I'd still say that IL-2 1946 is still perfectly viable for new players. Yes it is much older, but it offers over 200 different planes, covers most of the major fronts, is very modable, doesn't require too much hardware wise, and is dirt cheap. It is at least one of the safer bets.
I have to say, the moddability of IL-2 1946 is endless. Also, applying the mods correctly without crashing at the startup screen is an experience by itself. But damn, when it works, it's amazing!
agree. the physics in the game were really good especially for the time, so although not as realistic as DCS or BoS it will give u a good idea of whether you would like to sim in the modern, more hardcore games. and yeah, for just few bucks.
+nick shale yeah. il2/1946 with something like the VP mod is a must have for me. you get excellent planes on all fronts of the war and you can get a dynamic campaign with it. For a couple of pounds (literally) you get a lot of content.
Nice overview, although I would like to add that the "discounted" version of the IL-2 BoS deluxe edition only took it from 70 € to 50 € (and the regular version to 35, I think) when I bought it, nobody should expect to pick it up for 10-20 bucks any time soon; just sth. for people to keep in mind, these are specialist, niche games with a comparatively small player base, so they are definitely on the pricey side of things. Also, one thing I would like to add for anyone who intends to fly multiplayer in IL-2, get yourself a rather thick skin. The hard core player base of simulation games like these tends to be sprinkled with a fair share of elitist cunts, I got quite a lot of abuse from some people on my first flights in multiplayer. Just don't let it get to you, you'll improve over time.
I'll be honest as well, War Thunder probably isn't a bad intro game to those who want to see if flight sims are for them, and quite frankly that's also the game that played a huge part in saving the flight sim genre. People start off in the easy modes, progress to 'simulation' mode, realize that it's not an overly realistic simulation but have some experience under their belt, and can move onto the games you listed. Just food for thought.
That is exactly how I got into DCS P-51D and IL-2 BOS - War Thunder with a HOTAS setup is not good, unless you play in a Full-Real Battle, or whatever they call it. And those are dead. Apparently everyone very quickly moves on to other more complete sims. And so... I did too. I'm just staring to get comfortable enough to start jumping into multiplayer, I think.
Lord Gronor WT did something right with an arcade mode which takes into account energy states, damage and flight model rather than being Ace Combat/WofWarplanes
Ehh, that game feels awful. Somehow, it manages to take the worst parts of a simulator and amplify them so much that if they were my first experience I would think flying isn't fun at all, and worse I wouldn't even give simulators a try thinking they'd just be more hardcore. Now Rise of Flight on the other hand, that game is a dream to fly in. Great sense of speed, relatively forgiving while also teaching you the more complex mechanics like not ripping your wings off in a dive and having a sophisticated enough damage model that all those little things can go wrong. They just happen in a more intuitive way, and I think it's the sound design that is a big part of it.
Hah! I was about to say something about that. I started with Flight Simulator 2.0 (or some version around that) back in 1989. Throughout my teens, I wanted very badly to be a pilot. I studied the manuals necessary to get your private pilot's license, navigation, instrument flight rules, you name it. Then I found out just how much that would cost. So it's flight sims for me. :)
I started in DCS and mastered the A-10C, I'm glad I started in DCS because it made games like IL-2 easy because I didn't have to learn all the in cockpit switches and buttons.
il2 1946 is still enjoyable with some of the great mods available. For I think 2 bucks its worth it, especially if you like long single player campaigns in a lot of various planes.
Il2 1946 is what got me into flight sims years ago. Although I would argue that the price of the actual sim isn't that important when you look at a fully decked out flight sims periphery layout, with HOTAS, rudder, head tracker and the mandatory tablet for checklist. Especially the purchase of a TrackIR bumped my enjoyment of the genre from 'Pretty neat' to 'great'. Now, if VR headsets would just be high resulution enough...
I got so many hours of enjoyment out of all the old IL-2 games and all I had was 5:4 monitor and 9€ joystick, great sim for beginners, the campaigns are a lot of fun and you can run the sim on an average microwave.
I would definitely have added IL-2: 1946, which has Forgotten Battles and Pacific Fighters combined with it now, rather than Cliffs of Dover which is limited to the Battle of Britain. However, with the new Team Fusion "Blitz Edition" release, Cliffs of Dover IS one sweet looking sim, now. I hope they will be doing the same thing to 1946. >fingers crossed
Well the main aspect il2 1946 is lacking is multicore support and memory restrictions. It would be nice if they could change it to 64bit for the latter reason so it can soak up 16 GB of ram for example. Also the way it is implemented right now I feel like you can spawn too few planes for one side. I'd like to have a full war going on around me and I just fly my mission in it seeing dogfights at the horizon or industrial centers being bombed. There are some multiplayer servers that simulate dynamic wars but they are restricted by the same limits you have in singleplayer as well. The clouds could use some overhaul too. I really dislike that they are turning with my plane. Especially with the high res mod clouds it becomes worse. Maybe there's a fix for it but I haven't found it yet. Still I really love those highly detailed community made maps where you have the opportunity to create some great alternative history campaigns. I for example made two versions of a campaign based around operation sealion. In part one you play the British and in part two the German forces with multiple different roles to fly in (I even made a bonus mission where you have to land a Me321 close to the city of Dover in a night setting)
Very good guide. The four sims you posted are excellent and are for sure the cutting edge right now. Good job discussing the relative good and bad parts of the games. Couple of things. I really like the discussion about the time and effort needed to be good at these games. These are not games for people that are pressed for time or can't sit still for any length of time. When I was editor at SimHq I had a lot of extra time to spend on games like European Air War, IL2, and Jane's WW2 Fighters but as I have aged I have found much less time to enjoy the sims you listed above. I have all four, and fly them (as well as Aces High) from time to time but my days as an experten are long gone. These take dedication, time and patience. This is especially true when you venture online. Newbies will find themselves feeling like cannon fodder the first few times they try flying against some of the more experienced pilots. I get frustrated when I log on to something like Aces High, take off in a Spit and get blasted in my first encounter. I don't have the time or patience I used to have back when I was in my 20s and 30s so I often swear a lot and then put the stick down. Speaking of sticks, this is probably something you should have mentioned more, the cost. None of the games you listed will run well on the minimum specs provided by the game producer. In fact, ignore them all together and if your computer doesn't approach the recommended specs I would suggest an easier sim on your computer like IL2:1946. This game is older, actually the engine dates to 2001 and I flew a pre-release version a year earlier but the game still holds up relatively well and runs on most computers today. I agree that a joystick is a must but for games like DCS you really need a HOTAS (hand on stick and throttle for those that don't know the jargon) to get the most out of the game. A track IR adds immersion and a good set of rudder pedals are important although some of newer HOTAS setups have a twist joystick feature that can be used instead of rudder pedals. I really enjoy your videos, they make my evening. I love you you put the sims in the game to add to the enjoyment. Keep up the good work. Tom 'Wklink' Cofield, feature editor (retired) SimHq.com
"Simulations don't offer much in the way of single-player experience". Let me be the pedantic (and nostalgic) Kraut here when I point out the fact that this is not a drawback inherent to the simulation genre. Or at least it didn't used to be. Used to be that you would get sims that offered both high levels of fidelity and realism (for their time) *plus* motivating and interesting single-player modes. Mostly in the days before multiplayer became a big thing for any type of PC-game. Anyone remember "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe", "Their Finest Hour", "Falcon 3 & 4" or the "Aces"-series by Dynamix? It's kinda sad that the genre has regressed in this department over the past 10 or 15 years. While we do have much more detailed and sophisticated depiction of aircraft, their systems and flying per se, the "game"-aspect of sims has been left by the wayside. All the titles mentioned in this video offer next to nothing outside of multiplayer. Even the ancient "Red Baron" or "Aces of the Pacific" had better single player modes and campaigns, while BoS for example only throws one generic mission after the other at you and the only way that game tries to keep your interest is by forcing you to "unlock" equipment and even paint-jobs. And some of these sims would be *perfect* candidates for a dynamic campaign à la Falcon 4, simulating an ongoing conflict in real-time and putting the player either into the role of the "small cog in a large machine" or letting him steer the conflict on a strategic level. Especially DCS A10 or CoD would be great starting points for this. Plus a dynamic campaign could also be used in multiplayer-mode, letting more than one player join the conflict and fly missions or make tactical/strategic decisions. Ideally, such a campaign could draw in players who don't even want to fly, but who'd rather treat the game in question as a strategy game, letting them handle the planning while other players do the flying.
