Controlling an enclosure heater and silicon bed heater with a Duet board.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2024
- In this video I show the process of controlling a 1000W enclosure heater and 1000W bed heater with a Duet board. This might be a bit overkill, but now I'm sure I'm going to get that enclosure up to temperature. Hardware wise everything works so I can add this and connect everything once my enclosure parts arrive. I still have to fine-tune the PID and I'm going to do that once everything is built in. I hope you enjoy watching this video and let me know if you have any questions or suggestions!
The live feed with Creality: • LIVE:Foldable Ender 3 ...
The sources I used:
configtool.reprapfirmware.org...
duet3d.dozuki.com/Guide/1.)+G...
duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Instal...
duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Connec...
duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#...
duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Tuning...
reprap.org/wiki/RepRap_Firmwa...
If you want to buy this huge printer yourself or something else, please use one of my referral links so I can get rich:
The CR-10 S5
www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-...
The CR-10
www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-...
The Ender 3 pro
www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-...
Music from Epidemic sound. Want a subscription yourself? Please use this referral link to support me: www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
Please consider buying me a coffee if you liked it or helped you :) ko-fi.com/properprinting/
I place photos of the projects I am working on here too at random to get you excited with what has to come!
The link to my website: properprinting.pro/
Software used for making this video:
- Mechanical design: Fusion 360 www.autodesk.com/products/fus...
- Illustrations: Inkscape inkscape.org/
- Laser engraving: Lightburn lightburnsoftware.com/
- Slicer: Simplify3D www.simplify3d.com/
- Video editing: Davinci Resolve www.blackmagicdesign.com/
- Screen recording: Captura github.com/MathewSachin/Captura/
- Audio recording: Audacity www.audacityteam.org/
- Photo enhancing: rawtherapee.com/
-Terminal: Termite www.compuphase.com/software_t... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Hi everyone, fortunately I survived this one xD Not everyone watches this to the end so to those people: I forgot to upload the configuration bundle at first (very stupid) and it is possible to use PID for controlling a heater with a SSR.
I’m going to do PID tuning when everything is in the enclosure together with the fans because that’s going to be the real situation. If something isn’t clear, just leave a message and I hope you enjoy this video. Have an awesome day!
@@el0nmusk360 actually yes, it came from the future🤣
I like your content and the way you also show your errors. I was wondering where you can purchase these heaters and ssr's. I am from the Netherlands as well. I want to get those for my printer as well. Keep the videos coming, I love them!
Gebruik aub nooit geen spanning zoeker meer.
Love it, Dive in slosh about and come out smiling. Thats the way chaos becomes logical.
there is no such thing as "too much" or "over-engineered" in my book. can't wait to see it fully done.
Great video. You make all this seem so easy :-), but still show that it is hard work...
Some stuffs I would do if doing your project:
- Uses the back of your hand to "check" if a wire is live. Otherwise, if the wire is live, it may cause your hand muscle to contract with a death grip around the live wire...
- Uses neon bulb indicator after the relay so that you can visually check if the 220V is live or not. They can work directly with 220V.
- Buy yourself a non contact voltage detector "pen". They are much more reliable than those old screw driver (that my father also taught me to use, and I've always had trouble to see the light), make noise, have a clearly visible light, and are much safer to use as they don't require contact (they detect the EMF variation caused by the AC). And they are cheap, so no excuse for not having one.
- Uses a (resettable) thermal fuse or something like that to shutdown the heater in case of overheat (if temperature sensor or controller go wrong).
Never change your editing style. I love it.
Great video. You go the extra mile producing these films. Mahalo for sharing! : )
Another great video! currently playing around with enclosure designs myself and I can't wait to see what you do with this!
Thanks, that awesome Cody! I really like how the designs has turned out, but I have to get it to work too of course xD
Im really excited to see what you do for the enclosure, i really liked your ender 3 enclosure design
I cannot wait for those parts and start working on it! This one is going to be a little different xD
Good video and it was nice to see you on the Live stream... you are really creative :)
The part with the 'reenactment' cracked me up! I just know the pain too well to be honest and it really makes you swear like that xD
Haha nice! It was pretty difficult to do this acting to make it convincing xD
@@properprinting Well it was at an Electroboom level for sure! De woorden die eruit kwamen in het Nederlands maakten het nog beter.
