Roof racks really hurt aero, so not too fair of a test. Though there's basically no way the Gas Mini loses in this. If I had to pick one of the two it would be the EV because it is simpler and less likely to catch on fire than the gas one. Making the EV cheaper and safer to own.
TFLcar This Loveland Pass test is dumb. No one in their right mind is going to drive an EV up these extreme graded roads (Ike and Loveland). Secondly, why would you drive an EV to 148 miles when it can only go to 110 miles of range? Third, Roman shouldn't be testing new technology if he doesn't understand how to use it. Leave that to his tech geek son, Tommy. Remember, he doesn't buy a truck unless it has soft touch dashboard and a lot of tech gadgets. Lol
Do your audience a favor and explain how exactly the "tax credit" works. Most do t know that it's a tax credit, Not that amount off the price of the car when you buy it. Also on the federal credit it is "UP TO" that amount. All will not qualify for the full amount based it is based on if your owe income tax or not.
@@siraff4461 As an EV owner, time spent on charging is rarely a lost time. Yes, they're "losing" time as they're choosing to sit around and make video content while they wait. The idea of these being located in shopping areas and near restaurants, is for the owner to be able to combine the process with taking care of other tasks. I have the added perk of free charging at work. We also made the effort to install a L2 charger at home for when I'm not able to take advantage of charging at work. In both cases, the car simply does its thing while I'm either working, or at home doing home things. In my longer trips where I've had to do en route HVDC charge stops, I've been able to plan them around meal stops, and typically find that my overall extra time spent at chargers has been pretty minimal vs. a gasoline car.
And extremely valid. Charging is actually the main reason I ended up getting a Tesla. Other manufacturers are starting to make some really nice EVs, but their charging networks really need to catch up.
@@JustinJS As a 62kw LEAF owner, the charging network is basically there - so long as they work. Electrify America has infamously stolen the crown from Blink at an epic level with their charging station issues. Blink used to have the slogan of Blink is always on the blink. I've had to or tried to make use as a convenience stop on EA's charging network five times. Out of five, two required calling the company to get the charger started, one was just plain dead, and only two worked in the way the Roman wants. They're crap, plain and simple. The thing that makes this worse, is they are the ones who have most of the highway convenient HVDC chargers in place. They give me more pause on using our LEAF for cross country travel, than Nissan's continued refusal to employ temperature management for their batteries - especially in the Midwest where they are the only option for multiple stops, and having to make the most of the car's range to get to each one.
Actually they're one of the few groups that seem to continuously have trouble with this. It isn't that complicated. iPhones do not have an NFC communication protocol that's probably why the phone doesn't work at the charger. And it doesn't need to, you get the electrify America app put in your payment information It stores that information permanently so you don't have to enter it multiple times, You plug in your car, you go to the app select the station and which charger and hit start and it just goes. They consistently have problems at this station, I suspect it's THEM more than it is the station. I don't even own an electric car and I know how to operate this better than they do. The electricity being sold by the minute rather than kilowatt is not electrify America's choice It has to do with state regulations. And from everything I've seen from other people that road trip, at the member level price tiering it's actually a little bit cheaper than Tesla's own supercharging costs. The reality is they simply aren't operating this charger correctly and it isn't that damn complicated
@@amberbutitta7261 Only for them... You can find lots of other videos of people doing cross-country trips using electrify America. It's pretty easy and pretty smooth, not as smooth as Tesla system. But that's not really possible when electrified America has to serve pretty much all the other manufacturers. You would have to have a way to communicate the VIN number for the vehicle over the DC fast charger cable. That would require every manufacturer to agree to it.
@@kens97sto171 So, honestly, I have *the* most trouble with Electrify America stations when I need to charge my EV. I've had no problems with EVgo or Chargepoint L2 or fast chargers, and I've used EVgo's RFID card and Chargepoint's NFC payment system with my iPhone, so it's not that. Whatever EA's doing, it's not good enough. I have less trouble with IONITY chargers than Electrify America.
So essentially if you can use the Mini-e within the range of returning to your home base it’s a winner. Having to depend on the flaky commercial chargers means it’s a dud.
Roman's meltdown is the exact reason I'm not 100% on board with electric cars just yet! Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE a Tesla, but there's just something so convenient about stopping for 3 minutes and getting gas, and getting right back on the road.
I wrote many letters two years ago, begging Honda to bring the Honda Urban EV/Honda e to the US, but with Pilot sales doing so well, and Clarity PHEV sales so minimal despite massive discounts, it's hard to blame them for thinking the US isn't ready for a tiny BEV car. I expect an HR-V sized BEV CUV will be what they bring to the US market. Honda will be closely monitoring Chevy's fortunes with their upcoming Bolt EUV.
Remember when "they" said we were going to run out of oil and magically the date keeps getting pushed back another 30 years. Kinda like no ice caps or snow would be "a thing of the past" by 2015 😆
I started watching this to learn about the cars, but the experience with Electrify America ended up with the real nuggets from the episode. The charging infrastructure and business models in the USA still have a long way to go to catch up to the tech in the e-cars. Thanks for sharing all this!!
Why not use the EA app to initiate the charge? Would have made it a whole lot easier. Also of note some EV's now do support plug to charge (including on EA). The Mercedes EQC might be the first. The Mach-E is also supposed to support plug to charge.
I do a 2000 mile trip from Cali to Colorado every year in a EV and electrify America requires a heavy pull up on handle while initiating charge. Also I find there locking pins get stuck more frequently than any other charge company I have used. Overall I due find EA needs improvement in ease of use! Thanks for the review. Thinking about the mini as a second car
Just as a fun tidbit. If they had charged to 80% at the charger, it would have been about $13.73 at the estimated charge time. (8 min. @ $2.68 is $0.335/ min. 41 minute estimated to 80%). If on a road trip, it would cost more at that charging station and take up a lot more time to fill than at a gas station to still not have a full charge...
