I've been trying to make Anhelo work for a long time and I was enlightened by this video. But unfortunately, while the analysis and theory make sense, playing a list like this didn't work like expected. The biggest issue I saw in my games is that you usually only cast 1 spell per round since you ramp so little and every spell is expensive. This means that if the spell you cast each round doesn't generate a lot of advantage for you, someone is going to run faster and win because you're board presence is not a threat and you're tapped most of the time. Also, by casting one spell each round, cards like Cathartic Reunion totally floods us. Drawing 6 cards while having 4 after discarding 2 cards means we are discarding 3 more. I prefer more controlling decks usually and Anhelo can copy the first spell each turn. So the best way to optimize him is to play one spell in every turn of the round. That requires a lot of mana and a lot of bodies to sacrifice. So mana rocks, lowering the curve, replacing more sorceries for instants and some of the token generators are going to help us to achieve this goal. How do you feel about this approach?
Ive revamped my anhelo deck a few times, including over the last couple of days which brought me to your video. Ive came to a lot of the same conclusions as you (most token makers suck, no poison etc) but we disagree on where to curve out with Anhelo. For me, im not curving anhelo on 3, its too powerful if left alive and is often killed on sight. Curving anhelo on turn 4 or 5 allows us to protect him with the best type of countermagic this deck can play imo, phasing/broughtback spells; march of swirling mist, slip out the back, reality ripple, teferi's time twist, malakir rebirth and fake your own death. Unlike counterspell or negate, they can be used proactively if necessary and benefit from being copied (copying a counterspell does nothing like 99% of the time). Curving anhelo on turn 4 or 5 also makes the 3 drop token makers much more appealing, especially if like me, you are planning on getting max value from anhelo and copying spells up to 4 times per turn cycle. Poppet Stitcher/Baral and Kari Zev are the cream of the crop here since they will give us the tokens we need on our opponents turns as well. We get max value by copying on our opponents turns by playing as many free-to-cast or generates-treasure instants as possible; flick a coin, snap, pile on, meeting of minds, lethal scheme, big score, unexpected windfall, frantic search, snapback, snuff out and deadly rollick (the last two are not so budget friendly). And the last fundamental difference between our lists is stealing threats, which is my preferred route to victory over more spikey win conditions like extra turns or torment of hailfire. Playing cards like Callous Oppressor, Helm of Possession and vedalken shackles give us an additional stream of sacrifice fodder as well as provide us with threats. Round out with similar but copyable spells like New Blood, Ritual of the machine, confiscation coup and Blatant Thievery as powerful 4 for 1s or better that can easily carry you to a win. But we agree on cards like revenge of the drowned, honor the god-Pharoah, rotten reunion etc. I really like these types of cards in this list, I even play Startle and Release the Gremlins. Apologies for the long winded post, I just really like Anhelo and yours is the first take ive seen with some views similar to mine so i thought id share my thoughts.
Holy shit, I love your take and have come to similar conclusions. You got a list somewhere? I've tweaked mine with a couple playtests but it's not quite there yet
@@warrentang7459 I don't have a list I'm content with at the moment; I keep jumping between the version I described here and a cEDH version that tries to copy Dark Petition or Beseech the Mirror into combo lines. I also have something in-between the combo list and the casual list that is a Storm list revolving around Mizzix's Mastery and Temporal Fissure. But I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.
@@warrentang7459 I think the 3 mana token generators are playable including Black Market Connections. The only 4 mana or more token generator that is worth looking at is cryptic pursuit; it doesn't die to creature removal and it's also a card advantage engine. I don't run it personally, but it's almost there.
@@warrentang7459I do agree because they generally take up a turn cycle. Plus your ideal situation is casting and copying the 4+ cmc spells. You generally won’t be able to do that and play a 4 drop creature on the same turn. Then the entire situation you only get one 2/2 token? That’s kind of underwhelming. If you ran cantrips or more 1 drops it makes sense but double 1 drop spells are not Anhelo strengths here
nice vid and I got a lot of inspiration from here. I made my anhelo deck with primary focus on drawing, some control, and stocking up treasures with cards like unexpected windfall then do 11 mana crackle with power + casualty which will deal 30 damage to each opponents, my pod was still pretty casual and we shy away from infinites when I could pull this off but now dualcaster and ral combo seems like the most sensible wincon, seeing ral can also work with reverberate/expand + casualty
I looked at double vision as a huge waste of a turn for a while, but then I realized it's just the almost objectively better card to cast if anhelo died and got sent back to the command zone, since it's the same mana value (or less) for a harder to remove permanent
awesome analysis, but with all the generated value i’d like to see some efficient finishers in the 100 to really use the early curve and tempo advantage to close out the game
In my deck I tend to finish the game around turn 6-9 with copied rituals and crackle with power or copying Tasha's hideous laughter to remove my opponents entire library
How are you doing with the closer so far? My fav currently are aminatou's augury, such an insane value when cast and even more so if copied. there's also blatant thievery and the crowds fav expropriate.