The problem here is that these simulators became so realistic that ai can not keep up. You either make them a piece of cake or impossible to beat as they are not adaptable to situations as players have. Dcs and RoF has pretty good single player campaigns. Do not also forget that these games are focused on being as realistic as possible and it can't be more realistic than fighting with and against real players as that is the real challenge.
I was a great fan of SWotL. Bought many of the add-on aircraft. Learned the peculiarities of the AI pilots and became pretty much invincible in fighters. Didn't like the B-17, though.
The racing sim genre has the same problem. Single player sims just don't really exist anymore. Project Cars 2 is the best we have, and it isn't that great. If you want to race against someone but don't want a ruin someones day in multiplayer with noobish mistakes while you learn, you can't. The ai is always so bad, and bad in a very bizarre unrealistic way.
Aces of the Pacific was great in its' day. Aces over Europe was awesome also. The only real way to play though is online in Aces High or Warbirds. I got immersed in Air Warrior when it was on Gamestorm and while there was no campaign, there wre real challenging people. AI just can't compete with people, and WW2 flight sims have been doing what Call of Duty wishes it could do for a couple decades.
I bought "Rise of flight" some time ago on Steam, but never had the time to install it. Maybe one day i will find the time to give it a try. Years back i loved to play Il-2 Forgotten Battles and Pacific Fighters. Even many more years back i played "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe" and "Janes WWII Fighters".
For me, if you are new to this genre and wanna simply get good or have fun, IL2 1946 is the one. Despite it being the oldest, hence lacking graphics, it is famous for having the most ww2 content(aircraft) while being cheap on steam and easily able to run in almost any machine. To me it's a must, and an all time favourite.
Just adding: The 24/7 dynamic online campaign "Storm of War" for Cliffs of Dover has just recently started into its 4th iteration. It's by far the most faithful multiplayer recreation of the Battle of Britain and adds elements of supply, attrition and strategic objectives to the standard multiplayer experience.
Howdy - I would like to add “Aces High” combat flight sim to the list. I first flew in “Fighter Ace” through the the basic, advanced and then the “Realistic” arenas. I then spent a number of years flying “War Birds,” and finally “Aces High.” I have been flying “Aces High” for the last 5 or so years. (most folks see the title and think that it is a card game,) So far it is the only combat flight sim that, from my experience as a Private Pilot, has realistic flight physics. Each aircraft is distinctly different and none have the kind of “bouncy” flight physics that I have encountered in some other flight sims. Download and practice arenas are free, but if one chooses to fly on line the cost is $14.95 USD / month. There is but one server for on-line flying which I can say is up up 24/7/365. What really impressed me was the support they provide. Any time I have called they have answered in about 3 rings and they have been most helpful over the years. I must add that I am not associated with AH in any way, and even though I have flown in AH for years I still get “smoked” more times as not. Oh, and AH also has a bunch of GVs as well. (Tanks, anti-aircraft an troop carrying ground vehicles.)
Thats because they were not developed by same company (just same publisher). So CLOD is based on different flight engine to BOx. CLOD blitz is (vastly improved) by team fusion (community developed) patches. People often complain about this, but 1946 is a very old game now. Cost is always based on sales vs development cost. And BOx (games) has had considerable more development than 1946 (and its still being expanded), its also not a AAA title, they are niche titles. BOx has a vastly more complex flight model, much more focus is on vehicle modeling, damage models, physics skins etc etc (time is money). They are worlds apart, and not really comparable. IMHO if your are unsure what to get go for 1946 then CLOD 1st . they will give you a idea for what sims are and they are very cheap to buy games. (also CLOD is closer in design to BOx and DCS than 1946 is). 1946 had great single player side, and easier learn curve.
Good point at the start of video, I neglect how hard flight sims are sometimes. I've been playing them on and off since I was about 8. But I was drawn along by pure passion for aviation.
Missed out Wings over Flanders Fields a real single player dynamic campaign in WW1. I have all the above sims and none get near WoFF for depth or immersion considering its single player it kicks all the above into touch
I wouldn't say CloD has a small community; the ATAG server regularly gets up to 60 players at peak hour and ACG runs weekly historic campaigns with 170 members. I haven't seen anything close on BoS or DCS.
As you said youself, ATAG brings around 60 at peak hours, while BoS beats that double at peak on multiple servers (WoL - full (84), DED (x2) - med to full). If on specific special days CloD has more, than that is not statisically relevant.
Of course the collective of BoS servers will beat the ATAG server. Including the other servers and smaller communities of CloD, the 'daily' players of BoS and CloD are about the same. The ACG run campaign is relevant because it provides a community for players who want a more realistic and historic experience compared to the continuous running servers. At 170 members, it is hardly statistically irrelevant and it is not just a 'once a week' event. Quite simply, if you're a player who prefers a large, historical multiplayer campaign, there currently is no option for that outside of CloD. Let me be clear that I'm not trying to argue which community is better or larger than another, I just find it strange that you'd call the CloD community small when there are so many people playing it and there is more variety to suit an individual's preference.
Great list! These are the very best modern titles. One sim to note for anyone looking to get into simming is IL-2 1946 which is the ultimate and fully refined version and compilation of the original IL-2 game along with its many expansions. It's very cheap on steam and with some config folder tweaks and some mods from the vast and active modding communities, it can be competitive with modern flight sims like the ones mentioned here.
Just to add an update to this, you can now use the "Beta Opt-in" option on Steam to auto-download the mod for CoD, as it has semi-official status from the developer.
I saw two seconds of that IL2:CloD footage and thought "is that Karaya?", then noticed the text in the bottom right. He is an awesome pilot, and good gunner, aswell as pretty funny in conversation, but he is a bitch as flight lead, because he´s not used to it. He´ll see something and just poof, he´s gone, usually getting 3 or 4 shoot downs before you link up with him again
I love these video's the title is perfect btw I think teh Idea of "the order of the Kraut" should be an ongoing joke. I am so glad to hear that IL 2 Cliffs of Dover has a mod to make it better I have IL2 BoS and BoM and 1946 and RoF I personally think they are great games Keep up teh great work and my Grandfather shall give you an Iron cross (cuz grandad is general from WW2 and foot soldier from WW1)
I flew IL2 -1946 many years ago, then tried Rise of Flight but my game of choice is DCS. Personally, I put accurate flight model of planes and complexity as a top priority. Keeps my brain working. Multiplayer is enjoyable experience.
Dcs WW2 titles are easy to learn as far as the startup and controls are concerned. Nothing like the A10 or Blackshark. Mastering takeoffs, landings, and combat depend on the player but offer a great sense of satisfaction when you pull it all together.
Btw I would say that Cliffs of Dover is slightly more difficult to get into than BoS simply because system & engine modelling is more complex. Currently it's on sale for 5€ so not much of a financial risk involved. Also steam refunds are a thing if one should happen to not like it at all for whatever reason.
Haven't purchased BoS yet, but I recently started CLoD. It seems intimidating at first, but luckily a few older players guided me through all the control set-ups and everything that one needs to know and it's been a walk through the park ever since. I have even scored 15 kills the previous month ...in 103 sorties!
Would you say that the modelling in Cliffs of Dover with it's clickable cockpit is similar to the one found in DCS? For example if a DCS: Bf-109 E4 comes out, would it be the same as in Cliffs of Dover ?
A DCS 109E-4 would be more detailed in its modelling of the clickable cockpit & systems but that's to be expected of a study sim that focuses on singly released aircraft and which does not give a damn about coherent theatres or conflicts.
JG4_Karaya Couldn't have regretted it even if I didn't like it at all. The purchase cost me 3 euros (and 30 minutes of my time if you count TF mod installs)! Your videos are very good by the way. Ich kann also mein Hörverstehen üben. 2 in 1!
If you're new, that thing is riddiculously difficult to get into. I would definitely reccomend spending some money at some point on either Flaming Cliffs 3 to get used to how 4th gen fighters are supposed to be employed, or the A-10C to get used to full system simulation in the much more user-friendly environment DCS.
Back in the late 80s and early 90s when I used an Amiga 2000, I had a flight SIM called "Overlord" where the campaign went from Jan to June of 44, and you were tasked with preparing the way for the Invasion of Normandy . You could fly a Mk IX Spitfire, Typhoon, Mosquito or Mustang II, all in RAF colours. Or as a Luftwafffe Pilot you could fly a Bf109G. The Fw 190A-8 was, sadly, AI only, as were Ju 88s and Do 217Es. The BIG thing was that it innovated head tracking. The best mission set was V1 hunting in an FB VI Mosquito. And I often wish it had been ported to PC.....
