bullying as a "bitchy teenage girl" problem yet cheering on male teens who literally beat each other up :/ love ur videos so much btw!!!!!
YES! Exactly! Thank you Juliette 😊
omg juliette hi!! fancy seeing u here
@@millawerner3768 OMG HI QUEEN
No one talks about actual hardworking women out there who are doctors, scientists, engineers, teachers, pilots, martial artists etc or something like that. Those professions require extreme levels of hardwork and dedication. That to me is really inspiring.
The only thing I get in mainstream media is influencers nothing else. There's no recognition of actual hardwork anymore. People only care if you look pretty or not (well half of the time it's either plastic surgery or filters a lot of filters)
Now I'm not against influencer lifestyles and I do believe they should be treated with respect but I would like it if people actually gave a crap about the actual hardworking women out there
Actually-hardworking women don't make Tiktok videos, for the excellent reason that they're too busy saving lives, making discoveries, and inventing stuff.
Exactly rol model.
@@NJGuy1973 all women are hard working, you don’t have to be saving lives to be considered hard working.
And even at the work place (im a engineer myself) it always comes down to who's pretty and who is not - not if you are really good at what you do.
Yep, if you look at Soviet art, it definitely emphasizes the hard work and scientific progress aspect even when depicting femininity. I want that aesthetic back.
The sad reality is that we never discuss men's career and personal life choices the same way. While I fully understand why some (a lot of?) feminists dislike people like Cardi because they "betray the cause", I think I'd rather people simply stop giving a fuck about what others are doing as long as they don't hurt anyone. I see it as neither empowerment nor sexism, it's just something they chose to do. Great video!
Omg yes. Imagine how tiring it is for us to have to be "the good woman". The good feminist.
Yes! Honestly I was just laughing at the whole WAP spectacle. I’m not for or against WAP. This Peter griffin quote pretty much summed up my thoughts: “oh my god, who the hell cares?”
And I think it’s sad and funny how worked up some people get over women expressing their sexuality. Like if everyone involved is consenting, it’s not hurting anyone, it’s not being marketed to children, then just turn off the radio.
I think you’re right about how it sucks we never talk about men this way, and it’s definitely a double standard, but I think it is slightly different, as men have never had to fight to be taken seriously. I don’t personally agree, but I think a lot of people would say that people like that set back feminism and make women in general taken less seriously. I think we should stop worrying about if everything women do is empowering, but it’s interesting to think about.
@@TheLily97232we're all humans of the same biases and wants, people should just live their lives because we all only have one
@@TheLily97232 there must always be good or bad in this world. Rules must exist. Even absence of rules is creating a rule against rules. One thing can't be ‘okay’ and a direct opposite of that thing also ‘okay’ the world doesn't work like that.
I'm sick of the term empowerment. I'm not empowered by my shitty job, whether it's working retail or doing sex work. Why does something need to be seen as 'empowering' for it to be morally and socially okay to do? The male gaze exists regardless of whether women participate.
May I ask why you think it is moral to do sex work? I mean this out of curiosity and would like to hear your thoughts.
„The male gaze exists regardless of wether women participate or not“👌🏻 I totally agree and I don’t think it will change if I‘m honest .. not even if all women became ‚modest‘ from now on. So why restrict ourselves even further when we could be free or benefitting of it a bit when sexism fucks us over in every other way.
Maybe I‘m too pessimistic, I don’t know
Female empowerment to half the degree is corporate empowerment. Throughout history and giving birth to large families, woman predominantly stayed at home to care for their family. Only when caring for your family and taking care of the home became less of a full-time job and thus woman as a result having a lot more free time, were they required to be empowered into filling in excel sheets in an office all day instead. I.E. Capitalism and schizophrenia; selling the doctrine of choice.
@@KurtesolWafelosi What people call the "Male gaze" is just basic evolutionary META biology, hardly something you would want to wish away. Though with woman wearing make-up, they are participating in a prisoner dilemma against other girls, by trying to deceive male algorithms and causing their relative perception of normal women to become worse.
Though it is barely the fault of women too.
Just another terrible Nash Equilibrium.
If it is for humans solving easier problems first, all last human problems will be that of terrible Nash Equilibriums, and every time people try to solve the problem does it reform itself for the fact that it is a Nash Equilibrium, making it the last problem to be solved.
@@KurtesolWafelosi Men find the bodies of women attractive. Thats how we are. If men force themselves to not "gaze" or whatever, wouldnt they reject their sexuality? On the other hand, women using their bodies to prey on weak mean to get rich is a choice. I guess strong eats the weak. Right now few men are stronger then everybody, but most women are stronger then majority of men. Maybe we live in a "patriarchal society" but women control the majority of men, therefore women have the power.
Being sexualized is not the problem, the problem is when that is the only facet that you are allow to be and when you don't have control of that facet, there's a difference between being a sexual object and being sexualized/sexy.
Truuuue! A great example I thought of was Elle Woods. She wears sexy clothes and is great at flirting, but she is never treated as a sex object.
Meanwhile I’ve seen women in movies who dress more modestly and are less flirtatious yet feel more sexualized because of things like lingering camera shots and such
@@alyssapinon9670 what is the difference between being sexualized and being a sex object?
I think people are forgetting something.
You do not have to be sexy/hot to show female empowerment. I’m sick of hearing everyone saying ‘every woman must be allowed to make their own choices’ yet when a woman chooses to wear a hijab or be a housewife, they get ridiculed like??
They shouldn’t, women should not be judged based on what they are wearing doesn’t matter if it is a bikini or a hijab.
Yes. Go through this, teased as" Half of the humanity will be saved if you Don't wear hijab"
This!!! I totally agree
The thing is that a woman choosing to do something something is not autimatically female empowerment or feminist. I don’t think taking you clothes off is empowering women more than wearing a hijab or being a house wife, or wearing jeans and a t-shirt. These things can make the individual feel empowered but it’s not female empowerment.
Sadly, even women are putting that stigma onto women. If you choose to not show your cleavage or wearing crop top, you're not a liberated person. How does your choice of clothes define that more than your take about life. If some are forced to cover up, believe me some are pressured to wear a certain way too to be accepted within their circle.
I feel like I can say this a thousand times and no one listens: female sexuality tapping into male power is not female power.
Very loud slow clap!!!
YESS THIS NEEDS MORE LIKES
Agree here to an extent, I believe that it's normal for the woman to chose their partner and for the man to earn it. Seems to be why guys will act out in missguided ways around girls they are attracted to, especially younger guys who haven't learnt how to control their frame and act as they should to be a good partner.
This is also a key driver in evolution, sexual selection is much more powerful than natural selection, think birds dancing for mates etc.
And so when women kind of "give it up" for the sake of money, they are losing that selection process... The bird doesn't have to do the dance anymore to get the female i.e. the man doesn't have to act like a man should. This for me is the evil of porn etc all being clicks away.
However I certainly know women who absolutely do get power from feeling attractive / attention grabbing to men and if that is the case then more power to them? As long as it is coming from a genuine place?
🤦🏻♂️
Then it seems like you won't be very happy with all of this for a while, because it seems to me that you guys are upset when men benefit from it and your upset when women benefit. It would seem that the only way to make your type of women happy is if been don't benefit at all.
the thing is that the objectification of women really is an issue, but no one should hate on a woman for trying to profit off it, instead we should be critical of the macro level power. what i mean by that is for example that the film industry routinely has mostly male writers and directors, so that affects the way women are presented (how men see us, and how women are socialized as they grow up). in game of thrones i'm p sure the male to female nudity has a 9-1 ratio. our media is mainly male focused on their desires, so i think this is a broader issue of capitalism and how women's bodies are used and treated as objects for consumption, marketed for the male gaze.
its show business and its not real! don't focus on it too much. I know it is engrained in us to care about the media and entertainment biz but really can you survive without it? YES
@@allisonchains__ it’s ignorant to not acknowledge the sheer amount of influence media has though. Sure, we can survive without it, but the reality is that most people are exposed to it daily, even if it doesn’t seem explicit. And with something like GOT, which got over 19 MILLION viewers on the finale alone, there’s a MASSIVE amount of influence that’s not being acknowledged…
People hate on women who profit off their body, because Its an easy thing to do, that doesnt need skill, but this easy "business" is not available or way less profitable for fat women and majority of men. Most people see It like a cheat code and so do I, but we have to accept It. Some people are lucky and some are not. Everybody has their own set of cards He/She can play and at the end of the day, We shouldnt hate on somebody for using the cards in their hand to improve their life.
why shouldn't we hate on them? or at least hold them accountable. they are a part of the problem. they chose to give in and get $
Sexualising is part of human nature. Both men and women should be sexualised (equally)
it’s the worst because tons of us started objectifying ourselves around 13 y/o because that is what society portrays as a strong, empowered, grown up woman
no one care because people make money off young girls being insecure. Similar to communist china (and WW2 america) trying to get women to slave away in the workforce through encouraging freedom and independence for women from their families. Its like that quote- 'Women fight to stop being a slave to their husband who likes them and instead to be a slave to a boss that hates them'
There’s a difference between “expressing your sexuality” and embracing “being sexualized”, and IMO the way women are groomed by the male gaze from a very young age makes it difficult to parse. We are taught to derive sexual pleasure from being found attractive (even if we aren’t experiencing physical pleasure in our encounters), rather than to explore what our own sexualities and desires actually are. It takes a lifetime to reclaim the gaze. Empowerment also can’t be individual - masters tools can’t dismantle the masters house. The male gaze is a social construct that is deeply objectifying, and Othering people as objects cements oppressive hierarchies. I view the empowerment narrative as liberal feminist, devoid of more structural/systemic analysis.