Interesting vid. I love Anhelo but a lot of cards I put in seem to slow down like Magnus and Deekah. It's tough because this commander seems to make your deck Convoluted. You need bodies to make the deck work.
Agreed. I will say that if there is a token maker you could throw in, it'd be Baral and Kari Zev from MoM, though I still don't have a high opinion of it for the same reasons as Poppet Stitcher, etc. (Though of all the token makers mentioned, poppet stitcher is the best)
I so highly agree about a lot of these, I can't think of a single game where Metallurgic Summonings was anything but a totally useless card in my hand. I will slightly disagree about Army of the Damned, it is by far my most common way I've won games.
I have been researching a lot of the new Capenna commanders recently because it’s my favorite set. I love the roaring 20s as a whole so this set calls out to me. I have a spellslinger deck in veyran so looking into new twists like this intrigue me as well. I’ll watch again and review your list to get an idea. Have you done other commanders from this set. Also I’m very impressed at your opener with the moving card art. Well done.
Thanks for watching! Ten billion percent with you on the roaring 20s 😍 This set pulled me back in to magic after a break and I love it. Can't wait to return. I haven't yet done any other full decks from this set, but there's half a Falco Spara deck here: th-cam.com/video/Q1p77UPaRKA/w-d-xo.html Thanks for watching!
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 I’ll check out Falco for sure. I’m curious to see what you think about the other brokers commanders. Kros with his goad counter shenanigans and denry klin seems like a cracked commander to build.
$37.50 bruh isnt hatred almost that much just by itself? I really wanna try a very similar iteration of this but I'm grappling with a lot of painful cuts.
I usually keep the budget under 200 with decks but that being said you can fit a lot within those parameters. Time Warp Temporal Manipulation Walk the Aeons Time Stretch Then you can play mystic retrieval and maestros confluence. Paired with a magecraft token generator you proceed to take a very rube goldbergy infinite turns and kill the table with tokens generated on your extra turns. I sort of disagree with the sentiment that you’re wasting a turn putting bodies on the field. Sometimes your commander isn’t really in the picture bc theres 4 players worth of removal so having secondary haymaker type creatures ensures you dont just lose to a few well times removal cards.
Great video! I love Anhelo, but havent found the right deck for him yet. Most decktechs rely on Tokenengines like talrand and a lot of instants to copy spells on each turn (also on your opponents turns). That seems like a lot of setup and a high budget deck if you want to include cards like "deekah" and "shark typhoon". I like your approach to cast cheap creatures with utility and start copying on turn 4, but your spells have to make a big impact because you often cast a creature to get the copy of your spell. For example: A "dire Fleet hoarder" into "grim bounty" is 2 cards and 6 mana for 2 removals and 2 treasures. Thats worse than casting 2 2mana removal instants which you can use without setup, at instant speed and indivually. I dont like some rituals either. These work great in lists with tokenengines because you essentially pay nothing for them. With your approach you still have to cast creature spells to copy them, which makes this chaining of rituals just a waste of honest casted creatures.
It's also possible that the cards needed to make Anhelo truly great simply don't exist yet. But let me elaborate. I'm still confident in my assessments and reasoning for excluding those token makers- the timing is clumsy and they're creatures that aren't copyable spells. Moreover, not only would you be taking a turn off of casting an instant/sorc to cast these token makers, but because so many of them trigger when you cast the spell, and Anhelo only copies the *first* instant or sorc each turn, you actually have to take *two* turns off of making copies in order to make tokens. That's all just true, and these cards should keep a healthy distance from this deck. But you also make an important observation- jumping through all these hoops isn't always very efficient. When we copy the spells in an Anhelo deck, trading a body in for an extra copy of a spell, one way to fix this efficiency is to come out ahead on mana- we only get one copy per turn, so copying a 4, 5, or 6 mana spell gives us that much mana back in value when we copy it. If the sacrificed creature costs 1-2 mana, then you come out ahead on mana- not to mention whatever value that creature provides when it dies- giving these spells the additional utility of acting as a sac outlet. And trading a creature card for a copy of a spell makes you break even on cards. Ideally, what you'd want is for the spells that you're copying to chain you into more creatures while providing their value. We see this in cards like Honor the God Pharaoh, Flip the Switch, etc, and it's why I'm expecting to find more cards for Anhelo in the Lord of the Rings set coming out with the return of the Amass mechanic. Stay tuned for more on that. In the specific case you mention, Grim Bounty, think of the math like this: it's two 3-mana spells that each say "kill a creature and make a treasure token." While many commander pods might always choose 2 mana removal over 3 mana removal, there's a lot of wiggle room when it comes to spells that supply extra value on top of it (see Finishing Move in the wilson deck), and personally, I think such a spell would be a great card, *especially in a deck without much ramp* though Deadly Derision from the new March of the machine set would be an upgrade as it's an instant.
