Is An ELECTRIC Car Really Cheaper To Road Trip Than A HYBRID?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- ( tfl-studios.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts! Is it really that much cheaper to run a dedicated EV like the brand new Mini Cooper SE than even a fuel-sipping hybrid like the Toyota Prius? Tommy takes both on an extreme Colorado mountain range test to find out!
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Great video guys. I would like to see a 300 to 400 mile test using only public chargers to see how they fare on a longer road trip.
See “Out of Spec Reviews” and “Out of Spec Motoring.” They have all the content you could hope for on long road-tripping EVs.
@@ericanderson1753 thanks i do subscribe to them as well would like some other opinions on it as well.
For a 400 mile road trip it'll cost $25.61 in gas (Prius), $35.39 (Mini with public charging) and $12.87 (Mini with home charging). I got these numbers by scaling the ones shown in this video.
@@nejtube the prices would vary for each charger thou.
Tommy, You start the video with a rhetorical question asking whether the Hybrid is dead. Toyota sold over 583,000 Hybrids in the USA last year. If they could have made more, they certainly would have sold more.
They certainly are all in on their plan to continue selling hybrids
i'd buy a rav4 prime at msrp if i could.
I think you're missing the point of the question... Electric is supposed to be the way... I think if anything this is arguing the benefits of merging ICE and Electric considering they both use limited natural resources and aren't sustainable. (Referring to lithium)
@@ethanankrum4149 selling hybrids and alongside making EVs too
@@kacyharper8142 lol…. Toyota uses mostly nickel cadmium batteries
ev is a little cheaper but you arent sweating it out in the prius as to whether you are gonna make it or not
Why would you be sweating it out? There are plenty of places he could have charged on the way home, and gas cars can also run out of gas.
There's no way someone would buy that mini and expect it to run those driving conditions daily, a true test would be two cars with similar range.
@@AaronShegrud Gas cars have comfortable range, take 3 minutes to refuel, and there are fuel stations everywhere, completely unlike EVs and their charging system. Also, this was a long distance test, which people are interesting in because it relates to road trips. If I were taking a long trip, I'd much rather be in the Hybrid.
As for your point about expectations... Okay, what EV has 580 miles of range?
@@AaronShegrud
Yet, every single ICE vehicle is capable of doing it.
Are we supposed to have multiple Evs at home for different trips?
and have to worry about reliability in the Mini
@@AaronShegrud FROM MY HOME ITS 70 MI TO A CHARGER FROM 9200 FT IN THE SOUTHERN ROCKY MT GOOD DAY PS WE DONOT HAVE CITY POWER GENSET AND SOLAR
Thanks for the fueling cost comparison!! Did a little back of the envelope math to see what MPG from a gasoline car would be equivalent to the cost of fuel for the EV if done at Electrify Americas rapid charging rate only, like on a long road trip.
Estimated the EV’s fuel cost at $14.69 of all charging @ EA’s cost rate.
And that amount of money would have refueled a gasser at about 37.7 mpg.
So, public fast charging really cuts DEEP into the cost effectiveness of an EV, even one as efficient as the Mini-E IS!!
Thank goodness maintenance for the EV is less than the gasser!
Thanks for this math. Still, 37.7 mpg is nothing to sneeze at. And. while EA is less expensive that rip-off artists such as Blink, there are a fair number of Level 2 chargers that are cheaper or free. I regularly charge my C-MAX PHEV at a public charger at 12.2¢/kW.
In the almost 2 years I have had my i3 I have only had to charge away from my house once so the fast charge cost is not that much of an impact.
There's a few flaws with this TFL test methodology and it doesn't really paint a clear picture. Tommy glances over some of these points in minor detail, but I think it's worth looking at it in greater detail:
- First, the Mini EV is not very efficient, and has a low range. This is a city car through and through, and people who do road trips regularly will probably go with a Tesla, or something like a Bolt, Niro EV, ID.4, etc. It's a bit of a lopsided comparison since there more efficient EVs with much longer ranges, most long range EVs would do this trip without needing to stop.
- In very long range road trips (say, coast to coast) the EV will usually end the day at a Level 2 AC charger, which is VERY cheap, and thus will start the next day of driving with a $10 battery fill, which will cover much of that days driving.
It's a bit topsy-turvy and sort of depends what gas prices and DCFC prices are, but a very long coast-to-coast trip in a long range EV (say, Kia E-Niro) would cost about the same as a Prius Eco. In my last EV road trip I covered 1800 km (1200 miles) for about $80 CAD ($62 USD). 1800 km in a Prius Eco for the same trip would have cost me about $150 CAD (very high gas prices in BC). The thing that confuses the issue is I was able to get a lot of free charging - many Level 2 stations are complimentary or extremely cheap, and some of the DCFC stations were outright free. I'll be trading in my Kona Electric some time from now for an ID.4, and that'll have 3 years of free Electrify America charging. It's legitimately hard to predict what an EV road trip will cost because gas and charging prices fluctuate wildly between different regions, but I think the EVs have a slight edge if you're strategical about using Level 2 "destination" charging whenever possible. Occasionally you'll have the advantage of free charging - wheras I doubt there'll be many gas stations giving away free gas on a road trip.