No, they haven't "shrunk the size of the hose". The car dictates how much energy it takes - the charging station doesn't. The MINI was only calling for 32 kW at that time. Also, if you would have used the app to initiate the charge, not tried to hold the phone up to the reader, it would have worked the first time...
The Electrify America stations in California have improved a lot over the past year, but the only reliable way to start the chargers is by using the app. I’ve never been able to activate their chargers by holding the phone up to the reader.
Had a Leaf for almost 2 years and relied a lot on public DC fast chargers since condo building wouldn't install a plug. When I tell you I FEEL this pain.... ugh. Swapped it for a Q50 Hybrid.
Being a 60 year old dude with next to no patience, I would have a stroke waiting for these janky chargers to work properly! Sorry, the grumpy older guy is right ! 😀😡
The EPA calculates a gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 kWh. This MINI's usable battery capacity is 28.9 kWh. So fully charged, the MINI is packing the equivalent of 0.86 gallons of gas--less than what would cause a gas-powered car to light up its red fuel-gauge warning LED. However, getting more than 120 miles from 0.86 gallons of gas is damned impressive (~140 mpg). Sign me up! (Wait, I already did that.)
More range = bigger battery = more weight = worse cornering + slower acceleration. Replace the 181 hp motor with a sewing-machine unit and you'll get the range you want, but this is a MINI and it owns the compact, sporty EV niche. BMW chose performance over distance, which is why I ordered one.
The truth is buying an electric car today is a waste of money because of the batteries....The range reduces over time and eventually you are going to have to toss your car away lol
There’s one thing, no one else can do, they always always are grateful for being able to do everything they can. They know we’re jealous, but we get to sit back and watch them entirely humbly showing us everything.
Of course this is designed to be a city car and most people will charge it at home which should make it much cheaper to run than a petrol car but it's still interesting to see what a city car might be like on a longer trip!
this is a great review actually, i say this cause in my thoughts, lets say someone bought ecooper or electric vehicle as a primary car they are victim to the battery limit, distance and such , plus the time it takes to just charge the vehicle.
Most people only travel 25 miles or less a day for work so range is not an issue for a city car - if you have access to charging it an electric car makes great sense. We have a i3 (bought second hand), with a 33kwh battery and a range of around 120miles. We can drive it as normal for a week and let it charge at home on the weekend no issues. Yes, I know, I could have a gas car and do the same thing and fill it once a month. 😃
@@mattdavies3023 depends where you live, i cannot say its fair to try to say what an average person drives, but my point is this.... if you know nothing about ev cars and researching, too some 100 miles may seem far but also depends on conditions and how hard you drive it, so, in an ev 100 is nothing
I charge at work, and at home 99.9% of the time. Of that .1% virtually all of those stops get combined with meal stops on longer trips, or other misc. tasks like buying groceries, etc. So, unless you walk, I probably spend less overall time "at the pump" annually than you do.
But if the battery were larger and able to make the complete round trip cost for electricity would have been even cheaper. do y'all know what a 0 to 100 charge would be at residential power rates?
Man you need to wash that mini Tommy, mines a 2012 Cooper S and it’s spotless. We have three minis in the house we love them, Cooper S, Paceman S All4, and a Cooper convertible. This electric Mini is definitely on our radar for the future!!!!!
Gas MINI still aced the challenge even when aerodynamically disadvantaged by roof bars. Cool exhaust too. Tommy's Cooper S John Cooper Works could just go up and down the mountain till the cows come home and again and again. He bought a good un. No range anxiety. However the Cooper SE did make it, carefully. Though one unexpected route diversion could be a big problem.
I am in the UK so very interesting for me. A pity the Mini electric doesn't have more range but at least it seems to exceed the official figure. The same issue here with fast chargers, Tesla the only sensible option for hassle free driving here too. Other charges are starting to appear so in a few years other cars will be more viable for regular longer journeys.
That's why they should use a verification code like they do when you register a streaming service on a TV. It would get rid of compatibility issues like that.
I don't think Apple even uses NFC at all. I don't understand why he keeps putting the phone up to the machine. You get the electrify America app put in your information. You plug in the car go to the app pick the location on the app and which charger you're hooked up to and you can initiate the charge. I really don't understand how these professional automotive journalists can know so little about certain topics. I don't even own an electric car and I know how these chargers work. At member price the cost actually ends up being a little bit cheaper than Tesla's superchargers. it's also not electrify America's choice to charge by the minute it has to do with state law forcing them to do so.
just a fyi when you are talking about the air scoops you state that your JCW does not have a intercooler, sorry, it does, it is just mounted in front of the radiator down low
I owned an electric car for a year but i have to agree with Roman. The charging by time rate is a big rip off that I used EVGo. I prefer the charge by amount electric charged by Chargepoint. When i used EVGo, it starts out fast but not full 50kw rate. Then at the end above 80%, it only uses less than 20kw which is a cheat therefore i spent more time and paid more charging the car. It went from $0.45/kwh to $0.90/kwh in the end. Chargepoint on the other hand charged my electric car faster and cheaper.
@Daniel Brice I certainly agree with your comment about charging infrastructure...it's the major limiting factor in the adoption of widespread electric vehicle adoption IMO.
Electric car might be better initially until recycling the lithium ion batteries, that's where the environmental harm is Obtaining lithium ion & recycling it
The Engineering Explained channel has a video devoted to that very topic, covering all aspects of EV production and operation and the total environmental impact. All facets are covered, from mining, to manufacturing of the car, to where the electricity comes from in various areas of the U.S., to the ultimate disposal/recycling of the components. His findings are that EVs are still winners in environmental impact overall vs. all those same considerations with an ICE vehicle.