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 Thank you for the elaborate awnser! I fully understand your reasoning to exclude the tokenengines. I tried to build my own deck without them aswell and its the reason i got so interested in your video/deck. Token creating instant/sorceries are perfect for this, but there arent many of them. Honor of the God Pharaoh is pretty clever. I guess many people overlook it because it doesnt make a 2/2 until you copy it, but its pretty good. Unfortuntaly the other amass cards we got yet dont benefit to much from copying, but LOTR maybe brings some more. Another card you got consider is "startle". I think we disagree on some cards in your decklist, but thats totally fine i guess :) I just wanted to mention two cards: First memory deluge cant be copied because you dont CAST the copy and so X would be 0. Maybe "Fact or Fiction" or "Meeting of minds" would be a better fit. The second card are the bounce lands. I really like these cards as they are great fixing and card advantage for budget decks. You radically cut all cards that dont fit in your curve to start copying on turn 4 though. With a bounceland thats only possible with a 1-drop on turn one or two which you only have 2 of in the whole deck. Path of Ancestry, the reveal lands or the pain lands would suit your strategy better imo.
Thanks for the tip! Normally I wouldn't have considered any two-mana cards for the value reasons mentioned in my first reply but I think I actually like Startle because of how much it's doing. - You're right about Memory Deluge though. Normally, Copied spells copy all characteristics of the original when on the stack, including the mana paid for them. This is why copying kicked spells and x-spells still works, but because it specifically says "cast," it doesn't apply here. Good catch. I've updated the description with this correction. I'll probably swap it out for startle 😂 - The bounce lands are a neat piece of tech actually: you're not meant to play them turns 1-5, so if one is in your opening hand, don't count it as a land. Any turn after that though, these lands act like a free Cultivate- get a land in play and make your next land drop, and in Grixis colors, that's valuable (especially since we don't really play any ramp). Though you're right that the pain lands would be a welcome addition.
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 I would think of "startle" more as one of your 2mana creatures to sacrifice. Its similar to guildsworn prowler, but you can copy it later for extra value. You explainined the memory deluge interaction better than me, sorry about that. I found out about it while playing on Arena, otherwise i would have probably overlooked it too 😅
I tried the build, but I became the threat early on, and I ate most of my opponents' interactions. It became an uphill battle and might need to slot in some protection spells so I can deal with removal. I was hoping I can get some suggestions on what to use?
This is one of the few decks I'm planning on revisiting in the future, so I'll be able to more completely address some changes regarding that then. But in the meantime, my top pick for protection is Izzet Charm. It can protect when you need it, and be either removal or casualtied Card selection when you don't. Depending on your budget, you might also try - Insidious Will - Return the Favor - Slip Out the Back - An Offer You Cant Refuse - Arcane Denial - Fierce Guardianship
Very interesting deck deck. Lacking a few finishers tho, i reckon. Have you tried it in a game? How has it fared? Also, can you do some upgrades to bring it to a higher lvl?
Thanks for watching! Right now, the biggest finishers I could justify were the ones mentioned in the Endgame section. Hatred can K.O. a player for 5 mana and the combos and damage dealers are increasingly reliable thanks to the high-efficiency card draw, and I've been really happy with it so far. However, if I could wish for a card, or if anyone knows something I don't, it would be: - an instant or sorcery that - will cost 7 or less mana that - will win when copied and *does not* - have 3 or more of the same pip in its mana cost, or - take extra turns
Nobody knows how to build that cursed commander. XD. It's just painfully clunky to pilot in all forms. It's sad too because it is an interesting idea. I feel this should have been in Naya or Temur instead. And yes, I share some sentiment with the common cards in the builds. I love Grixis a lot, and I want something flavorful aside from the same exact deck but different commander in any other high level list. Can't figure out anything and it frustrates me so darn much. I appreciate this insight. I wonder if I could slip in some Nicol Bolas things in this list.