I've put so much money into flight sims over the years. Just for the controls, I started with a Logitech Attack 3 (gift), then bought the Saitek X-52 (from a friend for $70 USD), now I have the Thrustmaster Warthog (300 USD on sale new). Not to mention the CH Products Pro Pedals and TrackIR 4.
Pleasantly surprised after taking a break from Cliffs of Dover and reinstalling it I found there was none of the downloading of patches anymore it's just one click and its done via steam ))
I know you're all about *combat* simulators and all, but there's also several excellent sims for non-combat flight. The first and foremost of course, being Microsoft Flight Simulator. Another great one is Condor Soaring, which my local glider club actually recommends, in spite of the fact that the software is now quite old. But really, these sims run so much smoother on modern hardware anyway. ;)
Lord only knows how many hours I have on IL-2 Sturmovik, '46. Played on the most basic computers starting around 2008. Being poor, I wait for trickle down technology & have just recently, finally, purchased a used, gaming computer. I've yet to use it but winter is coming. BoS, Rise of Flight, CoD, are my objectives, probably starting with BoS, namely because one can still get it on a CD-ROM. I'm perfectly content to play against AI, but have experienced limited on line play in the past with '46, & enjoyed that as well.
Welp. Thank you. This cleared up a long held confusion : there is an after IL-2 1946 and just to be super-confusing, it's still called IL-2 something-something...
Now all I have to do is purchase a real pc. Haven't played a ww2 sim since Microsoft Combat Flight Sim 2! That was a great one for its time but an upgrade is certainly in order. Thanks for another great video.
What you must keep in mind, is that these simulations will also teach you a basic understanding of mechanics, physics, planning, problem solving and emergency reactions applicable to real life. Also these simulators will leave you much more satisfied then your your typical instant gratification game.
Love your work Bismark. You are responsible for my new found love of sims. IL2 and DCS are my new favourite games. Have you had a look at Combat Air Patrol 2? It's a new game on Steam, flying the Harrier. It's a nice 'entry' level game to sims - very forgiving on my noobness. Thanks again
DCS is luckily trial, easy to find if it's go or no-go, there's definitely a community there, both for PvP and PvE Coop missions, and people will help you out, provided you show some common courtesy of course. CloD has much more difficult controls than BoX I feel, whereas in BoX you dont click any buttons in the cockpit and just click E and open radiator etc, off you go pretty much. The way I see it, BoX is purchase, watch a youtube video, hit a few buttons and fly. CloD.. not so much. BUT, CloD Blitz, the revival, is a good purchase at the current price and holds great promise for future development of an awesome simulator engine, also they have a good tight-knit community that will help you out, again, common courtesy is a must here, none of that "ah i cant do 360 no-scope on the super quick here f*ck you" and if that's your thing = no. Rise of Flight received botched Flight Model's in December 2014 (we call this the dreaded 2015 FM's, FM's > Flight Model's = How the planes handle, and right now they handle unhistorically) then the Developers locked the door and threw the key away, they didn't even make the pre 2015 FM's optional for servers or single player. What those FM's did was take away individual characteristics most of the planes had and made it about who has Force Feedback (avoid stall, perfect flying) and not (basically you have to be lucky), and fixed two of them, Pfalz D.III which could dive infinitely and climbed too well, is now far more docile, and Nieuport 17 (which kept spinning out). It has been unplayable ever since, the only ones left are mostly the ones (and we KNOW who they are) who lobbied for the FM's, using inaccurate information and let feelings get in the way, just so they could get their perfect little planes, whilst the actual core players up and left between 2014 and 2016 (they gave it a chance) and start the game (not sim, at this point) now and then. I keep playing it because, what other online WW1 sims do we have? And the reason I'm not recommending Flying Circus (Rise of Flight remake in the IL-2 BoX engine which is a modified RoF engine with DX12 and VR) is because we have no guarantee that what happened to RoF (botched FM's at the very last minute before they left it to rot), won't happen there, all though anPetrovich, one of the developers, has basically promised it won't, right now it's in early access and basically it's 4 RoF planes and a few skins ported into the BoX engine so far.
I hope I'm not speaking out of context in terms of simulations vs games, but I'd received a package from a friend who'd found a clearance deal on Activision's "Apache Air Assault". My point in even mentioning this game is that there's probably a ton of overhead available; it's already a superb flightsim experience without bringing my Nvidea GTX 970 to its knees---as DCS World sure can even on really low settings. They could AT LEAST make the indicators and gauges reflect "reality". I've also wondered why there are few to none helicopter sims or near-sims available for Playstation and/or Android. With all the horsepower is it maybe a deficit in available controller settings? You mentioned online/multiplayer....... another flightsim-capable platform exists in Battlefield 3 and 4, at least in helicopters. I"ve often wondered why they don't take a slice of Dice and dedicate development of a heli sim....... knowing nothing about development of sim/game development I"m curious if there's actually a "plugin" layer to embed a 3rd party aeronautical package into whatever game-type application they're creating? thanks for the overview
I would add IL-2 1946 with either the VP mod pack or B.A.T. Modpack. I still play this quite often, it can't be beat for campaign variety, amount of flyable planes and variety of maps and environments. ☺️
just got Thrustmaster T.16000m pack and bought DCS FA-18C, the learning curve is steep, 6 hrs in atm and still doing same training over and over, greate game for VR.
I got il-2 BoS for 4€ on steam a while back. I currently don't have the time nor a joystick but I definetly will in summer sooooo absolutely worth the buy :DDD
"Rise of Flight" is 1914-198, not 1916. Been playing since it first took flight and have been through the whole development process right up to the realisation of a Pilot Career. I'd choose this over DCS any day of the week, and the forthcoming Microprose titles as well.
The segment on DCS is well-said....... there's a few widely-acknowledged issues, such as the stripped cockpits of certain models...... by "stripped" I mean the cockpits are static; in A-10c and Ka-50 Blackshark 2 the cockpit functions are...... close to complete in terms of functioning knobs and switches, while in other units there's no mouse use at all, save for head motion. I'm in a toss-up situation with F-18 vs F-14, but one question I've had is whether 3rd-party cockpit software allows one to fill cockpits with functional knobs and switches? good show....thanks
FC3 gives a new user a chance to play the game before diving in with a full fidelity model -- I think they're a perfect next step to the SU-25T that you get for free.
Would I enjoy a flight sim? I enjoyed X-Com: Interceptor. I used a joystick with my left hand, and worked a mouse as trim tabs, with my right. My Dad was a jet fighter pilot, so I've had a flight sim in my head, most of my life. :D I'm going to show this video to friends at the Hack RVA workshop club, where they have some very fancy hand flight controls. They prefer space flight, but they might spring for rudder pedals.
bro, thanks for the first part, i have no interest in investing in games as in buy a joystick for flying or anything. you saved me time (potentially wallet too).
I play IL2 1946 with a keyboard, its horrible for actually hitting anything (be it other planes or ground targets) or flying smoothly but its fun to just fly and and mess around in it.
I have played a bit of IL2 1946 in the recent years (Single player and local MP). How long would it take to adapt to CoD/BoS? Time sadly is a critical factor for me, but I'd like to get into flight sims again.
War Thunder Just a suggestion for someone who wants to ease into Flight sims I just want to mention War Thunder (not as a great Sim) as a good way to work your way up to sim flight if you are unsure. You can start with mouse and keyboard, then get a flight stick if you like flying. You can also start in an arcade mode to get used to the ideas and concepts in flight. Then move to the (very slightly) more advanced Realistic mode. If you think you enjoy flying in realistic mode, but you hate that mouse aim is complacently overpowered (joystick players are at an extreme disadvantage in both arcade and realistic mode) you can start flying Sim. Sim mode in War Thunder is a very low end sim that can get you the basics for only the cost of your time. Also No Mouse aim is allowed in air sim. If you find that you don't want to put the effort into learning the sim mode you can simply go back to realistic and arcade. But if you out grow War Thunder Sim mode, you can move up to a more challenging and realistic simulator like the sims mentioned in the video.
war thunder is not what most would consider a sim. I would suggest to start with 1946 and or CLOD .they will give you a idea for what sims are and they are very cheap to buy games. (also CLOD is closer in design to BOx and DCS than 1946 is). 1946 had great single player side, and easier learn curve.
@@EpicNightCrawler the benefit of suggesting war thunder is that it is free and will give you enough of an idea as to wether you actually want to play flight simulators at all without the barrier to entry of a steep learning curve, requiring mods or buying extra equipment
Arma 3 might be one of the worst flight sims you can get in terms of realism, and also it costs 30 € while war thunder with its much more accurate flight simulation is free
@@asfdse9706 arma 3 is a really good game for combined arms, it's just that the plane flight models are absolute dogshit, you can't even rip flaps or gears ffs
I struggled with several flight programs. In every one of them, the joystick was horrible. The aircraft would start to tilt to one side of the other. I bought another joystick, same thing. I bought another.... After three programs and four joysticks, I don't play any of them anymore. Never found out the problem. My favorite game was "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe". Makes me sad that I cannot play these games. Oh well.