@@anthonyc1883 I'm still not convinced, some things i agree with other times he talks alot of bs We do facts down in Australia not get paid to talk up the so called perks of EV's
@@ThomasFG Well, he's not talking off the cuff. He cites sources that I suppose can be believed or not believed, just like any other "facts." People have facts about climate change, people who disagree there is climate change have their facts. People have facts about the coronavirus pandemic, people who disagree there is a pandemic have their facts, too. So it goes. Good day!
@@AkioWasRight Range? Be it any source of fuel, a calculation can be made of how much it takes to power a vehicle one mile. Calculations can also be made of how much energy is consumed in producing that gallon, or killowatt, or whatever of energy. I can only suggest you watch the Engineering Explained video on the topic I referenced above. I believe Two Bit DaVinci also has a video that explores total environmental impact, too. Both channels cite scientific resources.
Hey Tommy, You would have had a significantly greater regen heading down the mountain in the low Regen mod. This would allow you to coast down the hill with a constant Regen.
Adding 100 lbs. ballast to the EV to allow for Tommy's lighter weight 😉 and removing the roof racks could have added 1 - 2 mpg to the gas version. The other thought here is don't buy a car that needs premium, which adds 25% to fuel cost for a doubtful benefit. Once EVs compete on price (without subsidies) and on range, I might be interested.
you should add time taken for charging as a cost for commercial purposes as in having to wait while traveling for those who can't wait to charge overnight
Good video, looking forward to the drag race. Would like to see the home charging costs more often in future episodes, though the short range Mini is an exception, using DC and AC to complete the test.
Mini Cooper SE seems like a great little runabout at a terrific entry level price point. Everything was overshadowed by your Electrify America experience though. I really hope you guys can do a future interview with EA about the customer experience, their network and what they're doing to improve.
Electrify America is having these issues because they rolled out such a huge network so quickly, and hence a number of bugs that Tesla worked out early on got duplicated on a much larger scale. They're working on software and replacing hardware with design faults, so this should become less and less problematic of a network over time.
Great video. What happened to the Loveland trial scoring? How about testing the lane keep-assist or the adaptive cruise control? I thought you guys are going to grade each EV you tested on the "World's Toughest Electric Car Test"? Strange that when it comes to the MINI none of that seem to matter any more? 🤪
Cool video, I'm trying to run the math on if I could make this car work for a 60 mile (120 round trip) commute I do fairly regularly in the Los Angeles area that doesn't have charging at the work location. It was interesting you were able to get over the EPA range by doing Eco+ mode, so it seems like it could be possible. There are of course a good amount of charging stations I could hop to along the route, but it would be nice to make the trip "like normal" and go straight home when done for the day.
Also.. At this high altitude, you should be able to run mid grade or 87 with no problem. That will save you a lot of money and the engine could make more power.
Range and charge time with EV’s wouldn’t work for me. I take road trips all the time, with my MKX I get about 500 miles on the highway and it takes a little over a minute to fill up on fuel. EV’s are fun to drive but only practical for city use.
Thank you for another entraining video. However you didn't actually calculate the actual cost of your trip. Your internal combustion Mini requires a lot more to operate than just fuel. Things like oil changes, filters and the other routine maintenance that are a bit harder to calculate but add considerably to the cost of the trip. If the electric Mini is like my Bolt EV it has significant less costs in routine maintenance. Tommy next time you should consider using the Electrify America app instead of phone proximity, in my experience it works much better.
What was that god awful noise that electrify america charger was making? The charging by the minute is usually a regulatory issue. In some places only utilities are allowed to charge by the kWh. So even Tesla has to charge by the minute in those areas.
Yes, in some places. However, there has been a push lately by non-Tesla charge networks to switch business models to 'charging as a service' rather than as a pure sale of electrons. The upshot is that they want you to subscribe for a monthly fee in order to get cheaper rates, then charge you by the minute. The upshot though is that they want to end up with more of your money. When it comes to this, Tommy is right, it's a pretty scummy practice. Throughout the BEV community it's almost universally acknowledged as such.
Fully agree per minute billing is not the way to do it. Even Tesla does this at some superchargergers. They need to upgrade these chargers to handshake with the car VIN and do automatic billing no doubt
Suggestion: download the electrify America mobile application and you can initiate a charge using the app :) the NFC readers tend to not work. Always use the mobile app.
Maybe consider the miles per $ range comparison over that of a mile per gallon ... at the end you pay in $ or you have a solar roof at the office and enjoy the cheap power which is here usually less than 0,10$ per kWh if you have a solar roof.
Being from NYC, 2.59 for premium is a bargain, that's what regular is prepandemic, and my tuned Mustang runs 93 :(. The highest I seen US was on PCH back in 2014, around $5 for regular my luck I rented a Challenger RT. But roman is right, there needs to be a universal model of EV charging, it feels like the pre-USB days of cell phones.
Being from California, $2.59 for anything is a bargain. Even with the oil demand collapse and much of the country seeing $1.something a gallon, most stations in SoCal are still close to $3.00 a gallon for regular.
Interesting and entertaining, gentlemen. Obviously, EV's continue to face challenges in terms of initial cost and range. But times are changing. It's no longer the case that one of the very few EV's could take on the Loveland Challenge without range anxiety. And the purchase price of the MINI, especially with tax incentives, makes it viable choice for many families as a second (or third) vehicle. We're a family with three drivers (me, my wife and our teenage daughter) and two vehicles, my daily driver, (a much loved GTI) and the family's road tripper and my wife's daily driver, a midsize SUV that's versatile enough for a variety of tasks including the occasional need to transport six or seven passengers. Sharing the GTI and SUV works fine for us at the moment but the kid will soon be commuting to college and a third vehicle would be a significant convenience. With that in mind, the MINI EV even with its limited range is an appealing alternative considering its purchase price and its excellent driving dynamics. A used car, of course, is a more economical option but considering the versatility and ownership costs of the MINI EV the extended lifespan and cushion of reliability for all three vehicles is a plus. We wouldn't be climbing mountains in the MINI EV but reducing the urban/suburban mileage on our other vehicles by 10K miles a year has a lot of appeal. Not to mention that I'd be more inclined to swap my GTI for the MINI on occasion. :)
Stephen, get your daughter a used Crown Vic. She'll probably stuff it into a ditch, as all college kids do, and incur damage. Bigger is much safer, and when she gets rear-ended she won't care.