@@fulgerion I've built this commander every which way and twice the other way. You have to purposely water it down otherwise it's too powerful for casual and too weak for CEDH. After about a dozen major iterations, the "correct" way to build it, in my humble opinion, is as a control deck that uses Vedalken Shackles and New Blood style effects; grab their creatures with the Callous Oppressor or Blatant Thievery effects and sacrifice them to cast and copy instant speed "free" spells up to 4 times a turn cycle (Anhelo can grant Casualty on each of your opponents turns as well). Free spells can include anything that makes enough treasure to pay for the first copy when copied (Big Score) or otherwise doesn't require mana (Deadly Rollick, Meeting of Minds). Then you just need some decent recursive 2 power creatures to sacrifice; fill the deck up with decay tokens that can be made off of instants in addition to self-reanimators like Sneaky Snacker and Bloodghast. Eventually they run out of threats, or they concede when they lose the will to play a creature into an open Helm of Possession lol
That's correct. Chandra's Ignition specifically says that it's *the creature* that deals damage equal to its power. And since deathtouch means "any amount of damage *this creature deals* to another is enough to destroy it," the deathtouch goes through. Other examples include Bite Down, Master's Rebuke, and Cosmic Hunger. It's a classic trick in Green/Black deathtouch decks. Other spells that say " *this spell* deals damage equal to the greatest power among creatures you control" do not work like this, however, since it's the spell that's doing the damage.
I was really conflicted on it when I saw it come out. On the one hand, I *am* convinced that it's a cut above the other token makers with how flexible the first option is, and I think that's worth saying. On the other hand though, it's still 3 mana, and Anhelo only copies our first instant and sorcery each turn, so it's not like we're in a hurry to storm off in the first place, so I'm not sure how valuable that first option really is. None of this mentioning, of course, that we're trying *really hard* to only be playing creatures on turns 1 and 2. Turn 3 is the commander and any creature we play after is a spell that we're not copying. The conclusion I came to is that Baral and Kari Zev gets closer to getting into the deck than any of the other cards in its class, but still doesn't cut it for me- though it's a close call, and anyone's free to experiment with it.
no interest in using Anhelo as a reanimator? or to drain oponents with stuff like Syr Konrad? I kind of miss having multiple ways to win with a deck like this
Thanks for watching! This is the kind of comment I appreciate the most, so thank you for that as well 😊 As for those specific questions, Anhelo doesn't say anything about reanimation or mill, so in order to support either of those strategies, we'd have to designate *a lot* of card slots towards it, and that means fewer spells copied with Anhelo, which seems like it's the point of an Anhelo deck (though if that's not what you want, then by all means, go ahead). As for having multiple ways to win, there's no reason a deck like this couldn't have more than one. However, Anhelo's ability requires *so much* setup that if the deck isn't very tightly focused, chances are you probably won't copy very many spells at all. I'm still needing to update this list with the cards from LOTR though, which will smooth things out, and hopefully open up new slots for wincons. I'll post an update when I do.
Thanks for watching! I love getting to talk more about these decks, and there's only so much you can really say in a video, so I'll expand more on that cut here, and we can compare notes. - Because of how low the curve is in this deck (Mana Geyser is already pretty close to the top), there aren't really any spells that we want that much mana for, and since we're already giving up card resources in the form of creatures, we can't afford to spew our hand when we "pop off" unless we're closing out the game that turn. - What's more, since so many of the cards in the deck rely on being copied to be worth the card slot (Honor the God-Pharoah, etc), if we're just dumping mana into these cards without copying them, the degree to which we're popping off is given a hard ceiling. - There's really only one card in the deck with an activated ability worth sinking this mana into, and that's the Twinning Staff, but one card does not earn this kind of mana. In short, while Mana Geyser is a great card *in general,* in this deck, we'd have to radically alter the supporting infrastructure to make it worth the slot. Thanks for watching!
I think there are good ideas here but you also are just putting in a ton of cards which are independently weak, which means you’ll really suffer against interaction where your gameplans break down.
I didn't understand why the deck wasn't working the way I'd thought it would but this makes a whole lotta sense! Thank you for the advice.
I've been trying to make Anhelo work for a long time and I was enlightened by this video. But unfortunately, while the analysis and theory make sense, playing a list like this didn't work like expected.
The biggest issue I saw in my games is that you usually only cast 1 spell per round since you ramp so little and every spell is expensive. This means that if the spell you cast each round doesn't generate a lot of advantage for you, someone is going to run faster and win because you're board presence is not a threat and you're tapped most of the time. Also, by casting one spell each round, cards like Cathartic Reunion totally floods us. Drawing 6 cards while having 4 after discarding 2 cards means we are discarding 3 more.
