Very funny Bismarck... Literally just came off of IL2 and got shot down in my 110 by a friendly 109, then yelled at for being in a 110 like it's my fault he shot me. :)
Yeah, I know. I get yelled at a lot for daring to use mines in Heroes and Generals. I get why it is unpopular, but if the other side is the only side with tanks, they are pretty important if you aren't likely going to get close enough for a Panzerfaust (the problem is even worse if you have to find them on the map instead of owning them)! And, of course, even if you give due warning in the chat, too many drivers won't read it anyway.
Mako F7 lmao,better than one of friendly fire moments is when one of my teammates shot me down in a P-40C by a spitfire MKV.I kept screaming at him to stop and he only admitted his fault after shooting EVERY control surface off and knocking my engine out....
0:40 are those real posters? You can see in the "British Fighters" the Hurricane side profile is a Spitfire one, and the Spitfire one is actually a Bf-109!!!! Print edition fail? :S
This has always been something that has come very easy to me. I've always been good at noticing the differences in shapes of aircraft and I am quite proud of my ability to identify aircraft based on silhouettes.
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Having been subjected to my first friendly fire incident today I encourage us all to review our id methods. Thank you Bis for raising this topic. Rikiville out.
I never realized how much friendly fire there was for pilots due to just misinterpretations alone, thank you for this video, very informative for me indeed :)
Great video, I am new to IL2 BOS and have been struggling with ID F or F. The wing shapes are a good way, I have let several "bad guys" go because I didn't properly ID them until it was to late and I lost my firing position. Great work on this thank you!!
In war thunder tank sim I was in a panzer 3n and there was a German captured kv1 on our team. I was behind him and fired two heat rounds into his rear. Didn't kill him and he saw the funny side, but, friendly fire is very annoying
i know that feel. Once, on poland, i was siting in the middle of the road with my Tiger, and suddenly from my rear a KV-2 came up - KV-2 with red star. so i shot him and killed him. Guess what. it was captured KV-2 and that guy had the red star to confuse enemy. Luckily, other nation markings were disabled not long ago.
Saddam Hussein Best way to tell with German captured (In ground battles) is the Camo. As long as it is not the German Sherman or Finnish Kv-1, the Kv-1b, T-34, and Kv-2 all have a very distinctive Tan or Grey camo. Unless they use winter. Then they are being an asshole cause the markings can be extremely hard to notice first.
I once drove in SB with a Russian AA truck, found a Panther, shot him up like I was crazy...and then the server kicked me out, because it was a captured Panther and I killed him.
In my father's early years as an officer, he had the responsibility to train a FLAK section at his regiment, his sollution to the IFF issue was to buy as many plastic models of the different Aircraft types used by NATO and Warsaw pact countries as availiable along with the right Paints and then have the conscripts he trained assemble and paint the models as accurately as possible as extra evening duty, using recon photos from border patrol and tresspass deterrence intercepts as well as news photos and the box cover art. When the models were done, they fixed drinking straws to the backs of the planes and fitted them to pulley rigs in the celing of the gunnery training hall, so that the FLAK gunners and fire directors would have an as realistic training experience as possible. (This was back in the 70'ies)
Being a WW2 model kit aficionado really helps spot the type at an early stage. The real tricky part is knowing what to look for from the front as the top/side profile is usually the most revealing. You really need some insight when dealing with a head on view as there are so many minute details to be aware of and they all look so alike from the front.
I was in during the Reagan & Clinton *Cold War) era and we were given decks of playing cards that had aircraft and armored vehicle silhouettes. I still have a deck of each, and I'll bet you can find them easily on Ebay.
I was an avionics troop in that era (Broncos and Phantoms) and the IFF panel switch markings were sufficiently confusing that I've actually seen the fabled writeup by new pilots: "IFF does not work on OFF mode".
Very good analisys! Our men in battle during WWII had more going on than anyone in a sim, like their life was on the line. Being able to ID incoming aircraft could men the difference between victory or blowing your brother's out of the sky.
A while back, I visited an old german naval bunker. While there, I noticed some toy figurines of various ships on a pedestal next to a viewing port in the bunker. Turns out, they would place them on the ledge of the window, and that would give an apropriate outline of whichever ship it models, so they could identify the vessel
When the Americans were still using the P-51B version of the Mustang, the fighter pilots were rather careful at approaching friendly bombers (who they were supposed to escort) because without the bubble canopy that we know from the "D" model, a Mustang could easily be mistaken for a BF-109 by trigger happy, inexperienced gunners. While "friendly fire" is of course an absolute no-no in reality, it can be hilarious in games. As long as the opposition is AI controlled... First time I played "Gunship 2000," I noticed that unlike in the older, Commodore 64 "Gunship," the target camera didn't automatically list it as 'friend' or 'foe.' Being incredibly eager to fly this helicopter and shoot some enemy tanks, I didn't read the manual before my first flight. Spotted a convoy of armoured vehicles. Launched my guided missiles and was very pleased to see the vehicles light up one by one. Feeling rather good about myself, I flew back to base where I was informed that I had destroyed a friendly convoy. And in those days, graphics weren't good enough to ID a target confidently so sometimes you just popped up the chopper, checked if anyone was firing at you then dropped down and decided to attack or not. This was a rather trustworthy method. AI would never have friendly units fire at me. But it was rather dangerous of course.