Hey Bismarck, Ich hatt auch ein Auge auf den Joystick geworfen den du nutzt, sag mal, wenn man kein Track IR hat, kann man sich mit diesem trotzdem ordentlich umschauen?
An updated version of this would be good, both CLOD and BOx have matured a lot since this was done. CLOD is now fully patched blitz version, so no complicated patching (on steam) and BOx now has a lot more content.
I would say BOS seems easier to play than CloD, especially that you have to know how to mod the game and that it has more airplanes that require quite demanding engine managment. But overall I agree :)
Do ANY of these games have any form of dynamic campaign? (other than Rise of Flight, as you mentioned I have no interest in WW1 planes) I remember playing Microsoft Combat Flight Sim 3 and the dynamic campaign/roleplaying made that game so much fun. Do these games have any kind of "goal" other than simply playing a simulator to shoot down other planes?
IL-2 BOS has added scripted campaigns which you can buy on the store. And IL-2 CLOD with the team fusion mod which adds a campaign which simulates the the battle of Britain apparently. I haven't tried out either but i'm sure they're good.
I'm new to flight-sim community and i know that it was said in the beginning that u sould have a joystick for the "better experience" but as a starter can i play for example ił-2 1946 on mouse and keyboard?
no, you can't use mouse for flying and using keys is absolutely useless. buy an used joystick, it has to have twist axis otherwise your rudder will be uncontrollable. I bought logitech extreme 3d pro for 60zł and other than fixing one button ive had only positive experience
I tried war thunder and the aircraft did not fly as an aircraft should. Huge disappointment after years of playing CFS. Do these games fly realistically? Ie if you pull back on the stick the nose rises, etc?
I really enjoy your channel as I’ve been studying military aviation as a hobby since I was very young. Back then I also played a lot of flight simulation until I was fortunate enough to become a US Army aviator. Now, as a semi-retired civilian pilot, I decided to get back into flight simulation to pass the time when the real weather is too bad. Thanks for the great videos.
In your opinion, what's the most realistic between Battle of Stalingrad/Moscow/Kuban and Cliffs od Dover? I like very much the complex engine management of CoD, 'cause bring in a lot of immersion, but someone says that BoS has a better flight model. Looking at gameplays on youtube, BoS looks like a little bit "arcadish". :/
I know this is a older video but have you ever played a flight sim called aces high ? I used to play it it’s a ww2 centered game but last time I played it they added ww1 planes and they also have a limited amount of tanks and AA vehicals
Ah! just the person. Works as in you can fly as well as a JS user & the JS enhances the exp or you CAN fly but JS is waaaaaay better? Had CliffsoD, IL-2 & BoS for a while but got rid of my stick in the meantime, now I fancy playing them again. Should I wait till I can grab another JS or have at it with mouse for the time being?
You forgot Falcon BMS :) what is your opinion on that one? Or have you never flown it before? But I guess its not well fitted for a german WWII ace like you. BVR combat is a bit too difficult for me :P I prefer the guns on guns too.
BMS is definitely a sim to keep in mind as a jet fan. All you need is a copy of the old Falcon 4.0 (Steam, GoG,...) and the mod (free) which is permanently being updated. Probably the best simulation of a battlefield around as it models both air & ground war in real time and lets you make your impact. DCS doesnt even come anywhere close to it in that regard.
+Bismarck It's definitely the one to play for single player though, what with the dynamic campaign and varied theaters (Korea, Israel, Balkans). Of course it revolves around the F-16 and that can be a huge limiting factor (even though there are other jury-rigged flyable planes). The entry barrier for new players could a problem though, learning the sim takes a lot of reading and/or guide watching (edit: forgot to mention that setting up your controls is a major pain in the Arsch. Took me longer (it was tedious) than learning the cold start procedure of the Viper).
I never needed a stick for Cliffs of Dover or IL2. And it's fun to play alone. Not everybody is a hardcore sim gamer. You can get along perfectly with mouse and keyboard. May be different vs hardcore multiplayer gamers, but even in War Thunder Sim I've always been able to get along very well. Don't believe this "you need a stick" bullshit, you can have loads of fun without and still buy it in case you really want to invest into these games.
IMO you should notice that those simulators won't learn the players how to fly. They will learn the players how to control those aircrafts. But only RoF has something like the flight basics tutorial. IMO the only one PC flight simulator with flight school is the FSX right now.
DCS and Falcon BMS are the two main outstanding military sims (not sure what a "Germanic simulation" is supposed to be). But IL2 COD is rigged with bugs, they never addressed the many issues, so I'd stay away from this developer altogether (even Fusion Mod doesn't prevent the crashes and problems). They are also quite unrealistic and the system / flight modeling very basic. IMHO they don't even deserve a mention. No idea about RoF.
I will say that I have over 600h on DCS World and NEVER bought a joystick or a vr headset. It is very possible to play with keyboard and mouse, harder yes but once you set up you're controls its a breeze...
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I'd still say that IL-2 1946 is still perfectly viable for new players. Yes it is much older, but it offers over 200 different planes, covers most of the major fronts, is very modable, doesn't require too much hardware wise, and is dirt cheap. It is at least one of the safer bets.
I have to say, the moddability of IL-2 1946 is endless. Also, applying the mods correctly without crashing at the startup screen is an experience by itself. But damn, when it works, it's amazing!
@@Minecraftminer3000 i started modding it, al recomendation?
agree. the physics in the game were really good especially for the time, so although not as realistic as DCS or BoS it will give u a good idea of whether you would like to sim in the modern, more hardcore games. and yeah, for just few bucks.
i believe there's still at least 1 active 1946 server in hyperlobby, so even multiplayer may be an option there.
3 years later I just recently picked up IL2 1946 for $10 on steam and a $35 joystick that works great. Loving it.
I have an agreement with my girlfriend. If I work too long on a video, she is allowed to name it. Mistakes were made...
Hey, it's better than sleeping on the couch.
I think you got off lightly then.
Surprised IL-2 1946 wasn't mentioned. It's still a very playable sim.
+nick shale yeah. il2/1946 with something like the VP mod is a must have for me. you get excellent planes on all fronts of the war and you can get a dynamic campaign with it. For a couple of pounds (literally) you get a lot of content.
1 War Thunder Developer watched this video... ))))
Nice overview, although I would like to add that the "discounted" version of the IL-2 BoS deluxe edition only took it from 70 € to 50 € (and the regular version to 35, I think) when I bought it, nobody should expect to pick it up for 10-20 bucks any time soon; just sth. for people to keep in mind, these are specialist, niche games with a comparatively small player base, so they are definitely on the pricey side of things.
Also, one thing I would like to add for anyone who intends to fly multiplayer in IL-2, get yourself a rather thick skin. The hard core player base of simulation games like these tends to be sprinkled with a fair share of elitist cunts, I got quite a lot of abuse from some people on my first flights in multiplayer. Just don't let it get to you, you'll improve over time.
I'll be honest as well, War Thunder probably isn't a bad intro game to those who want to see if flight sims are for them, and quite frankly that's also the game that played a huge part in saving the flight sim genre. People start off in the easy modes, progress to 'simulation' mode, realize that it's not an overly realistic simulation but have some experience under their belt, and can move onto the games you listed.
Just food for thought.
don't for get IL 1946 as well
That is exactly how I got into DCS P-51D and IL-2 BOS - War Thunder with a HOTAS setup is not good, unless you play in a Full-Real Battle, or whatever they call it. And those are dead. Apparently everyone very quickly moves on to other more complete sims. And so... I did too.
I'm just staring to get comfortable enough to start jumping into multiplayer, I think.
Lord Gronor WT did something right with an arcade mode which takes into account energy states, damage and flight model rather than being Ace Combat/WofWarplanes
Ehh, that game feels awful. Somehow, it manages to take the worst parts of a simulator and amplify them so much that if they were my first experience I would think flying isn't fun at all, and worse I wouldn't even give simulators a try thinking they'd just be more hardcore. Now Rise of Flight on the other hand, that game is a dream to fly in. Great sense of speed, relatively forgiving while also teaching you the more complex mechanics like not ripping your wings off in a dive and having a sophisticated enough damage model that all those little things can go wrong. They just happen in a more intuitive way, and I think it's the sound design that is a big part of it.