I prefer more controlling decks usually and Anhelo can copy the first spell each turn. So the best way to optimize him is to play one spell in every turn of the round. That requires a lot of mana and a lot of bodies to sacrifice. So mana rocks, lowering the curve, replacing more sorceries for instants and some of the token generators are going to help us to achieve this goal.
How do you feel about this approach?
Ive revamped my anhelo deck a few times, including over the last couple of days which brought me to your video.
Ive came to a lot of the same conclusions as you (most token makers suck, no poison etc) but we disagree on where to curve out with Anhelo. For me, im not curving anhelo on 3, its too powerful if left alive and is often killed on sight.
Curving anhelo on turn 4 or 5 allows us to protect him with the best type of countermagic this deck can play imo, phasing/broughtback spells; march of swirling mist, slip out the back, reality ripple, teferi's time twist, malakir rebirth and fake your own death. Unlike counterspell or negate, they can be used proactively if necessary and benefit from being copied (copying a counterspell does nothing like 99% of the time).
Curving anhelo on turn 4 or 5 also makes the 3 drop token makers much more appealing, especially if like me, you are planning on getting max value from anhelo and copying spells up to 4 times per turn cycle. Poppet Stitcher/Baral and Kari Zev are the cream of the crop here since they will give us the tokens we need on our opponents turns as well. We get max value by copying on our opponents turns by playing as many free-to-cast or generates-treasure instants as possible; flick a coin, snap, pile on, meeting of minds, lethal scheme, big score, unexpected windfall, frantic search, snapback, snuff out and deadly rollick (the last two are not so budget friendly).
And the last fundamental difference between our lists is stealing threats, which is my preferred route to victory over more spikey win conditions like extra turns or torment of hailfire. Playing cards like Callous Oppressor, Helm of Possession and vedalken shackles give us an additional stream of sacrifice fodder as well as provide us with threats. Round out with similar but copyable spells like New Blood, Ritual of the machine, confiscation coup and Blatant Thievery as powerful 4 for 1s or better that can easily carry you to a win.
But we agree on cards like revenge of the drowned, honor the god-Pharoah, rotten reunion etc. I really like these types of cards in this list, I even play Startle and Release the Gremlins.
Apologies for the long winded post, I just really like Anhelo and yours is the first take ive seen with some views similar to mine so i thought id share my thoughts.
Holy shit, I love your take and have come to similar conclusions. You got a list somewhere? I've tweaked mine with a couple playtests but it's not quite there yet
@@warrentang7459 I don't have a list I'm content with at the moment; I keep jumping between the version I described here and a cEDH version that tries to copy Dark Petition or Beseech the Mirror into combo lines. I also have something in-between the combo list and the casual list that is a Storm list revolving around Mizzix's Mastery and Temporal Fissure.
But I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.
@@jayjayhooksch1do you agree with the video maker that 4 mana and higher token generators aren't worth the investment?
@@warrentang7459 I think the 3 mana token generators are playable including Black Market Connections. The only 4 mana or more token generator that is worth looking at is cryptic pursuit; it doesn't die to creature removal and it's also a card advantage engine. I don't run it personally, but it's almost there.
@@warrentang7459I do agree because they generally take up a turn cycle. Plus your ideal situation is casting and copying the 4+ cmc spells. You generally won’t be able to do that and play a 4 drop creature on the same turn. Then the entire situation you only get one 2/2 token? That’s kind of underwhelming. If you ran cantrips or more 1 drops it makes sense but double 1 drop spells are not Anhelo strengths here
nice vid and I got a lot of inspiration from here. I made my anhelo deck with primary focus on drawing, some control, and stocking up treasures with cards like unexpected windfall then do 11 mana crackle with power + casualty which will deal 30 damage to each opponents, my pod was still pretty casual and we shy away from infinites when I could pull this off but now dualcaster and ral combo seems like the most sensible wincon, seeing ral can also work with reverberate/expand + casualty
I looked at double vision as a huge waste of a turn for a while, but then I realized it's just the almost objectively better card to cast if anhelo died and got sent back to the command zone, since it's the same mana value (or less) for a harder to remove permanent
i really liked your take on this commander and would love to see your take on a Cormela edh also
awesome analysis, but with all the generated value i’d like to see some efficient finishers in the 100 to really use the early curve and tempo advantage to close out the game
In my deck I tend to finish the game around turn 6-9 with copied rituals and crackle with power or copying Tasha's hideous laughter to remove my opponents entire library
How are you doing with the closer so far? My fav currently are aminatou's augury, such an insane value when cast and even more so if copied. there's also blatant thievery and the crowds fav expropriate.