@@0hypnotoad0 This is all good info. Here’s the thing. For EV adoption to happen broadly, without a government mandating it down the populations throat, infrastructure needs to be not only sufficient, but affordable. And at present, in the US, public Level 3 charging is neither plentiful (esp away from major highways) or cost effective for the consumer. They are either trying recoup their investment in the first year of service or simply profiteer on the limited access. NIETHER reason is forwarding of broader adoption of electric vehicles as a mainstream form of transportation.
37.7 MPH is my average mixed driving in my Yaris iA.
for me on a road trip, its not about the money spent on gas or charge.
Its the hassle of stopping every hour and wasting time in the Walmart parking lot.
I love TFLs Mini S E and TFLs New Cummins, all cars are cool in their own way
Sometime you should do that trip but do not make the gas vehicle wait for the electric to charge and see not only economy but which one can go over the mountain and back and how long the second one is behind the first.
most chargers have a timer that will tell u how long it took to charge the car. but i think the difference was about 20 min on a trip that probably took over 3h. but if i asked the last person who drove for 3h if they took a brake and how long it lasted, most will tell me they took at least a 10 min brake.
@@yvs6663 I used to drive a lot for work and a 4-6 hour drive was not unusual before taking a break. Driving to Florida for a family vacation I would try to drive 8 hours if the kids would sleep and I had a chance. Now older and back gets stiff 3-4 hours s a good break stop. But they are running over the mountain as a test so real life you are going to pick up a friend real life how long would it take to go there and how long would the electric car need to charge to do the trip.
@@badgerpa9 driving for 8h is hardly recommended by anyone but ok. anyways, u can use sites like abetterrouteplanner to get a good educated guess of how much longer it would take to do a trip using a specific EV. the mini used in this video might be capable of some longer trips but its hardly a go-to choice of vehicle for them. something like a Model 3 has similar highway efficency, more than double the range and 3x the average charging speed.
@@yvs6663 They have done vids with teslas before. They have 2 similar priced vehicles and it is a fair compare. Saying they need a specific ev for a test is ridiculous as they would not ever test some of the EVs on the market. That would be like saying they should have used a different truck when they compare trucks for towing, it is not which truck you think is best they are testing that vehicle.
@@badgerpa9 i didn't say the test was wrong. they weren't comparing trip duration and were quite transperent about the amount of energy they got from DC charging vs energy they got from home charging. i said the mini wouldn't be my first choice if i wanted an EV for longer trips.
The best compromise in my opinion is a plug in hybrid like I have. Almost totally electric around town and then gets decent MPG on road trips and can fill the tank quickly. We went to Dollywood in TN and they had chargers at the hotel. So even driving around after we got there it was mostly EV.
I completely agree with you! I have a RAV4 Prime and I get about 50 miles of EV range per charge, and I rarely use the engine except on longer trips. If I want more EV range on a longer trip I put it in charge mode on the interstate to be able to stay in EV mode in city traffic, which gives me even better efficiency. PHEV’s are the way to go in my opinion, and they offer the flexibility most Americans need.
Also, what about time? My time is valuable, and if I’m waiting 30-60 minutes at a DC fast charger in an EV I’m losing time I can’t get back. Even worse, charging at or a vacation destination takes significantly longer, so if I need additional range to run errands after getting to my destination I’m forced to wait a few hours on a level 1 or 2 charger in most residential areas. This is especially true if you rent a beach house that only has level 1 charging capabilities.
The biggest issue is that you used the wrong EV for the test. Any of the 200-mile plus ones would have been better for the test. And really, time to charge at work or home, which is where we mostly charge the EV, is not that much of an issue. I have solar as well. This also reduces the cost.
Yes and no it's the wrong one to compare with range but the right one to compare price wise. If they would have done a model 3 standard range it would be comparing a 46000 car to a 31000 car. A lot of fuel can be had for 15k
@@smiller225 I agree with you. One more factor: it is hardly a "road trip" if the trip is within the range of your battery. It is just a commute. I thing this was the perfect EV for that short a test. A better test would be to have a route that burns through 2 tanks on the hybrid and requires more than one charge on the EV. Then it would be a reasonable way to factor in opportunity cost from the time spent "refueling".
Yeah but they cost a lot more.
A better comparison would be a 2022 Nissan Leaf Plus which gets about 220 miles and after the tax credit is about $31K
Yeah and the 200mile plus ones are all 60k and up. That’s a good test. apples to gold plated apples. makes sense to me?