The W.T.F method that you came up with is actually very similar to the one that is actually taught in the Royal Australian Air Force. In the RAAF we use: Wings Engine Tail Fuselage Undercarriage Special Features WETFUS is basically a expanded version of WTF.
I have seen on a ww2 doco that a BF109 pilot mistook a flight of early model P51's and tried to form up with them, he was very close to them when he realised his misidentification before quickly peeling off.
It also helps to setup your monitor correctly. Even the image of the most basic 130$ TFT can usually be improved by a great margin with calibrating especially contrast, brightness (no 100% is usually utter nonsense - its blinding) and visible color errors. Eizo monitortest is a good little offline tool for adjustments without the need for expensive special hard/software - it also lets you spot pixel errors. There are also websites where you can do a basic calibration.
Yeah, and if your monitor no longer calibrates well (for whatever reason, this old Vizio doesn't) You're probably due for a replacement. I've been due for a replacement for like... two years. XD Dark spots, light spots, low brightness performance so bad I'd bail out of my aircraft in WT every time a night map showed up.... Being near blind doesn't help me any.
Good Lord! I knew already much things about friend'o'foe self controlls and tests, but the theory like that should help alot for really new players in BoS.
A Question: In IL-2 Battle Of Stalingrad you find yourself flying a bomber on the Axis side on the Wings of Liberty server. You see two fighters approaching. How do you tell which one is friendly and which is enemy?? Answer: The fighter that doesn't show up will be friendly (as in no Axis fighters can be arsed to provide fighter escort to bombers!!).
ID is really a common problem. James Jabara, the first US jet ace (Korea - 15 kills), had such bad eyesight that he relied on his wingman to tell him if he was about to shoot down a good guy or a bad guy!The news letter of the US Air Force Fighter Weapons School back in the '70s, had a gun camera photograph on one of its covers of a fighter and asked you to identify the aircraft. The answers overwhelmingly said it was a MiG 17. It was actually an F-84F. This was a still photo, being studied at your leisure and they could still blow the id.
A couple of points . One, when trying to identify an aircraft . It is at a distance from you , in the air . Which is usually above , all you can see is a black outline, not colour . The second point the US air force had issued black plastic model aircraft , for identification practice . Maybe made from Bakelite ? When a kid I had one of a B17.
must admit, took me two goes to identify all the aircraft silhouettes in that section around 2:50 I16, the Fw190 and Mc202 were by far the easiest to identify for me
I'm not proud to admit it BUT I've miss identified P51s for Fw 190D's when flying my K4 in war thunder and had the nasty pleasure of clearing myself but i did manage it and ran back to base.
My grandpa’s old neighbor Roy Parssles (who also designed penn state’s logo) who passed away a few years ago did these identification drawings for the USA in ww2
It's very interesting. Though as a student pilot (not of military aircraft mind you) I should point out that no matter how good your computer, a flight simulator in most cases is akin to looking at the world through a telescope while having a major vision defect. Field of view is narrow, resolution is low. Sure, maybe if you have an array of 6, 24 inch monitors in front of you that are all 4k displays, then you MIGHT get reasonably close to reality for the distances to a typical PC monitor. Still, in civil aviation working out WHAT a plane is isn't that important of a skill. What IS important is seeing that it's there in the first place, and being able to judge it's trajectory so that you don't end up on a collision course. Glare is one of your biggest aids in this task. - something which is otherwise considered a nuisance. But a plane that catches the light in a certain way is a bright target. Yet often it's little more than a dot when you first spot it. If you had to work out what it was visually, you'd stand little chance at those kinds of distances. You'd have to be much closer.
I wouldn't say that all friendly fire were unrelated mistakes since we can see that when a new plane would be added we could see a lot of friendly fire upon it. The Typhoon when added fell to friendly fire a lot since it looked like fw190-a, that is why there was a yellow circle around the typhoon insignia.
This was a big problem for the Americans in Vietnam. They could not fire until they identified the other aircraft as enemy. This was especially hard because the Air Force and the Navy rarely cooperated with each other. This meant that the pilots were unable to use the primary weapon of the F-4, the long range air to air missiles very often. And the F-4 was not designed to use a gun.
It's interesting that you don't inlcude "behaviour" in your identification. I can often identify an aicraft in a simulator whilst it is still a single pixel, based on how it is behaving.
good thing Modern Jets have I.F.F.s mounted on them. but that really accentuates why pilots must have the Training on Identification of Aircraft,especially on Modern Era Aircraft. a F-15 and a MiG-31 at Distance can be seen as fairly equal, same for a Hellcat and a Zero without proper training. that may be part of the reason why Some Pilots used Flashy Designs on their planes even tho it was counter productive to camouflage propouses...
