I thought the MQA video was good then I watched this one! Bloody brilliant, science based explanation of how electrical interference has nothing to do with snake oil. As a direct result of this vid bought a usb galvanic isolator (the intona 7054), 2 decent usb cables (also sorted power supply end out too) and my god my setup has been improved to a new level! I will for sure sort patreon support! Great work
Dear Goldensound, In this world where pure gold and sneak oil (EDIT : « snake ») are sometimes so difficult to tell apart, your reviews are really in a league on their own, thanks to your deep understanding, objective measurements, and explanation skills. Very helpful. Kudos ! And thank you so much.
Wow, really enjoying this channel and the clear technical explanations. I'm glad to find out that my DAC has PLL for all SPDIF inputs, I was about to go researching a Pi2 AES!
I thought by now any reasonable DAC would have it's own internal elastic buffer and just internally re-clock using it's own precision clocks. Paul Lesso wrote an AES paper about S/PDIF design 15 years ago called "A High Performance S/PDIF Receiver". A small buffer chip should be super cheap these days, and should be able to wipe out any jitter from a PC optical port. I get the impression audiophiles like to make simple problems hard.
@@sanjacobs6261 Delay is bad if you are watching a movie or trying to mix tunes as a DJ, cuz the audio will arrive too late. But if you only listen, it doesnt matter if the audio comes out a second later then it got send.
@@gayusschwulius8490 For reclocking you usually use atleast 2 flipflops. This means that it's atleast 2 cycles of a clock worth of delay. The clock in this case has the frequency of the bitclock which is usually 44.1k*16bit*2 = 1411200bit/s. Which corresponds to 0.7microseconds of delay PER flipflop. I'd say delay typically becomes audible in live content at about 15-25ms. You could legit use a thousand flipflops and still not hear the delay.
6:40 for what it's worth an OCXO is still voltage-tuned (EFC) with a typical pulling range of something like 1-2e-7. The ovenized part is for short-term stability, not frequency adjustment. Essentially, quartz crystals have a characteristic curve of frequency change vs temperature change over temperature, which is very different for different "cuts" (the literal way the crystal is cut and polished). The standard is the AT cut, which is pretty much all quartz crystals you see everywhere. The AT cut crosses 0 Delta-Hz/Delta-K at around 25 °C. Which is just about perfect for normal ambient room temperatures. But the slope around that point is steep (relatively speaking, so let's say you're at 20 °C, you might be getting 5 ppm/K or so). Now the clever trick about OCXOs is that they use different cuts, often the SC cut. The SC cut has a completely different response to temperature changes; it crosses 0 at around 90 °C or so, and has a very gentle slope around this area. So OCXOs keep their crystal heated to a very _stable_ 85-95 °C, using a control loop. The attenuation of ambient temperature changes by the control loop colludes with the shallow slope of the dHz/dT to give extremely low tempcos. The _expense_ of that is: SC cut crystals are much more expensive (tiny tiny tiny fraction of the market), OCXOs are a lot of hassle to build and even fast-stabilizing types will exhibit a pretty wild swing from turning on to becoming mildly stable (at least 15+ minutes), they have very high power consumption compared to normal oscillators (couple Watts steady-state vs. a few mW for a normal oscillator and maybe 50-100 mW for something fancy. (And some OCXOs tend to fail under repeated power cycling, like you'd do in a residential setting -- they're _absolutely not_ designed for that and _will not_ hold their specs when treated like that). Most (all?) OCXOs have their own reference voltage which is typically ovenized as well. Sort of like bootstrapping, the reference has a tempco (selected for ~0 tempco at the elevated operating temperature, another reason these are expensive), so it would impact the temperature controller, so it's ovenized itself. It's of course stable, the tempcos of precision references are tiny to begin with. Now the reason people went to this trouble is that for, mostly physical experiments, extremely accurate and stable clocks are a useful tool. A good OCXO achieves short-term stability better than 1e-12, that's one part per billion, or for the typical 10 MHz reference, that's less than 0.00001 Hz variation over a few seconds. (Jitter and stability are not the same thing). These are mechanically vibrating devices: Vibration creates low-level spurs. Most physical phenomena influence oscillator output, temperature is just a big one. Gravity is another; angling or rotating a quartz changes the frequency (much more than 1e-12). So for optimal performance you'd want to dampen vibrations of all frequencies. Sounds like something you could sell to audiophiles. Big fat granite rock on a bunch of thick steel rope springs. Obviously, as you allude to at the end, the oscillator can't actually be used as a reference for anything (what's 10 MHz / 44.1 or 48 kHz?), so you're looking at a fractional-N PLL anyway, and at that point the quality of the output clock is liable to be swamped by the PLL's qualities (or lack thereof). To be frank, a normal quartz is probably just dandy for audio, if the rest of the system design holds up. Audiophility seems to be especially liable to buzzword engineering instead of system-level engineering.
OCXOs are fine and dandy, but frequency stability per se doesn't matter in audio, phase noise matters - OCXOs are for long term stability, phase noise is pulse-to-pulse stability, close but not related. And even then it doesn't matter - a lowly jelly bean quartz crystal is like 4 or more orders of magnitude better than needed, you need to clock your DAC so badly, with jitter on the order of tens of nanoseconds for the artifacts to even arise from the noise floor, let alone be audible, but hey, audiophilistines know better and don't take anything more than femtoseconds.
I appreciate the actual graphs that prove what you're saying. I'm new to high-end audio, and for the most part I assume that the things that people tell me, like "this is better than this because this one costs 10x as much and it makes me feel good" is mostly subjective, but you've supplied receipts which actually puts weight behind your words.
Also: NONE of these people commenting here, nor the uploader has ever heard jitter in their lives. They do not conduct proper blind testing but just conclude things. Measurements do not lie but most people don't understand the decibel scale and the number in it. If it is below -100dB: do not bother, you will never be able to detect that in any real life scenario, yo can only catch it with measurements. In most cases we should not care what happens below -70dB but it is better to be safe and aim for a bit better than Redbook, 96dB dynamic range.
Thanks for the amazing review. Ethernet factor is huge, and it is ignored in many digital audio reviews. I did a $200 investment in my roon Server in the basement (6 core xeon with a noisy fan) and it changed the sound all over my house not only where I had the best roon endpoint ($4000 DYI).
This is a great video! I just purchased the iFi iPurifier SPDIF 2, and I really enjoy it. It makes the optical audio on my PC so much better in terms of quality, and music sounds amazing. I can even play my songs on Tidal at 192 KHz. I haven't noticed much on my Xbox One, but I still use it to prevent jitter.
I think these problems should have been solved in the DAC. The whole reason I am considering buying an external DAC is to get rid of electrical noise. Cue the "YOU HAD ONE JOB!" meme.
Considering that analog LPs are still considered to be the ultimate experience by many high-end enthusiasts, a 60db noise floor is not a problem and a 110db one even less.