I still think a PHEV is the current ticket into the future as we transition. Use plug in most of the time and gas as a back up for road trips like this. Win win
The world still has oceans of oil waiting to be burned. Gas cars won’t be going away anytime soon. Hybrid cars are the only way to go right now.
Pick one or the other.
Hybrid is the worse of both worlds.
It’s oil or a nuclear power plant in your backyard take your pick. plug in hybrid is DUMB. All electric is a TOY. Canada trucker blockade would be sooo much fun with all electric trucks. Instead of gas cans they running extension chords. And carrying around GAS powered generators what a bunch of idiots!
@@Robert-cu9bm 150 mile range on this EV piece of crap doesn’t even make it up the mountain. HYBRID has like 500 miles left to go on the tank. After the whole trip. Sooo with your thinking we would all be broke down on the side of the road with your EV toy
@@JT_771 oh god here we go again with this global warming garbage drink some more of the koolaid they giving out. I have to give it to the climate idiots they finally got the brain dead to believe that burning oil is actually tied to the warming planet. Even tho planet has been warming for 10,000 years and has gone through the same cycles for millions of years. Ever been to Minnesota. near Alexandria there is a point where you can look out where the glaciers used to be. Not one ounce of oil had been burned and what happened to the glacier?
Really need to calculate the "time is money" aspect.. 4 hrs vs 5-10 minutes to fill up is a ridiculous difference, especially when taking a road trip. until you can recharge an ev in 20 min or less, they'll always be at a disadvantage. the "road trip" is what's really killing people's want to get an ev.. we like to travel in the US, plus it's a large area, unlike europe. imagine having to add 8 hours to your trip to charge your car on the way. that's another day of driving.. yea, it's cheaper, but if you have to stay another night somewhere, that cost goes out the window.. not to mention adding time adds food, possible shopping stops, etc, all adding more expenses.. for at home, around town where you can go all day and just charge at home overnight, ev's make perfect sense and are no-brainers. but until they figure out the long range and charging issues, most people will be hesitant and defiant to switching.. on that note, i think all vehicles should be hybrids, starting immediately.. obviously adds economy, would drastically reduce idling, and can you imagine how much nicer traffic jams and parking lots would be.. we need to do this sensibly, switching to electric gradually, working out the bugs, and not cold turkey..
Maybe relax and enjoy the trip. Take that extra day and smell the roses in places you'd normally just drive through.
In Europe, the whole time is money logic is an advantage of an EV. £10 to fill up instead of £50-80, and that will take 20-40 minutes. And considering people need to eat or go to the toilet every 4 hours, you’re likely only waiting 10-20 minutes for the car to charge. So unless you’re on a silly amount per hour, the EV is far better. In the UK, the highest mileage drivers drive teslas according to insurance companies
I agree with the time is money aspect. I recently bought a hyundai Ioniq 5 and it charges from 10%-80% in 18 minutes out on a roadtrip. By the time i factor in a bathroom stop and a lunch break it doesn't really add much additional time. Now if you are planning on roadtripping a lot then just buy a gas car for now. If you only go somewhere far once a month you can easily go EV if you want to.
You charge when you sleep
@@brandenflasch Unless you drive less than 250 miles per day that won't really help much. A few weeks ago I drove 1300 miles in 2 days. One night of charging leaves me 1100 miles of daytime charging... Night charging can help but doesn't do much to help a longer roadtrip with 8+ hours of driving per day.
Good stuff!
Our Prius *Prime* (the plug-in hybrid version of the Prius in your test) is an amazing-efficient car at 4.6 miles/KWh and 54MPG EPA (which is pretty accurate).
However, it’s worth pointing out that its MPG _drops rapidly_ above 65MPH, to the mid-40s at 75-80MPH, due to wind resistance (which is still pretty good for 75-80MPH!).
I hope that ev tech keeps coming along. If I lived and only drove in city an ev would be a good option but with the prius potential for 500+mile range on a single fill up, for anyone road tripping frequently I think the prius would be the option. The peace of mind knowing you don't need to worry about the long open stretches through the big states is a major selling point for a hybrid over an ev.
That's why I'm keeping my TDI Jetta. 600 miles on a tank of Diesel. No extra complications with hybrid systems.
The Chevy Volt was the best of both worlds. Maybe an improved and more affordable BMW i3.
Greetings tommy, for a bit fair math the cost of the charging plan should be added in. Pro rated of course.
Or as another option it would be useful to know the cost to someone without that plan.
Also it’s not a road trip unless you have to change/gas up away from home… that’s an opinion of course.
If you were doing a true “road trip” and only using charging stations, it would have been around $14 for the mini. 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Basically, you save fuck all. EVs are more expensive to buy and to fill up?? And the argument is you dont need the 2 yearly 50$ oil changes.