Lickily for me Il2 BoD has servers with navigation markimgs that tell you what plane you see. It takes away some realism, but for me as a beginer and having somehow bad eyesight this makes the game much more enjoyable.
Most Captured Units were used on Special Missions to Decept the ennemy... they were considered so Dangerous,only really trained Aces piloted them. USAF on the War for example (to my knowledge) only used Captured Equipment on Testing or in conjuction with strict escort of allied material, painted in an completly different collor to the ennemy (for example: USAF captured Stukas Were painted a Beige White in contrast to the Green from Luftwaffe).
"... Is never forgotten, and rarely forgiven" This is the main reason that I only play hard-core sims in single player. My eyesight is terrible. If I see a speck. I'm going to chase it just because my brain says 'oh look I see him! Chase Chase Shoot!' and by the time I'm close enough to realize my mistake, it's too late. It's a shame, because the few times I DO play in those modes (sans Warthunder with it's blue and red markers that make it easier for me), it's extremely rewarding to get a kill (though it's only happened once).
42 seconds in, the Supermarine Spitfire on the "PUBLIC WARNING" sheet is a picture of a Bf 109E, just look at the tail and the cowling, it isn't a spitfire. It's the exact same as the 109 on the "GERMAN" side of the sheet.
I wish we had an aircraft identification card for modern in-use jets. I tried finding one after I saw a fighter jet flying over my house, accompanying a passenger plane. So weird, cause that usually never happens. I wanted to find out what happened, maybe terrorists attacked or something, but there was nothing in the media and I couldn't quite figure flightrader24 out. So yeah, that would have been useful. I'm sure that it could have been a Swedish Saab JAS 39 Gripen, because it not only had the normal wings, but another tiny set in the front.
(Somewhat) amusing story: My grandfather with his flak crew was stationed in occupied France, and they shot down half a dozen allied aircraft, one of them, however, turned out to be German. The pilot managed to bail but his fighter was lost. I don't think they were punished too badly for it, so it must've indeed been more common than not.
Friendly fire is as much a problem as it was during WWII as it is in the modern day. Especially given the fact that the us has sold aircraft around the world during the Cold War era and now, with stealth becoming a factor, the designs tend to merge into the ultimate in similarity. We might be screwed the farther we go in this because form follows function!
I say, watching footages from Il-2: Sturmovik, and then comparing what I personally saw and tried in "Rise of Flight" - Is shooting down airplanes in WW2 simulators far easier than in WW1 simulators?
I don't rate the black and white "3 views" personally. I'm pretty good at aircraft recognition, I competed in events in the Air cadets but most aircraft look very different in the air. Colour is more underrated I would say, It was the only way for me to tell Tornado F3 from GR4, even though the F3 is longer, it would be impossible to notice on a flying aircraft, so the colour is the giveaway
Hello guys, Ive been looking to get into battle of Stalingrad for a while now but one thing that has confused me is the use of a throttle. I was looking to purchase a Thrustmaster t.16000m fcs but then realised that another product included a throttle I'm not really sure what the situation is with throttles. Can anybody help?
Coming from Six or Twelve Position the Radiators are also quite important Pieces. Germans don't have Belly Radiators except Mc.202, so if you have a Fuselage Radiator in Front of you, shoot.
I had a far easier time ID'ing planes in Rise Of Flight than Battle Of Stalingrad. Obviously the relative speeds is a factor, but I also think it's much more difficult to do in BoS when attempted a front or rear aspect on the single wing WW2 fighters. That's where the biggest problem lies for me. The bi-planes were much easier to ID in those circumstances.
Quite true. I spent more time in ROF multi-player than BoS so that's probably the reason for discrepancy. Despite the resolution & true 3D depth differences, getting used to spotting distant planes in these sims seems to be very similar to all the WWI pilot memoirs I've read. Stating that they were practically blind for the first couple weeks. That they didn't get their "pilot's eyes" until they had become accustomed to it. That same curve is there in digital sims, from what I can tell.
Hey mate, I play a game called War Thunder and it has a very realistic simulator mode, but the nations that are playable in the game have planes that were captured and lend-leased to the countries, my question to you is: How would I identify if the plane (or tank) in question is an ally or an enemy?
Communication is key. Any teammate flying a captured plane probably ought to make it known to their team. If you see a vehicle which may be captured, let your team know where you see it and ask if it's one of yours. If you don't get a clear answer, you can probably figure it out by their behaviour: If it's a bomber heading towards the enemy base, it's either on your side, or not an immediate threat, etc.
Hi Bismarck. Thanks alot for that video. Did you know where i can find a document with the plane silhouettes to print that out (BOS & BOM)? Iam really new to the game (well iam new to the complete flight sim genre ;-) and iam struggling alot to identify the aircrafts.
I might make the templates for this video available but for various reasons that will have to wait for a few weeks. Keep an eye on my Twitter/Facebook for news on it.
