-once again creating a NEW pinned post bc youtube hates me- The first act of Wickedly Queer is up! Since YT is so dodgy about links, you'll have to check my channel yourself, but you're smart enough to find your way! 😉
Thank you for making this video! I agree that wicked is gay, and I like how passionate you are about this. As a bisexual, I can totally seeElphaba and Glinda’s romance very clearly. I have a theater friend who is also LGBTQ, but she dismisses this as a strong female friendship. Thanks again!
One of my favorite comments about Loathing was “you know that tumblr post how a girl didn’t know what a lesbian was so she had a crush on another girl and told her to leave the school? That’s Gelphie” and honestly I haven’t stopped laughing
It's how I reacted to crushes before I knew I was gay. It totally works. Apparently my crush in middle school thought I was gonna chase her out of town.
@@BannedFromTheatersrealizing that you wrote one of my favorite fanfics! Thank you for the video and for blessing us with "Smoke Covers Your Radianting Heart"! I love it!
Dude I thought loathing meant loving because of “What Is This Feeling?” and then my english teacher handed it out as a definition in a vocab packet and I was SO CONFUSED. Like why were their faces flushing?
“Hand touch, hand touch, hug, hand touch, cowering behind your girlfriend, hand touch, hug. Hand. Touch. The notable absence of hand touch.” LET ME TELL YOU I SCREAMED and cried
I remember when I first heard about defying gravity without having to watch the musical the thought “Are they.... are they breaking up? Is this suppose to be a break-up song?” AUTOMATICALLY ENTERED MY BRAIN
I think the whole “even thought they tried they couldn’t remove how fundamentally gay the whole relationship is” thing is totally spot on Seriously their relationship is so gay that years after I saw it the only thing I thought I remembered was that they were totally just gay
Agreed. I haven't seen the actual musical yet(but I will next August) but I could feel something between them just from the songs, even without to much context.
They are bi but Fiero was definitely gay (book version. Musical version is probably straight and also white which both confused me as much as I LOVED the musical)
@@bymeerabrowngothicroyal I know, while he is away from his wife whom he doesn't love the the way he thinks he should and her sisters who he similarly has no intrest in, the way he thinks he should, preferring to hang out with his exclusively male friends going to theatres and bars in the city. Despite clearly loving Elphaba he sais that seeing her breasts won't effect him, he's not attracted to Elphaba "as a woman" but only has sex with them after they declare that they are not a woman. The whole relationship is extremely gay.
@@bymeerabrowngothicroyal oh, absolutely. I agree with that. It's Fiero I'm talking about. I think he is mostly gay, I'm not trying to bi erase, I'm bi/pan myself. Both Elphaba and Glinda are clearly canonically bi. Fiery being gay/bi with a preference for masc and men is headcanon and much more subtextual.
@@BannedFromTheaters I love gay people, I, in fact, am gay myself. I've lived with other 12 guys all my life without women and people still question it smh
Fun story: Stephen Schwartz actually did an intimate concert at WashU back in 2002 where he introduced the musical. He actually said it was a love story between Elpheba and Glinda.
but did he say it in like a "gal pal-y" way??? because i feel like he said it in a "just gals being pals" kinda way "no homo intended haha" "it's a love story... between FRIENDS" :P
@@BannedFromTheaters He didn’t specify. Back then, I feel like calling something a love story between women was more likely to be interpreted as a Thelma and Louise love story, as you’re saying, between friends...
Elphaba in the book kisses Glinda, and in the show spends all her stage time acting like an awkward closeted bottom, and people will still insist there’s no gayness at all 💀💀
Dude, I remember walking out of the theatre and being incredibly mad at the ending. So mad, that it made me think of the whole show as bad (I was fourteen, repressing my gayness and very dramatic, don’t @ me). Also, I think I totally suppressed Fiyeros entire existence, because when my mom and I listend to the soundtrack she bought again, like a year ago, and I was reading along with the lyrics on the booklet, I genuinely had no fucking clue who this „Feero“ guy is. My memories of him are blurry at best, to this day. And that’s saying something, because I usually never forget characters.
Funny enough I hated the whole Fiyero and Elphaba plot, but I loved him as a character because I vibed with his whole nihilist dancing through life bullshit. I still think he could have a side plot about being this vain and careless because of anxiety, depression or something instead of the forced romance with Elphaba Edit: oh I just got to the part that she talks about his existencial crisis, I'm glad I'm not the only one worried about this fictional dumbass' mental health
@TherealRNO book and musical are entirely different. In the musical they don't get a kid, and their arc is rushed and lazily written. Which is what I argue in this video.
The book has a lot of gay and bi characters, and it's left very open to interpretation if Elphaba and Glinda were in love or not (they totally were). The book - and it's sequels - have similar themes but are also really different and it's beautifully written.
@@xdarkbrianx Yeah. I mean, even Liir himself in the sequel "Son of a Witch" is bi, but ultimately, marries coven nursemaid Candle & has green-tinted daughter Rain with her.
As a closeted Lesbian-theatre-nerd, this is my favourite TH-cam Video now. Wicked is my favourite Musical. Edit: I came out and everyone is ok with it. Yeyyyy!
Congratulations on coming out and everyone who matters to you was fine with you being a lesbian. You'll be getting your club card and free toaster in the mail in about two weeks. (Lol). I am happy for you.
Unrelated, but fun fact: I had a theater teacher at my school who had played Fiyero on Broadway. His boyfriend/husband (not entirely sure if they are married or not) had played the guard who says, “The Wizard will see you now!” Fiyero x Guard is the best ship, actually 😌😆 Anyway, I love this video and how in-depth it goes about the ship and the shit way Broadway works in terms of money and accessibility as a whole.
INCREDIBLE!! Hilariously enough, in my version Wickedly Queer, Fiyero is bearding for Glinda the entire duration of their relationship. Soo, who knows what funky business Fiyero got up to in the Palace. Anyway. Fiyero x Guard is now canon in this version, thank you for coming to my TedTalk. 😆
FYI, there actually is a term for "word blends." Portmanteau. The particular technique of using portmanteau to unmoor the audience in a fictional otherworld you're describing here is also famously utilized Lewis Carroll's "Alice in Wonderland" books.
Ah yes that'd be one of those specific words I definitely missed out on because English is not my native language. Then again, I'd probably still say "word blends" because fk the french.
@@BannedFromTheaters To be fair, most native English speakers probably don't know this one either, since it's such an obscure topic. Also, lol, sorry, English is a bastard language and French is the baby daddy...or one of them, anyway.
@@BannedFromTheaters You're Swedish, judging from your accent. Could be Dutch, Danish, but I think Swedish. Dutch doesn't have the vocal fry, Danes mumble.
24:28 this made me cryyyy😭 Something tells me that the writers of this musical putting the same music cue in those two scenes was a way of them nudging that they wanted galinda and elphaba to be in a relationship all along, but were too afraid that it would make the show less successful. 30:01 the anger I felt here AAAAH C'MON MAN it should've been galinda and elphaba walking together at the end. None of these connections were accidents; I really think the writers were in favor of elphaba and galinda as a couple, I hope.
This is an incredibly comforting video. It’s hard to find satisfying amounts of representation in media, especially when it’s buried under copious amounts metaphors. So thank you because you just made my day a little better
As someone who has never had the chance to see the musical I read the book in middle school (I had no business doing that 😭😭) but I EXPLICITLY remember Fiyero being described as dark skin and as a black girl myself I imagined him a very handsome black man and I imagined his wife to look like a plus sized black woman ( I think I headcasted her amber Reilly or someone close to that) just someone that was a kind maternal figure. But as I got older I started gaslighting myself and wondering if I had lost my mind or something because no one EVER mentions it!! Like no wicked deep dive videos I’ve seen at all, so thank you for bringing light to that aspect.
I read the book immediately after seeing the part 1 movie that just came out.. this has been the most confusing part of the musical/movie to me. Why make Fiero this random white guy?
I have felt for years that Fiyero getting chucked in there as a serious case of the “not-gays” For those who don’t know “not-gays” is a term I’m pretty sure was coined by the TH-cam channel RedLetterMedia to describe when two characters of the same sex are close enough and have good enough chemistry that making them gay would be awesome but the writers are nervous about it so they chuck in a random character of the opposite sex to be the love interest to one or both of them to prove to the audience that they are “definitely not gay.”
It is one of the worst cases I’ve ever seen. I never saw the musical before I watched the film and from what I saw they spoke about the romance between fiyero and elphaba so I was excited to see Jonathan be a romantic lead just for me to watch and be like ‘why is he even here?’ It’s pretty clear they are gay as hell he is completely unneeded and they didn’t even try!! I am a lover of romance!! Don’t insult my intelligence!!!
There's this great essay on "Cannibalism and Sapphic Love" featured in Jennifer's Body, Yellowjackets, and House of the Dragon, that brings up how in each of these stories centered around two main female friends-with-chemistry, a male character is introduced as being initially associated with one girl, only to end up somehow involved with the other girl, but still existing as a sort of "shared commodity" that ties the female leads (Chip between Jennifer & Needy in JB, Jeff between Shauna & Jackie in YJ, and Ser Criston Cole between Rhaenyra & Alicent in HOTD). After picking up on the ship-y vibes between Glinda & Elphaba, then quickly seeing Fiyero's function in the story, I immediately wondered if Wicked could count as another example of such a scenario. 🧙♀
@@SpaceandGoats but we aren’t talking about the books. The book was trying to do something different. The musical is literally about Glinda and Elphaba. In the books, Glinda barely shows up after Elphaba leaves Shiz. And Fiyero wasn’t even in the Shiz arc. There were plenty of characters they cut from the books, they could have cut Fiyero. He’s not even part of the wizard of Oz universe anyway.
Really great video! I always interpreted 'What Is This Feeling' as being two characters singing about how they're totally love with each other with the joke of it being them misinterpreting their own feelings as loathing so its funny how the song is "supposed" to be them actually hating each other. Definitely agree with Glinda actually being very intelligent, I think 'Popular' kind of expressing how shes been taught that it doesn't matter shes smart, just that shes popular. So she plays the part that makes people like her. Oh and ever since I found out that in the books Fiyero actually became the next ruler of Oz I felt so confused about why they didn't do that. I think it makes for a much better character arc instead of some forced heterosexual ending.