@@bmw803 Unless you only drive road trips, your cost will be much lower charging at home. Another advantage you can consider is that you leave with a "full tank" every day.
@@musicmakerman867 I have a 2015 VOLT, so definitely cheaper than gas if charged at home. On long trips I dont use chargers as it's cheaper with gas. Most of them ding you by time and GEN 1 Volt has a 3.3 KW charger. Not worth it, unless there's a free one at a dealer, park, etc.
@@bmw803 when your battery die and need replacement you will wish you spend $100 yearly on oil change than $10, 000-20, 000 in battery replacement every 10 years
@@trianggaindralukmana2184 Exactly!!! That's what I tell people. Save 100 bucks a year on Oil changes, but pay double for the car and god knows what else may go wrong with those electronics.
Evs might be cheaper to charge compared to gass but it would take a lot more time during a long road trip. Hybrid is the way to go for the next 10 years. Evs are on the right track but still have a long way to go to become efficient, afordable and faster charging
I think this test would be much more interesting with a vehicle that doesn't get great fuel economy. I think it would be really cool once the Lightning comes out to test vs a regular gas F150.
I am very much looking forward to this test even maybe vs they f150 hybrid
@@jimdye7431 Same, I want to see a comparison of Andre's F150 Hybrid versus an EV Truck like the Lightning or even the Rivian RT1.
If I heard this correctly, the Mini was unavailable for use for 5 hrs of total charging time vs. 5 minutes of refuel time for the Prius. For $2.48 savings, this is a no brainer.
in this video the cost difference is negligible, I would rather have the convenience of longer range and being able to get gas anywhere, saving time to get to my destination which saves money.
Love my 2018 Prius. Almost 59,000 miles and avg mpg over that is 52.6 mpg.
If my math is right, road trip charging that mini to full at an EA station would have been $14.69 or $4 more than the Prius. I think that is a more fair comparison if you're talking about road trips.
When you are charging the mini, the hybrid has still an almost full tank vs having to stop for an hour to charge assuming you can find a charger, needless to say you will get to your destination much faster and with no range anxiety so it may be worth the higher cost of gas and keep in mind gas and electric prices fluctuate.
You also left out the price of the ER visit and heart attack meds from the myocardial infarction you got from charging anxiety.
A PHEV is the best of both worlds.
For the mainstream, PHEVs actually make more economical sense than BEVs. With more potential to be more affordable having a smaller battery pack. And using superchargers is getting more expensive.
Having a charger at home with a PHEV, I will never stop at a supercharger in my life. Even on a long trip it’s not worth the time/money. Just drive it in hybrid mode and still get amazing economy in those situations.
For longer trips you have to factor in what your time is worth. If you have to stop and recharge it will certainly take longer than a hybrid.
Not sure how anyone can take this "comparison" seriously when using a Mini Cooper as the EV representative. Yeah, it's relatively cheap, but not energy efficient at all. Let's not talk about its laughably low range (~100ish miles).
Tires, perhaps I missed it, but I would hope that Prius is also rocking aggressive tires similar to the aftermarket Cross Climate 2 set on the Mini.....to keep it apples to apples. I can attest to a noticable drop in efficiency swapping out OEM (efficiency focused) spec tires on the Mini for an aftermarket all season. Otherwise, good test!
The hybrid is better for a guy like me since I do frequent long distance trips. The EV would need to have a range of 400 miles plus and cost the same as a hybrid to make me consider one also the charge time would have to be improved I don’t have a hour to wait around to charge up each stop.
Around town car the EV’s are at this point.
What would the total cost be on a EV road trip using only Electrify America vs driving a Toyota Prius? As always great videos and content!
One question not answered is how much further the Preus could have gone with the gas left in the tank at the end of the trip.
I am realizing, the savings come so long as you are charging at home or the office. Using charging stations, they are charging more. Highway Robbery comes to mind, just like the price of Gas tends to be higher along highways.
Tommy , when you order pizza for carry out it's cheaper right? When you order delivery it's more expensive, because convenience fee. the fact that the prius could have done the trip without any stops and had over 300 miles of range at the end of the test while the mini died twice is worth the $2 no doubt. Also if you take a 300 mile road trip the ev would end up costing you more because you need to charge at the station not home. If you had a petrol pump at home it would have been cheaper as well. I think you should have charged the mini at the ev station for a fair comparison, charging at the office was cheating. Or you could have included the hypothetical numbers if you were to charge at the EA.
Charging at home is not cheating, it is the advantage of an ev.
@@chrishansel9324
It's also not a "roadtrip"
@@chrishansel9324 If I had an oil well in my backyard I could make money on the trip?
Not to mention gas prices are artificially inflated right now so during normal times it would be much cheaper in the Prius.
@@Robert-cu9bm It is the start of a road trip and if that trip is in your evs range its a cheap one
Is the mini really that loud in the cabin?