Bismarck thanks for your response. A few weeks are okay cause i cant get the track ir to work properly. 1,5 weeks now and iam going crazy so i will quit the game for a few days or weeks 😂
+McM Haufen0815 Have you checked whether you are getting any light disturbances? Mirrors, windows, reflective headphones, even glasses... those can throw off the TrackIR camera. Also, try to put it a bit further away from you.
+Bismarck yeah i checked that. i didnt see any weird things in the camera view. I cant go back with my head because iam sitting in a racing chair fitted in a cockpit. it is only one position that makes me mad. Ist einfacher auf Deutsch hehe. Wenn ich meine sechs checke und dabei den blick in richtung cockpitdach schweifen lasse (während eines loopings oder so) schnappt die Sicht ab einem gewissen Punkt wieder in die Mitte. Ich bin mir ziemlich sicher das es eine Einstellung einer Achse ist die mir einen Strich durch die Rechnung macht. Das blöde ist das War Thunder mir vom sound her keinen bock mehr macht seitdem ich BOS angezockt habe. 😁
Hey @Bismarck , do you know something about captured aircrafts & what they did to safe them against friendly-fire? I mean you cant inform every flak unit you'll fly over :/
Fly them in 'safe spaces', with special camo and sometimes escorted by friendlies. Obv. nearby flak units would be notified of the exact timing but it was rarely done near the front lines and more are aerodromes back home.
What if you notice a friendly going out o their way to attack another friendly? Is it better to disable the attacking friendly yourself on purpose to minimize damage, or just avoid shooting friendlies even if its going to cost the team more? Assuming virtual environment with no sanctions.
In my cavalry days us tankers would torment the scouts by deliberately misidentifying the M3 Bradleys as "BMPs" during Armored Fighting Vehicle Identification training.
You mean red and blue name tags don't appear over people?
xXmush manXx it really depends if it is a simulation war or an arcade war.
chris ferrin he was joking... I think
@@chrisferrin1311 mine still available in Realistic battle
War thunder....oof
Very funny Bismarck... Literally just came off of IL2 and got shot down in my 110 by a friendly 109, then yelled at for being in a 110 like it's my fault he shot me. :)
Hah, it happens. I also mistook a 110 for a Pe-2 some months ago, during a stream as well. Been clean since thent tho ;)
Yeah, I know. I get yelled at a lot for daring to use mines in Heroes and Generals. I get why it is unpopular, but if the other side is the only side with tanks, they are pretty important if you aren't likely going to get close enough for a Panzerfaust (the problem is even worse if you have to find them on the map instead of owning them)! And, of course, even if you give due warning in the chat, too many drivers won't read it anyway.
1 answer, how much popilation this game has? its twindling? it has tons of players?
Mako F7 lmao,better than one of friendly fire moments is when one of my teammates shot me down in a P-40C by a spitfire MKV.I kept screaming at him to stop and he only admitted his fault after shooting EVERY control surface off and knocking my engine out....
Identification guides for the aircraft should really be part of the game manual...
entropyembrace people don't use game manuals anymore, they just ask everything on multiplayer. like "how do I start my engine" (especially on RoF)
I looked in the manual for ID guides :(
Lopri :3 war thunder SB is awful compared to other flight sims.
last time it the plane silhouette was used as "game password"
You're talking back in the Janes era right there. I think RoF has them, though.
Student pilot:" Hey! I see a plane"
Instructor:"WTF!"
松浦龙马 ...
0:40 are those real posters? You can see in the "British Fighters" the Hurricane side profile is a Spitfire one, and the Spitfire one is actually a Bf-109!!!! Print edition fail? :S
This one you link me is indeed correct, but look the one in the video. It is clearly a 109 under the Spitfire and a Spitfire under the Hurricane
Shush, Super Etendard, don't ruin everything ;)
Just making use of your identifcation teachings herr Hydra commander! ^_^
Snatched victory from the jaws of defeat
I caught that too, it's obviously not a Spitfire
This has always been something that has come very easy to me. I've always been good at noticing the differences in shapes of aircraft and I am quite proud of my ability to identify aircraft based on silhouettes.
Happy New Year 2017! A plethora of things are going on at the moment and time is short in January. The next video will go over some new developments for Bismarck 2.0. Wondering what's going on? Then check out this post to know all the news in advance: facebook.com/notes/bis18marck70/2017-and-bismarck-20/1430358950370099
Bismarck - Military Aviation History.... I'm viewing this from 11 months in the future.....
Having been subjected to my first friendly fire incident today I encourage us all to review our id methods. Thank you Bis for raising this topic.
Rikiville out.
I never realized how much friendly fire there was for pilots due to just misinterpretations alone, thank you for this video, very informative for me indeed :)
0:46 i got the Japanese navy and Luftwaffe prints for my office for christmas, they look great!
Where you got them? are on sale or you printed them?
www.etsy.com/listing/196083783/ww2-vintage-style-plane-spotting-poster?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=japanese%20navy&ref=sr_gallery_12
Mr. Spoon thank you!
no problem, seems to be a nice guy who makes them. Put them in a frame and they look great !