Incorrect, I don't think you know what male biology is, I agree about the over sexualization of women's body's, but a decent amount of the "male gaze" is inherent in men naturally, they have certain mixtures of chemical's in there brain (Which we don't have) that create that chemical "drive" and need to be with a female, which always constant after puberty, so a certain "moderate" level objectification at least is naturally based, which is something feminism definitely doesn't care to talk about.
@@jackielynne3857 incorrect, I don’t think you know that men aren’t biologically sex demons. The difference between men being attracted to women and the male gaze is the socialized element behind it. Shaming female sexuality while encouraging male sexuality sends a very clear message and if we didn’t have that shaming on us, they wouldn’t see that and think they’re supposed to overpower us. The male gaze is more than just liking titties. Do women not also have attraction to men? Why would a man’s attraction be inherently different than a woman’s?
@@lilmisslizzyc what is male gaze according to you? And do you want to encourage women to not shave and be hairy?
@@lilmisslizzyc why can't heterosexual men enjoy eroticism in films? Imo movies should pander to both male and female gaze. Also there's nothing wrong in sexualisation as long as it's with consent.
@@jackielynne3857 So do gay men and asexual men just don't exist to you?? These fake misinformation sciences need to go
The truth is that even thought these stereotypes are perpetuated by males as girls we are our biggest haters, i have noticed that a lot of girls find reassuring the idea that a really hot girl is at least stupid cause it gives them the idea that they have something over her.
Yeah and that’s why women who are attractive and smart are seen as threats
@@alyssapinon9670 Or their smartness is invalided.
People Are even capable of saying that u try to sound smart when in reality u are not
A good example of this is Megan Fox. I'm glad people are waking up and realize that she's a smart and empowered woman, more than her looks.
Or the other way around in some cases like "maybe if you wore makeup or dressed nicer men would give you what you want." The idea that men exist only for women to get something out of doesn't really help the issue of misogyny but perpetuates it. Our society has created this idea that you have to choose between one or the other (e.g. a man who respects you vs. a man who objectifies you). As humans we tend to think in absolutes and I can't necessarily fault either an individual man or an individual woman for succumbing to that sort of binary thinking. I think certain overt sexualization is harmful because it has the potential to be abused, either directly or indirectly. Someone might imply that a woman "should" do these things to in some way prove that she is a strong and capable woman, and that takes the freedom out of it completely. Take a hypothetical like "well Megan Fox is a strong woman and she acts super sexy, why can't you act like that for me?" I don't think it necessarily helps men think about how women can be in charge of their own bodies, but I think it has the potential to further perpetuate objectification and misogyny under the far friendly guise of "female empowerment." Because, at the end of the day, celebrities often AREN'T in charge of their bodies, at least not 100% of the time. They don't always get a say in how they are presented by editors, directors, and media outlets. Conversely, those women who operate their own business centered around pornographic content may genuinely enjoy the activity, but if they feel obligated to engage in it because they wouldn't be able to make a decent income otherwise, that's a form of sex slavery. Additionally, I think it can be harmful for young girls who might emulate it without understanding what it actually means to sexualize oneself.
@@alyssapinon9670 to be honest I am in this category, but sometimes because some woman display this behaviour. I really don't trust overly sexual woman who say: don't make me a sexual object, yet you are showing your body by free and acting your only valuable thing is your beauty. I think balance is key, I've earn money out of males, I guess you get my point, but I try that my behaviour reflects my thinking.
It's ok not to bring us down but not because I am a woman and you are, that means I have to support and agree everything you do. Some ladies need to learn too and going to the extreme using your body and only your beauty for calling out for attention, then I don't think that can get you further and can be a misleading attitude
I just want to comment about how sick I am of ads that has no business putting half naked woman on my screen but still does cause they think it will sell better.
personally i don't find it empowering for a woman to pander to the male gaze (like e-prostitution and such), rather degrading because when a woman does so, it presents the image that a woman's body is a sort of currency. and I'm saying this as a woman.
i've tried really hard to be liberal on this, but i agree with you. while i would NEVER tear a woman down for engaging in it, and would only work to support her and love her, in the end prostitution is degrading. its a violation of boundaries and supports the idea that female sexuality is something that can be dominated and controlled (in this case, by money). taking back sexual power to me means not giving it to men on-demand. saying this as a women as well.
It kinda takes away the human element away
I don't disagree
I don’t agree, because that also should bring up the porn industry and also the model industry and acting with sexual scenes because that too is two people have sex and getting paid for it. Does this really change whether it’s being filmed for other people’s entertainment? Also cam girls and such.
Same
I agree. In fact, empowering is what gives you power: influence, education, money. Just the same things that give men power, not doing whatever you want because you feel like it. Feminism does not boil down to that, this new 'empowering' narrative is very misleading if not completely wrong.
As a man, I think what Cardi B does is a product of empowerment, which is a good thing. Having a choice is empowering. And I don't necessarily consider female sexuality as vulgar. But personally, for me, her art itself doesn't feel 'healthy'. she kind of uses empowerment as a marketing tool. It's hard to explain and again I was never into explicit rapping anyway. Very good video btw.
I totally agree with you, individual economic empowerment has its limits :/ kinda unrelated but your comment makes me think of all those girl boss businesses that continue to exploit women, is that really feminism?
I think the issue with Cardi B's brand (and the branding of other, hypersexualized female musicians - most of which are woc, which is another issue) is that she's not the only one profitting off the hypersexualization of her body. So while it may have been entirely up to her to decide to portray herself this way, and while there are likely clauses in all of her contracts ensuring her bodily autonomy, she's also signed to a label which decided that her particular hypersexualized brand was good for business at this moment in time. And that label is probably trying to ride that wave for as long as possible. I'm willing to bet a lot of the people making money off her brand are men. So it's not actually as simple as just saying that it's her choice, and that the ability to choose makes that act empowering, because she may be encouraged in various ways to make that choice.
@@mandi3366 because that's not how the music industry work. They are not gonna let a woman alone and do their thing, there's always has been this conversation about artist been just corporative puppets (even males) cuz labels only wants their money But for woman It's different, they not only trying to control your music so can be commercial But also sexualizating them as a way of saying "this is the role You play here, the sexual object", i think Nicki minaj said something like that, that in the rap industry You have to play the "bitch roll"
So there is already a sexist part in the industry when there's gonna be some white men telling You do this and do that, the industry basicly devides women to choose be "the saint and virgin" or be "a slut" whitch is what happened to Miley, britney, lady Gaga and every other woman that puts a step on Hollywood. Many say "femele empoworment But we don't know who's does by manipulation
It's a really sad situation where women always lose
@@ariadrou9010 Agree. I'm scared for billie eilish though. She herself admitted how she doesn't wanna be sexualized for her body and just genuinely wanna make music, that's the reason why she wears baggy clothes in the first place. But recently, her label urged her to reveal her body a little bit right after she turned 18. I really hope she doesn't ends up like most female artists.
@@zelda7059 I would say yesn't, cuz with billie is more complicated, I mean I'm Billie's fan so as far as I know she is signed up with Darkroom(apart from Interscope) which is Justin Lubliner's label, it's a small label and they seem to be friends. Artists usually sign with a small label and then with a major so they can have more control of their stuff, also take into count, that if you don't "play the game" you just will not be on the radio.
Knowing this (if you are Billie's fan) remember that she never care about being on the radio, even Justin celebrates when Ocean eyes go platinum or gold without the radio. Also, sexualization always is there in the industry even if you are a teenager, just look Millie Bobby Brown and how many end up being SA at a young age. When I see Billie with her baggy clothes I see that she and her parents are just very conscious of the type of world that Hollywood is. I think she has a lot of control, she also pointed out the idea of not want it to be sexual for the fact that she's was a minor. I will be calm about any decision that she takes
As I said many women end up play this sexual role as a result of manipulation but I totally believe that others are genuine. There's nothing wrong with women being sexual it's when they are pushes to do it
You also got Taylor Swift, H.E.R, Lana del Rey who obviously show skin but they don't show themself in a sexual way, they care about their art first
I think that women should be able to make any choice they please. But it is important to acknowledge that these choices can be bad for women.