I remember being so confused, as a little eight year old, that Elpheba told Fiero she was alive but not Glinda and that she ended up with him. I was like but she likes Glinda? Who's Fiero?
“Who’s fiero” is so real haha, I saw the show a few years ago and again a few months ago. In that time I had completely forgotten about the existence of poor fiero lmao
I’d also like to point out that the song “little miss perfect”, specifically the parts after “one night my friend stayed over” which perfectly matches elphaba during “popular”
57:16 holy shit. thanks you for talking about the ableism of nessarose's character. let's not forget about the curing plot, and the trope of disabled people being trapping people in relationships when, in reality, disabled people are more likely to be dependant of potentially abusive partners? also, the fact that her disability being percieved as awful and a flaw is never questionned, and that she is percieved as desirable when cured - if only boq wasn't unnaturally smitten with glinda? the fact it passes under the radar -narratively wise, and for the characters, and for the cast at some extent- is truly heartbreaking. and as you put it, it is literally unreachable for people that are disabled, and it'd be pretty insulting. i think i've seen that your lines of "hideous chair" changed for a complain about lack of ramps (ironic when you know about 2019 tony awards not having ramps for nominated-then-winner ali stroker), but it feels like putting tape over a big water breaking. it is not enough, and it doesn't fix anything. ~~sorry i am editing again, i thought it was an official change~~. i don't even have any idea on how to fix it, to be fair. it's disheartening. boq is, as far as the show (badly and weakly) goes, the best remplacement for a disabled role in this piece of media there is, and even then, it'd be really the bare, facing ground-dust minimum. just don't make us die, don't make us mean and don't cure us disableds isn't supposed to be an unknown, radical take. also, how come out of the four main female roles, nessarose, aka a plan-b, unliked woman with possessive tendancies, and madame morrible, who is well, madame morrible, are the only ones frequently played by women of color? however, i can't talk on that, as i'm white, so dont hesitate to call me out.
At the time I read this it was late and I wanted to give you a proper reply and then of course, I forgot about it... Oops! But yes, the only reason I actually finished this script (which was lying cold for 8 months at the time) was through the intersectional angle of the "Act II" part of the video. Nessarose being a minor but still very important part of it! It is clear to me that the writers didn't realize the nasty implications of Nessa's character at the time and simply looked at what worked narratively. And narratively, it *does* work. No matter how many flaws on closer inspection it has, not just for Nessa, but Fiyero being degrading towards himself for being "brainless" -> but then turning out to be the Scarecrow! And Boq seeing Glinda as his manic pixie dream girl and therefore being "heartless" to both Glinda and Nessa -> perfect analogy for the Tinman! Narratively? It *fits*. But only on a surface level. And like you said, that's not easily changed. You're right the "lack of ramps" was a tweak I made in my Wickedly Queer gifs (in which I make Glinda and Elphaba end up together and Fiyero lead Oz, as I suggested in the video as a more satisfying storyline). And even in the original post I fully acknowledge that this "change" I made for Nessa doesn't really fix anything at all. But the point of those gifsets (and Wickedly Queer as a whole-even the animated version I'm working on currently) is to point out how little you have the change for the story to be far more inclusive. But you're right, if we really want to change Wicked to be *actually* inclusive, that would basically include rewriting the story from scratch. Something I doubt we'll see in the official Wicked branche any time soon, given how beloved the musical and story is. If you really want to see much more inclusive (and interesting) takes on Wicked, I think turning to fanfiction is currently the only course to go. But that obviously can be a bit of a minefield in itself, because nothing is curated. Also, I'm white myself and I think going "I can't talk on that" and immediately surrendering yourself to a potential calling out is counterproductive. Combatting racism is *our* responsibility too! But there's obviously a time when to shut up and listen and when to take action. There's a reason why I let Michael Genet (Dr. Dillamond) tell his story almost unedited, because I think it's really important! Same with the several quotes from Alexandra Billings and Brittney Johnson. In that section of the video I let *them* take the lead and build my case around that, because I'm obviously not the first nor only person to note these things! I just happened to make a long video about it. :P I make a point of saying this because I think your observation about Nessa and Morrible being played "the most" by woc is definitely an important one. Though Elphaba has been played by some Latina women too. (Which makes sense given the demographic in New York) But she's green the entire time of the show... That said, I think Wicked has hid long enough behind the "Galinda is a dumb blonde trope therefore she HAS to be blonde (read: white)" for long enough. It's a lot to put on Brittney Johnson's shoulders, but I do really hope she is the first actress to break that notion and we get more Glindas of colour in the future. She's a magnificent character! And similarly as with the other characters (*cough* Fiyero *cough*) we could use some fresh takes on her!
I see this very differently. Everyone accepts and loves Nessa with her disability. They accommodate for her without question. The headmistress goes as far as to share her quarters with Nessa so as to make things easier. The point of her whole character and arc is that the her use of her legs doesn't hold her back at all--but she has a hard time accepting her internal character flaws so she blames a disability that had nothing to do with the problems she's facing It's super ironic that they seemed like they were trying to be inclusive within the story but then make the role impossible to play with a disability. And i wasn't aware that people with disabilities "trapping" people was a trope, that's gross and counterfactual, as you laid out
After reading several posts about this topic, and especially Ariana Grande saying she sees Glinda as someone in the closet... it's time to dive deeper into the subject.🤓
God I remember watching Wicked with my friend and our families at age 14 and just barely resisting talking about how gay it was because I didn't want to out myself. Now that we're both 19 and some flavor of lgbt I feel the urge to send this video to her to be like "back then did you notice how gay it was too???" I loved this video so much!!! It truly boggles my mind how queer coded the story is and how most cishet people don't even pick up on it. Also really appreciated the inclusion part of the video, Nessa's treatmeant in the show is abhorrent and I'm so sick of fantasy stories being metaphors for fictional racism while perpertuating/dismissing real life racism. If your queer Wicked animation project is still in the works, I'm very interested in the results, no matter how long it takes!! Either way, thank you for this amazing video, I throughly enjoyed it :)
Oh you should totally send it to your friend! Now I'm curious if she found it gay too haha. :P And yes, WQ Animated is definitely still a thing (like I said in the video, I *will* finish this project), but it's such an incredibly massive project and I do have a fulltime job now, so I simply can't put in as many hours as I'd like. But it'll will come! I'm aiming before the end of 2021, but no promises. ;)
I only listened to the sound track and thought it was a gay show, like openly gay. good to know that the real thing will probably irritate me too much on this point to genuinely enjoy it.
the only production of wicked I've seen (west end) had fiyero played by a black actor, then I watched the film and he was white, then I found out he's been black since the book. It would have been really nice to see film fiyero played by a black actor because that's the version that can be accessed by more audiences and is permanent
i hadnt watched the musical but had read the book and my friend had watched the musical but had not read the book, and i told her it was gay as hell and she was like "NO ITS N-- wait actually"
Okay. You already know I adore this entire video but GOD. It's so friggen incredible, Sam. The absolute analysis of it all!! The gay subtext of it all!! A lot of the things you pointed out from the musical are things that I would have never noticed and it blows my mind how many little details there are that create this narrative! And it honestly is just so nice to see our shipping of gelphie be so validated. Like YES YES! THIS IS WHAT WE BEEN SAYING!! And then and theeeennn going into the movie itself? Absolutely *chefs kiss*. And just the amount of dedication and work you put into this...it's so incredible. You're incredibly talented and so creative. And also we LOVE good broadway slam ;) def needs to be said. Because there are systemic things that need to be changed and simply posting "we support gay rights!" or "we support POC!" is not enough. We need action! Like you said "practice what you preach." And I do hope one day Wicked (and broadway as a whole)can create a narrative that is not spoken in just metaphors. That actively addresses these issues and allows for change in the right direction.
From what I remember the book was a lot like this too - HEAVY gelphie vibes that were overshadowed by a sudden romance between Elphie and Fiyero which makes no sense and ends in Fiyero dead lol. So maybe they wrote it like this to match the book in a way? (disclaimer its been a while since i picked up the book) also it may not have looked that good to have Gelphie get together (sad face) because of the popularity of the wizard of oz. Also Fiyero and Elphaba are a lot a like bc they both are impulsive and looking for love in wrong places while Glinda is just like perfect for Elphie cause she gay as hell and is probably never realized it.
I discuss the book later in the video ;) I don't think gelphie got overshadowed by fiyeraba in the book, per se. They were two very different times in Elphaba's life and I do believe she both loved them romantically. And yes, I also later on in the video mention that in 2003 the world looked a whole lot different. And back then, a love story between Glinda and Elphaba would not have gone down well with the masses, especially because of the Wizard of Oz link. But it's 2020. Wicked is its own mega success and entity in its own right, separate from the Wizard of Oz legacy. And I do believe that if we get a revisioned Wicked musical in the future-and especially looking at potential future adaptations-the creators will look at the romance between Glinda and Elphaba and give it a more prominent and textual presence (instead of subtextual).
Glinda is the classic 30 something who suddenly realises she was a victim of compulsory heterosexuality and was, in fact, gay all along. She is basically all of us born in the 90’s and fed Nutella & Disney Princesses
@@gracegillies5161 Yet, even despite higher-up executives cancelling it, we've Lumity from _The Owl House_ as the first canonical bi (Luz) X lesbian (Amity) couple in a show developed for DISNEY.
I'm not English person so when i first listened "what is this feeling" I thought they sing about "loving". loathing and loving are really pronounced similar
Yes, I'm not English either and I totally agree!! The staging and melody also seems to indicate "loving" instead of loathing, making the mistake even more common!
we sang For Good in choir and it was funny how everyone was like obviously this is a love song and the choir teacher was like no they were just roommates
Elphaba: kiss me goodbye the-likely non-existent cause all of us are gay-homophobic or just cluelessly cishet theatere people: ah yes what great best friends
The first time I heard the Defiying Gravity song I was like, 11 and in a dance class. It had been one of the instructors favorites and I just remember they played the song so much I was sick of it. But one day I actually took the time to listen to the song and what they were singing and I just remember being mad and confused as to why the other singer(glinda) didn't go with her "friend". Cause it was pretty obvious to me that whoever the characters were carried for each other a lot, which made me assume they were sisters (cause gayness didn't exist in my head at the time). However I looked up the musical some years later when homosexuality did become a thing for me and immediately concluded that they were gay and should've gotten together.