@@dingdong2103 you’re misunderstanding the problem. The issue isn’t noise floor: it’s electronic noise and jitter which are a *completely* different thing.
@@GodfreyMann What is 'electronic noise' if not the thing that rises the noise floor? And jitter is not a practical problem in reality, it's just marketing jargon: hifigo.com/blogs/guide/what-is-digital-jitter-and-how-to-avoid-jitter-dac-101-part-3
@@dingdong2103 you’re correct that ‘electronic noise’ on the analogue side rises the noise floor, but the discussion is about ‘electronic noise’ on the digital side which gives rise to jitter. It’s not a marketing jargon - the clocks are voltage sensitive components and ‘electronic noise’ can cause fluctuations in voltages in the circuit. Although tiny this can affect the quality of the square wave signal and therefore how the bits are interpreted....it can change the bits and timing.
@6:35 an oven controlled VCO is exactly what it says - it is temperature controlled to optimise clock waveform & jitter performance - it is NOT an “temperature controlled” crystal, that is voltage is still used to set the crystal into its designed resonant frequency, but temperature controlled conditions, stabilise & optimise the oscillator performance😀🤓
At first I also thought usb wouldn't matter, but I noticed an audible noise coming from the apple dongle on my laptop, specially when the fan was running louder and a cheap usb isolator from alliexpress was all it took to fix it in my case.
Well, I'll find out soon. I'm waiting for my Pi2AES Pro Shield to arrive. I'll tell you this much, the Topping DX7 Pro benefits from an op-amp upgrade. I installed a full set of SparkOS units, takes the unit up a few notches.
And the verdict is... We have a winner! I use my DX7Pro as a DAC-Pre straight into my amp. So my take is the Pi2AES on Rpi4 running Ropieee via I2S elevates the sound quality by a decent margin. Overall the sound is even more coherent, soundstage width and depth is wider and deeper, the sound has a bit more body to it if that makes any sense, bass is more detailed, everything seems a bit more detailed, you hear more into the finer details of the music, transients and such, better decay and layering of it in more complex passages. I'd be saying these things with the Pi2AES regarding the previous upgrade, but this brings out even more. I wasn't expecting that at all because I thought I was hitting limit with what I already had. Not bad for $350 (I bought a FLiRC dongle as well).
Dude, this is the third time in a row you make a video about the stuff that is on my mind the bigger part of the day. your now my favorite Tuber. And about MQA I got your back all the way. 2 years ago I also put a lot of time (for me) in the new sensation MQA and concluded, it's kind of scam, and your video, organized all my chaotic leftover memories about that subject, and now it is as clear as a FLAC file. Respect.
Just a question - "...the Schiit EITR is a very affordable device..." I assume you are aware that this product was discontinued about a year ago and is only available second hand? (where it commands a huge premium over the original MSRP). FWIW, the EITR was based on Schiit's older USB implementation (called Gen5) and the EITR was discontinued when Unison was introduced. Also, I agree that the Pi2AES is outstanding... I have 3 of them.
Eitrs sometimes pop up in Schitt's b-stock page for $99 plus shipping. Schiit discontinued Wyrd as well, so I guess you have a point unless someone wants to use spdif coax connection for older DACs like me.
Audiophiles: Measurements don't matter, all that matters is what you hear!! Also audiophiles: This device has a noise floor at -144 dB vs that other one that has it at -120 dB and costs 1/10, we know that it is a proven fact no human being can perceive the difference but just look at these GRAPHS!!!
In fact, any unwanted noise at -144db can still affect the sound quality when such frequencies are played, its still a delta to the "perfect" soundwave.
My thoughts exactly. There's no way in hell a human can hear a signal that is 120 dB lower than any other simultaneous sound (that is a millionth of a millionth of the energy in the main signal), even in the ideal condition when the main signal is a pure tone that does not overlap in frequency with the jitter-generated harmonics. Maybe a super low noise no-jitter-at-all DAC is useful in lab environments, but as a music consumer...
I recently added a Gustard U18 to convert USB to COAX between PC and DAC. The improvement is huge! I get an immersive 3D soundstage with relaxed and sweet sound. After that I tried direct USB connection once and couldn't bare with the "digital", dry, lean sound at all. Your explaination makes perfect sense, noise and jitter matter most between source and DAC. BTW even USB is not really bit-perfect, as USB audio uses isochronous protocol. Unlike bulk protocl, it doesn't have error correction.
Wouldn't mind seeing a video talking about power input with regards to audio equipment: the effect clean power has on equipment, usefulness of power conditioners and UPS's, and what to actually do if mains power isn't reliable with frequent brown-outs and general inconsistencies.
Like many of us i use my PC directly to my receiver amp ( Yamaha RX-A3070 with ESS pro chips ) via an HDMI cable connect to my graphic card.... HOW IS THE JITTER with this connection ?? Thank for the answer ( i hope )🙏
Outstanding review. Man, I wish you had a Denafrips DAC using the external clock function with the DDC for this round of review. I just ordered the Terminator-Plus DAC with the Gaia DDC and Kinki Studio EX-P7 with EX-B7's.
a phase-locked loop is literally necessary to keep multiple signals in sync, I don't think I understand how something is supposed to properly interpret a digital signal it's receiving without one, the clocks would keep going in and out of sync.
It sounds like some dacs would benefit a lot from a Pi2AES, where as others (the more expensive one's presumably) would benefit less if at all. I'd love to hear your recommendations for a good bang for buck combo with the Pi2AES if you end up doing a dedicated video on that device.
I do not often see videos which are pure and utter nonsense. But this one is. The spdif and the usb interfaces have error detection integrated. They will not deliver an invalid data stream to the DAC. Noise on a data line can cause problems but usually you recognize that by drops in the audio presentation or by connectivity rejection (no sound - full stop) and not by noise on the analogue side. Since the cable length and quality is good these days, you usually have however not problems or drops.
For us noobs, might I suggest you spare a few moments to explain you graphs better and how one is better versus the other? I kind of think I understood so thanks for the great effort and video!
Soooo I'm somewhat new to audio. My understanding of those graphs is the more lines you see randomly sticking out from a pack, the worse it is. At 13:50 you can see a line sticking up on the left graph towards the left of that graph, then just before the big spike, theres a bunch of bumpy lines sticking up from most of the other lines. Neither of those are in the right graph. Those things are the noise/jitter. (I COULD BE WRONG.)
I'm not into audio at all. Just came here from my recommendations. But I have done some electrical engineering. The plot has frequency on the x axis and loudness on the y axis. He's sending a 12kHz sounds wave across the line which causes the giant spike at 12k. Since it's supposed to be a pure 12k signal, everywhere else on the plot should technically be at negative infinity (no sound at all). A lot of the reason it isn't at negative infinity is because of random electrical noise or jitter. Jitter causes other frequencies to spike slightly because changing the timing between points in the wave changes the slope of the sound wave and thus the apparent frequency of that wave.