It’s great that Rihanna chose to become a rich business women, but her underwear line is terrible for the (mostly female) workers that have to sew that fast fashion shit under terrible conditions
I agree with you but I think its also an interesting line of argument to say that Rihanna is held to this standard when other male business owners are not. Should she act differently because she's a woman is business- is it her duty to lift up other women precisely because she's woman? Or does that actually further equality from our grasp - putting another league of distance between Rihanna and the other male billionaires who aren't held to the same expectation of being considerate to anyone other than themselves and therefore get richer from the sweat shops they employ? Its a tricky one.
Recently Rihanna tried to promote her lingerie line front of a Hindu temple, but got kicked off the property. So she posted a pic of her mostly nude with the symbol of a Hindu deity around her neck. Hindus weren't happy about it and it was disrespectful. Promoting your brand and sexuality while profiting off of other POC's culture/religion. As usual her fans defended her by saying "it's her body let her do what she wants!" or "you're slut shaming her." When they were just calling out her cultural appropriation and reducing someone's religion/culture to aesthetics for her brand. She like other companies must be held accountable for how they promote their stuff using other people's culture/religion and labor for her profit.
no, its not great she chose to become a rich business woman. capitalism where half the billionaires are black women isnt less exploitative than that where everything is owned by white men, its just *capitalism with performative progressivist characteristics*. you say yourself that its 'terrible for the (mostly female) workers that have to sew that fast fashion shit under terrible conditions' - right? she is rich *because* she takes their surplus value from them. the rich owe their riches to the poverty of the workers.
@@missmillienettleton okay so I actually detest capitalism, which is where this problem comes from, but at the same time, almost all products come from exploitation so I’d still consider a black women owned brand bad, because it’s a brand, but it is a bit better than all the beauty brands owned by white cis men.
@@molinj.7174 I completely agree with everything said above - HOWEVER the rich white men hold all the power precisely because they took advantage of people. For minorities to rise to the same prominence in the western world, to reach the same power, perhaps it would be faster to play by the same rules in the beginning, get a seat at the table and THEN change the game to be fight the casualties of capitalism, rather than to be fighting a battle on all fronts, if that makes sense? Just an interesting thought.
I think the question of choice is answered in a way by that excerpt of the Cardi B profile. She got fired, had a domestic abuse situation, had been kicked out of her home and was living in poverty. The choice her manager suggested was a strip club across the street which then became her only means of making enough money to support herself. That doesn't sound like much of a choice. She even commented about the backlash to WAP, that she'd released other songs which were much more nuanced and thoughtful and that fans told her to stop and go back to her usual fare. Again, doesn't sound like much of a choice.
Ratajkowski clearly had a similar story. She could have made money working retail after piling on insane amounts of student debt for a college degree that was no longer as valuable as it used to be when her parents were her age. Or she could embrace the fact that she is conventionally beautiful and attractive (not a dig, just a fact of how our society views beauty, I think she's beautiful too but a lot of women I think are gorgeous do not fall in the conventionally beautiful category) and thrive through a career that caters to the male gaze. She chose modeling and made enough money to support herself. Both women, in fact, ended up making much, much more money than the ordinary person could ever dream of making. In a society with enough choices for women, however, they might have made different ones, or even the same ones, but with a lot of options in mind.
That's why I feel we should blame society and the patriarchy. The mistake we make is blaming these women. That's a clever tactic used by those in power (and facilitated by those without it). Like the 'american apartheid' writer attempted to do (knowingly or unknowingly), pit one type of black american against another type of black american and make sure they continue to blame each other, while the powerful (almost all white) members of society continue to exploit them both for their own gain. Same happens to women, except the tragedy is that we're not even a minority, so our path to collective empowerment could be so much shorter if we supported one another. I'm all for critiquing women with power, we absolutely should. But there should be a recognition of the reality we are forced to occupy everyday and how we can productively change it.
best comment
@@kimvyn.1238 thank you ^_^
Both could earn much more money through their choices. A major reason for that is that pandering to the male gaze is very profitable. Similarly football is popular and hence successful footballers make a lot of money. But that's just capitalism, isn't it? I had great interest in mathematics but I realised that the only jobs for me with that choice would be those of a teacher or a professor with a crappy income in my country. So I changed my mind and took Computer Science cuz of the huge amount of opportunities and money involved in that field.
But that's just the world moving forward and capitalism. Why blame it specifically on the patriarchy? Why find fault in it? These women got rich and hence powerful by "pandering" to the male gaze. You can even say that they "exploited" the male gaze, used their sexual appeal as their strengths and gained power.
Of course the student loan situation etc require reform and criticism but then that seems like more of an economic issue rather than a gendered one.
Ig you can say that such exploitative capitalism is a product of patriarchy or something like that. But is there any other reason why you point to patriarchy specifically in this case?
@@anonymous_4276 I understand your points, capitalism is also heavily involved in these decisions. But in this case, the women in question were being affected by patriarchal structures that then interact with capitalist ones, so I included it. At the end of the day, patriarchy, civil rights, workers' rights etc. are just specific phrases we use to address power imbalances and how they express themselves. I was merely stating that the issues faced by women were often due to the power imbalance in society between men and women and how that can reduce their choices e.g. showcasing their bodies or using what men find attractive about them to earn their living, where they may have chosen a different path if they had more choices available. Capitalism and patriarchy can always interact, with both creating their own sets of issues. However, if you're assuming that I'm saying that only women suffer or have their choices reduced, I absolutely do not mean that and never would. I've seen how men suffer (particularly due to capitalism) firsthand and am deeply sympathetic to it, it just wasn't relevant to this video so didn't mention it.
It's always about choice and diversity. I don't mind a sexy woman in media but there have to be other styles and personalites on the screen that different people can relate to (woman that show themself in a sexy way have plenty of personality, too beside that of course) . Also they all should still be treated with respect. I don't like cardi b's style but that doesn't matter because I'm not the standard of the world.
The last sentence! I wish more people could be like that. Just because something isn’t for you doesn’t mean everyone else has to think that way
With all human bonds broken out there, there is nothing to connect with anymore, occasionally a female might try to get you to pick up on it here and there down the decades, but its so weak and insipid, I just die inside when I see them and they open their mouths, but nowadays I am staying positive, yeah, I prefer my new found friend 'Penny Dreadful' beer - because the Penny still hasnt dropped for them, or, for me. So sick and tired of it all.
What is “choice” when you’re not educated in the social ramifications, consequences, or expectations put on you for the choices you’re making?
We should be compassionate about women in desperate situations but not not hold them accountable. Like Cardi B openly admitting she drugged men. She also may be a “lucky” one. Most women in stripping are exploited and harmed terribly and she may have given the impression that more women should do it to get ahead.
The male gaze is inappropriate and we should not indulge it while telling men it’s “ok”, “we’re using you while you use us”. I’d want better for future generations.
What's male gaze? What's wrong with male Sexuality?
It may be empowering to the women making money but to the young impressionable female consumers of this media it sets the precedent that the way to be valuable and get attention is to sexualize yourself, be attractive, and that promiscuity is okay and has no repercussions.
I don't think so, young girls get to see different types of women in the media, not just hyper-sexual women, we shouldn't focus on that
@@AliceCappelle But do they really?
@@petalchild of course they do, we really need to stop caring so much for "our young girls", they are intelligent, they can make mistakes but it's fine, let's focus on boys for a change pls
@@AliceCappelle wow you are so incredibly out of touch. Yes, we should also be focusing on young boys but that doesn't mean we should ignore the unique issues that girls face growing up in today's world.
@@petalchild it depends what you mean by "unique issues", the fact that young girls have to grow up in a society that dictates what they should wear, what type of sexuality they can be exposed to, that it's their fault if something bad happens to them, that's where we need to put our energy towards. Not irrelevant ethics debates around the danger of exposing young girls to hyper-sexual women, come on
If Emily Ratakowska can pose around and get more money than her waitress friends, then there is nothing liberating. There can’t be liberation when power is so unequally distributed.
exactly like for example i heard of this astronaut who was a woman and only 19 year old and went to space and no one talks about her and only want to talk about like maybe Kendall Jenner but they deserved get that same attention as models do now
I don't paid to do my job as much as Tom Brady gets to do his. Hell, the worst player in the NFL makes way more than me. Is that fair?
No one talks about actual hardworking women out there who are doctors, scientists, engineers, teachers, pilots, martial artists etc or something like that. Those professions require extreme levels of hardwork and dedication. That to me is really inspiring.
The only thing I get in mainstream media is influencers nothing else. There's no recognition of actual hardwork anymore. People only care if you look pretty or not (well half of the time it's either plastic surgery or filters a lot of filters)
Now I'm not against influencer lifestyles and I do believe they should be treated with respect but I would like it if people actually gave a crap about the actual hardworking women out there
@@authorbhattacharjee4957 When a video of a nurse doing her job gets 3 billions views, then she'll get paid like Taylor Swift.
@@abby626 WHAT?! At only 19? That insane and brave as hell. I never want to go to space, ever, and while I’m only a few years younger than that woman, it’s still amazing how anyone could even do all of that and make it to space at 19. You’d usually expect those astronauts to be like 30 or 40 or older. That’s crazy.