My first exposure to this musical was the song loathing, and with just that I was like yeah of course, they are gonna end up together. I was baffled when I realized that they don't end up together. I love analyzing stories and tropes and stuff too, and like the loathing song, like you said, is so obviously the set up to an enemies/rivals to lovers type romance.
Watching Wicked the first time I figured if it was so popular for so long it must not have any big flaws but I have a really hard time excusing Fiyero.
Enjoyed this detailed and fascinating analysis! The musical is near and dear to my heart, but for me the relationship between Elphaba and Glinda is the only relationship I really care about when seeing the show. Nothing against Fiyero per se, but your take on the relationships between the characters as portrayed in the musical is spot on. Fiyero's character would be much better served if the ending had happened the way you suggest (and this would align with The Wizard of Oz film ending, as well, in terms of what becomes of the Scarecrow). Meantime, Elphaba and Glinda would have the relationship that suits them best, as well.
A wonderfully insightful analysis of my absolute favourite musical. You must have worked really hard to make this. (The amount of editing alone I can't even) I enjoyed it a lot. So thank you!
Maybe this is because when I discovered Wicked I was high schooler only just realizing I was maybe asexual- but I always interpreted I'm Not That Girl (and all of Elphaba and Fiyero's relationship) to be an attempt by Elphaba to deny her feelings toward Glinda. A sort of "Ha...ha...Im not gay, see, I have boyfriend!!" perhaps similar to how I told my family I had a crush on this guy mainly because I thought i was SUPPOSED to, not because I actually did. What supported my theory was Elphaba DESCRIBING Glinda in the song- "Blithe smile, lithe limb, gold hair with a gentle curl"- it just felt way too poetic and felt like the writers were nudging the audience to "hey, Elphie doesnt REALLY love Fiyero in THAT way, her true romantic feelings are for Glinda"
The Oz series is very queer coded. If it was written today, Dorothy and her friends would be practically skipping down the yellow brick road waving a rainbow flag. There are some very lovey scenes between Tin man and Scarecrow. Ozma and Dorothy are practically dating. Frex (Elphabas "father") was in a sexual affair with Turtle heart. Liir (Elphaba and Fyeros son) is at least bisexual and possibly gay. Glinda remenisces of her time with Elphaba with love. Maguire acts like its scandalous and "naughty" Also Elphaba was intersex. But again, Maguire treats it as a dirty secret
You guys know how they said in the video that Glinda’s pining for Elphaba in the book is more apparent than any pining Elphaba may have for her, but in every Gelphie video of the Broadway production they always address Elphie’s gay panic 💀 it’s almost like they reversed it to make up for the amorous ambiguity
Curious fact: I'm from Brazil and have seen the two versions of wicked here. The last Fiyero was a black man and honestly the best. A powerhouse voice, great actor and really brought the charisma the character needed
@@BannedFromTheatersdependendo de como o roteiro do filme vai ser, talvez você precise fazer um segundo vídeo entitulado "the Wicked movie is even gayer" (estou torcendo por isso)
@@grecia3146 I'm a straight girl with limited knowledge of the Wicked musical (POTO is my domain) and I *immediately* picked up on the ship-y vibes between them. Glinda's first flashback shown of Elphaba is (the back of) their hands touching, her obvious mourning, the "physical symptoms" they bring about in each other in "What is This Feeling?", the dance (again, with so much emphasis on touching!), the fact that they *literally* run out of the club together leaving Fiyero behind and then stay up all night getting to know each other, Elphaba's insistence that Glinda accompany her to the Emerald City (while having no issue saying good-bye to Fiyero), the amount of times they reach for/hold hands during "One Short Day," them clearly seeing the EC trip as a bonding experience that reaffirms their friendship, and then to top it all off: Elphaba proposing to Glinda that they run away out West together and be powerful, Glinda sadly refusing, and then the obvious heartbreak they express knowing this is it for them (I legit almost cried). Plus, after watching the movie, I realized the poster of their arms outstretched is essentially representative of Glinda reaching out to the memory of Elphaba (considering she's in her Good Witch of the North dress), but never quite touching, and if that's not supposed to carry lost love/thinking back to What If? vibes...
Maybe they can fix it for the movie, apparently they are making new songs so.....I'm expecting a love story between Glinda and Elphaba, or please hope they actually include the kiss they shared in the book for the movie
I would love to see it I’m just so not here for the meltdowns of people who think “they make everything gay now” because they don’t look at the source material. They did the same with the color purple that came out🤦🏾♀️
Wicked has been one of my favorite musicals ever since I was a kid and it still is probably my favorite musical ever, and that's largely been because of the beauty in Glinda and Elphaba's relationship, which I especially connected with around the time I realized I was gay. I will wait anxiously for Wickedly Queer because I know it's going to be awesome. This was an amazing video that just further solidified how gay I knew this play was, and I can't wait to see what new projects you make!
i saw wicked recently and every supposed love scene with fiyero practically had me all snuggled up in bed snoozing bored waiting for the next scene between glinda and elphaba.. if i were fighting with someone and they tenderly touched my hand i don't think i'd suddenly fall in love and sing a romantic song about it on the ground
You mentioned not knowing what the link was re Jews and the colour green. There's a notable painting called "Jew in Green" (1914) by the Jewish artist, Marc Chagall, which I think has a lot of subtexts. He also painted "Green Lovers", "The Old Jew" etc. Then have a look at Picasso's "Old Jew and a Boy" (1903). Hmmm. Once you know, you'll see it a lot - there's even a plant called "Green Wandering Jew"!!
Oh good to know! I definitely didn't want to dismiss the argument (or else I wouldn't have included it), but I just couldn't find articles that were explicitly talking about this. But looking at the artwork, seems like it could be a mighty interesting video essay! But probably for someone else, because art history isn't my speciality ;) Thanks for sharing though!
Actually, Liir's bi. He's with a gay solider in his father Fiyero's army, gets amnesia, is cared for by coven nursemaid Candle (his future wife) & has daughter Rain with Candle. Rain herself has a love interest who basically redoes the "Tip-is-secretly-Ozma" reveal, more or less.
As for the intersectionality of Broadway part- I think a big part of the issue is the commercial nature of Broadway and how young the genre is. Every time Shakespeare or Euripides is performed, it's completely reinvented, for better or for worse. This is possible because these stories are in the creative commons, so everybody can do as they please with them. Every time a big-name musical like Wicked or Phantom is performed, it is exactly the same (very few non-replica productions aside). It has to be, as decided by Cameron Mackintosh and other rights holders. I think the genre of musical theatre would really, _really_ benefit from more fluidity in adaptations, like the traditional world of text theatre already has. This would allow not only for more diverse castings, but for more diverse and intersectional ways to reimagine the stories that have shaped this genre as a whole.
ive watched this video so many times over the past couple of years. this is probably my favourite video essay on youtube ever. its also a comfort video for me. a true masterpiece. thankyou for making this :)
Oh my god someone put the vindication gif here because I never liked that "just looking at things another way" line and I tried, I triedddd to like it so much
I saw Wicked in Melbourne last night, and while I loved it something was bothering me about Fiyero and his place in the show, especially while watching the finale. You perfectly unpacked it in the first half of part 1. Everything his and Elphaba's dynamic does Glinda and Elphaba do far better. On top of that, he does little else in the second act except drive a wedge between the witches and bail Elphaba out multiple times and it felt... Lazy. His whole emotional arc from the interval onward is "I love Elphaba" and that's it. We don't even get to see how he feels about joining Boq and the mob during the Witch Hunt number, he's not even mentioned despite the fact he should be there as per the source material.
Yeah, I feel your frustration. Like, sure, I get that you kinda want to keep Fiyero's motivations hidden because it would bring the momentum you get from NGD onwards to such a grinding halt. But still, his motivations are so clearly "I'm playing double agent bc I love Elphaba". And it's so boring and LAZY and UGH!!! Glinda and Elphaba deserved to kiss and Fiyero just deserved better and borh can be pretty easily fixed which makes it all the more frustrating. 😅
@@BannedFromTheaters oh shit my apologies Mighty Stroopwafel. I promise to never repeat this terrible affront. Btw I loved your video and although I misnamed them stroopwafels are actually so good, O terrible and delectable one.
I've always wondered why I never liked act 2 of Wovked that much and it's because of freaking Fyerio! He's more or less off to the side in act 1 but he becomes a thorn in my side when act 2 starts. He literally causes Elphaba and Glinda to reduce their friendship to fighting over a man all of act 2 and it's annoying. Hell he literally makes Glinda think Elphaba had been betraying her the entire story.
Danke for including the most amazing Elphaba in the world, the incomparable Willemijn Verkaik in your video. I watched her perform on Broadway opposite Alli Mauzzey. This pairing’s on stage chemistry was 🔥.
I remember listening to For Good for what must have been the hundred time and going 'oh' and then playing it on repeat because I suddenly saw the gay (the closet is a powerful thing)
A must watch for any Wicked fan! Thank you for pointing out so many intricate details within the musical I never thought twice about. It was such an interesting video and enjoyed every second of it. WICKED IS GAY
Thank you for writing this, it's incredibly informative and very entertaining! I'm always learning how my favorite media as a kid is queer coded, and it's fascinating to learn more of the background/dig into the text. All of your work is very much appreciated!
can i just say- i’m back here after some 8 weeks into the ao3 gelphie tag and i have to admit i am completely changed by this mystical experience and ALSO i’m so eager for this project of yours! i hope it’s coming along well! honestly i don’t want the wicked movie, i want your movie instead, it sounds like you know your stuff IM SOLD.
ah yes the ao3 gelphie tag, my *other* home haha. You might have actually read some of my work in that case! :P Yeah, I think the general consensus in the fandom is that we don't want a wicked live action movie (though the new director is giving me the smallest hint of hope), but if it *has* to be a movie, it should be 2D animated. I wouldn't mind a 4 season/part series where we dive deep into wicked books, aimed at adults so we can get into the gritty world Maguire created. Wouldn't mind 2D animated here either, but maybe this would lend itself well for live action. The Wicked movie / series above all else, needs to reinvent the story as both Wicked the book and musical has done! *That* is the legacy of Wizard of Oz/Wicked! The process is slow, but I'm working on WQ animated! :) I'm currently halfway done with the first act! So don't forget to subscribe or whatever works for you so you won't miss it when I put it online ;)
@@BannedFromTheaters i agree with everything you said!! i also would like something reinvented like you said, i’m not even sure i want it in a musical format (i fear the cats curse...). oh my god, what’s your name/account on ao3? i didn’t know you had material there! i’m definitely going to check it out!