Great video, I am new to IL2 BOS and have been struggling with ID F or F. The wing shapes are a good way, I have let several "bad guys" go because I didn't properly ID them until it was to late and I lost my firing position. Great work on this thank you!!
In war thunder tank sim I was in a panzer 3n and there was a German captured kv1 on our team. I was behind him and fired two heat rounds into his rear. Didn't kill him and he saw the funny side, but, friendly fire is very annoying
i know that feel. Once, on poland, i was siting in the middle of the road with my Tiger, and suddenly from my rear a KV-2 came up - KV-2 with red star. so i shot him and killed him.
Guess what.
it was captured KV-2 and that guy had the red star to confuse enemy. Luckily, other nation markings were disabled not long ago.
Saddam Hussein Best way to tell with German captured (In ground battles) is the Camo. As long as it is not the German Sherman or Finnish Kv-1, the Kv-1b, T-34, and Kv-2 all have a very distinctive Tan or Grey camo. Unless they use winter. Then they are being an asshole cause the markings can be extremely hard to notice first.
That happened to me, I don't think anyone should take capture vehicles into simulator, even if they warn about it.
I once drove in SB with a Russian AA truck, found a Panther, shot him up like I was crazy...and then the server kicked me out, because it was a captured Panther and I killed him.
In my father's early years as an officer, he had the responsibility to train a FLAK section at his regiment, his sollution to the IFF issue was to buy as many plastic models of the different Aircraft types used by NATO and Warsaw pact countries as availiable along with the right Paints and then have the conscripts he trained assemble and paint the models as accurately as possible as extra evening duty, using recon photos from border patrol and tresspass deterrence intercepts as well as news photos and the box cover art.
When the models were done, they fixed drinking straws to the backs of the planes and fitted them to pulley rigs in the celing of the gunnery training hall, so that the FLAK gunners and fire directors would have an as realistic training experience as possible.
(This was back in the 70'ies)
Being a WW2 model kit aficionado really helps spot the type at an early stage. The real tricky part is knowing what to look for from the front as the top/side profile is usually the most revealing. You really need some insight when dealing with a head on view as there are so many minute details to be aware of and they all look so alike from the front.
NATO teaches WEFT: Wings, Engine, Fuselage, Tail.; very similar to your method. Keep up the excellent content.
I was in during the Reagan & Clinton *Cold War) era and we were given decks of playing cards that had aircraft and armored vehicle silhouettes. I still have a deck of each, and I'll bet you can find them easily on Ebay.
... Really? Now I know what I'm going to go look for. Because that's kinda neat.
Playing Go-Fish with an armored battalion... do you have a Leopard 3?
Go fish
I was an avionics troop in that era (Broncos and Phantoms) and the IFF panel switch markings were sufficiently confusing that I've actually seen the fabled writeup by new pilots: "IFF does not work on OFF mode".
I heard some German ww2 manuals featured pics of scantily clad women to encourage people to read the manuals.
Very good analisys! Our men in battle during WWII had more going on than anyone in a sim, like their life was on the line. Being able to ID incoming aircraft could men the difference between victory or blowing your brother's out of the sky.
That was exactly the video i needed to see to improve. Thanks for the focus on BOS
Well done Bis, another spectacular example of gaming and history combined.....
Cheers ;)
this video would be very useful for people just starting simulators
A while back, I visited an old german naval bunker. While there, I noticed some toy figurines of various ships on a pedestal next to a viewing port in the bunker. Turns out, they would place them on the ledge of the window, and that would give an apropriate outline of whichever ship it models, so they could identify the vessel
When the Americans were still using the P-51B version of the Mustang, the fighter pilots were rather careful at approaching friendly bombers (who they were supposed to escort) because without the bubble canopy that we know from the "D" model, a Mustang could easily be mistaken for a BF-109 by trigger happy, inexperienced gunners. While "friendly fire" is of course an absolute no-no in reality, it can be hilarious in games. As long as the opposition is AI controlled... First time I played "Gunship 2000," I noticed that unlike in the older, Commodore 64 "Gunship," the target camera didn't automatically list it as 'friend' or 'foe.' Being incredibly eager to fly this helicopter and shoot some enemy tanks, I didn't read the manual before my first flight. Spotted a convoy of armoured vehicles. Launched my guided missiles and was very pleased to see the vehicles light up one by one. Feeling rather good about myself, I flew back to base where I was informed that I had destroyed a friendly convoy. And in those days, graphics weren't good enough to ID a target confidently so sometimes you just popped up the chopper, checked if anyone was firing at you then dropped down and decided to attack or not. This was a rather trustworthy method. AI would never have friendly units fire at me. But it was rather dangerous of course.
And the Hero of Soviet Union goes to....
the Luftwaffe Pilot...
Gotse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D
the God of Teamkilling!