@@wpigot Wow thanks! Ik hoef het Nederlandse ook niet weg te bliepen, dat scheelt xD
Great design
Looking forward to see the finish build
Thanks for sharing :-)
I cannot wait for those parts to arrive! :D
I having a great day now I watched this can’t wait to see how it turns out
Awesome that you're having a great day now! I cannot wait for those parts to arrive!
Love your videos man, you're growing fast!
Thanks Vincent! It's becoming easier with every video :D
Love your vids man! Really cool ideas! Looking forward to the enclosure.
Thanks Rod! I really cannot wait for those parts!
Hi, I like your channel very much, it's not so polished like others and you are not ashamed to show failures also. So it's fun and informative to watch.
As I'm also a big friend of the Duet stuff, I highly recommend you to use FW version 3.x. It gives one a lot more flexibility with the new object model.
So stay like you are, great style and content and best of luck.
Awesome! I'm glad that leaving in the failures is well received. I make a lot of them and learn from them too ;) Thanks for your suggestion, I'm going to take a look into that :D
Again when you know when someone is swearing in their native tongue you know whats up!
Great video as always!
Keep it up John
Thanks Pascal!
This channel is great, you do some awesome stuff (the Ender 3 pro is smart by the way)
Great video as always Jón. :) Love the humor too.
Thanks Thomas!
Nice to see you have moved on from the Woodwork and are tackling the metalwork sphere now :)
I hope to do a lot more metal work in the future, I was a conventional metal worker in precision mechanics ;) I just need the proper tooling now haha xD
Great video once again, and a bit more fun for the dutch viewers
Thanks Niccolo! I'm wondering how Dutch swearing sounds to an American person xD
In a few years (or maybe earlier): I made a hadron collider and we will print the atoms of gold (or the entire table of elements). Cool! Success in development and less shocked fingers!
We're working our way towards that! :D
@@properprinting 👍
It’s incredible that no matter how smart the human being could be it always has the necessity of doing silly things. Why in the h#ll would you touch with your fingers having so many tools to test that?. So funny you did it, made made day because I also do stupid things sometimes. Excellent video. Congrats for your recognition from Creality, well deserved man. Cheers from Argentina 🇦🇷🤙🏻
Sometimes you have to be a bit silly xD As long as it isn't stupid haha I'm so happy that Creality has recognized my work, so awesome! Thanks!
You are one funny Dutchman. Groete uit Suid Afrika🤣👌
Another awesome video Jon, love your content, haha.
Thanks James!
One more great video m8, you surprise us every time with your knowledge and pushing the envelope in the 3d printing community. Exited to see that mega enclosure working. Can you please post the link of your live session with Creality?
Thanks! I'm dying to start on that enclosure! I've added the link to the description and you can find it here :) th-cam.com/video/T8zv4TOwh6o/w-d-xo.html
"I always wanted to say that" is the part where I decided to do it on my own!
Noo way! This is what I was looking for!
Haha, just uploaded this at the right time then ;) That's awesome! I hope this video can be of any help :)
SSR, not being a traditional relay with an air gap, will always leak some current when off. This is not an issue w/ normal 24V printer heaters. You have an extra need for safety when dealing w/ mains AC. I use a pair of SSR on my water heater. There's always 240V on the terminals since solid state devices don't have an air gap interruptor. The leakage current is mA, but can still be dangerous/deadly. It only takes mA to stop your heart in certain conditions.
Pro tip: ALWAYS keep your left hand away from electricity (in your pocket as electricians say) as nerves in the left arm pass close to those for the heart.
That's a good tip! I intentionally used only one hand so if there would be any current flowing is would have been through my hand and not through my chest. This hurts but doesn't kill. The leakage current is pretty high actually..
This enclosure will be crazy once it's done. I actually just finished converting my printers to Duet boards and really like it - much easier to use than Marlin. What material are you planning to try printing the wheels in? A heated enclosure should allow for a lot of exotic materials.