Hah! I was about to say something about that. I started with Flight Simulator 2.0 (or some version around that) back in 1989. Throughout my teens, I wanted very badly to be a pilot. I studied the manuals necessary to get your private pilot's license, navigation, instrument flight rules, you name it.
Then I found out just how much that would cost.
So it's flight sims for me. :)
I started in DCS and mastered the A-10C, I'm glad I started in DCS because it made games like IL-2 easy because I didn't have to learn all the in cockpit switches and buttons.
il2 1946 is still enjoyable with some of the great mods available. For I think 2 bucks its worth it, especially if you like long single player campaigns in a lot of various planes.
Il2 1946 is what got me into flight sims years ago.
Although I would argue that the price of the actual sim isn't that important when you look at a fully decked out flight sims periphery layout, with HOTAS, rudder, head tracker and the mandatory tablet for checklist.
Especially the purchase of a TrackIR bumped my enjoyment of the genre from 'Pretty neat' to 'great'. Now, if VR headsets would just be high resulution enough...
The only thing you'd probably need for il2 1946 is a joystick, with 4 buttons and a head switch. Pretty cheap to get into.
I got so many hours of enjoyment out of all the old IL-2 games and all I had was 5:4 monitor and 9€ joystick, great sim for beginners, the campaigns are a lot of fun and you can run the sim on an average microwave.
Head switch? D*mn, WTF is this?
1946 is one of the all time greats. The constantly updated mods are a huge draw, even the base game has a huge selection of planes
I would definitely have added IL-2: 1946, which has Forgotten Battles and Pacific Fighters combined with it now, rather than Cliffs of Dover which is limited to the Battle of Britain. However, with the new Team Fusion "Blitz Edition" release, Cliffs of Dover IS one sweet looking sim, now. I hope they will be doing the same thing to 1946. >fingers crossed
Well the main aspect il2 1946 is lacking is multicore support and memory restrictions. It would be nice if they could change it to 64bit for the latter reason so it can soak up 16 GB of ram for example.
Also the way it is implemented right now I feel like you can spawn too few planes for one side. I'd like to have a full war going on around me and I just fly my mission in it seeing dogfights at the horizon or industrial centers being bombed.
There are some multiplayer servers that simulate dynamic wars but they are restricted by the same limits you have in singleplayer as well.
The clouds could use some overhaul too. I really dislike that they are turning with my plane. Especially with the high res mod clouds it becomes worse. Maybe there's a fix for it but I haven't found it yet.
Still I really love those highly detailed community made maps where you have the opportunity to create some great alternative history campaigns. I for example made two versions of a campaign based around operation sealion. In part one you play the British and in part two the German forces with multiple different roles to fly in (I even made a bonus mission where you have to land a Me321 close to the city of Dover in a night setting)
Years ago I played 'European Air War' by MicroProse.
Very easy learning curve, and lots of fun.
great game. still have the disk but my computer will not play it
Best Flightsim:
Jets: DCS
WW2: IL2-BoX
WW1: Rise of flight.
Best Hotas:
Cheap / Value: TM T16000m + FCS Throttle
Premium: TM Warthog + Throttle
Enthusiast: Virpil T50 Stick / VKB Stick + Virpil throttle.
What about Saitek / Madcatz / Logitech? Stay away, there are serious quality issues and these sticks break often. Do yourself a favour and buy just once.
Pedals:
Cheap (really, not too much value): TM T.Flight Ruder Pedals (TFRP)
Value / Premium: MFG Crosswind Pedals
Enthusiast: Thrustmaster Pendular Ruder (TPR)
Headtracker - TrackIR.
Goggles: Oculus Rift / HTV Vive / Pixmax 5K
what joystick do you use?
But seriously... What joystick do you use?
Troll... :)
wollt ihr den totalen Witz?
Ja, ich frage mich ...
Der Sheriff CONTROL COLLOM PLEASE, NOT JOY STICK, A JOYSTICK IS YOUR anu BUT ITS CONTROL COLLOM!
nice one! I like the symbols :)
I 'tried' :D
I liked them and I will "steal" the one for complicated I guess.
+Military History Visualized wow didin't knew you and bismarck are friends ,btw love ur vids
A German and an Austrian being friends... what could possibly go wrong ;) thank you!
+Military History Visualized For security reasons Bismarck has already left the country and went into exile, just in case you take over in Germany.
Very good guide. The four sims you posted are excellent and are for sure the cutting edge right now. Good job discussing the relative good and bad parts of the games. Couple of things.
I really like the discussion about the time and effort needed to be good at these games. These are not games for people that are pressed for time or can't sit still for any length of time. When I was editor at SimHq I had a lot of extra time to spend on games like European Air War, IL2, and Jane's WW2 Fighters but as I have aged I have found much less time to enjoy the sims you listed above. I have all four, and fly them (as well as Aces High) from time to time but my days as an experten are long gone. These take dedication, time and patience. This is especially true when you venture online. Newbies will find themselves feeling like cannon fodder the first few times they try flying against some of the more experienced pilots. I get frustrated when I log on to something like Aces High, take off in a Spit and get blasted in my first encounter. I don't have the time or patience I used to have back when I was in my 20s and 30s so I often swear a lot and then put the stick down.
Speaking of sticks, this is probably something you should have mentioned more, the cost. None of the games you listed will run well on the minimum specs provided by the game producer. In fact, ignore them all together and if your computer doesn't approach the recommended specs I would suggest an easier sim on your computer like IL2:1946. This game is older, actually the engine dates to 2001 and I flew a pre-release version a year earlier but the game still holds up relatively well and runs on most computers today. I agree that a joystick is a must but for games like DCS you really need a HOTAS (hand on stick and throttle for those that don't know the jargon) to get the most out of the game. A track IR adds immersion and a good set of rudder pedals are important although some of newer HOTAS setups have a twist joystick feature that can be used instead of rudder pedals.
I really enjoy your videos, they make my evening. I love you you put the sims in the game to add to the enjoyment. Keep up the good work.
Tom 'Wklink' Cofield, feature editor (retired) SimHq.com
"Simulations don't offer much in the way of single-player experience". Let me be the pedantic (and nostalgic) Kraut here when I point out the fact that this is not a drawback inherent to the simulation genre. Or at least it didn't used to be.
Used to be that you would get sims that offered both high levels of fidelity and realism (for their time) *plus* motivating and interesting single-player modes. Mostly in the days before multiplayer became a big thing for any type of PC-game. Anyone remember "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe", "Their Finest Hour", "Falcon 3 & 4" or the "Aces"-series by Dynamix?
It's kinda sad that the genre has regressed in this department over the past 10 or 15 years. While we do have much more detailed and sophisticated depiction of aircraft, their systems and flying per se, the "game"-aspect of sims has been left by the wayside. All the titles mentioned in this video offer next to nothing outside of multiplayer. Even the ancient "Red Baron" or "Aces of the Pacific" had better single player modes and campaigns, while BoS for example only throws one generic mission after the other at you and the only way that game tries to keep your interest is by forcing you to "unlock" equipment and even paint-jobs.
And some of these sims would be *perfect* candidates for a dynamic campaign à la Falcon 4, simulating an ongoing conflict in real-time and putting the player either into the role of the "small cog in a large machine" or letting him steer the conflict on a strategic level. Especially DCS A10 or CoD would be great starting points for this. Plus a dynamic campaign could also be used in multiplayer-mode, letting more than one player join the conflict and fly missions or make tactical/strategic decisions. Ideally, such a campaign could draw in players who don't even want to fly, but who'd rather treat the game in question as a strategy game, letting them handle the planning while other players do the flying.
The problem here is that these simulators became so realistic that ai can not keep up. You either make them a piece of cake or impossible to beat as they are not adaptable to situations as players have. Dcs and RoF has pretty good single player campaigns. Do not also forget that these games are focused on being as realistic as possible and it can't be more realistic than fighting with and against real players as that is the real challenge.
1SaG Blazing Angels...
I was a great fan of SWotL. Bought many of the add-on aircraft. Learned the peculiarities of the AI pilots and became pretty much invincible in fighters. Didn't like the B-17, though.
The racing sim genre has the same problem. Single player sims just don't really exist anymore. Project Cars 2 is the best we have, and it isn't that great. If you want to race against someone but don't want a ruin someones day in multiplayer with noobish mistakes while you learn, you can't. The ai is always so bad, and bad in a very bizarre unrealistic way.
Aces of the Pacific was great in its' day. Aces over Europe was awesome also. The only real way to play though is online in Aces High or Warbirds. I got immersed in Air Warrior when it was on Gamestorm and while there was no campaign, there wre real challenging people. AI just can't compete with people, and WW2 flight sims have been doing what Call of Duty wishes it could do for a couple decades.