@@fredbrackely If I were planning to shove my kid out the door to whereabouts far away your suggestion might have some appeal. But I'm not thinking of getting a car solely for her. We'd be sharing the three cars in our "fleet" just as we share the two vehicles now. And apart from not wanting to take on the issues and expense of maintaining a "used Crown Vic" and preferring a vehicle that is less likely to find itself in a ditch, I don't want to drive one. :)
Awesome video 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 thank you, both of them have a good looking, of course the ev looks more aggressive!! Unfortunately the range I think is not comparable with Nissan Leaf, as example, but the ev console looks out of this world 🌎
EDIT: I see the problem. You were putting your phone in the wrong spot. So, not a problem with the charger at all, user error. And the plug not releasing was the CAR locking the connector, not the charger. I would implore anyone considering an EV to discount what you are seeing in this video because it is not a typical EV experience. Talk to someone who actually owns something other than a Tesla and can actually give you a real experience, not this complete blunder of a video. Rolling my eyes about the Tesla driver ranting about how crappy DCFC are. Tesla opted to say "screw you" to every other EV driver on the road and make a proprietary charge network that only works with their cars, so it had sure as hell better be simple. Can you imagine how much of a cluster F it would be if every EV manufacturer built their own proprietary network? Equally, can you imagine how much better the CCS DCFC network would be if Tesla opted to support that standard instead? Its really easy to make something that only works on one brand of car. It's a lot harder to make something that works on every brand of car. Tesla has been building their infrastructure for almost a decade. EA stations have been around for what, 2 years? Give me a break.
Really good feedback guys. I did not know that the mini had the BMW engine. It does prove one thing for sure; Tesla is light-years ahead of the competition.
Unfortunately, to charge by KWH would require the company be an electric utility company, subject to the same rules and laws as the companies which provide power to our houses.
I enjoy the Loveland trials. It’s amazing what an electric & ICE vehicles are capable of doing in extreme conditions. The level 2 charger back at the office what’s the info on it? I’ve seen many and none that nice.
![ฮักเทื่อสุดท้าย - บอย ศิริชัย [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-1PoPoQ-B-k/mqdefault.jpg)
Starting at 14:35 was worth the price of admission. Best TFL ever!! Loved it. I needed a good laugh!! Thanks Dad!!
Father and son, I love it!
Time is money, but I say father and son bonding…
Priceless
Lol the reference to backing the model 3 into the garage was gold 😂
Hey guys, to clarify: The current EV credit available in Colorado is $4,000, and will drop to $2,500 in 2021.
Roof racks really hurt aero, so not too fair of a test. Though there's basically no way the Gas Mini loses in this. If I had to pick one of the two it would be the EV because it is simpler and less likely to catch on fire than the gas one. Making the EV cheaper and safer to own.
TFLcar
This Loveland Pass test is dumb. No one in their right mind is going to drive an EV up these extreme graded roads (Ike and Loveland). Secondly, why would you drive an EV to 148 miles when it can only go to 110 miles of range? Third, Roman shouldn't be testing new technology if he doesn't understand how to use it. Leave that to his tech geek son, Tommy. Remember, he doesn't buy a truck unless it has soft touch dashboard and a lot of tech gadgets. Lol
@@siraff4461
I bet that you're fun at parties. How much time do you lose from going to the bathroom after eating and drinking at parties? *sarcasm*
Do your audience a favor and explain how exactly the "tax credit" works. Most do t know that it's a tax credit, Not that amount off the price of the car when you buy it. Also on the federal credit it is "UP TO" that amount. All will not qualify for the full amount based it is based on if your owe income tax or not.
@@siraff4461 As an EV owner, time spent on charging is rarely a lost time. Yes, they're "losing" time as they're choosing to sit around and make video content while they wait. The idea of these being located in shopping areas and near restaurants, is for the owner to be able to combine the process with taking care of other tasks. I have the added perk of free charging at work. We also made the effort to install a L2 charger at home for when I'm not able to take advantage of charging at work. In both cases, the car simply does its thing while I'm either working, or at home doing home things. In my longer trips where I've had to do en route HVDC charge stops, I've been able to plan them around meal stops, and typically find that my overall extra time spent at chargers has been pretty minimal vs. a gasoline car.
The banter today was HILARIOUS..... Tesla fanboys will be delighted!
Roman’s meltdown is the best!
And extremely valid. Charging is actually the main reason I ended up getting a Tesla. Other manufacturers are starting to make some really nice EVs, but their charging networks really need to catch up.
Justin Schnalzer Tesla is the only viable electric due to their infrastructure
@@JustinJS As a 62kw LEAF owner, the charging network is basically there - so long as they work. Electrify America has infamously stolen the crown from Blink at an epic level with their charging station issues. Blink used to have the slogan of Blink is always on the blink. I've had to or tried to make use as a convenience stop on EA's charging network five times. Out of five, two required calling the company to get the charger started, one was just plain dead, and only two worked in the way the Roman wants. They're crap, plain and simple. The thing that makes this worse, is they are the ones who have most of the highway convenient HVDC chargers in place. They give me more pause on using our LEAF for cross country travel, than Nissan's continued refusal to employ temperature management for their batteries - especially in the Midwest where they are the only option for multiple stops, and having to make the most of the car's range to get to each one.