At least the God of something
Exactly why i fly in 4K resolution, i can see those straight wings of a hurricane, and different radiator vents on a 109E and Spitfire (CLOD)
4k masterrace, uh ja \o/
Glad to have you back!
just having fun watching your videos...
@ 1:31 you might have misspoke. I think you meant "shapes are constant" ...
I bet others commented.
The W.T.F method that you came up with is actually very similar to the one that is actually taught in the Royal Australian Air Force.
In the RAAF we use:
Wings
Engine
Tail
Fuselage
Undercarriage
Special Features
WETFUS is basically a expanded version of WTF.
messerschmidt had the best looking planes, fromi the Bf109 to the Me 262. Absolutely gorgeous.
I have seen on a ww2 doco that a BF109 pilot mistook a flight of early model P51's and tried to form up with them, he was very close to them when he realised his misidentification before quickly peeling off.
It also helps to setup your monitor correctly. Even the image of the most basic 130$ TFT can usually be improved by a great margin with calibrating especially contrast, brightness (no 100% is usually utter nonsense - its blinding) and visible color errors. Eizo monitortest is a good little offline tool for adjustments without the need for expensive special hard/software - it also lets you spot pixel errors.
There are also websites where you can do a basic calibration.
+1
Yeah, and if your monitor no longer calibrates well (for whatever reason, this old Vizio doesn't) You're probably due for a replacement. I've been due for a replacement for like... two years. XD Dark spots, light spots, low brightness performance so bad I'd bail out of my aircraft in WT every time a night map showed up.... Being near blind doesn't help me any.
Good Lord! I knew already much things about friend'o'foe self controlls and tests, but the theory like that should help alot for really new players in BoS.
Cheers Richard ;)
Ve will get ze iron croz for zis
Danke schön :)
smash5760 RO2?
is that dutch?
I *love* aircraft ID. I've got like-- three sets of spotter cards here.
Thank you for this. Very helpful
Wonderful video, very detailed and undoubtedly helpful. Danke wie immer, halte die gute Arbeit!
The original also had an "E" (WEFT instead of WTF), standing for engine as mentioned in the video with inline and radial engines.
A Question: In IL-2 Battle Of Stalingrad you find yourself flying a bomber on the Axis side on the Wings of Liberty server. You see two fighters approaching. How do you tell which one is friendly and which is enemy??
Answer: The fighter that doesn't show up will be friendly (as in no Axis fighters can be arsed to provide fighter escort to bombers!!).
01:04 my mind instantly cast to a Major Preddy documentary.
the stuka at 2:56 made me lol
ID is really a common problem. James Jabara, the first US jet ace (Korea - 15 kills), had such bad eyesight that he relied on his wingman to tell him if he was about to shoot down a good guy or a bad guy!The news letter of the US Air Force Fighter Weapons School back in the '70s, had a gun camera photograph on one of its covers of a fighter and asked you to identify the aircraft. The answers overwhelmingly said it was a MiG 17. It was actually an F-84F. This was a still photo, being studied at your leisure and they could still blow the id.
WTF dude you are really good at this game...
A couple of points . One, when trying to identify an aircraft . It is at a distance from you , in the air . Which is usually above , all you can see is a black outline, not colour . The second point the US air force had issued black plastic model aircraft , for identification practice . Maybe made from Bakelite ? When a kid I had one of a B17.
I learned so much I am going to use this for il2 1946
damn! I got every plane right... even the italian one :-)
you have made great videos by the way!
must admit, took me two goes to identify all the aircraft silhouettes in that section around 2:50
I16, the Fw190 and Mc202 were by far the easiest to identify for me
Karelwolfpup I thought the mc was a bf109
I'm not proud to admit it BUT I've miss identified P51s for Fw 190D's when flying my K4 in war thunder and had the nasty pleasure of clearing myself but i did manage it and ran back to base.
Laggin Dragon Games P51s belly dips down and the nose goes up
•5stars • which ones? the As through Cs have a different profile when compared to D's (and onward).
Laggin Dragon Games how
Multiple times have I almost shot down BF109s because I thought they were P47s, no joke. I just like to blame it on my graphics card haha.
My grandpa’s old neighbor Roy Parssles (who also designed penn state’s logo) who passed away a few years ago did these identification drawings for the USA in ww2
o7 nice! was looking for this stuff
It's very interesting. Though as a student pilot (not of military aircraft mind you) I should point out that no matter how good your computer, a flight simulator in most cases is akin to looking at the world through a telescope while having a major vision defect.
Field of view is narrow, resolution is low. Sure, maybe if you have an array of 6, 24 inch monitors in front of you that are all 4k displays, then you MIGHT get reasonably close to reality for the distances to a typical PC monitor.
Still, in civil aviation working out WHAT a plane is isn't that important of a skill.
What IS important is seeing that it's there in the first place, and being able to judge it's trajectory so that you don't end up on a collision course.
Glare is one of your biggest aids in this task. - something which is otherwise considered a nuisance.
But a plane that catches the light in a certain way is a bright target.
Yet often it's little more than a dot when you first spot it.