I think you could fit 1946 in there.
I bought "Rise of flight" some time ago on Steam, but never had the time to install it. Maybe one day i will find the time to give it a try.
Years back i loved to play Il-2 Forgotten Battles and Pacific Fighters. Even many more years back i played "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe" and "Janes WWII Fighters".
RoF is awesome. I played it intensively some years ago but don‘t have time for it now. Bismarck‘s Vids made me yearn for getting back into it.
For me, if you are new to this genre and wanna simply get good or have fun, IL2 1946 is the one. Despite it being the oldest, hence lacking graphics, it is famous for having the most ww2 content(aircraft) while being cheap on steam and easily able to run in almost any machine. To me it's a must, and an all time favourite.
Just adding: The 24/7 dynamic online campaign "Storm of War" for Cliffs of Dover has just recently started into its 4th iteration. It's by far the most faithful multiplayer recreation of the Battle of Britain and adds elements of supply, attrition and strategic objectives to the standard multiplayer experience.
Please do a revised edition of this video for newbies wanting to get into this genre in year 2020 or so !!!!!!
Howdy - I would like to add “Aces High” combat flight sim to the list. I first flew in “Fighter Ace” through the the basic, advanced and then the “Realistic” arenas. I then spent a number of years flying “War Birds,” and finally “Aces High.” I have been flying “Aces High” for the last 5 or so years. (most folks see the title and think that it is a card game,) So far it is the only combat flight sim that, from my experience as a Private Pilot, has realistic flight physics. Each aircraft is distinctly different and none have the kind of “bouncy” flight physics that I have encountered in some other flight sims. Download and practice arenas are free, but if one chooses to fly on line the cost is $14.95 USD / month. There is but one server for on-line flying which I can say is up up 24/7/365. What really impressed me was the support they provide. Any time I have called they have answered in about 3 rings and they have been most helpful over the years. I must add that I am not associated with AH in any way, and even though I have flown in AH for years I still get “smoked” more times as not. Oh, and AH also has a bunch of GVs as well. (Tanks, anti-aircraft an troop carrying ground vehicles.)
ATTENTION: Team Fusion moved over to steam, accesable trough the beta tab
And that folks is how a review should be done. Very well done.
Really bums me that IL-2 became two separate games. It was nice in 1946 how you got all fronts/planes in one game
TheJacobShapiro in perfectly fine with DLC. What I will not tolerate is micro transactions and loot boxes
Not to mention something over 100 reliable planes, and about 5x that in AI.
Thats because they were not developed by same company (just same publisher). So CLOD is based on different flight engine to BOx. CLOD blitz is (vastly improved) by team fusion (community developed) patches. People often complain about this, but 1946 is a very old game now. Cost is always based on sales vs development cost. And BOx (games) has had considerable more development than 1946 (and its still being expanded), its also not a AAA title, they are niche titles. BOx has a vastly more complex flight model, much more focus is on vehicle modeling, damage models, physics skins etc etc (time is money). They are worlds apart, and not really comparable.
IMHO if your are unsure what to get go for 1946 then CLOD 1st . they will give you a idea for what sims are and they are very cheap to buy games. (also CLOD is closer in design to BOx and DCS than 1946 is). 1946 had great single player side, and easier learn curve.
Good point at the start of video, I neglect how hard flight sims are sometimes. I've been playing them on and off since I was about 8. But I was drawn along by pure passion for aviation.
Missed out Wings over Flanders Fields a real single player dynamic campaign in WW1. I have all the above sims and none get near WoFF for depth or immersion considering its single player it kicks all the above into touch
All the information we need to make a decision about which game to purchase. Very efficient!
I started out on DCS ages ago and was never too sure on how other sims were good t osee that DCS is pretty high on the list for realism.
I wouldn't say CloD has a small community; the ATAG server regularly gets up to 60 players at peak hour and ACG runs weekly historic campaigns with 170 members. I haven't seen anything close on BoS or DCS.
84 players on WoL and up to 40-60 plyers on DED servers per day peak hours.
That's still less than what the CloD community brings to the table.
As you said youself, ATAG brings around 60 at peak hours, while BoS beats that double at peak on multiple servers (WoL - full (84), DED (x2) - med to full). If on specific special days CloD has more, than that is not statisically relevant.
Of course the collective of BoS servers will beat the ATAG server. Including the other servers and smaller communities of CloD, the 'daily' players of BoS and CloD are about the same.
The ACG run campaign is relevant because it provides a community for players who want a more realistic and historic experience compared to the continuous running servers. At 170 members, it is hardly statistically irrelevant and it is not just a 'once a week' event. Quite simply, if you're a player who prefers a large, historical multiplayer campaign, there currently is no option for that outside of CloD.
Let me be clear that I'm not trying to argue which community is better or larger than another, I just find it strange that you'd call the CloD community small when there are so many people playing it and there is more variety to suit an individual's preference.
Fuck yea homie, you tell'em!
Great list! These are the very best modern titles. One sim to note for anyone looking to get into simming is IL-2 1946 which is the ultimate and fully refined version and compilation of the original IL-2 game along with its many expansions. It's very cheap on steam and with some config folder tweaks and some mods from the vast and active modding communities, it can be competitive with modern flight sims like the ones mentioned here.
Will check it out thank you.
Just to add an update to this, you can now use the "Beta Opt-in" option on Steam to auto-download the mod for CoD, as it has semi-official status from the developer.
I saw two seconds of that IL2:CloD footage and thought "is that Karaya?", then noticed the text in the bottom right.
He is an awesome pilot, and good gunner, aswell as pretty funny in conversation, but he is a bitch as flight lead, because he´s not used to it. He´ll see something and just poof, he´s gone, usually getting 3 or 4 shoot downs before you link up with him again
I love these video's the title is perfect btw I think teh Idea of "the order of the Kraut" should be an ongoing joke.
I am so glad to hear that IL 2 Cliffs of Dover has a mod to make it better I have IL2 BoS and BoM and 1946 and RoF I personally think they are great games Keep up teh great work and my Grandfather shall give you an Iron cross
(cuz grandad is general from WW2 and foot soldier from WW1)
I flew IL2 -1946 many years ago, then tried Rise of Flight but my game of choice is DCS. Personally, I put accurate flight model of planes and complexity as a top priority. Keeps my brain working. Multiplayer is enjoyable experience.
Dcs WW2 titles are easy to learn as far as the startup and controls are concerned. Nothing like the A10 or Blackshark. Mastering takeoffs, landings, and combat depend on the player but offer a great sense of satisfaction when you pull it all together.
Btw I would say that Cliffs of Dover is slightly more difficult to get into than BoS simply because system & engine modelling is more complex. Currently it's on sale for 5€ so not much of a financial risk involved. Also steam refunds are a thing if one should happen to not like it at all for whatever reason.
Haven't purchased BoS yet, but I recently started CLoD. It seems intimidating at first, but luckily a few older players guided me through all the control set-ups and everything that one needs to know and it's been a walk through the park ever since. I have even scored 15 kills the previous month ...in 103 sorties!
Good to hear, sounds like another happy pilot who's not regretted the purchase ^^
Would you say that the modelling in Cliffs of Dover with it's clickable cockpit is similar to the one found in DCS? For example if a DCS: Bf-109 E4 comes out, would it be the same as in Cliffs of Dover ?
A DCS 109E-4 would be more detailed in its modelling of the clickable cockpit & systems but that's to be expected of a study sim that focuses on singly released aircraft and which does not give a damn about coherent theatres or conflicts.
JG4_Karaya Couldn't have regretted it even if I didn't like it at all. The purchase cost me 3 euros (and 30 minutes of my time if you count TF mod installs)! Your videos are very good by the way. Ich kann also mein Hörverstehen üben. 2 in 1!
aaaand...falcon4 bms 4.33 update 1 !!!!!!
If you're new, that thing is riddiculously difficult to get into. I would definitely reccomend spending some money at some point on either Flaming Cliffs 3 to get used to how 4th gen fighters are supposed to be employed, or the A-10C to get used to full system simulation in the much more user-friendly environment DCS.
It's also riddiculously true to life. I love it.
Back in the late 80s and early 90s when I used an Amiga 2000, I had a flight SIM called "Overlord" where the campaign went from Jan to June of 44, and you were tasked with preparing the way for the Invasion of Normandy . You could fly a Mk IX Spitfire, Typhoon, Mosquito or Mustang II, all in RAF colours. Or as a Luftwafffe Pilot you could fly a Bf109G. The Fw 190A-8 was, sadly, AI only, as were Ju 88s and Do 217Es. The BIG thing was that it innovated head tracking. The best mission set was V1 hunting in an FB VI Mosquito. And I often wish it had been ported to PC.....