That Mini SE is really a cool car
This is definitely one of my favorite car review channel and I love that it’s father and son.
Thanks!!
Man that thing is loud.
You guys do a great job. Minor suggestion, add more of the trip metrics in the description.
"Didn't anybody try this before they set it up??"
(Sees they're at an Electrify America station)
No, no they didn't!
Actually they're one of the few groups that seem to continuously have trouble with this. It isn't that complicated.
iPhones do not have an NFC communication protocol that's probably why the phone doesn't work at the charger.
And it doesn't need to, you get the electrify America app put in your payment information It stores that information permanently so you don't have to enter it multiple times, You plug in your car, you go to the app select the station and which charger and hit start and it just goes.
They consistently have problems at this station, I suspect it's THEM more than it is the station.
I don't even own an electric car and I know how to operate this better than they do.
The electricity being sold by the minute rather than kilowatt is not electrify America's choice It has to do with state regulations.
And from everything I've seen from other people that road trip, at the member level price tiering it's actually a little bit cheaper than Tesla's own supercharging costs. The reality is they simply aren't operating this charger correctly and it isn't that damn complicated
I love how the post wiggled when Roman touched it (16:45)!
Exhibit A: a debacle
LOL
@@amberbutitta7261
Only for them...
You can find lots of other videos of people doing cross-country trips using electrify America.
It's pretty easy and pretty smooth, not as smooth as Tesla system. But that's not really possible when electrified America has to serve pretty much all the other manufacturers.
You would have to have a way to communicate the VIN number for the vehicle over the DC fast charger cable. That would require every manufacturer to agree to it.
@@kens97sto171 So, honestly, I have *the* most trouble with Electrify America stations when I need to charge my EV. I've had no problems with EVgo or Chargepoint L2 or fast chargers, and I've used EVgo's RFID card and Chargepoint's NFC payment system with my iPhone, so it's not that.
Whatever EA's doing, it's not good enough. I have less trouble with IONITY chargers than Electrify America.
Really love how you guys have EV videos. We need more! I thought you had a few others in your test fleet?
4:24 I really hope honda was paying attention to that, because that means the Honda-e would sell here.
So essentially if you can use the Mini-e within the range of returning to your home base it’s a winner. Having to depend on the flaky commercial chargers means it’s a dud.
Roman's meltdown is the exact reason I'm not 100% on board with electric cars just yet! Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE a Tesla, but there's just something so convenient about stopping for 3 minutes and getting gas, and getting right back on the road.
That horrible noise when charging. Imagine if all the other units were being used. Arghh.
Honda really messed up by not bringing their electric hatch to the US.
I wrote many letters two years ago, begging Honda to bring the Honda Urban EV/Honda e to the US, but with Pilot sales doing so well, and Clarity PHEV sales so minimal despite massive discounts, it's hard to blame them for thinking the US isn't ready for a tiny BEV car. I expect an HR-V sized BEV CUV will be what they bring to the US market. Honda will be closely monitoring Chevy's fortunes with their upcoming Bolt EUV.
Agreed! Such a cool looking car...
I like this test...i know its a bit of tongue in cheeck, but if you know Bjorn Nyland, you'll know this is no way the toughest EV test. 😉
Does Bjorn drive an EV straight up a mountain to almost 12,000 feet above sea level? Enough said!
@@TFLcar
Oh, someone's triggered. Lol
@@TFLcar Unless it's in a blizzard, no it's not. 😁
Tongue in Cheek
Remember when "they" said we were going to run out of oil and magically the date keeps getting pushed back another 30 years. Kinda like no ice caps or snow would be "a thing of the past" by 2015 😆
Why does the charger imitate the sound of a mechanic’s lift going up, thankfully minus the “CLANK CLANK” of the safety locks?
Tommy dealing with his grumpy father reminds me of when I am dealing with my father. But, I am about the same age as Roman! :-P
Yup, I am only a few years older then Tommy but agree with Roman. Tommy has never lived outside the city suburbs, he needs to explore the world lol.
I started watching this to learn about the cars, but the experience with Electrify America ended up with the real nuggets from the episode. The charging infrastructure and business models in the USA still have a long way to go to catch up to the tech in the e-cars. Thanks for sharing all this!!
Why not use the EA app to initiate the charge? Would have made it a whole lot easier. Also of note some EV's now do support plug to charge (including on EA). The Mercedes EQC might be the first. The Mach-E is also supposed to support plug to charge.
I do a 2000 mile trip from Cali to Colorado every year in a EV and electrify America requires a heavy pull up on handle while initiating charge. Also I find there locking pins get stuck more frequently than any other charge company I have used. Overall I due find EA needs improvement in ease of use! Thanks for the review. Thinking about the mini as a second car
Just as a fun tidbit. If they had charged to 80% at the charger, it would have been about $13.73 at the estimated charge time. (8 min. @ $2.68 is $0.335/ min. 41 minute estimated to 80%). If on a road trip, it would cost more at that charging station and take up a lot more time to fill than at a gas station to still not have a full charge...
Never had a problem with Electrify America. You have to use the app for most charging stations, tapping/scanning is too much of a pain.
Can you take the Ford Escape hybrid to the Loveland test
Yes
Thank you for doing a solid review of this car! its on my list!
No, they haven't "shrunk the size of the hose". The car dictates how much energy it takes - the charging station doesn't. The MINI was only calling for 32 kW at that time. Also, if you would have used the app to initiate the charge, not tried to hold the phone up to the reader, it would have worked the first time...
Seems like the gas gauge on the Cooper S is inaccurate.
@@Gandalf721 Well its a Mini...
Excellent and realistic review gents.
The Electrify America stations in California have improved a lot over the past year, but the only reliable way to start the chargers is by using the app. I’ve never been able to activate their chargers by holding the phone up to the reader.