To be perfectly honest, I don't care about the male gaze
I see a lot of comments in this comment section talking about sexualization and "self objectification," and I think it's kind of dumb honestly
Sure, what we find sexy or attractive or whatever is influenced by the society we live in, and the male gaze is a part of that society
But why is it my responsibility to appeal or not to appeal to men? Why is that even a priority? Why does something being attractive to men automatically devalue a woman's attraction to it?
Honestly, one of the most empowering things for me as a woman has just been changing my mindset around sexualization and sexuality. I would always be really uncomfortable with my body and showing any part of it because I didn't want to be perceived as overly sexual or promiscuous or anything negative, especially since I'm bisexual and a lot of people will assume that I'm very sexual or promiscuous based off that alone
I had to stop viewing my body as a sexual object to feel comfortable being sexy. To see so many people view dressing in a more sexy way as turning yourself into a sex object for the male gaze is genuinely infuriating to me. The male gaze viewing my body as an object is exactly why I was so uncomfortable even showing my legs for the longest time, it was only after breaking out of that mindset did I feel comfortable being more "sexy"
My chest is not inherently sexual, my stomach is not inherently sexual, hell, even my private parts are not inherently sexual. The human body is really just a bunch of bone, flesh, and fluid (gross description, I know), there's nothing inherently sexual about that. Once I realized that, I felt so much happier with myself. I finally realized that if I dress a certain way and other people don't like it, that's on them. If I wear something slightly revealing and somebody thinks that makes me lesser, that says far more about them than me. My body doesn't exist for others
Also, the idea that a woman needs to dress a certain way to not attract the attention of or please men just reeks of sexism. Isn't that what people have been saying to justify assault? That if a woman dresses a certain way, she's "asking for it"? Besides, it's not like being "pure and innocent" as opposed to "sexual and promiscuous" has any less root in sexism. If we as women only think about ourselves through the perspective of men, then we don't get to win
I don't care if men think that lingerie is sexy, I think that lingerie is really pretty. I think that lingerie is very aesthetically pleasing, so I wear it for myself. Maybe that perception has been influenced by the culture I've grown up in, but that doesn't make the perception invalid. Why can't women enjoy something that men enjoy?
When I wear something sexy, I'm not objectifying myself. I don't view myself as an object. If somebody else does, that is on THEM, not me
People are so preoccupied with the male gaze, but being sexy or sexual as a woman is not inherently degrading, sexist, or an appeal to the male gaze. It's not inherently for men. Why don't we have a conversation about men? It is the responsibility of men to control themselves, it is the responsibility of men to view women as human beings, it is the responsibility of men to think with their brain instead of their dick. It is not my responsibility as a woman to to consider what a man will think of me every time I breathe. The problem isn't women enjoying things, the problem is men making assumptions and passing judgments on women for enjoying those things
Sorry for the ramble, I just have a lot of thoughts on the general topic of female sexuality and sexualization
The truth is deep down all women want to appeal to men. Its human nature. We all crave male validation here and there. So women strive to fit into beauty standards to conform.
Do you know why some people shame women for dressing sexy and why people slut shame women, on the other hand guys are praised for being promiscous? Its, because most people have this belief, that the easy way is the bad way and the hard way is the good way. Its easier for women to be sexy and to appeal to men, Its easier for women be get praise for their body, Its easier for women to have a high body count, on the other hand, evolution says that women are the ones who are "supposed" to settle down into a stable safe relationship to raise a kid. In my opinion, unconciously, but men and women who arent that popular with men are jealous of the women who can choose to enjoy the male gaze. The thing you also hate, is something most people are jealous about. The male gaze is a validation from outside obviously, not from inside and Its objectification too, but you still atleast know, you have a sexual value. Lot of people cant tell and feel that. Male virginity is rising with record speed, now I do believe, that society and the population is getting lower in value in average, but not even close to the speed the value of the average men decreases.
Now, dont misunderstand me, I am in no way in support of sexual objectification. Both men and women are human beings first and should be regarded as such. I just wanted share some reasons, that I think are highly responsible for shaming women who are not afraid of being sexual.
Excellent comment!
@@cbgh4637 No. That is not “the truth”.
Lol. You came full circle around it. If a woman wears sexy clothes men are going to be attracted. Basic biology. Yet people are more accepting of these things today. A man can choose to be respectful and look beyond her body. And it should be like that.
thank you for your take, i also have a lot of thoughts on the matter! of course, having the right of choice is indispensable in feminism, but we also need to question things we view as choices. For example, how come liberation is being served to us as appealing to the male gaze(naked women, lewd dances, even terms that mainstream feminism tries to reclaim, like bimbo, being positive now, it's all appealing to the male gaze)? (or) another example would be: white feminism loves to propagate the "choice to shave or not" but if most women are gonna shave anyway because the social stigma that comes with not shaving is too big, do we really have a choice? I'm not saying shaving is bad, or that being a bimbo/sexual woman is bad in any way shape or form, we just have to view things in context, so the movement is not going in a direction we wouldn't want it to be.
100% agree!!
Yess we definitely have to dig deeper philosophically, the concept of choice and liberty are usually not questioned by those people who casually say, “it’s my choice”. Is it really? But questioning things like this leads you into a much more complicated place...
@@user-wu1xu3ii9j oh no don’t feel like a bad feminist! you’re just human. we all have the desire to “fit in” at the end of the day...
First of all I would like to tell you congrats for discussing that controversial topic. However, I personnally agree with Megan Murphy. Because I think there is a misunderstanding here. She's not saying that women such as cardi B. should not decide for themselves, she's expressing the fact that what they're doing is not inherently feminist. They're just doing what works for them, to get out of poverty, labour. And it has been done before by other females. they're using their sexuality to get rich, and that's great for them. But it's not feminism. It's called succeeding thanks to media, image and I have to say it again, what works, what attracts. A lot of people are doing that. They use what sells. It's capitalism, not feminism.
I think something to consider sometimes in modern day feminism we equate sexual empowerment with dressing less modest or expressing our sexuality, where as modesty can also be a form of empowerment for women. We forget that feminism involves women behaving and believing how they seem fit. We shouldn’t push forward the agenda that to be a true feminist you must being overly confident with being sexual, it’s different for everyone. However we need to stop holding women accountable for being to ‘sexual’ when it really is the male gaze who sexualises them
Ya im a girl and i don't show my private parts to the world cuz that's for myself. I have self respect. They're called privates for a reason
I agree with what u said. Also, even though the male gaze does exist, I think women still shouldn't pander to it. We have to fight back and not let it control us. We shouldn't just hold the male gaze accountable but the women who participate in it too. All my life, since I was little, I was fully aware that the male gaze exists and that I am "some piece of cake to be enjoyed" That i must always be sexual, that i must always have my private parts out. That I have to please men. And it always made me so uncomfortable. I never catered to the male gaze tho, bc knew my worth. My body, my choice. Also, I have private parts and I'm fully aware that they are for me only and not the whole world. I always knew i was never something for all men to enjoy. I always knew i was never something for men to control. So ya whether men are being creepy or not, we shouldn't give into them. This isn't to say we shouldn't punish men who are being creepy and having his male gaze, bc we definitely should
The fact that the way I like to sexually express myself as a woman has to be policed/examined is a problem to me. I (sadly??)relate to the "male gaze" sexual view as a woman. That's the truth. I love Nicki Minaj and that sort of brashness, I feel something very cool in seeing these women showcase their sexuality within such misogynistic rules YET EXUDE POWER ! To me at least. I love it. But as a woman I have to escape that and aspire to more soft quiet vegan sexuality usually pinned on women when I SIMPLY FIND IT BORING ! And it becomes a polemic and a problem, I am a stupid bitch or a sad self oppressed poor foolish woman etc. It's...... tiring and boring.
You realize those aren't the only two options right?
I think you can express your sexuality in many ways, other than the Soft and Bold that you are talking about. Soft and Bold are to different sides from the same coin. Organic sexuality, or radical sexuality, pisses off more people than the male-gazed Bold and the conservative Soft, and it feels more personal and natural. An example for the types of sexuality could be: Organic-Rihanna (in her most recent years), Bold- Kim K, Soft-Ariana Grande
@Joshua Barnett No because there's more to life then man and male attention, a women's world doesn't revolve around man the same way as man don't live to please women and make the intire life about them
"vegan sexuality"? 🤔
@@veronikaturner3406 this terms are really getting out of hand aren't they? Lmao
I’m on team “let’s just not sexualize anyone.” Sex and sexuality are a part of 99% of the population, why do we need to express this in media all the time? We don’t fight about portraying diet differences between men and women, or bodily functions or whatever. Men are sexy and women are sexy. We shouldn’t objectify men or women and at the same time we shouldn’t objectify ourselves. Personally I’ve never wanted to see half naked men on screen- it was just common but bizarre to me. Same for women, it’s fine to do that but it’s so strange to me that everyone is fighting for that when in other cultures we’d express elegance and beauty through which fabrics we wore. Why do we need to fight so hard to be literally the same, when being treated as an equal should mean recognizing our own unique strengths and weaknesses and not dismissing them? Women are typically viewed as sexier than men in a lot of ways. We’re just powerful. Of course I think you should be allowed to do whatever you want, I just think it’s strange that we “want” to sexualize ourselves and can’t feel sexy without being revealing or explicitly discussing sexual behaviors. Why is it that guys are sexy while fully dressed in suits while women only are in small dresses? Classy but sexy also exists, and personally I’d fight to be seen as sexy through my personality, while being covered, knowing people would want more but it’s reserved for who I want to be reserved for. Instead of freeing the nipple (since it will never mean the same thing to men as it does to us) I think let’s just cover men’s nipples? Lol. Sexy means different things to all of us, and when we let men define what it is and find that to be the only way to free ourselves, we’re just giving them what they wanted all along just while pretending it’s for us. I believe in choice, but we do need to think about why we want these rights to show off more and things like that as a society, rather than just go for it.