It sure will :) It's surprisingly easy indeed, I'm happy with my decision! I'm going to start with ABS because that's affordable. Next on my list would be Nylon, then Nylon with CF and I'm thinking of using polycarbonate. I hope I don't have to make it to PEKK or Ultem, but I cannot exclude that xD
I accidentally used the same SSR type to switch my 12V hotends. Guess what. They did not turn off, due to the lack of AC. :) Tock me some time to find out the reason and to notice I ordered the wrong set of SSRs. Worked fine for my 230V heat bed and now I have some spares. Using PID and it drives up to the target temp without overshoot. Just make sure to connect earth or you get zapped in the future, anyway. :)
Funny that you've had this problem! I found out about this when making a test system at my work. I disabled that SSR and I still measured 230V. I used extra standard relays to really turn it off xD Nice that you've managed to control it with PID without overshoot! The enclosure will be made out of a lot of aluminum and I'll make sure all panels are connected to earth properly ;) This is also to prevent electrocution when a live wire springs loose and touches the enclosure
You went a bit ElectroBoom there, Jon! I was thinking about an AC bed mod. I'm used to SSRs from my brewing.
Did you insulate the aluminium extrusion frame from the heat bed because it can act as a heat sink if attached directly to the bed leading to bed heat inconsistencies
Hey Jon, mooi! :-) Don't forget that the screen cable connecting the PanelDue with the Duet needs to be *very* short - anything longer than 20cm will not work, in my experience...
Thanks a lot for mentioning this! This is exactly what I was wondering and now I don't have to make that mistake :D
"not only could this kill you, it will hurt the whole time you're dying." As seen on a warning sign.
Haha yes I've seen that sign, that's a nice one xD Not the act itself of course haha
hi
where did you buy that heater? do you have high temp fans that go with it?
thanks
btw you can use PID with the Duet, just set the frequency to something like 10Hz. `M307 F10` This is default for the bed output in RepRapFirmware 2.x but not 3.x. (edit: good on ya, but you need to specify it for E1 heater)
Exactly what I found out in the last part of this video ;)
nice video! Where did you buy that heater?
Yet again a great video from you! (Dont kill yourself on your endeavors) :)
Thanks! I'll do my best xD
Weer een goede video, met het hoogste niveau humor tussendoor, GOUD! Lekker gedaan pik! :D
Bedankt man! Ik vond het onderwerp zelf wat aan de saaie kant dus heb het een beetje opgespiced xD
Hi! Could you share what heater element you have bought? Where can i find what you are using? I have cr-10s at enclosure but need heater for chamber too. Your vids are awesome!!
This is the one :D nl.rs-online.com/web/p/air-heaters/3742319/
John was aan het kijken naar je food printer attachment, ik zat te denken kun je geen chocolade gebruiken bruin wit en zo om dingen te printen? Als je het verwarmt dan smelt het.
Enige is dat je dan ipv het bed moet verwarmen moet koelen.. wat ook wel weer een leuke uitdaging kan zijn. "Tempering Chocolate
" geloof ik heet dat. Keep it up!
Je hebt me op een idee gebracht! Denk dat het best interessant kan zijn om peltier elementen te gebruiken. Als je het bed omdraait heb je koud boven en andersom. Bedankt man!
@@properprinting your welcome ;-) voor op de groeiende lijst
What heater did you use, I'd like to try one.
I also added thermal fuse under the bed
I definitely should add them for extra safety
Yeah man, a/c power hurts. The last time I got juiced was by 36 volt a/c after I didn't ground my ssr right. The tingle bought back too many bad memories of getting zapped by 120v. I can only imagine how bad 240 is.
I definitely wouldn't recommend😅
You should do a electronics basics/intermediate series
You just gave me an interesting idea for a new video series, thanks!
@@properprinting cool!
@@properprinting if you're planning on doing something like this, I advise you don't do core basics. Since most viewers are already familiar with that
Proper Printing split any video in two parts ‚how you should do it‘ , ‚how real men do it‘ 😀
What is the size of that heated bed you used? Is it 400x400mm?
just use a 24v DC contactor for this purpose, works as a relay, is more robust.
Warning Mains Voltage. Please use: Grounding! Fuse! One time Temp Fuse!
Make shore you have RCCB relay in your house electric system :)
Where can I find the link of you being live with creality you mentioned @ 13:56? :)
I just have added a card where I mentioned that :) You can find it here th-cam.com/video/T8zv4TOwh6o/w-d-xo.html
4:45
Hi.
How are you going to deal with running steppers in heated chamber? They are definitely going to overheat.
I'm going to cool them ;)
Hi Jon ,
What is the thickness of the aluminium bed you are attaching the heater to?
Is it cast aluminium (not rolled, also called "tooling plate")?
Rolled aluminium will warp with higher temperatures, due to internal stresses caused by the fabrication process
Why do you attach reinforcements bars under the bed?