I disagree with a lot of your opinions, but I appreciate the video
Interesting vid. I love Anhelo but a lot of cards I put in seem to slow down like Magnus and Deekah. It's tough because this commander seems to make your deck Convoluted. You need bodies to make the deck work.
Agreed. I will say that if there is a token maker you could throw in, it'd be Baral and Kari Zev from MoM, though I still don't have a high opinion of it for the same reasons as Poppet Stitcher, etc. (Though of all the token makers mentioned, poppet stitcher is the best)
I so highly agree about a lot of these, I can't think of a single game where Metallurgic Summonings was anything but a totally useless card in my hand. I will slightly disagree about Army of the Damned, it is by far my most common way I've won games.
I have been researching a lot of the new Capenna commanders recently because it’s my favorite set. I love the roaring 20s as a whole so this set calls out to me.
I have a spellslinger deck in veyran so looking into new twists like this intrigue me as well. I’ll watch again and review your list to get an idea. Have you done other commanders from this set.
Also I’m very impressed at your opener with the moving card art. Well done.
Thanks for watching! Ten billion percent with you on the roaring 20s 😍 This set pulled me back in to magic after a break and I love it. Can't wait to return.
I haven't yet done any other full decks from this set, but there's half a Falco Spara deck here: th-cam.com/video/Q1p77UPaRKA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for watching!
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 I’ll check out Falco for sure. I’m curious to see what you think about the other brokers commanders. Kros with his goad counter shenanigans and denry klin seems like a cracked commander to build.
$37.50 bruh isnt hatred almost that much just by itself? I really wanna try a very similar iteration of this but I'm grappling with a lot of painful cuts.
I usually keep the budget under 200 with decks but that being said you can fit a lot within those parameters.
Time Warp
Temporal Manipulation
Walk the Aeons
Time Stretch
Then you can play mystic retrieval and maestros confluence.
Paired with a magecraft token generator you proceed to take a very rube goldbergy infinite turns and kill the table with tokens generated on your extra turns.
I sort of disagree with the sentiment that you’re wasting a turn putting bodies on the field. Sometimes your commander isn’t really in the picture bc theres 4 players worth of removal so having secondary haymaker type creatures ensures you dont just lose to a few well times removal cards.
Great video! I love Anhelo, but havent found the right deck for him yet. Most decktechs rely on Tokenengines like talrand and a lot of instants to copy spells on each turn (also on your opponents turns). That seems like a lot of setup and a high budget deck if you want to include cards like "deekah" and "shark typhoon". I like your approach to cast cheap creatures with utility and start copying on turn 4, but your spells have to make a big impact because you often cast a creature to get the copy of your spell. For example: A "dire Fleet hoarder" into "grim bounty" is 2 cards and 6 mana for 2 removals and 2 treasures. Thats worse than casting 2 2mana removal instants which you can use without setup, at instant speed and indivually. I dont like some rituals either. These work great in lists with tokenengines because you essentially pay nothing for them. With your approach you still have to cast creature spells to copy them, which makes this chaining of rituals just a waste of honest casted creatures.
It's also possible that the cards needed to make Anhelo truly great simply don't exist yet. But let me elaborate.
I'm still confident in my assessments and reasoning for excluding those token makers- the timing is clumsy and they're creatures that aren't copyable spells. Moreover, not only would you be taking a turn off of casting an instant/sorc to cast these token makers, but because so many of them trigger when you cast the spell, and Anhelo only copies the *first* instant or sorc each turn, you actually have to take *two* turns off of making copies in order to make tokens. That's all just true, and these cards should keep a healthy distance from this deck. But you also make an important observation- jumping through all these hoops isn't always very efficient.
When we copy the spells in an Anhelo deck, trading a body in for an extra copy of a spell, one way to fix this efficiency is to come out ahead on mana- we only get one copy per turn, so copying a 4, 5, or 6 mana spell gives us that much mana back in value when we copy it. If the sacrificed creature costs 1-2 mana, then you come out ahead on mana- not to mention whatever value that creature provides when it dies- giving these spells the additional utility of acting as a sac outlet. And trading a creature card for a copy of a spell makes you break even on cards.
Ideally, what you'd want is for the spells that you're copying to chain you into more creatures while providing their value. We see this in cards like Honor the God Pharaoh, Flip the Switch, etc, and it's why I'm expecting to find more cards for Anhelo in the Lord of the Rings set coming out with the return of the Amass mechanic. Stay tuned for more on that.
In the specific case you mention, Grim Bounty, think of the math like this: it's two 3-mana spells that each say "kill a creature and make a treasure token." While many commander pods might always choose 2 mana removal over 3 mana removal, there's a lot of wiggle room when it comes to spells that supply extra value on top of it (see Finishing Move in the wilson deck), and personally, I think such a spell would be a great card, *especially in a deck without much ramp* though Deadly Derision from the new March of the machine set would be an upgrade as it's an instant.