Can't the DAC store a few samples of information and convert to analogue by itself whenever required, without asking the source/pc for every sample? So that even if there is Jitter in collecting the data from pc, the DAC won't experience any Jitter because samples are readily available in Buffer. I want to know your opinion or answer for my query.
Great presentation. In my system, the subjective sound quality is noticeably impacted by jitter. Yes, lower jitter improves the sound stage, and also bass response. The biggest impact that matters to me is just the sense of natural sound. Glare is removed. That little tiring digital edge melts away. And everything sounds real. I believe great sound comes with micro detail from which we sense more than hear stuff that we equate with reality and emotion. So for me the sound of a DAC depends on: 1. the actual converter or chip, 2. Great power supplies for every consumer, 3. The output stage, and 4. The clock signal. Lots of people don't hear it. They may listen to music that really doesn't need to be well reproduced and the rest of their system could easily mask these micro details. But if you hear it, there is no turning back.
The pi2AES with I2s output is no longer available. The manufacturer now only offers I2s output with their $600 Mercury streamer. However, production has halted due to a supplier issue with the case manufacturer. According to the website, the PCB board for the Mercury may have to be fully reconfigured to fit another case. Translated, it might be quite some time before the Mercury Streamer is back in production. At this point, it looks like I'll be forced to look at other options for the foreseeable future.
Has anyone found how to stream all of PC audio to one of these? I heard Zeos in his review mention it was possible but I havent seen how people do it. TIA
I've been able to try internal Bluetooth with my Pi4, the quality and delay are quite terrible however. I also tried streaming with "Stream What You Hear" over the network, and while this uncompressed the audio up to a cap of CD Quality, it's still very badly delayed. Neither option was acceptable for videos of any kind. There may be other Linux-focused answers that highly technical users may be able to sort out, like using the Pi as a USB device or setting up the pi as a different kind of Linux audio server, but for a normal install of Moode I found none of the evident options worked very well. I'm halfway interested in coding my own solution to this problem, because the absurd delay doesn't make much sense to me. I get less delay sending packets to another continent than I get streaming the sound mixer's PCM output to a local Pi4 streamer with "Stream What You Hear", and that really shouldn't be the case. I'm just concerned I might be duplicating existent or better work since there hasn't been a ton of fruitful discussion on this and the Linux community tends to have answers to everything prefabbed and ready.
Very informative, thank you. I have always intuitively done my best to stay away from pc in my audio chain as ive always supected id have electrical noise and jitter issues. Having recently started mixing and recording on pc though, i'm in need of paying attention! I recently switched my hifi to a Naim Atom , so hopefully my dac is being supplied with an optimal signal!
Some DDCs will add delay yes. This isn't something I have tested for this video, but some DDCs will introduce a notable delay (particularly network streamers), and some will have none. Worth checking reviews/feedback on the DDC you're looking at. Some dacs also have this inherently. The denafrips dacs for example use very large buffers and this gives them a notable delay even without an external DDC
I use a GAIA DDC into my Chord Qutest. With 48k/24bit audio from my AppleTV, I've got no lip sync issues at all as opposed to running straight optical out from my TV. Latency will increase with sample rate, btw.
2 years later. I am now using a pi2aes 2.0, with a 850€ linear PSU that powers both the board and the Chord Qtest, with files stored on the SD card, optical out, with real glass cable, and music sounds more liquid, it has more shape somehow. I did a test: same setup, same files, external usb ssd storage vs internal storage on sd card, and turns out, it does sound a little bit better when there is no usb in the chain. Same dac, same input, same output on pi2aes, the only usb was the usb storage and impacted the music. I don’t know why, but from now on there will be no usb in my system
Hi I have purchased the Pi2aes , but with 24v switching power supply the sound is awful connected to my Denafrips Pontus 2 I2s port with high end hdmi cable using roon raat to Pi2aes., also tried BNC out with my £800 Chord Signature Super Aray digital bnc\bnc. Compared to my mac mini M1 with a £300 curious evolved usb lead connected to Pontus 2, it was not worth the purchase of Pi2aes as it is. You say you will be recording a follow-up video to build the Pi2aes and install your 5v power supply. What power supply did you use to power the Pi2aes via the 5v pins? I have managed to find out how you connected to the internal 5v pins via another source. Regards
I had the exact same experience but I am using the Allo USBridge Signature instead of an RPi4. I was thinking of getting a linear power supply like the Shanti but was warned about making modifications to the Pi2AES and powering it via a linear power supply. Anyone have any pointers as to how one can power both the PI2AES and USBridge using a Linear supply like the Shanti?
You should check out the Cherry 130dB+ DAC DAC 3, which will be introduced this summer! The coax/optical SPDIF input is internally reclocked for jitter immunity. Several levels of power supply reconditioning. True balanced, DC coupled outputs, too (:
Question about i^2s Guido Tent ones told me that i^2s is only for internal dac use not for longer distances. And i can understand that because clock signal should as short as possible especially digital clock signals.
I’m getting a KTE Holo May DAC. Do I need one of these DDCs? Also what if use a high end streamer like an innuous statement or antipodes k50 or Aurender w20se?
Not really no. The May's USB implementation I measured jitter at a -170dB floor with close in sidebands at -155dB. It's insane. I would just use USB with it
By the way I have a MOTU M2 as well and I sometimes use it as a DAC/Amp with my iPad PRO with my Hifiman Aryas, which need power. I didn’t think that the iPad would be able to power the M2 with Aryas but it can! :)
By the way have you noticed the May getting hot? I have seen reports that the power supply stays cool, but the DAC itself gets really hot. Have you experienced this yourself?
@@BrentLeVasseur there isn't a huge difference no. On other dacs there is, but the May's PLL system makes all digital inputs practically perfect. It's the most effective pll in any dac on the market currently. And yes it does get quite hot. Normally runs at about 38-40C. It's completely normal. It's r2r and with beefy class A output stages so it's to be expected
Why should the DAC ask the source for each and every sample? Can't the source send some number of samples and let the DAC store them for sometime before converting to analog waveform.
I use a Topping D10 as DDC for converting USB from a Mac to optical. Then I go via optical into the MScaler and then TT2 via dual BNC. My impression is that this sounds much better than going directly via USB from the Mac into the Mscaler. Now, you said optical from a PC is the worst one can do. Am I wrong about what I'm hearing or what is happening here?
Golden sound I'm sure you have explained more times than you care to remember so please from an American fan, what are those card or pictures on the wall I've been wanting to ask for a year or so. Thanks for the videos!