Agree, when someone’s body speaks louder than their personality, then it is just objectification. And of course, anybody can do whatever they won’t, but I am not going to give them my attention, because I am interested in one’s personality, not the billionth exposed nipple 🥱
Nope, sexualising with consent is fine. Stop with this conservative bs. Let ppl be
Also sexuality is visual. It should be displayed in art.
That's like saying since women don't have rights, men's rights should be inhibited
That's bs. Being equal in that sense is stupid.
I don't advocate for covering women up. That's straight up objectification and disgusting. People who fight for this stuff couldn't care less about women. It comes from a place of contempt for sure.
Covering women up and moral policing is sexualization at its worst form
The issue with 'choice feminism' is NOT that we need to control women's choices, but that we need to be honest that just because a woman was free to make a choice and she thinks it worked out well for her as an individual, it doesn't mean that her choice was a feminist act or that her choices can't also lead to things that are bad for women as a group or might ultimately work against feminist goals.
yes! i think rather than judging women on what they do with the choice they’re given we should be ensuring that all women in the world get that choice and that freedom in the first place
Agree
Unpopular opinion but not everything women do has to be feminist or for female empowerment. Our lives shouldn’t be a battlefield and our actions don’t always need to be analysed. Cardi B didn’t have any agenda after releasing WAP, she just did it and many women do the same. To me people are trying to make WAP into something it doesn’t need to be. Cardi is a feminist but everything she does doesn’t need to a feminist anthem or whatever. Respectability politics are bullshit cuz let me tell you this: no matter how “respectable” you are you will still be abused and controlled by patriarchy.
that is so true
Which Patriarchy?😭
life is a battlefield though. It is illogical that a celebrity's actions shouldn't affect other people, especially since celebrities literally depend on their actions affecting other people for their livelihood. The idea that Cardi b or any other celebrity doesn't have an agenda is laughable, her agenda is to make money off the male gaze and the shock factor and that is obvious. Its like how Scarlett Johannsson makes billions off of men objectifying her then getting angry that men are objectifying her. She will accept the money they give her though.
i want to start by saying that loved this video! i think the problem is that because we do live in a society founded on patriarchy, everything we do is always viewed through the male gaze and it's inescapable. whether a woman chooses to profit from her sexuality or not is a decision that will be influenced by the demands of male-led society so it seems to be a lose/lose situation to me.
women who choose not to be viewed sexually do this because they fear they will not be as respected by men and those who choose to know that it will bring them some benefit in one form or the other from patriarchal society. these decisions are made in relation to the male, whether we are aware of it or not - masculinity is the standard that has been set for us.
until men are decentred completely, and the standard of masculinity is removed, these discussions on feminism will always fall short because they take place in a reality where women are not seen as equal to men, but as having to prove themselves, either by conforming to or rebelling against the male ideal.
I'm a girl and don't show my private parts to the world bc, well, those are MY PRIVATES meaning no one else has to see them. Those are for myself and I have self respect. I don't show them bc I'm scared men will disrespect me. I don't show them bc they're for me only. I really see 0 point in disrespecting myself and showing ppl something they shouldn't see
I really love your videos, you definitely put a lot of work and research on them, and they're definitely very interesting and eye-opening discussions. Keep up the great work!
Thank you so much!!
It's hard as a man to not feel attacked by my own mind when I want to look at a woman when popular entertainment is filled with stuff to appeal to a man's baser instincts and then everybody deconstructs it and puts the final blame on the male gaze.
True asfff
male gaze is not literally about looking at women.. male gaze is like how women are portrayed in media often by men rather than women, and their portrayal reflects what men want rather than what women actually are like. then young girls and women see this, and feel pressured to make themselves into this popular version of "women" shown through the "male gaze". i think it is also used to describe how women's intentions are not respected when viewed by men, such as a woman not wearing a bra to feel comfortable, a man may view it sexually even if it was not meant to be, and try to make her feel uncomfortable because of it.
Male Gaze isn't inherently a problem. It's problem is it's dominance over the Female Gaze. Women don't (or at least shouldn't) blame individual men for male gaze/their desires. It's not wrong.
@@TheReMorseCode thank god someone said it. I hate it when people DEMONISE male gaze. Imo media Should pander to both gazes equally right?
@@jefrreyjeffery2192 Both should be pandered to, dominance of one is equally bad imo, to generalize it very widely
No one forced her to go the photo shoot , be accountable for your own actions .
I enjoyed this video a lot. Well written. If you'd care for my take (a man, who doesn't appreciate objectification of women, done either by others, or themselves):
Earning money, being financially independent is very important, and I cannot criticise Cardi B for getting those the way she does, given her background, and her lack of privilege.
But I have a very simple question: at the societal level (not at the individual's level), is it truly empowering for women to have their entire career revolving around their body/sexuality, when it is really just pandering to the very men they're trying to be independent from?
If you claim that a woman objectifying herself is empowered, because she chooses to do it, I'd say the only way she can truly feel this way is if she selectively opens her eyes to who/what she's really serving. Would a woman go naked for a living, if no men bothered to look at her body? The answer is no.
If you're tying your entire career to catering to (mostly) male demand, aren't you still dependent on men for success? What kind of freedom is that?
What I meant when I said "selectively opening her eyes", I meant this: Ms. Emily can claim that she feels powerful, because she chose to become a revealing model. That's fair. But if she was to actually look at the larger picture, she's just pandering to the male gaze, and her entire career depends on it. Maybe then, she wouldn't feel the as powerful as she does.
There's a reason why most fathers don't want their daughters entering such professions; it's because they understand who is truly in control here; and it's not the women, unfortunately.
Just to reiterate, I do not hate these women, or wish them ill, or even think of them as evil; they're doing what they can, to the best of their power, to live life. But I hope young children recognise that these aren't role models; there's a lot more truly fulfilling, meaningful career paths to choose from, which can also make you financially independent, which do not propagate unhealthy lenses, through which to view women.
I do agree with some of the points you made but I would just like to nuance a bit by saying that they aren't only followed by men, Cardi B's music resonates with women and women are her biggest supporters, same with Emily and her clothing line ☺️ Thanks for sharing your perspective !
@@AliceCappelle alright, thanks for letting me know. I admit, I may have been uninformed about their fanbases.
Looking back, I should have worded my initial comment a little better. Thank you for taking the time to reply!
@@AliceCappelle also, in case my initial comment came off as hypocritical or sexist: I'm against male bodily objectification as well. I guess you could just call me prudish in that sense. I just feel like anyone who attracts eyes simply by showcasing their body, is not admirable, because it's just not a real value add to society.
Of course, not everyone has to be as vital to society as say, a healthcare professional, or an engineer, etc. I'm also not saying that entertainers don't have value.
But it ticks me off when they publicly say that what they're doing serves anyone other than themselves.
A model is inspiring women...to do what exactly? Be more confident with their body? More bold about their wardrobe choices? Don't see them doing that. Cardi B, through her songs, encourages a straight up dishonorable lifestyle (you know which song I'm talking about).
I don't see any mature adult buying into their hogwash. It's all PR for their brand, and PR is simply manipulating kids and emotionally unstable adults to buy their sponsored products. Reminds me of the debacle around IG models showing up to BLM protests in the USA, just to pose for a photo op, and then disappear.
My point being, that I see these individuals as opportunistic, which on it's own isn't a bad thing; it's just when they start preaching to women to be inspired by them that I start to see through their motivations, which I feel others fail to do.
I read all your comments and have to say I kind of agree and kind of disagree. Take myself for example. The makeup industry is a multi billion dollar business and dominated by big male players. During the pandemic lots of people stopped wearing makeup because they realized they didn’t need it since they didn’t go out. But plenty of us wore makeup every single day to play, with colors and textures and senses. We dressed up for literally no one to see even in our apartments. If I was sent to an island, or to study abroad and never have any lasting relationships, I’d still want my cute clothes and makeup because it makes me feel creatively fulfilled and helps me have fun. Not all things that cater to traditionally fueled male beauty is mutually exclusive with self fulfillment. Agree with most other points though; the power is not ENTIRELY in ones own court.