In this day and age do we really need to add more anxiety into our lives. Having to worry about whether your car can make it through even short trips is too much anxiety. You needed to add the monthly charge for access to the public charge and the time to charge should be monitized as well. Can you get a Tesla that costs the same as the Prius?
7:28 Prius has over 90% of fuel left.
Mini Pooper had 9% of charge left. 👏
It's $8.15 not $8.16...
It’s hard to beat the Prius. Even if it were compared with a longer range car you would have to factor in the cost difference of the 2 cars and in that case the Prius still comes out ahead not to mention you don’t have to wait to top off the charge on long trips.
Yes a bit of savings but less convenient plus I hate sweating it out worrying if id make it. I know it’s like worrying if you’ve got enough gas until next gas station.
Good review ! expect more like this ... RAV4 hybrid vs plug in .... Tucson hybrid vs plugin .... model Y vs av plugin ....
The Best car to do this comparation is the Hyundai ioniq that have hybrid and electric versions
Got to add what time cost too. Time is money
The comparison is fair (both small cars/similar price) but the Prius is easily the winner here. Yes it has a gasoline engine, but its a Toyota and those Prius cars last a long time from knowing people who have had them (very few issues). Just do the math over say 100,000 miles. Prius would be 50mpg? So that is 2000 gallons of fuel--$6900 at current cost. Lets say the Mini is 290 Wh/mile...so that would use 29,000 kWh at say 15 cents (if all charging is done at home)... $4,350 ... so a savings of $2500 bucks over 100K. meh... I'd rather have the ability to take long road trips. The Mini is pointless outside short commutes and errands in the city.
Unless you’re flooring at every chance it’s Very difficult to get 2.9mi/kwh. I’m averaging 4.5 -5mi/kwh in the city and 3.8mi/kwh doing 70mph. Where I live, 87 gas is $4.50. I pay $0.1452/kw in my level 2 charger.
It doesn’t make sense to get an EV over a hybrid if you have a long commute and your gas is relatively cheap.
Plus I believe when your client calculating the differences not to be too pro evade but you do have to remove oil changes and all that stuff but then you gotta throw on more tires cause Evies we’re through tires pretty well so maybe equal
The Prius used Public Gas so if the electric car had used Public charging it would have been a lot more than the Prius.
Road-tripping an EV while using EA charging rates is equivalent to a 40 mpg car.
When government fully applies road taxes to EVs like it does to ICE cars, EVs become the equivalent of 30 mpg cars.
True, assuming you're getting close to 5 miles per kilowatt hour, which most EVs do.
How did you come up with that number? One gal of gas is about 33KW my car has a 38KW battery pack and an average range of 170 miles so I my car has a mpge of about 145. So if you charge to full at an Electrify America station that charges by the KWH that would 38 times $.43 equaling $16.34 which is about 4.5 gals.
@@chrishansel9324 and 170 miles on 4.5 gallons is 37.8 miles per gallon. A Prius will pretty easy get 50 mpg so it's less expensive to drive than an EV
@@bryanhersman4037 You Did not read my math correctly. 33 kw = 1gl of gas. My EV has a 38 kwh battery pack. My cars range is 170 so my mpge " miles per gal equivent" is 145 not 37.8. More than twice to milage of a hybrid plus I dont have emitions to deal with and spend less on maitanence.
Only problem I saw in the demonstration was the cost of a persons time sitting waiting for a charge, how much is that worth? In our business time is money!
But if you were going farther and had to use the EA station for your second full charge, the cost would have be about $14.21 - more than the hybrid, underscoring the issue of range on battery and use profile. If you have enough battery power to get from low-cost charge to low-cost charge, the EV is great. However, if you need more range than the battery can provide, the higher cost of EA charging erodes the savings. Of course that doesn't take into consideration maintenance, but that wasn't what this test was about...
Nice little trick to use Charging at office to lower cost just enough to give the biased win, over the fill up of gas 100% from outside source.
E.G. Use the Charge America rates for that 31.5Kwh and it not only cost more but took you 1hr+ longer!
PS - Noticed your charge at the actual Walmart charger said .31c but your calcs at end show you used .33c per kwh.
So nice try at shilling for the EV market...but it's just not good enough (yet).
All the range anxiety plus time and inconvenience equals to $2
I like the comparison test. Yes, the EA charge pricing is higher than at your office, but on a road trip, you would likely be paying more per gallon for gas than you did at your local station since most stations near the freeways jack the prices up.
As for time, this was a 75 mile out and 75 mile back trip. That is much like a trip that most of us would make to visit a destination. The beauty of EVs is that as long as your destination (WalMart, concert hall, museum, whatever) has an EV charger, your car can charge while you spend time at your interim destination. That is time you would spend regardless of the power train of the car you used to get there. Therefore, you are actually spending less time at your trip destination and after returning to the office when you simply plug your EV in rather than having to drive to a gas station, pump gas, wash windows, etc., then drive back to the office.