If you had to work out what it was visually, you'd stand little chance at those kinds of distances.
You'd have to be much closer.
Thank you sir.
Wow, no dislikes on the video! Amazing!
I wouldn't say that all friendly fire were unrelated mistakes since we can see that when a new plane would be added we could see a lot of friendly fire upon it. The Typhoon when added fell to friendly fire a lot since it looked like fw190-a, that is why there was a yellow circle around the typhoon insignia.
First video to see 0 Dislikes. I like it.
Hans: I see an enemy plane
Eric: But thats one of our planes!
Hans: Ima fuckin shoot it down anyways
This was a big problem for the Americans in Vietnam. They could not fire until they identified the other aircraft as enemy. This was especially hard because the Air Force and the Navy rarely cooperated with each other.
This meant that the pilots were unable to use the primary weapon of the F-4, the long range air to air missiles very often. And the F-4 was not designed to use a gun.
The WTF Mefferd?
Haha great video
It's interesting that you don't inlcude "behaviour" in your identification.
I can often identify an aicraft in a simulator whilst it is still a single pixel, based on how it is behaving.
Awesome video!
good thing Modern Jets have I.F.F.s mounted on them. but that really accentuates why pilots must have the Training on Identification of Aircraft,especially on Modern Era Aircraft. a F-15 and a MiG-31 at Distance can be seen as fairly equal, same for a Hellcat and a Zero without proper training. that may be part of the reason why Some Pilots used Flashy Designs on their planes even tho it was counter productive to camouflage propouses...
Lickily for me Il2 BoD has servers with navigation markimgs that tell you what plane you see. It takes away some realism, but for me as a beginer and having somehow bad eyesight this makes the game much more enjoyable.
what about captured planes
Kushothe those are so rare it's not very relevant
Most Captured Units were used on Special Missions to Decept the ennemy... they were considered so Dangerous,only really trained Aces piloted them. USAF on the War for example (to my knowledge) only used Captured Equipment on Testing or in conjuction with strict escort of allied material, painted in an completly different collor to the ennemy (for example: USAF captured Stukas Were painted a Beige White in contrast to the Green from Luftwaffe).
I think the Russians had to replace there whole iff codes when a pilot defected (not defecated, that's a different story) with a Mig to japan!
Sehr gut Volksgenosse! Dieser Schulungsfilm ist fronttauglich!
"... Is never forgotten, and rarely forgiven"
This is the main reason that I only play hard-core sims in single player.
My eyesight is terrible. If I see a speck. I'm going to chase it just because my brain says 'oh look I see him! Chase Chase Shoot!' and by the time I'm close enough to realize my mistake, it's too late. It's a shame, because the few times I DO play in those modes (sans Warthunder with it's blue and red markers that make it easier for me), it's extremely rewarding to get a kill (though it's only happened once).
42 seconds in, the Supermarine Spitfire on the "PUBLIC WARNING" sheet is a picture of a Bf 109E, just look at the tail and the cowling, it isn't a spitfire. It's the exact same as the 109 on the "GERMAN" side of the sheet.
Sehr Gut vielen Dank!
Warthunder has taught me much..
I wish we had an aircraft identification card for modern in-use jets.
I tried finding one after I saw a fighter jet flying over my house, accompanying a passenger plane. So weird, cause that usually never happens.
I wanted to find out what happened, maybe terrorists attacked or something, but there was nothing in the media and I couldn't quite figure flightrader24 out.
So yeah, that would have been useful. I'm sure that it could have been a Swedish Saab JAS 39 Gripen, because it not only had the normal wings, but another tiny set in the front.
(Somewhat) amusing story: My grandfather with his flak crew was stationed in occupied France, and they shot down half a dozen allied aircraft, one of them, however, turned out to be German. The pilot managed to bail but his fighter was lost.
I don't think they were punished too badly for it, so it must've indeed been more common than not.
Aw jizz this is gonna be interesting.
Thank you #bismark For this PSA
Great video, Very clearly explained. Hopefully, this will result in less German bullets coming my way when I am in the 110 :)
Danke :) Let us hope so ^^
The Stuka at 2:55 lol
Was benutzt du um die Kamera im spiel so flüssig zu bewegen? :)
Friendly fire is as much a problem as it was during WWII as it is in the modern day. Especially given the fact that the us has sold aircraft around the world during the Cold War era and now, with stealth becoming a factor, the designs tend to merge into the ultimate in similarity. We might be screwed the farther we go in this because form follows function!
Thank you! I've recently bought Il2 and I am confused as hell to iff correctly.
You're very welcome, that's what it's made for
I could tell the MC 202 but I was betting on a Yak-7...
with the wings however the Mig was obvious :3
I say, watching footages from Il-2: Sturmovik, and then comparing what I personally saw and tried in "Rise of Flight" - Is shooting down airplanes in WW2 simulators far easier than in WW1 simulators?