@neil 👏🏼great insight, thank you for sharing💞
its not liberation if the best means to attain a living wage is via self-objectification
I think the question really should be less about empowerment and more about what kind of world a woman is participating in creating when she expresses the power that she has.
If your goal is to participate in creating a world where men are encouraged to follow enticement, then you need to really consider what you're enticing them to crave, and as a result, what they will expect from other women, and what kind of life they'll want to have.
If you're promoting an enticing illusion of sexual availability, you're training men who are already susceptible to enticement to go towards that craving, for some even to the level of addiction, in his everyday thoughts, habits, and making healthy partnership look like broccoli next to the colorful candy that's right there teasing him with the illusory promise of instant gratification.
What type of man do you want to have coming to you, and what kind of man do you want to see more of in the world?
Personally, I prefer not to encourage the people in my life to look at me as if I'm sexually accessible when I'm not. I prefer to know that because I don't express myself to the whole world as a sexual enticement, that the people who see me walking by, they just see a person. Not a shiny piece of candy trying to show off assets he can't have. Not someone whose enticing habits train the mind to continue to seek instant gratification, and further remove them from an interest in, and ability to, create successful and healthy loyal partnerships, so that shallow gratification becomes his goal. Not someone who gives him reason to think about going to a strip club or watching porn instead of going out and meeting a nice girl who he will be able to keep promises to when he makes them. What are we training our culture to value, when we interact with the men we encounter?
What behaviors and goals are you encouraging in others through your everyday actions, that will influence society and create the men that your daughters or your nieces will be approached by when they come of age?
That's what we need to think about. We have plenty of power. What kind of world will we create with it, one person at a time?
Amen girl this is exactly how I feel, just never been able to put it into words 🖤✨
Great insight! Thank you for sharing 🌟
This is exactly what I was thinking, though you worded it perfectly!❤️ And the problem is that people advocating the need for decency and healthy boundaries are now seen as prudish.It's upsetting to see the whole world and especially the current generation idolizing the shallow Kardashians who inspire nothing in women but shallowness and narcissism and self-objectification. I don't ever see a Kardashian empowering women in terms of education or independence. They are further destroying them by introducing unrealistic body standards and profiting off of people's insecurities. I never understood how it's women empowerment.
love this comment. but sadly I think our culture breeds a focus on self interest and narcissism and no concern for how our actions affect the world and I don't see that changing anything soon. Western cultures have always emphasized individual desire over the community.
The most sane well thought comment I’ve seen from a women in this retarded comment section.
I think about this a lot. I don’t have the mental bandwidth to go into it because it sends me into anxious spirals almost daily and the intersectionality of it all doesn’t help (I’m a small , curvy Asian girl). I find a lot of my life choices feel limited because the male gaze holds me back. I have a wonderful and respectful husband but the world isn’t fair, and on top of that, I am a teacher and am always aware of my influence, even outside the classroom. But, I’m also a 23 year old who wants to do hot girl summer shit sometimes. It’s hard being a woman out here, and even harder when it feels like I have to be the “Michelle Obama” type for the eyes on me.
What would you do if it wasn't for the male gaze?
@@NJGuy1973 wear a bunch of hot egirl clothes and feel cute in my body! I think one of the bigger issues for me is how to dress “flatteringly” which means showing off my ⏳which is inherently kind of not modest. But it’s the way I feel the most cute and least whale-ish. Of course, if I go out like that I think people may stare and make judgements about me so it ends up being something I do just at home to feel confident.
@@TheStitchWitchPodcast honestly what makes you think those clothes are 'cute'... Society made you think. They are cute
Female empowerment is not about doing the same as men do: objectify men, it's about setting ourselves free from that hipersexualization of our bodies. Cardi B does not really help with that. Sexual liberation is not showing your bodies on social media/music video "by choice" (for some influencers/artists without showing their body they wouldn't make as much money, so I don't see that 'free choice') sexual liberation is precisely be taken serious in our sexuality, to have equality in bed for example, to be able to say what we want without men being offended, if is NO is NO, we are seen as a human being and not an object they can have access anytime. Female empowerment is giving little girls referents different from just beautiful women, showing them that you can be successful and happy without having to rely on your body. Now, modeling is just objectifying when the focus is on body not on the real product such as clothes or accessories. This is my opinion, I'm still learning and thank you for these spaces where we can learn from each other, sorry if my english is not perfect, not my native language.
I agree with u
When can we stop censoring sexuality?
Sexualising men and women is OK. Gosh sexuality is basic human nature.
@@jefrreyjeffery2192 sexuality is not as simple as you think. Normally sex is regulated by shame, if poeple stop feeling shame it means that sex will no longer be regulated, sexualizing people is just the tip of the iceberg, sex has so many consequences and aspects that soround it and cannot be taken casually. If you sexualize either of the genders the human part starts to be losen and you'd think of people as things you can use, and I don't think that is a nice path for society. A serious consequence of this is the increase of prostitution, rape, traffic, diseases, plus people not wanting to commit and form families.
@@Danivriv conservatives say the same that naked sexuality in media causes r@pe😂💀 honestly, sex isn't shamed anymore, idk where you live, but sex is pretty common in western world. Anyways sexualising without CONSENT and WITH EXPLOITATION is wrong, but there's nothing wrong with Sexuality. Sexuality is visual that's why it's always been expressed in art, since the dawn of humanity. And there's nothing wrong with "male gaze" or male sexuality. Why can't men enjoy eroticism?
The fact that Women have to get naked & Men don't is NOT equality. Im NOT saying we should shame these women, either.
Plenty of women who are rich without getting naked.
The only problem is, men make it difficult to do anything else after it. Especially is you do sex work and you decide to change careers.
They will find a way to make it haunt you forever. Even if it's just one photo
Cardi B is successful, which makes her an empowered woman. Still, empowered in a system that keeps women down and she definitely contributes to that.
if by showcasing your ass in some skimpy outfit to millions of guys far and wide with a hard on and brainwashing young women that that's how to be successful in life then yes, how empowering
@@stanbolkowy166 🙄🙄. You're implying that what cardi is doing is shameful and embarrassing and she's not worthy of respect because of that. Your comment reeks of condescension. Cardi has never told any girl that that's the only way to be successful. Your comment implies again that women who dress a certain way are to you worthy of respect. Why can't she dress in skimpy outfits and still be respected and empowered? Are you trying to define what empowerment means or what it should mean?
@@dahliapeters6309 I don't think (s)he really means that actually!
Cadi B is empowered because she is making money over her body/sexuality, but that's still what men wants actually
And I think it really has nothing to do with respect, she deserves as much respect as anyone else
Like Emily, she deserves respect like any human being, but I think that's hypocritical! see, in Gone Girl we saw her for like 5 minutes in total, and what do we saw ? Her tits
I think that they are just contributing even more to the male gaze, even though they think that they are doing what they want with their body (it's true because they choose to show off), they still show what people want to see, not what they want to show.
I don't know though, it's my opininon about these two persons, but it's a very tricky topic, a lot of variables !
@@Happyfiften I agree
@@stanbolkowy166 i agree with you😁💖
According to this, women are powerless if the same male gazes would stop giving any crap about their bodies.
It's difficult, in a world that monetises the male gaze, to reduce the objectification of women
If you sell your body for money then you're literally objectifying yourself. How are women going to stop this objectification of women if their partaking in it themselves.
@@jeremiahnoar7504 people go where money flows
@@domhuckle as a libertarian, that’s perfectly fine to me. The problem is the shear hypocrisy of shaming men for objectification when that’s exactly what these women are doing. Like how are you gunna reduce this objectification if you’re out there supplying it? That’s makes as much sense as a Fast Food corporation complaining about obese people.
@@domhuckle because they’re hedonistic
Since you talked about idea of choice in feminism, this very much reminds me of the current makeover of Billie Eilish from baggy clothes to lingerie/corset for the fashion magazine, justified by using the idea of her "choice". But doesn't this fails the body positivity movement she was linking herself with for all this time. Would be great if you can make a video on this topic.
But why is the failing the body positive movement ? Her using lingerie and more fitted clothes because she wants to or because she is looking to regain ownership over her body it’s not bad. Also let’s not forget that she was a CHILD so we could not expect for her to dress the same. There was nothing wrong on the way she used to dress ( well maybe the fact that she did it as a mechanism to protect her self) and there is nothing wrong with how she has chosen to dress now.
I thought so too! I don't listen to her music or follow her, but when I heard that she dressed in baggy clothes to not be sexualized I had mad respect that she refused to be confined by the way people view her body - and then the moment she was legal she had a photoshoot in lingerie? Felt kinda wrong to me...