@@BannedFromTheaters ooh i did read something of yours then! i read Glowing straight after i read out of oz (and loved it!) and the 3-part dutch high school AU was the next one in my queue 😍 wow i had no idea it was you!
After years, I finally took the time to watch this entire video in one sitting. and BOI was it worth my time!!! The first part got me kicking my feet because of how much I love gelphie, and how you got SO MANY ARGUMENTS FOR IT! The last part of the video was incredibly educational and should be played everywhere. THANK YOU for this.
While I agree with all other points, I would argue that Fiyero didn't find the resolution to his character development in Elphaba, but rather in the ideals Elphaba stands for. She is fighting for something and when he fights for that thing with her it gives him purpose. This is juxtaposed against him with Glinda trying to put up pretenses to please a crowd and meaninglessness of it all to him. It brings him no fulfillment whereas standing with Elphaba against all of Oz brings him life and makes things matter. Meanwhile, I feel like both Elphaba and Galinda are both simultaneously trying to use him as their rebound date to get over their massive crush on each other. Honestly, if Fiyero was even a little smarter, he would have locked his two friends in a closet until they kissed so he could have some peace of mind. I suppose he doesn't need peace of mind, though, once he becomes a scarecrow.
This is fantastic! I wish I could invite a bunch of people to a room, close the doors, and screen this for them so they understand exactly why Wicked is so very important to me. The first time I saw the musical I was very newly gay and not out, and I left gasping and ranting about how it was a phenomenal love story and how Glinda was absolutely wronged with the way she’s viewed by most. I just got back from seeing the musical again after a long time with my mother who years later I am now out to and it just transformed me back to that time of having every light in my head just click on. That’s a feeling I will never forget, and this analysis reminds me so much of my journaling after seeing wicked that very first time. Thank you for your hard work!
also, thanks for including MK and GC. They really drove it home for me in terms of “how gay do the actresses play it” and I wish i could go back to when they were touring and re-live their magic.
At 26:18 - 26:40 this is said "This includes the magical f-ing hand touches! Their first meeting? Hand touch. Glinda's apology? Touch. Their reconciliation? Hand touch. Hand touch. Hand touch. Hug. Hand touch. Cowering behind your girlfriend. Hand touch. Hug! Hand. Touch. The notable absence of the hand touch." And let me tell you.... I laughed so hard that the people around me looked up and were like... Are you ok? I also might have more like laugh-cried.... Not to mention i played over that section like 50 time just repeatedly making myself fall over laughing... Great job on everything but especially that! 😂 Edit: "The first time elphaba comes on stage in act 2 she literally comes out out of a closet" that was funny but what really got me was 33:54 "I cant even make this sh-t up if i wanted to." I already knew that, that happens in Wicked but you pretty much summed it up perfectly! 😂 Edit: Also i can confirm as a Bisexual that at 52:45 -52:54 it is so freaking true... that was wayyyyy too on the nose. 😅
I loved this video! Very thorough, and I love how you didn't just focus on the queerness in the text of Wicked itself, but also on the broader context in the history of Oz's different adaptations leading to this one and on the context of Broadway and its workings.
Every time I think of Wicked now I'm gonna picture a little animated waffle pointing at a white board insisting forcefully, "Wicked... is GAY." 🤣 thank you for that Edit - probably not a waffle, sorry lol
As a person who only knows wicked From three songs, (all mentioned as the strongest points for them being gay) I was genuinely so confused when my Dad said Wicked wasn't gay. Watching this amd learning about it not only not being gay but having a poorly shoehorned I hetero romance made me legitimately angry. It was gay in the book and everything was stack for them to be together but the musical they just don't
Wicked's tour is about to stop nearby and I'll be working merch during some shows. I try to do research on shows I'm working and am so glad to have this video recommended to me. They are still selling the "Friends of Elphaba" Pride shirt which I was really excited about, and still am to an extent, but part of me does feel tokenized being a black queer woman myself. (also there's an Elphaba x Fiyero snowglobe for sale but at least Fiyero has melanin)
While I do understand your dislike of Fiyero's and Elphaba's relationship (because I don't care for it either) I feel like you're reducing their arc a bit, the reason why Fiyero starts liking and appreciating Elphaba is because of the kind of person she is, she makes him want to think and helps him to reconnect with his capacity for empathy! That's the point of Wicked, that Elphaba has a lasting impact on both Fiyero and Glinda While I do dislike the ending and completely agree with you about Glinda's and Elphaba's relationship being established better and earlier, some of the reasons why Fiyero feels fulfilled when he's with Elphaba are not that shallow as to "get with a less pretty girl" That's the reason Fiyero starts looking for Elphaba after they save the lion's cub
This probably wasn't the first iteration but there is a song called little sir hugh where a young boy is lured to a castle and murdered by a "lady dressed in green," in a way that perpetuates antisemitic myths. The song is based on a boy of the same name whose death was falsely blamed on jewish people in the mid 1200s.
I've never been to theatre before, and only watched Wicked with my friends, three days ago. It was such a wonderful play except I couldn't stand that "main romance" is this much dull and thin. Then I thought I might be doing femslash again(happens all the time) since I'm lesbian. Well, Fiyero! Thinking of his role and position in Wicked, I honestly felt the ending was wrong. But none of my friends agreed with me. So I went searching surfing the internet...... and found this gem. This is fascinating. Beautiful. Thank you so much.
You're definitely not the only one!! A ton of queer people have seen what you and I saw so you're in very good company. Maybe show your friends this video? It could change their minds (or at least make them more open to your position! ;))
-once again creating a NEW pinned post bc youtube hates me- The first act of Wickedly Queer is up! Since YT is so dodgy about links, you'll have to check my channel yourself, but you're smart enough to find your way! 😉
Thank you for making this video! I agree that wicked is gay, and I like how passionate you are about this. As a bisexual, I can totally seeElphaba and Glinda’s romance very clearly. I have a theater friend who is also LGBTQ, but she dismisses this as a strong female friendship. Thanks again!
One of my favorite comments about Loathing was “you know that tumblr post how a girl didn’t know what a lesbian was so she had a crush on another girl and told her to leave the school? That’s Gelphie” and honestly I haven’t stopped laughing
I.. I actually legit made a gelphie fic out of that prompt LMAO.
@@BannedFromTheaters LINK?????
Here u go: archiveofourown.org/works/34052905
It's how I reacted to crushes before I knew I was gay. It totally works. Apparently my crush in middle school thought I was gonna chase her out of town.
@@BannedFromTheatersrealizing that you wrote one of my favorite fanfics! Thank you for the video and for blessing us with "Smoke Covers Your Radianting Heart"! I love it!
Dude I thought loathing meant loving because of “What Is This Feeling?” and then my english teacher handed it out as a definition in a vocab packet and I was SO CONFUSED. Like why were their faces flushing?
God I feel this! Upon realizing what “loathing” actually meant I was thoroughly confused.
BannedFromZoos by the way, I’m a soprano 1 and majoring in musical theater right now, so I can totally help out!
Awkweird Abby awesome! I left a link in the description with a doc detailing everything you need to know!
@@awkweirdabby8352 you can major in musical theatre? WHERE DO I SIGN UP?
How different was the show after you realised? XD
“Hand touch, hand touch, hug, hand touch, cowering behind your girlfriend, hand touch, hug. Hand. Touch. The notable absence of hand touch.” LET ME TELL YOU I SCREAMED and cried
26:23
BEST COMMENT EVER! I did the same thing....I laughed for like 10 min straight (no....gay) but I also was laugh-crying.... 😂😭
love is in the air
I remember when I first heard about defying gravity without having to watch the musical the thought “Are they.... are they breaking up? Is this suppose to be a break-up song?” AUTOMATICALLY ENTERED MY BRAIN
The "I hope you're happy" as Elphaba flies off destroyed me
to be fair, idina menzel did release a cover of defying gravity, and that’s pretty much what it sounds like
I think the whole “even thought they tried they couldn’t remove how fundamentally gay the whole relationship is” thing is totally spot on
Seriously their relationship is so gay that years after I saw it the only thing I thought I remembered was that they were totally just gay
Trotsky, a gelphie stan? Iconic. ;)
Agreed. I haven't seen the actual musical yet(but I will next August) but I could feel something between them just from the songs, even without to much context.
so true. I thought Elphaba's boyfriend was a false memory of mine. but no, he did exist in the musical. . .
I just what the movie and immediately was like I need to see people talk about how gay their relationship is. Like it is extremely homosexual.
ah, yes, Elphaba, bi and intersex icon. she deserved better.
They are bi but Fiero was definitely gay (book version. Musical version is probably straight and also white which both confused me as much as I LOVED the musical)
@@Sam..123 fiyero has a canonical loving affair with Elphaba in both. 🫣
@@bymeerabrowngothicroyal I know, while he is away from his wife whom he doesn't love the the way he thinks he should and her sisters who he similarly has no intrest in, the way he thinks he should, preferring to hang out with his exclusively male friends going to theatres and bars in the city. Despite clearly loving Elphaba he sais that seeing her breasts won't effect him, he's not attracted to Elphaba "as a woman" but only has sex with them after they declare that they are not a woman. The whole relationship is extremely gay.
@@Sam..123 okay, still sounds bi to me. Also Elphaba herself is a subversion of heteronormativity she’s into him fiyero (and Glinda) in a very bi way.
@@bymeerabrowngothicroyal oh, absolutely. I agree with that. It's Fiero I'm talking about. I think he is mostly gay, I'm not trying to bi erase, I'm bi/pan myself. Both Elphaba and Glinda are clearly canonically bi. Fiery being gay/bi with a preference for masc and men is headcanon and much more subtextual.
i didn't need to be convinced that wicked is gay, but i watched it all anyways because its ✨amazing✨
Thank you for supporting gay right, Jesus.