Another thought. I loved this video because "USB noise" was one of the topics I was wondering about and I was also among the ones thinking bits are bits in a digital signal and audible noise cannot be generated on a USB connection. And you almost convinced me when mentioning the audible noise from a PC. We all know that, that noise is with us since the 90's. You can hear the mouse movement, GPU working, etc. But then I realised it's a completely different scenario, that is with the PC's builtin soundcard and a direct (jack) connection to the speakers or headphones. As soon as you have an external USB sound device, noise is gone. So I'm afraid I'm still sceptic about USB noise :) (jitter is another thing I understand that)
Really interested to hear your thoughts on the May Holo. I ended up going with an Yggy GS for only like a 1/3 or so the price, along with a Pi2AES. I still wonder how it'd compare to the Holo. I guess one perk of the Yggy is that it's upgradable, and Schiit is already working on a new analog board for it. Looking forward to your review!
Would SATA & PCIE have more or less jitter noise than USB? I'm currently running 4x ASUS STXII's through a PCIE 4x riser kit, i'm also using a USB CD ROM but I'm considering a SATA one and shutting down the USB Ports...
Hi @GoldenSound! Great reviews, as always. But unfortunately looks like the Pi2AES project is no longer available and they have a closed and more expensive version. So, I was wondering, with the release of the new Topping M50 which is kind of a weak streamer, can it be used as a cheap USB to IIS converter? If so, could you measure that to see how clean the signal is? Thanks!!!
Just come across your interesting vid. Is the Innuos PhoenixUSB a type of DDC? It only has USB in/out connections, and seems to be extracted from their top-tier Statement server/streamer. I have one on loan, connected between my ZENith Mk.3 and Benchmark DAC3 B, and it makes a clearly audible improvement. But I'm now wondering if I should investigate a cheaper DDC, if it might work just as well...?
Two questions about the Pi2aes. 1- How does one change inputs on the Pi2aes? I think they all run continuously and have to be changed by hand. 2- How is the sound from an external/remote hard-drive into the Pi2aes via USB,,, then output to a DAC of choice? Thanks ahead for your help.
I've got a Pi2AES on the way, out of curiosity I was going to try the I2S to my Gustard X26 Pro, I was wondering if you could please tell me what cable you were using? when I googled a lot of the recommended cables were more expensive than my actual gear.
Am I correct in thinking the Pi2AES is only worth having if one has an I2S input on ones DAC? Or can you also perceive a difference over TOSLink? I’m wondering whether or not it might worth using over TOSLink with my ADI-2 Pro FS (instead of a direct USB 2.0 connection from my iMac)?
I currently have my music on a NAS sent to a Chromecast Audio and then optically to a Chord Mojo feeding my amp. Is the Chromecast and the optical cable introducing jitter? What would I be better doing?
Great video. But the giant question it leaves unanswered is whether the little no-ISB Pi device that beats the Hermes is uniquely good at destroying jitter, or whether *any* transport without USB (such as my MiniDSP SHD Studio) would yield similar benefits, simply from avoiding USB.
How did you connect your Hermes to your May via I2S? I have a Gaia and a May linked up by AES/EBU because none of the I2S pinouts on the May seem to match Denafrips' implementation.
What good is the Pi2AES with I2S if the max rate it supports is 192? And no DSD? Useless for me as a May owner using HQPlayer. The product is quite limited.
Thanks for the awesome video! I wish that at some point you'll be able to make a video about AoIP with devices that support Dante or Ravenna. I'm really interested to see if they can bring any noticeable improvement to the sound. I've been eyeing the Merging Anubis for quite some time now.
I switched from using my gaming pc as a roon endpoint to using an allo digione signature (similar to the pi2aes from my understanding). I wasn't hearing anything obvious via the usb audio on my pc but when I switched to the RPI allo streamer the signal sounded quieter and cleaner but it definitely wasn't a huge difference. Good video though I've been really enjoying all the content on this channel
Is there even a DAC with a good usb implementation? i mean, even the most expensive dacs are not suitable to play music from PC/laptops/smartphones. What is the purpouse of a product like Chord Mojo 2 if your laptop/cellphone is going to pass all the jitter through it?
Respect my avatar
no
@@lwwells Yes
I thought the MQA video was good then I watched this one! Bloody brilliant, science based explanation of how electrical interference has nothing to do with snake oil. As a direct result of this vid bought a usb galvanic isolator (the intona 7054), 2 decent usb cables (also sorted power supply end out too) and my god my setup has been improved to a new level! I will for sure sort patreon support! Great work
I’m so glad I have found this channel. Looking forward to the Hollow May review.
Excellent explanation on how clocks work with USB vs SPDIF. Thanks!
Dear Goldensound,
In this world where pure gold and sneak oil (EDIT : « snake ») are sometimes so difficult to tell apart, your reviews are really in a league on their own, thanks to your deep understanding, objective measurements, and explanation skills.
Very helpful.
Kudos ! And thank you so much.
It's just his accent
'sneak oil' is deadly stuff. Also Snake Oil!
@@zogzog1063
Edited. Thanks !
I’m so glad I have found this channel. Looking forward to the Holo May review.
This is your second video from your channel I have watched. You've earned yourself a new subscriber.
Wow, really enjoying this channel and the clear technical explanations. I'm glad to find out that my DAC has PLL for all SPDIF inputs, I was about to go researching a Pi2 AES!
The Pi2 is an amazing device.
This is super helpful. Also, I just bought a May because of you, gosh darnit. So thanks.
One of the best explained videos on the subject. Actually, probably the clear best.
I thought by now any reasonable DAC would have it's own internal elastic buffer and just internally re-clock using it's own precision clocks. Paul Lesso wrote an AES paper about S/PDIF design 15 years ago called "A High Performance S/PDIF Receiver". A small buffer chip should be super cheap these days, and should be able to wipe out any jitter from a PC optical port. I get the impression audiophiles like to make simple problems hard.
They want excuses to buy more stuff while still claiming it is "minimal chain".
Buffer = delay = bad, I guess?
@@sanjacobs6261 Delay is bad if you are watching a movie or trying to mix tunes as a DJ, cuz the audio will arrive too late.
But if you only listen, it doesnt matter if the audio comes out a second later then it got send.
@@Wassermelonenbaum and it wouldn't even be a second, a few milliseconds would be more than sufficient.
@@gayusschwulius8490 For reclocking you usually use atleast 2 flipflops. This means that it's atleast 2 cycles of a clock worth of delay. The clock in this case has the frequency of the bitclock which is usually 44.1k*16bit*2 = 1411200bit/s. Which corresponds to 0.7microseconds of delay PER flipflop.
I'd say delay typically becomes audible in live content at about 15-25ms. You could legit use a thousand flipflops and still not hear the delay.