@@mariacastano5046 because her recording studio overlords want her to wear skimpy clothes like all female pop stars. Female pop and sleaziness go hand in hand with maybe a very few exceptions
I think it’s not expressing your sexuality, let’s be real . You do that in the bedroom. Women do it for validation and if they can make money off of it that’s even encouraging the behavior. The sad thing is that women put their self worth on their looks that they don’t accept themselves.
Yep
on card b being a stripper: i think people who judge her lack class consciousness because she became a stripper because didnt have other choices in life at that moment and well, we all need money to live. it wasnt like she was romanticizing being a stripper.
Will there ever be true 'equality' when 'male gaze' is such an overpowering economic demand? (Compared to female gaze).
Both gazes Should be shown in media but don't DEMONISE the male gaze
It's not about restricting "choice," it's about looking at what the choices actually are. Think of people who argue that there shouldn't be minimum wage because everyone should have the "choice" to work for a nickel an hour, or we should all have the "choice" not to have healthcare coverage. You can support Cardi's choice to be a stripper while still acknowledging that her "choice" was "stay with a man who beats you" or "strip for other men." You can support Emily's choice to be a model while still acknowledging that she (and most other models) have very little choice in how they work or how they are portrayed. Basically, look at what their alternatives are.
I agree that you can respect someone's choice to become a stripper or something like that and acknowledge the factors that influence said choice. With that being said that does justify the degradation and shame these hyper-sexualized women face.
choices are also based on the knowledge/wisdom you have about the world. I don't think independent choices exist. All choices are simply you considering the different pressures put on you by yourself, your society, environment, family, friends, role models, and choosing which pressure/s to give into. Human biology also serves to limit which pressures you can give into, which is often ignored since people think nothing is biological and everything can be blamed on society aka simply 'smash patriarchy' and all sexism will disappear. Reality is biology and society are interconnected, nature affects the nurture and nurture affects nature.
Woah,,, that was interesting ;0. I got a new perspective I can see through now because of your video, thank you. Keep up the great videos, I'll continue supporting :0!
Thank you!! 😊
This is such an important subject, and I'm still processing all the information that I get every single day to understand where the line takes place. It's hard, but I thank you for doing content like this helping us to have more information to have this important conversation going on.
I completely relate to what you said, I'm still trying to figure out my opinion on all of this but at least we're having these discussions
Unpopular opinion: Social influencers monetizing on revealing their bodies on social media is just modern prostitution.
amazing video! as a constructive criticism: lower the background music a little. idk if its just me but its hard to focus on what youre saying w the music at the same volume
A friend told me that as well so I'll keep that in mind, thank you x
Full honesty, I really want some rich woman to overly sexualize men in the media like they do women. Like have her pay to put more barely dressed men on magazines, ads, commercials, movies, shows, music vids, and EVERYTHING than women. And see what happens. Ik that’s like fighting fire with fire but I wanna know
As A MEN I AGREED. Sexuality Should pander to both men and women.
Intersectionality is really a crucial aspect of this discussion though, especially because often feminism comes primarily from the white feminist perspective. If we take intersectionality seriously, the particular form of discrimination someone is never just on one side of their identity: Black women are victim of the sexism that is specific to Black women, a type of sexism largely unfamiliar to that of white women. Simultaneously, Black women are victim of a racism that is unfamiliar to Black men. A very simple (too simple, of course) example is how white women are thought to need protection, whereas Black women are hypersexualized. Not saying this makes it all clear-cut - if anything, it only further complicates the matter - but it is something that I think is vital to these discussions, ESPECIALLY when it comes to sexualization.
For me, I don't want to be equal to men, nor the same. I want to break the table and move forward- I want to delete it all. I don't think feminism should be male-centric or about being like/equal to them. It should be about intersectionality.
What do you mean by "move forward"???
Since the 80s, feminism hasn't been about being equal or alike. It's been about power. It's been about trying to give women more power than men. This video is proof of that.
@@jeremiahnoar7504 In fact, femism has never been equality or equity, it began as a movement of women for women, nothing to do with equality, and that continues to be its official definition.
Yknow...someone has to pay for that table
I think the problem is that those type of jobs are one of the highest paying ones for young girls, and that they are because of the male gaze, and mysoginistic culture.
i think it's female empowerment in that it gives women a place to express their sexuality, but at the same time this male dominated world isn't ready to take this kind of women empowerment as it is, our society takes it as proof that women's sexuality exists for men's sake.
Other girl Said in the comment: "We should do whatever we want, and stop Judging"
My God, they want control everything. You can't have both ways. People Judging you is their right the same way you can do whatever you want.
you really think record labels push this kind of garbage because they're concerned about female empowerment? You really think Cardi B is the one that comes up with her video and photo shoot? get real.
Nowadays the only way a woman can get empowered is by being openly sexual lol it’s just another symptom of red lipstick high heels feminism that just serves the patriarchy
The record labels say ‘sex sells, parade around half naked’
Tired of empowering = being naked all the time
(thank you people for being here and giving me hope for humanity. most of the comment section will probably give me nightmares XD)
Women act as though people don't want them to take their clothes off and it's rebellious. Like it's not allover every other music video. Makes no damn sense.
exactly. Why blame a woman? We as women are controlled by men cuz duh, patriarchy! And we wear degrading things cuz of these creepy men and so men are the problem. Oh wait... I thought we dressed for ourselves not men why is this not making sense 😭
I was completely shocked when I looked at your subscriber count, you have so many, but I'd expect hundreds of thousands with this type of quality and engaging content. You're going so far! Really enjoyed your video
Thank you so much ! It really means a lot 💕
the issue for me is that a man directed the music video for WAP, three men were involved in the songwriting process and another man produced the track. perhaps it's female empowerment, but it's not female power.
Same. It was men who were involved in the song writing
So? Men cannot write sex songs now?
The singer was there in the editing room. She had the say in what went in the video and what didn't. She's every bit as responsible for that song as any man involved.
Exactly and when nude celebrity pictures get leaked everyone is quick to blame the celebrity for having nude pictures but NEVER the hacker that stole the pictures and violated human rights.
Feel really terrible for Emily and I hate that men and I'm sure eve some women think its okay to do that just because of the way Emily dresses and the industry she is in. Just because you've seen an actress or model nude once doesn't give you the right to use her naked photos unsolicited..this world is so effing toxic 🤮
I think it's right
You got recommended to me!! Your videos are well made, I'm sensing you're going to blow up hehe
I pray each day 😂 Thank you so much !!
Also got recommended to me a few times
You make really good quality content, it's only a matter of time until one of your videos goes viral. Good job!
Thank you so much 🥰
Gosh, I've been avoiding conversations around this topic because it's such a complicated, often misinterpreted one. I loved the analysis. I've always asked myself which side of this notion I'm leaning towards. After watching the video and reading the pinned comment, I got more clarity on it.
Feminism has never been about personal choices and benefits. If you exploit the misogynistic views of women in order to make gains for yourself, that is not feminist.
Unfortunately, feminism, and especially white feminism history is the history of greater personal choice and benefits in the wider frame of white supremacy. We start getting concerned about it now that black women start benefitting from it as well. I'm not dismissing feminist struggles, we came a long way but you cannot deny its flaws
Thank you for the thought provoking video, Alice! I think rather than looking at the individual choices (or non-choices) a woman makes, we should rather (1) look at the capitalistic market relations - having to sell your labor (and thus, as woman being more at risk to have to sell your body/image vs. doing it by total free choice) and (2) the demands of the consumers - influenced by the male gaze.
I watched a short conversation on the BBC website a few months ago between two women in their early 20s; they'd both recently suffered life changing accidental injuries resulting in partial amputation - one lost a lower arm and the other lost her lower leg. One of them described slightly tearfully how she missed the way some men used to look at her before she lost her arm and she was having a hard time adjusting to what she described as "this new identity".
In western countries, men will always look because they almost can't help themselves - I find it much easier to keep my head/eyes straight these days as I get older and effectively disengaged from the dating market.
Other societies address the male gaze by varying degrees of policing of the appearance of women and girls although there is little to suggest that this improves the behaviour of males markedly.
Joni Mitchell's song "Sex Kills" is an extremely powerful statement which takes in the issue (amongst others) of the monetisation of the male gaze and of the female appearance.
I would not advocate that men should not look at women but I would suggest they act with decorum and discretion - why behave like a pig?
We live in a society in which anything and everything is monetised including the female appearance with willing "consumers and vendors". Society is not about to change any time soon so the best we can hope for and encourage is that women's behaviours and actions in this context are not subjected to public opprobrium or censure although this arguably does little for the sensibilities of "non-particpants".
I cannot deny that I when watch a talk by Megan Murphy or Alice Cappelle, I have to divert part of my attention from their appearance because I find them both very appealing and thus I often wonder how much "energy" is lost by men dealing with their unconscious/involuntary response to the female appearance and what might be the real-world impact of that loss.
Two further points: 1. black people are *NOT* a homogenous mass; we come in all shapes, sizes, intellects, social classes etc. (compare the general outlook and perspective of West Indian black students in American universities and that of young black men living in challenging urban environs in America). 2. The comment made by the speaker about "a JK Rowling type of feminism" is *incredibly disappointing* because it's representative of a dreadfully wasteful ideological schism which has opened up amongst thinking women ironically as a direct response to a phenomenon which has its source in men!