@@BannedFromTheaters I love gay people, I, in fact, am gay myself. I've lived with other 12 guys all my life without women and people still question it smh
hi king, I love you
Jesus Christ I mean, the situation with Judas wasn’t very subtle either
@@zinkheroofyoutube8004 👉👈
Fun story: Stephen Schwartz actually did an intimate concert at WashU back in 2002 where he introduced the musical. He actually said it was a love story between Elpheba and Glinda.
but did he say it in like a "gal pal-y" way??? because i feel like he said it in a "just gals being pals" kinda way "no homo intended haha" "it's a love story... between FRIENDS" :P
@@BannedFromTheaters He didn’t specify. Back then, I feel like calling something a love story between women was more likely to be interpreted as a Thelma and Louise love story, as you’re saying, between friends...
i'm sure if wicked was written today it wouldve been confirmed gay. ☹
@@whodatninja439 They wouldnt be fighting over a dude then
Elphaba in the book kisses Glinda, and in the show spends all her stage time acting like an awkward closeted bottom, and people will still insist there’s no gayness at all 💀💀
I gagged with the description but it’s honestly so real✋🏻😂
So we’ve all agreed that musical/movie Glinda would be the top 🤭
Dude, I remember walking out of the theatre and being incredibly mad at the ending. So mad, that it made me think of the whole show as bad (I was fourteen, repressing my gayness and very dramatic, don’t @ me). Also, I think I totally suppressed Fiyeros entire existence, because when my mom and I listend to the soundtrack she bought again, like a year ago, and I was reading along with the lyrics on the booklet, I genuinely had no fucking clue who this „Feero“ guy is. My memories of him are blurry at best, to this day. And that’s saying something, because I usually never forget characters.
Funny enough I hated the whole Fiyero and Elphaba plot, but I loved him as a character because I vibed with his whole nihilist dancing through life bullshit. I still think he could have a side plot about being this vain and careless because of anxiety, depression or something instead of the forced romance with Elphaba
Edit: oh I just got to the part that she talks about his existencial crisis, I'm glad I'm not the only one worried about this fictional dumbass' mental health
@@rigelestbit It's not a forced romance. Fiyero & Elphie have a child, Liir.
@TherealRNO book and musical are entirely different. In the musical they don't get a kid, and their arc is rushed and lazily written. Which is what I argue in this video.
The book has a lot of gay and bi characters, and it's left very open to interpretation if Elphaba and Glinda were in love or not (they totally were). The book - and it's sequels - have similar themes but are also really different and it's beautifully written.
@@xdarkbrianx Yeah. I mean, even Liir himself in the sequel "Son of a Witch" is bi, but ultimately, marries coven nursemaid Candle & has green-tinted daughter Rain with her.
As a closeted Lesbian-theatre-nerd, this is my favourite TH-cam Video now. Wicked is my favourite Musical.
Edit: I came out and everyone is ok with it. Yeyyyy!
Aw just now seeing the edit. Real happy for you!
@@BannedFromTheaters Thank you!
Congrats!
Congratulations on coming out and everyone who matters to you was fine with you being a lesbian. You'll be getting your club card and free toaster in the mail in about two weeks. (Lol). I am happy for you.
Heck yeah!
Unrelated, but fun fact: I had a theater teacher at my school who had played Fiyero on Broadway. His boyfriend/husband (not entirely sure if they are married or not) had played the guard who says, “The Wizard will see you now!” Fiyero x Guard is the best ship, actually 😌😆 Anyway, I love this video and how in-depth it goes about the ship and the shit way Broadway works in terms of money and accessibility as a whole.
INCREDIBLE!! Hilariously enough, in my version Wickedly Queer, Fiyero is bearding for Glinda the entire duration of their relationship. Soo, who knows what funky business Fiyero got up to in the Palace. Anyway. Fiyero x Guard is now canon in this version, thank you for coming to my TedTalk. 😆
@@BannedFromTheaters Lol, right! Fiyero x Guard for life! I love your Wickedly Queer!
No one:
Me about to watch an hour long video essay about something I'm already convinced of:
hope you had a good time. ;)
Same
fun fact, i have a best friend and we used to call each other glinda and elphaba. we are both gay now.
FYI, there actually is a term for "word blends." Portmanteau. The particular technique of using portmanteau to unmoor the audience in a fictional otherworld you're describing here is also famously utilized Lewis Carroll's "Alice in Wonderland" books.
Ah yes that'd be one of those specific words I definitely missed out on because English is not my native language. Then again, I'd probably still say "word blends" because fk the french.
@@BannedFromTheaters To be fair, most native English speakers probably don't know this one either, since it's such an obscure topic. Also, lol, sorry, English is a bastard language and French is the baby daddy...or one of them, anyway.
@@BannedFromTheaters You're Swedish, judging from your accent. Could be Dutch, Danish, but I think Swedish. Dutch doesn't have the vocal fry, Danes mumble.
You have some mighty confidence for someone who's wrong. 😂 I'm dutch!
@@annajane8890 French is the flamboyant gay uncle who got roped into babysitting English a bunch while the language was growing up
"repressed gay pining" lmaoooo
24:28 this made me cryyyy😭
Something tells me that the writers of this musical putting the same music cue in those two scenes was a way of them nudging that they wanted galinda and elphaba to be in a relationship all along, but were too afraid that it would make the show less successful.
30:01 the anger I felt here AAAAH C'MON MAN it should've been galinda and elphaba walking together at the end.
None of these connections were accidents; I really think the writers were in favor of elphaba and galinda as a couple, I hope.
This is an incredibly comforting video.
It’s hard to find satisfying amounts of representation in media, especially when it’s buried under copious amounts metaphors.
So thank you because you just made my day a little better
As someone who has never had the chance to see the musical I read the book in middle school (I had no business doing that 😭😭) but I EXPLICITLY remember Fiyero being described as dark skin and as a black girl myself I imagined him a very handsome black man and I imagined his wife to look like a plus sized black woman ( I think I headcasted her amber Reilly or someone close to that) just someone that was a kind maternal figure. But as I got older I started gaslighting myself and wondering if I had lost my mind or something because no one EVER mentions it!! Like no wicked deep dive videos I’ve seen at all, so thank you for bringing light to that aspect.
I read the book immediately after seeing the part 1 movie that just came out.. this has been the most confusing part of the musical/movie to me. Why make Fiero this random white guy?
In the break between act 1 and act 2 my dad was like " is the love story between the girls or the girl and the boy"
pretty much, yes.
Harold, they're lesbians!
Actor here! 🙋🏼♀️ Can confirm. The subtext is very much considered and played out on stage.
I have felt for years that Fiyero getting chucked in there as a serious case of the “not-gays”
For those who don’t know “not-gays” is a term I’m pretty sure was coined by the TH-cam channel RedLetterMedia to describe when two characters of the same sex are close enough and have good enough chemistry that making them gay would be awesome but the writers are nervous about it so they chuck in a random character of the opposite sex to be the love interest to one or both of them to prove to the audience that they are “definitely not gay.”
It is one of the worst cases I’ve ever seen. I never saw the musical before I watched the film and from what I saw they spoke about the romance between fiyero and elphaba so I was excited to see Jonathan be a romantic lead just for me to watch and be like ‘why is he even here?’ It’s pretty clear they are gay as hell he is completely unneeded and they didn’t even try!! I am a lover of romance!! Don’t insult my intelligence!!!
There's this great essay on "Cannibalism and Sapphic Love" featured in Jennifer's Body, Yellowjackets, and House of the Dragon, that brings up how in each of these stories centered around two main female friends-with-chemistry, a male character is introduced as being initially associated with one girl, only to end up somehow involved with the other girl, but still existing as a sort of "shared commodity" that ties the female leads (Chip between Jennifer & Needy in JB, Jeff between Shauna & Jackie in YJ, and Ser Criston Cole between Rhaenyra & Alicent in HOTD). After picking up on the ship-y vibes between Glinda & Elphaba, then quickly seeing Fiyero's function in the story, I immediately wondered if Wicked could count as another example of such a scenario. 🧙♀
He wasn't chucked in there! He's intergeral to the book and cares for Elphaba
Theyre bisexual
@@SpaceandGoats but we aren’t talking about the books. The book was trying to do something different. The musical is literally about Glinda and Elphaba. In the books, Glinda barely shows up after Elphaba leaves Shiz. And Fiyero wasn’t even in the Shiz arc. There were plenty of characters they cut from the books, they could have cut Fiyero. He’s not even part of the wizard of Oz universe anyway.
Really great video! I always interpreted 'What Is This Feeling' as being two characters singing about how they're totally love with each other with the joke of it being them misinterpreting their own feelings as loathing so its funny how the song is "supposed" to be them actually hating each other. Definitely agree with Glinda actually being very intelligent, I think 'Popular' kind of expressing how shes been taught that it doesn't matter shes smart, just that shes popular. So she plays the part that makes people like her. Oh and ever since I found out that in the books Fiyero actually became the next ruler of Oz I felt so confused about why they didn't do that. I think it makes for a much better character arc instead of some forced heterosexual ending.
That actually would be brilliant, the fiaro thing, cos that would be the most perfect resolution to his whole hedonism approach
I remember being so confused, as a little eight year old, that Elpheba told Fiero she was alive but not Glinda and that she ended up with him. I was like but she likes Glinda? Who's Fiero?
“Who’s fiero” is so real haha, I saw the show a few years ago and again a few months ago. In that time I had completely forgotten about the existence of poor fiero lmao
I’d also like to point out that the song “little miss perfect”, specifically the parts after “one night my friend stayed over” which perfectly matches elphaba during “popular”
This is a great spot!