6:40 for what it's worth an OCXO is still voltage-tuned (EFC) with a typical pulling range of something like 1-2e-7. The ovenized part is for short-term stability, not frequency adjustment. Essentially, quartz crystals have a characteristic curve of frequency change vs temperature change over temperature, which is very different for different "cuts" (the literal way the crystal is cut and polished). The standard is the AT cut, which is pretty much all quartz crystals you see everywhere. The AT cut crosses 0 Delta-Hz/Delta-K at around 25 °C. Which is just about perfect for normal ambient room temperatures. But the slope around that point is steep (relatively speaking, so let's say you're at 20 °C, you might be getting 5 ppm/K or so). Now the clever trick about OCXOs is that they use different cuts, often the SC cut. The SC cut has a completely different response to temperature changes; it crosses 0 at around 90 °C or so, and has a very gentle slope around this area. So OCXOs keep their crystal heated to a very _stable_ 85-95 °C, using a control loop. The attenuation of ambient temperature changes by the control loop colludes with the shallow slope of the dHz/dT to give extremely low tempcos.
The _expense_ of that is: SC cut crystals are much more expensive (tiny tiny tiny fraction of the market), OCXOs are a lot of hassle to build and even fast-stabilizing types will exhibit a pretty wild swing from turning on to becoming mildly stable (at least 15+ minutes), they have very high power consumption compared to normal oscillators (couple Watts steady-state vs. a few mW for a normal oscillator and maybe 50-100 mW for something fancy. (And some OCXOs tend to fail under repeated power cycling, like you'd do in a residential setting -- they're _absolutely not_ designed for that and _will not_ hold their specs when treated like that).
Most (all?) OCXOs have their own reference voltage which is typically ovenized as well. Sort of like bootstrapping, the reference has a tempco (selected for ~0 tempco at the elevated operating temperature, another reason these are expensive), so it would impact the temperature controller, so it's ovenized itself. It's of course stable, the tempcos of precision references are tiny to begin with.
Now the reason people went to this trouble is that for, mostly physical experiments, extremely accurate and stable clocks are a useful tool. A good OCXO achieves short-term stability better than 1e-12, that's one part per billion, or for the typical 10 MHz reference, that's less than 0.00001 Hz variation over a few seconds. (Jitter and stability are not the same thing). These are mechanically vibrating devices: Vibration creates low-level spurs. Most physical phenomena influence oscillator output, temperature is just a big one. Gravity is another; angling or rotating a quartz changes the frequency (much more than 1e-12). So for optimal performance you'd want to dampen vibrations of all frequencies. Sounds like something you could sell to audiophiles. Big fat granite rock on a bunch of thick steel rope springs.
Obviously, as you allude to at the end, the oscillator can't actually be used as a reference for anything (what's 10 MHz / 44.1 or 48 kHz?), so you're looking at a fractional-N PLL anyway, and at that point the quality of the output clock is liable to be swamped by the PLL's qualities (or lack thereof).
To be frank, a normal quartz is probably just dandy for audio, if the rest of the system design holds up. Audiophility seems to be especially liable to buzzword engineering instead of system-level engineering.
I only listen to suspended DACs on the top levels of skyscrapers that are heavy enough to stabilise the building in at least category 4 hurricanes.
OCXOs are fine and dandy, but frequency stability per se doesn't matter in audio, phase noise matters - OCXOs are for long term stability, phase noise is pulse-to-pulse stability, close but not related.
And even then it doesn't matter - a lowly jelly bean quartz crystal is like 4 or more orders of magnitude better than needed, you need to clock your DAC so badly, with jitter on the order of tens of nanoseconds for the artifacts to even arise from the noise floor, let alone be audible, but hey, audiophilistines know better and don't take anything more than femtoseconds.
I appreciate the actual graphs that prove what you're saying. I'm new to high-end audio, and for the most part I assume that the things that people tell me, like "this is better than this because this one costs 10x as much and it makes me feel good" is mostly subjective, but you've supplied receipts which actually puts weight behind your words.
Also: NONE of these people commenting here, nor the uploader has ever heard jitter in their lives. They do not conduct proper blind testing but just conclude things. Measurements do not lie but most people don't understand the decibel scale and the number in it. If it is below -100dB: do not bother, you will never be able to detect that in any real life scenario, yo can only catch it with measurements. In most cases we should not care what happens below -70dB but it is better to be safe and aim for a bit better than Redbook, 96dB dynamic range.
Thanks!
Danke!
Awesome channel by the way finally someone who can measure and has an open eye for the subjective part of this hobby.
Should be good when he does the blind test with ASR. He is going to pick different dacs out. Can’t wait !
Great video! Very informative and i learned something new
Thanks for the amazing review. Ethernet factor is huge, and it is ignored in many digital audio reviews. I did a $200 investment in my roon Server in the basement (6 core xeon with a noisy fan) and it changed the sound all over my house not only where I had the best roon endpoint ($4000 DYI).
This is a great video! I just purchased the iFi iPurifier SPDIF 2, and I really enjoy it. It makes the optical audio on my PC so much better in terms of quality, and music sounds amazing. I can even play my songs on Tidal at 192 KHz. I haven't noticed much on my Xbox One, but I still use it to prevent jitter.
I think these problems should have been solved in the DAC. The whole reason I am considering buying an external DAC is to get rid of electrical noise. Cue the "YOU HAD ONE JOB!" meme.
Considering that analog LPs are still considered to be the ultimate experience by many high-end enthusiasts, a 60db noise floor is not a problem and a 110db one even less.
@@dingdong2103 you’re misunderstanding the problem. The issue isn’t noise floor: it’s electronic noise and jitter which are a *completely* different thing.
@@GodfreyMann What is 'electronic noise' if not the thing that rises the noise floor? And jitter is not a practical problem in reality, it's just marketing jargon: hifigo.com/blogs/guide/what-is-digital-jitter-and-how-to-avoid-jitter-dac-101-part-3
@@GodfreyMann Vinyl has wow and flutter which are the analog equivalents of time domain modulation. You won't get rid of them by going analog.
@@dingdong2103 you’re correct that ‘electronic noise’ on the analogue side rises the noise floor, but the discussion is about ‘electronic noise’ on the digital side which gives rise to jitter. It’s not a marketing jargon - the clocks are voltage sensitive components and ‘electronic noise’ can cause fluctuations in voltages in the circuit. Although tiny this can affect the quality of the square wave signal and therefore how the bits are interpreted....it can change the bits and timing.
@6:35 an oven controlled VCO is exactly what it says - it is temperature controlled to optimise clock waveform & jitter performance - it is NOT an “temperature controlled” crystal, that is voltage is still used to set the crystal into its designed resonant frequency, but temperature controlled conditions, stabilise & optimise the oscillator performance😀🤓
It controls the temperature to increase long term stability. Jitter is short term deviation and thus won't be improved with OCXO's.
At first I also thought usb wouldn't matter, but I noticed an audible noise coming from the apple dongle on my laptop, specially when the fan was running louder and a cheap usb isolator from alliexpress was all it took to fix it in my case.
It'll be interesting to know if a mid-range DAC with an I2S input, like the Topping DX7 Pro, could benefit from all of this.