Hi Rob. It's a 3mm thick rolled aluminum plate. The plate including those profiles are standard with the S5, at least with the one I received. I didn't think of the warping and I hope I can cope with it. It will be fixed without springs with a glass plate on top, but I'll keep in mind that I might need a tooling plate, thanks for the info!
Anyway, if you get a 5 or 6 mm thick tooling plate for bed, you can also do away with those reinforcements under the bed, allowing you to get a larger heater and thus heating the bed more evenly
I got my toolng plate from this address:
www.clickmetal.co.uk/aluminium-tooling-plate
However they will not send their products abroad (manufactured in Great Britain) and they did not respond to my emails.
So you have to find someone who lives in England to send it to you or use a shipping company.
There is also a company in Groningen that sells toolingplate but their products cost more than twice the price the English tooling plate costs.
And at least this year the Dutch can profit from the fact that de brexit rules have not been implemented on British export
I also got some samarium-cobalt (SmCo) magnets from AliExpress to embed in the tooling plate
Thesse magnets can with stand 360° Celsius and will hold steelflex printing surface very well
I got my custom 1300 watt 500 by 500 mm silicone heater from
li (at) alirubber.com.cn
These solid state relays leak a bit... enough to make advanced Dutch words come out :D PID control also drives 0 or 100%, in that way it's not different to Bangbang control. But PID switches much more often. The solid state relay only switches on and off at zero crossings, which occurs 100x per second. Combined with PID control this could give a bit of unexpected driving, but PID is dynamic, so it will correct for it.
Thanks for your comment, as far as I know and what I understand of this source reprap.org/wiki/RepRap_Firmware_heating PID uses a PWM signal at 10Hz for those heaters so it's compatible with an SSR. I didn't know that when I started the video
@@properprinting Yes, you mentioned this in the video. The only problem is the zero crossing, which causes the pulses to be inaccurate. A short pulse could result in no power at all if the pulse has no overlap with a zero-crossing, or a half sine wave if it overlaps. But PID is dynamic and will handle this quite well because the heater is "slow" anyway. Leuk kanaal!
will you be adding watercooled components ?
Oh yeah!
Nice, dus het is gelukt om contact te krijgen met creality over je foldable printer?
Ja! Sterker nog, zij hebben mij benaderd :D
Hi! Where did you find this HUGE silicon heater?
reprapworld.com/products/buildplate/heaters/silicone_heater_mat_including_thermistor_240v_1000w_40x40cm/ I've read though that shipping doesn't come cheap in some countries so be beware of that :)
What type of heater is that, and where did you source it from?
It's a 1kW strip heater from RS components nl.rs-online.com/web/p/heating-elements/3742319/
I need that song
What kind of heater is that?
That voltage you see is the result of induction noise from the wires inside the walls, that's pretty normal, the current is very very low since the resistance is very very hight, that's why when you touch the wires you don't get shocked, because at that moment all the very very very small current goes throw your fingers and the voltage decreases so much that you are not able to see it on the scope.
But still, don't be brave to test electricity theories because Charles Darwin already has a pretty decent one that totally relates to people that try things like that :D
I do agree for the most part. Except for the noise from the wires. It's true that they can pick it up, but the ratio of that probe seperator is high. The solid state relay simply doesn't shut off and the high impedance of the scope doesn't pull that signal down. So I definitely measure a high voltage there, not just noise.
Was wondering when we'd see a Duet on this channel. Welcome to the, uhm, not-so-dark side?
I really like it so far! I should have used it earlier xD
So... When you zapped yourself with the floating output... Do you know why it zapped you? As you've explained, your body should have pulled the voltage straight down, shouldn't it?
That's a good question and I'm still wondering what exactly happened. The only thing I can think of is that my hands were sweaty enough to pull the voltage low enough the first time
@@properprinting hm right that would make sense
@@ConstantijnC after that experience I pussied out to do it again in front of the camera🤣
@@properprinting I would have as well! 😅I once earthed myself to a halved waveform 120v... F that. Please never again :D Did the current just pass through your hand or through your chest? If it was through your chest, I would suggest getting your cardiovascular system checked out.. just in case
I would strongly encourage you to incorporate some extra interlocks around the heater block that are independent of the microcontroller. E.g. a thermal cut off switch on the mains supply to the heater and perhaps a “fan is rotating” sensor with a relay output to sit inline between the microcontroller and the SSR....