This was amazing you have a new subscriber. I'm glad you spoke about intersectionality. It is what is missing a many modern conversations about feminism. How can you understand a woman's choices and tie it in to the movement at large if you do not take in the historical context? Also, I see feminism as 1. A woman's right to choose (individual) without 2. Being restricted on the basis of sex (movement). So looking at choices from the perspective of "oh let's restrict these choices to preserve the purity of the movement" is contradictory, to put it politely.
I'm also really thankful that you discussed the crossroads of workers rights in this new wave of feminism because that also links back to how individual choices impact the movement. Instead of focusing energy on the perception of the movement by outsiders, we should be looking at the implementation of policies and laws to ensure that personal choices do not lead to consequences that put women in danger (physical, financial, et al).
To wit I will end by saying capitalism sucks and is a major reason why this is even a conversation that needs to be had because it's really not about ethics is it? It's about money.
Thanks for your analysis !
Sexuality is such a natural part of being human. I think it's in the best interest of a progressing world and overall mental health to stop politicizing and moralizing sex. Sex work is legitimate work. Sexual expression can be art. Sexuality can be used as a tool. All these things are neither good or bad. It's the choices we make surrounding sex that is.
Yes INCLUDING MALE SEXUALITY. As a man, i also want to be sexualised. Women should enjoy us too in media.
there is a difference between expressing sexuality in a way that "is attractive to men" and objectifying yourself, belitteling yourself, hypersexualising yourself through the male gaze. the first is fine, the latter is problematic and is harmful to both men and women, very much not making this whoole patriarchy situation any better. Although of course generally its very much more men that need to change their behavior and the way they see the world and other people and how they treat people, than women. Bad english, sorry
What would you say the difference is?
@@elizajobbins3368 the first one is when you expres your own sexuality, and for one reason or another, a larger number of men find it attractive. the other one is playing the role of a male fantasy, perhaps a power fantasy or otherwise made for the patriarichal mans ego and dominans and entitlement or insecurity etc. When you are the object for the other person. somtething like that. someone else can probably explain it better than me though
There's a lot of overlap though
Celeste Newton in some cases, sure absolutely, in other cases, no
I agree with you
Love the video! Just a suggestion for future videos - is there a way to add captions? It’s a little hard to hear what you were saying, but I really love your voice and the way you talk, it’s just a bit hard to differentiate the words. Still understood 85% of it and it’s a very informative video, thank you :) 💜
The music was a bit loud, it didn't help :'(
@@AliceCappelle It’s alright, you’re aware now, thanks for everything anyway 🥰
Feminism has started to become less about women and more about men.
Let's go the patriarchy always wins
You are absolutely brilliant, Alice!! I love everything about your videos and channel!
But what about shallowness? Vanity? Superficiality? Narcissism? Because this is what these women promote 95% of the time. We need to cut the crap here. And they do it for what? Followers? Likes? Celebrity? Emily complains about toxic masculinity in her new book when those mens are making her famous on IG? This is beyond stupid
@Sally Ann ...??? Emily Ratajkowski wrote a book that’s coming out next fall about her body and she speaks about toxic masculinity. The men that objective her... the men that’s give her exposure on social media so this is hypnotic coming from her
@Sally Ann um do you know the definition of the word...?
I love your constant inclusion of intersectional feminism and self awareness- YOU'RE A QUEEN!
I Love love love your video essays!!!
11:47 Is the best part of the video for me. I think it's good to de-glamorize Emily's & Cardi's actions & call it for what it is - them just doing their job. That puts things into context, & helps us understand that they're just people, like the rest of us, going to work everyday. It also frames the sketchy things that happened to them during the course of their job for what it is - a violation of workplace safety.
Hi. I am glad I found this channel. I always feel troubled with such societal issues. I as a young woman personally feel uncomfortable that we promote to younger generations songs, videos, movies that portray our gender just as sex and nothing more. Why elegance and other merits like education, manners, and self-love aren't being celebrated as sex does? I honestly feel women who twerk, show sexual imagery, and in general continue entertaining the male gaze on social media are doing so due to insecurity. And honestly, then complain why men cannot show respect. My mother raised me by herself and told me once that real self-empowerment is to never depend on any man and being elegant and smart. I hope someone out there agrees with my points.
I agree with all u said
I agree
The problem is that sex is a product. And in this situation it's normal to sell what you've got, and it's a little bit empowering (I mean how much guys do you know only for nude pictures? ). When women and their sexuality won't be considered as a product for selling, so it won't be a choice of survival strategy. So the problem is a male gaze.
The male gaze is probably why you exist and were born to begin with.
I don't understand 💀 why is male Sexuality a problem?
If a woman is posting nudes, or doing anything erotic, isn’t it her sexuality that’s the focus? Like don’t many of these women do it just because that’s what they like? And that’s not bad either. They like showing themselves off, and men like it when they are showing themselves off, and she can always stop anyways. It’s mutual, and it’s just male and female sexuality at play basically. Straight men like women, straight women like men.
@@merry6671 I'm sure blind ppl can reproduce
@@miguelpadeiro762 Yes, a society of blind people probably can, after growing a snout and digging holes in your lawn
I loved your conclusion! in the end, we are always debating an ethics - which always aims to control the female figure - which never have a conclusion about what is "right" (and never will i guess). and as you said yourself, from which perspective, right?! anyway, I loved your video!
What a great video that opens up such an interesting discussion ! Your video came up on my recommended, what a great find 🤩
Thank you 💓
If you get rid of your feminity: misoginy!
If you are sexy: misoginy!
Bruhh
Everything is misogyny for them. Let yourself be however you want
Male gaze èé.
*meanwhile on tiktok/of: with pre teens, teens and 20's girls doing hourglass, corset , boobaz and whatever challenge there is lmao.
And don't tell me most of these girls are homeless or something, they just love attention and the power it has.
For movies it's the same except: it's all about business. If there's an audience (men) that spends money for boobaz because it's instinctive then movies and media will show boobaz to sell.
What most people and feminists need to undestand is that we view the other gender with a different gaze.
That's why some buff muscle guys don't understand why their pics where they flex don't gather as much attention from the other gender (and pics where they're skinny/ normal can attracts more), meanwhile girl don't understand why men are so obssesed with appearance hence the term "male gaze".
Put simply, naive women expect men to see them the same way they do women, "respectfully" we could say, but when they realize that they don't , they think it's wrong and sexist.
I think str ippers, OF girls, models etc are pragmatic and act in a way that advantage them.
It's about power indeed. They have such a confidence boost doing it, on top of the money.
Btw, there's romcom for the female gaze.
Absolutely love this! Very insightful video - perfectly on point.
I have been binge watching your videos, and I just want to say I love them. In this particular video, I felt the concept of choice to strike me. As a former model signed to a top agency in the country, I was extremely uncomfortable with my contribution to the male gaze. It’s not who I am. I was never that sexual in public. To many males, this makes me undesirable. As if because I choose not to present myself sexually in the forthright, that I must be a bore behind closed doors. But still I made the choice to not go further with it, because it’s my decision to decide how to present myself. Does this mean I look down on other women who make the opposite choice as me, the women I modeled alongside and had pleasant conversation with at castings? Of course not. We all respected ourselves the same, regardless of outward sexuality. The very topic of women’s outward sexuality being something of a male’s gaze, and not our own decision to make, is just a simple example of how misogynistic our world still is. If you don’t show yourself sexually, you’re a prude. If you do, you’re not a feminist and you’re pandering to the male needs. What is that? How do we shift that mindset?
Great questions. I was a stripper in NYC in the 80s - though it was a relief in many ways for me at the time from other labors and limits and radically improved my self love and acceptance - of course it was also creepy and brutalizing and I worked alongside women who had very bad outcomes from the life. My next step was to return to college - still a helpful choice in the 80s- unsure how good a choice that would be now.
Thanks for bringing up this topic - it cant be encapsulated in one video, that's for sure.
Warm regards
Jennie
I have absolutely no problem with what Cardi is doing, as long as it’s what she wants and not what the male side of the music industry forces her into
Love your video
But it is exactly what the male side of the industry wants to see, and outside the industry as well considering she trended on phub, let's stop pretending men are mad at women s3xualising themselves they're 100% enjoying it.
@@whitelilies3799 They are and they're not. Look at any music video from the 60s and 70s featuring female artists and you will always see a slew of comments from men saying how slim, elegant and tattoo free the women were then.
I guess it's a generational thing, but I think that even the men who enjoy it (are they the majority of Cardi B's fanbase?) like the spectacle, but wouldn't wish it on their daughters.
Except for the violence and the vitriol lol thats a problem
06:58 Such a great argument, I didn't see it that way before. Thank you for the great analysis!
Watching your videos always give me the motivation to think critically and be more courageous. I hope to have a channel like yours one day.