Well, I'll find out soon. I'm waiting for my Pi2AES Pro Shield to arrive. I'll tell you this much, the Topping DX7 Pro benefits from an op-amp upgrade. I installed a full set of SparkOS units, takes the unit up a few notches.
It helps a LOT on my Topping D70s!
And the verdict is... We have a winner! I use my DX7Pro as a DAC-Pre straight into my amp. So my take is the Pi2AES on Rpi4 running Ropieee via I2S elevates the sound quality by a decent margin. Overall the sound is even more coherent, soundstage width and depth is wider and deeper, the sound has a bit more body to it if that makes any sense, bass is more detailed, everything seems a bit more detailed, you hear more into the finer details of the music, transients and such, better decay and layering of it in more complex passages. I'd be saying these things with the Pi2AES regarding the previous upgrade, but this brings out even more. I wasn't expecting that at all because I thought I was hitting limit with what I already had. Not bad for $350 (I bought a FLiRC dongle as well).
Would you recomment using Denafrips HERMES with RME adi 2 pro FS, will it make a difference ? THANKS
Dude, this is the third time in a row you make a video about the stuff that is on my mind the bigger part of the day. your now my favorite Tuber. And about MQA I got your back all the way. 2 years ago I also put a lot of time (for me) in the new sensation MQA and concluded, it's kind of scam, and your video, organized all my chaotic leftover memories about that subject, and now it is as clear as a FLAC file. Respect.
Just a question - "...the Schiit EITR is a very affordable device..." I assume you are aware that this product was discontinued about a year ago and is only available second hand? (where it commands a huge premium over the original MSRP). FWIW, the EITR was based on Schiit's older USB implementation (called Gen5) and the EITR was discontinued when Unison was introduced. Also, I agree that the Pi2AES is outstanding... I have 3 of them.
Pretty amusing to hear tho
Eitrs sometimes pop up in Schitt's b-stock page for $99 plus shipping. Schiit discontinued Wyrd as well, so I guess you have a point unless someone wants to use spdif coax connection for older DACs like me.
Audiophiles: Measurements don't matter, all that matters is what you hear!!
Also audiophiles: This device has a noise floor at -144 dB vs that other one that has it at -120 dB and costs 1/10, we know that it is a proven fact no human being can perceive the difference but just look at these GRAPHS!!!
In fact, any unwanted noise at -144db can still affect the sound quality when such frequencies are played, its still a delta to the "perfect" soundwave.
@@harrison00xXx of course it will affect the sound. But you will not hear the difference because you are not Superman
Nissim Trifonov ok thats also a legit argument
That's us, yes!
My thoughts exactly. There's no way in hell a human can hear a signal that is 120 dB lower than any other simultaneous sound (that is a millionth of a millionth of the energy in the main signal), even in the ideal condition when the main signal is a pure tone that does not overlap in frequency with the jitter-generated harmonics. Maybe a super low noise no-jitter-at-all DAC is useful in lab environments, but as a music consumer...
I would love to see a video just flat out on time domain vs frequency domain and what each is used to look at
I recently added a Gustard U18 to convert USB to COAX between PC and DAC. The improvement is huge! I get an immersive 3D soundstage with relaxed and sweet sound. After that I tried direct USB connection once and couldn't bare with the "digital", dry, lean sound at all.
Your explaination makes perfect sense, noise and jitter matter most between source and DAC.
BTW even USB is not really bit-perfect, as USB audio uses isochronous protocol. Unlike bulk protocl, it doesn't have error correction.
So what about Pi2AES SPDIF to hermes and converted to I2s, would it be even better?
Wouldn't mind seeing a video talking about power input with regards to audio equipment: the effect clean power has on equipment, usefulness of power conditioners and UPS's, and what to actually do if mains power isn't reliable with frequent brown-outs and general inconsistencies.
Like many of us i use my PC directly to my receiver amp ( Yamaha RX-A3070 with ESS pro chips ) via an HDMI cable connect to my graphic card.... HOW IS THE JITTER with this connection ?? Thank for the answer ( i hope )🙏
So many thanks for pi2aes. This seems to be a real diamond.
Outstanding review. Man, I wish you had a Denafrips DAC using the external clock function with the DDC for this round of review. I just ordered the Terminator-Plus DAC with the Gaia DDC and Kinki Studio EX-P7 with EX-B7's.
Why? NONE of these things are audible.
@@squidcaps4308 if you cant here a class A amp then you must be deaf
this was extremely enlightening and informative
Fantastic informative video
Very nicely done. Thank you very much 😎👍
a phase-locked loop is literally necessary to keep multiple signals in sync, I don't think I understand how something is supposed to properly interpret a digital signal it's receiving without one, the clocks would keep going in and out of sync.
It sounds like some dacs would benefit a lot from a Pi2AES, where as others (the more expensive one's presumably) would benefit less if at all. I'd love to hear your recommendations for a good bang for buck combo with the Pi2AES if you end up doing a dedicated video on that device.
Excellent explanation
I do not often see videos which are pure and utter nonsense. But this one is. The spdif and the usb interfaces have error detection integrated. They will not deliver an invalid data stream to the DAC. Noise on a data line can cause problems but usually you recognize that by drops in the audio presentation or by connectivity rejection (no sound - full stop) and not by noise on the analogue side. Since the cable length and quality is good these days, you usually have however not problems or drops.
For us noobs, might I suggest you spare a few moments to explain you graphs better and how one is better versus the other? I kind of think I understood so thanks for the great effort and video!
Soooo I'm somewhat new to audio. My understanding of those graphs is the more lines you see randomly sticking out from a pack, the worse it is. At 13:50 you can see a line sticking up on the left graph towards the left of that graph, then just before the big spike, theres a bunch of bumpy lines sticking up from most of the other lines. Neither of those are in the right graph. Those things are the noise/jitter.
(I COULD BE WRONG.)
I'm not into audio at all. Just came here from my recommendations. But I have done some electrical engineering. The plot has frequency on the x axis and loudness on the y axis. He's sending a 12kHz sounds wave across the line which causes the giant spike at 12k. Since it's supposed to be a pure 12k signal, everywhere else on the plot should technically be at negative infinity (no sound at all). A lot of the reason it isn't at negative infinity is because of random electrical noise or jitter. Jitter causes other frequencies to spike slightly because changing the timing between points in the wave changes the slope of the sound wave and thus the apparent frequency of that wave.
@@keco185you should make a video about jitter not golden sound.
Hi..appreciate if you can make Pi2AES assemble video and software installation needed to be used via smartphone
Yes can you do a session on the Pi2AES
Can't the DAC store a few samples of information and convert to analogue by itself whenever required, without asking the source/pc for every sample?
So that even if there is Jitter in collecting the data from pc, the DAC won't experience any Jitter because samples are readily available in Buffer.
I want to know your opinion or answer for my query.