I've put so much money into flight sims over the years. Just for the controls, I started with a Logitech Attack 3 (gift), then bought the Saitek X-52 (from a friend for $70 USD), now I have the Thrustmaster Warthog (300 USD on sale new). Not to mention the CH Products Pro Pedals and TrackIR 4.
Pleasantly surprised after taking a break from Cliffs of Dover and reinstalling it I found there was none of the downloading of patches anymore it's just one click and its done via steam ))
Excellent buyers guide.
Yeah, but the pride of being a DCS pilot over other Sims :D
I know you're all about *combat* simulators and all, but there's also several excellent sims for non-combat flight. The first and foremost of course, being Microsoft Flight Simulator. Another great one is Condor Soaring, which my local glider club actually recommends, in spite of the fact that the software is now quite old.
But really, these sims run so much smoother on modern hardware anyway. ;)
Lord only knows how many hours I have on IL-2 Sturmovik, '46. Played on the most basic computers starting around 2008. Being poor, I wait for trickle down technology & have just recently, finally, purchased a used, gaming computer. I've yet to use it but winter is coming. BoS, Rise of Flight, CoD, are my objectives, probably starting with BoS, namely because one can still get it on a CD-ROM. I'm perfectly content to play against AI, but have experienced limited on line play in the past with '46, & enjoyed that as well.
Welp. Thank you. This cleared up a long held confusion : there is an after IL-2 1946 and just to be super-confusing, it's still called IL-2 something-something...
Now all I have to do is purchase a real pc. Haven't played a ww2 sim since Microsoft Combat Flight Sim 2! That was a great one for its time but an upgrade is certainly in order. Thanks for another great video.
What you must keep in mind, is that these simulations will also teach you a basic understanding of mechanics, physics, planning, problem solving and emergency reactions applicable to real life. Also these simulators will leave you much more satisfied then your your typical instant gratification game.
@Military Aviation History: 1:40 Perfekt
Edit: 5:16 Krank!
Edit Edit: 6:51 Wundervoll!
This guy sounds just like 'Sheriff's Sim shack'. Maybe it's the German accent, or maybe they are the same dude.
Fighter Squadron - Screamin' Demons Over Europe
Aces High should definitely be on this list, especially for players looking for multiplayer during US prime time.
Love your work Bismark. You are responsible for my new found love of sims. IL2 and DCS are my new favourite games.
Have you had a look at Combat Air Patrol 2? It's a new game on Steam, flying the Harrier. It's a nice 'entry' level game to sims - very forgiving on my noobness.
Thanks again
DCS is luckily trial, easy to find if it's go or no-go, there's definitely a community there, both for PvP and PvE Coop missions, and people will help you out, provided you show some common courtesy of course.
CloD has much more difficult controls than BoX I feel, whereas in BoX you dont click any buttons in the cockpit and just click E and open radiator etc, off you go pretty much.
The way I see it, BoX is purchase, watch a youtube video, hit a few buttons and fly. CloD.. not so much.
BUT, CloD Blitz, the revival, is a good purchase at the current price and holds great promise for future development of an awesome simulator engine, also they have a good tight-knit community that will help you out, again, common courtesy is a must here, none of that "ah i cant do 360 no-scope on the super quick here f*ck you" and if that's your thing = no.
Rise of Flight received botched Flight Model's in December 2014 (we call this the dreaded 2015 FM's, FM's > Flight Model's = How the planes handle, and right now they handle unhistorically) then the Developers locked the door and threw the key away, they didn't even make the pre 2015 FM's optional for servers or single player.
What those FM's did was take away individual characteristics most of the planes had and made it about who has Force Feedback (avoid stall, perfect flying) and not (basically you have to be lucky), and fixed two of them, Pfalz D.III which could dive infinitely and climbed too well, is now far more docile, and Nieuport 17 (which kept spinning out).
It has been unplayable ever since, the only ones left are mostly the ones (and we KNOW who they are) who lobbied for the FM's, using inaccurate information and let feelings get in the way, just so they could get their perfect little planes, whilst the actual core players up and left between 2014 and 2016 (they gave it a chance) and start the game (not sim, at this point) now and then.
I keep playing it because, what other online WW1 sims do we have?
And the reason I'm not recommending Flying Circus (Rise of Flight remake in the IL-2 BoX engine which is a modified RoF engine with DX12 and VR) is because we have no guarantee that what happened to RoF (botched FM's at the very last minute before they left it to rot), won't happen there, all though anPetrovich, one of the developers, has basically promised it won't, right now it's in early access and basically it's 4 RoF planes and a few skins ported into the BoX engine so far.
Nothing beats CloD for graphic quality of aircraft and lighting. With TF mod, naturally.
One year later, look at DCS 2.2 screenshots.
Hi Bismarck, I need to mention il-2 1946 and all Mods.. Nice Video DFriend
I hope I'm not speaking out of context in terms of simulations vs games, but I'd received a package from a friend who'd found a clearance deal on Activision's "Apache Air Assault". My point in even mentioning this game is that there's probably a ton of overhead available; it's already a superb flightsim experience without bringing my Nvidea GTX 970 to its knees---as DCS World sure can even on really low settings. They could AT LEAST make the indicators and gauges reflect "reality".
I've also wondered why there are few to none helicopter sims or near-sims available for Playstation and/or Android. With all the horsepower is it maybe a deficit in available controller settings?
You mentioned online/multiplayer....... another flightsim-capable platform exists in Battlefield 3 and 4, at least in helicopters. I"ve often wondered why they don't take a slice of Dice and dedicate development of a heli sim....... knowing nothing about development of sim/game development I"m curious if there's actually a "plugin" layer to embed a 3rd party aeronautical package into whatever game-type application they're creating?
thanks for the overview
I would add IL-2 1946 with either the VP mod pack or B.A.T. Modpack. I still play this quite often, it can't be beat for campaign variety, amount of flyable planes and variety of maps and environments. ☺️
20 years ago I played Tanarus. Easy to play, hard to master. Wish it was still around. RIP Tanarus
What Joystick do you use? Well, you brought it up!
just got Thrustmaster T.16000m pack and bought DCS FA-18C, the learning curve is steep, 6 hrs in atm and still doing same training over and over, greate game for VR.
I got il-2 BoS for 4€ on steam a while back. I currently don't have the time nor a joystick but I definetly will in summer sooooo absolutely worth the buy :DDD
"Rise of Flight" is 1914-198, not 1916. Been playing since it first took flight and have been through the whole development process right up to the realisation of a Pilot Career. I'd choose this over DCS any day of the week, and the forthcoming Microprose titles as well.
The segment on DCS is well-said....... there's a few widely-acknowledged issues, such as the stripped cockpits of certain models...... by "stripped" I mean the cockpits are static; in A-10c and Ka-50 Blackshark 2 the cockpit functions are...... close to complete in terms of functioning knobs and switches, while in other units there's no mouse use at all, save for head motion.
I'm in a toss-up situation with F-18 vs F-14, but one question I've had is whether 3rd-party cockpit software allows one to fill cockpits with functional knobs and switches?
good show....thanks
FC3 gives a new user a chance to play the game before diving in with a full fidelity model -- I think they're a perfect next step to the SU-25T that you get for free.
Would I enjoy a flight sim? I enjoyed X-Com: Interceptor. I used a joystick with my left hand, and worked a mouse as trim tabs, with my right. My Dad was a jet fighter pilot, so I've had a flight sim in my head, most of my life. :D I'm going to show this video to friends at the Hack RVA workshop club, where they have some very fancy hand flight controls. They prefer space flight, but they might spring for rudder pedals.
Great video Bismarck, BTW BoS is in the current steam summer sale at 1/2 price, my wallet is now a little lighter.....
hum thanks for the advice...my wallet going to be a little ligther too!
bro, thanks for the first part, i have no interest in investing in games as in buy a joystick for flying or anything. you saved me time (potentially wallet too).
Air Warrior!! Full realism baby!!’ I miss that game!
As always, thank you Bizmark....
I play IL2 1946 with a keyboard, its horrible for actually hitting anything (be it other planes or ground targets) or flying smoothly but its fun to just fly and and mess around in it.
I have played a bit of IL2 1946 in the recent years (Single player and local MP). How long would it take to adapt to CoD/BoS? Time sadly is a critical factor for me, but I'd like to get into flight sims again.