Most EV owners take advantage of idle vehicle time at such interim destinations to charge up, if not completely, while they are doing whatever they went to the destination to do. It's not like they wait in their EV until it is charged, and then go into the store, concert, library, or whatever. That is something a driver of a gas vehicle cannot do when filling the tank.
This is why I ordered the Mini Electric, its much better suited to European countries as our destinations aren't too many miles apart. If im going somewhere 120 miles away thats 2 hours of driving so im not likely to be at that destination any less than a few hours, so I find a public 7-22 kWh charger (often free) and charge while its parked up. I come back to a full battery and have enough to get back home.
I have really been enjoying the music in your review videos lately. Really good vibes!
That's not a road trip. That's a commute for a lot of people. A real road trip can be thousands of miles where you have to rely only on chargers along the way. Your EA charger was $0.33/kWh so those miles would have cost $14.68 in your EV on a real road trip, far more expensive than the hybrid and a heck of a lot of wasted time charging it. EVs are great for commuting if you can charge at home but they are terrible for road trips, including Teslas.
Nice video guys, you did a great job. This video makes one realise that, the EV range is very important and the type of journey you do, are very important in choosing an EV car. However, I feel the cars picked for this video do not match each other. Perhaps, you guys could done this test with hyundai ioniq hybrid vs hyundai ioniq phev vs hyundai ioniq EV.
So this really comes down to what you consider a "road trip". For me it means leaving from home, driving for a few hours, and typically stopping and staying somewhere that isn't back at home. Not to mention I want to spend the least amount of time as possible not at my destination so any full EV with less then 400 miles of range is probably out for me as a "roadtrip" car. Then when you take this not getting back home idea for a road trip means even all electric is charging at the higher rate. Like 33 cents or so with tax (and that's with his discount he pays monthly for I think he said which isn't factored in anywhere) it brings even this road trip to about $14+ total actually a few dollars more than the hybrid.
For me use case is everything for any car you buy. A car is a tool and you probably wouldn't buy a hammer to cut boards with or a wrench to pound nails with. Full EVs are great for trips to and from home and can manage the longer distance stuff as infrastructure allows ok with not much upcharge. Hybrids are the best of both worlds but don't do either all that great as you have to lug 2 engines around the whole time and maintain both systems. Plug ins are great for near home trips and the occasion to go a bit further but typically are poor long distance drivers because after about 25 miles your gas engine has to carry that big battery with it unable to ever give it much charge. Maybe it's best for road trips with tons of bathroom breaks built in.
For this video though it seemed the EV chosen wasn't quite up to the task which tried to be a bit skewed in its favor imo.
Great video though.
I like how the same charging station at the bottom of the hill is used in so many of these rocky road trip videos. Saw a video about the Rivian Towing capabilities and they had to stop at the same Walmart charger lol
Given how closely priced these two cars are, a total cost of ownership calculation would be interesting... what are the maintenance costs of prius vs mini? If 90% of your day to day driving was covered by home charging, and only the occasional road trip needed with DC fast charging costs, how do these two stack up over 3 or 5 years?
You ask the question is an EV cheaper to road trip… and then use the home discounted off peak charging rate to game the numbers and still barely come in cheaper than the Prius. I don’t usually consider driving circles around my house a road trip. Did you find the most expensive gas station to make sure of the win….? Maybe next time you can install $50,000 worth of solar panels and $30,000 worth of battery backup packs in your headquarters to show that “road tripping “ an electric car 2,000 miles is “free” and you could just drive circles in the parking lot. Maybe someone can do a similar test soon using a credit card swipe at the most expensive Electrify America station they can find and fill the Prius with gas they bought at a fuel bank and saved back in 90’s at $.89 cents a gallon to “prove” that EV’s take wayyyy more money than hybrids to run. 😂
You should have extrapolated the Electrify America cost and the at home cost for the whole trip. This way you could have shown people that it would be $5-ish if you could just charge at home, but it would be about $16 if you didn't have a home charger and needed to charge on any similar pay-charge system.
One of the things I noticed about the mini on this video is how noisy it was. It was the Prius also as noisy?
Thanks boys for throwing out this video, I was asking for this exact thing and you fella's delivered 👍👍
E/V cars the new excuse for being late to work , sorry i forgot to plug my car in 😊
You need 200, 400, 1000 mile loops. Time cost to fill up ICE and EV would be added at $15 an hour. Time cost would add almost $75 cost to the EV.
Would be cool to see an ID Buzz as TFLs next long term EV tester
Take it camping at a state park. Some, if not all, colorado state parks have campsites with 240v outlets for travel trailers which they could plug it in to sleep in heated or air conditioned comfort.