Great presentation. In my system, the subjective sound quality is noticeably impacted by jitter. Yes, lower jitter improves the sound stage, and also bass response. The biggest impact that matters to me is just the sense of natural sound. Glare is removed. That little tiring digital edge melts away. And everything sounds real. I believe great sound comes with micro detail from which we sense more than hear stuff that we equate with reality and emotion.
So for me the sound of a DAC depends on:
1. the actual converter or chip,
2. Great power supplies for every consumer,
3. The output stage, and
4. The clock signal.
Lots of people don't hear it. They may listen to music that really doesn't need to be well reproduced and the rest of their system could easily mask these micro details. But if you hear it, there is no turning back.
5:00 Can You make a video how to setup raspi? Is the sound over hdmi good? How to send I2S over it.
Where is the graph of a straight USB connection to the May (with a cheap cable)? That should be graph #1 in your "story".
That would just prove all the other shit is completely redundant and that's not in HIS interest
We need a hidden camera inside Schiit HQ when they are naming their products. They know.
I burst out laughing when he said the Shit Eater 🤣
Honest question: The jitter graphs at 7:30 - how can I tell one graph looks much better?
Right graph is better as the spikes are less either side of the signal.
Those spikes are called side bands btw.
The pi2AES with I2s output is no longer available. The manufacturer now only offers I2s output with their $600 Mercury streamer. However, production has halted due to a supplier issue with the case manufacturer. According to the website, the PCB board for the Mercury may have to be fully reconfigured to fit another case. Translated, it might be quite some time before the Mercury Streamer is back in production. At this point, it looks like I'll be forced to look at other options for the foreseeable future.
Has anyone found how to stream all of PC audio to one of these? I heard Zeos in his review mention it was possible but I havent seen how people do it.
TIA
I've been able to try internal Bluetooth with my Pi4, the quality and delay are quite terrible however. I also tried streaming with "Stream What You Hear" over the network, and while this uncompressed the audio up to a cap of CD Quality, it's still very badly delayed. Neither option was acceptable for videos of any kind. There may be other Linux-focused answers that highly technical users may be able to sort out, like using the Pi as a USB device or setting up the pi as a different kind of Linux audio server, but for a normal install of Moode I found none of the evident options worked very well.
I'm halfway interested in coding my own solution to this problem, because the absurd delay doesn't make much sense to me. I get less delay sending packets to another continent than I get streaming the sound mixer's PCM output to a local Pi4 streamer with "Stream What You Hear", and that really shouldn't be the case. I'm just concerned I might be duplicating existent or better work since there hasn't been a ton of fruitful discussion on this and the Linux community tends to have answers to everything prefabbed and ready.
Very informative, thank you.
I have always intuitively done my best to stay away from pc in my audio chain as ive always supected id have electrical noise and jitter issues. Having recently started mixing and recording on pc though, i'm in need of paying attention!
I recently switched my hifi to a Naim Atom , so hopefully my dac is being supplied with an optimal signal!
Would it be possible to expand this discussion and include the Allo DigiOne Signature in the comparison?
do any of the ddc's add any audio delay, ex if you want to watch videos?
Some DDCs will add delay yes. This isn't something I have tested for this video, but some DDCs will introduce a notable delay (particularly network streamers), and some will have none.
Worth checking reviews/feedback on the DDC you're looking at. Some dacs also have this inherently.
The denafrips dacs for example use very large buffers and this gives them a notable delay even without an external DDC
I use a GAIA DDC into my Chord Qutest. With 48k/24bit audio from my AppleTV, I've got no lip sync issues at all as opposed to running straight optical out from my TV. Latency will increase with sample rate, btw.
Thanks for this video and for the tip my curiosity gauge is right up there.
may be its better just to use DAC with connected external master clock? for example TEAC Ud-505 and CG-10M?
What about jitter from a plasma TV (With Chromecast input) optical output to a outboard DAC ? For streaming TIDAL or watch in Movies ?
2 years later. I am now using a pi2aes 2.0, with a 850€ linear PSU that powers both the board and the Chord Qtest, with files stored on the SD card, optical out, with real glass cable, and music sounds more liquid, it has more shape somehow.
I did a test: same setup, same files, external usb ssd storage vs internal storage on sd card, and turns out, it does sound a little bit better when there is no usb in the chain. Same dac, same input, same output on pi2aes, the only usb was the usb storage and impacted the music. I don’t know why, but from now on there will be no usb in my system
Hi I have purchased the Pi2aes , but with 24v switching power supply the sound is awful connected to my Denafrips Pontus 2 I2s port with high end hdmi cable using roon raat to Pi2aes., also tried BNC out with my £800 Chord Signature Super Aray digital bnc\bnc.
Compared to my mac mini M1 with a £300 curious evolved usb lead connected to Pontus 2, it was not worth the purchase of Pi2aes as it is. You say you will be recording a follow-up video to build the Pi2aes and install your 5v power supply. What power supply did you use to power the Pi2aes via the 5v pins? I have managed to find out how you connected to the internal 5v pins via another source. Regards
I had the exact same experience but I am using the Allo USBridge Signature instead of an RPi4. I was thinking of getting a linear power supply like the Shanti but was warned about making modifications to the Pi2AES and powering it via a linear power supply. Anyone have any pointers as to how one can power both the PI2AES and USBridge using a Linear supply like the Shanti?
What are the reasons to use? USB is for higher bitrate DSD files, DSD, 128, 256 and 5. 12 only plays through USB on my DAC I. Squared s only DSD 64
You mentioned an upcoming SoTM SMS200 Ultra video? Any time soon?????
You should check out the Cherry 130dB+ DAC DAC 3, which will be introduced this summer! The coax/optical SPDIF input is internally reclocked for jitter immunity. Several levels of power supply reconditioning. True balanced, DC coupled outputs, too (:
Fun fact, a 10MHz reference clock is also used for things like phase syncing lab equipment.
Question about i^2s Guido Tent ones told me that i^2s is only for internal dac use not for longer distances. And i can understand that because clock signal should as short as possible especially digital clock signals.
I have ordered a Pi2AES, but realized that it doesn't decode DSD, PCM only. Any Pi Hats you recommend that decode native DSD [or DoP]? Cheers!
is it not acceptable for you to transcode to hi-res PCM? Like 352/384kHz
I’m getting a KTE Holo May DAC. Do I need one of these DDCs? Also what if use a high end streamer like an innuous statement or antipodes k50 or Aurender w20se?
Not really no. The May's USB implementation I measured jitter at a -170dB floor with close in sidebands at -155dB. It's insane.
I would just use USB with it
@@GoldenSound Thanks buddy! And is there a huge difference between USB and i2s on the May?
By the way I have a MOTU M2 as well and I sometimes use it as a DAC/Amp with my iPad PRO with my Hifiman Aryas, which need power. I didn’t think that the iPad would be able to power the M2 with Aryas but it can! :)
By the way have you noticed the May getting hot? I have seen reports that the power supply stays cool, but the DAC itself gets really hot. Have you experienced this yourself?