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 Thank you for the elaborate awnser! I fully understand your reasoning to exclude the tokenengines. I tried to build my own deck without them aswell and its the reason i got so interested in your video/deck. Token creating instant/sorceries are perfect for this, but there arent many of them. Honor of the God Pharaoh is pretty clever. I guess many people overlook it because it doesnt make a 2/2 until you copy it, but its pretty good. Unfortuntaly the other amass cards we got yet dont benefit to much from copying, but LOTR maybe brings some more. Another card you got consider is "startle".
I think we disagree on some cards in your decklist, but thats totally fine i guess :) I just wanted to mention two cards: First memory deluge cant be copied because you dont CAST the copy and so X would be 0. Maybe "Fact or Fiction" or "Meeting of minds" would be a better fit.
The second card are the bounce lands. I really like these cards as they are great fixing and card advantage for budget decks. You radically cut all cards that dont fit in your curve to start copying on turn 4 though. With a bounceland thats only possible with a 1-drop on turn one or two which you only have 2 of in the whole deck. Path of Ancestry, the reveal lands or the pain lands would suit your strategy better imo.
Thanks for the tip! Normally I wouldn't have considered any two-mana cards for the value reasons mentioned in my first reply but I think I actually like Startle because of how much it's doing.
- You're right about Memory Deluge though. Normally, Copied spells copy all characteristics of the original when on the stack, including the mana paid for them. This is why copying kicked spells and x-spells still works, but because it specifically says "cast," it doesn't apply here. Good catch. I've updated the description with this correction. I'll probably swap it out for startle 😂
- The bounce lands are a neat piece of tech actually: you're not meant to play them turns 1-5, so if one is in your opening hand, don't count it as a land. Any turn after that though, these lands act like a free Cultivate- get a land in play and make your next land drop, and in Grixis colors, that's valuable (especially since we don't really play any ramp). Though you're right that the pain lands would be a welcome addition.
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 I would think of "startle" more as one of your 2mana creatures to sacrifice. Its similar to guildsworn prowler, but you can copy it later for extra value. You explainined the memory deluge interaction better than me, sorry about that. I found out about it while playing on Arena, otherwise i would have probably overlooked it too 😅
What’s the decisions behind Maddening Cacophony?
A casualtied MC takes each opponent down to
I tried the build, but I became the threat early on, and I ate most of my opponents' interactions. It became an uphill battle and might need to slot in some protection spells so I can deal with removal. I was hoping I can get some suggestions on what to use?
This is one of the few decks I'm planning on revisiting in the future, so I'll be able to more completely address some changes regarding that then. But in the meantime, my top pick for protection is Izzet Charm. It can protect when you need it, and be either removal or casualtied Card selection when you don't. Depending on your budget, you might also try
- Insidious Will
- Return the Favor
- Slip Out the Back
- An Offer You Cant Refuse
- Arcane Denial
- Fierce Guardianship
Thanks, I look forward to it! I tried the token makers but I didn't like how they played. I'll check out the cards you mentioned
Fuck, he is nice. I want to build around him so bad.
Very interesting deck deck. Lacking a few finishers tho, i reckon. Have you tried it in a game? How has it fared? Also, can you do some upgrades to bring it to a higher lvl?
Thanks for watching!
Right now, the biggest finishers I could justify were the ones mentioned in the Endgame section. Hatred can K.O. a player for 5 mana and the combos and damage dealers are increasingly reliable thanks to the high-efficiency card draw, and I've been really happy with it so far.
However, if I could wish for a card, or if anyone knows something I don't, it would be:
- an instant or sorcery that
- will cost 7 or less mana that
- will win when copied and
*does not*
- have 3 or more of the same pip in its mana cost, or
- take extra turns
Walk the aeons is 6 mana 2 blue and 4 colorless you get an extra turn.
Nobody knows how to build that cursed commander. XD. It's just painfully clunky to pilot in all forms. It's sad too because it is an interesting idea. I feel this should have been in Naya or Temur instead. And yes, I share some sentiment with the common cards in the builds. I love Grixis a lot, and I want something flavorful aside from the same exact deck but different commander in any other high level list.
Can't figure out anything and it frustrates me so darn much. I appreciate this insight. I wonder if I could slip in some Nicol Bolas things in this list.
@@fulgerion I've built this commander every which way and twice the other way. You have to purposely water it down otherwise it's too powerful for casual and too weak for CEDH.