War Thunder
Just a suggestion for someone who wants to ease into Flight sims
I just want to mention War Thunder (not as a great Sim) as a good way to work your way up to sim flight if you are unsure. You can start with mouse and keyboard, then get a flight stick if you like flying. You can also start in an arcade mode to get used to the ideas and concepts in flight. Then move to the (very slightly) more advanced Realistic mode. If you think you enjoy flying in realistic mode, but you hate that mouse aim is complacently overpowered (joystick players are at an extreme disadvantage in both arcade and realistic mode) you can start flying Sim. Sim mode in War Thunder is a very low end sim that can get you the basics for only the cost of your time. Also No Mouse aim is allowed in air sim. If you find that you don't want to put the effort into learning the sim mode you can simply go back to realistic and arcade. But if you out grow War Thunder Sim mode, you can move up to a more challenging and realistic simulator like the sims mentioned in the video.
war thunder is not what most would consider a sim. I would suggest to start with 1946 and or CLOD .they will give you a idea for what sims are and they are very cheap to buy games. (also CLOD is closer in design to BOx and DCS than 1946 is). 1946 had great single player side, and easier learn curve.
@@EpicNightCrawler the benefit of suggesting war thunder is that it is free and will give you enough of an idea as to wether you actually want to play flight simulators at all without the barrier to entry of a steep learning curve, requiring mods or buying extra equipment
@@themadhammer3305 yep. As long as people get its an arcade game. It wont intro much about a sim apart from similar looking there is a big difference
Rise of flight is better for this. Also free and engine is what il-2 great battles is based off . Though much improved
@@EpicNightCrawler have you ever played war thunder though ? Because the sim gamemode is far better than IL-2 1946 in terms of realism
Arma3 could be a decent starter and if it turns out you don't like flying you still have the ground content.
Arma 3 might be one of the worst flight sims you can get in terms of realism, and also it costs 30 € while war thunder with its much more accurate flight simulation is free
I played both and arma3 is way better, its more sim then war thunder. There are a lot of mods for arma3, that make things even more realistic.
@@asfdse9706 arma 3 is a really good game for combined arms, it's just that the plane flight models are absolute dogshit, you can't even rip flaps or gears ffs
I struggled with several flight programs. In every one of them, the joystick was horrible. The aircraft would start to tilt to one side of the other. I bought another joystick, same thing. I bought another.... After three programs and four joysticks, I don't play any of them anymore. Never found out the problem. My favorite game was "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe". Makes me sad that I cannot play these games. Oh well.
Hey Bismarck, Ich hatt auch ein Auge auf den Joystick geworfen den du nutzt, sag mal, wenn man kein Track IR hat, kann man sich mit diesem trotzdem ordentlich umschauen?
An updated version of this would be good, both CLOD and BOx have matured a lot since this was done. CLOD is now fully patched blitz version, so no complicated patching (on steam) and BOx now has a lot more content.
I would say BOS seems easier to play than CloD, especially that you have to know how to mod the game and that it has more airplanes that require quite demanding engine managment. But overall I agree :)
Do ANY of these games have any form of dynamic campaign? (other than Rise of Flight, as you mentioned I have no interest in WW1 planes) I remember playing Microsoft Combat Flight Sim 3 and the dynamic campaign/roleplaying made that game so much fun. Do these games have any kind of "goal" other than simply playing a simulator to shoot down other planes?
IL-2 BOS has added scripted campaigns which you can buy on the store. And IL-2 CLOD with the team fusion mod which adds a campaign which simulates the the battle of Britain apparently. I haven't tried out either but i'm sure they're good.
Really good guide !
I'm kinda surprise you didn't talk about War Thunder tho.. The Sim mode is excellent.
WAR THUNDER ISNT A SIM.
me buying cliffs of dover a minute before I see this video.
IL2 great battles is definitely worth it on sale!
I'm new to flight-sim community and i know that it was said in the beginning that u sould have a joystick for the "better experience" but as a starter can i play for example ił-2 1946 on mouse and keyboard?
no, you can't use mouse for flying and using keys is absolutely useless. buy an used joystick, it has to have twist axis otherwise your rudder will be uncontrollable. I bought logitech extreme 3d pro for 60zł and other than fixing one button ive had only positive experience
Still can't get my Cliffs of Dover to work. Help!
I remember playing the original Il-2 back in the day. So the original is effectively dead? Should I go play Battle of Stalingrad instead?
Lol, just got IL-2 for 16 bucks. Pretty frigin good. I primarily do the Career mode as I can't afford a joystick rn.
What about Il2 1946?
I know it's an old sim.
I tried war thunder and the aircraft did not fly as an aircraft should. Huge disappointment after years of playing CFS. Do these games fly realistically? Ie if you pull back on the stick the nose rises, etc?
Because you tried arcade and not simulator
Excellent video, informative indeed! 👍👌👏
I really enjoy your channel as I’ve been studying military aviation as a hobby since I was very young. Back then I also played a lot of flight simulation until I was fortunate enough to become a US Army aviator. Now, as a semi-retired civilian pilot, I decided to get back into flight simulation to pass the time when the real weather is too bad. Thanks for the great videos.
In your opinion, what's the most realistic between Battle of Stalingrad/Moscow/Kuban and Cliffs od Dover? I like very much the complex engine management of CoD, 'cause bring in a lot of immersion, but someone says that BoS has a better flight model. Looking at gameplays on youtube, BoS looks like a little bit "arcadish". :/
I know this is a older video but have you ever played a flight sim called aces high ? I used to play it it’s a ww2 centered game but last time I played it they added ww1 planes and they also have a limited amount of tanks and AA vehicals
This is very well done.
Bismarck - great video again. Btw. Gamepad, Keyboard + Mouse -- it works.
it works but it's not as nice as with a joystick
Ah! just the person. Works as in you can fly as well as a JS user & the JS enhances the exp or you CAN fly but JS is waaaaaay better? Had CliffsoD, IL-2 & BoS for a while but got rid of my stick in the meantime, now I fancy playing them again. Should I wait till I can grab another JS or have at it with mouse for the time being?
Why are you asking? You already own the games... go, try them without a joystick and let us know how it went! LOL
welchen stick benutzt du?
ich bin so lustig ^^
Red Baron 2 got me in to sims back in 1998
What do you think about IL2 1946?
You forgot Falcon BMS :) what is your opinion on that one? Or have you never flown it before? But I guess its not well fitted for a german WWII ace like you. BVR combat is a bit too difficult for me :P I prefer the guns on guns too.
Never flown it and overall I don't see it as a title to advertise to new people. Could be wrong on that one tho
BMS is definitely a sim to keep in mind as a jet fan. All you need is a copy of the old Falcon 4.0 (Steam, GoG,...) and the mod (free) which is permanently being updated. Probably the best simulation of a battlefield around as it models both air & ground war in real time and lets you make your impact. DCS doesnt even come anywhere close to it in that regard.
+Bismarck
It's definitely the one to play for single player though, what with the dynamic campaign and varied theaters (Korea, Israel, Balkans). Of course it revolves around the F-16 and that can be a huge limiting factor (even though there are other jury-rigged flyable planes).
The entry barrier for new players could a problem though, learning the sim takes a lot of reading and/or guide watching (edit: forgot to mention that setting up your controls is a major pain in the Arsch. Took me longer (it was tedious) than learning the cold start procedure of the Viper).
I never needed a stick for Cliffs of Dover or IL2. And it's fun to play alone. Not everybody is a hardcore sim gamer. You can get along perfectly with mouse and keyboard.
May be different vs hardcore multiplayer gamers, but even in War Thunder Sim I've always been able to get along very well.
Don't believe this "you need a stick" bullshit, you can have loads of fun without and still buy it in case you really want to invest into these games.
You probably should consider running an update to this video, as some things/issues you mentioned have changed in the last years.
IMO you should notice that those simulators won't learn the players how to fly. They will learn the players how to control those aircrafts. But only RoF has something like the flight basics tutorial. IMO the only one PC flight simulator with flight school is the FSX right now.
Great informative video. Thanks Bis :-)
DCS and Falcon BMS are the two main outstanding military sims (not sure what a "Germanic simulation" is supposed to be). But IL2 COD is rigged with bugs, they never addressed the many issues, so I'd stay away from this developer altogether (even Fusion Mod doesn't prevent the crashes and problems). They are also quite unrealistic and the system / flight modeling very basic. IMHO they don't even deserve a mention. No idea about RoF.
I will say that I have over 600h on DCS World and NEVER bought a joystick or a vr headset. It is very possible to play with keyboard and mouse, harder yes but once you set up you're controls its a breeze...
Great video thank you!