OH MY GOD YOU'RE RIGHT
Reprising "What Is This Feeling" but with "Loving" after Elphaba and Glinda realize they're in love would have been God tier
57:16 holy shit. thanks you for talking about the ableism of nessarose's character. let's not forget about the curing plot, and the trope of disabled people being trapping people in relationships when, in reality, disabled people are more likely to be dependant of potentially abusive partners? also, the fact that her disability being percieved as awful and a flaw is never questionned, and that she is percieved as desirable when cured - if only boq wasn't unnaturally smitten with glinda? the fact it passes under the radar -narratively wise, and for the characters, and for the cast at some extent- is truly heartbreaking. and as you put it, it is literally unreachable for people that are disabled, and it'd be pretty insulting. i think i've seen that your lines of "hideous chair" changed for a complain about lack of ramps (ironic when you know about 2019 tony awards not having ramps for nominated-then-winner ali stroker), but it feels like putting tape over a big water breaking. it is not enough, and it doesn't fix anything. ~~sorry i am editing again, i thought it was an official change~~. i don't even have any idea on how to fix it, to be fair. it's disheartening. boq is, as far as the show (badly and weakly) goes, the best remplacement for a disabled role in this piece of media there is, and even then, it'd be really the bare, facing ground-dust minimum. just don't make us die, don't make us mean and don't cure us disableds isn't supposed to be an unknown, radical take.
also, how come out of the four main female roles, nessarose, aka a plan-b, unliked woman with possessive tendancies, and madame morrible, who is well, madame morrible, are the only ones frequently played by women of color? however, i can't talk on that, as i'm white, so dont hesitate to call me out.
At the time I read this it was late and I wanted to give you a proper reply and then of course, I forgot about it... Oops! But yes, the only reason I actually finished this script (which was lying cold for 8 months at the time) was through the intersectional angle of the "Act II" part of the video. Nessarose being a minor but still very important part of it!
It is clear to me that the writers didn't realize the nasty implications of Nessa's character at the time and simply looked at what worked narratively. And narratively, it *does* work. No matter how many flaws on closer inspection it has, not just for Nessa, but Fiyero being degrading towards himself for being "brainless" -> but then turning out to be the Scarecrow! And Boq seeing Glinda as his manic pixie dream girl and therefore being "heartless" to both Glinda and Nessa -> perfect analogy for the Tinman! Narratively? It *fits*. But only on a surface level.
And like you said, that's not easily changed. You're right the "lack of ramps" was a tweak I made in my Wickedly Queer gifs (in which I make Glinda and Elphaba end up together and Fiyero lead Oz, as I suggested in the video as a more satisfying storyline). And even in the original post I fully acknowledge that this "change" I made for Nessa doesn't really fix anything at all. But the point of those gifsets (and Wickedly Queer as a whole-even the animated version I'm working on currently) is to point out how little you have the change for the story to be far more inclusive.
But you're right, if we really want to change Wicked to be *actually* inclusive, that would basically include rewriting the story from scratch. Something I doubt we'll see in the official Wicked branche any time soon, given how beloved the musical and story is. If you really want to see much more inclusive (and interesting) takes on Wicked, I think turning to fanfiction is currently the only course to go. But that obviously can be a bit of a minefield in itself, because nothing is curated.
Also, I'm white myself and I think going "I can't talk on that" and immediately surrendering yourself to a potential calling out is counterproductive. Combatting racism is *our* responsibility too! But there's obviously a time when to shut up and listen and when to take action. There's a reason why I let Michael Genet (Dr. Dillamond) tell his story almost unedited, because I think it's really important! Same with the several quotes from Alexandra Billings and Brittney Johnson. In that section of the video I let *them* take the lead and build my case around that, because I'm obviously not the first nor only person to note these things! I just happened to make a long video about it. :P
I make a point of saying this because I think your observation about Nessa and Morrible being played "the most" by woc is definitely an important one. Though Elphaba has been played by some Latina women too. (Which makes sense given the demographic in New York) But she's green the entire time of the show... That said, I think Wicked has hid long enough behind the "Galinda is a dumb blonde trope therefore she HAS to be blonde (read: white)" for long enough. It's a lot to put on Brittney Johnson's shoulders, but I do really hope she is the first actress to break that notion and we get more Glindas of colour in the future. She's a magnificent character! And similarly as with the other characters (*cough* Fiyero *cough*) we could use some fresh takes on her!
I'm not disable but I have a friend who has and damn, the ableism in Wicked made it almost unbearable to watch at times.
I see this very differently. Everyone accepts and loves Nessa with her disability. They accommodate for her without question. The headmistress goes as far as to share her quarters with Nessa so as to make things easier. The point of her whole character and arc is that the her use of her legs doesn't hold her back at all--but she has a hard time accepting her internal character flaws so she blames a disability that had nothing to do with the problems she's facing
It's super ironic that they seemed like they were trying to be inclusive within the story but then make the role impossible to play with a disability. And i wasn't aware that people with disabilities "trapping" people was a trope, that's gross and counterfactual, as you laid out
After reading several posts about this topic, and especially Ariana Grande saying she sees Glinda as someone in the closet... it's time to dive deeper into the subject.🤓
God I remember watching Wicked with my friend and our families at age 14 and just barely resisting talking about how gay it was because I didn't want to out myself. Now that we're both 19 and some flavor of lgbt I feel the urge to send this video to her to be like "back then did you notice how gay it was too???"
I loved this video so much!!! It truly boggles my mind how queer coded the story is and how most cishet people don't even pick up on it. Also really appreciated the inclusion part of the video, Nessa's treatmeant in the show is abhorrent and I'm so sick of fantasy stories being metaphors for fictional racism while perpertuating/dismissing real life racism.
If your queer Wicked animation project is still in the works, I'm very interested in the results, no matter how long it takes!!
Either way, thank you for this amazing video, I throughly enjoyed it :)
Oh you should totally send it to your friend! Now I'm curious if she found it gay too haha. :P
And yes, WQ Animated is definitely still a thing (like I said in the video, I *will* finish this project), but it's such an incredibly massive project and I do have a fulltime job now, so I simply can't put in as many hours as I'd like. But it'll will come! I'm aiming before the end of 2021, but no promises. ;)
This is such a good video essay. Maybe a tad detailed but I like it more for that lol. Its like "Wicked for Dummies"
That's definitely on purpose because I wanted this video to be understandable for everyone, even people who haven't even seen Wicked at all!
I haven't seen wicked (except for the newest movie) and I found this essay very eye opening even tho I had these thoughts already in my head
I only listened to the sound track and thought it was a gay show, like openly gay. good to know that the real thing will probably irritate me too much on this point to genuinely enjoy it.
the only production of wicked I've seen (west end) had fiyero played by a black actor, then I watched the film and he was white, then I found out he's been black since the book. It would have been really nice to see film fiyero played by a black actor because that's the version that can be accessed by more audiences and is permanent
“My face is flushing.” Girl you like her!
“What is this feeling.”
LOVE
“LOATHING!”
Oh… okay then
i hadnt watched the musical but had read the book and my friend had watched the musical but had not read the book, and i told her it was gay as hell and she was like "NO ITS N-- wait actually"
hahaha yeeeees!! spread that gay agenda!!
Okay. You already know I adore this entire video but GOD. It's so friggen incredible, Sam. The absolute analysis of it all!! The gay subtext of it all!! A lot of the things you pointed out from the musical are things that I would have never noticed and it blows my mind how many little details there are that create this narrative! And it honestly is just so nice to see our shipping of gelphie be so validated. Like YES YES! THIS IS WHAT WE BEEN SAYING!! And then and theeeennn going into the movie itself? Absolutely *chefs kiss*. And just the amount of dedication and work you put into this...it's so incredible. You're incredibly talented and so creative. And also we LOVE good broadway slam ;) def needs to be said. Because there are systemic things that need to be changed and simply posting "we support gay rights!" or "we support POC!" is not enough. We need action! Like you said "practice what you preach." And I do hope one day Wicked (and broadway as a whole)can create a narrative that is not spoken in just metaphors. That actively addresses these issues and allows for change in the right direction.
From what I remember the book was a lot like this too - HEAVY gelphie vibes that were overshadowed by a sudden romance between Elphie and Fiyero which makes no sense and ends in Fiyero dead lol. So maybe they wrote it like this to match the book in a way? (disclaimer its been a while since i picked up the book) also it may not have looked that good to have Gelphie get together (sad face) because of the popularity of the wizard of oz. Also Fiyero and Elphaba are a lot a like bc they both are impulsive and looking for love in wrong places while Glinda is just like perfect for Elphie cause she gay as hell and is probably never realized it.
I discuss the book later in the video ;) I don't think gelphie got overshadowed by fiyeraba in the book, per se. They were two very different times in Elphaba's life and I do believe she both loved them romantically.
And yes, I also later on in the video mention that in 2003 the world looked a whole lot different. And back then, a love story between Glinda and Elphaba would not have gone down well with the masses, especially because of the Wizard of Oz link. But it's 2020. Wicked is its own mega success and entity in its own right, separate from the Wizard of Oz legacy. And I do believe that if we get a revisioned Wicked musical in the future-and especially looking at potential future adaptations-the creators will look at the romance between Glinda and Elphaba and give it a more prominent and textual presence (instead of subtextual).
Glinda is the classic 30 something who suddenly realises she was a victim of compulsory heterosexuality and was, in fact, gay all along.
She is basically all of us born in the 90’s and fed Nutella & Disney Princesses
@@lent_ils Nutella and Disney Princesses LMAO
@@gracegillies5161 Don’t forget the latter programming that made being gay even cooler than that! Lol
@@gracegillies5161 Yet, even despite higher-up executives cancelling it, we've Lumity from _The Owl House_ as the first canonical bi (Luz) X lesbian (Amity) couple in a show developed for DISNEY.
I'm not English person so when i first listened "what is this feeling" I thought they sing about "loving". loathing and loving are really pronounced similar
Yes, I'm not English either and I totally agree!! The staging and melody also seems to indicate "loving" instead of loathing, making the mistake even more common!
Is your username Chinese or Korean? (Forgive me if that's Japanese)
@@BannedFromTheaters That's done purposely for teasing. It's basically queerbaiting.
we sang For Good in choir and it was funny how everyone was like obviously this is a love song and the choir teacher was like no they were just roommates
"history will say they were roommates" - that never gets old. 😂😂
PLEASE IVE BEEN TELLING THIS TO ANYONE WHO WOULD LISTEN FOR YEARS YOURE SO RIGHTTT
omg i thought i was the only one who hated “it’s looking at things another way.” LIKE JUST TELL HER THAT SHE’S BEAUTIFUL AJSJAIASJSJSJS
The fact we could’ve had a yuri wicked musical 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ this really could’ve been sooo good
Elphaba: kiss me goodbye
the-likely non-existent cause all of us are gay-homophobic or just cluelessly cishet theatere people: ah yes what great best friends
The first time I heard the Defiying Gravity song I was like, 11 and in a dance class. It had been one of the instructors favorites and I just remember they played the song so much I was sick of it.