Had a Leaf for almost 2 years and relied a lot on public DC fast chargers since condo building wouldn't install a plug. When I tell you I FEEL this pain.... ugh. Swapped it for a Q50 Hybrid.
Being a 60 year old dude with next to no patience, I would have a stroke waiting for these janky chargers to work properly! Sorry, the grumpy older guy is right ! 😀😡
Most of the way through the video I thought of the Seinfeld episode of Kramer on a test drive. Just how far can you go after the needle gets to E?
The EPA calculates a gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 kWh. This MINI's usable battery capacity is 28.9 kWh. So fully charged, the MINI is packing the equivalent of 0.86 gallons of gas--less than what would cause a gas-powered car to light up its red fuel-gauge warning LED. However, getting more than 120 miles from 0.86 gallons of gas is damned impressive (~140 mpg). Sign me up! (Wait, I already did that.)
I wish it had more range. Especially for 37k!!
More range = bigger battery = more weight = worse cornering + slower acceleration. Replace the 181 hp motor with a sewing-machine unit and you'll get the range you want, but this is a MINI and it owns the compact, sporty EV niche. BMW chose performance over distance, which is why I ordered one.
A stylish Mini, good comfort and fair performance. $20K to $23K (post incentives) is a great deal for a realistic city / weekend car!
The truth is buying an electric car today is a waste of money because of the batteries....The range reduces over time and eventually you are going to have to toss your car away lol
There’s one thing, no one else can do, they always always are grateful for being able to do everything they can. They know we’re jealous, but we get to sit back and watch them entirely humbly showing us everything.
Great video. Charging station was my favorite part!
Awesome episode! Also, did you all get a new office? The garage looks awesome!
Thanks for making the video. And for the educational experience you shared with Electrify America.
I agree with Roman..This needs to be as easy as fueling up.
Great video , but i wish you removed the roof rack on the petrol one , when youre doing mpg testing, it actually makes a difference
Of course this is designed to be a city car and most people will charge it at home which should make it much cheaper to run than a petrol car but it's still interesting to see what a city car might be like on a longer trip!
Also work out your hourly rate for the time to charge and add that to the cost to recharge
this is a great review actually, i say this cause in my thoughts, lets say someone bought ecooper or electric vehicle as a primary car they are victim to the battery limit, distance and such , plus the time it takes to just charge the vehicle.
We already know this about EVs.
Most people only travel 25 miles or less a day for work so range is not an issue for a city car - if you have access to charging it an electric car makes great sense. We have a i3 (bought second hand), with a 33kwh battery and a range of around 120miles. We can drive it as normal for a week and let it charge at home on the weekend no issues. Yes, I know, I could have a gas car and do the same thing and fill it once a month. 😃
@@mattdavies3023 depends where you live, i cannot say its fair to try to say what an average person drives, but my point is this.... if you know nothing about ev cars and researching, too some 100 miles may seem far but also depends on conditions and how hard you drive it, so, in an ev 100 is nothing
@@stig120212I agree, didn't mean to generalize. I too think it was a great video review and agree with what you are saying here.
I charge at work, and at home 99.9% of the time. Of that .1% virtually all of those stops get combined with meal stops on longer trips, or other misc. tasks like buying groceries, etc. So, unless you walk, I probably spend less overall time "at the pump" annually than you do.
But if the battery were larger and able to make the complete round trip cost for electricity would have been even cheaper. do y'all know what a 0 to 100 charge would be at residential power rates?
"Time is Money" You didn't count for the time you spend at the electric charging station.
Man you need to wash that mini Tommy, mines a 2012 Cooper S and it’s spotless. We have three minis in the house we love them, Cooper S, Paceman S All4, and a Cooper convertible. This electric Mini is definitely on our radar for the future!!!!!
I wash it like like twice a week! It’s just impossible to keep them clean on the colorado rainy season
The hose? Masters degree paid off 😹
Subscribed. 😹😹
“If you are watching this in 2022 it’s really cheap.”
LOL!
We are first time EV car owners and never have we ever had that many issues charging our car!
Gas MINI still aced the challenge even when aerodynamically disadvantaged by roof bars. Cool exhaust too. Tommy's Cooper S John Cooper Works could just go up and down the mountain till the cows come home and again and again. He bought a good un. No range anxiety. However the Cooper SE did make it, carefully. Though one unexpected route diversion could be a big problem.
I am in the UK so very interesting for me. A pity the Mini electric doesn't have more range but at least it seems to exceed the official figure. The same issue here with fast chargers, Tesla the only sensible option for hassle free driving here too. Other charges are starting to appear so in a few years other cars will be more viable for regular longer journeys.
Everyone that I know that uses apps like that have no issues with theirs. My guess is that has to do with Apple devices not playing well with NFC.
That's why they should use a verification code like they do when you register a streaming service on a TV. It would get rid of compatibility issues like that.
They should have a cash spot like a vending machine and one for credit card. That system is a failure.
I don't think Apple even uses NFC at all.
I don't understand why he keeps putting the phone up to the machine. You get the electrify America app put in your information. You plug in the car go to the app pick the location on the app and which charger you're hooked up to and you can initiate the charge.
I really don't understand how these professional automotive journalists can know so little about certain topics. I don't even own an electric car and I know how these chargers work.
At member price the cost actually ends up being a little bit cheaper than Tesla's superchargers.
it's also not electrify America's choice to charge by the minute it has to do with state law forcing them to do so.
AHAHAHAH That Opener is so true about the EV chargers. ! Tommy calming down his pops is hilarious.
I think it's a good car. That sort of range would be perfect for 99% of people.