I don't rate the black and white "3 views" personally. I'm pretty good at aircraft recognition, I competed in events in the Air cadets but most aircraft look very different in the air. Colour is more underrated I would say, It was the only way for me to tell Tornado F3 from GR4, even though the F3 is longer, it would be impossible to notice on a flying aircraft, so the colour is the giveaway
Very useful video, now I can stop shooting down airplanes. Maybe I should move away from the airport
do you use some sort of a headtracker?
What game do u use to make your videos
What is the simulator game shown being played?
I can identify Yaks because the position and shape of the cockpit just screams "I'm flyin' in style"
Hello guys, Ive been looking to get into battle of Stalingrad for a while now but one thing that has confused me is the use of a throttle. I was looking to purchase a Thrustmaster t.16000m fcs but then realised that another product included a throttle I'm not really sure what the situation is with throttles. Can anybody help?
Coming from Six or Twelve Position the Radiators are also quite important Pieces. Germans don't have Belly Radiators except Mc.202, so if you have a Fuselage Radiator in Front of you, shoot.
+1
I had a far easier time ID'ing planes in Rise Of Flight than Battle Of Stalingrad. Obviously the relative speeds is a factor, but I also think it's much more difficult to do in BoS when attempted a front or rear aspect on the single wing WW2 fighters. That's where the biggest problem lies for me. The bi-planes were much easier to ID in those circumstances.
Yes, I felt the same but now spotting in BoS is no problem no more. Practice I guess
Quite true. I spent more time in ROF multi-player than BoS so that's probably the reason for discrepancy. Despite the resolution & true 3D depth differences, getting used to spotting distant planes in these sims seems to be very similar to all the WWI pilot memoirs I've read. Stating that they were practically blind for the first couple weeks. That they didn't get their "pilot's eyes" until they had become accustomed to it. That same curve is there in digital sims, from what I can tell.
i could only tell the mc 202 at 5:00 bc of the offset nose!
thanks dude, i need better IFF lol
Hey mate, I play a game called War Thunder and it has a very realistic simulator mode, but the nations that are playable in the game have planes that were captured and lend-leased to the countries, my question to you is: How would I identify if the plane (or tank) in question is an ally or an enemy?
Communication is key. Any teammate flying a captured plane probably ought to make it known to their team. If you see a vehicle which may be captured, let your team know where you see it and ask if it's one of yours. If you don't get a clear answer, you can probably figure it out by their behaviour: If it's a bomber heading towards the enemy base, it's either on your side, or not an immediate threat, etc.
Whot about the front? How do u reconise It if enemy? (more then its flying towords u)
Hi Bismarck. Thanks alot for that video. Did you know where i can find a document with the plane silhouettes to print that out (BOS & BOM)? Iam really new to the game (well iam new to the complete flight sim genre ;-) and iam struggling alot to identify the aircrafts.
I might make the templates for this video available but for various reasons that will have to wait for a few weeks. Keep an eye on my Twitter/Facebook for news on it.
Bismarck thanks for your response. A few weeks are okay cause i cant get the track ir to work properly. 1,5 weeks now and iam going crazy so i will quit the game for a few days or weeks 😂
+McM Haufen0815 Have you checked whether you are getting any light disturbances? Mirrors, windows, reflective headphones, even glasses... those can throw off the TrackIR camera. Also, try to put it a bit further away from you.
+Bismarck yeah i checked that. i didnt see any weird things in the camera view. I cant go back with my head because iam sitting in a racing chair fitted in a cockpit. it is only one position that makes me mad. Ist einfacher auf Deutsch hehe. Wenn ich meine sechs checke und dabei den blick in richtung cockpitdach schweifen lasse (während eines loopings oder so) schnappt die Sicht ab einem gewissen Punkt wieder in die Mitte. Ich bin mir ziemlich sicher das es eine Einstellung einer Achse ist die mir einen Strich durch die Rechnung macht. Das blöde ist das War Thunder mir vom sound her keinen bock mehr macht seitdem ich BOS angezockt habe. 😁
Thank you Microsoft combat flight simulator for forcing me to learn plane profiles
Hey @Bismarck , do you know something about captured aircrafts & what they did to safe them against friendly-fire? I mean you cant inform every flak unit you'll fly over :/
Fly them in 'safe spaces', with special camo and sometimes escorted by friendlies. Obv. nearby flak units would be notified of the exact timing but it was rarely done near the front lines and more are aerodromes back home.
ok thx :)
What if you notice a friendly going out o their way to attack another friendly? Is it better to disable the attacking friendly yourself on purpose to minimize damage, or just avoid shooting friendlies even if its going to cost the team more?
Assuming virtual environment with no sanctions.
Just send a message in chat warning both.
In my cavalry days us tankers would torment the scouts by deliberately misidentifying the M3 Bradleys as "BMPs" during Armored Fighting Vehicle Identification training.
Was it a mig 3 and a c 205??
what game are you playing?
What is the name of the simulator you showed in this video?
Matt Gellespie il2
I have a # of WW2 US military recognition manuals. Sorry to say they are not in good shape but interesting.