But one day I actually took the time to listen to the song and what they were singing and I just remember being mad and confused as to why the other singer(glinda) didn't go with her "friend". Cause it was pretty obvious to me that whoever the characters were carried for each other a lot, which made me assume they were sisters (cause gayness didn't exist in my head at the time).
However I looked up the musical some years later when homosexuality did become a thing for me and immediately concluded that they were gay and should've gotten together.
My first exposure to this musical was the song loathing, and with just that I was like yeah of course, they are gonna end up together. I was baffled when I realized that they don't end up together. I love analyzing stories and tropes and stuff too, and like the loathing song, like you said, is so obviously the set up to an enemies/rivals to lovers type romance.
Watching Wicked the first time I figured if it was so popular for so long it must not have any big flaws but I have a really hard time excusing Fiyero.
“Wicked is Gay.”
Me who thought this was common knowledge: *Yes, and?*
Common sense is not well-known among the homophobes
@@zinkheroofyoutube8004 some people also just arent that obsessed with Wicked lmao be fair
Also "Yes, and?" is a title of one of Ariana's songs! XD
Enjoyed this detailed and fascinating analysis! The musical is near and dear to my heart, but for me the relationship between Elphaba and Glinda is the only relationship I really care about when seeing the show. Nothing against Fiyero per se, but your take on the relationships between the characters as portrayed in the musical is spot on. Fiyero's character would be much better served if the ending had happened the way you suggest (and this would align with The Wizard of Oz film ending, as well, in terms of what becomes of the Scarecrow). Meantime, Elphaba and Glinda would have the relationship that suits them best, as well.
GREAT video, i have actually teared up many times while watching it
A wonderfully insightful analysis of my absolute favourite musical. You must have worked really hard to make this. (The amount of editing alone I can't even) I enjoyed it a lot. So thank you!
Maybe this is because when I discovered Wicked I was high schooler only just realizing I was maybe asexual- but I always interpreted I'm Not That Girl (and all of Elphaba and Fiyero's relationship) to be an attempt by Elphaba to deny her feelings toward Glinda. A sort of "Ha...ha...Im not gay, see, I have boyfriend!!" perhaps similar to how I told my family I had a crush on this guy mainly because I thought i was SUPPOSED to, not because I actually did.
What supported my theory was Elphaba DESCRIBING Glinda in the song- "Blithe smile, lithe limb, gold hair with a gentle curl"- it just felt way too poetic and felt like the writers were nudging the audience to "hey, Elphie doesnt REALLY love Fiyero in THAT way, her true romantic feelings are for Glinda"
The Oz series is very queer coded. If it was written today, Dorothy and her friends would be practically skipping down the yellow brick road waving a rainbow flag. There are some very lovey scenes between Tin man and Scarecrow. Ozma and Dorothy are practically dating. Frex (Elphabas "father") was in a sexual affair with Turtle heart. Liir (Elphaba and Fyeros son) is at least bisexual and possibly gay. Glinda remenisces of her time with Elphaba with love. Maguire acts like its scandalous and "naughty"
Also Elphaba was intersex. But again, Maguire treats it as a dirty secret
You guys know how they said in the video that Glinda’s pining for Elphaba in the book is more apparent than any pining Elphaba may have for her, but in every Gelphie video of the Broadway production they always address Elphie’s gay panic 💀 it’s almost like they reversed it to make up for the amorous ambiguity
Curious fact: I'm from Brazil and have seen the two versions of wicked here. The last Fiyero was a black man and honestly the best. A powerhouse voice, great actor and really brought the charisma the character needed
Prepare to get ✨a lot✨ of views thanks to the new movie. And thank you so much for this new comfort video.
@@HarveyDentalfloss oh the daily viewership has been going up for weeks already 😉
@@BannedFromTheatersdependendo de como o roteiro do filme vai ser, talvez você precise fazer um segundo vídeo entitulado "the Wicked movie is even gayer" (estou torcendo por isso)
Coming back here to mourn cuz the movie wasn't gay enough for me.
Totally agree, but also the movie somehow was more gayer than I expected (THE DANCE SCENE)
@@grecia3146 I'm a straight girl with limited knowledge of the Wicked musical (POTO is my domain) and I *immediately* picked up on the ship-y vibes between them. Glinda's first flashback shown of Elphaba is (the back of) their hands touching, her obvious mourning, the "physical symptoms" they bring about in each other in "What is This Feeling?", the dance (again, with so much emphasis on touching!), the fact that they *literally* run out of the club together leaving Fiyero behind and then stay up all night getting to know each other, Elphaba's insistence that Glinda accompany her to the Emerald City (while having no issue saying good-bye to Fiyero), the amount of times they reach for/hold hands during "One Short Day," them clearly seeing the EC trip as a bonding experience that reaffirms their friendship, and then to top it all off: Elphaba proposing to Glinda that they run away out West together and be powerful, Glinda sadly refusing, and then the obvious heartbreak they express knowing this is it for them (I legit almost cried). Plus, after watching the movie, I realized the poster of their arms outstretched is essentially representative of Glinda reaching out to the memory of Elphaba (considering she's in her Good Witch of the North dress), but never quite touching, and if that's not supposed to carry lost love/thinking back to What If? vibes...
Maybe they can fix it for the movie, apparently they are making new songs so.....I'm expecting a love story between Glinda and Elphaba, or please hope they actually include the kiss they shared in the book for the movie
And give them a single bed at Shiz University, too, with Glinda straddling Elphie.
I would love to see it I’m just so not here for the meltdowns of people who think “they make everything gay now” because they don’t look at the source material. They did the same with the color purple that came out🤦🏾♀️
@@briatucker4588 omg yes they are so annoying the movie is already getting hate because of "wokism" they don't even know what it means
THEY DID WHAT IN THE BOOK???? HOLY- I NEED TO READ THAT ASAP
@@celinnec.valdez9995 Just forwarning: The book is dark. The musical & film are sacchirine by comparison.
Wicked has been one of my favorite musicals ever since I was a kid and it still is probably my favorite musical ever, and that's largely been because of the beauty in Glinda and Elphaba's relationship, which I especially connected with around the time I realized I was gay. I will wait anxiously for Wickedly Queer because I know it's going to be awesome. This was an amazing video that just further solidified how gay I knew this play was, and I can't wait to see what new projects you make!
i saw wicked recently and every supposed love scene with fiyero practically had me all snuggled up in bed snoozing bored waiting for the next scene between glinda and elphaba.. if i were fighting with someone and they tenderly touched my hand i don't think i'd suddenly fall in love and sing a romantic song about it on the ground
Just watched the Wicked movie and I’m back to Gelphie. So glad this video was created, LOVE IT
You mentioned not knowing what the link was re Jews and the colour green. There's a notable painting called "Jew in Green" (1914) by the Jewish artist, Marc Chagall, which I think has a lot of subtexts. He also painted "Green Lovers", "The Old Jew" etc.
Then have a look at Picasso's "Old Jew and a Boy" (1903).
Hmmm. Once you know, you'll see it a lot - there's even a plant called "Green Wandering Jew"!!
Oh good to know! I definitely didn't want to dismiss the argument (or else I wouldn't have included it), but I just couldn't find articles that were explicitly talking about this.
But looking at the artwork, seems like it could be a mighty interesting video essay! But probably for someone else, because art history isn't my speciality ;) Thanks for sharing though!
@@BannedFromTheaters I am glad to have been of help 😊.
Also, the second book is really gay tho xD
The son of Elphaba literally has a lover!!
Actually, Liir's bi. He's with a gay solider in his father Fiyero's army, gets amnesia, is cared for by coven nursemaid Candle (his future wife) & has daughter Rain with Candle. Rain herself has a love interest who basically redoes the "Tip-is-secretly-Ozma" reveal, more or less.
As for the intersectionality of Broadway part- I think a big part of the issue is the commercial nature of Broadway and how young the genre is. Every time Shakespeare or Euripides is performed, it's completely reinvented, for better or for worse. This is possible because these stories are in the creative commons, so everybody can do as they please with them. Every time a big-name musical like Wicked or Phantom is performed, it is exactly the same (very few non-replica productions aside). It has to be, as decided by Cameron Mackintosh and other rights holders. I think the genre of musical theatre would really, _really_ benefit from more fluidity in adaptations, like the traditional world of text theatre already has. This would allow not only for more diverse castings, but for more diverse and intersectional ways to reimagine the stories that have shaped this genre as a whole.
ive watched this video so many times over the past couple of years. this is probably my favourite video essay on youtube ever.
its also a comfort video for me.
a true masterpiece.
thankyou for making this :)
Oh my god someone put the vindication gif here because I never liked that "just looking at things another way" line and I tried, I triedddd to like it so much
I saw Wicked in Melbourne last night, and while I loved it something was bothering me about Fiyero and his place in the show, especially while watching the finale. You perfectly unpacked it in the first half of part 1. Everything his and Elphaba's dynamic does Glinda and Elphaba do far better. On top of that, he does little else in the second act except drive a wedge between the witches and bail Elphaba out multiple times and it felt... Lazy. His whole emotional arc from the interval onward is "I love Elphaba" and that's it. We don't even get to see how he feels about joining Boq and the mob during the Witch Hunt number, he's not even mentioned despite the fact he should be there as per the source material.
Yeah, I feel your frustration. Like, sure, I get that you kinda want to keep Fiyero's motivations hidden because it would bring the momentum you get from NGD onwards to such a grinding halt. But still, his motivations are so clearly "I'm playing double agent bc I love Elphaba". And it's so boring and LAZY and UGH!!!
Glinda and Elphaba deserved to kiss and Fiyero just deserved better and borh can be pretty easily fixed which makes it all the more frustrating. 😅
The Talking Belgian Waffle is teaching me more than literature class ever will
_Belgian_ Waffle?? Be careful, calling a Dutch person Belgian and calling a stroopwafel (a Dutch delicacy!) a Belgian Waffle is like declaring war. 😉😂
@@BannedFromTheaters oh shit my apologies Mighty Stroopwafel. I promise to never repeat this terrible affront. Btw I loved your video and although I misnamed them stroopwafels are actually so good, O terrible and delectable one.