After about a dozen major iterations, the "correct" way to build it, in my humble opinion, is as a control deck that uses Vedalken Shackles and New Blood style effects; grab their creatures with the Callous Oppressor or Blatant Thievery effects and sacrifice them to cast and copy instant speed "free" spells up to 4 times a turn cycle (Anhelo can grant Casualty on each of your opponents turns as well).
Free spells can include anything that makes enough treasure to pay for the first copy when copied (Big Score) or otherwise doesn't require mana (Deadly Rollick, Meeting of Minds).
Then you just need some decent recursive 2 power creatures to sacrifice; fill the deck up with decay tokens that can be made off of instants in addition to self-reanimators like Sneaky Snacker and Bloodghast.
Eventually they run out of threats, or they concede when they lose the will to play a creature into an open Helm of Possession lol
Mana geyser doubled and then pumped into an x spell lie Ribbons or Jaya's Immolating Inferno wins me the game with Anhelo all the time.
X spells wouldn't be a bad addition. This deck is on my list of decks to update and I'll look into it then.
Hey, i LOVE your videos. would you be interested in making a kess video?
Ooh that sounds fun! It'd probably be a while- I've got a long queue ahead of me already 😅 but I'd love to someday!
Chandras ignition will pass on the deathtouch effect??.. are you sure about that
That's correct. Chandra's Ignition specifically says that it's *the creature* that deals damage equal to its power. And since deathtouch means "any amount of damage *this creature deals* to another is enough to destroy it," the deathtouch goes through.
Other examples include Bite Down, Master's Rebuke, and Cosmic Hunger. It's a classic trick in Green/Black deathtouch decks.
Other spells that say " *this spell* deals damage equal to the greatest power among creatures you control" do not work like this, however, since it's the spell that's doing the damage.
How do you think baral and karl zev work in this style of anhelo?
I was really conflicted on it when I saw it come out. On the one hand, I *am* convinced that it's a cut above the other token makers with how flexible the first option is, and I think that's worth saying.
On the other hand though, it's still 3 mana, and Anhelo only copies our first instant and sorcery each turn, so it's not like we're in a hurry to storm off in the first place, so I'm not sure how valuable that first option really is.
None of this mentioning, of course, that we're trying *really hard* to only be playing creatures on turns 1 and 2. Turn 3 is the commander and any creature we play after is a spell that we're not copying.
The conclusion I came to is that Baral and Kari Zev gets closer to getting into the deck than any of the other cards in its class, but still doesn't cut it for me- though it's a close call, and anyone's free to experiment with it.
My anhelo is just storm, combos and gravery resources, has not a single tutor and still win the game at 6 ou 7 turns
no interest in using Anhelo as a reanimator? or to drain oponents with stuff like Syr Konrad?
I kind of miss having multiple ways to win with a deck like this
Thanks for watching! This is the kind of comment I appreciate the most, so thank you for that as well 😊
As for those specific questions, Anhelo doesn't say anything about reanimation or mill, so in order to support either of those strategies, we'd have to designate *a lot* of card slots towards it, and that means fewer spells copied with Anhelo, which seems like it's the point of an Anhelo deck (though if that's not what you want, then by all means, go ahead).
As for having multiple ways to win, there's no reason a deck like this couldn't have more than one. However, Anhelo's ability requires *so much* setup that if the deck isn't very tightly focused, chances are you probably won't copy very many spells at all. I'm still needing to update this list with the cards from LOTR though, which will smooth things out, and hopefully open up new slots for wincons. I'll post an update when I do.
>passing on mana geyser
What if i told you, you dont have to worry about first time casualty when you have 30+ mana to pop off
Thanks for watching! I love getting to talk more about these decks, and there's only so much you can really say in a video, so I'll expand more on that cut here, and we can compare notes.
- Because of how low the curve is in this deck (Mana Geyser is already pretty close to the top), there aren't really any spells that we want that much mana for, and since we're already giving up card resources in the form of creatures, we can't afford to spew our hand when we "pop off" unless we're closing out the game that turn.
- What's more, since so many of the cards in the deck rely on being copied to be worth the card slot (Honor the God-Pharoah, etc), if we're just dumping mana into these cards without copying them, the degree to which we're popping off is given a hard ceiling.
- There's really only one card in the deck with an activated ability worth sinking this mana into, and that's the Twinning Staff, but one card does not earn this kind of mana.
In short, while Mana Geyser is a great card *in general,* in this deck, we'd have to radically alter the supporting infrastructure to make it worth the slot.
Thanks for watching!
I think there are good ideas here but you also are just putting in a ton of cards which are independently weak, which
means you’ll really suffer against interaction where your gameplans break down.
I really don't I need to know how to make it work.