Not only that the Mini is cheaper to charge, no pollution was spewed. It's a win win in my book.
these ev gps needs to have road % grade information added to the data set
Must take into consideration that time is money. Until they can reduce charging time, it is hard to make long trips, especially if it is not flat. Also, the fear factor of running out of energy is high, look at Tommy. You can’t carry a spare can of gas and no one can bring one to you.
Hi Tommy.
Nicely done. I agree, a longer road trip would be a better indicator. And also time spent on the trip, as a direct comparison for time spent on the trip, monetary value to refuel or charge up.
But with:
A short range EV (Mini obviously)
Longer range / Long range EV (Mustang or Tesla)
Hybrid;
PHEV;
Economical ICE; and
Fuel guzzler of an ICE.
Twist, twice:. Winter and Summer. Because we all know range drops drastically in an EV with short range or City capabilities, and significantly in a longer/long range EV during Winter.
Let's see if you all do this and which vehicles you use, as the same vehicles need to be used in Summer again, just to keep the test relevant.
electric vehicles are still not convenient. The Cooper was cheaper by $2. But you had to wait 20mins and even find a charger just to get to 50%.
Great video! I’d love to see a comparison between a gas f150 and the f150 Lightning.
Time is money. That charge isn’t worth the time. Plus the cost of charging the Mini on the road would’ve brought the cost up. Should’ve fully charged it back up at electrify America.
Time is money, also the Prius stopping and wating around is inefficient
If “time is money” on a road trip I think you need to reevaluate your life 😅
@@MarkPharaoh It is money. If I'm trying to get to a destination in a day of driving, charging every few hours would force me to add an additional day of driving, which means an additional night in a hotel. Well, hotel stays cost money.
And if I'm looking to spend an X amount of time at my destination, adding an additional day just because charge times might also mean more time off, which means less money.
So yes, times does equal money.
@@AkioWasRight I don't think you get what the "time is money" statement means in toxic american hustle culture.
@@MarkPharaoh Whatever it means, times is worth something to people and is very much finite. If I lose time in one place, I can only "hustle" to make up for it. Nowhere can I find free time being given away.
@@AkioWasRight you fundamentally don’t get my point but it’s fine, we think quite differently
I feel this was not a fair comparison. Too many variables not accounted for to measure cost on a real road trip. For example, when you're on a road trip, you're going to pay the public DC fast charger price - which is MUCH higher than the home charging rate. You can't charge the EV partially via public charging and home or office charging (utility rates) and get a meaningful cost comparison with the Prius.
In NC, ChargePoint and EVGO are typically cheaper than Electrify America
So, identical cost between EV and Hybrid, if charging from home was not an option.
even if the hybrid costs more you get there quicker.
Of course most people aren't climbing mountains either. That makes it interesting, but not typical.
I think the true cost comparison in this scenario is total cost using public charge station. The price of gas is a constant vs discount charge at home. This is a faulty comparison.
I think a car that won't make it 100 miles on a charge failed the test. I would always factor in the time to charge into the cost, Time is Money, right? Adding hours of charge time to a trip costs too much for me.
At the end you start to make calculations "but if I charge Mini here or if I charge it at office" maybe you can fill up Prius in Venezuela...
I think hybrid systems are better utility all around vs all electric in my opinion it seems like while it does work better to have an all electric car if you have a dense network of charging stations and/or charge from home and never far from an outlet this would be a better option. But I think in those longer trips and have a longer range car, while the cost of gas and electricity will be maybe like 1/4 - 1/2 the price I can predict but less time overall to fill up and not having to worry about filling up.
My argument being this because I took a trip on my Lexus IS 250 being that tank capacity is about 17.1 and I have about 1/4 tank when I fill up that is around 14 gallons and take the mpg being 21 city and 30 highway 25.5 mpg average. your taking about a 400 mile range, CONSISTANT range, the entire trip was about 3,226 miles and I stopped maybe 8 times total and took me 3 days, two if Canada didn't push me back to prove I was going to Anchoarge. and in BC Canada on that Alaska highway road there is no charging networks. Shoot I barely made it one point because gas station was like 200-300 miles in between and luckily I had a gas can to get me to half a tank to reach the next gas station. So that is my thought process I don't know if I am overthinking it considering this trip is less likely to happen for others but I feel like I should bring it up. While my car was a an efficient gas power I can only imagine the range and cost of gas I would spent in a hybrid system. Food for thought.
Such needed content to help educate the public, well done. Keep it up
Hey Tommy, you didn't factor in the monthly charge you pay to EA in the total cost of charging the Mini.
I didn't know that was a thing. I see it as $4 per month with quick search. You would have to wait a month to factor that in though.