@@BrentLeVasseur there isn't a huge difference no. On other dacs there is, but the May's PLL system makes all digital inputs practically perfect. It's the most effective pll in any dac on the market currently.
And yes it does get quite hot. Normally runs at about 38-40C. It's completely normal. It's r2r and with beefy class A output stages so it's to be expected
Why should the DAC ask the source for each and every sample?
Can't the source send some number of samples and let the DAC store them for sometime before converting to analog waveform.
3:03 how, this shouldn't even be possible.
I have motu m4 and a 3070 ti i can run a stress test on gpu, dac is dead silent with my iems.
I use a Topping D10 as DDC for converting USB from a Mac to optical. Then I go via optical into the MScaler and then TT2 via dual BNC. My impression is that this sounds much better than going directly via USB from the Mac into the Mscaler. Now, you said optical from a PC is the worst one can do. Am I wrong about what I'm hearing or what is happening here?
Golden sound I'm sure you have explained more times than you care to remember so please from an American fan, what are those card or pictures on the wall I've been wanting to ask for a year or so. Thanks for the videos!
Another thought. I loved this video because "USB noise" was one of the topics I was wondering about and I was also among the ones thinking bits are bits in a digital signal and audible noise cannot be generated on a USB connection. And you almost convinced me when mentioning the audible noise from a PC. We all know that, that noise is with us since the 90's. You can hear the mouse movement, GPU working, etc. But then I realised it's a completely different scenario, that is with the PC's builtin soundcard and a direct (jack) connection to the speakers or headphones. As soon as you have an external USB sound device, noise is gone. So I'm afraid I'm still sceptic about USB noise :) (jitter is another thing I understand that)
Hey you mentioned you’d do a video on how to make the conversion from the 24v power port to accept a 5v, will you still be doing that?
Would be interested as well. When will you do this vid?
I second this mod!
Really interested to hear your thoughts on the May Holo. I ended up going with an Yggy GS for only like a 1/3 or so the price, along with a Pi2AES. I still wonder how it'd compare to the Holo. I guess one perk of the Yggy is that it's upgradable, and Schiit is already working on a new analog board for it.
Looking forward to your review!
Can't find the PIAAES anywhere for sale except one place for $500?
I-Squared-S is not something I have heard of before. The connector looks like an HDMI?
Would SATA & PCIE have more or less jitter noise than USB?
I'm currently running 4x ASUS STXII's through a PCIE 4x riser kit, i'm also using a USB CD ROM but I'm considering a SATA one and shutting down the USB Ports...
Just got a Denafrips Hermes and when I feed it a USB signal, it does not output to my DAC.
I have a Mac so no need for a driver.
Any suggestions?
T, The SMSL DO200 is a dream to own. Best, D.
Hi @GoldenSound! Great reviews, as always. But unfortunately looks like the Pi2AES project is no longer available and they have a closed and more expensive version. So, I was wondering, with the release of the new Topping M50 which is kind of a weak streamer, can it be used as a cheap USB to IIS converter? If so, could you measure that to see how clean the signal is? Thanks!!!
Hi, is the Denafrips Iris same as Hermes when it comes to jitter at the output? Thanks!
Hi there, I’m looking for a DDC to pair with my (Denatrips Pontus 15). with my (WIIM Pro streamer) any recommendation please?
Just come across your interesting vid. Is the Innuos PhoenixUSB a type of DDC? It only has USB in/out connections, and seems to be extracted from their top-tier Statement server/streamer. I have one on loan, connected between my ZENith Mk.3 and Benchmark DAC3 B, and it makes a clearly audible improvement. But I'm now wondering if I should investigate a cheaper DDC, if it might work just as well...?
It is. A Gaia would be at least as good, AND about half the price.
Two questions about the Pi2aes.
1- How does one change inputs on the Pi2aes? I think they all run continuously and have to be changed by hand.
2- How is the sound from an external/remote hard-drive into the Pi2aes via USB,,, then output to a DAC of choice? Thanks ahead for your help.
I've got a Pi2AES on the way, out of curiosity I was going to try the I2S to my Gustard X26 Pro, I was wondering if you could please tell me what cable you were using? when I googled a lot of the recommended cables were more expensive than my actual gear.
Am I correct in thinking the Pi2AES is only worth having if one has an I2S input on ones DAC? Or can you also perceive a difference over TOSLink?
I’m wondering whether or not it might worth using over TOSLink with my ADI-2 Pro FS (instead of a direct USB 2.0 connection from my iMac)?
I currently have my music on a NAS sent to a Chromecast Audio and then optically to a Chord Mojo feeding my amp. Is the Chromecast and the optical cable introducing jitter? What would I be better doing?
Not worrying about jitter. It was solved years ago.
@@r423fplip not true. There are still measurable levels in the majority of DACs.
Thanks for this review.
Great video. But the giant question it leaves unanswered is whether the little no-ISB Pi device that beats the Hermes is uniquely good at destroying jitter, or whether *any* transport without USB (such as my MiniDSP SHD Studio) would yield similar benefits, simply from avoiding USB.
How did you connect your Hermes to your May via I2S? I have a Gaia and a May linked up by AES/EBU because none of the I2S pinouts on the May seem to match Denafrips' implementation.
What good is the Pi2AES with I2S if the max rate it supports is 192? And no DSD? Useless for me as a May owner using HQPlayer. The product is quite limited.
Thanks for the awesome video! I wish that at some point you'll be able to make a video about AoIP with devices that support Dante or Ravenna. I'm really interested to see if they can bring any noticeable improvement to the sound. I've been eyeing the Merging Anubis for quite some time now.
What power supply did you use this with? And what can you use out the box? I think linear pPSU would be needed isn't it?
I switched from using my gaming pc as a roon endpoint to using an allo digione signature (similar to the pi2aes from my understanding). I wasn't hearing anything obvious via the usb audio on my pc but when I switched to the RPI allo streamer the signal sounded quieter and cleaner but it definitely wasn't a huge difference. Good video though I've been really enjoying all the content on this channel
Same here. its not a huge difference but its enough for me to appreciate the digione.
WHAT! A SHITT EATER! Sorry, I had to do it! You knew it was coming. Thank you for all your AMAZING REVIEWS!!!
Is there even a DAC with a good usb implementation? i mean, even the most expensive dacs are not suitable to play music from PC/laptops/smartphones. What is the purpouse of a product like Chord Mojo 2 if your laptop/cellphone is going to pass all the jitter through it?
I have an excellent source, auralic Aries g1 connected via aes to a Holo spring kte3.. I'm wondering if adding a ddc to use i2s would be a benefit?
Designing PLL is an art...and this is the -secret- to proper digital audio reproduction.
What's your thought on Allo Digi Signature Vs Pi2AES ...
Are you still planning to make a video about making a Pi2AES? They are no longer available from Pi2 Design.
SoTM SMS200 Ultra, where is the review, please.