That's a great suggestion, thanks! Heaters like this should always have a back-up, the board is connected to the network too so you cannot be careful enough. We use this as a backup system to prevent overheating which I've good experiences with nl.rs-online.com/web/p/on-off-temperature-controllers/1241058/
@@properprinting use a thermal fuse
4 minute gang
Got a link to the heater you are using?
I got it from RS components nl.rs-online.com/web/p/air-heaters/3742319/
@4:45
Cool ich suche ein heizbett das lang und schmal ist z.b. 235 x 705. Ich brauche für meinen Ender 3 noch sowas. Aber in dem Bereich habe Ich kein passendes Kaufbares gefunden. Mein Ender 3 pro Sword Mod & Hack. Wäre interessant wen du was auch mal in der Richtung herausbringst.
The easiest way to accomplish that is to buy multiple smaller mats, but this doesn't come cheap! I've some neat ideas for the future about a printer like you mention :)
@@properprinting ja ich brauche den Drucker von den Abmessungen so um Windradflügel zu Drucken. Wegen den Linienausrichtung ist das so stabiler als im die Höhe.
You can still use PID with an SSR
Sorry, I hadn't watched the video until the end when I commented
Often my videos are a learning experience for me xD
@@properprinting I'm also learning...that I should wait before I comment.
BTW, it's even possible with something awfully slow like a relay, although at a much lower frequency: modern thermostats do that to heat a house.
Sorry friend, but I laughed a lot! : D
Haha laughing is good!
Please take care with those neon bulb 'electrician screwdrivers' I've heard horror stories about them.
Interesting, I've never had any issues with it and didn't heard those stories. Thanks for pointing out though!
Yeah, they suck. Get a Duspol from Aliexpress or whatever.
In bright light, you might not see it glow, or it might short out.
Those things are a stupid idea really since you are the neutral in that case.
4:46 geniaal, gaat ongeveer hetzelfde bij mij ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Haha ja hoort erbij xD Electroboom bijvoorbeeld heeft slechts met 110V te maken, wij hier krijgen echte klappen haha
@@properprinting jep, fantastish hier in europa!
220V rule! :)
Voor het gekloot met 230v, knoop het allemaal even aan een eigen groep met eigen aardlek.
Mocht je de boel er wel uit knallen, draait de rest van je huis wel gewoon en kunnen we de beelden zien. 😂
@@Deiphobuzz Hahaha die gedachte ging wel door me heen🤣 gelukkig werkt de camera en laptop op de accu, dus alleen de lichten zullen uitgaan voor extra dramatisch effect😂
It's never to much.
Why would u ever wanted to touch that wire ?!
God god gloeiende haha
Quick quick, someone call the TH-cam building standards police..........
At this point I'm not sure why you didn't just build yourself a CoreXY with the features you're adding. Buying an S5 then throwing out the bed heater, hotend and motherboard it's pretty pointless.
I'm assuming you bought the S5 thinking "I need a big fucking printer to print rims". Then "I need to make the enclosure smaller", then "I need all metal hotend capable of hotter temps" then "I'm needing to control ambient in the enclosure".
Maybe just use these lessons learnt to try and forward think a bit more on your next project to save yourself a bit of money and time.
I've thought forward on this one, but based on your assumptions I can imagine that it doesn't look like it xD My reasoning is to show the viewer what can be changed to an existing printer. A lot of viewers already have a Creality machine and I already got comments, including 3D printing Nerd, mentioning to do the moving portal mod too. You don't have to do exactly what I do, but you can pick the relevant things and get inspired. Using Creality printers is interesting for a wider audience than a printer from scratch made by a small TH-camr. I'm going to make my own printer, don't worry xD Hopefully this makes some sense
@@properprinting Yeah makes sense, bait people in by using printers they are. (It's by no means a criticism, it's a compliment to your strategy)
@@joebywan it's a win-win situation and I'd like to inspire as much people as possible and learn as much as possible :) I have some projects in mind for which no Creality printer is sufficient xD
Omfg guys stop using these phase testing screwdrivers, they are dangerous as f*ck!! Get a Multimeter or a duspol pls
Do you have a source which explains why these are so dangerous? I know that there's only a resistor between your finger and the live wire, but I'm wondering how many people actually got hurt from using these things
@@properprinting thats the thing, there is only a resistor. If u got dry skin or just a bad connection to earth, the light wont be on although the connection is live!