I think that's the key. We all pretty much purchase vehicles that satisfy the majority of our needs, most of the time.
just a fyi when you are talking about the air scoops you state that your JCW does not have a intercooler, sorry, it does, it is just mounted in front of the radiator down low
dad: im as chill as paris hilton
son: ok boomer
I owned an electric car for a year but i have to agree with Roman. The charging by time rate is a big rip off that I used EVGo. I prefer the charge by amount electric charged by Chargepoint. When i used EVGo, it starts out fast but not full 50kw rate. Then at the end above 80%, it only uses less than 20kw which is a cheat therefore i spent more time and paid more charging the car. It went from $0.45/kwh to $0.90/kwh in the end. Chargepoint on the other hand charged my electric car faster and cheaper.
And Tesla's quality control is........
@Daniel Brice I certainly agree with your comment about charging infrastructure...it's the major limiting factor in the adoption of widespread electric vehicle adoption IMO.
Electric car might be better initially until recycling the lithium ion batteries, that's where the environmental harm is
Obtaining lithium ion & recycling it
The Engineering Explained channel has a video devoted to that very topic, covering all aspects of EV production and operation and the total environmental impact. All facets are covered, from mining, to manufacturing of the car, to where the electricity comes from in various areas of the U.S., to the ultimate disposal/recycling of the components. His findings are that EVs are still winners in environmental impact overall vs. all those same considerations with an ICE vehicle.
@@anthonyc1883 I'm still not convinced, some things i agree with other times he talks alot of bs
We do facts down in Australia not get paid to talk up the so called perks of EV's
@@ThomasFG Well, he's not talking off the cuff. He cites sources that I suppose can be believed or not believed, just like any other "facts." People have facts about climate change, people who disagree there is climate change have their facts. People have facts about the coronavirus pandemic, people who disagree there is a pandemic have their facts, too. So it goes. Good day!
@@anthonyc1883 EVs aren't even on par in terms of driving range. How could we compare their environmental impact?
@@AkioWasRight Range? Be it any source of fuel, a calculation can be made of how much it takes to power a vehicle one mile. Calculations can also be made of how much energy is consumed in producing that gallon, or killowatt, or whatever of energy. I can only suggest you watch the Engineering Explained video on the topic I referenced above. I believe Two Bit DaVinci also has a video that explores total environmental impact, too. Both channels cite scientific resources.
Hey Tommy,
You would have had a significantly greater regen heading down the mountain in the low Regen mod. This would allow you to coast down the hill with a constant Regen.
Tommy!!!! Wash your poor car!
Your premium is still cheaper than Upstate NY. We still have stations over $3/ga. Cheapest is about $2.77 around me.
Adding 100 lbs. ballast to the EV to allow for Tommy's lighter weight 😉 and removing the roof racks could have added 1 - 2 mpg to the gas version.
The other thought here is don't buy a car that needs premium, which adds 25% to fuel cost for a doubtful benefit.
Once EVs compete on price (without subsidies) and on range, I might be interested.
It is interesting that the MINI Cooper SE is the only MINI sold in the US that doesn't require premium gas.
you should add time taken for charging as a cost for commercial purposes as in having to wait while traveling for those who can't wait to charge overnight
Good video, looking forward to the drag race. Would like to see the home charging costs more often in future episodes, though the short range Mini is an exception, using DC and AC to complete the test.
I still love your vw touareg but I do like your mini
At last all the right noises.
Mini Cooper SE seems like a great little runabout at a terrific entry level price point. Everything was overshadowed by your Electrify America experience though. I really hope you guys can do a future interview with EA about the customer experience, their network and what they're doing to improve.
Electrify America is having these issues because they rolled out such a huge network so quickly, and hence a number of bugs that Tesla worked out early on got duplicated on a much larger scale. They're working on software and replacing hardware with design faults, so this should become less and less problematic of a network over time.
I do love my 2013 Volkswagen Beetle
I believe you have a small air to air inter cooler below the radiator on your 2010 JCW.
Great video. What happened to the Loveland trial scoring? How about testing the lane keep-assist or the adaptive cruise control? I thought you guys are going to grade each EV you tested on the "World's Toughest Electric Car Test"? Strange that when it comes to the MINI none of that seem to matter any more? 🤪
ECS tuning sells a great set of OEM MINI wheels that would look awesome on your 2010 Cooper S. I got the entire set for $550.
Cool video, I'm trying to run the math on if I could make this car work for a 60 mile (120 round trip) commute I do fairly regularly in the Los Angeles area that doesn't have charging at the work location. It was interesting you were able to get over the EPA range by doing Eco+ mode, so it seems like it could be possible. There are of course a good amount of charging stations I could hop to along the route, but it would be nice to make the trip "like normal" and go straight home when done for the day.
Another example of how good tommy has become as Captain frustration strikes again.
Electrify America is the worst thing ever for EVs. This ruined EVs for me until I switched to a Tesla
Also.. At this high altitude, you should be able to run mid grade or 87 with no problem. That will save you a lot of money and the engine could make more power.
Range and charge time with EV’s wouldn’t work for me. I take road trips all the time, with my MKX I get about 500 miles on the highway and it takes a little over a minute to fill up on fuel. EV’s are fun to drive but only practical for city use.
Wow! You're the only one who has figured out the true intended purpose of EVs. Congratulations!
I appreciate showing real life frustration. Honest moments are hard to come by these days
Thank you for another entraining video. However you didn't actually calculate the actual cost of your trip. Your internal combustion Mini requires a lot more to operate than just fuel. Things like oil changes, filters and the other routine maintenance that are a bit harder to calculate but add considerably to the cost of the trip. If the electric Mini is like my Bolt EV it has significant less costs in routine maintenance. Tommy next time you should consider using the Electrify America app instead of phone proximity, in my experience it works much better.
What was that god awful noise that electrify america charger was making?
The charging by the minute is usually a regulatory issue. In some places only utilities are allowed to charge by the kWh. So even Tesla has to charge by the minute in those areas.