0.8% of trips are >100 miles in distance, according to U.S. Department of Transportation, Bureau of Transportation Statistics. EVs may not make sense for long trips, but they are compelling for the other 99.2% of our trips - the other 362 days each year.
compelling but pointless. the upfront cost is ridiculous and what? rent an ice for long trips? come on man!!
@@georgew4629 cost is about values. You may deem the upfront cost ridiculous, and others may disagree. Some folks care about a badge, and others view that as ridiculous. Also, EVs are less than ideal for road trips, but some of them are very doable. I did a 550 mile trip in my IONIQ 5. It was no trouble at all.
My partner and I both drive EVs (a Bolt and a Model 3). We both commute on the freeway, about 2000 miles a month EACH (4000 miles total). We charge both vehicles at home overnight when the electricity rate drops. Our total electric bill, which includes all of our charging for that 4000 miles PLUS all the electricity we use at our house, is about $220 per month. Probably about $120 of that is to charge the cars. Gas here is $3.75/gallon. If we both drove Prii that got 52mpg for that 4000miles, it would cost us $290 a month in fuel, so we are saving around $170 a month in fuel costs. The Tesla costs more than a Prius obviously, but the Bolt cost less, and both vehicles are so much more enjoyable to drive. Prius is an incredibly boring car to drive with bad handling, noisy engine and slow acceleration. Even the Bolt is a substantially more interesting and enjoyable car to drive. I’d take our 2 EVs over two ICE econoboxes any day of the week, they are just so much better to drive. The savings in daily driving costs and the improvement in daily driving enjoyment, plus the added convenience of not needing to go to a gas station every couple days far outweigh the slight inconvenience of fast charging the vehicle on the 2 or 3 road trips we take every year.
So if you would have used public chargers the Mini would have been about $14 total or more than the Prius. That's just on 150 miles, now a real road trip would be 500 miles. So not only save time (probably about 3 hours) in the Prius but save $14 as well.
If your first charge would have been the same cost as charging at your office, then it would have been only $5.45 for the complete trip.
Both are EEEEEEEEEEEEEXTREMELY good in the city
I’m hoping I’ll be able to make it from Arvada to Frisco and back on one charge in the Mini. Trips to Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Fort Collins, Buena Vista should be okay with a fast charge. Aspen would require a charge on the way around Vail.
If the future predictions are true and over half switch to EV's in the next 10 years, the problem I see is the rate of electricity will increase.
To improve the electrical grid and add more charging stations is going to be expensive and the consumer will have to pay for this.
Also state and federal government make money off of the sale of gas to pay for road maintenance,, repairs, etc. So if less people use gas, the government will have to add that "gas tax" to electricity to cover the shortage. I'm all for EV's and a greener future but as always the system is against the consumer ever winning financially.
Add to that possible supply chain issues for battery production, as Lithium shortages due to the high demand. Will eventually increase in average the BEVs prices. Making even more overvalued the used car market.
I don't think you'll have to worry about EV taking over 50% market share in the next 10 years, or even in the next 20-30. What you will have to worry about is more and more government hand, which has only driven up the cost of owning practical ICE cars.
Some UK super fast chargers charge 70pence per kWh.
Fuel is £1.45.
Obama said we would all be in EV by now sooo...they will just start burning all the oil to make electricity problem solved!
I don’t see that you have been using cruise control. I am willing to bet that using cruise control will make both vehicles much better, or at least noticeably better, at their energy consumption. I have never been able to generate better fuel economy in my vehicles “without” using cruise vs with using cruise. It’s always around 10% or better. We just cannot adjust and maintain a steady state as well as cruise control can.
Is it a worthwhile test to TFL? I am especially curious how big a difference it is on an EV. I have tested many of my vehicles I have owned on my own.
How much is range anxiety worth, time, in this test or further I’d take the Prius 100% of the time without any hesitation. If drive Prius in a 500mile trip / 800klm we’d be having a few drinks and a meal waiting for mini. Time is money
no Walmart charger in Plano Illinois , you didn't tell the time invested in filling up and recharging ... big difference
I see you still have the all-weather tires on the Mini. Any appreciable change in efficiency / range over the stock tires?
Electricity cost at my place is 26.6612 cents per unit or kWh. 12 cents is cheap, is that because of a light industrial area?
Great comparison :) now in April 2022, have gas prices increased 50% just like here in CA?
Now in Colorado do they just charge 13.8 cents per kw delivered? I feel like Massachusetts is ripping people off at 31 cents after supply and delivery fees. I think it’s cheaper for me to charge at electrify America
How would you calculate the electrify America subscription amount in this comparison?
Really interesting, Tommy. Thanks.
Mini is unreliable, so the Hybrid would be cheaper..
You really should do it twice with a refuel in between. The charge time versus gasoline fill-up is the issue. Time is money, and nobody has enough time.
Now add those chargers that charge you by the minute. So, if it's running slower, you pay to sit there longer. I bet they throttlenl that shit too.