I've always wondered why I never liked act 2 of Wovked that much and it's because of freaking Fyerio! He's more or less off to the side in act 1 but he becomes a thorn in my side when act 2 starts. He literally causes Elphaba and Glinda to reduce their friendship to fighting over a man all of act 2 and it's annoying. Hell he literally makes Glinda think Elphaba had been betraying her the entire story.
Danke for including the most amazing Elphaba in the world, the incomparable Willemijn Verkaik in your video. I watched her perform on Broadway opposite Alli Mauzzey. This pairing’s on stage chemistry was 🔥.
I remember listening to For Good for what must have been the hundred time and going 'oh' and then playing it on repeat because I suddenly saw the gay (the closet is a powerful thing)
Although hot take this musical could also work as poly 🤷🏼♀️
Wow, this is AMAZING! Thank you for all the time you took to make this!
A must watch for any Wicked fan! Thank you for pointing out so many intricate details within the musical I never thought twice about. It was such an interesting video and enjoyed every second of it. WICKED IS GAY
59:44 I'M SORRY BUT IS GLINDA PLAYING WITH ELPHIBA'S HAIRRRR?!?!? that is super gay
I noticed that too!.
Haven’t even finished the video yet but it’s FANTASTIC
Thank you for writing this, it's incredibly informative and very entertaining! I'm always learning how my favorite media as a kid is queer coded, and it's fascinating to learn more of the background/dig into the text. All of your work is very much appreciated!
No wonder with promotion interviews Ariana kept on hinting that Glinda is closeted.
can i just say- i’m back here after some 8 weeks into the ao3 gelphie tag and i have to admit i am completely changed by this mystical experience and ALSO i’m so eager for this project of yours! i hope it’s coming along well! honestly i don’t want the wicked movie, i want your movie instead, it sounds like you know your stuff IM SOLD.
ah yes the ao3 gelphie tag, my *other* home haha. You might have actually read some of my work in that case! :P
Yeah, I think the general consensus in the fandom is that we don't want a wicked live action movie (though the new director is giving me the smallest hint of hope), but if it *has* to be a movie, it should be 2D animated.
I wouldn't mind a 4 season/part series where we dive deep into wicked books, aimed at adults so we can get into the gritty world Maguire created. Wouldn't mind 2D animated here either, but maybe this would lend itself well for live action.
The Wicked movie / series above all else, needs to reinvent the story as both Wicked the book and musical has done! *That* is the legacy of Wizard of Oz/Wicked!
The process is slow, but I'm working on WQ animated! :) I'm currently halfway done with the first act! So don't forget to subscribe or whatever works for you so you won't miss it when I put it online ;)
@@BannedFromTheaters i agree with everything you said!! i also would like something reinvented like you said, i’m not even sure i want it in a musical format (i fear the cats curse...). oh my god, what’s your name/account on ao3? i didn’t know you had material there! i’m definitely going to check it out!
@@lent_ils it's tinyace. got a bunch of multichapter stuff there ;)
@@BannedFromTheaters ooh i did read something of yours then! i read Glowing straight after i read out of oz (and loved it!) and the 3-part dutch high school AU was the next one in my queue 😍 wow i had no idea it was you!
@@lent_ils well happy reading to you! ^^ hope you like my stories and there are loads of other great gelphie fics out there!
This is amazing! It‘s 2am and I’ve got work but it’s so SO worth being hella tired!!!
That's sweet!! Hope you're not as tired today :P
hey it’s 3AM and i have online school starting at 8:30AM but i’m watching this 🎊🎉🎊🎉
1AM for me:D loving this
doing my yearly rewatch of this gem and i can only say it gets better with each viewing ^_^
After years, I finally took the time to watch this entire video in one sitting. and BOI was it worth my time!!!
The first part got me kicking my feet because of how much I love gelphie, and how you got SO MANY ARGUMENTS FOR IT!
The last part of the video was incredibly educational and should be played everywhere.
THANK YOU for this.
While I agree with all other points, I would argue that Fiyero didn't find the resolution to his character development in Elphaba, but rather in the ideals Elphaba stands for. She is fighting for something and when he fights for that thing with her it gives him purpose. This is juxtaposed against him with Glinda trying to put up pretenses to please a crowd and meaninglessness of it all to him. It brings him no fulfillment whereas standing with Elphaba against all of Oz brings him life and makes things matter.
Meanwhile, I feel like both Elphaba and Galinda are both simultaneously trying to use him as their rebound date to get over their massive crush on each other. Honestly, if Fiyero was even a little smarter, he would have locked his two friends in a closet until they kissed so he could have some peace of mind. I suppose he doesn't need peace of mind, though, once he becomes a scarecrow.
absolutely insane this doesn't have more views. Your vids are amazing thank you I'm looking forward to watching more :))!!
728 replays?
And I made like 0.5% of them...
better get on that ;)
@@BannedFromTheaters back after a year, congratz for the 10K
Just watched a bootleg of Wicked last night, and eventually looked for a gay analysis. This is one of my favorite youtube videos to exist!
This is fantastic! I wish I could invite a bunch of people to a room, close the doors, and screen this for them so they understand exactly why Wicked is so very important to me. The first time I saw the musical I was very newly gay and not out, and I left gasping and ranting about how it was a phenomenal love story and how Glinda was absolutely wronged with the way she’s viewed by most. I just got back from seeing the musical again after a long time with my mother who years later I am now out to and it just transformed me back to that time of having every light in my head just click on. That’s a feeling I will never forget, and this analysis reminds me so much of my journaling after seeing wicked that very first time. Thank you for your hard work!
also, thanks for including MK and GC. They really drove it home for me in terms of “how gay do the actresses play it” and I wish i could go back to when they were touring and re-live their magic.
21:40 am I the only one who when watching it thought like "..why don't all 3 of them get together in the end???"
Nah, that is a fairly popular ship in the Fandom as well.
All the views towards this important video in a gold mine time of new subtext takes!!
WELL SAID👏👏 I’m impressed by the observation on Elphaba’s leitmotif, specifically the jingly sounds playing before it 30:28
At 26:18 - 26:40 this is said "This includes the magical f-ing hand touches! Their first meeting? Hand touch. Glinda's apology? Touch. Their reconciliation? Hand touch. Hand touch. Hand touch. Hug. Hand touch. Cowering behind your girlfriend. Hand touch. Hug! Hand. Touch. The notable absence of the hand touch."
And let me tell you....
I laughed so hard that the people around me looked up and were like... Are you ok? I also might have more like laugh-cried.... Not to mention i played over that section like 50 time just repeatedly making myself fall over laughing... Great job on everything but especially that! 😂
Edit: "The first time elphaba comes on stage in act 2 she literally comes out out of a closet" that was funny but what really got me was 33:54 "I cant even make this sh-t up if i wanted to." I already knew that, that happens in Wicked but you pretty much summed it up perfectly! 😂
Edit: Also i can confirm as a Bisexual that at 52:45 -52:54 it is so freaking true... that was wayyyyy too on the nose. 😅
elphaba’s crochet mini beanie is hilarious
I loved this video! Very thorough, and I love how you didn't just focus on the queerness in the text of Wicked itself, but also on the broader context in the history of Oz's different adaptations leading to this one and on the context of Broadway and its workings.
Every time I think of Wicked now I'm gonna picture a little animated waffle pointing at a white board insisting forcefully, "Wicked... is GAY." 🤣 thank you for that
Edit - probably not a waffle, sorry lol
It's a stroopwafel (a Dutch delicacy) so you're not that far off. ;)
I'm hoping so bad that in the movie Elphaba and Glinda get together
As a person who only knows wicked From three songs, (all mentioned as the strongest points for them being gay) I was genuinely so confused when my Dad said Wicked wasn't gay. Watching this amd learning about it not only not being gay but having a poorly shoehorned I hetero romance made me legitimately angry. It was gay in the book and everything was stack for them to be together but the musical they just don't
Wicked's tour is about to stop nearby and I'll be working merch during some shows. I try to do research on shows I'm working and am so glad to have this video recommended to me.
They are still selling the "Friends of Elphaba" Pride shirt which I was really excited about, and still am to an extent, but part of me does feel tokenized being a black queer woman myself.
(also there's an Elphaba x Fiyero snowglobe for sale but at least Fiyero has melanin)
While I do understand your dislike of Fiyero's and Elphaba's relationship (because I don't care for it either) I feel like you're reducing their arc a bit, the reason why Fiyero starts liking and appreciating Elphaba is because of the kind of person she is, she makes him want to think and helps him to reconnect with his capacity for empathy! That's the point of Wicked, that Elphaba has a lasting impact on both Fiyero and Glinda
While I do dislike the ending and completely agree with you about Glinda's and Elphaba's relationship being established better and earlier, some of the reasons why Fiyero feels fulfilled when he's with Elphaba are not that shallow as to "get with a less pretty girl"
That's the reason Fiyero starts looking for Elphaba after they save the lion's cub
This probably wasn't the first iteration but there is a song called little sir hugh where a young boy is lured to a castle and murdered by a "lady dressed in green," in a way that perpetuates antisemitic myths. The song is based on a boy of the same name whose death was falsely blamed on jewish people in the mid 1200s.
Thank you for this well put video and i love the arguments you pointed out. No one could have said it better :) You are doing gods' work.
Very interesting analysis and video. Can you remind me of many subtle moments and nuances that I had completely forgotten. Great job!
I've never been to theatre before, and only watched Wicked with my friends, three days ago. It was such a wonderful play except I couldn't stand that "main romance" is this much dull and thin. Then I thought I might be doing femslash again(happens all the time) since I'm lesbian. Well, Fiyero! Thinking of his role and position in Wicked, I honestly felt the ending was wrong. But none of my friends agreed with me. So I went searching surfing the internet...... and found this gem. This is fascinating. Beautiful. Thank you so much.
You're definitely not the only one!! A ton of queer people have seen what you and I saw so you're in very good company. Maybe show your friends this video? It could change their minds (or at least make them more open to your position! ;))