Yes, in some places. However, there has been a push lately by non-Tesla charge networks to switch business models to 'charging as a service' rather than as a pure sale of electrons. The upshot is that they want you to subscribe for a monthly fee in order to get cheaper rates, then charge you by the minute. The upshot though is that they want to end up with more of your money. When it comes to this, Tommy is right, it's a pretty scummy practice. Throughout the BEV community it's almost universally acknowledged as such.
Fully agree per minute billing is not the way to do it. Even Tesla does this at some superchargergers. They need to upgrade these chargers to handshake with the car VIN and do automatic billing no doubt
Dad's "grumpy" reaction at the beginning is ONE of my fears about an EV. I can see myself getting frustrated with a charger NOT being easy to use.
Grumpy old man
Looks to me you kept tapping the phone on the payment screen instead of the NFC sensor 5 inches lower on the vertical surface.
Suggestion: download the electrify America mobile application and you can initiate a charge using the app :) the NFC readers tend to not work. Always use the mobile app.
We tried. It didn’t work.
The Fast Lane Car really? That’s so strange. Did you call customer support! I prefer ChargePoint over EA lol
Typical EA station.. if not heavily used broken
Dan H it’s too bad... the network has such potential. But the pricing structure and so forth turn a lot of people away.
Maybe consider the miles per $ range comparison over that of a mile per gallon ... at the end you pay in $ or you have a solar roof at the office and enjoy the cheap power which is here usually less than 0,10$ per kWh if you have a solar roof.
Being from NYC, 2.59 for premium is a bargain, that's what regular is prepandemic, and my tuned Mustang runs 93 :(. The highest I seen US was on PCH back in 2014, around $5 for regular my luck I rented a Challenger RT. But roman is right, there needs to be a universal model of EV charging, it feels like the pre-USB days of cell phones.
Being from California, $2.59 for anything is a bargain. Even with the oil demand collapse and much of the country seeing $1.something a gallon, most stations in SoCal are still close to $3.00 a gallon for regular.
Interesting and entertaining, gentlemen. Obviously, EV's continue to face challenges in terms of initial cost and range. But times are changing. It's no longer the case that one of the very few EV's could take on the Loveland Challenge without range anxiety. And the purchase price of the MINI, especially with tax incentives, makes it viable choice for many families as a second (or third) vehicle.
We're a family with three drivers (me, my wife and our teenage daughter) and two vehicles, my daily driver, (a much loved GTI) and the family's road tripper and my wife's daily driver, a midsize SUV that's versatile enough for a variety of tasks including the occasional need to transport six or seven passengers. Sharing the GTI and SUV works fine for us at the moment but the kid will soon be commuting to college and a third vehicle would be a significant convenience.
With that in mind, the MINI EV even with its limited range is an appealing alternative considering its purchase price and its excellent driving dynamics. A used car, of course, is a more economical option but considering the versatility and ownership costs of the MINI EV the extended lifespan and cushion of reliability for all three vehicles is a plus. We wouldn't be climbing mountains in the MINI EV but reducing the urban/suburban mileage on our other vehicles by 10K miles a year has a lot of appeal. Not to mention that I'd be more inclined to swap my GTI for the MINI on occasion. :)
Stephen, get your daughter a used Crown Vic. She'll probably stuff it into a ditch, as all college kids do, and incur damage. Bigger is much safer, and when she gets rear-ended she won't care.
@@fredbrackely If I were planning to shove my kid out the door to whereabouts far away your suggestion might have some appeal. But I'm not thinking of getting a car solely for her. We'd be sharing the three cars in our "fleet" just as we share the two vehicles now. And apart from not wanting to take on the issues and expense of maintaining a "used Crown Vic" and preferring a vehicle that is less likely to find itself in a ditch, I don't want to drive one. :)
Total cost to refill is not the accurate #. Should see the cost/mile.
Awesome video 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 thank you, both of them have a good looking, of course the ev looks more aggressive!! Unfortunately the range I think is not comparable with Nissan Leaf, as example, but the ev console looks out of this world 🌎
EDIT: I see the problem. You were putting your phone in the wrong spot. So, not a problem with the charger at all, user error. And the plug not releasing was the CAR locking the connector, not the charger. I would implore anyone considering an EV to discount what you are seeing in this video because it is not a typical EV experience. Talk to someone who actually owns something other than a Tesla and can actually give you a real experience, not this complete blunder of a video.
Rolling my eyes about the Tesla driver ranting about how crappy DCFC are. Tesla opted to say "screw you" to every other EV driver on the road and make a proprietary charge network that only works with their cars, so it had sure as hell better be simple. Can you imagine how much of a cluster F it would be if every EV manufacturer built their own proprietary network? Equally, can you imagine how much better the CCS DCFC network would be if Tesla opted to support that standard instead? Its really easy to make something that only works on one brand of car. It's a lot harder to make something that works on every brand of car. Tesla has been building their infrastructure for almost a decade. EA stations have been around for what, 2 years? Give me a break.
Why are the charging stations so expensive in the US.
Really good feedback guys. I did not know that the mini had the BMW engine. It does prove one thing for sure; Tesla is light-years ahead of the competition.
Lolololol when Tommy tells Roman not to crash the car.
Later on Tommy says "Well, I successfully backed an EV into the garage without damaging the quarter panel, so that's a good day."
Kandi K27 is smaller, cheaper, and shorter range than this, but it only has 60 miles of range and has no quick charge.
Unfortunately, to charge by KWH would require the company be an electric utility company, subject to the same rules and laws as the companies which provide power to our houses.
I enjoy the Loveland trials. It’s amazing what an electric & ICE vehicles are capable of doing in extreme conditions.
The level 2 charger back at the office what’s the info on it? I’ve seen many and none that nice.
Great video and insights.The new Mini cooper isn't as cool because of the hight? Thanks
110 miles is pretty good for around town... Well just keep at it